OK

So:

APE GOD = THE ALMIGHTY

PROTEUS = ??? (what is the line re Proteus….and is it true he is only mentioned once in PLANET and not at all in the others?)

LAWGIVER = PROPHET (like Moses – who was also a giver of law with the 10 commandments so that is probably the parallel they are trying to achieve).

Is there any evidence that there is one lawgiver or could it be that there are many lawgivers, as there are many judges (as Ty said), but this one is more famous that the others and therefore entitled “THE”?

It would have made sense to have a lawgiver at the tribunal and/or council meetings if there WERE others so I think there is just the ONE (but like I said they may have completely different characters with timelines factored in – eg if BATTLE is a NEW timeline then Ursus may be born a pacifist!).

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Friday, 16 December 2005 10:13 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Lawgiver for Ty....

In a message dated 12/15/2005 7:41:30 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I seem to recall a line where “apes are made in the image of the lawgiver”.

"The Almighty created the Ape in his own image. He gave him a soul and a mind. He set him apart from the beasts of the jungle and made him lord of the planet... These Sacred Truths are self evident..."

Yes but this is just what you and I and others believe….there is debate for a “circular” timeline….

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Friday, 16 December 2005 10:18 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Lawgiver for Ty....

In a message dated 12/15/2005 7:41:30 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

He sure as hell does NOT seem to be the same ape who wrote what he is said to have written – he’s chummy as hell with the humans!  Unless he is betrayed by humans and turns, his presence supports the “changed timeline” theory……ie evidence that he is NOT the same lawgiver referred to in all other movies.  Also not that there is a CAESAR statue at the conclusion of BATTLE……not a LAWGIVER statue.

That's because in the second timeline, the Lawgiver's persona has changed... The BATTLE Lawgiver is NOT the same one mentioned in PLANET/BENEATH... Just like other things that have "changed but stayed the same", the Lawgiver is no different...  There is still a figure titled Lawgiver in BATTLE, bt he has changed in this "new lane" of time...

Cougar, could you please either tell me the entire text here or give me a rough placement for where in BENEATH this dialogue is?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Friday, 16 December 2005 10:21 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Lawgiver for Ty....

That's because in the original timeline, the Lawgiver is referred to as a prophet... Line from BENEATH "And grant, in the name of your prophet, our great Lawgiver..."

That’s what I thought – the Lawgiver is seen as a statue but his name is never spoken.  AND they never say “APE SHALL NOT KILL APE!”  ;)

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Friday, 16 December 2005 10:24 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Lawgiver for Ty....TV SERIES

In a message dated 12/15/2005 4:40:23 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

As far as I can recall the LAWGIVER was not mentioned very much at all – if ever – on the TV SHOW.  I know there are mini lawgivers on desks (well on at least), but other than lines that come off much like “Holy Lawgiver Batman!”, I don’t remember much else.

You're correct in that there was no verbal saying of the word Lawgiver on the TV series... But there were mini-statues as you mentioned, so it's obvious that they wanted to at least imply that the TV series apes also follow the Lawgiver's teachings...

Then talk MEGOS dude!  J

Do you collect the “knock off” POTA toys too or just Mehgo?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of merlynpota
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2005 7:54 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The Lawgiver

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@a... wrote:
>
> I get the impression the Lawgiver is viewed mostly as a teacher and
> theologian. He is the moral guide for simian society. Elaine
>


Like Plato or Socrates?? I was thinking more of a
messiah/prophet...but then again I'm no where as knowledgeable as some
of these guys...

Paul

I have a rather large POTA classic toys collection.

Started wanting to just collect MEGOs and PLAYSETS but got out of control!

When I was around 12 my MEGOs snapped (the elastic in them) and my mother bought me a replacement set.  She screwed up and what she actually bought me was the ASTRO APES (from a carnival in Brisbane the call the ECCA).  I had the foresight to keep the cardboard tags on top of the wrappers too!

