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----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 3:25 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics

In a message dated 8/4/2005 4:28:16 P.M. Central Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Or maybe she did, maybe more than once and those children died or
something, we really don't know. Leaves it open for some interesting
stories anyway.

 

That's a possibility.

He is an only child.

Maybe she has a

problem in that area.

 

<.html

Good one, Neil! - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil" <nfoster@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 3:53 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics


> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > That's a possibility. He is an only child. Maybe she has a problem
> in that area.
>
> -- Well she does seem to say NO! a lot! ;-)
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

 .html

----- Original Message -----

From: taebokitti@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 9:16 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics

In a message dated 8/4/2005 3:10:15 PM Pacific Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Why – do YOU want it NEIL?!?!?!?!?

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Friday, 5 August 2005 7:32 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics

 

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> No, he WAS serious..his PREFERENCE is to do a comic with POTA 2001
characters.

-- Bloody hell!

> But he can't - they WON'T give him the license.

-- Phew!!!!!!! And let's just hope they don't give it to anyone
else! ;-)

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----- Original Message -----

From: LordTZer0@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 11:49 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics

In a message dated 8/4/2005 5:54:33 P.M. Central Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Well she does seem to say NO! a lot! ;-)

 

Well, maybe.  But if the theory that the chimpette

Natalie played in the Breeding Annex WAS Lisa,

there was at least one other time that she didn't.

 

 

<.html

Probably the rights to POTA2001 are still sewn up by Dark Horse. They
probably bought a mult-year license. Fox probably wouldn't buy it
back. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dario Sciola" <darios@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, August 05, 2005 5:27 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics


> If Fox won't give anyone a POTA2001 license then maybe they're smarter
> than we give them credit for ;)
>
> Nah, there's probably some other rea$on.
>
> Dario
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Neil <nfoster@...>
> Date: Thursday, August 4, 2005 5:32 pm
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics
>
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> > > No, he WAS serious..his PREFERENCE is to do a comic with POTA 2001
> > characters.
> >
> > -- Bloody hell!
> >
> > > But he can't - they WON'T give him the license.
> >
> > -- Phew!!!!!!! And let's just hope they don't give it to anyone
> > else! ;-)
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ --------------------
> > ~-->
> > <font face=arial size=-
> >
> 1>http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12h6b6eti/M=362335.6886444.7839734.257544
> 9/D=groups/S=1705021437:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1123198330/A=2894362/R=0/SIG=138
> c78jl6/*http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/arts_culture/?
> source=YAHOO&cmpgn=GRP&RTP=http://groups.yahoo.com/">What would our
> lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in
> the arts today at Network for Good.</font>
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------
> > -~->
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
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>
>
>

.html.html In a message dated 8/6/2005 1:28:54 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

They did NOT go there "in peace" -- no matter WHAT Caesar later tells
his Council. They went there to get what he wanted to get, ARMED in
case they came across any survivors, whom Caesar had already ASSUMED
would be hostile (he knew they'd be 'radiated', hence 'mad'). It's
only AFTER having engaged in an armed skirmish with those surviving
humans that he LATER tries to sell his Ape City audience on the idea
that they went in there "in peace". He tries to make it seem
UNREASONABLE for those survivors to have attacked them... even though
we KNOW that Virgil fired the first shots, destroying their
surveillance equipment. That's something an invading force would do --
NOT a friendly "peace" mission.

The whole thing about him shooting the camera can't really be used in your theory, because it only exists in the extended version of the film... To those who have never seen the long version, they'd be reading your theory and thinking "What is he talking about, no such scene exists..." Besides, you're acting like Kolp anyway by saying the shooting of a camera is an act of war... He was more or less shooting the camera to prevent their being seen trespassing in the Archives Section. Plus, don't forget, Mendez himself says that they appeared to have come to the city in peace, and that they fired only after being fired upon, so the should be left to leave in peace as well...

And, they went in "peace" to the Dead City because they weren't expecting anyone/thing to be alive there... They were armed though for "Self protection in the pursuit of knowledge", or at least that's what they told Mandemus when they were getting the weapons from him... Being armed on the journey doesn't mean they were expecting trouble in the city... Theoretically, they could have been armed in case they needed to defend themselves while on their trip, not in the city...

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.html.html In a message dated 8/6/2005 1:28:54 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

I think you gotta read between-and-behind the lines, and not look at
Caesar (the Protagonist) as if he's an ideal 'hero' of the story.

In your theories, you not only read between the lines, you make up lines that aren't even there...

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On Aug 6, 2005, at 1:27 p.m., patrickmichaeltilton wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
>
>> In a message dated 8/6/2005 11:26:03 AM Central Standard Time,
>> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>>
>>> Caesar EXCLUDED the gorillas from his journey. Perhaps Caesar --
>>> who had almost been run over by Aldo and his 'friends' after the
>>> "No,
>>> Aldo, No!" incident -- didn't trust Aldo or any other gorilla enough
>>> to inform them that he was going away for a 3-day period.
>>
>> He didn't take a soldier with because he says something like "We
>> went in peace..." and that the reason they took MacDonald rather than
>> a soldier was so if there "were" human survivors, he (MacDonald)
>> could parlay with them and secure permission for their search... It
>> had nothing to do with his deliberately excluding the gorillas.
>> Caesar took who he thought would be most helpful. He took MacDonald
>> because he knew of the tapes, and he could maybe deal with surviving
>> humans, and Virgil was taken along because he knew of radioactivity.
>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
>
> *** That's what Caesar told his community's COUNCIL, but he didn't
> tell them the WHOLE truth, did he?
>
> He didn't tell them about the Tapes that MacDonald had told him
> about -- that THOSE TAPES were what he was searching for in the
> Forbidden City, and FOUND. When DOES the population of Ape City learn
> about how Caesar's parents witnessed the destruction of the entire
> Earth after "the gorillas' war" mentioned by Zira? Caesar doesn't
> tell them about THAT during this scene -- he only mentions that he
> went on a "reconnaisance mission" that involved a "search" for
> something that MacDonald may have been helpful, in regards to
> negotiating for "permission to search" for WHATEVER.

Who says the King has to tell the council everything he knows? They
answer to him, not vice versa.

