Yeah it was better than Swiss Family Robinson and The Waltons (and
Little House on the Prairie, I think?) coz it had APES!! ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: taebokitti@...[SMTP:TAEBOKITTI@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:33:25 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: The Show that Suckethed
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

When the TV show first came on, I was so thrilled to be watching a show
with
apes in it. At the time several sitcoms were popular and I didn't care
for
them. Being a Roddy McDowell fan, it was great to see him every week
even
though the series was short lived. Elaine

What - with the same old formula? Really?

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: taebokitti@...[SMTP:TAEBOKITTI@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:45:26 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] The TV series...
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Oh my, Cougar and I agree on something. I too would like to see the tv
show
continue in comics and graphic novels. Elaine

.html.html In a message dated 12/26/2004 5:43:16 PM Central Standard Time, Mithril1960@... writes:

I was looking at Ape city and thought; what if that wavy, distorted design is done that way to remind them of what was left of Human Cities after the Atomic War?

I'd really doubt that... After all, they don't even want the masses to know that Man once dominated them (and the Earth), so why would they remind them of one of "the terrible secrets" when they don't even want the fact known to begin with?<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/26/2004 9:59:11 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

What - with the same old formula?  Really?

For me, not "all the same formula", but you'd almost have to do a few like that... I'm not even saying that all the stories would have to center on Galen and the Astronauts... You could do some stories that are just based on the setting(s) of the TV series world, and maybe feature the regular Apes in them... There is that story in the ' 77 UK Annual (but the title slips my mind) that deals exclusively with the Apes: Urko, Councilor Zaius, and an up and coming Gorilla Commander. The young Gorilla attempt a coup against Urko, but is defeated by Urko...  Stories like that would be great to see... Just dealing with the Apes and their culture...

<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/26/04 10:58:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Yeah it was better than Swiss Family Robinson and The Waltons (and
Little House on the Prairie, I think?) coz it had APES!!  ;)

Michael

The "Swiss Family Robinson" show, which only lasted for 24 episodes in 1975-76, was another of those Irwin Allen productions from Fox (the last show Allen produced).  It starred Martin Milner and Helen Hunt, and just as "Lost in Space" featured Bernard Herrmann music in its first season from the Fox films "The Day the Earth Stood Still" and "Journey to the Center of the Earth," this show used music from Goldsmith's score to "Planet of the Apes."

I remember it quite well.

-- Rory<.html <.html

Yes, I too would like to see Ape Culture explored.

They did a certain amount of that, and I liked it/found it interesting.

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: taebokitti@...[SMTP:TAEBOKITTI@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 7:50:06 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: The Show that Suckethed
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

I too would have liked the tv show to explore ape culture more, we only
get
hints of it. Elaine

.html.html In a message dated 12/26/2004 11:10:27 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Yes, I too would like to see Ape Culture explored.

They did a certain amount of that, and I liked it/found it interesting.

That's something that could have been explored in the TV series had they opted to concentrate more on Apes, rather than Astronauts... But now, with the comic form, it can be explored that way...

<.html <.html

It could have been the original intention before they decided to cover
up the "big secret".

Michael

> ----------
> From: mlccougar@...[SMTP:MLCCOUGAR@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 3:04:16 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] A Thought about Ape City
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 12/26/2004 5:43:16 PM Central Standard Time,
Mithril1960@... writes:

I was looking at Ape city and thought; what if that wavy, distorted
design
is done that way to remind them of what was left of Human Cities after
the
Atomic War?

I'd really doubt that... After all, they don't even want the masses to
know
that Man once dominated them (and the Earth), so why would they remind
them
of one of "the terrible secrets" when they don't even want the fact
known to
begin with?

Yeah, I love that story, but it is superior to the TV Show stories IMHO
and written completely differently - know what I mean?

The TN Show was all about running, chasing, getting caught, escaping,
being rescued...the really interesting stuff was mainly incidental.

I say all this with all due respect - please don't anybody get offended
OK?

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: mlccougar@...[SMTP:MLCCOUGAR@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 3:14:22 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] The TV series...
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 12/26/2004 9:59:11 PM Central Standard Time,
whitty@... writes:



What - with the same old formula? Really?



For me, not "all the same formula", but you'd almost have to do a few
like
that... I'm not even saying that all the stories would have to center on
Galen and the Astronauts... You could do some stories that are just
based on
the setting(s) of the TV series world, and maybe feature the regular
Apes in
them... There is that story in the ' 77 UK Annual (but the title slips
my
mind) that deals exclusively with the Apes: Urko, Councilor Zaius, and
an up
and coming Gorilla Commander. The young Gorilla attempt a coup against
Urko,
but is defeated by Urko... Stories like that would be great to see...
Just
dealing with the Apes and their culture...

That's where I know Helen Hunt from! ;)

It was from around the same era right?

Was C.H.I.P.S on then (another "classic!!! ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Haristas@...[SMTP:HARISTAS@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 3:33:26 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The Show that Suckethed
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 12/26/04 10:58:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
whitty@... writes:




Yeah it was better than Swiss Family Robinson and The Waltons (and
Little House on the Prairie, I think?) coz it had APES!! ;)

Michael




The "Swiss Family Robinson" show, which only lasted for 24 episodes in
1975-76, was another of those Irwin Allen productions from Fox (the last
show Allen produced). It starred Martin Milner and Helen Hunt, and just
as
"Lost in Space" featured Bernard Herrmann music in its first season from
the
Fox films "The Day the Earth Stood Still" and "Journey to the Center of
the
Earth," this show used music from Goldsmith's score to "Planet of the
Apes."

I remember it quite well.

-- Rory

.html.html In a message dated 12/26/2004 11:13:37 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

It could have been the original intention before they decided to cover
up the "big secret".

No... The type of buildings they chose to build are their culture's architectural design, not anything having to do with "reminding"...

<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/26/2004 11:16:50 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Yeah, I love that story, but it is superior to the TV Show stories IMHO
and written completely differently - know what I mean?

Yes, I know what you mean... And it's this type of story we could get more of if done right... It's what a Planet of the Apes TV series could have been, instead of, as Rory calls it "Planet of the Humans with some Apes in it..."

The TN Show was all about running, chasing, getting caught, escaping,
being rescued...the really interesting stuff was mainly incidental.

True enough, that was what a lot of them are/were... But, then there were a few that didn't follow those lines, "The Deception" and "The Tyrant" are good examples of not fitting that catagory... I'm sure had the show been allowed to stay on the air, it would have found more storylines... <.html <.html

Well Cougar I can't say too much about where I am going with the comics
but the current story is going to bring out some things people might
think NEVER would have happened in the TV Show.

When I look at TV shows I want to watch these days, they all have
extremely complicated and interesting/difficult characters. The stories
are well thought out and there are twists (no, not like "Ape Lincoln" on
POTA2001, I mean REAL twists like LIBERTY at the end of Planet/Zira and
Cornelius and a baby getting killed in Escape, people getting off on
Murder charges then you find out they did it).

There are threads going through that whet the appetite and hook you.

Not just two white Anglo Saxon males who are super duper nice guys (who
rip off their shirts on cue) and their goody two shoes ape buddy.

There must have been more to these three, and I will be exploring that.
No more boring predictable crap.

And they are going to start doing some sensible things.

Put yourself in their place - they are thousands of years in our future
and they want to go home.

WHERE DO YOU START?

Certainly not running from city to city - you would have a plan!

Anyway, you'll see - and hopefully you'll like.

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: mlccougar@...[SMTP:MLCCOUGAR@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 4:13:01 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Ape Culture
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 12/26/2004 11:10:27 PM Central Standard Time,
whitty@... writes:



Yes, I too would like to see Ape Culture explored.

They did a certain amount of that, and I liked it/found it interesting.



That's something that could have been explored in the TV series had they
opted to concentrate more on Apes, rather than Astronauts... But now,
with
the comic form, it can be explored that way...

It's an interesting point though - they do look kinda blasted into the
landscape!

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: mlccougar@...[SMTP:MLCCOUGAR@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 4:20:00 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] A Thought about Ape City
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 12/26/2004 11:13:37 PM Central Standard Time,
whitty@... writes:



It could have been the original intention before they decided to cover
up the "big secret".



