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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:26 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Islands on the POTA

In a message dated 1/23/2006 12:20:04 AM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

And what is that under the orangs' chins?

What's under an orang's chin? If you mean what I think you mean, it's on the sides of their heads...

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.html.html In a message dated 1/23/2006 12:28:30 AM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I have no evidence, but I believe the POTA apes are EVOLVED.  Whether through a process of evolution or radiation or genetic manipulation, to me these apes are not supposed to be LANCELOT LINK.
 
Is there any evidence either way on this?


I didn't say they weren't "evolved", but as far as body style, etc. that would still be the same...

The same way that the POTA apes cannot interbreed with each other, they still could not swim either...<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> I have no evidence, but I believe the POTA apes are EVOLVED.

-- I believe I have read or heard a part of an intewrview somewhere
with John Chambers explaining that he did infact go with a
more 'human' look to the apes rather than sticking strictly to how
they do really look because they were meant to be evolved apes.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> That's only because they are portrayed by human actors, BUT they are

still supposed to be "real apes"...

-- This also facinates me. Cougar would you rather they look as they
eventually did in the movies or would you have prefered that they had
been made to look truer to the appearance of real apes?

Neil

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:31 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Islands on the POTA

In a message dated 1/23/2006 12:28:30 AM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I have no evidence, but I believe the POTA apes are EVOLVED.  Whether through a process of evolution or radiation or genetic manipulation, to me these apes are not supposed to be LANCELOT LINK.
 
Is there any evidence either way on this?

I didn't say they weren't "evolved", but as far as body style, etc. that would still be the same...

The same way that the POTA apes cannot interbreed with each other, they still could not swim either...

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.html.html In a message dated 1/23/2006 12:38:49 AM Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

I believe I have read or heard a part of an intewrview somewhere
with John Chambers explaining that he did infact go with a
more 'human' look to the apes rather than sticking strictly to how
they do really look because they were meant to be evolved apes.

He went with the "look" he gave them because he didn't want the audience "grossed out" for 2hrs.

<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/23/2006 12:39:25 AM Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

Would you rather they look as they eventually did in the movies or would you have preferred that they had been made to look truer to the appearance of real apes?


Either would have been fine with me... What we got or "truer" in appearance, just so long as we wouldn't have ended up with a film full of ESCAPE gorillas!!!

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 5:38 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Islands on the POTA

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@a... wrote:
> That's only because they are portrayed by human actors, BUT they are
still supposed to be "real apes"...

-- This also facinates me. Cougar would you rather they look as they
eventually did in the movies or would you have prefered that they had
been made to look truer to the appearance of real apes?

Neil

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> Either would have been fine with me... What we got or "truer" in

appearance

-- Maybe you should watch the 2001 version? ;-)

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> He went with the "look" he gave them because he didn't want the

audience "grossed out" for 2hrs.

-- Yes I remember him saying that but I also remember him also saying
that they were meant to look evolved.

Neil

.html.html In a message dated 1/23/2006 12:56:16 AM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

My take is that Boulle apes ARE apes - but they "speak" and they wear human clothes.
 
The "ape" humans - imitate humans - but have no sense of individuality beyond that....they are not developing into anything but what the humans were because they lack that uniqueness (creativity?).


Well, isn't this what the apes in PLANET were until Dehn and company "took over" and got the other sh*t going?<.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@a... wrote:

> Well, isn't this what the apes in PLANET were until Dehn and

company "took over" and got the other sh*t going?

-- No not really, after all they had things like their own religion
didn't they and they weren't just 'aping' a human religion, they had
their own art amongst other things as well.

Neil

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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> My take is that Boulle apes ARE apes - but they "speak" and they

wear human clothes.

> They "ape" humans - imitate humans - but have no sense of

individuality beyond that....they are not developing into anything but
what the humans were because they lack that uniqueness (creativity?).

> However I see the POTA apes as something different.

-- I agree 100%.

Neil

.html.html In a message dated 1/23/2006 1:08:06 AM Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- No not really, after all they had things like their own religion
didn't they and they weren't just 'aping' a human religion, they had
their own art amongst other things as well.

Yeah, but they "aped" the CONCEPT of religion... And they "aped" the concept of art... They put their own twist on it, but it all came from their human predecessors...

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.html.html They only did the matte shots that way to match the sets that they were able to use to simulate an "ancient" city...<.html<.html

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In a message dated 1/22/2006 7:09:26 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I think one should try to improve on the TV series.  The TV show really wasn't that good.

