.html

I took the Thade comment to be a joke on Ty's part. Still, if he needed an aggressive chimp character to oppose Caesar, I wouldn't mind him borrowing the name Thade, or doing the same for any other 2001 character. Just as long as they don't try to mix the actual characters.

 

As far as the inclusion of the other characters, I took the line about 'mostly set between Conquest and Battle' to mean there would be parts of the story set during and around the other films. How those parts would link to the main story I have no idea. Perhaps a common object touched or seen by all the characters. Maybe there's just a thematic link (leaving a place you called home to start a new life elsewhere). I didn't take it to mean that Zaius would travel to Caesar's time and together they would dig up Hasslein's corpse and re-animate him and Mendez has to team up with a hologram of Taylor built by ANSA to train new astronauts so that they can defeat zombie-Hasslein. Because that would be silly. You'd want to wait until the 2nd mini-series to do that.

 

I'm with Alan. We should wait until we have more info, perhaps even the first issue, before we proclaim the new comic the 'final nail in the coffin'.

 

Greg

   To me, mixing pota 2001 and the original is like combining apples and oranges. They are two different universes. I am excited about this comic and can't wait until it comes out. I'll pass out happy pills so we can stop thinking along the lines of "the nail in the coffin". Elaine 

<.html

Damn, now I REALLY can't wait to read exactly what is going on.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
> group.
>
> File : /Going Home/GH preview panels.jpg
> Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@h...>
> Description :
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Going%20Home/GH%
20preview%20panels.jpg
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> munkeyman63au <nfoster@h...>

.html

<.html

looking good there ,.....pencis....!

TIm



--- Neil <nfoster@...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
> <Michael.Whitty@d...>
> wrote:
> > If Neil agrees I COULD send some PENCILS.....
>
> -- How about I just cobble together some of the
> panels from pages 11
> to 13 (I really don't want to give away any of the
> story though) and
> upload them to the files section in the Going Home
> folder? No? Too
> late, I've alredy done it!
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Greg Plonowski <urko3085@s...> wrote:
> > I didn't take it to mean that Zaius would travel to Caesar's time
> and together they would dig up Hasslein's corpse and re-animate him
> and Mendez has to team up with a hologram of Taylor built by ANSA to
> train new astronauts so that they can defeat zombie-Hasslein.
>
> -- Hey Greg great ideas! Whitty can we do something with this? ;-)

Hey, Michael's right - I'd pay good money to see a story like Greg
described! Throw in some more brains in jars and I'm there!

Alan

Well, I talked to Satan and he said this article really upset him.
Then he went back to watching Dexter's Lab and eating Dorito's.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@a... wrote:
> What does everyone think of this article? It's kind of POTA
related to the
> real world.
>
> Let's Have No More Monkey Trials
> To teach faith as science is to undermine both
>
> by Charles Krauthammer, Time Magazine
>
> The half-century campaign to eradicate any vestige of religion from
public
> life has run its course. The backlash from a nation fed up with the
A.C.L.U.
> kicking crèches out of municipal Christmas displays has created a
new balance.
> State-supported universities may subsidize the activities of
student religious
> groups. Monuments inscribed with the Ten Commandments are permitted
on
> government grounds. The Federal Government is engaged in a major
antipoverty
> initiative that gives money to churches. Religion is back out of
the closet.
>
>
> But nothing could do more to undermine this most salutary
restoration than
> the new and gratuitous attempts to invade science, and most
particularly
> evolution, with religion. Have we learned nothing? In Kansas,
conservative
> school-board members are attempting to rewrite statewide standards
for teaching
> evolution to make sure that creationism's modern stepchild,
intelligent design,
> infiltrates the curriculum. Similar anti-Darwinian mandates are
already in place in
> Ohio and are being fought over in 20 states. And then, as if to
second the
> evangelical push for this tarted-up version of creationism, out of
the blue
> appears a declaration from Christoph Cardinal Schönborn of Vienna,
a man very close
> to the Pope, asserting that the supposed acceptance of evolution by
John Paul
> II is mistaken. In fact, he says, the Roman Catholic Church rejects
> "neo-Darwinism" with the declaration that an "unguided evolutionary
process--one that
> falls outside the bounds of divine providence--simply cannot exist."
>
> Cannot? On what scientific evidence? Evolution is one of the most
powerful
> and elegant theories in all of human science and the bedrock of all
modern
> biology. Schönborn's proclamation that it cannot exist unguided--
that it is driven
> by an intelligent designer pushing and pulling and planning and
shaping the
> process along the way--is a perfectly legitimate statement of
faith. If he and
> the Evangelicals just stopped there and asked that intelligent
design be
> included in a religion curriculum, I would support them. The
scandal is to teach
> this as science--to pretend, as does Schönborn, that his statement
of faith is a
> defense of science. "The Catholic Church," he says, "will again
defend human
> reason" against "scientific theories that try to explain away the
appearance of
> design as the result of 'chance and necessity,'" which "are not
scientific at
> all." Well, if you believe that science is reason and that reason
begins with
> recognizing the existence of an immanent providence, then this is
science.
> But, of course, it is not. This is faith disguised as science.
Science begins
> not with first principles but with observation and experimentation.
>
> In this slippery slide from "reason" to science, Schönborn is a
direct
> descendant of the early 17th century Dutch clergyman and astronomer
David Fabricius,
> who could not accept Johannes Kepler's discovery of elliptical
planetary
> orbits. Why? Because the circle is so pure and perfect that reason
must reject
> anything less. "With your ellipse," Fabricius wrote Kepler, "you
abolish the
> circularity and uniformity of the motions, which appears to me
increasingly absurd
> the more profoundly I think about it." No matter that, using Tycho
Brahe's
> most exhaustive astronomical observations in history, Kepler had
empirically
> demonstrated that the planets orbit elliptically.
>
> This conflict between faith and science had mercifully abated over
the past
> four centuries as each grew to permit the other its own independent
sphere.
> What we are witnessing now is a frontier violation by the forces of
religion.
> This new attack claims that because there are gaps in evolution,
they therefore
> must be filled by a divine intelligent designer.
>
> How many times do we have to rerun the Scopes "monkey trial"? There
are gaps
> in science everywhere. Are we to fill them all with divinity? There
were gaps
> in Newton's universe. They were ultimately filled by Einstein's
revisions.
> There are gaps in Einstein's universe, great chasms between it and
quantum
> theory. Perhaps they are filled by God. Perhaps not. But it is
certainly not science
> to merely declare it so.
>
>
> To teach faith as science is to undermine the very idea of science,
which is
> the acquisition of new knowledge through hypothesis,
experimentation and
> evidence. To teach it as science is to encourage the supercilious
caricature of
> America as a nation in the thrall of religious authority. To teach
it as science
> is to discredit the welcome recent advances in permitting the
public
> expression of religion. Faith can and should be proclaimed from
every mountaintop and
> city square. But it has no place in science class. To impose it on
the teaching
> of evolution is not just to invite ridicule but to earn it.

Attachments :

Here's a new comparison of Caesar and his new Sideshow
face......

Tim

--- luke_the_drifter52 <JLKINSER1970@...>
wrote:

> His hairline is too high to be Cornelius. I think
> they did a pretty
> good job on him for the most part
> I will proably start a fight but I like this sculpt
> better than the
> Cornelius head they were using. I think for the most
> part the
> Sideshow stuff was very well done. I know a lot of
> you disagree with
> that and that is ok; that is your opinion and you
> have that right.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /TG art 001.jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description : Superboy art by Tom Grummett 01

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/TG%20art%20001.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:08 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Sideshow Caesar

Here's a new comparison of Caesar and his new Sideshow
face......

Tim

--- luke_the_drifter52 <JLKINSER1970@...>
wrote:

>  His hairline is too high to be Cornelius. I think
> they did a pretty
> good job on him for the most part
>  I will proably start a fight but I like this sculpt
> better than the
> Cornelius head they were using. I think for the most
> part the
> Sideshow stuff was very well done. I know a lot of
> you disagree with
> that and that is ok; that is your opinion and you
> have that right.

<.html

Look, I'm just as excited as the rest of you and as a fellow comic
geek I am too happy with the talent they have working on this
project. My "nail in the coffin" comment was strictly due to the fear
of them throwing all the classic characters into a 6 issue trial run
for the sake of having them in there. I even mentioned the
possibility of flashbacks etc. as a way this might work. People new
to the POTA universe won't care if Dr. Zaius is represented or not
and as a fan I am questionable as to how all these characters could
relate to a comic set during the ape riots and soon there after. I am
also wondering how solid their story is if they are wanting to know
what mistakes have been made in the past. Please don't get me wrong,
I think its great that they want the input. I just hope they aren't
throwing a story together for the sake of doing an Apes book without
a well thought out storyline already in mind. I have high hopes for
this project and have already alerted my local comic shop to watch
for new Planet of the Apes material for me. I am still excited by the
idea of seeing the Planet of the Apes logo in comic shops again.
(even if its not with Neil and Michael's name on it.) :)

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Greg Plonowski <urko3085@s...> wrote:
> I took the Thade comment to be a joke on Ty's part. Still, if he
needed an aggressive chimp character to oppose Caesar, I wouldn't
mind him borrowing the name Thade, or doing the same for any other
2001 character. Just as long as they don't try to mix the actual
characters.
>
> As far as the inclusion of the other characters, I took the line
about 'mostly set between Conquest and Battle' to mean there would be
parts of the story set during and around the other films. How those
parts would link to the main story I have no idea. Perhaps a common
object touched or seen by all the characters. Maybe there's just a
thematic link (leaving a place you called home to start a new life
elsewhere). I didn't take it to mean that Zaius would travel to
Caesar's time and together they would dig up Hasslein's corpse and re-
animate him and Mendez has to team up with a hologram of Taylor built
by ANSA to train new astronauts so that they can defeat zombie-
Hasslein. Because that would be silly. You'd want to wait until the
2nd mini-series to do that.
>
> I'm with Alan. We should wait until we have more info, perhaps even
the first issue, before we proclaim the new comic the 'final nail in
the coffin'.
>
> Greg
>
> luke_the_drifter52 <JLKINSER1970@h...> wrote:
> IO don't see how they can even count Thade!! I don't even consider
> the Tim Burton film Planet of the Apes material. If they include
some
> of his work, I won't buy the comic
> John

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:17 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] New file uploaded to PotaDG

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

  File        : /TG art 001.jpg
  Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
  Description : Superboy art by Tom Grummett 01

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/TG%20art%20001.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

<.html

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /TG art 002.jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description : Superboy art by Tom Grummett 02

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/TG%20art%20002.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:

> Tom Grummett is a fantastic artist.

