Yahoo! potadg group — Messages 33373–33472

Dates: 2005-12-03 through 2005-12-04

Messages in potadg group. Page 147 of 451.
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Group: potadg Message: 33373 From: Anthony B. McElveen Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33374 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33375 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33376 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Story
Group: potadg Message: 33377 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Story
Group: potadg Message: 33378 From: Neil T Foster Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #31
Group: potadg Message: 33379 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
Group: potadg Message: 33380 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Bases are loaded
Group: potadg Message: 33381 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Story - LANDON
Group: potadg Message: 33382 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Story - LANDON
Group: potadg Message: 33383 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33384 From: Neil Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33385 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33386 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33387 From: Neil T Foster Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Hello!
Group: potadg Message: 33388 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33389 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33390 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Time....
Group: potadg Message: 33391 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33392 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33393 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Time....
Group: potadg Message: 33394 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Time....
Group: potadg Message: 33395 From: Neil Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33396 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
Group: potadg Message: 33397 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Time....
Group: potadg Message: 33398 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33399 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33400 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33401 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Story - LANDON
Group: potadg Message: 33402 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: A Question or two to ponder...
Group: potadg Message: 33403 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Story
Group: potadg Message: 33404 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #31
Group: potadg Message: 33405 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33406 From: stigbunny Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33407 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Story - Lady apes
Group: potadg Message: 33408 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33409 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33410 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33411 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Landon's fate...and other stories
Group: potadg Message: 33412 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33413 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33414 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33415 From: John Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG
Group: potadg Message: 33416 From: John Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33417 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story - LANDON
Group: potadg Message: 33418 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33419 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33420 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33421 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33422 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33423 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Lady apes
Group: potadg Message: 33424 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33425 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Lady apes
Group: potadg Message: 33426 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33427 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33428 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33429 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story
Group: potadg Message: 33430 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: A Question or two to ponder...
Group: potadg Message: 33431 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #31
Group: potadg Message: 33432 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33433 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33434 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: A Question or two to ponder...
Group: potadg Message: 33435 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33436 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33437 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: ....is it all one big infinite loop?
Group: potadg Message: 33438 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33439 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33440 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33441 From: nlmoxham Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33442 From: stigbunny Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33443 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33444 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story - LANDON
Group: potadg Message: 33445 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33446 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33447 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33448 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33449 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33450 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33451 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33452 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33453 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
Group: potadg Message: 33454 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story - LANDON
Group: potadg Message: 33455 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Travel Permits
Group: potadg Message: 33456 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33457 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33458 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
Group: potadg Message: 33459 From: Neil T Foster Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #32
Group: potadg Message: 33460 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: New Chapter of WITHIN
Group: potadg Message: 33461 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
Group: potadg Message: 33462 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: ANOTHER New Chapter of WITHIN! I love this one......
Group: potadg Message: 33463 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: New Chapter of WITHIN
Group: potadg Message: 33464 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: ANOTHER New Chapter of WITHIN! I love this one......
Group: potadg Message: 33465 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
Group: potadg Message: 33466 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Lady apes
Group: potadg Message: 33467 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
Group: potadg Message: 33468 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Huh?!?!
Group: potadg Message: 33469 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #31
Group: potadg Message: 33470 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: New Chapter of WITHIN
Group: potadg Message: 33471 From: PofTAfan@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: New Chapter of WITHIN
Group: potadg Message: 33472 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
Subject: Re: Huh?!?!


Group: potadg Message: 33373 From: Anthony B. McElveen Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
.html
On Dec 3, 2005, at 11:34 a.m., patrickmichaeltilton wrote:

> T, I think you and I interpret the dialogue from "PLANET" in
> different ways. For the sake of this discussion, here's the verbatim
> dialogue from the Tribunal scene:
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
>
> CORNELIUS "May it please the Tribunal... I, for one, grant you that
> this creature cannot have come from another planet, but this much is
> certain: He does come from somewhere in the Forbidden Zone. He's
> described the region to us and described it accurately, for... I have
> been there."
>
> PRESIDENT OF THE ACADEMY "You visited the Forbidden Zone?!"
>
> CORNELIUS "Yes, sir. Uh, a year ago -- with the special permission of
> the Academy."
>
> ZAIUS "He exceeded his orders. His travel permit was cancelled
> immediately."
>
> CORNELIUS "Yes, sir, that is true. Thanks to you. But... not before I
> discovered evidence of a simian culture that existed long before the
> Sacred Scrolls were written."
>
> HONORIUS "Objection! These remarks are profane and irrelevant!"
>
> -----------------------------------------------------
>
> At first glance, it appears that Cornelius is saying that he received
> from the Academy the "special permission" to travel into the
> Forbidden Zone a year earlier in order to do archaeological work.
>
> I'm not so sure that that is what this line means. Why? Because Zaius
> goes out of his way to say that Cornelius "exceeded his orders". He
> went "out of bounds" in some way.

When someone is given permission to enter a restricted area, such as
a foreign country, they're usually given a limited time in which to
do so, and they're expected to stay within certain "safe" areas. In
my opinion, it's analogous to being given a special visa to enter a
communist country for scientific study. Cornelius probably strayed
outside the approved areas, stayed too long in the cave he
discovered, and then didn't immediately report what he'd found there.

> We know from elsewhere in "PLANET" that the region is called the
> Forbidden Zone because "the greatest Ape of all" -- their Lawgiver --
> had pronounced "THIS WHOLE AREA" to be "deadly". Here's the dialogue
> from that later scene:
>
> ----------------------------------------------
>
> TAYLOR "Cornelius? Where does this river lead to?"
>
> CORNELIUS "It flows into a sea some miles from here. That's where
> we'll find the diggings."
>
> TAYLOR "And beyond that?"
>
> CORNELIUS "I don't know. You can't ride along the shore at high tide,
> and we had no boats on our last expedition."
>
> TAYLOR "You never told me: Why do you call this the Forbidden Zone?"
>
> CORNELIUS "No one knows. It's an ancient taboo, set forth in the
> Sacred Scrolls. The Lawgiver pronounced this whole area deadly."
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
> In other words, the Lawgiver (circa 1,200 years earlier) had
> pronounced an entire area to be deadly, thereby instituting a TABOO.
> Whether or not the Lawgiver named this deadly area "the Forbidden
> Zone" or if the society that inherited his Sacred Scrolls coined the
> term, is immaterial: the area -- what Cornelius calls "this whole
> area" -- is FORBIDDEN.

All laws (except the natural ones) have exceptions, and religious
taboos are often abandoned as society evolves. Not many taboos are
backed up by laws.

> The President of the Academy replies with surprise and shock when
> Cornelius hesitatingly admits that he himself had been there (see the
> dialogue above).
>
> If the same Academy that he is the 'president' of had given "special
> permission" for ANY ape to travel into this place that has been
> FORBIDDEN to apes by their Lawgiver (whose "spirit... still lives"
> etc), then the PRESIDENT of this Academy would sure as hell have been
> informed of it! The population of Apedom (according to the extended
> scene of "BENEATH", when Ursus and Zaius chat in the steamroom) is
> only in the thousands. It's fair to say that NO APE in history had
> ever been given permission by the government to violate a sacred
> taboo. Honorius refers to Cornelius' statement (about a pre-Sacred
> Scrolls simian culture) as "PROFANE" and irrelevant. He isn't
> implying that Cornelius used "profanity" -- i.e. "harsh language" --
> he's implying that Cornelius' statement is blasphemous.

When Cornelius presented artifacts to the Academy to support his
ideas about evolution, the location where they were found wouldn't
have seemed particularly relevant to him. For him, the important
factor was that they were manufactured. The Apes probably found
isolated artifacts all the time and immediately dismissed them as
worthless because random junk has no meaning. It's only when they
were found together in situ that Cornelius could see that they were
pieces of a puzzle that could be assembled into a bigger picture.

> This Ape culture is dominated by religious laws. I don't think that
> any ape is ever allowed to venture into the Forbidden Zone (save, in
> an emergency, the Chief Defender of the Faith -- Zaius -- and those
> forces in his command accompanying him, the gorillas who go with him
> to the Cave).
>
> So... how do I explain away Cornelius line? "Yes, sir. Uh, a year
> ago -- with the special permission of the Academy." Does this, or
> does it not mean that Cornelius was given "the special permission of
> the Academy" to travel into the Forbidden Zone?
>
> I think it means that he was given the "special permission" to
> TRAVEL, period. Else, what does Zaius' line mean? "He EXCEEDED HIS
> ORDERS. His TRAVEL PERMIT was cancelled immediately!"
>
> Not his TRAVEL-INTO-THE-FORBIDDEN-ZONE PERMIT. His TRAVEL permit.
> Despite being given permission to travel (and, presumably, do
> archaological work), he wasn't given permission to travel BEYOND THE
> LEGAL BOUNDS. He was NOT given permission to travel into the
> Forbidden Zone by the Academy.
>
> Zaius' line doesn't make any sense if it can be construed that SOME
> parts of the Forbidden Zone are not REALLY all that forbidden, so
> that Cornelius could have been given permission to travel to the not-
> quite-as-forbidden portion of the Forbidden Zone, just as long as he
> didn't go beyond that portion into the absolutely-forbidden part.
>
> I think -- taken in context -- that Cornelius had to get permission
> from the Academy to TRAVEL, and that he had acquired their "special
> permission" to travel WITHIN THE LEGAL LIMITS and do his
> archaological work.

You're reading way too much into two simple words. A "Travel Permit"
could just give permission to use the Academy's wagons and horses for
a field trip.

> But Cornelius wasn't satisfied with those restrictions, so... AFTER
> he got the Special Permission to travel, he violated the law and went
> out into the Forbidden Zone, mapping it... discovering the poisonous
> nature of the terrain around Dead Lake... learning enough about the
> region to gauge Taylor's later description of it as "accurate"... and
> eventually establishing his "diggings" site at the Cave on the shore
> of the sea downriver.
>
> It was his GOING INTO THE FORBIDDEN ZONE that Zaius refers to, saying
> that "he EXCEEDED HIS ORDERS". Look at Cornelius' map: everything on
> the Left of the dashed line represents the territory where Apes are
> allowed to travel IF THEY HAVE A TRAVEL PERMIT, and everything on the
> Right of the dashed line represents the FORBIDDEN ZONE, where NO ape
> is ever allowed to travel (unless they have to chase after an
> apostate, the way Zaius and his gorilla underlings do).
>
> The Academy did NOT know that Cornelius was going to abuse
> the 'privilege' of his Travel Permit, his "special permission" to
> leave Ape City. Zaius found out that Cornelius had done just that and
> immediately had the permit cancelled. I maintain that Zaius
> discovered Cornelius' violation of the law due to the nature of the
> artifacts that Cornelius must have brought back to Ape City to show
> to him -- the "worthless" artifacts that clued Zaius into the fact
> that Cornelius dug 'em up in the Forbidden Zone. We don't know what
> those artifacts were, but Zaius knew them to be what archaeologists
> call "ooparts": Out-Of-Place-Artifacts... things that aren't supposed
> to be found where they're found, like discovering human skeletal
> remains inside the fossilized remains of a Tyrannosaurus Rex, for
> instance, since the dinosaurs predate the emergence of Homo sapiens
> by well over 50 million years.
>
> I just don't buy the notion that the President of the Academy somehow
> didn't know that Cornelius had been granted the Special Permission to
> travel INTO THE FORBIDDEN ZONE by the very Academy he headed.
> Cornelius doesn't say that he had the Special Permission of Zaius
> (i.e. of just one individual in the Academy). The Academy is a body
> of persons, a group: when Cornelius presented his theory of
> Evolution "Dr. Zaius and half the Academy" said it was heresy.
> Cornelius had to have gotten permission from the GROUP to travel and
> do archaological work, and you can bet that Zaius wouldn't have
> approved him going into the Forbidden Zone to dig for artifacts,
> since Zaius is one of the few -- perhaps, at the time, the ONLY ape --
> who knows that the Forbidden Zone was once inhabited by
> technologically advanced humans, centuries before the Lawgiver
> lived... humans who would have left behind artifacts (Zaius knew that
> the Forbidden Zone had been turned into a desert by Man... that it
> had previously been a 'paradise' in which he must have dwelt).

