.html.html In a message dated 2/23/05 8:30:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

I'm usually a catalyst for
the timeline fight, actually.  I love battling it out.  I've got my
opinion, and I know I'm right. 

And just exactly what is your opinion, missy?

-- Rory<.html <.html

Helen
You are 100% right and I aplolgize if I offended you. Out of respect
for you, I am done with the issue.
Yours
John


In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...> wrote:

>
> No worries. I'm not offended by anyone. I'm usually a catalyst

for

> the timeline fight, actually. I love battling it out. I've got

my

> opinion, and I know I'm right. In fact, this very argument was
> going on when I joined the POTA group in 2000.
>
> BUT, I do get really uncomfortable when "attacks" become personal

in

> nature. Although even those kinds of messages appear by some to

be

> playful, I tend to withdraw and try to become invisible. If it

were

> not for the recent opportunity to work with the Marauders, I
> wouldn't say a thing.
>
> But, I did. So I'm hoping that I'm not offensive in my tone and
> that we can just move on without further discussion or fanfare...
> both of which will make me even more nervous.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Helen
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John" <DrZaiusDavis@a...> wrote:
> >
> > I hope I didn't upset anyone. Everything I said was truly meant

in

> > fun. As I explained in my earlier email I think everyone has a
> voice
> > in the POTA universe. If I did offend anyone, I am truly sorry.

.html.html In a message dated 2/23/05 8:38:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, JLKINSER1970@... writes:

I am done with the issue.
Yours
John

Well, I'll never be done with the issue, Yours John.

There are two timelines in the POTA movie series -- PERIOD!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:41 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: "Aldo said no".

There are two timelines in the POTA movie series -- PERIOD!

<.html

Really???

Well, sir, I've got my life jacket on and I'm ready to get pushed
off the boat, so, here goes...

Although I realize that it has been said that one ship cannot exist
in twice at the same time (which would have to happen for my theory
to work) and it has been said that (as in Ray Bradbury's dinosaur
story) one tiny oops would change everything... I believe that...

Milo, the son of Caesar (Cornelius and Zira's son), is the same Milo
that brings Cornelius and Zira back to "our time" in Escape. The
events of Conquest and Battle remain the same, but aren't as
important as we make them out to be in the overall scheme of
things. Etc...

That's it in a teeny little nutshell.

And, I know I'm right. ;)

Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 2/23/05 8:30:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
>
> > I'm usually a catalyst for
> > the timeline fight, actually. I love battling it out. I've got
my
> > opinion, and I know I'm right.
>
> And just exactly what is your opinion, missy?
>
> -- Rory

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: ape_mom [sand_hill_school@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:45 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: "Aldo said no".

Really???

Well, sir, I've got my life jacket on and I'm ready to get pushed
off the boat, so, here goes...

Although I realize that it has been said that one ship cannot exist
in twice at the same time (which would have to happen for my theory
to work) and it has been said that (as in Ray Bradbury's dinosaur
story) one tiny oops would change everything...  I believe that...

Milo, the son of Caesar (Cornelius and Zira's son), is the same Milo
that brings Cornelius and Zira back to "our time" in Escape.  The
events of Conquest and Battle remain the same, but aren't as
important as we make them out to be in the overall scheme of
things.  Etc...

That's it in a teeny little nutshell.

And, I know I'm right.  ;)

Helen


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 2/23/05 8:30:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
>
> > I'm usually a catalyst for
> > the timeline fight, actually.  I love battling it out.  I've got
my
> > opinion, and I know I'm right. 
>
> And just exactly what is your opinion, missy?
>
> -- Rory

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 2/23/05 8:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

Milo, the son of Caesar (Cornelius and Zira's son), is the same Milo
that brings Cornelius and Zira back to "our time" in Escape.

Excuse me?

Helen, why are you messing with me?  Who the heck is "Milo, the son of Caesar"?  Ain't no such ape!

-- Rory<.html <.html

It's okay. Just in case, I put a parachute on over the life
jacket. I'm ready.

Helen




--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> As absurd as Rory will say this is....it is nonetheless

intriguing! :)

>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ape_mom [sand_hill_school@y...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:45 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: "Aldo said no".
>
>
>
> Really???
>
> Well, sir, I've got my life jacket on and I'm ready to get pushed
> off the boat, so, here goes...
>
> Although I realize that it has been said that one ship cannot

exist

> in twice at the same time (which would have to happen for my

theory

> to work) and it has been said that (as in Ray Bradbury's dinosaur
> story) one tiny oops would change everything... I believe that...
>
> Milo, the son of Caesar (Cornelius and Zira's son), is the same

Milo

> that brings Cornelius and Zira back to "our time" in Escape. The
> events of Conquest and Battle remain the same, but aren't as
> important as we make them out to be in the overall scheme of
> things. Etc...
>
> That's it in a teeny little nutshell.
>
> And, I know I'm right. ;)
>
> Helen
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 2/23/05 8:30:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > sand_hill_school@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > > I'm usually a catalyst for
> > > the timeline fight, actually. I love battling it out. I've

got

> my
> > > opinion, and I know I'm right.
> >
> > And just exactly what is your opinion, missy?
> >
> > -- Rory
>
>

I LIKE THAT Helen!!!
I never thought of Caesars son Milo as being the same Milo who
brings Cornelius and Zira to "or time" earth. That is great!



In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...> wrote:

>
> Really???
>
> Well, sir, I've got my life jacket on and I'm ready to get pushed
> off the boat, so, here goes...
>
> Although I realize that it has been said that one ship cannot

exist

> in twice at the same time (which would have to happen for my

theory

> to work) and it has been said that (as in Ray Bradbury's dinosaur
> story) one tiny oops would change everything... I believe that...
>
> Milo, the son of Caesar (Cornelius and Zira's son), is the same

Milo

> that brings Cornelius and Zira back to "our time" in Escape. The
> events of Conquest and Battle remain the same, but aren't as
> important as we make them out to be in the overall scheme of
> things. Etc...
>
> That's it in a teeny little nutshell.
>
> And, I know I'm right. ;)
>
> Helen
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 2/23/05 8:30:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > sand_hill_school@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > > I'm usually a catalyst for
> > > the timeline fight, actually. I love battling it out. I've

got

> my
> > > opinion, and I know I'm right.
> >
> > And just exactly what is your opinion, missy?
> >
> > -- Rory

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: ape_mom [sand_hill_school@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:51 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: "Helen said so".

It's okay.  Just in case, I put a parachute on over the life
jacket.  I'm ready.

Helen




--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:
> As absurd as Rory will say this is....it is nonetheless
intriguing!  :)
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ape_mom [sand_hill_school@y...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:45 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: "Aldo said no".
>
>
>
> Really???
>
> Well, sir, I've got my life jacket on and I'm ready to get pushed
> off the boat, so, here goes...
>
> Although I realize that it has been said that one ship cannot
exist
> in twice at the same time (which would have to happen for my
theory
> to work) and it has been said that (as in Ray Bradbury's dinosaur
> story) one tiny oops would change everything...  I believe that...
>
> Milo, the son of Caesar (Cornelius and Zira's son), is the same
Milo
> that brings Cornelius and Zira back to "our time" in Escape.  The
> events of Conquest and Battle remain the same, but aren't as
> important as we make them out to be in the overall scheme of
> things.  Etc...
>
> That's it in a teeny little nutshell.
>
> And, I know I'm right.  ;)
>
> Helen

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: luke_the_drifter52 [JLKINSER1970@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:51 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: "Aldo said no".

I LIKE THAT Helen!!!
I never thought of Caesars son Milo as being the same Milo who
brings Cornelius and Zira to "or time" earth. That is great!