I know there are 10 basic USA release Megos, but what can you tell us about variations and other knock off lines?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of merlynpota
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2005 8:32 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Mego

Mostly just Mego...but I'm starting to dabble in the AHI (Azrak Hamway
International) Action Apes, and I'm trying to track down a set of
Astroapes...

I'm also building a custom ape army..I'm working my towards 100
SLOWLY...I have two LOL... A correct M tunic soldier ape and an Urko
(no where near correct but looks good...)

I am currently working on one in particular...an Albino ape...again I
know it isn't correct but it will be interesting....

I also have an incorrect Zaius (based on the Aurora models depiction),
Cartoon series Bill, Movie correct Taylor, and a Lawgiver in the works
but none are near completion....

Any one else here collect Mego or other vintage POTA toys??

Neil – I thought you based your illustrations on their style!  J

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2005 9:10 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Lawgiver thoughts

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Alan Maxwell <alan@a...> wrote:
> (Again, while totally non-canon, Adventure Comics did something like
this with their Lawgiver stuff)

-- I had forgotten about the Adventure comic Lawgiver stuff (well
actually I have tried to forget about most of their stuff) Any chance
you could let us know which issues dealt with him? I would go and look
myself but I have buried those comics away so deep that it would take
me forever to find them again! ;-)

Neil

You know, I think ADVENTURE writers, and the writers of the Tim Burton script, might have had a sense of humour….they seem to think the essence of POTA is sloppy writing!  J

Thanks for chiming in Alan.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of llamawaxlen
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2005 9:45 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Lawgiver thoughts

Not only does it contradict the movies, both of these comics
contradict each other as well... UNLESS, as mentioned before, they are
suggesting that more than one ape has carried the title of Lawgiver,
which might be unlikely but certainly isn't impossible.

Cool……Neil, we may find some use for that cover yet!

Hey – any chance you could share that cover with the group?

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2005 10:37 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Mego

In a message dated 12/16/2005 3:49:42 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I know there are 10 basic USA release Megos, but what can you tell us about variations and other knock off lines?

I'll steal his thunder and answer this one...

There are several variants in the Mego line:

The Soldier Ape tunic is available in variants including: Brown, Maroon with sewn on cuffs, "Lizard skin", greyish color (referred to as the "Silver Soldier"), the Silver Soldier is also seen with sewn on cuffs rather than gloves, regular blue color with sewn on cuffs

Zira and Cornelius are found in "Brown" outfits, these looking more like a washed out version of their regular clothes rather than true brown... Zira can also be found without the undersleeves on her top... Cornelius/Galen can be found with either a purple, maroon, or dark brown collar...

Dr. Zaius is found with "blonde" hair as opposed to the regular orange, and sometimes his shirt is found with orange stripes rather than brown... He also can be found with two types of boot: Heirogylphic style or "fishing boots"

The Astronaut can be found in either a navy blue or light blue jumpsuit... There was also one in an almost light purple jumpsuit on eBay a few years back...

Cornelius/Galen can be found with METALLIC green hair!

Urko (helmeted ape) can be found with yellow or mustard colored tunics...

Ursus can be found in all of the variants of the Soldier Ape outfits...

All of them (except Zira) can be found on Type 1 or Type 2 Mego bodies, the Type 2 being much more common for the second wave of figures...

The Azark/AHI Apes knockoffs are called Action Apeman and come in either an Orangutan or a Gorilla (which is sometimes called a Chimp due to his chimp coloration...) These came in various outfits, none of which are POTA looking.. The clothes range from Army camouflage to an almost Safari looking tan outfit... Some of them were packaged with a rifle which is hard to find... The head designs were also released in Australia by TONG, Inc. on better articulated bodies, but with the same style of clothing... These Aussie releases were slightly taller than the US versions...

I’m sure I read an email from Dave Ballard saying you could share it...awww…..C’MON!!!  J

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2005 11:43 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Mego

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
> Cool..Neil, we may find some use for that cover yet!
> Hey - any chance you could share that cover with the group?

