--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

>There is only one Lawgiver... It is not a position equal to that of

the Pope...

-- Is this actually stated in any of the movies? Or any where else?

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

>The ONLY reason those scenes were edited out were so that they could

have 1 more showing of "BATTLE" per day, to increase profits.

-- I've heard this myth before but I don't believe it. I mean the
amount of time they would have saved by cutting out these few minutes
could not have added up to enough time to even squeeze in an extra
half showing of the movie let alone the whole thing!

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

>What you fail to understand, Patrick, is that time only moves in one

direction, from the past into the future, just not necessarily into
the same future. Time is like a highway with an infinite number of
lanes, none of which loop back on themselves.

-- Thanks Rory, you've just proved to us that 'Escape' never happened
then. ;-)

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

>just as when you take the events of BATTLE forward 2000 years or so

you're not going to find the same Cornelius and Zira or Dr. Zaius

--Or a Cornelius, Zira or Dr. Zaius at all!

Neil

Hello,

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munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

Yeah - this is a claim James mad...that a "contact in the industry" just happened to know this and told him.

Ifyou ask James a few pertinentquestions he quickly changes the subject!  Guess that's what people do when the are goingto get caught out lying!

Michael
 

--------- Original Message --------
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
To: "PotaDG@yahoogroups.com" <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Buy it... you'll sleep better!
Date: 18/05/05 09:18

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
>The ONLY reason those scenes were edited out were so that they could
have 1 more showing of "BATTLE" per day, to increase profits.

-- I've heard this myth before but I don't believe it. I mean the
amount of time they would have saved by cutting out these few minutes
could not have added up to enough time to even squeeze in an extra
half showing of the movie let alone the whole thing!

Neil 

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.html.html In a message dated 5/17/2005 8:10:43 AM Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Is this actually stated in any of the movies?

When Zaius refers to him as "The Greatest Ape of All", I'd say that says it right there... There can only be ONE greatest ape, and it was the Lawgiver mentioned in PLANET/BENEATH....

<.html <.html

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/17/2005 8:10:43 AM Central Standard Time,
>When Zaius refers to him as "The Greatest Ape of All", I'd say that

says it right there... There can only be ONE greatest ape, and it
was the Lawgiver mentioned in PLANET/BENEATH....

-- Fair enough but the point I am trying to make is that this could
be a common misconception. In their distant past (i.e. Battle era)
maybe the Lawgiver was a 'Pope' type of religious leader but by
Zaius' time what if the line of Lawgivers had ended for some reason
in that past and they now believe they had all been just the one
Lawgiver?

Our own records of the past are often found to be wrong or
misrepresented and I can't see a more primitive society of apes
having better historical (both written and verbal) records than we
do now.

The same could also be true of some of Cornelius' historical 'facts'
(and things like the first ape who spoke being called Aldo) that
seem to be taken as literal proof of the Apes' past by some.

We certainly don't know exactly what went down in our past and I
contend that the future rulers of the planet would have even
scratchier records than we do.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , taebokitti@a... wrote:

> Do you think the Lawgiver wrote the Sacred Scrolls by himself or do

you think he had help?

-- I myself would say that they were written by others much like the
Bible and like that publication who can ever prove whether
the 'stories' are true or not?

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Whitty <whitty@c...> wrote:

>Yeah - this is a claim James mad...that a "contact in the industry"

just happened to know this and told him.

--And if it is true that the reason the scenes were cut from Battle
just to try and fit in more showings, would this also be the reason
why scenes were cut from the other movies?

Neil

.html I was thinking the same. The Lawgiver probably had help writing the Sacred Scrolls but the credit for them is given to him only. Elaine<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/16/05 9:55:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > But the Gorillas somehow split from this peacenik group sometime
> > prior to 2670.
>
> According to Cornelius in PLANET there were once "carnivorous

gorillas." These were probably mad, irradiated gorillas that lived
in savage bands on the outskirts of the Forbidden Zone -- IN THE
ORIGINAL TIMELINE, Patrick, not in your silly Roswell inspired
timeloop!

>
> I never knew before, Patrick, that you had such a "thing" about

gorillas. You sound like you don't like gorillas very much.

>
> -- Rory

*** In my scenario, the gorillas branched off from the
Chimp/Orang/Human peacenik group not long after the death of Caesar.
They didn't like being frowned upon by the other apes due to Aldo
being the "Cain" of their history. Having no stomach for cowtowing to
humans enjoying "equality" with the Apes, the Gorillas go off to form
their own society...


... but, lacking the advantages that inter-species/interracial and
intercultural cooperation brings, their 'splitter' society
degenerates, and some of them wind up living a savage existence --
even resorting to carnivorism (and, perhaps, cannibalism). It is THIS
branch of the gorillas that left its artifacts in the Cave where
Cornelius found 'em. It doesn't mean that ALL apes lived a
carnivorous and savage life -- ONLY SOME GORILLAS (according to the
evidence) reverted to that state.

And Cornelius dates those carnivorous gorillas to the SAME era (c.
2655) when the "nice" Lawgiver teaches the group in "BATTLE" [2670] --
a century before the writing of the Sacred Scrolls by the
LATER "mean" Lawgiver, c. 2755.

Haven't you ever wondered why Cornelius never found CHIMP or
ORANGUTAN bones in that Cave? Why only carnivorous gorillas? Why
would THEY have reverted to carnivorism, and not the OTHER types of
apes? In 3955, all 3 types live together in "Ape City" and they don't
eat meat. WHY were some gorillas once carnivorous? Do you think that
radiation makes you go "mad" and turn carnivorous? You sound as
prejudiced as Caesar, when he labels ALL the humans from the
Forbidden City as "Mutant" and "mad". Did Mendez come across as
insane when he was trying to talk Kolp out of his impending invasion
of Caesar's idyllic treehouse city?

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/16/05 10:03:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > Caesar's statue weeps at the same time that Taylor begins his

Final Report, addressed to those back on Earth whom he thinks are "a
different breed... I hope a better one."

> >
>
> Wrong, Patrick. Taylor makes his "Final Report" hundreds of years

before the final scene of BATTLE.

*** You're stuPENdously wrong, Rory! Taylor's "Final Report" is given
when the EARTH-TIME clock reads 3-23-2673 (within less than two
minutes of screentime, the final date reads 3-27-2673). The EARTH-
TIME year, Rory, was TWENTY-SIX SEVENTY THREE. That's a mere 3 YEARS
after the date when the "nice" Lawgiver tells the story of Caesar to
the group of kiddies, in 2670.

