I totally agree.

While I would also like to see this on the big screen with Terry Gilliam
directing, but realistically the small screen would be more likely (I would
also be happy with an animated version!).

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Arwen Undomiel [elfgirl_06@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 11:22 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Sci-Fi Channel rocking


That would be exciting to see a good adaptation of Boulle's novel.
It was what really got me interested in PotA.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> If anyone has any contacts at the Sci-Fi Channel could you please

email me,

> either on the group or privately.
>
> Michael







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> I totally agree.
> While I would also like to see this on the big screen with Terry

Gilliam directing, but realistically the small screen would be more
likely (I would also be happy with an animated version!).

-- Actually an animated version would probably be the best way to go
with Boulle's novel, it makes a lot of sense and would certainly cut
down on production costs.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Arwen Undomiel" <elfgirl_06@c...>
wrote:

> That would be exciting to see a good adaptation of Boulle's novel.
> It was what really got me interested in PotA.

-- Speaking of Boulle's novel, weren't we doing a 'mass reading' of
this book a while back. Whatever happened to that? How far did we
get?

Neil

I understand SS#9 is now available? Please give us the specifics.
How do we get in line to receive this issue? To whom do we send the
money, and how much do we send?

--Helen

We got to chapter one.

We also got a couple of cool pictures of Merou's ship.

I'd like to continue to get "back to our roots" if others are interested?

We could start with a quick summary of Chapter 1 and then read through
chapter 2 and comment/seek artistic representations.

Comments?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil [nfoster@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:24 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Sci-Fi Channel rocking


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Arwen Undomiel" <elfgirl_06@c...>
wrote:

> That would be exciting to see a good adaptation of Boulle's novel.
> It was what really got me interested in PotA.

-- Speaking of Boulle's novel, weren't we doing a 'mass reading' of
this book a while back. Whatever happened to that? How far did we
get?

Neil







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Non-Apes content- scroll down if you're not interested.

I need some help from my fellow Apes fans (especially in Europe). There's
a European promotional 4 track
CD single by a group called Zeromancer entitled 'Clone Your Lover' that I
have had absolutely no luck in tracking down. The closest I've come is a
feature on amazon.de where you can list what you'd be willing to pay
should someone put a used one up for sale. The fact that it was a
promotional-only release makes it a little bit more difficult to track
down than a commercially released CD single, but I don't think it's
impossible either. My guess would be it'd turn up at a sellers
convention/music fair or something similar. So if ANY of you guys happen
to be out browsing through dealer tables in the future, please keep an
eye out for me. I will definitely make it worth your while.

Thanks much!!

Chris L.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all,

Just a quick update to let everyone know that a letter to Film Score
Monthly regarding full soundtrack releases for ESCAPE FROM THE PLANET OF
THE APES and for both television series has been submitted. The guy who
runs FSM (Lukas Kendall) is pretty good about answering letters quickly,
so I'll certainly keep everyone posted as soon as I hear back from him.
What would be helpful right now would be if someone could tell me the
difference between the two bootleg versions that have come out so far.
Specifically, if either one has music that isn't contained on the other.
I'm referring to the 12 track CD released on the Pony Express "label",
and the 16 track version that recently started popping up on eBay. The
tracks on both discs have different titles, so I can't compare them that
way. I figure some Goldsmith fans could help out here?

Also, where there any other bootleg versions? And how does what's
released on either of the two aforementioned CDs compare in terms to what
was included on the Varese Sarabande PLANET release? The same music?
Different? A little bit of both?

More to come...


Chris L.

Hi Helen (ex-oosa Scrolls representative!).

Terry's announcement yesterday had a link to Scrolls ordering details too.

If you already received SS#8 and have PAID for it, SS#9 should automatically
come to you.

If you are a NEW subscriber you need to email John Roche (with "apes" in the
subject heading) and request a copy. Unless things have changed he will
send your copy and then you send payment when you receive it.

John, I know you are out there somewhere - say "Hi" to the hoardes and fill
them in on anything I might have missed.

Terry, to balance things up - how do you get Ape Chronicles? Do you have to
join the Fan Club or can you just buy single issues? (note, Terry's is the
original POTA Fan Club, mine is the "Official" Fan Club - difference is
there is no fee to join mine and of course you don't get a magazine
subscription etc. When I founded my Fan Club, Terry's - and Ape Chronicles
- were in hiaitus. I told Terry what I was doing and he was cool with it.
We don't "compete", quite the contrary actually, and we apologise for the
confusion!).

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: ape_mom [sand_hill_school@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:30 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Simian Scrolls #9


I understand SS#9 is now available? Please give us the specifics.
How do we get in line to receive this issue? To whom do we send the
money, and how much do we send?

--Helen







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would definitely be interested in doing that. That book is one of
my absolute favorites. The first six chapters fell out because of
constant use and abuse, but I'll find them. Sounds like a great idea
to get back to the original.

Kasey/Undomiel


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> We got to chapter one.
>
> We also got a couple of cool pictures of Merou's ship.
>
> I'd like to continue to get "back to our roots" if others are

interested?

>
> We could start with a quick summary of Chapter 1 and then read

through

> chapter 2 and comment/seek artistic representations.
>
> Comments?
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neil [nfoster@h...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:24 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Sci-Fi Channel rocking
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Arwen Undomiel" <elfgirl_06@c...>
> wrote:
> > That would be exciting to see a good adaptation of Boulle's

novel.

> > It was what really got me interested in PotA.
>
> -- Speaking of Boulle's novel, weren't we doing a 'mass reading'

of

> this book a while back. Whatever happened to that? How far did we
> get?
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That's OK I'll be posting a chapter per week on the group so you don't have
to go searching for the missing pages!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Arwen Undomiel [elfgirl_06@...]
Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 1:29 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Boulle's Novel


I would definitely be interested in doing that. That book is one of
my absolute favorites. The first six chapters fell out because of
constant use and abuse, but I'll find them. Sounds like a great idea
to get back to the original.

Kasey/Undomiel


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> We got to chapter one.
>
> We also got a couple of cool pictures of Merou's ship.
>
> I'd like to continue to get "back to our roots" if others are

interested?

>
> We could start with a quick summary of Chapter 1 and then read

through

> chapter 2 and comment/seek artistic representations.
>
> Comments?
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Neil [nfoster@h...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:24 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Sci-Fi Channel rocking
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Arwen Undomiel" <elfgirl_06@c...>
> wrote:
> > That would be exciting to see a good adaptation of Boulle's

novel.

> > It was what really got me interested in PotA.
>
> -- Speaking of Boulle's novel, weren't we doing a 'mass reading'

of

> this book a while back. Whatever happened to that? How far did we
> get?
>
> Neil
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is my understanding that SS#9 is currently at the print finishers being bound
and stitched. This issue should have been shipped around mid August but
there have been some complications that have delayed publication (Some
pages went missing in the post and ye Editor decided to re-locate his
business premises across town)

All those who recieved and paid for issue #8 will automatically recieve #9. All
those who then pay for #9 will automatically recieve #10 etc.

We know who you are :0)

Our very own Kass has kindly agreed to again supervise the distribution of #9
within the US so you're all in good hands. Any potential NEW subscribers
should contact Kass or John Roche asap.

As soon as Simian Scrolls #9 actually starts to ship there will be the usual
announcements.

Dave

Thanks, Michael. I will be waiting, then, for SS#9. Is Kass
handling the mailing of these?

--Helen


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> Hi Helen (ex-oosa Scrolls representative!).
>
> Terry's announcement yesterday had a link to Scrolls ordering

details too.

>
> If you already received SS#8 and have PAID for it, SS#9 should

automatically

> come to you.
>
> If you are a NEW subscriber you need to email John Roche

(with "apes" in the

> subject heading) and request a copy. Unless things have changed he

will

> send your copy and then you send payment when you receive it.
>
> John, I know you are out there somewhere - say "Hi" to the hoardes

and fill

> them in on anything I might have missed.
>
> Terry, to balance things up - how do you get Ape Chronicles? Do

you have to

> join the Fan Club or can you just buy single issues? (note,

Terry's is the

> original POTA Fan Club, mine is the "Official" Fan Club -

difference is

> there is no fee to join mine and of course you don't get a magazine
> subscription etc. When I founded my Fan Club, Terry's - and Ape

Chronicles

> - were in hiaitus. I told Terry what I was doing and he was cool

with it.

> We don't "compete", quite the contrary actually, and we apologise

for the

> confusion!).
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ape_mom [sand_hill_school@y...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:30 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Simian Scrolls #9
>
>
> I understand SS#9 is now available? Please give us the specifics.
> How do we get in line to receive this issue? To whom do we send

the

> money, and how much do we send?
>
> --Helen
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yup. Me, too, Michael. Give us our assignment so that we can begin
work!

--Helen


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Arwen Undomiel" <elfgirl_06@c...>
wrote:

> I would definitely be interested in doing that. That book is one of
> my absolute favorites. The first six chapters fell out because of
> constant use and abuse, but I'll find them. Sounds like a great

idea

> to get back to the original.
>
> Kasey/Undomiel
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
> <Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:
> > We got to chapter one.
> >
> > We also got a couple of cool pictures of Merou's ship.
> >
> > I'd like to continue to get "back to our roots" if others are
> interested?
> >
> > We could start with a quick summary of Chapter 1 and then read
> through
> > chapter 2 and comment/seek artistic representations.
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Neil [nfoster@h...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:24 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Sci-Fi Channel rocking
> >
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Arwen Undomiel" <elfgirl_06@c...>
> > wrote:
> > > That would be exciting to see a good adaptation of Boulle's
> novel.
> > > It was what really got me interested in PotA.
> >
> > -- Speaking of Boulle's novel, weren't we doing a 'mass reading'
> of
> > this book a while back. Whatever happened to that? How far did we
> > get?
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Dave. Thanks, John. Thanks, Kass.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster@b...> wrote:
> It is my understanding that SS#9 is currently at the print
finishers being bound
> and stitched. This issue should have been shipped around mid August
but
> there have been some complications that have delayed publication
(Some
> pages went missing in the post and ye Editor decided to re-locate
his
> business premises across town)
>
> All those who recieved and paid for issue #8 will automatically
recieve #9. All
> those who then pay for #9 will automatically recieve #10 etc.
>
> We know who you are :0)
>
> Our very own Kass has kindly agreed to again supervise the
distribution of #9
> within the US so you're all in good hands. Any potential NEW
subscribers
> should contact Kass or John Roche asap.
>
> As soon as Simian Scrolls #9 actually starts to ship there will be
the usual
> announcements.
>
> Dave

This should be fun and interesting. I found my missing pages...
well, almost all of them. I'm glad that other people want to
participate too.

