.html <.html

.html Taylor appears to be quite angry. Elaine<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/6/2005 12:04:36 AM Central Standard Time,
> whitty@c... writes:
>
> > Was there a reference to Dodge’s skin colour in the script or

in a CURTIS

> > comic?
>
> I never read an ESCAPE script, so I can't say for sure... However,

the color of his skin IS mentioned in the novel of ESCAPE, and I'd
have to re-read it, but I "think" it's also mentioned in the old
MARVEL adaption...

*** Whaaat? You've never read an ESCAPE script? Why the smeg NOT???

Yes, the color-of-Dodge's-skin-being-black is mentioned in the
SCRIPT, in Pournelle's NOVELIZATION, and in the MARVEL adaptation.

But it is NOT, repeat NOT, in the actual film of "ESCAPE FROM THE
PLANET OF THE APES". Thus, whether anybody wants to consider this
business to be CANON or not is an individual choice. Perhaps Dodge
was put in the Museum SOLELY because of his 'unique' skin color (if
one wishes to consider the NON-FILMED bit from the script to be
canon)... or perhaps he's in there because he's DEAD and there was
ROOM IN THE GODDAMNED MUSEUM FOR ANOTHER EXHIBIT.

Remember that little bit of dialogue in "PLANET", when Lucius and
Zira spring Taylor from his cage? Let me repeat it for ya:

"REMEMBER, ALL MEN LOOK ALIKE TO MOST APES..." Zira says this well
after Dodge had been stuffed and mounted in the museum. Zira says ALL
men -- not MOST men. She doesn't say "All men -- excepting your black-
skinned fellow space-traveler -- look alike to most apes..." etc etc.

If we ignore the SCRIPTED yet UNFILMED bit of dialogue from "ESCAPE",
then we could conclude that the Apes didn't consider Dodge to be
anything other than just a human -- maybe a bit darker than most, and
that might be due to more sun-exposure, for all the Apes know -- but
still just another damned, dirty human.

There IS that line of Ursus', though:

"I don't say that ALL humans are evil, simply because their skin is
WHITE... No!" etc.

Let me ask you all a question: As far as 'blackness' goes, how black
does Dodge seem to you? Sure, he's an African-American... a 'black'
man... but there are DEGREES of darkness in skin color -- a RANGE of
hues. The native Africans, the Australian aborigines (at least, the
ones I see in National Geographic magazine), are all much MUCH darker-
skinned than the average black dude in America. Halle Berry and Tyra
Banks are both 'black' women, but they're much lighter-
skinned 'black' women than many. I've read that there are racial
tensions amongst some different 'black' groups -- those who don't
think the lighter-skinned 'blacks' are 'black' enough, that sort of
thing.

As I type this, I'm watching a freeze-frame from "PLANET" -- the shot
of Dodge stuffed in the museum. Sure, he and Taylor have different
looking skin hues -- Taylor's tanned and ruddy-complected and Dodge
is a 'black'-skinned man -- but Dodge is not COAL BLACK. His skin
isn't THAT MUCH darker than the skin color we can see on all the
other stuffed humans exhibited there. He's not black the way a
Nigerian or an Ethiopian is black.

If it weren't for that passage in the SCRIPT... which made it into
Pournelle's NOVELIZATION and into Marvel's COMIC version... would it
be so "very obvious" that his SKIN COLOR is the reason that he's in
the Zaius Museum?

When Dodge is killed in the Hunt, he's wearing that bright YELLOW
thing (I think it was supposed to be some kind of water-collector --
isn't there a shot of the 3 astronauts sitting in the shade under it,
somewhere?...). Yet he isn't wearing that bright yellow 'clothing' in
the museum exhibit.

Why not?

If he's in there because of the UNIQUE color of his skin, then why
the hell isn't his UNIQUE type of clothing -- a bright YELLOW,
artificially-manufactured fabric of some sort -- still adorning him?

Zira's FIRST line in the movie is: "Which one was wearing the strange
clothes?"

What ABOUT those "strange clothes" -- the ones Taylor was wearing, as
well as the ones that were still on Dodge's corpse in that cornfield?

"It's most unusual... He's using that old blanket as clothing..."

Taylor must have arrived in Zira's vet lab wearing "strange clothes",
and word got to Zira that there was a live, injured human caught in
the Hunt had been wearing these "strange clothes"... and, before the
blood transfusion (etc), his "strange clothes" must have been taken
off for some reason -- so that he had to use the "old blanket" as
clothing in lieu of it, afterward.

I'll ask again: WHY weren't Dodge's "strange clothes" considered
unique enough to warrant including them in his museum exhibit? I
should think that his abnormal clothing would be more of a cause for
his display than his skin color.

If you want to consider it 'canon' that Dodge is in the Museum
because the apes marvelled at his black-hued skin, then go on ahead
and do it. I don't particularly care. But, because this explanation
is NOT on film, I don't have to consider it 'canon'. Why aren't his
OTHER unique traits qualification enough to put him into the Museum?
What about his 'nappy' hair? How many POTA-native humans have hair
like his? Yet Zira -- in that scripted "ESCAPE" scene -- never
mentions his hair-type, does she?

"All men look alike to most apes..."

