.html

In a message dated 6/14/2005 11:32:41 P.M. Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Anyway, the people at the top make money. - - - Jeff

 

If I'm going to make money anyway, I think I'd rather

be know as a maker of quality motion pictures than

a schlock meister and a crap hound.

 

 

<.html

You can INVADE! INVADE! INVADE! and destroy those lousy human
bastards who are too lazy to create their own work... or you can let
us true fans know things like this have, and are happening so the
credit is not completly taken from the people who have put so much
work into what little Planet of the Apes stuff is left on the web.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil T Foster" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...>
> wrote:
> > The strip MUST have been "stolen" from the group and then sent
around
> by thieves claiming to have drawn and authored them.
>
> -- A fair bit of other 'stuff' has also been 'stolen' from this
group as
> well. For example whilst looking through another site's stuff I
noticed
> something of mine.
>
> A TV show map they are using is a version of the map that John
> Oberhauser put together from screen grabs.
> Unfortunately the version they are using is not John's original but
a
> version of a picture that I created and fixed up, removing the
obvious
> joins and extensively changing the table top:
>
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/cGGvQnkdQpFka9gig32kP7UPi0GUSTQETQxzXaYpr
My
> xmSKqPOscAaEEA_5SPXO2bIxfKOD9diV1gteUS1pu/Urko%27s%20wall%20map.jpg
> I even had the decency to ask permission from John, here on this
group,
> if I could alter his image.
> (Post #23428:
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/23428>
> http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/message/23428 )
>
> My version, which involved a lot of hard work, was only made
available
> (in the files section) to the members of the PotaDG on the 20th of
> December 2004. Somehow since then it seems to have made it's way to
this
> other site without my permission being sought.
> When I asked politely that it be removed the owner replied
that "FOX is
> the true owners of everything POTA and thus nothing created by a fan
> from their copyright can truely be owned by that fan" and of course
> refused my request, so what can you do?
>
>
> Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> But it all adds up to making us what and who we are as fans. All

these views (and lack thereof) and the reasons for this create the
rich tapestry of being a POTA fan.

-- Bugger all the pseudo intellectual claptrap, I just like POTA
movies 'cos they got talking monkeys in 'em! ;-)

Neil

.html
-- <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Speaking of people squabbling etc..did you hear Pink Floyd are

playing Live 8?

-- Oh Pink Floyd, for a moment there I thought you wrote Punk Floyd
(with the legendary Dirk McQuickly) were playing. Bummer.

Neil

The outcome is we have

> made the groups an annoying political game instead of something fun

and this

> has personified many of the morals to the POTA stories in a very

ironic

> manner.
>

Hey, it may not be really Planet of the Apes related but it makes for
some fun reading. Its like a warped SciFi geek version of a soap
opera... or wrestling.

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 5:29 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] Hey Jeff.....

Speaking of people squabbling etc….did you hear Pink Floyd are playing Live 8?

Michael

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 5:17 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Check out Point Dume SB

In a message dated 6/15/05 8:07:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, darios@... writes:

I was under the impression that while it is true that the absolute final shot was a matte, the preceeding shot from above the crown was created with a scaffold mounted partial model of the statue crown (in a delapidated state of course). I think that it was in "Legend of the POTA"  (Pendrei) that this was explained.

Dario

Yes, that is true.  The top of the torch was shown that way too.

-- Rory

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/15/2005 7:28:45 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Well, with the exception of Veetus bragging about his sexual conquest of the Planet of the Trundy! 

Let's hear about that.

It might make a good comic.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/15/2005 7:39:09 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Yeah but you are a man of honour, my lord!

 

I try.  But if I could get a decent POTA film made

by kicking a Fox Exec in the nuts, I'm not above that.

I can think of a few that are ripe for a game of Roshambo

 

<.html

.html
-- <.html

.html
-- <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Dario Sciola <darios@n...> wrote:

> I was under the impression that while it is true that the absolute

final shot was a matte, the preceeding shot from above the crown was
created with a scaffold mounted partial model of the statue crown (in
a delapidated state of course). I think that it was in "Legend of the
POTA" (Pendrei) that this was explained.

-- And didn't Bill Creber explain all this in the Behind documentary
as well?

Neil

Attachments :

.html <.html

Attachments :

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:58 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Did you say "Kicking"? I first read that as "Licking"!  :-)

 

-- Speaking of Fox execs, I found this photo of one the other day that explains everything! ;-)

 

 

 

Neil

<.html

What do you mean 'all hype like wrestling'?
Hey, you don't mean that....
... you're not saying.....
...............it can't be!

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

All those years of my life thinking it was all real!

Next thing you're going to tell me is all the stuff I see in the
movies ain't real either!

Dario

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I wish it was all hype like wrestling!
>

Hmmm. I never got around to getting the 35th anniversary edition
since so much of it was rejurgitated material, with the Goldsmith
interview being the noted exception.
But if Roddy's movies show this kind of stuff, then I'm gonna get it
too. (It was just a matter of time anyway....)

Thanks for pointing it out, Jeff.

Dario

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> This is easy to see in Roddy's home movies on the 35th
anniversary DVD. - - - Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Haristas@a...
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 5:17 AM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Check out Point Dume SB
>
>
> In a message dated 6/15/05 8:07:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
darios@n... writes:
>
>
>
> I was under the impression that while it is true that the
absolute final shot was a matte, the preceeding shot from above the
crown was created with a scaffold mounted partial model of the
statue crown (in a delapidated state of course). I think that it was
in "Legend of the POTA" (Pendrei) that this was explained.
>
> Dario
>
>
>
> Yes, that is true. The top of the torch was shown that way too.
>
> -- Rory
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> Hey, that's actually a photo of me!

-- Oh right. So that's how the weight loss program works then? :-D

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dario
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:42 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Breaking News - Comics on the way!

What do you mean 'all hype like wrestling'?
Hey, you don't mean that....
... you're not saying.....
...............it can't be!

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

All those years of my life thinking it was all real!

Next thing you're going to tell me is all the stuff I see in the
movies ain't real either!

Dario


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I wish it was all hype like wrestling!

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Dario" <darios@n...> wrote:

> NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

All those years of my life thinking it was all real!
Next thing you're going to tell me is all the stuff I see in the
movies ain't real either!

-- I'm afraid that's true Dario. Those are not real talking apes in
the POTA movies, they are human actors wearing makeup. Honest!

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:47 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:
> Hey, that's actually a photo of me!

-- Oh right. So that's how the weight loss program works then? :-D

Neil

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 7:52 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Breaking News - Comics on the way!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Dario" <darios@n...> wrote:
> NOOOOOOOOOOOO!
All those years of my life thinking it was all real!
Next thing you're going to tell me is all the stuff I see in the
movies ain't real either!

-- I'm afraid that's true Dario. Those are not real talking apes in
the POTA movies, they are human actors wearing makeup. Honest!

Neil

<.html

.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 8:18 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Marvel UK Issue 35 - Beneath adaptation at last

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Greg Plonowski <urko3085@s...> wrote:
> For all who have been waiting since the end of the Planet adaptation in issue 11 to find out what happend to Taylor, Nova and their faithful horse, at long last we have reached the Marvel UK issues containing the Beneath adaptation.
For the next twelve weeks you'll be able to admire the stunning art of Alfredo Alcala. Enjoy!

 

-- Thanks again Greg.
I still remember the thrill I got when I opened up this comic all those years ago and first laid eyes on that beautiful art by Alfredo. It started a life long love for me of his artwork. A true master of the medium!

 

Neil

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> How OLD are those mutants?

-- That's an interesting question. Has the radiation exposure affected
their life span?
In Beneath we don't get to see any really old mutants, or maybe some
of them are but they disguise the fact with those 'wrinkle free' masks
(easier than surgery!).
I have seen photos with mutant children in them though I can't
remember if there are actually any that made it into the final film or
not, I think they may have been deleted scenes but as I haven't
watched it for such a long time I can't recall.

Neil

.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 8:59 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Marvel UK Issue 35 - Beneath adaptation at last

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:
> How OLD are those mutants?

-- That's an interesting question. Has the radiation exposure affected
their life span?
In Beneath we don't get to see any really old mutants, or maybe some
of them are but they disguise the fact with those 'wrinkle free' masks
(easier than surgery!).
I have seen photos with mutant children in them though I can't
remember if there are actually any that made it into the final film or
not, I think they may have been deleted scenes but as I haven't
watched it for such a long time I can't recall.

Neil

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 9:11 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Ape Mask

Now this is just bizarre:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36565&item=5982059656&rd=1

 

An ape mask for action figures? Why? And what next?!

 

Neil

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> And about the masks - do they take a basic head mould then shape a

face from it?

-- Well that would explain the Don Pedro Colley mutant. His mask's
skin colour would have to have been influenced by the facial features
wouldn't they?

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 9:35 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Marvel UK Issue 35 - Beneath adaptation at last

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:
> And about the masks - do they take a basic head mould then shape a
face from it?

-- Well that would explain the Don Pedro Colley mutant. His mask's
skin colour would have to have been influenced by the facial features
wouldn't they?

Neil

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@y...> wrote:

> can you create a databank on the group site?

-- Tim, there is a Database feature (see the group links on the left
of the DG homepage) that any group member can add stuff to, not sure
if this is the sort of thing you were thinking about though?

Neil

.html.html In a message dated 6/15/05 7:22:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

And about the masks - do they take a basic head mould then shape a face from it?  The more you think about it, the more problems you get....

Maybe they are all 500 years old.......


The Roswell aliens made their masks while they traveled the timeloop, baby!

LET'S DO THE TIMELOOP AGAIN!