Kasey/Undomiel

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> That's OK I'll be posting a chapter per week on the group so you

don't have

> to go searching for the missing pages!
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Arwen Undomiel [elfgirl_06@c...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 1:29 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Boulle's Novel
>
>
> I would definitely be interested in doing that. That book is one

of

> my absolute favorites. The first six chapters fell out because of
> constant use and abuse, but I'll find them. Sounds like a great

idea

> to get back to the original.
>
> Kasey/Undomiel
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
> <Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:
> > We got to chapter one.
> >
> > We also got a couple of cool pictures of Merou's ship.
> >
> > I'd like to continue to get "back to our roots" if others are
> interested?
> >
> > We could start with a quick summary of Chapter 1 and then read
> through
> > chapter 2 and comment/seek artistic representations.
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Neil [nfoster@h...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:24 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Sci-Fi Channel rocking
> >
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Arwen Undomiel"

<elfgirl_06@c...>

> > wrote:
> > > That would be exciting to see a good adaptation of Boulle's
> novel.
> > > It was what really got me interested in PotA.
> >
> > -- Speaking of Boulle's novel, weren't we doing a 'mass reading'
> of
> > this book a while back. Whatever happened to that? How far did

we

> > get?
> >
> > Neil
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

amazingly, i just found this book at a thrift store yesterday.
btw, i have been on vacation a few days.
are we having a group reading?
rob/ron
oosa

ape_mom <sand_hill_school@...> wrote:
Yup. Me, too, Michael. Give us our assignment so that we can begin
work!

--Helen


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Arwen Undomiel" <elfgirl_06@c...>
wrote:

> I would definitely be interested in doing that. That book is one of
> my absolute favorites. The first six chapters fell out because of
> constant use and abuse, but I'll find them. Sounds like a great

idea

> to get back to the original.
>
> Kasey/Undomiel
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
> <Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:
> > We got to chapter one.
> >
> > We also got a couple of cool pictures of Merou's ship.
> >
> > I'd like to continue to get "back to our roots" if others are
> interested?
> >
> > We could start with a quick summary of Chapter 1 and then read
> through
> > chapter 2 and comment/seek artistic representations.
> >
> > Comments?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Neil [nfoster@h...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 12:24 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Sci-Fi Channel rocking
> >
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Arwen Undomiel" <elfgirl_06@c...>
> > wrote:
> > > That would be exciting to see a good adaptation of Boulle's
> novel.
> > > It was what really got me interested in PotA.
> >
> > -- Speaking of Boulle's novel, weren't we doing a 'mass reading'
> of
> > this book a while back. Whatever happened to that? How far did we
> > get?
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

---------------------------------
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go vegetarian!


---------------------------------

I am interested in going back to reading the novel and discussing it. We
could do a chapter a week maybe. Elaine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey Greg.....I've got this activity book...The
contents are pretty much the same...single line
drawings to color...word puzzles...mazes...there is a
cool drawing of Z&C in the middle page. The book is
larger than the coloring books (12 1/2 x 10 3/4) so
unfortunately it will not fit on my scanner. The
biggest difference though, is the 2nd page and the
next too the last page contain color punch outs of Ape
City and it's denizens. 2 gorillas, an orang, a chimp
male and a female chmp with 3 kids and a solitary kid
chimp. And on the back cover is a punch out chimp mask
that you can attach a string too. I'll send a pic of
the cover...maybe I can scan the punchouts.....but the
rest is the same as the other books.
Tim

--- Greg Plonowski <urko3085@...> wrote:

> I also
> know there's at least one activity book that I don't
> have (with faces of 4 characters in circles on the
> cover). Given the amount of duplication among all
> the books I can't be sure that there would be much
> new material so I haven't tried very hard to hunt it
> down. Perhaps someone who has it could compare the
> contents to the books already on Hunter's site.

I have put a pic of the Large Activity book in the
Collectibles folder under Photos in the DG. I'll try
and scan the punch outs later.
Tim

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/potadg/vwp?.dir=/Collectibles&.src=gr&.dnm=Large+Activity+book.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/potadg/lst%3f%26.dir=/Collectibles%26.src=gr%26.view=t

No time like the present.....now in the Collectibles
folder under Photos...the Large activity book back
cover and two pages of punch outs. Sorry for the
lighting!

Tim

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Tim Parati <apefan23@y...> wrote:

> I have put a pic of the Large Activity book in the
> Collectibles folder under Photos in the DG. I'll try
> and scan the punch outs later.
> Tim

That pic on the cover of "Taylor" looks more like Jim Franciscus.
In fact, it looks even more like a shop dummy I saw in a clothing
store display today...

MT-B

ONE

Jinn and Phyllis were spending a wonderful holiday, in space, as far away as
possible from the inhabited stars.

In those days interplanetary voyages were an everyday occurrence, and
interstellar travel not uncommon. Rockets took tourists to the wondrous
sites of Sirius, or financiers to the famous stock exchanges of Arcturus and
Aldebaran. But Jinn and Phyllis, a wealthy leisured couple, were
distinguished in their cosmos for their originality and a few grains of
poetry. They wandered over the universe for their pleasure-by sail.

Their ship was a sort of sphere with an envelope-the sail which was
miraculously fine and light and moved through space propelled by the
pressure of light-radiation. Such a machine, left to its own devices in the
vicinity of a star (though far enough away for the field of gravity not to
be too powerful), will always move in a straight line in the opposite
direction to the star; but since Jinn and Phyllis' stellar system contained
three suns that were relatively close to one another, their vessel received
rays of light along three different axes. Jinn had therefore conceived an
extremely ingenious method of steering. His sail was lined inside with a
series of black blinds that he could roll up or unroll at will, thus
changing the effect of the light-pressure by modifying the reflecting power
of certain sections. Furthermore, this elastic envelope could be stretched
or contracted as the navigator pleased. Thus, when Jinn wanted to increase
his speed, he gave it the biggest diameter possible. It would then take the
blasts of radiation on an enormous surface and the vessel would hurtle
through space at a furious velocity, which made his mate Phyllis quite
dizzy. He would also be overcome by vertigo, and they would then cling
passionately to each other, their gaze fixed on the mysterious and distant
depths to which their flight propelled them. When, on the other hand, they
wanted to slow down, Jinn pressed a button. The sail would shrink until it
became a sphere just big enough to contain them both, packed tightly
together. The effect of the light became negligible, and this minute bubble,
reduced to nothing more than its own inertia, seemed motionless, as though
suspended in the void by an invisible thread. The young couple would spend
rapturous idle hours in this reduced universe, erected on their own scale
and for them alone, which Jinn compared to a becalmed sailing ship and
Phyllis to the air bubble of the sea spider.

Jinn knew a number of other tricks, considered as the height of art by
sailing cosmonauts: for example, making use of the shadows of the planets
and certain satellites in order to change course. He imparted this skill to
Phyllis, who was now almost as accomplished as he himself and often more
daring. When she held the tiller, she would sometimes fire a broadside that
swept them right to the borders of the stellar system, heedless of the
resulting magnetic storm, which would start to upset the light-rays and to
shake their skiff like a cockleshell. On two or three occasions, waked up
with a start by the tempest, Jinn had had quite a struggle snatching the
tiller from her and, in order to run for shelter as quickly as possible,
starting the auxiliary rocket, which they made it a point of honor never to
use except in case of danger.

One day Jinn and Phyllis were lying side by side in the middle of their
spacecraft without a care in the world, making the most of their holiday by
exposing themselves to the rays of their three suns. Eyes closed, Jinn was
thinking only of his love for Phyllis. Phyllis lay stretched out on her
side, gazing at the immensity of the universe and letting herself be
hypnotized, as she often did, by the cosmic sensation of the void.

All of a sudden she came out of her trance, wrinkled her brow, and sat up.
An unusual flash of light had streaked across this void. She waited a few
seconds and saw a second flash, like a ray being reflected off a shiny
object. The cosmic sense she had acquired in the course of these cruises
could not deceive her. Moreover, Jinn, when it was pointed out to him,
agreed with her, and it was inconceivable that he should make a mistake in
this matter: a body sparkling in the light was floating through space, at a
distance they could not yet assess. Jinn picked up a pair of binoculars and
focused them on the mysterious object, while Phyllis leaned on his shoulder.

"It's not a very big object," he said. "It seems to be made of glass. . . .
No, let me look. It's drawing closer. It's going faster than we are. It
looks like. . ."

A puzzled expression came into his eyes. He lowered the binoculars, which
she at once snatched up.

"It's a bottle, darling."

"A bottle!"

She looked at it, in turn.

"Yes, it's a bottle. I can see it quite clearly. It's made of light-colored
glass. It's corked; I can see the seal. There's something white inside that
looks like paper-a message, obviously. Jinn, we’ve got to get hold of it!"

Jinn was of the same opinion and had already embarked on some skillful
maneuvers to place the sphere on the trajectory of the unusual body. He soon
succeeded and then reduced his own speed to enable it to catch up with him.
Meanwhile Phyllis donned her diving suit and made her way out of the sail by
the double trap door. There, holding onto a rope with one hand and
brandishing a long-handled scoop in the other, she stood in readiness to
retrieve the bottle.

It was not the first time they had come across strange bodies, and the scoop
had already been in use. Sailing at low speed, sometimes completely
motionless, they had enjoyed surprises and made discoveries that were
precluded to travelers by rocket. In her net Phyllis had already gathered up
remnants of pulverized planets, fragments of meteorites that had come from
the depths of the universe, and pieces of satellites launched at the outset
of the conquest of space. She was very proud of her collection; but this was
the first time they had come across a bottle, and a bottle containing a
message-of that she was certain. She trembled from head to foot with
impatience, gesticulating like a spider on the end of its thread as she
shouted down the telephone to her companion:

"Slower, Jinn. . . . No, a bit faster than that, it's going to pass us. . .
.. Starboard. . . . Now hard to port. . . . Hold it. . . . I've got it!"

She gave a triumphant cry and came back inside with her trophy.

It was a largish bottle and its neck had been carefully sealed.

A roll of paper could be seen inside.

"Jinn, break it open, hurry up!" Phyllis begged, stamping her foot.

Less impatient, Jinn methodically chipped off the sealing wax. But when the
bottle was thus opened, he saw that the paper was stuck fast and could not
be shaken out. He therefore yielded to his mate's entreaties and smashed the
glass with a hammer. The paper unrolled of its own accord. It consisted of a
large number of very thin sheets, covered with tiny handwriting. The message
was written in the language of the Earth, which Jinn knew perfectly, having
been partly educated on that planet.

An uncomfortable feeling, however, restrained him from starting to read a
document that had fallen into their hands in such an incongruous manner; but
Phyllis' state of excitement decided him. She was not so well acquainted
with the language of the Earth and needed his help.

"Jinn, please!"

He reduced the volume of the sphere so that it floated idly in space, made
sure that there was no obstacle in front of them, then lay down beside his
companion and began to read the manuscript.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah - let's!

I have just posted Chapter 1 again. Most of us have already read this last
time (and maybe Chapter 2 as well) but for those who have not please read
Chapter 1 and give us your thoughts.

Those who DID give your thoughts last time, please chime in again.

Neil, is your scetch of the ship still in our files?