A president's job is not to oversee every little thing that goes on
in his organisation. He takes care of administrative stuff and
delegates the rest to people like Zaius, who then have the authority
to act on behalf of the Academy.

> As "Guardian of the Terrible Secret", Zaius would have made sure that
> Cornelius' travel permit stated specifically where he would be given
> permission to travel, and for how long. He might never have known
> that Cornelius had broken the law and exceeded his travel permit's
> orders if he had kept the "worthless" artifacts to himself, or at
> least kept them out of the purview of Zaius, who knew 'em to be tell-
> tale evidence that his job is to keep hidden.
>
> Watch the scene again, T. When Cornelius says that Taylor
> has "described the region to us and described it accurately, for... I
> have been there" the pause [represented by the three dots above] is
> him HESITATING to admit this crime. Before this, he can only have
> been SUSPECTED of having visited the Forbidden Zone (based on Zaius
> seeing the artifacts he'd dug up, knowing them to be tell-tale items
> that contradict official 'sacred' history that can ONLY HAVE COME
> FROM THE FORBIDDEN ZONE). Zaius, based on this mere SUSPICION, acted
> promptly to prevent any further harm from being done -- he had
> Cornelius' travel permit cancelled IMMEDIATELY.

Cornelius hesitates to admit that he visited the Forbidden Zone
because he knows it's taboo to most orangutans. If he had committed a
crime, I'm sure Zaius would've done more than cancelling his permit
to travel.

> I think it's likely that Cornelius had brought those artifacts back
> from the Cave to Ape City -- where Zaius saw them, and immediately
> knew them for what they were: evidence not only of the falsity of Ape
> history but of Cornelius' violation of his travel privileges -- so
> that Cornelius was in Ape City when the permit was cancelled. Thus,
> he's been 'trapped' in Ape City ever since. He presented the Academy,
> soon after, with his Evolution theory... and was so roundly attacked
> by the Academy (or, by half of 'em, anyway) that he then cowtowed to
> the Powers that Be and towed the line, apologizing for having
> presented the Theory, admitting that it was 'wrong', etc etc. He does
> a PUBLIC one-eighty, to get back into the good graces of the Academy,
> and of Dr. Zaius, though privately still considering his explosive
> theory to be 'possibly' right (i.e. a "probably wrong" theory can
> be "improbably right" -- it's possible). He hasn't so alienated Zaius
> that he can't hope one day to do another dig somewhere -- for which
> he'll need to get the official support of Zaius, the very one who had
> ordered his last travel permit cancelled.
>
> I don't see Zaius ever trusting Cornelius (as he sure seemed to, in
> the earlier scene, where he gives him the 'friendly warning') on
> another dig if he already has proof positive that Cornelius broke the
> law and traveled into the Forbidden Zone. He SUSPECTS that Cornelius
> had dug up his "worthless" artifacts somewhere in the Forbidden Zone,
> but Cornelius must have denied this vociferously (lying to him,
> claiming to have dug 'em up somewhere in the 'permissible' places his
> Travel Permit allowed him to go and dig).
>
> Cornelius -- at the Tribunal -- puts himself in legal danger when he
> admits for the first time that he indeed HAD visited the Forbidden
> Zone. That's what his PAUSE indicates. He HESITATED to admit to it,
> knowing that there would be legal ramifications for doing so. I think
> that the charge of "malicious mischief" refers to this EARLIER crime.
> Mischief is a DEED, an ACT of some sort that is considered wrong --
> and nothing Cornelius does during "PLANET" constitutes such a thing.
> His insistence that Taylor is a "missing link in an evolutionary
> chain" is the "scientific heresy" charge, and his daring to voice
> that belief constitutes "contempt of this Tribunal". But
> the "malicious mischief" charge, I think, would have to refer to his
> EARLIER crime of "exceeding his orders" -- traveling beyond the legal
> bounds. It's like getting a visa to travel to a foreign country and
> then, after going there, hopping that country's border to go into a
> neighboring country not specified on the visa, perhaps to sample the
> drug market, or to get involved with illegal terrorist activities, or
> some such thing. If you're caught in the country you had permission
> to travel in carrying contraband acquired in the non-permitted
> neighboring country, you can be brought up on charges, and your visa
> confiscated.
>
> Cornelius' "worthless" artifacts were like contraband acquired in an
> illegal locality. Cornelius had to have PRETENDED he dug 'em up
> somewhere in the permissible areas specified in his Travel Permit,
> but Zaius -- on a mere SUSPICION -- didn't take the chance, and had
> the Travel Permit cancelled.
>
> To sum up, I think -- prior to admitting to the Tribunal that he'd
> been in the Forbidden Zone -- that the only people who knew beyond
> any doubt that Cornelius had done so were him, Zira, probably Milo,
> possibly some other like-minded chimp scientists (who had the sense
> to keep quiet about Cornelius' law-breaking, and whom he trusted to
> keep mum about it), and THAT'S IT. Zaius could only SUSPECT that he'd
> broken the law. It isn't until Cornelius PUBLICLY ADMITTED his guilt
> during the Tribunal -- "for... I have been there" -- that Zaius then
> is able to say "Let them talk, Mister President... Let them talk..."
> and later on, Zaius tells Taylor that "in a way, you did the State a
> service, because you made it possible for us to expose Zira and
> Cornelius..."
>
> What else can that line of dialogue mean? Prior to that Tribunal,
> Zaius had NOT found it possible to EXPOSE Zira and
> Cornelius' "heresy" (for which he assures Taylor that, despite being
> out on bail, they WILL be brought to trial for it). But, due to the
> Tribunal centering around Taylor, Zaius finally got what he'd been
> fishing for: the ability to EXPOSE Cornelius and Zira.
>
> CORNELIUS "By your leave, Mister President, this Tribunal has not yet
> defined the PURPOSE for this inquiry."
>
> MAXIMUS "You asked for the opportunity to present your case. Surely
> you must know why you're here."
>
> Maximus is not telling the complete truth here. The President had
> referred to it as "this ad hoc Tribunal of the National Academy". The
> words "ad hoc" mean: "for one particular (usually exclusive) purpose"
> (the Latin words mean "for this"). This isn't the weekly meeting, or
> the monthly meeting, or the yearly meeting, etc. The Tribunal was set
> up to deal with this SPECIFIC circumstance: to find out the 'truth'
> about the talking human. That's the official reason. But the
> underlying reason, from Zaius' perspective, is to USE this ad hoc
> fact-finding proceeding to EXPOSE Cornelius and Zira.
>
> Both Cornelius and Zira have ventured into 'heretical' territory
> (Cornelius both figuratively and literally). Zira had to
> be "cautioned" not to speculate too wildly about Taylor's ability to
> understand, since that leads to the COMPARISON of Human and Simian
> natures. Cornelius' "heresy" -- his theory of Evolution of Simians
> from a lower order of Primate, possibly Man -- was similarly based on
> Ape-and-Man comparisons. What Cornelius theorized based on
> archaological evidence, Zira attempted to do with her Behavioral
> Studies. Both chimp scientists were daring to suggest that
> the 'official' Science, sanctioned by the State, was wrong. And that
> is heresy.
>
> Cornelius had recanted, previously. But Zaius probably suspected that
> the recanting was done half-heartedly -- that Cornelius still
> believed in his heretical theory, and only pretended to accept the
> wisdom of the Academy declaring Evolution to be False.
>
> Zaius wanted to use the Tribunal to expose Zira and Cornelius, and it
> succeeded brilliantly. If not for the circumstances of this Tribunal,
> Cornelius never would have dared to admit that he had violated the
> law and visited the Forbidden Zone -- he naively thought that by
> presenting the evidence (including the illegally-acquired data from
> his archaological work), he might convince the President of the
> Academy that the orthodox views of History were wrong... because he
> had found evidence to contradict it. And, standing right in front of
> them, is Evidence that the Ape orthodoxy can NOT explain away:
> Taylor, the Talking Human! Honorius had to resort to his wild
> accusation that Zira "and a corrupt surgeon named Galen experimented
> on this wounded animal... tampering with his brain and throat
> tissues... to produce a Speaking Monster!" That's the ONLY type of
> way they could hope to explain away Taylor's existence... but Zira
> counters that Taylor has a MIND. Not only can he Speak, but he can
> Think and Reason.
>
> Cornelius (ever proud of his Evolution theory) stubbornly insists
> that Taylor IS the "missing link in an evolutionary chain" that he'd
> previously offered to the Academy as an ALTERNATE way of explaining
> the Past -- as opposed to their 'sacred' history. Cornelius' evidence
> PRE-DATES their Sacred Scrolls -- a "profane" suggestion, even if it
> is true.
>
> I think that Zaius suspected all along that Cornelius would do just
> that: try to ram his 'heretical' theory down the Tribunal's throat,
> using Taylor to support it, AND possibly the other evidence that he'd
> acquired the previous year. Zaius hadn't been able to expose him
> before this, but he successfully watched Cornelius SELF-DESTRUCT.
> Cornelius, the Scientist, couldn't help himself. The EVIDENCE
> demanded a verdict -- and some of that evidence he had acquired
> illegally.
>
> By admitting he had been to the Forbidden Zone, Cornelius played
> right into the hands of Zaius. Zaius couldn't get him to expose his
> own law-breaking any other way; Taylor's case went to the heart of
> his Theory -- that he was a "missing link" that the Academy HAD to
> accept. Earlier, Zira had naively said so ["If the theory's true,
> they'll HAVE to believe it!"]... and Cornelius, prudently, had
> replied, "Oh, no they won't!" In the passion of the moment, Cornelius
> forgot his own earlier wisdom: the State does NOT have to believe his
> heretical theory. They can choose to ignore the evidence and maintain
> the Status Quo.
>
> I don't think I'm gonna be eating any crow this week, T, but if you
> still think your interpretation of the dialogue is right and that I'm
> wrong about this, well, perhaps we can agree to disagree. I think the
> Academy gave Cornelius permission to TRAVEL. But NOT to travel just
> ANYWHERE and EVERYWHERE his whim led him to -- ONLY to places within
> certain legal limits. Cornelius abused his privilege, and ventured
> into the FORBIDDEN area... found some artifacts that didn't fit into
> the Orthodox "church"-sanctioned history, and LED HIM TO FORMULATE
> HIS THEORY OF EVOLUTION. When he showed some of his artifacts to
> Zaius, Zaius knew he had to have dug 'em up in the Forbidden Zone --
> proof enough to him that he had broken the law and traveled into an
> impermissible area. So, Zaius revoked Cornelius' travel privileges.
> He probably accused Cornelius of having traveled into the Forbidden
> Zone, but Cornelius lied to him -- pretending that he'd dug 'em up in
> a legal dig site.
>
> Zaius couldn't prove a 'crime' had happened. So, when the Tribunal
> opportunity arose, he used it to maneuver Cornelius and Zira into
> admitting their heretical views... backing up those views with the
> ILLEGALLY OBTAINED evidence from a year earlier. Zaius used the
> Tribunal to expose them, as he later admits to Taylor, who had made
> it possible.
>
> Patrick Michael Tilton
> EARTH-TIME 12-03-2005

If visiting the Forbidden Zone is such a serious crime, why isn't it
even mentioned at the end of the trial when Cornelius gets the book
thrown at him? Zaius gave permission for Cornelius to go into the
Forbidden Zone, and he knew that Cornelius was looking for artifacts.
He WANTED Cornelius to find enough evidence to get himself indicted
for heresy, so that he could legally be silenced. Suppression of the
Terrible Secret is his only goal. The Forbidden Zone is only
important in that it holds the key to that secret. Without the
Terrible Secret, the Forbidden Zone is just a vast barren desert.
You've got everything mixed up, and you have to invent too many lies
and promises to make it work your way.

