Obviously the marketing didn't work. No one was excited about this film until the reviews and word of mouth. They tried to sell it like a typical action flick and it's popular because it isn't typical.
And a few newspaper ads wouldn't hurt, Fox.


From: Haristas@...
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 8:34 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Behind the Social Marketing of 'Rise'



http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2011/08/12/behind-the-social-marketing-of-rise-of-the-planet-of-the-apes/?mod=google_news_blog

Looks like you run a good site. Well written. I'll have to put it on redial. But I was a fan of "Sacred Scrolls" so I'm not surprised. It was Oliver Stone back then, right? It only took them 15 years to make a good "Ape" movie.


From: maxprimal
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 9:56 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: My interview with RISE writers

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> I remember Zaki when he did the "Sacred Scrolls" magazine. Good interview. They made it happen.

Hi Jeff! How the heck are ya? Sorry I never got that next issue out... :-p

Zaki

I have the British movie mag Empire from Christmas 1993 and theirs the whole article on the Apes and Ahhnold playing the lead and an issue 1 1/2 years later with Oliver Stone and what his ideas were, in the same magazine,I will look for them, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Looks like you run a good site. Well written. I'll have to put it on redial. But I was a fan of "Sacred Scrolls" so I'm not surprised. It was Oliver Stone back then, right? It only took them 15 years to make a good "Ape" movie.
>
>

I've never been in a cinema audience where there have been so many 'oohs' and 'ahhss' and yelps of surprise from kids, adults (of all ages).RISE is something special and reviewers over here are calling it 'ROTPOTA' for short and are giving it a big thumbs up.On the BBC News film review, the film guy had only shown a few seconds when Gavin Esler, a news anchor man, said 'I'm liking this already!'.So, word of mouth should be great, I'm hoping.It seems to have crossed the age barrier and, personally, I think it's a magnificent film and a true enhancement of the original Apes canon.John, Scrolls.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Last weekend a lot of people saw "Rise". This week they recommended it to their friends and co-workers ("Yeah, yeah, "Planet of the Apes". No really, it's good"). This weekend the friends and co-workers go see it. A whole nest of them.
>
>

.html<.html

Welcome to the group! Please tell us about yourself. Where are you from? When did you become a POTA fan? What's your favorite movie? How did you like Rise?

If you want to upload the pic of you as Caesar, go here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/photos/album/2045767276/pic/list and just click "Add Photo". Would love to see it.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "monkeymermaid65" <monkeymermaid65@...> wrote:
>
> Hi. I'm a new member who just joined. I have a picture of me going to the Rise of the Apes opening in my Caesar(from Conquest)costume if anyone is interested in seeing it. I have to figure out how to make attachment first
>

Great interview Max. Thanks for posting.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "maxprimal" <MaxPrimal@...> wrote:
>
> Howdy folks!
> Just posted my interview with screenwriters Amanda Silver & Rick Jaffa.
> Some good stuff about Apes past and Apes future. Check it here:
> http://www.zakiscorner.com/2011/08/exclusive-interview-rise-of-planet-of\
> .htmlbr>> <http://www.zakiscorner.com/2011/08/exclusive-interview-rise-of-planet-o\
> f.htmlgt;
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
> It's both a reboot and a prequel.
>
> Both the director and the screenwriters have said it's a prequel -- to the original film!

That's not true. In this interview the screenwriters say it is a reboot: http://www.zakiscorner.com/2011/08/exclusive-interview-rise-of-planet-of.html"

To quote it:

"This is actually a question I had that I've seen floating around on the message boards as well, and maybe you can address it. This has been called a prequel, it's been called a reboot. What would you call it?

Rick: Well, it's funny. We were interviewed on the set last summer, and I said, "Well, it's a reinvention," and someone quickly said, "Well, that's exactly what Tim Burton told me in 2001," you know? So, it's really hard to say. I guess, if I had to pick, I would say reboot."

That's far more definitive than Wyatt's "So I guess it's a prequel" comment.

>
> My view of this has evolved.
>
> RISE is a prequel to the original movie, but it is not a prequel to the APES series, or franchise, that began with BENEATH.
>

A vastly different version of the original.

> Therefore RISE is also a reboot.

True

>
> If you're a believer in the closed circle, timeloop conception of the original series, that throws a net over the original and is flawed in its own right, since BATTLE hinted at a changed future, then you'll never accept RISE as a prequel to the original, and I think that's too bad.
>

I think it is too bad that some refuse to accept reality.

> It's like there are now going to really be two camps of APES followers, the conservatives who'll never accept RISE and its probable sequels as prequels to the original, and the progressives who know the original PLANET isn't chained to the lesser APES films and isn't trapped in a closed, and closed-minded, circle that leaves you no place to go.
>
It is not closed-minded to accept reality. Are those who accept evolution closed minded. Rather it is those who cling to their beliefs and ignore any fact that disputes those beliefs while jumping on any tiny scrap that may justify them that are the ones who trapped.

 

> But one thing seems certain, Fox wants you to think of it as a prequel. Prequel/reboot, that is.
>
Really? Since when? FOX has never called the film a prequel.

Can you believe it's been sixteen years! I was a sophomore/junior in high school. Wish I could have kept that mag going, but I was going broke pretty quick printing up all those issues in the pre-blog wilderness.

I was actually going through my files the other day and I found my master copies of all the issues I did. Fun stuff. I'd like to scan 'em and put 'em online somewhere just for archive purposes.

I also still have the timeline that you did for Ape Chronicles! That was a mammoth piece of work, and I really enjoyed re-reading it.