Neil is actually doing some illustrating as we go that you should all find
interesting. I wonder if he is ready to have an attempt at Patrick's vision
of the ship (or if he even remembers)? Neil??? ;)

One comment I recall making is how this US version differs (ever so
slightly) from the Aussie translation. Elaione - you'd know about that ,
eh?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: ron kenner [brindlepit2002@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 5:19 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Boulle's Novel


amazingly, i just found this book at a thrift store yesterday.
btw, i have been on vacation a few days.
are we having a group reading?
rob/ron
oosa

ape_mom <sand_hill_school@...> wrote:
Yup. Me, too, Michael. Give us our assignment so that we can begin
work!

--Helen


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Arwen Undomiel" <elfgirl_06@c...>
wrote:

> I would definitely be interested in doing that. That book is one of
> my absolute favorites. The first six chapters fell out because of
> constant use and abuse, but I'll find them. Sounds like a great

idea

> to get back to the original.
>
> Kasey/Undomiel
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mike --

Do you have any control over the colour scheme on the site?

Those purples are making me feel ill. and when you go to "All
Messages" list, just keep it as plain as possible.

Ouch!!!

MT-B

That was Neil - he has been experimenting with Psychedellics
recently....he'll some down soon and realise!

I like the colours, man...they're GROOVY!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: sparkytb2005 [sparkytb@...]
Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:41 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] I have a headache


Mike --

Do you have any control over the colour scheme on the site?

Those purples are making me feel ill. and when you go to "All
Messages" list, just keep it as plain as possible.

Ouch!!!

MT-B







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Much appreciated Tim.

Hey, did you ever get to add the Coloring Pencils to your collection?

They would be very useful about now! ;)

Today I bought (at a very nice price) the Ahi Water Gun on card and the
Bagatelle Pinball in the packet. It was a good day!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Tim Parati[SMTP:APEFAN23@...]
> Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 8:52:46 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Coloring books
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

I have put a pic of the Large Activity book in the
Collectibles folder under Photos in the DG. I'll try
and scan the punch outs later.
Tim

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/potadg/vwp?.dir=/Collectibles
<http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/potadg/vwp?.dir=/Collectibles&.src
=gr&
..dnm=Large+Activity+book.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo
.com/
group/potadg/lst%3f%26.dir=/Collectibles%26.src=gr%26.view=t>
&.src=gr&.dnm=Large+Activity+book.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.grou
ps.y
ahoo.com/group/potadg/lst%3f%26.dir=/Collectibles%26.src=gr%26.view=t

Simian Scrolls #9 will start shipping in the next few days.

All those who recieved and paid for issue #8 have automatically been
reserved a copy of #9.

Our very own Kass has once again kindly agreed to supervise the distribution
of #9 within the US so you're all in good hands. Any potential NEW
subscribers (within the US) should contact Kass asap.

<valwp@ya hoo.com>

All European queries should be directed to John Roche

<mail@me diationhouse.com>

Dave

Scrolls will be shipped to me shortly from the UK, and you can order them from me, your friendly neighborhood Kassidy. Please hold off ordering until I post again about payment details, etc. Never mind I have to give out my address to all you crazies! I take my life in hand in service of Apes;0
Kass


---------------------------------

And I love you for doing it, Kass! On behalf of Apes crazies
everywhere, I thank you.

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Kassidy Rae <valwp@y...> wrote:
> Scrolls will be shipped to me shortly from the UK, and you can
order them from me, your friendly neighborhood Kassidy. Please hold
off ordering until I post again about payment details, etc. Never
mind I have to give out my address to all you crazies! I take my
life in hand in service of Apes;0
> Kass
>

hey-

i got back from a show monday night

found some good deals...

escape adaptation WITH record $5 USD

2 issues of the marvel curtis mag (nice shape) $5 each

one issue of the dark horse pota comic 50 cents.

so: there are still some good deals out there.

rob/ron



go vegetarian!


---------------------------------

Yeah..another examle of the Non-Heston taylor
merchandise!

--- sparkytb2005 <sparkytb@...> wrote:

>
> That pic on the cover of "Taylor" looks more like
> Jim Franciscus.
> In fact, it looks even more like a shop dummy I saw
> in a clothing
> store display today...
>
> MT-B
>
>

I do have the ColorVue Pencil Coloring set but I don't
think they shall come near the activity book! How much
was the water gun? I saw one on ebay recently and it
was just too much...

--- Michael Whitty <whitty@...> wrote:

> Much appreciated Tim.
>
> Hey, did you ever get to add the Coloring Pencils to
> your collection?
>
> They would be very useful about now! ;)
>
> Today I bought (at a very nice price) the Ahi Water
> Gun on card and the
> Bagatelle Pinball in the packet. It was a good day!
>
>
> Michael
>
>
> >
> > ----------
> > From: Tim Parati[SMTP:APEFAN23@...]
> > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 8:52:46 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Coloring books
> > Auto forwarded by a Rule
> >
> I have put a pic of the Large Activity book in the
> Collectibles folder under Photos in the DG. I'll try
> and scan the punch outs later.
> Tim
>
>

http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/potadg/vwp?.dir=/Collectibles

>

<http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/potadg/vwp?.dir=/Collectibles&.src

> =gr&
>

..dnm=Large+Activity+book.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.groups.yahoo

> .com/
>

group/potadg/lst%3f%26.dir=/Collectibles%26.src=gr%26.view=t>

>

&.src=gr&.dnm=Large+Activity+book.jpg&.view=t&.done=http%3a//photos.grou

> ps.y
>

ahoo.com/group/potadg/lst%3f%26.dir=/Collectibles%26.src=gr%26.view=t

>
>
>
>

Hello everyone! Kassidy here. The sales of Scrolls will proceed exactly as last time if you are within the US and Canada. I take payment up front, as opposed to sales in the UK- reason being that I have to pay out for your shipping from my own pocket, otherwise.

John Roche is sending out the magazines to me shortly, so I don't have them just yet, but if you want to go ahead and get the money to me that's fine. Just understand that I don't yet have them in my possession so you won't receive it right away.

I mail Scrolls out once a week as I receive payment.

So if you live in the US or Canada and wish to receive Scrolls #9, you need to send cash (wrap it up some way and please remember I won't be responsible for funds lost in the mail) or check, payable to Valerie Williams Parish.

Send it to:
Valerie Wms. Parish
1501 Chicago Ave.
Knoxville, TN 37917
USA

I'll announce when I receive the magazines from John Roche.

Oh, and I have a few pre-pays already, and I have record of them. No worries, I gotcha covered.

Kassidy



---------------------------------

Kass,

What's the price? I have a call out to John to see if
I'm on the list.

Chris Hight

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Hoknes <terryhoknes@s...> wrote:

> when is the first time in movie or tv show that the words HIGH

COUNCIL are used or mentioned ?

*** There is no "council" mentioned in "PLANET" -- just the Tribunal,
a legal proceeding ostensibly for the purpose of "seeking the truth"
about Taylor, presided over by the "President of the Academy".

In "BENEATH", Ursus gives his speech before the "Citizens' Council",
in the amphitheater divided into 3 clusters of Chimpanzees, Gorillas,
and Orangutans. Obviously, it isn't an elite "High Council", since
the entire tiered amphitheater is filled to capacity with Apes. It is
a council of "citizens", rather than their most highly-placed
governmental personnel. Amongst the members of this "Citizens'
Council" are Zira and Cornelius who, at this time, are (in Zaius'
words) "two psychologists" -- Zira being an "animal psychologist" and
Cornelius, perhaps, being a standard psychologist, falling back on
his college "minor" degree in Psychology, since he ain't allowed to
be a practising Archaeologist after his heretical forays into the
Forbidden Zone...

In "BATTLE", there is a similar "council" -- with Chimpanzees,
Orangutans, and Gorillas -- overseen by Caesar, with his wife/queen
and son/heir at his sides. The gorillas storm out of this council
when Caesar allows the humans to join it, so that the Apes could
benefit from their help in preparing against any possible attack from
the Forbidden City.

But the words "HIGH COUNCIL" are used FIRST only in the pilot of the
TV show. Virdon & Burke ask Farrow about the government, and after
Farrow first mentions the Prefect (Veska, Galen's 2nd cousin on his
mother's side), he widens the field to mention "the High Council". He
also laughs bitterly at the idea of there being "Humans on the High
Council?! Humans are NOTHING -- they've ALWAYS been nothing!" etc.

>
> what is your assumption about how many ape "cities" there might be

across the USA

> is Zaius' ape city really important in the scheme of things or is

just the one community that the astronauts just happened to find ??

*** Hmmm... Well, my assumption is that for the most part, during the
TV show era (circa 3085), there is really only one major city --
Central City -- with several dozen villages at various locations
distant from the centralized capitol. Each village is run by a
Prefect (like Veska in Chalo, or Barlow in Kaymak). The impression I
get from the TV show is that the Ape Civilization in 3085 is not
spread out across the entire USA. The "world" over which the Apes
rule is rather limited in scope -- the fastest means of
transportation is by horse, and it would be difficult to keep any
sort of control over an overly large territory without some faster
means of sending troops to quell human uprisings, etc. Urko would
have a number of strategically-placed garrisons dotting the map, so
that no matter where in the "world" one might be, there's always a
squad of gorilla soldiers near enough to gallop and wallop.
Presumably, messages would be sent from garrison-to-garrison via the
heliograph devices, like the one seen in "THE TRAP" -- where
the "signal operator" flashes the light-reflecting dish using a Morse-
code-like code (not all that different in principle from the system
used in "RETURN OF THE KING" where the signal fires are lit, from
mountaintop-to-mountaintop).

Zaius' ape city -- and, by this, I think you're referring to Central
City -- IS really important, at least to the Apes and especially its
controlling body, as far as I'm concerned. The "astronauts" you refer
to, I'm guessing, are Virdon and Burke (and not Taylor & Brent). And
they didn't just "happen" to find this one community; their spaceship
landed there while under some sort of computer control. Jones had
activated an "Emergency Homing Device" to get them from Alpha
Centauri back to the Sol System/Earth/America. Interestingly enough,
of ALL the places they could possibly land a ship on Planet Earth,
Virdon's ship lands in the SAME region of the SAME continent (North
America) where -- just over 10 years earlier -- a DIFFERENT spaceship
had landed carrying "as-tro-nauts" with independent notions and
little handgrenades, etc. If Virdon's ship had happened to land in
the Falkland Islands, or on Iceland (etc), then it would've been a
very very different set of circumstances. But they landed near enough
to where a previously-landed spaceship had landed... and maybe
there's a reason that is so.

Consider: Burke doesn't remember "what happened" to them; either he
passed out while the ship was at Alpha Centauri, or he suffered some
sort of memory loss while en route to Earth after the Emergency
Homing Device kicks in. Virdon remembers that they were approaching
Alpha Centauri, ran into trouble, and told Jones to activate the
EHD... and that's about ALL he remembers.