No... The type of buildings they chose to build are their culture's
architectural design, not anything having to do with "reminding"...

-Yeah i got one too! I thought it was a mistake and
wrote them but they didn't answer. I thought the
keychains were the "gift"....Huh.

Tim

-- ape_mom <sand_hill_school@...> wrote:

>
> Did everyone get a Twilight Zone figure with their
> sideshow toys?
> It was a big surprise to open the package and find
> an extra toy. A
> couple Sideshow keychains also came with the dolls
> and a Sideshow
> catalog. The catalog is actually pretty impressive.
> I kept the
> keychains and the catalog but sent the Gremlin home
> with my Mom.
>
> --Helen
>
>
>
>
>
>

True Cougar, there were some well written shows.

However there could have been more!

Am I right that not one script writer did two episodes?

Michael

> ----------
> From: mlccougar@...[SMTP:MLCCOUGAR@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 4:26:58 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] The TV series...
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 12/26/2004 11:16:50 PM Central Standard Time,
whitty@... writes:

Yeah, I love that story, but it is superior to the TV Show stories IMHO
and written completely differently - know what I mean?

Yes, I know what you mean... And it's this type of story we could get
more
of if done right... It's what a Planet of the Apes TV series could have
been, instead of, as Rory calls it "Planet of the Humans with some Apes
in
it..."

The TN Show was all about running, chasing, getting caught, escaping,
being rescued...the really interesting stuff was mainly incidental.

True enough, that was what a lot of them are/were... But, then there
were a
few that didn't follow those lines, "The Deception" and "The Tyrant" are
good examples of not fitting that catagory... I'm sure had the show been
allowed to stay on the air, it would have found more storylines...

.html.html In a message dated 12/26/2004 11:32:04 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Am I right that not one script writer did two episodes?

That's incorrect... Right off hand, I know that "Escape from Tomorrow" and "The Gladiators" were written by Art Wallace...

<.html <.html

OK - I must have been thinking that there were a LOT of DIFFERENT
writers - would that be true then?

I think Greg P and Hunter would be the experts here!

Michael

> ----------
> From: mlccougar@...[SMTP:MLCCOUGAR@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 4:38:42 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] The TV series...
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 12/26/2004 11:32:04 PM Central Standard Time,
whitty@... writes:

Am I right that not one script writer did two episodes?

That's incorrect... Right off hand, I know that "Escape from Tomorrow"
and
"The Gladiators" were written by Art Wallace...

Hey thanks Terry - always wonderful to see new comics!

Can you tell us about who did what?

Is that Damon Threet's art?

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Hoknes[SMTP:TERRYHOKNES@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 9:13:17 AM
> To: apecouncil@yahoogroups.com; apechronicles@yahoogroups.com;
> PotaDG@yahoogroups.com; pota@yahoogroups.com;
> friends_and_fugitives@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] MERRY CHRISTMAS to all APES fans worldwide -
> special NEW ORIGINAL COMIC STRIP: PLANET OF THE APES - THE TRUTH
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

As a special Xmas gift to all of you the team at Ape Projects / Ape
Chronicles
have put together the beginnings of a new POTA comic strip.

We present to you this new story called
PLANET OF THE APES - THE TRUTH
you can read it and see it at

www.hoknes.com/apetruth.htm <http://www.hoknes.com/apetruth.htm>

Let us hear your comments good and bad

Wishing you a great Christmas from
the team of
Terry, Dan, James, Glen

the great artwork is by Dan Vernaet, long time ape fan !!

> Hey thanks Terry - always wonderful to see new comics!
>
> Can you tell us about who did what?
>
> Is that Damon Threet's art?
>
> Michael
>

It looks very similar to a comic test page Damon did for us.

Neil, do you have a link to that page?

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: Hoknes[SMTP:TERRYHOKNES@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 5:45:20 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] MERRY CHRISTMAS to all APES fans worldwide -
> special NEW ORIGINAL COMIC STRIP: PLANET OF THE APES - THE TRUTH
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

the great artwork is by Dan Vernaet, long time ape fan !!

> Hey thanks Terry - always wonderful to see new comics!
>
> Can you tell us about who did what?
>
> Is that Damon Threet's art?
>
> Michael

.html.html In a message dated 12/26/2004 11:41:17 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

OK - I must have been thinking that there were a LOT of DIFFERENT
writers - would that be true then?

There were a couple authors that wrote more than one episode...In addition to Art Wallace, there was Edward J. Lakso who wrote two, "The Trap" and "The Cure"... and Robert W. Lenski who wrote "The Good Seeds" and "Tomorrow's Tide."

<.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 12/24/2004 4:55:37 P.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

The article mentions that, although dogs, cats, mice, rabbits,
goats, pigs, and horses have all been cloned, "the race is on... to
clone a monkey." 

 

I have a lock of Kim's hair.  Now, if you'll just help me raise the funds

we'll be well on our way!

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/24/2004 8:36:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Didn't he also know Maurice Evans?  I'd like to ask him questions about him.  I also saw an episode of BONANZA a few months ago that had both Booth Colman and James Gregory in it.  I think Gregory killed Colman, or something like that.  Small town that Hollyrock.

 

I'm still waiting for the Kim Hunter episode, "The Price Of Salt"

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/24/2004 9:01:38 P.M. Central Standard Time, sotis_matthew@... writes:

I only recently returned to working on the ship. Originally, I used the 6" vacuform
ship, and have been remastering the shots using a copy of the 12"
prototype. All I need is time.....

 

Wow!  It looks really good for a miniature shot.

If we can't get story info how about an equipment list?

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/25/2004 12:59:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

She holds contempt for them, I'm sure even for Julius...

You can tell my her voice when he clubs Taylor to get her

notebook back, and when she snaps at him when he tries

to quote the rule to her.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/25/2004 6:20:53 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

what in particular "sucked" about the TV Show?

 

The acting!  Let's face it.  There are two schools

of Ape Acting.  The Hunter School and the

McDowall School.  That should be the McDowall

School of Over Acting. You can trace the arch

from Cornelius to Caesar to Galen.  I think by

the series the ammonia  fumes in the latex were

getting to Roddy.  I prefer Miss Hunter's more

subtle touch.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/25/2004 6:33:48 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

That's precisely as I saw it - like the "shortage of oil" our
politicians warn us of - so they can double the price!

 

At the moment there is no Shortage of Oil, as you might think

of it.  There's only a shortage of refining capacity.  Remember

waiting in line for gas on odd and even days in the 70's?  Well,

It's 30 years of consumption later and I can still manage to fill

the tank!  And it may be another 30 years before there is any

real Shortage of Oil.  The Oil Companies need to build refineries!

 

<.html

.html

Wow!  I forgot about all that other stuff.

Yeah and the writing was weak as well.

 

Just about everything was wrong with the TV Show.  It was set on the wrong coast, the humans talked, the apes acted like ignorant boobs, Urko was a dummy, Galen was fey, the astronauts were boring, the whole "fugitives on the run" formula was trite, the writing was mediocre, direction was unimaginative, they didn't get Jerry Goldsmith to do the opening credits, the gorillas didn't have their fur collars, Coleman's Zaius hair style looked awful, the chin appliances often didn't properly fit the actors wearing them so that when they talked the mouth just stayed opened and didn't move, the apes were often shot from bad angles or with poor lighting that made the makeup look absurd, the humans clothes looked silly, Galen acted like a twit too often, the show looked cheap, it wasn't the original movie.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/25/2004 10:32:40 A.M. Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  And Rory secretly LOVED every minute of it, the big lug! At least take the TV show out of your DVD player when you write things like that.

 

Yeah, so did I!  That doesn't mean I didn't hate it at the same time!

Just because you love something that doesn't mean you're completely

blind to it's faults.  I can name a dozen things like that.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/25/2004 4:26:22 P.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

It was Beneath, and I didn't like it at all.  I thought it was ugly.  

 

I saw Conquest and Beneath only "recently."

 

These statements are contradictory.

Do you mean you saw Battle only recently?

 

<.html

I totally agree T.

I love my kids - but boy do I dislike them at times!