You're confusing the EARTH-TIME clock with the SHIP-TIME clock, which
read 7-14-1972. Now, THAT date IS hundreds of years earlier, but when
Taylor says "... you who are reading me NOW are a different breed..."
the "NOW" he's referring to is the EARTH-TIME DATE OF 2673. As he
also says, "I leave the twentieth century with no regrets." Didn't
you hear him when he said, "According to Doctor Hasslein's theory of
Time in a vehicle travelling nearly the speed of light, THE EARTH HAS
AGED NEARLY SEVEN HUNDRED YEARS SINCE WE LEFT IT, while we've aged
hardly at all..."???

Taylor has aged only half a year since he left Earth in 1972, but our
planet has aged, by then (according to his Time Dilation-experiencing
ship travelling nearly at lightspeed) nearly 700 years. Actually,
just over 701 years, since March 23rd 2673 minus January 14th 1972 is
equal to 701 years and nearly two months. He rounded "down" to the
number 700.

Jeezus, Rory, how the **** didn't you KNOW this?
----------------------------------------------------------------

>
> What you fail to understand, Patrick, is that time only moves in

one direction, from the past into the future, just not necessarily
into the same future. Time is like a highway with an infinite number
of lanes, none of which loop back on themselves.

*** What YOU fail to understand, Rory, is that Time CAN move
backwards in the POTA saga's universe -- THAT is why the EARTH-TIME
clock (what Hasslein calls the "date meter") actually is programmed
under certain circumstances to CLICK BACKWARD when Time in the
Universe outside the spaceship's warpfield is flowing the wrong way.
Milo and his Ape-onaut pals actually WITNESS this back-to-the-Past
clicking of the clock: it FIRST reads "3955" and when the timewarp is
done, they see that it reads "1973".

You got your "Time is like a highway" line from this same Doctor
Hasslein who ADMITS that the ONLY explanation that makes sense is
that the Apes came FROM THE FUTURE. The ONLY way they could've done
that is if Time did indeed "loop back on itself".
-------------------------------------------------------------

>
> You see, what's so ridiculous about your view that the APES series

is a timeloop is that it suggests that EVERYTHING in the universe
loops back on itself. If it happens to the earth, then it would also
have to be happening to the entire universe. That's absurd! You
ignore that basic physical reality of the expanding universe. There
is "time" because the universe is expanding and breaking down. And
the current best theories are that the universe will continue to
expand until it thins ut to nothing and time ends.

>
> There just is no such thing as a timeloop -- except in your mind!
>
> -- Rory

*** Rory, did you ever see the STAR TREK episode "THE CITY ON THE
EDGE OF FOREVER"? In that episode, McCoy travels into the Past and
does SOMETHING that does indeed change everything that had happened
between some date during the 1930's and the 2260's -- all the history
that Kirk & Spock knew was WIPED OUT, and the only way it could be
reestablished is if they (safe in a zone of null-time on the Time
Planet with the Guardian of Forever) were to go back EARLIER than
McCoy and PREVENT him from doing whatever he would otherwise do which
would alter the Future that they knew as their own Past History.

You jabber about "the current best theories" but you don't seem to be
at all familiar with the "Many Worlds" theory -- the notion that for
every moment when something can happen in either of a number of ways,
EVERY SINGLE WAY DOES HAPPEN, and this creates an infinite number of
Alternate Universes (like the show "Sliders") all co-existing in
parallel timetracks. Just like STAR TREK's "Mirror Mirror" universe,
where an Empire is co-existing in a parallel reality with the
Federation. BOTH universes (along with an infinite number of other
parallel universes) occupying the SAME space and time but NOT the
same universe. Call the sum of all those universes the "multiverse"
if you will. Or even if you won't, what do I care?

There IS a timeloop in the POTA universe, because Dehn when he
wrote "ESCAPE" put it there, you idjit!

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 5/17/2005 8:10:43 AM Central Standard Time,
> >When Zaius refers to him as "The Greatest Ape of All", I'd say

that

> says it right there... There can only be ONE greatest ape, and it
> was the Lawgiver mentioned in PLANET/BENEATH....
>
> -- Fair enough but the point I am trying to make is that this could
> be a common misconception. In their distant past (i.e. Battle era)
> maybe the Lawgiver was a 'Pope' type of religious leader but by
> Zaius' time what if the line of Lawgivers had ended for some reason
> in that past and they now believe they had all been just the one
> Lawgiver?
>
> Our own records of the past are often found to be wrong or
> misrepresented and I can't see a more primitive society of apes
> having better historical (both written and verbal) records than we
> do now.
>
> The same could also be true of some of Cornelius'

historical 'facts'

> (and things like the first ape who spoke being called Aldo) that
> seem to be taken as literal proof of the Apes' past by some.
>
> We certainly don't know exactly what went down in our past and I
> contend that the future rulers of the planet would have even
> scratchier records than we do.
>
> Neil

*** The ape Minister, in "BENEATH", also refers to this figure from
their history as God's "prophet". This brings to mind the so-
called "prophet" Mohammed, who wrote the Quran. Mohammed wasn't the
ONLY prophet of God, according to Islam -- they recognize the
prophets of the Old Testament (including Moses, who was also
a "lawgiver") as true prophets, and they even acknowledge Jesus to
have been a prophet -- they only see Christians as having falsely
elevated a mere human prophet to the status of Godhood.

What Muslims DO say regarding Mohammed, though, is that he is not
ONLY a prophet in a long line of true prophets... he is the LAST
prophet, and his scripture (the Quran) is the FINAL, TRUEST and BEST
revelation of God, rendering all OTHER scriptures essentially moot.

I look at the Lawgiver who got a statue made of him -- the one
referred to by Zaius as "our Lawgiver" the same way a Muslim would
view Mohammed as HIS prophet (as opposed to any other preceding
prophet, or any subsequent "false" prophet like Joseph Smith, who
wrote his "Book of Mormon" scriptures) -- as a Mohammed-like figure:
he was an ape who had become the most recent in a long line of
leaders called "lawgivers" who was so radical that he purposely wrote
his own scripture, a work intended to render all other scriptures as
useless, even heretical.

There's evidence in the POTA films to support this. When Cornelius
talks about "history scrolls kept hidden from the masses" (he also
calls them "the SECRET SCROLLS") he's referring to documents that had
been purposely suppressed by those in Power -- and the ones in power
were followers of "the greatest ape of all", their Lawgiver.