It's just a jump to the left!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Whitty, Michael

To: 'PotaDG@yahoogroups.com'

Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 2:20 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

Hey, that's actually a photo of me!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:58 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Did you say "Kicking"? I first read that as "Licking"!  :-)

 

-- Speaking of Fox execs, I found this photo of one the other day that explains everything! ;-)

 

 

 

Neil

<.html

.html

Do we have any new flyers to put out at the Con in San Diego. I did it last year, I want to do it again for this year convention.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of veetus@...
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:56 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

   You guys think this is funny, huh? I don't believe Adam Sandler has landed on the POTA yet! - - - Rupert Murdoch

  P.S.: We hope you will all enjoy "Fantastic Four" this summer. We are all very proud of it. Fox, as you know, means friendship.

----- Original Message -----

From: Whitty, Michael

To: 'PotaDG@yahoogroups.com'

Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 2:20 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

Hey, that's actually a photo of me!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:58 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Did you say "Kicking"? I first read that as "Licking"!  :-)

 

-- Speaking of Fox execs, I found this photo of one the other day that explains everything! ;-)

 

 

Neil

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/15/2005 5:28:24 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

When one dies, do they pass on his mask to someone else?

No, those are form fitting (face fitting) masks... They aren't interchangeable.<.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Whitty, Michael

To: 'PotaDG@yahoogroups.com'

Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 8:58 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

I was kinda looking forward to FF - is it crap Jeff?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of veetus@...
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:56 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

   You guys think this is funny, huh? I don't believe Adam Sandler has landed on the POTA yet! - - - Rupert Murdoch

  P.S.: We hope you will all enjoy "Fantastic Four" this summer. We are all very proud of it. Fox, as you know, means friendship.

----- Original Message -----

From: Whitty, Michael

To: 'PotaDG@yahoogroups.com'

Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 2:20 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

Hey, that's actually a photo of me!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:58 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Did you say "Kicking"? I first read that as "Licking"!  :-)

 

-- Speaking of Fox execs, I found this photo of one the other day that explains everything! ;-)

 

 

Neil

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:06 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Marvel UK Issue 35 - Beneath adaptation at last

In a message dated 6/15/2005 5:28:24 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

When one dies, do they pass on his mask to someone else?

No, those are form fitting (face fitting) masks... They aren't interchangeable.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of veetus@...
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:21 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

   I don't know if it's crap. Looks like "X-Men" (big surprise).

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of veetus@...
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:21 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

But I saw Terry Gilliam's "The Bros. Grimm" a year ago and they're finally releasing it. It wasn't very good, it was supposed to come out last year. Gilliam has 2 movies coming out this year so maybe he'll be saved.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of veetus@...
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:21 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

 Gilliam has 2 movies coming out this year so maybe he'll be saved. Tim Burton (remember him?) has two movies this year as well, "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" and the stop-motion "The Corpse Bride" ("Nightmare Before Christmas" meets Johnny Depp). At least he's back to doing what he does best. - - - Jeff

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/15/2005 11:06:22 P.M. Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

I saw Terry Gilliam's "The Bros. Grimm" a year ago and they're finally releasing it. It wasn't very good

 

Yeah, I like a lot of his stuff, but then there's the Jabberwoky.

Only Terry Jones' Eric The Viking comes close to it's badness.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/15/2005 11:17:13 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I like most of his stuff, but I am yet to survive the entire "The Fisher King".

 

Mixed feelings about that one, and Brazil.

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 2:41 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

In a message dated 6/15/2005 11:17:13 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I like most of his stuff, but I am yet to survive the entire "The Fisher King".

 

Mixed feelings about that one, and Brazil.

<.html

When I saw the first trailer, I thought it had hope, be recently, I've
begun to have my doubts.

The film was originally supposed to be out in 2006, but here we are
mid-2005 and it's just about to premier. Rushed job?

Here in Canada, when you go to a movie theater you can pick up copies
of "Preview" magazine that basically who upcoming movies. Last week,
when I went, Fantastic 4 was featured in the Preview magazine, but not
the regular one, the "Preview for Kids" edition.

The latest teasers/trailers have not shown anything new or exciting.
The more I look at them, the more I get the feeling that this is
a 'goofy' take on the F4 and not the more serious and well thought out
scripts we've seen in the Spiderman, X-Men franchises.

Gonna have to get some positive feedback on this one before I plunk
down my $$$ on it.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@...>
Date: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:58 pm
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?

> I was kinda looking forward to FF - is it crap Jeff?
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On
> Behalf Of
> veetus@...
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:56 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?
>
>
> You guys think this is funny, huh? I don't believe Adam Sandler has
> landed on the POTA yet! - - - Rupert Murdoch
> P.S.: We hope you will all enjoy "Fantastic Four" this summer.
> We are all
> very proud of it. Fox, as you know, means friendship.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Whitty, Michael <mailto:Michael.Whitty@...>
> To: 'PotaDG@yahoogroups.com' <mailto:' PotaDG@yahoogroups.com'>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 2:20 PM
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?
>
> Hey, that's actually a photo of me!
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PotaDG@yahoogroups.com >
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:58 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PotaDG@yahoogroups.com > ,
> "MichaelWhitty" < whitty@c <mailto:whitty@c> ...> wrote:
> > Did you say "Kicking"? I first read that as "Licking"! :-)
>
> -- Speaking of Fox execs, I found this photo of one the other day
that
> explains everything! ;-)
>
>
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>

Hmmm. I never got around to getting the 35th anniversary edition since
so much of it was rejurgitated material, with the Goldsmith interview
being the noted exception.
But if Roddy's movies show this kind of stuff, then I'm gonna get it
too. (It was just a matter of time anyway....)

Thanks for pointing it out, Jeff.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: veetus@...
Date: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 10:28 am
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Check out Point Dume SB

> This is easy to see in Roddy's home movies on the 35th
> anniversary DVD. - - - Jeff
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Haristas@...
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 5:17 AM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Check out Point Dume SB
>
>
> In a message dated 6/15/05 8:07:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> darios@... writes:
>
>
>
> I was under the impression that while it is true that the
> absolute final shot was a matte, the preceeding shot from above
> the crown was created with a scaffold mounted partial model of the
> statue crown (in a delapidated state of course). I think that it
> was in "Legend of the POTA" (Pendrei) that this was explained.
>
> Dario
>
>
>
> Yes, that is true. The top of the torch was shown that way too.
>
> -- Rory
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
>
>

What do you mean 'all hype like wrestling'?
Hey, you don't mean that....
... you're not saying.....
...............it can't be!

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

All those years of my life thinking it was all real!

Next thing you're going to tell me is all the stuff I see in the
movies ain't real either!

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Whitty <whitty@...>

> I wish it was all hype like wrestling!
> >

Has everyone seen the latest Within strip (#40) who wants to? If not
speak up now...

Neil

.html

I do! I want to see it

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of PofTAfan@...
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 12:22 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Waiting for Within

I do! I want to see it

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/16/2005 9:28:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

On the way!

Have I seen this, or is there a newer new one?

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 1:45 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Waiting for Within

In a message dated 6/16/2005 9:28:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

On the way!

Have I seen this, or is there a newer new one?

 

This one looks really bad. The Thing looks just like the alien from
the 80's classic "The Last Starfighter." Don't get me wrong, I loved
that movie when I was younger but haven't we made some great strides
in movie effects since then? My son really wants to see it so I guess
I'm doomed. Batman Begins was everything I had hoped for. We saw it
yesterday and it will make sure (not that it was needing a whole lot
of help) that the Batman franchise will continue to boom. They
brought Batman back to that dark, exciting, and emotional place he
should have never strayed from... now if they can only find someone
to do this for Planet of the Apes.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@n...> wrote:
> When I saw the first trailer, I thought it had hope, be recently,
I've
> begun to have my doubts.
>
> The film was originally supposed to be out in 2006, but here we are
> mid-2005 and it's just about to premier. Rushed job?
>
> Here in Canada, when you go to a movie theater you can pick up
copies
> of "Preview" magazine that basically who upcoming movies. Last
week,
> when I went, Fantastic 4 was featured in the Preview magazine, but
not
> the regular one, the "Preview for Kids" edition.
>
> The latest teasers/trailers have not shown anything new or
exciting.
> The more I look at them, the more I get the feeling that this is
> a 'goofy' take on the F4 and not the more serious and well thought
out
> scripts we've seen in the Spiderman, X-Men franchises.
>
> Gonna have to get some positive feedback on this one before I plunk
> down my $$$ on it.
>
> Dario
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
> Date: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 11:58 pm
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?
>
> > I was kinda looking forward to FF - is it crap Jeff?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ]On
> > Behalf Of
> > veetus@e...
> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:56 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?
> >
> >
> > You guys think this is funny, huh? I don't believe Adam Sandler
has
> > landed on the POTA yet! - - - Rupert Murdoch
> > P.S.: We hope you will all enjoy "Fantastic Four" this summer.
> > We are all
> > very proud of it. Fox, as you know, means friendship.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Whitty, Michael <mailto:Michael.Whitty@d...>
> > To: 'PotaDG@yahoogroups.com' <mailto:' PotaDG@yahoogroups.com'>
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 2:20 PM
> > Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?
> >
> > Hey, that's actually a photo of me!
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PotaDG@yahoogroups.com >
> > [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
> > Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:58 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PotaDG@yahoogroups.com >
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Who is the villain at Fox?
> >
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PotaDG@yahoogroups.com > ,
> > "MichaelWhitty" < whitty@c <mailto:whitty@c> ...> wrote:
> > > Did you say "Kicking"? I first read that as "Licking"! :-)
> >
> > -- Speaking of Fox execs, I found this photo of one the other day
> that
> > explains everything! ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> >
> >

.html

In a message dated 6/16/2005 11:03:45 P.M. Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

They brought Batman back to that dark, exciting, and emotional place he
should have never strayed from... now if they can only find someone
to do this for Planet of the Apes.