In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...> wrote:
>
> Really???

<.html

Yes there is. Only Helen and I know about him though because we have
access to scrolls kept hidden from the masters. Oh, and even kept
hidden from you.



In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 2/23/05 8:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
>
> > Milo, the son of Caesar (Cornelius and Zira's son), is the same

Milo

> > that brings Cornelius and Zira back to "our time" in Escape.
>
> Excuse me?
>
> Helen, why are you messing with me? Who the heck is "Milo, the

son of

> Caesar"? Ain't no such ape!
>
> -- Rory

.html.html In a message dated 2/23/05 8:46:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Rory

Could you throw us some of the "evidence" please?

Michael


No, but I'll throw you some of my poop!

The two timelines of the original APES film series are self-evident, and YES, I am speaking in absolutes!

Anyone who argues with me is simply something that escaped from Dr. Zaius' lobotomy lab, and definitely not intact!

-- Rory<.html <.html

Well, yeah. There is. You just haven't met him because I'm one of
the few people that know about him. Now, if you're nice, I'll
share. But if you're planning to push me off the edge, you gotta
know that I'm taking this story with me...
.....
..
..


Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 2/23/05 8:46:07 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> sand_hill_school@y... writes:
>
>
> > Milo, the son of Caesar (Cornelius and Zira's son), is the same
Milo
> > that brings Cornelius and Zira back to "our time" in Escape.
>
> Excuse me?
>
> Helen, why are you messing with me? Who the heck is "Milo, the
son of
> Caesar"? Ain't no such ape!
>
> -- Rory

sorry. :)


In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> You're just sating that to stir up Rory! ;)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: luke_the_drifter52 [JLKINSER1970@h...]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:51 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: "Aldo said no".
>
>
>
> I LIKE THAT Helen!!!
> I never thought of Caesars son Milo as being the same Milo who
> brings Cornelius and Zira to "or time" earth. That is great!
>
>
>
> In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Really???
>
>

I just saw something that I hadn't put together when I first saw the
movie. One of the victims in Rob Zombie's "House of 1000 Corpses" was
named Jerry Goldsmith. I'm sure this was a tribute as Rob is a huge
Planet of the Apes and 70's horror fan. On the new site for the
sequel "the Devil's Rejects" there is a mock page for the local
sheriff's dept. with a section for Missing Persons and Jerry
Goldsmith is listed with a picture of the character slain in the
first film. Rob also included a conversation in the film between two
of the characters discussing a local "retard" who had to go to the
hospital for sticking a Mego Planet of the Apes figure up his
ass. "...he had Dr. Zaius half way up his but and couldn't get him
out."

:))

Thanks!


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "luke_the_drifter52"
<JLKINSER1970@h...> wrote:

>
> I LIKE THAT Helen!!!
> I never thought of Caesars son Milo as being the same Milo who
> brings Cornelius and Zira to "or time" earth. That is great!
>
>
>
> In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>

wrote:

> >
> > Really???
> >
> > Well, sir, I've got my life jacket on and I'm ready to get

pushed

> > off the boat, so, here goes...
> >
> > Although I realize that it has been said that one ship cannot
> exist
> > in twice at the same time (which would have to happen for my
> theory
> > to work) and it has been said that (as in Ray Bradbury's

dinosaur

> > story) one tiny oops would change everything... I believe

that...

> >
> > Milo, the son of Caesar (Cornelius and Zira's son), is the same
> Milo
> > that brings Cornelius and Zira back to "our time" in Escape.

The

> > events of Conquest and Battle remain the same, but aren't as
> > important as we make them out to be in the overall scheme of
> > things. Etc...
> >
> > That's it in a teeny little nutshell.
> >
> > And, I know I'm right. ;)
> >
> > Helen
> >
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 2/23/05 8:30:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > sand_hill_school@y... writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I'm usually a catalyst for
> > > > the timeline fight, actually. I love battling it out. I've
> got
> > my
> > > > opinion, and I know I'm right.
> > >
> > > And just exactly what is your opinion, missy?
> > >
> > > -- Rory

Hmmm...


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "luke_the_drifter52"
<JLKINSER1970@h...> wrote:

>
> sorry. :)
>
>
> In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
> wrote:
> > You're just sating that to stir up Rory! ;)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: luke_the_drifter52 [JLKINSER1970@h...]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:51 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: "Aldo said no".
> >
> >
> >
> > I LIKE THAT Helen!!!
> > I never thought of Caesars son Milo as being the same Milo who
> > brings Cornelius and Zira to "or time" earth. That is great!
> >
> >
> >
> > In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>

wrote:

> > >
> > > Really???
> >
> >

.html.html In a message dated 2/23/05 8:55:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, JLKINSER1970@... writes:

Yes there is. Only Helen and I know about him though because we have
access to scrolls kept hidden from the masters. Oh, and even kept
hidden from you.

Caesar and Lisa never had another child after Cornelius because Caesar's visit to the radioactive city rendered him sterile.

Stick that in your sacred scroll, Yours John Monkey Boy!

-- Rory<.html <.html

I'm thinking you don't like this idea, but I'm the one with the life
jacket and the parachute, so push me off the edge, ok? Besides...

IT'S MY THEORY!!

Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 2/23/05 8:55:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> JLKINSER1970@h... writes:
>
>
> > Yes there is. Only Helen and I know about him though because we
have
> > access to scrolls kept hidden from the masters. Oh, and even
kept
> > hidden from you.
> >
>
> Caesar and Lisa never had another child after Cornelius because
Caesar's
> visit to the radioactive city rendered him sterile.
>
> Stick that in your sacred scroll, Yours John Monkey Boy!
>
> -- Rory

I think that's incredibly interesting. I'd never really thought
about it like that at all, but... what about the difference in time?
If Lisa and Caesar did have a son named Milo that some how was the
same Milo that flew Zira and Cornelius back in time... where are
Zira and Cornelius? Interesting theory though.
Kasey/Undomiel

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>
wrote:

>
> I'm thinking you don't like this idea, but I'm the one with the

life

> jacket and the parachute, so push me off the edge, ok? Besides...
>
> IT'S MY THEORY!!
>
> Helen
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 2/23/05 8:55:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > JLKINSER1970@h... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Yes there is. Only Helen and I know about him though because

we

> have
> > > access to scrolls kept hidden from the masters. Oh, and even
> kept
> > > hidden from you.
> > >
> >
> > Caesar and Lisa never had another child after Cornelius because
> Caesar's
> > visit to the radioactive city rendered him sterile.
> >
> > Stick that in your sacred scroll, Yours John Monkey Boy!
> >
> > -- Rory

Hi Kasey! You are assuming that Lisa was Caesar's only wife.
Suppose there was someone before Lisa? (I know, Patrick, but you
and I have already established we are reading different stories
anyway.) A baby born to that previous union would fit nicely in
that time frame.


Helen


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "hidalgo_girl05" <elfgirl_06@c...>
wrote:

>
> I think that's incredibly interesting. I'd never really thought
> about it like that at all, but... what about the difference in

time?

> If Lisa and Caesar did have a son named Milo that some how was the
> same Milo that flew Zira and Cornelius back in time... where are
> Zira and Cornelius? Interesting theory though.
> Kasey/Undomiel
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm thinking you don't like this idea, but I'm the one with the
> life
> > jacket and the parachute, so push me off the edge, ok?

Besides...

