> Hey everybody
>
> If you are contacting me privately for the next couple of days

> direct your mails to my cyberone address.
>
> Michael
>

> I din't say it was! I said the TARDIS was!
>
> Michael

> -----Original Message-----
> From: James [JamesA1102@a...]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:45 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Brent's ship
>
>
> OK So what do Brent's ship and a tardis have in common?

> Precisely.
>
> If you try to match up the dimensions inside and out, it just does not work.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 7/1/2004 10:33:36 PM Central Standard Time,
> Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
>
> > Precisely.
> >
> > If you try to match up the dimensions inside and out, it just
does not work.
>
> Remember, we're talking about Brent's ship here, not Taylor's...
There is
> nothing in BENEATH that indicates what Brent's ships size is
internally... He is
> never shown in it, only crawling out of it. So to say that the
> internal/external dimensions don't match isn't true.
>
> As far as Taylor's ship goes, his is as large as it's interior
would
> indicate... You have to remember that only the nose is shown
sticking up out of the
> Dead Lake, and that there is supposed to be much more to it than
what's shown.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Will Hoover <will5967@v...> wrote:
> on 7/1/04 2:06 PM, Menluth at menluth@y... wrote:
>
> I assume that Eastman's treatment for POTA is out there somewhere.
> The author of article I referred to seemed to have read the complete
> document.
> Here's the link to Flynn's article "FROM BOOK TO SCRIPT TO SCREEN:
> VISUALIZING PLANET OF THE APES" By John L. Flynn
> http://www.towson.edu/~flynn/apes.html"
>
> On the trail of lost astronauts,
> Menluth.
>
>
> http://www.towson.edu/~flynn/apes.html"
>
> Uuuhhhhh.... I'm in the process of reading Flynn's article because
I
> followed the link above. The only problem is that so far, it is a
carbon
> copy of Russo, Landsman and Gross' POTA Revisited....
>
> Here's an excerpt from Flynn's article:
>
> THE ORIGINAL NOVEL MONKEY PLANET
>
> La planete des singes, a witty, philosophical tale belonging
properly
> with Karel Capek and other social satirists of the day, was first
published
> in 1963. The idea of a world where apes had evolved into an
intelligent
> society and where human were hunted or enslaved was hardly a new
one. Both
> Swift and Huxley had imagined similar worlds, but Boulle's ironic
yet
> compassionate message, pinpointing many of the problems he saw in
his world,
> struck a raw nerve.
>
> Here's an excerpt from Revisted:
>
> MONKEY PLANET
>
> La planete des Singes, a witty, philosophical tale that fits in
nicely with
> Karel Capek and other social satirists of the day, was first
published in
> 1963. The idea of a world where apes had evolved into an
intelligent
> society and where humans were hunted or enslaved was hardly a new
one, but
> Boulle's ironic yet compassionate message, pinpointing many of the
problems
> he saw in the world, struck a raw nerve.
>
> I immediately noticed a striking similarity because I just got
finished
> re-reading POTA Revisted. Is there anybody out there who can
explain this
> to me?
>
> Will

> I immediately noticed a striking similarity because I just got

> re-reading POTA Revisted. Is there anybody out there who can

> to me?
>
> Will

> They're both bigger on the inside than they are on the outside...
>
> G
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: James [JamesA1102@a...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 29, 2004 2:45 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Brent's ship
> >
> >
> > OK So what do Brent's ship and a tardis have in common?

> Oi! Sparky!
>
> Where were you for the 1st official UK POTA fan club get-together.

>
> Dave B

> Yes I agree I am talking about Taylor's ship here.

> I couldn't agree more! I recently saw the newest Time Machine

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Will Hoover <will5967@v...> wrote:
I recently saw the newest Time Machine movie and marveled at how
much the film reminded me of Beneath. Will
>
Indeed, the parallels are striking. First, both stories begin with
time travel. Both involve discovery of an 'upsidedown world' where
evolution has gone awry. both stories feature two primary societies:
one that has survived aboveground after a worldwide devastation took
place, and another below ground that possesses greater intellectual
powers than those above.

The above-dwelling Eloi in Time Machine are docile, simple people,
and are hunted by the underdwelling Morlocks. This is where the two
stories differ, since the Morlocks are at once violent hunters of
the Eloi above, and the brainy ruling class. However, there are
different kinds of Morlocks, reminding me of the different castes
represented in Ape City. The hunter Morlocks correspond neatly to
the Gorilla Army, while the ruling Morlocks with the highly evolved
large brains could correspond both to the Orangutan elders and the
Mutants.

