I'd either contact eBay directly and report this, or contact the
seller and tell him that you're wondering what eBay's policy is on
selling fraudulent items and that you were going to write and ask
them. :-)

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:

>Look at this picture... There is a SCI-FI Channel logo on it!!! Evans
>was deceased before that network ever existed, yet he signed a photo
>with it's logo on it? Someone on eBay had better get their sh*t
>straight...


> eBay item 3860025630 (Ends Dec-19-04 14:51:00 PST) - MAURICE EVANS
SIGNED BENEATH THE PLANET OF APES

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Chris Lawless <lawford42@j...> wrote:

> So it bears repeating: kudos to everyone involved in bringing this

story to life. You've dome something to be proud of.

-- Thanks Chris, we had a lot of fun doing it and I for one am very
proud of it.

Neil

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In a message dated 12/16/2004 10:48:19 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I don't miss my cassette tapes, and no matter how nostalgic I get for the days of my childhood

Me neither.

In fact they're still around here in a box someplace!

<.html

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In a message dated 12/16/2004 11:07:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Someone on eBay had better get their sh*t straight...

 

Hey, I once bought a Kim Hunter portrait from Sardis,

you know the Restaurant?  I once asked Kim about it.

It was a complete fake.  How obscure is that?  She

said her portrait is hanging in Sardis, but that wasn't

it.  I thought about sicking eBay on the seller, but

then how many people have a genuine Kim Hunter

Sardis portrait forgery.  I'm guessing just one!

 

 

<.html

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In a message dated 12/17/2004 12:08:19 A.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

They are probably eating healthy on the run, no sugar, caffeine or booze.

 

I'd have to agree that they'd end up skin & bones.

SEALs eat a lot when they train.  Whole sticks

of butter even.  They do so much PT they burn

it all off.  It's not just the exercise.  It's the cold.

On the other hand, we don't know how much

help they're getting.  If they're just walking from

place to place to place and getting three squares

a day they could probably handle the occasional

fight.  Those gorillas didn't look like Attar.  They

just looked like average guys, and not tough ones.

 

 

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In a message dated 12/17/2004 12:16:36 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

acpabilityu

Is that an aboriginal word?

I once hear some explorers

asked what the hopping

animal with the pouch was

called and the Aborigine

said, Kangaroo.  Which

means . . . I don't know.

 

 

 

 

<.html

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Oh yeah, about that Sardi's forgery . . .

Kim didn't think the caricature  was

very flattering.

 

<.html

Did you guys ever check out the unfinished Matt Sotis
fan made film? Made about 10 years ago it involves 4
gorillas that find Brent's ship and fly it back to the
1970s. Even though the film isn't done Matt still
sells copies. It's worth checking out. His email
address is:

msotis@...


Chris Hight



__________________________________

.html.html In a message dated 12/17/04 12:07:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Look at this picture... There is a SCI-FI Channel logo on it!!! Evans was deceased before that network ever existed, yet he signed a photo with it's logo on it? Someone on eBay had better get their sh*t straight...

Poor Maurice.... I hope his ghost is putting a hex on this walking pestilence.

-- Rory<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Well, you just won another one.
>
> Oh, the irony!
>
> Hey Patrick - did you ever get your copy?
>
> Michael

*** Nope. If you have another one lyin' around, send it to my current
address at:

PATRICK TILTON
4910 15th Avenue SW #104
Fargo, ND 58103

And, to quote Cornelius, "Don't dawdle!"

;(|)

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/16/04 9:32:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> nfoster@h... writes:
>
> > I listened to that tape for weeks after that replaying the movie

in my mind. We are so much luckier these days with DVDs and videos
but I wish I still had that cassette tape!

> >
> > Neil

--------------------------------------------------------------

> I don't miss my cassette tapes, and no matter how nostalgic I get

for the days of my childhood, I'm still very glad for the DVDs and
widescreen TVs of today. As a film buff these are the best of times,
right Michael Whitty?

>
> -- Rory

---------------------------------------------------------------

*** The techno-wizardry involved in both the making of movies and the
production of DVDs of 'em is wonderful... but I'd give almost
anything for Hollywood to come up with some movies that were
original, worth-watching, and worth spending all the time WE spend
decades after-the-fact being fans. They had all the money they needed
to make the "re-imagining" of POTA a stupendous film -- and at least
the guys who did all the CGI work earned their wages -- but the
movie, in the end, was utter crap. Hollywood's been making remakes
almost as long as they've been making movies -- hell, even "THE
WIZARD OF OZ" that most people know was a re-make of a black-&-white
film that almost NOBODY remembers.

I'd rather watch "CONQUEST" and "BATTLE" -- notwithstanding their
lesser production values (due, remember, to their lesser budgets) --
than all the glitzy mediocrity that tends to make it to the theaters
today. And I'd rather watch "PLANET" (etc) on a crappy old B&W TV set
like the one I first saw it on (Man! those were the days!), than
watch on an HDTV set a pristine DVD of the crappiest current movie
made with a billion-dollar budget by hacks who don't have a clue
about how to tell a story -- or even know what makes a story worth
telling in the first place. "VAN HELSING", anybody? Blech! Hell, give
me one-hundredth of that movie's budget and I'd make an entire
season's worth of POTA "episodes" based on my own POTA scenario! It
may not have as many CGI effects as "VAN HELSING" did, but so what? I
don't go to movies to "ooh!" and "ahh!" at the glitzy effects -- I go
to see a story told well by professionals. All the POTA movies were
exactly that -- and their lower budgetary constraints forced them to
focus more on their stories: they had to see what they could do with
the limited means at their disposal. If they had had bigger and
bigger budgets, they may have made some "shots" that would've been
cool to look at, but would they have bothered telling as great a
story? Or, would they have gone for SPECTACLE, for "show", and
expected audiences to go for it the same way the Bond franchise
churned out "MOONRAKER" (easily the worst of the Bond films) and
expected it to be "consumed" by the public?

The best films for "film buffs" to buy, nowadays, are the better
OLDER films that are being released on modern formats (DVDs, etc).
It's rare to see a true gem, like that exception-to-the-rule
movie "THE INCREDIBLES". Now THAT is a modern classic. It's one of
the few new-releases that I'll eagerly buy on DVD. But "BLADE:
TRINITY"...? Yawn. Not worth the matinee price. Just "more-of-the-
same".

Hmmm... I'm ranting. I'll stop now.

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/16/2004 11:07:09 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> mlccougar@a... writes:
>
> Someone on eBay had better get their sh*t straight...
>
>
> Hey, I once bought a Kim Hunter portrait from Sardis,
> you know the Restaurant? I once asked Kim about it.
> It was a complete fake. How obscure is that? She
> said her portrait is hanging in Sardis, but that wasn't
> it. I thought about sicking eBay on the seller, but
> then how many people have a genuine Kim Hunter
> Sardis portrait forgery. I'm guessing just one!

-----------------------------------------------------------------
*** This is off-topic (sorry), but I've become one of the most avid
fans of Bobby Darin in recent years. Yes, I'm looking forward to
seeing "BEYOND THE SEA", in which Kevin Spacey portrays Darin -- he
does a fair job with singing the tunes: I bought the soundtrack and
it's pretty good.

Anyway, one of the more recent CDs out is called "BOBBY DARIN: ACES
BACK TO BACK!", released by Hyena Records. It's paired with a "bonus
DVD", which seems to be the same stuff that was released on DVD
recently as "THE MACK IS BACK" -- the last episode of Bobby Darin's
variety show. When his show got the axe, Bobby made the last episode
just one big concert. The CD opens with a kick-ASS version of "This
Could Be The Start Of Something Big". There's a verse in it that goes:

"You're up in an aero-plane, or dinin' at Sardis,
Or lyin' in Malibu, your toes in the sand..."

I think it was Steve Allen who wrote that song (the liner notes
say "S. Allen", and I know he wrote over a thousand tunes). Anyway,
when you (LordT) mentioned that "genuine Kim Hunter Sardis portrait
forgery", I heard Bobby Darin's voice beltin' out that finger-
snappin' tune and...

Not only am I rather nostalgic for the days when Hollywood churned
out better movies with pre-CGI technology... but I'm not as big a fan
of the music that gets air-play today. There's so much crap that gets
on the radio today, that I'd rather just listen to swingin' standards
by guys like Bobby Darin and Sinatra (etc). The CD mentioned above
doesn't have the greatest audio clarity -- it's the literal "sound-
track" from the TV show, which is probably taken from a videotape.
It's mono, and sounds like it came out of a 30-year-old TV set
runnin' on vacuum tubes! But you forgive it all that when you hear
that cat's talent. The types who do well on "AMERICAN IDOL" are, at
best, third-rate when compared to somebody like Bobby Darin.

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/14/2004 10:14:56 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> *** I think Mandemus' line -- "27 years" since the Armory became

his home -- does make it impossible for Cornelius to be the child
born from the Breeding Annex "rutting". He's just a boy, not a 26-or-
27 year old adult in "BATTLE".

> ------------------------------------------------------------
> So how old does that make Caesar? Especially old I'd say. About 50,

which is old for present day un-genetically modified apes. If Virgil
was his student when he was a boy then he must be half Caesar's age.
And he must have learned an awful lot very quickly to pull that off,
since he's older than Caesar. Next!
================================================================
*** I think you're confusing a couple characters, T. If "BATTLE"
takes place (at the earliest) "27 years" after "CONQUEST", that would
place it in the year 2018, when Caesar would be 45 years old.