> And they went in with THREE MACHINE GUNS... "for the removal of
> obstacles". And a pistol, "to remove smaller obstacles?"...
>
> At the first sign of life -- of HUMAN SURVIVORS in the city -- Virgil
> uses his machine gun to blast the security camera off the wall. An
> act of aggression, if there ever was one.
>
> Rather than be seen in the camera with tokens of PEACE (say, a peace
> symbol, the circle with the upside-down "Y" in it... or holding up
> their first- and middle-fingers in a "peace" sign), which would
> indicate to those watching them on a monitor that they had peaceable
> intentions, they FIRST act by using their weapons.
>
> NOT ONCE during the fracas that ensues does Caesar call out to the
> humans trying to corner them, "WE COME IN PEACE! PLEASE, LET US TALK
> TO YOUR LEADER... WE CAN FIND A WAY TO HELP EACH OTHER... TO MAKE THE
> FUTURE FOR BOTH OUR PEOPLES A BETTER ONE... WE COME IN FRIENDSHIP...!"
>
> Nothing like that. He doesn't even TRY this.
>
> Why?
>
> When he gets back -- despite having never SPOKEN to any of those
> surviving humans -- he tells Lisa that those humans are DIFFERENT
> from the humans in Ape City... that their radiation-poisoning has
> made them MUTANTS: "... and they're MAD." I.e. INSANE... CRAZY...
> DEMENTED, VIOLENTLY SO.
>
> Lisa tried to talk sense into him, but Caesar inexplicably has
> developed a hateful and BIGOTED notion that the humans -- ALL the
> humans -- living in the dead city are irredeemably insane.
>
> He never met Mendez, that's for sure. The one so-called 'mutant' who
> saw things the SAME WAY he did... who tried to dissuade Kolp from
> interfering with the trio during their incursion into the Archives,
> wishing for them to be allowed to return to their own home in
> peace... Caesar never met him.
>
> They stopped at the Armory for the express purpose of picking up a
> Geiger counter (to monitor the radiation level), which Virgil knew
> how to read, and ARMS, just in case the place is still inhabited (as
> it MIGHT be) with humans. Yeah... the sight of ARMED INVADERS to
> their territory is likely to be seen as a PEACEFUL exploratory
> mission by the humans there. Sure.
>
> They did NOT go there "in peace" -- no matter WHAT Caesar later tells
> his Council. They went there to get what he wanted to get, ARMED in
> case they came across any survivors, whom Caesar had already ASSUMED
> would be hostile (he knew they'd be 'radiated', hence 'mad'). It's
> only AFTER having engaged in an armed skirmish with those surviving
> humans that he LATER tries to sell his Ape City audience on the idea
> that they went in there "in peace". He tries to make it seem
> UNREASONABLE for those survivors to have attacked them... even though
> we KNOW that Virgil fired the first shots, destroying their
> surveillance equipment. That's something an invading force would do --
> NOT a friendly "peace" mission.
>
> Caesar did NOT take MacDonald along to "parley" with the survivors --
> he needed him to lead him to the Archives and get those tapes played
> for him. He PRETENDS that he took MacDonald along to act as a go-
> between, in response to a REASONABLE question from Aldo.

Although there hadn't been fighting between the survivors in the old
city and the inhabitants of Caesar's settlement for twelve years,
that doesn't mean the two groups weren't still hostile toward one
another. When an army fights without any goal beyond the annihilation
of the enemy, negotiation with them is impossible and they don't
deserve mercy. Caesar would've been justified in killing every
survivor he encountered in the city.

> And what was Caesar supposed to do? Tell Aldo the truth?
>
> "Aldo, I took MacDonald along, because YOU TRIED TO RUN ME OVER WITH
> YOUR HORSE after I took Teacher's side against you, after he broke
> the First Law... after your provocation, ripping up my own son's
> writing exercise. You AND YOUR GORILLA FRIENDS tried to run me down!
> I said to MacDonald then that you may be 'riding for a fall', and I
> wasn't about to trust either YOU or one of your gorilla friends to
> accompany us on our ARMED EXPEDITION into the Forbidden City."
>
> Caesar wasn't ABOUT to say THAT to him! He doesn't trust the
> gorillas -- especially Aldo -- with the guns. That's why he has them
> locked up in his Armory, with Mandemus to guard them. And Mandemus
> shares his opinion of Aldo, as evidenced by his snide, insulting
> reply to Aldo when he went there to procure weapons to use to REPEL
> AN INVADING ARMED FORCE FROM THE FORBIDDEN CITY.

From the time Aldo nearly runs Caesar over, he is treated like a
dangerous potential enemy. Caesar can't do anything about it overtly
as long as Aldo has the support of the other gorillas, so he
tolerates Aldo's presence, but tells him no more than is necessary.

> Caesar's pining over his dying child. Humans are invading their
> territory, having already killed an ape -- a GORILLA. And this mouthy
> old orangutan has the audacity to insult Aldo -- the ONLY ape who
> seems to be willing to ACT against this threat?
>
> It's no wonder Aldo gets so pissed off, and acts the way he does.
> Caesar had stacked the deck against him -- to the detriment of ALL
> the Apes in Ape City (from Aldo's point-of-view). The only moment
> in "BATTLE" when Caesar is seen to SEEM to be treating Aldo with
> respect is during the PUBLIC meeting of the Council, when Aldo asks
> him why he didn't take a SOLDIER along on his reconnaisance mission.
>
> A reasonable question -- why go ARMED to a place if you aren't going
> with a SOLDIER, who should be trained in armed combat?

They were hoping to avoid combat, but it would've been stupid to go
without defences. Caesar couldn't be sure that he could control the
gorilla, and he didn't want the gorilla to learn anything from the
expedition that could be used by Aldo later.

> The citizens
> there at the meeting would all see that Aldo's question is a
> reasonable one, and this forces Caesar to LIE to them all that he
> brought MacDonald along to secure permission to search (he never
> sought such permission, but THEY don't know that). And it doesn't
> MATTER why he brought MacDonald along! They could ALSO have brought
> along a gorilla -- made it a 4-PERSON party, where each person
> represents the 4 populations living in "Ape City": a CHIMPANZEE
> (Caesar), an ORANGUTAN (Virgil), a HUMAN (MacDonald)... AND a
> GORILLA. But, by NOT including a gorilla, he was denying them any
> representation in the matter. [The inclusion of a BLACK MAN and a
> WOMAN in the interstellar mission in "PLANET" speaks volumes about
> the POLITICAL SUBTEXT of that story, don't you think? A country ruled
> by WHITE MEN includes a "minority" in its crew, AND a woman -- though
> they need her to be "the new Eve..." of course. It's all about
> REPRESENTATION -- and THAT is what Aldo rightfully knows Caesar's
> attempting to short-change the Gorillas in this circumstance.]

They went looking for a specific film, and they didn't take anyone
who wasn't necessary. It wasn't a freaking parade. They didn't need
an insubordinate "representative" who owed allegiance to a potential
enemy. That PC crap doesn't work in the real world.