-- Just to show what a great artist Tom Grummett is (and because I
just love talking apes in any comic) I have uploaded a page and some
selected panels from that Superboy 'Kamandi' story Alan & I mentioned
to the group's files section.

Remember though that these aren't POTA apes but are based on the work
of Jack Kirby from the original Kamandi series.

I really would love to see what Grummett would do if he got a shot at
pencilling an Apes story or two.

Neil

These looked great. Kind of reminds me of the Neal Adams Power Records
artwork.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> > Tom Grummett is a fantastic artist.
>
> -- Just to show what a great artist Tom Grummett is (and because I
> just love talking apes in any comic) I have uploaded a page and some
> selected panels from that Superboy 'Kamandi' story Alan & I
mentioned
> to the group's files section.
>
> Remember though that these aren't POTA apes but are based on the
work
> of Jack Kirby from the original Kamandi series.
>
> I really would love to see what Grummett would do if he got a shot
at
> pencilling an Apes story or two.
>
> Neil

YEs he does! I think the top of his head is too
pointy!

--- "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@...>
wrote:

> Thanks Tim
>
> The eyes really bother me.
>
> Looks like he is doing poos.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tim
> "apefan"
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:08 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Sideshow Caesar
>
>
>
> Here's a new comparison of Caesar and his new
> Sideshow
> face......
>
> Tim
>
> --- luke_the_drifter52 <JLKINSER1970@...>
> wrote:
>
> > His hairline is too high to be Cornelius. I think
> > they did a pretty
> > good job on him for the most part
> > I will proably start a fight but I like this
> sculpt
> > better than the
> > Cornelius head they were using. I think for the
> most
> > part the
> > Sideshow stuff was very well done. I know a lot of
> > you disagree with
> > that and that is ok; that is your opinion and you
> > have that right.
>
>
>
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:27 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Sideshow Caesar

YEs he does! I think the top of his head is too
pointy!

--- "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@...>
wrote:

> Thanks Tim
> 
> The eyes really bother me.
> 
> Looks like he is doing poos.
> 
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Tim
> "apefan"
> Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 8:08 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Sideshow Caesar
>
>
>
> Here's a new comparison of Caesar and his new
> Sideshow
> face......
>
> Tim
>
> --- luke_the_drifter52 <JLKINSER1970@...>
> wrote:

<.html

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Kamandi #3 p6 & 7.jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description : Kamandi double page spread featuring 'Ape Town USA'

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Kamandi%20%233%20p6%20%26%207.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

Whilst I am in 'Kamandi related scanning mode' I thought some of you
might be interested in this double page thread from issue #3 (just
uploaded to the files section for a limited time.)
It features 'Ape Town USA' where the gorillas take Kamandi after
catching him earlier in the story.
I particularly like the idea of the 'transit ropes' myself.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:

>in this double page thread from issue #3

-- Of course I meant double page SPREAD. I'm still having trouble
spelling for some reason!

Pencis

.html

You should watch the commerical.....it's funny

<.html

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Bomb Worship.jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description : Kamandi panel featuring bomb worship

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Bomb%20Worship.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

And just for the heck of it here are (files section again) 3 panels
from Kamandi #1 showing the Tigers worshiping their 'god'.

Neil

That's funny...

"Keep us strong O warhead"....!

--- PotaDG@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know
> that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
> PotaDG
> group.
>
> File : /Bomb Worship.jpg
> Uploaded by : munkeyman63au
> <nfoster@...>
> Description : Kamandi panel featuring bomb worship
>
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Bomb%20Worship.jpg

>
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group,
> please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I think the one distinguishing characteristic of Caesar that always
stood out was his eyes. The picture comparisons really show that
(thanks Tim). The new sideshow Caesar is a valiant attempt and a hell
of a lot better than just sticking the old Cornelius head on a Caesar
suited body, but it doesn't look 100% right. Good, but not perfect.

In any case my opinion of sideshow has not changed. Nice stuff but
still too overpriced.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...>
Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2005 6:08 pm
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Sideshow Caesar

>
> Here's a new comparison of Caesar and his new Sideshow
> face......
>
> Tim
>
> --- luke_the_drifter52 <JLKINSER1970@...>
> wrote:
>
> > His hairline is too high to be Cornelius. I think
> > they did a pretty
> > good job on him for the most part
> > I will proably start a fight but I like this sculpt
> > better than the
> > Cornelius head they were using. I think for the most
> > part the
> > Sideshow stuff was very well done. I know a lot of
> > you disagree with
> > that and that is ok; that is your opinion and you
> > have that right.
>
>

Thanks for posting the page excerpts Neil. This storyline actually
looks very interesting. Can you eleborate as to what are the issue
numbers and or publishing dates so that those who are interested can
track these issues down?

I actually have a whole bunch of Superboys that I have not read so I
may already have some of these (I buy a lot of old comics that I do
not read until I have completed large continguous sets. These include
the many Batman, Superman titles and among many others,... SUPERBOY!)

The apes shown are not 'classic' apes, but they sure are close
especially because of the clothing.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil <nfoster@...>
Date: Tuesday, August 2, 2005 6:20 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Comics news : my thoughts

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> > Tom Grummett is a fantastic artist.
>
> -- Just to show what a great artist Tom Grummett is (and because I
> just love talking apes in any comic) I have uploaded a page and
> some
> selected panels from that Superboy 'Kamandi' story Alan & I
> mentioned
> to the group's files section.
>
> Remember though that these aren't POTA apes but are based on the
> work
> of Jack Kirby from the original Kamandi series.
>
> I really would love to see what Grummett would do if he got a shot
> at
> pencilling an Apes story or two.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ --------------------
> ~-->
> <font face=arial size=-
>
1>http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hss3n9r/M=362335.6886444.7839734.257544
9/D=groups/S=1705021437:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1123028432/A=2894362/R=0/SIG=138
c78jl6/*http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/arts_culture/?
source=YAHOO&cmpgn=GRP&RTP=http://groups.yahoo.com/">What would our
lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in
the arts today at Network for Good.</font>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Dario Sciola <darios@n...> wrote:

> Thanks for posting the page excerpts Neil. This storyline actually

looks very interesting. Can you eleborate as to what are the issue
numbers and or publishing dates so that those who are interested can
track these issues down?

-- Glad to be of service Dario. The 'Kamandi homage' storyline ran
from Superboy issue #50 and finished with issue #53 and there was an
epilogue to the story in the first half of issue #54.

The dates are:
#50 April '98
#51 May '98
#52 June '98
#53 July '98
And
#54 August '98

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Greg Plonowski
Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 11:28 PM
To: friends & fugitives; pota; PotaDG
Subject: [PotaDG] Marvel UK issue 42

There's extra thrills in this extra-long installment of the Beneath adaptation. There are 15 pages of comics this week, as opposed to last week's 12 pages (that's a 25% increase with no increase in price), and they're needed for all the extra apes you get. The ape army is on the move while the mutants continue their interrogation of Brent, and there's a shock ending you won't see coming (unless you've already seen the film, of course).

 

Marvel UK issue 42 is now available to download from Hunter's site.

 

http://www.goatley.com/pota/

 

Thanks,

Greg

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> THANKS AGAIN!

-- Yes thanks once again Greg, your efforts are much appreciated (by
all I'm sure!)

Neil

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /TG art 003.jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description : Superboy art by Tom Grummett 03

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/TG%20art%20003.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Dario Sciola <darios@n...> wrote:

> Thanks for posting the page excerpts Neil. This storyline actually

looks very interesting.

-- I've just uploaded a final scan from this story to the files
section. I thought this one would be of interest as I think it would
make a great after Conquest type picture if it wasn't for the flying
bat creatures in the background.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> I have been asked to gather opinions and copmments related to the

announcement this morning about comics stories.
What should the writers keep in mind?
What errors were made in Conquest and Battle (eg Mandeamus' age)?
All comments will be summarised and passed on.

-- I have been thinking about this new comic a lot in the last
couple of days.
I really do hope they can clear up a few of the 'mistakes' and
explain them when they do this story. Like you mentioned, the whole
age of Mandeamus thing and just how much time has elapsed between
Conquest and Battle? I did watch Battle a couple of weeks ago and
one of the mutants mentioned breaking the peace after ? years (sorry
can't remember the figure)
Of course I would also like them to explain how, in Conquest, they
got their ape feet in those human shoes. ;-)

One thing I do hope they keep in mind is having any stories stay
true to the Classic POTA we all love, I really don't want even the
slightest attempt to tie any of it to the 2001 movie.

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:31 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I have been asked to gather opinions and copmments related to the
announcement this morning about comics stories.
What should the writers keep in mind?
What errors were made in Conquest and Battle (eg Mandeamus' age)?
All comments will be summarised and passed on.

-- I have been thinking about this new comic a lot in the last
couple of days.
I really do hope they can clear up a few of the 'mistakes' and
explain them when they do this story. Like you mentioned, the whole
age of Mandeamus thing and just how much time has elapsed between
Conquest and Battle? I did watch Battle a couple of weeks ago and
one of the mutants mentioned breaking the peace after ? years (sorry
can't remember the figure)
Of course I would also like them to explain how, in Conquest, they
got their ape feet in those human shoes. ;-)

One thing I do hope they keep in mind is having any stories stay
true to the Classic POTA we all love, I really don't want even the
slightest attempt to tie any of it to the 2001 movie.