THAT line is on film, and -- as far as I'm concerned -- that makes it
canon. And "all" includes Dodge, his skin-color notwithstanding.
Sure, the more discriminating Ape (especially the ones who work with
humans, like Zira) might notice that Dodge's skin has a different hue
than the average human, but whether or not that one 'unique' aspect
led to his corpse being stuffed in the Museum, that's another thing.
His 'nappy' hair... his bright YELLOW clothing... those, too,
are 'unique' qualities that we should take into account. Yet he ain't
wearing those yellow duds in the Museum. Why not? It stands out,
doesn't it? During the Hunt -- you can easily pick out Dodge in a
crowd because of that bright yellow thingy he's wearing. It's
probably what gets him shot -- the gorilla probably noticed that
BRIGHT YELLOW cloth on that human and thought: "Hmmm... I better bag
that one, for sure!"

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> If he's in there because of the UNIQUE color of his skin, then why

the hell isn't his UNIQUE type of clothing -- a bright YELLOW,
artificially-manufactured fabric of some sort -- still adorning him?

-- Probably for that very reason, so his unique skin colour can be
seen?

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , taebokitti@a... wrote:

>
> Taylor appears to be quite angry.

-- Well he was a cranky old bugger most of the time wasn't he?

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:

>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
> >
> > Taylor appears to be quite angry.
>
> -- Well he was a cranky old bugger most of the time wasn't he?
>
> Neil
>

-- Two adults fighting over a doll, you'd think it was Christmas
time at a comic shop :)
Best Graham.
ps It doesn't even look like it's mint!!

.html
-- <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 12/5/2005 10:12:15 AM Central Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@y... writes:
>
> *** How do YOU know what the authorities thought?! Are you a mind-

reader, like the fleshy-headed mutants in the Forbidden Zone?

>
> It'd pretty fuc*ing obvious... Why the hell else would they have

been surprised to hear that three beings that they thought were dead
might still be alive?! The tone in their voices alone says it...

>
> Now go ahead and write a short story to tell me how wrong I am...

*** You asked for it...

Here's the dialogue from scene 7/28 on the DVD of "ESCAPE" relevant
to this silly argument:

PRESIDENT: "Good afternoon, gentlemen."

GROUP: "Mister President" etc etc.

PRESIDENT: "I'm aware that what I have to tell you may conceivably
create a credibility gap somewhat wider than the Grand Canyon."

GROUP: [laughs]

PRESIDENT: "Nonetheless, it is true: Yesterday, a U.S. spacecraft
splashed down off the southern California coast. It was one of two
that have been missing in space for over two years now. To be exact,
the one commanded by Colonel Taylor."

GROUP: "Taylor--" etc.

ARMY GENERAL: "Have they identified the bodies, Mister President?"

PRESIDENT: "They have identified three bodies, yes. All living."

GENERAL FAULKNER: "Taylor's alive?"

PRESIDENT: "... at the time of their rescue. Through an unfortunate
accident, one of them was killed early this morning in the Los
Angeles Zoo."

ARMY GENERAL: "Zoo?"

GENERAL FAULKNER: "What would astronauts be doing in a zoo, Mister
President?"

PRESIDENT: "They are NOT astronauts, General Faulkner. They are apes."

--------------etc etc.--------------------------

What does this dialogue show? A number of things.

1) The President knows -- before ANY of these other guys in the Oval
Office knows, with the possible exception of Dr. Hasslein -- that
the "three bodies" which are "all living" are APES. When HE says
that "they" (whoever "they" are...) have identified THREE BODIES, the
President knows that those three are Apes.

2) The audience in the Oval Office -- not privy to this Top Secret
information -- naturally ASSUMES that the "three bodies" are HUMAN,
the astronauts. They don't have much time to ask very many more
questions about those 3 living bodies before they find out that they
are NOT astronauts, but APES.

3) By the time the crowd is told that the 3 are Apes -- and NOT
Taylor and his crew -- the whole issue of the NUMBER of 'bodies' in
the spacecraft becomes MOOT. It would be ridiculous for one of these
generals -- assuming he KNEW that there were supposed to be FOUR
astronauts on the spacecraft -- to ask: "Why were there only THREE of
these apes in the ship, Mister President? The vehicle could fit FOUR
astronauts, couldn't it? Why weren't there FOUR apes in it?" That
sort of thing would be STOOOOOOPID.

4) The ONLY thing that these Authorities had the time to think is
what they SPOKE OF when they were with the President, hearing him
tell him this stuff. The TWO THOUGHTS that they've had the time to
ponder in their heads, after hearing about the "three bodies" that
are "all living" are: "Is Taylor alive?" and "What would astronauts
be doing in a zoo, Mister President?"

We have NO WAY OF KNOWING if any of these generals was intimately
acquainted with the details of Taylor's mission -- including how many
astronauts were on the ship. You seem to think that it was well-
known, public knowledge, that Taylor and his crew were world-famous,
the same way that the Apollo astronauts who went to the Moon were.

I tend to doubt it, though. The 'big news' in Space, for the POTA-
universe masses in 1973 was the MOON LANDING. The public knew NOTHING
about the interstellar mission to a star 320 lightyears away in
Orion. We KNOW this because the BBC news anchor says:

"One of the two American spaceships believed, until now, to have
disintegrated in orbit, splashed down unexpectedly yesterday in the
Pacific Ocean off the coast of southern California, and is stated to
have been manned -- if you can call it 'manned' -- by monkeys."

