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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Mike" <doctahoot@y...> wrote:

> Maybe the demand wasn't there..but then the Simpsons line has even

obscure characters included, you'd think they'd further appease the
completists.

-- That's what I was thinking too. They do seem to do any character
who has been in the Simpsons but do they only do actual Simpsons
characters? Have they ever done any Simpsons figures that are not
original creations but are Simpsons versions of 'outside'
characters, like Dr. Zaius and the rest?

Neil

.html.htmlFoster,

Your art work on this is great... Where were you when ADVENTURE was churning out their bullsh*t? You could have shown those guys a few things...

And Whitty, your story is moving along nicely... So far, your script is doing good... Way better than anything ADVENTURE or the "original story" authors of MARVEL'S stuff came up with...<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> Foster, Your art work on this is great...

-- Thank you very much sir!

> Where were you when ADVENTURE was churning out their bullsh*t? You

could have shown those guys a few things...

-- Wow, back then I think I was still down in Adelaide doing bar
work and having one of my not taking artwork seriously phases.

> And Whitty, your story is moving along nicely... So far, your

script is doing good... Way better than anything ADVENTURE or
the "original story" authors of MARVEL'S stuff came up with...

-- Yes the lad has done well so far hasn't he, not bad for a first
attempt at comic writing.

Neil

I don't know the full list, but I don't think there are any outside
characters- besides celebs that appeared on the show. I noticed that
they can do a Stephen Hawking figure, but no popular musicians, no
Mark Hamill, no Leonard Nimoy. And I wonder if big Star Wars/Trek fans
have been requesting those just like we've been wanting Apes.

It's a shame too since the Ape musical bit is popular. It'd be great
seeing that as a boxed set from Playmates!

Mike

> -- That's what I was thinking too. They do seem to do any character
> who has been in the Simpsons but do they only do actual Simpsons
> characters? Have they ever done any Simpsons figures that are not
> original creations but are Simpsons versions of 'outside'
> characters, like Dr. Zaius and the rest?
>
> Neil

.html.html In a message dated 12/20/2004 12:03:47 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

The bones of any critters the gorillas may have eaten would have bite
marks on 'em, and -- using the gorilla skulls he found -- Cornelius
could've compared the gnaw-scratches on the bones with the jaws and
teeth of the gorillas, to see if THOSE teeth made THOSE marks.

This statement makes no sense, only because in your post, you stated that you don't think there'd be any trace of the supposed carnivorous Gorilla prey around, yet here, you say there'd be gnaw marks on the bones/remains... How can there be bite marks on something you say doesn't even exist? How could he compare teeth marks to gnaw marks, when you said there'd be none there to compare them to?

Would ANY type of gorilla play with human dolls,carnivorous or not?

The grand-daughter of Zaius plays with human dolls... Why wouldn't a Gorilla? The Orangutans are just as much against Humanity a the Gorillas are... So, you might have just asked would "any Ape play with a human doll?"<.html <.html

.html

Birthday Reminder from the Calendar of PotaDG Estella Warren's Birthday Thursday December 23, 2004 All Day This event repeats every year. Yahoo! Greetings Send a Yahoo! Birthday Greeting. Find Birthday Gifts Browse Yahoo! Shopping's Gift Guide

Copyright ©  2004  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.

.html<.html<.html

OK .. this always bothered me. About the doll thing...

A lot of kids H-A-T-E snakes yet play with huge, scary, wiggly
rubber snakes. I don't know if there are any "talking snake" dolls
out there, but there are talking reptiles. (What about Franklin the
turtle?)

I guess the point that Taylor made in the cave was ____________.
(What was the point again?)

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/20/2004 12:03:47 PM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > Would ANY type of gorilla play with human dolls,carnivorous or
not?
>
> The grand-daughter of Zaius plays with human dolls... Why wouldn't
a Gorilla?
> The Orangutans are just as much against Humanity a the Gorillas
are... So,
> you might have just asked would "any Ape play with a human doll?"

It bothered me too.

A talking dolly is not definitive proof of human dominance.

That's why I wrote in "Within" that there are far more conclusive
discoveries....hence Zaius would not need much convincing.

Now, I'm going to watch the TZ episode "Talking Tina"! ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: ape_mom[SMTP:SAND_HILL_SCHOOL@...]
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:57:11 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Aping Human Society -- Talking Doll
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

OK .. this always bothered me. About the doll thing...

A lot of kids H-A-T-E snakes yet play with huge, scary, wiggly
rubber snakes. I don't know if there are any "talking snake" dolls
out there, but there are talking reptiles. (What about Franklin the
turtle?)

I guess the point that Taylor made in the cave was ____________.
(What was the point again?)

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/20/2004 12:03:47 PM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > Would ANY type of gorilla play with human dolls,carnivorous or
not?
>
> The grand-daughter of Zaius plays with human dolls... Why wouldn't
a Gorilla?
> The Orangutans are just as much against Humanity a the Gorillas
are... So,
> you might have just asked would "any Ape play with a human doll?"

Do how old is she?

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com[SMTP:POTADG@...]
> Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 3:50:38 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Birthday Reminder
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Birthday <http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/my/bdaycake.gif>
Birthday Reminder from the Calendar of PotaDG
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/cal>


Estella Warren's Birthday

Thursday December 23, 2004
All Day
This event repeats every year.

Associated Press had an article a few minutes ago about a cat that
was cloned in the San Francisco area (at a cost of $50,000) for a
woman mourning the loss of her pet kitty.

The article mentions that, although dogs, cats, mice, rabbits,
goats, pigs, and horses have all been cloned, "the race is on... to
clone a monkey."

Some people are concerned that the ability to have your kitty cloned
will make it more difficult to place strays. Not likely, IMHO,
considering the cost of cloning little Puff.

Although tempted to cut and paste the article in its entirety, I
have opted to provide a link (if it works):

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?
tmpl=story2&u=/ap/20041223/ap_on_sc/cloned_cat

I've thought about this before, too. But back in the late 60's, how
many talking animal toys were there? There were plenty of movies/
cartoons around, but what about toys? If they were non-existent,
then it makes sense.

I agree it's kind of shaky though. What if they WOULD have found the
talking turtle?? Then you'd get some curious looks from Zaius and
Taylor!

John O.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> It bothered me too.
>
> A talking dolly is not definitive proof of human dominance.
>
> That's why I wrote in "Within" that there are far more conclusive
> discoveries....hence Zaius would not need much convincing.
>
> Now, I'm going to watch the TZ episode "Talking Tina"! ;)
>
> Michael
>
>
> >
> > ----------
> > From: ape_mom[SMTP:SAND_HILL_SCHOOL@Y...]
> > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:57:11 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Aping Human Society -- Talking Doll
> > Auto forwarded by a Rule
> >
>
> OK .. this always bothered me. About the doll thing...
>
> A lot of kids H-A-T-E snakes yet play with huge, scary, wiggly
> rubber snakes. I don't know if there are any "talking snake" dolls
> out there, but there are talking reptiles. (What about Franklin
the
> turtle?)
>
> I guess the point that Taylor made in the cave was ____________.
> (What was the point again?)
>
> --Helen
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 12/20/2004 12:03:47 PM Central Standard Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Would ANY type of gorilla play with human dolls,carnivorous or
> not?
> >
> > The grand-daughter of Zaius plays with human dolls... Why
wouldn't
> a Gorilla?
> > The Orangutans are just as much against Humanity a the Gorillas
> are... So,
> > you might have just asked would "any Ape play with a human doll?"

.html <.html

Good question, John O. I've started researching this and haven't
dug up a lot of talking animals, but... guess what I did find. On
ebay: 1964 MATTEL CHESTER O'CHIMP TALKING CHIMP! (You don't suppose
that we DID evolve from chimps, do you?!)

--Helen

Now I'm worried!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John O." <jspy@w...> wrote:
>
> I've thought about this before, too. But back in the late 60's,
how
> many talking animal toys were there? There were plenty of movies/
> cartoons around, but what about toys? If they were non-existent,
> then it makes sense.
>
> I agree it's kind of shaky though. What if they WOULD have found
the
> talking turtle?? Then you'd get some curious looks from Zaius and
> Taylor!
>
> John O.
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...>
wrote:
> > It bothered me too.
> >
> > A talking dolly is not definitive proof of human dominance.
> >
> > That's why I wrote in "Within" that there are far more conclusive
> > discoveries....hence Zaius would not need much convincing.
> >
> > Now, I'm going to watch the TZ episode "Talking Tina"! ;)
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > >
> > > ----------
> > > From: ape_mom[SMTP:SAND_HILL_SCHOOL@Y...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:57:11 PM
> > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Aping Human Society -- Talking Doll
> > > Auto forwarded by a Rule
> > >
> >
> > OK .. this always bothered me. About the doll thing...
> >
> > A lot of kids H-A-T-E snakes yet play with huge, scary, wiggly
> > rubber snakes. I don't know if there are any "talking snake"
dolls
> > out there, but there are talking reptiles. (What about Franklin
> the
> > turtle?)
> >
> > I guess the point that Taylor made in the cave was
____________.
> > (What was the point again?)
> >
> > --Helen
> >
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 12/20/2004 12:03:47 PM Central Standard
Time,
> > > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Would ANY type of gorilla play with human dolls,carnivorous
or
> > not?
> > >
> > > The grand-daughter of Zaius plays with human dolls... Why
> wouldn't
> > a Gorilla?
> > > The Orangutans are just as much against Humanity a the
Gorillas
> > are... So,
> > > you might have just asked would "any Ape play with a human
doll?"

Or my twins' talking Teletubbies!

Explain those little freaks with TVs in their tummies!

Maybe the doll was just to set up the big clincher (Ms Liberty).