Z

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Looks like you run a good site. Well written. I'll have to put it on redial. But I was a fan of "Sacred Scrolls" so I'm not surprised. It was Oliver Stone back then, right? It only took them 15 years to make a good "Ape" movie.
>
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
> For me the reality is the finished films themselves.
>

In which there is not a single line of dialogue that ever says C&Z created an alternate timeline but there are numerous lines that say exactly the opposite:

Dr. Milo in Escape: "And Earth will be destroyed just as we saw it"

The Lawgiver in Battle: "Then God in his wrath sent the world a savior miraculously born of two Apes who had descended on Earth from Earth's own future".

Caesar in Battle: "I went looking for my past but I found our future".

> I would say that what Paul Dehn said out side of that reality is "jumping on any tiny scrap."
>

So then what Rupert Wyatt saying Rise is a prequel is outside of that reality and doesn't count either. You can't have it both ways.

> What is a reality is that in ESCAPE Cornelius and Zira lay out an entirely different scenario of the origins of their world's past than what is depicted in CONQUEST and BATTLE. In BENEATH it appears as if a nuclear war happened in the twentieth century, but in Escape Cornelius tells of apes being enslaved by man for hundreds of years. Then, the events of CONQUEST have the ape enslaved telescoped down to twenty years (or whatever).

So C&Z lay out a scenario that is inconsistant with what was presented in previous films as well as inconsistant with a statement made by Cornelius earlier in the very same film, a scenario that audience never witnesses or as characters C&Z never witnessed, and suddenly a theory that is extropolatied from the inconsistancies, which can be explained in several different way, becomes reality.
>
> Dehn either ignores or contradicts his own continuity, but you're saying that it should all just be ignored because in some interview Dehn says it's all a circle, so therefore it is a closed timeloop because that what Dehn says and he's the God of POTAdom or something. What a load of hugger mugger.
>

No he is the writer, it's his story, not anyone elses to change or revise with their personal theories.

> What's not a reality is the opinion of fans, such as yourself, that Cornelius and Zira are lying in ESCAPE.

I've never claimed they lied. It is obvious that they were relating events as they knew them. But those events were events they never personally witnessed; thus, can't be relied upon to be accurate.

>Later with BATTLE, the Corringtons rewrote his script, Jacobs approved, Dehn came back, did a dialogue polish, but didn't change the fact that the revisions were kept. BATTLE leaves the circle OPEN! The movie talks about changing lanes. It asks the question, Can the future be changed?
>
Now your changin the argument. I've never disputed that the events in Battle may have changed the future, just that C&Z didn't automatically create an alternate timeline. There is just no evidence to support that.

Thanks! And you can call me Zaki.

Z

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "jamesa1102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
>
> Great interview Max. Thanks for posting.
>

Rupert Wyatt didn't say, "I guess it's a prequel". In Sci-Fi Channel magazine he said, "this is primarily a prequel to the 1968 film". If the director says it's a prequel, the screenwriters say, "Yes, Master!".
But if they ignore that Taylor came from 1972, it's a reboot to me.

Dehn said he was bringing it full circle or whatever, but he didn't write "Battle". As Mrs. Corrington says in the "Battle" blu-ray, the question of "Battle" is whether we can change the future. If the POTA timeline is a circle then that negates the premise of "Battle", as well as Hasslein and Virgil's comments about "changing lanes". And Aldo, the ape who said "no", being sedated in "Conquest". It goes against the basic philosophy of the later films if events are set in stone.


From: Haristas@...
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 7:50 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: A couple of questions

> If you're a believer in the closed circle, timeloop conception of the original series, that throws a net over the original and is flawed in its own right, since BATTLE hinted at a changed future, then you'll never accept RISE as a prequel to the original, and I think that's too bad.
>

I think it is too bad that some refuse to accept reality.

> It's like there are now going to really be two camps of APES followers, the conservatives who'll never accept RISE and its probable sequels as prequels to the original, and the progressives who know the original PLANET isn't chained to the lesser APES films and isn't trapped in a closed, and closed-minded, circle that leaves you no place to go.
>

It is not closed-minded to accept reality. Are those who accept evolution closed minded. Rather it is those who cling to their beliefs and ignore any fact that disputes those beliefs while jumping on any tiny scrap that may justify them that are the ones who trapped.
For me the reality is the finished films themselves.

I would say that what Paul Dehn said out side of that reality is "jumping on any tiny scrap."

What is a reality is that in ESCAPE Cornelius and Zira lay out an entirely different scenario of the origins of their world's past than what is depicted in CONQUEST and BATTLE. In BENEATH it appears as if a nuclear war happened in the twentieth century, but in Escape Cornelius tells of apes being enslaved by man for hundreds of years. Then, the events of CONQUEST have the ape enslaved telescoped down to twenty years (or whatever).

Dehn either ignores or contradicts his own continuity, but you're saying that it should all just be ignored because in some interview Dehn says it's all a circle, so therefore it is a closed timeloop because that what Dehn says and he's the God of POTAdom or something. What a load of hugger mugger.

What's not a reality is the opinion of fans, such as yourself, that Cornelius and Zira are lying in ESCAPE. Later with BATTLE, the Corringtons rewrote his script, Jacobs approved, Dehn came back, did a dialogue polish, but didn't change the fact that the revisions were kept. BATTLE leaves the circle OPEN! The movie talks about changing lanes. It asks the question, Can the future be changed?

The classic POTA series is not a closed timeloop, it's open.

Reality.