Both the Eloi and the Morlocks were once the same human species, but
have evolved separately for thousands of years. In Time Machine, the
hero, like Brent, must descend into the underground city and finds a
way to destroy the Morlock hive.

Dave B. has pointed out too that in the new Time Machine, the hunt
scene seems to owe much to the hunt scene from PA68. Could it be
that Time Machine influenced Beneath, and PA68 turned around to
influence the new Time Machine? Interesting.

David.

>>> O.K.,but why does Mr. Flynn's article read so very, very, very,

> Will

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Will Hoover <will5967@v...> wrote:
recently saw the newest Time Machine movie and
> marveled at how much the film reminded me of Beneath. Will
>
We're not the only ones. Some time back (no longer in the current
archives), I think I copied in a whole movie review of the Time
Machine from when it was released. Peter Howell of the Toronto Star
hated the film, but his review was quite entertaining, and made
several references to how bad the film was, because it reminded him
so much of Beneath the Planet of the Apes. I couldn't find the
article on the net anymore, but my search did come up with one quote
from Howell's article:

"a very bad remake of Planet of the Apes. No, it's worse than that.
It's Beneath the Planet of the Apes!"

Well, there's no accounting for taste, but it does show that even a
non-POTA fan was able to see the similarities.

Menluth.

> This is the news I got as an affiliate from Sideshow:
>> *This is one of the most memorable icons from The Planet of the

>

> Rob or should I write Ron,
>
> Thankyou for your kindly welcome. Sometimes it is depressing to

>
> Patrick
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Menluth" <menluth@y...> wrote:
> We're not the only ones. Some time back (no longer in the current
> archives), I think I copied in a whole movie review of the Time
> Machine from when it was released. Peter Howell of the Toronto
Star
> hated the film, but his review was quite entertaining, and made
> several references to how bad the film was, because it reminded
him
> so much of Beneath the Planet of the Apes. I couldn't find the
> article on the net anymore, but my search did come up with one
quote
> from Howell's article:
>
> "a very bad remake of Planet of the Apes. No, it's worse than
that.
> It's Beneath the Planet of the Apes!"
>
> Well, there's no accounting for taste, but it does show that even
a
> non-POTA fan was able to see the similarities.
>
> Menluth.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Menluth" <menluth@y...> wrote:
> Ho James!
> I don't know if anyone commented on your own version of a
crossover
> story between PA68 and 2001: A Space Odyssey. In fact, I have
> clicked on the group's main page several times and didn't notice
> until now that Taylor is looking out the spacecraft's window, only
> to see David Bowman's elongated ship and spherical bridge heading
> staight for him! Nice work.
>
> Did I read somewhere that William Creber or the producers of PA68
> had tried to contact the folks creating 2001 to consult about how
> best to portray the apes, only to be refused information, because
> the 2001 people saw their film and PA68 as competitors? Am I
making
> this up or did I get this from somewhere?
>
> Menluth.

> When I was starting to read the Flynn exerpt, I ran across this
> characterization of one of the Monkey Planet space explorers:
>
> "Levain, a misanthrope, "

>
> He WAS dead, not buried alive. Even Prefect Veska says that he

> dead.

> Firstly I will accept that Jones was dead (the posted version
> of the script makes that quiet clear), but for the sake of
> discussion let us assume that he was not dead but in fact still
> under the effects of a cryogenic slowdown.

> Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hight <snickertown@y...> wrote:
> It would be awesome if we could get boxes made before
> I ship out the Gideon figures. MEGO Mike may be the
> way to go. Neil's artwork wouldn't be ready unless you
> liked black and white, but I do have some Palitoy
> artwork that we could use in it's place, or we just
> use the MEGO style box. It's worth a try.
>
> Chris Hight
>
>
>

> Let us finally speculate that Jones came too before he was actually buried
> (we never saw a fresh mound of earth to indicate a grave). So if he is alive
> and not buried as we thought what happened? I will throw my own little
> musings down in a later post.

> Hi Chris,
> What was the (BENEATH) skipper's name? Did it appear in the

> David.