Hmmmm . . Who directed the original Batman again?

 

 

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "John" <DrZaiusDavis@a...> wrote:

> This one looks really bad. The Thing looks just like the alien from

the 80's classic "The Last Starfighter." Don't get me wrong, I loved
that movie when I was younger but haven't we made some great strides
in movie effects since then?

--I saw an ad for it today and to me it looks like, for some reason,
they have tried to give the Thing the look he had in the very early FF
comics drawn by Jack Kirby before he refined the look and gave him a
more defined rock like appearance'

>My son really wants to see it so I guess I'm doomed.

-- My kids want to see it now too and it doesn't help that toy shop
brochures are already pushing the toys based on the movie characters!

Neil

Sounds great, Greg!

Patrick


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Greg Plonowski wrote:
> Patrick:
>
> Sure, I'll make the screen grabs available. There's a bit too many
to fit in the group files, but I discussed it with Hunter and he's
agreed to host them on his site, although it will probably just be
for a limited amount of time. I'll need a few days to pull them off
the discs where I have them archived, and I'll need to convert them
from bitmaps to jpegs so the files are more reasonably sized.
>
> I'll make an announcement when they're available to download.
>
> Greg

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Uncle Manny's Musings/UMM 13.jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description : Scroll 13

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Uncle%20Manny%27s%20Musings/UMM%2013.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

Thanks for making these available. I can never have too many Apes
pics taking up room on my computer. :)

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Greg Plonowski <urko3085@s...> wrote:
> The screen grabs I did for the card sets are now available to
download from Hunter's site. He's compressed them into zip files, one
for each film. In each set, the first 44 grabs correspond to the
cards, so you can see the original uncropped image for each card.
After that are the grabs I didn't use, in roughly the order in which
the images appeared in the film. The grabs are in 'widescreen' except
except for the images for the 44th card of each set, which are full-
frame grabs from supplemental DVD materials. The grabs for Battle
will also be made available after I've finished that set.
>
> http://www.goatley.com/pota/
>
> Greg
>
> patrickmichaeltilton <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> Sounds great, Greg!
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Greg Plonowski wrote:
> > Patrick:
> >
> > Sure, I'll make the screen grabs available. There's a bit too
many
> to fit in the group files, but I discussed it with Hunter and he's
> agreed to host them on his site, although it will probably just be
> for a limited amount of time. I'll need a few days to pull them off
> the discs where I have them archived, and I'll need to convert them
> from bitmaps to jpegs so the files are more reasonably sized.
> >
> > I'll make an announcement when they're available to download.
> >
> > Greg

I'm not saying I didn't like Burton's Batman, but this movie
completely starts over with no referance to any of the previous films
and it is not campy in anyway. Its a much darker and more serious film
than even Burton's vision, yet it still plays as a fun action movie.
This is what they need to do with Planet of the Apes. A "do-over!" Go
back to a more classic based storyline and pretend the Tim Burton try
didn't count. Its going to save and regenerate the Batman franchise
and it could do the same for Planet of the Apes.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/16/2005 11:03:45 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> DrZaiusDavis@a... writes:
>
> They brought Batman back to that dark, exciting, and emotional
place he
> should have never strayed from... now if they can only find someone
> to do this for Planet of the Apes.
>
>
>
> Hmmmm . . Who directed the original Batman again?

.html

What I really wish is that 20th Century Fox would get off their collective
ass and do a final, super duper, balls to the wall, everything plus the Kitchen
Sink boxed set of Planet of the Apes. Not the Tim Burton Abortion, but the
original Five, Planet, Beneath, Escape, Conquest, Battle. And I want the
unedited, uncut version of battle. As well as all the unused footage (did they
ever film the opening inside the spaceship scene for Escape? If so, where the
hell is it?). I know that Cesars big emotion scene after Armando was killed was
actually part of the "Ape trying to escape the city" scene that was the
original opening of Conquest. I'd also like to see the uncut Apes Rampage from
Conquest which would have gotten it an R rating. I want all the commercials,
trailers and even the printed ads. Anyone else remember the cool faux newspaper

print ads for Conquest? Or the ones for Escape which proclaimed that Baby
Milo has Washington terrified? Well it's time for 20th Century to come clean
and bring out the big guns. Like Lucas did with the Star Wars Trilogy (and even

that could have some more). I want my Apes complete and I want them NOW!!!!
Damn you 20th Century Fox, DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!

 

"WILL THE WIND EVER REMEMBER, THE NAMES IT HAS BLOWN IN THE PAST
AND WITH ITS CRUTCH ITS OLD AGE AND ITS WISDOM, IT WHISPERS NO ,"THIS WILL BE THE LAST"

- Jimi Hendrix 'The Wind Cries Mary'

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> No, those are form fitting (face fitting) masks... They aren't

interchangeable.

-- Why do they bother with the hassle of the masks anyway? Why are
they that bothered by their appearance when they are all have the same
skin problem anyway?

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Mithril1960@a... wrote:

> What I really wish is that 20th Century Fox would get off their

collective ass and do a final, super duper, balls to the wall,
everything plus the Kitchen Sink boxed set of Planet of the Apes.

-- And they should also team up with Marvel (or whoever owns the
rights to their old comic adaptations these days) and release a
Graphic Novel containing all the movie strips but have them coloured
(using the proper colours for the clothes etc.)

Neil

.html

In a message dated 6/17/2005 6:31:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

This is what they need to do with Planet of the Apes. A "do-over!" Go
back to a more classic based storyline and pretend the Tim Burton try
didn't count

 

That's what I've been saying.  Forget that film. 

Some people want to be able to take their kids to it.

That's certainly fine but don't dumb it down for them.

And don't go for a G rating.  There was never a G

movie like Apes and there never will be again.  You

just don't have G movies with bare-assed shots,

lobotomies, forced mating, bloody gun shots to

the throat and thermonuclear world destruction.

And yet some people still want to turn it into

am "Oh look at the talking monkeys" picture,

with some racial and animal rights overtones.

The first film was never meant to be a kid's

matinee.  And the new ones should be a

serious movie for adults.  But all those

Hollywood Hacks see are the $'s from

the Finding Nemo crowd flying away.

I don't think it soul be a "dump the

kids off for a few hours for less

than cost of a babysitter" kind

of movie.  Not with these

issues.  Make it an R

movie. So if kids go

parents can explain

it to them.

 

 

<.html

.html
-- <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 7:51 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: F4 (OT)

In a message dated 6/17/2005 6:31:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

This is what they need to do with Planet of the Apes. A "do-over!" Go
back to a more classic based storyline and pretend the Tim Burton try
didn't count

 

That's what I've been saying.  Forget that film. 

Some people want to be able to take their kids to it.

That's certainly fine but don't dumb it down for them.

And don't go for a G rating.  There was never a G

movie like Apes and there never will be again.  You

just don't have G movies with bare-assed shots,

lobotomies, forced mating, bloody gun shots to

the throat and thermonuclear world destruction.

And yet some people still want to turn it into

am "Oh look at the talking monkeys" picture,

with some racial and animal rights overtones.

The first film was never meant to be a kid's

matinee.  And the new ones should be a

serious movie for adults.  But all those

Hollywood Hacks see are the $'s from

the Finding Nemo crowd flying away.

I don't think it soul be a "dump the

kids off for a few hours for less

than cost of a babysitter" kind

of movie.  Not with these

issues.  Make it an R

movie. So if kids go

parents can explain

it to them.

 

 

<.html

.html <.html

Has anyone else had problems with the screen grabs from Hunter's site?
All three films worth of zip files keep showing an invalid archive
message. I've tried to use both WinZip and WinWar with the same
results. I even deleted them and tried to download them again with the
same results.

.html.html But, will it be just a teaser?

DarkHorizons.com posted this news earlier: Universal will present an unprecedented motion picture preview "roadblock" as all nine of its networks simultaneously telecast the world premiere of the first trailer for Universal Pictures' "King Kong," On Monday, June 27, from 8:59:30-9:02 PM ET. ***********************************
NBC -- immediately following "Fear Factor" USA Network -- immediately following "Law & Order: SVU SCI FI Channel -- immediately following "Stargate-SG1" Bravo -- immediately following "West Wing" Universal HD -- immediately following "Airport '77" MSNBC -- immediately following "Countdown with Keith Olberman" CNBC -- immediately following "Cover to Cover" Telemundo -- immediately following "La Mujer en el Espejo" Mun2 -- premiere during the two-hour block of "The Roof."




<.html<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ; pota@yahoogroups.com ; sciencefictiongroup@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:57 PM

Subject: [Planet of the Apes] Kong trailer is coming!!!

But, will it be just a teaser?

DarkHorizons.com posted this news earlier: Universal will present an unprecedented motion picture preview "roadblock" as all nine of its networks simultaneously telecast the world premiere of the first trailer for Universal Pictures' "King Kong," On Monday, June 27, from 8:59:30-9:02 PM ET. ***********************************
NBC -- immediately following "Fear Factor" USA Network -- immediately following "Law & Order: SVU SCI FI Channel -- immediately following "Stargate-SG1" Bravo -- immediately following "West Wing" Universal HD -- immediately following "Airport '77" MSNBC -- immediately following "Countdown with Keith Olberman" CNBC -- immediately following "Cover to Cover" Telemundo -- immediately following "La Mujer en el Espejo" Mun2 -- premiere during the two-hour block of "The Roof."






Be sure to visit the Group's Internal Website http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm for Original POTA One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much more...

<.html

.html <.html

Has anyone else had problems with the screen grabs from Hunter's site?
All three films worth of zip files keep showing an invalid archive
message. I've tried to use both WinZip and WinWar with the same
results. I even deleted them and tried to download them again with the
same results.





Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

<*>
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"

<Michael.Whitty@d...>

> wrote:
> > Here's a link to Patricks group for those who want to know why Rory
> is upset!
>
> -- Well I have checked this 'discussion' out and I now have a raging
> headache! :-)
>
> Patrick does come up with some very detailed and well thought out
> ideas though and even manages to get the words 'ejaculated semen'

into a POTA discussion, well done!

>
> Neil

------------------------------------------------------------


*** Well, it's a fact that Zira got preggers with Cornelius' "hot and
eager help, of course..." isn't it? Zira must not have had a
headache... ;)

I think it's interesting that Baby Milo/Caesar -- a POTA Christ-figure
of sorts -- is born of a female who had not had sexual intercourse
prior to his birth in 1973, so that Zira was kinda/sorta a "virgin"
like the Virgin Mary. Of course, she DID have sex in the year 3955, and
then Time Travelled back to 1973 to have her kid. So, even though
Caesar was conceived through the natural process of sexual intercourse,
his mom literally didn't have sex "before" the date of his birth,
through the pseudo-miracle of Time Travel.

I wonder if Caesar ever allowed the Apes of his community (post-
CONQUEST and prior to BATTLE) to believe that his mother was literally
a Virgin who had conceived him. Did he also allow his fellow Apes to
believe that Breck actually did see him literally die? Sure, WE know
that MacDonald cut the power to the shock-table... and Caesar was
symbolically resurrected from the Dead... but since other apes are
present to hear Breck exclaim, "But I watched you DIE!!!" could it be
that Caesar is willing to make use of that BELIEF in his Death and
Resurrection so as to have some sort of "divine right" to rule the Apes
he leads to freedom?

Why DO the Apes make him their king? Or did HE make himself their king,
with any potential opposition to his rulership being quelched due to
some perceived "right" of his to rule over them?

MARVEL's "Quest for the Planet of the Apes" story, taking place after
the Nuke War and before "BATTLE" depicts Caesar and Aldo competing for
the "right" to rule the Apes (and Humans) living in the forested Ape
City. I don't consider that story by Doug Moench to be canon, mind you,
but it brings up the notion that Caesar being in charge during "BATTLE"
had to have had some prior moment where the Apes CHOSE him to be their
leader.

Sure, he spear-headed the organized overthrow of Breck's forces during
the events of "CONQUEST"... but does that mean that he thenceforth has
any "right" to lead the Apes later on? Or, is he exchanging one master
(Breck) for another, himself?

He himself tells (brother) MacDonald that "... with Apes in control,
the Earth will keep sailing through Space until the end of Time... and
Virgil says that Time has no end" etc etc. But Apes aren't in total
control -- HE is in control of the Apes (or, of most of 'em). Was he
elected their King?

"You don't VOTE for kings!"

"Well, how'd you get to be king, then?"

"The Lady of the Lake... her arm clad in most shimmering samite, thrust
upon the bosom of the water Excalibur... signifying that I, Arthur, am
to be King of the Britons."

"Strange women, lying in ponds and distributing swords is no basis for
a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate
from the masses! Not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!"

"Shut up!"

At the end of "BATTLE", Caesar indeed does have that "mandate from the
masses" to rule over the community. But how did he get it in the first
place? Just by being an effective war-leader, like Arthur (a "dux
bellorum" according to Nennius, if I remember rightly)?

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> I don't know, but like I said - to make it a credible scenario that

the mutants have masks....it really opens up a pandora's box!

*** Here's some speculations regarding the Mutants.

They're telepathic, right? They can read the minds of non-telepaths
like Brent, to a certain degree, right? The "Fat Man" (Victor Buono)
says to him, "You're lying!" and Brent responds, "How do you KNOW?
How do you always know?"

I once speculated that a purposely-told lie has, accompanying it, a
mind-set that is "bad-tasting" to the mind of a telepath, if you
compare the vibe of another being's thoughts to a taste-sensation.
When Brent tried to tell a lie, his mind was giving off a "bad-
tasting" vibe that the telepaths couldn't help but sense to be icky.

What about the thoughts of other Mutant telepaths? Can they block out
the telepathic intrusions of fellow telepaths? Or are they all at
each other's mercies, unable to keep their thoughts to themselves, in
private?

Perhaps most of the Mutants are "2nd Level" telepaths, and can read
the thoughts of other telepaths when those thoughts are willingly
shared... but a higher status "1st Level" telepath (like all the
Mendezes and the 4 other Inquisitors leading the community), perhaps,
can not only shield their own thoughts, to keep them private inside
their own heads, but they can read the thoughts of 2nd Level
telepaths at will. In other words, they would have an advantage over
the other Mutants, having higher powers. If you can keep others from
knowing your own thoughts, you have them at a disadvantage, since you
can read THEIR thoughts without them being able to stop you.

Another idea: how far back do the memories of these telepaths go? A
Mutant who lived centuries earlier might well have had his or her
mind read -- "downloaded" mentally -- by the Community, and those
memories could be passed down from Mind-to-Mind year after year.
Wouldn't this give them a collective "group-memory" extending back
all the way to the time when telepathy first emerged in their
population?

So, if the Mendez of "BATTLE" was a telepath (not that the movie
gives any indication -- this is just a speculation on my part), then
could Mendez XXVI retain the memories of his distant ancestor? Could
he "re-experience" the discussions Mendez had with Kolp?

Could a memory from long ago, passed on from Mind to Mind, ever
become perceptually altered? Some people seem to "remember" things
that never really happened to them, even though they believe they
experienced it (I'm thinking of Court-admissible testimony, stuff
like that, regarding things like childhood abuse that had
been "forgotten" and then brought back through hypnosis).

What if, say, Mendez III were to "mis-remember" an experience of his
predecessor, Mendez II, and yet believe that he is remembering it
rightly? Their conception of their Past would be altered based on a
flawed perception. And that flawed "memory" might be passed down --
altered again and again -- so that later generations of Mutants
believe things about their own Past that are at odds with reality,
but they trust their own Mental records, perhaps, more than they
should.

When Brent tells the Mutants that he came from Earth, from a time
period about 2,000 earlier, they >BEEP< into his head something that
prompts him to admit, "I know, I know it sounds insane... but it's my
insanity."

If they had accurate Mind-to-Mind memories of their Past, handed down
throughout the two millennia, then Brent's revelation that he came
from the time just prior to the Nuke War (which sent the Holy
Fallout, etc) wouldn't seem all that "insane" to them. Or shouldn't
seem insane. But their minds are twisted, of course, by their own
religious fanaticism. They worship the Bomb, after all. Their ability
to believe that it is their God (or at least His Instrument)
indicates that despite their telepathic abilities, they're also brain-
damaged in some way. It's no wonder they don't remember the true
Past, and probably have a distorted belief based on distorted mis-
remembered sensations from their distant ancestors.

Perhaps the religious feelings of one Mutant (Alma, perhaps) could so
effectively alter her own perceptions that her mindset took on
a "taste" that other minds of emergent telepaths considered "tasty".
Maybe that's how their Bomb-worshipping took root so indelibly. I can
imagine Alma -- having been on the verge of triggering the Doomsday
Bomb to fulfill Kolp's last wishes -- being steered by Mendez into
considering the Bomb to be a "holy" and "sacred" thing. Her mind is
fragile, at this point, and easily manipulated (like Obi Wan does
to "weaker" minds with his Jedi powers).

It's hinted (in Gerrold's novelization, anyway) that Kolp and Alma
had sex before he went on his invasion of Ape City. What if Alma is
pregnant when Mendez begins to steer her mind into accepting the
goofy notion that the Bomb is something worthy of worship?

If she, at that point, was beginning to experience telepathic
promptings from Mendez to give into the alluring notion of making the
Bomb their "God", perhaps that prompts her mind into a blossoming
telepathic state -- say, as a "3rd Level" telepath.

Imagine a mother-to-fetus mental bond. As the child grows within her
womb, what sort of kooky belief systems could be pre-programmed into
it, due to the fact that his own mother has a deranged mind? I can
imagine Alma imprinting her own madness onto the mind of her unborn
child... who then is born and grows up to be equally deranged.

As long as the person inculcating this Bomb-worshipping madness is a
telepath with superior powers to the rest, such an outcome -- mass-
madness -- is perhaps unavoidable. Mendez's desperation, to keep Alma
from detonating the Bomb, perhaps inadvertently causes Alma to take
to this new religion with TOO MUCH fervor. The idea of it spreads
from Mind to Mind like a wildfire. It "tastes" so good to these
wretched irradiated wraiths that they cling to it. It gives them a
sense of Meaning. A higher Purpose. They become "the Keepers of the
Divine Bomb" as Mendez XXVI refers to their group. Their only reason
for survival.

Just some thoughts...

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 6/14/05 1:15:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> It ain't a "fact" that Taylor would've had to gallop hundreds of

miles to get back to the Waterfall -- it's only your/Rory's
interpretation of the Map, and it's a bogus one, as far as I'm
concerned.

>

----------------------------------------------------------------

>> It's a fact that Taylor rides north along the Atlantic shore to

eventually find the statue,

*** I agree.

>> "... and no matter what the distance it places the "inland sea"

and the "greenbelts" inland west of the ocean and far south of the
ruins of NYC."

*** Again, I agree, though "far" south is stretching it. Not hundreds
of miles, necessarily, but SOUTH, sure.

>> What's bogus -- utterly bogus! -- is your POTA "scenario" with

its scatological explanations for the inconsistencies between the
films, and the entire notion that the series is a coherent "saga,"
which is entirely false since the both the original film and its
immediate sequel weren't made without any idea of a followup!