The Lawgiver's "SACRED SCROLLS" depict Man as a dangerous
animal, "the devil's pawn" and all that. Earlier documents (like the
one John Huston's character reads from) portray Humans as having once
evilly enslaved apes and then waged the vilest war in human
history... but THAT history had to be suppressed in order for the
new, false doctrines of the Lawgiver to be propounded and enforced.
The belief that Man once had been the dominant species had to be
expunged -- it became "the Terrible Secret", and Zaius' ancestors
became that secret's guardians.

Just as in human history there were prophets all through it from the
time of Adam on down, in Islam it is believed that the GREATEST
prophet of all -- the LAST one -- was Mohammed. And NO OTHER man is
to ever be considered a prophet after him -- his Quran is their final
word regarding God's revelation to Man.

So, too, do the apes (in "PLANET" and "BENEATH") consider the LAST of
MANY lawgivers to be THE Lawgiver. The Lawgiver to end all lawgivers.
The one whose 'revelation' (the "SACRED SCROLLS") is the FINAL WORD
in matters involving Ancient History and Religion.

Ape religion, in "PLANET", is suggested to be equally intolerant,
like modern day Islam. Remember Cornelius' line about getting his
head chopped off for daring to advocate a theory that is deemed
HERETICAL by the Academy? How many beheadings have you read about in
the news that did NOT involve a fanatical Muslim, of late? Judaism
and Christianity, as practices in the modern world, do not mistreat
dissenters in this fashion... but in countries dominated by Islamic
law, it's par-for-the-course.

The "Lawgiver" who wrote the Sacred Scrolls was as intolerant as
Mohammed, and his devoted followers were equally fanatical and
intolerant towards dissent. Those apes who couldn't stand it had to
become Apostates -- willing to flee to the Forbidden Zone, of all
places!

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/16/05 9:10:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > Is POTA (the 5-film saga) a "closed timeloop" type of time travel

story, or a "two timelines" CHANGED Past type of story? My next post
will address a question Mike posed...

> >
> > Patrick
> >
>
> You're problem, Patrick, is that you have no problem rewriting

PLANET to make it fit with the rest of the series, the earth time
date of 3978 being just one example.

*** I'm NOT changing the EARTH-TIME date of 3978, Rory. My POTA
project does involve rewriting, but ONLY by using the verbatim
dialogue given on-screen AND the actual details presented on-screen.

In my project Taylor will still see [11-25-3978] on his clock, but
that's because his clock wasn't hooked in to the "master computer" of
the Mothership which had its AUTOMATIC HOMING DEVICE activated to
send it back to Earth -- and Brent's ship AND the 3rd ship WERE
hooked into it, so that THEIR clocks DID register the time-change
from 3978-to-3955, just as Virdon's ship's EARTH-TIME clock clicked
back from 7-14-3085 to 3-21-3085.

I've never made any bones about the fact that I am trying to make ALL
the live-action POTA stuff (the 5 films and 14 episodes) fit together
in a way that makes the most sense (to me). You're right: I do NOT
have a problem doing this. The same way that Dehn didn't have a
problem when he used "PLANET" as a source for his own sequel stories.
The same way Serling/Wilson/etc didn't have a problem when
they 'butchered' Boulle's novel to make their movie. You 'disrespect'
Boulle when you laud the movie, Rory... (just kidding: I prefer the
movie to the book, which I still respect for being what it is).
-------------------------------------------------------

I, on the other hand, simply respect the original film too much to
alter one detail about it, hence anything in BENEATH and the later
sequels that does jibe with PLANET is an inconsistency on their part,
not something in the original that should be changed -- and that's
that with me.

>
> You, Patrick, just don't have the kind of respect for the original

film that I do. You put the series of movies ahead of the original.
I don't.

>
> You disrespect PLANET.
>
> -- Rory

*** I could take this as an insult, but I'd prefer not. Let's just
say that we both respect "PLANET" in different ways. I
respect "PLANET" as well as the sequels. Though the 1st was the best,
the others are terrific in their own right, and out of respect for
ALL of the POTA stuff, I'm doing my own thing. And NOTHING I'm doing
compromises what was done in "PLANET" -- it merely reconciles all the
filmed POTA works to each other in a way that makes more sense than
the flubbing originators intended.

One example: the size of Taylor's ship. If what we see on-screen
in "PLANET" were all there is to it, then "PLANET" goofed royally by
making it too damn small. If we ignore "BENEATH" (which showed the
complete ANSA ship design exterior) and speculate that there's more
to Taylor's ship underwater, it still can't be much, since it's
floating at an angle rather than pointing straight up, with water in
its aft-most compartment, jetting into the cockpit area.

Taylor and his crew were awake for 6 months of SHIP-TIME prior to
going into hibernation. About 180 days. How much food and water would
they need to survive that long? Where's the cooking facilities?
Where's the bathroom? Where's all that "cargo" Taylor alluded to,
when he referred to Stewart as "the most precious cargo we brought
along"? There ain't ROOM for any cargo in the ship -- or, in those
parts of it which we see on-screen.

That means that there's MORE to Taylor's ship than meets the eye, and
it doesn't matter if you ignore the sequels at this point: even in
only the 1st movie, it's problematical.

My scenario explains these problems: the "cargo" hold isn't on the
spaceplane/shuttle we see on-screen... it's on their Mothership.
Their Mothership is just like the one described by Boulle in the
source novel: a ship that STAYS IN ORBIT while smaller vehicles ferry
down astronauts to the surface of the planet. Both motherships have
THREE of these shuttles; Taylor's has the three we see in "PLANET"
(the one that sank in Dead Lake), in "BENEATH" (the one Brent &
Skipper crashed) and in "ESCAPE" (the one Milo had found on the coast
of the ocean, the "seaboard").

Makes perfect sense.

Patrick

.html

In a message dated 5/17/2005 11:21:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- I myself would say that they were written by others much like the
Bible and like that publication who can ever prove whether
the 'stories' are true or not?

 

I like to think he found a Bible and copied the style.

 

<.html

Don't you two have a canceled Star Trek show to be fighting about
somewhere? Just kidding guys. You two have both given this a whole
lot of thought. I'd like to see you both put together fanfic stories
and post them to see who people tend to side with. You both have the
passion and both believe you have the knowledge. Maybe Michael could
help iron out your ideas into readable stories. I'd love to see you
guys battle it out that way. The challenge is out there. Any takers?