So how did their ship land? Was it programmed to land at certain
geodetic coordinates? How, if the astronauts are either dead (Jones)
or unconscious (Virdon & Burke), could the ship's computer KNOW where
it was landing? After 1100 years away from Earth, any satellites that
had been in orbit in the late 20th Century would've had their orbits
decay, sending them into the atmosphere to burn up like Mir did a few
years back, LONG before the year 3085 rolled around... so it's
unlikely that their ship, back in near-Earth space, would be able to
access any orbiting satellite data for their navigational computer.
How did their ship know to land where it did land?

Perhaps it was under some sort of "remote guidance control". Perhaps
there was one survivor of the previous spaceship incident -- one
person who was NOT killed by Urko, who managed to escape somehow and
evade the Apes. Perhaps he (or she) had a way of monitoring radio
signals, and noticed that there was an approaching spaceship on March
21st, 3085 -- having appeared in Earth's sphere of gravitational
influence from outta nowhere when Virdon's ship dewarped its Hasslein
Drive...

Maybe this lone survivor purposely used a radio-telemetry computer of
his/her own to gain control of Virdon's ship as it fell towards
Earth... and remotely guided it to its landing near Chalo, perhaps
hoping to get to it before the Apes are able to find it and trash it.

Or it could just be a huge coincidence that two separate spaceships
could land in roughly the SAME geographical area, rather than
thousands of miles apart, on separate continents, and all that. Could
be. Sure. Mm-hm.

Naaaa!

Patrick

Kass....How much?

Tim


--- Kassidy Rae <valwp@...> wrote:

> Hello everyone! Kassidy here. The sales of Scrolls
> will proceed exactly as last time if you are within
> the US and Canada. I take payment up front, as
> opposed to sales in the UK- reason being that I have
> to pay out for your shipping from my own pocket,
> otherwise.
>
> John Roche is sending out the magazines to me
> shortly, so I don't have them just yet, but if you
> want to go ahead and get the money to me that's
> fine. Just understand that I don't yet have them in
> my possession so you won't receive it right away.
>
> I mail Scrolls out once a week as I receive payment.
>
> So if you live in the US or Canada and wish to
> receive Scrolls #9, you need to send cash (wrap it
> up some way and please remember I won't be
> responsible for funds lost in the mail) or check,
> payable to Valerie Williams Parish.
>
> Send it to:
> Valerie Wms. Parish
> 1501 Chicago Ave.
> Knoxville, TN 37917
> USA
>
> I'll announce when I receive the magazines from John
> Roche.
>
> Oh, and I have a few pre-pays already, and I have
> record of them. No worries, I gotcha covered.
>
> Kassidy
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------

I'll have to read both versians and compare. Elaine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The wording is slightly different in some parts. I noticed that
there were somethings that I'd either skipped over before or were
not added in the US version of the book.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
> I'll have to read both versians and compare. Elaine
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Patrick...I'm wondering if before each report, you go
and watch all 5 films and all TV episodes before you
write or do you just have this incredible memory! Your
essays are always well thought out and entertaining to
read!

Tim

I wonder the same thing. You're incredible, Patrick. And you spell
good, too.

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Tim Parati <apefan23@y...> wrote:
> Patrick...I'm wondering if before each report, you go
> and watch all 5 films and all TV episodes before you
> write or do you just have this incredible memory! Your
> essays are always well thought out and entertaining to
> read!
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Tim Parati <apefan23@y...> wrote:

> Kass....How much?

++I'm checking with John to make certain. it was $4, but I asked him
if he wants to go up a buck or something. Probably $4. I'll let you
know ASAP, and I apologize.

Helen! You're welcome!!:)
Kass

>

Patrick does a great job!
I always love reading his stuff



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You must read a LOT then Terry! ;)

Just kidding Patrick!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Hoknes [hoknes@...]
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 8:18 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: The "High Council" &c.


Patrick does a great job!
I always love reading his stuff







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Chris,

The Pony Express "Escape" bootleg seems to have all the music from the movie, though I'm no expert. I think the other bootleg is the one that includes music from another Goldsmith flick ("The Mephisto Waltz"?). The Varese Sarabande release is just a "sampler", in no way complete (for example, it doesn't have the "Shopping" track people like). Since the full "Escape" releases aren't legit, an FSM version would be in order, especially if they can dive into the archives like they did for "Beneath" and "Conquest". Maybe the others haven't sold out, but I assume they would be good sellers. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Lawless
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2004 7:31 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] FSM update


Hi all,

Just a quick update to let everyone know that a letter to Film Score
Monthly regarding full soundtrack releases for ESCAPE FROM THE PLANET OF
THE APES and for both television series has been submitted. The guy who
runs FSM (Lukas Kendall) is pretty good about answering letters quickly,
so I'll certainly keep everyone posted as soon as I hear back from him.
What would be helpful right now would be if someone could tell me the
difference between the two bootleg versions that have come out so far.
Specifically, if either one has music that isn't contained on the other.
I'm referring to the 12 track CD released on the Pony Express "label",
and the 16 track version that recently started popping up on eBay. The
tracks on both discs have different titles, so I can't compare them that
way. I figure some Goldsmith fans could help out here?

Also, where there any other bootleg versions? And how does what's
released on either of the two aforementioned CDs compare in terms to what
was included on the Varese Sarabande PLANET release? The same music?
Different? A little bit of both?

More to come...


Chris L.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , <veetus@e...> wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> The Pony Express "Escape" bootleg seems to have all the music from the

movie, though I'm no expert.

There are at least two other bootleg versions floating around (probably more).
One is identical to the Pony Express version but is coupled with the score for
'Damnation Alley'. Another is identical again to the Pony Express version but
also includes the suite or 'sampler' from the Varese Saraband expanded
original POTA score.

Dave

Hi all,

There's a magazine out called 'Scary Monsters'
(http://www.scarymonstersmag.com/), and at one point they ran a series of
five articles, one per issue on each of the five POTA films. I just found
out that back issues are available (and ordered a set for myself), so
here's the specifics right from the source:

The five part Planet of the Apes series appeared in:
MONSTER MEMORIES #5, 1997 SCARY MONSTERS YEARBOOK (part 1) $11.00
postpaid in the U.S.
SCARY MONSTERS MAGAZINE #22 (part 2) $10.00 postpaid
SCARY MONSTERS MAGAZINE #23 (part 3) the regular edition is sold but we
some limited edition copies available for $15.00 postpaid
SCARY MONSTERS MAGAZINE #24 (part 4) $10.00 postpaid
SCARY MONSTERS MAGAZINE #25 (part 5) $10.00 postpaid


I asked, and apparently there's no additional Apes content in the limited
edition of issue 23, and when I was on the site there was also the option
to purchase the limited edition of #24 (as well as the regular one).

Tell them I sent you should you place an order. :-)


Chris L.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Simian Scrolls is now $6 dollars, which includes your shipping. I've reprinted some of the pertinent facts below from my email to you yesterday so you'll have all the facts you need in this one email.


Kassidy Rae <valwp@...> wrote:
If you are within the US and Canada, I take payment up front, as opposed to sales in the UK.

John Roche is sending out the magazines to me shortly, so I don't have them just yet, but if you want to go ahead and get the money to me that's fine. Just understand that I don't yet have them in my possession so you won't receive it right away.

I mail Scrolls out once a week as I receive payment.

So if you live in the US or Canada and wish to receive Scrolls #9, you need to send cash (wrap it up some way and please remember I won't be responsible for funds lost in the mail) or check, payable to Valerie Williams Parish.

Send it to:
Valerie Wms. Parish
1501 Chicago Ave.
Knoxville, TN 37917
USA

I'll announce when I receive the magazines from John Roche.

Oh, and if you pre-paid me last time, I have record of them. No worries, I gotcha covered.

Kassidy





---------------------------------

Hi Patrick,

I always assumed that the bearer of the hand grenades was from some
advanced society as Zauis referred to the grenades as being taken off
a human who was trying to sneak into the city and not the "ast-ro-
nauts".

Why do you think it was from the earlier mission?

I think that your scenario where there may have been a survivor from
that group which landed ten years ago would have been an intersting
one for the writers to investigate later on. Perhaps they could have
been from a later time ala Brent from "Return" or another earlier
ANSA mission

Patrick Damian



"Virdon's ship lands in the SAME region of the SAME continent (North
America) where -- just over 10 years earlier -- a DIFFERENT spaceship
had landed carrying "as-tro-nauts" with independent notions and
little handgrenades"

Talking to yourself again, eh Patrick? (calming voice)
It...will...be...alright... They...are...here...to...help...you... - - -
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick" <sandman4552@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 5:05 AM
Subject: [PotaDG] Of grenades and "ast-ro-nauts"


> Hi Patrick,
>
> I always assumed that the bearer of the hand grenades was from some
> advanced society as Zauis referred to the grenades as being taken off
> a human who was trying to sneak into the city and not the "ast-ro-
> nauts".
>
> Why do you think it was from the earlier mission?
>
> I think that your scenario where there may have been a survivor from
> that group which landed ten years ago would have been an intersting
> one for the writers to investigate later on. Perhaps they could have
> been from a later time ala Brent from "Return" or another earlier
> ANSA mission
>
> Patrick Damian
>
>
>
> "Virdon's ship lands in the SAME region of the SAME continent (North
> America) where -- just over 10 years earlier -- a DIFFERENT spaceship
> had landed carrying "as-tro-nauts" with independent notions and
> little handgrenades"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Hi Sandman, or should I address you as "Patrick Damian", or "the
Other Patrick"?

You use the word "assume" -- and you're RIGHT to use it. I *am*
assuming that the handgrenades came from one of the "as-tro-nauts"
Zaius and Urko told Galen about.

The way I see it, the grenades either DID or did NOT come from the
prior Astronauts -- meaning that there could very well be
an "advanced society" of humans dwelling on Earth in 3085, one member
of which was caught sneaking into Central City, and Zaius "had him
killed" -- he "didn't live long enough to tell [Zaius] his name".

For the purposes of my own mega-POTA-fanfic project, I've made the
choice to link the handgrenade-carrying human with the Astronauts
Zaius tells Galen about. In part, because of Zaius' reaction to
reading Prefect Veska's note about Virdon's ship. Remember his
reaction? "Have you ever had a recurring nightmare?"

What might have been so nightmarish about the Astronauts from 10+
years ago, that Zaius would be so thunderstruck by news that ANOTHER
spaceship had landed, and that 2 of its occupants were on-the-loose?

Might it not be that the Astronauts -- whom Zaius says had feelings
of independence, and would have encouraged the docile slave-humans to
be equally "unlawful" -- had FOUGHT against Urko's security forces,
with higher-tech weaponry (including those destructive little
handgrenades), and blown apart apes right and left out of self-
defense, before Urko's forces overcame them and killed them?

I guess I'm assuming that the Astronauts Zaius refers to had resorted
to armed conflict -- VIOLENT armed conflict. Zaius, when he hears
Galen refer to Veska's note as "fantasy", yells "Destruction is not
fantasy, Galen! You have a great deal to learn!"

