.html.html In a message dated 6/19/05 9:17:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

But the obviously ALTERED topography depicted
in the Statue of Liberty scene makes it evident, to me, that it
doesn't much MATTER what the "present day world" looks like.

Ah, the old ALTERED topography thing.  Dude, take a fucking look at how much the topography of this planet has changed in the last 2000 years (not fucking much!), then seriously try to tell me that it would change that much in another 2000 years, nuclear war or not!

I told you think it's obvious the ocean levels have dropped.  At the end of PLANET the top of the Statue of Liberty merely lies on the bottom of what was New York Harbor!  Haven't you figured that out yet, Patrick!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/19/05 9:17:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

In my scenario, the surface of the planet -- the entire thin crust --
is shifted catastrophically, sending the Ape City area into the
tropics. This shift of the crust also causes catastrophic mountain-
building to occur

You see, Patrick, this is what gets me about you, there always has to be some kind of phenomenal event in your "scenario."

I much prefer simply subtal changes.  I think that's more probable.  A massive nuclear bombardment around most of the northern hemisphere, and much of the southern too I guess, followed by decades of nuclear winter, followed by sever climate change, a heating of the earth, lose of water and erosion of the landscape to what it looks like in the film.

-- Rory<.html <.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:13 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Map and Distances (Revised)

In a message dated 6/19/05 9:17:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

But the obviously ALTERED topography depicted
in the Statue of Liberty scene makes it evident, to me, that it
doesn't much MATTER what the "present day world" looks like.

Ah, the old ALTERED topography thing.  Dude, take a fucking look at how much the topography of this planet has changed in the last 2000 years (not fucking much!), then seriously try to tell me that it would change that much in another 2000 years, nuclear war or not!

I told you think it's obvious the ocean levels have dropped.  At the end of PLANET the top of the Statue of Liberty merely lies on the bottom of what was New York Harbor!  Haven't you figured that out yet, Patrick!

-- Rory

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----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 7:18 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Map and Distances (Revised)

In a message dated 6/19/05 9:17:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

In my scenario, the surface of the planet -- the entire thin crust --
is shifted catastrophically, sending the Ape City area into the
tropics. This shift of the crust also causes catastrophic mountain-
building to occur

You see, Patrick, this is what gets me about you, there always has to be some kind of phenomenal event in your "scenario."

I much prefer simply subtal changes.  I think that's more probable.  A massive nuclear bombardment around most of the northern hemisphere, and much of the southern too I guess, followed by decades of nuclear winter, followed by sever climate change, a heating of the earth, lose of water and erosion of the landscape to what it looks like in the film.

-- Rory

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/19/05 11:36:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Earth has a thin crust? God should've ordered thick crust! But there's certainly enough meatballs on it.  - - - Jeff

The thin crust is probably a constant in Patrick's underwear!

OH!  That was a cheap shot.  OK, Patrick bugs me, that must be pretty obvious.<.html <.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 1:48 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Map and Distances (Revised)

In a message dated 6/19/05 11:36:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Earth has a thin crust? God should've ordered thick crust! But there's certainly enough meatballs on it.  - - - Jeff

The thin crust is probably a constant in Patrick's underwear!

OH!  That was a cheap shot.  OK, Patrick bugs me, that must be pretty obvious.

<.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 1:13 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Caesar's "right" to rule....

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> I wonder if Caesar ever allowed the Apes of his community (post-
CONQUEST and prior to BATTLE) to believe that his mother was
literally a Virgin who had conceived him. Did he also allow his
fellow Apes to believe that Breck actually did see him literally die?

-- This could be an interesting storyline to pursue. What if a
combination of his power, the death of his son and him killing
another ape sent him 'over the top' into insanity and he started to
believe himself that he was some sort of messiah, what sort of
outrageous things would he be prepared to do in the name of the one
true ape religion - the cult of Caesar.
(He's not the messiah! he's just a naughty little chimp...);-)

> "The Lady of the Lake... her arm clad in most shimmering samite,
thrust upon the bosom of the water Excalibur... signifying that I,
Arthur, am to be King of the Britons."

-- Look just because some watery tart lobs a scimitar at you is no
basis for government... oops, better stop right now, it's getting
silly... :-)

Neil

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 1:13 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com; pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Kong trailer is coming!!!

Yes, that "spider pit" scene actually never made it to the final release version in 1933, and the negatives were destroyed over sixty ago!

-- Rory

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 1:58 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Rory vs Patrick & Pregnant Zira

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> Let's get this straight...
DEHN IS NOT POTA!!!!
BOULLE IS POTA.  SERLING AND WILSON ARE POTA.
Dehn is second generation, second string, campy and INFERIOR POTA!
He's just one rung above the third generation, third rate POTA TV show!

-- Oh dear, here we go again! So just what is POTA?

Pity Will Hoover isn't around on the group anymore, I'm sure he would
tell us all what IS and isn't Planet of the Apes.

Neil

<.html

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Or are you a POTA elitist?

 

 

 -----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 2:50 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Rory vs Patrick & Pregnant Zira

In a message dated 6/18/05 11:58:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Oh dear, here we go again! So just what is POTA?

First, POTA is the Boulle book.  Second, it is the 1968 Science Fiction film classic.  These are the only things "POTA" that really matter.

Everything else -- the sequels, TV shows, remake, comics, toys, etc. -- are a substrata of the above.  They are on a lower evolutionary scale, as it were -- "Like something that fell out of a tree." 

Now for most of you it seems "All APES are created equal," but not for me.

Just call me a "POTA snob," but that's the way I see it.

-- Rory

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of John
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2005 4:28 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Rory vs Patrick & Pregnant Zira

>First, POTA is the Boulle book.  Second, it is the 1968 Science
> Fiction film classic.  These are the only things "POTA" that really
> matter.
>
> -- This is what I don't understand. You say the original novel AND
the
> first movie are POTA and all that came after really isn't but to me
> that book and the original movie are so very different from each
other
> that I can't class them as the same thing.
>


I agree. Aside from talking Apes and a few character names, the first
film takes very little from the novel. To be such a purist that all
the sequals and those involved are lesser than those of the original
film seems wrong. To say Dehn was wrong to make the changes to the
story to fit his interpretation is unfair if it was O.K. for Franklin
Schaffner,Michael Wilson, Rod Serling and Arthur Jacobs to re-work the
novel into the film we love today. I find the film "Planet of the
Apes" to be far better than the novel "Monkey Planet" and I am
thankful for the changes that were made to create a far better story
than what we could have been given. I agree that none of the later
Apes projects can hold up to the original film, but to hate them just
because they were created after the original seems pointless.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:19 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Rory vs Patrick & Pregnant Zira

and in CONQUEST Dehn coarsened and cheapened Boulle's premise.  BATTLE is a tired kiddy's film.  His sequels are full of inconsistencies, improbable coincidences and have over the years come to look very silly.  I don't hate them, but it's hard for me to like them much.

-- Rory

<.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 2:05 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Map and Distances (Revised)

I also want to add to what's below that it makes no sense, as Patrick proposes, that after Taylor sees the Statue of Liberty that he'd return to the rock pool near Ape City to retrieve his dog tags, only then to go all the way back to reach the NYC area.  That "scenario" is simply silly.  Also, none of the astronauts in PLANET seem to be wearing dog tags in the first place.  It's simply another of Dehn's many goofs in continuity in BENEATH, like the 3955 date, and having Brent come across the remains of a subway station in what was Queens, just outside the Ape City greenbelt -- what a goof!

-- Rory

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In a message dated 6/19/2005 8:17:49 P.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

If this were Chesapeake Bay, the "other side" of the lake would be about TEN MILES away -- far enough away that they couldn't possibly see the
surrounding terrain.

 

Not true.  The buildings down town are under a 1000 feet tall and I can see them 10 miles away.  I would say the surrounding terrain is about that tall, so they could easily see it with nothing between them and it but flat water.  And who's to say that the terrain around the bay hadn't changed over the last couple thousand year, especially with H-bombs going off all over the place.

 

 

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> The more you think about Conquest, the less sense it makes.

This is the story I most want to re-do....how the apes came to be.

-- And why those nasty humans made the apes wear shoes with no room
for them to squeeze their sticky out thumb like big toe into. No
wonder they were so cranky and eager to rise up against their cruel
masters! ;-)

Neil

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-- <.html

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /pota map.jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/pota%20map.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

>I don't get what you mean by "I can't class them as the same thing."

-- I don't see them as the same thing because of the major differences
between the book and the movie, just like I don't class something like
the movie version of Logan's Run and the original novel as the same
thing, sure they have the same name, the basic same plot idea and even
most of the same character names but they can no way be classed as the
same as each other.

>For me, they're very similar, but like two different species of the

same animal, like a gorilla and a chimp are both apes.

-- But couldn't this reasoning also be applied to the sequel movies,
the TV series, the comics etc. as well?

Neil

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In a message dated 6/20/2005 11:55:29 A.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

Armando starts pota by switiching the chimp babies

He didn't switch them.

Zira switched them.

And she only thought of it

at the last minute.  I thought

we had established that.

 

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 6/19/05 9:17:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > But the obviously ALTERED topography depicted
> > in the Statue of Liberty scene makes it evident, to me, that it
> > doesn't much MATTER what the "present day world" looks like.
>
> Ah, the old ALTERED topography thing. Dude, take a fucking look at

how much the topography of this planet has changed in the last 2000
years (not fucking much!), then seriously try to tell me that it
would change that much in another 2000 years, nuclear war or not!