Neil

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:31 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> I have been asked to gather opinions and copmments related to the
announcement this morning about comics stories.
What should the writers keep in mind?
What errors were made in Conquest and Battle (eg Mandeamus' age)?
All comments will be summarised and passed on.

-- I have been thinking about this new comic a lot in the last
couple of days.
I really do hope they can clear up a few of the 'mistakes' and
explain them when they do this story. Like you mentioned, the whole
age of Mandeamus thing and just how much time has elapsed between
Conquest and Battle? I did watch Battle a couple of weeks ago and
one of the mutants mentioned breaking the peace after ? years (sorry
can't remember the figure)
Of course I would also like them to explain how, in Conquest, they
got their ape feet in those human shoes. ;-)

One thing I do hope they keep in mind is having any stories stay
true to the Classic POTA we all love, I really don't want even the
slightest attempt to tie any of it to the 2001 movie.

Neil

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@y...> wrote:

> That's funny... "Keep us strong O warhead"....!

-- Yeah, I wonder where they got that idea from? ;-)

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> I like that they have made an effort but I am concerned that they

have gone ahead with sculpts before perfecting them.
"Too hard - who cares?"

-- I don't know, at least they have bothered to change the sculpt,
they didn't have to bother really. It shows that they must be
listening to the fans which makes a nice change!

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:55 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Sideshow Caesar

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:
> I like that they have made an effort but I am concerned that they
have gone ahead with sculpts before perfecting them.
"Too hard - who cares?"

-- I don't know, at least they have bothered to change the sculpt,
they didn't have to bother really. It shows that they must be
listening to the fans which makes a nice change!

Neil

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "John Brandon Kirtley"
<johnbkirtley@h...> wrote:

>After days of looking at every photo of all Roddys Make-ups I have

come to this conclusion:
POTA 1 New make-up very dark shading and rough hair and Roddy very
serious throughout.
POTA 3 New bottom jaw more flesh coloured all over and very well
groomed and thick hair. He smiles a lot in this film hence the
confusion with Sideshows Cornelius.
POTA 4 Same face sculpt but high hairline and wider beard line.
POTA 5 Same face but very thin flat hair pieces.
POTA TV First publicity shots have same muzzle but very large
bottom jaw piece with a more human facial hair line. I.e Less hair
on the face.
POTA TV Second publicity shots has a new sculpt wich has a longer
muzzle than the film version and a more rounded shorter chin. Very
short cropped hair but tight into the face.
POTA TV Actual shooting make-up. Long snout small chin and thicker
hair. This became the Galen we all fell in love with as he smiled a
lot as Gale and I think this is what makes people think the Side
show sculpt of Cornelius is too severe. But try and find a POTA 1
picture od Roddy smiling or watch the movie and I think you will
find Cornelius is a very serious young ape.

-- Thanks John, great bit of research!

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> What other questions do we need to address and what other things do

we need to consider?

-- Well it would be nice to know if they are going with a circular
timeline or not. The mention of incorporating Zaius etc. makes me
think that they are considering this.

Neil

Mandemus says that the armory has been his home for 27 years.
Perhaps that is where he was stationed as a slave for the humans and
he considers the ape armory the same. Much like saying I've managed a
video store for 12 years but changing from company to company doing
the same job for all that time.
Mendez says that they would break 12 years of peace if they fire on
the intruders to their city.
Perhaps MacDonald had knowledge of a safe refuge from the war and
had brought the human survivors to a shelter which Ceasar comes
across during one of his revolts and after learning who MacDonald was
and that the human refugees were not hostile to the apes he let them
live in exchange for MacDonald's help in avoiding the human nuclear
war, which was much worse than any ape revolution. It would also help
to explain why MacDonald is so trusted. Just some ideas.





--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

> Here's a rough list.
>
> Guys and gals, I really need help here!
>
> I said I would get this list off in a couple of days....
>
> (1) how much time has elapsed between Conquest and Battle?
>
> - Mandemus mentions ?? years he has worked in the armory;
> - what other clues do we have?
>
> (2) how did the apes evolve to talk so incredibly quickly?
>
> (3) how did the apes get to escape to a city and be left unscathed

by the

> entire human population?
>
> What other questions do we need to address and wht other things do

we need

> to consider?
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On

Behalf Of

> Neil
> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:31 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > I have been asked to gather opinions and copmments related to the
> announcement this morning about comics stories.
> What should the writers keep in mind?
> What errors were made in Conquest and Battle (eg Mandeamus' age)?
> All comments will be summarised and passed on.
>
> -- I have been thinking about this new comic a lot in the last
> couple of days.
> I really do hope they can clear up a few of the 'mistakes' and
> explain them when they do this story. Like you mentioned, the whole
> age of Mandeamus thing and just how much time has elapsed between
> Conquest and Battle? I did watch Battle a couple of weeks ago and
> one of the mutants mentioned breaking the peace after ? years

(sorry

> can't remember the figure)
> Of course I would also like them to explain how, in Conquest, they
> got their ape feet in those human shoes. ;-)
>
> One thing I do hope they keep in mind is having any stories stay
> true to the Classic POTA we all love, I really don't want even the
> slightest attempt to tie any of it to the 2001 movie.
>
> Neil
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "John" <DrZaiusDavis@a...> wrote:

> Mandemus says that the armory has been his home for 27 years.

Perhaps that is where he was stationed as a slave for the humans and
he considers the ape armory the same.
Mendez says that they would break 12 years of peace if they fire on
the intruders to their city.

-- What really needs to be determined is when any wars took place.
If we assume it was within a year or two after the events of
Conquest, then taking into the accounts of the length of time given
by the two characters above it would mean that Mandemus would have
to have started working in an armoury some time around 1976/8! If
this is correct doesn't it stuff up the dates given in Conquest for
when the apes were first taken in as pets and then slaves?

Also what is Mendez was talking about when he mentions the 12 years
of peace. Is that 12 years since they were fighting apes or the
humans warring amongst themselves?

Neil

.html.html In a message dated 8/3/2005 5:31:33 PM Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

I did watch Battle a couple of weeks ago and
one of the mutants mentioned breaking the peace after ? years (sorry
can't remember the figure)

The line about breaking 12 years of peace could mean that while the main war is long over, there still might have been smaller skirmishes between the apes and (mutant) humans... The last of those smaller battles might have been 12 years previous to the story of BATTLE...

<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 8/3/2005 5:43:25 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

- Mandemus mentions ?? years he has worked in the armory;
He says that the armory has been his home for 27 years...
(2) how did the apes evolve to talk so incredibly quickly?
Poor writing... They just wanted BATTLE to be an immediate sequel to CONQUEST, so they just evolved all the servant apes overnight so they'd have some continuity. They wanted to carry on with Caesar, etc. so they just rushed everything along so they could do their poorly thought out sequel...


<.html<.html

.html.html In a message dated 8/3/2005 6:46:01 PM Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

Mandemus says that the armory has been his home for 27 years.
Perhaps that is where he was stationed as a slave for the humans and
he considers the ape armory the same. Much like saying I've managed a
video store for 12 years but changing from company to company doing
the same job for all that time.

This I agree with... It's something I thought for a long time, but I like the way you put it...

<.html <.html

This one is especially cool because the only other
thing I collect besides POTA are BATS!!!!! Bats are
cool!

Tim

--- PotaDG@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know
> that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the
> PotaDG
> group.
>
> File : /TG art 003.jpg
> Uploaded by : munkeyman63au
> <nfoster@...>
> Description : Superboy art by Tom Grummett 03
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
>

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/TG%20art%20003.jpg

>
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group,
> please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I agree Neil.....no POTA2001! And I also hope that all
the characters mentioned are in flashback
only....Altho none of the characters could flashback
to Zaius and company ....they would have to flash
forward!!!!

Tim

--- Neil <nfoster@...> wrote:

>
> One thing I do hope they keep in mind is having any
> stories stay
> true to the Classic POTA we all love, I really don't
> want even the
> slightest attempt to tie any of it to the 2001
> movie.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>

__________________________________

Attachments :

On Aug 3, 2005, at 7:13 p.m., Neil wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John" <DrZaiusDavis@a...> wrote:
>
>> Mandemus says that the armory has been his home for 27 years.
>>
> Perhaps that is where he was stationed as a slave for the humans and
> he considers the ape armory the same.
> Mendez says that they would break 12 years of peace if they fire on
> the intruders to their city.
>
> -- What really needs to be determined is when any wars took place.
> If we assume it was within a year or two after the events of
> Conquest, then taking into the accounts of the length of time given
> by the two characters above it would mean that Mandemus would have
> to have started working in an armoury some time around 1976/8! If
> this is correct doesn't it stuff up the dates given in Conquest for
> when the apes were first taken in as pets and then slaves?
>
> Also what is Mendez was talking about when he mentions the 12 years
> of peace. Is that 12 years since they were fighting apes or the
> humans warring amongst themselves?
>
> Neil

I am glad that you wrote them Michael. I wrote them also and received
a reply at the first of the week.
The reply was dissapointing though. The lady who wrote me said that
at the moment their are not any Apes in production. BUT, the fans
really need to wirte them and let them know to continue the Ape line.
She stated even though their are none in production right now, they
have been presuaded in the past to pick a line back up just because
of letters written buy the collectors.
The guy I bought my Exclusive Ursus off of said that he heard the
same thing. His rep ate Sideshow said that the Mutants, especially
the jailer Mutant, were selling really poor. They may not even
produce the jailer according to him. (They had better because I am
having a custom jail made to display my Talor and Brent and Mutant
in!!)
So, we need to flood Sideshow with letters and emails asking for more
Apes. I have done both.
John

In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> Yes, that certainly IS the positive side of it and that's why I

have written

> to ask them to continue the POTA line.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On

Behalf Of

> Neil
> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:55 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Sideshow Caesar
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"

<Michael.Whitty@d...>

> wrote:
> > I like that they have made an effort but I am concerned that they
> have gone ahead with sculpts before perfecting them.
> "Too hard - who cares?"
>
> -- I don't know, at least they have bothered to change the sculpt,
> they didn't have to bother really. It shows that they must be
> listening to the fans which makes a nice change!
>
> Neil
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John" <DrZaiusDavis@a...> wrote:
> > Mandemus says that the armory has been his home for 27 years.
> Perhaps that is where he was stationed as a slave for the humans

and he considers the ape armory the same. Mendez says that they would
break 12 years of peace if they fire on the intruders to their city.

