----- Original Message -----
From: "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2004 5:31 PM
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Simian Scrolls #9


> Well then now might be a good time to tell you all I have been speaking
with
> Gary Challoner about doing a new 22 page comic.
>
> He is trying not to over-commit at the moment so we are still discussing
> details, but he PARTICULARLY wants to do something that continues from
> "Urchak's Folly"!
>
> SO.....maybe some encouragement from the crowd?
>
> And no Neil, he is not REPLACING you so put down the champagne and get
back
> to work! That's an ORDER! ;)
>
> Michael
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alan Maxwell [alan@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2004 5:07 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Simian Scrolls #9
>
>
>
> "Dave B" <smugster@...> wrote:
> > It is my understanding that SS#9 is currently at the print finishers
being
> bound
> > and stitched. This issue should have been shipped around mid August but
> > there have been some complications that have delayed publication (Some
> > pages went missing in the post
>
> Yes, picture the scene... You've just posted several amended pages to John
> then, before you get a chance to back up the whole load of pages you've
just
> finished, your hard drive crashes and you lose it all. It's a pain but
it's
> okay, you think, as I've already posted them so at least John has the hard
> copies. Then about a week later you get an email from John asking about
the
> aforementioned pages...
>
> Very nearly a disaster and I was very close to piecing them back together
> using my scribbled notes and some photocopied pages from the unedited
> versions but thankfully they did arrive safely in the end.
>
> The result is very pleasing. I got my copy a few days ago so if you don't
> have it already you should be getting it very soon - nobody else seems to
> have commented so let me just say that as a comics geek I love it. If you
> like any of the PotA comics then this is the issue for you - no matter
> whether it's Marvel US, Marvel UK, Brown Watson, Adventure or hell, even
> Dark Horse - there is something for every fan of PotA comics in this
issue.
>
> Another good job from all concerned - and all wrapped up in a cover by
Kent
> Burles who did the art on the first several issues of the Adventure comic.
> I'm in Apes comic geek heaven.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

>
> ----------
> From: veetus@...[SMTP:VEETUS@...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:41:33 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com; pota_Phenomenon@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] OT: King Kong
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Whitty
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ; pota_Phenomenon@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 11:24 PM
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] OT: King Kong


Thanks Jeff.

I would never classify KK as OT. It has so much to do with POTA, and
more so does this remake I think.

Jackson is only about 3 hours from me (as the crow flies) - I have a
friend in New Zealand who is near the shooting and I am trying to
persuade him to hunt Jackson down and ask him a simple question: "Are
you a Planet of the Apes Fan?".

If the answer is "yes" then I would hope the next statement would be "go
and demand to make the next movie...oh, and don't accept any DEADLINES,
and do READ the script!".

Michael
>
> ----------
> From: veetus@...[SMTP:VEETUS@...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 3:41:33 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com; pota_Phenomenon@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] OT: King Kong
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>
The new ape remake on the block is "King Kong", from the Oscar-winning
director of "Lord of the Rings", Peter Jackson. After two recent sub-par
remakes of classic ape movies ("Mighty Joe Young" and POTA) the original
ape
movie superstar looks to be in good hands. Jackson was also interested
in
doing the POTA remake way back when.
Anyway, here's a good website for those interested in counting down
this
movie. www.kongisking.net . It's done by fans (the best kind of site)
but
Jackson contributes "video diaries". It's a lot of fun. I think the
anticipation surrounding "Kong" will be the best shot at Fox
reconsidering a
POTA sequel (if they should even bother). The site also goes into the
history of the original, Arthur Jacobs' favorite movie and the one that
inspired him to do POTA. - - - Jeff










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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> ----------
> From: veetus@...[SMTP:VEETUS@...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 4:57:56 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] OT: King Kong
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Whitty
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ; pota_Phenomenon@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 11:24 PM
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] OT: King Kong


Thanks Jeff.

I would never classify KK as OT. It has so much to do with POTA, and
more so does this remake I think.

Jackson is only about 3 hours from me (as the crow flies) - I have a
friend in New Zealand who is near the shooting and I am trying to
persuade him to hunt Jackson down and ask him a simple question: "Are
you a Planet of the Apes Fan?".

If the answer is "yes" then I would hope the next statement would be
"go
and demand to make the next movie...oh, and don't accept any
DEADLINES,
and do READ the script!".