*** Here, of course, I do NOT agree. Scatological? Wha? As far as the
series being a "saga" (coherent or not), that's exactly what Dehn
intended -- reread page 211 of Russo & Landsman's "PLANET OF THE APES
REVISITED" to see Dehn's quote regarding the POTA series of movies as
a "saga" -- even as an "epic". My ideas serve only to make it all
more coherent (at least from my perspective) than it already is.

Sure, the 1st movie was made without any thought to there being a
sequel. So what? They made one anyway! When they blew up the planet
at the end of "BENEATH", did they have any thought THEN about making
any more sequels? Conventional wisdom has it that they DIDN'T, sure,
but how do we know this?

Dehn himself -- who wrote "BENEATH" -- also wrote "ESCAPE", etc. And
he established the existence of Zira's UNBORN CHILD in "BENEATH" when
he has her say "At least OUR child, when it's born, won't be breast-
fed on bile!"

Could it be that even as early as then he was contemplating the
notion of sending Zira and Cornelius AND THEIR UNBORN CHILD backwards
through Time, to OUR time, even before he'd finished
scripting "BENEATH"? Even if only sub-consciously?

Zira and Cornelius are married during the events of "BENEATH" --
their wedding having happened, presumably, some time in-between
Taylor seeing the Statue during the Opening Credits and the next time
we see the apes, at the meeting of the Citizens' Council.

Either Zira didn't have sex with Cornelius until AFTER their wedding,
which would have to mean that when he wrote "BENEATH" Dehn didn't
know he'd be sending them back to 1973 in the next sequel... OR Zira
had PRE-MARITAL sex with Cornelius MONTHS before we first see her
in "PLANET", when she first sees Taylor getting a blood transfusion.

Remember that surreptitious kiss Zira and Cornelius share, the first
time Cornelius appears in "PLANET"?

"Do you have to work tonight?"

"No."

"Neither do I."

>SMOOCH SMOOCH SMOOCH<

"Oh Cornelius!"

Remember how they nervously look around, to see if anybody's
watching, before they kiss each other with hot monkey passion?

Perhaps they've been "immorally" and "illegally" enjoying pre-marital
sex for some time, now. Violating the religion-based "moral taboos"
against such salacious conduct. I wouldn't put it past these two
liberal chimps, who've already indicated a willingness to question
the official "Party Line" dogmas in their professional careers.

There's enough of a hint in "PLANET" that Zira has had sex with her
fiancee, and that she knew she was already pregnant by Cornelius
BEFORE they got married.

Thus, when she gives birth in "ESCAPE" well less than 9 months of
personal "self-time" after her wedding, it all calls into question
just exactly what Dehn was suggesting earlier, when she references
her pregnancy in "BENEATH".

I think it's possible that Dehn -- even before they started
filming "BENEATH" -- had the idea of making an Epic out of the POTA
series. The 1st film did so well that they were making a 2nd one...
and perhaps he felt that a 3rd one -- if it was ingenious enough --
would definitely get made if the 2nd one did well at the Box Office.

"BENEATH" did well enough to warrant another sequel... and, lo and
behold, Dehn just happens to be able to crank out a wonderful script
centering on Zira and Cornelius AND THEIR UNBORN CHILD... whose birth
leads to the final stories in the Saga. How convenient.

I think it's possible -- even probable -- that Dehn had already
thought through the scope of the eventually-filmed Saga WHEN HE WAS
SCRIPTING "BENEATH". Considering how well the sequels DO run
together, all being a sort of post-Modern "mock" Epic with Caesar as
the "Epic Hero" figure in it, it wouldn't surprise me in the
slightest if it were so.

>
> Face it, Patrick... You're a POTA CLOWN!
>
> -- Rory

*** In Shakespeare's "KING LEAR", the Clown/Fool character is even
wiser than the king he serves. And in Asimov's "FOUNDATION" trilogy,
a "Clown"-figure nicknamed "the Mule" almost establishes a rulership
over the entire post-Empire galaxy. Sometimes it ain't so bad to be a
clown...

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> I wonder if Caesar ever allowed the Apes of his community (post-

CONQUEST and prior to BATTLE) to believe that his mother was
literally a Virgin who had conceived him. Did he also allow his
fellow Apes to believe that Breck actually did see him literally die?

-- This could be an interesting storyline to pursue. What if a
combination of his power, the death of his son and him killing
another ape sent him 'over the top' into insanity and he started to
believe himself that he was some sort of messiah, what sort of
outrageous things would he be prepared to do in the name of the one
true ape religion - the cult of Caesar.
(He's not the messiah! he's just a naughty little chimp...);-)

> "The Lady of the Lake... her arm clad in most shimmering samite,

thrust upon the bosom of the water Excalibur... signifying that I,
Arthur, am to be King of the Britons."

-- Look just because some watery tart lobs a scimitar at you is no
basis for government... oops, better stop right now, it's getting
silly... :-)

Neil

.html.html In a message dated 6/18/05 8:11:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

As for the original on DVD, word is that it will include all the censored scenes, including Fay Wray stripped. And Peter Jackson will take part in some featurettes, including a tour of his Kong collection. But there's a rumor going around that they found the long lost "spider pit" sequence. That's not true.

All of the censored scenes were restored way back in that "Year of the Monkey" 1968, and all the cassettes, laserdiscs and DVDs (from other countries) include them.

Yes, that "spider pit" scene actually never made it to the final release version in 1933, and the negatives were destroyed over sixty ago!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/18/05 10:17:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

As far as the
series being a "saga" (coherent or not), that's exactly what Dehn
intended

DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL, PATRICK!!!

Let's get this straight...

DEHN IS NOT POTA!!!!

BOULLE IS POTA.  SERLING AND WILSON ARE POTA.

Dehn is second generation, second string, campy and INFERIOR POTA!

He's just one rung above the third generation, third rate POTA TV show!

Dehn..... Phooey on that pestilence!

-- Rory<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> Let's get this straight...

DEHN IS NOT POTA!!!!
BOULLE IS POTA. SERLING AND WILSON ARE POTA.
Dehn is second generation, second string, campy and INFERIOR POTA!
He's just one rung above the third generation, third rate POTA TV show!

-- Oh dear, here we go again! So just what is POTA?

Pity Will Hoover isn't around on the group anymore, I'm sure he would
tell us all what IS and isn't Planet of the Apes.

Neil

.html.html In a message dated 6/18/05 11:58:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Oh dear, here we go again! So just what is POTA?

First, POTA is the Boulle book.  Second, it is the 1968 Science Fiction film classic.  These are the only things "POTA" that really matter.

Everything else -- the sequels, TV shows, remake, comics, toys, etc. -- are a substrata of the above.  They are on a lower evolutionary scale, as it were -- "Like something that fell out of a tree." 

Now for most of you it seems "All APES are created equal," but not for me.

Just call me a "POTA snob," but that's the way I see it.

-- Rory<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

>First, POTA is the Boulle book. Second, it is the 1968 Science

Fiction film classic. These are the only things "POTA" that really
matter.

-- This is what I don't understand. You say the original novel AND the
first movie are POTA and all that came after really isn't but to me
that book and the original movie are so very different from each other
that I can't class them as the same thing.

Neil

>First, POTA is the Boulle book. Second, it is the 1968 Science
> Fiction film classic. These are the only things "POTA" that really
> matter.
>
> -- This is what I don't understand. You say the original novel AND

the

> first movie are POTA and all that came after really isn't but to me
> that book and the original movie are so very different from each

other

> that I can't class them as the same thing.
>

I agree. Aside from talking Apes and a few character names, the first
film takes very little from the novel. To be such a purist that all
the sequals and those involved are lesser than those of the original
film seems wrong. To say Dehn was wrong to make the changes to the
story to fit his interpretation is unfair if it was O.K. for Franklin
Schaffner,Michael Wilson, Rod Serling and Arthur Jacobs to re-work the
novel into the film we love today. I find the film "Planet of the
Apes" to be far better than the novel "Monkey Planet" and I am
thankful for the changes that were made to create a far better story
than what we could have been given. I agree that none of the later
Apes projects can hold up to the original film, but to hate them just
because they were created after the original seems pointless.

.html.html In a message dated 6/19/05 1:38:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
>First, POTA is the Boulle book.  Second, it is the 1968 Science
Fiction film classic.  These are the only things "POTA" that really
matter.

-- This is what I don't understand. You say the original novel AND the
first movie are POTA and all that came after really isn't but to me
that book and the original movie are so very different from each other
that I can't class them as the same thing.

Neil

Well, yeah, one's a book, the other a movie.  Their relationship isn't much different from other novels and their cinematic adaptations, but I don't get what you mean by "I can't class them as the same thing."  For me, they're very similar, but like two different species of the same animal, like a gorilla and a chimp are both apes.

-- Rory

<.html<.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/19/05 2:28:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

I agree. Aside from talking Apes and a few character names, the first
film takes very little from the novel. To be such a purist that all
the sequals and those involved are lesser than those of the original
film seems wrong. To say Dehn was wrong to make the changes to the
story to fit his interpretation is unfair if it was O.K. for Franklin
Schaffner,Michael Wilson, Rod Serling and Arthur Jacobs to re-work the
novel into the film we love today. I find the film "Planet of the
Apes" to be far better than the novel "Monkey Planet" and I am
thankful for the changes that were made to create a far better story
than what we could have been given. I agree that none of the later
Apes projects can hold up to the original film, but to hate them just
because they were created after the original seems pointless.

I don't hate them, but I don't think they've held up very well over the decades at all.  Just read most of the comments left on websites like the Interet Movie Database and you'll see that the APES sequels are almost universally looked down upon as cheesy and crappy.