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: John O.[SMTP:JSPY@...]
> Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 4:06:07 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Aping Human Society -- Talking Doll
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

I've thought about this before, too. But back in the late 60's, how
many talking animal toys were there? There were plenty of movies/
cartoons around, but what about toys? If they were non-existent,
then it makes sense.

I agree it's kind of shaky though. What if they WOULD have found the
talking turtle?? Then you'd get some curious looks from Zaius and
Taylor!

John O.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> It bothered me too.
>
> A talking dolly is not definitive proof of human dominance.
>
> That's why I wrote in "Within" that there are far more conclusive
> discoveries....hence Zaius would not need much convincing.
>
> Now, I'm going to watch the TZ episode "Talking Tina"! ;)
>
> Michael

.html <.html

.html

Quo Vadis was on today. 

Interestingly the giant played

by Buddy Baer's (the Uncle of

Beverly Hillbillies Max Baer Jr)

character was called Ursus.  I

also saw The Gloden Age Of

Broadway.  The POTA people

didn't have much screen time. 

James Naugthton had more

screen time in the extras

then in the film. And except

for the Marlon Brando section

Kim Hunter didn't have much more.

 

<.html

lol. That's hilarious! What if they would have found the talking
chimp instead, or there were both dolls there? Good job, Helen.

These are the phrases that Chester says with an Irish accent:
When I grow up I'm gonna be a great big chump...er, chimp!
Don't call me a baboon... that's Cousin Elmer
Don't just feed me bananas...I like people food
I speak English hahaha Can't you talk monkey?
Ah it's marvelous, it tis.. How we look so much alike
I'll be a monkey's uncle... oh I am
How about going into Monkey business?
I'm just a little chimp, diddle, diddle dumb


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>
wrote:

>
> Good question, John O. I've started researching this and haven't
> dug up a lot of talking animals, but... guess what I did find. On
> ebay: 1964 MATTEL CHESTER O'CHIMP TALKING CHIMP! (You don't

suppose

> that we DID evolve from chimps, do you?!)
>
> --Helen
>
> Now I'm worried!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John O." <jspy@w...> wrote:
> >
> > I've thought about this before, too. But back in the late 60's,
> how
> > many talking animal toys were there? There were plenty of

movies/

> > cartoons around, but what about toys? If they were non-existent,
> > then it makes sense.
> >
> > I agree it's kind of shaky though. What if they WOULD have found
> the
> > talking turtle?? Then you'd get some curious looks from Zaius

and

> > Taylor!
> >
> > John O.
> >

Neil, That's a loaded question i've been avoiding until
I could at least get a trailer out there. I just did:

http://msotis.home.mindspring.com/potmtrlr.wmv

I did this in a couple of hours as a DVD screen saver. I'd
like to return to this ASAP and include more complete shots to give
you a better idea.

It's a heavily compressed WMV. I hope your're able to read it.

LMK,
Matt

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "sotis_matthew" <sotis_matthew@y...>
> wrote:
> > Remember her? She made more than a guest appearance alongside you
> in POTM as the first dog to go from the "virus from space"...
>
> -- Matt, I think Chris mentioned earlier that you sell DVD copies
of
> this movie (or will be when it is finished?). Is this correct? and
> if so are you able to give us details?
>
> Neil

.html <.html

Well said. Bravo gents! More...

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> Foster,
>
> Your art work on this is great... Where were you when ADVENTURE was
churning
> out their bullsh*t? You could have shown those guys a few things...
>
> And Whitty, your story is moving along nicely... So far, your
script is doing
> good... Way better than anything ADVENTURE or the "original story"
authors of
> MARVEL'S stuff came up with...

Zaius , zira and Cornelius have all arrived.......and
I think they look pretty good! (Rory? Rebuttal?) Is it
my imagination (still haven't unpackaged them) or is
Zira packing some serious boobage?
Have a great holiday all you apeheads around the
world.!

Tim



__________________________________

I just downloaded the "PLANET OF THE MEN" mpeg, and it's great! Those
gorilla make-ups and costumes are terrific. Did APEMANIA have
anything to do with this? From what I've seen of their stuff, as good
as they are, their gorilla costumes aren't as good as the ones in
this little teaser.

I'd love to see the full movie. If it isn't completed yet, is there
any chance of the script/screenplay being posted here?

I've recently seen some "STAR WARS" and "STAR TREK"-based fan-films,
and though they range in quality from "mediocre" to "not bad", this
little POTA fan-film blows 'em out of the water. At least, the
visuals in this trailer do.

Hat's off to the dudes who've been making this movie!

Patrick

P.S. Sorry to hear about the recent passing of your dog. We had to
put down our basset hound, Baskerville, earlier this year, and it's
rough. Let's all be glad there ain't no Pet Plague to deprive us of
ALL dogs and cats...

.html.html In a message dated 12/24/04 1:09:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Do how old is she?

Michael

Old enough!

-- Rory<.html <.html

Thanks Patrick, You just made my Christmas! Believe it or not,
most of the costumes and guns are real props. I did the makeups
and a few fake props (I was moonlighting doing makeup effects
for NY productions), Mark Gonzalez did the machine gun and pistol.
The background plates were shot on a vacation in Lake Powell in 1996.
I had built an early digital video platform, shot myself in front of
a blue screen, then composited it all (photoshop and premiere on a
120 MHZ NEC!, it took hours for each composite) on the background
plates. That worked out so well, I enlisted my wife to shoot the
outdoor footage where i'd wear multiple masks and split screen the
shots to look like an army. I played the short at a few conventions
where the feedback was so good, I had to continue. At that point,
Chris Hight jumped in, my brother doubled as me so I could film when
my wife became pregnant, and the whole project got out of hand. Now
three video platforms later (the latest machine is currently dead,
but i'll get it back up soon; too many outstanding projects), that
project is over two hours and probably about 60% complete. With all
this revived interest, i've got more time on my hands (the triplets
are almost 5 now) I might just complete this after all.
Sorry to hear about your basset hound (great name Baskerville!).My
last dog was a basset. I'll miss my cocker, but she'll live forever
in this flick. Now to complete it so you can see her!
Have a great holiday!
Matt



--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

>
> I just downloaded the "PLANET OF THE MEN" mpeg, and it's great!

Those

> gorilla make-ups and costumes are terrific. Did APEMANIA have
> anything to do with this? From what I've seen of their stuff, as

good

> as they are, their gorilla costumes aren't as good as the ones in
> this little teaser.
>
> I'd love to see the full movie. If it isn't completed yet, is

there

> any chance of the script/screenplay being posted here?
>
> I've recently seen some "STAR WARS" and "STAR TREK"-based fan-

films,

> and though they range in quality from "mediocre" to "not bad",

this

> little POTA fan-film blows 'em out of the water. At least, the
> visuals in this trailer do.
>
> Hat's off to the dudes who've been making this movie!
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. Sorry to hear about the recent passing of your dog. We had to
> put down our basset hound, Baskerville, earlier this year, and

it's

> rough. Let's all be glad there ain't no Pet Plague to deprive us

of

> ALL dogs and cats...

.html.html In a message dated 12/24/04 2:39:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

I talked to Booth Colman today. He said he's going to be in Florida in March to do a convention (Ft. Lauderdale). Those Florida fans who want to meet him, take note. He asked that someone bring a ham sandwich on rye. He has a "rye" sense of humor. - - - Jeff

Well, I live in Ft. Lauderdale.  Got anymore info on what this convention is?  If this really happens, I'll go -- if only to tell him I thought the POTA TV show sucked!

No, I'd actually ask him other things.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 11:42 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Booth Colman alert

In a message dated 12/24/04 2:39:35 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

I talked to Booth Colman today. He said he's going to be in Florida in March to do a convention (Ft. Lauderdale). Those Florida fans who want to meet him, take note. He asked that someone bring a ham sandwich on rye. He has a "rye" sense of humor. - - - Jeff

Well, I live in Ft. Lauderdale.  Got anymore info on what this convention is?  If this really happens, I'll go -- if only to tell him I thought the POTA TV show sucked!

No, I'd actually ask him other things.

-- Rory

<.html

.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 12/24/2004 2:26:41 P.M. Central Standard Time, sotis_matthew@... writes:

Neil, That's a loaded question i've been avoiding until
I could at least get a trailer out there. I just did:

 

Wow!  That was brilliant!    How did you do that?

You should have used appliances instead of masks

though.  All the other production values are so high.

It's a shame to have that bringing it down a notch. I

just have one question.  Where did the gorillas find

another ship?  If Brent's was wrecked they'd have to

be bigger geniuses than Dr. Milo to put it together.

 

 

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/24/04 3:58:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

It bothered me too.

A talking dolly is not definitive proof of human dominance.

That's why I wrote in "Within" that there are far more conclusive
discoveries....hence Zaius would not need much convincing.

Zaius didn't need any convincing -- he knew the truth -- and he's right!  Man is everything and more that Zaius said he was!

Personally, I've always wondered how Taylor avoided seeing that "Made in Japan" mark on the back of the doll's neck.

-- Rory the Misanthrope.<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , <veetus@e...> wrote:

> "But Cornelius and Zira so loved the world that they gave us

their only son so that all apes would be saved..."

> Oh, sorry. Wrong story. Anyway, I hope everyone has a great

holiday and remembers that other guy. Jeff

Awww, you beat me to it Jeff! I thought I would get in first seeing
as it is already Christmas day down here! The presents are all open
the kids are quiet for the first time this week and I'm going back
to bed for a few hours...

Have a great day all!

Neil

.html

Zaius didn't need any convincing -- he knew the truth -- and he's right!  Man is everything and more that Zaius said he was!

Personally, I've always wondered how Taylor avoided seeing that "Made in Japan" mark on the back of the doll's neck.