No it's the screenwriters story and they say exactly the opposite. From Zaki's interview the screenwriters were involved from the beginning. Wyatt came in to the process later. He's telling their story but it is still their story, not his.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Rupert Wyatt didn't say, "I guess it's a prequel". In Sci-Fi Channel magazine he said, "this is primarily a prequel to the 1968 film". If the director says it's a prequel, the screenwriters say, "Yes, Master!".
> But if they ignore that Taylor came from 1972, it's a reboot to me.
>

There are two different questions here that are being confused. The first is if C&Z automatically created an alternate timeline. The second is if Caesar was successful in Battle of changing the future. There is no evidence to support the first question either from within or outside the films. The second is a possiblilty and once you contend that Caesar changed the future, you're acknowledging that C&Z arriving in the 20th century were part of a series of events that untimately lead to Planet and Beneath if Caesar's efforts to change that future were not successful.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Dehn said he was bringing it full circle or whatever, but he didn't write "Battle". As Mrs. Corrington says in the "Battle" blu-ray, the question of "Battle" is whether we can change the future. If the POTA timeline is a circle then that negates the premise of "Battle", as well as Hasslein and Virgil's comments about "changing lanes". And Aldo, the ape who said "no", being sedated in "Conquest". It goes against the basic philosophy of the later films if events are set in stone.
>
>

I've always said it is an open timeloop. Either way Rise has nothing to do with it because the alternate timeline would be created after the events of Battle.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Then what are we arguing about? If you admit that events in BATTLE may change the future then you're admitting to an alternate timeline. And if not that, then at least that it's an open timeloop.
>

So you're saying that if Ted Post or Rupert Wyatt directed Hamlet that it is no longer Shakepeare's story, it's theirs.

And I thought that you said what was said outside of the reality of the films didn't count anyway.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
> The director is THE artistic author of the finished film. It's his movie. Go ask the Director's Guild if you don't believe me.
>
> PLANET is Schaffner's movie. It wouldn't be the same if Ted Post had directed it.
>

Caesar: Can we make the future what we wish?

McDonald: I've heard that it's possible, Caesar!

The president asks Hasslein if by present day action they can change the future. He says yes and the Prez asks if they can, should they? Killing Hitler's remote ancestors, etc. Seems a pretty important question to Dehn, too.


From: jamesa1102
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 8:44 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: A couple of questions

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
> For me the reality is the finished films themselves.
>

In which there is not a single line of dialogue that ever says C&Z created an alternate timeline but there are numerous lines that say exactly the opposite:

Dr. Milo in Escape: "And Earth will be destroyed just as we saw it"

The Lawgiver in Battle: "Then God in his wrath sent the world a savior miraculously born of two Apes who had descended on Earth from Earth's own future".

Caesar in Battle: "I went looking for my past but I found our future".


> I would say that what Paul Dehn said out side of that reality is "jumping on any tiny scrap."
>

So then what Rupert Wyatt saying Rise is a prequel is outside of that reality and doesn't count either. You can't have it both ways.


> What is a reality is that in ESCAPE Cornelius and Zira lay out an entirely different scenario of the origins of their world's past than what is depicted in CONQUEST and BATTLE. In BENEATH it appears as if a nuclear war happened in the twentieth century, but in Escape Cornelius tells of apes being enslaved by man for hundreds of years. Then, the events of CONQUEST have the ape enslaved telescoped down to twenty years (or whatever).

So C&Z lay out a scenario that is inconsistant with what was presented in previous films as well as inconsistant with a statement made by Cornelius earlier in the very same film, a scenario that audience never witnesses or as characters C&Z never witnessed, and suddenly a theory that is extropolatied from the inconsistancies, which can be explained in several different way, becomes reality.
>
> Dehn either ignores or contradicts his own continuity, but you're saying that it should all just be ignored because in some interview Dehn says it's all a circle, so therefore it is a closed timeloop because that what Dehn says and he's the God of POTAdom or something. What a load of hugger mugger.
>

No he is the writer, it's his story, not anyone elses to change or revise with their personal theories.


> What's not a reality is the opinion of fans, such as yourself, that Cornelius and Zira are lying in ESCAPE.

I've never claimed they lied. It is obvious that they were relating events as they knew them. But those events were events they never personally witnessed; thus, can't be relied upon to be accurate.

>Later with BATTLE, the Corringtons rewrote his script, Jacobs approved, Dehn came back, did a dialogue polish, but didn't change the fact that the revisions were kept. BATTLE leaves the circle OPEN! The movie talks about changing lanes. It asks the question, Can the future be changed?
>
Now your changin the argument. I've never disputed that the events in Battle may have changed the future, just that C&Z didn't automatically create an alternate timeline. There is just no evidence to support that.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:

>
>
>
> The problem is that you totally dismiss the scenario that Cornelius and Zira tell in ESCAPE. If you look at it that way, that the Scared Scrolls get history wrong, then we're nowhere.

I don't dismiss it, I just don't buy into it as being rock solid 100% accurate, especially since it is inconsistant with what was presented in the previous films, and then extrapolate any theories from it.

>
> I say there has to be an original timeline to create Cornelius and Zira and send them back in time.

No there doesn't. It's not what you say but what the writer says that counts. He created that universe and his rules apply, not yours.

They can't have just popped into existence in 1973 from a future that hasn't happened yet, so if it that future did happen, before their birth, then it had to have happened without their existence. It's simple logic, something Dehn wasn't very good at.

>

If you want logic you should be a Star Trek fan, but they did temporal loop stories too.