-- I'd rather not at the moment until I know what it will eventually
get used for (it was originally painted for Simian Scrolls to be used
for their action figure special but that was shelved)

What I have done though is used a cropped portion of it for the DG
Home Page picture.

Neil

I’ll see what I can find.

I actually gave the 2 I kept to a fellow Aussie a few years back…..I might just ask him what he did with them!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of merlynpota
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2005 12:01 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Mego

Are there pictures in the group here of your toys?? (I haven't had
much of a chance to look at everything yet) I'd be real interested in
seeing a picture of your Astroapes!!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:
>
> I have a rather large POTA classic toys collection.
> 
> Started wanting to just collect MEGOs and PLAYSETS but got out of
> control!
>
> When I was around 12 my MEGOs snapped (the elastic in them) and my
> mother bought me a replacement set.  She screwed up and what she
> actually bought me was the ASTRO APES (from a carnival in Brisbane
the
> call the ECCA).  I had the foresight to keep the cardboard tags on
top
> of the wrappers too!
> 
> I know there are 10 basic USA release Megos, but what can you tell
us
> about variations and other knock off lines?
>
> Michael
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of merlynpota
> Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2005 8:32 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Mego
> 
> Mostly just Mego...but I'm starting to dabble in the AHI (Azrak
Hamway
> International) Action Apes, and I'm trying to track down a set of
> Astroapes...
>
> I'm also building a custom ape army..I'm working my towards 100
> SLOWLY...I have two LOL... A correct M tunic soldier ape and an
Urko
> (no where near correct but looks good...)
>
> I am currently working on one in particular...an Albino ape...again
I
> know it isn't correct but it will be interesting....
>
> I also have an incorrect Zaius (based on the Aurora models
depiction),
> Cartoon series Bill, Movie correct Taylor, and a Lawgiver in the
works
> but none are near completion....
>
> Any one else here collect Mego or other vintage POTA toys??
>
> --
>

That's what friend are for, eh? J

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of merlynpota
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2005 9:11 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Mego

LOL No doubt

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/17/2005 12:26:25 AM Central Standard Time,
> whitty@c... writes:
>
> > I actually gave the 2 I kept to a fellow Aussie a few years
back…..I might
> > just ask him what he did with them!
>
> Get them from him and send one to me, and one to Paul...

Yeah – this is happening in Sydney which is about 250 miles north of me.

I think it is being hyped up a lot but it is kinda frightening.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of LordTZer0@...
Sent: Saturday, 17 December 2005 9:16 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Mego

Yeah – well I had the 5 from the movie.

AND the Astro Apes.

AND the Action Apeman (you know the dudes in military outfits?).

Strangely enough, only a VERY small sample of the toys ever made it to Canberra .  People I have discussed this with say other parts of Australia got a lot of them, but I never did!

So I guess I must have decided “when I grow up I’ll find them and buy them!”.

When I started collecting about 10 years ago, I decided to just get all megos…..then I thought I might as well collect all POTA toys because there are not so many of them!  What an idiot!  There are GAZILLIONS of them and they all cost me an arm and a leg!

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of merlynpota
Sent: Sunday, 18 December 2005 11:25 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Mego

I didn't know the POTA figures even existed when I was little...all I
had was the WGSH...I sold those to get some apes LOL--- In
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John" <DrZaiusDavis@a...> wrote:
>
> I have every Planet of the Apes Mego except the original astro. and
> TV's Burke. I also have the Throne and various pieces, parts from
my
> two tree houses and catapult sets etc., that I've had since I was 2
> years old!
>
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "merlynpota" <merlynpota@y...> wrote:
> >
> > Mostly just Mego...but I'm starting to dabble in the AHI (Azrak
> Hamway
> > International) Action Apes, and I'm trying to track down a set of
> > Astroapes...
> >
> > I'm also building a custom ape army..I'm working my towards 100
> > SLOWLY...I have two LOL... A correct M tunic soldier ape and an
> Urko
> > (no where near correct but looks good...)
> >
> > I am currently working on one in particular...an Albino
ape...again
> I
> > know it isn't correct but it will be interesting....
> >
> > I also have an incorrect Zaius (based on the Aurora models
> depiction),
> > Cartoon series Bill, Movie correct Taylor, and a Lawgiver in the
> works
> > but none are near completion....
> >
> > Any one else here collect Mego or other vintage POTA toys??
> >
>

OK Rory, what was wrong with it?