> > ------------------------ --------------------
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
<.html
Group: potadg Message: 33374 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
.html
.html.html For the record, there is no such thing as a "tracking horse"... Your theory that the Gorilla's horses were used to track the horses of Cornelius and the group is absolutely out of the question...

And as far as the whole Landon being the victim of a "mercy killing": That whole thing about Landon being stuffed was just made by Dehn. Had Stewart survived the crash, you can be sure the line would have been "Had it not been for Zira here, he would still be here. A stuffed specimen in the Great Hall of the Zaius museum with his three friends..." Dehn was not one for continuity, and it's safe to bet he either didn't know or didn't care about what happened in PLANET, so he created the thing about them both being stuffed. With the whole Taylor scare, it's highly unlikely that they would have had Landon stuffed and displayed as "A Human Who Spoke"... They'd want to cover up ANYTHING having to do with it, so they wouldn't display another creature who "possibly" had intelligence...

And remember, Dehn conveniently forgot about Stewart altogether when he penned ESCAPE... They refer to only three astronauts aboard Taylor's ship, and we all know there were four of them, so that right there proves he didn't do "fact checks"... BTW, how can you unflub the nonexistence of any references to Stewart in BENEATH and ESCAPE?<.html<.html
<.html
Group: potadg Message: 33375 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Special Permission...
.html
.html

OK that’s a good one Cougar!

All these years as a POTA fan and I am still realising there are glaring holes in the script that I missed.

 

Lucky we were all not so analytical when we were kids!  ;)

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 8:05 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Special Permission...

 

For the record, there is no such thing as a "tracking horse"... Your theory that the Gorilla's horses were used to track the horses of Cornelius and the group is absolutely out of the question...

And as far as the whole Landon being the victim of a "mercy killing": That whole thing about Landon being stuffed was just made by Dehn. Had Stewart survived the crash, you can be sure the line would have been "Had it not been for Zira here, he would still be here. A stuffed specimen in the Great Hall of the Zaius museum with his three friends..." Dehn was not one for continuity, and it's safe to bet he either didn't know or didn't care about what happened in PLANET, so he created the thing about them both being stuffed. With the whole Taylor scare, it's highly unlikely that they would have had Landon stuffed and displayed as "A Human Who Spoke"... They'd want to cover up ANYTHING having to do with it, so they wouldn't display another creature who "possibly" had intelligence...

And remember, Dehn conveniently forgot about Stewart altogether when he penned ESCAPE... They refer to only three astronauts aboard Taylor's ship, and we all know there were four of them, so that right there proves he didn't do "fact checks"... BTW, how can you unflub the nonexistence of any references to Stewart in BENEATH and ESCAPE?

<.html
<.html
Group: potadg Message: 33376 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Story
.html
.html

Just out of interest, what other stories are we hoping to see come out of the new MR comics?

 

Do we want to see Milo finding the ship?  Or maybe Zira and Cornelius meeting at college?

 

Ideas?

 

Michael

<.html
<.html
Group: potadg Message: 33377 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Re: Story
.html
.html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 4:42:53 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Just out of interest, what other stories are we hoping to see come out of the new MR comics?


 One I'd like to see (and see it done properly) is the backstory of Landon... What happens to him between the time he's trampled in the hunt up to the time of his lobotomy... What was his confrontation with the apes like...


 Do we want to see Milo finding the ship?  Or maybe Zira and Cornelius meeting at college?

The ship thing would be ok to see, but that's something that "everyone has a theory' on, so it'd be hard to do it correctly I think...

<.html<.html
<.html
Group: potadg Message: 33378 From: Neil T Foster Date: 12/3/2005
Subject: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #31
.html
Attachments :
    .html Message
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33379 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
    .html
    Hello,

    This email message is a notification to let you know that
    a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
    group.

    File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/WPOTA 31.gif
    Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
    Description :

    You can access this file at the URL:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%20of%20the%20Apes/WPOTA%2031.gif

    To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
    http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

    Regards,

    munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33380 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Bases are loaded
    .html
    .html Message

    Well Ty and Joe are on the group – Ty with individual emails and Joe no emails.

     

    Time to give the group 2 Withins and that entire page?  

     

    Michael


    -- <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33381 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Story - LANDON
    .html
    .html

    Cougar, this is something I always wondered – but would you dedicate an entire comic or series to it….or would it more suit a “back story”?

     

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent:     Sunday, 4 December 2005 9:58 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 4:42:53 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:


    Just out of interest, what other stories are we hoping to see come out of the new MR comics?



    One I'd like to see (and see it done properly) is the backstory of Landon... What happens to him between the time he's trampled in the hunt up to the time of his lobotomy... What was his confrontation with the apes like...

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33382 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - LANDON
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:23:13 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     This is something I always wondered – but would you dedicate an entire comic or series to it….or would it more suit a "back story"?

    I figure it would be a one shot deal... Just cover the story over an issue... There couldn't be all that much to tell...    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33383 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    .html

    You know I have seen SO many different stories about Milo finding the ship – I would actually like to see a graphic novel one day that shows 3 or 4 different takes.

     

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent:     Sunday, 4 December 2005 9:58 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story

     

    Do we want to see Milo finding the ship?  Or maybe Zira and Cornelius meeting at college?



    The ship thing would be ok to see, but that's something that "everyone has a theory' on, so it'd be hard to do it correctly I think...
     

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33384 From: Neil Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
    .html
    --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "patrickmichaeltilton"
    <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
    > At first glance, it appears that Cornelius is saying that he received
    > from the Academy the "special permission" to travel into the
    > Forbidden Zone a year earlier in order to do archaeological work.
    > I'm not so sure that that is what this line means.


    -- Sorry Patrick but to me it sounds like that is exactly what it
    means -

    PRESIDENT OF THE ACADEMY "You visited the Forbidden Zone?!"
    CORNELIUS "Yes, sir. Uh, a year ago -- with the special permission of
    the Academy."

    Pretty straightforward I think?
    As for the President of the Academy having no knowledge about such a
    trip I see no reason why Zaius couldn't have pulled a few strings and
    got the travel permits for Cornelius without the President knowing the
    full story. Zaius seems to be the sort of control freak who has
    already kept other stuff secret so why not this? He is running the
    place after all and like most dictators can get away with what he
    wants whilst in control.

    Neil
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33385 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:28:06 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:


     
    You know I have seen SO many different stories about Milo finding the ship – I would actually like to see a graphic novel one day that shows 3 or 4 different takes.

     I like the one they had in the Simian Scrolls issue UP TO the part where they start playing the magnetic discs... Then it gets fuc*ed up... I mean it was stupid having it that those discs contained actual dialog of what happened on Earth while they were in space...
    <.html    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33386 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
    .html
    .html

    Why would a nice “guy” like Zaius keep secrets?!?!?!  ;)

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil
    Sent:     Sunday, 4 December 2005 10:32 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Special Permission...

     

    He is running the place after all and like most dictators can get away with what he
    wants     whilst in control.

    Neil





    --
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33387 From: Neil T Foster Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Hello!
    .html
    .html Message
     
     
     
    To all our recently joined new members - welcome!
     
    Feel free to jump in and contribute if a subject takes your fancy, or please start one up yourself!
     
     
    An original ongoing comic strip called Within t he Planet of the Apes can be found in the files section of the group or you can just click on the handy link on the Home Page to view the latest chapters!
     
    If you want to read Within from the very first episode (and you want to see it in better detail than in the scaled down versions that we have been revisiting daily) you can find all the chapters released so far at the DG Photos group.
     
     
    Just check out the Within the Planet of the Apes folder.
     
    They have been collected as pages in PDF format.
     
    Make sure you also read the new Planet of the Apes  TV Show comic book  - Going H ome!
     
    Go to the Home  Page, scroll down to around the middle of the page and click on the link to take you to the  pages finished so far.
     
    And new for your viewing pleasure - Uncle Manny's Musings! A light hearted look at the world from one of our wisest (Ha!) apes . Check out the Home Page for a link to his latest piece of wisdom! ;-)
     
     
    Don't forget we also have 3 other groups 'attached' to the main one.
     
    First up there is the DG Archives group:
    This group was created to store old posts from the group which have been deleted from the main site. We have to do this periodically to free up space as Yahoo does not allot much space to the groups anymore.
    As this group is so active we tend to fill up very quickly and instead of losing old posts forever we like to keep a copy of them all. They can be found in the Files section listed by month and year.
     
     
    There is also the DG Fan Fiction group where members can place, in th e group's Files section, their Fan Fiction stories, poems etc. to be enjoyed by all:
     
     
    Finally there's the DG Photos group:
    Where photos  and files are occasionally moved to save space on the main DG group
     
     
    All the sites can be easily accessed via the links on each one's Homepage.
     
    Don't forget to check out the DG 's vast Photos section and all that great stuff in the Files section!
     
     
    And w hilst you're here why not participate in a Poll or check out all those
     
    wonderful links and generally have a fun filled family experience!
     
     
    Your Pals The Owners
     
     
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33388 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    .html

    Is that comic available on-line?

     

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 10:33 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story - Milo finding the ship

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:28:06 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:



      You know I have seen SO many different stories about Milo finding the ship – I would actually like to see a graphic novel one day that shows 3 or 4 different takes.


    I like the one they had in the Simian Scrolls issue UP TO the part where they start playing the magnetic discs... Then it gets fuc*ed up... I mean it was stupid having it that those discs contained actual dialog of what happened on Earth while they were in space...

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33389 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    .html

    The discs from the TV Show – they contained the navigational history didn’t they?

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 10:33 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story - Milo finding the ship

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:28:06 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:



      You know I have seen SO many different stories about Milo finding the ship – I would actually like to see a graphic novel one day that shows 3 or 4 different takes.


    I like the one they had in the Simian Scrolls issue UP TO the part where they start playing the magnetic discs... Then it gets fuc*ed up... I mean it was stupid having it that those discs contained actual dialog of what happened on Earth while they were in space...

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33390 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Time....
    .html
    .html

    Hey Cougar – what’s the day and time there? It is 10:43am Sunday here and I have not had any coffee yet……..

     

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent:     Sunday, 4 December 2005 10:33 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story -     Milo finding the ship

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:28:06 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:



      You know I have seen SO many different stories about     Milo finding the ship – I would actually like to see a graphic novel one day that shows 3 or 4 different takes.

    §        
    I like the one they had in the Simian Scrolls issue UP TO the part where they start playing the magnetic discs... Then it gets fuc*ed up... I mean it was stupid having it that those discs contained actual dialog of what happened on Earth while they were in space...