> How the hell else is Aldo supposed to take that? "Oh, it's a GOOD
> thing, then, that you didn't take along a gorilla on your trip. He
> only would've gotten in the way. He wouldn't have been any help to
> you whatsoever. You did the right thing by not taking a gorilla
> along."
>
> When the trio got back to their own territory, Aldo and his troops
> jump on them -- probably assuming they're invaders from the City --
> and after Caesar tells them that they went to the City and are now
> coming back, Aldo asks him Why.
>
> "I went looking for my Past... but I found our Future."
>
> "Explain!"
>
> And Caesar tsk-tsks him, condescendingly: "You wouldn't understand."
>
> Well, he certainly won't if NO ATTEMPT IS MADE to explain it to him!
> Caesar has as bigoted a view of Aldo (and all gorillas) as he has of
> the so-called "mad" 'mutant' human survivors of the City.

Caesar knew that Aldo was as much of a threat as the city's
survivors, and he'd just learned that the world in his parents'
future had been destroyed because of a gorilla war.

> I think you gotta read between-and-behind the lines, and not look at
> Caesar (the Protagonist) as if he's an ideal 'hero' of the story.
> There are definitely 'shades of grey' to his personality and
> his 'character'. Even his own WIFE can see that, when she argues with
> him later that night. Being "malformed" makes you
> mentally "mad". "Like the freaks in your foster-father's circus? Were
> THEY mad?"
>
> Not even SHE can talk sense into him -- to puncture his bigoted
> stereotypes. No more than Mendez could talk sense to Kolp. Both of
> these leaders have "No"-men (i.e. the opposite of "Yes"-men), willing
> to argue against their decisions and inclinations... and their
> advice, in BOTH cases, is REJECTED. Kolp rejects Mendez's warnings
> about the cycles of violence ["A destroys B..." etc]. Caesar rejects
> Lisa's arguments ["They're MUTANT... and they're MAD!"].

Caesar's reasoning was sound, but he doesn't bother to explain it
fully. The mutants weren't mad because they were malformed; they were
malformed because their madness made them remain in a city where the
radiation was causing them to mutate.

> And yet some people insist that the film ends on a note of Optimism!
> In a world where the only leaders left ignore and/or reject the
> REASONABLE arguments against a course of action, culminating in armed
> conflict... STILL some people cling to the idea that Caesar somehow
> managed to change HUMAN nature, APE nature (remember, they "joined
> the human race"...), and 'MUTANT' nature, and prevent the Future
> clash of opposing civilizations 2,000 years later.

If you think that Aldo was reasonable, you're as mad as Kolp. It
isn't Human nature that causes war, it's the nature of petty
egotistical leaders with their own agendas (and a willingness to
sacrifice others to achieve their goals) that causes war. Yes, by
breaking that pattern of leadership, Caesar did change the future.

> Patrick

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.html.html In a message dated 8/6/2005 4:17:57 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I wonder why they didn't ride?

Too hard for horses to walk in all that sand?

They did ride in the comic adaption though...
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In a message dated 8/6/2005 2:04:14 P.M. Central Daylight Time, apefan23@... writes:

Those bats were probably rabid.....Most bats are not
going to harm humans.......they have many positive
qualities....formost being....they consume millions of
mosquitoes nightly!

 

I'm all for that.

But of course

Fruit bats look

much cooler.

 

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In a message dated 8/6/2005 2:09:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  A nuclear war might have an effect on child birth, too. Maybe other things, too. - - - Jeff

 

I think Cornelius had a still-born twin bother named Jesse.

 

 

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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/6/2005 11:26:03 AM Central Standard Time,
> Caesar took who he thought would be most helpful. He took MacDonald

because he knew of the tapes, and he could maybe deal with surviving
humans, and Virgil was taken along because he knew of radioactivity.

-- Interestingly though he took guns for protection, wouldn't he have
been better off taking a couple of gorillas with guns for protection?

Neil

If he had taken a gorilla , the brute would have told
Aldo all about it and Aldo proabaly would have shot
all the humans in the corral...

Tim

--- Neil <nfoster@...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> > In a message dated 8/6/2005 11:26:03 AM Central
> Standard Time,
> > Caesar took who he thought would be most helpful.
> He took MacDonald
> because he knew of the tapes, and he could maybe
> deal with surviving
> humans, and Virgil was taken along because he knew
> of radioactivity.
>
> -- Interestingly though he took guns for protection,
> wouldn't he have
> been better off taking a couple of gorillas with
> guns for protection?
>
> Neil
>
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@y...> wrote:

> If he had taken a gorilla , the brute would have told Aldo all about

it and Aldo proabaly would have shot all the humans in the corral...

-- But would he? Just because it is a gorilla does that automatically
mean that he or she would report everything to Aldo, maybe some of
them could have more of a will of their own and not just follow the
rest of the pack.

Neil

AND they stopped THADE from appearing in the new comics!

HURRAH FOR FOX!

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of veetus@...
Sent: Sunday, 7 August 2005 3:37 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Speaking of books

 

  Fox could publish a "Planet of the Apes" book. They already have with those POTA2001 novelizations. They even got an image from the new movie on Boulle's book. - - - Jeff

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 7:41 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Speaking of books

 

In a message dated 8/1/05 10:37:58 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

How about POTA - the MOVIE ADAPTATION.   ?????

Fox would have to still pay rights to the publishing house that currently owns Boulle's novel!

Do you seriously see Fox doing that?

GET REAL!!!!

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>Interesting point about only gorillas riding horses. Any speculation

as to why chimps and orangs do not ride horses or do not ride them as
much?

Elaine

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/6/2005 1:28:54 PM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> > They did NOT go there "in peace" -- no matter WHAT Caesar later

tells his Council. They went there to get what he wanted to get,
ARMED in case they came across any survivors, whom Caesar had already
ASSUMED would be hostile (he knew they'd be 'radiated', hence 'mad').
It's only AFTER having engaged in an armed skirmish with those
surviving humans that he LATER tries to sell his Ape City audience on
the idea that they went in there "in peace". He tries to make it seem
UNREASONABLE for those survivors to have attacked them... even though
we KNOW that Virgil fired the first shots, destroying their
surveillance equipment. That's something an invading force would do --
NOT a friendly "peace" mission.

.html Thanks for the post about horses, Patrick. With what we know about gorillas today, I would see the chimps as the enforcers and soldiers and the gorillas as the intellectuals. However,when Boulle wrote the book, not much was known about gorilla behavior. In pota, the gorillas seemed to be stuck in their role as protectors. Elaine<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...>
wrote:

> Who says the King has to tell the council everything he knows? They

answer to him, not vice versa.

*** Who says? I say! In order to make the RIGHT decision, the Council
needs to make an INFORMED one! By being self-servicingly selective
about what he tells them, Caesar does them no great favor. He
himself, after Aldo and the gorillas storm out in protest,
says: "Now, let us REASON together and make plans."

How can a group make a REASONABLE and RIGHT decision when they don't
have all the facts of the case?