What these ANSA ships were all about and what the PUBLIC was told
about them are TWO SEPARATE THINGS. The public was told -- lied to --
that they "disintegrated in orbit". The President was informed that
they were "missing in space". BOTH can't be true! And NEITHER is
true. The guys in charge of ANSA must be hoodwinking EVERYBODY about
these Top-Secret INTERSTELLAR space voyages.

Taylor's 'final report' was given when the EARTH-TIME date was 2673,
exactly 700 YEARS after "ESCAPE" takes place. And Taylor's ship was
still in WORKING ORDER then -- he'd tucked his crew in for the Long
Sleep and had the ship being run by the computers. The ship had been
in working order AT LEAST from the time of Liftoff until then,
meaning that it CAN'T have been "missing in space" in 1973. ANSA knew
damned well where it was in 1973: Taylor's ship was around THREE
TENTHS OF A LIGHTYEAR AWAY, still heading out to its destination.

It takes 2,006 years of EARTH-TIME for it to go out 320 lightyears.
It left Earth on around January 15th, 1972 ("six months" prior to the
SHIP-TIME date of "7-14-1972" seen in the opening scene of "PLANET"),
and "ESCAPE" takes place sometime (probably late) in 1973, so that
Taylor's ship is less than TWO YEARS into its 2,006-year voyage,
which corresponds to about 3/10ths of a lightyear, tops, perhaps
around 100 light-days, roughly 5,000,000,000 astronomical units.

I can already hear the shouts: "What about the President's line about
the two ships that have been missing in space for OVER TWO YEARS now?"

Good question. Of course, I have an answer for it.

Taylor's ship, of course, HAS to be one of the two ships, and it has
not been missing for "over two years" if it left in January of 1972
and it is still the year 1973 during "ESCAPE" (which it is).

So, is it a mistake?

No. This only shows that Taylor's ship was sent out AFTER the ship
that has been supposedly "missing in space" for over two years. The
1st of the 2 ANSA missions -- the one commanded by Colonel Alan
Virdon that was sent out to the nearest star system, Alpha Centauri --
left Earth BEFORE Taylor's mission to Orion was sent out. Virdon's
ship left Earth BEFORE the arrival of the Ape-onauts. Just as it
takes Taylor's ship(s) 2,006 years of EARTH-TIME to travel 320
lightyears, so too does it take an comparable amount of EARTH-TIME
for Virdon's ship to travel the 4.34-lightyear distance to Alpha
Centauri.

Virdon's ship ARRIVED at Alpha Centauri on 8-19-1980, and its EARTH-
TIME and SHIP-TIME chronometers must have been synchronized to that
arrival date once they arrived there, just prior to their run-in with
the "radioactive turbulence" and the Timewarp.

In my scenario, it takes Virdon's ship less than a single day of SHIP-
TIME to travel to Alpha Centauri, corresponding to a duration of 9
years of EARTH-TIME. It leaves Earth in the summer of 1971 -- a half
a year before Taylor's ship leaves Earth -- and 9 years later, at
Alpha Centauri, Virdon and Burke and Jones have only aged about a day
or so. The SAME effect that Taylor's crew experiences -- Time
Dilation at "nearly the speed of light" -- is experienced by Virdon's
crew. The only difference being that the speed of light varies in
warped space.

Photons travel at 299,792,458 meters per second in a pure vacuum --
but the photon-like warpfield that is generated by the Hassleinian
hyperdrive engine has to lug around the mass of a spaceship and its
fuel, and just as a photon is SLOWED DOWN when travelling through a
mass-containing medium that has an Index of Refraction greater than
One, so too does a photon-like warpfield traveling with a mass-load
inside it propagate at a "lightspeed" slower than a massless photon
in a pure vacuum.

For Taylor's Orion mission -- comprising a Command Ship and 3
shuttlecraft -- the Index of Refraction is relatively HIGH -- on the
order of 6.25 rather than 1 -- so that its "lightspeed" is actually
1/6.25 that of a massless photon in a pure vacuum: roughly 48,000
kilometers per second.

For Virdon's Centauri mission -- comprising ONLY one solitary
shuttlecraft -- the Index of Refraction is relatively LOW -- on the
order of 2.07 rather than 1 -- so that its "lightspeed" is actually
1/2.07 that of a massless photon in a pure vacuum: roughly 145,000
kilometers per second.

Virdon's ship -- at the same "warp factor" -- travels about 3 times
faster than Taylor's ship, covering the 4.34-lightyear distance in 9
years of EARTH-TIME, a distance it would take Taylor's ship 27.2
years of EARTH-TIME to cover. In fact, by the time Virdon's ship has
traveled the 4.34 lightyears to Alpha Centauri in August of 1980,
Taylor's ship has only traveled about 1.3 lightyears; if Virdon's
ship had been sent to the Orion destination, it would've taken him
only 663 years of EARTH-TIME (rather than 2,006 years) -- he'd have
arrived there circa 2635 A.D. If Taylor would've gone to Alpha
Centauri instead, he'd have arrived there in 1999 A.D.

To recap:

Virdon's ship left Earth in the summer of 1971 -- "over two years"
prior to the landing of the Ape-onauts.

Taylor's ship, the "other" of the two "missing-in-space" ships (which
aren't REALLY missing, or "disintegrated in orbit" either, for that
matter) left Earth in mid-January of 1972.

The Ape-onauts land on Earth probably in the autumn of 1973, towards
the end of the circus season, before Armando heads to his "winter
quarters" in Florida.