In this scene, it seems to me that Zaius thinks back to those earlier
Astronauts with FEAR; a fear based on memories of "destruction". Urko
somehow knew how to prep the grenade to explode, since he fiddles
with it CORRECTLY when he uses it to demonstrate the human
destructive potential, by blasting the High Council chamber door off
its hinges. I'm betting that Urko once witnessed a human fiddle with
a similar grenade, right before chucking it at a gun-toting gorilla,
who must've been reduced to blood-and-fur. That would help to explain
Urko's fierce hatred of humans -- especially the types who could
build such a destructive device.

But... sure, the grenades COULD have come from some OTHER human,
rather than from the Astronauts. One might argue that it MUST have,
since Urko says that the Astronauts "were killed" -- and Zaius
adds "Before they could be questioned!" -- yet the grenades were
taken from a human who was caught "sneaking into the city", whom
Zaius had "had killed". Why would Zaius have him killed, if he were
an Astronaut whom he wanted to QUESTION first? Zaius tells Virdon
that he "didn't live long enough to tell me his name." OUCH! Why not?
Why didn't Zaius interrogate the captured human fully?

To answer this conundrum, I could speculate as to the circumstances
of that Grenade-guy. Perhaps he was caught with ALL THREE grenades in
that little box... and Zaius intended to fully interrogate him
(perhaps all the other Astronauts had been killed by Urko and/or his
gorillas, and Zaius was partially relieved to have ONE of the humans
captured, so that he could question HIM, at least)...

... but then the captured human grabs one of the grenades, hoping to
make a break for it by blowing apart some talkin' apes. And Zaius
sees some gorilla soldiers blasted apart -- and he's horrified -- and
he sees the human grabbing ANOTHER grenade...

Who would've thought that something so little could cause so much
death and destruction?

So Zaius barks an order to a stunned gorilla to "SHOOT HIM! QUICK!
BEFORE HE THROWS ANOTHER ONE! SHOOT HIM!!!"

Thus, despite wanting to fully question the captive human, he's
forced by circumstances to "have him killed". And, thus, only ONE of
the three grenades is detonated, and Zaius goes out of his way to
sequester the remaining two bombs in his private, locked cabinet.

But Urko knows it's there, and he knows what it can do. And he goes
out of his way to associate the destructive capabilities of that
device with the two newly-captured astronauts -- Virdon & Burke -- by
stealing the grenade and detonating it in the presence of the High
Council.

But this is just my own speculation regarding these curious details
from the TV pilot. The same details can be used to come up with any
number of equally likely scenarios, including your own in which the
Astronauts and the Grenade-carrying guy were separate groups. My
assumptions are just that: assumptions. Or, they represent my own
decision to link details together in a sort of Occam's Razor-fashion,
to come up with the simplest explanation that explains ALL the
evidence. Urko and Zaius both tend to link the new astronauts (Virdon
& Burke) to the former astronauts from 10 years before, and they both
have issues with "destruction" -- Urko using the grenade for dramatic
effect. My gut tells me that Urko is trying to link THESE new
astronauts to the violent bomb-blast carnage wrought by the
astronauts that almost spread their "infection" ten years before. If
the former astronauts did NOT have any grenades or weapons, and had
NOT caused any explosive carnage, and some OTHER human had done so,
with his one grenade (out of 3), then Urko's demonstration would seem
to be sort of inappropriate. When Urko bellows "THERE is the danger!"
etc., he seems to be imploring the High Council to remember the last
time they witnessed such an explosion...

... when the "as-tro-nauts" a decade earlier had arrived, and one
of 'em had killed some Apes with such a diabolical device, prior to
being gunned down on Zaius' order.

But that's just MY take on it.

Patrick

-------------------------------------------------------------------

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick" <sandman4552@y...> wrote:
> Hi Patrick,
>
> I always assumed that the bearer of the hand grenades was from some
advanced society as Zauis referred to the grenades as being taken off
a human who was trying to sneak into the city and not the "ast-ro-
nauts".
>
> Why do you think it was from the earlier mission?
>
> I think that your scenario where there may have been a survivor
from that group which landed ten years ago would have been an
intersting one for the writers to investigate later on. Perhaps they
could have been from a later time ala Brent from "Return" or another
earlier ANSA mission
>
> Patrick Damian
>
>
>
> "Virdon's ship lands in the SAME region of the SAME continent
(North America) where -- just over 10 years earlier -- a DIFFERENT
spaceship had landed carrying "as-tro-nauts" with independent notions
and little handgrenades"

They say "the devil is in the details"... and, with my POTA-project
in the works, it's ALL about the details. I don't think I've just sat
back and watched any POTA movie/episode in the last 20 years just for
pleasure: I watch 'em to get more and more detail outta them, so that
my own project will "cover all the bases". The pleasure of the
viewing is like icing on the cake.

For those of you who don't know what I mean by "my POTA-project", in
the little free time I have anymore (!) I've been working on a
humongous prose epic which I'm titling "DESTINY OF THE PLANET OF THE
APES". At first, back in the late 1970's or so, when I noticed that
there was no novelization of "PLANET" to go along with
Avallone's "BENEATH", Pournelle's "ESCAPE", Jakes' "CONQUEST", and
Gerrold's "BATTLE", I thought that SOMEBODY should've written a
novelization of the screenplay of the movie "PLANET OF THE APES". It
always felt like one of 'em was missing...

And so, I thought "Why don't I write it?"

Back then, though, getting "PLANET" on tape wasn't doable. I once
made an audio-tape of the dialogue, when "PLANET" was broadcast on
CBS one night. I wanted the dialogue in my novelization of "PLANET"
to be verbatim -- EXACTLY what was heard on-screen.

But, comparing the dialogue in "BENEATH" with what ended up in
Avallone's novelization, I came to realize that that novelization
wasn't as faithful to the finished film as it could've been. Also,
there are some weird differences from film-to-novelization (due to
the writer's use of a screenplay, rather than the finished film),
such as Ursus biting Brent's forearm near the end [go look it up, on
page 131 of Michael Avallone's novelization of "BENEATH"], etc.

There were so many niggling little differences from "BENEATH" (the
movie) to the novelization, that I decided to write a two-film
novelization, novelizing "PLANET" and re-novelizing "BENEATH".

And then I finally got "ESCAPE", "CONQUEST", and "BATTLE" on VHS...
and compared 'em to the novelizations written by Pournelle, Jakes,
and Gerrold...

And, years later, I finally got the unedited TV episodes on DVD...

And, what the ****, I decided to write one humongous novel in which
ALL five films and ALL 14 episodes -- all the live-action classic
POTA productions -- were (re-)novelized, acting as "chapters" in one
huge epic saga.

In order to accomplish this, I knew I would have to find ways to
reconcile the various inconsistencies that cropped up from film-to-
film-to-episode, etc. I had to "unflub" the flubs. After wrapping my
noggin around the problem, turning it over-n-over-n-over... I came up
with my infamous "Mothership" theory, to unflub the major mistakes
that cropped up in the films, due to Paul Dehn's carelessness.

And I've been off-and-running ever since!

I wish I could boast of an eidetic/photographic memory, but it ain't
so. I know a lot of the on-screen details of the classic POTA films
and episodes ONLY because I've seen 'em time and time again. It ain't
hard to remember something you've seen hundreds of times!

And, I try to spell things correctly. Somebody should tell Jeff that
the orangutan's name is spelled "ZAIUS", and NOT "Zauis"!!! And
it's "CAESAR", not "CEASAR" or "CAESER" or "CEASER"!!!!! AAAUUGH!!!
IT'S A MADHOUSE! A MAAAAD HOUUUUUSE!

I majored in English, so yeah, I get a little bent-out-of-shape when
I see stuff like that. I blame rap music: if a kid loses a spelling
bee because he thinks the word "fat" is spelled "phat", he should
blame Snoop Dogg. Sue for damages, I say!

Patrick

-----------------------------------------------------------------
--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>
wrote:

> I wonder the same thing. You're incredible, Patrick. And you spell

good, too.

>
> --Helen

--------------------------------------------------------------------

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Tim Parati <apefan23@y...> wrote:
> > Patrick...I'm wondering if before each report, you go and watch

all 5 films and all TV episodes before you write or do you just have
this incredible memory! Your essays are always well thought out and
entertaining to read!

> >
> > Tim

Hi Patrick,

I like your attitude! You postulate your own thoughts and give
examples to support them, but you don't rubbish or attempt to dismiss
what others may have to say. The fact that you spend so much time
outlining your vision gives credit to your ideas, because at the end
of the day the musings of we fans is never (probably) going to be
canon.

My own thoughts on the "ast-ro-nauts" and the bearer of the grenade
were really formed in a nine year olds mind almost 30 years ago. That
doesn't necessarily make them more accurate. Back on my initial
viewing back then in 1974 I thought that the astronauts referred to
as arriving ten years earlier were in fact Taylor, Landon and
probably Brent from the movies (don't ask me how I rationalised the
different dates or the destruction of the planet, my young
unquestioning mind must have just accepted these opposing tenets).

So after carrying that view for nigh on three decades my initial view
is now somewhat stuck (although I accept that the earlier astronauts
were another group).

Everything you have stated is credible and it is good to see someone
fleshing out those events we never saw. If I may create an analogy in
the first part of Lord of The Rings I was happy that Peter Jackson
showed the background to the creation of the various rings and the
downfall of Sauron although that was not really part of the original
written trilogy. So a craftsmen can add to a brilliant work, and as
Jackson proved it can be done brilliantly.

As an aside with the grenades the box intimated more a container for
transportation than ready use (not that that limits its origin),
however the appearance of the grenades is so dissimilar to its 20th
century cousins I felt it came from a more advanced society. Now if
Zaius had say "a pistol with twenty rounds of ammunition in his
cabinet I would believe it came from an ANSA mission. But then
perhaps these "ast-ro-nauts" came from somewhere in our own future.

Lastly I would say in closing that I doubt grenades would have been
included in a space exploration mission. My reasoning behind this is
purely a question of weight. After discussing with my CO, earlier
this year, the merits of aircrew carrying rifles as opposed to
pistols he told me "we spent years getting rid of 20 000 lbs in the
upgrade, we can't afford the extra weight".

As to how to refer to me, well I have never posted so often that I
have needed a moniker (although you have spotted all the ones I have
used). I am not that fussed and am happy with Sandman if that doesn't
confuse others.

P.S. I will stick my hand up and apologise for referring to Zaius
as "Zauis" in my earlier post. In my defence I knew it was wrong but
I was tired and couldn't be bothered checking for a reference to
clear my failing memory.

Phew, I am signing off now.

Sandman

We all know that the great apes are disappearing at an alarming
rate.
One Australian man has been trying to make a difference by
dedicating his life to saving the orangutans.
Leif Cocks is Perth zoo's curator, and Australia's foremost
orangutan expert.
As founder and president of conservation group the Australian
Orangutan Project (AOP), Leif is trying to save these beautiful
creatures.
Anyone who is interested in helping may want to read this story
which was broadcast on a current affairs program down here in
Australia yesterday:

http://seven.com.au/todaytonight/story/?id=16384

And you may also want to pay a visit to the Australian Orangutan
Project's website:

http://www.orangutan.org.au/

Neil

Neil,

Did you ever get back to me on whether the pictures of the ships are
still around?