 

While television isn't that expensive compared to films, it all relative.

you don't have top stars, but you have television stars, and they think

they are worth every penny that a film star gets.  If they've done a film

than doubly so. You don't have to grease the wheels of the giant publicity

and advertising machines, but you do have to practically bribe the network

to promote the product and woo sponsors.  You don't have the costs that

are associated with film, but you do have to keep the quality up to broadcast

standards, and you have to do it on a weekly basis.  So it's not cheap.  It's

only cheap when compared to film.  It's like the movie The Producers.  It isn't

bad.  Unless you compare it to the play, or to the original film.

 

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In a message dated 1/22/2006 7:21:09 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Apes don't swim.  And as far as them going out in boats, I'll stick with what Zira said about flight in PLANET, "Where would it get you?"

 

I have to agree.  the apes' thinking is narrow because of the way they're taught.  Not much creativity or imagination encouraged there.  That was the way the Japanese were for the longest time.  Lots of innovation, not much invention.  That's because the nail that sticks up gets hammered down, and I suspect the same with the apes too.  In shop class in America they teach you carpentry, and say, okay!  Build something.  In Japan, they show you how to build a chair, and say, now build a chair.

 

 

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In a message dated 1/22/2006 7:33:29 P.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

The three Mad Max movies were better than BATTLE

 

I'd put the last one as the Battle of the Max series.

 

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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> Me too!

-- I don't think MM3 was too bad myself. Some of the visuals were
wonderful - the 747 wreck in the desert, the ruined cityscape of
Sydney at the end etc.
Plus my mother in law was an extra in it!

Neil

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.html.html In a message dated 1/22/06 9:27:49 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Well said, but hear us out on some of the decisions we made!

You had a car in the street.  You think after a thousand plus years a parked car would still be there?  More like a pile of rust!  A very small pile.

-- Rory
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.html.html In a message dated 1/23/06 2:08:06 AM Eastern Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- No not really, after all they had things like their own religion
didn't they and they weren't just 'aping' a human religion, they had
their own art amongst other things as well.

Neil

Apeing something doesn't mean you exactly copy it.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/23/06 1:31:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

I mean the males have a big bib of.....well....FAT?

We start arguing about San Francisco in a thousand years and now we're fighting about apes body fat?!!!!

This is a riot!!!!<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/23/06 2:20:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

They only did the matte shots that way to match the sets that they were able to use to simulate an "ancient" city...

Yeah, they only had a little budget to work with, and besides....

the TV show SUCKED!  The concept, the look of it, EVERYTHING!

Don't "ape" it, Mike and Neil!   DO IT BETTER!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/23/06 4:10:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

That's why we make such a great couple….I mean team!  ;)

What's next from you guys?  Castaway apes on an island?  You could call it "Galen's Island"!!!!  :)

-- Rory<.html <.html

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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> My mother in law is a kangaroo!

-- No seriously, she was in Mad Max 3.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

> That's why we make such a great couple..I mean team! ;)

-- Oh dear, cue Col. Taylor! ;-)

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> Apeing something doesn't mean you exactly copy it.

--It does in the dictionary I use!

'Imitate uncritically and in every aspect'
'Copy the words or behavior of another'

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> We start arguing about San Francisco in a thousand years and now

we're fighting about apes body fat?!!!!

> This is a riot!!!!

-- Arguing? I thought we were discussing things and as in any
discussion people will have differing points of view.

Besides if it's an argument you want you've come to the wrong
room... ;-)

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> You had a car in the street. You think after a thousand plus years

a parked car would still be there? More like a pile of rust! A very
small pile.

-- That is if it has in fact been on that street for over a thousand
years!.. Hmmm...

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> What's next from you guys? Castaway apes on an island? You could

call it "Galen's Island"!!!! :)

-- Excellent idea Rory, we can work the Ape Viking ships into that
story, thanks!! ;-)

Neil

Attachments :

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Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Going Home/GH Pencils & Text/wmTV page 05 (pencils).jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
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Regards,

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In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:08:24 A.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- I don't think MM3 was too bad myself. Some of the visuals were
wonderful - the 747 wreck in the desert, the ruined cityscape of
Sydney at the end etc.

 

If Tim Burton's POTA has taught us anything

it's that cool visuals do NOT a good movie make.

 

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In a message dated 1/23/2006 3:01:05 P.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

-- No seriously, she was in Mad Max 3.

But the car wasn't.

And the car is the real star of those movies.