> >
> > IT'S MY THEORY!!
> >
> > Helen
> >
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> > > In a message dated 2/23/05 8:55:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> > > JLKINSER1970@h... writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Yes there is. Only Helen and I know about him though because
> we
> > have
> > > > access to scrolls kept hidden from the masters. Oh, and even
> > kept
> > > > hidden from you.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Caesar and Lisa never had another child after Cornelius

because

> > Caesar's
> > > visit to the radioactive city rendered him sterile.
> > >
> > > Stick that in your sacred scroll, Yours John Monkey Boy!
> > >
> > > -- Rory

.html

In a message dated 2/23/2005 9:30:50 P.M. Central Standard Time, elfgirl_06@... writes:

I think that's incredibly interesting. I'd never really thought
about it like that at all, but... what about the difference in time?
If Lisa and Caesar did have a son named Milo that some how was the
same Milo that flew Zira and Cornelius back in time... where are
Zira and Cornelius? Interesting theory though.

 

Now that's an interesting theory.  Perhaps he and Virgil

came across some old ANSA equipment in Houston

and mastered time travel.

 

 

<.html

.html In a message dated 2/23/05 5:36:01 PM Central Standard Time, JLKINSER1970@... writes:

Relax, it is just a movie.

It may be "just a movie", but it bugs me when people see/say things that aren't even there and/or make no sense at all...<.html

.html In a message dated 2/23/05 5:54:16 PM Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

I agree. You guys are starting to sound like Star Trek nerds who
analyze way to close and suck all the fun out of Sci-fi.

You may agree, but look at who started the whole thread, wasn't it JLKINSER1970 himself who started it... He says something, three people disagree with what he says, then he critiques us... He is as guilty if not more... <.html

.html In a message dated 2/23/05 6:15:33 PM Central Standard Time, JLKINSER1970@... writes:

I like the way you put it!!!

Goes against all you said too, doesn't it?!<.html

.html In a message dated 2/23/05 6:21:19 PM Central Standard Time, JLKINSER1970@... writes:

Well, it looks like Ape has killed Ape!!!

That's justifiable to their society if its done to protect their society... Capital punishment is what Ursus did there, he didn't cold bloodily murder Garvon...<.html

.html In a message dated 2/23/05 6:34:45 PM Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

Dr. Zaius is so scared of the ape population finding
the truth about man that he is willing to let Ursus break their most
sacred law! It's pretty shocking but it makes sense. I don't think
Zaius would ever be able to to it himself but he is quick to have
others sent directly to ape hell.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT is totally justifiable in the Apes society... As far back as the original PLANET, they spoke of it ("You'll hang for high treason...") And in the TV series it was brought up quite a bit ("I'll have you killed someday, as I must have poor Galen killed", etc...) Movie and TV Zaius figures were both ready to have offenders killed to preserve their society... Capital Punishment is not the same as "cold blooded murder"... Murder (unjustified killing/killing for the sake of killing, etc.) is what breaks their "Ape shall not kill Ape" law, not killing of an enemy of the state...<.html

.html In a message dated 2/23/05 6:40:52 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Did I miss any other inconsistencies or references?

Ursus was ready to have the protestors killed (maybe for breaking Martial Law?)... Either way, he seen them as enemies of the state, so it was ok in his eyes... And in the TV series, Zaius and Urko are ready to justifiably kill their "enemies"<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: mlccougar@... [mlccougar@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:07 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] wish list

In a message dated 2/23/05 6:34:45 PM Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

Dr. Zaius is so scared of the ape population finding
the truth about man that he is willing to let Ursus break their most
sacred law! It's pretty shocking but it makes sense. I don't think
Zaius would ever be able to to it himself but he is quick to have
others sent directly to ape hell.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT is totally justifiable in the Apes society... As far back as the original PLANET, they spoke of it ("You'll hang for high treason...") And in the TV series it was brought up quite a bit ("I'll have you killed someday, as I must have poor Galen killed", etc...) Movie and TV Zaius figures were both ready to have offenders killed to preserve their society... Capital Punishment is not the same as "cold blooded murder"... Murder (unjustified killing/killing for the sake of killing, etc.) is what breaks their "Ape shall not kill Ape" law, not killing of an enemy of the state...

<.html

.html In a message dated 2/23/05 7:43:36 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

There are two timelines in the POTA movie series --

I agree!<.html

.html In a message dated 2/23/05 7:46:07 PM Central Standard Time, sand_hill_school@... writes:

Milo, the son of Caesar (Cornelius and Zira's son), is the same Milo
that brings Cornelius and Zira back to "our time" in Escape.

What the **ck?! How can that even be remotely possible? <.html

.html In a message dated 2/23/05 7:46:38 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Rory

Could you throw us some of the "evidence" please?


He has, plenty of times... And, like Dodge, "He makes sense"...<.html

.html In a message dated 2/23/05 7:53:53 PM Central Standard Time, JLKINSER1970@... writes:

I LIKE THAT Helen!!!
I never thought of Caesars son Milo as being the same Milo who
brings Cornelius and Zira to "or time" earth

It's NOT possible... Caesar's son was named CORNELIUS, after his grandfather...<.html

.html In a message dated 2/23/05 7:55:25 PM Central Standard Time, JLKINSER1970@... writes:

Only Helen and I know about him though because we have
access to scrolls kept hidden from the masters

It's "secret from the masses ", not masters... The "masters" of the Apes world know all that, it's the public at large (aka "the masses") that they're keeping the secrets hidden from...<.html

.html In a message dated 2/23/05 9:30:53 PM Central Standard Time, elfgirl_06@... writes:

If Lisa and Caesar did have a son named Milo that some how was the
same Milo that flew Zira and Cornelius back in time... where are
Zira and Cornelius?

Smoking crack? Hallucinating again?<.html

.html

In a message dated 2/23/2005 10:31:36 P.M. Central Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

 

Now that's an interesting theory.  Perhaps he and Virgil

came across some old ANSA equipment in Houston

and mastered time travel.

Here's one for ya...Suppose Cornelius, had he lived, was his own Grandfather!  We only have some ships clock for proof of the date.  I know I know.  Microscopic scrutiny, Sacred Srolls . . .etc!  But when I'm not in school the only way I know what day it is, is by what's on television.  And our own calendar has been readjusted so many times . . . Who's to say?

<.html

.html Good luck, Michael. It is certainly worth a try and you never know what may happen. Peter Jackson may actually be a person who listens to fans. Elaine<.html

relax. I think we're all on the same page here. Zaius is okay with
the death of anyone who threatens to distrupt ape society as it is.

.html Maybe Lisa was pregnant at the time of Cornelius' death and didn't realize it at the time. Elaine<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> I'm glad Boulle left out the gibbons. Once you allow gibbons in,

there goes the neighborhood!

>
> -- Rory

*** In MARVEL's "TERROR ON THE POTA", a human artifact-seeker-outer
named Lightsmith has a sidekick: a gibbon named Gilbert who, alas, is
mute, but is able to write legible English.

I don't consider any of the POTA stuff to be "canon" unless it was
live-action (i.e. the 5 movies & 14 TV episodes), but I thought it
should be pointed out that there is this one gibbon character.
However, he looked pretty LARGE for a gibbon -- Ploog made him look
more like one of the chimps, I think.

Patrick

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: John [DrZaiusDavis@...]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 1:06 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: wish list

relax. I think we're all on the same page here. Zaius is okay with the death of anyone who threatens to distrupt ape society as it is.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:08 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: gibbons

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> I'm glad Boulle left out the gibbons. Once you allow gibbons in,
there goes the neighborhood!
>
> -- Rory

*** In MARVEL's "TERROR ON THE POTA", a human artifact-seeker-outer
named Lightsmith has a sidekick: a gibbon named Gilbert who, alas, is
mute, but is able to write legible English.

