Being a total techno tit, can any body tell me how I access the Mego ad easter egg feature on my blu ray disc? I was waiting until easter to ask, obviously.On the topic of movie classics, I saw the Bakshi LOTR last week and Rosenmann's score for that is very, very Battle of the PotA--if anything,it might be a better score for Battle.
And every time I watch the Rise trailer I have a silly, content grin on my face.The last time I was THIS enthused about a trailer was for The Phantom Menace.Oh crap--hope that's not an omen! John, Scrolls.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> With people wondering about that new restoration of POTA and if it will see the light of blu-ray day, here's an article about how the studios are getting blu-ray shy with their classics. It includes a rumor that the May 10th digibook release of Schaffner's "Patton" will be a new remastering.
>
> http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2011/04/end_of_an_era.php
>

That's some truly astonishing art.Apes is in good hands with these people, no doubt. John, Scrolls.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Tim <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> I am totally impressed by this shot! Like I've said, if the apes have as much expression as Kong than I will be completely satisfied....let's just hope all other aspects of the film work. I was fooled by the exciting photos/art from Burton...
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

JohnM conquest-idor: "In 'Conquest', the apes suposedly mutated genetically or in some way because of the astronauts virus. It killed many animals and made apes smarter and changed them on a molecular level or something,HaHa. That's what I got out of Conquest as a 12 year old in 72."

The plague virus that killed dogs and cats is NOT alluded to in "Escape" or "Conquest" as having caused apes to become smarter. Rather, as Cornelius said in "Escape" and as depicted in "Conquest", apes were bred for greater intelligence.

The implied post-nuclear-holocaust radioactive fallout is indirectly implied as a causative factor in mutating the apes though.


JohnM conquest-idor: "Nobody who watched and listened closely thought that it was just because of a few beatings that apes got smarter and taller and had the POTA look. Anyway thats what I thought Paul Dehn was saying in his screenplay. What Zira and Cornelius said in 'Escape' is not as important because they are making asumptions based on ape history and some bones(Very few) he found. Cornelius was making a conclusion based on old artifacts and talk handed down from generation to generation."

It is clear from Cornelius' statements that Dr. Zaius & Company apparently concluded the best way to shut up Cornelius and Zira was to spill the beans to them about all they knew via the Secret Scrolls which gave a more truthful accounting of the apes' prehistory. In a sense, Zaius & Company shocked and awed Cornelius & Zira into silence because they realized afterwards that the immensity of the truth would be too traumatically impacting on their own culture. It would upend their entire religious institutions and the apes' entire worldview.

In essence, they made Zira & Cornelius willing though reluctant accomplices. Their predicament probably inspired them to finally consult Dr. Milo, because they knew if they could not hope to advance their culture forward in terms of reconciling itself with its actual history, then they had to look in the other direction: to the future. By Dr. Milo's salvaging of Taylor's spaceship, they evidently hoped to spur on progress and at the same time to spur questions, like: Where did such a ship come from in the first place?


JohnM conquest-idor: "That's bound to be somewhat wrong until more proof and such can be found like a good paleontologist or archeologist does with mankind. Even our scientific theories and facts were just recently discovered sort of speak if you take the whole 100,000 years modern man has been around."

Actually, our knowledge about modern humans (Homo Sapien Sapiens) has been updated over the past decade. Modern humans have been around since 200,000 years ago. They are believed to have reached behavorial modernity around 50,000 years ago.


JohnM conquest-idor: "That was one of the great points of the original POTA that science and religion tend to be at war with each other and if proof is found most theologians put their heads in the sand and rather believe their fairy tales cause it makes their small brains comfortable."

There is an irony behind much of what Cornelius said in the original "Planet of the Apes" in his introduction of his archeological cave when he referred to the paradox of the more ancient culture appearing appearing to be more advanced than any that came afterward. The irony is that the same goes for human prehistory as well: The more ancient cultures appear to have been much more advanced than those that came after them.

On the other hand, Cornelius said something in "Escape" that has apparently eluded the attention of many POTA fans and viewers. When he makes his first historical reference to Aldo, Cornelius refers to the historic day that Aldo first spoke "No!" as being a day commemorated by his (Cornelius') species.

Since Cornelius' species is Chimpanzee, Aldo should have turned out to have been a chimpanzee in the first place. Moreover, in the original "Planet of the Apes" novel by Pierre Boulle during the electronically-induced "seance" wherein we learn about how the Planet of the Apes came to be on the planet Soror, one of the ancestral voices of an ancient human identifies the first ape that speaks as being a Chimpanzee.


JohnM conquest-idor: "Anyway the Apes films were a mirror of us and resonable explanations were not always needed or possible."

Eric Payton: Wow....taking your last paragraph into consideration....you and I finally see eye-to-eye."

Even so, within the internal reality of the films' storyline, however, the reasonable explanations given were credible enough for us to suspend disbelief because it was such a compelling story that engaged viewers were willing to make such allowances as long as they believed and continued to believe in the characters and their motivations.

The five original POTA films' epic storyline delivered a redemptive ending that left the audience with the unsettling epiphany that they themselves through future words and deeds would write the next chapter, and hopefully, it wouldn't be the final chapter after all.

In essence, we find our own hopes, aspirations, foibles and fears reflected in the tear falling from Caesar's statue at the end of "Battle"

Jeff K.: "Looks like 'Ape' fever is starting early. The 'Rise of the POTA' trailer is being given some of the credit, so hopefully you Grumbling Garys will note that a successful 'Rise' raises all boats."

> http://geek-news.mtv.com/2011/04/25/planet-of-the-apes-1-sells-out/

By the same token, a mediocre and unsuccessful "Rise" will probably end up sinking the boat altogether, what with the 2001 "POTA" already already having lent its dead weight to drag down the prospects for another POTA series reboot.

Therefore, Jeff, by your having derisively invoked the term "Grumbling Garys" apparently to apply to those POTA fans who have read the "Rise" script, are you in essence suggesting by your own reading of the January 2010 "Rise of the POTA" script that you predict its prospects for both critical and box-office success to be virtually unsinkable?

.html<.html

.html   <.html

"This is light years ahead of what they achieved (with "Lord of the Rings" and "King Kong"). They've always said from the beginning that 2005 is the stone age compared to where we are now". - - - "Rise of the POTA" director Rupert Wyatt on WETA

In Oct. 1992 producer Harry Ufland got Roddy McDowell and Peter Jackson together to discuss continuing the POTA film series (continue, not redo). Roddy liked the young filmmaker and they took it to 20th Century Fox and pitched it. Things didn't work out thanks to executive musical chairs at Fox and Jackson went back to New Zealand to start work on "Heavenly Creatures", the film that would give birth to the FX company WETA. POTA moved in and out of focus in Jackson's viewfinder during the decade (the original is one of his favorite movies) until Roddy's death in 1998 killed his enthusiasm for the project.
Roddy died a little over two months after New Line agreed to roll the dice big time on Jackson's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy. The films, among other things, started Jackson's professional relationships with actor Andy Serkis and director of photography Andrew Lesnie, and put WETA at the top of the FX game. A decade later those 3 creative elements would reunite for "Rise of the POTA", without Jackson's direction but perhaps with a spiritual kinship for what Jackson and Roddy started almost 2 decades earlier.
In early 2010 the decision was made to make "Rise" - - fast. Producer Dylan Clark says the summer 2011 release date "forced us all from the studio to producer to director to actors to say, "OK, this is what we're signing up to do. No room for changing... we found the right director who could tell the story in the way we wanted to, very seriously but find the pop moments... the time frame constricted us. We had to just make decisions".
Obviously a director's strong vision is an important element in whether a movie will be good. Rupert Wyatt used "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind" as his model of what the film "should be". He says, "To me, that's a fantastic story in terms of it's canvas, but at it's heart, it's very much a human drama". The "Close Encounters" example also extended to the casting: "We've always referenced "Close Encounters"... and if you look at the actors in a film like that, they're fundamentally character actors playing leading roles... I think that was always our approach" (Here's a "Close Encounters" trailer with narration by Percy "Aboro" Rodrigues: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoZGi0DkNlU ).
Dylan Clark agrees about casting the unexpected: "James Franco isn't the kind of guy you typically see in these movies. Frieda Pinto isn't the type of female in these movies". James Franco has received a lot of attention lately but he was under the radar when he was cast in the film. Clark says they chose him because of his range (for example, from "Pineapple Express" to "Milk") and because he seemed to be an actor that was about to hit big.
Shooting was scheduled for Summer 2010 in Vancouver. Thanks to a Sears warehouse next to the studio, they were able to build nice full sets, including the Gen Sys facility, the Ape Sanctuary (with a nice big tree in the center, seen in the trailer when Buck the gorilla breaks out) and the Rodman home, which included a kitchen for just one shot (Rupert Wyatt says his model for shooting his sets was the news room in "All the President's Men"). According to John Lithgow shooting began on July 5th. July and the first half of August were used to film most of the principle actors (the First Act with the Rodman family and Gen Sys labs) plus the big set piece on the Golden Gate Bridge:
http://coronacomingattractions.com/news/exclusive-rise-apes-set-photos
Days 34 and 35 in mid- August were press days, when "set reports" were done. At that point there was about a week left with the main human actors, then began about 3 weeks of ape-centric work, including the Second Act at the huge Ape Sanctuary set and filming second unit on location in San Francisco:
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/mediageek/news/?a=22059
Leading the charge to get the apes right were Andy Serkis and Terry Notary. Both had experience with ape movement in big movies before. Serkis had given the performance as King Kong for Peter Jackson much as he would Caesar and other apes for this. Notary had been the movement coach on Tim Burton's POTA. Yet neither felt they were experts and started researching and working on it from scratch. Indeed, Serkis says each ape is an individual and it would be no different than assuming if you played one human, you played them all: "I think everyone assumed that because I played a 25-foot gorilla it would just be a breeze... King Lear or Hamlet, they're entirely different... you're not doing gorilla movements, you're not doing ape movements, you're looking for a personality". He says the script helped drive that home: "It's a really highly intelligent script and treats all of the ape characters with as much reverence as human characters... the apes are individuals... the more human they become, the less innocent they are. And it's sad but you're rooting for them at the same time. But they are losing this innocence by becoming more human... that's certainly why I responded to the script... a fantastic modern allegory about Man's abuse of nature. It's written with such a lot of love, the script, and I think that's the point". Having studied the originals for the "Apes" mythology, including "Behind the POTA" ("an incredible documentary"), Serkis adds, "(The writers) obviously love the franchise, they love the material... there are so many things which pay off from the original".
Director Wyatt gives an example of character development for the apes: "For example, two old men who comment on everything, there's the chimp equivalent of that, or the chimps that join in the fight when Rocket takes on Caesar. So there's a real arc, not just our leads but our supporting (ape) characters, and they will pay off... there's many layers to what we're trying to achieve, the idea being that everything is real world".
James Franco came to it more of a fan of Peter Jackson's films and those who worked on them than of "Apes": "I didn't know Andy was doing it, but to work with all the WETA people, Andrew Lesnie (the D.P.)... I have watched every single minute of the extra features on all of the "Lord of the Rings" and "King Kong" DVDs". Franco was able to manage pretty well with the way things were done: "You think it's the death of acting, but you know there are plenty of stage plays where you talk to no one or you're using your imagination in a similar way and you have to create an imaginary world in front of you... Andy was so good with the chimp behavior that it was actually pretty easy to fall into that kind of relationship... I loved the movie "Koko the Gorilla", directed by Barbet Schroeder, and that was actually shot in my hometown of Palo Alto. So I remember, I guess, something of the way that woman (Penny Patterson) dealt with her gorilla kind of came back to me, so I kind of started dealing with (Caesar) in that way".
Terry Notary gives a little tip on portraying apes: "If you look at apes they are relatively still most of the time. There's a real groundedness to them... And when you capture that essence of just being still and present and aware and hypersensitive... and then explode all of a sudden. That's what I think is the biggest challenge... (to) not overact... we put (ape) videos up in the monitors in the Volume (the performance capture stage) where we work and just try to emulate and just go home and watch videos at night and you see the little nuances and the little subtleties... I think that's what's really going to make a difference in this film... the authenticity of the movement".
The "Rise" wrap party was on 9/17/10. But of course some of the most important work was just beginning.