 

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In a message dated 1/23/2006 7:23:27 A.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

More like a pile of rust!  A very small pile.

 

1 of steel rusted weighs 3 tons.

 

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Anthony B. McElveen
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 9:01 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG

Radiation from the bombs would've sterilised the area, killing any bacteria or insects that would normally attack the components of the doll. It could last forever buried in dry dirt, protected from the sun and the elements like the artifacts found in the Egyptian burial chambers.

On Jan 23, 2006, at 2:18 p.m., Michael Whitty wrote:

That’s precisely what I said.

But your precious “Planet” seems to have a SIMILAR problem with a certain DOLLY that must be a fossil otherwise it would have been all dirt.

So I guess if Wilson and Serling did it, I can!  ;)

Don’t you think Rory?

Michael

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> Cool - now make a case for the car! :)

-- I already did - what if it hasn't actually been there for a
thousand years? Maybe just since their petrol supply ran out and who
knows when that could have been.

Neil

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:11 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:
> Cool - now make a case for the car!  :)

-- I already did - what if it hasn't actually been there for a
thousand years? Maybe just since their petrol supply ran out and who
knows when that could have been.

Neil

.html.html In a message dated 1/23/06 3:23:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

But your precious "Planet" seems to have a SIMILAR problem with a certain DOLLY that must be a fossil otherwise it would have been all dirt.

So I guess if Wilson and Serling did it, I can!  ;)



Don't you think Rory?

Michael



I don't think the doll would be fossilized, but it would probably be in a lot worse shape than seen in the movie.

But, what are you saying?  Because they make a mistake, you'll go right ahead and do the same?  Even if you know better?!!

That makes no sense!

-- Rory<.html <.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:49 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG

In a message dated 1/23/06 3:23:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

But your precious "Planet" seems to have a SIMILAR problem with a certain DOLLY that must be a fossil otherwise it would have been all dirt.

So I guess if Wilson and Serling did it, I can!  ;)



Don't you think Rory?

Michael

I don't think the doll would be fossilized, but it would probably be in a lot worse shape than seen in the movie.

But, what are you saying?  Because they make a mistake, you'll go right ahead and do the same?  Even if you know better?!!

That makes no sense!

-- Rory

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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 1/19/06 11:56:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
>
>
> > Hey - I thought you hated these kinds of posts!
> >
> > You must be in a more cheery mood today! ;)
> >
> > Did you see Neil's photo of the boats? I DIDN'T SEE VIKINGS, BUT

I SAW BOATS!!! :)

> >
>
> Yeah. Did I ever say the apes didn't have boats? But, whatever...

I'm not going to continue arguing over the stupid TV show!

>
> It just amazes me how many APES fans don't understand Boulle's

book, and now it turns out even Patrick doesn't!

>
> In Boulle's novel the ape revolution happened 10,000 years in the

past, and there had been not technological progress in all that
time. Why? Because the apes were mere imitators. They took over
the human society and merely "aped" it. There was no invention on
their part.

>
> It should also be remembered that in the first episode of the TV

show we see that Zaius has some human books. Why not then couldn't
others of had maps as well and merely imitated what they saw? They
would put on the maps human towns and cities that weren't there
anymore. Anyway, I'm not going to argue the stupid TV show. If you
want to believe the apes set sail in boats to map the islands off the
coast of what was California, hey... whatever turns you on.

>

*** Rory, when you bring Boulle into the mix on a discussion of the
filmed POTA movies and TV show, it's all irrelevant! Boulle's novel
is what it is: the original story with its own backstory (etc) upon
which the 1st movie was LOOSELY based. It doesn't matter what Boulle
did in his novel regarding the "aping" of the apes -- the movie kept
only so much of Boulle's source material and ALTERED everything else,
including the whole notion of how the apes ascended. In Boulle there
was no Nuke War -- but in the movie, there WAS. In Boulle, the Apes
do not HATE the human race, they merely have exchanged places with
them -- but in the movie, the Apes DO hate Man: a view ultimately
deriving from the little-known fact that Man destroyed his own
civilization and DESERVES to be kept in a state of harmless
barbarism, living like an animal.

POTA (the movie) owes just as much -- if not more -- to Huxley's
book "APE AND ESSENCE" as it does to Boulle. The basic plot, though,
stems from Boulle: an Earthman astronaut traveling to an 'alien'
planet ruled by Apes who had taken over from a forgotten ancient
human civilization (revealed in the findings of Cornelius at his dig
site).