Caesar's own wife questions the reasonableness of his war-
preparations: she knows him better than anyone else, including most
POTA fans, it seems! Caesar successfully discovered the Tapes of his
parents in the Archives, but he BOTCHED the mission by initiating an
armed conflict with those he assumed would be hostile and mad. After
barely escaping with his life, he allows his own misconceptions of
them to be welded into place.

Caesar is wrong on a number of issues. When asked if they were
followed back to Ape City, he says, "We saw no sign of it." Well, he
must not have looked all that hard, because 'mutants' from the City
not only HAD followed them, but were WATCHING THEM AT THAT VERY
MOMENT!!! I'd say this is an example of Caesar's ineptitude. For the
most part, he's a "good and wise" king -- but he ain't perfect! And
his imperfections -- his prejudices and self-servicing apologetics
and marginalization of the gorilla faction -- set the stage for the
tragedy that unfolds, when Aldo ends up killing his son.
---------------------------------------------------------------

> Although there hadn't been fighting between the survivors in the

old city and the inhabitants of Caesar's settlement for twelve years,
that doesn't mean the two groups weren't still hostile toward one
another. When an army fights without any goal beyond the annihilation
of the enemy, negotiation with them is impossible and they don't
deserve mercy. Caesar would've been justified in killing every
survivor he encountered in the city.

*** Listen to yourself. Kolp speculated that Caesar was there
to "reconquer his kingdom". Not once during that 12-year period did
KOLP'S forces ever venture out to find Caesar's people, to wage war
on them. They stayed in the contaminated city and minded their own
business... UNTIL the arrival of Caesar's armed recon mission.

At first, Kolp wanted them taken ALIVE. He wasn't trying to
annihilate them -- he wanted them captured and brought to him so that
he could QUESTION them. But Caesar never made an attempt to
communicate with him, or with anybody. They only made violent and
evasive maneuvers, after having trespassed in the first place. Given
their behavior, it is KOLP who would have been justified in killing
the 3 intruders. Later, convinced that that incursion was but
a "spearhead" before getting the "shaft" of an invasion bent on
extermination, Kolp opts to wage a PRE-EMPTIVE strike on Ape City, to
re-enslave the Apes whom he knows will ultimately debase Man to the
status of a wretched hunted animal (as Zira described under the
influence of sodium pentothal) prior to destroying the entire planet
in "an ape war of aggression".

Kolp SEEMS like the villain of the piece, but his actions are
justified -- to a degree. His ultimate plan -- in the event of a
defeat at the hands of the apes -- IS evil: the detonation of the
Bomb by Alma (in the Extended Version, of course). Yet, one might say
that this would be Kolp's way of preventing the rotten Future from
which the Ape-onauts came. If "Doomsday" is inevitable, why not cut-
to-the-chase and save Man the indignity and two-millennia suffering
of being a hunted animal, subjected to horrific vivisection and all
that? It's not Kolp's right to make that decision on behalf of all
Mankind, mind you. But I can see WHY he might deem it preferable to
the long-dragged-out misery that Man had to look forward to, with
vengeful Apes cracking the whip.
------------------------------------------------------

>
> From the time Aldo nearly runs Caesar over, he is treated like a

dangerous potential enemy. Caesar can't do anything about it overtly
as long as Aldo has the support of the other gorillas, so he
tolerates Aldo's presence, but tells him no more than is necessary.

*** No more than HE deems necessary, perhaps. Or than he wishes, in
an attempt to monopolize the information to make an informed decision.
---------------------------------------------------------------

>
> They went looking for a specific film, and they didn't take anyone

who wasn't necessary. It wasn't a freaking parade. They didn't need
an insubordinate "representative" who owed allegiance to a potential
enemy. That PC crap doesn't work in the real world.

*** PC crap? They anticipated encountering hostile inhabitants of the
Forbidden City -- that's why Mandemus issued them the guns. If Caesar
were to have a gorilla soldier -- one other than Aldo -- accompany
them, he would be showing that soldier that he values his services AS
A SOLDIER. Caesar trusted the gorillas to help fight for their
freedom during "CONQUEST" -- but by this time he has ceased to trust
ALL gorillas, it seems... and THEY seem to have lost trust in him. He
takes the sides of HUMANS against gorillas. Was it a gorilla who
pushed the button that started the Nuclear War... or was it a Human?
Whatever happened to "... there shall be no place for humans, except
to serve our ends..."? After being so damned RIGHT about Man, why did
Caesar do a "180" and get all buddy-buddy with MacDonald and the
other humans? Why does he trust people who once thrived on the slave
labor of Apes over the Apes who SUFFERED under that burden?

If EVERY gorilla "owed allegiance" to Aldo, as you infer, it would be
because Aldo has THEIR INTERESTS in mind, and Caesar does NOT (in
their view). By not trusting even ONE gorilla enough to accompany him
on his secret mission into the Forbidden City, he was telling ALL
gorillas what he thought of them. If I were a gorilla who remembered
being electrically tortured in Ape Management... and knew that Caesar
cleverly AVOIDED such torture... I'd be more inclined to sympathize
with a leader who had SHARED my misfortunes.

Caesar once was a strike-back-at-them revolutionary... and then he
got soft. Dangerously soft. He trusts HUMANS too damn much, from
their perspective. He EARNED the mistrust of the gorillas, who
respond in kind. Caesar set the stage for his own family tragedy.
-----------------------------------------------------------

>
> Caesar knew that Aldo was as much of a threat as the city's
> survivors, and he'd just learned that the world in his parents'
> future had been destroyed because of a gorilla war.

*** So... that makes ALL GORILLAS inherently evil and prone to war,
eh? I suppose that goes for Perdix, too, in "The Deception". And Zako
in "The Trap". Irredeemably prone to starting and waging wars.

It is Caesar's expectation of the WORST from the gorillas that leads
to the mistrust that poisons the 'eden' of Ape City. When he learns
of the destruction of the Earth, he eventually says, "I know what I
want to change." When he meets Aldo next, he issues what Aldo has
every right to consider a thinly-veiled threat: "Then ALDO will very
soon be in the Past!" Aldo has every right to interpret that line as
an intention for Caesar to violate the "most sacred law": that Ape
shall never kill Ape -- Aldo. That probably has as much to do with
Aldo's decision -- communicated with his fellow gorillas -- to seize
the guns and smash the humans... and then to smash Caesar -- BEFORE
Caesar can make good on his wittily-worded threat.

Aldo has every right to interpret Caesar's actions as being equally
threatening to the Apes as Caesar's view regarding Aldo. Aldo doesn't
have the benefit of the Knowledge that Caesar obtained in the
Archives... because Caesar DENIES him that knowledge, in the most
insulting and condescending way. No wonder Aldo gets fed up with him.
-----------------------------------------------------------

> Caesar's reasoning was sound, but he doesn't bother to explain it

fully. The mutants weren't mad because they were malformed; they were
malformed because their madness made them remain in a city where the
radiation was causing them to mutate.