But Virgil was not Caesar's student -- he was Mandemus' student --
and he, then, "must be half MANDEMUS' age". The conundrum is in
explaining how an ape who is OLDER than Caesar (Mandemus) could have
been intelligent and able-to-talk YEARS before the Ape-onauts landed
on Earth in 1973. In my scenario, of course, I'm having Mandemus be
one of many apes whose genome had been tampered with in late-1947 by
certain non-human intelligences who had been stirred up by events
transpiring in early-1947... The DNA of certain groups of great apes
has added to it "transgenic" genes -- genes either from other
species, or specifically-tailored gene sequences artificially
produced -- which, when introduced into the developing embryo causes
the individual to be born a mutant: a creature SIMILAR to a simian,
yet with certain so-called "evolved" traits, including different
physiological morphology, brain-to-body mass ratios, etc.

The gorillas in POTA are NOT like "primitive" gorillas. Ursus didn't
knuckle-walk -- nor COULD he have done so. His torso and limbs are
the result of a morphological change made to his distant ancestors,
some 2000 years earlier, which caused his body to take on a
morphology more akin to that of a human -- including bipedalism. The
body had to be smaller so that his ape's brain could be
correspondingly larger in comparison -- large enough to give him a
capacity for intelligence comparable to a modern human.

Thus... it ain't so hard for Virdon & Burke to best them in a fight.
The bigger they are, the harder they fall. And the apes don't know
judo. Nor, remember, did Tolar, whom Burke beat in the gladiatorial
arena using that bigger guy's weight against him with all those up-
and-over flips, etc.

If a REAL gorilla were to try to ride on a horse's back, I doubt the
horse would be able to gallop, or even trot. The POTA gorillas can
ride horses because they have SMALLER body mass than their pre-
transgenic ancestors.

Patrick

.html

In a message dated 12/17/2004 10:51:39 A.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Fargo, ND 58103

 

How's the weather up there in Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

 

<.html

.html

    Hey Patrick,

 

You seem to know everything about everything.

Who was that teen idol pop star that turned out

to be a woman?  Now that's a movie I'd go see.

Apparently no one know until the autopsy, even

the wife.

 

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "John O." <jspy@w...> wrote:

>
> Patrick, are you subscribing to the circular timeline? Or a

circular with diversion then merger timeline?

>
> What about when Cornelius is explaining his finds at the cave in

Planet - when he says the finding at this level date back some 1300
years... a stage of primitive barbarism. If they could speak for 700
years, I doubt they would still be in this stage. This would back up
his "statements to Hasslein's interrogators about there being
centuries between the enslavement of Apes and their achievement of
speech."

>
> John O.

*** Let's try this again. Argh! I just accidentally deleted a huge
Reply to this post, and I'll have a go at it again.

Yes, John, I'm a Circular Timeline subscriber. Zaius tells
Taylor, "All my life I've awaited YOUR COMING and dreaded it, like
Death itself!" He KNEW Taylor would show up on the scene in his
lifetime. How could he know this? Taylor's mission had been one of
colonization of a planet 320 lightyears away from Earth -- ANSA
hadn't intended for Taylor to get back to Earth. He only came back to
Earth -- unwittingly -- when something went wrong with his voyage and
the ship somehow got back... and Zaius' ancestors couldn't have known
he would get back to Earth unless they also knew about Taylor's
voyage having somehow gotten sent back to Earth contrary to its
mission program.

It was TAYLOR'S SHIP HAVING GONE BACK TO EARTH -- with its computer
files and chronometer data -- that clued people in to the fact that
Taylor's ship did NOT reach its destination and STAY THERE, but in
fact somehow zipped BACK to Earth. They ONLY knew then, AFTER the Ape-
onauts appear out of Nowhere in 1973, that Taylor's ship eventually
DID get back to Earth, in 3955, and THEN time-travel back to 1973 a
short "ship-time" later.

Zaius KNEW that a spaceship carrying astronaut humans would arrive on-
the-scene in his lifetime. This information ONLY became available to
his society's ancestors when Caesar went to the Forbidden City to see
the Archives tape of his Ape-onaut parents, who TOLD him about the
spaceship with the "thirty-nine fifty... something" date on the "date
meter". Caesar heard his mom's voice say "3950--" (the "something"
cut off), and assumed that "in the year Thirty-Nine Fifty, apes will
destroy the Earth!" "Not apes," Virgil says, "... gorillas."

Zaius has had access to "the history scrolls kept hidden from the
masses" -- the "Secret Scrolls" that Zaius himself hid from the
others, since he was the "guardian of the Terrible Secret" (as Taylor
called him). Zaius knew about the Pet Plague, the enslavement of
primitive apes by civilized Man, the ape named Aldo who said "No" to
a human; Zaius would ALSO have known about the Ape-onauts whose son
Caesar led the Apes out of the evil city prior to the time when
Man "made a desert of" the "paradise" that once existed, before it
became a "Forbidden Zone". Zaius knew about the Ape-onauts because
THEY had come back through Time in a spaceship that left the
year "3950" and ended up in their past, in "1973". A spaceship once
commanded by a human astronaut, whose "coming" he -- the last in a
long line of Zaiuses -- would live to see.

It was never Taylor's mission plan to GO to its destination 320
lightyears away and THEN to later go BACK to Earth, to arrive in the
40th Century. Taylor -- seeing the Earth-Time clock read "11-25-
3978" -- interprets that date as meaning that they arrived at their
destination. Zaius couldn't have expected his arrival unless the time-
loop had occurred in the past, with the arrival out-of-Nowhere of the
Ape-onauts from the Future... in Taylor's spaceship.

Ya got that?!

One other thing: the "primitive barbarism" of the Apes from about
1,300 years prior to "PLANET" mentioned by Cornelius.

The apes who left their bones in that cave were "carnivorous
gorillas", remember. The timeframe puts it just a century before the
writing of the anti-human "Sacred Scrolls" by the human-hating
Lawgiver. Zaius told Taylor that the Sacred Scrolls were
written "twelve hundred years ago" -- i.e. about 2755 (3955 minus
1200).

A century or so before this puts us in the mid-2600s. The book-end
scenes of "BATTLE" take place in 2670, where intelligent Orangutans,
Chimpanzees and Humans live in peace...

... but there are NO GORILLAS in his audience. Why not? Where might
they be?

An ape named Aldo was the first to murder an ape -- a violation of
their "most sacred law". "Ape shall never kill Ape". A GORILLA had
been the first murderer. From hence, ALL gorillas would have the
taint of being the "type" of ape who became the "Cain" of their
sacred history.

I can imagine -- and my POTA scenario has it -- that some, perhaps
most, of the gorillas eventually got sick and tired of the human-
loving society of Apes... and became "splitters". They went off to
live in their own areas, "uncontaminated" by the presence of humans.

Some of these "splitters" -- not benefitting from the "blessings of
liberty" enjoyed by the Ape-&-Human co-existing groups -- would have
a hard time surviving. Humans and chimps, at least, know how to do
agricultural work... but the gorillas? No: they prefer to pluck the
fruit from the trees...

... but when the food runs out, they have to find SOME way to get
food. So... they resort to CARNIVORISM. They use "arrowheads of
quartz" shot from bows to kill animals to eat. For all we know, when
they run out of game, they might even wind up resorting to the most
repugnant form of carnivorism there is: CANNIBALISM. All because they
don't want to live with other apes who tolerate the hated humans.

They are in a stage of "primitive barbarism", then, because they
REVERTED to barbarism, after having come from a society which had
been speaking English since the late 20th Century. Their own racism
led them to their barbaric end.

But SOME gorillas did NOT end up reverting to barbarism. Instead,
they rejoined their simian brothers and sisters... but on different
terms. After 2670, and before 2755, the gorillas learned how to make
their own guns. And that changed EVERYTHING.

They didn't have to break into Caesar's old Armory in order to
acquire 700-year-old machine guns and rifles made in Pre-Cataclysm
times by humans. They acquired the ability to make their OWN guns,
like the ones we see in "PLANET" and "BENEATH". When these gorillas
had their guns, they then conquered the Ape-and-Human civilization
that had been living in low-tech harmony, killing off the uppity
humans (and any ape who dared take up arms against another ape on
behalf of a human) and enslaving the terrorized docile humans.

Once they imposed their new human-hating/subjugating will on ALL Apes
and Humans, the gorillas also went out of their way to REWRITE their
historical "scriptures" -- or, to have preexisting scriptures
rewritten by others... or by one specific other: an orangutan who
would come to be known as THE Lawgiver. The Lawgiver to end all
lawgivers. The simian Muhammad; just as Muhammad is claimed by
Muslims to be God's FINAL and greatest prophet, with his scripture
(the Quran) supposedly in precedence over the non-Islamic scriptures
written by other "People of the Book" (i.e. Jews and Christians), so
too is the Lawgiver alive in 2755 the one who will write a NEW
scripture that will not only clean up the role of Aldo as the first
murderer, but will also obliterate any textual evidence that Man ever
had a civilization to begin with.

Of course, ANY other writings that contradict this new dogma would be
declared anathema -- heretical writings to be burnt in massive book-
burnings. Those who wanted to preserve such writings would have to
hide them away, as the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi
scriptures written by the Coptic Gnostics were hidden away, only to
be found in 1945-to-1947.

Somebody DID preserve those "Secret Scrolls" though... and that
somebody was probably Zaius (just as the Vatican's secret archives
probably contains all the Coptic scriptures that the rest of the
world found out about only recently). He knew -- from having read
them -- that the world would be destroyed in "3950"... and when his
own lifetime actually SAW that year arrive, 5 years before the
arrival of Taylor, he must have had a major anxiety attack. Perhaps
he began to question his expectation, when Doomsday did NOT transpire
that year... or the next... or the next... or the next... or the
next...