Michael

----- Original Message -----
From: "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 10:49 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] The Dog


> For those of you who are not going to other sites to celebrate the 35th
> Anniversary of the TV Show, I think there are a few important questions
> about that first show.
>
> The first would be the DOG in the show.
>
> Many people believe it is placed there for a REASON....what do you think?
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2004 11:02 PM
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] BEWARE THE BEAST print


> As editor, I did think about this one too (really, I do think sometimes!).
>
> I was actually quite blown away by just HOW MUCH thought Neil put into
these
> images Patrick - not quite at your level but man, he really thought about
it
> (so much so that he realised the inside of the ship would have to be a
> proportional mismatch!).
>
> When I quizzed Neil on this he referred me back to the DVD and there I saw
> little shrubs! So I guess we have just found another one for you to
explain
> Patrick? ;)
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 1:01 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] BEWARE THE BEAST print
>
>
> Just out of curiosity... a few questions regarding this image, and
> the "BEWARE THE BEAST" comic it came from.
>
> 1. How close to the "green areas" on Cornelius' map is the site of
> Brent's crashed ship? There are a number of little green shrubs in
> the foreground, between Gideon and the ship -- shouldn't that mean
> that Brent crashed much nearer to Ape City than Taylor's splashdown
> site? Taylor, Dodge and Landon trekked for more than a day before
> they found the first evidence of "Life... where there's one, there's
> another... and another... and another..."
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

> The apes planted the shrubs so they could smoke them. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:49 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: [Dogs


>
> To my mind, the dog was purposeful. I don't feel the writers were
drenched in canon before they wrote the script (insert cynical laugh), but
surely they knew the major points of the movies? The dog was quite
prominent, almost as if to make a point, to say, "and the tv show is
different from the movies because of..."
>
> Kass
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 10:18 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] 35th Anniversary (questions about that first show)


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:
> For those of you who are not going to other sites to celebrate the
35th Anniversary of the TV Show, I think there are a few important
questions about that first show.

-- After finally getting around to watching the first episode of the
TV series again one thing really struck me on this viewing - how
much of the stuff they recycled from the movies apart from the ape
clothes & rifles.
I noticed the bars from Taylor's cell from Beneath, the 'walls' from
the funeral scene from Planet, the spaceship, they used the same
stock shot of Ape city from the film, and is that log / tree trunk
near their crashed ship the same one that was in the outside pen in
Planet?

Did I miss anything?

Neil










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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Will Hoover" <will5967@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] 35th Anniversary (questions about that first show)


> on 9/18/04 12:18 AM, Neil at nfoster@... wrote:
>
> -- After finally getting around to watching the first episode of the
> TV series again one thing really struck me on this viewing - how
> much of the stuff they recycled from the movies apart from the ape
> clothes & rifles.
> I noticed the bars from Taylor's cell from Beneath, the 'walls' from
> the funeral scene from Planet, the spaceship, they used the same
> stock shot of Ape city from the film, and is that log / tree trunk
> near their crashed ship the same one that was in the outside pen in
> Planet?
>
> Did I miss anything?
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
> I don't know about the log, but I was going to mention all of the above
> myself. It's great to see all that recycled stuff because it's a
wonderful
> tribute to the films... but maybe that's all it is (see below). The bars
> from the cell from Beneath and the 'walls' from the funeral scene from
> Planet are a particularly nice touch. And if I'm not mistaken, that's
not
> the first time the 'walls' were recycled. I'm pretty sure they can be
seen
> in the background in a restaurant scene in Conquest. Also, I believe
there
> were two different stock shots of Ape City from the films in the pilot
> episode.
>
> I did want to mention one thing though. Everybody is so fixated on the
dog
> that they forgot one other very important difference between the T.V.
series
> and the films; the possible existance of capital punishment in the ape's
> criminal justice system. I'm not sure if it's actually capital punishment
> for apes (but it certainly is for humans!), but when Virdon and Burke
> capture Zaius, there is a conversation between the three of them in Zaius'
> office in which Zaius states, "And yes, I had him killed, as I will have
you
> killed some day. As I must have poor Galen killed." That's a lot of
> killing! And it's certainly quite a departure from "Ape shall never kill
> ape."
>
> Basically, I more or less agree with everybody who thinks the dog was
placed
> in the opening scene for a reason. Oh, I don't think it was that
> premeditated, but it does serve to establish right away that the series is
> in a different creative universe from the films. And though we all know
and
> love the films so well, I think the producers of the T.V. show made
> deliberate changes from the films because they wanted to sort of "fix"
> continuity and errors of logic that were made throughout the film series.
> For example, the idea that absolutely all the dogs and cats in the whole
> world could be wiped out because of a single space virus brought back by
an
> astronaut is quite a bit more of a stretch than the idea that there will
> still be dogs (however rare?) in 3085 AD. Look at Australia! If I'm not
> mistaken, there is a breed of dog called the Dingo in Australia that is
> unrelated to any other breed on Earth. Surely, a virus that killed dogs
and
> cats in North America and maybe even Europe could be halted before it got
to
> Australia and New Zealand. In fact, geographically, Australia was
isolated
> for so long in the past that many types of animals exist in Australia and
> ONLY in Australia.
>
> Of course, I wouldn't change anything about Conquest! It's a wonderful
film
> and I love it as much as the next diehard Apes fan, and I can accept the
> loss of all the dogs and cats in the context of the films series when I
> watch the films series, but when I watch the T.V. series, I just don't
have
> a problem with seeing a dog. It's obviously a whole different scenario
and
> that's all there is to it.
>
> What I think confuses people so much is the fact that the costumes,
makeup,
> sets, props and even star Roddy McDowall were "recylced" from the films
for
> use in the series. So many similarities exist between the films and the
> series that it gets people thinking that the T.V. series is in the same
> universe as the films, but it obviously is not. There are three key
> examples to support this supposition. 1) Dogs do exist in 3085 AD. 2)
> Humans have the power of speech and though they are oppressed, they are
far
> from the mute "animals" they were in Planet and Beneath. They are also
not
> hyper intelligent mutants, although, had the series gone on, they might
have
> expored a similar storyline, I suspect, as further "recycling" from the
> films. 3) Zaius says he must have "poor Galen killed," a comment that
> suggests that on this Planet of Apes, ape may actually kill ape, at least
as
> far as the criminal justice system is concerned anyway.
>
> So as far as I'm concerned, the dog is not a "flub." Everyone who thinks
> the series is in the same universe as the films is making their own
> neverending flub.
>
> Will
>
> P.S.- "Imagine" if Tim Burton's Apes film had been made with recycled
> costumes, makeup and props from the original Apes films, but still told
the
> same lackluster story. People would get EVEN MORE confused and think that
> this other Ape world was too much like the post-apocalyptic world that
> Taylor ended up in to be a different place. And at that point, you'd
> probably being putting far too much thought into it to enjoy the film
> anyway.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Whitty
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 6:32 AM
Subject: [PotaDG] Ape Shall Not Kill Abe!