> spent all day on the group site {great job guys} n think I found

>
> 1 milos helmet on escape poster goes to escape ape news
>
> 2 2k1 poster page 2nd 0 in 2001 in box at bottom goes to pota

>
> 3 second A in character database title goes to mediacom slide show
>
> 4 last panel chap. 2 of comic scarecrow goes to beneath ape news
>
> 5 conquest box on go ape poster goes to future news
>
> 6 aldos nose on ape actors page goes to san simian sentenial
>
> 7 words air force one on 1st original card goes to icarus blueprint
>
> 8 words of the in title of game vid goes to the ape newspaper cover
>
> 9 word trailer on planet trailer page goes to production guide
>
> 10 m in great moments title goes to planet dvd chapter list
>
> that's 10 what do I win?
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "James" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 8:47 AM
Subject: [PotaDG] Marlon Brando RIP


> Just heard that Marlon Brando died at the age of 80. While he was
> never in a POTA film, he did appear with Kim Hunter in "A Street Car
> Named Desire", Ricardo Montalban in "Sayonara" and John Huston
> in "Candy".
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Menluth" <menluth@...>
>
> You're a keen reader, Will. I don't think I would have noticed that,
> but I read POTA Revisited over a year ago. I wonder which came
> first. Did the two authors share articles or chapters at some point?
> I might not press this one too far, since it would be nice to have
> either author join the group at some point! Both Flynn and Russo are
> big fans of POTA.
>
> David.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Lawless" <lawford42@...>
>
>
> When I first got involved in the original mailing list (back in 2001),
> Alex and I were in touch on a regular basis. I'm sure you'll all recall
> that he was fairly well involved with the group as well, and had a few
> different versions of a pretty kick-ass POTA site. At one point, he had
> sent me VHS copies of the entire RETURN series (which Hunter now has), a
> rarities tape, a copy of the extended BATTLE (from the Japanese LD), and
> some other Apes related stuff as well. He even helped me get my own copy
> of the Japanese LD Box Set off of eBay. As I recall, he sent me the tapes
> as a thank you for some things that I sent for him to include on his
> website (unfortunately, they were never included, and I'm also still
> trying to get them back). I do hear from him occasionally, but
> unfortunately nowhere near as much as I used to. It's sad in a way he's
> no longer involved, because he was a very dedicated POTA fan, and very
> creative in terms of putting together a website (as are the webmasters of
> most of the POTA sites I've seen over the years).
>
>
> Chris L.
>

>
>Hello,
>
>This is an automated email message to let you know that
>the_ansanaut <ansanaut@...> joined your PotaDG
>group.
>

> In the TV series, Virdon and Burke find an old copy of the Encylopedia
> Britannica that shows a picture of New York City in the year 2503, or
> 523 years after they left Earth, so the apocalypse hadn't happened at
> least until 2503 and probably later.

> He didn't appreciate Eric Greene getting credit for being first on the
> block, the "Behind" gig, etc.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: mlccougar@...

That's why I "laughed" when you said that Greene's text commentary was
supposedly the best "extra" on the new 35th Anniversary DVD... I mean you got
experts out there like Russo, and yes, Monteith, and here's this guy who had
authored a compilation of dreamt up unseen metaphors getting himself included in the
things where people like Russo and others should have been all along.... I
said it along time ago that someone like Joe should have been the one on Behind,
and I'm glad to see that he feels the same way...

> ***Your point is taken, but since Russo didn't do a commentary, I think
> Greene's is the best on the DVD. Some might say Goldsmith but I think Greene's
> has more interesting stuff. And it's the one with the fewest empty spaces.
> It's got a lot of stuff dealing with the movie, it isn't all allegory.***

> ***As for "Behind", I think the actual POTA people and the narration
> covered what Russo would have. Greene adds another layer to the discussion. But
> it's true, Russo felt ripped off by not being asked to participate. And he feels
> his book being released at the same time as POTA2001 hurt his sales. It's
> amazing with all the entertainment topics under the sun that get books written
> about them, that no publisher in the '90's thought "POTA Revisited" was worth
> while. It only barely got published because of POTA2001.***

> hello there fellow ape fans, i'm new to this club ! i have some

> ----------
> From: Neil[SMTP:NFOSTER@...]
> Sent: Saturday, July 03, 2004 9:46:57 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Whitty (not) on the Planet of the Apes (DG)
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

> It has been interesting, to me, to document the various astronaut
> deaths in the series.

> Who has this? I do. It's all about POTA and other simian comics.

> Who has this? I do. It's all about POTA and other simian

>

----- Original Message -----
From: taebokitti@...
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 2:06 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: G'Day!