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33391 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:36:26 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     Why would a nice "guy" like Zaius keep secrets?!?!?!  ;)

    Because he's "official science" and what he says goes... If Zaius says it's real, it's real, if not, it's heresy...    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33392 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:41:26 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     The discs from the TV Show – they contained the navigational history didn't they?

    Exactly, they contained the SHIPS history, not the history of Earth... That's why I say it got fuc*ed up... The discs were on board flight records, not human history records...    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33393 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Time....
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:44:58 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     Hey Cougar – what's the day and time there?  It is 10:43am Sunday here and I have not had any coffee yet……..

     

    At this minute, its 5:46 PM...   


    <.html    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33394 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Time....
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:44:58 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     what's the day and time there

    Saturday, 5:46 PM i should have said...    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33395 From: Neil Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
    > Is that comic available on-line?

    -- Not that I know of but his (Mike McColm) other comic is on Kass' TV
    site.

    Neil
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33396 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
    .html
    Hello,

    This email message is a notification to let you know that
    a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
    group.

    File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/Current Chapter/Chapter63.gif
    Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
    Description :

    You can access this file at the URL:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%20of%20the%20Apes/Current%20Chapter/Chapter63.gif

    To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
    http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

    Regards,

    munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33397 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Time....
    .html
    .html

    On Saturday?

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 10:47 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Time....

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:44:58 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:


    Hey Cougar – what’s the day and time there?  It is 10:43am Sunday here and I have not had any coffee yet……..

     

    At this minute, its 5:46 PM...   



    --
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33398 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:53:45 PM Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

    -- Not that I know of but his (Mike McColm) other comic is on Kass' TV
    site.


    That's the guy's name... Yeah, his comic about Milo had me and quickly lost me...

    And the one on Kass' TV show sight, while well drawn, lost me from the get go... With it, he tried tying too much together and ended up with what seemed to be a bunch of hodge podge references to events of the films and TV series that really made no sense "historically"...
    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33399 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    .html

    Burton’s POTA did that……

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 10:58 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Story - Milo finding the ship

     

    he tried tying too much together and ended up with what seemed to be a bunch of hodge podge references to events of the films and TV series that really made no sense "historically"...

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33400 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    .html.html Sad thing is, over on "that other group" there's a guy that says tying the original APES story (stories) to the Burton mess makes perfect sense!




    In a message dated 12/3/2005 6:13:50 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     Burton's POTA did that……

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 10:58 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Story - Milo finding the ship

    he tried tying too much together and ended up with what seemed to be a bunch of hodge podge references to events of the films and TV series that really made no sense "historically"...



    <.html    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33401 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - LANDON
    .html
    .html

    It seems implied that he was lobotomised because he spoke – however I guess he could have been unconscious when he went down and stayed unconscious…..

     

     

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 10:26 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story - LANDON

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:23:13 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:


    This is something I always wondered – but would you dedicate an entire comic or series to it….or would it more suit a “back story”?



    I figure it would be a one shot deal... Just cover the story over an issue.... There couldn't be all that much to tell...

    --
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33402 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: A Question or two to ponder...
    .html
    .html
    In a message dated 12/2/2005 11:37:24 PM Pacific Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:
    In a message dated 12/1/2005 8:10:40 P.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
    Zaius, who had dismissed them as "worthless" -- but there is
    not sufficient evidence to warrant the conclusion that Zaius knew the
    actual location of that Cave site.
     
    That was just Zaius' floccinaucinihilipilification.
    I just had to use that word at least once in my life.
     
    What is the definition of floccinaucinihilipilification? Is it a Texas word? Elaine

    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33403 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Story
    .html
    .html
    In a message dated 12/3/2005 2:42:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

    Just out of interest, what other stories are we hoping to see come out of the new MR comics?

     

    Do we want to see Milo finding the ship?  Or maybe Zira and Cornelius meeting at college?

     

    Ideas?

     

    Michael

    Female gorillas and orangutans. Elaine
     

    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33404 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #31
    .html
    .html Knowing the truth can be fatal. Elaine<.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33405 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
    .html
    .html
    In a message dated 12/3/2005 3:45:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
    In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:36:26 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     Why would a nice "guy" like Zaius keep secrets?!?!?!  ;)

    He will do what he has to do to protect simian society from humans. Elaine
     
    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33406 From: stigbunny Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    We never considered doing a story about Milo finding the ship...much
    like making sausage, it's best not to see how it's done, and Milo
    finding the ship (and getting it to fly) is something I doubt could be
    told convincingly. It's like Cinderella's glass slipper that doesn't
    turn back into straw as THE REST OF THE MAGICAL ITEMS do...it falls
    apart under any level of scrutiny, and so would the story of Milo and
    the ship.

    However, we do have some interesting "untold" apes stories play with...

    Li'l Caesar growing up in Armando's Circus.
    The Lawgiver's first law.
    A visit with the family Colonel Taylor left behind in the past.
    Cornelius, Zira and Zaius continue the archeological dig (In the
    Forbidden Zone) and find something shocking (this story is available
    online at www.mrcomics.ca to read free right now).
    Caesar's Journal entries from the first days of the Revolution.
    Aldo's first word.

    Plus lots more...

    Ty the Guy.
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33407 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Story - Lady apes
    .html
    .html

    Ahhhh ….yes – the great mystery of POTA (where’s all the chicks?)!  ;)

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 12:30 PM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 2:42:54 PM Pacific Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

    Just out of interest, what other stories are we hoping to see come out of the new MR comics?

     

    Do we want to see Milo finding the ship?  Or maybe Zira and Cornelius meeting at college?

     

    Ideas?

     

    Michael

    Female gorillas and orangutans. Elaine


    --
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33408 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html
    In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:50:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, tybunny@... writes:
    We never considered doing a story about Milo finding the ship...much
    like making sausage, it's best not to see how it's done, and Milo
    finding the ship (and getting it to fly) is something I doubt could be
    told convincingly.  It's like Cinderella's glass slipper that doesn't
    turn back into straw as THE REST OF THE MAGICAL ITEMS do...it falls
    apart under any level of scrutiny, and so would the story of Milo and
    the ship.

    However, we do have some interesting "untold" apes stories play with...

    Li'l Caesar growing up in Armando's Circus.
    The Lawgiver's first law.
    A visit with the family Colonel Taylor left behind in the past.
    Cornelius, Zira and Zaius continue the archeological dig (In the
    Forbidden Zone) and find something shocking (this story is available
    online at www.mrcomics.ca to read free right now).
    Caesar's Journal entries from the first days of the Revolution.
    Aldo's first word.

    Plus lots more...

    Ty the Guy.

     All of these are great ideas and I look forward to reading about them. Another storyline
     I am interested in, is the beginning of ape society after the revolt. This would probably involve the Lawgiver's first law. Elaine










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    Group: potadg Message: 33409 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html

    Hi there Ty and welcome.

     

    I know what you mean about Milo finding the ship, but of course POTA is real and there ARE no glass slippers!  ;)

     

    I hope you get a chance to look at the comic strip “Within the Planet of the Apes” that Neil Foster has been drawing – it does sorta TOUCH on a way Milo could have become a spaceship pilot….without answering TOO many questions (or trying to!).  The guy writing WITHIN is a bit of an amateur….but a lovely fellow!

     

    Speaking of Fairy Tales – I saw The Brothers Grimm last night.  I loved it, but I can bet most won’t like it.  I still think Gilliam would do a wonderful POTA movie……

     

    I love the comparison to making sausage – it sure does become less tasty when you analyse the contents too much!

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stigbunny
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 12:49 PM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [PotaDG] Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...

     

    We never considered doing a story about Milo finding the ship...much
    like making sausage, it's best not to see how it's done, and Milo
    finding the ship (and getting it to fly) is something I doubt could be
    told convincingly.  It's like Cinderella's glass slipper that doesn't
    turn back into straw as THE REST OF THE MAGICAL ITEMS do...it falls
    apart under any level of scrutiny, and so would the story of     Milo and
    the ship.


    -- <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33410 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html

    Elaine is one of the few members of the group who likes Burton ’s POTA – aren’t you Elaine?  C’mon Elaine – show us the bruises…  ;)

     

    After the disappointment of that movie, with some of my favourite actors and one of my favourite directors involved, everyone here was VERY nervous about the new MR Comics.  However the general overall consensus is very positive!

     

    Ty – is it just a coincidence that your writers and artists are such big names in comics?

     

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 1:03 PM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:50:00 PM Pacific Standard Time, tybunny@... writes:

    We never considered doing a story about Milo finding the ship...much
    like making sausage, it's best not to see how it's done, and Milo
    finding the ship (and getting it to fly) is something I doubt could be
    told convincingly.  It's like Cinderella's glass slipper that doesn't
    turn back into straw as THE REST OF THE MAGICAL ITEMS do...it falls
    apart under any level of scrutiny, and so would the story of Milo and
    the ship.

    However, we do have some interesting "untold" apes stories play with...

    Li'l Caesar growing up in Armando's Circus.
    The Lawgiver's first law.
    A visit with the family Colonel Taylor left behind in the past.
    Cornelius, Zira and Zaius continue the archeological dig (In the
    Forbidden Zone) and find something shocking (this story is available
    online at www.mrcomics.ca to read free right now).
    Caesar's Journal entries from the first days of the Revolution.
    Aldo's first word.

    Plus lots more...

    Ty the Guy.

     All of these are great ideas and I look forward to reading about them. Another storyline

     I am interested in, is the beginning of ape society after the revolt. This would probably involve the Lawgiver's first law. Elaine


    -- <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33411 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Landon's fate...and other stories
    .html
    .html

    These really do sound absolutely fascinating.

     

    Ty – when you break all sales records next month and continue to do so with the next 5 issues, any guess as to where you might go from there?  I am guessing all the below stories will be in the 6 issue “REVOLUTION”….but I gotta say we are all hoping to see another 600 monthly issues after that – particularly with you and your team being the creative engineers.

     

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of stigbunny
    Sent:     Sunday, 4 December 2005 12:49 PM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [PotaDG]     Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...


    However, we do have some interesting "untold" apes stories play with...

    Li'l Caesar growing up in Armando's Circus.
    The Lawgiver's first law.
    A visit with the family Colonel Taylor left behind in the past.
    Cornelius, Zira and Zaius continue the archeological dig (In the
    Forbidden Zone) and find something shocking (this story is available
    online at www.mrcomics.ca to read free right now).
    Caesar's Journal entries from the first days of the Revolution.
    Aldo's first word.

    Plus lots more...

    Ty the Guy.











    --
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33412 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html
    In a message dated 12/3/2005 6:16:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

    Elaine is one of the few members of the group who likes Burton 's POTA – aren't you Elaine?  C'mon Elaine – show us the bruises…   ;)

     

    After the disappointment of that movie, with some of my favourite actors and one of my favourite directors involved, everyone here was VERY nervous about the new MR Comics.  However the general overall consensus is very positive!

     

    Ty – is it just a coincidence that your writers and artists are such big names in comics?

     

    Michael

     I am not sure what you are asking, Michael. I enjoyed Burton's pota but do not see it in the same universe as the original and do not feel it is as good as the original. I have no doubt that Ty could write an excellent comic and probably have better character development than the movie. Elaine

    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33413 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html

    Indeed.

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 1:22 PM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 6:16:22 PM Pacific Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

    Elaine is one of the few members of the group who likes Burton ’s POTA – aren’t you Elaine?  C’mon Elaine – show us the bruises…  ;)

     

    After the disappointment of that movie, with some of my favourite actors and one of my favourite directors involved, everyone here was VERY nervous about the new MR Comics.  However the general overall consensus is very positive!