.html

-----Original message-----

From: shrstrategygames <shrstrategygames@...>
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Apr 27, 2011 12:56:54 GMT+00:00
Subject: [pota] Re: BOOM POTA comic #1 sells out

 

Jeff K.: "Looks like 'Ape' fever is starting early. The 'Rise of the POTA' trailer is being given some of the credit, so hopefully you Grumbling Garys will note that a successful 'Rise' raises all boats."

> http://geek-news.mtv.com/2011/04/25/planet-of-the-apes-1-sells-out/

By the same token, a mediocre and unsuccessful "Rise" will probably end up sinking the boat altogether, what with the 2001 "POTA" already already having lent its dead weight to drag down the prospects for another POTA series reboot.

Therefore, Jeff, by your having derisively invoked the term "Grumbling Garys" apparently to apply to those POTA fans who have read the "Rise" script, are you in essence suggesting by your own reading of the January 2010 "Rise of the POTA" script that you predict its prospects for both critical and box-office success to be virtually unsinkable?

<.html

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Reminder from:		pota Yahoo! Group
Title:		PLANET OF THE APES
Date:		Thursday April 28, 2011
Time:		12:00 am - 2:00 am
Location:		OUTERMAX
Notes:		Crashing into the future, stranded astronauts must fight for survival on a planet ruled by apes! This 1968 sci-fi classic was first in the wildly popular "ape" series.
Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options

Copyright © 2011  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | <.html

lol, Trump for president.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Planet of the Apes was the Chambers look,and is as important if not more than the story for me.
>
> This guy is becoming the Donald Trump of POTA fans.
>

Just picked up issue 1 ...three variant covers....gonna sot down and read it...
Girl at the comic store said she'd already sold a few issues today

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

*** What lines/scenes/actions in ESCAPE and/or CONQUEST indirectly imply
this? I don't recall Cornelius saying anything that's even close to this, and
in CONQUEST, the apes are already "mutated" and that was before the alleged
nuclear war that came after the initial Caesar led revolt... ***



In a message dated 4/27/2011 7:56:47 AM Central Daylight Time,
shrstrategygames@... writes:

> The implied post-nuclear-holocaust radioactive fallout is indirectly
> implied as a causative factor in mutating the apes though.

</HTML>

*** Yeah, their "look" plays a part in it all, but you really find their
appearance almost as important as the story? I don't get that...

I'm not saying you fall into this grouping, but there are too many times
where it seems like people are more into "cute apes" than the rest of it
all... With that outlook on it, they might as well just buy a few stills or a few
of the figures and just sit back and gaze at those... ***

> Planet of the Apes was the Chambers look,and is as important if not more
> than the story for me.

</HTML>

Attachments :

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PlanetOfTheApes_B1ST_c-63304.jpg
PlanetOfTheApes_B1ST.jpg
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710_11_large.jpg

Fox has released separately the featurette that was shown during the chat. Cool stuff filming on the bridge. The horses are a nice touch, kind of a foreshadowing of the POTA as we know it.

http://www.heyuguys.co.uk/2011/04/27/exploring-the-rise-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-featurette/

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You see Jeff thats why I always made noise, if only to get it off my chest, that the Apes and other films I like have to be improved for exactly those reasons in the article. I hate to have people younger than us and who care not have the best available Blu-rays for posterity. But the cost sited by studios are alot of crap in my view. They make 100,000,000 million dollar profits on films constanly and deals and such can be made with restoration houses. Its just they want gaurenteed profit from retoration and dont give a damn about our film past. Part of the reason is not their fault totally is the technology and small iphones, ipads, etc. and most people under 45 dont care about our american artform- film , though Russian and German filmakers were their at the begining.
The artical says it better than me right now I got a bad virus but it is a good essay to read and a warning to film lovers all over. Take care again, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> With people wondering about that new restoration of POTA and if it will see the light of blu-ray day, here's an article about how the studios are getting blu-ray shy with their classics. It includes a rumor that the May 10th digibook release of Schaffner's "Patton" will be a new remastering.
>
> http://hollywood-elsewhere.com/2011/04/end_of_an_era.php
>

WOW, if I knew my post would get disected like you did I would of posted it better. Your saying almost exactly what I assumed back when I was younger and its probably more corrsct than what I said now. Ill post a better rebutal when im fealing better. Very good though. By the way the Aldo part was always a point of contention with the apes films. Could it be just how history is mumbled over the years, maybe. I always said that the ape getting beatin up at the 15 minute point in Conquest is Aldo a chimp. Listen to the guards saying Aldo no, no aldo no. But fans always just say your hearing things. I feel Aldo was changed to a gorilla in Battle simply for the coolness of a tough gorilla. Take care ill write better, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shrstrategygames" <shrstrategygames@...> wrote:
>
> JohnM conquest-idor: "In 'Conquest', the apes suposedly mutated genetically or in some way because of the astronauts virus. It killed many animals and made apes smarter and changed them on a molecular level or something,HaHa. That's what I got out of Conquest as a 12 year old in 72."
>
> The plague virus that killed dogs and cats is NOT alluded to in "Escape" or "Conquest" as having caused apes to become smarter. Rather, as Cornelius said in "Escape" and as depicted in "Conquest", apes were bred for greater intelligence.
>
> The implied post-nuclear-holocaust radioactive fallout is indirectly implied as a causative factor in mutating the apes though.
>
>
> JohnM conquest-idor: "Nobody who watched and listened closely thought that it was just because of a few beatings that apes got smarter and taller and had the POTA look. Anyway thats what I thought Paul Dehn was saying in his screenplay. What Zira and Cornelius said in 'Escape' is not as important because they are making asumptions based on ape history and some bones(Very few) he found. Cornelius was making a conclusion based on old artifacts and talk handed down from generation to generation."
>
> It is clear from Cornelius' statements that Dr. Zaius & Company apparently concluded the best way to shut up Cornelius and Zira was to spill the beans to them about all they knew via the Secret Scrolls which gave a more truthful accounting of the apes' prehistory. In a sense, Zaius & Company shocked and awed Cornelius & Zira into silence because they realized afterwards that the immensity of the truth would be too traumatically impacting on their own culture. It would upend their entire religious institutions and the apes' entire worldview.
>
> In essence, they made Zira & Cornelius willing though reluctant accomplices. Their predicament probably inspired them to finally consult Dr. Milo, because they knew if they could not hope to advance their culture forward in terms of reconciling itself with its actual history, then they had to look in the other direction: to the future. By Dr. Milo's salvaging of Taylor's spaceship, they evidently hoped to spur on progress and at the same time to spur questions, like: Where did such a ship come from in the first place?
>
>
> JohnM conquest-idor: "That's bound to be somewhat wrong until more proof and such can be found like a good paleontologist or archeologist does with mankind. Even our scientific theories and facts were just recently discovered sort of speak if you take the whole 100,000 years modern man has been around."
>
> Actually, our knowledge about modern humans (Homo Sapien Sapiens) has been updated over the past decade. Modern humans have been around since 200,000 years ago. They are believed to have reached behavorial modernity around 50,000 years ago.
>
>
> JohnM conquest-idor: "That was one of the great points of the original POTA that science and religion tend to be at war with each other and if proof is found most theologians put their heads in the sand and rather believe their fairy tales cause it makes their small brains comfortable."
>
> There is an irony behind much of what Cornelius said in the original "Planet of the Apes" in his introduction of his archeological cave when he referred to the paradox of the more ancient culture appearing appearing to be more advanced than any that came afterward. The irony is that the same goes for human prehistory as well: The more ancient cultures appear to have been much more advanced than those that came after them.
>
> On the other hand, Cornelius said something in "Escape" that has apparently eluded the attention of many POTA fans and viewers. When he makes his first historical reference to Aldo, Cornelius refers to the historic day that Aldo first spoke "No!" as being a day commemorated by his (Cornelius') species.
>
> Since Cornelius' species is Chimpanzee, Aldo should have turned out to have been a chimpanzee in the first place. Moreover, in the original "Planet of the Apes" novel by Pierre Boulle during the electronically-induced "seance" wherein we learn about how the Planet of the Apes came to be on the planet Soror, one of the ancestral voices of an ancient human identifies the first ape that speaks as being a Chimpanzee.
>
>
> JohnM conquest-idor: "Anyway the Apes films were a mirror of us and resonable explanations were not always needed or possible."
>
> Eric Payton: Wow....taking your last paragraph into consideration....you and I finally see eye-to-eye."
>
> Even so, within the internal reality of the films' storyline, however, the reasonable explanations given were credible enough for us to suspend disbelief because it was such a compelling story that engaged viewers were willing to make such allowances as long as they believed and continued to believe in the characters and their motivations.
>
> The five original POTA films' epic storyline delivered a redemptive ending that left the audience with the unsettling epiphany that they themselves through future words and deeds would write the next chapter, and hopefully, it wouldn't be the final chapter after all.
>
> In essence, we find our own hopes, aspirations, foibles and fears reflected in the tear falling from Caesar's statue at the end of "Battle"
>

Attachments :