Will

This is a good point about ape killing ape, but I think the concept
of this does not come until later.....in Planet Zaius talks of
Cornelius being hung for high treason! I forget where the "Ape not
killing ape" is introduced....maybe even as late as "Battle?"

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Will Hoover <will5967@v...> wrote:
> on 9/18/04 12:18 AM, Neil at nfoster@h... wrote:
>
> -- After finally getting around to watching the first episode of
the
> TV series again one thing really struck me on this viewing - how
> much of the stuff they recycled from the movies apart from the ape
> clothes & rifles.
> I noticed the bars from Taylor's cell from Beneath, the 'walls'
from
> the funeral scene from Planet, the spaceship, they used the same
> stock shot of Ape city from the film, and is that log / tree trunk
> near their crashed ship the same one that was in the outside pen in
> Planet?
>
> Did I miss anything?
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
> I don't know about the log, but I was going to mention all of the
above
> myself. It's great to see all that recycled stuff because it's a
wonderful
> tribute to the films... but maybe that's all it is (see below).
The bars
> from the cell from Beneath and the 'walls' from the funeral scene
from
> Planet are a particularly nice touch. And if I'm not mistaken,
that's not
> the first time the 'walls' were recycled. I'm pretty sure they
can be seen
> in the background in a restaurant scene in Conquest. Also, I
believe there
> were two different stock shots of Ape City from the films in the
pilot
> episode.
>
> I did want to mention one thing though. Everybody is so fixated
on the dog
> that they forgot one other very important difference between the
T.V. series
> and the films; the possible existance of capital punishment in the
ape's
> criminal justice system. I'm not sure if it's actually capital
punishment
> for apes (but it certainly is for humans!), but when Virdon and
Burke
> capture Zaius, there is a conversation between the three of them
in Zaius'
> office in which Zaius states, "And yes, I had him killed, as I
will have you
> killed some day. As I must have poor Galen killed." That's a lot
of
> killing! And it's certainly quite a departure from "Ape shall
never kill
> ape."
>
> Basically, I more or less agree with everybody who thinks the dog
was placed
> in the opening scene for a reason. Oh, I don't think it was that
> premeditated, but it does serve to establish right away that the
series is
> in a different creative universe from the films. And though we
all know and
> love the films so well, I think the producers of the T.V. show made
> deliberate changes from the films because they wanted to sort
of "fix"
> continuity and errors of logic that were made throughout the film
series.
> For example, the idea that absolutely all the dogs and cats in the
whole
> world could be wiped out because of a single space virus brought
back by an
> astronaut is quite a bit more of a stretch than the idea that
there will
> still be dogs (however rare?) in 3085 AD. Look at Australia! If
I'm not
> mistaken, there is a breed of dog called the Dingo in Australia
that is
> unrelated to any other breed on Earth. Surely, a virus that
killed dogs and
> cats in North America and maybe even Europe could be halted before
it got to
> Australia and New Zealand. In fact, geographically, Australia was
isolated
> for so long in the past that many types of animals exist in
Australia and
> ONLY in Australia.
>
> Of course, I wouldn't change anything about Conquest! It's a
wonderful film
> and I love it as much as the next diehard Apes fan, and I can
accept the
> loss of all the dogs and cats in the context of the films series
when I
> watch the films series, but when I watch the T.V. series, I just
don't have
> a problem with seeing a dog. It's obviously a whole different
scenario and
> that's all there is to it.
>
> What I think confuses people so much is the fact that the
costumes, makeup,
> sets, props and even star Roddy McDowall were "recylced" from the
films for
> use in the series. So many similarities exist between the films
and the
> series that it gets people thinking that the T.V. series is in the
same
> universe as the films, but it obviously is not. There are three
key
> examples to support this supposition. 1) Dogs do exist in 3085
AD. 2)
> Humans have the power of speech and though they are oppressed,
they are far
> from the mute "animals" they were in Planet and Beneath. They are
also not
> hyper intelligent mutants, although, had the series gone on, they
might have
> expored a similar storyline, I suspect, as further "recycling"
from the
> films. 3) Zaius says he must have "poor Galen killed," a comment
that
> suggests that on this Planet of Apes, ape may actually kill ape,
at least as
> far as the criminal justice system is concerned anyway.
>
> So as far as I'm concerned, the dog is not a "flub." Everyone who
thinks
> the series is in the same universe as the films is making their own
> neverending flub.
>
> Will
>
> P.S.- "Imagine" if Tim Burton's Apes film had been made with
recycled
> costumes, makeup and props from the original Apes films, but still
told the
> same lackluster story. People would get EVEN MORE confused and
think that
> this other Ape world was too much like the post-apocalyptic world
that
> Taylor ended up in to be a different place. And at that point,
you'd
> probably being putting far too much thought into it to enjoy the
film
> anyway.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 6:39 AM
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: free return dvds