>
> I told you think it's obvious the ocean levels have dropped. At

the end of PLANET the top of the Statue of Liberty merely lies on the
bottom of what was New York Harbor! Haven't you figured that out
yet, Patrick!

>
> -- Rory

*** There I go, "respectfully" disagreeing with Rory, and he
unholsters the F-word, bein' all mean to me! Waaaaa!

Time to take the gloves off, I guess...

Hey, Rory -- take a smeggin' look at a history book of the last 2,000
years and tell me exactly WHEN the Earth suffered GLOBAL
THERMONUCLEAR WARFARE, and all the aftermath that scientists have
postulated would accompany such an event! Do it "seriously" now, you
doofus! It has NEVER happened! It is STOOOPID to insist that the
changes that've happened throughout the most RECENT two millennia
should be applied to the intervening topographic changes from a
NUCLEAR WAR taking place right about NOW until the 3900's. The
nastiest event of the last 2,000 years, from a geological standpoint,
is probably the eruption of Krakatoa in the 1800's. Bad for the
people living rather near it, but around the world the effects --
though felt -- were not NEARLY as catastrophic as what is depicted ON-
SCREEN in "PLANET".

You keep on trottin' out that notion of the "ocean levels dropping"
after the Nuke War. Why would they do that??? Nuclear Winter? Carl
Sagan (and others) speculated that nuke blasts would kick up so much
dust into the atmosphere that they would block out a good portion of
the Sun's light, and serve to 'cool' the climate -- is THAT what
you're suggesting? That the cooler climate would result in less
evaporation of water, so that the polar ice sheets get thicker, due
to snowfall that isn't re-evaporated, basically funneling water from
the oceans to the polar regions?

How 'bout THIS for a nuked-world climatic scenario: so many nukes go
BOOM that the upper side of each blastwave blows the ozone layer out
further from where it currently is... causing MORE radiation from the
Sun and the Cosmos to strike the Earth, which would INCREASE the
evaporation rate of the water on the surfaces of the oceans & seas,
which would lead to more precipitation down the line and generally
HOTTER temperatures -- which would serve to drive Sea Level UP rather
than DOWN. So that Lady Liberty is up to her WAIST, as we SEE her to
be in the end-shot of "PLANET".

How can the Statue of Liberty be on the BOTTOM of New York Harbor, if
the Cave (with all its artifacts dating back to the time of the nuke
war) is only about a few dozen yards up the face of the cliff?
Wouldn't the Cave itself have been UNDERWATER prior to the drop in
Sea Level that you think is "obvious" to have happened?

Maybe the guy with the false teeth & eyeglasses & failing heart was
Aquaman, having retired from crimefighting to live in his cave along
the New Jersey shoreline below the surface of the ocean... and when
the ocean level dropped, his formerly underwater home THEN became
exposed to the air.

Ehhh... I don't buy it.

You're fixated on the notion that Dead Lake = Chesapeake Bay, due to
a superficial resemblance. But Dead Lake ain't the only water on
Cornelius' Map -- there's also that little river that branches off
from the Lake, curling up and around part of the upper mountainous
area, and the LONGER river that has its source far to the LEFT on the
Map -- the river that runs through/past Ape City and (like Dead Lake)
empties into the Ocean.

Where are THOSE rivers, Rory, in our current time, huh? If the
topography doesn't change that smeggin' much, those same rivers
should be on a modern map, shouldn't they? So, where in hell (or
Virginia) ARE they? If Chesapeake Bay fits so nicely in your
paradigm, then the rivers should ALSO fit in nicely.

And you ducked my earlier point about the mountainous terrain
depicted on Cornelius' Map as opposed to where the mountains on
either side of Chesapeake Bay are... THERE AREN'T ANY! In my
topographical atlas (a Rand McNally GOODE'S WORLD ATLAS, 17th
Edition), where GREEN-colored land represents land that extends from
Sea Level up to 500 Feet above Sea Level, ALL the area surrounding
Chesapeake Bay is colored green, extending halfway across Virginia,
westward! Yet Cornelius' Map shows the "mountains" -- the BROWN-
colored areas on his map -- to be on EITHER SIDE of Dead Lake,
the "upper" one the particular mountainous area Zira speaks of when
Taylor hand-mimes his trek from the Lake to the Hunt Area, and
the "lower" one comprising the peninsula between the Lake and the Sea.

If Dead Lake were Chesapeake Bay, those mountainous areas would have
to be LOW-LYING terrain easing down to Sea Level -- but they AREN'T.

Compare a topological map of Virginia (focusing on the EASTERN part,
where it runs into Chesapeake Bay -- all 500 feet or less above Sea
Level, colored GREEN on my atlas' map) with the stretch of coastline
from San Francisco to Los Angeles. What do you see?

About 50 to 60 miles inland, there's a valley called the SAN JOAQUIN
VALLEY -- all colored GREEN on my topological map. It is part of a
long valley that extends from REDDING in Northern California to
BAKERSFIELD in Southern California. Sandwiched between the San
Joaquin Valley and the Pacific Ocean, between San Francisco and L.A.,
the terrain is predominantly at a HIGHER elevation [called the COAST
RANGES], from 1,000 to 5,000 feet above Sea Level, and colored TAN
and YELLOW (elevations from 1,000 to 2,000 feet and 2,000 to 5,000
feet, respectively).

The site where they actually filmed the Cave scene and the Statue of
Liberty scene is along this very stretch of land -- a small sliver of
GREEN-colored land along the shoreline hemmed in by HIGHER-elevated
land.

Whatever happened to the Earth's topography after the Nuke War, had
to have done something to force the EASTERN continental shelf to be
upthrust in such a manner that it resembles the WESTERN continental
shelf. The East Coast of the continental U.S.A. is TOO DAMN LOW for
there to be mountains where they would HAVE to be in order for
Chesapeake Bay to be Dead Lake.

One final note: I know you despise Dehn (yada yada yada), and
consider "BENEATH" to be nothing but a mess... but those of us who
aren't only-"PLANET"-matters fetishists, who DO take the info
in "BENEATH" into account have to wonder why it is that Brent -- who
took an EARTH-TIME reading BEFORE re-entry -- didn't recognize the
land masses of the planet around which his ship was orbiting (or,
which his ship was approaching). From space, he would've had a bird's
eye view of the Eastern Seaboard as his ship descended along the re-
entry trajectory. If "not f***ing much" of the Earth's topography has
changed -- as you insist -- then he should be able to recognize his
own goddamned country's coastline, shouldn't he? Or, if his ship has
circled the planet at least once prior to doing a re-entry burn, he
should've also been able to recognize the familiar coastlines of
Europe, Africa, Southern Asia, South America, all of it.

Taylor was in "deep sleep" when HIS ship did its re-entry maneuvers,
so he never had a CHANCE to see the world's land masses from beyond
the atmosphere. But even if he HAD been awake, would he have
recognized anything? If Brent didn't, then it's doubtful that ANY
20th Century astronaut who knows what our maps look like NOW would
recognize the ALTERED topography of the post-Nuked planet Earth.

Brent was AWAKE before/during/after re-entry, and after crashing the
ship and gettin' his Skipper out of the burning wreckage and using
that fire extinguisher (etc etc), Brent goes on to tell Skip that he
doesn't KNOW what planet they're on. Even after having seen it from
an orbital position. The land masses are so different that they have
become virtually UNRECOGNIZABLE, so that it never occurs to him that
it's actually Earth. If it DID still look basically the same (as you
seem to insist), then he would've NOTICED it, I think.

Just another (good) reason to conclude that the coastlines of the
continents are so altered by the Nuke War AND by some other
catastrophic topographical deformities that no 20th Century man or
woman would recognize the planet of the apes -- from orbit -- as
Earth.

Respectfully yours...

Patrick

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In a message dated 6/20/2005 1:12:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

tell me exactly WHEN the Earth suffered GLOBAL
THERMONUCLEAR WARFARE, and all the aftermath that scientists have
postulated would accompany such an event! Do it "seriously" now, you
doofus! It has NEVER happened!

 

I dunno . . .

When you look at all the nuclear test footage

spliced together, ala Dr Strangelove, WW 3

has already happened by proxy.  It just wasn't

directed at anyone -- unless you count The Earth.

 

 

 

<.html

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In a message dated 6/20/2005 1:12:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

You keep on trottin' out that notion of the "ocean levels dropping"
after the Nuke War. Why would they do that??? Nuclear Winter?

True, all the water that was ever here is still here,

in one for or another.  So unless you had a blast

so massive it blew away a large portion of the

atmosphere, which has a lot of water vapor in it,

you wouldn't significantly change the ocean levels.

It looked awfully hot in those deserts.  Not the

sort of weather for an Ice Age, even a mini one

like you had during the dark ages, unless there

was some ozone damage, which would be possible.

The only way I can see, is if you had a situation

like in Journey To The Center Of The Earth, where

it triggered a huge earthquake, and a fissure opened

up and poured into an underground sea.

 

 

 

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In a message dated 6/20/2005 1:12:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

How can the Statue of Liberty be on the BOTTOM of New York Harbor, if
the Cave (with all its artifacts dating back to the time of the nuke
war) is only about a few dozen yards up the face of the cliff?

 

I don't think the cave is that old.

I wouldn't be.  No one would be

living in a cave BEFORE the war.

And I would think it would be too

radioactive just after the war.

 

 

<.html

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In a message dated 6/20/2005 1:12:39 P.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Brent was AWAKE before/during/after re-entry

 

Can you give us a quote to confirm this?

 

 

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , <veetus@e...> wrote:

> Perhaps Armando is the mirror image of Hasslein and Breck, trying to

jiggle the odds in the opposite direction.