--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 5/16/05 9:10:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Is POTA (the 5-film saga) a "closed timeloop" type of time

travel

> story, or a "two timelines" CHANGED Past type of story? My next

post

> will address a question Mike posed...
> > >
> > > Patrick
> > >
> >
> > You're problem, Patrick, is that you have no problem rewriting
> PLANET to make it fit with the rest of the series, the earth time
> date of 3978 being just one example.
>
> *** I'm NOT changing the EARTH-TIME date of 3978, Rory. My POTA
> project does involve rewriting, but ONLY by using the verbatim
> dialogue given on-screen AND the actual details presented on-

screen.

>
> In my project Taylor will still see [11-25-3978] on his clock, but
> that's because his clock wasn't hooked in to the "master computer"

of

> the Mothership which had its AUTOMATIC HOMING DEVICE activated to
> send it back to Earth -- and Brent's ship AND the 3rd ship WERE
> hooked into it, so that THEIR clocks DID register the time-change
> from 3978-to-3955, just as Virdon's ship's EARTH-TIME clock clicked
> back from 7-14-3085 to 3-21-3085.
>
> I've never made any bones about the fact that I am trying to make

ALL

> the live-action POTA stuff (the 5 films and 14 episodes) fit

together

> in a way that makes the most sense (to me). You're right: I do NOT
> have a problem doing this. The same way that Dehn didn't have a
> problem when he used "PLANET" as a source for his own sequel

stories.

> The same way Serling/Wilson/etc didn't have a problem when
> they 'butchered' Boulle's novel to make their movie.

You 'disrespect'

> Boulle when you laud the movie, Rory... (just kidding: I prefer the
> movie to the book, which I still respect for being what it is).
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> I, on the other hand, simply respect the original film too much to
> alter one detail about it, hence anything in BENEATH and the later
> sequels that does jibe with PLANET is an inconsistency on their

part,

> not something in the original that should be changed -- and that's
> that with me.
> >
> > You, Patrick, just don't have the kind of respect for the

original

> film that I do. You put the series of movies ahead of the

original.

> I don't.
> >
> > You disrespect PLANET.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> *** I could take this as an insult, but I'd prefer not. Let's just
> say that we both respect "PLANET" in different ways. I
> respect "PLANET" as well as the sequels. Though the 1st was the

best,

> the others are terrific in their own right, and out of respect for
> ALL of the POTA stuff, I'm doing my own thing. And NOTHING I'm

doing

> compromises what was done in "PLANET" -- it merely reconciles all

the

> filmed POTA works to each other in a way that makes more sense than
> the flubbing originators intended.
>
> One example: the size of Taylor's ship. If what we see on-screen
> in "PLANET" were all there is to it, then "PLANET" goofed royally

by

> making it too damn small. If we ignore "BENEATH" (which showed the
> complete ANSA ship design exterior) and speculate that there's more
> to Taylor's ship underwater, it still can't be much, since it's
> floating at an angle rather than pointing straight up, with water

in

> its aft-most compartment, jetting into the cockpit area.
>
> Taylor and his crew were awake for 6 months of SHIP-TIME prior to
> going into hibernation. About 180 days. How much food and water

would

> they need to survive that long? Where's the cooking facilities?
> Where's the bathroom? Where's all that "cargo" Taylor alluded to,
> when he referred to Stewart as "the most precious cargo we brought
> along"? There ain't ROOM for any cargo in the ship -- or, in those
> parts of it which we see on-screen.
>
> That means that there's MORE to Taylor's ship than meets the eye,

and

> it doesn't matter if you ignore the sequels at this point: even in
> only the 1st movie, it's problematical.
>
> My scenario explains these problems: the "cargo" hold isn't on the
> spaceplane/shuttle we see on-screen... it's on their Mothership.
> Their Mothership is just like the one described by Boulle in the
> source novel: a ship that STAYS IN ORBIT while smaller vehicles

ferry

> down astronauts to the surface of the planet. Both motherships have
> THREE of these shuttles; Taylor's has the three we see in "PLANET"
> (the one that sank in Dead Lake), in "BENEATH" (the one Brent &
> Skipper crashed) and in "ESCAPE" (the one Milo had found on the

coast

> of the ocean, the "seaboard").
>
> Makes perfect sense.
>
> Patrick

.html.html In a message dated 5/18/05 12:13:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Fair enough but the point I am trying to make is that this could
be a common misconception.

There's only one "greatest ape" and he is the Lawgiver!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 5/18/05 2:07:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** You're stuPENdously wrong, Rory! Taylor's "Final Report" is given
when the EARTH-TIME clock reads 3-23-2673 (within less than two
minutes of screentime, the final date reads 3-27-2673). The EARTH-
TIME year, Rory, was TWENTY-SIX SEVENTY THREE. That's a mere 3 YEARS
after the date when the "nice" Lawgiver tells the story of Caesar to
the group of kiddies, in 2670.

You're wrong!  In order to get from when Taylor makes his report to the conclusion of BATTLE you have to go through all the events of the five films!  You can't have the events of BATTLE until Taylor lands on the POTA to provide a ship for the apes to go back to 1973! You can't have your chickens before your eggs, Patrick!  Time moves in only one direction.  How could Zira and Cornelius appear in 1973 BEFORE the events of 3978? 

-- Rory 

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 5/18/05 2:07:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

There IS a timeloop in the POTA universe, because Dehn when he
wrote "ESCAPE" put it there, you idjit!

Patrick

WRONG!  He created a second timeline, little boy!

-- Rory<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/18/05 2:07:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > There IS a timeloop in the POTA universe, because Dehn when he
> > wrote "ESCAPE" put it there, you idjit!
> >
> > Patrick
> >
>
> WRONG! He created a second timeline, little boy!
>
> -- Rory

-- This has been a great debate so far everyone but remember, no one
is actually RIGHT or WRONG, it's all just personal opinions!

Neil

"Neil" <nfoster@... >: wrote:
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

>>The ONLY reason those scenes were edited out were so that
>>they could have 1 more showing of "BATTLE" per day, to
>>increase profits.
>
>-- I've heard this myth before but I don't believe it. I
>mean the amount of time they would have saved by cutting
>out these few minutes could not have added up to enough
>time to even squeeze in an extra half showing of the movie
>let alone the whole thing!

I'm inclined to agree with Neil here - I know that this sort of thing
definitely goes on these days, but given how many more screenings are
squeezed into your local multiplex these days compared with the cinemas of
the 70s I really don't think it would have made that great a difference.

Another reason that I have seen is that the footage was removed to make the
film less dark and more family friendly, and that the film ended slightly
more positively as well - all geared towards the family audience basically.