I don't consider any of the POTA stuff to be "canon" unless it was
live-action (i.e. the 5 movies & 14 TV episodes), but I thought it
should be pointed out that there is this one gibbon character.
However, he looked pretty LARGE for a gibbon -- Ploog made him look
more like one of the chimps, I think.

Patrick

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> What music is playing?
>
> I've got my kids hooked on the soundtrack for "Kill Bill Volume 1"

at the moment - very amusing to see them going bonkers to!

>
> Michael

*** If you ever get the chance, pick up the Al Hirt album (available,
alas, only on vinyl) called "The Horn Meets the Hornet", where
Tarantino got the Green Hornet theme track. Al Hirt did kick-ASS
versions of a bunch of TV show themesongs, including BATMAN, GET
SMART, TARZAN, KING KONG, and a bunch of shows I never had the
opportunity to watch when I was a kid, since they were never rerun
the same way STAR TREK and MISSION IMPOSSIBLE were. I've emailed the
record company (COLUMBIA, if I recall), but they don't have any plans
to release that album on CD any time soon. The bastids!

When we were little kids, we used to check out that album from the
local library, along with the HAWAII-5-O soundtrack album (also kick-
ass), and play 'em over & over & over, runnin' around all excited.
Burning off all that sugary breakfast cereal energy, I suppose! Those
were the days...

Patrick

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:14 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Hey!!! Where is everybody???

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> What music is playing?
> 
> I've got my kids hooked on the soundtrack for "Kill Bill Volume 1"
at the moment - very amusing to see them going bonkers to!
>
> Michael

*** If you ever get the chance, pick up the Al Hirt album (available,
alas, only on vinyl) called "The Horn Meets the Hornet", where
Tarantino got the Green Hornet theme track. Al Hirt did kick-ASS
versions of a bunch of TV show themesongs, including BATMAN, GET
SMART, TARZAN, KING KONG, and a bunch of shows I never had the
opportunity to watch when I was a kid, since they were never rerun
the same way STAR TREK and MISSION IMPOSSIBLE were. I've emailed the
record company (COLUMBIA, if I recall), but they don't have any plans
to release that album on CD any time soon. The bastids!

When we were little kids, we used to check out that album from the
local library, along with the HAWAII-5-O soundtrack album (also kick-
ass), and play 'em over & over & over, runnin' around all excited.
Burning off all that sugary breakfast cereal energy, I suppose! Those
were the days...

Patrick

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 2/22/05 10:34:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> JLKINSER1970@h... writes:
>
>
> > For instance, we know in Battle that Cornelius and Zira traveling

through time and escaping the earths destruction was told in the
scrolls because the Lawgiver is reading it from the scroll. We also
know Caesar is mentioned in the scrolls. I have always thought
Cornelius and Zira knew of Caesar and Aldo and the events of Battle
from the scrolls.

>
> Oh brother... here we go again...
>
> There are TWO timelines. When Zira and Cornelius went back to 1973

they changed events that would lead to the planet of the apes. The
lawgiver in BATTLE is the same Lawgiver of PLANET, but a different
Lawgiver because the history that went before him is changed from the
original timeline that led to the planet of the apes that Taylor
landed on.

>
> -- Rory

-------------------------------------------------------------
*** How can the "same" Lawgiver be "different"? If the Ape-onauts
and/or Caesar actually did "change the future" (as Caesar hoped to
do), what are the chances that there would even BE an
orangutan "lawgiver"? Besides, it was CAESAR that made the laws that
rule his treefort "Ape City" -- Caesar was "the Lawgiver" for them
all. It was HE who gave them their "most sacred law": "Ape Shall
Never Kill Ape". And, the "First Law" -- which applies only to
humans, of course -- demanding that a Human may never again say "No"
to an Ape. Caesar also "forbade" his subjects from going to the nuked
city -- as their King, his word was law.

Rory, the 'lawgiver' portrayed by John Huston in "BATTLE" can NOT be
the same 'lawgiver' whom Zaius (in "PLANET") referred to as "the
greatest Ape of all" -- for one simple reason. Huston's Lawgiver,
portrayed as an OLD ape, tells his chimp/orang/human audience the
story of Caesar in the year 2670; in "PLANET", after Taylor asks
Zaius "When were those 'Sacred Scrolls' of yours written?", Zaius
replies, "Twelve hundred years ago."

Do the math. Subtract 1,200 from either 3978 (the date Taylor sees on
the EARTH-TIME clock before his ship sinks) or 3955 (the date given
in both "BENEATH", from Brent's ship, and "ESCAPE", from the Ape-
onaut's ship), and what do you get? Either 2778 or 2755. Regardless
of which Earth year you want to place "PLANET" and "BENEATH", they
transpired 1,200 years after the writing of the Sacred Scrolls, which
had to have been 2755 at the earliest or 2778 at the latest. These
dates are 85 and 108 years AFTER the Earth year 2670, when
the "BATTLE" frame-scenes take place. A lot can happen in 85-to-108
years!

In other words, the EARLIER Lawgiver was a "nice" guy who didn't
advocate the horrific treatment of humans by apes, and he preached to
a mixed-race audience of Chimps, Orangutans, and Humans... but with
no Gorillas visible -- go ahead and check.

Then, some 85 years later (at the least), circa 2755, a DIFFERENT
orangutan -- ALSO referred to as a "lawgiver" -- comes on the scene,
where he reveals his anti-human NEW scriptures: the Sacred Scrolls.

When the NEW scripture is introduced, that human-hater is credited as
being the one who gave the Apes their law that "Ape shall not kill
Ape" -- Ursus attributes this to the orangutan Lawgiver whom Zaius
says wrote his Sacred Scrolls 1,200 years before, rather than to an
EARLIER lawgiving ape.

This is an example of "historical revisionism". When Zaius and his
ilk became "the Guardian of the Terrible Secret", they effectively
REWROTE their own history, wiping out all traces of the pre-Lawgiver
society. When Cornelius refers to "a culture that existed long before
the Sacred Scrolls were written", Honorius gets agitated: "ObJECtion!
These remarks are PROFANE and irrelevant!"

In order for Cornelius' suggestion to be "profane" -- that the Apes
even HAD a culture prior to the Lawgiver's time (1,200 B.P. "Before
Present") -- this MUST mean that it is official doctrine that the
Lawgiver INTRODUCED culture to the Apes at that time. It was dogma,
then, in the time of "PLANET" and "BENEATH" that their society dated
back ONLY 1,200 YEARS, to when their Lawgiver wrote the Scrolls.

Yet Cornelius tells the Presidential Commission that the language
he's speaking -- which he didn't know was called "English" -- had
been spoken by his ancestors "for TWO THOUSAND YEARS, roughly".
Cornelius knew of an English-speaking Ape culture that dated back to
the late 20th Century because after "PLANET" and before "BENEATH"
he, "as an archaeologist", acquired access to "history scrolls kept
hidden from the masses". He calls these "the SECRET SCROLLS". They
were KEPT secret, by Zaius, obviously. Zaius had to have cut-a-deal
with the upstart chimps -- in the screenplay, Cornelius mentions that
they had agreed to "keep the secret" about the Human civilization
from their prehistory, and that Zaius then quashed the impending
trial for heresy. Part of the deal, presumably, was that Zaius gave
both Cornelius and Zira access to those OLDER scriptures -- the
SECRET SCROLLS -- so that they could share in the secret. And, who
knows? Maybe Zaius thought that IF they were to read about how
terrible the prehistorical intelligent humans were, maybe they would
come to share his ideology and agree that their society is better
served by the cognoscenti by having the masses kept in a state of
Ignorance.

We all know what Zira thought of that! Nevertheless, she kept quiet
about it. That was part of their deal.