>
> -- What really needs to be determined is when any wars took place.

If we assume it was within a year or two after the events of
Conquest, then taking into the accounts of the length of time given
by the two characters above it would mean that Mandemus would have to
have started working in an armoury some time around 1976/8! If this
is correct doesn't it stuff up the dates given in Conquest for when
the apes were first taken in as pets and then slaves?

>
> Also what is Mendez was talking about when he mentions the 12 years

of peace. Is that 12 years since they were fighting apes or the
humans warring amongst themselves?

>
> Neil

*** For the purposes of my own POTA project, I'm taking details
delivered on-screen as canon, which means that "CONQUEST" takes place
in 1991 (at the end of which Caesar FIRST acquires the arms that will
constitute his "armory") and "BATTLE" takes place at least (though
probably no more than) 27 years later, as per Mandemus' line.

It's an inconvenient line of dialogue, to be sure. Gerrold's
novelization changes the line to read: "Caesar, I must ask a favor.
This armory has been my home for many, many years." In his first
chapter, Gerrold states that Ape City was founded NINE years before
the events of "BATTLE", implying (I think) that "BATTLE" takes place
in the year 2000).

But the script -- and the actual filmed dialogue -- has Mandemus
being the keeper of Caesar's armory for 27 years.

Is he off his rocker? Is he that daft? Earlier in the film, after
Caesar, Virgil & MacDonald acquire their supplies for their trip to
the Forbidden City, MacDonald says: "He may be old, but he has a mind
like a razor."

That can only mean that he knows for a certainty that he's been
guarding the guns -- the guns they acquired in "CONQUEST" -- for 27
years. Like it or not, that means that "BATTLE" has to occur in 2018
at the earliest, assuming that the site where they keep the guns was
established SOON after the ending of "CONQUEST", before the year 1991
was over and done with.

Mendez' line, referring to a 12-year peace that Kolp would be
breaking with his assault on Ape City, could refer to any
hypothetical armed conflict that Kolp's community may have been
involved with... but I prefer to think that it refers to the NUCLEAR
WAR, which we know happened sometime between "CONQUEST" and "BATTLE".

Thus, 12 years before 2018 would put the Nuke War in 2006... Hey!
That's next year!

I, for one, don't and can't buy the notion that Mandemus worked as a
slave at a HUMAN ARMORY prior to guarding over the guns that Caesar
acquired during the Revolt. Remember how Caesar had to forge those
Shopping cards in "CONQUEST", adding a gallon of kerosene to one, and
100 rounds of ammunition to another? That's how Caesar acquired his
initial armaments -- by forging those shopping card orders and by
having slave apes smuggle in knives from restaurants, etc. If he had
had access to actual firearms from a legit armory (via Mandemus), he
wouldn't have had to resort to the chicanery we see on-screen.

Besides, apes had only been enslaved less than EIGHT YEARS prior
to "CONQUEST" (the Pet Plague struck 8 years before, according to
Armando, at the Pet Memorial site), in 1983. Even if Apes had been
enslaved that very year -- 1983 -- AND Mandemus had been made to work
as a slave at a human armory then, that would place "BATTLE" in 2010
(1983 + 27), which is still inconveniently "late", being 19 years
after "CONQUEST".

That on-screen line of dialogue is inconvenient, but it's there and
it's canon as far as I'm concerned. That means that Caesar and Lisa
didn't beget-and-bear young Cornelius until well over a decade after
the events of "CONQUEST", since Cornelius is not portrayed as an
adult ape in his mid-to-late 20's, but rather as a boy just shy of
his teens.

In my scenario, Caesar leads his freed apes out of Breck's city
within a day of his victory on "The Night Of The Fires" -- because he
knows that National Guard troops are being dispatched to the site to
intervene. Caesar had to have formulated a plan for AFTER the armed
conflict; surely, he knew that even if he DID defeat Breck's riot
police, he would then have to deal with the Federal government's
armed forces. He would have studied maps of the region and picked a
place where he could take his people... away from the cities, back
into the non-populated forests, preferably, where they could fight
a 'guerrilla'-war, if need be. If they were found.

They're apes. They all have probably come from forested locales in
Africa and Indonesia, where slave-traders captured them in the first
place. The site has to be about 1 day's travel-time (on foot), since
a round-trip from Ape City to Breck's City and back is (according to
Virgil) a 3-day journey -- and they didn't have horses, for some
foolish reason. One day there, one day in/around/out of the City's
ruins, and one day back.

Perhaps, when they fled Breck's city, to go into a forested region
relatively nearby but not uncomfortably close, they found a ranch or
two... where there were HORSES. They acquired horses sometime before
the events of "BATTLE", and had a corral to keep 'em in. I doubt if
they would've gotten all their horses from Armando's circus. And it
isn't like there are bands of wild horses trotting around across the
U.S.A. anymore. A ranch or two would be a logical source for the
horses they eventually have -- and Caesar could teach 'em how to
ride, since he was a trained bare-back horserider in the circus.

Perhaps attempts were made to send strike teams into the forest, to
re-enslave the escaped apes. And, working with the same disadvantages
that the military faced in Vietnam, they were killed all-too-easily
by intelligent animals who know how to use their wooded terrain to
their advantage. Imagine: a strike team sent in... and nobody comes
out. They're killed, or captured and enslaved themselves. Perhaps
that's where some of Caesar's Ape City human population originated:
strike teams that were taken prisoner. Or, perhaps Caesar took a page
from the historical Vlad Tepes (whom Bram Stoker based his 'Dracula'
on)... and had human soldiers impaled or crucified -- as a warning
not to f*** with them. It worked against the Turks. I can imagine
several 'incidents' like this causing public opinion to turn, so that
they want the Government to leave the Apes alone in the forest, lest
they risk another massacre. How cruel would Caesar have had to be,
just to ensure the survival of his people during those crucial years
before the Nuke War obliterates the 'opposition'? Perhaps Caesar took
hostages, too, the way the Terrorists in Iraq have done: "Back off,
or we kill another hostage."

There are all sorts of possibilities. I just think that any scenario
should consider certain details as 'canon' -- including the plainly-
stated lines of Mandemus and Mendez. "BATTLE", thus, would take place
27 years after 1991, in 2018, which is 12 years after the last
outbreak of War from Mendez's point-of-view... perhaps THE war, the
Nuclear War, in 2006. Perhaps Caesar and Lisa had had other children
prior to the Nuke War... and lost them in armed skirmishes with
strike teams harrying their forested enclave. But... after the Nuke
War ends all opposition, they bring Cornelius into the world, so that
he's about 11 years old when "BATTLE" takes place.

Works for me, anyway.

Patrick

.html <.html

.html When I came home tonight from work, who is on my front stairs but General Ursus. I think the Sideshow sculpt of him is great, he looks much happier than Caesar, probably because he just wiped out some humans. He came with his gun. Another gorilla in my house. Elaine<.html

.html

This one is especially cool because the only other
thing I collect besides POTA are BATS!!!!! Bats are
cool!

Tim

 

  I always thought bats were interesting and don't deserve the bad reputation they have. I  have a few beanie baby bats. Elaine

>
>
>
>
>
>
>



       
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 8/3/2005 7:14:21 P.M. Central Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

Mandemus

 

If he was Virgil's teacher how old is Virgil?

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/3/2005 6:46:00 P.M. Central Daylight Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

Mandemus says that the armory has been his home for 27 years.

 

Dog years?

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/3/2005 9:27:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, apefan23@... writes:

Bats are cool!

 

Yeah, I wanted a bat as a kid.

And I used to carry a nature book

around with drawings of different

bats in it.  They ARE cool!

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/3/2005 10:56:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

But the script -- and the actual filmed dialogue -- has Mandemus
being the keeper of Caesar's armory for 27 years.

 

Then if that's the case and Cornelius is 12

then Lisa didn't get pregnant for 15 years.

Maybe with the war and all, but I doubt it.

 

<.html

Thanks!

I'm going to check my collection as soon as I get home from work
tonight. Even if I don't have them, they should be pretty easy to find.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil <nfoster@...>
Date: Wednesday, August 3, 2005 5:33 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Grummet/Superboy

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@n...> wrote:
> > Thanks for posting the page excerpts Neil. This storyline
> actually
> looks very interesting. Can you eleborate as to what are the issue
> numbers and or publishing dates so that those who are interested
> can
> track these issues down?
>
> -- Glad to be of service Dario. The 'Kamandi homage' storyline ran
> from Superboy issue #50 and finished with issue #53 and there was
> an
> epilogue to the story in the first half of issue #54.
>
> The dates are:
> #50 April '98
> #51 May '98
> #52 June '98
> #53 July '98
> And
> #54 August '98
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ --------------------
> ~-->
> <font face=arial size=-
>
1>http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12hjpas7v/M=362335.6886444.7839734.257544
9/D=groups/S=1705021437:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1123112010/A=2894362/R=0/SIG=138
c78jl6/*http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/arts_culture/?
source=YAHOO&cmpgn=GRP&RTP=http://groups.yahoo.com/">What would our
lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in
the arts today at Network for Good.</font>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I don't care how they try to fit in other POTA characters (ie. Zaius)
into the storyline.
I don't care if they try to resolve the timeline between Conquest and
Battle.
I don't care if the use 'human' shoes or not.