Yes they are talking about changing the future because they believe that the events which started when C&Z arrived in LA started a chain of events that will lead to Planet and Beneath. So they have to change the future.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Caesar: Can we make the future what we wish?
>
> McDonald: I've heard that it's possible, Caesar!
>
> The president asks Hasslein if by present day action they can change the future. He says yes and the Prez asks if they can, should they? Killing Hitler's remote ancestors, etc. Seems a pretty important question to Dehn, too.
>
>

It's Shakespeare's story but it's the director's film. If the director, like Kenneth Branagh, wants to set Shakespeare's story in the 19th Century, long after Shakespeare was dead, he can. The difference is the "Rise" writers are alive (and producers of the film) to consult with the director.


From: jamesa1102
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 9:19 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: A couple of questions




So you're saying that if Ted Post or Rupert Wyatt directed Hamlet that it is no longer Shakepeare's story, it's theirs.

And I thought that you said what was said outside of the reality of the films didn't count anyway.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
> The director is THE artistic author of the finished film. It's his movie. Go ask the Director's Guild if you don't believe me.
>
> PLANET is Schaffner's movie. It wouldn't be the same if Ted Post had directed it.
>

.html<.html

I love the talk here. I think its simple and all Rise is is a new Apes series that starts at the begining and ends with the Earth either blowing up or the arrival of Taylor and thats it. Its done with todays technology and thats it.
Its a new update that starts at Conquest and will end with Beneath sort of speak.
A new Ape film(Sequel) should be called BIRTH OF THE PLANET OF THE APES. Its also what Caesar said in the truncated version of Conquest and I think its a good and exacting title. John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "jamesa1102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > For me the reality is the finished films themselves.
> >
>
> In which there is not a single line of dialogue that ever says C&Z
> created an alternate timeline but there are numerous lines that say
> exactly the opposite:
>
> Dr. Milo in Escape: "And Earth will be destroyed just as we saw it"
>
> The Lawgiver in Battle: "Then God in his wrath sent the world a savior
> miraculously born of two Apes who had descended on Earth from Earth's
> own future".
>
> Caesar in Battle: "I went looking for my past but I found our future".
>
>
> > I would say that what Paul Dehn said out side of that reality is
> "jumping on any tiny scrap."
> >
>
> So then what Rupert Wyatt saying Rise is a prequel is outside of that
> reality and doesn't count either. You can't have it both ways.
>
>
> > What is a reality is that in ESCAPE Cornelius and Zira lay out an
> entirely different scenario of the origins of their world's past than
> what is depicted in CONQUEST and BATTLE. In BENEATH it appears as if a
> nuclear war happened in the twentieth century, but in Escape Cornelius
> tells of apes being enslaved by man for hundreds of years. Then, the
> events of CONQUEST have the ape enslaved telescoped down to twenty years
> (or whatever).
>
> So C&Z lay out a scenario that is inconsistant with what was presented
> in previous films as well as inconsistant with a statement made by
> Cornelius earlier in the very same film, a scenario that audience never
> witnesses or as characters C&Z never witnessed, and suddenly a theory
> that is extropolatied from the inconsistancies, which can be explained
> in several different way, becomes reality.
> >
> > Dehn either ignores or contradicts his own continuity, but you're
> saying that it should all just be ignored because in some interview Dehn
> says it's all a circle, so therefore it is a closed timeloop because
> that what Dehn says and he's the God of POTAdom or something. What a
> load of hugger mugger.
> >
>
> No he is the writer, it's his story, not anyone elses to change or
> revise with their personal theories.
>
>
> > What's not a reality is the opinion of fans, such as yourself, that
> Cornelius and Zira are lying in ESCAPE.
>
> I've never claimed they lied. It is obvious that they were relating
> events as they knew them. But those events were events they never
> personally witnessed; thus, can't be relied upon to be accurate.
>
> >Later with BATTLE, the Corringtons rewrote his script, Jacobs approved,
> Dehn came back, did a dialogue polish, but didn't change the fact that
> the revisions were kept. BATTLE leaves the circle OPEN! The movie talks
> about changing lanes. It asks the question, Can the future be changed?
> >
> Now your changin the argument. I've never disputed that the events in
> Battle may have changed the future, just that C&Z didn't automatically
> create an alternate timeline. There is just no evidence to support that.
>

Dehn might not have been good at it because he is a Poet first. Artist like musicians and poets and Artists (proper-paint) are a nutty bunch and stuburn. I know I come from a family of them and are one myself. Dehn looked at the artristic side of writing and not the details. He looks at the whole picture not the minutua that makes it up. He is subjective in his makeup and not objective. Most on this site are very Objective because you want definte answers and proof of it. Subjective, even with my rants, is what I consider my thinking and identify it with Dehn and others. Let the individual make up their own minds and find what they want in any specific scenerio be it music, film. What it means or sounds like to you regardless of measuments. Engineers are objective in thinking and artist are subjective and Dehn is subjective-he wasnt concerned with the facts, no matter how bad that sounds..Sorry for the diatribe,John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> There are two different questions here that are being confused. The first is if C&Z automatically created an alternate timeline. The second is if Caesar was successful in Battle of changing the future. There is no evidence to support the first question either from within or outside the films. The second is a possiblilty and once you contend that Caesar changed the future, you're acknowledging that C&Z arriving in the 20th century were part of a series of events that untimately lead to Planet and Beneath if Caesar's efforts to change that future were not successful.
>
>
>
> The problem is that you totally dismiss the scenario that Cornelius and Zira tell in ESCAPE. If you look at it that way, that the Scared Scrolls get history wrong, then we're nowhere.
>
> I say there has to be an original timeline to create Cornelius and Zira and send them back in time. They can't have just popped into existence in 1973 from a future that hasn't happened yet, so if it that future did happen, before their birth, then it had to have happened without their existence. It's simple logic, something Dehn wasn't very good at.
>

Yes, but if you wanted to "Rise" could be the start of the story leading to POTA68 and then "Escape" would start a new timeline. Nothing in "Rise" contradicts the other films as long as Taylor isn't in it.
Right now the writers seem to have their hearts set on "Revenge of the POTA", although if I were them I'd do a title without two "of the"s.