-- Armando is the bad guy. Hasslein and Breck are the good guys. They
are trying to stop us humans being dominated by the Apes after all!
You remember those nasty apes? That evil Zaius dude and all the awful
things they do / will do to those poor simple humans.

Neil

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 8:08 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Armando: radical?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <veetus@e...> wrote:
> Perhaps Armando is the mirror image of Hasslein and Breck, trying to
jiggle the odds in the opposite direction.

-- Armando is the bad guy. Hasslein and Breck are the good guys. They
are trying to stop us humans being dominated by the Apes after all!
You remember those nasty apes? That evil Zaius dude and all the awful
things they do / will do to those poor simple humans.

Neil

<.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:27 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Armando: radical?

In a message dated 6/20/2005 11:55:29 A.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

Armando starts pota by switiching the chimp babies

He didn't switch them.

Zira switched them.

And she only thought of it

at the last minute.  I thought

we had established that.

<.html

Hi everyone.

We are now down to 112 members and I have about 20 people begging to
get in the DG.

Membership will drop to 100 by the end of the week and I will create
a waiting list for these people who want in.

When members leave the group they will be replaced by those on the
waiting list.

The maximum number of members will now (or at least by the end of the
week) be 100.

To keep your spot on this group - YOU WILL HAVE TO POST (or at least
CONTRIBUTE in some way)!

It is a discussion group, not a "lurk and take what you can" group.

How hard can it be to jump in on a conversation once a week?

Anyway - bottome line is if you are not active you WILL be removed
and placed at the back of the line.

Michael

.html Hi everyone.

We are now down to 112 members and I have about 20 people begging to
get in the DG.

Membership will drop to 100 by the end of the week and I will create
a waiting list for these people who want in.

When members leave the group they will be replaced by those on the
waiting list.

The maximum number of members will now (or at least by the end of the
week) be 100.

To keep your spot on this group - YOU WILL HAVE TO POST (or at least
CONTRIBUTE in some way)!

It is a discussion group, not a "lurk and take what you can" group.

How hard can it be to jump in on a conversation once a week?

Anyway - bottome line is if you are not active you WILL be removed
and placed at the back of the line.

Michael
<.html

Zira gave some thought to switching the babies. She asks to say
goodbye to Eloise because they had become such good friends... Eloise
was an animal that could only relate to Zira on a small level. Zira
had an idea of what she was doing when she stepped into that cage. I
think the "look" she gives is her trying to figure out if she could
switch the infants without upseting Eloise.





--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> Obviously not everyone agrees?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On

Behalf Of

> LordTZer0@A...
> Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:27 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Armando: radical?
>
>
>
> In a message dated 6/20/2005 11:55:29 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> taebokitti@a... writes:
>
> Armando starts pota by switiching the chimp babies
>
> He didn't switch them.
> Zira switched them.
> And she only thought of it
> at the last minute. I thought
> we had established that.
>
>

.html.html In a message dated 6/20/05 7:47:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Rory,

How does this gel with YOUR interpretation?





The map is NOT of the NYC area.<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> Is that you Rory? ;)
>> -- Armando is the bad guy. Hasslein and Breck are the good guys.
>> Neil

-- Seriously though it is interesting how by about midway through the
series of films we humans become the bad guys and the audience is now
cheering for the apes. Go Apes!

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:17 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The map

In a message dated 6/20/05 7:47:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Rory,

How does this gel with YOUR interpretation?

The map is NOT of the NYC area.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 9:18 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Armando: radical?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:
> Is that you Rory?  ;)
>> -- Armando is the bad guy. Hasslein and Breck are the good guys.
>> Neil

-- Seriously though it is interesting how by about midway through the
series of films we humans become the bad guys and the audience is now
cheering for the apes. Go Apes!

Neil

<.html

.html.html Does anyone here remember the Fox movie from 1977 DAMNATION ALLEY?

It's like something Patrick would dream up.

-- Rory<.html<.html

Attachments :

.html.htmlIn a message dated 6/20/05 7:20:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I am ignorant of US geography but if you could send us a map of the region you think it is, we could ask Neil nicely to superimpose it.

Or should we just let James get away with his interpretation?  ;)


Eat this, Patrick!<.html <.html

Does anyone here remember the Fox movie from 1977 DAMNATION ALLEY?

It's like something Patrick would dream up.

-- Rory

Attachments :

.html.htmlOK, here's a visual example of what I'm talking about with Cornelius' map and what area of the US it actually is.

-- Rory<.html<.html

Hey all
Just a note in case you haven't received the email. I received
notification from Sideshow today that the Beneath Taylor, Astro.
Brent, and Slave Brent will be in the Sideshow warehouse in about 15-
30 days and will be shipping after that.
John

I don't know if any one has caught this and mentioned it before but I
just noticed it last night while watching Planet of the Apes. After
Taylor gets into a fight with the savage human in the cage, and the
guards burn him with a torch, they bring him back to his cage. Watch
and listen to the part when they are taking the noose off of his neck
in the cage. The guards club hits Taylor in the head and from the
sound of it, it is solid wood. I imagine that this was pure accident
but it had to hurt Heston from the sound.
John

.html

In a message dated 6/20/2005 5:51:32 P.M. Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

Zira gave some thought to switching the babies. She asks to say
goodbye to Eloise because they had become such good friends... Eloise

 

That's not even her name.

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/20/2005 6:23:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

It's like something Patrick would dream up.

 

Last night on Sealab the ocean drained leaving them high and dry.

The first think Quinn said was, "There must have been a tectonic

rift."  Sound like what we were talking about.  But it was a wall

of water just sitting there like in Read Or Die, or The Ten

Commandments.  And the tape quit recording before I

found out what was causing it.

 

 

 

<.html

.html

I remember that movie

<.html

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> OK, here's a visual example of what I'm talking about with Cornelius'

map and what area of the US it actually is.

>
> -- Rory

*** Unfortunately, Yahoo's crappy way of doing things makes this
Message appear without the attachment "stored". Is there any way for
this image to get posted here so that it actually can be SEEN? Maybe
send it as a File to the Files section?

Patrick

Hey Patrick!

I'll email it straight to you!

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> > OK, here's a visual example of what I'm talking about with

Cornelius'

> map and what area of the US it actually is.
> >
> > -- Rory
>
> *** Unfortunately, Yahoo's crappy way of doing things makes this
> Message appear without the attachment "stored". Is there any way for
> this image to get posted here so that it actually can be SEEN? Maybe
> send it as a File to the Files section?
>
> Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 6/20/2005 1:12:39 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> Brent was AWAKE before/during/after re-entry
>
>
>
> Can you give us a quote to confirm this?

-----------------------------------------------------------------

*** Sure. Brent says: "Skipper... I took an EARTH-TIME reading just
before re-entry,"

Skipper: "What did you get?"

Brent: "Three Niner Five Five."

Skipper: "Three thousand nine hundred and fifty five..."

Brent: "A.D."

etc.

I ask you (anybody, everybody): did Brent take that Earth-Time
reading while he was ASLEEP, or was he AWAKE when he did it? He HAD
to have been awake when he took that reading -- i.e. when he looked
at the EARTH-TIME/SHIP-TIME chronometers which were (probably) on the
starboard side of the cockpit (as they are in ALL the other ANSA
ships, Taylor's & Virdon's & the Ape-onaut one). Brent's pilot seat
was probably on the port side, which means he would've had to make an
effort to see the clock over on the other side, if it wasn't readily
visible from his pilot seat.

Brent was AWAKE prior to doing the re-entry burn that got his ship
crash-landed in the Forbidden Zone. He was awake while he was still
up in space -- near enough to the planet to SEE the continents and
oceans. It wasn't overcast in the scene where Skipper dies -- it's a
bright, sunny, blue-skies kinda day, so it's doubtful that there was
CLOUD COVER to prevent him from seeing the landing zone from miles
above.

He'd have been able to see -- and to recognize -- the area he would
eventually land on, and he does NOT recognize it, as he WOULD if the
topography wasn't changed "that f***ing much" (as Rory insists).

Skipper: "What about us? Where... where are we?"

Does Brent -- who SAW the planet from high up above its surface --
indicate that it looked familiar?

Brent says, "Well, in my opinion, Skipper, we've passed through a
Hasslein Curve... a bend in Time. I don't know what planet we're on,
but the fact is we're both of us here, we're breathing, we're
conscious, we've got plenty of oxygen... water..."

After giving Skip some oxygen, Brent says, "As soon as you feel
better, we'll ... we'll run a navigational estimate."

Skipper: "God, if I could only see the sun!"

Brent: "It's up there, all right. You can feel it."

Skipper: "Yes... but which... sun?"

Brent: "I don't know. I don't know, our computer's shot. We're lucky
to be alive."

Brent knows what a 'Hasslein Curve' is -- and WE know what it is,
too, if we paid attention to Taylor's 'Final Report' at the beginning
of "PLANET" where he mentioned "... Doctor Hasslein's theory of TIME
IN A VEHICLE TRAVELLING NEARLY THE SPEED OF LIGHT..." and how he then
witnesses how "Time BENDS... Space is boundless..."

Brent was probably in hibernation months before Taylor put Stewart,
Landon, and Dodge into "deep sleep" just before going under himself.
Brent knows that their ship -- the entire kit-and-kaboodle, including
the THREE shuttles seen in the first 3 movies and their still-
orbiting Command ship -- travelled at "nearly the speed of light" so
that Time (EARTH-TIME) was distorted, running faster than their self-
experiencing SHIP-TIME clocks.