I DO care if they try to somehow tie in POTA 2001. That is the one
thing that will turn me completely OFF.

You can tell them that I will NOT buy it if they somehow try to bring
in POTA 2001 into this. I'm not even saying that 2001 is complete
garbage, but the one saving grace is that no one has tried to tie it
to 'classic' POTA yet, and doing so would definitely be another notch
in the hangmans noose for all of 'classic' POTA fandom.

Tom told me it would be 'classic' POTA so I hope that the 'Thade'
reference by Ty was a joke.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil <nfoster@...>
Date: Wednesday, August 3, 2005 6:30 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > I have been asked to gather opinions and copmments related to
> the
> announcement this morning about comics stories.
> What should the writers keep in mind?
> What errors were made in Conquest and Battle (eg Mandeamus' age)?
> All comments will be summarised and passed on.
>
> -- I have been thinking about this new comic a lot in the last
> couple of days.
> I really do hope they can clear up a few of the 'mistakes' and
> explain them when they do this story. Like you mentioned, the
> whole
> age of Mandeamus thing and just how much time has elapsed between
> Conquest and Battle? I did watch Battle a couple of weeks ago and
> one of the mutants mentioned breaking the peace after ? years
> (sorry
> can't remember the figure)
> Of course I would also like them to explain how, in Conquest, they
> got their ape feet in those human shoes. ;-)
>
> One thing I do hope they keep in mind is having any stories stay
> true to the Classic POTA we all love, I really don't want even the
> slightest attempt to tie any of it to the 2001 movie.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ --------------------
> ~-->
> <font face=arial size=-
>
1>http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12h7frpgb/M=362335.6886444.7839734.257544
9/D=groups/S=1705021437:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1123115439/A=2894362/R=0/SIG=138
c78jl6/*http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/arts_culture/?
source=YAHOO&cmpgn=GRP&RTP=http://groups.yahoo.com/">What would our
lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in
the arts today at Network for Good.</font>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 8/4/2005 7:14:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time, darios@... writes:

You can tell them that I will NOT buy it if they somehow try to bring
in POTA 2001 into this

 

There is an argument for that.

It was on another planet.  So

if Earth IS the Planet of the Apes,

Then technically That was NOT

on the Planet of the Apes.

 

 

<.html

Yeah but the absolutely silly, childish, lamebrain ending to 2001 had
Thade back on Earth (which is the Planet of the Apes) to impact Earth
history. So potentially another braindead plot could try to unite the
two.

As for 2001 itself, while not a 'strong' movie by any means, it really
was the silly attempt to create a memorable ending that made me groan.
The other aspect that really irked me was the manner in which the
almost invincible Thade becomes a moaning frightened child only
because he is trapped. That was so out of character it just ruined it.
It's like the writer got to that scene and realized that the end of
the movie was near so he just terminated the character with a line or
two. I actually thought that Thade was an interesting (vile,
despicable, evil, yes... but interesting) character until that point.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: LordTZer0@...
Date: Thursday, August 4, 2005 9:08 am
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics

>
> In a message dated 8/4/2005 7:14:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> darios@... writes:
>
> You can tell them that I will NOT buy it if they somehow try to
> bring
> in POTA 2001 into this
>
>
>
> There is an argument for that.
> It was on another planet. So
> if Earth IS the Planet of the Apes,
> Then technically That was NOT
> on the Planet of the Apes.
>
>
>

I am very much looking forward to the new POTA comic but I think we
have been rather spoiled by Neil and Michael's excellent comic
series on the POTADG. I consider them to be the standard by which to
judge this new series.

I don't really have any suggestions for the new team - just try to
stay respectful to the source material like Neil and Michael have
done.

Don't try tying into the Adventure comic series. As much fun and
flippancy as it was, I don't think we need a revisit of Breck's
ghost or Alien Nation cross-overs!

I would like to see some unexplored aspects of the POTA world,
totally removed from the movies. Some of Doug Moench's original
Marvel tales such as "Future Chronicles" springs to mind as a good
example.

Rob

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...>
wrote:
> > I have been asked to gather opinions and copmments related to
the
> announcement this morning about comics stories.
> What should the writers keep in mind?
> What errors were made in Conquest and Battle (eg Mandeamus' age)?
> All comments will be summarised and passed on.
>
> -- I have been thinking about this new comic a lot in the last
> couple of days.
> I really do hope they can clear up a few of the 'mistakes' and
> explain them when they do this story. Like you mentioned, the
whole
> age of Mandeamus thing and just how much time has elapsed between
> Conquest and Battle? I did watch Battle a couple of weeks ago and
> one of the mutants mentioned breaking the peace after ? years
(sorry
> can't remember the figure)
> Of course I would also like them to explain how, in Conquest, they
> got their ape feet in those human shoes. ;-)
>
> One thing I do hope they keep in mind is having any stories stay
> true to the Classic POTA we all love, I really don't want even the
> slightest attempt to tie any of it to the 2001 movie.
>
> Neil

.html

In a message dated 8/4/2005 8:39:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time, darios@... writes:

As for 2001 itself, while not a 'strong' movie by any means, it really
was the silly attempt to create a memorable ending that made me groan.

 

Yeah, that's why Burton kept his "surprise" ending a secret.

Because it was not surprise to anyone who'd read the book.

That was the final slap in the face.  I felt cheated, and that

after two hours of being assailed with ever POTA reference

and bad one line they could come up with.  What a rip off.

 

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

>If he had had access to actual firearms from a legit armory (via

Mandemus), he wouldn't have had to resort to the chicanery we see on-
screen

-- Depends if he did infact have access to such an armory, I doubt it
would have been that easy for apes (other than ones working there) to
get near it. Even if Caesar did find some official documentation to
forge I think the authorities would have had very stringent checks on
and kept a close watch on any apes working there.

> Works for me, anyway.

-- Does for me too mostly.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> Yeah, I wanted a bat as a kid.

And I used to carry a nature book around with drawings of different
bats in it. They ARE cool!

-- Yeah right they're cool until they bite you and you find out they
have that Australian Bat lyssa virus that killed 2 women here in
Queensland in 1996! Not a very nice way to die apparently.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...>
wrote:


-- Hey I didn't get to see this whatever it was. Any chance that
someone who did could upload it to the files section please?

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> Then if that's the case and Cornelius is 12 then Lisa didn't get

pregnant for 15 years. Maybe with the war and all, but I doubt it.

-- Or maybe she did, maybe more than once and those children died or
something, we really don't know. Leaves it open for some interesting
stories anyway.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> No, he WAS serious..his PREFERENCE is to do a comic with POTA 2001

characters.

-- Bloody hell!

> But he can't - they WON'T give him the license.

-- Phew!!!!!!! And let's just hope they don't give it to anyone
else! ;-)

Neil

.html
-- <.html

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Mandemus.jpg
Uploaded by : abmac40 <abmac@...>
Description : Mandemus Mystery Solved!

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Mandemus.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

abmac40 <abmac@...>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Why - do YOU want it NEIL?!?!?!?!?

-- Well thinking about it I'm sure we could come up with something
interesting with the POTA2001 characters. We couldn't do worse than
that movie! ;-)

Neil

Done. Enjoy.

On Aug 4, 2005, at 4:21 p.m., Neil wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...>
> wrote:
>
>
> -- Hey I didn't get to see this whatever it was. Any chance that
> someone who did could upload it to the files section please?
>
> Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , PotaDG@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
> group.
>
> File : /Mandemus.jpg
> Uploaded by : abmac40 <abmac@i...>
> Description : Mandemus Mystery Solved!
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Mandemus.jpg
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> abmac40 <abmac@i...>

-- Thanks! I've never seen this before, what is it all about?

Neil

.html

In a message dated 8/4/2005 4:28:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Or maybe she did, maybe more than once and those children died or
something, we really don't know. Leaves it open for some interesting
stories anyway.

 

That's a possibility.

He is an only child.

Maybe she has a

problem in that area.

 

<.html

On Aug 4, 2005, at 5:25 p.m., Neil wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> This email message is a notification to let you know that
>> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
>> group.
>>
>> File : /Mandemus.jpg
>> Uploaded by : abmac40 <abmac@i...>
>> Description : Mandemus Mystery Solved!
>>
>> You can access this file at the URL:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Mandemus.jpg
>>
>> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
>> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> abmac40 <abmac@i...>
>>
>
>
> -- Thanks! I've never seen this before, what is it all about?
>
> Neil

I was just playing around with the idea that Mandemus might have been
brought to the city armoury in 1976.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...>
wrote:

> I was just playing around with the idea that Mandemus might have

been brought to the city armoury in 1976.

-- Cool.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> That's a possibility. He is an only child. Maybe she has a problem

in that area.

-- Well she does seem to say NO! a lot! ;-)

Neil

.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 8/4/2005 4:28:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Or maybe she did, maybe more than once and those children died or
something, we really don't know. Leaves it open for some interesting
stories anyway.

 

That's a possibility.

He is an only child.

Maybe she has a

problem in that area.

 

   Is it possible that Cornelius was adopted or do we know for sure he is the biological child of Lisa and Caesar. Elaine

 

---

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

•  Visit your group "PotaDG " on the web.
   
•  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
    mailto:PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
   
•  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

---

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/4/2005 5:54:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Well she does seem to say NO! a lot! ;-)

 

Well, maybe.  But if the theory that the chimpette

Natalie played in the Breeding Annex WAS Lisa,

there was at least one other time that she didn't.