Understanding Boulle's book is easy, Rory. And why can't you
understand that it is a DIFFERENT entity than the derived movie
version and its sequels? The POTA productions were "based" on Boulle;
they were NOT "faithfully adapted" from his work. APJAC left Boulle
behind, and it was merely legal necessity that got them to put that
tag on the credits: "Based on PLANET OF THE APES by Pierre Boulle",
etc.

Boulle himself would've recognized precious little of his own source
novel in ANY of the filmed POTA stories.

Patrick

When did I ever say that the Apes in POTA "get across the world",
Mike? The Apes in my own POTA scenario merely get across the
continent of North America, from the California region (CONQUEST,
BATTLE and the TV show) to the New York/New Jersey region (PLANET &
BENEATH).

Unless you're talking about the short era of Ape Slavery, when human
slave ships ship cargo from Borneo and French Cameroons to Breck's
city. You know... Shipment 5-07 I-for-Indonesia ex Borneo and
Shipment 5-09 A-for-Africa ex French Cameroons. But that's not Apes
using Ape boats.

The POTA apes must have boats, since Cornelius mentions them in
PLANET: "... and we had no BOATS on our last expedition..."

If he'd HAD boats on his last expedition, a year before PLANET takes
place, then he would've been able to get to the dig site by riding
down that river to the Sea (the Ocean), rather than by the horse-and-
wagon method that they use in PLANET. Also, with boats at his
disposal during that last expedition, Cornelius would've had the
opportunity to sail along the ocean's coast... and he then would've
been able to discover the Statue of Liberty. Then he could've said to
Zaius that MAYBE the human doll doesn't prove that Man was once
superior (that is, unless it talks...) -- but the existence of that
huge statue with a HUMAN face does prove it.

But Cornelius didn't know about the Statue -- because he hadn't had a
boat to use to go further along the shoreline. He didn't go that far
because the TIDES cover that thin stretch of beach during HIGH TIDE,
and his fear of being caught in the tidal waters is what kept him
from riding too far along that shoreline himself during his last
expedition.

Incidentally, this is yet more proof that Taylor and Nova didn't have
to ride hundreds of miles along the shore in order to discover the
Statue. If the HIGH TIDE swamps that stretch of beach on a periodic
basis, then they had to have trotted out to it in less time than it
takes for high tide to happen -- and the interval between two
successive high tides is only 12 hours 25 minutes: almost twice per
day, slightly less because the Earth-Moon pair revolve around the
Sun. The high tide is caused by the mutual gravitational pull of both
the Moon and the Sun, and the ellipsoid bulges on the sides of the
Earth nearest and furthest from the Moon follow the mutual orbital
path of the Earth-Moon system as they both orbit the Sun.

We don't know when the last High Tide was prior to the shot of Taylor
shaving off his beard, so we can't know how much time they have until
the next High Tide -- but it can be no later than about 12 hours in
the future. The Statue is close enough to be ridden to on a horse
between two successive High Tides: 12 hr 25 min.

Which proves that Cornelius' Cave is not in Virginia, Rory's map-
explanation notwithstanding. The high tides prove it can't be so far
away from the Statue.

Patrick

P.S. Before Rory launches into me with another slagfest, let me just
say that I like his scan-&-paste pics of the BENEATH poster and the
Radio Spots thing he did (seen at the old site). Nice work.


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael"
<Michael.Whitty@d...> wrote:

>
> No - I wasn't saying they get across the world...that was PATRICK!
>
> I was saying they have BOATS!
>
> And do they swim - who knows? They TALK dude! ;)
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
>> In a message dated 1/22/06 8:23:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Michael.Whitty@d... writes:
>>
> So what were the boats in PLANET for, silly boy?
>
> Michael
>>
> Those little canoes? They weren't for finding the New World, silly

Aussie BOY! Just getting across that pond! And just because an ape
has a boat doesn't mean it takes a swim!

>
> -- Rory

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@c...> wrote:

>
> They had their own culture - they had evolved, not aped.
>
> Michael

*** When Taylor asks Cornelius and Zira to come along with him and
Nova, Cornelius says that he had helped prove their innocence... and,
besides, "his culture is our culture".

A certain amount of that culture was due to the Apes having kept
remnants of the long-dead human culture (including the use of the
English language, and certain phrases like "Human See, Human Do"
modified from the original)... but there had to have been original
notions added to the mix by the Apes.