Taylor ASSUMED that they made it all the way to their destination,
320 lightyears away, when he only had the final EARTH-TIME reading as
evidence to go on: 11-25-3978. If Brent, too, knew -- prior to going
on the journey -- that they would all reach their destination in
3978, then for him to wake up out of hibernation and see the EARTH-
TIME clock reading 3955 on it instead, he would have every reason to
conclude that their ship travelled MOST of the distance to the
intended destination, but NOT ALL THE WAY.

Their ship was to travel 320 lightyears in 2,006 years of EARTH-TIME
(from 1972 to 3978). That's 1 lightyear for every 6.26875 years of
EARTH-TIME.

However, subtracting 1972 from 3955 (the date Brent saw), gives only
1,983 years of EARTH-TIME. Divide that by 6.26875 and you get the
number of lightyears that Brent would assume their ship travelled:
316.33 -- which is 3.67 lightyears SHORT OF THE MARK.

Brent doesn't know what planet they're on, because he's thinking they
DIDN'T make it all the way, 320 lightyears out. The EARTH-TIME clock
SHOULD read 3978, and not 3955 -- it's 23 years of EARTH-TIME too
soon, and a corresponding 3.67 lightyears shy of the total 320
lightyear distance.

It's like going on a road trip in a car that has a computer
controlling the velocity -- keeping it at a standard 60 mph, let's
say -- and going from New York City to Washington D.C., and falling
asleep to let the computer-controlled car do all the work. And you
wake up with the car having stopped seemingly prematurely because the
TIME on the dashboard clock indicates you've only been travelling for
enough time to cover the distance 98.85% of the way. You know you
aren't in Washington D.C., but you figure you're probably somewhere
between Baltimore and Washington, fairly near to Washington though
you can't see any landmarks yet.

Brent only knows that when he was landing his ship that the EARTH-
TIME clock was NOT telling the time he had expected it to tell upon
their arrival at their Orion destination -- it's 3955, instead of
3978. He doesn't KNOW that somebody on their Command ship pressed
the "AUTOMATIC HOMING DEVICE" button and propelled 'em all back to
Earth. He also doesn't know that for some odd reason that trip back
to Earth ALSO caused them to go BACK IN TIME some 23 years of Earth-
Time (just as Virdon's ship did, when it zipped back to Earth from
Alpha Centauri on 7-14-3085 going BACKWARDS through Earth-Time to 3-
21-3085, all after having Time-Warped from 8-19-1980 to 7-14-3085
upon approaching a source of "radioactive turbulence" in the Alpha
Centauri system -- a spacetime-warping Black Hole).

Brent was asleep during all that prior activity, and he only knows
what the clocks are currently telling him: that it's the Earth-Time
year 3955... which MUST mean (he thinks) that they only travelled
316.33 lightyears of the 320 lightyears they were supposed to go.
They (he thinks) have landed on a livable planet that is 316.33
lightyears away from Earth and 3.67 lightyears away from their
intended destination. He doesn't know WHAT planet it is, but it's one
they can survive on -- they've got air to breathe, at any rate.

Too bad the crash-landing caused their computer to go on the fritz,
because THEN he could've perused the navigational info that it had
recorded during the past 18 months. He would then have KNOWN they've
landed back on Earth, and that their EARTH-TIME clocks have
registered a Forwards-through-Time transition from 1-15-1972 to 11-25-
3978 as well as a Backwards-through-Time transition back to 3955
after the Automatic Homing Device sent them back to Earth BACKWARDS
through Time.

Too bad, also, that the surface of the planet is SO CHANGED from what
it currently looks like that Brent couldn't recognized it even as he
flew that ship down from high enough up to SEE it, in all its
topographical glory.

"Skipper... I took an EARTH-TIME reading just before re-entry"

JUST BEFORE re-entry. He looked at the EARTH-TIME clock, and saw it
reading 3955, instead of 3978. As the one who must have PILOTED that
ship down to its crash-landing, he MUST have also looked out the
f***ing window.

Unless he were Luke Skywalker, with an eyesight-obscuring helmet on
his head, using the Force to pilot the ship down by instinct!

Skipper don't look like Obi Wan Kenobi, though, so I doubt it.

Patrick

.html

In a message dated 6/21/2005 6:04:43 A.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Is there any way for
this image to get posted here so that it actually can be SEEN?

I saw it.

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/21/2005 6:57:07 A.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

I ask you (anybody, everybody): did Brent take that Earth-Time
reading while he was ASLEEP, or was he AWAKE when he did it?

He didn't say what time it was though.

Or how many orbits they made.  So

it's possible they cam in on the dark

side.  And even if the apes had electric

light, there were no sea side settlements

or ports, not to mention the cloud cover

at night.  So you can't really infer a change

in topography.  Maybe he just couldn't

see anything.  Or he was too busy with

reentry to notice.

 

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/21/2005 11:25:42 A.M. Central Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

So you can't really infer a change

in topography.  Maybe he just couldn't

see anything.  Or he was too busy with

reentry to notice.

What I meant to say was you can't infer there wasn't a change.

Perhaps a night landing is the reason they crashed!  It's

tough to land with NV goggles, even in stereopticon ones.

 

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/21/05 3:11:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Now……do you think the gang for the first movie actually referred to this when they thought about the geography of things or just for this map?

Michael

I have no idea, I just wish I could find out who did the map.  It was probably one of the set decorators, but it may have been the art director and his department.  I don't know.  I just like there has to be something to the coincidence that the two areas match so much.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/21/05 7:57:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

He'd have been able to see -- and to recognize -- the area he would
eventually land on, and he does NOT recognize it, as he WOULD if the
topography wasn't changed "that f***ing much" (as Rory insists).

Anus....

This thing with Brent taking a reading before reentry is yet but another VIVID example of a Dehn goof and of that FACT that there was NO mastermind behind the making of BENEATH.  The movie is a film made by committee, and as such A MESS!

It's sad and pathetic that at your age you keep trying to make sense of it.

-- Rory<.html <.html

In a message dated 6/21/05 3:11:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Now……do you think the gang for the first movie actually referred to this when they thought about the geography of things or just for this map?

Michael

I have no idea, I just wish I could find out who did the map.  It was probably one of the set decorators, but it may have been the art director and his department.  I don't know.  I just like there has to be something to the coincidence that the two areas match so much.

-- Rory

---

Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

.html

In a message dated 6/21/2005 2:05:03 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I don't know.  I just like there has to be something to the coincidence that the two areas match so much.

 

Perhaps they decided to use the Chesapeake area for a red herring, in case someone recognized the Manhattan area, even sideways.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/21/2005 2:29:57 P.M. Central Standard Time, brindlepit2002@... writes:

a map made by set decorators...

 

Props Dept. more likely.

 

 

<.html

.html.html There's a show on tonight (June 21st) on CBS of the usual AFI crap.  POTA made the list at #66.