Like at 9:47pm when the twins are still awake and screaming out to us!
Better go strangle - I mean comfort them! ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: LordTZer0@...[SMTP:LORDTZER0@...]
> Sent: Monday, December 27, 2004 8:09:48 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: The Show that Suckethed
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

In a message dated 12/25/2004 10:32:40 A.M. Central Standard Time,
veetus@... writes:

And Rory secretly LOVED every minute of it, the big lug! At least take
the
TV show out of your DVD player when you write things like that.


Yeah, so did I! That doesn't mean I didn't hate it at the same time!
Just because you love something that doesn't mean you're completely
blind to it's faults. I can name a dozen things like that.

Yeah - it's just a tool for the politicians to control us and
explain price hikes.

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/25/2004 6:33:48 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> whitty@c... writes:
>
>
> That's precisely as I saw it - like the "shortage of oil" our
> politicians warn us of - so they can double the price!
>
>
>
> At the moment there is no Shortage of Oil, as you might think
> of it. There's only a shortage of refining capacity. Remember
> waiting in line for gas on odd and even days in the 70's? Well,
> It's 30 years of consumption later and I can still manage to fill
> the tank! And it may be another 30 years before there is any
> real Shortage of Oil. The Oil Companies need to build refineries!

You missed it. That was last month!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
>
> I'm still waiting for the Kim Hunter episode, "The Price Of Salt"

Yeah, thanks LT. That's what I meant. I'd better start
proofreading my werk! Thanks for picking up on that. It shows that
someone was paying attention!

I didn't see Conquest and Battle until I got the box set for my VCR.

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> In a message dated 12/25/2004 4:26:22 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> It was Beneath, and I didn't like it at all. I thought it was
ugly.
>
>
> I saw Conquest and Beneath only "recently."
>
>
>
>
> These statements are contradictory.
> Do you mean you saw Battle only recently?

Sheesh, Michael! Maybe you shouldn't put them to bed so early! ;)

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I totally agree T.
>
> I love my kids - but boy do I dislike them at times!
>
> Like at 9:47pm when the twins are still awake and screaming out to
us!
> Better go strangle - I mean comfort them! ;)
>
> Michael
>

The little buggers had a big sleep from 2pm - 5pm and that always means
their 7pm bed-time gets stretched....but boy they put one on tonight!

Then Natasha got up with a sore throat. Yup - you guessed it - woke up
the babies.

Sleep - what's that? ;)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: ape_mom[SMTP:SAND_HILL_SCHOOL@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 12:06:51 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The Show that Suckethed
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Sheesh, Michael! Maybe you shouldn't put them to bed so early! ;)

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I totally agree T.
>
> I love my kids - but boy do I dislike them at times!
>
> Like at 9:47pm when the twins are still awake and screaming out to
us!
> Better go strangle - I mean comfort them! ;)
>
> Michael

Try this: Turn on the television in the den and load Star Wars on
the VCR. You'll all be out before you know it!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> The little buggers had a big sleep from 2pm - 5pm and that always
means
> their 7pm bed-time gets stretched....but boy they put one on
tonight!
>
> Then Natasha got up with a sore throat. Yup - you guessed it -
woke up
> the babies.
>
> Sleep - what's that? ;)
>
> Michael
> >

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 12:18:31 AM Eastern Standard Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:

I'd really doubt that... After all, they don't even want the masses to know
that Man once dominated them (and the Earth), so why would they remind them of
one of "the terrible secrets" when they don't even want the fact known to
begin with?

As a sub conscious reminder not to repeat the mistakes of the past. Apes certainly didn't mind making guns - one of the few things I found interesting in Burton's apes was their primitiveness compared to the orignal. Swords and such, not even bows and arrows? Imagine Ursus army crossing dimensions. For all their savagery, Burton's apes wouldn't have lasted two minutes. And while the Orangutans did conceal man's superiority to their civilization, they certainly didn't down play his evil side, as portrayed in the Sacred Scrolls. Man as Devil for the apes religion perhaps?

 

 

Imagine there's no countries,It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for And no religon too.
Imagine all the people, Living life in peace...

John Lennon - Imagine

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 3:55:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:

No... The type of buildings they chose to build are their culture's
architectural design, not anything having to do with "reminding"...

How do you know? Where's the proof? Why lopsided buildings? Gorillas aren't climbing apes like Chimps or Orangutans so that's likely why the city isn't more arboreal. So why couldn't it be a subtle reminder of the dangers of unchecked technology?

 

 

Imagine there's no countries,It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for And no religon too.
Imagine all the people, Living life in peace...

John Lennon - Imagine

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 3:55:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:

WHERE DO YOU START?

Well, that's why I wrote the fanfic, Finale. To tie things up. It isn't a happy ending, but not everything ends happily.

 

 

Imagine there's no countries,It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for And no religon too.
Imagine all the people, Living life in peace...

John Lennon - Imagine

<.html

.html.html Hey, with all this knocking of the TV that's been going on, how come we haven't heard from Kassiopia defending it.  Has Kassio left the group?

She's got a very good site devoted to the TV show you know.

-- Rory<.html<.html

*** It's been ages since I saw "DR. DOOLITTLE" (the original, that
is, and not the Eddie Murphy re-imagining), but one nice thing about
it is that the late great Bobby Darin loved the songs so much that he
cut an album of himself singing those very songs. His swingin'
version of "TALK TO THE ANIMALS" can be found on an album
called: "BOBBY DARIN: SWINGIN' THE STANDARDS", and it's terrific. I
ordered the actual album of Darin doing all the Doolittle songs, but
then Amazon.com canceled the order -- the bastidges! -- because
somehow the item had been not-in-stock or something.

I got a feeling that Doolittle -- like Neil Diamond's "JAZZ SINGER"
movie -- did poorly at the box office, yet the soundtrack albums did
boffo.

Patrick

--------------------------------------------------------------------

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Show some respect! Fox was so eager to do "Doctor Dolittle" they
did POTA to keep Jacobs happy. If it wasn't for "Dr. D" there might
not be a POTA movie. - - - Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Haristas@a...
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 24, 2004 10:19 AM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: [Aping Human Society -- Talking Doll
>
>
> In a message dated 12/24/04 12:55:13 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jspy@w... writes:
>
>
>
> I've thought about this before, too. But back in the late
60's, how many talking animal toys were there?
>
>
> That crap from DOCTOR DOLITTLE and those "Banana Splits" things,
not to mention "Mr. Ed" -- Oh, I just mentioned him!
>
> -- Rory

Here's a link to her TV show site:
http://planetoftheapestv.150m.com/

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> Hey, with all this knocking of the TV that's been going on, how
come we
> haven't heard from Kassiopia defending it. Has Kassio left the
group?
>
> She's got a very good site devoted to the TV show you know.
>
> -- Rory

.html.html In a message dated 12/27/04 10:30:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** It's been ages since I saw "DR. DOOLITTLE"

I have the DVD.  I can watch it anytime.  I like the cinematography.  The 4.0 Dolby Digital stereo surround is nice too.  Jeff Krueger adores the movie too!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/27/04 10:30:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** It's been ages since I saw "DR. DOOLITTLE" (the original, that
is, and not the Eddie Murphy re-imagining), but one nice thing about
it is that the late great Bobby Darin loved the songs so much that he
cut an album of himself singing those very songs. His swingin'
version of "TALK TO THE ANIMALS" can be found on an album
called: "BOBBY DARIN: SWINGIN' THE STANDARDS", and it's terrific. I
ordered the actual album of Darin doing all the Doolittle songs, but
then Amazon.com canceled the order -- the bastidges! -- because
somehow the item had been not-in-stock or something.

It's on eBay, Patricia!

http://search.ebay.com/Bobby-Darin-Doctor-Dolittle_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQfromZR8

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/27/2004 8:29:24 AM Central Standard Time, Mithril1960@... writes:

How do you know? Where's the proof? Why lopsided buildings? Gorillas aren't climbing apes like Chimps or Orangutans so that's likely why the city isn't more arboreal. So why couldn't it be a subtle reminder of the dangers of unchecked technology?