After all, the "insidious theory of Evolution" that Cornelius and
other so-called "perverted scientists" have cooked up had to have
been a recent element. Honorius refers to the proponents of this
heretical theory as "certain YOUNG cynics". The word YOUNG implies
that it is a NEW idea, challenging the old dogmas and doctrines of
the ruling class. Cornelius didn't dust off an old theory that had
survived from "ancient" times -- he had REDISCOVERED the notion, and
even named it "Evolution", too (rather than calling it something
similar in meaning, like "Developmentation" or "Morphodynamism").

Perhaps the word "evolution" had been perpetuated by the Apes, but in
reference to other types of "change" -- such as the changes in
temperature throughout the Day-Night cycle or Summer-Winter cycle. Or
changes in Art styles. Or changes during the life-cycles of animals
like a caterpillar-chrysalis-butterfly. Cornelius' use of the word
would then be a radical application: applying it to the emergence of
whole new species through some natural process (like
Darwinian "Natural Selection") -- an idea that is considered
heretical because the First Article of Faith insists that God created
the Ape in His own image.

Patrick

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That's okay. Say, we're all forgetting MARVEL's
"Future History Chronicles" -- in the first of which
["CITY OF NOMADS"] the Apes have this huuuuuge
"cityship" in which they traverse the very oceans,
with enslaved humans doing the Ben-Hur-like rowing.
Sure, the stories aren't "canon" necessarily, but it
is a different depiction of POTA apes regarding Water.
Perhaps an Ape who is raised in a society that
utilizes boats and cityships to a great extent would
not be averse to water. Galen, in the TV show, might
be afraid of water because he was never exposed to the
possibilities of sailing (etc). Central City was a
land-locked area (at least, according to Urko's
wallmap), so if Galen spent his whole life there he
wouldn't have much opportunity to get to know the life
of a mariner.

Come to think of it, in MARVEL's "Terror on the POTA"
series, a gorilla named Gunpowder Julius is part of a
"riverboat" society, with his human partner Steely Dan
onboard the SIMIAN. Who says that ALL of the apes are
hydrophobic???

Patrick


--- Michael Whitty <whitty@...> wrote:

> Sorry Patrick - I was really just explaining that I

never said that..sorry if you never did either!

>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> When did I ever say that the Apes in POTA "get

across the world", Mike? The Apes in my own POTA
scenario merely get across the continent of North
America, from the California region (CONQUEST, BATTLE
and the TV show) to the New York/New Jersey region
(PLANET & BENEATH).

>

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/06 2:17:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** Rory, when you bring Boulle into the mix on a discussion of the
filmed POTA movies and TV show, it's all irrelevant! Boulle's novel
is what it is: the original story with its own backstory (etc) upon
which the 1st movie was LOOSELY based. It doesn't matter what Boulle
did in his novel regarding the "aping" of the apes -- the movie kept
only so much of Boulle's source material and ALTERED everything else,
including the whole notion of how the apes ascended. In Boulle there
was no Nuke War -- but in the movie, there WAS. In Boulle, the Apes
do not HATE the human race, they merely have exchanged places with
them -- but in the movie, the Apes DO hate Man: a view ultimately
deriving from the little-known fact that Man destroyed his own
civilization and DESERVES to be kept in a state of harmless
barbarism, living like an animal.

POTA (the movie) owes just as much -- if not more -- to Huxley's
book "APE AND ESSENCE" as it does to Boulle. The basic plot, though,
stems from Boulle: an Earthman astronaut traveling to an 'alien'
planet ruled by Apes who had taken over from a forgotten ancient
human civilization (revealed in the findings of Cornelius at his dig
site).

Understanding Boulle's book is easy, Rory. And why can't you
understand that it is a DIFFERENT entity than the derived movie
version and its sequels? The POTA productions were "based" on Boulle;
they were NOT "faithfully adapted" from his work. APJAC left Boulle
behind, and it was merely legal necessity that got them to put that
tag on the credits: "Based on PLANET OF THE APES by Pierre Boulle",
etc.

Boulle himself would've recognized precious little of his own source
novel in ANY of the filmed POTA stories.

Patrick

<.html<.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/06 2:39:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Which proves that Cornelius' Cave is not in Virginia, Rory's map-
explanation notwithstanding. The high tides prove it can't be so far
away from the Statue.

Patrick

Yeah, and the dead sea is only a few miles inland and the ape's greenbelts are only a few miles further than that, and only a few thousand acres -- which OF COURSE have supported the life there for 2000 years!