 

 

<.html

If Fox won't give anyone a POTA2001 license then maybe they're smarter
than we give them credit for ;)

Nah, there's probably some other rea$on.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil <nfoster@...>
Date: Thursday, August 4, 2005 5:32 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > No, he WAS serious..his PREFERENCE is to do a comic with POTA 2001
> characters.
>
> -- Bloody hell!
>
> > But he can't - they WON'T give him the license.
>
> -- Phew!!!!!!! And let's just hope they don't give it to anyone
> else! ;-)
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ --------------------
> ~-->
> <font face=arial size=-
>
1>http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12h6b6eti/M=362335.6886444.7839734.257544
9/D=groups/S=1705021437:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1123198330/A=2894362/R=0/SIG=138
c78jl6/*http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/arts_culture/?
source=YAHOO&cmpgn=GRP&RTP=http://groups.yahoo.com/">What would our
lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in
the arts today at Network for Good.</font>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 8/3/2005 10:56:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> But the script -- and the actual filmed dialogue -- has Mandemus
> being the keeper of Caesar's armory for 27 years.
>
>
>
>
> Then if that's the case and Cornelius is 12
> then Lisa didn't get pregnant for 15 years.
> Maybe with the war and all, but I doubt it.

*** Actually, Cornelius would be about 11, assuming that Caesar
impregnated Lisa soon after the Bomb went off. It would take 9 months
or so for him to gestate, so that it's about a year after the Bomb
destroyed the City when he's born, and another 11 years go by
until "BATTLE" takes place.

This doesn't preclude the notion that Lisa may have borne children to
Caesar prior to the birth of Cornelius -- but that child (or those
children) would have to have died before the events of "BATTLE" since
Cornelius is specifically referred to as "Caesar's son and heir" --
whom, Caesar himself says, "shall be as tall as a King!" (or, in
other words, he'll BE a king himself, when he inherits his father's
kingdom, presumably when he's grown tall enough, become an adult with
the training and wisdom his dad gave him).

Maybe Caesar had a previous child (son or daughter) or children, and
those children -- including his 'Firstborn' heir -- were killed
either in the 15 years prior to the Nuke War (between 1991 and 2006)
or died because of the Nuke War, in 2006. Perhaps he had only one
child (for argument's sake, let's suppose it was a son, though it
could've been a daughter), and that child was a hot-headed youth
approaching maturity, around 14 years old right before the Nuke War.
Perhaps he had been out riding a horse on a reconnaisance mission and
was killed by the tail-end of the blastwave of the overblast that
destroyed Breck's city. Or, he got dosed with so much radiation that
he died of radiation poisoning. Or, a human soldier on the periphery
of the forested area where Caesar's 'guerrilla' band holds mastery
(like Robin Hood & his 'merry men' in Sherwood Forest) sees a clothed
chimp riding a horse off in the distance and his sniper-fire hits the
mark, killing him.

This MIGHT be one way to explain why it is that Caesar seems to wish
his 'replacement' heir (Cornelius) to become a better WRITER, rather
than a better RIDER, as the boy seems to want to do. You'd think that
Caesar ordinarily would WANT to train his own son to be an expert
horseman (or, horsechimp!), since he himself had been trained to be a
bareback rider in Armando's 'Old-Time' Circus... yet the only Apes
that seem to ride horses in "BATTLE" are the Gorilla cavalry.

Caesar, Virgil and MacDonald didn't take horses on their trip to the
Forbidden City -- which might easily have cut their travel time in
half, or by a factor of 3. Instead of it being a "three-day journey"
there-and-back, it might only have taken a single day: they could've
left Ape City, galloping or cantering 3 times faster than their
walking pace, and gotten to their destination, tying the horses to
something at a place where they can rest before going into the City's
ruins on foot, etc etc.

It COULD have taken them only a day, day and a half, tops, to
complete their fact-finding mission into the dead City... but they
CHOOSE (or, Caesar chooses) to travel on foot.

Maybe horses are kept in the Corral, where (perhaps) a gorilla
overseer keeps tabs on which horse is being used for whichever task
by whomever, so that if (for example) Aldo needs a horse to go riding
along the periphery of the Apes' domain and check on his Sentry
posts, he goes to the Corral, tells the gorilla managing it that he
needs a horse, and the gorilla gets him a horse and makes a notation
that "General Aldo has requisitioned SHADOWFAX for a border patrol
survey on Tuesday, September ##, 2018", for instance. [Note: I stole
the name from "Lord of the Rings" -- Shadowfax was Gandalf's horse].
And, when the horse is returned, the Corral overseer notes it in his
log. Horses would be a precious resource, I should think, and they
wouldn't want any humans to just waltz on into the Corral and take
them at leisure, so that they can use them to gallop off to some
other locale where bigoted gorillas won't be able to harass them.

Caesar didn't seem to want any of the gorillas to know that he was
going on his trip (taking Virgil and a HUMAN, MacDonald, with him,
rather than a gorilla), even though it COULD have been a 4-person
party, including a gorilla. Caesar EXCLUDED the gorillas from his
journey. Perhaps Caesar -- who had almost been run over by Aldo and
his 'friends' after the "No, Aldo, No!" incident -- didn't trust Aldo
or any other gorilla enough to inform them that he was going away for
a 3-day period: it might give Aldo the opportunity to plan and carry
out a coup d'etat. The trio might return, then, to find that Aldo had
already seized power during his KNOWN absence. Aldo could have killed
all three of them, then, and claimed he thought they were strangers
coming to invade Ape City from the Forbidden City, and then realized
only afterwards that they were Caesar, Virgil, and MacDonald instead.

There's a lot of "we don't knows" left over to explore, against the
backdrop of the "CONQUEST"-to-"BATTLE" scenario/setting. It should be
interesting to see what this new comic might try to add to the mix.
Let's hope it doesn't have Thade in it, though!

Patrick

.html.html In a message dated 8/6/2005 11:26:03 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

This MIGHT be one way to explain why it is that Caesar seems to wish
his 'replacement' heir (Cornelius) to become a better WRITER, rather
than a better RIDER, as the boy seems to want to do.

He wants Cornelius to be a better writer than a better rider because he wants his son to be an EDUCATED ruler, not a "military dictator". He never implies he wants to be a superior rider anyway, he said the line "If my father were a gorilla, we'd all be learning riding instead of writing" in jest...

<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 8/6/2005 11:26:03 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Caesar EXCLUDED the gorillas from his journey. Perhaps Caesar -- who had almost been run over by Aldo and his 'friends' after the "No, Aldo, No!" incident -- didn't trust Aldo or any other gorilla enough to inform them that he was going away for a 3-day period.

He didn't take a soldier with because he says something like "We went in peace..." and that the reason they took MacDonald rather than a soldier was so if there "were" human survivors, he (MacDonald) could parlay with them and secure permission for their search... It had nothing to do with his deliberately excluding the gorillas. Caesar took who he thought would be most helpful. He took MacDonald because he knew of the tapes, and he could maybe deal with surviving humans, and Virgil was taken along because he knew of radioactivity.

<.html <.html

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , taebokitti@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/4/2005 3:26:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> LordTZer0@A... writes:
> In a message dated 8/4/2005 4:28:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> nfoster@h... writes:
> -- Or maybe she did, maybe more than once and those children died

or something, we really don't know. Leaves it open for some
interesting stories anyway.

>
> That's a possibility.
> He is an only child.
> Maybe she has a
> problem in that area.
>
> Is it possible that Cornelius was adopted or do we know for sure

he is the biological child of Lisa and Caesar. Elaine

*** Teacher/Abe tells Cornelius, "You are Caesar's son and heir."
Aldo, during his campfire harangue, notices they're being watched and
overheard by "Caesar's son!" After the 'battle' with Kolp's invading
forces, Caesar accusingly says to Aldo, "You murdered my son!" over
and over again. Cornelius referred to Caesar and Lisa as "Father"
and "Mother".

Now, none of this is iron-clad proof that he is their natural son. He
MIGHT still be adopted... but the sense I get is that he is their
flesh-and-blood offspring. Also, from a political standpoint, it
makes sense that Cornelius is Caesar's biological son, since he's
also his HEIR, the heir to his Crown and Throne, the kingship over
the Apes and Humans living in this Ape City-and-environs kingdom.

If Cornelius were merely an adopted child, then after his death,
Caesar could easily adopt yet ANOTHER child and make HIM his new
heir, to replace Cornelius.

But monarchies don't tend to follow such a paradigm. The rule over a
kingdom is never decided meritocratically (the best man, or ape, for
the job): it is the "birthright" of the Firstborn male child, usually.

Part of the devastating effect Cornelius' death has on Caesar's plans
for the Future revolves around the notion that his kingdom has lost
the Heir to the throne. You can't have a monarchy if the Royal Family
has no living heir. And all the laws that Caesar himself established
would be up-in-the-air once he died -- if he were to die childless.
The turmoil regarding the Succession to the throne would pit person-
against-person, with some advocating an abandonment of One-Ape-Rule
altogether in favor of some form of democratic Republic (like America
is supposed to have). Somebody might advocate a Communist/Socialist
type of government. Someone (probably a gorilla) would advocate a
Military Dictatorship, after the period of Martial Law that 'had' to
be set in place to keep things 'stable' in the power vacuum following
Caesar's death.

With Cornelius' death, the Future which Caesar hopes to build -- one
which he hopes will deflect Earth away from the "Doomsday" scenario
his parents witnessed -- is put into grave jeopardy. Since, some 600
to 700 years later (in 2670), there is a relatively peaceful group of
Apes and Humans (with, I might add, NO gorillas to be seen) living
under the teaching of the 'nice' Lawgiver, this does suggest that all
Apes and Humans were established into a society of Equality -- during
the latter end of Caesar's lifetime. Waiting "with hope" for the
Future.

But the gorillas don't seem to have any share in that society,
perhaps (and probably) by their own choice. They weren't willing to
sit in Council with humans... it's doubtful that they could stomach
living in equality with them in Caesar's once-kingdom.