From: JohnM conquest-idor
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 10:03 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: A couple of questions



I love the talk here. I think its simple and all Rise is is a new Apes series that starts at the begining and ends with the Earth either blowing up or the arrival of Taylor and thats it. Its done with todays technology and thats it.
Its a new update that starts at Conquest and will end with Beneath sort of speak.
A new Ape film(Sequel) should be called BIRTH OF THE PLANET OF THE APES. Its also what Caesar said in the truncated version of Conquest and I think its a good and exacting title. John M.

One might also say that about the writers of "Rise" and their plotholes. They're more interested in how the music sounds then where they put the notes.


From: JohnM conquest-idor
Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2011 10:25 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: A couple of questions



Dehn might not have been good at it because he is a Poet first. Artist like musicians and poets and Artists (proper-paint) are a nutty bunch and stuburn. I know I come from a family of them and are one myself. Dehn looked at the artristic side of writing and not the details. He looks at the whole picture not the minutua that makes it up. He is subjective in his makeup and not objective. Most on this site are very Objective because you want definte answers and proof of it. Subjective, even with my rants, is what I consider my thinking and identify it with Dehn and others. Let the individual make up their own minds and find what they want in any specific scenerio be it music, film. What it means or sounds like to you regardless of measuments. Engineers are objective in thinking and artist are subjective and Dehn is subjective-he wasnt concerned with the facts, no matter how bad that sounds..Sorry for the diatribe,John M.

"Rise" kicked off the weekend with $ 8 million and will probably win the 3 days, though "The Help" looks like it will breathe down it's neck the whole time. Estimates have "risen" from $ 23 - 25 million to $ 26 m. or more. It's doing better than Fox's other prequel "X-Men" did at this point. I'm hoping word of mouth will carry farther in the long run but so far "X-Men: First Class" looks to be the role model. Of course, neither had the benefit of 3D prices that some of the other summer blockbusters had.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3247&p=.htm

On the foreign front, "Rise" made $ 43 million through Thursday (8/11).

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=riseoftheapes.htm

Revenge sounds like a real B-Movie. Taylor should not matter at all. Caesar is in the films so whats the problem with a "New" taylor. He couldnt of gone into space in 1972 cause Rise take place now 2011.
Their remaking the series with characters and ideas from the original series and thats all this is and thats fine by me. I love good debates but I feel we could get into a corner with alot of screaming to get out of it after a while.
Rise does not have to fit in the original series and its absurd ,no matter who says it, to think it could. Its been done and thats that. This is remaking a series of films that are over 40 years old and could use a makeover if one is so inclined.
I like the new music as far as I can tell but that seems to be the one part that cannot be improved on with Apes. Reason is easy..It relies on talent not technology. The writting is almost in the same league but somehow bad ideas can be overlooked by the public probably because we are getting dumber as a nation and action over acting is becoming the rule. Now im going on and on, sorry, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Yes, but if you wanted to "Rise" could be the start of the story leading to POTA68 and then "Escape" would start a new timeline. Nothing in "Rise" contradicts the other films as long as Taylor isn't in it.
> Right now the writers seem to have their hearts set on "Revenge of the POTA", although if I were them I'd do a title without two "of the"s.
>
>

So true with music,like I said in the post before this one. Today its more the sound than the quality of the tune. But even the sound is given short shcriff with compressed digital audio and the MP-3 world we live in. John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> One might also say that about the writers of "Rise" and their plotholes. They're more interested in how the music sounds then where they put the notes.
>
>

Rise reportedly has less of a "fall-off" at the box office than POTA2001:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3247&p=.htm

"Rise of the Planet of the Apes packed an estimated $8.1 million, retreating 59 percent from last Friday. Though steep, the second Friday drop-off was less severe than Planet of the Apes (2001)."

Admittedly, POTA2001 made more its first weekend ($68 million, unadjusted for inflation) so the cliff was more steep in 2001. But at any rate, I would hope that Rise is benefiting from the fine word of mouth that it deserves, and which it's getting from catalysts like us. I've been telling anyone I think would be interested :-)

Incidentally a gal in her late teens recently told me she liked Rise BUT DIDN'T KNOW IT IS A PREQUEL (until I told her), and that she hadn't seen the others.

At any rate, isn't it nice to see Rise remaining on top?

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/daily/chart/

Perhaps it might remain in the upper echelon for a while since the next crop of good movies might not arrive before Thanksgiving? Pot-boilers will occasionally displace it but perhaps the back-to-school crowd will be an interesting dynamic as folks talk face-to-face about it, including with newcomers to our beloved simian franchise.

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In the '80's. They would have known about Cornelius and Zira.


From: Haristas@...
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 3:58 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: A couple of questions



You know what they should have done in RISE is have a news story on TV that it's been revealed there was a secret government space agency called ASNA that sent a Col. Taylor and his crew on an interstellar flight back in 1972. It's a scandal because the cost of it and its top secret technology helped end the Apollo missions and nobody knows where all the monies have gone. Not quite plausible, but it would more directly link RISE to the old series.


Hey when was it that the Alan and Burke left earth in the TV series? I forget now. Been thinking how the TV show fits into the "continuity" -- if at all.