Phooey!  It's all much larger than you think, Patrick.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/06 7:12:53 AM Eastern Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Rory?  Why are you doing so much for those guys?  Would you treat us nicer if we go all goofy and place you on moderation? 

J





Because there's someone there putting together a CD I want to get.  And I enjoy making those covers.

Merge the two groups!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/06 2:17:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

*** Rory, when you bring Boulle into the mix on a discussion of the
filmed POTA movies and TV show, it's all irrelevant! Boulle's novel
is what it is: the original story with its own backstory (etc) upon
which the 1st movie was LOOSELY based. It doesn't matter what Boulle
did in his novel regarding the "aping" of the apes -- the movie kept
only so much of Boulle's source material and ALTERED everything else,
including the whole notion of how the apes ascended. In Boulle there
was no Nuke War -- but in the movie, there WAS. In Boulle, the Apes
do not HATE the human race, they merely have exchanged places with
them -- but in the movie, the Apes DO hate Man: a view ultimately
deriving from the little-known fact that Man destroyed his own
civilization and DESERVES to be kept in a state of harmless
barbarism, living like an animal.

POTA (the movie) owes just as much -- if not more -- to Huxley's
book "APE AND ESSENCE" as it does to Boulle. The basic plot, though,
stems from Boulle: an Earthman astronaut traveling to an 'alien'
planet ruled by Apes who had taken over from a forgotten ancient
human civilization (revealed in the findings of Cornelius at his dig
site).

Understanding Boulle's book is easy, Rory. And why can't you
understand that it is a DIFFERENT entity than the derived movie
version and its sequels? The POTA productions were "based" on Boulle;
they were NOT "faithfully adapted" from his work. APJAC left Boulle
behind, and it was merely legal necessity that got them to put that
tag on the credits: "Based on PLANET OF THE APES by Pierre Boulle",
etc.

Boulle himself would've recognized precious little of his own source
novel in ANY of the filmed POTA stories.

Patrick

I love the psychology you display here, Patrick.  That of the rapist!  In this case, the literary rapist, laying the ground for your continued BASTARDIZATION of Boulle's original concept.  You and Fox are EVIL!  DISRESPECTORS!!!!!

Boulle's novel is THE literary standard as to what's good about POTA.  The original film is the cinematic standard as to what's good about POTA.  The sequels, TV show, cartoons and comics are ALL basically "crap fests"!

Nuff said.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/06 11:54:08 AM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

That's okay. Say, we're all forgetting MARVEL's
"Future History Chronicles"

We all should forget that crap!

-- Rory<.html <.html

Attachments :

.html <.html

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Going Home/GH Pencils & Text/wmTV page 06 (pencils).jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>
Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Going%20Home/GH%20Pencils%20%26%20Text/wmTV%20page%2006%20%28pencils%29.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

munkeyman63au <nfoster@...>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@a... wrote:

> Merge the two groups!

-- Sigh, remember once we were a united group of fans and everything
was very rosey until someone left like a theif in the night taking
members and files with him. But lets not go dragging all that shit up
again.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:

> I suppose nearly everyone else in the group has seen the first 10

pages so they have already commented, but it is a bit disturbing that
so few people are actually discussing these pages.....

-- Maybe nobody wants to be bothered with pages that they have (sort
of) already seen and I can understand that if it is the case. I know I
love to see original pencils but maybe that is just an 'artist thing'.

How about we just skip to the pages that haven't been seen yet? would
that be preferable?

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 10:19 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
wrote:
> I suppose nearly everyone else in the group has seen the first 10
pages so they have already commented, but it is a bit disturbing that
so few people are actually discussing these pages.....

-- Maybe nobody wants to be bothered with pages that they have (sort
of) already seen and I can understand that if it is the case. I know I
love to see original pencils but maybe that is just an 'artist thing'.

How about we just skip to the pages that haven't been seen yet? would
that be preferable?

Neil

<.html

Hey T have you recieved your copy of the Revolution on the POTA comic
yet?

Neil

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 10:40 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] RevoluTion comic

Hey T have you recieved your copy of the Revolution on the POTA comic
yet?

Neil

.html.html Study shows chimps closer to humans than to apes
Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:15 AM GMT

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Chimpanzees may be more closely related to human beings than they are to other apes, U.S. researchers reported on Monday. And a second, separate study showed that humans are busily pushing another close cousin, the orangutan, into extinction. Both shed light on the complex and often unhappy relationships between humans and our closest relatives, the great apes.