Maybe they rode off with the horses, to found their own "Gorilla
City" somewhere else... where the stigma of being the same 'race' as
Aldo (the Child-Killer) they won't constantly be reminded of.

But that's another thread...

Patrick

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 6:24 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Boulle audio book

In a message dated 8/1/05 6:26:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

Speaking of Boulle and Monkey Planet, I would like (because I'm lazy!) to have an audio book version of it. At least one of his books has been made into one:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6971015982&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:AU:1

Why not POTA?

Neil

Who would you get to read it?  McDowall's dead.  Heston's not feelin' too good.

Oh, I know.  French novel = Gerard Depardieu!  Yeah, that's the ticket.

-- Rory

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:41 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Speaking of books

In a message dated 8/1/05 10:37:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

How about POTA - the MOVIE ADAPTATION.   ?????

Fox would have to still pay rights to the publishing house that currently owns Boulle's novel!

Do you seriously see Fox doing that?

GET REAL!!!!

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/6/2005 11:26:03 AM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> > This MIGHT be one way to explain why it is that Caesar seems to

wish his 'replacement' heir (Cornelius) to become a better WRITER,
rather than a better RIDER, as the boy seems to want to do.

>
> He wants Cornelius to be a better writer than a better rider

because he wants his son to be an EDUCATED ruler, not a "military
dictator". He never implies he wants to be a superior rider anyway,
he said the line "If my father were a gorilla, we'd all be learning
riding instead of writing" in jest...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

*** I'd have to respectfully disagree here. Cornelius is caught
playing 'War' with a human -- it's Fun to play it, and he has to be
taught by his mother that it is unacceptable (for her and for her
husband). Here's how the script has it:
____________________ scene 10

Kolp says that MacDonald's brother supervised the archives section.
Assuming he got the job right out of high school and worked there a
couple of years before advancing to the supervisory position, that
would make him at least twenty years old. There's no way he's 47 at
the time of Battle. If they'd wanted him to be 47, they wouldn't have
hired a 25-year-old actor to play him. Also, look at Doctor and tell
me she appears to be in her mid-fifties.

Horses aren't machines. You can't take them galloping or cantering
across the desert for a full day without supplying them with food and
water. A rest isn't going to suffice. Plus, you can't assume that
MacDonald and Virgil knew how to ride horses. MacDonald was a city
boy and, as you said, the gorillas would never let him near a horse.

Inventing deceased children is ludicrous. Only the most shallow of
parents would wait to have a second child until after the first one
had died, and then they'd surely make that second child know that he
was a "replacement" for the first. When Cornelius dies, Caesar
doesn't say, "No, not again," nor does he ever mention any other
children. If they weren't mentioned, they didn't exist.

On Aug 6, 2005, at 11:23 a.m., patrickmichaeltilton wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>
>>
>> In a message dated 8/3/2005 10:56:19 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
>> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>>
>> But the script -- and the actual filmed dialogue -- has Mandemus
>> being the keeper of Caesar's armory for 27 years.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Then if that's the case and Cornelius is 12
>> then Lisa didn't get pregnant for 15 years.
>> Maybe with the war and all, but I doubt it.
>>
>
> *** Actually, Cornelius would be about 11, assuming that Caesar
> impregnated Lisa soon after the Bomb went off. It would take 9 months
> or so for him to gestate, so that it's about a year after the Bomb
> destroyed the City when he's born, and another 11 years go by
> until "BATTLE" takes place.
>
> This doesn't preclude the notion that Lisa may have borne children to
> Caesar prior to the birth of Cornelius -- but that child (or those
> children) would have to have died before the events of "BATTLE" since
> Cornelius is specifically referred to as "Caesar's son and heir" --
> whom, Caesar himself says, "shall be as tall as a King!" (or, in
> other words, he'll BE a king himself, when he inherits his father's
> kingdom, presumably when he's grown tall enough, become an adult with
> the training and wisdom his dad gave him).
>
> Maybe Caesar had a previous child (son or daughter) or children, and
> those children -- including his 'Firstborn' heir -- were killed
> either in the 15 years prior to the Nuke War (between 1991 and 2006)
> or died because of the Nuke War, in 2006. Perhaps he had only one
> child (for argument's sake, let's suppose it was a son, though it
> could've been a daughter), and that child was a hot-headed youth
> approaching maturity, around 14 years old right before the Nuke War.
> Perhaps he had been out riding a horse on a reconnaisance mission and
> was killed by the tail-end of the blastwave of the overblast that
> destroyed Breck's city. Or, he got dosed with so much radiation that
> he died of radiation poisoning. Or, a human soldier on the periphery
> of the forested area where Caesar's 'guerrilla' band holds mastery
> (like Robin Hood & his 'merry men' in Sherwood Forest) sees a clothed
> chimp riding a horse off in the distance and his sniper-fire hits the
> mark, killing him.
>
> This MIGHT be one way to explain why it is that Caesar seems to wish
> his 'replacement' heir (Cornelius) to become a better WRITER, rather
> than a better RIDER, as the boy seems to want to do. You'd think that
> Caesar ordinarily would WANT to train his own son to be an expert
> horseman (or, horsechimp!), since he himself had been trained to be a
> bareback rider in Armando's 'Old-Time' Circus... yet the only Apes
> that seem to ride horses in "BATTLE" are the Gorilla cavalry.
>
> Caesar, Virgil and MacDonald didn't take horses on their trip to the
> Forbidden City -- which might easily have cut their travel time in
> half, or by a factor of 3. Instead of it being a "three-day journey"
> there-and-back, it might only have taken a single day: they could've
> left Ape City, galloping or cantering 3 times faster than their
> walking pace, and gotten to their destination, tying the horses to
> something at a place where they can rest before going into the City's
> ruins on foot, etc etc.
>
> It COULD have taken them only a day, day and a half, tops, to
> complete their fact-finding mission into the dead City... but they
> CHOOSE (or, Caesar chooses) to travel on foot.
>
> Maybe horses are kept in the Corral, where (perhaps) a gorilla
> overseer keeps tabs on which horse is being used for whichever task
> by whomever, so that if (for example) Aldo needs a horse to go riding
> along the periphery of the Apes' domain and check on his Sentry
> posts, he goes to the Corral, tells the gorilla managing it that he
> needs a horse, and the gorilla gets him a horse and makes a notation
> that "General Aldo has requisitioned SHADOWFAX for a border patrol
> survey on Tuesday, September ##, 2018", for instance. [Note: I stole
> the name from "Lord of the Rings" -- Shadowfax was Gandalf's horse].
> And, when the horse is returned, the Corral overseer notes it in his
> log. Horses would be a precious resource, I should think, and they
> wouldn't want any humans to just waltz on into the Corral and take
> them at leisure, so that they can use them to gallop off to some
> other locale where bigoted gorillas won't be able to harass them.
>
> Caesar didn't seem to want any of the gorillas to know that he was
> going on his trip (taking Virgil and a HUMAN, MacDonald, with him,
> rather than a gorilla), even though it COULD have been a 4-person
> party, including a gorilla. Caesar EXCLUDED the gorillas from his
> journey. Perhaps Caesar -- who had almost been run over by Aldo and
> his 'friends' after the "No, Aldo, No!" incident -- didn't trust Aldo
> or any other gorilla enough to inform them that he was going away for
> a 3-day period: it might give Aldo the opportunity to plan and carry
> out a coup d'etat. The trio might return, then, to find that Aldo had
> already seized power during his KNOWN absence. Aldo could have killed
> all three of them, then, and claimed he thought they were strangers
> coming to invade Ape City from the Forbidden City, and then realized
> only afterwards that they were Caesar, Virgil, and MacDonald instead.
>
> There's a lot of "we don't knows" left over to explore, against the
> backdrop of the "CONQUEST"-to-"BATTLE" scenario/setting. It should be
> interesting to see what this new comic might try to add to the mix.
> Let's hope it doesn't have Thade in it, though!
>
> Patrick
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ --------------------
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

.html <.html

.html

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/6/2005 11:26:03 AM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> > Caesar EXCLUDED the gorillas from his journey. Perhaps Caesar --

who had almost been run over by Aldo and his 'friends' after the "No,
Aldo, No!" incident -- didn't trust Aldo or any other gorilla enough
to inform them that he was going away for a 3-day period.

>
> He didn't take a soldier with because he says something like "We

went in peace..." and that the reason they took MacDonald rather than
a soldier was so if there "were" human survivors, he (MacDonald)
could parlay with them and secure permission for their search... It
had nothing to do with his deliberately excluding the gorillas.
Caesar took who he thought would be most helpful. He took MacDonald
because he knew of the tapes, and he could maybe deal with surviving
humans, and Virgil was taken along because he knew of radioactivity.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

*** That's what Caesar told his community's COUNCIL, but he didn't
tell them the WHOLE truth, did he?

He didn't tell them about the Tapes that MacDonald had told him
about -- that THOSE TAPES were what he was searching for in the
Forbidden City, and FOUND. When DOES the population of Ape City learn
about how Caesar's parents witnessed the destruction of the entire
Earth after "the gorillas' war" mentioned by Zira? Caesar doesn't
tell them about THAT during this scene -- he only mentions that he
went on a "reconnaisance mission" that involved a "search" for
something that MacDonald may have been helpful, in regards to
negotiating for "permission to search" for WHATEVER.

And they went in with THREE MACHINE GUNS... "for the removal of
obstacles". And a pistol, "to remove smaller obstacles?"...

At the first sign of life -- of HUMAN SURVIVORS in the city -- Virgil
uses his machine gun to blast the security camera off the wall. An
act of aggression, if there ever was one.

Rather than be seen in the camera with tokens of PEACE (say, a peace
symbol, the circle with the upside-down "Y" in it... or holding up
their first- and middle-fingers in a "peace" sign), which would
indicate to those watching them on a monitor that they had peaceable
intentions, they FIRST act by using their weapons.