... but then the Hunt Club brings him a TALKING HUMAN named "Landon"!
And Zaius must have interrogated him -- keeping him out of sight of
any of the simian masses who've been kept in the dark about the Truth
of their planet's Past.

Zaius KNEW that talking humans -- flying in a vehicle that can travel
through outer space -- would arrive in his lifetime. The same source
for THAT information ALSO told him that the world would be destroyed
shortly afterward. How do I know this?

When Ursus has his gorilla soldiers get out "Rope! Block-and-
tackle!", in order to pull down the gleaming metallic THING that the
talking human had called "the instrument of my God", Zaius says of it:

"IT WILL KILL US ALL!"

How does he know that? Mendez doesn't call it a "bomb". Zaius would
know the meaning of the word "bomb", I suspect, but Mendez never
calls it that. He calls it "the INSTRUMENT of my God".

Zaius must somehow know that GORILLAS would destroy the Earth...
using an artifact from the Human-dominated era 2,000 years ago --
since he and his ancestors have effectively kept Apes in a horse-and-
buggy stage of civilization all the while. No APE could ever devise
such an "instrument" of mass-destruction... but MAN once did, and
something built long ago by THEM would be the only thing that MIGHT
be able to destroy the world.

It was Zira's TAPED voice which revealed that an army of GORILLAS
went to war prior to the destruction of the Earth. And after Caesar
told his friends, "No WONDER all mankind thirsted for my blood and
wanted my birth aborted! Apes in 3950 will destroy the Earth!",
Virgil "corrected" him by saying, "Not apes, Caesar: GORILLAS."

Zaius goes "into the Forbidden Zone, with Ursus" because he KNOWS the
world will be destroyed due to a war propagated by gorillas, as a
time-traveling Ape-onaut had revealed. THAT is why Zaius knows that
the THING in the subterranean cathedral is a bomb capable of killing
ALL of them. It doesn't have the word "BOMB" written on it -- all it
has are the two Greek letters, Alpha and Omega, on one of the fins.
Zaius knows that THIS is the very thing that WILL destroy the world...

... unless he can somehow prevent it from being triggered. That's why
he went with Ursus -- to try to prevent an ALL-GORILLA force from
fulfilling Zira's taped "prophecy". He, an orangutan, just MIGHT be
able to avert Doomsday...

... but his hatred of the species who built the Doomsday Bomb seizes
control of his mind. Rather than help Taylor... help him to dismantle
the Bomb... he hurls an insult at all Mankind: "Man is evil --
capable of NOTHING BUT DESTRUCTION!"

And thus, Zaius' race-hatred -- like that of the gorilla splitters
who wound up dying off in the Cave after reverting to carnivorous
barbarism -- leads to not only HIS end, but the end of EVERYTHING.

Zaius dies knowing that at least TWO apes -- the parents of the ape
who would come to be known as Caesar, before his history was erased
by the Lawgiver who wrote the Sacred Scrolls -- would somehow witness
the destruction of the world from the windows of Taylor's spaceship,
prior to going back through Time... to begin the Circle. Does he know
that those two apes are Zira and Cornelius? Probably not: Cornelius
and Zira also acquired access to those Secret Scrolls, and they
would've reacted to the revelation that THEY THEMSELVES would become
time-travellers, their son to become the one to lead the fight
against enslavement by humans in the distant past...

The Lawgiver mentions the name "Caesar" -- and refers to his "parent
apes" who came to us out of the Future, etc. I suspect that the text
read by Zaius and Cornelius and Zira did NOT give the names of the
Ape-onauts, but only referred to the "parent apes". After they time-
travelled back to 1973, though, Cornelius and Zira would have to have
eventually come to understand that THEY THEMSELVES were the ones
written of in that pre-Sacred Scrolls scroll. They don't fully
realize that they've gone back through Time until Milo says, "I know
what has happened," and then tells them. For all they knew, before
that conversation in the cage with Milo, they might be back on the
planet they just left -- but SOMEWHERE ELSE, perhaps on the other
side of the world, where humans can still talk and have wondrous
technology, and all that.

But Milo reminds them about the "date meter" -- how it clicked
backward after the shockwave hit their ship. NOW they remember... and
afterwards, perhaps, Cornelius and Zira come to realize that THEY
will be fulfilling the ancient story from that heretical scripture...

They complete the circle.

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/17/2004 10:51:39 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> Fargo, ND 58103
>
>
>
>
> How's the weather up there in Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

*** When I was a kid, I remember there being blizzards in late
October, in November, etc etc. So far, this year, we've only had one
real snowfall, and that's IT. There's ice on the roads, but not
drifts of snow making road travel impossible. Maybe there's something
to the Global Warming theory after all...

Don't get me wrong: it's cold up here -- below 32 Fahrenheit. But
it's survivable. Of course, if I ever win the Powerball lotto, I'm
high-tailin' it SOUTH and WEST. California, baybee! I'll pay Jeffie
to give me a tour of all the POTA sites -- the Fox Ranch, Century
City, the beach where Cornelius' cave was filmed, etc. Then I'll
shell out a few million of the hundreds of millions I'd win to get
the rights to make a POTA movie... and then WATCH OUT! I'd get Bill
Blake and Paula Crist to play Cornelius and Zira, like they did way
back when...

Patrick

Hey. Thanks for posting the downloadable versions of your new comic
stories. I've been telling some of the guys at the Local Comic shop
about them and they where all curious... but not Apes fan enough to
take the time to visit and join the group. I showed them the couple
of pages and they where all really impressed. Most of them had been
by my house and had seen the Beware the Beast comic and all loved the
artwork from a comic fan and artist point of view. I'm trying to use
your stories to hook them and help them understand why I'm such an
Apes fan. Thanks again!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> Hey Patrick,
>
> You seem to know everything about everything.
> Who was that teen idol pop star that turned out
> to be a woman? Now that's a movie I'd go see.
> Apparently no one knew until the autopsy, even
> the wife.

*** Hmmm... unlike Virgil the Orangutan, I don't know everything
about everything, alas. I don't know whom you're referring to, but it
reminds me of the E! Channel's program they did on Wayne Newton. Way
back when, he started out doing talent-search stuff -- Bobby Darin
himself gave him his first break -- and he had a very girlie-sounding
voice. Remember "DANKE SCHOEN"? Hell, I thought that song was sung by
a girl for the longest time... until I heard some DJ refer to it as
being sung by "Wayne" somebody.

Anyway, Johnny Carson used to make all sorts of gay-jokes about Wayne
Newton in his TONIGHT Show monologues, and it pissed off Mr. Newton
to the point where he stormed into Carson's office in Burbank and
told him, "If you make one more f***ing joke about me being gay, I'll
beat the living s*** out of you!"

And Carson stopped making those jokes. And Wayne Newton got a voice
coach to train him on how to alter the pitch of his voice, so he
wouldn't sound so girlie anymore.

I also remember hearing Sinatra -- in one of the Rat Pack concert
CDs -- refer to Johnny Mathis as "the African Queen".

But I don't know what teen idol you're referring to, one who actually
WAS a girl. I know that one of the "Bond girls" in "MOONRAKER" was
actually formerly a man who had undergone a sex-change operation.
Aside from the John Barry score, though, I don't think much of that
flick, and don't want to watch it again just to see if I can spot the
faux-chick.

Patrick

Thanks, that explains how this fits into your theory.
Shouldn't you be putting this on a website or something?

Did you notice in the script when Cornelius was talking about the
primitive barbarism, the quartz arrow head were part of the same
find, but in the movie, he made it seem like a different level?

John

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John O." <jspy@w...> wrote:
> >
> > Patrick, are you subscribing to the circular timeline? Or a
> circular with diversion then merger timeline?
> >
> > What about when Cornelius is explaining his finds at the cave in
> Planet - when he says the finding at this level date back some 1300
> years... a stage of primitive barbarism. If they could speak for

700

> years, I doubt they would still be in this stage. This would back

up

> his "statements to Hasslein's interrogators about there being
> centuries between the enslavement of Apes and their achievement of
> speech."
> >
> > John O.
>
> *** Let's try this again. Argh! I just accidentally deleted a huge
> Reply to this post, and I'll have a go at it again.
>
> Yes, John, I'm a Circular Timeline subscriber. Zaius tells
> Taylor, "All my life I've awaited YOUR COMING and dreaded it, like
> Death itself!" He KNEW Taylor would show up on the scene in his
> lifetime. How could he know this? Taylor's mission had been one of
> colonization of a planet 320 lightyears away from Earth -- ANSA
> hadn't intended for Taylor to get back to Earth. He only came back

to

> Earth -- unwittingly -- when something went wrong with his voyage

and

> the ship somehow got back... and Zaius' ancestors couldn't have

known

> he would get back to Earth unless they also knew about Taylor's
> voyage having somehow gotten sent back to Earth contrary to its
> mission program.
>
> It was TAYLOR'S SHIP HAVING GONE BACK TO EARTH -- with its computer
> files and chronometer data -- that clued people in to the fact that
> Taylor's ship did NOT reach its destination and STAY THERE, but in
> fact somehow zipped BACK to Earth. They ONLY knew then, AFTER the