Writing in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, scientists at the Georgia Institute of Technology said they found genetic evidence that chimpanzees may be more closely related to humans than to gorillas and orangutans. Soojin Yi and colleagues looked at mutations in the so-called molecular clock, using the mutation rate in DNA. "Intriguingly, both humans and chimpanzees appear to have evolved slower than gorillas and orangutans," they wrote in their report. Experts have long known that humans and chimps share much DNA, and are in fact 96 percent identical on the genetic level. Yi's team looked at several specific genes and compared the difference between human and chimpanzee. One very noticeable difference is the longer generation time of humans.

"Humans take almost twice as long to reach sexual maturity as chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) and gorillas (Gorilla gorillas), have a longer lifespan, and have a longer gestation period as compared to any nonhuman hominoid," the researchers wrote. Their molecular clock suggests humans evolved this trait just a million years ago. Humans and chimpanzees are believed to have diverged from a single common ancestor about 7 million years ago. "For the first time, we've shown that the difference in the rate of molecular evolution between humans and chimpanzees is very small, but significant, suggesting that the evolution of human-specific life history traits is very recent," Yi said in a statement. While humans are closely related to the great apes, they are driving many populations of chimpanzees, gorillas and orangutans into extinction.

Writing in the journal Public Library of Science Biology, Benoit Goossens of Cardiff University and colleagues said their genetic study of orangutans showed a recent catastrophic collapse in genetic diversity. "This is the first time that a recent and alarming decline of a great ape population -- brought about by man -- has been demonstrated, dated, and quantified using genetic information," Goossens said in a statement. They collected hair and faeces samples and documented 200 individuals living in the forests of Malaysia's Sabah state. The genetic pattern suggested that was many fewer animals than in the past."  The genetic study shows that there is a high risk of extinction of the orangutan in Sabah in the near future if this decline goes on unabated," said Marc Ancrenaz of the Kinabatangan Orangutan Conservation Project in Sandakan, Malaysia, who also worked on the study.  "The major threat to the long-term survival of orangutans in Sabah is linked with oil palm plantation development and forest destruction. Illegal killing also contributes to this decline."










































<.html<.html

Attachments :

.html.html Here's a photo of what the cover for the PLANET OF THE APES: THE LEGACY COLLECTION is going to look like, a definite improvement over the Statue of Liberty spoiler cover from the original release.



I've decided I'm NOT going to get the ULTIMATE EDITION.  I've canceled my pre-order at Amazon.  I don't really want to have to buy the TV series again, and I especially can't stomach getting POTA 2001 again -- I'll never watch it!  As for the collector's Caesar head... well... who needs it?  If it were Dr. Zaius that would be one thing, but Caesar from CONQUEST?  No, I can live without it, and since the cartoon series is going to be sold separately, why spend all that extra money?  I've just pre-ordered the Legacy set and the cartoon series.

-- Rory <.html<.html

.html.html I've just read that the POTA: Ultimate DVD Collection, with bust of Caesar, will be limited to 10,000 units.

OK, who here thinks that Fox will sell 10,000 of these?

Who here thinks that in less than a year Fox will have like 9,900 of these for sale at a deep discount?

-- Rory<.html<.html

Attachments :

.html

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: None
Subject:

Here's a photo of what the cover for the PLANET OF THE APES: THE LEGACY COLLECTION is going to look like, a definite improvement over the Statue of Liberty spoiler cover from the original release.



I've decided I'm NOT going to get the ULTIMATE EDITION.  I've canceled my pre-order at Amazon.  I don't really want to have to buy the TV series again, and I especially can't stomach getting POTA 2001 again -- I'll never watch it!  As for the collector's Caesar head... well... who needs it?  If it were Dr. Zaius that would be one thing, but Caesar from CONQUEST?  No, I can live without it, and since the cartoon series is going to be sold separately, why spend all that extra money?  I've just pre-ordered the Legacy set and the cartoon series.

-- Rory

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:11 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com; pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] POTA: Ultimate DVD Collection

I've just read that the POTA: Ultimate DVD Collection, with bust of Caesar, will be limited to 10,000 units.

OK, who here thinks that Fox will sell 10,000 of these?

Who here thinks that in less than a year Fox will have like 9,900 of these for sale at a deep discount?

-- Rory

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/06 8:15:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Who is that - Corn or Caesar?

It's Caesar, but it should be the PLANET Zaius, damn it all to hell!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 12:17 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Legacy Set Cover

In a message dated 1/24/06 8:15:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Who is that - Corn or Caesar?