NOT ONCE during the fracas that ensues does Caesar call out to the
humans trying to corner them, "WE COME IN PEACE! PLEASE, LET US TALK
TO YOUR LEADER... WE CAN FIND A WAY TO HELP EACH OTHER... TO MAKE THE
FUTURE FOR BOTH OUR PEOPLES A BETTER ONE... WE COME IN FRIENDSHIP...!"

Nothing like that. He doesn't even TRY this.

Why?

When he gets back -- despite having never SPOKEN to any of those
surviving humans -- he tells Lisa that those humans are DIFFERENT
from the humans in Ape City... that their radiation-poisoning has
made them MUTANTS: "... and they're MAD." I.e. INSANE... CRAZY...
DEMENTED, VIOLENTLY SO.

Lisa tried to talk sense into him, but Caesar inexplicably has
developed a hateful and BIGOTED notion that the humans -- ALL the
humans -- living in the dead city are irredeemably insane.

He never met Mendez, that's for sure. The one so-called 'mutant' who
saw things the SAME WAY he did... who tried to dissuade Kolp from
interfering with the trio during their incursion into the Archives,
wishing for them to be allowed to return to their own home in
peace... Caesar never met him.

They stopped at the Armory for the express purpose of picking up a
Geiger counter (to monitor the radiation level), which Virgil knew
how to read, and ARMS, just in case the place is still inhabited (as
it MIGHT be) with humans. Yeah... the sight of ARMED INVADERS to
their territory is likely to be seen as a PEACEFUL exploratory
mission by the humans there. Sure.

They did NOT go there "in peace" -- no matter WHAT Caesar later tells
his Council. They went there to get what he wanted to get, ARMED in
case they came across any survivors, whom Caesar had already ASSUMED
would be hostile (he knew they'd be 'radiated', hence 'mad'). It's
only AFTER having engaged in an armed skirmish with those surviving
humans that he LATER tries to sell his Ape City audience on the idea
that they went in there "in peace". He tries to make it seem
UNREASONABLE for those survivors to have attacked them... even though
we KNOW that Virgil fired the first shots, destroying their
surveillance equipment. That's something an invading force would do --
NOT a friendly "peace" mission.

Caesar did NOT take MacDonald along to "parley" with the survivors --
he needed him to lead him to the Archives and get those tapes played
for him. He PRETENDS that he took MacDonald along to act as a go-
between, in response to a REASONABLE question from Aldo.

And what was Caesar supposed to do? Tell Aldo the truth?

"Aldo, I took MacDonald along, because YOU TRIED TO RUN ME OVER WITH
YOUR HORSE after I took Teacher's side against you, after he broke
the First Law... after your provocation, ripping up my own son's
writing exercise. You AND YOUR GORILLA FRIENDS tried to run me down!
I said to MacDonald then that you may be 'riding for a fall', and I
wasn't about to trust either YOU or one of your gorilla friends to
accompany us on our ARMED EXPEDITION into the Forbidden City."

Caesar wasn't ABOUT to say THAT to him! He doesn't trust the
gorillas -- especially Aldo -- with the guns. That's why he has them
locked up in his Armory, with Mandemus to guard them. And Mandemus
shares his opinion of Aldo, as evidenced by his snide, insulting
reply to Aldo when he went there to procure weapons to use to REPEL
AN INVADING ARMED FORCE FROM THE FORBIDDEN CITY.

Caesar's pining over his dying child. Humans are invading their
territory, having already killed an ape -- a GORILLA. And this mouthy
old orangutan has the audacity to insult Aldo -- the ONLY ape who
seems to be willing to ACT against this threat?

It's no wonder Aldo gets so pissed off, and acts the way he does.
Caesar had stacked the deck against him -- to the detriment of ALL
the Apes in Ape City (from Aldo's point-of-view). The only moment
in "BATTLE" when Caesar is seen to SEEM to be treating Aldo with
respect is during the PUBLIC meeting of the Council, when Aldo asks
him why he didn't take a SOLDIER along on his reconnaisance mission.

A reasonable question -- why go ARMED to a place if you aren't going
with a SOLDIER, who should be trained in armed combat? The citizens
there at the meeting would all see that Aldo's question is a
reasonable one, and this forces Caesar to LIE to them all that he
brought MacDonald along to secure permission to search (he never
sought such permission, but THEY don't know that). And it doesn't
MATTER why he brought MacDonald along! They could ALSO have brought
along a gorilla -- made it a 4-PERSON party, where each person
represents the 4 populations living in "Ape City": a CHIMPANZEE
(Caesar), an ORANGUTAN (Virgil), a HUMAN (MacDonald)... AND a
GORILLA. But, by NOT including a gorilla, he was denying them any
representation in the matter. [The inclusion of a BLACK MAN and a
WOMAN in the interstellar mission in "PLANET" speaks volumes about
the POLITICAL SUBTEXT of that story, don't you think? A country ruled
by WHITE MEN includes a "minority" in its crew, AND a woman -- though
they need her to be "the new Eve..." of course. It's all about
REPRESENTATION -- and THAT is what Aldo rightfully knows Caesar's
attempting to short-change the Gorillas in this circumstance.]

How the hell else is Aldo supposed to take that? "Oh, it's a GOOD
thing, then, that you didn't take along a gorilla on your trip. He
only would've gotten in the way. He wouldn't have been any help to
you whatsoever. You did the right thing by not taking a gorilla
along."

When the trio got back to their own territory, Aldo and his troops
jump on them -- probably assuming they're invaders from the City --
and after Caesar tells them that they went to the City and are now
coming back, Aldo asks him Why.

"I went looking for my Past... but I found our Future."

"Explain!"

And Caesar tsk-tsks him, condescendingly: "You wouldn't understand."

Well, he certainly won't if NO ATTEMPT IS MADE to explain it to him!
Caesar has as bigoted a view of Aldo (and all gorillas) as he has of
the so-called "mad" 'mutant' human survivors of the City.

I think you gotta read between-and-behind the lines, and not look at
Caesar (the Protagonist) as if he's an ideal 'hero' of the story.
There are definitely 'shades of grey' to his personality and
his 'character'. Even his own WIFE can see that, when she argues with
him later that night. Being "malformed" makes you
mentally "mad". "Like the freaks in your foster-father's circus? Were
THEY mad?"

Not even SHE can talk sense into him -- to puncture his bigoted
stereotypes. No more than Mendez could talk sense to Kolp. Both of
these leaders have "No"-men (i.e. the opposite of "Yes"-men), willing
to argue against their decisions and inclinations... and their
advice, in BOTH cases, is REJECTED. Kolp rejects Mendez's warnings
about the cycles of violence ["A destroys B..." etc]. Caesar rejects
Lisa's arguments ["They're MUTANT... and they're MAD!"].

And yet some people insist that the film ends on a note of Optimism!
In a world where the only leaders left ignore and/or reject the
REASONABLE arguments against a course of action, culminating in armed
conflict... STILL some people cling to the idea that Caesar somehow
managed to change HUMAN nature, APE nature (remember, they "joined
the human race"...), and 'MUTANT' nature, and prevent the Future
clash of opposing civilizations 2,000 years later.

Patrick

.html.html In a message dated 8/6/05 12:42:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

Still no word on a new POTA movie, so we'll have to take our classic apes where we can find them. Warner Home Video has announced the details on their DVD release of Arthur Jacobs' favorite movie, "King Kong". It's being released on November 22nd.

Great News!  Thanks Jeffery!

-- Rory Joe Young Jr.<.html <.html

Those bats were probably rabid.....Most bats are not
going to harm humans.......they have many positive
qualities....formost being....they consume millions of
mosquitoes nightly!
Tim

--- Neil <nfoster@...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > Yeah, I wanted a bat as a kid.
> And I used to carry a nature book around with
> drawings of different
> bats in it. They ARE cool!
>
> -- Yeah right they're cool until they bite you and
> you find out they
> have that Australian Bat lyssa virus that killed 2
> women here in
> Queensland in 1996! Not a very nice way to die
> apparently.
>
> Neil
>
>
>

Bullies are usually cowards. Why should Thade be any different? - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dario Sciola" <darios@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 6:37 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics


> Yeah but the absolutely silly, childish, lamebrain ending to 2001 had
> Thade back on Earth (which is the Planet of the Apes) to impact Earth
> history. So potentially another braindead plot could try to unite the
> two.
>
> As for 2001 itself, while not a 'strong' movie by any means, it really
> was the silly attempt to create a memorable ending that made me groan.
> The other aspect that really irked me was the manner in which the
> almost invincible Thade becomes a moaning frightened child only
> because he is trapped. That was so out of character it just ruined it.
> It's like the writer got to that scene and realized that the end of
> the movie was near so he just terminated the character with a line or
> two. I actually thought that Thade was an interesting (vile,
> despicable, evil, yes... but interesting) character until that point.
>
> Dario
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: LordTZer0@...
> Date: Thursday, August 4, 2005 9:08 am
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics
>
> >
> > In a message dated 8/4/2005 7:14:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > darios@... writes:
> >
> > You can tell them that I will NOT buy it if they somehow try to
> > bring
> > in POTA 2001 into this
> >
> >
> >
> > There is an argument for that.
> > It was on another planet. So
> > if Earth IS the Planet of the Apes,
> > Then technically That was NOT
> > on the Planet of the Apes.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

" They're all cool until they take a chunk out of you." - - - Julius

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil" <nfoster@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 2:18 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG


> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > Yeah, I wanted a bat as a kid.
> And I used to carry a nature book around with drawings of different
> bats in it. They ARE cool!
>
> -- Yeah right they're cool until they bite you and you find out they
> have that Australian Bat lyssa virus that killed 2 women here in
> Queensland in 1996! Not a very nice way to die apparently.
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>