*** True: the HUMANS who continued to live in the City would have
been better off LEAVING it, to find a "greener pasture" where they
could get food, and all that. When the Captain returns to Kolp's
command post, he describes orchards that can feed thousands --
evidence that they WANT such bounty for themselves and didn't know it
was to be had out there.

They PROBABLY thought that there was nothing inhabitable near enough
for them to find. They can't go outside easily, since the sunlight
harms their eyes (which is why the fleeing Trio is not immediately
followed by the few who emerge from the subterranean regions on their
heels). They didn't even know that those "greener pastures" were out
there any more UNTIL THE ARRIVAL OF CAESAR on their turf.

You say that the "mutants weren't mad because they were malformed",
and you're right: but CAESAR BELIEVES IT TO BE SO. That's EXACTLY
what he tells Lisa, when he tries to justify his decisions to her. He
differentiates THOSE humans from the ones living in Ape City,
claiming that they are the "end product" of nuclear radiation -- that
being dosed by radiation CHANGES people into some kind of insane
version of what they once were. A HOSTILE version. Caesar is WRONG
about this, as is Virgil (whose supposed brilliance is sadly mistaken
on this matter). Their preconceived notion that ANY human they meet
in the ruins of the City MUST be mutated and, thus, insane prevents
them from being willing to establish peaceful communication with
them. They SNEAK into the city and -- when they find out they're
being surveilled -- Virgil (the supposed brainiac) uses his machine
gun to DESTROY the camera.

The 'mutants' may have stayed in the city for a very good reason: the
ONLY food supplies they may have known of may have been the MREs that
were stored up there. It's better to stay where you KNOW there's food
than to venture out into a surface blasted into a wasteland where
there might very well NOT be any food within a hundred miles or more.

And, let's not forget that these people are very probably SHELL-
SHOCKED by the Nuclear War that wiped out the surface world. At
least, in the contaminated ruins, they still have REMNANTS of the
civilization that once flourished. They have water and electrical
power, and (evidently) food supplies... and they haven't all died
from radiation poisoning. They've SURVIVED. Where there's LIFE,
there's HOPE.

And that's not Madness at all.
--------------------------------------------------------

>
> If you think that Aldo was reasonable, you're as mad as Kolp. It
> isn't Human nature that causes war, it's the nature of petty
> egotistical leaders with their own agendas (and a willingness to
> sacrifice others to achieve their goals) that causes war. Yes, by
> breaking that pattern of leadership, Caesar did change the future.

*** If Caesar truly believes that he broke that pattern of leadership
all by himself, then he's a fool. He'd have to kill every goddamn
gorilla in order to eradicate it, based on his already-conceived
notion that gorillas are prone to instigate and wage destructive
wars.

In his own way, Caesar himself is a "petty egotistical leader with
his own agenda". His egotism is rooted in the belief that under HIS
rule, the Earth will sail on through the Universe until the End of
Time, etc. Only an egotist would believe themselves so perfect as to
accomplish that feat!

Caesar has faults that you don't seem to want to recognize -- faults
that his WIFE can see. That's not to say that he doesn't have his
virtues, though. When he makes the decision to get his forces to
cease firing on the retreating invaders, he's showing mercy and
letting those humans know that he doesn't desire their utter
destruction -- which was within his grasp.

And yet... his decision to allow them to flee in retreat puts the
entire world at risk -- though he cannot know this. He doesn't know
that Kolp intends to send a radio signal to Alma to detonate the
Bomb, having lost the battle. It is the arrival of ALDO and his take-
no-prisoners approach that leads to Kolp's death in that schoolbus.
Kolp never gets to make that call...

And, though Alma almost follows through anyway, she is prevented by
the persuasions of the peacenik Mendez. The fate of the world was out
of Caesar's hands then -- and he, ignorant of all this, is deluded if
he thinks he can have the long-term influence that he hopes to have.
It's alright to hope for it, and to work for a better Future... but
to claim that he HAS changed it goes beyond the bound. Not even
the 'nice' Lawgiver, living 600 years after Caesar's death, is SURE
that the Future was changed. He acknowledges that they live in HOPE.

Patrick

.html <.html

.html
-- <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , taebokitti@a... wrote:

> Interesting point about only gorillas riding horses. Any speculation

as to why chimps and orangs do not ride horses or do not ride them as
much?

-- Probably has something to do with what job they do.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> Aldo says, "Now we go BACK to riding horses!" That suggests to me

that they once USED to ride horses, constantly -- it being their
primary duty to the community as its Protectors.

-- I always took that line to mean that they were just going back to
what they were doing before they trashed the schoolhouse or whatever
it was they just did.

Neil

.html
-- <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> So... that makes ALL GORILLAS inherently evil and prone to war,

eh? I suppose that goes for Perdix, too, in "The Deception". And Zako
in "The Trap". Irredeemably prone to starting and waging wars.

-- Just like humans. About time we banded together, rose up and
revolted against these damn dirty apes.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Oh - there he is! I thought you would have just crashed out after
> celebrating! :-)
>
> Did we SCARE you?

-- Just a tad, I thought it was gone! What a fitting end to a most
fantastic match, how can they top this one!
Of course it was only fair that the team that won really did deserve
to, remember they weren't just fighting the #1 team they were
playing against the press as well after the debacle at Lords.

Shades of '81, sends a shiver down me spine!

And then the apes have to fight a bloody war of attrition with the
highly organized and armed human insurgents...


Neil

Thanks for this info Jeff. When it comes to apes in the movies, Kong
will be in the spotlight over 'our' apes in the coming months,.... but
thats OK with me as Kong was and still is a classic and well deserving
of a bit of a revival.

Ray Harryhausen was in Montreal 2 weeks ago and I went down to see
him. There was a question and answer session where the discussion of
Kong inevitably came up. He mentioned that he actually talked to
Jackson and felt confortable with how the new movie was going to be
handled. Hope he is right. Harryhausen literrally started making his
armature miniatures immediately after seeing Kong as a kid so had it
not been for Kong, we would probably not enjoyed all the Harryhausen
marvels.