It is in those SECRET SCROLLS that Cornelius and Zira learned about:

1. The PET PLAGUE, which killed off all the Dogs and Cats

2. The Humans taking APES as their new pets, to replace them

3. The subsequent Enslavement of the Apes by the Humans

4. The arrival, eventually, of an ape named ALDO who was able to
speak the word "NO" -- presumably, this event happened about 500
years after the beginning of the Enslavement...

But WAIT! Cornelius had already told the Commission that Apes had
been speaking English for 2,000 years and -- dating back from 3955 --
that brings us to the LATE 20TH CENTURY, around when "ESCAPE" takes
place, when the Ape-onauts themselves arrive on the scene. Aldo can't
have spoken the first words EVER by an ape some 500 years later if
apes had been speaking English since the late 20th Century.

You know what I think. Cornelius and Zira, when they talk about Aldo
and the Ape Revolt against their enslavement, purposely use the
word "CENTURIES" when they REALLY mean "YEARS".

The Pet Plague kills off the Dogs and Cats in 1983 -- Armando says
that it was "EIGHT YEARS AGO" in 1991. Do the math.

"CONQUEST" takes place in 1991... and when Caesar blurts out "Lousy
human bastards!" at the brutal State Security officers, it is to
protest their mistreatment of an ape named ALDO. We can hear one of
the handlers yelling "No, Aldo, no!" The DVD subtitler mistakenly
hears this name as "Otto", but both the original screenplay and the
John Jakes novelization have it as "Aldo".

THIS ape -- a CHIMPANZEE -- could be the "Aldo" that Cornelius
mentions from the "Secret Scrolls", rather than the GORILLA who has
the same name in "BATTLE". For all we know, the gorilla in "BATTLE"
was named after that chimp! Or, he took that chimp's name as his own,
identifying with that ape's plight.

Nevertheless, BOTH apes -- each named "Aldo" -- exist in 1991, with
the gorilla living some 27 years later, in 2018, when "BATTLE" takes
place. Cornelius' purposeful reference to "CENTURIES" rather
than "YEARS" notwithstanding, EVERYTHING HE KNEW FROM HIS PREHISTORY
that was mentioned in the Secret Scrolls ACTUALLY HAPPENED. The only
difference is that the Secret Scrolls commemorate the "Aldo"
incident: if the "Aldo" in question is the GORILLA, then this also
suggests that that version of the History was written by someone
whose purpose was to whitewash Aldo's true role -- eradicating the
part about how he became the first Ape to kill another Ape. In other
words, there's the ORIGINAL ape history -- written by Caesar, perhaps
(his statue has him holding a scroll, and it is "his story" the
Lawgiver tells), or maybe Virgil... and then there is the version
told by the 'nice' Lawgiver in 2670 -- whether written by him or by
some long-dead ancestor, we don't know... and THEN a version came
along that made ALDO the hero, rather than the villain. And it was
THIS scroll that Cornelius and Zira read, the one which "fully
documents" how it was ALDO who said "No" to a human, etc etc. And
then, finally, in order to eradicate all scriptural evidence that
humans ever had a higher civilization... the 'mean' Lawgiver writes a
NEW scripture: the Sacred Scrolls, in 2755. All traces of pre-
Lawgiver ape civilization are hence removed from their 'bible', and
the masses are taught that civilization BEGAN at that time, 1200
years prior to "PLANET".

The Ape-onauts didn't change a damn thing. Caesar HOPED to, once he
found out that his parents witnessed the destruction of Earth in the
Future... but does that mean that he DID change it? Or that he even
COULD? It seems to me that, if anything, the Ape-onauts helped to
CAUSE their own era's situation to come about when they went Back-in-
Time to 1973. How so?

By going back, they eventually become subjected to interrogation by
Hasslein and his goons. The humans learn, then, that in the future
Apes will have a civilization -- albeit a somewhat backward one --
and Humans will be miserable animals, subjected to HUNTING and
ANATOMICAL DISSECTION. When Breck takes a firsthand interest in the
case involving Armando and his missing 'talking' chimp, he goes out
of his way to address the notion that it's US or THEM: the Ape-onauts
had to be killed in order to prevent a horrific future for Man, he
firmly believes. Man learns ONLY from the Ape-onauts' arrival and
interrogation that there WILL be a violent revolution whereby Apes
will overthrow Man's civilization.

Unless Man keeps that from happening.

The cycle of interracial/interspecies violence is exacerbated by
the "truth" that Zira seems too willing to admit to. A "few" people
can seem to get along across racial lines -- Zira says that they'd
met HUNDREDS of humans since they landed... but she trusts only THREE
of them! Caesar tells MacDonald that a "few" humans are kind... but
not the "most of them". THEY won't be kind unless and until the Apes
FORCE them to be kind, he says. As if that's possible!

It is only a "hope" -- the slimmest of all possible hopes -- that the
Future experienced by Cornelius and Zira will be changed.

But if it IS changed... then won't it unravel everything? If Taylor
DOES show up in 3955-ish, there won't BE any chance for the Ape-
onauts to time-travel back to 1973, since that happened as a direct
result of the aftereffects of the detonation of the Doomsday Bomb. If
that Bomb does NOT explode, then they can't go back in Time... and if
they DON'T go back in Time, they can't arrive in 1973... and if that
doesn't happen, there won't BE a Caesar to change anything.

We can all try to chop logic all we want, and Time Travel stories are
such that these seeming paradoxes get verrrrry intricate and hard to
entangle... but it doesn't seem at all logical to me that any 2nd
timeline can ever be brought into existence. The wars fought between
Humans and Talking Apes are further fueled by the advent of the Ape-
onauts and their interrogation information regarding the atrocities
committed against Man by the Apes. Both sides have more ammunition to
use in their rhetoric against each other.

And the animosity isn't gone, even 600 years after Caesar's death.
The hair-pulling (chimp-vs-human), followed by the pushing-away
(human-vs-chimp, in retaliation) exemplifies it.

And where are the gorillas in 2670? They ain't part of the 'nice'
Lawgiver's little group of interspecies peaceniks. Nor, for that
matter, are the "mutants". THEY have gone on to being treating the
Doomsday Bomb as a thing to be WORSHIPPED, just as it is
in "BENEATH". If Mendez had DISMANTLED the Bomb, rather than cajoled
his fellow radiation-scarred humans into venerating it, THEN it could
be inferred that the Future indeed WAS changed. As long as that Bomb
is in existence, it is the linchpin of this Cycle of Time.

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> So what did you think of "Terror" Patrick?
>
> For a while there when I first discovered APES I thought Terror was

a movie or TV SHow!

>
> Michael

*** Primarily due to Mike Ploog's artwork, I absolutely LOVED "Terror
on the POTA". The Gestalt Brainy "Inheritors" didn't bother me then,
and I liked the idea that each brain could control a bunch of
those "mush-faced mutant" drones. The author, Doug Moench, had a
good 'feel' for the POTA universe, and just because he applied his
comicbook-story imagination to it didn't mean that it was any lesser
of a story. Adventure comics have to have a certain "out there" vibe
to 'em, I think, and given that, Moench used it to great effect, not
forgetting that the Ape-vs-Man theme was really about Man's
inhumanity to Man. Brutus and his KKK-like group of terrorizers was
dreamed up simultaneously with the TV episode "THE DECEPTION", where
the Dragoons served the same purpose.

And the Lightsmith character was fantastic! His 'interpretations' of
the artifacts he's discovered from our time are hilariously
satirical. One thing that POTA didn't do much of after "BENEATH" was
Satire -- the genre Boulle's novel best fits in. And Moench put the
satire back into POTA, I think. At least in Lightsmith's Wonder Wagon.