-- Rory the Misanthrope.

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/24/04 12:55:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, jspy@... writes:

I've thought about this before, too.  But back in the late 60's, how
many talking animal toys were there? 

That crap from DOCTOR DOLITTLE and those "Banana Splits" things, not to mention "Mr. Ed" -- Oh, I just mentioned him!

-- Rory<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/20/2004 12:03:47 PM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> >
> > The bones of any critters the gorillas may have eaten would have

bite marks on 'em, and -- using the gorilla skulls he found --
Cornelius could've compared the gnaw-scratches on the bones with the
jaws and teeth of the gorillas, to see if THOSE teeth made THOSE
marks.

>
> This statement makes no sense, only because in your post, you

stated that you don't think there'd be any trace of the supposed
carnivorous Gorilla prey around, yet here, you say there'd be gnaw
marks on the bones/remains... How can there be bite marks on
something you say doesn't even exist? How could he compare teeth
marks to gnaw marks, when you said there'd be none there to compare
them to?
-------------------------------------------------
*** I said there'd be no trace of the gnawed-on carcasses of the prey
IN THE CAVE, which is where those carnivorous gorillas dwelt (Zaius
calls it a "house"); that does NOT mean that Cornelius wouldn't have
found the place where those carcasses were tossed, and thus gotten
the opportunity to compare gnaw-marks on the prey's bones with the
gorilla teeth/jaws. You were the one who said there was no evidence
of any bones of critters eaten by supposedly carnivorous gorillas,
and I was pointing out that the bones wouldn't be found THERE, in the
cave, but COULD have been found by Cornelius elsewhere -- in some
sort of trashheap outside, perhaps. Maybe the gorillas just tossed
the carcasses out of the cave, letting them bounce off the rock cliff
below. When Cornelius (and whoever helped him) built the wooden
scaffolding, he had to have worked in that spot just below the Cave's
entrance -- and he COULD have found anything that may have been
tossed there.

Imagine Cornelius and a friend -- let's suppose it WAS Milo who
accompanied him on his previous trip to the Forbidden Zone, and
helped him with his work -- let's imagine them riding their horses
along the shoreline, hugging the cliff to their left (due to their
innate ape-dislike of the water)... and they find a heap of animal
bones at the base of the cliff. They look up... and notice that the
cliff-face has a gaping hole in it. It's a CAVE... and the bones of
some critters had obviously been tossed OUT of that cave by whomever
had once dwelt in that cave...

So they climb up the cliff, to check out the site. And, after doing
some digging, Cornelius eventually finds those "cutting tools", etc.

My point, Cougar, is that Cornelius -- being a professional,
practising archaeologist -- would NOT have just hurled out a slander
at a bunch of long-dead gorillas, as you seem to think him capable of
doing. He would have seen EVIDENCE of their carnivorism, and THEN
come to the shocking conclusion that THESE gorillas -- these apes in
a stage of "primitive barbarism" -- indeed DID eat animal flesh! He
dates them to a century or so BEFORE the Lawgiver, and I think it's
likely that the Ape society in 3955 is strictly vegetarian, so that
the discovery of CARNIVORISM in pre-Lawgiver apes (gorillas, in this
instance) is especially noteworthy.

Think about it: the Apes in 3955 are facing a FAMINE... yet, IF they
aren't strictly vegetarian, and ARE willing to eat animal flesh, then
why wouldn't they eat HUMAN flesh? After all, today in Africa there
are humans who poach endangered gorillas and chimpanzees -- to EAT
them. If the Apes are on the verge of a famine -- a situation so
urgent that Ursus is able to use the threat of impending starvation
to justify an invasion of the Forbidden Zone [Ursus: "Now we must
replenish the land that was ravaged by the humans with new, improved
feeding grounds, and these grounds we can obtain in the once-
Forbidden Zone; it is, therefore, our Holy Duty to enter it... to put
our feet upon it... to put the marks of our Guns, our Wheels, and our
Flag upon it... to exPAND the boundaries of our ineluctable Power...
and to invade... inVade... Invade... INVAAAADE!"] -- if an impending
Famine is cause for the entire Ape populace to set aside the
Lawgiver's taboo, His declaration that the entire region
was "deadly" -- then WHY NOT EAT THE FLESH OF THE HUMANS?

Simple: these apes are strictly vegetarian. It is probably a
religious duty to NOT eat animal flesh.

And then Cornelius finds evidence of FLESH-EATING gorillas who once
dwelt in a Cave in the Forbidden Zone a century before the Lawgiver.
When he refers to them as "carnivorous", Zaius doesn't say, "Whaaat?
Carnivorous gorillas? Are you out of your MIND, Cornelius? No ape
would EVER eat animal flesh! What evidence do you have that these
gorillas ate meat? I DEMAND you show me, before you say anything MORE
about this so-called "ancient civilization" you say once existed!"

Why DOESN'T Zaius say anything? Perhaps he could easily explain away
the gorillas' carnivorism: prior to the coming of the Lawgiver, who
wrote the Sacred Scrolls -- the "bible", or "Quran" of the Apes, the
Word of their Simian God -- Apes were "pagan" and didn't know how to
live according to "God's Way"... necessitating God to send His
Prophet, the Lawgiver, to SHOW them the way... to give them His
Divine Laws, along with their Language and their dietary laws. Think
of the ape-version of Leviticus, going into detail about exactly WHAT
an ape can eat and still be considered pure.

It isn't the gorilla-artifacts, though, that Zaius has to worry
about. It's the stuff that Cornelius dates back "another seven
centuries" -- i.e. to OUR time, the late 20th/early 21st Centuries --
that Zaius has to contend with. "... the more ANCIENT culture is the
more ADVANCED" as Cornelius shows.

I just don't think Cornelius has the animosity against gorillas that
Zira will show in "BENEATH". Remember, in "PLANET" there's no clue
whatsoever that Zira has anti-gorilla feelings. Her lab assistant,
Julius, is on good terms with her, isn't he? She doesn't treat HIM
like he's a creep. Oh, she lets him get knocked out when she sends
her nephew Lucius in -- to spring Taylor from his cage; that act
necessitated konking Julius on the head. But Zira doesn't BECOME a
gorilla-despiser until Ursus becomes the Head-of-State. It is Ursus'
decision to invade the Forbidden Zone -- a "senseless military
adventure" as she calls it -- that makes her despise gorillas; and,
by then, after having endured Ursus' speech before the Citizens'
Council, she looks down on ALL gorillas. Why? Because the entire
gorilla contingent, seated in the center section of the amphitheater,
enthusiastically supported Ursus' warmongering stance. Ursus' speech
is "bile" to her -- and she thinks that all gorillas are vicious,
now, because they've been breast-fed on that bile -- RAISED on that
pro-military, pro-armed-agression "party platform" -- rather than
being raised on "the milk of chimpanzees... the milk of KINDNESS."

Zira BECAME a racist when Ursus took -- I think "seized" -- power.
She saw where Ursus' militarism would lead, and she deplored the fact
that her political leanings were the minority view. As Cornelius
laments, "We chimpanzees are too few... How can we seize the
initiative while THEY [the gorillas] are in control?" The gorillas,
remember, represent only a THIRD of the ape population; they are able
to get their way politically ONLY because the ORANGUTANS have backed
them -- perhaps reluctantly, but that's the way it is. They fear what
might happen to them if they go against Ursus, in this time
of "martial law".

Cornelius and Zira, prior to Ursus seizing power, did not show such
anti-gorilla sentiment, in "PLANET". Zira called SOME
gorillas "fools" -- but she says this to Julius, who himself is a
gorilla. Her animus was on the gorillas who got rough with Bright
Eyes and the other fighting human in the outdoor cage, "the fools and
their torches" -- which singed Taylor's shoulder. She sends Julius,
a "good" gorilla, off to get some ointment for her to treat Taylor's
burn.

I just don't see Cornelius as an anti-gorilla racist in "PLANET",
willing to lie about a long-dead group of gorillas -- slandering them
by calling them "carnivorous" with no evidence to back it up. He is
never ASKED for any evidence of their carnivorism; but if he had
been, I'm sure he could have shown it to Zaius. He HAD to have had
valid archaeological proof of their carnivorism, in order for him to
have described them as such. That evidence would have taken several
forms: wear-marks on their teeth (evidence of them having chewed
flesh and gnawed on bone), gnaw-marks on the bones of the critters
they first ate and THEN tossed outside (marks which he could then
compare to the teeth-and-jaws of the gorilla skulls), etc. Hell, he
could even have found bone-chips in coprolites left behind -- yes,
I'm talking about fossilized gorilla poop. If Cornelius had found
some coprolites somewhere around there, there very well might be some
undigested small bone-chips in their feces. If Zaius HAD demanded
evidence of carnivorism, Cornelius COULD have presented such
evidence.

Think of it: if Zaius HAD demanded that he back up his claim that the
gorillas were carnivores, and if Cornelius could NOT present any
evidence to back it up, then ANY other theory he may have cooked up
to explain OTHER artifacts would be looked on as dubious. If he isn't
competent enough to FULLY back up his ideas about a 1,300-year-old
find, then he'd be laughed at for concocting a dotty theory about
2,000-year-old intelligent humans -- just prior to being put on trial
for heresy, and stripped of his doctorate in archaeology.
==============================================================

>
>
> > Would ANY type of gorilla play with human dolls,carnivorous or

not?

>
> The grand-daughter of Zaius plays with human dolls... Why wouldn't

a Gorilla? The Orangutans are just as much against Humanity as the
Gorillas are... So, you might have just asked would "any Ape play
with a human doll?"

*** Cornelius refers to those "carnivorous gorillas" as being "in a
stage of PRIMITIVE BARBARISM". Now, sure, I could imagine a species
of cultured, intellectual gorillas in 3955 having daughters who might
like to play with dolls, just as orangutan girls do.