Few people -- if any -- outside ANSA have any idea whatsoever about
the TRUE nature of their spacecraft. The President was misinformed
about them -- told that they were "missing in space" when they
weren't. The public was misinformed about them -- told that
they'd "disintegrated in orbit". But ANSA knows better. And NASA
probably shit bricks when they got the opportunity to examine that
advanced spacecraft -- a vehicle that put to shame their mere Moon-
sent rockets. The Apollo crews didn't need EARTH-TIME chronometers!

But ANSA did. They expected Taylor's ship to arrive at its
destination in 3978 -- 2,006 years after it had left Earth; they
expected never to see it in their lifetimes (unlike Virdon's ship,
which would take 9 years to get to Alpha Centauri and another 9
years, after a recon expedition, to get back home, in 1989). However,
they did not expect one of Taylor's ship's shuttlecraft to pop out of
nowhere and splash down almost two years after it left...

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

>
> Hey Graham - what have you been painting (notice how I am such a
> diplomat re the cricket!)?
>
> Michael
>
>

Hi Michael, I have been painting but have got stuck on one portrait,
constantly re-working it so I now can't see the wood for the trees. :)
The lack of post have been down to having a couple of bad weeks on a
personal level (nothing to do with the cricket, although it didn't
help.:) ) You wouldn't believe how many " Within " I'm behind on now!!
Best Wishes Graham.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

>
> Good points Patrick.
>
> I think another indication might be the amount of apes present at

the arena in Beneath where Ursus makes his speech.

>
> It seems the city is quite bare at this time - maybe only the

elderly, children and housewives not present..

>
> So Patrick - what do you think of Neil's crazy robot??? ;) Out of
> control without his meds, that fella...
>
> Michael

*** Uh, Mike, Ursus' speech WAS the Citizens' Council meeting that I
referenced below (in the post you replied to). His first words
are "Greetings, members of the Citizens' Council. I am a simple
soldier and, as a soldier, I see things simply..." etc etc.

As for Neil's crazy robot, isn't that the latest dance craze? Are the
80's back?

I am wondering, though, when this crazy robot may have been built
(according to your scenario & timeline). Is it a 20th Century
artifact, having been in this Mutant Spaceship Museum since the time
of the Nuke War, or was it built centuries later, perhaps by Mutants?

Is Milo gonna salvage PARTS from one of these ANSA vehicles and
replace damaged goods in a 'salvaged' (and, presumably, dredged-up)
ship from Dead Lake -- i.e. the "PLANET" ship? Or, is the ship that
your Milo wants illuminated on the inside gonna BE the ship that he
and Zira & Cornelius fly into orbit (it certainly has the gull-wing
hatch it'll have to have...)? If so, how can this craft then be said
to be "the one commanded by Colonel Taylor"?

You got some 'splainin' to do!

Patrick

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> Of patrickmichaeltilton
> Sent: Wednesday, 7 December 2005 9:42 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: How many Apes...
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> > > But there were too many there to
> > > arrest all of them. Ape City is not that big.
> >
> > -- Good point, so just how big would the population of Ape City

be do

> > you think? Any ideas anyone?
> >
> > Neil
> >
> *** In the screenplay of "BENEATH" there's some extra dialogue in

the

> steamroom scene:
>
> URSUS "Then let us discuss what is evident and what is expedient.

What

> is evident is that by this overpopulation we face famine. What is
> expedient is - "
>
> ZAIUS " - that we should control it."
>
> URSUS "And be outnumbered by our enemies? I look to the day when

not

> thousands but millions will march under the Ape banner."
>
> Thus, it seems (if we were to take this dialogue into

consideration)

> that there are only "thousands" of Apes in this East Coast

civilization.

>
> Is this bit 'canon'? Hmmm... I'm betting that this WAS filmed, and

that

> the film-cut we've all seen has been trimmed down... but IF this
> footage still exists and could be re-integrated into it, as a sort
> of "complete cut" of BENEATH... then I'd consider it 'canon' --

just as

> the extra BATTLE footage (which foreign audiences got to see)

should be

> considered canon (in my opinion).
>
> Honestly, I can't see there being MILLIONS of Apes, given the size

of

> Ape City. We can assume that there are other neighboring towns...
> perhaps some farms with non-city population nearby... that sort of
> thing. Is the population in the TENS of thousands, or HUNDREDS of
> thousands... or just the THOUSANDS? If I had to pick a number off

the

> top of my head, I'd guess less than 10,000... say, 5,000 or so.
>
> One other 'hint' perhaps: the Citizens' Council is probably a kind
> of 'representative' body, where each Ape present represents a

certain

> number of other Apes. How many apes are present at the meeting? Has
> anyone done a head-count? How many apes, do you suppose, each of

these

> representatives in the Citizens' Council represent?
>
> I'm gonna have ta pop "BENEATH" in again, and count some monkeys...
>
> Patrick
>
> --
>

Hey there….did anyone get their filthy paws on this comic today?

 

Any news on whether they hit the stands on time?

 

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil" <nfoster@h...> wrote:

>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
> <patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:
> > If he's in there because of the UNIQUE color of his skin, then why
> the hell isn't his UNIQUE type of clothing -- a bright YELLOW,
> artificially-manufactured fabric of some sort -- still adorning him?
>
> -- Probably for that very reason, so his unique skin colour can be
> seen?
>
> Neil
>

*** For Pete's sake, Neil (Alan's too), that bright yellow thingy was
NOT a burqa! You can still see enough of his skin during the Hunt
scene, can't ya?