     

    Ty – is it just a coincidence that your writers and artists are such big names in comics?

     

    Michael

    I am not sure what you are asking, Michael. I enjoyed Burton's pota but do not see it in the same universe as the original and do not feel it is as good as the original. I have no doubt that Ty could write an excellent comic and probably have better character development than the movie. Elaine

     


    -- <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33414 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    .html

    Well I know Ty Templeton began to write a story that includes a character from Burton ’s POTA (Thade).

     

    Not something I would really be too enthusiastic about – however I do believe if anyone in comics could make it work, he could do it.

     

    Ty – I believe this story got to the rough pencils stage is that right?  Would there be any way you could share some of these pages?

     

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 11:17 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story - Milo finding the ship

     

    Sad thing is, over on "that other group" there's a guy that says tying the original APES story (stories) to the Burton mess makes perfect sense!




    In a message dated 12/3/2005 6:13:50 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:


    Burton's POTA did that……

     
     

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33415 From: John Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG
    .html
    Milo seems to have gained his composure quite quickly. Did he have a
    couple of drinks during an unshared panel? Head first into the
    unknown all in the name of science.







    --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
    >
    >
    > Hello,
    >
    > This email message is a notification to let you know that
    > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
    > group.
    >
    > File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/Current
    Chapter/Chapter63.gif
    > Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@h...>
    > Description :
    >
    > You can access this file at the URL:
    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%
    20of%20the%20Apes/Current%20Chapter/Chapter63.gif
    >
    > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
    > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > munkeyman63au <nfoster@h...>
    >
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33416 From: John Date: 12/3/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    > Caesar's Journal entries from the first days of the Revolution.
    > Aldo's first word.
    >
    I am really excited about these.
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33417 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - LANDON
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:05:35 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:


           
    It seems implied that he was lobotomised because he spoke – however I guess he could have been unconscious when he went down and stayed unconscious…..

     




    Exactly... He was lobotomised because he spoke... It's that story I'd like to see explored... What happened when he first spoke? Was he in a cart with other humans and started to speak, only to be seperated out and brought before the autorities... There's a story there, but I meant I just don't see it going beyond a single issue of the comic...    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33418 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:50:00 PM Central Standard Time, tybunny@... writes:

    A visit with the family Colonel Taylor left behind in the past.


    This is absolutely ridiculous... He had no family... As Landon said to him "You despise people" so he wouldn't be a "family man"... He is a misanthrope all the way, and doesn't change any of that until he unwhittingly becomes the "defender of mankind"...

    There are no young Taylors out there that are his children, anyone with any sense of what he was can tell that... He had NOTHING to hold him there on Earth, he says that himself...

    A family in the past... Your imagination is running wild... Way TOO wild... So unless you mean his father and mother (or any siblings he may have had) do yourself a favor, forget the Taylor family idea... You'd be trying to reinvent the wheel if you'd attempt that!
    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33419 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:50:00 PM Central Standard Time, tybunny@... writes:

    Milo finding the ship (and getting it to fly) is something I doubt could be
    told convincingly.  It's like Cinderella's glass slipper that doesn't
    turn back into straw as THE REST OF THE MAGICAL ITEMS do...it falls
    apart under any level of scrutiny, and so would the story of Milo and
    the ship.


    That's absolutely right... There is no good way to explain it, and it might just be best if it was left alone...
    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33420 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:50:00 PM Central Standard Time, tybunny@... writes:

    Aldo's first word.


    Which Aldo are we talking about here? If you mean the one from the original timeline, Cornelius says what Apes history documented as his first word... The word: No...
    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33421 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:50:00 PM Central Standard Time, tybunny@... writes:

    Caesar's Journal entries from the first days of the Revolution.


    He'd be to busy fighting off the authorities and getting his rebel apes to safety to even worry about keeping a journal... Don't go turning this into an all new set of ADVENTURE comics now...
    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33422 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 8:16:22 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     After the disappointment of that movie, with some of my favourite actors and one of my favourite directors involved, everyone here was VERY nervous about the new MR Comics.

    I'm starting to feel a bit "nervous" again after reading some of the ideas... Sounds like 1990 and ADVENTURE all over again... I hope I'm wrong, but I can't say I'd be surprised if it turns that way...    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33423 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Lady apes
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:58:32 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     Ahhhh….yes – the great mystery of POTA (where's all the chicks?)! 

    We covered that already and pretty much deduced that the Gorilla and Orangutan females live the same lifestyle of women from the Far East... "At home, barefoot and pregnant"    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33424 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/2005 8:42:01 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     Well I know Ty Templeton began to write a story that includes a character from Burton's POTA (Thade).

    And it's hearing this type of rhetoric that makes me feel it may fall out of the APES tree and start in it's own forest of craziness...    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33425 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Lady apes
    .html
    .html
    In a message dated 12/4/2005 4:08:16 A.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
    We covered that already and pretty much deduced that the Gorilla and Orangutan females live the same lifestyle of women from the Far East... "At home, barefoot and pregnant"
     
    Try and find one like that these days.
    She'll tell you to go F*** yourself.
     
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33426 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
    .html
    .html
    In a message dated 12/3/2005 3:41:29 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
    BTW, how can you unflub the nonexistence of any references to Stewart in BENEATH and ESCAPE?
     
    Because she was the Mother of the Ship!
     
    Sorry Pat!  I just had to throw that one in.
     
     
    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33427 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html

    Hey Cougar he MUST have had a MOTHER! 

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 8:51 PM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:50:00 PM Central Standard Time, tybunny@... writes:


    A visit with the family Colonel Taylor left behind in the past.



    This is absolutely ridiculous... He had no family... As Landon said to him "You despise people" so he wouldn't be a "family man"... He is a misanthrope all the way, and doesn't change any of that until he unwhittingly becomes the "defender of mankind"...

    There are no young Taylors out there that are his children, anyone with any sense of what he was can tell that... He had NOTHING to hold him there on Earth, he says that himself...

    A family in the past... Your imagination is running wild... Way TOO wild... So unless you mean his father and mother (or any siblings he may have had) do yourself a favor, forget the Taylor family idea... You'd be trying to reinvent the wheel if you'd attempt that!

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    Group: potadg Message: 33428 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
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    In a message dated 12/3/2005 4:35:57 P.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:
    BTW, how can you unflub the nonexistence of any references to Stewart in BENEATH and ESCAPE?
     
    If you'll remember exactly what Stewart was on that ship for, I' think it's clear why she wasn't mentioned.   Planet was pretty Adult film, made for Adults.  I still contend it's the only G rated movie in history was bare-assed scenes in it.  It seems to me as they went on they kept trying to make them more of a Saturday Matinee Kids Serial than serious Sci-fi.  Though how they were going to do that while blowing up entire planets and murdering main characters I don't know.   Pretty advance for it's like.  Like Johnny Quest and Speed Racer.  The only cartoons in the 60's & 70's where people actually got killed.
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    Group: potadg Message: 33429 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Story
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    In a message dated 12/3/2005 4:42:53 P.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:
    Do we want to see Milo finding the ship?  Or maybe Zira and Cornelius meeting at college?
     
    Both!
     
     
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    Group: potadg Message: 33430 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: A Question or two to ponder...
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    In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:13:45 P.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:
    What is the definition of floccinaucinihilipilification?
     
    There's a commercial where there's a Spelling Bee with that word.
    So, I looked it up.  It's the act of judging something to be worthless.
    I had to use dictionary.com to find it.  My dictionary is so out of date
    it didn't have it.  It did have a similar word though that involves people
    delirious with fevers picking lent off the bedclothes.  floccillation.
     
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    Group: potadg Message: 33431 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #31
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    In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:33:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:
    Knowing the truth can be fatal.
     
    More often then not,
    not knowing the truth can be fatal.
     
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    Group: potadg Message: 33432 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
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    In a message dated 12/3/2005 8:11:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:
    I love the comparison to making sausage – it sure does become less tasty when you analyse the contents too much!
     
    Like that old saying . . . There are two thing you should never look into
     
    the making of . . . Sausage & Law.
     
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    Group: potadg Message: 33433 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
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    In a message dated 12/4/2005 3:51:54 A.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
    A family in the past... Your imagination is running wild...
     
    I kind of see Taylor as the captain of the football team at an orphanage.
    That's why he like's riding Landon about being The Golden Boy of the
    Class of '72.  He's been there, done that, and found it a hollow victory.
     
     
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    Group: potadg Message: 33434 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: A Question or two to ponder...
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    That makes you go blind – CAREFUL!

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
    Sent:     Sunday, 4 December 2005 10:08 PM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: A Question or two to ponder...

     

    floccillation.


    -- <.html
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    Group: potadg Message: 33435 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
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    Well I can certainly see that he might have had a failed relationship that turned him.

     

    Cougar, you really need to see something before you can say!

     

    And being polite would be nice too – hey if LordTZero and I can be polite…the anyone can!

     

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 10:24 PM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...

     

    In a message dated 12/4/2005 3:51:54 A.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

    A family in the past... Your imagination is running wild...

     

    I kind of see Taylor as the captain of the football team at an orphanage.

    That's why he like's riding Landon about being The Golden Boy of the

    Class of '72.  He's been there, done that, and found it a hollow victory.

     


    -- <.html
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    Group: potadg Message: 33436 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
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    Oh come on Cougar!

     

    This isn’t “all Adventure”.

     

    Adventure told (mainly) crappy stories about apes we did not know.

     

    This is an ape we DO know.

     

    As rigidly as I believe in the non-circular timeline, I just absolutely love the way Ty wrote his back-story where Cornelius and Zira dig up a magazine that features them on the cover.  It is so well written I just enjoy the moment.

     

    The comics I have seen absolutely kick “Adventure” comics’ ass!

    Michael

     

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent:     Sunday, 4 December 2005 8:54 PM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG]     Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:50:00 PM Central Standard Time, tybunny@... writes:


    Caesar's Journal entries from the first days of the Revolution.



    He'd be to busy fighting off the authorities and getting his rebel apes to safety to even worry about keeping a journal... Don't go turning this into an all new set of ADVENTURE comics now...

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    Group: potadg Message: 33437 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: ....is it all one big infinite loop?
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    I think it is clear that Ty and Joe see the saga as “circular” – ie Battle leads to Planet and Beneath then starts all over again ad infinitum.

     

    This is what I believed until I joined this group and saw all the evidence otherwise.  But there ARE strong arguments for both, and while I choose to believe that ESCAPE begins a whole new POTA (and the history referred to by Cornelius in Escape and in the Cave are now altered), I can’t impose that on others.

     

    And why isn’t there room for both takes?

     

    The main reason I am so sold on a new timeline being started by ESCAPE is that I want to see someone tell the story of the ape revolt in 2500 or so (is that right).  I had plotted out a story but when I recently saw “THE ISLAND” I realised my story was too close to that (but with APES, not PEOPLE being farmed for body parts through genetic manipulation).

     

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 8:56 PM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:50:00 PM Central Standard Time, tybunny@... writes:


    Aldo's first word.



    Which Aldo are we talking about here? If you mean the one from the original timeline, Cornelius says what Apes history documented as his first word... The word: No...

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    Group: potadg Message: 33438 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
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    Well you usually trust my judgement Mike and I can tell you there’s NOTHING to be nervous about.

     

    This comic will kick ass and I think it has enough appeal to get some new fans on board.

     

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 9:00 PM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 8:16:22 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:


    After the disappointment of that movie, with some of my favourite actors and one of my favourite directors involved, everyone here was VERY nervous about the new MR Comics.