>
> Now speaking of DIFFERENT universes, I gotta say I think "Return" is
> almost impossible to link with the other POTA movies and TV Show!|
>
> Michael
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, charlton burton <charburn65@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > i am in south oz so pal is no a problem
> >
> > -- Damn another Aussie! ;-) Welcome Charlie. I used to live in
> South
> > Australia, where abouts are you?
> >
> > The DVDs of Return look really good and if, like you say you
> haven't
> > seen the cartoon series before you are in for a shock! They are
> > different from what you would be used to if you only know the
> movies
> > and TV series.
> >
> > Neil
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I'd certainly have to agree and to me it is a rather strange
invention
> too.
>
> It sure contradicts Zaius' threat of hanging Cornelius for high
treason, however if you don't count "execution" for some reason that
COULD explain it.
>
> And doesn't Ursus go to fire on the chimp protestors? I could be
wrong because last time I watched Beneath I did so to ENJOY it, not
to analyse! So if this is the case it muddles thing up!
>
> Was "ape not killing ape" mentioned in Escape or Conquest?

*** Yes, it was. In "ESCAPE", when Hasslein and the CIA-type
interrogators are giving Cornelius and Zira the "third degree"
questioning, Cornelius at one point states with vehemence, "One
reason for Man's original downfall was your peculiar habit of
murdering one another. Man destroys Man! Apes do NOT destroy Apes!"

By this time, of course, Cornelius considers certain friendly humans
(like Taylor, Brent, Lewis & Stevie) to be "exceptions to the rule" --
and this line of dialogue has the ring of a knee-jerk racist
comment. He has also seen the Earth destroyed before his very eyes --
admittedly, after an "ape war of aggression" triggers it, but he does
point out that he suspects that the weapon which destroyed Earth was
Man's invention, implying that no Ape would ever have built such a
thing.

In the novelization of "ESCAPE", there's this passage (page 78): "Did
you have legends of apes once having great civilizations?" Wilson
asked. "I am asking you directly--is it not possible that wars among
apes destroyed the cities and power plants and everything?"

"Apes don't have wars," Zira protested. "Apes don't kill apes."

"Don't be silly," Wilson said.

"Yeah, you had an army, you said so," Senator Yancey pointed out. "If
there wasn't anybody to fight, why'd you have an army?"