LOS ANGELES, June 21 — The American Film Institute's list of top 100 quotes from U.S. movies, with film title and year of release:
    1. ''Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn,'' ''Gone With the Wind,'' 1939.
    2. ''I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse,'' ''The Godfather,'' 1972.
    3. ''You don't understand! I coulda had class. I coulda been a contender. I could've been somebody, instead of a bum, which is what I am,'' ''On the Waterfront,'' 1954.
     4. ''Toto, I've got a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore,'' ''The Wizard of Oz,'' 1939.
       5. ''Here's looking at you, kid,'' ''Casablanca,'' 1942.
       6. ''Go ahead, make my day,'' ''Sudden Impact,'' 1983.
       7. ''All right, Mr. DeMille, I'm ready for my close-up,'' ''Sunset Blvd.,'' 1950.
       8. ''May the Force be with you,'' ''Star Wars,'' 1977.
       9. ''Fasten your seatbelts. It's going to be a bumpy night,'' ''All About Eve,'' 1950.
       10. ''You talking to me?'' ''Taxi Driver,'' 1976.
       11. ''What we've got here is failure to communicate,'' ''Cool Hand Luke,'' 1967.
       12. ''I love the smell of napalm in the morning,'' ''Apocalypse Now,'' 1979.
       13. ''Love means never having to say you're sorry,'' ''Love Story,'' 1970.
       14. ''The stuff that dreams are made of,'' ''The Maltese Falcon,'' 1941.
       15. ''E.T. phone home,'' ''E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial,'' 1982.
       16. ''They call me Mister Tibbs!'', ''In the Heat of the Night,'' 1967.
       17. ''Rosebud,'' ''Citizen Kane,'' 1941.
       18. ''Made it, Ma! Top of the world!'', ''White Heat,'' 1949.
       19. ''I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!'', ''Network,'' 1976.
       20. ''Louis, I think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship,'' ''Casablanca,'' 1942.
       21. ''A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice Chianti,'' ''The Silence of the Lambs,'' 1991.
      22. ''Bond. James Bond,'' ''Dr. No,'' 1962.
       23. ''There's no place like home,'' ''The Wizard of Oz,'' 1939.
       24. ''I am big! It's the pictures that got small,'' ''Sunset Blvd.,'' 1950.
       25. ''Show me the money!'', ''Jerry Maguire,'' 1996.
       26. ''Why don't you come up sometime and see me?'', ''She Done Him Wrong,'' 1933.
       27. ''I'm walking here! I'm walking here!'', ''Midnight Cowboy,'' 1969.
       28. ''Play it, Sam. Play 'As Time Goes By,''' ''Casablanca,'' 1942.
       29. ''You can't handle the truth!'', ''A Few Good Men,'' 1992.
       30. ''I want to be alone,'' ''Grand Hotel,'' 1932.
       31. ''After all, tomorrow is another day!'', ''Gone With the Wind,'' 1939.
       32. ''Round up the usual suspects,'' ''Casablanca,'' 1942.
       33. ''I'll have what she's having,'' ''When Harry Met Sally...,'' 1989.
       34. ''You know how to whistle, don't you, Steve? You just put your lips together and blow,'' ''To Have and Have Not,'' 1944.
       35. ''You're gonna need a bigger boat,'' ''Jaws,'' 1975.
       36. ''Badges? We ain't got no badges! We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!'', ''The Treasure of the Sierra Madre,'' 1948.
       37. ''I'll be back,'' ''The Terminator,'' 1984.
       38. ''Today, I consider myself the luckiest man on the face of the earth,'' ''The Pride of the Yankees,'' 1942.
       39. ''If you build it, he will come,'' ''Field of Dreams,'' 1989.
       40. ''Mama always said life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get,'' ''Forrest Gump,'' 1994.
   41. ``We rob banks,'' ``Bonnie and Clyde,'' 1967. 42. ``Plastics,'' ``The Graduate,'' 1967.    43. ``We'll always have Paris,'' ``Casablanca,'' 1942.    44. ``I see dead people,'' ``The Sixth Sense,'' 1999.       45. ''Stella! Hey, Stella!'', ''A Streetcar Named Desire,'' 1951.
       46. ''Oh, Jerry, don't let's ask for the moon. We have the stars,'' ''Now, Voyager,'' 1942.
   47. ``Shane. Shane. Come back!'', ``Shane,'' 1953.    48. ``Well, nobody's perfect,'' ``Some Like It Hot,'' 1959.    49. ``It's alive! It's alive!'', ``Frankenstein,'' 1931.    50. ``Houston, we have a problem,'' ``Apollo 13,'' 1995.       51. ''You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?'', ''Dirty Harry,'' 1971.
       52. ''You had me at 'hello,''' ''Jerry Maguire,'' 1996.
       53. ''One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How he got in my pajamas, I don't know,'' ''Animal Crackers,'' 1930.
       54. ''There's no crying in baseball!'', ''A League of Their Own,'' 1992.
       55. ''La-dee-da, la-dee-da,'' ''Annie Hall,'' 1977.
       56. ''A boy's best friend is his mother,'' ''Psycho,'' 1960.
       57. ''Greed, for lack of a better word, is good,'' ''Wall Street,'' 1987.
       58. ''Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer,'' ''The Godfather Part II,'' 1974.
       59. ''As God is my witness, I'll never be hungry again,'' ''Gone With the Wind,'' 1939.
       60. ''Well, here's another nice mess you've gotten me into!'', ''Sons of the Desert,'' 1933.
  61. ''Say 'hello' to my little friend!'', ''Scarface,'' 1983.
      62. ''What a dump,'' ''Beyond the Forest,'' 1949.
       63. ''Mrs. Robinson, you're trying to seduce me. Aren't you?'', ''The Graduate,'' 1967.
       64. ''Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!'', ''Dr. Strangelove,'' 1964.
       65. ''Elementary, my dear Watson,'' ''The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes,'' 1929.
       66. ''Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape,'' ''Planet of the Apes,'' 1968.
       67. ''Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine,'' ''Casablanca,'' 1942.
       68. ''Here's Johnny!'', ''The Shining,'' 1980.
       69. ''They're here!'', ''Poltergeist,'' 1982.
  70. ''Is it safe?'', ''Marathon Man,'' 1976.
       71. ''Wait a minute, wait a minute. You ain't heard nothin' yet!'', ''The Jazz Singer,'' 1927.
       72. ''No wire hangers, ever!'', ''Mommie Dearest,'' 1981.
  73. ''Mother of mercy, is this the end of Rico?'', ''Little Caesar,'' 1930.
       74. ''Forget it, Jake, it's Chinatown,'' ''Chinatown,'' 1974.
    75. ''I have always depended on the kindness of strangers,'' ''A Streetcar Named Desire,'' 1951.
       76. ''Hasta la vista, baby,'' ''Terminator 2: Judgment Day,'' 1991.
       77. ''Soylent Green is people!'', ''Soylent Green,'' 1973.
       78. ''Open the pod bay doors, HAL,'' ''2001: A Space Odyssey,'' 1968.
       79. Striker: ''Surely you can't be serious.'' Rumack: ''I am serious ... and don't call me Shirley,'' ''Airplane!'', 1980.
       80. ''Yo, Adrian!'', ''Rocky,'' 1976.
       81. ''Hello, gorgeous,'' ''Funny Girl,'' 1968.
       82. ''Toga! Toga!'', ''National Lampoon's Animal House,'' 1978.
       83. ''Listen to them. Children of the night. What music they make,'' ''Dracula,'' 1931.
       84. ''Oh, no, it wasn't the airplanes. It was Beauty killed the Beast,'' ''King Kong,'' 1933.
       85. ''My precious,'' ''The Lord of the Rings: The Two Towers,'' 2002.
       86. ''Attica! Attica!'', ''Dog Day Afternoon,'' 1975.
       87. ''Sawyer, you're going out a youngster, but you've got to come back a star!'', ''42nd Street,'' 1933.
       88. ''Listen to me, mister. You're my knight in shining armor. Don't you forget it. You're going to get back on that horse, and I'm going to be right behind you, holding on tight, and away we're gonna go, go, go!'', ''On Golden Pond,'' 1981.
       89. ''Tell 'em to go out there with all they got and win just one for the Gipper,'' ''Knute Rockne, All American,'' 1940.
       90. ''A martini. Shaken, not stirred,'' ''Goldfinger,'' 1964.
       91. ''Who's on first,'' ''The Naughty Nineties,'' 1945.
       92. ''Cinderella story. Outta nowhere. A former greenskeeper, now, about to become the Masters champion. It looks like a mirac ... It's in the hole! It's in the hole! It's in the hole!'', ''Caddyshack,'' 1980.
       93. ''Life is a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!'', ''Auntie Mame,'' 1958.
       94. ''I feel the need — the need for speed!'', ''Top Gun,'' 1986.
       95. ''Carpe diem. Seize the day, boys. Make your lives extraordinary,'' ''Dead Poets Society,'' 1989.
       96. ''Snap out of it!'', ''Moonstruck,'' 1987.
       97. ''My mother thanks you. My father thanks you. My sister thanks you. And I thank you,'' ''Yankee Doodle Dandy,'' 1942.
       98. ''Nobody puts Baby in a corner,'' ''Dirty Dancing,'' 1987.
       99. ''I'll get you, my pretty, and your little dog, too!'', ''The Wizard of Oz,'' 1939.
       100. ''I'm king of the world!'', ''Titanic,'' 1997.




© 2005 Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.



<.html<.html

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> There's a show on tonight (June 21st) on CBS of the usual AFI crap.

POTA made the list at #66.

>66. ''Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape,'' ''Planet

of the Apes,'' 1968.

-- Seems like a fair ranking to me. Personally my favourite line from
any of the movies is the 'the only good human is a dead human' line
from Beneath.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Should have been 69!

-- Ha! You said 69!

Someone else

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 6/21/05 3:11:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> whitty@c... writes:
> Now……do you think the gang for the first movie actually referred

to this when they thought about the geography of things or just for
this map?

-- Could somebody please upload a copy of this map to the files
section?

Neil

.html.html In a message dated 6/21/05 8:41:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Seems like a fair ranking to me. Personally my favourite line from
any of the movies is the 'the only good human is a dead human' line
from Beneath.

Neil

On the AFI show Ray Romano talked abut how no one ever gets the line exactly right, "Take your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty ape!"  Then Romano joked, "Oddly enough, I also heard that line on my honeymoon."<.html <.html

.html

Man!  I forgot!

I came in at Show me the Money!

Was it good?

Anyone tape it?

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/21/2005 6:04:38 P.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     66. ''Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape,'' ''Planet of the Apes,'' 1968.

 

They misquoted.  It's, "Take your stinking paws off me"

 

 

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 6:00 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: AFI's 100 Years...100 Quotes

In a message dated 6/21/05 8:41:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Seems like a fair ranking to me. Personally my favourite line from
any of the movies is the 'the only good human is a dead human' line
from Beneath.

Neil

On the AFI show Ray Romano talked abut how no one ever gets the line exactly right, "Take your stinking paws off me, you damn dirty ape!"  Then Romano joked, "Oddly enough, I also heard that line on my honeymoon."

<.html

.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/21/2005 11:34:08 AM Central Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Perhaps a night landing is the reason they crashed!

This makes sense... There's no indication that Brent's ship crashed during the daylight hours we see on screen... He and the Skipper may have been there overnight and we see them the next morning...<.html <.html

.html <.html

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Cornelius Map.JPG
Uploaded by : mike_oz2002 <whitty@...>
Description : Cornelius' Map - Rory's Interpretation

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Cornelius%20Map.JPG

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

mike_oz2002 <whitty@...>

.html
-- <.html

Excuse my spelling. Some of us have lives and families and can't spend
all our time and efforts arguing and learning every character in the
Apes universe. You understood the point, in my humble opinion. :)

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/20/2005 5:51:32 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> DrZaiusDavis@a... writes:
>
> Zira gave some thought to switching the babies. She asks to say
> goodbye to Eloise because they had become such good friends...
Eloise
>
>
>
> That's not even her name.

.html <.html

---

Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 6/21/05 7:57:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> > He'd have been able to see -- and to recognize -- the area he

would eventually land on, and he does NOT recognize it, as he WOULD
if the topography wasn't changed "that f***ing much" (as Rory
insists).