But primitive barbarians? Would THEY play with dolls of ANY kind? Is
it likely that they -- using primitive stone "cutting tools" and
fashioning arrowheads for either hunting or warfare or both -- would
have the technological capacity to make the talking doll that we see
in the movie? The doll is made out of some type of plastic, I would
imagine, with CLOTHING on it.

Would primitive, carnivorous, weapon-making barbarians be able to
make -- let alone appreciate -- a talking plastic CLOTHED human doll
that TALKS?

Isn't it interesting that NOBODY mentions the fact that the human
doll has CLOTHING on it? Isn't THAT just as remarkable as the fact
that it can TALK? The doll wasn't wearing clothing that was "fit for
humans" -- the "rags" that Taylor wore, which gave off a stench. The
doll was of a little girl, wearing a pretty dress. Humans in 3955 are
NOT dressed up in pretty dresses -- they wear raggy loincloths and
little else.

Perhaps Zaius would argue that an ape might make a human doll with
ape-clothing, just as we humans tend to anthropomorphize animals, so
that Donald Duck wears a sailor's outfit, etc. And he talks, too.

Planet of the Ducks!

I just think it's ludicrous that primitive barbarian meat-eating
savages would play with dolls. Cultured, sophisticated, intelligent
gorillas in 3955 might have daughters who play with dolls, but NOT
the types of gorillas who lived in that Cave.

Patrick

.html

In a message dated 12/24/2004 12:09:45 P.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Do how old is she?

Hoooooooooow Oooooooooooooooooold is she?

I thought you were talking about Estelle Winwood.

I thought maybe she played Dead Stewart.  She's

121.  Or she would've been if she hadn't died at 101.

 

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/24/04 7:27:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, apefan23@... writes:

Zaius , zira and Cornelius have all arrived.......and
I think they look pretty good! (Rory? Rebuttal?)

I guess you got yours directly from Sideshow.  I have to wait until Amoktime sends me mine.  I got the other Zaius from them, so I have the two Zaiuses.  I've think the one in the coat looks pretty good, but I'm also becoming found of the other one.  They're both out of the package.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/24/04 5:40:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

I'll have to ask what day. They're paying his air fare, etc. If you want to tell him the show sucked, that's fine. He'll probably agree with you. He can sign the DVDs "Sorry it sucked", since he looms large on the cover. - - - Jeff

I never thought of that.  I could get him to sign the cover.  I guess I have to pay though.

Didn't he also know Maurice Evans?  I'd like to ask him questions about him.  I also saw an episode of BONANZA a few months ago that had both Booth Colman and James Gregory in it.  I think Gregory killed Colman, or something like that.  Small town that Hollyrock.

-- Rory<.html <.html

Hey Thanks! Actually they were appliance masks. This way they
were reusable and hours wouldn't have to be spent in the makeup
chair. The only draw back is that the eyes would have to be
cleaned up (touched up frame by frame) later for the closeups,
most of which hadn't been done yet in the trailer. I am trying to
avoid talking about the story (don't want to give too much away),
but I took the Roddenbery approach to the spaceship; avoid
too much techno-babble, just say warp speed, press the button and go.
After all, the gorillas aren't exactly rocket scientists, and all
they did say about Brent's ship was that the computer was shot.
Ultimately though, it's just a vehicle for telling the story
and it's more interesting focusing on their reaction. I only recently
returned to working on the ship. Originally, I used the 6" vacuform
ship, and have been remastering the shots using a copy of the 12"
prototype. All I need is time.....

Thanks Again!
Matt

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/24/2004 2:26:41 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> sotis_matthew@y... writes:
>
>
> Neil, That's a loaded question i've been avoiding until
> I could at least get a trailer out there. I just did:
>
>
>
> Wow! That was brilliant! How did you do that?
> You should have used appliances instead of masks
> though. All the other production values are so high.
> It's a shame to have that bringing it down a notch. I
> just have one question. Where did the gorillas find
> another ship? If Brent's was wrecked they'd have to
> be bigger geniuses than Dr. Milo to put it together.

.html.html In a message dated 12/24/04 5:55:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

The article mentions that, although dogs, cats, mice, rabbits,
goats, pigs, and horses have all been cloned, "the race is on... to
clone a monkey." 

And so it begins.....


What fools, Mankind.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/24/04 3:51:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

Yesterday Dr Zaius arrived here, I ordered him from Amoktime. I swear he is grinning at me!
Elaine

I got mine from Amoktime the other day too.  This version I like.  Love the baby Lawgiver.  Taking yours out of the box, Elaine?  I was going to wait until Christmas morning, but I forgot.  I wonder when Cornelius and Zira will arrive?

-- Rory

<.html<.html

Yes.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/24/04 5:55:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
>
> > The article mentions that, although dogs, cats, mice, rabbits,
> > goats, pigs, and horses have all been cloned, "the race is on...
to
> > clone a monkey."
> >
>
> And so it begins.....
>
>
> What fools, Mankind.
>
> -- Rory

Yeah - just off to lunch and it feels like bed tine already!

Have a wonderful day round the world!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Neil[SMTP:NFOSTER@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 8:39:41 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Merry Christmas
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> "But Cornelius and Zira so loved the world that they gave us
their only son so that all apes would be saved..."
> Oh, sorry. Wrong story. Anyway, I hope everyone has a great
holiday and remembers that other guy. Jeff

Awww, you beat me to it Jeff! I thought I would get in first seeing
as it is already Christmas day down here! The presents are all open
the kids are quiet for the first time this week and I'm going back
to bed for a few hours...

Have a great day all!

Neil









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--

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 10:19 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: [Aping Human Society -- Talking Doll

In a message dated 12/24/04 12:55:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, jspy@... writes:

I've thought about this before, too.  But back in the late 60's, how
many talking animal toys were there? 

That crap from DOCTOR DOLITTLE and those "Banana Splits" things, not to mention "Mr. Ed" -- Oh, I just mentioned him!

-- Rory

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/24/2004 6:38:35 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Think about it: the Apes in 3955 are facing a FAMINE... yet, IF they
aren't strictly vegetarian, and ARE willing to eat animal flesh, then
why wouldn't they eat HUMAN flesh?

I really don't believe they are facing famine... At least the house of Zira and Cornelius looks to be well stocked with food goods, and if they are "facing famine," would Zira been so carefree about baking a cake? No, she wouldn't... She'd be rationing all the ingredients, including the chocolate...

Face it, the "famine" is Ursus' "excuse" to annihilate the Humans and expand the Apes territory, all while building up his own power base... His imperialistic ambitions are the motive, not any food shortage...

<.html <.html

Thanks to Greg P., issue 10 of the Marvel UK comic is now available
for download:

http://www.goatley.com/pota/

Hunter

.html.html In a message dated 12/24/2004 6:38:35 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Ursus' speech is "bile" to her -- and she thinks that all gorillas are vicious,
now, because they've been breast-fed on that bile -- RAISED on that
pro-military, pro-armed-agression "party platform" -- rather than
being raised on "the milk of chimpanzees... the milk of KINDNESS."

She also says that Gorillas "are cruel because they're stupid, all bone and no brain."
and in ESCAPE, she calls them "militaristic nincompoops." Those opinions aren't just formed overnight because of a warhawk's speech and the audiences approval... She thinks they "are all that way, because they are raised that way"... She holds contempt for them, I'm sure even for Julius... (Because face it, Julius is just there to do the physical work. He can clean up after her specimens, but he'd never be smart enough to research them, that's how I'm guessing she'd feel towards him...)

<.html<.html

I had mine sent to my Mom's and she is going to bring them up
(wrapped) for me tomorrow. :)) I can't wait to see them!

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/24/04 3:51:11 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> taebokitti@a... writes:
>
>
> > Yesterday Dr Zaius arrived here, I ordered him from Amoktime. I
swear he is
> > grinning at me!
> > Elaine
> >
>
> I got mine from Amoktime the other day too. This version I like.
Love the
> baby Lawgiver. Taking yours out of the box, Elaine? I was going
to wait until
> Christmas morning, but I forgot. I wonder when Cornelius and Zira
will
> arrive?
>
> -- Rory

Sorry for posting Christmas greetings twice. Looks like Yahoo is
running behind again. Must be the holiday traffic.

--Helen

Shane is a member here Terry!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Hoknes[SMTP:TERRYHOKNES@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 6:45:54 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com; pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] PlanetoftheApes-ForAll@... POTA

BOOK

> 2000
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Some info I am forwarding from Kasey's msn group

I was re-reading a book today that I read a couple of years before I
started
to like the Planet of the Apes. It is one of my favorite books, but I
didn't
realize that it had so many PotA TV series references in it.
For instance we have a Dr. Al Virdon. Thought it might be a coincidence
at
first, but then as I read further I found a Pete Burke. Thought that
this
was slightly interesting.
If you wanna check out the book it is called The Last Guardian by Shane
Johnson. Very good book.

It was published in 2000, but the man who wrote it started writing with
his
friend in 1975.

Rory - what in particular "sucked" about the TV Show?

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: veetus@...[SMTP:VEETUS@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 7:25:13 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Booth Colman alert
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

I'll have to ask what day. They're paying his air fare, etc. If you
want
to tell him the show sucked, that's fine. He'll probably agree with you.
He
can sign the DVDs "Sorry it sucked", since he looms large on the cover.
- -
- Jeff

Thanks Helen.

Only half an hour of Xmas left over here!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: ape_mom[SMTP:SAND_HILL_SCHOOL@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 5:17:30 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Merry Christmas
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Merry Christmas to all. (And to all a good night...) I hope you
all have a great day and get all the stuff you have wished for. To
those on the other side of the world, belated holiday greetings.
May God bless us, every one.