"All right," Cornelius said. "There were other ape settlements.
Sometimes the gorillas would go fight them. But they didn't have any
weapons except rifles, that sort of thing. Nothing like the bombs we
had legends about--all human weapons. Atom bomb. Does that word mean
anything to you? It was a word we used to frighten children, but we
weren't sure it meant anything."

"It means something," Yancey said.

- - - -

As for whether Cornelius & Zira are telling the truth about the
gorilla army -- that they fought other APES with rifles, etc -- that
is another argument. Perhaps the gorilla army DID once fight against
an army of other apes... but for a reason. Perhaps, way back when,
when there were apes who wished to live in equality with humans (like
the happy group in 2670, in "BATTLE"...), OTHER apes who abhorred
humans considered the "human-lovers" to be heretics purposely going
against the Will of God -- as put forth by the intolerant later
Lawgiver who wrote the Sacred Scrolls -- which mandated that the Apes
BEWARE the beast Man, for he is the "devil's pawn"... to SHUN him, to
drive him back into his jungle lair, etc. Any ape, or group of apes,
who advocated making peace with them and living in equality would be
SINNERS deserving whatever punishment their "holy" scriptures
mandate. Such "killing" would not be considered Murder by those doing
the killing. Thus, it would call for the distinction between LAWFUL
and UNLAWFUL ending-of-life.

Patrick

>
> It certainly is something that, before further scrutiny, I always
assumed was part of all POTA "canon", but the more you examine it,
the more confusing it becomes!
>
> I certainly think Caesar killing Aldo is intended (as is MUCH of
Battle) to show a different future is in stall for humans and
apes.......
>
> Michael
---------------------------------------------------------
>
> That's pretty much what I remember too. I think you're right, that
that's the first mention of this in the film series. Good memory!
>
> It seems clear to me that the entire concept of "Ape shall never
kill ape" originated and quite possibly ended with Paul Dehn. I
don't think there's a single mention of it in the T.V. series. Any
thoughts on that, anyone?
>
> Will

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Whitty
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 8:46 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] Ape Shall Not Kill Ape!


I'd certainly have to agree and to me it is a rather strange invention
too.

It sure contradicts Zaius' threat of hanging Cornelius for high treason,
however if you don't count "execution" for some reason that COULD
explain it.

And doesn't Ursus go to fire on the chimp protestors? I could be wrong
because last time I watched Beneath I did so to ENJOY it, not to
analyse! So if this is the case it muddles thing up!

Was "ape not killing ape" mentioned in Escape or Conquest?

It certainly is something that, before further scrutiny, I always
assumed was part of all POTA "canon", but the more you examine it, the
more confusing it becomes!

I certainly think Caesar killing Aldo is intended (as is MUCH of Battle)
to show a different future is in stall for humans and apes.......

Michael

> ----------
> From: Will Hoover[SMTP:WILL5967@...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:19:45 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Ape Shall Not Kill Abe!
> Auto forwarded by a Rule

That's pretty much what I remember too. I think you're right, that
that's
the first mention of this in the film series. Good memory!

It seems clear to me that the entire concept of "Ape shall never kill
ape"
originated and quite possibly ended with Paul Dehn. I don't think
there's a
single mention of it in the T.V. series. Any thoughts on that, anyone?

Will










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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I don't think Ursus was going to shoot the chimp protesters (it

>
> ----------
> From: veetus@...[SMTP:VEETUS@...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 8:08:13 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: free return dvds
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 6:39 AM
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: free return dvds


>
> Now speaking of DIFFERENT universes, I gotta say I think "Return" is
> almost impossible to link with the other POTA movies and TV Show!|
>
> Michael
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, charlton burton <charburn65@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > i am in south oz so pal is no a problem
> >
> > -- Damn another Aussie! ;-) Welcome Charlie. I used to live in
> South
> > Australia, where abouts are you?
> >
> > The DVDs of Return look really good and if, like you say you
> haven't
> > seen the cartoon series before you are in for a shock! They are
> > different from what you would be used to if you only know the
> movies
> > and TV series.
> >
> > Neil

>
> ----------
> From: veetus@...[SMTP:VEETUS@...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 8:16:52 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Ape Shall Not Kill Ape!
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Whitty
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 8:46 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] Ape Shall Not Kill Ape!


I'd certainly have to agree and to me it is a rather strange invention
too.

It sure contradicts Zaius' threat of hanging Cornelius for high
treason,
however if you don't count "execution" for some reason that COULD
explain it.

And doesn't Ursus go to fire on the chimp protestors? I could be
wrong
because last time I watched Beneath I did so to ENJOY it, not to
analyse! So if this is the case it muddles thing up!

Was "ape not killing ape" mentioned in Escape or Conquest?