In addition to that I also heard (in one of the old Marvel mags,
perhaps?)that the footage was cut because some of the sound quality was
pretty poor (as a result of the location they were using). This seems
unlikely as well though, given that they could loop it in post-production -
unless their budget was so tight that it was more economical just to cut it
all rather than synch it afterwards.

Alan

.html

In a message dated 5/18/2005 2:23:53 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

There IS a timeloop in the POTA universe, because Dehn when he
wrote "ESCAPE" put it there, you idjit!

Patrick

WRONG!  He created a second timeline, little boy!

 

"Don't be mean.  We don't have to be mean.  "Cause remember,

No matter where you go . . . There you are."

     ~~~Buckaroo Banzai~~~~

 

 

 

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Greg Plonowski <urko3085@s...> wrote:

> Marvel UK issue 31, featuring the first two chapters of Kingdom on

an Island of the Apes, is now available to download from Hunter's
site. Thrill to the adventures of Derek Zane, a man who traveled to
the future without the aid of an ANSA spacecraft (even though he still
managed to crash when he arrived). No space for articles this week in
order to accommodate the double-length allotment of Kingdom, but there
is a letter column.

--Cheers again, Greg.
I suppose this story would be slightly unique for POTA being the only
time a spaceship hasn't been used to get someone into the future?

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> There's only one "greatest ape" and he is the Lawgiver!

-- Maybe one of the big problems with trying to make POTA popular
again is that too many people don't want to embrace change or any
deviations from the original concept? What is the point of just going
over the same things again and again without the incentive to change
and update?

POTA 2001 tried to do things differently but we all seem to agree that
it failed miserably. Would some of the fans who don't seem to want to
have any change from the 'classic' films have been happy if that mess
of a movie had actually had a good story but had still gone with the
different look for the apes and costumes etc.?

Neil

.html.html In a message dated 5/17/2005 11:12:00 PM Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

Do you think the Lawgiver wrote the Sacred Scrolls by himself or do you think he had help?

Alone

<.html <.html

--Cheers again, Greg.
I suppose this story would be slightly unique for POTA being the only
time a spaceship hasn't been used to get someone into the future?

Neil

.html.html In a message dated 5/18/2005 2:09:58 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

There's only one "greatest ape" and he is the Lawgiver!


Damn right...<.html <.html

.html Can you explain why you think he wrote them alone? Elaine<.html

.html.html In a message dated 5/18/2005 11:16:50 PM Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

Can you explain why you think he wrote them alone?

Because he is the greatest ape...

<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 5/18/2005 11:16:50 PM Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

Can you explain why you think he wrote them alone?

Because he is the prophet of God in their eyes... He is their chosen one, and he alone is probably responsible for all their doctrines...<.html <.html

.html What qualifies him to be the greatest ape? I would think Caesar would be considered the greatest ape because he led a successful revolt and apes rose to power. Elaine <.html

.html I wonder what he did to become the prophet of God in the apes' eyes? The task of writing the Sacred Srolls is a heavy one and he must have been brillant to do this on his own. Do you think it is possible that as the Scrolls were passed down from generation to generation, things were slightly changed due to being copied by other apes or do you think they remained intact? Elaine<.html

Shall we start the bidding at $50? :)

Michael

> ----------
> From: sales@...[SMTP:SALES@...]
> Sent: Thursday, 19 May 2005 11:08:36 AM
> To: michael.whitty@...
> Subject: Price increase for LINDAHARRISON.COM
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>

Dear Michael Whitty:

You had previously inquired about the domain name, LINDAHARRISON.COM.
We
thought you
would like to be informed that the price for this domain has recently
increased to $2,988.00.

http://lindaharrison.com/buy/?1549

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www.buydomains.com

.html <.html

.html
-- <.html

.html
-- <.html

.html
-- <.html

Hey Patrick!

I have an idea!

Let me be your editor!

Send me your posts and I'll translate them into something even James
could understand! :)

Seriously - we all love your passion but.....y'know.....PRESENTATION,
m'boy!

I say this respectfully and I REALLY think you need an interpreter.

PLUS...we need more posts on the DG....not LESS posts with MORE
content!!! :)

Michael

>
> ----------
> From: POTA_Phenomenon@yahoogroups.com on behalf of
> patrickmichaeltilton[SMTP:PATRICKMICHAELTILTON@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2005 2:17:05 PM
> To: POTA_Phenomenon@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [POTA_Phenomenon] Re: TV Series Herald
> Auto forwarded by a Rule
>
--- In POTA_Phenomenon@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/16/2005 6:38:49 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> "Mothership" theory"?
>
>
>
> I challenge your intelligence and your punctuation!
>
> That should either be, ""Mothership theory", or
> ""Mothership" theory".
>
> No offense, because I like you Pat, even though your
> posts are tediously long. But sometimes I wish the
> writers were around to tell you your nuts. But whatever
> you were on when you came up with this cockamamie
> theory . . . I'll have two please.

*** Sorry, T, but my punctuation was on-the-money. Mike's original
sentence (which I was quoting) had the word "Mothership" in quotes,
and when I quoted that chunk of his sentence I had to have quotes
[" "] around the quoted stuff, as well as the quotes around the
already-enquoted word "Mothership" -- which is why there are quote
marks around the entire phrase [from "dedicated..." to "...theory"]
and around the word Mothership, which Michael himself had quote-marks
around.

I hope this post wasn't tediously long, T... ;-)

Patrick





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--




--

.html <.html

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> So they all seem to have different reasons.

-- Yeah I fuigured that, I was just being flippant. Sorry.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Yes Neil, your scenario could prove an interesting avenue for

creative exploration!

-- But it's Planet of the Apes, we can't have 'creative exploration'!
;-)

Neil

.html
-- <.html

I saw it today in George Street Sydney.

I was worried for the first 30 minutes, and it was FAR from perfect, but
it was pretty good.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Anthony B. McElveen
Sent: Tuesday, 17 May 2005 9:14 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Fwd: Star Wars opens this weekend! Your chance
to win tickets t...

I have to show my university ID to get the student discounted price;
US$5.

On May 16, 2005, at 5:10 PM, Michael Whitty wrote:

> They don’t ask for proof Neil!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf

> Of Neil T Foster
> Sent: Tuesday, 17 May 2005 8:06 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Fwd: Star Wars opens this weekend! Your chance
> to win tickets t...
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > The previews look stunning.
>
> -- Just nicked this from my eldest son's room:
>
> <unknown.jpg>
> Now if I can manage to pass myself off as a student I'm in business!
>
> Neil .'-)
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> • To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
>
> • To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> • Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
of
> Service.
>
>
> --




Yahoo! Groups Links








--

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Hey - T will tell you anyway - it's FIGURED! :-)

-- Bloody fat fingers is what it is!