Patrick

.html.html In a message dated 12/7/2005 6:50:34 AM Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- Probably for that very reason, so his unique skin colour can be
seen?

Exactly!

<.html <.html

I believe the issue is being printed today (Wednesday), or tomorrow.  I have a copy of the make-ready in my hands right now.  With luck, it will ship next Wed.

Ty

On 12/7/05, Greg Plonowski < urko3085@...> wrote:

When I checked Diamond's release list for this week it wasn't listed, so it looks like it won't be in shops this week.

 

It's also not on next week's ship list, but I'm guessing there's still a chance it could make it into shops next week. It's just not certain yet, so we'll have to wait until next Monday evening to check the final list for next week to be sure (unless Ty has any firm info from his printer?)

 

http://www.diamondcomics.com/shipping.asp

 

Greg

 

Michael Whitty <whitty@... > wrote:

Hey there….did anyone get their filthy paws on this comic today?

 

Any news on whether they hit the stands on time?

 

Michael

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See, Michael. I told you about a month ago that it looked just like
the robot that killed the Fantastic Four cartoon. Jump that shark
Fonzie! Now I know that all those purist who write 11 page post on
every little timeline theroy and horse nostril will have to have
something interesting to say about this. That is after they finish
their roll playing game, they take a break from their Star Trek DVD
marathon, and they leave their Mother's basements in search of
Dorito's and Mountain Dew.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Greg Plonowski <urko3085@s...> wrote:
>
> Hey! It's H.E.R.B.I.E.!
>
> No wonder he didn't show up in the FF movie. He was posing for
Neil.
>
> Seriously, interesting development. Didn't see that coming.
>
> Greg
>
> PotaDG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
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.html So now Cornelius is an Elvis impersonator. He can do weddings. Elaine<.html

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Ak!

Just to let you know...I just got off the phone with the printers, and they tell me, with the December glut of product, they're no longer guaranteeing it will be out next week.  So TWO weeks from now seems more likely. 

I promise, though...it's done.  The makeready is in my hands, and it looks good.  It's all in the hands of the men with the printing press and the trucks.

And we're only a week or so away from finishing up #2 to get ready to go to the printers.   Issue three is about half drawn, and not at all yet lettered, but it's well underway.  The scripts for #4 have been approved and art will start on that one in a couple of weeks.

We're about halfway through the miniseries around here, and so far, there's no issue or story that sucks yet!  Woo hoo!

Ty

On 12/7/05, Michael Whitty < whitty@...> wrote:

Well I guess it is only fair that you got the first one!  J

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ty Templeton
Sent: Thursday, 8 December 2005 1:28 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Revolution on the Planet of the Apes RELEASE DATE!

 

I have a copy of the make-ready in my hands right now

SPONSORED LINKS

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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@y...> wrote:

> *** For Pete's sake, Neil (Alan's too), that bright yellow thingy

was NOT a burqa! You can still see enough of his skin during the Hunt
scene, can't ya?

-- Patrick if I was displaying something in a museum because of its
uniqueness, like a strange skin colour for example, I would NOT put
even the tiniest piece of covering on it.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Well the robot sure is more advanced than THIS ship so I imaging it

was built around 2300.

-- Sorry but I don't see the problem with the technology here. The
spaceships in POTA are obviously light years ahead of what was around
at the time so why not the accessories that go with them? I don't see
the robot as being more advanced than the ships myself.

Neil

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.html
-- <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "John" <DrZaiusDavis@a...> wrote:

> See, Michael. I told you about a month ago that it looked just like
> the robot that killed the Fantastic Four cartoon.

-- I did deliberately base the robot's head on POTA technology if that
helps anyone come to terms with it.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Yeah well I do so got eat biscuits! ;)

-- I think one of the big problems with POTA stuff is that most of the
movies were set a fair bit in the future compared to when they were
actually made (Conquest for example) and now time has taken over those
future scenarios but we all still keep basing our theories etc. on
those old (by now) dates.
Really a complete update of the POTA dates is needed to keep the thing
relevant and to make sense.

Neil (having bikkies for breakfast!)

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:27 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Domo arigato Neil's crazy roboto

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Yeah well I do so got eat biscuits!  ;)

-- I think one of the big problems with POTA stuff is that most of the
movies were set a fair bit in the future compared to when they were
actually made (Conquest for example) and now time has taken over those
future scenarios but we all still keep basing our theories etc. on
those old (by now) dates.
Really a complete update of the POTA dates is needed to keep the thing
relevant and to make sense.

Neil (having bikkies for breakfast!)

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/7/2005 12:01:17 A.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

For something that is so old and has been worn that many times it
looks in remarkably good condition.

 

Isn't that the one that Bill Blake used?

 

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:57 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Anyone got 25 grand? Zira for sale

In a message dated 12/7/2005 12:01:17 A.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

For something that is so old and has been worn that many times it
looks in remarkably good condition.

 

Isn't that the one that Bill Blake used?

<.html

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Within the Planet of the Apes/Current Chapter/Chapters 67 & 68.gif
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%20of%20the%20Apes/Current%20Chapter/Chapters%2067%20%26%2068.gif

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

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In a message dated 12/7/2005 4:47:36 A.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Thus, it seems (if we were to take this dialogue into consideration)
that there are only "thousands" of Apes in this East Coast civilization.