    I'm starting to feel a bit "nervous" again after reading some of the ideas... Sounds like 1990 and ADVENTURE all over again... I hope I'm wrong, but I can't say I'd be surprised if it turns that way...

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    Group: potadg Message: 33439 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
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    It’s called CREATIVITY Cougar!

     

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 9:02 PM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story - Milo finding the ship

     

    In a message dated 12/3/2005 8:42:01 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:


    Well I know Ty Templeton began to write a story that includes a character from Burton’s POTA (Thade).



    And it's hearing this type of rhetoric that makes me feel it may fall out of the APES tree and start in it's own forest of craziness...

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    Group: potadg Message: 33440 From: LordTZer0@AOL.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
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    In a message dated 12/4/2005 6:14:14 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:
    hey if LordTZero and I can be polite…the anyone can!
     
    Now that's just plain untrue.
     
     
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    Group: potadg Message: 33441 From: nlmoxham Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
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    --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
    >

    The story of Milo is online at Chris Sheils' Ansanaut site...

    http://www.goingfaster.com/icarus/mccolmrider.htm



    > Is that comic available on-line?
    >
    > Michael
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
    Behalf
    > Of mlccougar@a...
    > Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 10:33 AM
    > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story - Milo finding the ship
    >
    > In a message dated 12/3/2005 5:28:06 PM Central Standard Time,
    > whitty@c... writes:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > You know I have seen SO many different stories about Milo
    finding the
    > ship - I would actually like to see a graphic novel one day that
    shows 3
    > or 4 different takes.
    >
    > I like the one they had in the Simian Scrolls issue UP TO the part
    where
    > they start playing the magnetic discs... Then it gets fuc*ed up...
    I
    > mean it was stupid having it that those discs contained actual
    dialog of
    > what happened on Earth while they were in space...
    >
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    Group: potadg Message: 33442 From: stigbunny Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
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    --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
    >
    > Oh come on Cougar!
    >
    > This isn't "all Adventure".
    >
    > Adventure told (mainly) crappy stories about apes we did not know.
    >
    > This is an ape we DO know.
    >
    > As rigidly as I believe in the non-circular timeline, I just absolutely
    > love the way Ty wrote his back-story where Cornelius and Zira dig up a
    > magazine that features them on the cover. It is so well written I just
    > enjoy the moment.
    >
    > The comics I have seen absolutely kick "Adventure" comics' ass!
    >
    >
    > Michael
    >
    >
    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
    > Of mlccougar@a...
    > Sent: Sunday, 4 December 2005 8:54 PM
    > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    > Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    >
    > In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:50:00 PM Central Standard Time,
    > tybunny@g... writes:
    >
    >
    >
    > Caesar's Journal entries from the first days of the Revolution.
    >
    >
    > He'd be to busy fighting off the authorities and getting his rebel
    apes to safety...


    Okay, that's one version of what happens in the beginning of the
    Revolution.

    The Journal Entries (we're doing a couple of them)are being done for
    TWO big reasons.

    1) Media is an important aspect of our story. As well as the
    Caesar's Journal entries, we're doing some TV broadcasts, some
    blogging, a magazine article, film clips...myriad glimpses of the
    media of this world of Boulle, Serling and Dehn. Caesar's journal
    entries struck me as the only "ape based" media directly tied to our
    story so Joe and I tossed some ideas around and came up with, what we
    think, is one of the more interesting features of the series.

    2) From an editorial and narrative point of view, they give
    background info we need to tell, that is awkward to insert into
    dialogue.

    But don't worry, the Journals are written as a battlefield memoir by
    someone who knows his place in history is nearly sacred, and wants to
    record whatever thoughts and observations he can for the ages. In the
    first entry, he bluntly states that he expects to be killed at any
    moment, and begins to doubt his own sanity that he is still alive.

    And he has an opportunity to write them because of a the strange
    "lull" in the fighting. For some reason, the armies of man are NOT
    attacking the city, and NOT fighting Caesar's apes. They've given the
    city up...left a number of the human citizens to die at the hands of
    angry gorillas.

    Why would the US government do that? And where is the army and
    national guard?

    These are the first questions Caesar writes in his journal. And
    you'll get the answers somewhere around issue #4, though we drop a
    couple of big hints in the first issue already.

    NOW...

    Onto the subject of whether or not time is circular in the Planet of
    the Apes. Our version lives with the story that's laid out in the
    first five movies. I'd rather not treat sloppy writing on Dehn's part
    as hints of a parallel world story. They were clearly trying to
    create a circular storyline, and just didn't tidy up all the plot
    holes involved in that. Amusingly enough, some of those plot holes DO
    end up being touched upon in our story, since they're fun to play
    with, but yes, as the original authors intended, the world of Zira,
    Zaius and Cornelius, lies in the distant future from the world of
    Caesar, Lisa and Aldo, inconsistencies aside.

    Both Joe and myself are quite conversant on the parallel worlds theory
    that is presented in Battle, however, and there's some wiggle room and
    ambiguity in our script featuring precisely that. The time travel
    aspect of the Apes (present in four out of six of the Apes movies) is
    integral to our story as well.

    Ty the Guy.
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    Group: potadg Message: 33443 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
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    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/05 6:32:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:


    Pretty straightforward I think?
    As for the President of the Academy having no knowledge about such a
    trip I see no reason why Zaius couldn't have pulled a few strings and
    got the travel permits for Cornelius without the President knowing the
    full story. Zaius seems to be the sort of control freak who has
    already kept other stuff secret so why not this? He is running the
    place after all and like most dictators can get away with what he
    wants whilst in control.

    Neil


    I surprised Patrick hasn't come up with one of his own "theories" that Zaius allowed Cornelius to explore parts of the Forbidden Zone on purpose in order to increase his own knowledge of the area.  I wouldn't put anything past Zaius, including doing things behind the back of the President.  Besides, we don't know the true nature of the "President of the Academy."  Maybe it was only a ceremonial position and it was only Zaius that actually administered the day to day running of the Academy.

    Anyway, this argument has made me realize something I'd never thought about before -- that apes needed travel permits to get from here to there.  That would be necessary in order to keep individuals from knowing too much about the true nature of their society or sharing ideas with other apes, and it just goes to show what a conservative, right-wing nightmare the ape society degenerates into after the reign of Caesar.

    -- Rory    <.html     <.html
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    Group: potadg Message: 33444 From: Haristas@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - LANDON
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    .html.html In a message dated 12/3/05 8:05:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:


    It seems implied that he was lobotomised because he spoke – however I guess he could have been unconscious when he went down and stayed unconscious…..



    I've always thought that when Landon was brought into the lab after the hunt that he must have awoken on the table and said something, perhaps in Zaius' presence and that that got him immediately lobotomized.  All those apes present that heard him talk must have been sworn to silence or transferred someplace.

    I would also assume the Landon was gelded at the same time as his lobotomy in order to keep him from mating.

    If he wasn't it opens up the possibility of an "alternative" sequel to PLANET that ignores -- which I'd be ALL for! -- the terrible events of BENEATH.  You could call it "The seeds of Landon on the Planet of the Apes."

    -- Rory    <.html     <.html
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    Group: potadg Message: 33445 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
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    --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
    >
    > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
    > <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
    > > At first glance, it appears that Cornelius is saying that he
    received from the Academy the "special permission" to travel into the
    Forbidden Zone a year earlier in order to do archaeological work. I'm
    not so sure that that is what this line means.
    >
    >
    > -- Sorry Patrick but to me it sounds like that is exactly what it
    means -
    >
    PRESIDENT OF THE ACADEMY "You visited the Forbidden Zone?!"
    CORNELIUS "Yes, sir. Uh, a year ago -- with the special permission of
    the Academy."
    >
    > Pretty straightforward I think?
    > As for the President of the Academy having no knowledge about such
    a trip I see no reason why Zaius couldn't have pulled a few strings
    and got the travel permits for Cornelius without the President
    knowing the full story. Zaius seems to be the sort of control freak
    who has already kept other stuff secret so why not this? He is
    running the place after all and like most dictators can get away with
    what he wants whilst in control.
    >
    > Neil

    *** Sorry Neil, but I don't buy it. I just don't see Zaius -- of ALL
    apes -- ever granting ANY ape permission to travel into the Forbidden
    Zone. If any ape had ever gotten permission beforehand and done any
    fact-finding there, there would always be the possibility of the
    Terrible Secret getting out -- which Zaius is guarding against.

    You quote the PRESIDENT OF THE ACADEMY and CORNELIUS above, but you
    neglect the very next line, when ZAIUS says "He EXCEEDED HIS ORDERS.
    His travel permit was cancelled immediately."

    What does he mean by "exceeded his orders"? Did he allow Cornelius to
    travel into the Forbidden Zone, but not TOO FAR into it? What the
    hell does this line mean?

    I think it means that Cornelius had gotten his Travel Permit with the
    implicit (if not explicit) understanding that he be allowed to travel
    ONLY IN LEGALLY PERMISSIBLE LOCALITIES -- i.e. to any site on the
    LEFT SIDE of that dashed line on his Map. He was NOT given permission
    to go into the Forbidden Zone. Maybe the Travel Permit didn't
    explicitly state "The Ape in possession of this Travel Permit will
    not be at liberty to travel into the Forbidden Zone" -- but for the
    vast majority of Apes it would be UNTHINKABLE for anyone to go there,
    EXCEPT FOR APOSTATES. "Only an APOSTATE would flee to the Forbidden
    Zone" Zaius says. People who harbor heretical notions and fear the
    retribution of the zealots in charge of the government would have
    little choice but to flee into the Forbidden Zone, since it's the ONE
    PLACE where they might be confident that the Authorities would fear
    to follow them.

    Cornelius got permission to TRAVEL. It was a "travel permit" --
    evidently, Apes need to get such passport-like items if they wish to
    go anywhere. The gorillas who went on the Hunt -- THEY probably had
    to get Travel Permits in order to go to the Hunt zone, just as
    hunters in our time have to get a hunting license and, at times,
    permission in writing to hunt on land owned by other people.

    Cornelius was NOT given permission to travel into a FORBIDDEN place.
    It was 'understood' that no Ape would ever go there -- the
    authorities never thought they needed to put it in writing [on their
    Travel Permits, or the paperwork accompanying them], since their
    THEOCRATIC government had already declared the Zone to be FORBIDDEN.
    Cornelius, when he says he got "the special permission from the
    Academy" to travel, may have been implying that since the Travel
    Permit didn't explicitly state he COULD NOT go into the Forbidden
    Zone -- that he could travel anywhere he wanted, EVEN INTO the
    Forbidden Zone -- he tried to argue that he hadn't violated the terms
    of the permit.

    But Zaius says he EXCEEDED HIS ORDERS. In other words, even if the
    Travel Permit didn't explicitly state No-Going-To-The-Forbidden-Zone,
    the ecclesiastical laws of Apedom prevent the abuse of
    the 'privilege' afforded by the permit.

    Cornelius had to get permission to travel in order to go to any site
    within the permissible boundaries of Apedom. But NOT to exceed those
    boundaries. Zaius cancelled the permit because, he claimed, Cornelius
    had done just that -- he'd gone where no ape is allowed to go.

    He couldn't PROVE it, though. He had the authority to cancel
    Cornelius' travel privileges, on his SUSPICION of a violation, but he
    didn't have enough to nail him in a court of law.

    Why would Cornelius pause before saying "... for I have been there"?
    The ONLY reason he pauses is because he KNOWS that he's admitting
    publicly to having violated the sacred taboo and traveled into a
    place where apes are FORBIDDEN to go.