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Yeah - just off to lunch and it feels like bed tine already!
>
> Have a wonderful day round the world!
>
> Michael
>

That's OK!

It beats wishing POTA2001 stars a Happy Birthday! ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: ape_mom[SMTP:SAND_HILL_SCHOOL@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 5:37:29 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Oops..
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Sorry for posting Christmas greetings twice. Looks like Yahoo is
running behind again. Must be the holiday traffic.

--Helen

That's precisely as I saw it - like the "shortage of oil" our
politicians warn us of - so they can double the price!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: mlccougar@...[SMTP:MLCCOUGAR@...]
> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 4:52:37 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Famine of the Apes?
> Auto forwarded by a Rule

Face it, the "famine" is Ursus' "excuse" to annihilate the Humans and
expand
the Apes territory, all while building up his own power base... His
imperialistic ambitions are the motive, not any food shortage...

.html.html In a message dated 12/25/04 7:20:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Rory - what in particular "sucked" about the TV Show?

Michael

Just about everything was wrong with the TV Show.  It was set on the wrong coast, the humans talked, the apes acted like ignorant boobs, Urko was a dummy, Galen was fey, the astronauts were boring, the whole "fugitives on the run" formula was trite, the writing was mediocre, direction was unimaginative, they didn't get Jerry Goldsmith to do the opening credits, the gorillas didn't have their fur collars, Colman's Zaius hair style looked awful, the chin appliances often didn't properly fit the actors wearing them so that when they talked the mouth just stayed opened and didn't move, the apes were often shot from bad angles or with poor lighting that made the makeup look absurd, the humans clothes looked silly, Galen acted like a twit too often, the show looked cheap, it wasn't the original movie.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 9:52 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Famine of the Apes?

In a message dated 12/24/2004 6:38:35 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Think about it: the Apes in 3955 are facing a FAMINE... yet, IF they
aren't strictly vegetarian, and ARE willing to eat animal flesh, then
why wouldn't they eat HUMAN flesh?

I really don't believe they are facing famine... At least the house of Zira and Cornelius looks to be well stocked with food goods, and if they are "facing famine," would Zira been so carefree about baking a cake? No, she wouldn't... She'd be rationing all the ingredients, including the chocolate...

Face it, the "famine" is Ursus' "excuse" to annihilate the Humans and expand the Apes territory, all while building up his own power base... His imperialistic ambitions are the motive, not any food shortage...

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 4:35 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The Show that Suckethed

In a message dated 12/25/04 7:20:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Rory - what in particular "sucked" about the TV Show?

Michael

Just about everything was wrong with the TV Show.  It was set on the wrong coast, the humans talked, the apes acted like ignorant boobs, Urko was a dummy, Galen was fey, the astronauts were boring, the whole "fugitives on the run" formula was trite, the writing was mediocre, direction was unimaginative, they didn't get Jerry Goldsmith to do the opening credits, the gorillas didn't have their fur collars, Colman's Zaius hair style looked awful, the chin appliances often didn't properly fit the actors wearing them so that when they talked the mouth just stayed opened and didn't move, the apes were often shot from bad angles or with poor lighting that made the makeup look absurd, the humans clothes looked silly, Galen acted like a twit too often, the show looked cheap, it wasn't the original movie.

-- Rory

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/25/04 11:32:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

And Rory secretly LOVED every minute of it, the big lug! At least take the TV show out of your DVD player when you write things like that. - - - Jeff

I have to watch it to remind myself of what I dislike about it.

I forgot to mention the gloves that Roddy McDowall wore.  Really bad.  If I'd directed those shows I'd have said to Roddy, "Get your hands properly made up, or I'll kick your ass!"

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/25/2004 11:54:30 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I forgot to mention the gloves that Roddy McDowall wore.  Really bad.  If I'd directed those shows I'd have said to Roddy, "Get your hands properly made up, or I'll kick your ass!"

That is one thing I don't like on there either... They do look like sh*t... (And in some episodes, even Zaius <and I "think" Urko> wear(s) them...) It was probably just another time saving device for the make-up people, although Roddy has always mentioned hating the hand toupees, so in his case anyway, it was probably something he requested...<.html <.html

I actually DID love the TV Show! AND I still LOVE it. I just
don't LIKE it very much.

It does not really hold up to scrutiny when I watch it now.

I know I am going to lose popularity (could I BE any less popular?;)
for saying this but I struggle to stay awake through most episodes.
I think it had great potential though and I hope I'm not offending
anyone, but the stories I am writing for the new comic are
(hopefully) the way a modern TV Show would be - and the way I really
think the original show SHOULD have been.

Anyway - we'll see how you all like it I suppose!

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> And Rory secretly LOVED every minute of it, the big lug! At
least take the TV show out of your DVD player when you write things
like that. - - - Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Haristas@a...
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 4:35 AM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The Show that Suckethed
>
>
> In a message dated 12/25/04 7:20:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
whitty@c... writes:
>
>
>
> Rory - what in particular "sucked" about the TV Show?
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> Just about everything was wrong with the TV Show. It was set on
the wrong coast, the humans talked, the apes acted like ignorant
boobs, Urko was a dummy, Galen was fey, the astronauts were boring,
the whole "fugitives on the run" formula was trite, the writing was
mediocre, direction was unimaginative, they didn't get Jerry
Goldsmith to do the opening credits, the gorillas didn't have their
fur collars, Colman's Zaius hair style looked awful, the chin
appliances often didn't properly fit the actors wearing them so that
when they talked the mouth just stayed opened and didn't move, the
apes were often shot from bad angles or with poor lighting that made
the makeup look absurd, the humans clothes looked silly, Galen acted
like a twit too often, the show looked cheap, it wasn't the original
movie.
>
> -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.

Cougar,

Are you in agreeance with Rory about the shortcomings of the TV Show>

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/25/2004 11:54:30 AM Central Standard Time,
> Haristas@a... writes:
>
> >
> > I forgot to mention the gloves that Roddy McDowall wore. Really
bad. If
> > I'd directed those shows I'd have said to Roddy, "Get your hands
properly made
> > up, or I'll kick your ass!"
>
> That is one thing I don't like on there either... They do look
like sh*t...
> (And in some episodes, even Zaius <and I "think" Urko> wear(s)
them...) It was
> probably just another time saving device for the make-up people,
although
> Roddy has always mentioned hating the hand toupees, so in his case
anyway, it was
> probably something he requested...

.html.html In a message dated 12/25/04 4:46:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I know I am going to lose popularity (could I BE any less popular?;)
for saying this but I struggle to stay awake through most episodes. 

I was going to add that the show is boring but I thought that would be cruel.

It's a typical 20th Century-Fox Sci-Fi TV show of the era.  It's no worse or better than the Irwin Allen dreck that is "Lost in Space," "Land of the Giants" and the others.  Most of you probably aren't all that familiar with another Fox show from a few years earlier that shot a lot at the Century Ranch, "Daniel Boone."  Well, a lot of the POTA TV show plays like "Daniel Boone" with monkeys.

I've talked about this with Joe Russo, who also doesn't find watching the show that enjoyable, on how amazing it is that there are so many POTA fans who had their first exposure to it through the TV show and love the show better than anything else POTA.  They know the movies are better, or at least the original, but it was the show that captivated them as kids.  Amazing.  I think it's just largely nostalgia for a childhood lost.  We all have that because of the sheltered childhoods we enjoy, and to a large degree it's not POTA, it just happens to be POTA.  That's what came along at a certain time and a certain age.  For a huge part of the population it was either STAR TREK or STAR WARS, for us it was POTA.  For the kids of today it's LOTR.  Whatever.

-- Rory<.html <.html

Rory,

Surely you at least showed some joy as a child when you saw the TV
Show?

I think the pilot was extraordinarily good - is there any one
episode you really liked?

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/25/04 4:46:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
>
>
> > I know I am going to lose popularity (could I BE any less
popular?;)
> > for saying this but I struggle to stay awake through most
episodes.
> >
>
> I was going to add that the show is boring but I thought that
would be cruel.
>
> It's a typical 20th Century-Fox Sci-Fi TV show of the era. It's
no worse or
> better than the Irwin Allen dreck that is "Lost in Space," "Land
of the
> Giants" and the others. Most of you probably aren't all that
familiar with another
> Fox show from a few years earlier that shot a lot at the Century
Ranch,
> "Daniel Boone." Well, a lot of the POTA TV show plays
like "Daniel Boone" with
> monkeys.
>
> I've talked about this with Joe Russo, who also doesn't find
watching the
> show that enjoyable, on how amazing it is that there are so many
POTA fans who
> had their first exposure to it through the TV show and love the
show better than
> anything else POTA. They know the movies are better, or at least
the
> original, but it was the show that captivated them as kids.
Amazing. I think it's
> just largely nostalgia for a childhood lost. We all have that
because of the
> sheltered childhoods we enjoy, and to a large degree it's not
POTA, it just
> happens to be POTA. That's what came along at a certain time and
a certain age.
> For a huge part of the population it was either STAR TREK or STAR
WARS, for
> us it was POTA. For the kids of today it's LOTR. Whatever.
>
> -- Rory

Truth:

I went to my first Pota experience with a "friend." She had chosen
to see the first one with a mutual "boyfriend", so I wasn't feeling
especially honored. It was Beneath, and I didn't like it at all. I
thought it was ugly. But, I LOVED the idea. (I was very
political.) I loved the Apes. Then I went to Escape. (Could it
have been the same night? I don't remember, but I think maybe.) I
loved that movie! Probably it was a combination of the ape-o-nauts,
Roddy, the makeups, the save, and the ending -- but I loved it. As
far as I remember it was years before I saw Planet. I saw Conquest
and Beneath only "recently."