Neil

.html <.html

.html
-- <.html

.html If  I were an ape, I would probably want to believe that the Lawgiver wrote the Scrolls by himself and is an enlightened, intelligent ape. Logic keeps telling me he had help but is given the credit for writing the Scrolls. Instead of the Bible, I keep thinking of Shakespeare who is given credit for his plays while scholars argue he was part of a group effort.  Elaine<.html

.html I often think of Battle as a new beginning where things are going to get better for both apes and humans, even though it is a long road. My optimism is probably pathological. Elaine<.html

.html Ancient history was a rough time for people but we tend to romanticize it. Historical figures are often put on a pedastal. Over time, I think we add attractive qualities to these individuals and the apes would do the same for the Lawgiver. Elaine<.html

.html I am so glad you liked the movie, Michael. If you didn't, I know you would have seen it several times to try to like it.  Elaine<.html

.html

In a message dated 5/19/2005 4:21:03 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Hey – T will tell you anyway – it's FIGURED!  J

No, I missed it.

I guess the reason I get nit-picky is because the

content of the posts have been a little dull lately.

Come on guys.  How about some posts more

interesting than the typos in them.

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Greg Plonowski <urko3085@s...> wrote:

> I believe that the Adventure Comics mini-series Urchak's Folly also

has a time traveller who doesn't use a spaceship.

-- Okay I didn't think of that one (probably because I try to forget
about anything to do with those Adventure comics!) But if it is the
case could anyone who does remember how it was done tell us how this
happened before I have to go and try and dig out my copies and check
it out?

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> Come on guys. How about some posts more interesting than the typos

in them.

-- Okay T start us off then but remember, nothing controversial or
different! ;-)

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , taebokitti@a... wrote:

> I often think of Battle as a new beginning where things are going to

get better for both apes and humans, even though it is a long road.

--YES! Things do get better for a while, they live in harmony but
slowly things do change. The humans, whilst still being able to talk
do become slaves to the apes and end up with no rights. Even the
presence of 2 astronauts from the past who team up with a friendly
chimp and become fugitives can do nothing to change their plight and
they gradually slide into primitive barbarism and lose the power of
speech before... oops. ;-)

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , taebokitti@a... wrote:

> I am so glad you liked the movie, Michael. If you didn't, I know you

would have seen it several times to try to like it.

-- Ha ha! Priceless!

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , taebokitti@a... wrote:

> Ancient history was a rough time for people but we tend to

romanticize it. Historical figures are often put on a pedastal. Over
time, I think we add attractive qualities to these individuals and the
apes would do the same for the Lawgiver.

-- EXACTLY!

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:30 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Buy it... you'll sleep better!

I often think of Battle as a new beginning where things are going to get better for both apes and humans, even though it is a long road. My optimism is probably pathological. Elaine

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:34 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Buy it... you'll sleep better!

Ancient history was a rough time for people but we tend to romanticize it. Historical figures are often put on a pedastal. Over time, I think we add attractive qualities to these individuals and the apes would do the same for the Lawgiver. Elaine

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:39 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Star Wars opens this weekend! Your chance to win tickets t...

I am so glad you liked the movie, Michael. If you didn't, I know you would have seen it several times to try to like it.  Elaine

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , taebokitti@a... wrote:

>The task of writing the Sacred Scrolls is a heavy one and he must

have been brilliant to do this on his own.

-- For a start do we even have a rough idea of how many sacred scrolls
there actually are. The number of the one Cornelius reads aloud at the
end of Planet is mentioned isn't it?

>Do you think it is possible that as the Scrolls were passed down from

generation to generation, things were slightly changed due to being
copied by other apes or do you think they remained intact?

-- I would say they remained pretty much intact once they were written
down but you never know they very well could have been altered to suit
the needs of someone in charge of Ape society or religion. It would
just be another example of them aping their former masters.

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 6:37 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Buy it... you'll sleep better!

In a message dated 5/19/2005 4:21:03 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Hey – T will tell you anyway – it's FIGURED!  J

No, I missed it.

I guess the reason I get nit-picky is because the

content of the posts have been a little dull lately.

Come on guys.  How about some posts more

interesting than the typos in them.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 6:56 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Buy it... you'll sleep better!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
> Ancient history was a rough time for people but we tend to
romanticize it. Historical figures are often put on a pedastal. Over
time, I think we add attractive qualities to these individuals and the
apes would do the same for the Lawgiver.

-- EXACTLY!

Neil

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 5/18/05 11:32:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Do you think the Lawgiver wrote the Sacred Scrolls by himself or do you think he had help?

Alone


I agree.  The Great Lawgiver is the singular author of the Sacred Scrolls.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 9:03 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Buy it... you'll sleep better!

In a message dated 5/18/05 11:32:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Do you think the Lawgiver wrote the Sacred Scrolls by himself or do you think he had help?

Alone

I agree.  The Great Lawgiver is the singular author of the Sacred Scrolls.

-- Rory

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 5/19/05 7:11:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

But do you think he penned them or do you think he is simply credited for the text?

Michael

DAMN IT TO HELL!!!!

I have no way of knowing ANYTHING other than that which is in the original movie!

I'm a complete conservative fundamentalist in this area.

The movie makes no mention of there being any other author of the Sacred Scrolls, and although it doesn't specifically say in the film that the Great Lawgiver was the "only" author of them, it is implied that he wrote them and so I simply go with that.

I don't need to think about this any further.  I'm happy with the status quo.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 9:18 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Buy it... you'll sleep better!

In a message dated 5/19/05 7:11:35 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

But do you think he penned them or do you think he is simply credited for the text?

Michael

DAMN IT TO HELL!!!!

I have no way of knowing ANYTHING other than that which is in the original movie!

I'm a complete conservative fundamentalist in this area.

The movie makes no mention of there being any other author of the Sacred Scrolls, and although it doesn't specifically say in the film that the Great Lawgiver was the "only" author of them, it is implied that he wrote them and so I simply go with that.

I don't need to think about this any further.  I'm happy with the status quo.

-- Rory

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Greg Plonowski wrote:
> I believe that the Adventure Comics mini-series Urchak's Folly also
has a time traveller who doesn't use a spaceship.

-- Okay I didn't think of that one (probably because I try to forget
about anything to do with those Adventure comics!) But if it is the
case could anyone who does remember how it was done tell us how this
happened before I have to go and try and dig out my copies and check
it out?