Just protrude your bottom teeth,Helen! My computer has been in the shop for a
week! It's great to be back! Elaine

----- Original Message -----
From: "sparkytb2005" <sparkytb@...>
>
> ++ No. The series died because of economics. The casting couch
> stories are not completely untypical but they are a little
> sensationalistic. The vast majority of people working in the film
> and tv business are just hard-working, conscientious professionals -
> but they're not "Hollywood Babylon" material -- and that does not
> sell books.
>
> Mark T-B
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Menluth" <menluth@...>


> There must have been even a brief 'bible' or continuity document for
> writers of the TV series. Alas, it does not seem ever to have
> surfaced. One variant I am trying to confirm is what is the official
> name of the government in Central City? I think it is most commonly
> referred to as the High Council. In the novelizations, however, it
> is consistantly called the Supreme Council of Elders, or variations
> on that (Sup. Counc. or Counc. of Elders). The Supreme Council of
> Elders is also a name used for one of the government bodies in the
> Return animated series.
>
> Is the term Supreme Council used in the TV episodes at all, or are
> they consistent with High Council? Perhaps I have been overly
> influenced by reading the novels, but until recently I have been
> thinking that Sup. Counc. of Elders was the long, official version,
> while "High Council" was more of a common term used by apes for the
> group. Anyone remember hearing "Supreme Council of Elders" in the
> televised episodes themselves?
>
> Menluth.
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
> Just protrude your bottom teeth,Helen! My computer has been in the
shop for a
> week! It's great to be back! Elaine
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I think it's referred to as the High Council throughout the show.

> Eric Greene talked to him and he said he wrote all 4 novelizations during a
> hospital
> stay.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@...>

> John
>
> I have spoken to the people at Dark Horse, and unless they are lying, the
> only reason POTA was cancelled was because it flopped, and the reason they
> site for not ever wishing to produce another POTA series is that they took
a
> HUGE financial dive on the comics they did produce. They might be lying,
> but I don't think so.
>
> I take your point about the license, but I guarantee nobody will discuss
> this so we'll never know!
>
> As far as the license goes, I do know that a company (I won't say who in
> case I breach confidentiality) that produces POTA items has a deal with
Fox
> whereby they hand over a percentage of the profit to Fox after a line has
> been sold. That's the type of deal I am negotiating with Fox for the
> comics, but if another comic producing company wants to spare me from
> outting my family home on the line for POTA...well, yes, I'll jump at it.
>
> The way forward is great story and great art. And hopefully if a company
> does go forward with publishing, Fox will be fair with the license fee (as
> you might guess, it should be MUCH less when we are talking about a "dead"
> franchise with no current blockbuster movie hype!).
>
> Michael
>

----- Original Message -----
From: mlccougar@...

Yeah, I agree with you here... Off the top of my head, I can't think of any
time in any episode where they are referred to as anything but "The High
Council"...

Now, as to questions regarding titles: I have gone blank here, but I can't
think of any one time in any episode of Planet of the Apes where Urko is
actually referred to as "General"... I know in Return they call him by that title,
but I cannot think of one instance in the live series where he's called
General... Can anyone out there give a specific time where he is called "General"
Urko? Or is his "General' title something put on him by mistake, the same way
Councilor Zaius is mistakenly referred to as "Dr. Zaius" in marketing, the
novelizations, etc.?

----- Original Message -----
From: <mlccougar@...>
>
> I can believe that, and I think I have heard that too (maybe it was from
you
> in reference to what Greene told you...) Anyway, while I can believe he
wrote
> them while hospitalized, I often wonder why book number 4, "Lord of the
Apes"
> was published so much later than the others (1976 I think it was...) Did
> Greene get any info on that, or is it just that the book was published as
a last
> gasp attempt to cash in on POTA?

> I have this buried in a box somewhere. I'll dig it out when I get home from
> vacation and see how much of it is worth scanning.
>

----- Original Message -----
From: <mlccougar@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 12:52 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] Goldsmith commentary on the POTA DVD


> To Whitty and Krueger,
>
> I just rewatched PLANET with the Goldsmith commentary going, and after
> rewatching it, I can see where both of you were disappointed in it... You
are right,
> it is very short in length for a supposed "full length commentary"... It's
> not what it should have been, his commenting on each piece of music,
although at
> he he does do some specifics, like telling how they called the one piece
> PLANET's "love theme"...
>
> But, to whichever of you commented that it seemed like his commentary was
> just lifted from previous comments made, that I can't agree with... After
all, in
> there at one point he refers to the 35th Anniversary, so it probably was
> recorded for the anniversary DVD... Hopefully they will do better next
time if he
> does a commentary track for ESCAPE...
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> PLEASE DELETE THIS LINE AND EVERYTHING BELOW IT BEFORE RESPONDING. THANK
YOU.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

> I have never really questioned the General title, and it is so common
> elsewhere (Gen. Ursus, Gen. Aldo, Gen. Urko [Return]).