    Jeezus, it's called THE FORBIDDEN ZONE!!! Zaius would never trust a
    chimpanzee archaologist to go into it and do some digging; Zira tells
    Dr. Galen, "You know how he [Zaius] LOOKS DOWN HIS NOSE ON
    CHIMPANZEES..."

    Look at how cowed Zira and Cornelius are when Zaius and Maximus
    interrupt their Q&A with Taylor. The Ape society has all sorts of
    rules that are enforced -- and Zira had violated one of those rules,
    having Taylor out of the Compound and WITHOUT A LEASH. The rules are
    stifling to the creative, scientific minds of the chimpanzees, which
    is why Cornelius went out of his way to PRETEND to play-by-the-
    rules... going through the hoops to get a Travel Permit and all that,
    just so that he could seize the opportunity to BREAK THE RULES and go
    where he KNEW he wasn't allowed to go, but where he must have
    suspected there was something to be found.

    We POTA fans need to argue about this more. The meanings of these
    respective lines of dialogue shouldn't be so confusing that we can't
    come to a consensus. Taken out-of-context, it might appear to suggest
    that Cornelius sought permission to dig in the Forbidden Zone and
    petitioned the Academy to grant him the permission to do so, and that
    he then DID travel there and start digging, etc etc etc. But the
    context also includes Zaius line, that Cornelius had "exceeded his
    orders" prompting him to cancel the Travel Permit immediately.

    I just can't see there being a 'portion' of the Forbidden Zone that
    is opened up for archaological work in which Cornelius would be
    allowed to dig. Zaius has the power to prevent any ape from LEGALLY
    going into the Zone, and it is completely against his character to
    allow any ape -- especially a chimpanzee -- to have access to that
    area where HE KNOWS there once was a higher civilization of humans.

    It all goes back to what Zaius is afraid of. He's afraid of ONE
    THING: the resurrection of the destructive force that is embodied by
    human intelligence -- "Man is evil, capable of nothing but
    destruction!" He has Landon lobotomized because of this fear. He
    wants Taylor gelded, to prevent him from breeding other talking (and
    intelligent) humans. He blows up the Cave, so that KNOWLEDGE will
    STAND STILL. The LAST thing he would ever do is grant permission for
    a chimpanzee scientist to do archaeological work in the Forbidden
    Zone. Zaius is the one ape we know of who "knew it all along". He had
    nothing to gain and everything to lose if any untoward discoveries
    were made in the Zone and exposed to the public.

    Patrick

    P.S. Think of the Travel Permit as being like a ticket to go on a
    tour of the White House. There are places in the White House that are
    open to the public, when they lead tours through it. But if somebody
    who HAS a ticket to go on the White House tour sneaks off to try to
    snoop around outside the bounds of the tour-route, he's "exceeding
    his orders". He can claim, "Hey, I have a ticket to tour the White
    House... why can't I see what's in that room over there?" but it
    won't wash. His tour privileges will not only be revoked, but he'll
    probably be cavity searched by Secret Service agents!
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33446 From: patrickmichaeltilton Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
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    --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:
    >
    > For the record, there is no such thing as a "tracking horse"...
    Your theory that the Gorilla's horses were used to track the horses
    of Cornelius and the group is absolutely out of the question...

    *** No it ain't. Horses have biiiig nostrils and higher olfactory
    sensibilities than we Humans do. When mares are in heat, male horses
    can smell the pheremones, etc. Since there are no dogs in Apedom for
    the Apes to use for scent-tracking, they would have the option of
    using horses for that very task. Just because WE don't use horses
    that way doesn't mean that Apes in the fictional world of POTA
    wouldn't think to use 'em for it. We have dogs -- we don't NEED any
    other animal to do scent-tracking for us (say, to find a kidnapped
    child, that sort of thing). Without dogs to utilize for scent-
    tracking, the Apes -- if they ever felt the need to do it -- would
    have few options. They have horses, and (in the TV show) cows and
    bulls. Why not horses?
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > And as far as the whole Landon being the victim of a "mercy
    killing": That whole thing about Landon being stuffed was just made
    by Dehn. Had Stewart survived the crash, you can be sure the line
    would have been "Had it not been for Zira here, he would still be
    here. A stuffed specimen in the Great Hall of the Zaius museum with
    his three friends..." Dehn was not one for continuity, and it's safe
    to bet he either didn't know or didn't care about what happened in
    PLANET, so he created the thing about them both being stuffed. With
    the whole Taylor scare, it's highly unlikely that they would have had
    Landon stuffed and displayed as "A Human Who Spoke"... They'd want to
    cover up ANYTHING having to do with it, so they wouldn't display
    another creature who "possibly" had intelligence...

    *** Irrelevant. Stewart DIDN'T survive the crash, so Dehn's line is
    right not to include "three friends" and sticks with just two. And
    nowhere in "BENEATH" (or "PLANET" for that matter) is there any sign
    accompanying the Museum display ["A Human Who Spoke"]. Dodge was put
    in the Museum with no reference to him being capable of speech or
    being intelligent -- he was just another human animal amongst a
    plethora of exhibits featuring Humans-in-the-wild. Adding Landon to
    it would be no big deal -- and nobody other than Taylor, Zaius, and
    whomever else SECRETLY knew that Landon had been able to talk would
    ever know that this stuffed human was 'special' in any way.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > And remember, Dehn conveniently forgot about Stewart altogether
    when he penned ESCAPE... They refer to only three astronauts aboard
    Taylor's ship, and we all know there were four of them, so that right
    there proves he didn't do "fact checks"... BTW, how can you unflub
    the nonexistence of any references to Stewart in BENEATH and ESCAPE?

    *** NONE of the astronauts are referenced in "ESCAPE". The President
    refers to the three APE-ONAUTS who splashed down the day before,
    mentioning that one of the three had been killed at the zoo. He's
    talking about the three apes, NOT about any of Taylor's crew.

    The 'nonexistence of references' to any of the other ANSA astronauts
    can be summed up in a number of ways.

    1) The Commissioners didn't think to ask specifically about them
    because what the talking chimps WERE telling them got them so
    intrigued and side-stepped that they didn't get the chance in that
    rather short publicly-attended meeting of the Commission. When ONE
    question is fired at them -- "Did you know a Colonel Taylor?" --
    Cornelius LIES to them: "No... is he a soldier?" Thus, they aren't
    asked any FURTHER questions about Dodge, Landon, Stewart, etc. For
    the moment, the Commissioners are taking them at their word.

    2) The Commissioners do not have all the facts regarding the ANSA
    missions that were sent out. The President tells the Joint Chiefs (et
    al.) that the ship that landed had been "missing in space". The BBC
    news anchor says that the two ships had been "believed until now to
    have DISINTEGRATED IN ORBIT". Bill Bonds references the TALKING apes
    as being the biggest story since the MOON LANDING. Yet ANSA had sent
    out spaceships capable of INTERSTELLAR FLIGHT. We know that Taylor's
    ship -- 6 months of SHIP-TIME into its journey, in the EARTH-TIME
    year 2673 -- had been put into "the hands of the computers" which
    would get it the rest of the way to their destination, 320 lightyears
    away from Earth on an unnamed planet in orbit around a star in the
    constellation Orion. ANSA and Taylor knew that his ship (at least)
    was not "missing in space". They knew it hadn't "disintegrated in
    orbit". It was working fine, some 700 years in the Future! But what
    ANSA knew and what the President and the Public knew are, it seems,
    THREE DIFFERENT THINGS. The public has been fed disinformation --
    that two of the ships were sent up and, since they didn't return to
    Earth in the 'usual' timeframe, they must have 'disintegrated in
    orbit'... which is a LIE. And the President, too, seems to have been
    lied to by ANSA -- they inform him that the ships are "missing in
    space". Yet ANSA knows that those ships are en route to their
    respective destinations, LIGHTYEARS away. The public thinks that the
    Moon Landing [by NASA] is a big story -- they don't have a clue that
    there's a different space agency [ANSA] which has sent out spaceships
    that can go to other star systems!

    So... how much do these Commissioners know? Are they as much in-the-
    dark as the Public and as the President? Do they know what questions
    to ask?

    Of all of them, it's probable that Hasslein knows what questions to
    ask... but he seems to have better background for it than the
    President he serves. As the one whose theories of Time underlie the
    ANSA chronometers (at near-lightspeed, etc), he probably knows all
    sorts of things about the ANSA program that not even the President
    knows. Perhaps that's why HE responds to Zira's statement -- "We came
    from your Future!" -- with the knowledge that her statement is the
    ONLY explanation that makes sense. He, unlike the other
    Commissioners, knows that the ANSA ships were intended to fly to
    other stars and arrive at their destinations years... even CENTURIES
    later, with their astronaut crews having aged only months, due to
    Time Dilation effects. The Chairman of the Commission is probably
    unaware that the ships could do that, at least during the time when
    they're questioning the Ape-onauts -- that's why he replies to Zira's
    statement: "That doesn't make any sense!"

    3) The questioning of Zira while she was under the effects of sodium
    pentothal was of limited time duration. They asked her all sorts of
    questions that elicited responses that Hasslein deemed sufficiently
    damning and supportive of his recommendations to the Commission, and
    Hasslein conceded to Dixon's concern for Zira's health: "She should
    have a rest now..." -- "She'll get it" etc.

    If Zira and Cornelius hadn't killed their Orderly and escaped, it's
    most probable that they would've been interrogated some more, and
    THEN they'd be asked more specific questions about Taylor, AND about
    his crew... but the Commission never gets the chance.

    Patrick
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33447 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/4/2005 4:57:09 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     he MUST have had a MOTHER! 

    If you read my post, you'll see I did say: "     So unless you mean his father and mother (or any siblings he may have had) do yourself a favor, forget the Taylor family idea..."

    I didn't forget his parents, but I have no doubt that what MR comics would be planning would involve a Mrs. George Taylor and brood...     <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33448 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/4/2005 6:29:44 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     This isn't "all Adventure".

    Adventure told (mainly) crappy stories about apes we did not know.

    This is an apes we DO know.

    Well, with apes we "do know" it's worse to create all these bizarre scenarios. At least with "unknown apes" there's no history there and you're free to create a history for them, a history that will not go against what has been established. That's not to say that an all new backstory might not be good, but I'm saying that with new stories on established figures, you're challenged to create something that stays within the known facts of them.<.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33449 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/4/2005 6:34:18 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

     It's called CREATIVITY

    Creativity huh? Combining Planet of the Apes and pota2001 is NOT creativity, it's called blasphemy...    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33450 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/4/2005 11:07:37 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

    *** Irrelevant. Stewart DIDN'T survive the crash, so Dehn's line is
    right not to include "three friends" and sticks with just two.


    No, not irrelevant... Taylor more than likely would have told Zira and Cornelius that there was indeed a third shipmate on board, and they would have known about her death... So, why didn't Zira/Cornelius say anything to Brent regarding her: Because Paul Dehn didn't check his continuity...
    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33451 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/4/2005 11:07:37 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

    *** NONE of the astronauts are referenced in "ESCAPE". The President
    refers to the three APE-ONAUTS who splashed down the day before,
    mentioning that one of the three had been killed at the zoo. He's
    talking about the three apes, NOT about any of Taylor's crew.