Neil




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Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

.html.html In a message dated 5/19/2005 6:24:11 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I have no way of knowing ANYTHING other than that which is in the original movie!

That's right.. PLANET is the movie on which everything else was based... What is said in PLANET is original canon, nothing said in there can be "fixed", altered, "unflubbed", rewritten, etc... It's too bad Dehn didn't pay it the attention he should have... PLANET is the originator, everything else after it is sequel(s)...<.html <.html

.html There's always hope! (Elaine the optimist).<.html

.html Why would the apes give him the authority to write the scrolls all by himself? What has he done to deserve greatness? Elaine<.html

.html The original movie doesn't tell us everything, so we can use our imagination. Elaine<.html

.html

I saw a bad movie today.

It was a movie taken from excellent source material,

that was rewritten into a half-assed, run-of-the-mill,

piece of formulaic Hollywood rubbish, with a bunch

of special effects, a couple of cameo appearances

by original cast member, and a plot thin enough to

read a news paper through. No, it wasn't POTA2K1. 

It was The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy.

But you were close!

 

 

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 3:10 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Star Wars opens this weekend! Your chance to win tickets t...

I saw a bad movie today.

It was a movie taken from excellent source material,

that was rewritten into a half-assed, run-of-the-mill,

piece of formulaic Hollywood rubbish, with a bunch

of special effects, a couple of cameo appearances

by original cast member, and a plot thin enough to

read a news paper through. No, it wasn't POTA2K1. 

It was The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy.

But you were close!

<.html

.html

In a message dated 5/20/2005 12:16:43 A.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I haven't bothered to see HGTTG - I'll wait for DVD.

 

It's only worth seeing on the Big Screen for the effects.

On the small screen it will seem even more worthless.

I thought the casting for Ford & Trillian was pretty bad,

but Zaphod takes the cake.  Not only is he American,

but a jerk as well -- and not even a cool jerk.

 

It's dedicated to Douglas at the end.

If that's a tribute they needn't have bothered.

 

<.html

Neil, brings up a good point and warrants a discussion.

While I have dissed POTA2001 in the past, I could easily accept the
makeup/costume changes. As soon as it was announced it just seemed
implausible that they would not tinker with the look and feel since I
never thought that FOX were going after existing fans, but were
essentially targeting a new audience. There was still a legacy of a
great movie and subsequent series of movies that still held some
drawing power, but the emphasis was always that this was going to be a
revamped movie. That has always been the hollywood way.

No what blew it was the missed opportunity with a mediocre plot, lots
of silly dialoge that just didn't fit, and that god awful attempt to
have a stunning ending. Had it not been for those, the
POTA2001 'could' have been a great movie, and we could have been
watching it's sequel today, along with a revitalized series.

Sure, the 'old fart' in me would have prefered 'classic' makeup and
costumes, and basically the entire setting as it was originally
presented. But I understand that there comes a time to move on.
Change, as they say, is sometimes hard to accept, but it is inevitable.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil <nfoster@...>
>
> POTA 2001 tried to do things differently but we all seem to agree
that
> it failed miserably. Would some of the fans who don't seem to want
to
> have any change from the 'classic' films have been happy if that
mess
> of a movie had actually had a good story but had still gone with the
> different look for the apes and costumes etc.?
>
> Neil

I think it is a testament to the original that it has held up this
long and still people enjoy it, because the story and characters were
great. POTA2001 had great makeup and costumes that could have worked
if you cared about these characters the way we all did for the
original. Thade was the only character I was excited by. The others
couldn't get killed off fast enough. I didn't relate to Leo the way I
did to Taylor and even the apes we got to know were not very
interesting. If they had told a great continuing story from the
original series with the updated makeup, etc. I think it would have
revamped the franchise the way we were all hoping for and Planet of
the Apes would be viable again. The inovations could only help the
franchise so much with a story and cast of characters you couldn't
give a f*** about.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@n...> wrote:
> Neil, brings up a good point and warrants a discussion.
>
> While I have dissed POTA2001 in the past, I could easily accept the
> makeup/costume changes. As soon as it was announced it just seemed
> implausible that they would not tinker with the look and feel since
I
> never thought that FOX were going after existing fans, but were
> essentially targeting a new audience. There was still a legacy of a
> great movie and subsequent series of movies that still held some
> drawing power, but the emphasis was always that this was going to
be a
> revamped movie. That has always been the hollywood way.
>
> No what blew it was the missed opportunity with a mediocre plot,
lots
> of silly dialoge that just didn't fit, and that god awful attempt
to
> have a stunning ending. Had it not been for those, the
> POTA2001 'could' have been a great movie, and we could have been
> watching it's sequel today, along with a revitalized series.
>
> Sure, the 'old fart' in me would have prefered 'classic' makeup and
> costumes, and basically the entire setting as it was originally
> presented. But I understand that there comes a time to move on.
> Change, as they say, is sometimes hard to accept, but it is
inevitable.
>
> Dario
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Neil <nfoster@h...>
> >
> > POTA 2001 tried to do things differently but we all seem to agree
> that
> > it failed miserably. Would some of the fans who don't seem to
want
> to
> > have any change from the 'classic' films have been happy if that
> mess
> > of a movie had actually had a good story but had still gone with
the
> > different look for the apes and costumes etc.?
> >
> > Neil

Of interest here because Henry Corden was the voice of General Urko
in Return To The Planet Of The Apes:


AP file
Voice of Fred Flintstone
has died at 85
Henry Corden voiced caveman since 1977

Henry Corden provided the voice for Fred Flintstone for more than two
decades. Corden took over as the lovable loudmouth when original
voice Alan Reed died in 1977.

The Associated Press
Updated: 6:18 p.m. ET May 20, 2005


LOS ANGELES - Henry Corden, the voice of cartoon caveman Fred
Flintstone's "Yabba-dabba-doo!" for more than two decades, has died.
He was 85.

advertisement
document.write('Corden died of emphysema Thursday night at AMI Encino
Hospital, his longtime agent Don Pitts said Friday. Corden's wife of
nine years, Angelina, was with him at the time.

He took over as the lovable loudmouth Fred Flintstone when original
voice Alan Reed died in 1977. Reed had been doing Flintstone since
the character debuted in 1960.

Born in Montreal, Corden moved to New York as a child and arrived in
Hollywood in the 1940s. His first acting role was in the 1947
film "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty." Known for playing villains,
he found small parts in movies, including 1952's "The Black Castle"
and "The Ten Commandments" in 1956.