Ape-

> onauts appear out of Nowhere in 1973, that Taylor's ship eventually
> DID get back to Earth, in 3955, and THEN time-travel back to 1973 a
> short "ship-time" later.
>
> Zaius KNEW that a spaceship carrying astronaut humans would arrive

on-

> the-scene in his lifetime. This information ONLY became available

to

> his society's ancestors when Caesar went to the Forbidden City to

see

> the Archives tape of his Ape-onaut parents, who TOLD him about the
> spaceship with the "thirty-nine fifty... something" date on

the "date

> meter". Caesar heard his mom's voice say "3950--" (the "something"
> cut off), and assumed that "in the year Thirty-Nine Fifty, apes

will

> destroy the Earth!" "Not apes," Virgil says, "... gorillas."
>
> Zaius has had access to "the history scrolls kept hidden from the
> masses" -- the "Secret Scrolls" that Zaius himself hid from the
> others, since he was the "guardian of the Terrible Secret" (as

Taylor

> called him). Zaius knew about the Pet Plague, the enslavement of
> primitive apes by civilized Man, the ape named Aldo who said "No"

to

> a human; Zaius would ALSO have known about the Ape-onauts whose son
> Caesar led the Apes out of the evil city prior to the time when
> Man "made a desert of" the "paradise" that once existed, before it
> became a "Forbidden Zone". Zaius knew about the Ape-onauts because
> THEY had come back through Time in a spaceship that left the
> year "3950" and ended up in their past, in "1973". A spaceship once
> commanded by a human astronaut, whose "coming" he -- the last in a
> long line of Zaiuses -- would live to see.
>
> It was never Taylor's mission plan to GO to its destination 320
> lightyears away and THEN to later go BACK to Earth, to arrive in

the

> 40th Century. Taylor -- seeing the Earth-Time clock read "11-25-
> 3978" -- interprets that date as meaning that they arrived at their
> destination. Zaius couldn't have expected his arrival unless the

time-

> loop had occurred in the past, with the arrival out-of-Nowhere of

the

> Ape-onauts from the Future... in Taylor's spaceship.
>
> Ya got that?!
>
> One other thing: the "primitive barbarism" of the Apes from about
> 1,300 years prior to "PLANET" mentioned by Cornelius.
>
> The apes who left their bones in that cave were "carnivorous
> gorillas", remember. The timeframe puts it just a century before

the

> writing of the anti-human "Sacred Scrolls" by the human-hating
> Lawgiver. Zaius told Taylor that the Sacred Scrolls were
> written "twelve hundred years ago" -- i.e. about 2755 (3955 minus
> 1200).
>
> A century or so before this puts us in the mid-2600s. The book-end
> scenes of "BATTLE" take place in 2670, where intelligent

Orangutans,

> Chimpanzees and Humans live in peace...
>
> ... but there are NO GORILLAS in his audience. Why not? Where might
> they be?
>
> An ape named Aldo was the first to murder an ape -- a violation of
> their "most sacred law". "Ape shall never kill Ape". A GORILLA had
> been the first murderer. From hence, ALL gorillas would have the
> taint of being the "type" of ape who became the "Cain" of their
> sacred history.
>
> I can imagine -- and my POTA scenario has it -- that some, perhaps
> most, of the gorillas eventually got sick and tired of the human-
> loving society of Apes... and became "splitters". They went off to
> live in their own areas, "uncontaminated" by the presence of

humans.

>
> Some of these "splitters" -- not benefitting from the "blessings of
> liberty" enjoyed by the Ape-&-Human co-existing groups -- would

have

> a hard time surviving. Humans and chimps, at least, know how to do
> agricultural work... but the gorillas? No: they prefer to pluck the
> fruit from the trees...
>
> ... but when the food runs out, they have to find SOME way to get
> food. So... they resort to CARNIVORISM. They use "arrowheads of
> quartz" shot from bows to kill animals to eat. For all we know,

when

> they run out of game, they might even wind up resorting to the most
> repugnant form of carnivorism there is: CANNIBALISM. All because

they

> don't want to live with other apes who tolerate the hated humans.
>
> They are in a stage of "primitive barbarism", then, because they
> REVERTED to barbarism, after having come from a society which had
> been speaking English since the late 20th Century. Their own racism
> led them to their barbaric end.
>
> But SOME gorillas did NOT end up reverting to barbarism. Instead,
> they rejoined their simian brothers and sisters... but on different
> terms. After 2670, and before 2755, the gorillas learned how to

make

> their own guns. And that changed EVERYTHING.
>
> They didn't have to break into Caesar's old Armory in order to
> acquire 700-year-old machine guns and rifles made in Pre-Cataclysm
> times by humans. They acquired the ability to make their OWN guns,
> like the ones we see in "PLANET" and "BENEATH". When these gorillas
> had their guns, they then conquered the Ape-and-Human civilization
> that had been living in low-tech harmony, killing off the uppity
> humans (and any ape who dared take up arms against another ape on
> behalf of a human) and enslaving the terrorized docile humans.
>
> Once they imposed their new human-hating/subjugating will on ALL

Apes

> and Humans, the gorillas also went out of their way to REWRITE

their

> historical "scriptures" -- or, to have preexisting scriptures
> rewritten by others... or by one specific other: an orangutan who
> would come to be known as THE Lawgiver. The Lawgiver to end all
> lawgivers. The simian Muhammad; just as Muhammad is claimed by
> Muslims to be God's FINAL and greatest prophet, with his scripture
> (the Quran) supposedly in precedence over the non-Islamic

scriptures

> written by other "People of the Book" (i.e. Jews and Christians),

so

> too is the Lawgiver alive in 2755 the one who will write a NEW
> scripture that will not only clean up the role of Aldo as the first
> murderer, but will also obliterate any textual evidence that Man

ever

> had a civilization to begin with.
>
> Of course, ANY other writings that contradict this new dogma would

be

> declared anathema -- heretical writings to be burnt in massive book-
> burnings. Those who wanted to preserve such writings would have to
> hide them away, as the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Nag Hammadi
> scriptures written by the Coptic Gnostics were hidden away, only to
> be found in 1945-to-1947.
>
> Somebody DID preserve those "Secret Scrolls" though... and that
> somebody was probably Zaius (just as the Vatican's secret archives
> probably contains all the Coptic scriptures that the rest of the
> world found out about only recently). He knew -- from having read
> them -- that the world would be destroyed in "3950"... and when his
> own lifetime actually SAW that year arrive, 5 years before the
> arrival of Taylor, he must have had a major anxiety attack. Perhaps
> he began to question his expectation, when Doomsday did NOT

transpire

> that year... or the next... or the next... or the next... or the
> next...
>
> ... but then the Hunt Club brings him a TALKING HUMAN

named "Landon"!

> And Zaius must have interrogated him -- keeping him out of sight of
> any of the simian masses who've been kept in the dark about the

Truth

> of their planet's Past.
>
> Zaius KNEW that talking humans -- flying in a vehicle that can

travel

> through outer space -- would arrive in his lifetime. The same

source

> for THAT information ALSO told him that the world would be

destroyed

> shortly afterward. How do I know this?
>
> When Ursus has his gorilla soldiers get out "Rope! Block-and-
> tackle!", in order to pull down the gleaming metallic THING that

the

> talking human had called "the instrument of my God", Zaius says of

it:

>
> "IT WILL KILL US ALL!"
>
> How does he know that? Mendez doesn't call it a "bomb". Zaius would
> know the meaning of the word "bomb", I suspect, but Mendez never
> calls it that. He calls it "the INSTRUMENT of my God".
>
> Zaius must somehow know that GORILLAS would destroy the Earth...
> using an artifact from the Human-dominated era 2,000 years ago --
> since he and his ancestors have effectively kept Apes in a horse-

and-

> buggy stage of civilization all the while. No APE could ever devise
> such an "instrument" of mass-destruction... but MAN once did, and
> something built long ago by THEM would be the only thing that MIGHT
> be able to destroy the world.
>
> It was Zira's TAPED voice which revealed that an army of GORILLAS
> went to war prior to the destruction of the Earth. And after Caesar
> told his friends, "No WONDER all mankind thirsted for my blood and
> wanted my birth aborted! Apes in 3950 will destroy the Earth!",
> Virgil "corrected" him by saying, "Not apes, Caesar: GORILLAS."
>
> Zaius goes "into the Forbidden Zone, with Ursus" because he KNOWS

the

> world will be destroyed due to a war propagated by gorillas, as a
> time-traveling Ape-onaut had revealed. THAT is why Zaius knows that
> the THING in the subterranean cathedral is a bomb capable of

killing

> ALL of them. It doesn't have the word "BOMB" written on it -- all

it

> has are the two Greek letters, Alpha and Omega, on one of the fins.
> Zaius knows that THIS is the very thing that WILL destroy the

world...