I didn't see the show until last year. It isn't POTA to me, but
it's fun to watch because it has Apes and it has Roddy. But, yes,
to all that Rory said earlier. TV doesn't interest me much, anyway,
though, so who am I to say?

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/25/04 4:46:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
>
>
> > I know I am going to lose popularity (could I BE any less
popular?;)
> > for saying this but I struggle to stay awake through most
episodes.
> >
>
> I was going to add that the show is boring but I thought that
would be cruel.
>
> It's a typical 20th Century-Fox Sci-Fi TV show of the era. It's
no worse or
> better than the Irwin Allen dreck that is "Lost in Space," "Land
of the
> Giants" and the others. Most of you probably aren't all that
familiar with another
> Fox show from a few years earlier that shot a lot at the Century
Ranch,
> "Daniel Boone." Well, a lot of the POTA TV show plays
like "Daniel Boone" with
> monkeys.
>
> I've talked about this with Joe Russo, who also doesn't find
watching the
> show that enjoyable, on how amazing it is that there are so many
POTA fans who
> had their first exposure to it through the TV show and love the
show better than
> anything else POTA. They know the movies are better, or at least
the
> original, but it was the show that captivated them as kids.
Amazing. I think it's
> just largely nostalgia for a childhood lost. We all have that
because of the
> sheltered childhoods we enjoy, and to a large degree it's not
POTA, it just
> happens to be POTA. That's what came along at a certain time and
a certain age.
> For a huge part of the population it was either STAR TREK or STAR
WARS, for
> us it was POTA. For the kids of today it's LOTR. Whatever.
>
> -- Rory

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

>
> Rory,
>
> Surely you at least showed some joy as a child when you saw the TV
> Show?
>
> I think the pilot was extraordinarily good - is there any one
> episode you really liked?
>
> Michael

No, I was disappointed from the very first episode. My standards
were just as high then as they are now. Don't get me started, Miguel.

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 12/25/04 4:46:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
> >
> >
> > > I know I am going to lose popularity (could I BE any less
> popular?;)
> > > for saying this but I struggle to stay awake through most
> episodes.
> > >
> >
> > I was going to add that the show is boring but I thought that
> would be cruel.
> >
> > It's a typical 20th Century-Fox Sci-Fi TV show of the era. It's
> no worse or
> > better than the Irwin Allen dreck that is "Lost in Space," "Land
> of the
> > Giants" and the others. Most of you probably aren't all that
> familiar with another
> > Fox show from a few years earlier that shot a lot at the Century
> Ranch,
> > "Daniel Boone." Well, a lot of the POTA TV show plays
> like "Daniel Boone" with
> > monkeys.
> >
> > I've talked about this with Joe Russo, who also doesn't find
> watching the
> > show that enjoyable, on how amazing it is that there are so many
> POTA fans who
> > had their first exposure to it through the TV show and love the
> show better than
> > anything else POTA. They know the movies are better, or at least
> the
> > original, but it was the show that captivated them as kids.
> Amazing. I think it's
> > just largely nostalgia for a childhood lost. We all have that
> because of the
> > sheltered childhoods we enjoy, and to a large degree it's not
> POTA, it just
> > happens to be POTA. That's what came along at a certain time and
> a certain age.
> > For a huge part of the population it was either STAR TREK or STAR
> WARS, for
> > us it was POTA. For the kids of today it's LOTR. Whatever.
> >
> > -- Rory

.html.html In a message dated 12/25/04 5:26:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

It was Beneath, and I didn't like it at all.  I
thought it was ugly.  But, I LOVED the idea.  (I was very
political.)  I loved the Apes.  Then I went to Escape.

Hated BENEATH myself, cried at ESCAPE.  That movie redeemed the whole thing.  PLANET stands alone though, neither the sequels, the two TV shows, The Simpsons, or the putridness know as POTA 2001 has destroyed it.  Praise the Lawgiver for that!

-- Rory<.html <.html

Start away Rory!

I do get the sense that you could have had more of a childhood
though, my friend!

Miguel

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Rory" <Haristas@a...> wrote:
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty"
<Michael.Whitty@d...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Rory,
> >
> > Surely you at least showed some joy as a child when you saw the
TV
> > Show?
> >
> > I think the pilot was extraordinarily good - is there any one
> > episode you really liked?
> >
> > Michael
>
>
> No, I was disappointed from the very first episode. My standards
> were just as high then as they are now. Don't get me started,
Miguel.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 12/25/04 4:46:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I know I am going to lose popularity (could I BE any less
> > popular?;)
> > > > for saying this but I struggle to stay awake through most
> > episodes.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I was going to add that the show is boring but I thought that
> > would be cruel.
> > >
> > > It's a typical 20th Century-Fox Sci-Fi TV show of the era.
It's
> > no worse or
> > > better than the Irwin Allen dreck that is "Lost in
Space," "Land
> > of the
> > > Giants" and the others. Most of you probably aren't all that
> > familiar with another
> > > Fox show from a few years earlier that shot a lot at the
Century
> > Ranch,
> > > "Daniel Boone." Well, a lot of the POTA TV show plays
> > like "Daniel Boone" with
> > > monkeys.
> > >
> > > I've talked about this with Joe Russo, who also doesn't find
> > watching the
> > > show that enjoyable, on how amazing it is that there are so
many
> > POTA fans who
> > > had their first exposure to it through the TV show and love
the
> > show better than
> > > anything else POTA. They know the movies are better, or at
least
> > the
> > > original, but it was the show that captivated them as kids.
> > Amazing. I think it's
> > > just largely nostalgia for a childhood lost. We all have that
> > because of the
> > > sheltered childhoods we enjoy, and to a large degree it's not
> > POTA, it just
> > > happens to be POTA. That's what came along at a certain time
and
> > a certain age.
> > > For a huge part of the population it was either STAR TREK or
STAR
> > WARS, for
> > > us it was POTA. For the kids of today it's LOTR. Whatever.
> > >
> > > -- Rory

Did everyone get a Twilight Zone figure with their sideshow toys?
It was a big surprise to open the package and find an extra toy. A
couple Sideshow keychains also came with the dolls and a Sideshow
catalog. The catalog is actually pretty impressive. I kept the
keychains and the catalog but sent the Gremlin home with my Mom.

--Helen

OK. For Christmas I received three Sideshow POTA toys. Original
Zaius, Zira, and Cornelius. Zaius was about what I expected,
although the face (I thought ) was better than the prototype. Less
smiley. Cornelius was sort of disappointing. He seems very angry --
not the Cornelius from the first movie at all. Zira was the best.
The likeness is amazing and she seems very well done. They are all
still in the box, but I will likely take them out and "play" with
them as time goes on.

--Helen

T - are you getting a Zira?

Michael

> ----------
> From: ape_mom[SMTP:SAND_HILL_SCHOOL@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 9:51:16 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Sideshow toys...
> Auto forwarded by a Rule

OK. For Christmas I received three Sideshow POTA toys. Original Zaius,
Zira, and Cornelius. Zaius was about what I expected, although the face
(I thought ) was better than the prototype. Less smiley. Cornelius was
sort of disappointing. He seems very angry -- not the Cornelius from
the first movie at all. Zira was the best. The likeness is amazing and
she seems very well done. They are all still in the box, but I will
likely take them out and "play" with them as time goes on.

--Helen

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: ape_mom

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 2:24 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The Show that Suckethed

Truth:

I went to my first Pota experience with a "friend."  She had chosen
to see the first one with a mutual "boyfriend", so I wasn't feeling
especially honored.  It was Beneath, and I didn't like it at all.  I
thought it was ugly.  But, I LOVED the idea.  (I was very
political.)  I loved the Apes.  Then I went to Escape.  (Could it
have been the same night?  I don't remember, but I think maybe.)  I
loved that movie!  Probably it was a combination of the ape-o-nauts,
Roddy, the makeups, the save, and the ending -- but I loved it.  As
far as I remember it was years before I saw Planet.  I saw Conquest
and Beneath only "recently."

I didn't see the show until last year.  It isn't POTA to me, but
it's fun to watch because it has Apes and it has Roddy.  But, yes,
to all that Rory said earlier.  TV doesn't interest me much, anyway,
though, so who am I to say?

--Helen




--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/25/04 4:46:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
>
>
> > I know I am going to lose popularity (could I BE any less
popular?;)
> > for saying this but I struggle to stay awake through most
episodes. 
> >
>
> I was going to add that the show is boring but I thought that
would be cruel.
>
> It's a typical 20th Century-Fox Sci-Fi TV show of the era.  It's
no worse or
> better than the Irwin Allen dreck that is "Lost in Space," "Land
of the
> Giants" and the others.  Most of you probably aren't all that
familiar with another
> Fox show from a few years earlier that shot a lot at the Century
Ranch,
> "Daniel Boone."  Well, a lot of the POTA TV show plays
like "Daniel Boone" with
> monkeys.
>
> I've talked about this with Joe Russo, who also doesn't find
watching the
> show that enjoyable, on how amazing it is that there are so many
POTA fans who
> had their first exposure to it through the TV show and love the
show better than
> anything else POTA.  They know the movies are better, or at least
the
> original, but it was the show that captivated them as kids. 
Amazing.  I think it's
> just largely nostalgia for a childhood lost.  We all have that
because of the
> sheltered childhoods we enjoy, and to a large degree it's not
POTA, it just
> happens to be POTA.  That's what came along at a certain time and
a certain age. 
> For a huge part of the population it was either STAR TREK or STAR
WARS, for
> us it was POTA.  For the kids of today it's LOTR.  Whatever.
>
> -- Rory

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/25/04 5:45:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I do get the sense that you could have had more of a childhood
though, my friend!