Just the highlights!  J

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Sunday, 18 December 2005 11:21 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: King Kong 2005 (OT)

In a message dated 12/17/05 11:35:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

In regards to the KONG film, I am not going to give any spoilers away about this movie, but let me just it is an EXCELLENT movie... I hope it lives up to the hype and blows Titanic's ass away as the "highest money making film of all time"... Go see it!!!

I've just seen and guess what?

HATED IT!!!

It wasn't all bad, but too much of it was just wrong, wrong, wrong, but then I knew it would be like this.

Stick with the original.  '33 version still rules.

-- Rory

Thanks.

Wait until you see what MR COMICS have on the way!

I have just seen a few of the coloured pages of Tom Fowler’s and they just get better!

We’ll start uploading them soon…

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of merlynpota
Sent: Sunday, 18 December 2005 11:27 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG

Thats a killer comic...I've made my way about halfway
through....Kudos to all involved...

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
> group.
>
>   File        : /Within the Planet of the Apes/WPOTA 45.gif
>   Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@h...>
>   Description : 
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Within%20the%20Planet%
20of%20the%20Apes/WPOTA%2045.gif
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> munkeyman63au <nfoster@h...>

Is this Bill Blake?

This is my favourite so far….

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
Sent: Sunday, 18 December 2005 8:46 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] New Revolution preview pages uploaded to PotaDG

Neil

“Twelve hundred years ago” comes as close as you would need to Patrick.  That’s just being terribly regimental saying “he would have said 1285 or 1300 years ago”.

1200, as an estimate, is absolutely close enough to 1285.

Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Monday, 19 December 2005 4:04 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Lawgiver for Ty....TV SERIES

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 12/15/2005 9:07:32 PM Central Standard Time,
> whitty@c... writes:
>
> > That's what I thought the Lawgiver is seen as a statue but his
name is never spoken.  AND they never say "APE SHALL NOT KILL
APE!"  ;)
>
> ... And they never said "Ape shall not kill Ape" in PLANET
either... Apes CAN kill other apes in the case of "executions", but
it is against their laws otherwise... (Kind of like our "Thou shalt
not kill", but we execute enemies of the state as well...)
>

*** But they DID mention "Ape shall not kill Ape" in "BENEATH" -- it
is Ursus who mentions this, after Zaius implores him to shoot the
crucified gorillas in the Forbidden Zone.

"I can't order them [his soldiers] to do what the Lawgiver has
forbidden! Ape shall not kill Ape!"

Then the image of the Lawgiver statue appears... probably because the
Mutants over-"heard" Ursus mention the Lawgiver just then!

As for whether or not there are more than one Lawgiver in the POTA
series, hell, in "BATTLE" there are TWO lawgivers: the one portrayed
by John Huston in the First and Last scenes (which take place in 2670
A.D.) and the one portrayed by Roddy MacDowall -- CAESAR.

Teacher "broke the First Law" when he said "No, Aldo, No!" By
uttering the "negative imperative" he violated a LAW. Who INSTITUTED
that law? Just like Stallone as Judge Dredd, Caesar says "I am the
Law. And if I find that he has broken it, I shall pass sentence."

CAESAR WAS THE FIRST 'LAWGIVER'.

When he returned to the Ape City region with Virgil and MacDonald
after his journey to the Forbidden City, Aldo reminds him: "To visit
the City is forbidden!"

Caesar replies, "I know... I forbade it."

As the King of the Ape society, Caesar had the power to set down the
laws that the rest would have to obey -- and which he, as the wearer
of the crown, was somewhat 'above'.