Robinson_Test.jpg
Robinson_Test-63310.jpg

Great Post my friend, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> "This is light years ahead of what they achieved (with "Lord of the Rings" and "King Kong"). They've always said from the beginning that 2005 is the stone age compared to where we are now". - - - "Rise of the POTA" director Rupert Wyatt on WETA
>
> In Oct. 1992 producer Harry Ufland got Roddy McDowell and Peter Jackson together to discuss continuing the POTA film series (continue, not redo). Roddy liked the young filmmaker and they took it to 20th Century Fox and pitched it. Things didn't work out thanks to executive musical chairs at Fox and Jackson went back to New Zealand to start work on "Heavenly Creatures", the film that would give birth to the FX company WETA. POTA moved in and out of focus in Jackson's viewfinder during the decade (the original is one of his favorite movies) until Roddy's death in 1998 killed his enthusiasm for the project.
> Roddy died a little over two months after New Line agreed to roll the dice big time on Jackson's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy. The films, among other things, started Jackson's professional relationships with actor Andy Serkis and director of photography Andrew Lesnie, and put WETA at the top of the FX game. A decade later those 3 creative elements would reunite for "Rise of the POTA", without Jackson's direction but perhaps with a spiritual kinship for what Jackson and Roddy started almost 2 decades earlier.
> In early 2010 the decision was made to make "Rise" - - fast. Producer Dylan Clark says the summer 2011 release date "forced us all from the studio to producer to director to actors to say, "OK, this is what we're signing up to do. No room for changing... we found the right director who could tell the story in the way we wanted to, very seriously but find the pop moments... the time frame constricted us. We had to just make decisions".
> Obviously a director's strong vision is an important element in whether a movie will be good. Rupert Wyatt used "Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind" as his model of what the film "should be". He says, "To me, that's a fantastic story in terms of it's canvas, but at it's heart, it's very much a human drama". The "Close Encounters" example also extended to the casting: "We've always referenced "Close Encounters"... and if you look at the actors in a film like that, they're fundamentally character actors playing leading roles... I think that was always our approach" (Here's a "Close Encounters" trailer with narration by Percy "Aboro" Rodrigues: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoZGi0DkNlU ).
> Dylan Clark agrees about casting the unexpected: "James Franco isn't the kind of guy you typically see in these movies. Frieda Pinto isn't the type of female in these movies". James Franco has received a lot of attention lately but he was under the radar when he was cast in the film. Clark says they chose him because of his range (for example, from "Pineapple Express" to "Milk") and because he seemed to be an actor that was about to hit big.
> Shooting was scheduled for Summer 2010 in Vancouver. Thanks to a Sears warehouse next to the studio, they were able to build nice full sets, including the Gen Sys facility, the Ape Sanctuary (with a nice big tree in the center, seen in the trailer when Buck the gorilla breaks out) and the Rodman home, which included a kitchen for just one shot (Rupert Wyatt says his model for shooting his sets was the news room in "All the President's Men"). According to John Lithgow shooting began on July 5th. July and the first half of August were used to film most of the principle actors (the First Act with the Rodman family and Gen Sys labs) plus the big set piece on the Golden Gate Bridge:
> http://coronacomingattractions.com/news/exclusive-rise-apes-set-photos
> Days 34 and 35 in mid- August were press days, when "set reports" were done. At that point there was about a week left with the main human actors, then began about 3 weeks of ape-centric work, including the Second Act at the huge Ape Sanctuary set and filming second unit on location in San Francisco:
> http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/mediageek/news/?a=22059
> Leading the charge to get the apes right were Andy Serkis and Terry Notary. Both had experience with ape movement in big movies before. Serkis had given the performance as King Kong for Peter Jackson much as he would Caesar and other apes for this. Notary had been the movement coach on Tim Burton's POTA. Yet neither felt they were experts and started researching and working on it from scratch. Indeed, Serkis says each ape is an individual and it would be no different than assuming if you played one human, you played them all: "I think everyone assumed that because I played a 25-foot gorilla it would just be a breeze... King Lear or Hamlet, they're entirely different... you're not doing gorilla movements, you're not doing ape movements, you're looking for a personality". He says the script helped drive that home: "It's a really highly intelligent script and treats all of the ape characters with as much reverence as human characters... the apes are individuals... the more human they become, the less innocent they are. And it's sad but you're rooting for them at the same time. But they are losing this innocence by becoming more human... that's certainly why I responded to the script... a fantastic modern allegory about Man's abuse of nature. It's written with such a lot of love, the script, and I think that's the point". Having studied the originals for the "Apes" mythology, including "Behind the POTA" ("an incredible documentary"), Serkis adds, "(The writers) obviously love the franchise, they love the material... there are so many things which pay off from the original".
> Director Wyatt gives an example of character development for the apes: "For example, two old men who comment on everything, there's the chimp equivalent of that, or the chimps that join in the fight when Rocket takes on Caesar. So there's a real arc, not just our leads but our supporting (ape) characters, and they will pay off... there's many layers to what we're trying to achieve, the idea being that everything is real world".
> James Franco came to it more of a fan of Peter Jackson's films and those who worked on them than of "Apes": "I didn't know Andy was doing it, but to work with all the WETA people, Andrew Lesnie (the D.P.)... I have watched every single minute of the extra features on all of the "Lord of the Rings" and "King Kong" DVDs". Franco was able to manage pretty well with the way things were done: "You think it's the death of acting, but you know there are plenty of stage plays where you talk to no one or you're using your imagination in a similar way and you have to create an imaginary world in front of you... Andy was so good with the chimp behavior that it was actually pretty easy to fall into that kind of relationship... I loved the movie "Koko the Gorilla", directed by Barbet Schroeder, and that was actually shot in my hometown of Palo Alto. So I remember, I guess, something of the way that woman (Penny Patterson) dealt with her gorilla kind of came back to me, so I kind of started dealing with (Caesar) in that way".
> Terry Notary gives a little tip on portraying apes: "If you look at apes they are relatively still most of the time. There's a real groundedness to them... And when you capture that essence of just being still and present and aware and hypersensitive... and then explode all of a sudden. That's what I think is the biggest challenge... (to) not overact... we put (ape) videos up in the monitors in the Volume (the performance capture stage) where we work and just try to emulate and just go home and watch videos at night and you see the little nuances and the little subtleties... I think that's what's really going to make a difference in this film... the authenticity of the movement".
> The "Rise" wrap party was on 9/17/10. But of course some of the most important work was just beginning.
>

When I first saw the trailer the first thing I thought of was how cool the horses look going against the traffic and with apes going ape. Everything sounds so good im afraid of jinxing it. I liked the Escapest very much and I like Wyatts past with some of the background with the Danny Bolye 28 Days crowd. These englishman seem to understand the apes mythos better than the american writers and directors. It possible that the original apes films have a larger english input weather behind or in front of the camera, so thyat could be part of the reason. Any way I got to get some rest take care again, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Fox has released separately the featurette that was shown during the chat. Cool stuff filming on the bridge. The horses are a nice touch, kind of a foreshadowing of the POTA as we know it.
>
> http://www.heyuguys.co.uk/2011/04/27/exploring-the-rise-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-featurette/
>

James King: "By the same token, a mediocre and unsuccessful 'Rise' will probably end up sinking the boat altogether, what with the 2001 'POTA' already already having lent its dead weight to drag down the prospects for another POTA series reboot. Therefore, Jeff, by your having derisively invoked the term 'Grumbling Garys' apparently to apply to those POTA fans who have read the 'Rise' script, are you in essence suggesting by your own reading of the January 2010 'Rise of the POTA' script that you predict its prospects for both critical and box-office success to be virtually unsinkable?"

Haristas (doing his best frustrated Dr. Hasslein imitation): "NEGATIVE! NEGATIVE! NEGATIVE!"

More like "Skeptical! Skeptical! Skeptical!"


James King: "I'll now evoke the spirit of Oddball here and say, 'Have a little faith, baby... Have a little faith. It's going to be a mother-beautiful movie, and it will be a hit. Positive waves, man. Positive waves'."

Was that Oddball's mantra for the 2001 reboot of "Planet of the Apes"?

Having been badly burned by the pre-release hype for the 1976 version of "King Kong" (another ape entirely), I learned to have a much healthier skepticism than most about pre-release movie hype and publicity. In the present case, it's clear that many, if not most, of those who have read the January 2010 "Rise of the POTA" script are apparently much too dauntedly dismayed by its content to want to respond to my non-spoiler poll questions that address quality-of-story and -characterization matters of the script because they'd regrettably have to deliver some bad news.

So, in the glaring absence of responses to my poll questions about the "Rise" script, I have since lowered my expectations even moreso.

Clearly, if you yourself had had something positive to report opinionwise about it based on your own reading of the "Rise of the POTA" script, you would have been forthcoming and considered responding to my non-spoiler poll questions. Since you have not, you have by that omission of effort inadvertently contributed to deepening my doubts about the quality of the project.

Sadly, yours and/or Oddball's "positive waves" notion is not an effective deterrent against mediocre or bad movie scripts.

> "Planet of the Apes" was the Chambers look, and is
> as important if not more than the story for me.

> Yeah, their "look" plays a part in it all, but you
> really find their appearance almost as important as
> the story? I don't get that...

MLccougar: "I'm not saying you fall into this grouping, but there are too many times where it seems like people are more into 'cute apes' than the rest of it all... With that outlook on it, they might as well just buy a few stills or a few of the figures and just sit back and gaze at those..."

I think that in the case of a semi-evolved Caesar what most POTA fans would be looking for is for the CGI depicting him to be able to convincingly emote and convey a compelling characterization. While I'm convinced that actor Andy Serkis can carry off such a characterization, I'm don't know whether the script was written to take full advantage of Serkis' acting abilites much less written to give Caesar a full-fledged character.

And that was one of the very questions I posed in my non-spoiler poll about the "Rise of the POTA" script that nobody's deigned to venture to respond to thus far.

James King: "The implied post-nuclear-holocaust radioactive fallout is indirectly implied as a causative factor in mutating the apes though."

MLccougar: "What lines/scenes/actions in ESCAPE and/or CONQUEST indirectly imply this? I don't recall Cornelius saying anything that's even close to this, and in CONQUEST, the apes are already 'mutated' and that was before the alleged nuclear war that came after the initial Caesar led revolt..."

If the apes were already mutated in CONQUEST, they'd most, if not all, have been talking OR Caesar would have been teaching them to talk. They were not depicted as such.

As Cornelius said in ESCAPE, he knew from the Secret Scrolls (that he'd belatedly been made privy to) that apes had been *bred for intelligence*, which implies selective DNA upgrades as well.

Only after the nuclear holocaust that came between CONQUEST and BATTLE do we see more primitive apes talking.

You also will not find any source for your assumption in Jerry Pournelle's novelization of CONQUEST. The plague that killed dogs and cats was never alluded to or implied to have had any causative effect in mutating apes.

.html

 

It's a good thing some of us disagree about the look of the apes.  They aren't too evolved, but they aren't supposed to be.  On the other side of it, it makes them harder to related to.  But then they didn't look the same after the first film. And they looked even less so after the second film so not to mention the second film and leaves more room for any films that follow.

 

In a message dated 4/25/2011 1:06:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, theskulpter@... writes:

Glad some of you are happy with the look of the Apes for the new film.I personally think the look SUCKS! Sure the Caesar Ape looks realistic ,and looks like a regular boring Ape that we see in every Ape style film or at the zoo.