I know because I know... There is no proof other than KNOWING that they just based that city's look on the Troglodyte city that Creber seen in that book he looked at... He designed it to have an "other wordly" look to it, NOT to have a subliminal message...

Leave all this hidden meaning stuff to Greene... He holds the rights to it...<.html <.html

.html.html Oh no!  Those eBay auctions are only for the original LP.  D'OH!!!!

Sorry, Patricia....

-- Rory<.html<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/24/2004 6:38:35 PM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> > Think about it: the Apes in 3955 are facing a FAMINE... yet, IF

they aren't strictly vegetarian, and ARE willing to eat animal flesh,
then why wouldn't they eat HUMAN flesh?

>
> I really don't believe they are facing famine... At least the house

of Zira and Cornelius looks to be well stocked with food goods, and
if they are "facing famine," would Zira been so carefree about baking
a cake? No, she wouldn't... She'd be rationing all the ingredients,
including the chocolate...

>
> Face it, the "famine" is Ursus' "excuse" to annihilate the Humans

and expand the Apes territory, all while building up his own power
base... His imperialistic ambitions are the motive, not any food
shortage...
===================================================================

*** I gotta disagree.

Ursus' "excuse" isn't just the famine -- it's the "incident" (or,
should I say "incidents") involving 11 of his 12 scouts who have
recently "... VANISHED into thin air!" And that 12th one returned
with "incredible stories of... huge walls of fire... strange, violent
earthquakes... his MIND gone... shattered, no doubt, by some UN-
SIMIAN TORTURE."

When Ursus talks to the Citizen's Council, he doesn't mention the
suspected torture, but he DOES refer to it in a roundabout
fashion: "We NOW HAVE EVIDENCE that that vast, barren area is
INHABITED... by what or by whom we DON'T know... but they live. And,
if they do... then they must EAT."

In other words, the unknown INHABITANTS of the Forbidden Zone must
have a FOOD SUPPLY, which Ursus wants to expropriate.

Ursus goes on to mention that their OWN lands -- their croplands --
had been "ravaged by the humans": he isn't making this up. This has
to be a known aspect of their current situation. If he WERE making
this up, all it would take is for some ape farmer to say, "Uh, excuse
me, General... but, ahem, I'm a farmer, and... and, well, you've
obviously been misinformed about the state of our croplands. I
farm 'em, so I should know," etc.

We already KNOW that the Apes' crops are being "ravaged by the
humans" because Zaius mentions this in "PLANET" in the first scene
he's in: "Man is a nuisance! He eats up his food supplies in the
forest, and then migrates to OUR GREEN BELTS and RAVAGES OUR CROPS.
The sooner he is exterminated, the better! It's a question of SIMIAN
SURVIVAL." And Zaius says this well before there's any "incident"
involving Ursus' 12 scouts.

Zaius isn't making any of this up, either. Our first awareness of the
native humans is in the scene where they are EATING APE CROPS, in
that cornfield, and the fruit from that tree the astronauts see 'em
in. The HUMANS didn't plant that corn, did they?! Of COURSE not! This
is APE farmland, and these humans -- having eaten up THEIR OWN food
in "the forest" -- have migrated over to this place, out of
desperation. They KNOW they're in a dangerous place: that's why, when
they hear that Ape-hunting horn, they bolt like startled deer. The
humans Taylor, Dodge, and Landon see are there because THEY'RE
HUNGRY. They're STARVING, and starvation has made them desperate
enough to risk encroaching on the croplands cultivated by the feared
Apes.

If Ursus had been making up all this supposed crap about a famine-
that-really-isn't-there, then why does he say to Zaius IN A PRIVATE
CONVERSATION "What is more dangerous than famine, Doctor?"?

What makes Ursus the 'villain' of the piece is NOT that he's
inventing a non-existent famine, but that his SOLUTION to the problem
of Famine and Overpopulation is INVASION OF THE FORBIDDEN ZONE, to
take by force the food supplies of the unknown inhabitants dwelling
in that supposedly lifeless wasteland, rather than a solution that is
more sensible.

The extended dialogue of the Steambath scene has this exchange (taken
from Avallone's novelization):

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Hoknes <terryhoknes@s...> wrote:

> Some info I am forwarding from Kasey's msn group
>
> I was re-reading a book today that I read a couple of years before

I started to like the Planet of the Apes. It is one of my favorite
books, but I didn't realize that it had so many PotA TV series
references in it.

> For instance we have a Dr. Al Virdon. Thought it might be a

coincidence at first, but then as I read further I found a Pete
Burke. Thought that this was slightly interesting.

> If you wanna check out the book it is called The Last Guardian by

Shane Johnson. Very good book.

>
> It was published in 2000, but the man who wrote it started writing

with his friend in 1975.

*** Shane Johnson also paid homage to POTA (TV) in his book "MR.
SCOTT'S GUIDE TO THE ENTERPRISE". I posted about this a few months
back in Mez's "FRIENDS & FUGITIVES" Yahoo group.

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/24/2004 6:38:35 PM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> > Ursus' speech is "bile" to her -- and she thinks that all

gorillas are vicious, now, because they've been breast-fed on that
bile -- RAISED on that pro-military, pro-armed-agression "party
platform" -- rather than being raised on "the milk of chimpanzees...
the milk of KINDNESS."

>
> She also says that Gorillas "are cruel because they're stupid, all

bone and no brain." and in ESCAPE, she calls them "militaristic
nincompoops." Those opinions aren't just formed overnight because of
a warhawk's speech and the audiences approval... She thinks they "are
all that way, because they are raised that way"... She holds
contempt for them, I'm sure even for Julius... (Because face it,
Julius is just there to do the physical work. He can clean up after
her specimens, but he'd never be smart enough to research them,
that's how I'm guessing she'd feel towards him...)

*** She holds gorillas in contempt in "BENEATH" and "ESCAPE", sure,
but NOT in "PLANET". The first scene we see of Zira and Julius
together -- just before Zaius shows up -- has them being very
cordial.

Zira: "WELLLL, how's our patient today?"

Julius: "No change. The minute he sees you, he goes into his 'act'."

When Taylor tries to speak -- unsuccessfully, due to the throat
wound -- Zira exclaims, "He keeps trying to form words!"

Julius dismisses this, saying, "You know what they say: Human See,
Human Do."

If Zira -- at THIS stage in her views on gorillas -- holds them all
in contempt, then you'd expect her to "take him down a notch", using
her title of DOCTOR Zira as a club to beat him with. SHE'S the expert
on animal psychology, not HIM. If she thought that Julius was "all
bone and little brain", and if she found him contemptible, she'd
treat him like a peon -- barely 'better' than the beasts in the cages
he cleans up after.

It is AFTER the whole revelation of the TALKING HUMAN, and the
whirlwind of trouble this all causes her, that Ursus has the
opportunity to send out scouts into the Zone -- to look for OTHER
talking humans, like Bright Eyes and the one Zaius had lobotomized.
And Ursus, having had his scouts all wind up missing -- except for
that last one, who he thinks was tortured by non-apes -- only THEN
has the opportunity to declare Martial Law and seize control.

Zira's a PACIFIST, as she later tells Hasslein. Her antipathies are
reserved for gorillas as WARMONGERS. But the gorillas in "PLANET" are
NOT warmongers -- not yet. They BECOME warmongers in-between the
first two movies. By the time Brent sees the Citizens' Council
meeting, the gorilla contingent has already been whipped up into a
militaristic frenzy: they go to the meeting with their truncheons,
after all.

Perhaps Julius has also gotten into this warmongering mentality. Is
he there at Zira's lab, in "BENEATH"? I don't recall seeing him
there. After he'd been subjected to the indignity of being konked on
the head by Lucius, to facilitate Taylor's escape, I can see him
having a harsh opinion about his boss. Hell, HE has as much of a
right to a "beef" with Zira as she does with ALL gorillas, by the
time "BENEATH" starts. I can just imagine him rubbing his sore
noggin, throwing his mop or broom down at Zira's feet in disgust and
saying, "I'm THROUGH with this lousy job! I'm gonna join the Army,
and be a part of the invasion! You helped that talkin' freak-human to
escape into the Forbidden Zone... well, if I should ever see 'im,
I'll be sure and put a bullet in 'im! That'll teach him to lay a hand
on an ape! Hell, I was still sore where HE knocked me out, and you
had to go and let that brat cousin of yours hit me in the SAME PLACE!"