It certainly is something that, before further scrutiny, I always
assumed was part of all POTA "canon", but the more you examine it, the
more confusing it becomes!

I certainly think Caesar killing Aldo is intended (as is MUCH of
Battle)
to show a different future is in stall for humans and apes.......

Michael

> ----------
> From: Will Hoover[SMTP:WILL5967@...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 12:19:45 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Ape Shall Not Kill Abe!
> Auto forwarded by a Rule

That's pretty much what I remember too. I think you're right, that
that's
the first mention of this in the film series. Good memory!

It seems clear to me that the entire concept of "Ape shall never kill
ape"
originated and quite possibly ended with Paul Dehn. I don't think
there's a
single mention of it in the T.V. series. Any thoughts on that,
anyone?

Will

>
> ----------
> From: Michael Whitty[SMTP:WHITTY@...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 11:11:25 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Free return dvds
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

>
> ----------
> From: veetus@...[SMTP:VEETUS@...]
> Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 8:08:13 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: free return dvds
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 6:39 AM
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: free return dvds


>
> Now speaking of DIFFERENT universes, I gotta say I think "Return" is
> almost impossible to link with the other POTA movies and TV Show!|
>
> Michael
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, charlton burton <charburn65@y...>
> > wrote:
> > > i am in south oz so pal is no a problem
> >
> > -- Damn another Aussie! ;-) Welcome Charlie. I used to live in
> South
> > Australia, where abouts are you?
> >
> > The DVDs of Return look really good and if, like you say you
> haven't
> > seen the cartoon series before you are in for a shock! They are
> > different from what you would be used to if you only know the
> movies
> > and TV series.
> >
> > Neil








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--

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:11 AM
Subject: [PotaDG] Free return dvds


>
>
> Hey Jeff,
>
> What issue is this Chronology in?
>
> I have been watching the toons recently and I still violently disagree
> that it fits because (to me) it is so very obviously (almost
> shamelessly!) just drawing on names from our face movies! But I like to
> keep an open mind... ;)
>
> Back issues of Scrolls are available right Jeff/Terry?
>
> Michael
>
>
> >
> > ----------
> > From: veetus@...[SMTP:VEETUS@...]
> > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 8:08:13 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: free return dvds
> > Auto forwarded by a Rule
> >
> It's not impossible. In my "Ape Chronicles" chronology, "Return" is
> the
> end result of Caesar's timeline, the 2nd timeline (for those who believe
> in
> a 2nd timeline). It presents closure because the Earth survived past
> it's
> destruction in "Beneath", so Caesar was successful. - - - Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@...>
> To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 6:39 AM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: free return dvds
>
>
> >
> > Now speaking of DIFFERENT universes, I gotta say I think "Return" is
> > almost impossible to link with the other POTA movies and TV Show!|
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> > > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, charlton burton <charburn65@y...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > i am in south oz so pal is no a problem
> > >
> > > -- Damn another Aussie! ;-) Welcome Charlie. I used to live in
> > South
> > > Australia, where abouts are you?
> > >
> > > The DVDs of Return look really good and if, like you say you
> > haven't
> > > seen the cartoon series before you are in for a shock! They are
> > > different from what you would be used to if you only know the
> > movies
> > > and TV series.
> > >
> > > Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Chris Lawless <lawford42@j...> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Not much good news on the Film Score Monthly front I'm afraid. I
was told
> that Varese Sarabande still owns the rights to the music from
ESCAPE so
> he can't pursue releasing that, and for reasons he said he
couldn't go
> into, he can't pursue the music from either POTA TV series and do a
> combined soundtrack. He liked the idea- especially since music
from the
> live action TV series or RETURN probably wouldn't fill up a CD by
itself-
> but unfortunately it's a no go.
>
> I tried the same pitch to Varese, but just got the
automated 'Thank You'
> reply. Unlike FSM where I know the person who runs the site, I
have no
> qualms at all about e-mail bombing (in a professional manner of
course)
> Varese Sarabande about (at least) an ESCAPE release, and would
even post
> a form letter to the DG for everyone to cut & paste into their e-
mail.
> All you'd have to do is add your signature. What does everyone else
> think?
>
> Sorry I don't have better news for everyone, but I tried.
>
>
> Chris L.
>
>

> Not much good news on the Film Score Monthly front I'm afraid. I was told
> that Varese Sarabande still owns the rights to the music from ESCAPE so
> he can't pursue releasing that

> It is my belief that to truly grasp POTA in its entirety, the first
> thing is to look at Boulle's novel (which can be interpreted as Monkey
> Planet ot Planet of the Apes).
>
> Any comments you would like to make about chapter 1 or maybe you have
> done some sketches you can now share with us using your infamous
> scanner?
>
>