This new DVD with all the extras sounds like a jem and now I know what
to reply when someone asks me what I would like to get for X-mas. But
I may decide to celebrate X-mas a little early this year. Maybe
November 22nd.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: veetus@...
Date: Saturday, August 6, 2005 12:59 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] OT: Old "King Kong"

>
> Still no word on a new POTA movie, so we'll have to take our
> classic apes where we can find them. Warner Home Video has
> announced the details on their DVD release of Arthur Jacobs'
> favorite movie, "King Kong". It's being released on November 22nd.
> First of all, the movie which has been rumored to look gorgeous
> for awhile. Warner's George Feltenstein talked to "the Hollywood
> Reporter", saying they've wanted to release "Kong" on DVD since
> 1997 when the format started. But, he says, "we didn't have good
> film elements". Kong's original distributor, RKO Radio Pictures,
> was sold in 1957 and the rights to it's films were scattered to
> the wind. The studio's library was not maintained and now the
> original negative to "Kong" no longer exists. He said they went on
> a "worldwide search for the earlier nitrate materials. And it
> literally took eight years to get the right film elements. We
> wound up using several different nitrate sources from archives in
> Europe so we could make the best possible master and then put them
> through our own restoration process. Nothing was here in the
> United States - - nothing of any decency".
> Then there's the extras on the 2-disc set. Peter Jackson stepped
> up to the plate and wanted to help out, despite this DVD being
> released by Warners and his remake being made by Universal
> (Feltenstein insists the DVD is being released now because it
> finally came together and that Jackson's new movie is "actually a
> coincidence"). Jackson is at work on the 2 hour, 7 part DVD
> documentary "RKO Production 601: The Making of Kong, the Eighth
> Wonder of the World" which will be the main feature of the extras.
> "Fans of this film are going to go crazy; we've got everything but
> the kitchen sink on here". A section of the doc will focus on the
> famous lost "spider pit" sequence. "For years, there has always
> been speculation - - does this footage exist? - - so we have a
> piece that actually explains what it was and we do a recreation of
> it. For fans of the film, that's a big, important thing".
> Reportedly, Jackson's remake revisits this sequence, too. The DVD
> will also include a documentary on "Kong" creator and director
> Merian C. Cooper, a trailer gallery of Cooper's other films, and
> commentary tracks from FX legend Ray Harryhausen, actress Terry
> Moore ("Mighty Joe Young") and famed FX guy Ken Ralston ("Star
> Wars"). It's a damn shame they didn't do a commentary track with
> Fay Wray before she died recently, but that's show biz. A
> commentary track with Jackson would be good. Maybe? I know he
> shows his collection in an extra.
> Now for the editions. You can buy the standard 2-disc set. Or
> you can buy the set in a collectible tin with a 20 -page
> reproduction of the original souvenir program, postcard
> reproductions of the original one sheets and an offer to mail in
> for a reproduction of a vintage 27-by-41 " movie poster. OR you
> can buy a 4-disc set that comes with "Son of Kong" and "Mighty Joe
> Young" ("Joe" will have extras, too). So, November 22nd. Jackson's
> remake comes out around Dec. 14. - - - Jeff
>
>

That's just it. If Thade had been in some sort of precarious situation
or in any danger, then if he cried out like a wuss, that would fit
right in. But all that happened was that he was trapped in that
control room. Ooooh scary! He just fell to pieces for no reason at
all. I actually thought that maybe I had missed something the first
time I saw it. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: veetus@...
Date: Saturday, August 6, 2005 3:12 pm
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics

> Bullies are usually cowards. Why should Thade be any different? -
> - - Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dario Sciola" <darios@...>
> To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 6:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics
>
>
> > Yeah but the absolutely silly, childish, lamebrain ending to
> 2001 had
> > Thade back on Earth (which is the Planet of the Apes) to impact
> Earth> history. So potentially another braindead plot could try to
> unite the
> > two.
> >
> > As for 2001 itself, while not a 'strong' movie by any means, it
> really> was the silly attempt to create a memorable ending that
> made me groan.
> > The other aspect that really irked me was the manner in which the
> > almost invincible Thade becomes a moaning frightened child only
> > because he is trapped. That was so out of character it just
> ruined it.
> > It's like the writer got to that scene and realized that the end of
> > the movie was near so he just terminated the character with a
> line or
> > two. I actually thought that Thade was an interesting (vile,
> > despicable, evil, yes... but interesting) character until that
> point.>
> > Dario
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: LordTZer0@...
> > Date: Thursday, August 4, 2005 9:08 am
> > Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Help for Comics
> >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 8/4/2005 7:14:49 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > > darios@... writes:
> > >
> > > You can tell them that I will NOT buy it if they somehow try to
> > > bring
> > > in POTA 2001 into this
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There is an argument for that.
> > > It was on another planet. So
> > > if Earth IS the Planet of the Apes,
> > > Then technically That was NOT
> > > on the Planet of the Apes.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------ --------------------
> ~-->
> <font face=arial size=-
>
1>http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=12h2ehmap/M=362335.6886444.7839734.257544
9/D=groups/S=1705021437:TM/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1123361758/A=2894362/R=0/SIG=138
c78jl6/*http://www.networkforgood.org/topics/arts_culture/?
source=YAHOO&cmpgn=GRP&RTP=http://groups.yahoo.com/">What would our
lives be like without music, dance, and theater?Donate or volunteer in
the arts today at Network for Good.</font>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Well, like I've said, the spotlight on "King Kong" can only help POTA.
Just like "X-Men" and "Spiderman" initiated the comic book era and Jackson's
"Lord of the Rings" made fantasy hot again after it was dead for a long
time. What the studios don't seem to understand is it's the stories, not the
trappings, that make a hit. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dario Sciola" <darios@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 5:33 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] OT: Old "King Kong"