 

I think a good way to estimate the population of Ape City

is the amphitheater.  I would say that a good percentage

of the population was represented at the meeting for the

Ursus speech.  It would seem that for much of the army

and nearly all academy members that was a mandatory

meeting.  I don't think the total population exceeds the

total attendance of the meeting by more than 3 - 5 times.

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/7/2005 9:32:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

Neil .'-)

 

I never knew your artistic talents

extended to Photoshop as well.

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 9:39 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Anyone got 25 grand? Zira for sale

In a message dated 12/7/2005 9:32:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

Neil .'-)

 

I never knew your artistic talents extended to Photoshop as well.

<.html

.html

 

It's SNOWING here!

Not a big deal to you northerners,

but it only snows here once or twice

a year, if at all.  So it's cool to me.

 

 

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , taebokitti@a... wrote:

>
>
>
> Taylor did come across as an individual that was rarely a happy

camper,

> regardless of his circumstances. Elaine
>
>

Hi Elaine,
Sigh... even as a 9 year old I could relate :)
Best Graham.

.html

In a message dated 12/7/2005 9:49:40 A.M. Central Standard Time, apefan23@... writes:

Neil...you're killin me!!!!

 

No kidding!  You should do more of these!

Once a month, at least!

 

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 9:40 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Anyone got 25 grand? Zira for sale

In a message dated 12/7/2005 9:49:40 A.M. Central Standard Time, apefan23@... writes:

Neil...you're killin me!!!!

 

No kidding!  You should do more of these!

Once a month, at least!

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/7/2005 4:45:53 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I never knew your artistic talents extended to Photoshop as well.

 

I guess to get up for Cornelius' Elvis Show Zira needs a little toad.

 

Judging from the size of her tongue the rumors about him are true.

 

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 9:49 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Anyone got 25 grand? Zira for sale

In a message dated 12/7/2005 4:45:53 P.M. Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I never knew your artistic talents extended to Photoshop as well.

 

I guess to get up for Cornelius' Elvis Show Zira needs a little toad.

 

Judging from the size of her tongue the rumors about him are true.

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> I think a good way to estimate the population of Ape City
> is the amphitheater. I would say that a good percentage
> of the population was represented at the meeting for the
> Ursus speech. It would seem that for much of the army
> and nearly all academy members that was a mandatory
> meeting.

-- Unless much like local Council meetings over here, any members of
the public are welcome to attend as observers but only a certain (very
small) number can fit in the council chamber (insert amphitheatre
thing.)

The large amount of gorillas would be for Ursus' sake and they could
just be some of his elite troops or some such thing.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> I never knew your artistic talents
> extended to Photoshop as well.

-- Well all those graphics computer programs are is just another tool.

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 10:04 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: How many Apes...

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> I think a good way to estimate the population of Ape City
> is the amphitheater.  I would say that a good percentage
> of the population was represented at the meeting for the
> Ursus speech.  It would seem that for much of the army
> and nearly all academy members that was a mandatory
> meeting.

-- Unless much like local Council meetings over here, any members of
the public are welcome to attend as observers but only a certain (very
small) number can fit in the council chamber (insert amphitheatre
thing.)

The large amount of gorillas would be for Ursus' sake and they could
just be some of his elite troops or some such thing.

Neil

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , LordTZer0@A... wrote:

> It's SNOWING here!
> Not a big deal to you northerners,
> but it only snows here once or twice
> a year, if at all. So it's cool to me.

-- Thanks! Last night it got down (ha!) to a low of 24 degrees and
will be up (again!) in the mid to high 30's today and it is already
HOT. Gotta love Christmas time in Queensland :-(

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 10:14 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Anyone got 25 grand? Zira for sale

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
> It's SNOWING here!
> Not a big deal to you northerners,
> but it only snows here once or twice
> a year, if at all.  So it's cool to me.

-- Thanks! Last night it got down (ha!) to a low of 24 degrees and
will be up (again!) in the mid to high 30's today and it is already
HOT. Gotta love Christmas time in Queensland :-(

Neil

<.html

To us backward Americans, 24ºC is 75.2ºF and 35ºC is 95ºF.

OK, I've figured it out; the robots head resembles the President's
television.

Anthony

On Dec 7, 2005, at 5:14 p.m., Neil wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>> It's SNOWING here!
>> Not a big deal to you northerners,
>> but it only snows here once or twice
>> a year, if at all. So it's cool to me.
>
> -- Thanks! Last night it got down (ha!) to a low of 24 degrees and
> will be up (again!) in the mid to high 30's today and it is already
> HOT. Gotta love Christmas time in Queensland :-(
>
> Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Anthony B. McElveen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 11:08 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Anyone got 25 grand? Zira for sale

To us backward Americans, 24ºC is 75.2ºF and 35ºC is 95ºF.

OK, I've figured it out; the robots head resembles the President's 
television.

Anthony


On Dec 7, 2005, at 5:14 p.m., Neil wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>> It's SNOWING here!
>> Not a big deal to you northerners,
>> but it only snows here once or twice
>> a year, if at all.  So it's cool to me.
>
> -- Thanks! Last night it got down (ha!) to a low of 24 degrees and
> will be up (again!) in the mid to high 30's today and it is already
> HOT. Gotta love Christmas time in Queensland :-(
>
> Neil

<.html

.html
<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Anthony B. McElveen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 11:26 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Anyone got 25 grand? Zira for sale

Sorry, it was Governor Breck's television, wasn't it?