Towards the end, though, the "Makers" and the "Gorilloids" and the
Viking Apes... well... I didn't like 'em as much as the Inheritors,
or the Psychedrome. If I could have reconciled Moench's stories to
the filmed POTA saga, I would've used 'em as part of "my" canon...
but I just couldn't manage it. As fun as they are, they just don't
really fit in well enough.

But, oh, man, that art is still to drool for! Ploog was the perfect
POTA artist, despite giving Brutus bangs in the first couple issues.

Patrick

Hi Mike,

Thanks for these links.

Brent looks psychotic and Nova looks vacant!!

Yours Truly 2005,

Kuiama. NP - Lalo Schifrin's Film Score to THX-1138.

From: "Mike" doctahoot@...

We've seen Nova already I know, but finally we can see a non-prototype
pic. Brent and Ursus are included, along with Caesar whom I'm very
excited about. Unless it's just a generic Conquest Chimp, still
excellent:

Caesar:
http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPlanetApes1
2.jpg

Brent, looking a little deranged:
http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPlanetApes7
.jpg

Ursus:
http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPlanetApes6
.jpg

Nova:
http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPlanetApes9
.jpg

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

>But, oh, man, that art is still to drool for! Ploog was the perfect

POTA artist

-- I second that! One of the main reasons I got into POTA back then
was that Mike Ploog art.
He was already one of my heroes after his work on Man-Thing. What
really upset me was that he didn't have the time to keep
doing 'Terror' and they handed it to Tom Sutton, an artist who's
style I never did like.

Neil

I think Brent is awful! I'd like to know what Jeff thinks!! Jeff:
Does he look like Brent to you?

Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, kuiama1973@a... wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> Thanks for these links.
>
> Brent looks psychotic and Nova looks vacant!!
>
> Yours Truly 2005,
>
> Kuiama. NP - Lalo Schifrin's Film Score to THX-1138.
>
> From: "Mike" doctahoot@y...
>
> We've seen Nova already I know, but finally we can see a non-
prototype
> pic. Brent and Ursus are included, along with Caesar whom I'm
very
> excited about. Unless it's just a generic Conquest Chimp, still
> excellent:
>
> Caesar:
>
http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPl
anetApes1
> 2.jpg
>
> Brent, looking a little deranged:
>
http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPl
anetApes7
> .jpg
>
> Ursus:
>
http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPl
anetApes6
> .jpg
>
> Nova:
>
http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPl
anetApes9
> .jpg

I think their Brent looks like Vincent Price. It's not MY Brent. - - -
Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Toyfair shots of Sideshow's Ursus, Nova, Brent- and
Conquest Caesar!


>
>
> I think Brent is awful! I'd like to know what Jeff thinks!! Jeff:
> Does he look like Brent to you?
>
> Helen
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, kuiama1973@a... wrote:
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > Thanks for these links.
> >
> > Brent looks psychotic and Nova looks vacant!!
> >
> > Yours Truly 2005,
> >
> > Kuiama. NP - Lalo Schifrin's Film Score to THX-1138.
> >
> > From: "Mike" doctahoot@y...
> >
> > We've seen Nova already I know, but finally we can see a non-
> prototype
> > pic. Brent and Ursus are included, along with Caesar whom I'm
> very
> > excited about. Unless it's just a generic Conquest Chimp, still
> > excellent:
> >
> > Caesar:
> >
> http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPl
> anetApes1
> > 2.jpg
> >
> > Brent, looking a little deranged:
> >
> http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPl
> anetApes7
> > .jpg
> >
> > Ursus:
> >
> http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPl
> anetApes6
> > .jpg
> >
> > Nova:
> >
> http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPl
> anetApes9
> > .jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yeah, that's what I thought, too. Very disappointing!

Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> I think their Brent looks like Vincent Price. It's not MY
Brent. - - -
> Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@y...>
> To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:06 PM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Toyfair shots of Sideshow's Ursus, Nova,
Brent- and
> Conquest Caesar!
>
>
> >
> >
> > I think Brent is awful! I'd like to know what Jeff thinks!!
Jeff:
> > Does he look like Brent to you?
> >
> > Helen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, kuiama1973@a... wrote:
> > > Hi Mike,
> > >
> > > Thanks for these links.
> > >
> > > Brent looks psychotic and Nova looks vacant!!
> > >
> > > Yours Truly 2005,
> > >
> > > Kuiama. NP - Lalo Schifrin's Film Score to THX-1138.
> > >
> > > From: "Mike" doctahoot@y...
> > >
> > > We've seen Nova already I know, but finally we can see a non-
> > prototype
> > > pic. Brent and Ursus are included, along with Caesar whom I'm
> > very
> > > excited about. Unless it's just a generic Conquest Chimp,
still
> > > excellent:
> > >
> > > Caesar:
> > >
> >
http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPl
> > anetApes1
> > > 2.jpg
> > >
> > > Brent, looking a little deranged:
> > >
> >
http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPl
> > anetApes7
> > > .jpg
> > >
> > > Ursus:
> > >
> >
http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPl
> > anetApes6
> > > .jpg
> > >
> > > Nova:
> > >
> >
http://www.411beanies.com/1julius/Cons/TF2005/SideShow/TF05SideShowPl
> > anetApes9
> > > .jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

.html--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:

> I'm glad Boulle left out the gibbons. Once you allow gibbons in,

there goes the neighborhood!

I agree, Gibbons in POTA woulda sucked...<.html

.html In a message dated 2/24/05 3:40:15 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

AND from having the Marvel Comics and the Power Records as the main source for reminiscence.

Well, if you had the MARVEL comics, they had adaptions of PLANET... Didn't reading them convince you that the apes are/were capable of capital punishment?<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: mlccougar@... [mlccougar@...]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:45 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: wish list

In a message dated 2/24/05 3:40:15 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

AND from having the Marvel Comics and the Power Records as the main source for reminiscence.

Well, if you had the MARVEL comics, they had adaptions of PLANET... Didn't reading them convince you that the apes are/were capable of capital punishment?

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Whitty, Michael

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 1:09 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] An Evening With Peter Jackson.

I will be there to encouage Peter to get a new POTA movie underway.

 

Please forward to me any comments/questions you think might help.

 

Michael

 

Exclusive to the Powerhouse Museum, Peter Jackson, Academy Award Winning Director of The Lord of the Rings Motion Picture Trilogy, provides a rare behind-the-scenes insight into the making of this epic film trilogy. Jackson takes you on a journey through never before seen footage, bloopers and reveals secrets. Book NOW Saturday 12 March, 6.00pm - 8.00pm, State Theatre, Sydney

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Whitty, Michael

To: 'PotaDG@yahoogroups.com'

Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 4:45 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: An Evening With Peter Jackson.

I won't, but this is apparently a VERY expensive, low number event and he is available to sign posters etc so I will at LEAST line up and ask him a few quick ones.  If he IS a pota FAN, I'll hand him a copy of the Beware the Beast comics and give him my details.

 

You never know Rory.  I went to see the Roger Waters concert in Sydney where there were 40 000 people who all wanted to meet him and I pulled it off!

 

So I will be doing what I can and really, I think he would do a MUCH better job than Burton did - and just MAYBE he would even do a GOOD job!

If he is a fan, he is in a position to make demands!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Haristas@... [Haristas@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 11:40 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: An Evening With Peter Jackson.

In a message dated 2/23/05 4:11:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I will be there to encouage Peter to get a new POTA movie underway.

Please forward to me any comments/questions you think might help.

Michael

Don't get your hopes up mate.

-- Rory

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Whitty, Michael

To: 'PotaDG@yahoogroups.com'

Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 9:11 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Hit list

That's the way I see it - but it is a bit of a muddled message isn't it?