> Thanks for this info Jeff. When it comes to apes in the movies, Kong
> will be in the spotlight over 'our' apes in the coming months,.... but
> thats OK with me as Kong was and still is a classic and well deserving
> of a bit of a revival.
>
> Ray Harryhausen was in Montreal 2 weeks ago and I went down to see
> him. There was a question and answer session where the discussion of
> Kong inevitably came up. He mentioned that he actually talked to
> Jackson and felt confortable with how the new movie was going to be
> handled. Hope he is right. Harryhausen literrally started making his
> armature miniatures immediately after seeing Kong as a kid so had it
> not been for Kong, we would probably not enjoyed all the Harryhausen
> marvels.
>
> This new DVD with all the extras sounds like a jem and now I know what
> to reply when someone asks me what I would like to get for X-mas. But
> I may decide to celebrate X-mas a little early this year. Maybe
> November 22nd.
>
> Dario
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: veetus@...
> Date: Saturday, August 6, 2005 12:59 pm
> Subject: [PotaDG] OT: Old "King Kong"
>
> >
> > Still no word on a new POTA movie, so we'll have to take our
> > classic apes where we can find them. Warner Home Video has
> > announced the details on their DVD release of Arthur Jacobs'
> > favorite movie, "King Kong". It's being released on November 22nd.
> > First of all, the movie which has been rumored to look gorgeous
> > for awhile. Warner's George Feltenstein talked to "the Hollywood
> > Reporter", saying they've wanted to release "Kong" on DVD since
> > 1997 when the format started. But, he says, "we didn't have good
> > film elements". Kong's original distributor, RKO Radio Pictures,
> > was sold in 1957 and the rights to it's films were scattered to
> > the wind. The studio's library was not maintained and now the
> > original negative to "Kong" no longer exists. He said they went on
> > a "worldwide search for the earlier nitrate materials. And it
> > literally took eight years to get the right film elements. We
> > wound up using several different nitrate sources from archives in
> > Europe so we could make the best possible master and then put them
> > through our own restoration process. Nothing was here in the
> > United States - - nothing of any decency".
> > Then there's the extras on the 2-disc set. Peter Jackson stepped
> > up to the plate and wanted to help out, despite this DVD being
> > released by Warners and his remake being made by Universal
> > (Feltenstein insists the DVD is being released now because it
> > finally came together and that Jackson's new movie is "actually a
> > coincidence"). Jackson is at work on the 2 hour, 7 part DVD
> > documentary "RKO Production 601: The Making of Kong, the Eighth
> > Wonder of the World" which will be the main feature of the extras.
> > "Fans of this film are going to go crazy; we've got everything but
> > the kitchen sink on here". A section of the doc will focus on the
> > famous lost "spider pit" sequence. "For years, there has always
> > been speculation - - does this footage exist? - - so we have a
> > piece that actually explains what it was and we do a recreation of
> > it. For fans of the film, that's a big, important thing".
> > Reportedly, Jackson's remake revisits this sequence, too. The DVD
> > will also include a documentary on "Kong" creator and director
> > Merian C. Cooper, a trailer gallery of Cooper's other films, and
> > commentary tracks from FX legend Ray Harryhausen, actress Terry
> > Moore ("Mighty Joe Young") and famed FX guy Ken Ralston ("Star
> > Wars"). It's a damn shame they didn't do a commentary track with
> > Fay Wray before she died recently, but that's show biz. A
> > commentary track with Jackson would be good. Maybe? I know he
> > shows his collection in an extra.
> > Now for the editions. You can buy the standard 2-disc set. Or
> > you can buy the set in a collectible tin with a 20 -page
> > reproduction of the original souvenir program, postcard
> > reproductions of the original one sheets and an offer to mail in
> > for a reproduction of a vintage 27-by-41 " movie poster. OR you
> > can buy a 4-disc set that comes with "Son of Kong" and "Mighty Joe
> > Young" ("Joe" will have extras, too). So, November 22nd. Jackson's
> > remake comes out around Dec. 14. - - - Jeff
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

In a message dated 8/8/2005 7:47:46 A.M. Central Daylight Time, darios@... writes:

Ooooh scary!  He just fell to pieces for no reason at all.

Not true.  Ever been hit by a ricochet from your own

gun?  It's pretty damned spooky.  People have died that

way you know.  I have one around somewhere as a lucky

charm.  Lucky it was a .45.  They're heavy and slow.  It

hit the block holding the target at an indoor range.  It was

near spent when it bounced off my chest.  But boy was the

owner pissed for shooting up his block.  But it was the gun

not me.  He had to prove that to himself though. So he took

a shot with my gun and nailed it again. Serves him right

for not taking my word for it in the first place!

 

 

<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 8/8/05 5:03:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, johnbkirtley@... writes:

Just saw a new box set in MVC (Uk).
It is a box set of the original film (DVD) and the book ?

What's MVC?  Have you got a link?

-- Rory<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "John Brandon Kirtley"
<johnbkirtley@h...> wrote:

> Just saw a new box set in MVC (Uk).
> It is a box set of the original film (DVD) and the book ?
> The it doesn't say whether it is Monkey planet or an adaption of the

film script. The cover looks like the anniverary artwork.

> Anyone know more about thisrelease or have I missed a few
> postings?

-- Any chance of a link?

Neil

For all of you asking for links, I just googled "mvc planet apes" and
this was the first hit:

http://www.mvc.co.uk/common/product..htmlpid=50450131

Remember, Google is your friend. ;)

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: John Brandon Kirtley <johnbkirtley@...>
Date: Monday, August 8, 2005 5:02 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] MVC ? New offer on POTA movie?

> Just saw a new box set in MVC (Uk).
> It is a box set of the original film (DVD) and the book ?
> The it doesn't say whether it is Monkey planet or an adaption of
> the film script. The cover looks like the anniverary artwork.
> Anyone know more about thisrelease or have I missed a few
> postings?
>
> John Kirtley (Uk)

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Dario Sciola <darios@n...> wrote:

> For all of you asking for links, I just googled "mvc planet apes"

and

> this was the first hit:
>
> http://www.mvc.co.uk/common/product..htmlpid=50450131
>
> Remember, Google is your friend. ;)

-- Thanks Dario, from the eternally slothful.

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 9:14 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: MVC ? New offer on POTA movie?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@n...> wrote:
> For all of you asking for links, I just googled "mvc planet apes"
and
> this was the first hit:
>
> http://www.mvc.co.uk/common/product..htmlpid=50450131
>
> Remember, Google is your friend. ;)

-- Thanks Dario, from the eternally slothful.

Neil

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/8/2005 5:11:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

The cover looks like the anniverary artwork.

 

I can't believe they're still using that Statue of Liberty cover.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/8/2005 6:17:56 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

It still does not give much away!

 

I can't wait for my copy of Citizen Cane

with the sled on the cover.

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/8/2005 4:55:17 P.M. Central Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

BENEATH THE DIGNITY OF THE APES

 

Is this for real?

And does the POTA2K1 parody count?

 

<.html

.htmlI have a Cracked issue with a parody of "Magazines on the Planet of the Apes"<.html

In a message dated 8/8/2005 5:11:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, nfoster@... writes:

The cover looks like the anniverary artwork.

 

I can't believe they're still using that Statue of Liberty cover.

 

.html.html In a message dated 8/8/2005 6:17:56 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

It still does not give much away!

Whitty,

Did you ever get your Japanese DVD box set with the Icarus ship case?
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 Here's the official list of extras on the "King Kong" 2-disc DVD set (the original movie). It ain't POTA but we gotta root for the ape culture:

 

  audio commentary (Ray Harryhausen & Ken Ralston, with (presumably from archives) Merian C. Cooper, Ernest B. Schoedsack, Ruth Rose, Fay Wray and Robert Armstrong)

 

 2 - hr. documentary: "RKO Production 601: The making of King Kong" (this doc is listed as "By Peter Jackson"):

 1) Origins of "King Kong"

 2) Willis O'Brien and "Creation"

 3) Cameras Roll on Kong

 4) The 8th Wonder

 5) A Milestone in Visual FX

 6) Passion, Sound and Fury

 7)Mystery of the Lost Spider Pit Sequence

 8)King Kong's Legacy

 

 documentary: "I'm Kong: The Exploits of Merian C. Cooper (+ a gallery of trailers for his films)

 

  Also available will be the sequel 'Son Of Kong" (no extras, just the trailer) and "Mighty Joe Young", which will have a commentary by Harryhausen, Ralston and actress Terry Moore), and two documentaries ("Ray Harryhausen and the Chiodo Bros." and "Ray Harryhausen and Mighty Joe Young"). Also being released will be "The Last Days of Pompeii", a movie from the team behind "Kong".