<.html

.html<.html

I always thought that Armandos talk with Caesar at Century city was to fill in what we are debating. Astronauts bring virus, kill domesticated pets(Parvo), man without pets , virus affected apes on a genetic level and furthur selective breeding made apes on par with the smartest animals left on earth. Then we fill in the blanks that the big nucleor war made apes even more mutated (smarter,long shot) and some humans went back their cities and in turn got mutated Battle-Beneath, and some humans stayed on ground but eventually got dumber nd dumber by a number of reasons we can only guess at. But to me it was explained even though it was done fast and mostly to help newer ape fans understand what they are watching if Conquest was their first apes film viewing time. Movies always do this to a better or worse effect. They really shouldnt fans like all the technicle reasons for what they are seeing on the big screen. John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shrstrategygames" <shrstrategygames@...> wrote:
>
> James King: "The implied post-nuclear-holocaust radioactive fallout is indirectly implied as a causative factor in mutating the apes though."
>
> MLccougar: "What lines/scenes/actions in ESCAPE and/or CONQUEST indirectly imply this? I don't recall Cornelius saying anything that's even close to this, and in CONQUEST, the apes are already 'mutated' and that was before the alleged nuclear war that came after the initial Caesar led revolt..."
>
> If the apes were already mutated in CONQUEST, they'd most, if not all, have been talking OR Caesar would have been teaching them to talk. They were not depicted as such.
>
> As Cornelius said in ESCAPE, he knew from the Secret Scrolls (that he'd belatedly been made privy to) that apes had been *bred for intelligence*, which implies selective DNA upgrades as well.
>
> Only after the nuclear holocaust that came between CONQUEST and BATTLE do we see more primitive apes talking.
>
> You also will not find any source for your assumption in Jerry Pournelle's novelization of CONQUEST. The plague that killed dogs and cats was never alluded to or implied to have had any causative effect in mutating apes.
>

Yes I find the original Appearance as important than the story.There are Apes fans that will get it,and some as yourself that will not.No biggie.
Just as I do not see the originals as you call it "cute apes" at all.And we will never have a Planet of the Apes character as cool looking as General Ursus,or Cornelius.
I would love for a new Apes film to have that same original look with a new story or continuation instead of the shitty revamps.But some people liked the Burton remake Baker Makeup, I hated that too.
And as far as the people that are into the Cute Apes, so be it.Whatever makes you happy is cool with me,but we all have our preferences.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:
>
> *** Yeah, their "look" plays a part in it all, but you really find their
> appearance almost as important as the story? I don't get that...
>
> I'm not saying you fall into this grouping, but there are too many times
> where it seems like people are more into "cute apes" than the rest of it
> all... With that outlook on it, they might as well just buy a few stills or a few
> of the figures and just sit back and gaze at those... ***
>
> > Planet of the Apes was the Chambers look,and is as important if not more
> > than the story for me.
>
> </HTML>
>

Two negative mentions of "40 years old" in this post. This is an absurd criticism. You could view the original film and make-up 100 years from now and they'd still look brilliant. Class endures. Criticising something on the basis of age is George Lucas-thinking, and we all know how his Star Wars prequels turned out(CGI overkill, most of which looked fake).

40 years from now, you'll no doubt being saying that the Rise CGI looks totally primitive and phony. (Gorilla jumping at helicopter anyone? That looks completely phony to me already).

CGI technology dates far quicker than Chambers pristine make-ups ever will. That look is timeless. When people criticise it on account of its age, they're knocking a masterpiece. What next, the Mona Lisa? That thing's got cracks in it, get it out of my sight! Citizen Kane? Terrible special effects, let's re-make it. The Godfather- Brando's make-up sucks, let's re-do his scenes in CGI and make his voice clearer while we're at it.

I will watch the new film and I will enjoy it, I'm sure. But the CGI will distract me because I'll know it was created with a computer. If I wanted an Apes cartoon I'd have rented the old tv series.


Grumpy McGrumpison

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Most people seem to like that script (few have commented on it here, but they comment on it at imdb). I've called it mediocre but it sounds like it's been rewritten. The basic story is the same, but improved character development (helped when actors come in) and dialogue. John Lithgow said on Twitter they were getting great new pages as they were shooting. Basically it's the director's vision. The actors keep saying the director is great and he wasn't on board when that script was written, so I won't use that script to judge the movie.
> "Grumbling Garys" refers to those who have already written it off because it's CG, or it doesn't look like and continue 40 year old movies. To me, "successful" means a good science fiction story that will highlight the POTA concepts that we've all loved when POTA is at it's best. One that will reinvigorate POTA and get people excited about it again (especially those who can't get past the 40 year old makeups, such as the film's star James Franco). I think POTA has a lot to say that's still valid and unique to it, unlike robots or aliens taking over the world. POTA2001 was "successful" too at the box office. I want this to go beyond that and I have hope given what's been said about it. I don't think it's all just hype. John Lithgow and David Hewlett have no reason to hype a movie like that when they're barely in.
>
>

In the current economic climate, with comics sales reported to be up to 20% down, to sell out is still a great result, in my opinion.It shows that people love Apes and (gasp!) Apes in comics.Can't wait to read mine.John, Scrolls.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Rob Morganbesser" <mhorg2018@...> wrote:
>
> I wouldn't get excited about one issue selling out. When issue 2 sells out,
> get excited them. The list of one issue sell outs that then become burnouts
> is enormous.
>

My UK blu ray has listed under the POTA contents 'Easter Egg:Mego Toy Commercial'. John, Scrolls.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Being a total techno tit, can any body tell me how I access the Mego ad easter egg feature on my blu ray disc? I was waiting until easter to ask, obviously.On the topic of movie classics, I saw the Bakshi LOTR last week and Rosenmann's score for that is very, very Battle of the PotA--if anything,it might be a better score for Battle.
> And every time I watch the Rise trailer I have a silly, content grin on my face.The last time I was THIS enthused about a trailer was for The Phantom Menace.Oh crap--hope that's not an omen! John, Scrolls.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Is there a Mego ad Easter egg on the Blu-ray? I don't think there is.
>
> Oh, and if you've heard one Leonard Rosenman score, you've pretty much heard them all. (Not a big Rosenman fan)
>
> -- Rory
>

Many thanks fothis link--much appreciated.I was worried Fox had got the publicity wrong.I'm beginning to think they've played a stormer with the look and timing! John, Scrolls.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Fox has released separately the featurette that was shown during the chat. Cool stuff filming on the bridge. The horses are a nice touch, kind of a foreshadowing of the POTA as we know it.
>
> http://www.heyuguys.co.uk/2011/04/27/exploring-the-rise-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-featurette/
>

We as POTA fans have gotten used to long stretches during which we've had to carry the franchise ourselves since Fox has done nothing at all to keep it afloat. But this is a good time to be a fan, and I'm psyched. Everything I've seen from Rise gives me hope that it'll be a good film, and I'm very happily about to sit down and read the first issue of BOOM!'s new comic. Has anyone heard anything about licensed tie-ins to the new film, in terms of comics and novels? What excites me is that if this film does well, we could suddenly see a whole new era of POTA licensed fiction. It's good to be a fan...

I wont spend to much on this but when I was in college I wrote a thesis paper for my media writing course and it was on Apes. This was 1978 and I gathered information from some English magizine and it was implied by the writer that a nucleor war could of further mutated the Apes because of what the nukes had done with humans who stayed in N.Y.
I guess people like me who disscussed the Apes extensivly over the years have hit this little bump in the road on explaining how the apes super evolved and nucleor war was on everyones mind so blaming every mutation on the A-Bomb was a common excuse(remember the 1950s big bug sci-fi). Remember Conquest ended and no one spoke, then 17 years later Battle started and all the apes speak.(The ending in Conquest shown to us back in 72 knew that it was manipulated so we ended Conquest with the original ending thats on the bluray now except for "The End" title card thats still missing and the original screenplay and the Pournelle novelization. Us ape guys back then really found out alot when we were young)So in a way it was a slight implied reason and we went with it. Not the best answer but the truth, in my case.Take care, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "JohnM conquest-idor" <johnmermigas@...> wrote:
>
> I always thought that Armandos talk with Caesar at Century city was to fill in what we are debating. Astronauts bring virus, kill domesticated pets(Parvo), man without pets , virus affected apes on a genetic level and furthur selective breeding made apes on par with the smartest animals left on earth. Then we fill in the blanks that the big nucleor war made apes even more mutated (smarter,long shot) and some humans went back their cities and in turn got mutated Battle-Beneath, and some humans stayed on ground but eventually got dumber nd dumber by a number of reasons we can only guess at. But to me it was explained even though it was done fast and mostly to help newer ape fans understand what they are watching if Conquest was their first apes film viewing time. Movies always do this to a better or worse effect. They really shouldnt fans like all the technicle reasons for what they are seeing on the big screen. John M.
>

Enough with that ancient script. If you want to assume the worst for three months, be my guest.


From: shrstrategygames
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 9:44 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: new "Rise of the POTA" poster?

> "Planet of the Apes" was the Chambers look, and is
> as important if not more than the story for me.

> Yeah, their "look" plays a part in it all, but you
> really find their appearance almost as important as
> the story? I don't get that...

MLccougar: "I'm not saying you fall into this grouping, but there are too many times where it seems like people are more into 'cute apes' than the rest of it all... With that outlook on it, they might as well just buy a few stills or a few of the figures and just sit back and gaze at those..."

I think that in the case of a semi-evolved Caesar what most POTA fans would be looking for is for the CGI depicting him to be able to convincingly emote and convey a compelling characterization. While I'm convinced that actor Andy Serkis can carry off such a characterization, I'm don't know whether the script was written to take full advantage of Serkis' acting abilites much less written to give Caesar a full-fledged character.

And that was one of the very questions I posed in my non-spoiler poll about the "Rise of the POTA" script that nobody's deigned to venture to respond to thus far.

So they can sell it 3 times. OH! Now I see how it works!


From: Haristas@...
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 10:13 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: OT: state of the blu-ray art




The Digital Bits is now saying that they've talked to Fox and the Blu-ray Book edition of PATTON coming out on May 10th WILL NOT be a remastering. Fox says it is working on a remastering of PATTON and hope to have it out later this year. So, why repackage the old Blu-ray now? I don't get that, so I guess I'm going to cancel my pre-order for this... and just wait.

-- Rory

It's definitely Aldo getting beat up. I thought it was history being changed (alternate timeline) but knowing Dehn he probably just forgot what he said in "Escape". Aldo sounded like he was going to say something, then he gets sedated.


From: JohnM conquest-idor
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 8:44 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: new "Rise of the POTA" poster?



WOW, if I knew my post would get disected like you did I would of posted it better. Your saying almost exactly what I assumed back when I was younger and its probably more corrsct than what I said now. Ill post a better rebutal when im fealing better. Very good though. By the way the Aldo part was always a point of contention with the apes films. Could it be just how history is mumbled over the years, maybe. I always said that the ape getting beatin up at the 15 minute point in Conquest is Aldo a chimp. Listen to the guards saying Aldo no, no aldo no. But fans always just say your hearing things. I feel Aldo was changed to a gorilla in Battle simply for the coolness of a tough gorilla. Take care ill write better, John M.

.html<.html

> "Planet of the Apes" was the Chambers look, and is
> as important if not more than the story for me.

> Yeah, their "look" plays a part in it all, but you
> really find their appearance almost as important as
> the story? I don't get that...

MLccougar: "I'm not saying you fall into this grouping, but there are too many times where it seems like people are more into 'cute apes' than the rest of it all... With that outlook on it, they might as well just buy a few stills or a few of the figures and just sit back and gaze at those..."

James King: "I think that in the case of a semi-evolved Caesar what most POTA fans would be looking for is for the CGI depicting him to be able to convincingly emote and convey a compelling characterization. While I'm convinced that actor Andy Serkis
can carry off such a characterization, I'm don't know whether the script was written to take full advantage of Serkis' acting abilites much less written to give Caesar a full-fledged character. And that was one of the very questions I posed in my non-spoiler poll about the
'Rise of the POTA' script that nobody's deigned to venture to respond to thus far."

"Jeff K: "Enough with that ancient script (the January 2010 "Rise of the POTA" script). If you want to assume the worst for three months, be my guest."

As long as the questions to my non-spoiler poll about the quality of the "Rise of the POTA" script go unanswered -- not to mention that a few who did chime into my poll thread with stand-alone responses did so with predominantly negative reactions to the script -- you and others haven't given me any bonafide solid reasons based on your reading of the script to raise my hopes for the project, have you?