 

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: mlccougar@... [mlccougar@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:07 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] wish list

In a message dated 2/23/05 6:34:45 PM Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

Dr. Zaius is so scared of the ape population finding
the truth about man that he is willing to let Ursus break their most
sacred law! It's pretty shocking but it makes sense. I don't think
Zaius would ever be able to to it himself but he is quick to have
others sent directly to ape hell.

CAPITAL PUNISHMENT is totally justifiable in the Apes society... As far back as the original PLANET, they spoke of it ("You'll hang for high treason...") And in the TV series it was brought up quite a bit ("I'll have you killed someday, as I must have poor Galen killed", etc...) Movie and TV Zaius figures were both ready to have offenders killed to preserve their society... Capital Punishment is not the same as "cold blooded murder"... Murder (unjustified killing/killing for the sake of killing, etc.) is what breaks their "Ape shall not kill Ape" law, not killing of an enemy of the state...

<.html

Rick Baker wanted to do gibbons and monkeys in Burton's POTA but because
of time limits they stayed with the traditional chimps, gorillas and orangs.
Not that adding gibbons would've saved the film. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "patrickmichaeltilton" <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:08 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: gibbons


>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> > I'm glad Boulle left out the gibbons. Once you allow gibbons in,
> there goes the neighborhood!
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> *** In MARVEL's "TERROR ON THE POTA", a human artifact-seeker-outer
> named Lightsmith has a sidekick: a gibbon named Gilbert who, alas, is
> mute, but is able to write legible English.
>
> I don't consider any of the POTA stuff to be "canon" unless it was
> live-action (i.e. the 5 movies & 14 TV episodes), but I thought it
> should be pointed out that there is this one gibbon character.
> However, he looked pretty LARGE for a gibbon -- Ploog made him look
> more like one of the chimps, I think.
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Whitty, Michael

To: 'PotaDG@yahoogroups.com'

Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:25 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Terror

So what did you think of "Terror" Patrick?

For a while there when I first discovered APES I thought Terror was a movie or TV SHow!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: patrickmichaeltilton [patrickmichaeltilton@...]
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 8:08 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: gibbons

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> I'm glad Boulle left out the gibbons. Once you allow gibbons in,
there goes the neighborhood!
>
> -- Rory

*** In MARVEL's "TERROR ON THE POTA", a human artifact-seeker-outer
named Lightsmith has a sidekick: a gibbon named Gilbert who, alas, is
mute, but is able to write legible English.

I don't consider any of the POTA stuff to be "canon" unless it was
live-action (i.e. the 5 movies & 14 TV episodes), but I thought it
should be pointed out that there is this one gibbon character.
However, he looked pretty LARGE for a gibbon -- Ploog made him look
more like one of the chimps, I think.

Patrick

<.html

Attachments :

.html <.html

And you were there!

One daughter says: Oh. WoW! Planet of the Apes? That's cool!

The other daughter says: 1977? What were they wearing?

Nice picture, Michael.

Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Who needs a haunted house?!?!?!
>
>
http://www2.campbelltown.nsw.gov.au/LocalHist/scripts/ExtSearch.asp?
Sear
> chTerm=004825
>
> I always THOUGHT I visited a Planet of the Apes Exhibit..now I
know I
> was not wrong!
>
> How COOL!
>
> Unidentified people outside

.html wow  thats great,no if we could make a time machine and go back that would be great.The worst thing is after the show that facade problem just wound up somewhere rusting,when it could of been in my backyard :)   Does any one else have pix of odd Ape sitings or events from the 70s?        goapebilly<.html

I believe that if any ape class were "the hippies" it
would be the bonobos....I think I'd stay with them
with their continuous hippie commune ape orgies!!

Tim

-That's cool Michael! Any idea what it was like
inside?
Tim

-- Michael Whitty <whitty@...> wrote:

> Who needs a haunted house?!?!?!
>
>

http://www2.campbelltown.nsw.gov.au/LocalHist/scripts/ExtSearch.asp?Sear

> chTerm=004825
>
> I always THOUGHT I visited a Planet of the Apes
> Exhibit..now I know I
> was not wrong!
>
> How COOL!
>
> Unidentified people outside
>
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________

.html Wow.  My first reaction was "Vincent Price" also and I thought I was loosing it and would be the only one who thought that.
Nice to know that I'm not 'seeing things'.

Dario

ape_mom wrote:

Yeah, that's what I thought, too.  Very disappointing!

Helen


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
>   I think their Brent looks like Vincent Price. It's not MY
Brent. - - -
> Jeff

--

Dario Sciola SDM/CBM Design Nortel Networks Ottawa, Ontario, Canada

darios@... (613) 763-5232 ESN: 393-5232 YIM: lmcdasc

Did you hear about the dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac? He was up all night wondering if there really was a dog!

<.html

.html I'll have to go back and reread the marvel comics,it's been awhile. It's interesting that a gibbon would show up in the comics. I have seen gibbons at Silver Springs in Fla and they are much smaller than the chimps, gorillas and orangs. Elaine<.html

I bet those mean-old-mutants in BENEATH wouldn't have had it so easy
using mind control on Vincent Price as they did with James
Franciscus. Price would have turned the tables on those freaks! =o)

How do you think the Mutant figures will sell as opposed to the
others in the SIDESHOW line so far? One on hand, it's nice to see
POTA characters in toy form for the first time, but on the other, I
would be more inclined to purchase different characters, mainly apes.

Anyone know if SIDESHOW will continue to go down the line of movies
in order, to TV series, to cartoon if sales figures are good?

Dan

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario <ev001@n...> wrote:
>

Yes. Thanks, Greg P. (And Hunter and everyone else involved in
this project.) You are exceedingly faithful.

Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Greg Plonowski <urko3085@s...> wrote:
> Issue 19, with the conclusion (for now) of the Terror storyline,
is now available on Hunter's site.
>
> Thanks,
> Greg P.

here's a question......
first a brief explanation...I want to color code my
tools and paint equipment (I do production work for
film/theatre) to distinguish them from other's stuff.
I thought of doing the three ape colors in three
stripes......
Orange for Orangs
Green for Chimps
and here's the question....
what color do most people associate with Gorillas?
Plum? Purple? Red from Conquest? or just plain black
or brown....
Just wondering...
Tim



__________________________________

For gorillas I think of plum:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000CAQAB.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

and black.


Helen



--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, ron kenner <brindlepit2002@y...>
wrote:

> for gorillas i mostly think of purple
>
> "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@y...> wrote:here's a question......
> first a brief explanation...I want to color code my
> tools and paint equipment (I do production work for
> film/theatre) to distinguish them from other's stuff.
> I thought of doing the three ape colors in three
> stripes......
> Orange for Orangs
> Green for Chimps
> and here's the question....
> what color do most people associate with Gorillas?
> Plum? Purple? Red from Conquest? or just plain black
> or brown....
> Just wondering...
> Tim
>
>
>
> __________________________________

For gorillas I think of plum:
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000CAQAB.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

and black.


Helen



--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, ron kenner <brindlepit2002@y...>
wrote:
> for gorillas i mostly think of purple
>
> "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@y...> wrote:here's a question......
> first a brief explanation...I want to color code my
> tools and paint equipment (I do production work for
> film/theatre) to distinguish them from other's stuff.
> I thought of doing the three ape colors in three
> stripes......
> Orange for Orangs
> Green for Chimps
> and here's the question....
> what color do most people associate with Gorillas?
> Plum? Purple? Red from Conquest? or just plain black
> or brown....
> Just wondering...
> Tim
>
>
>            
> __________________________________

.html
-- <.html

.html
-- <.html

-Nice Helen! visuals!!......I'm thinking somewhere
between purple and plum...not sure they make plum
spray paint! Red would be easiest as the Conquest
gorillas are definately red...but I like the classic
colors better....