Miguel

Butthole!  I was fifteen when the POTA TV show was on, my childhood was nearly over.  I had a great childhood, I was into a lot better 60's TV than you got in the 70's, I'll tell you that!

-- Rory<.html <.html

Ha ha ha ha! You remembered!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Pssst! Helen has NEVER been able to stay awake during "Star
Wars". Not once. Unclean! Unclean! - - - Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ape_mom
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2004 2:24 PM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The Show that Suckethed
>
>
>
> Truth:
>
> I went to my first Pota experience with a "friend." She had
chosen
> to see the first one with a mutual "boyfriend", so I wasn't
feeling
> especially honored. It was Beneath, and I didn't like it at
all. I
> thought it was ugly. But, I LOVED the idea. (I was very
> political.) I loved the Apes. Then I went to Escape. (Could
it
> have been the same night? I don't remember, but I think
maybe.) I
> loved that movie! Probably it was a combination of the ape-o-
nauts,
> Roddy, the makeups, the save, and the ending -- but I loved it.
As
> far as I remember it was years before I saw Planet. I saw
Conquest
> and Beneath only "recently."
>
> I didn't see the show until last year. It isn't POTA to me, but
> it's fun to watch because it has Apes and it has Roddy. But,
yes,
> to all that Rory said earlier. TV doesn't interest me much,
anyway,
> though, so who am I to say?
>
> --Helen
>
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 12/25/04 4:46:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
> >
> >
> > > I know I am going to lose popularity (could I BE any less
> popular?;)
> > > for saying this but I struggle to stay awake through most
> episodes.
> > >
> >
> > I was going to add that the show is boring but I thought that
> would be cruel.
> >
> > It's a typical 20th Century-Fox Sci-Fi TV show of the era.
It's
> no worse or
> > better than the Irwin Allen dreck that is "Lost in
Space," "Land
> of the
> > Giants" and the others. Most of you probably aren't all that
> familiar with another
> > Fox show from a few years earlier that shot a lot at the
Century
> Ranch,
> > "Daniel Boone." Well, a lot of the POTA TV show plays
> like "Daniel Boone" with
> > monkeys.
> >
> > I've talked about this with Joe Russo, who also doesn't find
> watching the
> > show that enjoyable, on how amazing it is that there are so
many
> POTA fans who
> > had their first exposure to it through the TV show and love
the
> show better than
> > anything else POTA. They know the movies are better, or at
least
> the
> > original, but it was the show that captivated them as kids.
> Amazing. I think it's
> > just largely nostalgia for a childhood lost. We all have that
> because of the
> > sheltered childhoods we enjoy, and to a large degree it's not
> POTA, it just
> > happens to be POTA. That's what came along at a certain time
and
> a certain age.
> > For a huge part of the population it was either STAR TREK or
STAR
> WARS, for
> > us it was POTA. For the kids of today it's LOTR. Whatever.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of Service.

OK then if you were 15, I can surely see how you might have wanted
more a better approach.

I was closer to 11 and I was so thankful for anything POTA. The
market was not saturated in Canberra - it was actually very rare
that I found anything much at all so that might explain why I
neglected to concern myself about the strength of plots and scripts
etc.

I'm glad you had a childhood Rory. POTA was one of the very
few "childish" pleasures I allowed myself - and it was really
quite "adult" in many ways don't you think?

Butthole

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/25/04 5:45:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
>
>
> > I do get the sense that you could have had more of a childhood
> > though, my friend!
> >
> > Miguel
> >
>
> Butthole! I was fifteen when the POTA TV show was on, my
childhood was
> nearly over. I had a great childhood, I was into a lot better
60's TV than you got
> in the 70's, I'll tell you that!
>
> -- Rory

Oh, Helen would LOVE the Ewoks! ;)

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>
wrote:

>
> Ha ha ha ha! You remembered!
>

Um... Are they the teddy bear thingies?




--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

>
> Oh, Helen would LOVE the Ewoks! ;)
>
> Michael
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Ha ha ha ha! You remembered!
> >

Wow, they threw in a whole 12'' Twilight Zone fig with your set? Along
with the other extras, seems like there's plus side from ordering
directly from Sideshow!

About Cornelius- he does look sorta angry in the prototype shots too
though it's an interesting look. He's the one I'm most keen to buy
overall- I just hope he doesn't sell out, ala Zaius and Talyor. Here's
hoping that Sideshow makes some Escape Ape-O-Nauts too.

PS- Merry Christmas, everyone!

Mike

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...> wrote:
>
> Did everyone get a Twilight Zone figure with their sideshow toys?
> It was a big surprise to open the package and find an extra toy. A
> couple Sideshow keychains also came with the dolls and a Sideshow
> catalog. The catalog is actually pretty impressive. I kept the
> keychains and the catalog but sent the Gremlin home with my Mom.
>
> --Helen

Yup. Cool huh? They said it was their season's greetings or
something like that.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Mike" <doctahoot@y...> wrote:
>
> Wow, they threw in a whole 12'' Twilight Zone fig with your set?
Along
> with the other extras, seems like there's plus side from ordering
> directly from Sideshow!
>
> About Cornelius- he does look sorta angry in the prototype shots
too
> though it's an interesting look. He's the one I'm most keen to buy
> overall- I just hope he doesn't sell out, ala Zaius and Talyor.
Here's
> hoping that Sideshow makes some Escape Ape-O-Nauts too.
>
> PS- Merry Christmas, everyone!
>
> Mike
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>
wrote:
> >
> > Did everyone get a Twilight Zone figure with their sideshow
toys?
> > It was a big surprise to open the package and find an extra
toy. A
> > couple Sideshow keychains also came with the dolls and a
Sideshow
> > catalog. The catalog is actually pretty impressive. I kept the
> > keychains and the catalog but sent the Gremlin home with my
Mom.
> >
> > --Helen

(First of all, I was born in the late 70's so I never actually saw
alot of the Apes TV series until later.)

The series does seem to follow the same formula as alot of show of
it's time (aside from the Apes bit), and it seemed like the reason
behind creating is was to appease the need for more Apes. That's the
part where I can see the appeal, because it's like some off-shoot
story from the movies where people can see more ape life.

Overall for me it was the movies, as far as being an Apes fan goes.

Mike


PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/25/04 4:46:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
>
>
> > I know I am going to lose popularity (could I BE any less popular?;)
> > for saying this but I struggle to stay awake through most episodes.
> >
>
> I was going to add that the show is boring but I thought that would

be cruel.

>
> It's a typical 20th Century-Fox Sci-Fi TV show of the era. It's no

worse or

> better than the Irwin Allen dreck that is "Lost in Space," "Land of the
> Giants" and the others. Most of you probably aren't all that

familiar with another

> Fox show from a few years earlier that shot a lot at the Century Ranch,
> "Daniel Boone." Well, a lot of the POTA TV show plays like "Daniel

Boone" with

> monkeys.
>
> I've talked about this with Joe Russo, who also doesn't find

watching the

> show that enjoyable, on how amazing it is that there are so many

POTA fans who

> had their first exposure to it through the TV show and love the show

better than

> anything else POTA. They know the movies are better, or at least the
> original, but it was the show that captivated them as kids.

Amazing. I think it's

> just largely nostalgia for a childhood lost. We all have that

because of the

> sheltered childhoods we enjoy, and to a large degree it's not POTA,

it just

> happens to be POTA. That's what came along at a certain time and a

certain age.

> For a huge part of the population it was either STAR TREK or STAR

WARS, for

> us it was POTA. For the kids of today it's LOTR. Whatever.
>
> -- Rory

Planet's the best alright. And it's funny seeing how 20th Century Fox
could create a sequel after Beneath (or even a sequel after Planet for
that matter).

I really gotta say that Battle just felt like a low-grade TV movie,
especially some of the Waltons-ish moments between some of the ape
characters. I dunno, something about the way they were shot and directed.

Mike

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/25/04 5:26:21 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
>
> > It was Beneath, and I didn't like it at all. I
> > thought it was ugly. But, I LOVED the idea. (I was very
> > political.) I loved the Apes. Then I went to Escape.
>
> Hated BENEATH myself, cried at ESCAPE. That movie redeemed the
whole thing.
> PLANET stands alone though, neither the sequels, the two TV shows, The
> Simpsons, or the putridness know as POTA 2001 has destroyed it.
Praise the Lawgiver
> for that!
>
> -- Rory

.html.html In a message dated 12/25/2004 6:36:57 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I actually think any attempt at resurrecting the TV Show with the
same formula that got it canned after 14 episodes of some of the
sloppiest POTA work ever (scripts, makeup, actors - you NAME it!)
would be a horrible mistake.

I don't know about that... I think it could work as a resurrected series, at least in comic form... Some of the TV comic stories they did in the UK Annuals were actually pretty good, artistically and storywise... The potential "is" there, it just maybe needs a different execution... As far as where you said the scripts were poor, not entirely true... To me, 7 of the episodes were excellent, or at least very good... Thats not saying the others didnt have their moments, but some, like "The Interrogation" start off right, then get stupid... As far as the acting, that was more because of who they cast, not the script itself... I can see where people say Sondra Locke's perfomance is terrible, but then her bad acting is made up for by the excellent work of Percy Rodrigues as Aboro... As far as the bad make-ups, that is more of a budgetary thing, plus they had to grind them out to keep everything on the weekly TV series shooting schedule... (Plus, to save money, did you know that they reused appliances? An appliance used on a principal actor would be used on a background Ape the next day...) Anyway, I think it could still have some potential at least in the comic/graphic novel form.