As far as the movie taking very little from the novel, I disagree.  The basic premise and theme is the same.  The book has three astronauts, the movie has three astronauts, the find a pool in the book, they find a pool in the movie, there's a hunt in the book, there's a hunt in the movie, we follow the fate of just one of the astronauts in the book, same in the movie, one astronaut is killed in the hunt in the book, same in the movie, one astronaut looses his mind in the book, same in the movie (though in a more Serling way), and the plot is basically the same, there's a visit to an archeological dig in both book and movie, and there's a talking doll in both.  Does that look to you like the movie takes very little from the book?

I think that Dehn was clever in what he did with the premise in ESCAPE, but BENEATH is simply a mess, and in CONQUEST Dehn coarsened and cheapened Boulle's premise.  BATTLE is a tired kiddy's film.  His sequels are full of inconsistencies, improbable coincidences and have over the years come to look very silly.  I don't hate them, but it's hard for me to like them much.

-- Rory <.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 7:19 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Rory vs Patrick & Pregnant Zira

In a message dated 6/19/05 2:28:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

I agree. Aside from talking Apes and a few character names, the first
film takes very little from the novel. To be such a purist that all
the sequals and those involved are lesser than those of the original
film seems wrong. To say Dehn was wrong to make the changes to the
story to fit his interpretation is unfair if it was O.K. for Franklin
Schaffner,Michael Wilson, Rod Serling and Arthur Jacobs to re-work the
novel into the film we love today. I find the film "Planet of the
Apes" to be far better than the novel "Monkey Planet" and I am
thankful for the changes that were made to create a far better story
than what we could have been given. I agree that none of the later
Apes projects can hold up to the original film, but to hate them just
because they were created after the original seems pointless.

I don't hate them, but I don't think they've held up very well over the decades at all.  Just read most of the comments left on websites like the Interet Movie Database and you'll see that the APES sequels are almost universally looked down upon as cheesy and crappy.

As far as the movie taking very little from the novel, I disagree.  The basic premise and theme is the same.  The book has three astronauts, the movie has three astronauts, the find a pool in the book, they find a pool in the movie, there's a hunt in the book, there's a hunt in the movie, we follow the fate of just one of the astronauts in the book, same in the movie, one astronaut is killed in the hunt in the book, same in the movie, one astronaut looses his mind in the book, same in the movie (though in a more Serling way), and the plot is basically the same, there's a visit to an archeological dig in both book and movie, and there's a talking doll in both.  Does that look to you like the movie takes very little from the book?

I think that Dehn was clever in what he did with the premise in ESCAPE, but BENEATH is simply a mess, and in CONQUEST Dehn coarsened and cheapened Boulle's premise.  BATTLE is a tired kiddy's film.  His sequels are full of inconsistencies, improbable coincidences and have over the years come to look very silly.  I don't hate them, but it's hard for me to like them much.

-- Rory

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/18/2005 9:17:43 P.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Thus, when she gives birth in "ESCAPE" well less than 9 months of
personal "self-time" after her wedding, it all calls into question
just exactly what Dehn was suggesting earlier, when she references
her pregnancy in "BENEATH".

 

Not really.  It's very easy to dispute just how much time passes.

After Taylor is captured in the market, the only sense of the

passage of time we get is when he says, "It's been weeks!"

That's really the only one I can think of off hand since they

talking about the many days and nights it took to cross the

desert.  Anything else is just a guess.  Just like the amount

of time he and Nova wandered the Zone before he was

captured.  All we know is they had food and water for 3 days.

Even the amount of time it took his throat to heal is just

a guess.  It had to be a couple months at least.

 

 

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/19/2005 10:04:31 A.M. Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

But I will give the filmmakers credit for taking the idea of talking apes seriously throughout and not turning it into parody like Burton's movie did.

 

The only hope for it is if the make a sequel that's half the novel

and half Escape.

 

 

<.html

.html.html For me it's been pretty plain since I first starting really looking at it in the early seventies that Cornelius' map in PLANET shows an area of the United States that was once the East coast.  At the end of the movie Taylor discovers the Statue of Liberty, so that pretty plain as to were we are, but what exact area?  Most POTA fans, to my great annoyance, seem to think it's the NYC area, mostly because of that awful mess of a sequel, BENEATH, but just sticking with the original film and the map that Cornelius holds up this is what I believe:

Patrick has conceded that it's obvious Taylor rides north along the shore at the end on the movie and then comes across the Statue.  Therefore, Cornelius' cave is south of where the Statue of Liberty is, along the Atlantic coast of the US

Working from that, we see on Cornelius' map, which he's obviously holding sideways so that what we now call north is in the direction that's right on the map that Cornelius holds up, a large inland body of water.  Where in the present day world is such a body of water on the East coast of the US?

I think it can only be Chesapeake Bay in the state of Virginia and Maryland.  Get a map of the US east coast and turn it sideways so that the Atlantic Ocean is south and see if you don't also see a similarity in the area of Chesapeake Bay and what is shown on Cornelius' map.  Further north from Chesapeake Bay there is Delaware Bay and that too could be what is called the "inland sea" or "dead lake" in PLANET, but if it where Delaware Bay, then Chesapeake Bay would still be there too, and that's not indicated on Cornelius' map.  I find it much more easy to imagine that the sea levels have dropped by the time of PLANET and that Delaware Bay is gone and that the "inland sea" is what's left of Chesapeake Bay.  For this reason I also find it very hard to believe that a new "inland sea" could have been created in an area of what is now New Jersey so that what's shown on Cornelius' map could be closer to the NYC area and make all you fans happy that want the things in BENEATH to makes sense and not be the plain goofs of Dehn that they are.

I would also like to remind everyone that it's plain that a terrible nuclear bombardment destroyed most of the surface area of the East coast 2000 years before what's shown in PLANET and turned the area to a desert wasteland.  I mention this because it then becomes obvious that it's very unlikely there'd be "greenbelts" of vegetation in these areas, which would clearly encompass all of what was New Jersey.  The "greenbelts" would most likely exist in areas that had escaped the original bombardment.

So, assuming that the "inland sea" is what's left of Chesapeake Bay, that would place the green areas shown on Cornelius' map in what is now the border area of Virginia and North Carolina, which is also just mountainous enough to match what we see in PLANET.

Get a map in check it out.

As to this creating distances too great to make sense, I again disagree.  I would say that Ape City is barely a hundred miles from the "inland sea" and around one hundred and twenty-five miles from the ocean coast.  I believe that astronauts could have trekked such a distance in the "many days and nights" that Taylor indicates, and that when Cornelius says it's "a three day ride across the desert," I don't find it hard to believe that a person on horseback could travel a hundred and twenty-five miles in three days.

As for where Cornelius' cave is on the East coast, I don't try to place it anywhere specifically, simply because there's no knowing for sure.  If you want to believe, like Patrick does, that after Taylor leaves with Nova from the cave and merely gallops up the beach a little distance to find the Statue, then that simply places Cornelius' cave further up the coast, perhaps along the Jersey shore.  Remember, Cornelius says that it's "a three day ride across the desert," but that doesn't indicate how much further they rode, once they crossed the desert to get to Cornelius' cave.  They could have ridden another day or two or three to get up the coast to where the cave is.

OK, Patrick ... now tell me where my reasoning is wrong?

-- Rory<.html<.html

.html.html I also want to add to what's below that it makes no sense, as Patrick proposes, that after Taylor sees the Statue of Liberty that he'd return to the rock pool near Ape City to retrieve his dog tags, only then to go all the way back to reach the NYC area.  That "scenario" is simply silly.  Also, none of the astronauts in PLANET seem to be wearing dog tags in the first place.  It's simply another of Dehn's many goofs in continuity in BENEATH, like the 3955 date, and having Brent come across the remains of a subway station in what was Queens, just outside the Ape City greenbelt -- what a goof!

-- Rory

For me it's been pretty plain since I first starting really looking at it in the early seventies that Cornelius' map in PLANET shows an area of the United States that was once the East coast.  At the end of the movie Taylor discovers the Statue of Liberty, so that it's pretty plain as to where we are, but what exact area?  Most POTA fans, to my great annoyance, seem to think it's the NYC area, mostly because of that awful mess of a sequel, BENEATH, but just sticking with the original film and the map that Cornelius holds up this is what I believe:

Patrick has conceded that it's obvious Taylor rides north along the shore at the end on the movie and then comes across the Statue.  Therefore, Cornelius' cave is south of where the Statue of Liberty is, along the Atlantic coast of the US

Working from that, we see on Cornelius' map, which he's obviously holding sideways so that what we now call north is in the direction that's right on the map that Cornelius holds up, a large inland body of water.  Where in the present day world is such a body of water on the East coast of the US?

I think it can only be Chesapeake Bay in the state of Virginia and Maryland.  Get a map of the US east coast and turn it sideways so that the Atlantic Ocean is south and see if you don't also see a similarity in the area of Chesapeake Bay and what is shown on Cornelius' map.  Further north from Chesapeake Bay there is Delaware Bay and that too could be what is called the "inland sea" or "dead lake" in PLANET, but if it where Delaware Bay, then Chesapeake Bay would still be there too, and that's not indicated on Cornelius' map.  I find it much more easy to imagine that the sea levels have dropped by the time of PLANET and that Delaware Bay is gone and that the "inland sea" is what's left of Chesapeake Bay.  For this reason I also find it very hard to believe that a new "inland sea" could have been created in an area of what is now New Jersey so that what's shown on Cornelius' map could be closer to the NYC area and make all you fans happy that want the things in BENEATH to makes sense and not be the plain goofs of Dehn that they are.

I would also like to remind everyone that it's plain that a terrible nuclear bombardment destroyed most of the surface area of the East coast 2000 years before what's shown in PLANET and turned the area to a desert wasteland.  I mention this because it then becomes obvious that it's very unlikely there'd be "greenbelts" of vegetation in these areas, which would clearly encompass all of what was New Jersey.  The "greenbelts" would most likely exist in areas that had escaped the original bombardment.