>
> ... unless he can somehow prevent it from being triggered. That's

why

> he went with Ursus -- to try to prevent an ALL-GORILLA force from
> fulfilling Zira's taped "prophecy". He, an orangutan, just MIGHT be
> able to avert Doomsday...
>
> ... but his hatred of the species who built the Doomsday Bomb

seizes

> control of his mind. Rather than help Taylor... help him to

dismantle

> the Bomb... he hurls an insult at all Mankind: "Man is evil --
> capable of NOTHING BUT DESTRUCTION!"
>
> And thus, Zaius' race-hatred -- like that of the gorilla splitters
> who wound up dying off in the Cave after reverting to carnivorous
> barbarism -- leads to not only HIS end, but the end of EVERYTHING.
>
> Zaius dies knowing that at least TWO apes -- the parents of the ape
> who would come to be known as Caesar, before his history was erased
> by the Lawgiver who wrote the Sacred Scrolls -- would somehow

witness

> the destruction of the world from the windows of Taylor's

spaceship,

> prior to going back through Time... to begin the Circle. Does he

know

> that those two apes are Zira and Cornelius? Probably not: Cornelius
> and Zira also acquired access to those Secret Scrolls, and they
> would've reacted to the revelation that THEY THEMSELVES would

become

> time-travellers, their son to become the one to lead the fight
> against enslavement by humans in the distant past...
>
> The Lawgiver mentions the name "Caesar" -- and refers to

his "parent

> apes" who came to us out of the Future, etc. I suspect that the

text

> read by Zaius and Cornelius and Zira did NOT give the names of the
> Ape-onauts, but only referred to the "parent apes". After they time-
> travelled back to 1973, though, Cornelius and Zira would have to

have

> eventually come to understand that THEY THEMSELVES were the ones
> written of in that pre-Sacred Scrolls scroll. They don't fully
> realize that they've gone back through Time until Milo says, "I

know

> what has happened," and then tells them. For all they knew, before
> that conversation in the cage with Milo, they might be back on the
> planet they just left -- but SOMEWHERE ELSE, perhaps on the other
> side of the world, where humans can still talk and have wondrous
> technology, and all that.
>
> But Milo reminds them about the "date meter" -- how it clicked
> backward after the shockwave hit their ship. NOW they remember...

and

> afterwards, perhaps, Cornelius and Zira come to realize that THEY
> will be fulfilling the ancient story from that heretical

scripture...

>
> They complete the circle.
>
> Patrick

.html

I found him, er her, it . . . whatever.

Billy Tipton.  Maybe there was another

one, but close enough.  Sounds like

Bobby Darin . . . Bully Tipton, yeah?

<.html

OK - but let's get some feedback on the TV Show comic first
please! ;)

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...>

wrote:

> > Well, you just won another one.
> >
> > Oh, the irony!
> >
> > Hey Patrick - did you ever get your copy?
> >
> > Michael
>
> *** Nope. If you have another one lyin' around, send it to my

current

> address at:
>
> PATRICK TILTON
> 4910 15th Avenue SW #104
> Fargo, ND 58103
>
> And, to quote Cornelius, "Don't dawdle!"
>
> ;(|)
>
> Patrick

.html

I know what you mean about Dunke Shoen.

I used to think that was a chick too.  Who

knew Wayne Newton started that young?

 

<.html

God I hope this inspires a spoof charicature from Foster - I get the
most hilarious mental picture!

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> >
> If a REAL gorilla were to try to ride on a horse's back, I doubt

the

> horse would be able to gallop, or even trot. The POTA gorillas can
> ride horses because they have SMALLER body mass than their pre-
> transgenic ancestors.
>
> Patrick

Attachments :

.html

Here's a pic . . .

 

<.html

.html I agree with the point you make about older movies concentrating more on the story because special effects were limited in the past. It would be great to have good stories in movies again. Elaine<.html

first Conquest viewing...at the Big A drive in during
the GO Ape festival....my cousin took me....I don't
think they showed Battle tho for some reason....

Tim


--- Neil <nfoster@...> wrote:

>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, ron kenner
> <brindlepit2002@y...>
> wrote:
> > i first saw it on video, right when it was first
> released. (83?)
>
> -- Conquest was actually the last Apes film I got to
> see. I finally
> got to see it when we were on holiday in the US in
> about '78. We
> were staying at my cousins' place at Vero beach. I
> got to sleep on a
> pull out bed in the den which was lucky as they had
> a TV in there
> and I saw it one night when it was showing as the
> late movie.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>

I always thought it was funny in Planet when the
gorillas are chasing Taylor through ape city and he
runs up stairs and leaps across a chasm and the
gorilla doesn't make it!!....HE"S A GORILLA! he
could've taken down Taylor with one swipe of his
paw...er..hand!

Tim

--- mlccougar@... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/16/2004 11:24:25 AM Central
> Standard Time,
> goathunter@... writes:
>
> > Gorillas must have gotten a lot weaker over the
> years,
> > because there's no way Virdon and Burke could beat
> up so many gorillas
> > so easily. 8-)
>
> That's the one thing I don't like in the series, and
> I am glad when it came
> time, Mark Lenard "put his foot down" and said "no"
> to having Urko beat up by
> Burke... Lenard thought it was b.s. that they'd have
> the Humans able to beat up
> an Ape...
>
> It irks me that in that series, the Fugitives have a
> hard time holding their
> own against an average sized Human, but they can
> single-handedly take on an
> armed Gorilla...
>

.html <.html

you should email the seller and call him on it!

Tim

--- mlccougar@... wrote:

> Look at this picture... There is a SCI-FI Channel
> logo on it!!! Evans was
> deceased before that network ever existed, yet he
> signed a photo with it's logo
> on it? Someone on eBay had better get their sh*t
> straight...
>
>
>
> eBay item 3860025630 (Ends Dec-19-04 14:51:00 PST) -
> MAURICE EVANS SIGNED
> BENEATH THE PLANET OF APES
>

__________________________________

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /The Book
Uploaded by : taebokitti <taebokitti@...>
Description : A poem inspired by Within the Planet of the Apes

You can access this file at the URL:
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taebokitti <taebokitti@...>

.html.html I never heard of Billy Tipon.  What were its hits!

My mother married Caesar Romero's cousin, so I know this for a fact.  Guess what?

The joker was a queen!

-- Rory<.html<.html

Hey all - who was it who pieced together Urko's wall map?

Was it you, John O?

Do we have the pic here on the group? It would be great to feature this
in Urko's office for the new comic!

Michael

.html.html I just got an email from Amok Time saying they've shipped me the other Dr. Zaius figure from Sideshow.  We'll see.

-- Rory<.html<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/17/04 3:19:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

I'd get Bill Blake and Paula Crist to play Cornelius and Zira, like they did way
back when...

Patrick

They don't have anything to do with each other anymore -- and they're both old farts, right Jeff?

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html

That's not exactly news about Caesar Romero.

But that's all I know about Billy Tipton.

It was just that, a news story.

 

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/17/2004 12:08:22 AM Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

Possibly the astronauts could also be knowledgeable in some of the martial arts in which other factors besides strength come into play here.

I'll give you that point... Burke does use martial arts style moves in some of his fighting (both against Gorillas, and against Tolar...)

The gorillas may have become more like us, eating junk food, high cholesterol

What "junk food"? All you can possibly mean would be rotten fruits and vegetables? There's no way they have "junk foods"... You seriously think that Gorillas (or any of the Apes for that matter) are going to deep fry food in fats? And just what would they be deep frying? Bamboo shots? Leaves? Corn?<.html <.html

I did the map. The map in the comic would be cool!
It's in Photos/Misc/TVMap (second page).
Let me know if you or Neil need a larger image.

John O.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Hey all - who was it who pieced together Urko's wall map?
>
> Was it you, John O?
>
> Do we have the pic here on the group? It would be great to
feature this
> in Urko's office for the new comic!
>
> Michael

.html.html In a message dated 12/17/2004 11:42:11 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

***The gorillas in POTA are NOT like "primitive" gorillas. Ursus didn't
knuckle-walk -- nor COULD he have done so. His torso and limbs are
the result of a morphological change made to his distant ancestors,
some 2000 years earlier, which caused his body to take on a
morphology more akin to that of a human -- including bipedalism.

***The POTA gorillas can ride horses because they have SMALLER body mass than their pre-transgenic ancestors.


And you know why all this is don't you? Because HUMAN actors are under all that appliance... They were trying to give simian appearance though, and do ape-like motions... That's all there is to it, no morphing, no genetic altering, no space aliens tampering with their genetic code/make-up... It was all because they're human beings portraying Apes...<.html<.html

I think they had to have evolution in mind. Otherwise why would
they put a completely different looking gorilla in the cage next to
the apeonauts in Escape? Why didn't they just use another Planet of
the Apes ape?

John O.


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:>

> And you know why all this is don't you? Because HUMAN actors are

under all

> that appliance... They were trying to give simian appearance

though, and do

> ape-like motions... That's all there is to it, no morphing, no

genetic altering,

> no space aliens tampering with their genetic code/make-up... It

was all because

> they're human beings portraying Apes...

.html.html In a message dated 12/17/2004 7:19:21 PM Central Standard Time, jspy@... writes:

Otherwise why would they put a completely different looking gorilla in the cage next to the apeonauts in Escape? 

Because they used an "actor" that insisted on using his own Gorilla suit... (Ugly as that thing is...)

Why didn't they just use another Planet of the Apes ape?

Read above... Also, I'd guess they didn't want to spend any more money than they had to, so they didn't make up an actor in apes appliances (and full body suit) to be the Gorilla...





<.html<.html

.html.html To Whitty, and whoever else is/was involved... With the talk of the new TV series based comic being previewed on the POTA-DG, a question comes to mind: What ever happened to the Spanish language APES comics project? There was one that was translated, and posted on Kass' sight, but that was the last I heard of it... Are any more translated? Will they be posted somewhere?<.html <.html

Lovely Elaine!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com[SMTP:POTADG@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 10:58:30 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] New file uploaded to PotaDG
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /The Book
Uploaded by : taebokitti <taebokitti@...>
Description : A poem inspired by Within the Planet of the Apes

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> I never heard of Billy Tipon. What were its hits!
>
> My mother married Caesar Romero's cousin, so I know this for a

fact. Guess what?