Or were you avoiding my OTHER question about drawing the interior? ;)

I am thinking the whole concept I get from the ship is mid 1900s Luxury
Yacht!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Arwen Undomiel[SMTP:ELFGIRL_06@...]
> Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 6:56:47 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Boulle's Novel
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

The wording is slightly different in some parts. I noticed that
there were somethings that I'd either skipped over before or were
not added in the US version of the book.

Thanks,Neil. I always like to hear about different groups and people who are
making an effort to save the apes. I think the orangutans are in the greatest
danger of becoming extinct. Elaine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Neil,
> Did you ever get back to me on whether the pictures of the ships

are still around?

-- I just checked in the files section and the one I did is still
there (though after seeing it again I'm thinking of having another
go at it). However the one that Glen Schiitz did seems to
have 'disappeared'.

> Or were you avoiding my OTHER question about drawing the

interior? ;)

-- No I was just waiting on the operation to graft an extra arm to
my body to be approved! ;-)

> I am thinking the whole concept I get from the ship is mid 1900s

Luxury Yacht!

-- Maybe but that is not how it is described.

Neil

Thanks Kass! Sending out a check first thing in the
morning!

Tim

--- Kassidy Rae <valwp@...> wrote:

> Simian Scrolls is now $6 dollars, which includes
> your shipping. I've reprinted some of the pertinent
> facts below from my email to you yesterday so you'll
> have all the facts you need in this one email.
>
>
> Kassidy Rae <valwp@...> wrote:
> If you are within the US and Canada, I take payment
> up front, as opposed to sales in the UK.
>
> John Roche is sending out the magazines to me
> shortly, so I don't have them just yet, but if you
> want to go ahead and get the money to me that's
> fine. Just understand that I don't yet have them in
> my possession so you won't receive it right away.
>
> I mail Scrolls out once a week as I receive payment.
>
> So if you live in the US or Canada and wish to
> receive Scrolls #9, you need to send cash (wrap it
> up some way and please remember I won't be
> responsible for funds lost in the mail) or check,
> payable to Valerie Williams Parish.
>
> Send it to:
> Valerie Wms. Parish
> 1501 Chicago Ave.
> Knoxville, TN 37917
> USA
>
> I'll announce when I receive the magazines from John
> Roche.
>
> Oh, and if you pre-paid me last time, I have record
> of them. No worries, I gotcha covered.
>
> Kassidy
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------

I went to the zoo in Perth to see the orangutans !!

> We all know that the great apes are disappearing at an alarming
> rate.
> One Australian man has been trying to make a difference by
> dedicating his life to saving the orangutans.
> Leif Cocks is Perth zoo's curator, and Australia's foremost
> orangutan expert.
> As founder and president of conservation group the Australian
> Orangutan Project (AOP), Leif is trying to save these beautiful
> creatures.
> Anyone who is interested in helping may want to read this story
> which was broadcast on a current affairs program down here in
> Australia yesterday:
>
> http://seven.com.au/todaytonight/story/?id=16384
>
> And you may also want to pay a visit to the Australian Orangutan
> Project's website:
>
> http://www.orangutan.org.au/
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

The following PotaDG poll is now closed. Here are the
final results:


POLL QUESTION: If new pota merchandise was being made
and sold, what item would you be
willing to purchase?

CHOICES AND RESULTS
- plates of the characters and scenes from the movies and tv show, 2 votes, 12.50%
- hallmark ornaments, 8 votes, 50.00%
- bandaids, 0 votes, 0.00%
- watches, 3 votes, 18.75%
- curtains, 3 votes, 18.75%



For more information about this group, please visit
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG

For help with Yahoo! Groups, please visit
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Patrick" <sandman4552@y...> wrote:

> Hi Patrick,
>
> I like your attitude! You postulate your own thoughts and give

examples to support them, but you don't rubbish or attempt to dismiss
what others may have to say. The fact that you spend so much time
outlining your vision gives credit to your ideas, because at the end
of the day the musings of we fans is never (probably) going to be
canon.

*** Not unless an idea so stuns the dudes at Fox that they pay some
cash for a treatment/script/etc., and give a green light to a new
POTA film-sequel (of the ORIGINAL Planet-thru-Battle saga),
incorporating those fan-produced ideas into the new project. Of
course, there are those who would dismiss it as non-canonical anyway,
as do those who look at anything after "PLANET" (starting
with "BENEATH") as being non-kosher.

For me, I look at all the non-"live action" stuff as noncanonical, no
matter how interesting or compelling it may be. I would LOVE to have
been able to incorporate all the MARVEL original stories -- "Terror"
(Jason & Alexander), "Future History Chronicles" (Alaric, Graymalkyn,
etc), "Evolution's Nightmare", etc -- but it just wasn't feasible. I
was pushin' it just being able to reconcile the TV show with the
movies -- not to mention each movie sequel with its predecessors!

For example, as much as I enjoyed "Terror", my POTA epic's timeline
involves an incident occurring on Earth at the time -- approximately
10 million years ago -- when the ancestor of all modern Humans,
Chimps, Gorillas, and Orangutans lived... but in "Terror", Lightsmith
has an ape companion named Gilbert, an intelligent (though mute)
gibbon. Since my plot only has the "big three" apes becoming
intelligent -- and not gibbons -- I had to nix the idea of trying to
reconcile "Terror" with the Movies-&-TV scenario. That, and the
Inheritors (the Big Brains in the glass globes) and the Psychedrome
and the Gorilloids and... well, as fun as those stories were to read,
I just couldn't reconcile it all. So, for the purposes of my own POTA
project, I'm considering canonical ONLY the 5 movies and 14 episodes.
----------------------------------------------------------------

>
> As an aside with the grenades the box intimated more a container

for transportation than ready use (not that that limits its origin),
however the appearance of the grenades is so dissimilar to its 20th
century cousins I felt it came from a more advanced society. Now if
Zaius had say "a pistol with twenty rounds of ammunition in his
cabinet I would believe it came from an ANSA mission. But then
perhaps these "ast-ro-nauts" came from somewhere in our own future.

>
> Lastly I would say in closing that I doubt grenades would have been

included in a space exploration mission. My reasoning behind this is
purely a question of weight. After discussing with my CO, earlier
this year, the merits of aircrew carrying rifles as opposed to
pistols he told me "we spent years getting rid of 20 000 lbs in the
upgrade, we can't afford the extra weight".

>> Sandman

*** In my scenario, the "as-tro-nauts" from 10+ years before 3085
were indeed "from somewhere in our own future". Remember the picture
of "NEW YORK CITY: 2503" that Virdon and Burke see in Farrow's book?
In my scenario, that "New York City" is NOT the same site whose ruins
we see in "PLANET" and "BENEATH" -- it CAN'T be, since NYC in the
movies is nuked in the time between "CONQUEST" and "BATTLE", and
remains a ruin throughout the next two millennia.

In my scenario, some of the "Scientists" who built and stashed the
caches of Knowledge in various cities of the world (seen in "THE
LEGACY"), survived the Nuke War and eventually built a "New America"
on the continent nearly antipodal to North America -- Australia.
Australia remains relatively unscathed from a nuke perspective,
though it does suffer from the harsh effects of an "Earth crust
displacement"/"Pole Shift" event, and the earthquakes and tsunamis
that would accompany it.

In order to safeguard the gene pool, they choose that island
continent because it is relatively radiation-free, unlike the other
continents, which suffered the worst of the nukes. These survivors of
the War refashion the anarchic continent into a "New America", and
rename some sites to give it a "home" feel: the old capital,
Canberra, becomes "WASHINGTON D.C." ("District of Canberra", rather
than "of Columbia"), and on Cape YORK Peninsula is built a new "NEW
YORK CITY", etc. And it is THIS new NYC which is photographed in
2503, a picture of which is included in that book Farrow didn't burn
as fuel for his fireplace.

It takes the Scientist-founders of "New America" several generations
to build up a population base, and it's only after a century or two
that they are able to blossom as a techno-civilization. And, in my
scenario, they are able to re-establish Mankind as a space-faring
species in the 23rd Century... and three years before that photo of
NYC is taken -- a NYC which doesn't bear any resemblance to the "old"
NYC lying in ruins on the continent of "Old America" -- a voyage is
made by astronauts in the NEW AMERICAN SPACE ADMINISTRATION
(i.e. "NASA") at relativistic/Hassleinian velocities, leaving in 2500
A.D. (the same year when Boulle's protagonist Ulysse Merou left Earth
with Professor Antelle and Arthur Levain). They end up returning to
Earth in 3075, 575 years of "Earth-Time" after they had left it, and
their adventures come to a tragic end when they are all killed by
Urko and/or his soldiers.

Incidentally -- and, hooboy, I don't want to give away TOO much here,
but what the hell -- the grenades they bring to "Old America" don't
necessarily have to have been with them on their voyage through
Space; in my scenario, they first return to their "New America"...
and find that something has happened to it during the centuries
they've been gone. Something they find there points them in the
direction of the continent of "Old America", which their people had
left alone (along with the rest of the poisoned planet) for
Isolationist purposes, to let it heal as best it could on its own.
They bring the grenades with them from "New America", knowing that
the situation calls for the ability to defend themselves militarily,
if the circumstances warrant it. The book is in Farrow's "secret
cave" because a team of New American "missionaries" had brought some
books to Old America, to help teach people there how to better their
lives -- and to reveal the truth about the Human past... and THAT got
them killed, centuries before the TV era in 3085. But the books they
brought (or, some of 'em) survived in that "old bomb shelter" which
Farrow chanced upon in 3083 or so.

So, when Virdon and Burke see a photograph of a city called "NEW YORK
CITY" taken in 2503, they assume that it is the North American city
we all know and love, and it never occurs to them that it is ANOTHER
city with the SAME name on the other side of the planet. Sorta how
the city-name "SPRINGFIELD", where the Simpson family dwells, could
be in any number of states -- they never DO tell us which state it's
in! But it IS across from "SHELBYVILLE", so it shouldn't be too hard
to find on a map...

Bye for now!

Patrick Tilton
EARTH-TIME 09-11-2004

P.S. It's now three years to the day after "9/11". Osama Bin Laden is
still on-the-loose, and the never-ending War on Terror continues to
rage. It would almost be cause for celebration if today a trio of Ape-
onauts would land on Earth and inform us that our world had less than
2000 years left before Doomsday -- maybe it would be enough of a
shock-to-the-system to get us to stop being such homicidal maniacs.

As Caesar says to MacDonald, in David Gerrold's novelization
of "BATTLE": "My dear, dead human foster-father -- when he wasn't
training me to be a bareback rider in his circus -- taught me the sum
of all human virtues. Which is that we must love one another or die.
The lion-tamer was allowed to crack his whip, provided he didn't whip
the lion."