So, assuming that the "inland sea" is what's left of Chesapeake Bay, that would place the green areas shown on Cornelius' map in what is now the border area of Virginia and North Carolina, which is also just mountainous enough to match what we see in PLANET.

Get a map in check it out.

As to this creating distances too great to make sense, I again disagree.  I would say that Ape City is barely a hundred miles from the "inland sea" and around one hundred and twenty-five miles from the ocean coast.  I believe that astronauts could have trekked such a distance in the "many days and nights" that Taylor indicates, and that when Cornelius says it's "a three day ride across the desert," I don't find it hard to believe that a person on horseback could travel a hundred and twenty-five miles in three days.

As for where Cornelius' cave is on the East coast, I don't try to place it anywhere specifically, simply because there's no knowing for sure.  If you want to believe, like Patrick does, that after Taylor leaves with Nova from the cave and merely gallops up the beach a little distance to find the Statue, then that simply places Cornelius' cave further up the coast, perhaps along the Jersey shore.  Remember, Cornelius says that it's "a three day ride across the desert," but that doesn't indicate how much further they rode, once they crossed the desert to get to Cornelius' cave.  They could have ridden another day or two or three to get up the coast to where the cave is.

OK, Patrick ... now tell me where my reasoning is wrong?

-- Rory
<.html<.html

These are most excellent!! THANK YOU GREG AND
HUNTER!!!

TIm

--- Greg Plonowski <urko3085@...> wrote:

> The screen grabs I did for the card sets are now
> available to download from Hunter's site. He's
> compressed them into zip files, one for each film.
> In each set, the first 44 grabs correspond to the
> cards, so you can see the original uncropped image
> for each card. After that are the grabs I didn't
> use, in roughly the order in which the images
> appeared in the film. The grabs are in 'widescreen'
> except except for the images for the 44th card of
> each set, which are full-frame grabs from
> supplemental DVD materials. The grabs for Battle
> will also be made available after I've finished that
> set.
>
> http://www.goatley.com/pota/
>
> Greg
>
> patrickmichaeltilton
> <patrickmichaeltilton@...> wrote:
> Sounds great, Greg!
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Greg Plonowski wrote:
> > Patrick:
> >
> > Sure, I'll make the screen grabs available.
> There's a bit too many
> to fit in the group files, but I discussed it with
> Hunter and he's
> agreed to host them on his site, although it will
> probably just be
> for a limited amount of time. I'll need a few days
> to pull them off
> the discs where I have them archived, and I'll need
> to convert them
> from bitmaps to jpegs so the files are more
> reasonably sized.
> >
> > I'll make an announcement when they're available
> to download.
> >
> > Greg
>

____________________________________________________

They are scene in a "wall vision" playing "Ring around
the rosies".....
Tim


--- Neil <nfoster@...> wrote:

> I have seen photos with mutant children in them
> though I can't
> remember if there are actually any that made it into
> the final film or
> not, I think they may have been deleted scenes but
> as I haven't
> watched it for such a long time I can't recall.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>

____________________________________________________

Yes, Neil, this is what I was thinking of......putting
all the locations in there..
Tim

--- Neil <nfoster@...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\""
> <apefan23@y...> wrote:
> > can you create a databank on the group site?
>
> -- Tim, there is a Database feature (see the group
> links on the left
> of the DG homepage) that any group member can add
> stuff to, not sure
> if this is the sort of thing you were thinking about
> though?
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Greg Plonowski
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 1:53 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: The BENEATH, ESCAPE & CONQUEST cards

The screen grabs I did for the card sets are now available to download from Hunter's site. He's compressed them into zip files, one for each film. In each set, the first 44 grabs correspond to the cards, so you can see the original uncropped image for each card. After that are the grabs I didn't use, in roughly the order in which the images appeared in the film. The grabs are in 'widescreen' except except for the images for the 44th card of each set, which are full-frame grabs from supplemental DVD materials. The grabs for Battle will also be made available after I've finished that set.

 

http://www.goatley.com/pota/

 

Greg

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mithril1960@...
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 10:26 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] DVD Apes Wish List

What I really wish is that 20th Century Fox would get off their collective
ass and do a final, super duper, balls to the wall, everything plus the Kitchen
Sink boxed set of Planet of the Apes. Not the Tim Burton Abortion, but the
original Five, Planet, Beneath, Escape, Conquest, Battle. And I want the
unedited, uncut version of battle. As well as all the unused footage (did they
ever film the opening inside the spaceship scene for Escape? If so, where the
hell is it?). I know that Cesars big emotion scene after Armando was killed was
actually part of the "Ape trying to escape the city" scene that was the
original opening of Conquest. I'd also like to see the uncut Apes Rampage from
Conquest which would have gotten it an R rating. I want all the commercials,
trailers and even the printed ads. Anyone else remember the cool faux newspaper

print ads for Conquest? Or the ones for Escape which proclaimed that Baby
Milo has Washington terrified? Well it's time for 20th Century to come clean
and bring out the big guns. Like Lucas did with the Star Wars Trilogy (and even

that could have some more). I want my Apes complete and I want them NOW!!!!
Damn you 20th Century Fox, DAMN YOU ALL TO HELL!

 

"WILL THE WIND EVER REMEMBER, THE NAMES IT HAS BLOWN IN THE PAST
AND WITH ITS CRUTCH ITS OLD AGE AND ITS WISDOM, IT WHISPERS NO ,"THIS WILL BE THE LAST"

- Jimi Hendrix 'The Wind Cries Mary'

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 8:58 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com; pota@yahoogroups.com; sciencefictiongroup@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Kong trailer is coming!!!

But, will it be just a teaser?

DarkHorizons.com posted this news earlier: Universal will present an unprecedented motion picture preview "roadblock" as all nine of its networks simultaneously telecast the world premiere of the first trailer for Universal Pictures' "King Kong," On Monday, June 27, from 8:59:30-9:02 PM ET. ***********************************
NBC -- immediately following "Fear Factor" USA Network -- immediately following "Law & Order: SVU SCI FI Channel -- immediately following "Stargate-SG1" Bravo -- immediately following "West Wing" Universal HD -- immediately following "Airport '77" MSNBC -- immediately following "Countdown with Keith Olberman" CNBC -- immediately following "Cover to Cover" Telemundo -- immediately following "La Mujer en el Espejo" Mun2 -- premiere during the two-hour block of "The Roof."

<.html

Ah, this confounded Map! Where do I begin?

Firstly, I think it's evident, when we compare the MAP's depiction of
Dead Lake with the aerial views of it, on-location at Lake Powell,
that the SIZE of Dead Lake cannot be as huge as Chesapeake Bay, no
matter how superficially the placement of it appears on the Map-
turned-sideways (so that "Right" = "North").

The ONLY reason I consider the Map to be shown (by Cornelius) with
NORTH on the RIGHT side is because of that SINGLE LINE OF DIALOGUE
in "BENEATH", when Cornelius tells Brent that the last place they saw
Taylor, he was heading "towards the north" -- deep into the territory
they call the Forbidden Zone. The Map depicts the oceanic coastline
extending lengthwise across the Map, both Leftward and Rightward, and
since Taylor and Nova rode their horse with the ocean on their RIGHT
side and the cliffside on their LEFT side, that makes it rather
evident that they were travelling -- according to Cornelius' Map --
towards the RIGHT, which (in "BENEATH") is then referred to
as "towards the NORTH".

How big is Lake Powell? Remember that huge establishing shot of the
tiny ANSA spaceship floating in that lake, when the camera pans up
and over and shows the bleak wasteland surrounding the lake? If THAT
sized body of water is what Cornelius' Map undoubtedly is trying to
depict (what with all the lake's shoreline weaving in and out), then
the area depicted on Cornelius' Map CANNOT cover as much territory as
Rory thinks it covers, from Virginia up to the New Jersey area. From
the area where Taylor's raft is beached, we can see across the entire
lake -- all those buttes and mesas, all that stuff. If this were
Chesapeake Bay, the "other side" of the lake would be about TEN MILES
away -- far enough away that they couldn't possibly see the
surrounding terrain. Dead Lake -- filmed at Lake Powell -- just ain't
that big, and the depiction of it on the Map should be correlated
with the actual area size of the locations they filmed the scenes at.
The convoluted shoreline of Lake Powell covers a much smaller area
than the shoreline of Chesapeake Bay.

Another thing: the "mountains" Zira mentions -- which we see Taylor
and his fellow astronauts trekking along. According to the Map, the
TWO areas that represent "mountains" are colored dark BROWN, and are
on either side of the Dead Lake-plus-river, with the peninsula along
the ocean shore being predominantly mountainous (that's represented
by the high cliff where the Cave is at). Cornelius' Map has the
dashed-line (demarcating the Forbidden Zone) cutting right through
part of the upper brown-colored mountainous area.

Now compare THOSE mountainous regions (relative to the "green belts"
on the Map, representing the Ape City area and the Cornfield/Hunt
area), with a relief map of the American coast. What do you see?

In order for Dead Lake to be the remnants of Chesapeake Bay, the
brown mountainous area along the oceanic coastline has to be the
Eastern Maryland, Delaware, and Southern New Jersey area -- which is
NOT mountainous! The mountainous areas (in modern times) are located
WEST of these places, specifically the BLUE RIDGE Mountains of
Virginia extending North-Eastwards through Pennsylvania's branch of
the Appalachian Mountains up to the POCONO Mountains about 30 miles
north of Allentown PA and about 50 miles due west of the urban
development that includes New York City, Jersey City, Newark, etc.

I do NOT buy into the notion that Dead Lake represents Long Island
Sound (which is portrayed on a lay-over map done up by James, I
think, over at the old Yahoo group), by the way. That (wrong) map
depicts the Statue of Liberty's position somewhere along the RIVER
that branches off from Dead Lake, rather than along the oceanic
shoreline along the bottom of the Map.