Yeah, it doesn't look like there's a mad dash to see it from word of mouth. It's only going to do so-so.


From: Haristas@...
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 4:19 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: Rise has less "fall-off" at box office than POTA2001



It'll probably drop to third or fourth place next weekend. CONAN and FRIGHT NIGHT will battle for top spot.

Yes and both screenwriters were also two of the producers of the film so it is really their film. That's why the Oscar for best picture goes to the producers, not the director.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> It's Shakespeare's story but it's the director's film. If the director, like Kenneth Branagh, wants to set Shakespeare's story in the 19th Century, long after Shakespeare was dead, he can. The difference is the "Rise" writers are alive (and producers of the film) to consult with the director.
>
>

Please quote the line or lines of dialogue that directly establishes that.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> 
>
> A new timeline begins as soon as the apes appear in their past.
>

Wow, Rory's finally been left speechless! ;-)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
> I don't know how to respond to this. What we have here is a failure to commincate.
>

So you must think the original Terminator is bad SF as well as numerous episodes of The Twilight Zone, Star Trek, Stargate, Doctor Who, etc.

And it is not about being a fundementalist but not being a revisionist and respecting the intent of the writer and filmmaker to tell their story.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
> Dehn's "rules" are a bunch of bad SF and that's the reality. His POTA saga is a logical mess and that's why I'm not a Dehn fundamentalist.
>

Then I guess Hasslein and Caesar were just wasting their time trying to change things since everything will be automatically different. That really makes Escape and Battle rather pointless dramatically.

Of course, you can quote the lines of dialogue which directly supports your comment.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
> YES!!!!
>
> Because they're from a future that for them already happened. ESCAPE starts a second go around and it will be different!
>

The TV series never states when Virdon and Burke were launched. The opening credits show their ship thrown into the time warp, approaching Alpha Centari, in 1980. Alpha Centari is 4.5 light years away. If their ship was capable of traveling at the speed of light, it would take 4 1/2 years to reach it from Earth, assuming they went directly there after being launched.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> In the '80's. They would have known about Cornelius and Zira.
>
>
> From: Haristas@...
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 3:58 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [pota] Re: A couple of questions
>
>
>
> Hey when was it that the Alan and Burke left earth in the TV series? I forget now. Been thinking how the TV show fits into the "continuity" -- if at all.
>

Why are people commenting on the 2 "the"s? Beneath,Escape, Conquest, Battle, and Return all have 2 thes

Here's the imdb thread of logic gaps in "Rise" for those who want to delve into them. Of course the originals have their share too. The POTA concept is a hard one to finesse, especially the origin.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1318514/board/thread/186989284&p=1#186989284

"Rise" made an estimated $ 27 million domestic this weekend, though it ain't over until it's over. That's more than the expected $ 23 - 25 mil.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/

Except for "Conquest" (and "Rise") the other POTAs don't have two "of the"s. I guess it's considered bad grammar. All I know is a lot of people complained about the title.


From: Jeff Barkley
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 9:20 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pota] Re: A couple of questions




Why are people commenting on the 2 "the"s? Beneath,Escape, Conquest, Battle, and Return all have 2 thes

What am I missing? beneath THE planet of THE apes, escape from THE planet of THE apes, conquest of THE planet of THE apes, battle for THE planet of THE apes, return to THE planet of THE apes, rise of THE planet of THE apes.

Jeff

On Sun, Aug 14, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Jeff K. <veetus@...> wrote:

Except for "Conquest" (and "Rise") the other POTAs don't have two "of the"s. I guess it's considered bad grammar. All I know is a lot of people complained about the title.

From: Jeff Barkley
Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 9:20 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pota] Re: A couple of questions

Why are people commenting on the 2 "the"s? Beneath,Escape, Conquest, Battle, and Return all have 2 thes

.html

>>I find it hard to believe this THE HELP, which I never heard of

before, is going to draw huge crowds on the weekend. It's not playing at the multiplex I saw RISE at last weekend. It looks like just a chick flick to me. <<
<.html

I've just seen Rise and what a totally entertaining movie, I loved it roll on the sequal

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "JohnM conquest-idor" <johnmermigas@...> wrote:
>
> I love the talk here. I think its simple and all Rise is is a new Apes series that starts at the begining and ends with the Earth either blowing up or the arrival of Taylor and thats it. Its done with todays technology and thats it.
> Its a new update that starts at Conquest and will end with Beneath sort of speak.
> A new Ape film(Sequel) should be called BIRTH OF THE PLANET OF THE APES. Its also what Caesar said in the truncated version of Conquest and I think its a good and exacting title. John M.
>

> What am I missing? beneath THE planet of THE apes, escape from THE planet
> of THE apes, conquest of THE planet of THE apes, battle for THE planet of
> THE apes, return to THE planet of THE apes, rise of THE planet of THE apes.

As Jeff K. said, it's not the "the"s, it's the "of the"s that some
people complain about.

rise OF THE planet OF THE apes

And, as Jeff K. said, the only other film with two "of the"s is

conquest OF THE planet OF THE apes

Some people apparently find the dual "of the"s awkward or cumbersome.
They don't bother me....

Hunter

I do hope we get deleted scenes on the DVD.

Mel

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> This reviewer thinks so. (No Spoilers -- except for the still of a scene that didn't make final cut)
>
>
> http://flickeringmyth.blogspot.com/2011/08/second-opinion-rise-of-planet-of-apes.html"
>

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Feel better.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
> Actually, I was at the beginning stages of being deathly ill. I've been sick this weekend. Still don't feel well, so don't get me started. ;-(
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Why do you insist that there needs to be that? 