> >
>
> Anus....
>
> This thing with Brent taking a reading before reentry is yet but

another VIVID example of a Dehn goof and of that FACT that there was
NO mastermind behind the making of BENEATH. The movie is a film made
by committee, and as such A MESS!

>
> It's sad and pathetic that at your age you keep trying to make

sense of it.

>
> -- Rory

--------------------------------------------------------------------

*** "PLANET" itself wasn't a one-man/mastermind work of brilliance,
either. It took Serling & Wilson AND a third, uncredited dude (John
T. Kelley) to give us a script. It took dozens of primary crewpersons
to design & shoot the film (all the credited crew) as well as
hundreds of uncredited make-up artists, etc. And most of the main
people involved in "PLANET" were also involved in the making
of "BENEATH" -- including such "mess-makers" as Maurice Evans and Kim
Hunter, Mort Abrahams & Bill Creber & John Chambers. Every f'ing time
you slag "BENEATH" you heap slurs on THEM, Rory. The same people you
PRAISE for their work on "PLANET" you INSULT for their work
on "BENEATH", "ESCAPE", etc.

Did the ones who made "PLANET" -- and who made Cornelius' Map --
believe that YOUR interpretation is what they intended (where Dead
Lake is Chesapeake Bay)? Those SAME people in charge of
making "BENEATH" (Mort Abrahams, et al.) obviously saw it all
happening NEAR the Forbidden Zone that formerly was the NEW YORK CITY
area, which is why the Mutants live in the remains of NYC and NOT the
remains of Washington D.C.! If they had intended the main part of the
Forbidden Zone to represent the Washington D.C. area, they could
EASILY have set "BENEATH" in the remnants of that area, where Mendez
XXVI interrogates Brent in the ruins of the Capitol Building,
perhaps, instead of Grand Central Station in NYC.

Let's take a look at your little overlay maps, and see just how
RIDICULOUS it is. Compare a non-topographical map of the same area
you've taken of the Delaware/Maryland/Virginia area to Cornelius'
Map, and what does it tell you?

You would have Norfolk, Virginia -- a major military base, since U.S.
Naval aircraft carriers (etc) are docked there as often as not -- be
on the LEFT side of the dashed line demarcating the Forbidden Zone on
the RIGHT from the inhabited areas on the LEFT. It would be on that
little peninsula right where the river(s) flow into the Ocean, on
Cornelius' Map.

Where the hell are the ruins of the Norfolk, Virginia area??? If
anything, THAT area would be nuked into oblivion as well, and the
dashed line would have to be moved further to the LEFT, so as to
include it in the "deadly" areas.

In your interpretation, the "mountains" that Taylor and his crew trek
through, from the Raft to the Hunt area, represent the Washington
D.C. area, rather than the New York City area. And Cornelius' cave
must be somewhere along the Atlantic coast of Maryland or perhaps
Delaware. And, from there, it would be at least 200 MILES further up
the coast before Taylor reached the remains of the Statue of Liberty.

I suppose that Taylor and Nova could've spent some of the DAYS it
would've taken them to travel that far to stop off at, oh, ATLANTIC
CITY (which is in-between NYC and the part of your Map where the Cave
must be), to do some gambling. Maybe catch a show. I'm sure there's a
Mutant Elvis impersonator still doin' shows at Atlantic City in 3955,
3978, whenever.

Rory, the resemblance between Dead Lake and Chesapeake Bay is
SUPERFICIAL. The map Cornelius drew depicts the convoluted shoreline
of the lake Taylor's ship landed in the SAME way that the
establishing shots of the "sinking" scene show of Lake Powell. The
Map does not and CANNOT depict an area as huge as what you interpret,
based solely on the meager resemblance of Dead Lake to Chesapeake
Bay. Look at the overhead shots in the early scenes of "PLANET" to
see what Dead Lake looks like from above (the Lake Powell area,
especially the PADRE BAY section), and compare THAT to Cornelius'
Map, and that gives you a better idea of how much area is covered by
the Map.

And there ARE NO MOUNTAINS on either side of Chesapeake Bay! Even
your topological map shows that! But Cornelius' Map DOES show
mountainous areas surrounding Dead Lake -- they're the BROWN-colored
areas, one of which Zira says represents the "mountains" Taylor
trekked across from the Lake before he "reached the jungle".

It's "sad and pathetic" that your tunnel-vision regarding Chesapeake
Bay keeps you from seeing the obvious: that even if they had never
made "BENEATH" the Map Cornelius shows to Taylor CANNOT represent the
area you insist it covers. If a low-lying area like
Maryland/Virginia/Delaware could be upthrust to become "mountains"
then a hell of a lot more damage would've been done to the Earth's
topography, too. But you insist that "not f***ing much" has changed,
just the dropping of the sea level, somehow. Which would've meant
that the Cave where Cornelius found his 20th Century artifacts
would've been UNDERWATER in our time.

If you want to resort to insults like "anus..." and "sad and
pathetic", well, I can't stop you (and I'd rather this Group's
owners/moderators didn't either). I've tried to "respectfully"
disagree with you on this, Rory, but you're going out of your way to
be an insult-slingin' jerk about this. All 'cuz you hate Dehn and
everything that was a sequel to "PLANET". Rory, you're the ONLY one
in POTA fandom who seems to be a "PLANET"-ONLY-MATTERS agitator.
Other fans of POTA-dom like the sequel movies & TV show (etc) with
various levels of appreciation, and most will readily admit that the
1st film is indeed the best of 'em... but it wasn't the ONLY one.
Whether you like it or not, they made MORE movies... a TV show... etc
etc etc. Dehn didn't force his way into 20th Century Fox and COMPEL
them to make movies out of his scripts -- THEY GOT HIM to write
scripts for THEM. And they sounded off on 'em, and THAT
made 'em 'canon' as far as I'm concerned. And Roddy & Kim & a whole
bunch of others involved in the 1st film also were involved in the
making of the other films, to one degree or another.

You get ahold of that and hang onto it, or you might as well drop
dead!

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 6/21/2005 6:57:07 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
>
> I ask you (anybody, everybody): did Brent take that Earth-Time
> reading while he was ASLEEP, or was he AWAKE when he did it?
>
>
> He didn't say what time it was though.
> Or how many orbits they made. So
> it's possible they came in on the dark
> side. And even if the apes had electric
> light, there were no sea side settlements
> or ports, not to mention the cloud cover
> at night. So you can't really infer a change
> in topography. Maybe he just couldn't
> see anything. Or he was too busy with
> reentry to notice.

---------------------------------------------------------

*** Good points. Did Brent land the ship at night?

Admittedly, since the landing was NOT depicted on-screen, we don't
know exactly what time-of-day it happened, and it IS open to
speculation.

What makes the most sense?

Brent doesn't have any Mission Control guys at Houston to monitor his
re-entry, and there aren't any orbiting satellites around to bounce
signals back-and-forth between his ship (up in space) and any Mission
Control anyway. Brent has to rely on two things:

1. His ship has "Taylor's trajectory" information in it already, and

2. His OWN abilities as an ANSA ship pilot.

Do those abilities include being able to figure out whether or not it
is/will be NIGHTTIME when his re-entering ship will touch down on the
ground? He's an astronaut, and I suspect that he has a degree in
astronautics (Buzz Aldrin had one during his NASA years), so it would
be rather simple for him to calculate the TIME OF DAY his ship would
land, if he knows its relative location compared to his ever-changing
position up in space (be it on approach or in orbit).

Would it make SENSE to land it when it's pitch black outside? If he
had the CHOICE and could choose to wait 8-to-10 hours for NIGHT to
turn into DAY, then wouldn't it make sense for him to CHOOSE to land
it during the daytime, so that he could SEE the landing zone?

Unless he's relying on a trusty radar-pinging proximity indicator,
and isn't worried at all about the conditions of the landing zone,
then he MIGHT be willing to land during the nighttime.

But he DOESN'T KNOW what the condition of the landing zone is! He
doesn't have a flat runway to land on. He would have to assume that
the terrain MIGHT be too craggy and rugged to trust landing his ship
solely by radar-approach, on instruments.

Maybe he had no choice. Maybe there was a problem up in orbit, and he
HAD to begin a re-entry descent prematurely, when he couldn't HELP
but land at night, regardless of the riskier nature of such a
landing. Maybe. I'm not counting it out of the realm of possibility.

But was he able to orbit the world at least ONCE before doing that re-
entry burn? I would argue that doing a re-entry maneuver along an
IDENTICAL trajectory flown by a previous ship (Taylor's), would
require at SOME point being at the SAME relative location above the
planet's surface travelling at the SAME relative orbital velocity --
or FREEFALL velocity. Like any projectile fired from a cannon pointed
a certain direction at a certain angle, his ship has to MATCH those
characteristics, so that it can land at the SAME area, or at least to
within a 20 mile area of it.

I think it's unlikely that Brent would've CHOSEN to land at night if
he had the option of landing during the daytime. If he DIDN'T have
the option of waiting, he MIGHT have had to land at night...

... but he still should've had the opportunity to see the planet
while on approach to it, and he would've had to have done his re-
entry burn from ORBIT to land's surface. He would've had to orbit the
planet at least once, in order to get to the specific orbital
coordinate where he was to BEGIN the re-entry burn in order to end up
at the targeted landing zone. And during that time, he should be able
to see at least SOME of the terrain below, be it North America or
Europe or East Asia, what have you.

And this, of course, all calls into question HOW he (or his ship)
knew what "Taylor's trajectory" even WAS. In my scenario, the ONLY
reason his ship's navigational computer knows that trajectory is
because the 3rd ship flew down to the surface on the heels of
Taylor's ship, which was falling to a crash landing -- before
somebody on the 3rd ship did a REMOTELY-CONTROLLED manual landing of
Taylor's ship into Dead Lake, while another pilot landed the 3rd ship
onto the ocean's shoreline, somewhere past the Statue of Liberty
area, where Milo later found it.