> It is my belief that to truly grasp POTA in its entirety, the first
> thing is to look at Boulle's novel (which can be interpreted as Monkey
> Planet ot Planet of the Apes).
>
> Any comments you would like to make about chapter 1 or maybe you have
> done some sketches you can now share with us using your infamous
> scanner?
>
>

> I would like to START with the "Original Timeline Prequel".
>

> OK - with you having read BTB you will now hopefully see what Neil

> and he is "signed up" to do the artwork.
>
> Originally we used Dave Ballard's stories and they are "stand alone"
> stories.
>
> Next is a story entitled "monument", a 22 page story from the TV

> environment (written by Dave Ballard). He has also done a script

> story (forgot the name) about a "Bunty Hunter" named "Juba" in the

> environment (but no Galen, B or V is in this story). We will do

> because Neil and I are big Sergio Leone fans and the comic will

> "spaghetti western" feel about it.
>
> Dave has dropped out of the comic story team now - extra workloads -

> is now myself and Chris Lawless, with Rich Handley (who has written

> star wars comics) doing the writing.
>
> I want to map out a "Bible" before we get started (Chris has done a

> intelligent timeline...except he includes "return" and I wouln't!)

> would like to START with the "Original Timeline Prequel".
>
> More soon.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Haristas@a... [Haristas@a...]
> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 7:51 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: [New PotaDG member
>
>
> In a message dated 9/19/04 4:59:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> whitty@c... writes:
>
>
> > It is my belief that to truly grasp POTA in its entirety, the

> > thing is to look at Boulle's novel (which can be interpreted as

> > Planet ot Planet of the Apes).
> >
> > Any comments you would like to make about chapter 1 or maybe you

> > done some sketches you can now share with us using your infamous
> > scanner?
> >
> >
>
> No, I don't have anything.
>
> What's this about you working on a saga that takes place during the

> pre-history in the original timeline?
>
> -- Rory
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

>

> anion.yahoo.com> click here
>
> <http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?

> :HM/A=2128215/rand=881706380>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/>
>
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of

> <
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Thanks Kasey/Undomiel!
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:20 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] New file uploaded to PotaDG
>
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
> group.
>
> File : /Stranger.doc
> Uploaded by : hidalgo_girl05 <elfgirl_06@c...>
> Description : TV Fan fiction by Kasey/Undomiel and SSS 979.
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Stranger.doc
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Stranger.doc>
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
> <http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files>
>
> Regards,
>
> hidalgo_girl05 <elfgirl_06@c...>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Thanks Kasey/Undomiel!
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 11:20 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] New file uploaded to PotaDG
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@y...>
> To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:49 PM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: [Dogs
>
>
> >
> > To my mind, the dog was purposeful. I don't feel the writers were
> drenched in canon before they wrote the script (insert cynical

> surely they knew the major points of the movies? The dog was quite
> prominent, almost as if to make a point, to say, "and the tv show is
> different from the movies because of..."
> >
> > Kass

> It does seem the dog was put in there intentionally to make a
> statement (as Kass suggests) rather than to enhance the plot. The
> story could have been written easily enough without the dog! And
> anyone following the movies KNEW there were no dogs or cats.
>
> --Helen
>

> I can see Ursus -- who probably doesn't like chimpanzees all that

> It does seem the dog was put in there intentionally to make a
> statement (as Kass suggests) rather than to enhance the plot. The
> story could have been written easily enough without the dog! And
> anyone following the movies KNEW there were no dogs or cats.
>
> --Helen
>
>
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Kassidy Rae" <valwp@y...>
> > To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Friday, September 17, 2004 9:49 PM
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: [Dogs
> >
> >
> > >
> > > To my mind, the dog was purposeful. I don't feel the writers

> > >
> > > Kass

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 9/20/04 7:21:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
>
> > It does seem the dog was put in there intentionally to make a
> > statement (as Kass suggests) rather than to enhance the plot.
The
> > story could have been written easily enough without the dog! And
> > anyone following the movies KNEW there were no dogs or cats.
> >
> > --Helen
> >
>
> So, what's the statement?
>
> -- Rory
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Did the TV show's writers meticulously go through all 5 movies

> they started writing their stories?
>
> Patrick
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

>
> And why would they even WANT to "make a statement" that distanced
> their new show from the established movies? The whole point of it

> to make MORE of these POTA shows -- to give fans of the movies
> something else to see. Their audience was POTA fans, and there were

> lot of 'em. Why jerk 'em around purposely? Was that something the
> fans would WANT to have happen?
>
> Patrick
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

> This is strange. It is almost as if Dehn, when he wrote the "We

>
> And why would they even WANT to "make a statement" that distanced
> their new show from the established movies? The whole point of it