So, until such bonafide positive answers to my non-spoiler poll arise and outnumber those negative responses, I stand by my cautious lowering of my expectations for "Rise".

Armando says (maybe not exactly)," Man brought primitive apes in. When they realized how quick they were to learn, the pets became larger, and larger, until..." . That suggests to me genetic tampering to improve them. I think the authorities in "Escape" kept from the public the idea of the apes taking over. In both the movie and especially the novelization it's clear the public loved Cornelius and Zira, so maybe apes became a phenomenon after they died and companies specifically worked to put apes in homes. Since there was less than 20 years between "Escape" and "Conquest" it had to be something like that. Or else the apes changed magically from the space virus.


From: JohnM conquest-idor
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 11:20 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: new "Rise of the POTA" poster?



I always thought that Armandos talk with Caesar at Century city was to fill in what we are debating. Astronauts bring virus, kill domesticated pets(Parvo), man without pets , virus affected apes on a genetic level and furthur selective breeding made apes on par with the smartest animals left on earth. Then we fill in the blanks that the big nucleor war made apes even more mutated (smarter,long shot) and some humans went back their cities and in turn got mutated Battle-Beneath, and some humans stayed on ground but eventually got dumber nd dumber by a number of reasons we can only guess at. But to me it was explained even though it was done fast and mostly to help newer ape fans understand what they are watching if Conquest was their first apes film viewing time. Movies always do this to a better or worse effect. They really shouldnt fans like all the technicle reasons for what they are seeing on the big screen. John M.

It's just a fact people expect more realism in their effects these days. Chambers' makeup is art, no doubt, but it's a stumbling block for a lot of people and might keep them from the movies. For better or worse, CG is what dazzles people today. It may not dazzle you, but you're not going to spend $ 300 million on tickets.


From: Richard
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 2:18 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: BOOM POTA comic #1 sells out



Two negative mentions of "40 years old" in this post. This is an absurd criticism. You could view the original film and make-up 100 years from now and they'd still look brilliant. Class endures. Criticising something on the basis of age is George Lucas-thinking, and we all know how his Star Wars prequels turned out(CGI overkill, most of which looked fake).

40 years from now, you'll no doubt being saying that the Rise CGI looks totally primitive and phony. (Gorilla jumping at helicopter anyone? That looks completely phony to me already).

CGI technology dates far quicker than Chambers pristine make-ups ever will. That look is timeless. When people criticise it on account of its age, they're knocking a masterpiece. What next, the Mona Lisa? That thing's got cracks in it, get it out of my sight! Citizen Kane? Terrible special effects, let's re-make it. The Godfather- Brando's make-up sucks, let's re-do his scenes in CGI and make his voice clearer while we're at it.

I will watch the new film and I will enjoy it, I'm sure. But the CGI will distract me because I'll know it was created with a computer. If I wanted an Apes cartoon I'd have rented the old tv series.

Grumpy McGrumpison

It remains to be seen. It was a sellout with the comic shops (anticipating demand because of the trailer) but the public still has to buy.


From: johnroche49
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 2:38 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: BOOM POTA comic #1 sells out



In the current economic climate, with comics sales reported to be up to 20% down, to sell out is still a great result, in my opinion.It shows that people love Apes and (gasp!) Apes in comics.Can't wait to read mine.John, Scrolls.

Agree, and this comes from a very argumentive guy,take care,John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Alex Ruiz <pota1968@...> wrote:
>
> Well put. I couldn't agree more. :o)
> To each his own. And trying to stir up an argument over it is pointless.
>
> Al
>
>
>
>
>

I'd like to have a discussion of Issue #1, but I'd also like to wait
until most of those that are picking it up have had a chance to read it
and not spoil to story by starting a discussion too early.

Are there going to be many of you who will be picking it up in the next
few days?

Dario

Jeff K.: "Enough with that ancient script (the January 2010 "Rise of the POTA" script). If you want to assume the worst for three months, be my guest."

Alex Ruiz: "Well put. I couldn't agree more. :o) To each his own. And trying to stir up an argument over it is pointless."

Please cite which of my non-spoiler questions about the "Rise of the POTA" script was "pointless" (your term).

Moreover, I never said I would assume the worst about "Rise" in the first place. Quite the contrary, I'm just not assuming the best about it without genuine qualification. After all, as I'd prior noted, I've been burned one too many times by deceptive pre-release movie hype and publicity before. Tim Burton's "POTA" was disappointing enough. For these reasons, I created the non-spoiler poll to try to get a handle on the quality of the January 2010 "Rise" script.

If you're arguing that the "Rise of the POTA" script is passable, good, excellent or outstanding, then please answer the questions of my non-spoiler poll and convince me why it is so from your reading of it. Otherwise, you're not exactly making a convincing case by merely asking people to take your word for it *unless* you're willing to put your money where your mouths are and reimburse us for the cost of our movie tickets for "Rise of the POTA" *if* we're disappointed by the final product.

Attachments :

Pota121_.jpg
Pota121_-63339.jpg
pota0577.jpg
pota0577-63339.jpg
planet - Copy (3)-63339.jpg

On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 7:02 AM, rassmguy <handleyr@...> wrote:

We as POTA fans have gotten used to long stretches during which we've had to carry the franchise ourselves since Fox has done nothing at all to keep it afloat. But this is a good time to be a fan, and I'm psyched. Everything I've seen from Rise gives me hope that it'll be a good film, and I'm very happily about to sit down and read the first issue of BOOM!'s new comic. Has anyone heard anything about licensed tie-ins to the new film, in terms of comics and novels? What excites me is that if this film does well, we could suddenly see a whole new era of POTA licensed fiction. It's good to be a fan...

--

Bill Hollweg
Have Sword...
Will Slay...
Barbarian in need of Ale...
Check out my Audio Drama Productions-
Bill Hollweg
Lord of Design for BrokenSea Audio
And the other half of "The Brothers of Kaboom... BY FRACKIN' CROM!
http://brokensea.com/

The Saga of the Grog and Gryphon @
http://brokensea.com/grog/ and
http://www.westlakefilms.co.uk
Planet of the Apes/BPOTA at

http://brokensea.com/pota/
http://brokensea.com/bpota/

and
Ulysses-Galactic Guides & Bounty Hunting
http://brokensea.com/ulysses/ and
CONAN the Audio Book and Audio Drama
http://www.archive.org/details/ConanQueenOftheBlackCoastRobertEHowardFullCastAudio

OTR SwagCast http://brokensea.com/otr/

.html<.html

Well said Rich!

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "rassmguy" <handleyr@...> wrote:
>
> We as POTA fans have gotten used to long stretches during which we've had to carry the franchise ourselves since Fox has done nothing at all to keep it afloat. But this is a good time to be a fan, and I'm psyched. Everything I've seen from Rise gives me hope that it'll be a good film, and I'm very happily about to sit down and read the first issue of BOOM!'s new comic. Has anyone heard anything about licensed tie-ins to the new film, in terms of comics and novels? What excites me is that if this film does well, we could suddenly see a whole new era of POTA licensed fiction. It's good to be a fan...
>

This is what Aldo was about to say;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhh24BB84e4

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> It's definitely Aldo getting beat up. I thought it was history being changed (alternate timeline) but knowing Dehn he probably just forgot what he said in "Escape". Aldo sounded like he was going to say something, then he gets sedated.
>
>

Still waiting for my copy to arrive in the mail.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
>
> I'd like to have a discussion of Issue #1, but I'd also like to wait
> until most of those that are picking it up have had a chance to read it
> and not spoil to story by starting a discussion too early.
>
> Are there going to be many of you who will be picking it up in the next
> few days?
>
> Dario
>

Great pics William! I've never seen the one with the astronauts or the ones of Taylor and Nova.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, William Burge <billburge48@...> wrote:
>
> dear group, i found some planet photos i have not seen and beneath with the apes taking down the bomb . enjoy from william burge
>

Yeah, I'm waiting for it in mail too. That's what I get by ordering it through their website. LOL!

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Bill Hollweg <billhollweg@...> wrote:
>
> Here's hoping that
> A> The film rox!
> B> ties ins are in the making
> C> I get my paws on BOOM POTA soon <watching the mail everyday>...
> D>Rich makes another POTA Tome... I hav ere-read both so many times my
> simian mind is spinning and need another..
> ~Bill "RadioSimain" Hollweg
>

Lisa says "No" at the end of "Conquest" (true, not the original ending) so it could be assumed the apes were developing without the nukes. I think I've assumed "something" was brought back, not by one of the astronauts, but by Cornelius and Zira. That's the easiest explanation. Whatever caused the original apes to evolve was brought back and caused the "Conquest" apes to evolve. A virus, what have you.


From: JohnM conquest-idor
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:46 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: new "Rise of the POTA" poster?



I wont spend to much on this but when I was in college I wrote a thesis paper for my media writing course and it was on Apes. This was 1978 and I gathered information from some English magizine and it was implied by the writer that a nucleor war could of further mutated the Apes because of what the nukes had done with humans who stayed in N.Y.
I guess people like me who disscussed the Apes extensivly over the years have hit this little bump in the road on explaining how the apes super evolved and nucleor war was on everyones mind so blaming every mutation on the A-Bomb was a common excuse(remember the 1950s big bug sci-fi). Remember Conquest ended and no one spoke, then 17 years later Battle started and all the apes speak.(The ending in Conquest shown to us back in 72 knew that it was manipulated so we ended Conquest with the original ending thats on the bluray now except for "The End" title card thats still missing and the original screenplay and the Pournelle novelization. Us ape guys back then really found out alot when we were young)So in a way it was a slight implied reason and we went with it. Not the best answer but the truth, in my case.Take care, John M.

I said the script was mediocre. It needed better character development, better dialogue, better cohesion, the ending just kind of stopped, but there were also good moments (like Lithgow's character quoting Shakespeare's "Julius Caesar"). The stuff with the Rodman family was the best stuff but it needed improvement. It's been a year now since I read it.
But that would be like reading an early POTA script and trying to give you an opinion while discounting what everybody brings in the making of a movie. It's pointless. If all those actors say it's a great script I have to assume it's been improved. The stuff Andy Serkis said about it is incredible. That's enough to hold me over for 3 months. No one knows for sure what it's going to be, probably not even the director yet. Three months is an eternity the way they rush these films.


From: shrstrategygames
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:47 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: new "Rise of the POTA" poster?



Jeff K.: "Enough with that ancient script (the January 2010 "Rise of the POTA" script). If you want to assume the worst for three months, be my guest."

Alex Ruiz: "Well put. I couldn't agree more. :o) To each his own. And trying to stir up an argument over it is pointless."

Please cite which of my non-spoiler questions about the "Rise of the POTA" script was "pointless" (your term).

Moreover, I never said I would assume the worst about "Rise" in the first place. Quite the contrary, I'm just not assuming the best about it without genuine qualification. After all, as I'd prior noted, I've been burned one too many times by deceptive pre-release movie hype and publicity before. Tim Burton's "POTA" was disappointing enough. For these reasons, I created the non-spoiler poll to try to get a handle on the quality of the January 2010 "Rise" script.

If you're arguing that the "Rise of the POTA" script is passable, good, excellent or outstanding, then please answer the questions of my non-spoiler poll and convince me why it is so from your reading of it. Otherwise, you're not exactly making a convincing case by merely asking people to take your word for it *unless* you're willing to put your money where your mouths are and reimburse us for the cost of our movie tickets for "Rise of the POTA" *if* we're disappointed by the final product.