>
> The joker was a queen!
>
> -- Rory

*** I've been reading "MR. S." by George Jacobs -- he's the African-
American hired-help Frank Sinatra got to be his butler/manservant
('stealing' him from Irving 'Swifty' Lazar), who saw it all goin'
down in the Rat Pack era. His book (so far) is a hoot. He mentions
Cesar Romero being a homosexual -- thus being one of the few guys who
could take Ava Gardner out on a "date" and not incur Sinatra's wrath
(as Peter Lawford found out), cuz Sinatra knew Romero wasn't gonna
make any moves on Ava.

Who would design the mothership for the new movie, Patrick?

Michael

>
> ----------
> From:

patrickmichaeltilton[SMTP:PATRICKMICHAELTILTON@...]

> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 7:16:43 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Frostbite Falls
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/17/2004 10:51:39 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> Fargo, ND 58103
>
>
>
>
> How's the weather up there in Frostbite Falls Minnesota?

*** When I was a kid, I remember there being blizzards in late
October, in November, etc etc. So far, this year, we've only had one
real snowfall, and that's IT. There's ice on the roads, but not
drifts of snow making road travel impossible. Maybe there's something
to the Global Warming theory after all...

Don't get me wrong: it's cold up here -- below 32 Fahrenheit. But
it's survivable. Of course, if I ever win the Powerball lotto, I'm
high-tailin' it SOUTH and WEST. California, baybee! I'll pay Jeffie
to give me a tour of all the POTA sites -- the Fox Ranch, Century
City, the beach where Cornelius' cave was filmed, etc. Then I'll
shell out a few million of the hundreds of millions I'd win to get
the rights to make a POTA movie... and then WATCH OUT! I'd get Bill
Blake and Paula Crist to play Cornelius and Zira, like they did way
back when...

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/17/2004 11:42:11 AM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> ***The gorillas in POTA are NOT like "primitive" gorillas. Ursus

didn't knuckle-walk -- nor COULD he have done so. His torso and limbs
are the result of a morphological change made to his distant
ancestors, some 2000 years earlier, which caused his body to take on
a morphology more akin to that of a human -- including bipedalism.

>
> ***The POTA gorillas can ride horses because they have SMALLER body

mass than their pre-transgenic ancestors.

>

--------------------------------------------------------------

> And you know why all this is don't you? Because HUMAN actors are

under all that appliance... They were trying to give simian
appearance though, and do ape-like motions... That's all there is to
it, no morphing, no genetic altering, no space aliens tampering with
their genetic code/make-up... It was all because they're human beings
portraying Apes...
==================================================================
*** In Boulle's novel, the apes drive around in cars. I can imagine a
car's suspension being able to take the weight of an actual gorilla.

But a horse?

Sure, your average chimp could probably ride a horse and the horse
would take the chimp's weight as easily as it would take a human's
weight (provided that human ain't morbidly obese, of course). Same
goes for an orangutan.

But gorillas, my friend, are BIG and HEAVY. There ain't no way a
horse could gallop with a true unevolved 'primitive' gorilla on its
back. That's just a fact.

MacDonald, in "CONQUEST", makes reference to Caesar's parents as "the
evolved apes". Their "evolution" -- i.e. their altered nature, as
compared to an "unevolved" ape -- is NOT merely in their larynx.
Compare a picture of an ordinary chimp or gorilla or orangutan to
pics of Cornelius, Julius, and Zaius, and what do you see?

Look above their brow ridges. What do you see?

FOREHEADS!

The average real ape has a back-sloping head. But the apes in POTA
have skulls shaped differently than their primitive forebears. They
have more cranial capacity. In order to be as intelligent as a human,
they would HAVE to have bigger brains -- and, thus, bigger skulls in
which those brains reside. The average chimpanzee has a much smaller
brain than the average human, this despite sharing over 98% of their
genomes. Human intelligence is due to us having BIG brains and hence
bigger brain-to-body mass ratios. An elephant has a bigger brain than
a human, but its body is so huge that the brain-to-body mass ratio is
smaller for an elephant than it is for a man. Dolphins are just about
the ONLY species that has a higher brain-to-body mass ratio, but it
doesn't give as much of an advantage to them, since they are aquatic
mammals with no articulating limbs to alter their own environments.
I'm talking about TOOL-USING and technology -- from the invention of
fire (by rubbing two sticks together) to making arrowheads by
chipping flakes off a stone by banging another stone on it, etc. A
dolphin can NEVER do any of even the simplest of things that a human
can with his hands and fingers.

You say that the human actors tried to do "ape-like motions", but I
didn't see any gorilla-actors knuckle-walking. Did you? When they
made "GREYSTOKE: THE LEGEND OF TARZAN" (remember that one, with
newcomer Christopher Lambert as Tarzan?), Rick Baker did the ape-
appliances and suits. The apes in THAT movie moved the way real apes
moved, knuckle-walking and all. Rick Baker's gorillas in "GORILLAS IN
THE MIST" also perambulated the way gorillas really do.

But in POTA, the gorillas do NOT knuckle-walk. Real gorillas knuckle-
walk because they have so much body mass (and the weight that goes
along with it) that they need to support their upper torso on their
HUGE arms when moving from point A to point B. It's difficult for a
gorilla, especially, to 'walk' without using its arms, relying only
on its legs. But in POTA, the "evolved" gorillas walk like HUMANS.

They HAVE to have smaller body mass than real gorillas, otherwise
they could NEVER ride horses, because the horses would collapse under
the weight. In order to give a real-sized gorilla human-like
intelligence, it would have to have a corresponding brain-to-body
mass ratio similar to that of a human. That would entail having the
creature grow a HUUUUUGE head. The POTA apes all got slightly bigger
heads -- especially FOREheads -- and SMALLER bodies, so that the
brain could be of a size proportionate to the body as a human's brain
is to his own body.

And, one could argue that the pace of evolution is such that it is
flatly impossible for intelligent TALKING apes to develop in less
than 800 years. "PLANET" takes place 2,000 years in the Future, 1,200
years after the Lawgiver wrote his Sacred Scrolls -- thus, 800 years
after Taylor's time, when the Nukes wiped out human civilization. And
the one who wrote those scrolls was portrayed in a famous sculpture,
in which he stands BOLT UPRIGHT. Real orangutans can't "pose" in a
human-like stand for extended periods of time. They would naturally
tend to use their larger forearms the way gorillas do: as a third leg
in a tripod, of sorts.

SOMETHING happened to the chimps, orangutans, and gorillas, and it
wasn't the arrival of the Ape-onauts that changed 'em. Mandemus is
portrayed as being OLDER than Caesar -- so how DID he acquire
his "evolved" traits BEFORE human scientists ever acquired the
ability to investigate the genome?

Patrick

.html.html In a message dated 12/17/2004 8:58:16 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

You say that the human actors tried to do "ape-like motions", but I
didn't see any gorilla-actors knuckle-walking. Did you?

No, BUT they walked hunched over... And "waddled" as an Ape would do when walking up-right...

<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/17/2004 8:58:16 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

MacDonald, in "CONQUEST", makes reference to Caesar's parents as "the
evolved apes". Their "evolution" -- i.e. their altered nature, as
compared to an "unevolved" ape -- is NOT merely in their larynx.
Compare a picture of an ordinary chimp or gorilla or orangutan to
pics of Cornelius, Julius, and Zaius, and what do you see?

Look above their brow ridges. What do you see?

FOREHEADS!

Look... In ESCAPE, they see them as we'd see present day chimps... They'd have to see them that way in order for them to "think" they're chimps... I mean if they were to see them as evolved creatures, then they'd know that what they're dealing with isn't a "zoo chimp"... And there'd be nowhere for them to hide... EVERYONE would know they aren't apes as we know them... I mean if something that looked like the APE-O-NAUTS landed in Taylor's ship, they'd know right then and there they aren't what we know to be chimps... They wouldn't put it in a zoo cage, they'd put it under lock and key in a government base (think Roswell incident.) There would be no doubt that they aren't chimps as we know... Evolved yes, but that's in intelligence... They are supposed to be "real" apes...

Same goes for Caesar in CONQUEST... If he was as "evolved" as you say he's supposed to be, he'd stick out so bad it wouldn't even be funny... They'd have no trouble finding the talking chimp... Just look for the one that sticks out in the crowd...

As far as the "foreheads" you mentioned, think ... It's because it's creative make-up designed by John Chambers... He gave them the "look" they have because he wanted the apes to look aesthetically appealing... He could have made them look like "real" apes as you say, but he chose to give them the look because he didn't want the audience to be "grossed out" by looking at apes for 2 hrs.

<.html<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/17/2004 8:58:16 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

When they
made "GREYSTOKE: THE LEGEND OF TARZAN" (remember that one, with
newcomer Christopher Lambert as Tarzan?), Rick Baker did the ape-
appliances and suits. The apes in THAT movie moved the way real apes
moved, knuckle-walking and all. Rick Baker's gorillas in "GORILLAS IN
THE MIST" also perambulated the way gorillas really do.

That's an entirely different movie... That has nothing to do with POTA... It's comparing apples and oranges...

<.html <.html

Elaine,

I like your poems. They have a free verse, coffee house style
thoughtfulness to them. Thank you for sharing this. What a tribute
to Neil and Michael's work.

Helen

> File : /The Book
> Uploaded by : taebokitti <taebokitti@a...>
> Description : A poem inspired by Within the Planet of the Apes
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/The%20Book
>
> Regards,
>
> taebokitti <taebokitti@a...>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "John" <DrZaiusDavis@a...> wrote:

>I'm trying to use your stories to hook them and help them

understand why I'm such an Apes fan. Thanks again!