 
Because it is just basic storytelling. If something is an element or part of the your story it needs to be clearly and directly established.

>It's always (as best as I can remember) seemed rather obvious to me that they would immediately change their own past.

Just because it is "obvious" to you doesn't make it so, doesn't make it the writer's intent. 
 
> Don't you see the simple logic of what I'm saying?

No I don't.
>
> I don't think that Dehn meant that the APES films were a literal cycle that would endlessly repeat itself, but instead he meant it figuratively, to tie all the films together. It was a poetic thing.
>
His quotes pretty much say that he did, unless you have some quotes by him that support what you're saying.

You mean people have nothing else to do but complain about grammer. Im sure these same people cannot even put a sentence together without their heads exploding.
A Rose by any other name as Shakespear once wrote. This is not directed at you Hunter just at what ive been reading. Its going to give me a serious case of apoplexy. Their is nothing wrong with these conjunctions in the titles.
Anyway, Rise looks like, according to organizations that do these type of trackings, on its way when its all over to make 400 million worldwide by thanksgiving. Its already made just about 200 million worldwide and some good markets are still waiting to be expoited, Take Care, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Hunter Goatley <goathunter@...> wrote:
>
> > What am I missing? beneath THE planet of THE apes, escape from THE planet
> > of THE apes, conquest of THE planet of THE apes, battle for THE planet of
> > THE apes, return to THE planet of THE apes, rise of THE planet of THE apes.
>
> As Jeff K. said, it's not the "the"s, it's the "of the"s that some
> people complain about.
>
> rise OF THE planet OF THE apes
>
> And, as Jeff K. said, the only other film with two "of the"s is
>
> conquest OF THE planet OF THE apes
>
> Some people apparently find the dual "of the"s awkward or cumbersome.
> They don't bother me....
>
> Hunter
>

Will there be a version in English?

Jess.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 4:21 AM, Gelson Nicolini Monteiro <gelsonnicolini@...> wrote:

Hi,

Congratulation.

Can you sent us a scan of the cover?

Can we Buy in Brazil from Internet?

Abs!

2011/8/12 Luiz Saulo Adami <apedami@...>

Hi, my dear Ape friends!

This year, I will to present my new book about Planet of the Apes, called: HOMEM NÃO ENTENDE NADA! (MAN HAS NO UNDERSTANDING!), in the next November, by DOM books, with Vagner Vargas' art cover! The book is a complete review of the first Brazilian book about Apes, called O ÚNICO HUMANO BOM É AQUELE QUE ESTÁ MORTO! (THE ONLY GOOD HUMAN IS A DEAD HUMAN!).

Now, in August 26th, in Brusque, Santa Catarina, Brazil, the movie RISE OF THE PLANET OF THE APES will be opened!

Best wishes!

Saulo Adami

From Brazil

The actuals are in and "Rise" made $ 27 million this weekend and $ 105 million total domestic through Sunday, plus $ 74 million total through Sunday elsewhere for a rounded off total of $ 180 million worldwide. Only $ 800 million plus change until it reaches $ 1 billion. The apes can do that blindfolded!

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=riseoftheapes,htm

Patrick Doyle's score for "Rise of the POTA" hits tomorrow. Here's the review from my fave movie music site:

http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/rise_planet_apes.html"

And here's my fave tracks:

# 8 (reminds me of Goldsmith's "The Hunt"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOgZbhRGi1c

# 12: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7TYcgVMUzU

#13: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPfrj6RR9PA

#16: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkRF5tZP1a4

#18: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvvIdAJJYDY

#24: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vnMz5-8nw4

I don't understand those complaining about the two "of the"s, for two reasons:

1) I've never heard anyone complain about the same thing in Conquest's title.

2) It's not incorrect grammar.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Except for "Conquest" (and "Rise") the other POTAs don't have two "of the"s. I guess it's considered bad grammar. All I know is a lot of people complained about the title.
>
>
> From: Jeff Barkley
> Sent: Sunday, August 14, 2011 9:20 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [pota] Re: A couple of questions
>
>
>
>
> Why are people commenting on the 2 "the"s? Beneath,Escape, Conquest, Battle, and Return all have 2 thes
>

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Location:		ACTION MAX
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I guess I underestimated this film... While it didn't do as well in its
second weekend, it kept its number 1 spot so my prediction was off...



In a message dated 8/15/2011 9:56:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
veetus@... writes:

> The actuals are in and "Rise" made $ 27 million this weekend

</HTML>

Continuing my discussion from the "Pre-Review Comments about 'Rise' (For Those Who've Already See..." thread:

James King: "Reality Check: 3-D *is* the future for cinemas, home theaters and TVs. 3-D TV is already a reality."

MLCCougar: "And from what I've read, 3-D TVs aren't going over that well... I think 3-D TV will go the way of DIVX...

HDTV was a long time in coming, too; however, the arrival of HDTV makes 3-D TV all the more accessibly do-able. What's more, sports programming will serve as the vanguard for the 3-D TV revolution. Once enough 3-D programming and DVDs are available, then 3-D TV will incrementally take off.

In the meantime, though, you can settle for the next-best thing to real 3-D: Pulfrich Dimensional 3-D, which is not the "Coming at ya" sort of 3-D but more akin to what I would call View-Master style of
dimensional 3-D. The Pulfrich style of 3-D glasses especially works with movement on the screen left to right or right to left and is great for some sporting events like football and hockey.