"As Henry said, he always played the cold-blooded creeps," Pitts said.

Corden moved into voice acting in the 1960s, and deployed his dialect
skills in bit parts for Hanna-Barbera, including "Jonny
Quest," "Josey and the Pussycats" and "The New Tom & Jerry Show."

Since "The Flintstones" echoed "The Honeymooners," Corden tweaked his
role to approximate Jackie Gleason's Ralph Kramden character, Pitts
said.

Corden, who lived in Encino, had been working until his health
suffered about three months ago. He can most recently be heard on
ubiquitous cereal commercials yelling "Barney, my Pebbles!"

Besides his wife, Corden is survived by five children and five
grandchildren. A private memorial "party" is planned, Pitts said.

.html

 

What happened is they broke the cardinal rule of movie remakes.

Which is, don't remake it if you can't do it better than the original.

Remember, The Maltese Falcon was made twice before the one

that is considered the 'Classic Version' with Humphrey Bogart.

I think Burton did it on purpose to keep the original as the

'Classic Version'.  Either that or he was lassoed into it

and just though if they're going to do it anyway I want

to be part of it.  But they didn't have a better story,

or better actors, more advanced film making stuff.

And as we've all seen, just because you can

make Apeier Apes doesn't mean you should.

If you want to make a more attractive

chimpette, don't make the Apes

Apeier.  You're shooting yourself

in the foot when you do that.

 

 

 

 

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In a message dated 5/20/2005 1:57:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

Thade was the only character I was excited by. The others
couldn't get killed off fast enough.

 

I disagree.  Thade was so over-the-top it bordered on comical.

Helena Bonham-Carter was the only one who played her

character with any subtlety at all.  She's still a patch on

Kim Hunter.  Heston should have been cut out al together.

And they should have dubbed Duncan without the dentures.

 

 

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My favourite of the new ape designs was the one for Senator Nado as
played by Glenn Shadix. It's a shame they had to spoil it all with a
gratuitous sex scene.

But then again, the whole movie was gratuitous.

On May 20, 2005, at 6:29 PM, LordTZer0@... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/20/2005 1:57:56 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> DrZaiusDavis@... writes:
>> Thade was the only character I was excited by. The others
>> couldn't get killed off fast enough.
> I disagree. Thade was so over-the-top it bordered on comical.
> Helena Bonham-Carter was the only one who played her
> character with any subtlety at all. She's still a patch on
> Kim Hunter. Heston should have been cut out al together.
> And they should have dubbed Duncan without the dentures.

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.html.html In a message dated 5/20/05 7:47:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, abmac@... writes:

But then again, the whole movie was gratuitous.

And it sucked too!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 5/19/2005 11:03:22 PM Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

What has he done to deserve greatness?

He wrote the damned Scrolls! Writing their doctrines deserves greatness!

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In a message dated 5/20/2005 6:55:56 P.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

That sex scene really summed up what they were trying to do – talking monkeys doing funny tricks.

 

That and the one with the false teeth and a toupee.

I think they said to themselves . . . "Okay, how can

we have a fugitive scene with absolutely no tension

whatsoever?"   Or maybe they said . . . "Lets make a

PG-13 movie!  We'll put in adult themes, but make

them so tame that no adults will enjoy them", or kids

for that matter.  If you want to make a movie that

appeals to the kids, you make it so they think

they snuck into something too adult for them.

And you can't build tension if you have a tension

breaker every two minutes.  I don't think Burton

could have "fixed" this film if he had year to work

on it.  It was doomed to mediocrity from the start.

 

 

 

 

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.html.html In a message dated 5/19/2005 11:26:57 PM Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

The original movie doesn't tell us everything, so we can use our imagination.

It tells you everything you need to know... There's no room for "imagination" when it involves several of the far fetched ideas that have been thrown around lately...

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In a message dated 5/20/2005 7:04:27 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

But then again, the whole movie was gratuitous.

Not in the violence department.

That "battle" looked like a rehearsal.

And a bad one at that.

 

 

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I'll bet they were holding back so the costumes could be reused in the
sequel that won't be made now because the movie sucked.

On May 20, 2005, at 7:14 PM, LordTZer0@... wrote:

> In a message dated 5/20/2005 7:04:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> Haristas@... writes:
>> But then again, the whole movie was gratuitous.
> Not in the violence department.
> That "battle" looked like a rehearsal.
> And a bad one at that.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Yeah - Heston's part was where I fought the first rising of bile..I

was uncertain until then, but that sealed it - the movie had a LOT of
ground to recover after THAT!

-- But like any bad movie there were good points. The apes (well at
least the male ones!) looked great. I agree with Anthony about the
Orang senator, I though he looked good and if they ever did make a
version of the original novel this more realistic look is what I would
like to see.

The costumes were good, HBC was very good and carried the movie for me
and some of the sets were wonderful. It is so sad that they couldn't
have come up with a better movie with all the good stuff they started
with.

I have watched the movie quite a few times and though I admit I don't
like it very much it doesn't make me want to throw up whilst I watch
it. Well except when that ponce Leo is on screen...

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

>It tells you everything you need to know... There's no room

for "imagination" when it involves several of the far fetched ideas
that have been thrown around lately...

-- In my opinion there should always be room for imagination and it
should be okay to expand on and maybe tweak some stuff slightly if not
the concept may very well become stagnant and die.

On a side note are fans happy to have something like stories based on
the TV series follow the same boring chase / capture / escape etc.
formula that it had or would they be willing to embrace a radical
shift in the way those stories are told?

Neil

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In a message dated 5/20/2005 7:34:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- But like any bad movie there were good points. The apes (well at
least the male ones!) looked great.

I don't know about great.

A lot of the time they

looked like they had a

paralyzed upper lip.

I think they could

have fixed it with CG.

 

 

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In a message dated 5/20/2005 7:34:47 P.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

I don't like it very much it doesn't make me want to throw up

 

It could have been decent if they made Leo less wooden,

and done more in editing.  Like cutting Limbo's one liners.

But I feel like I'm covering the same ground on this rant.

If they'd spent the time and money it would have been

passable.  But it needed a serious overhaul from page 1.

 

 

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Attachments :

.html.html In a message dated 5/20/2005 8:09:56 PM Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- In my opinion there should always be room for imagination and it
should be okay to expand on and maybe tweak some stuff slightly if not
the concept may very well become stagnant and die.

What I stated was in reference to the movie PLANET only, not any of the sequels, TV projects, etc. The movie of PLANET doesn't need to be messed with...

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