-- Good one John. Now everyone else get out there and convert people
into Apes fans!

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

>That's all there is to it, no morphing, no genetic altering, no

space aliens tampering with their genetic code/make-up... It was all
because they're human beings portraying Apes...

-- But isn't something that has been overlooked, that is more
important than their appearance, is that the apes talk! I'm sure
that I read somewhere that even if they had the same intelligence as
us they couldn't speak like we do as their vocal chords are not the
same and can't make the same sounds?

Neil

.html.html In a message dated 12/17/2004 11:33:56 PM Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

I'm sure that I read somewhere that even if they had the same intelligence as
us they couldn't speak like we do as their vocal chords are not the
same and can't make the same sounds?

...And I'm sure that Patrick will have an essay on that one too...

<.html <.html

Attachments :

.html.htmlIn a message dated 12/18/04 12:08:48 AM Eastern Standard Time, ursus3978@... writes:

Here's a link to a site with a more extensive review (with pictures):

http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_121704a.htm

I'm curious to hear what other POTA fans will have to say after they
get him.

-Ray
www.rayalma.com

<.html<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>
wrote:

>I like your poems. They have a free verse, coffee house style

thoughtfulness to them. Thank you for sharing this. What a tribute
to Neil and Michael's work.

-- Yeah nice one Elaine, I can just picture a dark, smoke filled
room with a small stage to one side upon which sits a young radical
chimp reading from his book of poems to a hip young crowd of shade
wearing apes...

Neil

.html

In a message dated 12/17/2004 7:27:34 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

I'd guess they didn't want to spend any more money than they had to, so they didn't make up an actor in apes appliances (and full body suit) to be the Gorilla...

 

I'm trying to picture the scene shot with a guy done up like Ursus in the steam bath scene strangling Milo.  It wouldn't have been any worse, and probably better.

 

 

<.html

Attachments :

.html

In a message dated 12/17/2004 11:38:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Yeah nice one Elaine, I can just picture a dark, smoke filled
room with a small stage to one side upon which sits a young radical
chimp reading from his book of poems to a hip young crowd of shade
wearing apes...

 

Would it look something like  . . .THIS!

 

<.html

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Hoknes

To: pota@yahoogroups.com ; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ; friends_and_fugitives@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 11:20 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] escape from the planet of the apes - the movie

So tonight I watched this great film for the first time in about 5 yrs

It is one of my favorites and tonite reminded me of how much i liked it

the pacing is so good

it has such happy moments and then really brings it down to depression near the end

 

anybody notice that Milo really acts and talks like Roddy does later as Galen in the TV series?

I thought it could have been Roddy speaking

 

is Hasslein mentioned in "conquest"

I wondered how much would the POTA timeline change if Hasslein himself is not killed in this movie and would go on further in the storyline         would he be a hero or a criminal?

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: kidro85@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 13, 2004 7:01 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Whats the chance we will see another POTA Film??

She was likely pulling our legs

 

 

 

In a message dated 12/13/2004 1:01:11 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, neptunewanter@... writes:

I remember like a yeah and a half to 2 years ago there was some lady on the POTA message boards saying she worked for Fox or something like that.  She got everyone's opinion on what happened at the end of the remake and I think just tried to find the most plausible explanation.  She said she was the screenwriter if I remember correctly.   Well, I haven't seen her on these boards since, so I don't know what the deal is with her.  Maybe she's still writing the script or maybe she was just pulling all of our legs.

 

<.html

Michael Crawford's site reviews and compares the regular Zaius with
the exclusive version:

http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_121704a.htm

Also, something posted on another board about the possibility of a new
line of Apes: (copied & pasted)
-----------------------------------------------
Some comments by Jerry of SOTA toys in response to the question of
whether Planet of the Apes might be in the Now Playing line....

Jerry: "- I hear Planet Of The Apes might be on someone elses plate."

"If you can't say who. Can you say if you think they'll do a decent
job with it ala Now Playing or NECA??"

Jerry: "if its the company I think then yeah, theyd do a good job."
-------------------------------------------
...Neca, or maybe McFarlane? Whoever makes them, so long as they're
affordable and well sculpted, I'll be happy!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , <veetus@e...> wrote:

> Hooray! My favorite toy review site has posted their review of

Sideshow's first release in the POTA line: the good Dr. Zauises. Or at
least they would be good if they didn't cost so much. Check it out:

> http://www.mwctoys.com/REVIEW_121704a.htm - - - Jeff

Oops, my bad Jeff- I just made a post about this too, I didn't see
yours at first :(

> Same goes for Caesar in CONQUEST... If he was as "evolved" as you

say he's

> supposed to be, he'd stick out so bad it wouldn't even be funny...

They'd have

> no trouble finding the talking chimp... Just look for the one that

sticks out

> in the crowd...

This makes sense. Though I would seperate the evolved apes from the
primitive ones physically (ala scientist Milo and the Gorilla), the
films did just gloss over all that an accept all apes in the same bag.
(Apart from the obvious differences of chimp, gorilla, and orangutan
of course)

I would think that Cornelius and Zira's baby Milo would look more
stylized as they do, but it turns out he was passable for a primitive
chimp kid. But, that's probably just hollywood taking the easy route
and using an animal instead of some costly puppet that looked more
like the parents.

> -- I could try but I don't like the chances of them still being
> there. I got mine quite a few weeks ago now and the shop that was
> selling them just deals in end of the line stuff so they don't get
> much of the same stock and when it's gone they can't get any more.
>
> Neil

No problem, Neil! They're a cool oddity, but no worries if you can't
find any more.

-Mike

Neil,
What's the company that produces those, btw?

It's kinda funny that the packaging says "Beware the Beast Man!", when
that was a line from the scroll that Cornelius reads from the end of
Planet.

-Mike

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <doctahoot@y...> wrote:
>
> > -- I could try but I don't like the chances of them still being
> > there. I got mine quite a few weeks ago now and the shop that was
> > selling them just deals in end of the line stuff so they don't get
> > much of the same stock and when it's gone they can't get any more.

.html

In a message dated 12/18/2004 2:06:13 A.M. Central Standard Time, doctahoot@... writes:

I would think that Cornelius and Zira's baby Milo would look more
stylized as they do, but it turns out he was passable for a primitive
chimp kid.  But, that's probably just hollywood taking the easy route
and using an animal instead of some costly puppet that looked more
like the parents.

 

Hey they stuck a nose on him!

Whatdayawant?  I'll bet it was

hard to get an ape to sit still

for that -- especially a baby.

 

<.html

I have heard they hired a specific actor to play the Gorilla in Escape.

Apparently he refused to wear anything BUT the (stupid) suit and they
let him get away with it.

George Lucas, if you are reading this please intervene!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: John O.[SMTP:JSPY@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 12:13:03 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Simian morphology
> Auto forwarded by a Rule

I think they had to have evolution in mind. Otherwise why would
they put a completely different looking gorilla in the cage next to
the apeonauts in Escape? Why didn't they just use another Planet of
the Apes ape?

John O.

From my point of view, the talking is a bigger marker than looks.
Especially since talking is a major topic in the movies, where looks
is more of a production issue.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> >That's all there is to it, no morphing, no genetic altering, no
> space aliens tampering with their genetic code/make-up... It was
all
> because they're human beings portraying Apes...
>
> -- But isn't something that has been overlooked, that is more
> important than their appearance, is that the apes talk! I'm sure
> that I read somewhere that even if they had the same intelligence
as
> us they couldn't speak like we do as their vocal chords are not
the
> same and can't make the same sounds?
>
> Neil

Imagine it...hell, you could DRAW it! ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Neil[SMTP:NFOSTER@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 4:36:24 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>
wrote:

>I like your poems. They have a free verse, coffee house style

thoughtfulness to them. Thank you for sharing this. What a tribute
to Neil and Michael's work.

-- Yeah nice one Elaine, I can just picture a dark, smoke filled
room with a small stage to one side upon which sits a young radical
chimp reading from his book of poems to a hip young crowd of shade
wearing apes...

Neil

I think that line proves a direct rip off!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Mike[SMTP:DOCTAHOOT@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 7:25:31 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Apes Attacks Figures, PS...
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Neil,
What's the company that produces those, btw?

It's kinda funny that the packaging says "Beware the Beast Man!", when
that was a line from the scroll that Cornelius reads from the end of
Planet.

-Mike

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <doctahoot@y...> wrote:
>
> > -- I could try but I don't like the chances of them still being
> > there. I got mine quite a few weeks ago now and the shop that was
> > selling them just deals in end of the line stuff so they don't get
> > much of the same stock and when it's gone they can't get any more.

Hmmm...this IS a hard one to explain.

I always thought the APES in Planet got like that due to nuclear
mutation. I still think that's the suggestion - nukes sped up the
evolution of the apes.

However you are right, Caesar should have stuck out like dogs' b#lls!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Mike[SMTP:DOCTAHOOT@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 18, 2004 7:05:32 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Simian morphology
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

> Same goes for Caesar in CONQUEST... If he was as "evolved" as you

say he's

> supposed to be, he'd stick out so bad it wouldn't even be funny...

They'd have

> no trouble finding the talking chimp... Just look for the one that

sticks out

> in the crowd...

This makes sense. Though I would seperate the evolved apes from the
primitive ones physically (ala scientist Milo and the Gorilla), the
films did just gloss over all that an accept all apes in the same bag.
(Apart from the obvious differences of chimp, gorilla, and orangutan
of course)

I would think that Cornelius and Zira's baby Milo would look more
stylized as they do, but it turns out he was passable for a primitive
chimp kid. But, that's probably just hollywood taking the easy route
and using an animal instead of some costly puppet that looked more
like the parents.