It's almost 7 p.m. on Wednesday, 7 December here. I don't know about Canberra, but I'm 15 hours behind Sydney. :)

On Dec 7, 2005, at 6:12 p.m., Whitty, Michael wrote:

What President - where?  :)

 

Thanks for the conversions - and if you were wondering why upside-down Aussies think Americans are backwards, then.....what DAY is it over there?!?!?!?  :)

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Anthony B. McElveen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 11:08 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Anyone got 25 grand? Zira for sale

To us backward Americans, 24ºC is 75.2ºF and 35ºC is 95ºF.

OK, I've figured it out; the robots head resembles the President's 
television.

Anthony


On Dec 7, 2005, at 5:14 p.m., Neil wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@A... wrote:
>> It's SNOWING here!
>> Not a big deal to you northerners,
>> but it only snows here once or twice
>> a year, if at all.  So it's cool to me.
>
> -- Thanks! Last night it got down (ha!) to a low of 24 degrees and
> will be up (again!) in the mid to high 30's today and it is already
> HOT. Gotta love Christmas time in Queensland :-(
>
> Neil

<.html

.html <.html

Weren't the super 8 films just remarkably edited down versions of the theatrical movies?  I never had an Apes Super 8, but I did have one for 1,000,000 years B.C. and the darn thing is only about ten minutes long. 

Ty

On 12/7/05, Whitty, Michael < Michael.Whitty@...> wrote:

An idea has been proposed that we attempt to reproduce the (Ken Films was it?) POTA Super 8 films.

 

Thinking about this, wouldn't the only way to do so be to take a video of the screen they are plaing on or is there some output on super 8 projectors (doubt it!).

 

Michael

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ty Templeton
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:35 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Planet of the Apes Super-8 films...

Weren't the super 8 films just remarkably edited down versions of the theatrical movies?  I never had an Apes Super 8, but I did have one for 1,000,000 years B.C. and the darn thing is only about ten minutes long. 

Ty

On 12/7/05, Whitty, Michael <Michael.Whitty@...> wrote:

An idea has been proposed that we attempt to reproduce the (Ken Films was it?) POTA Super 8 films.

 

Thinking about this, wouldn't the only way to do so be to take a video of the screen they are plaing on or is there some output on super 8 projectors (doubt it!).

 

Michael

<.html

I still have a fairly sizable Power records collection...mostly Star Trek and DC heroes, though.  (Including some extrememly rare Plastic Man, Metamorpho, Conan and Justice League Power Records Singles)  But I don't have any of my Apes ones left...at least I don't think I do.  I'd have to check...I certainly had them at some point.

One of my Star Trek Power records has four little radio plays, written by Neal Adams (a DC Batman artist of some great reknown) and they may be the worst written things I've ever come across.  It includes a story about an alien spore that tickels the whole crew.  Imagine Spock laughing at everything Kirk says (played by poor imitations) and you're getting there.

Ty

.html
<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ty Templeton
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:58 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Planet of the Apes Super-8 films...

I still have a fairly sizable Power records collection...mostly Star Trek and DC heroes, though.  (Including some extrememly rare Plastic Man, Metamorpho, Conan and Justice League Power Records Singles)  But I don't have any of my Apes ones left...at least I don't think I do.  I'd have to check...I certainly had them at some point.

One of my Star Trek Power records has four little radio plays, written by Neal Adams (a DC Batman artist of some great reknown) and they may be the worst written things I've ever come across.  It includes a story about an alien spore that tickels the whole crew.  Imagine Spock laughing at everything Kirk says (played by poor imitations) and you're getting there.

Ty

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Anthony B. McElveen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:59 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Planet of the Apes Super-8 films...

I have:

#pl-1 “planet   of the  apes" colour/sound
#pl-1 “planet   of the  apes" colour/silent
#pl-1 “planet   of the  apes"   b/w silent
#pl-2 “beneath   the  planet   of the  apes" colour/sound
#pl-2 “beneath   the  planet   of the  apes" b/w silent
#pl-3 “escape   from the  planet   of the  apes" colour/sound
#pl-3 “escape   from the  planet   of the  apes" b/w silent
#pl-4 “conquest   of the  planet   of the  apes" colour/sound
#pl-4 “conquest   of the  planet   of the  apes" b/w silent
#pl-5 “battle   for the  planet   of the  apes" colour/sound
#pl-5 “battle   for the  planet   of the  apes" b/w silent

Battle had bits that were cut out of the standard theatrical release. I think Beneath did, also, but I'm not certain.

On Dec 7, 2005, at 7:49 p.m., Whitty, Michael wrote:

You are right about that Ty.

 

I have some in B&W and some in Colour (not sure if ether have sound).

 

I'm fairly sure someone here mentioned they had the POTA ones when they were younger (Rory?).

 

I guess if we could pull it off it would essentially be a curio or a nostalgia trip (much like listening to the POWER RECORDS).

 

It really is amazing how things have changed.  It our youth, if you wanted a movie you went to the movies (or the Drive-In) - or if you were lucky it might play on TV.  If you were rich (like Ty and Rory!) ;) you had a Super 8 but - like you say - you only got a small part of the movie.  Then came VHS and Beta and they were priced out of this world, with very limited selection (remember how BENEATH was released before any of the others?).  Then we got more variety in titles but they canned Beta.