After BOTH those ships had gone down along that same flightpath
("Taylor's trajectory"), the 3rd ship's crew radio'd up that
telemetry to their orbiting Command ship, and at some point -- WEEKS
later -- the Command ship transmitted that same telemetric
information over to Skipper/Brent's ship while they were still
hibernating away, to conserve on air & food, so that they could later
make use of it when THEY did their re-entry burn, to land near
Taylor's spot.

Brent's ship had to have been in orbit around the Earth since the
SAME time when Taylor's ship did ITS re-entry. During the WEEKS
between the first two re-entries (Taylor and the 3rd ship) and the
third re-entry (Brent), the Earth's position in its orbit around the
Sun would've changed by MILLIONS of miles. The only
possible "trajectory" that Brent could hope to follow that would get
him within 50 miles of Taylor's landing zone would be an ORBITAL-TO-
SURFACE re-entry trajectory -- NOT an across-the-Universe flight to
Earth LATER on in the year, after the Earth has moved at the rate of
1.6 million miles per day from where it was when Taylor's ship landed
on it to where Earth was weeks later, when Brent did his re-entry
burn.

It's evident that Brent did not have enough time to do
any "navigational estimate" before the re-entry maneuver. He'd hoped
to check out their navigational data AFTER they landed... but the
crash caused a fire that had to be put out, and Skipper wasn't any
help (being blind and injured mortally), and by the time the fire was
under control the ship's computer was kaput. The only "navigational
estimate" Brent could hope to do THEN was WITHOUT any computer help.
He would've had to eyeball it. Maybe he has a starmap in the ship,
showing how the sky should look from the surface of their destination
planet, 320 lightyears out in Orion. If he can see stars in the sky
that are in the same patterns as on such a starmap, then he MIGHT be
able to figure out how far their ship travelled -- IF he can see the
stars at night, that is.

Are the stars visible at night? They WEREN'T during the 3 days or so
when Taylor, Dodge, and Landon trekked across the Forbidden Zone, due
to the "cloud cover at night".

But, in "ESCAPE", when Cornelius and Zira see the Los Angeles skyline
from a distance, he says wondrously, "Like stars in space. It's
beautiful." And Zira replies, "It is... from here."

In other words, the night sky above the Ape City area is NOT always
covered by clouds, since the Apes have obviously seen the stars at
night often enough to compare the lights of L.A. to them.

As for Brent being too busy with re-entry to look out the window at
the landforms of the planet he hopes to successfully land on... well,
I think that looking out the window would be part of the job. If they
didn't NEED windows in the front of these ships, why did their
designers include them? They could just as easily enclosed the ship
inside opaque hull-materials, relying on external cameras to show on
computer screens what it looks like outside from any vantage point
(fore, aft, port, starboard, zenith, nadir). I would argue that fore-
ward looking windows are functional necessities to the flight
characteristics of this vehicle. Admittedly, this is just my
interpretation, but I fail to see how it doesn't make sense.

Patrick

Neil, I always liked that line as well. Beneath was always my least
favorite of the movies, but I always remembered that one line as a kid. It
was memorable.

Melinda

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
>There's a show on tonight (June 21st) on CBS of the usual AFI crap.�
POTA made the list at #66.
>66. ''Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape,'' ''Planet
of the Apes,'' 1968.

-- Seems like a fair ranking to me. Personally my favourite line from
any of the movies is the 'the only good human is a dead human' line
from Beneath.

Neil

Was it based on a racial comment ie "The only good negro is a dead
negro"? (that's putting it mildly).

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Melinda G Kettler
Sent: Thursday, 23 June 2005 7:29 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Digest Number 1637

Neil, I always liked that line as well. Beneath was always my least
favorite of the movies, but I always remembered that one line as a kid.
It
was memorable.

Melinda

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
>There's a show on tonight (June 21st) on CBS of the usual AFI crap.Â
POTA made the list at #66.
>66. ''Get your stinking paws off me, you damned dirty ape,'' ''Planet
of the Apes,'' 1968.

-- Seems like a fair ranking to me. Personally my favourite line from
any of the movies is the 'the only good human is a dead human' line
from Beneath.

Neil

.html

In a message dated 6/22/2005 5:00:14 P.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Was it based on a racial comment ie "The only good negro is a dead
negro"?  (that's putting it mildly).

I'd say that's a fair bet, since Ursus talks about humans not being

evil simply because their skin is white -- which I guess compared

to the apes they were, particularly the gorillas -- though being out

side all they time they were as tan as field hands.  But the writing

in Beneath is so heavy handed it makes the original seem subtle.

 

 

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/22/05 1:28:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** "PLANET" itself wasn't a one-man/mastermind work of brilliance,
either. It took Serling & Wilson AND a third, uncredited dude (John
T. Kelley) to give us a script. It took dozens of primary crewpersons
to design & shoot the film (all the credited crew) as well as
hundreds of uncredited make-up artists, etc. And most of the main
people involved in "PLANET" were also involved in the making
of "BENEATH" -- including such "mess-makers" as Maurice Evans and Kim
Hunter, Mort Abrahams & Bill Creber & John Chambers. Every f'ing time
you slag "BENEATH" you heap slurs on THEM, Rory. The same people you
PRAISE for their work on "PLANET" you INSULT for their work
on "BENEATH", "ESCAPE", etc.

Wilson, Serling, Kelley and Schaffner weren't involved in BENEATH, and as can be seen by the results they were sorely missed.  Those that worked on BENEATH were obviously the less talented.  Most of the mess that is BENEATH I blame on Abrahams.  I've read memos he wrote about changes he wanted in PLANET that showed how dangerous he was.  Thank the Lawgiver for Schaffner.

Did the ones who made "PLANET" -- and who made Cornelius' Map --
believe that YOUR interpretation is what they intended (where Dead
Lake is Chesapeake Bay)? Those SAME people in charge of
making "BENEATH" (Mort Abrahams, et al.) obviously saw it all
happening NEAR the Forbidden Zone that formerly was the NEW YORK CITY
area,

Which only proves they weren't paying attention to the details in PLANET!

which is why the Mutants live in the remains of NYC and NOT the

remains of Washington D.C.! If they had intended the main part of the
Forbidden Zone to represent the Washington D.C. area, they could
EASILY have set "BENEATH" in the remnants of that area, where Mendez
XXVI interrogates Brent in the ruins of the Capitol Building,
perhaps, instead of Grand Central Station in NYC.

Let's take a look at your little overlay maps, and see just how
RIDICULOUS it is. Compare a non-topographical map of the same area
you've taken of the Delaware/Maryland/Virginia area to Cornelius'
Map, and what does it tell you?

You would have Norfolk, Virginia -- a major military base, since U.S.
Naval aircraft carriers (etc) are docked there as often as not -- be
on the LEFT side of the dashed line demarcating the Forbidden Zone on
the RIGHT from the inhabited areas on the LEFT. It would be on that
little peninsula right where the river(s) flow into the Ocean, on
Cornelius' Map.

Where the hell are the ruins of the Norfolk, Virginia area??? If
anything, THAT area would be nuked into oblivion as well, and the
dashed line would have to be moved further to the LEFT, so as to
include it in the "deadly" areas.

In your interpretation, the "mountains" that Taylor and his crew trek
through, from the Raft to the Hunt area, represent the Washington
D.C. area, rather than the New York City area. And Cornelius' cave
must be somewhere along the Atlantic coast of Maryland or perhaps
Delaware. And, from there, it would be at least 200 MILES further up
the coast before Taylor reached the remains of the Statue of Liberty.

And as far as I'm concerned there's no reason to think that Taylor couldn't have ridden 200 miles up the coast before he found the Statue of Liberty.  You say it's impossible that he did because the movie doesn't plainly show that, but I say that there's an internal logic, based on my belief that things would still be pretty much where they presently are, that leaves the possibility open.  As far as I'm concerned the Statue is pretty much in the same spot where in stands in the present.  The ocean level has dropped and the cliff beside it is the side of Liberty Island!

I suppose that Taylor and Nova could've spent some of the DAYS it
would've taken them to travel that far to stop off at, oh, ATLANTIC
CITY (which is in-between NYC and the part of your Map where the Cave
must be), to do some gambling. Maybe catch a show. I'm sure there's a
Mutant Elvis impersonator still doin' shows at Atlantic City in 3955,
3978, whenever.

Patrick, why don't you ever talk about how STUPID it is in BENEATH that Brent finds a subway station in what was Queens, NY, which is EAST of NYC, when everything in PLANET indicates that it takes place WEST and SOUTH of NYC?  And why don't you ever talk about how RIDICULOUS it seems to be in BENEATH that Brent appears to walk just a short distance down the subway tracks -- and there's the underground ruins of NYC!!!!

BENEATH makes it look as if Ape City and NYC are right next door to each other!  Why does the gorilla army bother marching into the Forbidden Zone when all they had to do was find the same subway entrance right at the edge of one of their greenbelts that Brent does?  Oh, I forgot -- that's exactly what they did!  Well, that only goes to show that even within BENEATH itself the movie makes no sense!