Tim

-- ron kenner <brindlepit2002@...> wrote:

> that link made me laugh out loud.
> not sure why.
> guess i was expecting a gorilla.
>
> ape_mom <sand_hill_school@...> wrote:
>
> For gorillas I think of plum:
>

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000CAQAB.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

>
> and black.
>
>
> Helen
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, ron kenner
> <brindlepit2002@y...>
> wrote:
> > for gorillas i mostly think of purple
> >
> > "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@y...> wrote:here's a
> question......
> > first a brief explanation...I want to color code
> my
> > tools and paint equipment (I do production work
> for
> > film/theatre) to distinguish them from other's
> stuff.
> > I thought of doing the three ape colors in three
> > stripes......
> > Orange for Orangs
> > Green for Chimps
> > and here's the question....
> > what color do most people associate with Gorillas?
> > Plum? Purple? Red from Conquest? or just plain
> black
> > or brown....
> > Just wondering...
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
__________________________________

It's still very cool that they went to all that
trouble! and judging from the type, it looks like they
were influenced by Marvel magazine/--- Michael Whitty
<whitty@...> wrote:

> Hi Tim
>
> I thought it was a FAKE memory, but what I DO recall
> is..fairly LAME!
>
> I seem to recall it was a "haunted house" but with
> apes instead of
> skeletons etc.
>
> As you can see from their art on the front, they
> didn't get all
> ACCURATE!
>
> But it made my day!
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim "apefan" [apefan23@...]
> Sent: Saturday, 26 February 2005 2:28 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Haunted House?
>
> * -That's cool Michael! Any idea what it was
> like
> inside?
> Tim
>
> -- Michael Whitty <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> > Who needs a haunted house?!?!?!
> >
> >
>

http://www2.campbelltown.nsw.gov.au/LocalHist/scripts/ExtSearch.asp?Sear

> > chTerm=004825
> >
> > I always THOUGHT I visited a Planet of the Apes
> > Exhibit..now I know I
> > was not wrong!
> >
> > How COOL!.
>
> --
>

__________________________________

.html I love those gorillas in purple! Elaine<.html

Glad to make your day, Rob/Ron!! :))



--From a serious coffee addict (Helen)




--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, ron kenner <brindlepit2002@y...>
wrote:

> that link made me laugh out loud.
> not sure why.
> guess i was expecting a gorilla.
>
> ape_mom <sand_hill_school@y...> wrote:
>
> For gorillas I think of plum:
> http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000CAQAB.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
>
> and black.
>
>
> Helen
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, ron kenner <brindlepit2002@y...>
> wrote:
> > for gorillas i mostly think of purple
> >
> > "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@y...> wrote:here's a question......
> > first a brief explanation...I want to color code my
> > tools and paint equipment (I do production work for
> > film/theatre) to distinguish them from other's stuff.
> > I thought of doing the three ape colors in three
> > stripes......
> > Orange for Orangs
> > Green for Chimps
> > and here's the question....
> > what color do most people associate with Gorillas?
> > Plum? Purple? Red from Conquest? or just plain black
> > or brown....
> > Just wondering...
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________

.html <.html

Attachments :

What the hell color is this? from Planet, Beneath and
Battle and TV.......am surprised they are pretty much
consistant. the toys are all over the place with color
but I guess they just used the same gorilla costumes
all the way through....Hey Go Ape Billy.....what color
are your costumes?
Tim


--- Michael Whitty <whitty@...> wrote:

> Hi Tim
>
> I don't know why - but I NEVER got the purple or
> plum colour for a
> gorilla!
>
> I always thought it was brown so that's the colour I
> associated - brown
> (and black!).
>
> Now I know better, I think purple/plum!
>
> Michael

__________________________________

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Oh - I know it IS plum, just for whatever reason I never knew

BEFORE RECENTLY!

-- Well when ever I have done any pictures of the gorillas in colour
I have always used a dark purple for the tunics and gloves etc. and
a more red looking purple for the shirts and pants myself.

Neil

.html In a message dated 2/25/05 12:25:40 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 Rick Baker wanted to do gibbons and monkeys in Burton's POTA but because
of time limits they stayed with the traditional chimps, gorillas and orangs.

I have always been GLAD that they DROPPED the idea of using gibbons, monkeys, baboons, etc... The main three are all you need, the inclusion of others would have been stupid...<.html

.html In a message dated 2/25/05 9:51:05 AM Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

I have seen gibbons at Silver Springs in Fla and they are much smaller than the chimps, gorillas and orangs.

Not only smaller, but because of that, they are more "monkey-like"... Something that would have dragged POTA down...<.html

.html <.html

.html In a message dated 2/25/05 5:48:55 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Oh – I know it IS plum, just for whatever reason I never knew BEFORE RECENTLY!

I think it's because I didn't pay attention AND the colours in the films were so washed when I saw them!

OR I'm just colourblind….and/or stupid!  ;)


Or, you were thinking of the way the MEGO Soldier Apes and Ursus were dressed... Don't forget, on the MEGOs, the colors were generally Blue and Brown...<.html

.html.html In a message dated 2/25/05 10:37:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, ev001@... writes:

Wow.  My first reaction was "Vincent Price" also

You know, there's a point in BENEATH where James Franciscus sounds just like Vincent Price.  Does anyone else know where it is?  Hint: it was on the original BENEATH LP.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html <.html

.html In a message dated 2/25/05 7:11:32 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Yeah – planet of the GREAT apes ONLY!

EXACTLY!

Lesser primates like gibbons, and monkeys would have made a mockery of it... Boulle's book is not my favorite piece, but even the source material didn't include anything but the three Great Apes... Including lesser primates would have totally screwed it up...<.html

.html.htmlHelen,

I have a movie you should immediately rent from Netflix.

-- Rory<.html<.html

Ok, Rory. What is it? Hell's Angels came today.

Helen

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> Helen,
>
> I have a movie you should immediately rent from Netflix.
>
> -- Rory

.html.html I'm still waiting for that HELL'S ANGELS.  I saw it years ago but I want to add it to my collection.

Anyway, the movie you have to rent is called HELLO DOWN THERE from 1968.  If you've ever had the wish to see Roddy McDowall and Lou Wagner in a movie together right after they were in POTA, this is the movie -- because they're both in it!

Jeff Krueger may even want to check this DVD out.

-- Rory<.html<.html

.html In a message dated 2/25/05 9:22:26 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Anyway, the movie you have to rent is called HELLO DOWN THERE from 1968.  

What's the basic plot of this movie?<.html

.html

In a message dated 2/24/2005 3:39:25 P.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

I've emailed the record company (COLUMBIA, if I recall), but they don't have any plans to release that album on CD any time soon.

The ought to be someone with a turntable and recording software.  This seems to happen a lot!  I'm going to have to build a system, for not only LP to CD, but VHS to DVD.

 

<.html

.html

Wow!  An Apes Sideshow in '77?

I'm not sure is that's backwards or

progressive!?!

<.html

.html

In a message dated 2/25/2005 8:17:09 A.M. Central Standard Time, goapebilly@... writes:

Does any one else have pix of odd Ape sitings or events from the 70s? 

 

How about the beauty contest?

Or the van painting contest Burton won?

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 2/25/2005 9:37:51 A.M. Central Standard Time, ev001@... writes:

Wow.  My first reaction was "Vincent Price" also

Wow! 

I thought Dr. Opheus, and he seem based on Vincent Price.

 

<.html