"And if the lion attacked the tamer?"

"The lion never did. That's how I thought it would be in the world
outside. If my father and mother had lived, they might have taught me
whether it was right to kill an evil enemy so that good should
prevail."

"Well," said MacDonald. "History shows..."

Caesar cut him off sharply. "Human history! Not ape history. Ape
never kills ape!"

Unfortunately for him, "never" isn't a very long time...

To all those lost on 9/11/2004, R.I.P.

Patrick,

I salute your vision! Obviously you have many strands to weave
together in order to pull together the story into one magnum opus. I
think your restriction to the live action content is a wise one.

You could always incorporate an intriguing animated or comic element
into your story line if you want to. If I recall the general
convention on Star Trek canon, all the animated series are considered
non-canonical except for the one episode dealing with a teenage Spock
(age and a failing memory prevents me from recalling the exact
example, best ask a Trekkie). Surely you can stretch your boundaries
if, and only if, you wanted to.

I know it is your story and you are free to chart its path with your
own hand' but I must state that your outline of the relocation of the
embers of the United States tp Australia fills me with some
trepidation as an Australian. Hey most of us like Americans, and just
like in the novel and movie "On The Beach" (an ironical title for
another end of the world movie when you think it predates POTA) we
would gladly welcome any and all survivors of a nuclear catastrophe.
I think letting the scientists build another New York City on Cape
York would be fine, but I hope your "New America" doesn't displace
poor old Australia :) Perhaps Michael would like to add a comment on
the future for us Aussies.

But seriously Patrick I commend your vigour in charting your
contribution to the Apes universe. I am sure when it is realised it
will have its critics, but any work embued with a love of this genre
deserves to be supported.

Sandman

Thanks to the efforts of Greg Harris (Greg#2) and Greg Plonowski (Greg P.),
issue 1 of the comic series "Ape City" is available for download in PDF
format. This issue will remain available until Wednesday, 15-SEP-2004.

http://www.goatley.com/pota/

Hunter

Mr Tilton and I have fought....I mean DISCUSSED this one before Patrick
(Sandman)!

It is really difficult for me to get the point across. I guess part of
being an Aussie is being proud of our country and our achievements
(population is the same as that of New York City, yet we rank #4 in the
Olympics....you would hardly believe that is POSSIBLE!), and feeling a
knot in the gut when someone talks about renaming our country. Patrick
M T is well intended and means it as a compliment, but (as I explained
far more colourfully to him in the past) well intentioned or not,
fiction or fact....I can't help but be really defensive when someone
wants to rename my country.

We too had to fight for our independence (typically not much blood, more
of a yelling at the English to "piss off you Pommy bastards!" - they got
us back in WW1!) and we love "freedom". We have so much in common, but
I have never met an Aussie who would THINK to rename a country
"Australia" in ANY situation.

Anyhow....I think we should just agree to disagree on this one! Maybe
we could ask Patrick to rename New Zealand! ;) (inside joke - Aussies
and New Zealanders have this love/hate thing going...based mainly on
rugby results!).

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Patrick[SMTP:SANDMAN4552@...]
> Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 11:50:21 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] On The Beach in 2503
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

I know it is your story and you are free to chart its path with your
own hand' but I must state that your outline of the relocation of the
embers of the United States to Australia fills me with some trepidation
as an Australian. Hey most of us like Americans, and just like in the
novel and movie "On The Beach" (an ironical title for another end of the
world movie when you think it predates POTA) we would gladly welcome any
and all survivors of a nuclear catastrophe.

I think letting the scientists build another New York City on Cape York
would be fine, but I hope your "New America" doesn't displace poor old
Australia :) Perhaps Michael would like to add a comment on the future
for us Aussies.

Great stuff all 3 of you.

Thanks for pre-warning us that this has n expiry date Hunter.

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Hunter Goatley[SMTP:GOATHUNTER@...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 12, 2004 1:14:59 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Ape City issue 1
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Thanks to the efforts of Greg Harris (Greg#2) and Greg Plonowski (Greg
P.),
issue 1 of the comic series "Ape City" is available for download in PDF
format. This issue will remain available until Wednesday, 15-SEP-2004.

http://www.goatley.com/pota/ <http://www.goatley.com/pota/>

Hunter

Michael,

Your words echo my own thoughts. In the interests of diplomacy I
shelved the anger, the kick in the guts that I felt that a displaced
United States would just take over our little piece of paradise.

I also realise that Patrick meant no malice, so in the spirit of
friendship I am sure we will let them all apply for Australian
citizenship.

Actually if you recall Jo's plans for a space launching facilty up in
Cape York (Jo Belke-Petersen was the state of Queensland's premier in
the '70s and '80s for our offshore readers) we can link this in with
Patrick's vision.

I can see it now the newly resurrected ANSA (Australian National
Space Administration) launching vessels designed not to crash every
damned time.

Till then all our American friends are welcome to visit (not take
over) our wonderful land down under.

Cheers,

Sandman

You Aussies are awesome! I was actually cheering on some of the olympic
athletes from
Australia! Elaine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK - you'll get a visa for sure Elaine! ;)

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: taebokitti@... [taebokitti@...]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 9:10 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] On The Beach in 2503


You Aussies are awesome! I was actually cheering on some of the olympic
athletes from Australia! Elaine







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Guys
A lot of you asked that I let you know when the TV documentary will
be shown featuring the 'Planet of the Apes' beach scene and new
interviews with Creeber and Harrison - it will be on Sky Channel
tonight [Monday] at 8pm for one hour.

There will be two subsequent documentaries in the following two
weeks about the Top 10 Aliens and Robots.

Hope you guys can get it in the States - if not Im sure someone will
have copies available. All the best guys!

Les

Thanks Les.

Are you able to copy this onto VHS video tape (or even better to DVD?!??!).

I've copied this to "our sister group" (no, not because they are a bunch of
girls!) because I'm sure they wouls like to have this. When I get a copy
I'll transfer and send to James. He should be able to get it converted to
NTSC and maybe even put it on the POTA internal site.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: ansanaut [mail@...]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 10:23 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] PLANET OF THE APES IN SCI-FI DOCUMENTARY TONIGHT


Hi Guys
A lot of you asked that I let you know when the TV documentary will
be shown featuring the 'Planet of the Apes' beach scene and new
interviews with Creeber and Harrison - it will be on Sky Channel
tonight [Monday] at 8pm for one hour.

There will be two subsequent documentaries in the following two
weeks about the Top 10 Aliens and Robots.

Hope you guys can get it in the States - if not Im sure someone will
have copies available. All the best guys!

Les







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mike
Yes - I will be taping it but the producers should be sending me a
copy anyway as I feature in the show too.

I will let you know how it goes.
Les.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> Thanks Les.
>
> Are you able to copy this onto VHS video tape (or even better to

DVD?!??!).

>
> I've copied this to "our sister group" (no, not because they are a

bunch of

> girls!) because I'm sure they wouls like to have this. When I get

a copy

> I'll transfer and send to James. He should be able to get it

converted to

> NTSC and maybe even put it on the POTA internal site.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ansanaut [mail@l...]
> Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 10:23 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] PLANET OF THE APES IN SCI-FI DOCUMENTARY TONIGHT
>
>
> Hi Guys
> A lot of you asked that I let you know when the TV documentary

will

> be shown featuring the 'Planet of the Apes' beach scene and new
> interviews with Creeber and Harrison - it will be on Sky Channel
> tonight [Monday] at 8pm for one hour.
>
> There will be two subsequent documentaries in the following two
> weeks about the Top 10 Aliens and Robots.
>
> Hope you guys can get it in the States - if not Im sure someone

will

> have copies available. All the best guys!
>
> Les
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey folks, James at the pota group asked if I could help run a
contest from my site and the pota group. So go check out the contest
at http://planetoftheapestv.150m.com for details if you're
interested. Looks to be fun, and perfect for the 30th anniversary.

Winners will be announced at both my site and the pota group, so if
you're not a member over there it shouldn't hamper you from playing,
okay? You have to answer questions about a clip we'll be showing
from each and every episode, once a week.

Remember Mez's group is watching an episode a week for review and
discussion, too. So have fun!
Kass

Too bad for me, I've never seen the TV show, not even one episode. Well, the clips from the PotA webbie. Oh well, when I actually get a job maybe then I'll have some money. lol. I've read the scripts though and found them fasinating.

Kasey/Undomiel



--- "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@...> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kasey,

Send me your street address and I'll send you a copy of the DVDs of the TV
Show.

Do you have a DVD Player?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Kasey Cooper [elfgirl_06@...]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 11:34 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] 30th Anniversary of the tv series


Too bad for me, I've never seen the TV show, not even one episode. Well, the
clips from the PotA webbie. Oh well, when I actually get a job maybe then
I'll have some money. lol. I've read the scripts though and found them
fasinating.

Kasey/Undomiel



--- "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@...> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=1296bmreh/M=288055.5364025.6459876.2004029/D=gr
oups/S=1705021437:HM/EXP=1095125681/A=2193924/R=0/SIG=12h9oogn4/*http://stor
e.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?yhst-56407110520241+nsXvzK+icopydvds2.htmlgt; click
here

<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=288055.5364025.6459876.2004029/D=groups/S=
:HM/A=2193924/rand=251418068>


_____

Yahoo! Groups Links


* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/>


* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I seriously wish I could, but it is against "house rules." No talking to strange people online and don't give out your address. Sorry, I really really really wish I could. Another year and I'll be free to do so. My b-day is soon so I'm hoping against all hope that maybe I'll be getting them then. Thanks for the offer though.

Kasey/Undomiel


--- "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@...> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

That's OK. The offer is there if you want them, and to anybody else on the
group.

You can send somebody else's address and get them to send on to you Kasey -
if you like.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Kasey Cooper [elfgirl_06@...]
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 11:45 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] 30th Anniversary of the tv series




I seriously wish I could, but it is against "house rules." No talking to
strange people online and don't give out your address. Sorry, I really
really really wish I could. Another year and I'll be free to do so. My b-day
is soon so I'm hoping against all hope that maybe I'll be getting them then.
Thanks for the offer though.

Kasey/Undomiel







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'll definitely think that one over. Thank you so much, Michael, for the offer. :) At least I'll be seeing clips of them pretty soon.

Kasey/Unodmiel



--- "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@...> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

.html

Anniversary Reminder from the Calendar of PotaDG Planet of the Apes TV series Premier Monday September 13, 2004 All Day This event repeats every year. Notes: The Planet of the Apes Television show premiered on this day in 1974 Yahoo! Greetings Send a Yahoo! Anniversary Greeting. Find Anniversary Gifts Browse Yahoo! Shopping's Gift Guide

Copyright ©  2004  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.

.html<.html<.html

WOWSERS!

Have a look at Mark's link in the attached email.