 

< SPAN class="803453701-08122005">Now we have DVDs.

 

Ty - did you have Power Records POTA books/records to play with your Megos to?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com   from the  mailto:PotaDG@yahoogroups.com   for the  On Behalf Of Ty Templeton
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:35 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re:   from the  PotaDG   for the   Planet of the Apes Super-8 films...

Weren't the super 8 films just remarkably edited down versions of the theatrical movies?  I never had an Apes Super 8, but I did have one for 1,000,000 years B.C. and the darn thing is only about ten minutes long. 

Ty

On 12/7/05, Whitty, Michael <Michael.Whitty@...> wrote:

An idea has been proposed that we attempt to reproduce the (Ken Films was it?) POTA Super 8 films.

 

Thinking about this, wouldn't the only way to do so be to take a video of the screen they are plaing on or is there some output on super 8 projectors (doubt it!).

 

Michael

UNCLASSIFIED

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ty Templeton
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:35 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Planet of the Apes Super-8 films...

Weren't the super 8 films just remarkably edited down versions of the theatrical movies?  I never had an Apes Super 8, but I did have one for 1,000,000 years B.C. and the darn thing is only about ten minutes long. 

Ty

On 12/7/05, Whitty, Michael <Michael.Whitty@...> wrote:

An idea has been proposed that we attempt to reproduce the (Ken Films was it?) POTA Super 8 films.

 

Thinking about this, wouldn't the only way to do so be to take a video of the screen they are plaing on or is there some output on super 8 projectors (doubt it!).

 

Michael

<.html

No, it's not any of the original cast on the Power Records.  Adam West don't do Batman, and Shatner didn't do the Trek ones...

It's probably best we don't get off on a tangent about Bill Shatner, (possibly my favorite actor on the planet), Boston Legal (one of my new favorite shows) and Star Trek in general (hands down the best TV show ever produced) on a POTA fansite. 

Besides being a crazed POTA fan, and a Beatlemaniac, I'm a dyed in the wool Trekkie....

When did I have time to raise a family?

Ty the Guy.  (No more Trek posts, I promise).

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Ty Templeton
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 1:08 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Planet of the Apes Super-8 films...

No, it's not any of the original cast on the Power Records.  Adam West don't do Batman, and Shatner didn't do the Trek ones...

It's probably best we don't get off on a tangent about Bill Shatner, (possibly my favorite actor on the planet), Boston Legal (one of my new favorite shows) and Star Trek in general (hands down the best TV show ever produced) on a POTA fansite. 

Besides being a crazed POTA fan, and a Beatlemaniac, I'm a dyed in the wool Trekkie....

When did I have time to raise a family?

Ty the Guy.  (No more Trek posts, I promise).

On 12/7/05, Whitty, Michael <Michael.Whitty@... > wrote:

Oh dear!  Did Shatner do the voice?  I was watching a new episode of Boston Legal last night where they made an hilarious reference to KLINGONS.....cracked me up!

Michael

-----Original Message-----

<.html

.htmlThank you. No, they're very short; less than 10 minutes each. I do have the first four episodes of Return on 16mm, though. :)<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Anthony B. McElveen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 1:15 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Planet of the Apes Super-8 films...

Thank you. No, they're very short; less than 10 minutes each. I do have the first four episodes of Return on 16mm, though. :)

On Dec 7, 2005, at 8:02 p.m., Whitty, Michael wrote:

Nice collection!

 

So are some of these full - length?!?!?!?

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Anthony B. McElveen
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:59 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Planet of the Apes Super-8 films...

I have:

#pl-1 “planet   of the  apes" colour/sound
#pl-1 “planet   of the  apes" colour/silent
#pl-1 “planet   of the  apes"   b/w silent
#pl-2 “beneath   the  planet   of the  apes" colour/sound
#pl-2 “beneath   the  planet   of the  apes" b/w silent
#pl-3 “escape   from the  planet   of the  apes" colour/sound
#pl-3 “escape   from the  planet   of the  apes" b/w silent
#pl-4 “conquest   of the  planet   of the  apes" colour/sound
#pl-4 “conquest   of the  planet   of the  apes" b/w silent
#pl-5 “battle   for the  planet   of the  apes" colour/sound
#pl-5 “battle   for the  planet   of the  apes" b/w silent

Battle had bits that were cut out of the standard theatrical release. I think Beneath did, also, but I'm not certain.

On Dec 7, 2005, at 7:49 p.m., Whitty, Michael wrote:

You are right about that Ty.

 

I have some in B&W and some in Colour (not sure if ether have sound).

 

I'm fairly sure someone here mentioned they had t he POTA ones when they were younger (Rory?).

 

I guess if we could pull it off it would essentially be a curio or a nostalgia trip (much like listening to the POWER RECORDS).

 

It really is amazing how things have changed.  It our youth, if you wanted a movie you went to the movies (or the Drive-In) - or if you were lucky it might play on TV.  If you were rich (like Ty and Rory!) ;) you had a Super 8 but - like you say - you only got a small part of the movie.  Then came VHS and Beta and they were priced out of this world, with very limited selection (remember how BENEATH was released before any of the others?).  Then we got more variety in titles but they canned Beta.

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