In "PLANET", Zira's harsh opinions seem (to me) to be mostly aimed at
the ORANGUTANS for being gullible in regards to religion -- fools who
should believe their own eyes, rather than insist that a scientific
truth is a heresy.

Until she alienates Julius, Zira treats him as a colleague. She only
snaps at him -- "Do as I say!" -- when the extraordinary situation
calls for drastic action, action that goes "against the Rules". She
has just seen 'Bright Eyes' WRITE! He wrote "MY NAME IS TAYLOR" on
her little pad of paper, and she INSISTS on taking him OUT of there.
She didn't show that paper to Julius -- she doesn't mention to him
that "Bright Eyes can WRITE! LOOK at this! HE wrote this! LOOK!" She
keeps that eye-opening bit of evidence close to her, and merely
orders her vet -- the equivalent position that "Arthur" serves
in "ESCAPE" for Drs. Lewis and Branton -- to follow her orders.

Patrick

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
PotaDG group:

Which Ape are you?

No one will know how you answered. Go
ahead and vote.

o gorilla
o chimpanzee
o orangutan


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/surveys?id=1602576

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

.html.html In a message dated 12/27/04 11:57:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

In "PLANET", Zira's harsh opinions seem (to me) to be mostly aimed at
the ORANGUTANS for being gullible in regards to religion -- fools who
should believe their own eyes, rather than insist that a scientific
truth is a heresy.

Until she alienates Julius, Zira treats him as a colleague.

I would hardly say that.  I think she treats him as an underling.  In PLANET there seems to be two classes of gorillas; the hunter/police and the menial laborers.

I read somewhere that when PLANET was in early script development at Fox they toyed with the idea of adding baboons to the mix.  Perhaps Baboons were the menials, perhaps Julius was originally a baboon in one of Michael Wilson's early drafts or treatments?

-- Rory<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/25/2004 12:59:02 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> mlccougar@a... writes:
>
> She holds contempt for them, I'm sure even for Julius...
>
>
> You can tell my [by?] her voice when he clubs Taylor to get her
> notebook back, and when she snaps at him when he tries
> to quote the rule to her.

*** She PLEADS with Julius not to hurt Taylor. He treats humans the
way he has ALWAYS treated them. Zira protests because Bright Eyes is
DIFFERENT from other humans. But Julius has just seen him make a grab
for Zira's pad of paper: "Do that AGAIN, and I'll BREAK YER ARM!"

Later, after Taylor feigns exhaustion and Zira moves too close for
her own good, Taylor lunges for her and succeeds in pilfering her pad
of paper and pencil, and Julius yells out, "I told you what you'd
get!"

As Julius says, humans -- even Bright Eyes -- are "vicious". "They're
ALL tame, until they take a chunk out of you." Zira, when Julius
beats Taylor with his billy club, has to PLEAD with him: "Julius,
please -- it doesn't MATTER--" and "Don't HURT him!"

She does NOT bark angrily at him, as she would if she -- at this time
in the film -- has a haughty, racist view of gorillas. She PLEADS
with him.

She BECOMES a racist, AFTER the gorillas become the dominant
political force in their society. She then lumps ALL gorillas into
the stereotyped role of "militaristic nincompoops", and ALL
orangutans into that of "blinkered, pseudoscientific geese".

And chimpanzees? As far as she is concerned, ALL chimpanzees are
pacifists. But she's forgetting about all the chimps who threw rocks
and fruit at Taylor after he broke out of his cage. At that time,
ONLY SHE was on his side, intervening so that the rock-throwing crowd
doesn't kill him. The other chimps were throwing as many rocks as the
other apes were.

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 12/27/04 11:57:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > In "PLANET", Zira's harsh opinions seem (to me) to be mostly

aimed at the ORANGUTANS for being gullible in regards to religion --
fools who should believe their own eyes, rather than insist that a
scientific truth is a heresy.

> >
> > Until she alienates Julius, Zira treats him as a colleague.
>
> I would hardly say that. I think she treats him as an underling.

In PLANET there seems to be two classes of gorillas; the
hunter/police and the menial laborers.

>
> I read somewhere that when PLANET was in early script development

at Fox they toyed with the idea of adding baboons to the mix.
Perhaps Baboons were the menials, perhaps Julius was originally a
baboon in one of Michael Wilson's early drafts or treatments?

>
> -- Rory

*** I'm not suggesting that Zira considers Julius her professional
equal. She doesn't think of him as "Doctor Julius", no!
By "colleague", I'm saying they both work together in the lab, doing
their respective functions. HER job is to do "comparative anatomy",
so as to facilitate the "experimental brain surgery" -- if they can
successfully do it on HUMANS, then perhaps they can "lay the
foundations" for successful brain surgery on APES, as well. Humans
are the guinea pigs in Zira's animal experimentation; Zaius is all in
favor of THIS use of them, but AGAINST her "behavioral studies".

Julius' tasks, sure, are menial ones. That doesn't mean that Zira
thinks of ALL gorillas as "cruel" and "stupid", though -- at least
not at THIS point. If she thought Julius to be cruel and stupid, then
she could well have had a chimpanzee do the job -- perhaps a student
working on his/her Master's degree. Zira has a doctorate, right? Why
have a "cruel" and "stupid" ape working under her in her lab, when
she probably has enough "pull" to get a more competent ape (a chimp)
to do it?

I just don't see her thinking of Julius as either "cruel"
or "stupid". She may disagree with his opinions ["Human See, Human
Do", etc], but she doesn't come across as overly haughty with him.
She works with him in the lab -- he's her assistant, she's in charge.
She must think him competent to do the tasks she needs him for: to
FEED the beasts, to HOSE 'EM DOWN when they start to reek, etc. I
can't see HER hosing Taylor down -- that's the sort of task Julius
would do, just as Arthur would do the various task that Dixon and
Branton ask of him.

Patrick

Lucius is Zira's nephew.
Kasey/Undomiel

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

Hell, I was still sore where HE knocked me out, and you had to go
and let that brat cousin of yours hit me in the SAME PLACE!"

Patrick

Why do we assume that Zira or Cornelius or Zaius or even (by
supposition) Milo were highly educated? Nothing says that they
weren't working with a "hit or miss" sort of mentality in jobs that
were assigned according to species, social status, etc. I'm not
claiming that this would give anyone superiority over someone else,
just that maybe none of them are as highly educated as some here
would choose to believe.


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

>
> *** I'm not suggesting that Zira considers Julius her professional
> equal. She doesn't think of him as "Doctor Julius", no!
> By "colleague", I'm saying they both work together in the lab,

doing

> their respective functions. HER job is to do "comparative

anatomy",

> so as to facilitate the "experimental brain surgery" -- if they

can

> successfully do it on HUMANS, then perhaps they can "lay the
> foundations" for successful brain surgery on APES, as well. Humans
> are the guinea pigs in Zira's animal experimentation; Zaius is all

in

> favor of THIS use of them, but AGAINST her "behavioral studies".
>
> Julius' tasks, sure, are menial ones. That doesn't mean that Zira
> thinks of ALL gorillas as "cruel" and "stupid", though -- at least
> not at THIS point. If she thought Julius to be cruel and stupid,

then

> she could well have had a chimpanzee do the job -- perhaps a

student

> working on his/her Master's degree. Zira has a doctorate, right?

Why

> have a "cruel" and "stupid" ape working under her in her lab, when
> she probably has enough "pull" to get a more competent ape (a

chimp)

> to do it?
>
> I just don't see her thinking of Julius as either "cruel"
> or "stupid". She may disagree with his opinions ["Human See, Human
> Do", etc], but she doesn't come across as overly haughty with him.
> She works with him in the lab -- he's her assistant, she's in

charge.

> She must think him competent to do the tasks she needs him for: to
> FEED the beasts, to HOSE 'EM DOWN when they start to reek, etc. I
> can't see HER hosing Taylor down -- that's the sort of task Julius
> would do, just as Arthur would do the various task that Dixon and
> Branton ask of him.
>
> Patrick

.html

In a message dated 12/25/2004 6:10:35 P.M. Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

  Pssst! Helen has NEVER been able to stay awake during "Star Wars". Not once.