    They say about a ship with three bodies on board, and those three bodies on board are thought (by the authorities) to be Taylor, Dodge, and Landon... The same way he only had three astronauts from the Taylor ship known in BENEATH, he carried it over to ESCAPE...
    <.html     <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33452 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
    .html
    .html.html In a message dated 12/4/2005 11:07:37 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

    And no where in "BENEATH" (or "PLANET" for that matter) is there any sign
    accompanying the Museum display ["A Human Who Spoke"]. Dodge was put
    in the Museum with no reference to him being capable of speech or
    being intelligent -- he was just another human animal amongst a
    plethora of exhibits featuring Humans-in-the-wild.


    Dodge is NOT the astronaut in question here, Landon IS... Dodge was stuffed of course because of his (to the apes) unique skin color... That is OBVIOUS... And as such, he was not "just another human animal" he was a UNIQUE human animal... How many other black humans did you see in the hunt? I seen none...

    You make it out as something else with Landon though... Why on earth would they decide to stuff and mount an already lobotomised creature? They wouldn't, unless it was say in a medical museum and they were displying him as a piece who successfully survived a lobotomy... But the museum in PLANET looked to be pretty much a natural history type of museum, NOT a medical museum...

    There would have to be a reason as to why they'd display a piece that had been experimented on, because there were no other dummys that looked surgically altered in any of the displays in PLANET's museum. The ONLY reason that would make any sense to why they'd maybe consider Landon as a unique piece would be if there was a rumor about of a talking human...

    <.html    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33453 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Special Permission...
    .html
    .html

    After CAESAR Rory!?!?!

    Are you getting all circular here – isn’t Caesar born AFTER 39fifty something - in 1973?!?!?!?!

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Haristas@...
    Sent: Monday, 5 December 2005 2:31 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Special Permission...

     

    In a message dated 12/3/05 6:32:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:



    Pretty straightforward I think?
    As for the President of the Academy having no knowledge about such a
    trip I see no reason why Zaius couldn't have pulled a few strings and
    got the travel permits for Cornelius without the President knowing the
    full story. Zaius seems to be the sort of control freak who has
    already kept other stuff secret so why not this? He is running the
    place after all and like most dictators can get away with what he
    wants whilst in control.

    Neil



    I surprised Patrick hasn't come up with one of his own "theories" that Zaius allowed Cornelius to explore parts of the Forbidden Zone on purpose in order to increase his own knowledge of the area.  I wouldn't put anything past Zaius, including doing things behind the back of the President.  Besides, we don't know the true nature of the "President of the Academy."  Maybe it was only a ceremonial position and it was only Zaius that actually administered the day to day running of the Academy.

    Anyway, this argument has made me realize something I'd never thought about before -- that apes needed travel permits to get from here to there.  That would be necessary in order to keep individuals from knowing too much about the true nature of their society or sharing ideas with other apes, and it just goes to show what a conservative, right-wing nightmare the ape society degenerates into after the reign of Caesar.

    -- Rory

    --
    <.html
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    Group: potadg Message: 33454 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - LANDON
    .html
    .html

    I think “the Seeds of Landon” would make a great PORN movie Rory!  ;)

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Haristas@...
    Sent: Monday, 5 December 2005 2:43 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Story - LANDON

     

    In a message dated 12/3/05 8:05:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:



    It seems implied that he was lobotomised because he spoke – however I guess he could have been unconscious when he went down and stayed unconscious…..




    I've always thought that when Landon was brought into the lab after the hunt that he must have awoken on the table and said something, perhaps in Zaius' presence and that that got him immediately lobotomized.  All those apes present that heard him talk must have been sworn to silence or transferred someplace.

    I would also assume the Landon was gelded at the same time as his lobotomy in order to keep him from mating.

    If he wasn't it opens up the possibility of an "alternative" sequel to PLANET that ignores -- which I'd be ALL for! -- the terrible events of BENEATH.  You could call it "The seeds of Landon on the Planet of the Apes."

    -- Rory

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33455 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Travel Permits
    .html
    .html

    Isn’t it amazing Rory that people who have watched this movie so many times can miss the whole TRAVEL PERMITS thing?

     

    I’d better go watch PLANET again!

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Haristas@...
    Sent:     Monday, 5 December 2005 2:31 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Special Permission...

     

    In a message dated 12/3/05 6:32:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:



    Pretty straightforward I think?
    As for the President of the Academy having no knowledge about such a
    trip I see no reason why Zaius couldn't have pulled a few strings and
    got the travel permits for Cornelius without the President knowing the
    full story. Zaius seems to be the sort of control freak who has
    already kept other stuff secret so why not this? He is running the
    place after all and like most dictators can get away with what he
    wants whilst in control.

    Neil



    I surprised Patrick hasn't come up with one of his own "theories" that Zaius allowed Cornelius to explore parts of the Forbidden Zone on purpose in order to increase his own knowledge of the area.  I wouldn't put anything past Zaius, including doing things behind the back of the President.  Besides, we don't know the true nature of the "President of the Academy."  Maybe it was only a ceremonial position and it was only Zaius that actually administered the day to day running of the Academy.

    Anyway, this argument has made me realize something I'd never thought about before -- that apes needed travel permits to get from here to there.  That would be necessary in order to keep individuals from knowing too much about the true nature of their society or sharing ideas with other apes, and it just goes to show what a conservative, right-wing nightmare the ape society degenerates into after the reign of Caesar.

    -- Rory

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33456 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
    .html
    .html

    Hell I’m married with 4 kids and I’m getting more like Taylor every day BECAUSE of that!  ;)

     

    Michael

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Monday, 5 December 2005 4:33 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...

     

    In a message dated 12/4/2005 4:57:09 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:


    he MUST have had a MOTHER! 



    If you read my post, you'll see I did say: "    So unless you mean his father and mother (or any siblings he may have had) do yourself a favor, forget the Taylor family idea..."

    I didn't forget his parents, but I have no doubt that what MR comics would be planning would involve a Mrs. George Taylor and brood...

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33457 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
    .html
    .html

    LOL!

     

     

     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
    Sent: Monday, 5 December 2005 4:58 AM
    To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
    Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story - Milo finding the ship

     

    In a message dated 12/4/2005 6:34:18 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:


    It’s called CREATIVITY



    Creativity huh? Combining Planet of the Apes and pota2001 is NOT creativity, it's called blasphemy...

    <.html
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33458 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
    .html
    Hello,

    This email message is a notification to let you know that
    a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
    group.

    File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/WPOTA 32.gif
    Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
    Description :

    You can access this file at the URL:
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%20of%20the%20Apes/WPOTA%2032.gif

    To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
    http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

    Regards,

    munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
    <.html
    Group: potadg Message: 33459 From: Neil T Foster Date: 12/4/2005
    Subject: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #32
    .html
    Attachments :
      .html Message
      <.html
      <.html
      Group: potadg Message: 33460 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
      Subject: New Chapter of WITHIN
      .html
      Attachments :
        .html

        Well the NEW chapter of WITHIN was placed without any comment, so I’ll be having a giant tantrum till we get some comments!  ;)

         

        Here it is for those who missed it….

         

         

         


        -- <.html
        <.html
        Group: potadg Message: 33461 From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: 12/4/2005
        Subject: New file uploaded to PotaDG
        .html
        Hello,

        This email message is a notification to let you know that
        a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
        group.

        File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/Current Chapter/Chapter64.gif
        Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
        Description :

        You can access this file at the URL:
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%20of%20the%20Apes/Current%20Chapter/Chapter64.gif

        To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
        http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

        Regards,

        munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
        <.html
        Group: potadg Message: 33462 From: Michael Whitty Date: 12/4/2005
        Subject: ANOTHER New Chapter of WITHIN! I love this one......
        .html
        Attachments :
          .html


          --
          -- <.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 33463 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
          Subject: Re: New Chapter of WITHIN
          .html
          .html.html I didn't realize it was posted... Anyway, good art as usual, and you're right Whitty, If Zaius "knew" that Milo seen such a contraption, there's no wayhe'd be able to fake ignorance... He'd probably be jailed to say the least...<.html<.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 33464 From: mlccougar@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
          Subject: Re: ANOTHER New Chapter of WITHIN! I love this one......
          .html
          .html.html Agreed with the topic, this is a very cool panel... I like the way the Mutant text is in the octagon boxes, and the drawings of Mendez, Onogoro, and Caspay are really good...<.html<.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 33465 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Milo finding the ship, and Landon's fate...
          .html
          .html
          In a message dated 12/4/2005 1:59:01 AM Pacific Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
          In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:50:00 PM Central Standard Time, tybunny@... writes:

          Caesar's Journal entries from the first days of the Revolution.


          He'd be to busy fighting off the authorities and getting his rebel apes to safety to even worry about keeping a journal... Don't go turning this into an all new set of ADVENTURE comics now...
            This is a great idea, Casear having a journal. He would find time to write it and it is a great tool to develop his character. Elaine

          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

          <.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 33466 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Story - Lady apes
          .html
          .html
          In a message dated 12/4/2005 2:08:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
          In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:58:32 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

           Ahhhh….yes – the great mystery of POTA (where's all the chicks?)! 


          We covered that already and pretty much deduced that the Gorilla and Orangutan females live the same lifestyle of women from the Far East... "At home, barefoot and pregnant"
            We do not know that about gorilla and orangutan females. The male writers just neglected to mention them. Elaine
          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

          <.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 33467 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Story - Milo finding the ship
          .html
          .html
          In a message dated 12/4/2005 2:13:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
          In a message dated 12/3/2005 8:42:01 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

           Well I know Ty Templeton began to write a story that includes a character from Burton's POTA (Thade).


          And it's hearing this type of rhetoric that makes me feel it may fall out of the APES tree and start in it's own forest of craziness...
          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

          <.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 33468 From: Whitty, Michael Date: 12/4/2005
          Subject: Huh?!?!
          .html
          .html
          Elaine did you press SEND before you finished your message?  :)
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
          Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 10:46 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story - Milo finding the ship

          In a message dated 12/4/2005 2:13:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
          In a message dated 12/3/2005 8:42:01 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

           Well I know Ty Templeton began to write a story that includes a character from Burton's POTA (Thade).
          And it's hearing this type of rhetoric that makes me feel it may fall out of the APES tree and start in it's own forest of craziness...
          <.html

          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 33469 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Within the Planet of the Apes strip #31
          .html
          .html
          In a message dated 12/4/2005 3:14:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, LordTZer0@... writes:
          In a message dated 12/3/2005 7:33:30 P.M. Central Standard Time, taebokitti@... writes:
          Knowing the truth can be fatal.
           
          More often then not,
          not knowing the truth can be fatal.
            I am so proud of you LT, big words and now you are philosophizing. Elaine

          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS


          <.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 33470 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
          Subject: Re: New Chapter of WITHIN
          .html
          .html I'm speechless! Elaine<.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 33471 From: PofTAfan@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
          Subject: Re: New Chapter of WITHIN
          .html
          .html
                        I think Milo would have been executed for heresy and the ship would have been destroyed. Other than that, the latest chapter of WITHIN is excellent!!
          <.html
          <.html
          Group: potadg Message: 33472 From: taebokitti@aol.com Date: 12/4/2005
          Subject: Re: Huh?!?!
          .html
          .html
          In a message dated 12/4/2005 3:50:27 PM Pacific Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:
          Elaine did you press SEND before you finished your message?  :)
          -----Original Message-----
          From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of taebokitti@...
          Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 10:46 AM
          To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Story - Milo finding the ship

          In a message dated 12/4/2005 2:13:55 AM Pacific Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:
          In a message dated 12/3/2005 8:42:01 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

           Well I know Ty Templeton began to write a story that includes a character from Burton's POTA (Thade).
          And it's hearing this type of rhetoric that makes me feel it may fall out of the APES tree and start in it's own forest of craziness...

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