Currently, the Rainbow Symphony 3-D Glasses Company is offering one complimentary pair of Pulfrich 3-D Glasses at no charge. Simply send them a self-addressed 44-cent-stamped evelope to: Rainbow Symphony, Inc.; 6860 Canby Ave.; Suite 120; Reseda, California 91335. Specify that you want the *Pulfrich 3D TV Glasses - Gray/Clear Lenses.*

Special Note: When you watch regular TV with your Pulfrich 3-D glasses OR take them to the cinema to watch a 2-D movie with, put them on and close your eyes for one minute in order to allow your eyes to adjust properly. (At the movies, it's best done during previews.)

The casting of Freida Pinto in and of itself seems more like a subtle tribute to the original "Planet of the Apes" because she resembles POTA's own Linda Harrison.

I have finally seen it...going to see it one more time this Saturday.

On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 8:54 PM, <Haristas@...> wrote:

So has everyone here seen RISE now or what?

Just askin'

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Jeff K.: "Rupert Wyatt went pretty in depth about his ideas for the sequel to "Rise of the POTA" with Ed Gross

> http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/apecentral/news/?a=43720

"And has been repeating it elsewhere

> http://www.aintitcool.com/node/50723

"It would be set about 8 years after 'Rise' and follow the further adventures of Caesar (and maybe Will). He talks about the next generation of apes being young soldiers in a 'Full Metal Jacket' type of scenario ('that kind of urban environment not dissimilar to Western forces going into Baghdad. Remember when the soldiers were finding gold telephones in Hussein's home? It would be the same way that the apes would understand our species through what we've created'. He also has the idea that maybe the humans have to move underground a la '12 Monkeys' because of the situation established in 'Rise' (>cough!<). This could certainly be seen as the beginning of what became the mutants (Wyatt says this universe is a direct prequel to the Heston film). But more interestingly, it would give the apes free reign over our old stuff, buildings, etc. In essence,
what Boulle's original novel was like, where the apes just basically replaced us..... Anyway, Wyatt's idea also sounds very 'Battle' (as 'Rise' was 'Conquest'): 'Whereas the story of the first film plays out as a fairy tale, the next film will play out as a Shakespearean sci-fi drama where you'll have Caesar as the leader of this revolution, but Koba would be the one leading his own troops wanting to wipe out humans in a genocide. But Caesar is more conflicted, and maybe Caesar needs Koba's assistance in terms of the conflict. And Maurice is his advisor and he's telling him to combine forces. Caesar needs the allegiance of the two, although he doesn't believe in what Koba believes in, which is complete genocide'. Koba is the nasty medical experiment vet who pushes the helicopter off the bridge in 'Rise'. His relationship with Caesar sounds like that of Aldo in 'Battle'. Maurice is the sign language orangutan who could be
the smart Virgil type. If the humans have to go underground because of 'that thing', Wyatt envisions them wearing gas masks on the surface, and says, 'In a way, that would dehumanize them and would make us REALLY follow the apes. That's what interests me. This shouldn't be the apes as our enemy, this should be about the idea of a
whole new civilization coming into being'."

On the contrary, I think it's quite possible for there to be a faction among the apes who considers humans to be an enemy to be extermiated altogether as well as a faction among the humans who scapegoat the escaped apes as the cause of the bio-holocaust and wants to target the apes for extermination as well.

It also stands to reason that if researcher Will Rodman survives that he would seek the apes to request their aid in saving humanity by asking them for blood samples to study in order to discover a possible solution for the continuing bio-holocaust. Think what a moral quandary that would put Caesar in since he essentially is a bridge between both humans and apes.

I really would expect that Maurice the orangutang's character might develop into that of a more Machiavellian ape who'd be much more likely to secretly side with Korba, the vengeful experimental-lab chimp vet, while publicly pretending to defer to Caesar's rule. After all, since it's the orangutangs who ran things in the original "Planet of the Apes", it's the orangutangs who've got to do something dramatic behind the scenes during this prehistory phase in order to emerge later as the de-facto ruling powers.

That's right: Rise's Caesar must be eventually be de-throned if you're going to develop a future more like that of the original "Planet of the Apes". Some orangutang leader must subplant Caesar.

What's more, as both the "Life After People" book and the History Channel TV series make perfectly clear, the post-human-dominated world would be subject to a toxic soup of chemical and radioactive pollution. So, the apes do need some human mentors to guide them if they themselves are to survive in that post-bio-holocaust world. (The radioactive fallout would not be from bombs but from nuclear plants going into meltdown mode.)

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Is Will Rodman a good guy or a bad guy in RISE? Is he a male Zira, with a bit of Armando and MacDonald thrown in? I'm actually leaning towards him being a bad guy.John, Scrolls.

In his FANGORIA interview, Rupert Wyatt says the portrayal of gorillas as violent was one misconception he wanted to redress.But, for me,the gorillas in Conquest are the purest victims---I've always seen them as having been brutalised into violence because they were the biggest and strongest, and so attracted the most abuse.This was something MR Comics brought out well in Revolution.The novel and comic adaptations of Conquest really show Aldo the gorilla as the poster boy for brutality towards Apes and maybe, as a species, gorillas never, ever forgot,with their outlook and personalities warped forever? John, Scrolls.

James King: "The casting of Freida Pinto in and of itself seems more like a subtle tribute to the original 'Planet of the Apes' because she resembles POTA's own Linda Harrison."

Jeff K.: "They named one of the secondary characters Linda and the Gen-Sys coffee shop is the Nova Café in her honor."

Yes, but those fleetingly subtle and passing mentions aren't so strikingly noticeable as the "Va-va-va-voom!" resemblance of Freida Pinto to Linda Harrison.