 

I know someone who's that way, only with The Matrix.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/25/2004 6:29:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

Um...  Are they the teddy bear thingies?

 

The Ewok factor was a major blow to the Star Wars

series and it's been trying to recover ever since.  It

wasn't so much the idea of teddy bear warriors, but

the costumes.  It looked like they were whipped up

for a Sid & Marty Kroft television show.  You might

as well have Chaka in there.  It may have sold more

toys, but it ruined the series' credibility as a serious

Sci-Fi franchise.  They are to it what Tribbles were

to Star Trek.  They jumped the shark on that one.

 

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 11:30:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:

Just  about everything was wrong with the TV Show. 

 

You left out that the apes had dogs.

 

 

Imagine there's no countries,It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for And no religon too.
Imagine all the people, Living life in peace...

John Lennon - Imagine

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 11:30:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:

Think about it: the Apes in 3955 are facing a FAMINE... yet, IF
they aren't strictly vegetarian, and ARE willing to eat animal flesh,
then why wouldn't they eat HUMAN flesh?

Chimps aren't really vegetarians anyhow. They've been known to kill and eat Baboons.

 

 

Imagine there's no countries,It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for And no religon too.
Imagine all the people, Living life in peace...

John Lennon - Imagine

<.html

Yeah - I remember her!

I recall a very busy time when Dave Ballard came up with a kooky
idea for a "tribute" to her and the site and Neil kindly put aside
all his other commitments to immortalise her.

The result is a cute little spoof that can be found on her site:

http://planetoftheapestv.150m.com/cassy.html"

Rory, maybe you can summarise all our comments about the TV Show and
forward them to her? ;)

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> Hey, with all this knocking of the TV that's been going on, how
come we
> haven't heard from Kassiopia defending it. Has Kassio left the
group?
>
> She's got a very good site devoted to the TV show you know.
>
> -- Rory

Oh, go and find the post/forward to us!

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Hoknes <terryhoknes@s...> wrote:
> > Some info I am forwarding from Kasey's msn group
> >
> > I was re-reading a book today that I read a couple of years

before

> I started to like the Planet of the Apes. It is one of my favorite
> books, but I didn't realize that it had so many PotA TV series
> references in it.
> > For instance we have a Dr. Al Virdon. Thought it might be a
> coincidence at first, but then as I read further I found a Pete
> Burke. Thought that this was slightly interesting.
> > If you wanna check out the book it is called The Last Guardian

by

> Shane Johnson. Very good book.
> >
> > It was published in 2000, but the man who wrote it started

writing

> with his friend in 1975.
>
> *** Shane Johnson also paid homage to POTA (TV) in his book "MR.
> SCOTT'S GUIDE TO THE ENTERPRISE". I posted about this a few months
> back in Mez's "FRIENDS & FUGITIVES" Yahoo group.
>
> Patrick

Okay, now that I got that damn machine up and running Christmas
morning (there really is a Santa Claus!), i'm back into
the project trying to complete the trailer the way I wanted
it. I rushed it for a DVD screen saver originally...
As to the equipment list... all the makeups with the exception of
the principle are recasts from the oiginal series. Also, one complete
gorilla outfit with the larger Beneath boots (this costume is used
over and over for all principles. One complete background gorilla
outfit used in some of the army shots in the beginning. Recasts of
gloves, boots, glyphs and a repro jacket used in some of the newer
non-process group shots. Conquest chimp outfit with repro shoes,
etc.. Background gorilla rifle, repro gorilla pistol and machine gun,
M1 carbine, various repro weapons and knives. As I mentioned, the 2
different spaceships (6" and 12"), a few full scale spaceship
interior set pieces for closeups, location shots of Lake Powell and
New York, and a few stock shots from Beneath to set up the story.
Let's save the story info for the next go around. It's just ridiculus
in scope and I don't want to bog down the server! Being a huge fan
like the rest of you, I'd like to do it right and give you the
opportunity for ideas and feedback...
Matt

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/24/2004 9:01:38 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> sotis_matthew@y... writes:
>
> I only recently returned to working on the ship. Originally, I
used the 6"
> vacuform
> ship, and have been remastering the shots using a copy of the 12"
> prototype. All I need is time.....
>
>
>
>
> Wow! It looks really good for a miniature shot.
> If we can't get story info how about an equipment list?

.html

In a message dated 12/26/2004 5:11:57 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

All Roddy fans should know that it is McDowall, not McDowell.

Yeah, I noticed that spelling in a lot of the news blurbs back then.

 

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/27/04 12:36:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Julius' tasks, sure, are menial ones. That doesn't mean that Zira
thinks of ALL gorillas as "cruel" and "stupid",

No, no, no!  Now you're mixing your PLANET and BENEATH.

"Whether you agree or not, it is a fact that they are two separate things, made by different writers and director."

First Scroll, Sixth Verse

Rory's POTA 101<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/27/04 1:21:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

Why do we assume that Zira or Cornelius or Zaius or even (by
supposition) Milo were highly educated?

In their own culture they are.

-- Rory
<.html<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 7:00:19 A.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

You missed it.  That was last month!

 

Damnit!  I haven't seen it since the

Film Festival in Memphis.  That and

her Mission Impossible episode.  I have

the Gunsmoke epi on tape, but her

guest appearance in The Magician

has still eluded me.  But I do have

the Columbo spot on DVD.  I'll

have to be more diligent to capture

these on my VCR.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 7:06:58 A.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

I didn't see Conquest and Battle until I got the box set for my VCR.

--Helen

 

Wow!  That must have been cool.

Like new POTA movies, to you anyway.

Sorry the quality was on the decline.

Still a neat treat, and better than

POTA2K1 in many ways.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 7:11:54 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

The little buggers had a big sleep from 2pm - 5pm

 

The Big Sleep?  THE BIG SLEEP!

Don't take being out of work out on

the children!  That was a Ren & Stimpy

reference -- with a nod to Raymond Chandler.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 7:21:15 A.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

Try this:  Turn on the television in the den and load Star Wars on
the VCR.  You'll all be out before you know it!

 

I don't even have a single copy of any of the

Star Wars movies.  Ha!  I'll buy the DVD

box set for that and the LOTR when I get a

wide-screen TV with surround sound, just

to test it out.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 9:36:53 A.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I have the DVD.  I can watch it anytime.  I like the cinematography. 

 

I thought it would be on for the Christmas season. You know,

like Mary Poppins or the Aristocats.  I thought I saw it on,

but it was the Eddie Murphy version.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 12:21:07 P.M. Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

Why do we assume that Zira or Cornelius or Zaius or even (by
supposition) Milo were highly educated?  Nothing says that they
weren't working with a "hit or miss" sort of mentality in jobs that
were assigned according to species, social status, etc.  I'm not
claiming that this would give anyone superiority over someone else,
just that maybe none of them are as highly educated as some here
would choose to believe.

 

Not sure it matters.  There are plenty of highly educated people

who, if taken out of their respective fields of study, are quite

ignorant.  And there are many people who seem highly

intelligent but who's degrees are fakes and window dressing.

What is a doctorate from The Academy worth?  Many learned

people through the centuries were espousing the Bad Science

just as they had been taught.  And it wasn't until years or

even centuries later that they were proven wrong.  Einstein

himself didn't believe Black Holes could exist, but Stephen

Hawking wasn't even born at the time.  So . . .

 

<.html

I know what you mean. I hadn't ever seen the TV Series until
Michael sent me the set last year. I'm saving one disk (the last
one) to view sometime in the future. I haven't watched it yet.
Even though the series might be disappointing in some ways, I look
forward to having that last disk to watch some day...

My kids don't get it, though and are a little sore that I'm not
letting them watch it either.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/27/2004 7:06:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> I didn't see Conquest and Battle until I got the box set for my
VCR.
>
> --Helen
>
>
>
> Wow! That must have been cool.
> Like new POTA movies, to you anyway.
> Sorry the quality was on the decline.
> Still a neat treat, and better than
> POTA2K1 in many ways.