<.html <.html

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/WPOTA chapter 16.gif
Uploaded by : mike_oz2002 <Michael.Whitty@...>
Description : Chapters 13, 14, 15 & 16

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%20of%20the%20Apes/WPOTA%20chapter%2016.gif

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

mike_oz2002 <Michael.Whitty@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/Chapter16.gif
Uploaded by : mike_oz2002 <Michael.Whitty@...>
Description : Chapters 13, 14, 15 & 16.

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%20of%20the%20Apes/Chapter16.gif

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,

mike_oz2002 <Michael.Whitty@...>

Oops - I uploaded Chapter 16 by itself!

I have now uploaded chapter 13, 14, 15 & 16.

Enjoy - and don't forget FEEDBACK! ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com[SMTP:POTADG@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 5:56:54 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] New file uploaded to PotaDG
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/Chapter16.gif
Uploaded by : mike_oz2002 <Michael.Whitty@...>
Description : Chapters 13, 14, 15 & 16.

.html.html In a message dated 12/25/2004 3:49:27 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Are you in agreeance with Rory about the shortcomings of the TV Show?

Not entirely, but on a few of the things he said, yes... I do and don't agree with a lot of what was said here:

In a message dated 12/25/2004 6:36:20 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Just about everything was wrong with the TV Show.  It was set on the wrong coast:

I don't see where which coast it was set on would have anything to do with whether or not the stories themselves were any good... True, it's not the setting of PLANET/BENEATH but then again, I can't say for sure that CONQUEST and BATTLE were on the east coat either...

  the humans talked:

I think that was a liberty they almost had to take if the show was to have any longevity... While the original PLANET with it's mute savages IS the best of any of it, I can't see where an actual TV series would work in that setting for anything longer than a few episodes... They couldn't have the Apes surprised by a talking astronaut every week... That would probably get as "old" as "the fugitives on the run" plotline if not done right... (Plus, the TV series is set in an earlier time, so the Humans have not devolved as far at that point...)

    the apes acted like ignorant boobs, Urko was

a dummy, Galen                                    was fey, the astronauts were boring:

The Apes didn't all act ignorant... I can see where you'd say that if you're comparing them to the Apes in the original PLANET, but the movies had their share of ignorant Apes too... Aldo was no prize, he sure wasn't the Ape he should have been...

As far as Urko, yes, there were a few episodes where he was "dumb", but they made up for those... He is pretty smart in "The Trap" and "The Legacy"... In "The Cure" he isn't dumb either... For every "dumb" example, I'm sure theres one where he is smart...

Galen, I'd have to agree with you... While he has his moments, you're right: He is too "larky" for the most part... I know that's why Roddy liked him, because he was a "character", but that may be his shortcoming... I would have rather seen him acting more like a Cornelius type, studying these "different" Humans, and how his people (the Apes) came to be in control... As far as the astronauts, they are what they are, but neither is Taylor... But I'd guess they wanted to have "heroes" rather than a misanthrope, even though the misanthrope is better...

,   the whole "fugitives on the run" formula was trite, the writing

was mediocre, direction was unimaginative,

True... The show should have shown more of the Apes and their culture, rather than having astronauts as the main plot line... It should have been more of the Apes culture/society and the astronauts having to deal with being in the foreign land should have been secondary...

The writing wasn't all bad, but they probably should have hired on a story editor to lay down how the series should go, and gotten more sci-fi based writers on board...

they didn't get Jerry Goldsmith to do the opening credits

Lalo's theme was good I think... Maybe they thought Goldsmith would have been too costly, or maybe he had other commitments at the time?

the gorillas didn't have their fur collars, Colman's Zaius hair style looked awful, the chin appliances often didn't properly fit the actors wearing them so that when they talked the mouth just stayed opened and didn't move, the apes were often shot from bad angles or with poor lighting that made the makeup look absurd

While a lot of this is true, you can't lay all that on the TV series... It started in ESCAPE and kept getting worse as each sequel was made... There are no fur collars in CONQUEST, and BATTLE's make-ups are the worse... The TV Zaius doesn't look bad, but if you want to say about his hair style looking bad, look first at the Orangs in the later sequels, thats where that all started... Same with the bad make-ups... Bad make-ups had been in the films, and they hit their low-point in BATTLE...

the show looked cheap

I'd say that was because of budgetary restraints more than anything else...

it wasn't the original movie.

NOTHING that came after PLANET is PLANET... As you say, PLANET is the stand alone piece, I agree with that 100%... That doesn't mean I don't like the sequels or TV series, but none of it could ever be PLANET...

<.html<.html

Wow. Was Rory promised a role on the T.V. series that he never got?
Hehehe. I guess because I was so young and I got to stay up with my
Dad to watch it, I have fond memories of the T.V. series. That being
said. Yes, most all of Rory's points are valid. The T.V. series is
great nostalgia but its not the classic that holds up by today's
standards the way the original does. I wouldn't want people who knew
nothing of the Planet of the Apes series to be exposed to the T.V.
series first. That's why I've been using the new comics from this
site to show some of my friends at the local comic book store that
the idea of intelligent Apes hunting humans as animals has comic
potential that still has not been tapped properly.... till now.

.html.html In a message dated 12/25/04 9:41:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

Yup.  Cool huh?  They said it was their season's greetings or
something like that. 

I think what it is is that they got a warehouse of crap they need to get rid of.

Oh, by the way Helen, if you don't want it you can send that TZ figure to me.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/26/04 11:51:04 AM Eastern Standard Time, brindlepit2002@... writes:

i'm kind of ashamed to ask, but when did the pota tv show orginally air?
i ask becasue i remember seeing the daniel boone show that rory mentioned; this makes me wonder if i ever saw the apes tv show back then.
also, don pedro colley was in an episode of the daniel boone show.
rob/ron

Don Pedro Colley was a semi-regular on "Daniel Boone" (1964-70).

"Planet of the Apes" was only on from Sept. 1974 to Dec. '74.

"Daniel Boone" is cool to look at because so much of it was shot at the Fox Ranch in Malibu.  You'll see the field where the cornfield was, the rock pool, and all these other spots.

I recently saw a new episode of "Star Trek: Enterprise" where they filmed at the rock pool, and that recent Nick Cage "Windtalkers" movie has a scene filmed there.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/26/2004 10:51:04 AM Central Standard Time, brindlepit2002@... writes:

i'm kind of ashamed to ask, but when did the pota tv show orginally air?

It aired from September of 1974- December of ' 74...

<.html <.html

.html Yes, I was surprised to see the baby Lawgiver, it's great. Mine is coming out of the box when I have time, he is going into a curio cabinet in my livingroom. I ordered Cornelius and Zira from Sideshow along with the marauding gorilla. I assume Zira and Cornelius should be arriving anytime since someone just said they received theirs. Elaine<.html

.html <.html

.html Oh my, Cougar and I agree on something. I too would like to see the tv show continue in comics and graphic novels. Elaine<.html

.html I too would have liked the tv show to explore ape culture more, we only get hints of it. Elaine<.html

.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/26/04 3:34:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

When the TV show first came on, I was so thrilled to be watching a show with apes in it. At the time several sitcoms were popular and I didn't care for them. Being a Roddy McDowell fan, it was great to see him every week even though the series was short lived. Elaine

Elaine,

All Roddy fans should know that it is McDowall, not McDowell.

THANK YOU!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html

As I watched POTA for about the 500th time (never gets old), I was looking at Ape city and thought; what if that wavy, distorted design is done that way to remind them of what was left of Human Cities after the Atomic War? Since none of the apes that are prevalent over the world are cliff or cavern dwellers, but arboreal creatures, this is a fair explanation. Obviously mankind hasn't left the best image in the Apes minds (having been their persecutors, then nearly destroying the world), so this could be yet another Orangutan inspired warning to their peoples.

 

 

Imagine there's no countries,It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for And no religon too.
Imagine all the people, Living life in peace...

John Lennon - Imagine

<.html

Or maybe the wise old Orangutans were inspired by Gaudi's architecture? :)

Mike

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Mithril1960@a... wrote:
> As I watched POTA for about the 500th time (never gets old), I was
looking
> at Ape city and thought; what if that wavy, distorted design is done
that way
> to remind them of what was left of Human Cities after the Atomic
War? Since
> none of the apes that are prevalent over the world are cliff or cavern
> dwellers, but arboreal creatures, this is a fair explanation.
Obviously mankind
> hasn't left the best image in the Apes minds (having been their
persecutors, then
> nearly destroying the world), so this could be yet another
Orangutan inspired
> warning to their peoples.

Thank you, Rory. Now I will *all*ways remember McDow*all*! Glad
you brought it up ;)

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/26/04 3:34:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> taebokitti@a... writes:
>
>
> > When the TV show first came on, I was so thrilled to be watching
a show
> > with apes in it. At the time several sitcoms were popular and I
didn't care for
> > them. Being a Roddy McDowell fan, it was great to see him every
week even
> > though the series was short lived. Elaine
> >
>
> Elaine,
>
> All Roddy fans should know that it is McDowall, not McDowell.
>
> THANK YOU!
>
> -- Rory

Thanks John.

There's a copy of BTB and the Aged Galen DVD en route to you - please
let me know when you get it.

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: John[SMTP:DRZAIUSDAVIS@...]
> Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 11:20:26 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The Show that Suckethed
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Wow. Was Rory promised a role on the T.V. series that he never got?
Hehehe. I guess because I was so young and I got to stay up with my
Dad to watch it, I have fond memories of the T.V. series. That being
said. Yes, most all of Rory's points are valid. The T.V. series is
great nostalgia but its not the classic that holds up by today's
standards the way the original does. I wouldn't want people who knew
nothing of the Planet of the Apes series to be exposed to the T.V.
series first. That's why I've been using the new comics from this
site to show some of my friends at the local comic book store that
the idea of intelligent Apes hunting humans as animals has comic
potential that still has not been tapped properly.... till now.