> to make MORE of these POTA shows -- to give fans of the movies
> something else to see. Their audience was POTA fans, and there were

> lot of 'em. Why jerk 'em around purposely? Was that something the
> fans would WANT to have happen?
>
> Patrick
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

>
> And why would they even WANT to "make a statement" that distanced
> their new show from the established movies? The whole point of it

> to make MORE of these POTA shows -- to give fans of the movies
> something else to see. Their audience was POTA fans, and there were

> lot of 'em. Why jerk 'em around purposely? Was that something the
> fans would WANT to have happen?
>
> Patrick
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------

> ps- if I was the writer, i would have shown birds flying away from

>
> ----------
> From: ron kenner[SMTP:BRINDLEPIT2002@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 7:47:46 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Play-Mate of the Apes (2002) Item number:
> 6308081519
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

> I can see Ursus -- who probably doesn't like chimpanzees all that

> And we would LOVE to hear what you guys think of it. Good or bad so please
> speak up and tell us! Glad that this is all out in the open and we aren't mad
> at each other anymore. Ouch... that was bad. Apologies to everyone!
>
> Kasey/Undomiel
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
> Maybe the statement is that apes have evolved to the point that
they have
> luxuries such as pets? Elaine
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> ----------
> From: taebokitti@...[SMTP:TAEBOKITTI@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 3:08:50 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Boulle's Novel (Planet of the Apes - or

> Planet?) Chapter 2
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>
>From reading this chapter, I gather that the astronauts plan on being

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
> Maybe the statement is that apes have evolved to the point that
they have
> luxuries such as pets? Elaine
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> That may be, but they can't have cats and dogs because they were
> killed off. They could have pets like a goldfish or a little bunny
> rabbit.
>
> amyg
>

> That may be, but they can't have cats and dogs because they were
> killed off. They could have pets like a goldfish or a little bunny
> rabbit.
>
> amyg
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Will Hoover <will5967@v...> wrote:

Will, there is so much wrong with your message I don't even know where to
begin. Briefly...

1: I think I've only ever heard ONE single person who has ever tried to fit every
single incarnation of POTA into a single unified whole.

2: No one has ever said you should like any or all of the comics simply
because they have POTA plastered all over them. It believe all that was ever
suggested was that it was perhaps unfortunate that you were obviously
judging a book by its cover and condemning them without reading them first

3: Some feel it is not quite so obvious that the TV show was intended to be set
in a different universe. Thier opinion should be respected as they hopefully
respect yours.

4: I have never heard anyone, EVER, express the opinion that ' every single
story that EVER had the name Planet of the Apes plastered on them must
inevitably become part of a vast, intricate cannon,'

5: You claim 'I respect you all' but in the same message make accustations of
'Fanboy flights of fancy'. Excuse me, but I don't find that very respectful at all.

6: You say "Maybe that's why a silly little scene with a dog in a thirty year old
T.V. series bothers you so much. " Just for the record could you point to a
single person that has ever claimed this scene 'bothers' them. There has been
some good natured discussion of various interpretations of this scene but the
only person who appears to be getting hot under the collar is yourself.

7: You make a point for being rational, I would argue that we are dealing with
a series of stories that feature talking apes, time travel, Mutant humans,
mysterious 'pet plagues from space' ressurections of sunken spaceship by
primitive cultures etc. I think rationality left the building some time ago.

I, and others have said time and time again that POTA can be shaped to suit
the individual. After reading your message I am left with the impression that
such an opinion suits you fine, just as long as I accept that I am wrong.

The TV series is in the same universe or it's not - I personally like to believe
that it is but ultimately it makes no difference to me or anyone. The world will
keep on turning

Dave B

> I have just posted Chapter 1 again. Most of us have already read

> Neil is actually doing some illustrating as we go that you should

>
> ----------
> From: Neil[SMTP:NFOSTER@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 9:22:11 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Boulle's Novel
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

> I have just posted Chapter 1 again. Most of us have already read

> Neil is actually doing some illustrating as we go that you should

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster@b...> wrote:
>
> 7: You make a point for being rational, I would argue that we are
dealing with
> a series of stories that feature talking apes, time travel, Mutant
humans,
> mysterious 'pet plagues from space' ressurections of sunken
spaceship by
> primitive cultures etc. I think rationality left the building some
time ago.
>
> Dave B

> on 9/21/04 7:05 PM, Whitty, Michael at Michael.Whitty@d... wrote:
>
> You will find in MANY movies and TV Shows that dogs bark/animals

>
> Michael
>
> Exactly! Finally! SOMEONE is thinking rationally!
>
> Will