I'm going to see about picking it up today.


From: Dario Sciola
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 6:43 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Boom! #1 Review/comments?



I'd like to have a discussion of Issue #1, but I'd also like to wait
until most of those that are picking it up have had a chance to read it
and not spoil to story by starting a discussion too early.

Are there going to be many of you who will be picking it up in the next
few days?

Dario

Thanks. I needed that song. : )


From: jamesa1102
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:31 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: new "Rise of the POTA" poster?




This is what Aldo was about to say;-) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhh24BB84e4

.html<.html

Man, I thought I had them all. Nice surprises that I never saw before. Take care William, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, William Burge <billburge48@...> wrote:
>
> dear group, i found some planet photos i have not seen and beneath with the apes taking down the bomb . enjoy from william burge
>

Attachments :

original beneath artwork-63354.jpg
original beneath artwork-63354(1).jpg
800px-Beneath_Costume_Tests21.jpg
800px-Beneath_Costume_Tests21-63354.jpg
708px-Beneath_Costume_Tests35.jpg

*** Yeah, a lot of people seem to think (mainly because of the subtitles)
that they're calling that chimp Otto.... Which makes no sense at all,
especially since the actor is credited as playing Aldo... ***



In a message dated 4/28/2011 12:08:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
johnmermigas@... writes:

> Listen to the guards saying Aldo no, no aldo no. But fans always just say
> your hearing things.

</HTML>

Maybe Rory, but there will always be some kind of hope that there is someone in Fox who thinks like me and many other fans.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Yes I find the original Appearance as important than the story.There are Apes fans that will get it,and some as yourself that will not.No biggie.
> Just as I do not see the originals as you call it "cute apes" at all.And we will never have a Planet of the Apes character as cool looking as General Ursus,or Cornelius.
> I would love for a new Apes film to have that same original look with a new story or continuation instead of the shitty revamps.But some people liked the Burton remake Baker Makeup, I hated that too.
> And as far as the people that are into the Cute Apes, so be it.Whatever makes you happy is cool with me,but we all have our preferences.
>
>

In a message dated 4/28/2011 12:09:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
shrstrategygames@... writes:

> If the apes were already mutated in CONQUEST, they'd most, if not all,
> have been talking OR Caesar would have been teaching them to talk. They were
> not depicted as such.
>
> Only after the nuclear holocaust that came between CONQUEST and BATTLE do
> we see more primitive apes talking.

*** When you said the word "mutated", I assumed you were talking about the
way they LOOK, not their ability to speak... ***

>
> You also will not find any source for your assumption in Jerry Pournelle's
> novelization of CONQUEST. The plague that killed dogs and cats was never
> alluded to or implied to have had any causative effect in mutating apes.
>

*** Never said it did.... Never wanted it to say it either... Again,
because you seem very into their physical appearance, I thought you were talking
about them being "mutated" in the sense that they don't look like standard
"jungle apes"...

And BTW: As cool of a movie as CONQUEST is, that whole plague thing is
pretty dumb... A plague hits that conveniently only takes out house pets, pets
which aren't even related to each other and supposedly no other animals are
affected... If that plague kills felines and canines, then at least all of
their "relatives" should have been killed too... Lions, tigers, leopards
("felines") and wolves, coyotes, fox ("canines") among many others are all
animals that are related to cats and dogs and yet nobody mentions them dying
out... Plus, there are many other small animals that would make better pets than
primates: Rabbits, ferrets, rats/mice, birds, and so on supposedly weren't
affected by the plague and yet nobody turned to them as replacemnets for
their lost dogs and cats? ***</HTML>

Nothing he hasn't already said, except he says they have even tighter spoiler police than "Harry Potter". He also talks about reaction to the trailer.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1662827/rise-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-tom-felton..html"

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Farrow" <theskulpter@...> wrote:

>
> Yea, too bad the Rise Apes do not look like the Original,Chambers makeup IS the Planet of the Apes.But as far as assuming the worst for thrre months, there is nothing to assume..The new Apes look like Kongo lol they suck.
>

The Pierre Boulle book is the original Planet of the Apes, what followed depended on that fact. I know I'm being a bit facetious when I say that, and I have no problem with the films' deviation from the book (although I'd like to see the book adapted, too), but let's not forget where it all started from, and I mean where it really started from: the story.


Graham

I never knew that. I must check it out thanks LOL> John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:
>
> *** Yeah, a lot of people seem to think (mainly because of the subtitles)
> that they're calling that chimp Otto.... Which makes no sense at all,
> especially since the actor is credited as playing Aldo... ***
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/28/2011 12:08:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
> johnmermigas@... writes:
>
>
> > Listen to the guards saying Aldo no, no aldo no. But fans always just say
> > your hearing things.
>
> </HTML>
>

It was about a five hour drive, but listening to PotA soundtracks all the way up was a great way to spend the day.

Bethel Woods is a beautiful museum, looking like a chalet, surrounded by manicured lawns and woods – definitely not a place they would have allowed the hippy counterculture that the museum is dedicated to exploi-- er, celebrating!

:p

Seriously, it is a nice museum – at least the part I walked through to get to the theater. It's media heavy, with at least four video areas, one of which is a high-ceilinged circular room showing Woodstock video against one curved wall. At one point psychedelic lights flashed across the ceiling. There's also a painted VW bus, partially dissected to allow easy access. A video screen replaces the windshield, so you can experience driving down the highway – I wasn't in it long enough to find out what the point was (I had a movie to see). There was also something called…oh, wait; what was it? Oh yeah -- an "8 track tape player" in the back, a Wii-sized contraption with cartridge tapes almost the size of paperback books (if you can believe that!). Yeah, you know what I'm talking about!

There were only about 15 people in the theater, and the "discussion" that was supposed to accompany the screening turned out to be an introduction briefly contextualizing the movie in the late 60s and contrasting it with 2001 (which had been shown the week before) – mostly, 2001: optimistic with classical music; PotA pessimistic with "very different music" (I think that's how it was described!).
They projected a DVD (I didn't think to even ask which version). The picture looked perfect (to me; I'm not an expert). I haven't seen PotA on the big screen since I was a kid (a drive–in double feature with Beneath, IIRC), so that was a big thrill. The size made the crash more vertiginous, the Utah vistas more evocative, and the ending more stunning. I was reminded yet again what an excellent film this is (I know, "preaching to the choir!" – but it deserves to be said). The "See no evil…" scene got a really big laugh. The "Never trust anyone over 30" less of a laugh than I expected, considering the venue (and considering the age of the Woodstock generation, the museum gift shop sells a bumper sticker featuring that famous slogan with "over" crossed out and "under" written in).

Seeing the first film on a big screen has me really eager for the Exhumed Films marathon in July! I considered blowing off the Bethel screening once the EF marathon was announced, but decided to go for it, partially for the "discussion" that didn't materialize, but also just in case I can't get a ticket to the marathon (my natural pessimism, although I do expect to be able to be there -- and really can't wait).

Scott

Attachments :

zira-still_51-63365.jpg
zira-still_51-63365(1).jpg
planet - Copy (4)-63365.jpg
planet - Copy (4)-63365(1).jpg
caesarpota1.jpg

> Jeff K.: "Enough with that ancient script (the January 2010 "Rise of the POTA" script). If you want to assume the worst for three months, be my guest."

Alex Ruiz: "Well put. I couldn't agree more. :o) To each his own. And trying to stir up an argument over it is pointless."

James King: "Please cite which of my non-spoiler questions about the 'Rise of the POTA' script was 'pointless' (your term). Moreover, I never said I would assume the worst about 'Rise' in the first place. Quite the contrary, I'm just not assuming the best about it without genuine qualification. After all, as I'd prior noted, I've been burned one too many times by deceptive pre-release movie hype and publicity before. Tim Burton's 'POTA' was disappointing enough. For these reasons, I created the non-spoiler poll to try to get a handle on the quality of the January 2010 "Rise" script. If you're arguing that the 'Rise of the POTA' script is passable, good, excellent or outstanding, then please answer the questions of my non-spoiler poll and convince me why it is so from your reading of it. Otherwise, you're not exactly making a convincing case by merely asking people to take your word for it *unless* you're willing to put your money where your mouths are and reimburse us for the cost of our movie tickets for 'Rise of the POTA' *if* we're disappointed by the final product."

Jeff K.: "I said the script was mediocre.

Point of Information: You were not the only one to chime in with a stand-alone opinion on the matter. So I was not referring exclusively to your own opinion alone.

What's more, I myself could say that the shooting script to Tim Burton's "POTA" was also mediocre, but that's certainly would not be a compliment. And if I'd been told by a consensus of opinion of a number of people in advance that the 2001 "POTA" shooting script was mediocre, I would naturally have lowered my expectations in order to try to mitigate any deeper disappointment I might otherwise have felt.


Jeff K: "It needed better character development, better dialogue, better cohesion, the ending just kind of stopped, but there were also
good moments (like Lithgow's character quoting Shakespeare's 'Julius Caesar'). The stuff with the Rodman family was the best stuff but it needed improvement."

By my estimation, as of January 2010, they must have had some 3 to 6 months to prepare for a final shooting script *if* the January 2010 script wasn't the final version. I don't know whether they did interior shooting prior to or after they did the location shots.


Jeff K: "It's been a year now since I read it (the January 2010 'Rise' script). But that would be like reading an early POTA script and trying to give you an opinion while discounting what everybody brings in the making of a movie. It's pointless."

On the contrary, it's not at all pointless. One can readily see the potential in a script from reading earlier versions of it, especially those like the January 2010 "Rise" script which was one of the final versions -- if not THE final shooting script version -- before filming began. One can also see the evolution of ideas as well as the discarding of some along the way.

Can anybody confirm whether there were any rewrites of that January 2010 "Rise of the POTA" script? (If so, how many rewritten/revised scripts followed the January 2010 version?)

Moreover, was that 2010 "Rise of the POTA" script identified as an actual shooting script?

What exact date did filming begin on "Rise of the POTA" anyway? (Was this interiors filming OR location work?)


Jeff K: "Also, if all those actors say it's a great script, I have to assume it's been improved. The stuff Andy Serkis said about it is incredible."

I would be more apt to want to put more faith in what Andy Serkis says simply because he depicts Caesar and may be privy to certain character developments that may have been added and may not have been known or obvious to the real-life human actors.


Jeff K: "That's enough to hold me over for 3 months. No one knows for sure what it's going to be,probably not even the director yet. Three months is an eternity the way theyrush these films."

While I thank you for being more forthcoming with more details about your exact opinions of the January 2010 script, I believe I'm much safer off keeping my expectations lowered because experience has taught me the hard way to keep my euphoria in check especially whenever reasonable doubts arise as to the potnetial quality of the finished product.

Farrow: "Yea, too bad the Rise Apes do not look like the Original, Chambers makeup IS the Planet of the Apes. But as far as assuming the worst for three months, there is nothing to assume... The new Apes look like Kongo lol they suck."

Graham: "The Pierre Boulle book is the original Planet of the Apes, what followed depended on that fact. I know I'm being a bit facetious when I say that, and I have no problem with the films' deviation from the book (although I'd like to see the book adapted, too), but let's not forget where it all started from, and I mean where it really started from: the story."