I once mentioned (back in the old Yahoo group) that the very fact
that Taylor had been shot in the throat and had "lost a lot of blood"
yet had NOT bled to death, indicates that the distance -- by wagon --
from the Hunt area to the Ape City area CANNOT be so far as Rory's
interpretation of the Map suggests (hundreds of miles), but MUST
represent a smaller area than that.

As for my own interpretation of exactly WHICH rectangular patch of
current territory is represented by Cornelius' Map, well, I'm sure
that most of you know that I'm postulating that the Nuke War not only
devastated the surface of the world (predominantly the urban centers
and the military targets), but also prematurely triggered an "Earth
Crust Displacement" event (usually called a "pole shift"), sending
the New York City area from ~ Latitude 41 North SOUTHWARDS into the
Tropical Zone (south of Latitude 23.5 North)... which is why both
Zira and Zaius refer to the neighboring forests as JUNGLES. Jungles
are TROPICAL rain forests, and no one in their right mind would refer
to a TEMPERATE zone forest as a "jungle" -- yet two SCIENTISTS
("Doctor Zira" and "Doctor Zaius, Minister of Science") refer to the
forest as a "jungle".

In my scenario, the surface of the planet -- the entire thin crust --
is shifted catastrophically, sending the Ape City area into the
tropics. This shift of the crust also causes catastrophic mountain-
building to occur -- imagine pulling a table cloth over something
bulging out under it: the cloth (representing the crust) follows the
contours of the subsurface object. Thus, some higher elevation areas
will sink while other lower elevation areas will rise up and become
new mountains. New river channels will be created -- which is why the
rivers on Cornelius' map do NOT match up to any currently known river
valleys.

And, somehow the Statue of Liberty -- instead of being situated on an
ISLAND as it is today -- winds up half-buried on an UPTHRUSTED chunk
of land that has become a NEW part of the continental shoreline. More
than mere detonations of nuclear weapons had to have happened to
cause the terrain around the Statue of Liberty to morph into the
final shots we see in "PLANET". My "Earth Crust Displacement"
scenario takes into account the "jungle" lines AND the imagery seen
on-screen and offers up one plausible reason.

A few final remarks: Rory says that he finds "simply silly" the
notion he claims I hold that Taylor goes from the Statue of Liberty
to "return to the rock pool near Ape City to retrieve his dog tags,
only then to go all the way back to reach the NYC area." First off,
the rock pool is NOT near Ape City -- it's in the "green" area where
Cornelius indicates Taylor was captured, in a DIFFERENT green area
from where he indicates Ape City lies ["... We're HERE... you were
captured HERE..." -- two different green areas on the Map]. Secondly,
the entire area, as I interpret it, taking into account "BENEATH" too
(which Rory hates), has it that the "rock pool" area is on the border
of the Forbidden Zone -- that same once-urbanized area which includes
NYC that was blasted with nukes. Rory's line "all the way back"
doesn't make much sense, since it's on the very border of the
wasteland.

Rory, comparing Cornelius' Map with a current map of the Eastern US
seaboard, asks: "Where in the present day world is such a body of
water on the East coast of the US?" inferring that Dead Lake MUST
then be Chesapeake Bay. But the obviously ALTERED topography depicted
in the Statue of Liberty scene makes it evident, to me, that it
doesn't much MATTER what the "present day world" looks like. After
the devastation wreaked by Man on the world (as well as its
unintended aftermath of Earth Crust shifting), the topography is so
changed as to render virtually everything unrecognizable. The ONLY
thing that would seem safe to conclude is that the HUGE body of water
to Taylor's RIGHT as he and Nova ride their horse along the shoreline
represents the ATLANTIC OCEAN and the land to their left represents
the NEW, ALTERED Eastern Coast of North America "south" of the New
York City area.

How FAR south, well, Rory has his opinion (Chesapeake Bay, etc), but
when I compare the filming location (Lake Powell) -- the aerial shots
of which are in the film, depicting the convoluted coastline of Dead
Lake -- with the Map, I conclude that the Map covers a much smaller
area than Rory thinks. Taylor would've bled to death if that wagon
had had to travel as far as he thinks the distance between those two
green areas are on the Map. With all due respect Rory, I just don't
buy it. Even ignoring "BENEATH", and just taking what's in "PLANET",
I can't agree on most of your Map interpretation. We agree (and have
always agreed, though for different reasons) that the Forbidden Zone
is NORTH of Ape City, and I dig it when we agree on things. But I
respectfully disagree about other aspects of this Map.

Patrick

-------------------------------------------------------------------

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> I also want to add to what's below that it makes no sense, as
Patrick proposes, that after Taylor sees the Statue of Liberty that
he'd return to the rock pool near Ape City to retrieve his dog tags,
only then to go all the way back to reach the NYC area.
That "scenario" is simply silly. Also, none of the astronauts in
PLANET seem to be wearing dog tags in the first place. It's simply
another of Dehn's many goofs in continuity in BENEATH, like the 3955
date, and having Brent come across the remains of a subway station in
what was Queens, just outside the Ape City greenbelt -- what a goof!
>
> -- Rory
>
> For me it's been pretty plain since I first starting really looking
at it in the early seventies that Cornelius' map in PLANET shows an
area of the United States that was once the East coast. At the end
of the movie Taylor discovers the Statue of Liberty, so that it's
pretty plain as to where we are, but what exact area? Most POTA
fans, to my great annoyance, seem to think it's the NYC area, mostly
because of that awful mess of a sequel, BENEATH, but just sticking
with the original film and the map that Cornelius holds up this is
what I believe:
>
> Patrick has conceded that it's obvious Taylor rides north along the
shore at the end on the movie and then comes across the Statue.
Therefore, Cornelius' cave is south of where the Statue of Liberty
is, along the Atlantic coast of the US
>
> Working from that, we see on Cornelius' map, which he's obviously
holding sideways so that what we now call north is in the direction
that's right on the map that Cornelius holds up, a large inland body
of water. Where in the present day world is such a body of water on
the East coast of the US?
>
> I think it can only be Chesapeake Bay in the state of Virginia and
Maryland. Get a map of the US east coast and turn it sideways so
that the Atlantic Ocean is south and see if you don't also see a
similarity in the area of Chesapeake Bay and what is shown on
Cornelius' map. Further north from Chesapeake Bay there is Delaware
Bay and that too could be what is called the "inland sea" or "dead
lake" in PLANET, but if it where Delaware Bay, then Chesapeake Bay
would still be there too, and that's not indicated on Cornelius'
map. I find it much more easy to imagine that the sea levels have
dropped by the time of PLANET and that Delaware Bay is gone and that
the "inland sea" is what's left of Chesapeake Bay. For this reason I
also find it very hard to believe that a new "inland sea" could have
been created in an area of what is now New Jersey so that what's
shown on Cornelius' map could be closer to the NYC area and make all
you fans happy that want the things in BENEATH to makes sense and not
be the plain goofs of Dehn that they are.
>
> I would also like to remind everyone that it's plain that a
terrible nuclear bombardment destroyed most of the surface area of
the East coast 2000 years before what's shown in PLANET and turned
the area to a desert wasteland. I mention this because it then
becomes obvious that it's very unlikely there'd be "greenbelts" of
vegetation in these areas, which would clearly encompass all of what
was New Jersey. The "greenbelts" would most likely exist in areas
that had escaped the original bombardment.
>
> So, assuming that the "inland sea" is what's left of Chesapeake
Bay, that would place the green areas shown on Cornelius' map in what
is now the border area of Virginia and North Carolina, which is also
just mountainous enough to match what we see in PLANET.
>
> Get a map in check it out.
>
> As to this creating distances too great to make sense, I again
disagree. I would say that Ape City is barely a hundred miles from
the "inland sea" and around one hundred and twenty-five miles from
the ocean coast. I believe that astronauts could have trekked such a
distance in the "many days and nights" that Taylor indicates, and
that when Cornelius says it's "a three day ride across the desert," I
don't find it hard to believe that a person on horseback could travel
a hundred and twenty-five miles in three days.
>
> As for where Cornelius' cave is on the East coast, I don't try to
place it anywhere specifically, simply because there's no knowing for
sure. If you want to believe, like Patrick does, that after Taylor
leaves with Nova from the cave and merely gallops up the beach a
little distance to find the Statue, then that simply places
Cornelius' cave further up the coast, perhaps along the Jersey
shore. Remember, Cornelius says that it's "a three day ride across
the desert," but that doesn't indicate how much further they rode,
once they crossed the desert to get to Cornelius' cave. They could
have ridden another day or two or three to get up the coast to where
the cave is.
>
> OK, Patrick ... now tell me where my reasoning is wrong?
>
> -- Rory

.html.html In a message dated 6/19/05 9:17:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

How FAR south, well, Rory has his opinion (Chesapeake Bay, etc), but
when I compare the filming location (Lake Powell)

You should not be comparing it with Lake Powell.  Where they shot the movie is irrelevant.

The area that I think it is makes sense because in order to support the kind of life and society it does, and for the apes to be as ignorant of the area around them, there world has to be larger than you like.

I do think Ape City is in the Blue Ridge Mountains, only those of Virginia.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/19/05 9:17:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

conclude that the Map covers a much smaller
area than Rory thinks. Taylor would've bled to death if that wagon
had had to travel as far as he thinks the distance between those two
green areas are on the Map.

I would say that the distance between the hunt area and Ape City is no more than twenty-five miles or so.  When did I ever say it was hundreds?  Remember, Patrick, the green areas have to be large in order to support the life there.

It's hundreds of miles from where the Statue of Liberty is to Ape City, that's for sure!

-- Rory<.html <.html