.html <.html

Good point. I believe that Armando taught him very well. Armando
knew what he was capable of. It's no doubt that he was a bright
little guy -- his parents were, and "the apple don't fall far from
the tree."


I'm sure he taught Caesar about his "birth parents" and of all the
things that his parents had shared with Armando about their
experiences. I don't think that his first glimpse at their history
was when they were walking down the street at Ape Management.

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Hoknes <terryhoknes@s...> wrote:
> how well had Caesar learned to read before Armando brought him out
into society?
> he found his name in the "name book" very easily in Breck's
office!!

.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 6:53:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, terryhoknes@... writes:

The Governor orders the guard to electrocute Caesar to death once they capture him

the guard turns it on and Caesar appears to have tons of voltage sent through his body which causes his death

but Caesar is faking right?  did Caesar's accomplice turn off the entire power of electricity or what?

if there was no power sent than the guard should have seen it didnt work?

if it didnt work could Caesar really have known to fake his own death?

was Caesar too quick to kill the guard if he had never killed before ?

how much anger is in Caesar?

McDonald cut the power.  Caesar noticed there was no power, but the operator didn't.  He was too busy watching Caesar.  Yeah, if someone had just tried to kill you, you'd be pissed too!  Orders or no orders.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 1:47:43 P.M. Central Standard Time, sotis_matthew@... writes:

As to the equipment list...

Actually Matt I was interested in what you shot, and edited it with and how you did your process shots.  I'm film student and I geek out on that stuff.

 

<.html

.html

the guard turns it on and Caesar appears to have tons of voltage sent through his body which causes his death

but Caesar is faking right?  did Caesar's accomplice turn off the entire power of electricity or what?

if there was no power sent than the guard should have seen it didnt work?

if it didnt work could Caesar really have known to fake his own death?

was Caesar too quick to kill the guard if he had never killed before ?

how much anger is in Caesar?

McDonald cut the power.  Caesar noticed there was no power, but the operator didn't.  He was too busy watching Caesar.  Yeah, if someone had just tried to kill you, you'd be pissed too!  Orders or no orders.

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> It looks very similar to a comic test page Damon did for us.
> Neil, do you have a link to that page?

-- It was moved to the DG Photos group
(http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDiscussionGroupphotos/)
files section recently when we were freeing up space.

Here's the link:
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDiscussionGroupphotos/files/
DT-Comic-Test-Page.gif

Remember though to be able to see it you have to be a member of the
Photos group.

What ever happened to Damon anyway?

Neil

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 8:10:02 P.M. Central Standard Time, terryhoknes@... writes:

do you think Caesar really noticed it and the guard didnt ?

what could Caesar know of these things?

 

Well, I don't know if he could read the meter from the table,

but if someone was cranking the juice on me, and nothing

was happening, I'd fake my death too.  I don't know that he

was friends of the Circus' electrician or anything, but he was

living in the same world as everyone else.  Then again Leno

can find people off the street who don't know how a light bulb

works.

<.html

.html

what could Caesar know of these things?

 

Well, I don't know if he could read the meter from the table,

but if someone was cranking the juice on me, and nothing

was happening, I'd fake my death too.  I don't know that he

was friends of the Circus' electrician or anything, but he was

living in the same world as everyone else.  Then again Leno

can find people off the street who don't know how a light bulb

works.

<.html

My girls like the TV Show too.

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: ape_mom[SMTP:SAND_HILL_SCHOOL@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 9:21:08 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The Show that waited...
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

I know what you mean. I hadn't ever seen the TV Series until
Michael sent me the set last year. I'm saving one disk (the last
one) to view sometime in the future. I haven't watched it yet.
Even though the series might be disappointing in some ways, I look
forward to having that last disk to watch some day...

My kids don't get it, though and are a little sore that I'm not
letting them watch it either.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/27/2004 7:06:58 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
> I didn't see Conquest and Battle until I got the box set for my
VCR.
>
> --Helen
>
>
>
> Wow! That must have been cool.
> Like new POTA movies, to you anyway.
> Sorry the quality was on the decline.
> Still a neat treat, and better than
> POTA2K1 in many ways.









<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=129d9qul9/M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/
D=gr
oups/S=1705021437:HM/EXP=1104272475/A=2128215/R=0/SIG=10se96mf6/*http://
comp
anion.yahoo.com> click here

<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=295196.4901138.6071305.3001176/D=group
s/S=
:HM/A=2128215/rand=961246572>

_____

Yahoo! Groups Links


* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/>


* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service
<






--

Attachments :

.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 9:21:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, terryhoknes@... writes:

do you think Caesar really noticed it and the guard didnt ?

 

I don't have to think it.

I can't see.  Watch the scene

again.  You don't have to be

a genius to answer these

questions for yourself.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/25/2004 4:54:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

T - are you getting a Zira?

 

She's Sassy and Smart.

What's not to get?

 

But seriously, I haven't

yet.  I ordered through

another company to get

a break on the price.  If

I don't hear something

I'll have to reorder.

 

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/27/2004 11:13:54 AM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I think she treats him (Julius) as an underling

I agree!<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/27/2004 11:35:58 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

If she thought Julius to be cruel and stupid, then she could well have had a chimpanzee do the job -- perhaps a student working on his/her Master's degree. Zira has a doctorate, right? Why have a "cruel" and "stupid" ape working under her in her lab, when she probably has enough "pull" to get a more competent ape (a chimp) to do it?

First off, it's not "her" lab... It's probably "state/government" owned... I'd say this is more than likely, just because of the conversation between Zira and Dr. Galen... He is complaining about how he's little more than a vet in that lab, and how Zira does alright when it comes to getting space and equipment... They also talk about a "quota system" and how Dr. Zaius realizes the animal psychologists experiments has value... If it's "Zira's lab" she'd have the pull and say so, but from all that is said in there, it's obvious who's the overseer: Dr. Zaius... She just barely got ahead, after all, Zaius looks down at his nose at Chimps... With that type of attitude, it's obvious she really has no pull to get who she wants in there... She's barely getting anywhere...
Anyway, I'd really doubt she'd have a Chimp student to do "Gorilla's work"... She'd be seeing them as doing research, not grunt work such as cleaning up after beasts, clubbing them to keep them in line, hosing out their cages, etc..

She works with him in the lab -- he's her assistant, she's in charge. She must think him competent to do the tasks she needs him for: to
FEED the beasts, to HOSE 'EM DOWN when they start to reek, etc. I can't see HER hosing Taylor down -- that's the sort of task Julius would do...

Where do you get that he is "her assistant"? Julius is employed by that facility to be a caretaker to the beasts, not to be Zira's assistant... If he were her assistant, he'd be taking notes, running her errands, etc. but he's not... He just does the physical labor part of animal care... And you're right Zira would never  do the tasks that Julius does... And as such, it's highly doubtful that she'd expect any Chimp to do that... She'd probably think "That kind of work is fit for Gorillas, not us intellectuals..."<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 12/27/2004 1:07:24 PM Central Standard Time, Mithril1960@... writes:

Chimps aren't really vegetarians anyhow.

They are vegetarian in the Planet of the Apes culture... They have evolved new personalities to what they are now, and that includes being vegetarians...<.html <.html

Hi Billy,

I opened up my Sideshow Zira doll last night and now I've got a
costume question...

About Zira's costume: When we did our costumes we made the tunic, a
skirt, an unexposed jersey top, and knit arm bands / floating
cuffs. In the actual costumes, how many pieces were there?

The Zira doll has a knit top attached to a skirt. I think that is
the way Hasbro did theirs, too. That knit top serves as the knit
cuffs that you see in the pictures.

If Kim Hunter, and any other female chimps, had to wear a knit top
the weight of those cuffs, in addition to neck fur and mask and
boots, etc... how uncomfortable would that be??? I'm also thinking
the tunic was made of a duck fabric -- which is a bit heavy and
stiff. Not something one would choose to wear in Sunny California
as a jacket over a woolen sweater...

You know as much about these costumes as anyone, I think. If
possible, would you please describe how these were put together?

Thanks, Billy.

--Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/25/2004 4:54:52 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> whitty@c... writes:
>
>
> T - are you getting a Zira?
>
>
>
> She's Sassy and Smart.
> What's not to get?
>

Can someone tell me what all this stuff in the box with Zira is???

They say Zira has over 30 points of articulation for full range of
motion and comes with a notepad, pen, Taylor notes, paper airplane,
Ape Scroll and a 12 inch 'Planet of the Apes' figure stand.

I see the scroll (and scroll case), the pen and notepad, Taylor
notes and figure stand. But what? Am I to fold my own airplane?
(I haven't removed that extre piece of paper yet, and it might pop
open into an airplane when I do, but I doubt it!) It would be nice
if the scroll case held the scroll. It looks like it could, but I
can't open it so I'm guessing it doesn't.

Seriously, though, Zira is very poseable. They really should make a
chimp family set (Escape) as Zira could be easily posed to hold a
baby.

Why isn't Zira sold out?! She is very well done and there just
aren't that many females in the story. (Understatement)

.html <.html

Thanks, Billy. That is exactly what I wanted.

I know it would be "too much", but I wish they would do the dollies
with costumes that were put together like the costumes actually worn
in the movies. Maybe Chris Hight's figures are more accurate in
that way.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, goapebilly@a... wrote:
> happy holidays sand hill school
> about the female costumes,ill start from feet up
> 1: the shoes of course big and bulky kinda looks like clown feet
to wear and
> walk in im sure,never had a pair i could try on i have size 11
boats and as
> you know most of the actors were small,but the feet were built on
am slip on
> sneaker .
> 2:the skirt which is a cotton material kind of heavy put i dont
tyhink so
> much heavier then a normal ankle length skirt havent worn a skirt
lately couldnt
> help you there:)
> 3:she had on a under shirt similiar to the ones under the chimp
jackets and
> gorilla vests,a ligh cotton lang sleeved shirt,like zaius jacket
hes wearing
> in his office when he talks to taylor some had patches on front
other were
> ziper front.
> 4:then the jacket which is pretty heavy also cotton
> 5: the sleeves burlap looking material is material attached to
silk like
> sleeves about a foot long that were stitched up in arm of
jacket ,so i you couldnt
> look up sleeves and see arms.
> 6: then of course neck piece,as yo usee with zira she had a piece
that was
> similiar to her arm sleeve up by neck ,so she didnt have to wear
big hairy neck
> piece like gorillas i figure they didnt think it would look very
attractive.
> i m sure it did get very hot and unbearable under the lights
at times,but
> if i remember correctly a lot outside filming wasnt done during
the heat of
> summer,isnt that how taylor got his raspy voice from being sick
running in a
> loincloth and freezing ,and had the flu when they filmed the
famous scene of him
> in net talking for first time.
> take your paws off me you damn dirty ape!
> hope this helped goapebilly

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 6:23:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:

I read somewhere that when PLANET was in early script development at Fox they
toyed with the idea of adding baboons to the mix.  Perhaps Baboons were the
menials, perhaps Julius was originally a baboon in one of Michael Wilson's
early drafts or treatments?

Well, if they were going to stay with the 'great apes' idea, they'd have to have used Gibbons. What color would designate them? In the remake scripts, at one point they wanted to have monkeys, but they aren't as intelligent as apes, so it may have been a dumb idea. Anyone think there's a chance we'll ever see a faithful adapatation of the novel as written? With CGI, it wouldn't cost that much...

 

 

Imagine there's no countries,It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for And no religon too.
Imagine all the people, Living life in peace...

John Lennon - Imagine

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 6:23:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:

And chimpanzees? As far as she is concerned, ALL chimpanzees are
pacifists. But she's forgetting about all the chimps who threw rocks
and fruit at Taylor after he broke out of his cage. At that time,
ONLY SHE was on his side, intervening so that the rock-throwing crowd
doesn't kill him. The other chimps were throwing as many rocks as the
other apes were.

But their fear of humans caused them to do this. They were also throwing fruit and not to many beings get killed by getting hit with an apple or a banana.

 

 

Imagine there's no countries,It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for And no religon too.
Imagine all the people, Living life in peace...

John Lennon - Imagine

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/28/2004 4:07:14 AM Eastern Standard Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:

The Governor orders the guard to electrocute Caesar to death once they capture him
the guard turns it on and Caesar appears to have tons of voltage sent through his body which causes his death
but Caesar is faking right? 

Yes he is.

did Caesar's accomplice turn off the entire power of electricity or what?

He turned off the juice to the cables that would have electrified Ceasar.

if there was no power sent than the guard should have seen it didnt work?

Nope, Becuase he was lazy and/or paid minimum wage.

if it didnt work could Caesar really have known to fake his own death?

Ceasar is a brilliant ape. The minute he didn't feel the electricity killing him, he faked it out so that he could get a chance to escape.

was Caesar too quick to kill the guard if he had never killed before ?

No he wasn't. He's pissed by this point. And i'll answer the next question right here; his parents who were no threat to the world, were murdered brutally. His Foster Father is murdered. His people are kept as slaves and treated for the most part, as far as we can see, with brutality. How angry would you be?

how much anger is in Caesar?

Angry enough to raise a rebellion, cause a nuclear war and bring down human civilization. If Hasslein hadn't been such a dick, none of this might have happened. But his fear (for an intelligent man he was pretty frightened) he certainly screwed things up for humanity. If it hadn't been for him, there might never have been a planet of the apes. Now, if he'd lived, do you think he'd have been against the creation of an ape slave class? I'd think - CERTAINLY!

 

 

Imagine there's no countries,It isn't hard to do.
Nothing to kill or die for And no religon too.
Imagine all the people, Living life in peace...

John Lennon - Imagine

<.html

D'oh! Yep, you're right. But, hmmm... wait a minute now... I'd bet
that Julius might very well make the mistake and confuse the
word "cousin" with the word "nephew", so --

Aw, forget it. I flubbed. Mea culpa. Leave it to one a-those pointy-
eared elvenfolk to point out a mistake made by a mere mortal man.
Shouldn't you be on a boat to Valinor, with all-a the rest of
you 'fair folk'? The Third Age ended a looooong time ago, didn't it?

I think I'm gonna go over to Dildo Bugger's hole-in-the-ground and
play some dirty scrabble... see how Frito & Spam & Moxie & Pepsi are
doin'...

;)

Patrick
----------------------------------------------------------

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Arwen Undomiel" <elfgirl_06@c...>
wrote:

>
> Lucius is Zira's nephew.
> Kasey/Undomiel
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
> <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
>
> Hell, I was still sore where HE knocked me out, and you had to go
> and let that brat cousin of yours hit me in the SAME PLACE!"
>
> Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Mithril1960@a... wrote:

>
>
> In a message dated 12/27/2004 11:30:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
>
> Think about it: the Apes in 3955 are facing a FAMINE... yet, IF

they aren't strictly vegetarian, and ARE willing to eat animal flesh,
then why wouldn't they eat HUMAN flesh?

>
> Chimps aren't really vegetarians anyhow. They've been known to kill

and eat Baboons.
----------------------------------------------------------
*** Well, ahem, I WAS talking about the evolved apes -- "the Apes in
3955" -- and NOT about real 20th Century non-evolved "primitive"
apes. Besides, real chimps also have a knack for hurling their own
feces (quite accurately, I've been told by those who've been unlucky
enough to warrant being targeted while visiting the chimp section of
the zoo)... and yet when Taylor's getting pelted by the Apes before
he regains his voice, none of the chimps participating in the rock-
and-fruit-throwing shenanigans digs into his/her ass-crack to get a
fistfull of fecal projectiles, do they?

Now THAT would've made it an altogether different scene, wouldn't it?
Instead of "GET YOUR STINKING PAWS OFF ME, YOU DAMN DIRTY APE!",
Taylor might've shouted out: "I've had ENOUGH of your shit! Leave me
alone!"

Patrick

.html

In a message dated 12/27/2004 10:49:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

They are vegetarian in the Planet of the Apes culture... They have evolved new personalities to what they are now, and that includes being vegetarians...

 

Perhaps, but the prevailing wisdom of the time suggested that all apes were vegetarians as evidenced by that line in Escape.

<.html