Yes, Story is the most important element for success. It is the actual substance of the matter. Moreover, prioritizing the choice of make-up over the actual storyline falls into the department of Matters of Style Over Substance.

James King: "If the apes were already mutated in CONQUEST, they'd most, if not all, have been talking OR Caesar would have been teaching them to talk. They were not depicted as such. Only after the nuclear holocaust that came between CONQUEST and BATTLE do we see more primitive apes talking."

MLCCougar: "When you said the word "mutated", I assumed you were talking about the way they LOOK, not their ability to speak..."

I attribute the apes' look in CONQUEST to their having been genetically upgraded breedingwise. I did not attribute it to genetic mutuation.


James King: "You also will not find any source for your assumption in Jerry Pournelle's novelization of CONQUEST. The plague that killed dogs and cats was never alluded to or implied to have had any causative effect in mutating apes."

MLCCougar: "Never said it did.... Never wanted it to say it either..."

? Then *what* exactly were you attributing the apes' look in CONQUEST to?


MLCCougar: "Again, because you seem very into their physical appearance, I thought you were talking about them being "mutated" in the sense that they don't look like standard 'jungle apes'."

No, I was referring to their evolutionary advance to be able to talk and think more intellectually.

I also emphasized what Cornelius said he'd learned from the Secret Scrolls about primitive apes being bred for greater intelligence by humans in order to serve them not only as service animals but also eventually as servants/slaves.


MLCCougar: "And BTW: As cool of a movie as CONQUEST is, that whole plague thing is pretty dumb... A plague hits that conveniently only takes out house pets, pets which aren't even related to each other and supposedly no other animals are affected... If that plague kills felines and canines, then at least all of their 'relatives' should have been killed too... Lions, tigers, leopards ('felines') and wolves, coyotes, fox ('canines') among many others are all animals that are related to cats and dogs and yet nobody mentions them dying
out... Plus, there are many other small animals that would make better pets than primates: Rabbits, ferrets, rats/mice, birds, and so on supposedly weren't affected by the plague and yet nobody turned to them as replacemnets for their lost dogs and cats?"

That's because rabbits, ferrets, rats/mice and birds wouldn't make good service animals for the blind, the incapacitated, etc. However, it's logical that apes could become the next in line to become service animals for humans if all the dogs and cats died off.

When you consider that an actual malady called Feline AIDS exists, the notion of a plague killing off all the dogs and cats doesn't sound so far-fetched after all.

> From Wikipedia.org: Feline AIDS, known in the scientific community as Feline Immunodeficiency Virus (FIV), is a lentivirus that affects domesticated housecats worldwide and is the causative agent of feline AIDS.... FIV is the only non-primate lentivirus to cause an AIDS-like syndrome, but FIV is not typically fatal for cats, as they can live relatively healthily as carriers and transmitters of the disease for many years. A vaccine is available although its efficacy remains uncertain, and cats will test positive for FIV antibodies after vaccination.... FIV was first discovered in 1986 in a colony of cats that had a high prevalence of opportunistic infections and degenerative conditions, and has since been identified as an endemic disease in domestic cat populations worldwide.

*** I don't mind CG, especially since it's been improved so much in the
last few years... It's the 3-D "craze" that I have no use for... And it's funny
that so many people say that "old film" styles/techniques are "out"... What
they either forget or don't know is that 3-D films existed over 50 years
ago... I just hope that it dies out soon... ***



In a message dated 4/28/2011 9:23:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
veetus@... writes:

> For better or worse, CG is what dazzles people today. It may not dazzle
> you, but you're not going to spend $ 300 million on tickets.
>

</HTML>

*** Yes, but you and I both know that in Cornelius' talk in ESCAPE and
dialog from Armando in CONQUEST, they were talking about *pets*, not "service
animals"... Using a monkey as a service animal would make sense (and it's
being done now and I see nothing wrong with it), but replacing "Fido" and
"Tabby" with a 450 lb gorilla because you miss your lap dog makes no sense... ***


In a message dated 4/28/2011 7:59:58 PM Central Daylight Time,
shrstrategygames@... writes:

> That's because rabbits, ferrets, rats/mice and birds wouldn't make good
> service animals for the blind, the incapacitated, etc.

</HTML>

Attachments :

story-21-planet-apes-60025.jpg
story-21-planet-apes-60025-63371.jpg
planet - Copy (5)-63371.jpg
planet - Copy (5)-63371(1).jpg
ap890-63371.jpg

dear group, i found some different planet photos. enjoy from william burge

*** Like I said, I thought you were referring to their physical appearance
having to do with "post-nuclear war fallout" as to why they look the way
they do in CONQUEST... I see that's *not* what you meant... You explained your
stance and I get it- it's over with as far as I'm concerned...

If you want to know what I attribute their CONQUEST appearance to: I
attribute it to the fact that they were using that make-up style since PLANET and
they weren't about to change it... That and the fact that they were using
human beings in makeups, so of course that would also give them a different
appearance than you'd have with a real ape (different head shape, shorter
arms, longer legs, etc...) ***


In a message dated 4/28/2011 7:59:58 PM Central Daylight Time,
shrstrategygames@... writes:

> ? Then *what* exactly were you attributing the apes' look in CONQUEST to?

</HTML>

This is just a quick note to let folks know that the tickets for Exhumed Films' GO APE marathon are now on sale! You can purchase advance tickets with PayPal or credit card at the following link:

http://www.exhumedfilms.com/goape.html"

Just a reminder, we'll be screening the theatrical versions of all five original APES films on July 31, from 11am to approximately 8pm on Sunday, July 31. Tickets for the event are $20. The show takes place at The Ibrahim Theater @ International House, 3701 Chestnut Street, Philadelphia, PA. For more info, please visit our website at www.exhumedfilms.com, or check out our facebook page at www.facebook.com/exhumedfilms. Thanks for your time!

Dan Fraga,
Exhumed Films

All I've got for rewrites is on 7/10/10 Lithgow tweeted: "Another father-son scene today. A beautiful re-write arrived yesterday like a Christmas present". He also said Day 1 was July 5th. Lithgow was done shooting at the end of July.

http://twitter.com/#!/john_lithgow

Perhaps keeping your expectations low is the correct course. Me and my buddy John Lithgow are going to celebrate the imminent arrival of a new science fiction classic.



From: shrstrategygames
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 5:02 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: new "Rise of the POTA" poster?

> Jeff K.: "Enough with that ancient script (the January 2010 "Rise of the POTA" script). If you want to assume the worst for three months, be my guest."

Alex Ruiz: "Well put. I couldn't agree more. :o) To each his own. And trying to stir up an argument over it is pointless."

James King: "Please cite which of my non-spoiler questions about the 'Rise of the POTA' script was 'pointless' (your term). Moreover, I never said I would assume the worst about 'Rise' in the first place. Quite the contrary, I'm just not assuming the best about it without genuine qualification. After all, as I'd prior noted, I've been burned one too many times by deceptive pre-release movie hype and publicity before. Tim Burton's 'POTA' was disappointing enough. For these reasons, I created the non-spoiler poll to try to get a handle on the quality of the January 2010 "Rise" script. If you're arguing that the 'Rise of the POTA' script is passable, good, excellent or outstanding, then please answer the questions of my non-spoiler poll and convince me why it is so from your reading of it. Otherwise, you're not exactly making a convincing case by merely asking people to take your word for it *unless* you're willing to put your money where your mouths are and reimburse us for the cost of our movie tickets for 'Rise of the POTA' *if* we're disappointed by the final product."

Jeff K.: "I said the script was mediocre.

Point of Information: You were not the only one to chime in with a stand-alone opinion on the matter. So I was not referring exclusively to your own opinion alone.

What's more, I myself could say that the shooting script to Tim Burton's "POTA" was also mediocre, but that's certainly would not be a compliment. And if I'd been told by a consensus of opinion of a number of people in advance that the 2001 "POTA" shooting script was mediocre, I would naturally have lowered my expectations in order to try to mitigate any deeper disappointment I might otherwise have felt.

Jeff K: "It needed better character development, better dialogue, better cohesion, the ending just kind of stopped, but there were also
good moments (like Lithgow's character quoting Shakespeare's 'Julius Caesar'). The stuff with the Rodman family was the best stuff but it needed improvement."

By my estimation, as of January 2010, they must have had some 3 to 6 months to prepare for a final shooting script *if* the January 2010 script wasn't the final version. I don't know whether they did interior shooting prior to or after they did the location shots.

Jeff K: "It's been a year now since I read it (the January 2010 'Rise' script). But that would be like reading an early POTA script and trying to give you an opinion while discounting what everybody brings in the making of a movie. It's pointless."

On the contrary, it's not at all pointless. One can readily see the potential in a script from reading earlier versions of it, especially those like the January 2010 "Rise" script which was one of the final versions -- if not THE final shooting script version -- before filming began. One can also see the evolution of ideas as well as the discarding of some along the way.

Can anybody confirm whether there were any rewrites of that January 2010 "Rise of the POTA" script? (If so, how many rewritten/revised scripts followed the January 2010 version?)

Moreover, was that 2010 "Rise of the POTA" script identified as an actual shooting script?

What exact date did filming begin on "Rise of the POTA" anyway? (Was this interiors filming OR location work?)

Jeff K: "Also, if all those actors say it's a great script, I have to assume it's been improved. The stuff Andy Serkis said about it is incredible."

I would be more apt to want to put more faith in what Andy Serkis says simply because he depicts Caesar and may be privy to certain character developments that may have been added and may not have been known or obvious to the real-life human actors.

Jeff K: "That's enough to hold me over for 3 months. No one knows for sure what it's going to be,probably not even the director yet. Three months is an eternity the way theyrush these films."

While I thank you for being more forthcoming with more details about your exact opinions of the January 2010 script, I believe I'm much safer off keeping my expectations lowered because experience has taught me the hard way to keep my euphoria in check especially whenever reasonable doubts arise as to the potnetial quality of the finished product.

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They should remake "THEM" with normal size ants. Just real nasty ones like fire ants. Booth Colman can step on them. But they'll have to use CG ants so that no ants were harmed in the making of the film. Or remake Heston's "The Naked Jungle" with Brendon Fraser. Though they did kind of do it (bad) in "Indiana Jones 4".
The show that scared me the most as a kid was "The Zanti Misfits" on "The Outer Limits". That could be done real cool with CG.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyvR-lQwNzM
One thing they haven't done in the CG era is a shrinking movie. Comic book movies are wearing out their welcome but I'd be interested if that "Ant-Man" movie gets made.


From: Haristas@...
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2011 7:01 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: new "Rise of the POTA" poster?


Yeah, but you want to know what... The idea that radiation from nuclear weapons or an all out war causes miraculous genetic mutations is a trite Science Fiction cliche, and one from usually bad SF. In reality nuclear radiation kills and sterilizes. "Blame it on the radiation" just doesn't hold up anymore.

With CGI being what it is these days, I'll bet it won't be long before someone gets the idea of remaking THEM! (maybe with ants not as big as in the original), but they better come up with a better explanation than "nuclear radiation did it!"

-- Rory

I've read the first issue of the new comic. I dunno. Some of it looks like a Merchant-Ivory movie. The story wasn't very interesting. We'll have to see how it pans out. I liked the art but I guess I'm more open-minded about that stuff. It's hard to see how it fits with "Battle" though. Like Lucy, they've got some 'splainin' to do. Most Ape fans will probably hate it. Doesn't look like comics have evolved in the 20 years since Adventure ("Caesarists"?). But this time I've got a movie to look forward to, so comics aren't the only game in town.