Rory, the resemblance between Dead Lake and Chesapeake Bay is
SUPERFICIAL. The map Cornelius drew depicts the convoluted shoreline
of the lake Taylor's ship landed in the SAME way that the
establishing shots of the "sinking" scene show of Lake Powell. The
Map does not and CANNOT depict an area as huge as what you interpret,
based solely on the meager resemblance of Dead Lake to Chesapeake
Bay. Look at the overhead shots in the early scenes of "PLANET" to
see what Dead Lake looks like from above (the Lake Powell area,
especially the PADRE BAY section), and compare THAT to Cornelius'
Map, and that gives you a better idea of how much area is covered by
the Map.

And there ARE NO MOUNTAINS on either side of Chesapeake Bay! Even
your topological map shows that! But Cornelius' Map DOES show
mountainous areas surrounding Dead Lake -- they're the BROWN-colored
areas, one of which Zira says represents the "mountains" Taylor
trekked across from the Lake before he "reached the jungle".

But Patrick, aren't I allowed the possibility of phenomenal topographic changes that your precious scenario also enjoys?

It's "sad and pathetic" that your tunnel-vision regarding Chesapeake
Bay keeps you from seeing the obvious: that even if they had never
made "BENEATH" the Map Cornelius shows to Taylor CANNOT represent the
area you insist it covers. If a low-lying area like
Maryland/Virginia/Delaware could be upthrust to become "mountains"
then a hell of a lot more damage would've been done to the Earth's
topography, too. But you insist that "not f***ing much" has changed,
just the dropping of the sea level, somehow. Which would've meant
that the Cave where Cornelius found his 20th Century artifacts
would've been UNDERWATER in our time.

Patrick, what you've failed to consider that what you call mountains on Cornelius' map may in actuality be the buttes that we see in the film, and in fact that's what I think they are -- and I also believe that the buttes are made up not just of rock from the earth, but the rubble of the megalopolis that was once there and that stretched from Washington, DC to Boston, Mass.

I've never thought that the so-called "mountains areas" of Cornelius' map (the dark brown areas) represented anything other than the hill-sized buttes of the Forbidden Zone -- and neither should you, Patrick!  This just shows how you constantly misinterpret things!

If you want to resort to insults like "anus..." and "sad and
pathetic", well, I can't stop you (and I'd rather this Group's
owners/moderators didn't either). I've tried to "respectfully"
disagree with you on this, Rory, but you're going out of your way to
be an insult-slingin' jerk about this. All 'cuz you hate Dehn and
everything that was a sequel to "PLANET". Rory, you're the ONLY one
in POTA fandom who seems to be a "PLANET"-ONLY-MATTERS agitator.
Other fans of POTA-dom like the sequel movies & TV show (etc) with
various levels of appreciation, and most will readily admit that the
1st film is indeed the best of 'em... but it wasn't the ONLY one.
Whether you like it or not, they made MORE movies... a TV show... etc
etc etc. Dehn didn't force his way into 20th Century Fox and COMPEL
them to make movies out of his scripts -- THEY GOT HIM to write
scripts for THEM. And they sounded off on 'em, and THAT
made 'em 'canon' as far as I'm concerned (

and that doesn't keep them from being the not-so-good movies that they are!  Just read any serious critical examination of PLANET's sequels, even from SF aficionados and you'll find that I'm far from being in the minority!). And Roddy & Kim & a whole
bunch of others involved in the 1st film also were involved in the
making of the other films, to one degree or another.

You get ahold of that and hang onto it, or you might as well drop
dead!

Patrick



Someday I will!  And so will you!  And you know what, Patrick?  In the fullness of time the sequels will become ever sillier and sillier looking, but the original will always be regarded as a classic! <.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/22/05 2:17:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Admittedly, this is just my
interpretation, but I fail to see how it doesn't make sense.

Patrick

What doesn't make sense is trying to make sense out of BENEATH!

Good God!  What an idiot occupation!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/22/05 2:17:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

After BOTH those ships had gone down along that same flightpath
("Taylor's trajectory"), the 3rd ship's crew radio'd up that
telemetry to their orbiting Command ship, and at some point -- WEEKS
later -- the Command ship transmitted that same telemetric
information over to Skipper/Brent's ship while they were still
hibernating away, to conserve on air & food, so that they could later
make use of it when THEY did their re-entry burn, to land near
Taylor's spot.

Has it ever occurred to as odd, Patrick, that the astronauts in PLANET make no mention of there being another ship?  How does your brilliant scenario deal with that paradox?

Patrick, you make me so tired.

-- Rory<.html <.html

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In a message dated 6/22/2005 6:18:18 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

BENEATH makes it look as if Ape City and NYC are right next door to each other! 

 

I've wondered about that as well!  Taylor Zira & Co. road half the night,

and all the next day, at least, to get to anywhere near the Statue of

Liberty, and Brent has his little wagon ride, and a stroll, and in less

than a day he's in the New York Subway System!  Where was he?

New Jersey?  I would have though Ape City was further away than

that.  But maybe in the original they took the scenic route.  And

who was it arguing that the topography hadn't changed?  I don't

know of anyplace near NY that looks like the Grand Canyon.

 

 

 

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:32 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Map and Distances (Revised)

In a message dated 6/22/2005 6:18:18 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

BENEATH makes it look as if Ape City and NYC are right next door to each other! 

 

I've wondered about that as well!  Taylor Zira & Co. road half the night,

and all the next day, at least, to get to anywhere near the Statue of

Liberty, and Brent has his little wagon ride, and a stroll, and in less

than a day he's in the New York Subway System!  Where was he?

New Jersey?  I would have though Ape City was further away than

that.  But maybe in the original they took the scenic route.  And

who was it arguing that the topography hadn't changed?  I don't

know of anyplace near NY that looks like the Grand Canyon.

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/22/05 7:51:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

They simply gave no thought to it because they probably didn't think anyone would pick it up.

SLOPPY!

I think it's because BENEATH was, in many ways, made for a more juvenile audience.  It's just not as adult as the original.

-- Rory<.html <.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:50 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Beneath: who's fault was it?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A ... wrote:
>But the  writing in Beneath is so heavy handed it makes the original seem subtle.

 

--What I've read and heard about Beneath indicates to me that it was very much Mort Abrahams' vehicle. As Patrick mentioned in an earlier post a lot of the same people did work on Planet and Beneath but maybe Mort had too much control on the latter movie?
Isn't it true that Ted Post hated the idea of that 'student protest' scene and Mort went ahead and filmed and directed that scene himself just because he wanted it in the (his) film?
And didn't James Franciscus wanted more depth to his character of Brent and did even manage to get to do a couple of small re-writes of the script but nowhere near as much as he wanted to have it changed? 
So if it is such a bad movie, as some like to believe maybe the blame should be his and maybe not so much Dehn's.

 

Neil

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/22/05 7:51:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

So if it is such a bad movie, as some like to believe maybe the blame should be his and maybe not so much Dehn's.

Neil

I agree.  Abrahams is very much the villain here.  And just look at the expression on his face when he talks about how the film came out in that segment of the "Behind the Planet of the Apes" documentary?

Dehn really showed how good a writer he was when, free of Abrahams, he wrote ESCAPE.

-- Rory

<.html <.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:57 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Beneath: who's fault was it?

In a message dated 6/22/05 7:51:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

So if it is such a bad movie, as some like to believe maybe the blame should be his and maybe not so much Dehn's.

Neil

I agree.  Abrahams is very much the villain here.  And just look at the expression on his face when he talks about how the film came out in that segment of the "Behind the Planet of the Apes" documentary?

Dehn really showed how good a writer he was when, free of Abrahams, he wrote ESCAPE.

-- Rory

<.html

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        If you really want to blame someone for the fiasco that was Beneath you should blame the executives at Fox studios who cut the budget from 10 million to 3.5 million dollars. The studios rushed Beneath to the screen , not for the fans but to make money. I'm not blaming Abrahams and Dehn for Beneath, but I will blame Fox for this.

<.html

So I am not being blamed for once!  HOW NICE!  ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:57 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Beneath: who's fault was it?

In a message dated 6/22/05 7:51:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

So if it is such a bad movie, as some like to believe maybe the blame should be his and maybe not so much Dehn's.

Neil

I agree.  Abrahams is very much the villain here.  And just look at the expression on his face when he talks about how the film came out in that segment of the "Behind the Planet of the Apes" documentary?

Dehn really showed how good a writer he was when, free of Abrahams, he wrote ESCAPE.

-- Rory

---

Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of HollowedOut
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:00 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Beneath: who's fault was it?

Of COURSE it's your fault... dude... of course... yours... fault... yep... you!

 

 

-Chris

 

Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@...> wrote:

So I am not being blamed for once!  HOW NICE!  ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:57 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Beneath: who's fault was it?

In a message dated 6/22/05 7:51:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

So if it is such a bad movie, as some like to believe maybe the blame should be his and maybe not so much Dehn's.

Neil

<.html

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In a message dated 6/22/2005 6:51:16 P.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

So if it is such a bad movie, as some like to believe maybe the blame should be his and maybe not so much Dehn's.

 

Really the only thing it has going for it is it's the last one "One the Planet" so to speak.  Mutants?  Rescue Missions?  Almighty Bombs?  With stuff like that the background masks are the least of it's worries.  I still like it better than Beneath.  It's neck and neck with Conquest.

 

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In a message dated 6/22/2005 6:53:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I think it's because BENEATH was, in many ways, made for a more juvenile audience.  It's just not as adult as the original.

 

Thank you!  Spot on!

That is where they went off the rails.

They should have gone for a GP

rating. I think that hybrid kid would

have pretty much guaranteed that.

 

 

 

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In a message dated 6/22/2005 7:33:49 P.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:

It has been a very long time since I have watched "Escape".

 

I would think that everyone had see them enough times to have

virtually every line and frame permanently burned into their memories

like the menu on the screen of a very old ATM.

 

 

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