The "most sacred law" of the Apes -- in "BATTLE" -- is that "Ape
shall never kill Ape". Caesar was the one who forbade the killing
(i.e. murdering) of Apes by other Apes. If any LATER 'lawgiver' ALSO
forbade such Ape-on-Ape murder, then it was a RENEWAL of a pre-
existing law.

I hate to have to dredge up this again, but the shoddy math skills of
some fellow Ape-onuts here just begs for it. There are those who
insist that the "BATTLE" Lawgiver is the 'same' Lawgiver
from "PLANET" and "BENEATH", only that he's been 'changed' by the
alterations made by Caesar (etc).

Nonsense.

"PLANET" and "BENEATH" take place in 3955 -- that's the date on the
EARTH-TIME clock before the Tornado-in-the-Sky that begins the
Timewarp the Ape-onauts experience (a voyage that ends with the same
clock ACCURATELY reading "1973").

Taylor asked Zaius, "When were those Sacred Scrolls of yours written?"

Zaius replies, "Twelve hundred years ago."

Or, circa 2755.

If he were talking about the John Huston 'Lawgiver' character, he
would've had to say "Twelve hundred eighty-five years ago" (in order
to be more accurate), or "Thirteen hundred years ago" to be accurate
in an approximation of closest-hundred.

The 1st and Last scenes of "BATTLE" were set in 2670, though, for a
REASON. Dehn wanted the Timeline of POTA to come "full circle". The
opening scene of "PLANET" takes place in the EARTH-TIME year "2673".
This 'nice' Lawgiver was around almost a CENTURY before the writing
of the Human-hating Lawgiver wrote his Sacred Scrolls (and, by having
John Huston play him, they were more-than-implying that this nice
Lawgiver was already an OLD ape, and could not still be around and
writing Ape scriptures 85 years later).

Interestingly enough, there are no gorillas in this nice Lawgiver's
audience. Only chimpanzees, orangutans and humans. No gorillas.

At the same time -- according to Cornelius, in "PLANET" -- there's a
Cave in which, some 1,300 years prior to "PLANET", traces of an early
ape creature in a stage of primitive barbarism left behind "cutting
tools and arrowheads of quartz" -- and the "fossilized bones of
carnivorous gorillas".

We who know our "PLANET" chronology, with the Sacred Scrolls dating
to 1,200 years before and those Carnivorous Gorillas dating back to
1,300 years before -- just a century before the orangutan Lawgiver
wrote the Sacred Scrolls -- should connect-the-dots and see that
there's a connection between the LACK of gorillas in 2670 with the
nice Lawgiver teaching Chimps, Orangs and Humans and the PRESENCE of
Carnivorous Gorillas in that Cave.

After the time of Caesar, at some point, the Gorillas severed their
ties to the Apes-and-Humans society that endeavoured to fulfill
Caesar's hope to Change the Future. The gorillas weren't having
anything to do with them. And, as a result, they reverted to a stage
of PRIMITIVE BARBARISM. Carnivorism. They use tools -- and WEAPONS
(arrowheads, implying arrows, either for use to hunt animals to eat,
and/or for Warfare).

I think that, for a time, Gorillas were looked down upon as being the
equivalent to "the race of Cain" -- due to Aldo having murdered an
ape child. Sure, only ALDO committed the murder... but his 'friends'
just stood by and LET him do it. By not stopping him, they made
themselves accomplices to the deed. Caesar got his retribution
against Aldo... but what about the do-nothing Gorilla friends of his?
Is it likely that they would've escaped the contempt of their fellow
Apes, having just stood by and allowed the atrocity to happen?

To recap: there are at least THREE lawgivers in the POTA saga.

Caesar, the FIRST (and, since he became heirless, last?) King, who
instituted the "First Law" that forbade Humans to say "No" to an
Ape... who forbade going to the Forbidden City... who instituted the
Apes' "most sacred law" that APE SHALL NEVER KILL APE.

The 'nice' Lawgiver who -- circa 2670 -- told a myth-embellished
version of the story of Caesar in "BATTLE ".