  For a gander at the cover art, go to:

  http://www.thedigitalbits.com/#kspec   - - - Jeff

 

.html.html One thing about all these extras -- I'm sure going to be sick of the sight of Peter Jackson's fat ass after I watch them all!

-- Rory<.html<.html

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Loved the home movies!

It's just what I would have

done if I'd been on the set.

Stuck my camera in everyone's

face while their on break!

Thanks!

 

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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
> <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > Aldo says, "Now we go BACK to riding horses!" That suggests to me

that they once USED to ride horses, constantly -- it being their
primary duty to the community as its Protectors.

>
> -- I always took that line to mean that they were just going back

to what they were doing before they trashed the schoolhouse or
whatever it was they just did.

>
> Neil

*** Well, we don't know what the other gorillas had been doing before
the start of class, but Aldo was riding a horse all by himself -- he
wasn't participating in a collective riding-of-horses with other
gorillas. Hence, no "cavalry practice" by a squad of gorilla
soldiers, overseen by Aldo.

Given the lack of writing skill evinced by Aldo, as well as the
general sense that the other gorillas share his anti-human and anti-
Teacher views ["I can think of better things to hang from those
hooks..." followed by their agreement], it seems to me that these
ADULT gorillas are behind-the-curve of Education. They attend a class
with CHILDREN, unlike Virgil's tutorial with Chimpanzee and Orangutan
ADULTS. Gorillas are behind-the-curve of Education either because
they're inherently STUPID (which I think is racist... an opinion
Zira, unfortunately, comes to have), or they've been DEPRIVED of
prior education, and are being forced to play catch-up.

Cornelius' line, too: "If my father were a gorilla, we'd all be
learning RIDING instead of WRITING." Caesar, being a chimp (and the
King of the Apes & Humans), has the authority to mandate schooling
for reluctant gorillas. Cornelius obviously knows that if ALDO were
in charge, not only would he [Aldo] himself be free to ride his
horse, but ALL other apes (and not just all other gorillas) would be
training regularly for cavalry duty. All Apes would be participants
in their military, as they all were when they collectively defeated
Breck's armed forces in "CONQUEST".

By the time of the TV show, horse-riding is something that is
strictly reserved for Apes -- Humans do so at their peril, subject to
the Death Penalty. I think that the seeds of those power-politics are
sown at the beginnings of Ape History. One of the few things that can
elevate one group above another would be the use of the only
available "fast-transit" left: Horse-riding. There ain't no cars or
motorcycles or bicycles left, I'm guessing. The Apes eventually gain
this advantage -- with laws drafted to criminalize Human horse-riding
(for 'their own good', Prefect Barlow maintains -- hah!).

Denying humans the freedom to ride horses keeps them at a competitive
disadvantage. It eventually helps cement the later notion that they
are Animals: if they habitually rode horses during "PLANET"
and "BENEATH", then their tool-using ability would set them apart
from true 'animals'.

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@i...>
wrote:

> I have a Cracked issue with a parody of "Magazines on the Planet of

the Apes"
If I can locate it, I'll verify the title and let you know the author
and the issue number.

-- Great, thanks Anthony. Would begging for scans be too much?

Neil

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> And does the POTA2K1 parody count?

 

-- Yes it does, thanks for reminding me of that one.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 7:59 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Parodies on the Planet of the Apes

> And does the POTA2K1 parody count?

 

-- Yes it does, thanks for reminding me of that one.

 

Neil

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.html.html In a message dated 8/9/05 4:35:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Loved the home movies!
It's just what I would have
done if I'd been on the set.
Stuck my camera in everyone's
face while their on break!

Thanks!

What this is about, Folks, is that I sent a DVD copy of McDowall's home movies to T.  I guess he got it.

Re-watching them again I found Linda Harrison's annoyance at Roddy McDowall taking her picture to be really obnoxious.  Who did she think she was?  The girlfriend of the studio chief or something?

Oh, yeah.  Right....

Poor Roddy.... No one at the time appreciated what he was doing, but we do now.

-- Rory<.html <.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 9:22 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Roddy's Home Movies

In a message dated 8/9/05 4:35:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, LordTZer0@... writes:

Loved the home movies!
It's just what I would have
done if I'd been on the set.
Stuck my camera in everyone's
face while their on break!

Thanks!

What this is about, Folks, is that I sent a DVD copy of McDowall's home movies to T.  I guess he got it.

Re-watching them again I found Linda Harrison's annoyance at Roddy McDowall taking her picture to be really obnoxious.  Who did she think she was?  The girlfriend of the studio chief or something?

Oh, yeah.  Right....

Poor Roddy.... No one at the time appreciated what he was doing, but we do now.

-- Rory

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Are these the same home movies that are on the
"Beyond" disc?

Tim


--- Haristas@... wrote:

> In a message dated 8/9/05 4:35:07 PM Eastern
> Daylight Time, LordTZer0@...
> writes:
>
>
> > Loved the home movies!
> > It's just what I would have
> > done if I'd been on the set.
> > Stuck my camera in everyone's
> > face while their on break!
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
>
> What this is about, Folks, is that I sent a DVD copy
> of McDowall's home
> movies to T. I guess he got it.
>
> Re-watching them again I found Linda Harrison's
> annoyance at Roddy McDowall
> taking her picture to be really obnoxious. Who did
> she think she was? The
> girlfriend of the studio chief or something?
>
> Oh, yeah. Right....
>
> Poor Roddy.... No one at the time appreciated what
> he was doing, but we do
> now.
>
> -- Rory
>

.html.html In a message dated 8/9/05 8:10:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, apefan23@... writes:

Are these the same home movies that are on the
"Beyond" disc?

Tim

"Beyond"?  I think you mean "Behind."  If so, no.  Those are the outtakes and dailies.  Bits of McDowall's Home Movies can be seen in the Behind documentary, but the 18 min compilation of his 16mm stuff is only on the 35th Anniversary edition DVD of PLANET.

-- Rory<.html <.html

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----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 12:03 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Official "King Kong" extras

One thing about all these extras -- I'm sure going to be sick of the sight of Peter Jackson's fat ass after I watch them all!

-- Rory

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Jake Le Master
Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 1:47 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Official "King Kong" extras

yeah, he seriously is a twig now, but he wears the same size clothes that he did when he was fat.  Its hilarious.

veetus@... wrote:

   I guess you haven't seen him lately. He's not a fat ass anymore. He's more like Twiggy. - - - Jeff

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 12:03 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Official "King Kong" extras

One thing about all these extras -- I'm sure going to be sick of the sight of Peter Jackson's fat ass after I watch them all!

-- Rory