Attachments :

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "John O." <jspy@w...> wrote:

> I think they had to have evolution in mind. Otherwise why would

they put a completely different looking gorilla in the cage next to
the apeonauts in Escape? Why didn't they just use another Planet of
the Apes ape?

-- And don't forget the stuffed gorilla in the museum when Zira
faints.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Mike" <doctahoot@y...> wrote:

> Neil, What's the company that produces those, btw? It's kinda

funny that the packaging says "Beware the Beast Man!", when that was
a line from the scroll that Cornelius reads from the end of Planet.

-- There's no mention of who made these things, no indication at
all.
Also I had a look in the shop I got them from the other day and
there were non left. (probably cleared them out to make room for all
the Christmas stuff that the place is overflowing with now!)

Neil

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Members' Art gallery/planet of the aches.jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description : Simian morphology (spoof caricature from Foster )

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Members%27%20Art%20gallery/planet%20of%20the%20aches.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil T Foster" <nfoster@h...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty"

<Michael.Whitty@d...>

> wrote:
> > God I hope this inspires a spoof caricature from Foster - I get

the most hilarious mental picture!

>
> --What, something like this?

-- Sorry, forgot that attachments aren't stored any more. Have just
uploaded it to the files section.

Neil

That's beautiful, Neil!! :)))

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Members%27%20Art%
20gallery/planet%20o\
f%20the%20aches.jpg

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil T Foster" <nfoster@h...>
wrote:
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty"
> <Michael.Whitty@d...>
> > wrote:
> > > God I hope this inspires a spoof caricature from Foster - I
get
> the most hilarious mental picture!
> >
> > --What, something like this?
>
> -- Sorry, forgot that attachments aren't stored any more. Have
just
> uploaded it to the files section.
>
> Neil

Somewhere I've seen a pic of a makeup person making up
baby Milo...I didn't think they added anythin...just
adjusted his coloring to fit with the adult makeup..
Tim

--- LordTZer0@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/18/2004 2:06:13 A.M. Central
> Standard Time,
> doctahoot@... writes:
>
> I would think that Cornelius and Zira's baby Milo
> would look more
> stylized as they do, but it turns out he was
> passable for a primitive
> chimp kid. But, that's probably just hollywood
> taking the easy route
> and using an animal instead of some costly puppet
> that looked more
> like the parents.
>
>
>
> Hey they stuck a nose on him!
> Whatdayawant? I'll bet it was
> hard to get an ape to sit still
> for that -- especially a baby.
>
>

__________________________________

.html.html In a message dated 12/18/04 11:22:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, apefan23@... writes:

Somewhere I've seen a pic of a makeup person making up
baby Milo...I didn't think they added anythin...just
adjusted his coloring to fit with the adult makeup..
Tim

No, they had to get his nose to look like his parents in the last shot.  The baby chimp is wearing an appliance over his nose.  How they kept the chimp from tearing it off I'll never know.  I hope they weren't mean to it.  You can see film of them putting it on in the ESCAPE featurette that's in BEHIND THE PLANET OF THE APES and on the two DVDs (POTA 35th Anniversary).

The baby chimp was a girl, by the way.

-- Rory<.html <.html

WHen will the expanded version be avliable? I can't wait!!!!! WHOOO
HOOO
The new TV series comic looks like it is going to be awesome as
well!!!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Chris Lawless <lawford42@j...>
wrote:
> > So it bears repeating: kudos to everyone involved in bringing
this
> story to life. You've dome something to be proud of.
>
> -- Thanks Chris, we had a lot of fun doing it and I for one am
very
> proud of it.
>
> Neil

.html.html From imdb.com:

Liv Tyler Names Son Milo

Lord Of The Rings beauty Liv Tyler has announced the name of her newborn baby boy - Milo William Langdon. Tyler and her husband, Royston Langdon , welcomed Milo in the early hours of Tuesday morning at a New York hospital. The baby weighed in at 8 pounds. Tyler said she'd loved the name ever since she saw the movie "Escape from the Planet of the Apes" when she was a child.  In the 1971 film, one of the sequels to the science fiction classic from 1968, a baby chimp is named Milo by his smart simian parents. This is the first child for Tyler, 27, and her English rocker husband, 32. Tyler and Langdon married on 25 March 2003, in Barbados after a two-year engagement.




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.html The apes probably have their own special brands of junk food that are not nutritionally healthy. Remember they are becoming more like us and even if they do not have junk food, they smoke and drink. Elaine<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/18/2004 2:06:12 AM Central Standard Time, doctahoot@... writes:

The films did just gloss over all that an accept all apes in the same bag.
(Apart from the obvious differences of chimp, gorilla, and orangutan
of course)

And CONQUEST did it big time... Look at the Orangutans that Caesar infiltrates... When they are at the dock, in the cage, they look "primitive"... But when they are being hauled into Ape Management, they suddenly have the look of Planet of the Apes designed apes... "Presto-Chango"... Morphing that quickly: No way? Poor costuming/budgetary restraints/film making: Yes

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.html Thanks,Michael. Elaine<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/18/2004 2:06:12 AM Central Standard Time, doctahoot@... writes:

I would think that Cornelius and Zira's baby Milo would look more
stylized as they do, but it turns out he was passable for a primitive
chimp kid.

That's true too... But, you have to give them a little credit on this one... They did try to "make-up" the baby to look a bit more (as you put it) "stylized"... On one of the featurettes, it does show the baby having make-up applied to make it resemble it's parents more...

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.html Thanks Helen. Eventually I'll have a book of pota poetry so keep the comics going Neil and Michael. Elaine<.html

.html I seriously doubt this crowd would be interested in poetry. Elaine<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/18/2004 12:11:25 PM Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

...and running into an ape poetry reading at a coffee house.

Is that your idea of an "unhealthy" Apes life-style? Drinking that coffee?

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.html.html In a message dated 12/18/2004 12:25:09 PM Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

Drinking coffee is not an unhealthy lifestyle for the apes unless they drink gallons of it at a time.

Yeah, but it has caffeine, which s supposed to be "bad" for you... And as far as this goes, then you can say moderate alcohol comsumption isn't unhealthy either... Unless they're "drinking gallons of it at a time"...

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.html Do you think the apes would like gourmet coffee? Do you think eventually there would be Starbucks or the ape versian of Starbucks in their cities and towns? Elaine<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/18/2004 12:44:57 PM Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

Do you think the apes would like gourmet coffee? Do you think eventually there would be Starbucks or the ape version of Starbucks in their cities and towns?

Nope... They're probably happier drinking their chamomile tea than coffee...

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In a message dated 12/18/2004 12:11:24 P.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

Neil, maybe you could insert that vision into one of the future comics. I can see Galen, Burke and Virdon being chased by gorillas and running into an ape poetry reading at a coffee house. Elain

 

Did it look something like . . THIS!

 

 

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In a message dated 12/18/2004 12:01:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

And CONQUEST did it big time... Look at the Orangutans that Caesar infiltrates... When they are at the dock, in the cage, they look "primitive"... But when they are being hauled into Ape Management, they suddenly have the look of Planet of the Apes designed apes... "Presto-Chango"... Morphing that quickly: No way?

 

It's the magic jumpsuits!

Their very slimming.

 

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Oh - THANKS FOR REMINDIND ME!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Neil[SMTP:NFOSTER@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 12:43:41 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Simian morphology
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John O." <jspy@w...> wrote:
> I think they had to have evolution in mind. Otherwise why would
they put a completely different looking gorilla in the cage next to
the apeonauts in Escape? Why didn't they just use another Planet of
the Apes ape?

-- And don't forget the stuffed gorilla in the museum when Zira
faints.

Neil

Precisely! LOL!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Neil T Foster[SMTP:NFOSTER@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 12:35:15 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Simian morphology
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com> , "Michael
Whitty" < Michael.Whitty@d <mailto:Michael.Whitty@d> ...> wrote:

> God I hope this inspires a spoof caricature from Foster - I get the

most
hilarious mental picture!

--What, something like this?



Neil

They added a nose piece.

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Tim "apefan"[SMTP:APEFAN23@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 3:20:31 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Simian morphology
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Somewhere I've seen a pic of a makeup person making up
baby Milo...I didn't think they added anythin...just
adjusted his coloring to fit with the adult makeup..
Tim

I think the thing is that they get real skinny as soon as one sees
clothes on them!

Naked (in the sauna, in a cage) they get HUGE! ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: mlccougar@...[SMTP:MLCCOUGAR@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 5:00:04 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Simian morphology
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 12/18/2004 2:06:12 AM Central Standard Time,
doctahoot@... writes:



The films did just gloss over all that an accept all apes in the same
bag.
(Apart from the obvious differences of chimp, gorilla, and orangutan
of course)



And CONQUEST did it big time... Look at the Orangutans that Caesar
infiltrates... When they are at the dock, in the cage, they look
"primitive"... But when they are being hauled into Ape Management, they
suddenly have the look of Planet of the Apes designed apes...
"Presto-Chango"... Morphing that quickly: No way? Poor
costuming/budgetary
restraints/film making: Yes

If they are seriously "aping" us then YES!

>
> ----------
> From: taebokitti@...[SMTP:TAEBOKITTI@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 19, 2004 5:43:13 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Do you think the apes would like gourmet coffee? Do you think eventually
there would be Starbucks or the ape versian of Starbucks in their cities
and
towns? Elaine