In case anyone's interested, I created a preliminary cover gallery for the BOOM! series:

http://www.hassleinbooks.com/boom-studios-planet-of-the-apes-cover-gallery.html"

I'll add more details to it shortly.

Jeff K: "Lisa says 'No' at the end of "Conquest" (true, not the original ending) so it could be assumed the apes were developing without the nukes."

Lisa is but one chimpanzee whose speaking achievement was much like that of Nova in "Beneath". In Lisa's case, she spoke "No" not as refusal to servitude to humans but a compassionate "No" as in "No, we shouldn't kill any more humans." Lisa is in a sense channelling the Spirit of Zira in delivering that compassionate "No". It's also significant that Lisa's compassionate "No" appears to supply that inner voice to Caesar's conscience that persuades him to seek a new way -- a third way, so to speak. It is Caesar's more magnamimous Night Of The Fires speech (the new ending) that put the series back onto a more redemptive course that strives to break the vicious circle of the original timeline.


Jeff K: "I think I've assumed 'something' was brought back, not by one of the astronauts, but by Cornelius and Zira. That's the easiest explanation. Whatever caused the original apes to evolve was brought back and caused the 'Conquest' apes to evolve. A virus, what have you."

It's nicely ironic you should mention this as I have an abandoned short story set in the abandoned shipyard, site of the ending of "Escape from the Planet of the Apes", where a homeless vet makes his home aboard one of the abandoned ships where, hidden and unseen, he witnesses from his secret vantage point the events that transpire at the end of ESCAPE.

I wrote the story in the mode of a first-person narrative that was supposedly posted anonymously on a conspiracy website which relates a recollection of events that the anonymous person had allegedly witnessed firsthand. By my reckoning, the exact manner in which Zira & Cornelius had been killed would have been covered up and instead a cover story involving them in a freak accident of some sort would probably have been manufactured, or perhaps even alleging that they'd committed suicide together with their baby.

In either case, the once homeless vet -- who now speaks anonymously in revealing the events he personally witnessed -- alleges that he knows how the apes from the future were executed because he'd been aboard one of the neighboring ships and from his vantage point witnessed the murders of Zira & Cornelius and an unidentified human (Dr. Hasslein).

Days later after the Feds had left the site, the homeless vet relates how he finally emerged from hiding and went down and crossed over to the ship where the events had taken place days before. Aboard the ship where Zira & Cornelius had hidden, he's unable to find anything evidence-wise to serve to prove his story.

Alas, the homeless vet's dog apparently sniffed out some evidence though, and its unexpected death days later leaves the vet mystified. (I meant the dog's mysterious death to be inferred by the reader as having been caused by its having ingested some microbial vestige of the original plague that killed all dogs and cats which had been carried in the fibers of Zira carpet bag and transferred onto the blanket she'd carried within it.

In either case, since his dog hadn't interacted with others, the plague would not have been spread from there to infect other dogs and cats. Nevertheless, the dog's unexpected and mysterious death convinced the homeless vet that something evil had transpired there on that ship and ought to be investigated since what he saw didn't match what the Government alleged about the cause of Zira & Cornelius' deaths.

I abandoned the storyline because I'd been unable to produce any meaningful interactions between the stowaway Zira & Cornelius and the homeless vet and his pet dog. I mean, if the apes had suspected that a human was aboard one of the neighboring derelict ships, they would probably have moved to another ship or left the shipyard altogether.

And if the homeless vet's dog had called attention to itself or barked at them, then Zira & Cornelius might well have considered leaving the shipyard altogether because they might well have inferred that the dog might have had a master who might live nearby and come to investigate what it was barking at.

Even if the homeless vet had acted charitably and left some apples for them to find near the gang plank to the ship where they were hiding, Zira & Cornelius would probably have panicked because they'd have concluded that it would have been highly unlikely for either Dr. Dixon or Dr. Branton to merely have drop by to set out two apples for them to find because neither of the two humans knew exactly which ship they were hiding aboard anyway.

The storyline also didn't work when converted to another setting, that of the interactions between Dr. Dixon and Dr. Branton, the latter of whose own pet dog dies mysteriously enough. But then again, since neither Dr. Dixon nor Dr. Branton were present when Zira & Cornelius related how the Planet of the Apes had first began, there was no meaningful ending to such a story. (The implication was that the clothes of Zira & Cornelius had left microbial evidence in Dr. Branton's car that infected Dr. Branton's pet dog and cat sometime thereafter after she'd taken it with her in her car. Afterwards, it interacted at home with the cat.)

Again, because neither Dr. Dixon nor Dr. Branton were aware of the origin story of the Planet of the Apes, the incident would have left them both in the dark, even though they would have discovered the existence of the plague early on. (Although if Dr. Branton's dog had interacted with other dogs, the plague could have started to spread in earnest much, much earlier on.)

Even so, I had to remind myself: Nope, the plague against dogs and cats cannot get started so early as that and besides, the plague was still destined to occur anyway.

Either short story would have been little more than coda-like footnotes. In either case, although I once entertained the idea how Zira & Cornelius could have brought back something on their persons microbially that could have served to demonstrate the veracity of their POTA origin story (by having a single dog or cat die from exposure to some vestige of the plague particules), I thought it was too contrived and unmeritorious. Moreover, it would have only served to underscore the veracity of what Zira & Cornelius had told the CIA guys, thus making the CIA guys all the more alarmed to recommend more dire directives to prevent apes from ever serving as service animals much less servants/slaves.

But I never ventured to create an incident to initiate the plague against dogs and cats in earnest that early on, because, again, if it had, then the Government would have been ever more vigilant to prevent apes from rising, especially when Zira & Cornelius' words were still fresh in the minds of the CIA guys. And if they discovered that apes had mutated/evolved because of the plague virus, who knows, they might well have purposefully outlawed the breeding of apes for intelligence enhancement after all and instead started neutering them altogether to prevent even the possibility of a future planet of the apes and relegating them back to being exploited for drug & pharmaceutical testing.

There needed to be a passage of time before the plague got underway anyway because the foibles of human nature is to be complacent, neglectful and less vigilant about heedding dire warnings after time has gone by without any incident to raise such alarms. Moreover, after several different presidential administrations, the urgency posed by the secret revelations of Zira & Cornelius would slowly and eventually receed into the past.

Jeff K: "All I've got for rewrites is on 7/10/10 Lithgowtweeted:

> "Another father-son scene today. A beautiful re-write
> arrived yesterday like a Christmas present".

He also said Day 1 was July 5th. Lithgow was done shooting at the end of July."

> http://twitter.com/#!/john_lithgow

Perhaps keeping your expectations low is the correct course. Me and my buddy John Lithgow are going to celebrate the imminent arrival of a new science fiction classic."

And if not an outright science fiction classic, hopefully a moderately good (at least) science fiction film will also arrive in August 2011.

John M: "I won't spend to much on this but when I was in college I wrote a thesis paper for my media writing course and it was on Apes. This was 1978 and I gathered information from some English magizine and it was implied by the writer that a nucleor war could of further mutated the Apes because of what the nukes had done with humans who stayed in N.Y. I guess people like me who disscussed the Apes extensivly over the years have hit this little bump in the road on explaining how the apes super evolved and nucleor war was on everyones mind so blaming every mutation on the A-Bomb was a common excuse(remember the 1950s big bug sci-fi). Remember Conquest ended and no one spoke, then 17 years later Battle started and all the apes speak.(The ending in Conquest shown to us back in 72 knew that it was manipulated so we ended Conquest with the original ending thats on the bluray now except for "The End" title card thats still missing and the original screenplay and the Pournelle novelization. Us ape guys back then really found out alot when we were young)So in a way it was a slight implied reason and we went with it. Not the best answer but the truth, in my case."

Rory: "Yeah, but you want to know what... The idea that radiation from nuclear weapons or an all out war causes miraculous genetic mutations is a trite Science Fiction cliche, and one from usually bad SF. In reality nuclear radiation kills and sterilizes. 'Blame it on the radiation" just doesn't hold up anymore.'"

On the contrary, it just doesn't hold up anymore as an excuse to produce B and Z monster movies with that trite an explanation for the gigantic mutant [Fill-in-the-blank-animal-or-insect].


Rory: "With CGI being what it is these days, I'll bet it won't be long before someone gets the idea of remaking THEM! (maybe with ants not as big as in the original), but they better come up with a better explanation than 'nuclear radiation did it!'"

They certainly could legitimately remake "THEM!" as an eco-horror movie because scientists have already learned why bugs were so large in prehistoric times: Because there was a lot more abundant oxygen in the air. Raising super insects under hyper-elevated-oxygen-level conditions and given some sort of hyper-growth serum, a giant insect movie could be created without having to resort to nuclear fallout, radiation or even normal background radiation. (Scientists have actually confirmed the elevated-oxygen theory in actual lab experiments where they exposed common houseflies to elevated oxygen levels and got -- *Voila!* -- much larger than normal houseflies.

As to apes, however, author F. Paul Wilson wrote the acclaimed "Sims" near-future science fiction novel (a virtual "Conquest" redux) wherein Wilson explores a near-future event where an ape hybrid is created to serve as a de-facto slave race. He did it without resorting to radioactively-induced mutation. Rather, he did it with genetic splicing.

Continuing the plot description of Wilson's "Sims" novel from its Wikipedia entry whose content I have purposefully edited to eliminate spoilers: "In the near future, there have been amazing advances in genetics research. Through gene therapy, many deadly diseases have been cured. The SimGen Corporation has created a transgenic species called SIMS...[that] are treated as slaves. Suddenly a group of Sims working as caddies at a golf course decide they want to unionize. They hire lawyer Patrick Sullivan to represent them, and Sullivan begins to ponder whether or not Sims are entitled to equal human rights. During the course of the novel, Patrick meets activist Romy Cadman and a mysterious man called Zero who are on a crusade to destroy SimGen and stop the creation of Sims. While the three of them try to protect the Sims, they come close to uncovering a sinister secret within SimGen, a secret the company will stop at nothing to prevent from getting out. The story touches on a possible future for genetics research, including some provocate ideas of primate hybrids ... and asks the question: 'Where would such creatures stand in human society, and would they be considered animal or human?'"


As to whether "Sims" stands for Simians, I won't elaborate except to say that 20th Century-Fox should perhaps have considered purchasing the rights to "Sims" in order to marry its premise with that of the "Rise of the POTA" script to serve as the reboot for a new Planet of the Apes series. After all, both 20th Century-Fox and Warner Brothers puchased the rights to two books -- "The Tower" and "The Glass Inferno" -- in order to meld them together to create "The Towering Inferno".

Happy Friday! This week's installment of THE MENDEZ DYNASTY is now available.

To view the new MENDEZ biography, click on the banner on the Yahoo Home page or use this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MD.htm.

Have a great weekend everyone!

Visit all the Group's special features including:

• The Internal Website  - Original POTA One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much more.
• Marvel Archive 

- Online archive of Marvel Comics' adaptations of the original POTA movies.

More great pics! Thanks again William!

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, William Burge <billburge48@...> wrote:
>
> dear group, i found some different planet photos. enjoy from william burge
>