Anybody who has not yet joined Mez's group for the Anniversary Screenings
Celebration, get yourselves to:

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/friends_and_fugitives/

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Rogers
Sent: Saturday, September 11, 2004 6:38 PM
To: friends_and_fugitives@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pota_tv] Re: Anniversary screenings



Greetings, Fellow Friends and Fugitives.

With the Anniversary Screening Experience imminent, I thought it might
be fun to set the scene by sharing some vintage "Planet of the Apes" TV
material with everyone.

There's nothing particularly enlightening within the text of the
magazine features I've uploaded - but the images accompanying them are
(by and large) unique and will hopefully be of some interest.

I've actually been attempting to create an Apes TV website for the last
three years (!), but none of the designs I came up with felt "right".

I'm still not happy with the one I've just uploaded, but the approaching
deadline for the Anniversary viewing has forced me to accept it... for
now.

You can access the pages at:

http://www.hadleyburg.demon.co.uk/patv/pxf.htm

I've tried to balance the "look" of the site, and quality of the images,
against reasonable download times (I have a 56K Modem myself, so I
appreciate the problems inherent in making a site being too image
intensive for non-broadband users).

I've just checked out every page, and the links between them, and
everything seems to be working, but if anyone who visits the site has
any problems let me know.

In fact, any and all feedback will be welcome (positive or negative)
about the content, or format, or links, or... whatever.

So if you have any thoughts, please share them - either directly or via
the group.

Just a couple of points:

The navigation bar at the top of the site doesn't work -- yet! It just
links back to the index page for the items I have uploaded.

I'm planning to add other sections to the site as the weeks go by - and
will be adding more material to the pages which are already there, also.

I hope.

That's about it, I guess -- except to say that I hope that those of you
who check out the pages will find something to enjoy in amongst the
material.

Hoping this finds everyone healthy and happy,

Best wishes,


Mark.

on 9/13/04 12:23 AM, Whitty, Michael at Michael.Whitty@... wrote:

WOWSERS!

Have a look at Mark's link in the attached email.

Anybody who has not yet joined Mez's group for the Anniversary Screenings
Celebration, get yourselves to:

http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/friends_and_fugitives/

Michael




I went to Mez's site... but was a little taken aback by her comments about
"male pride" and stomping people. I think both men and women have
disagreements sometimes and not everything can be blamed on "male pride."

Will


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Kasey Cooper <elfgirl_06@c...> wrote:

> I seriously wish I could, but it is against "house rules." No

talking to strange people online and don't give out your address.

-- Hey you talk to us and we're pretty damn strange! We like shows
about apes who talk, how strange is that!! ;-)

Seriously though they are good rules for young people, now if only I
hadn't let that strange Whitty bloke know my address...

Hope you get to enjoy the TV series soon, have you seen all of the
movies?

Neil

Elaine,

As Michael said, you will be welcome down here when things start to
fall apart after the first apes says "no".

Plenty of room down here for friends.

Patrick

Elaine,

As Michael said, you will be welcome down here when things start to
fall apart after the first apes says "no".

Plenty of room down here for friends.

Patrick

Kasey/Unodmiel,

You should take up Michael's option of posting the DVDs to a safe
address.

After all even though we are somewhat strange down under, you have
all that ocean to keep you safe.

Plus we know where you live anyway...... Its in your email address -
just west of the Misty Mountains with Elrond. :)

Hey just a moment thats in New Zealand, we're practically neighbours.

Be careful of those orcs!

Patrick

Where did the Mike McColm comics end up people?

Some of the newer members really want to see them.


Michael


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

One thing I love about Mez is you know where you stand!

She has only had to deal with male testosterone so far Will - so
until she is proven wrong I sure understand why she said that.

Will, my man, please overlook that and get into the spirit of this!

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Will Hoover <will5967@v...> wrote:
> on 9/13/04 12:23 AM, Whitty, Michael at Michael.Whitty@d... wrote:
>
> WOWSERS!
>
> Have a look at Mark's link in the attached email.
>
> Anybody who has not yet joined Mez's group for the Anniversary
Screenings
> Celebration, get yourselves to:
>
> http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/friends_and_fugitives/
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> I went to Mez's site... but was a little taken aback by her
comments about
> "male pride" and stomping people. I think both men and women have
> disagreements sometimes and not everything can be blamed on "male
pride."
>
> Will
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks,Patrick. Australia is a beautiful country and I hope to get there
someday. Elaine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have definitely seen all the movies. They are all very good. I'm gonna try to get the series soon. The clip from Kass's page made me want to see them even more badly than I did before.

Kasey/Undomiel



--- "Neil" <nfoster@...> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would really love to do that. Maybe I can find a friend at college who would let me send them to their address. Definitely living in Rivendell with Elrond. Those orcs are getting to be as bad as Urko's soldiers now-a-days.

Kasey/Undomiel



--- "Patrick" <sandman4552@...> wrote:


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Great,it's on my list of places to visit! Elaine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Dave B" <smugster@... > wrote:

> It is my understanding that SS#9 is currently at the print finishers being

bound

> and stitched. This issue should have been shipped around mid August but
> there have been some complications that have delayed publication (Some
> pages went missing in the post

Yes, picture the scene... You've just posted several amended pages to John
then, before you get a chance to back up the whole load of pages you've just
finished, your hard drive crashes and you lose it all. It's a pain but it's
okay, you think, as I've already posted them so at least John has the hard
copies. Then about a week later you get an email from John asking about the
aforementioned pages...

Very nearly a disaster and I was very close to piecing them back together
using my scribbled notes and some photocopied pages from the unedited
versions but thankfully they did arrive safely in the end.

The result is very pleasing. I got my copy a few days ago so if you don't
have it already you should be getting it very soon - nobody else seems to
have commented so let me just say that as a comics geek I love it. If you
like any of the PotA comics then this is the issue for you - no matter
whether it's Marvel US, Marvel UK, Brown Watson, Adventure or hell, even
Dark Horse - there is something for every fan of PotA comics in this issue.

Another good job from all concerned - and all wrapped up in a cover by Kent
Burles who did the art on the first several issues of the Adventure comic.
I'm in Apes comic geek heaven.

Alan

Michael, they're on my site. Go to the contents page, then to the comics heading. Send your readers on over!

Kassidy

PS Very nice, how you offered such a balanced comment re: our Mez. She's the best, really, Will.



---------------------------------

She is the best, and I'm getting a real "schoolboy tingle" out of all
the TV Show excitement, so I hope you will all join us.

If you have not seen Kassidy Rae's site you need to go there too!

http://planetoftheapestv.150m.com/

Please let us know what you think of the site!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Kassidy Rae[SMTP:VALWP@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 6:37:16 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: McColm's comics
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Michael, they're on my site. Go to the contents page, then to the
comics
heading. Send your readers on over!

Kassidy

PS Very nice, how you offered such a balanced comment re: our Mez.
She's
the best, really, Will.



---------------------------------

Well, you have a room in Canberra and - hey, where are you again Patrick?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: taebokitti@... [taebokitti@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:54 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] On The Beach in 2503


Thanks,Patrick. Australia is a beautiful country and I hope to get there
someday. Elaine







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well then now might be a good time to tell you all I have been speaking with
Gary Challoner about doing a new 22 page comic.

He is trying not to over-commit at the moment so we are still discussing
details, but he PARTICULARLY wants to do something that continues from
"Urchak's Folly"!

SO.....maybe some encouragement from the crowd?

And no Neil, he is not REPLACING you so put down the champagne and get back
to work! That's an ORDER! ;)

Michael


-----Original Message-----
From: Alan Maxwell [alan@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:07 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Simian Scrolls #9



"Dave B" <smugster@...> wrote:

> It is my understanding that SS#9 is currently at the print finishers being

bound

> and stitched. This issue should have been shipped around mid August but
> there have been some complications that have delayed publication (Some
> pages went missing in the post

Yes, picture the scene... You've just posted several amended pages to John
then, before you get a chance to back up the whole load of pages you've just
finished, your hard drive crashes and you lose it all. It's a pain but it's
okay, you think, as I've already posted them so at least John has the hard
copies. Then about a week later you get an email from John asking about the
aforementioned pages...

Very nearly a disaster and I was very close to piecing them back together
using my scribbled notes and some photocopied pages from the unedited
versions but thankfully they did arrive safely in the end.

The result is very pleasing. I got my copy a few days ago so if you don't
have it already you should be getting it very soon - nobody else seems to
have commented so let me just say that as a comics geek I love it. If you
like any of the PotA comics then this is the issue for you - no matter
whether it's Marvel US, Marvel UK, Brown Watson, Adventure or hell, even
Dark Horse - there is something for every fan of PotA comics in this issue.

Another good job from all concerned - and all wrapped up in a cover by Kent
Burles who did the art on the first several issues of the Adventure comic.
I'm in Apes comic geek heaven.

Alan







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'll keep that in mind. Elaine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

on 9/13/04 7:02 AM, Michael Whitty at Michael.Whitty@... wrote:

One thing I love about Mez is you know where you stand!

She has only had to deal with male testosterone so far Will - so
until she is proven wrong I sure understand why she said that.

Will, my man, please overlook that and get into the spirit of this!

Michael



Perhaps your right. Perhaps she doesn't mean to come off as sexist and
crass.... But if it's all the same to you, I'll just watch my POTA TV
series DVDs again for the umpteenth time and be plenty in the spirt, thank
you.

Will


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yeah, that's fine by me.

But remember us here at the chat group if the viewing inspires you
to....well.....CHAT! ;)

Cheers Will.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Will Hoover [will5967@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:29 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Anniversary screenings


on 9/13/04 7:02 AM, Michael Whitty at Michael.Whitty@... wrote:

One thing I love about Mez is you know where you stand!

She has only had to deal with male testosterone so far Will - so
until she is proven wrong I sure understand why she said that.

Will, my man, please overlook that and get into the spirit of this!

Michael



Perhaps your right. Perhaps she doesn't mean to come off as sexist and
crass.... But if it's all the same to you, I'll just watch my POTA TV
series DVDs again for the umpteenth time and be plenty in the spirt, thank
you.

Will







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> SO.....maybe some encouragement from the crowd?

> And no Neil, he is not REPLACING you so put down the champagne and

get back to work! That's an ORDER! ;)

Oooopsh 2 late (hic!)... Yay, go Gary!!! we want more Urchak!!

Neil

Oh dear, we're looking for an artist again! ;)

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Neil [nfoster@...]
Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 3:25 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Simian Scrolls #9


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> SO.....maybe some encouragement from the crowd?

> And no Neil, he is not REPLACING you so put down the champagne and

get back to work! That's an ORDER! ;)

Oooopsh 2 late (hic!)... Yay, go Gary!!! we want more Urchak!!

Neil







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

on 9/14/04 12:24 AM, Whitty, Michael at Michael.Whitty@... wrote:

Yeah, that's fine by me.

But remember us here at the chat group if the viewing inspires you
to....well.....CHAT! ;)

Cheers Will.

Michael



Well, now you know where I stand. And I think you of all people know that
being a all mighty moderator doesn't make one king of the world.

Will


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]