> I don't think anyone's ever said Goldsmith's commentary was lifted.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "the_ansanaut" <ansanaut@g...> wrote:
> In the TV series, Virdon and Burke find an old copy of the
Encylopedia
> Britannica that shows a picture of New York City in the year 2503,
or
> 523 years after they left Earth, so the apocalypse hadn't happened
at
> least until 2503 and probably later.
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
>
> RIGHT ON!!!! That's exactly what I say, and I believe the original
timeline
> (from which Cornelius and Zira came) also happened in the 2500's,
because if
> you recall in ESCAPE, they mention 500 years of slavery... "500"
years from
> "now" would be the 2500's...
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
>
> That's why I "laughed" when you said that Greene's text commentary
was
> supposedly the best "extra" on the new 35th Anniversary DVD... I
mean you got
> experts out there like Russo, and yes, Monteith, and here's this
guy who had
> authored a compilation of dreamt up unseen metaphors getting
himself included in the
> things where people like Russo and others should have been all
along.... I
> said it along time ago that someone like Joe should have been the
one on Behind,
> and I'm glad to see that he feels the same way...
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "apefish54" <apefish54@y...> wrote:
> hello there fellow ape fans, i'm new to this club & can i say it's
so
> cool to be anew member! hope to hear from other ape ape fans real
> soon! i have some thoughts / ideas on characters that would have
been
> cool figures for the medicom action figure series, & plenty of
> questions i would like to share / ask with other dg members.
> thankyou -apefish 54

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "the_ansanaut" <ansanaut@g...>

> > It has been interesting, to me, to document the various astronaut
> > deaths in the series.
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
>
> Now, as to questions regarding titles: I have gone blank here, but
I can't
> think of any one time in any episode of Planet of the Apes where
Urko is
> actually referred to as "General"... I know in Return they call
him by that title,
> but I cannot think of one instance in the live series where he's
called
> General... Can anyone out there give a specific time where he is
called "General"
> Urko? Or is his "General' title something put on him by mistake,
the same way
> Councilor Zaius is mistakenly referred to as "Dr. Zaius" in
marketing, the
> novelizations, etc.?
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "James" <JamesA1102@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 3:04 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] DVD Commentaries


> The best commentaries are when a few people are watching the movie
> together. If anyone has Superman I or some of James Bond movies they
> know the commentary track is hysterical.
> For Pota they should have combined Goldsmith with the others. There
> are so many blank spots in both, it all would have fit.
> Then for the second track get guys like Russo and Greene together
> watching the film.
>
>

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "the_ansanaut" <ansanaut@g...>

> > It has been interesting, to me, to document the various astronaut
> > deaths in the series.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "apefish54" <apefish54@y...> wrote:
> hello there fellow ape fans, i'm new to this club & can i say it's
so
> cool to be anew member! hope to hear from other ape ape fans real
> soon! i have some thoughts / ideas on characters that would have
been
> cool figures for the medicom action figure series, & plenty of
> questions i would like to share / ask with other dg members.
> thankyou -apefish 54

----- Original Message -----
From: <mlccougar@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, July 04, 2004 12:52 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] Goldsmith commentary on the POTA DVD


To Whitty and Krueger,

I just rewatched PLANET with the Goldsmith commentary going, and after
rewatching it, I can see where both of you were disappointed in it... You
are right, it is very short in length for a supposed "full length
commentary"... It's not what it should have been, his commenting on each
piece of music, although at he he does do some specifics, like telling how
they called the one piece PLANET's "love theme"...

But, to whichever of you commented that it seemed like his commentary was
just lifted from previous comments made, that I can't agree with... After
all, in there at one point he refers to the 35th Anniversary, so it
probably was recorded for the anniversary DVD... Hopefully they will do
better next
time if he does a commentary track for ESCAPE...

> For Pota they should have combined Goldsmith with the others. There
> are so many blank spots in both, it all would have fit.
> Then for the second track get guys like Russo and Greene together
> watching the film.
>

>

> Exactly, I can't remember one time in the series that Zaius was
> refered to as Doctor or Urko as General. I think the confusion is
> because Zaius wore the same costume as Dr. Zaius and Urko wore the
> same glyphs as Ursus and Aldo.

> I like it when they specifically comment on what's on screen.

> In addition, the ruins of San Francisco in 'The Trap' are clearly from the
> 20th Century, not the 26th.