It's Caesar, but it should be the PLANET Zaius, damn it all to hell!

-- Rory

<.html

.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/2006 1:38:58 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Because there's someone there putting together a CD I want to get.  And I enjoy making those covers.

Ummm... There's someone right here that is working in conjunction with that "someone over there" that's trying to get the CD compiled too ya know... Or have you forgotten the posts that I did in regards to this subject?<.html <.html

.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/2006 7:42:26 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

What's the deal with Conquest Caesar being all over everything?
 
My guess is that FOX is up to something with CONQUEST.....


It has nothing to do with CONQUEST and everything to do with the fact that they can't tell one chimp from another...<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 1:48 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Legacy Set Cover

In a message dated 1/24/2006 7:42:26 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

What's the deal with Conquest Caesar being all over everything?
 
My guess is that FOX is up to something with CONQUEST.....

It has nothing to do with CONQUEST and everything to do with the fact that they can't tell one chimp from another...

.html.html Burke looks stoned or drunk!<.html<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 1:42 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Going Home (original pencils & text) 06

Burke looks stoned or drunk!

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 1:39 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Radio Spots?

In a message dated 1/24/2006 1:38:58 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Because there's someone there putting together a CD I want to get.  And I enjoy making those covers.

Ummm... There's someone right here that is working in conjunction with that "someone over there" that's trying to get the CD compiled too ya know... Or have you forgotten the posts that I did in regards to this subject?

<.html

No! I'd like to see the pencils, please.

On Jan 24, 2006, at 5:19 p.m., Neil wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Whitty, Michael" <Michael.Whitty@d...>
> wrote:
>> I suppose nearly everyone else in the group has seen the first 10
> pages so they have already commented, but it is a bit disturbing that
> so few people are actually discussing these pages.....
>
> -- Maybe nobody wants to be bothered with pages that they have (sort
> of) already seen and I can understand that if it is the case. I know I
> love to see original pencils but maybe that is just an 'artist thing'.
>
> How about we just skip to the pages that haven't been seen yet? would
> that be preferable?
>
> Neil

.html

Reminder from the Calendar of PotaDG Gregory Sierra's Birthday Wednesday January 25, 2006 All Day This event repeats every year. Notes: Happy Birthday Gregory! Yahoo! Greetings Send a Yahoo! Greeting Find Gifts Browse Yahoo! Shopping's Gift Guide

Copyright ©  2006  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved.

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/06 8:21:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

With word that PALISADES has gone belly up, I am VERY concerned about the state of the franchise.

Blame it all on that lousy 2001 movie!  And I don't mean the Odyssey one!<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 3:53 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The state of the franchise of the Planet of the Apes

In a message dated 1/24/06 8:21:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

With word that PALISADES has gone belly up, I am VERY concerned about the state of the franchise.

Blame it all on that lousy 2001 movie!  And I don't mean the Odyssey one!

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/06 8:42:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

What's the deal with Conquest Caesar being all over everything?

My guess is that FOX is up to something with CONQUEST.....

Michael


No, my guess is that Roddy McDowall made a deal with them before he died.

You'll notice on the box covers now for PLANET that both Charlton Heston and Roddy McDowall's names are above the title.  It used to be only Heston.  I think maybe giving McDowall above the title credit for all future presentations of PLANET was a way to get his cooperation for the 30th Anniversary stuff, hosting the Behind documentary and allowing the use of his home movies, and I'm sure McDowall wanted to make sure he'd always be remembered for APES.  So now his ape puss is all over everything and they're selling his head.  Good for him.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/06 9:31:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, tshaf37@... writes:

Well, here in Jerkwater, USA. Err... I mean Pittsburgh, we can't get that kind of thing? There isn't a lot of demand for it. I want to 4 of the 5 comic book stores, 3 haven't heard of it, 1 doesn't have it and the other place is such a rip off I won't go into it. By the way, Go Steelers

I got an idea... why doesn't someone who has just posts scans of it!  Good idea, eh?

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/06 9:46:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Ummm... There's someone right here that is working in conjunction with that "someone over there" that's trying to get the CD compiled too ya know... Or have you forgotten the posts that I did in regards to this subject?

I can't forget something I wasn't paying any attention too.  Anyway, let's see who gets this out first!  No matter what the case is, I've made a cover for it!  So there! :P

<.html<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 4:11 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: RevoluTion comic

In a message dated 1/24/06 9:31:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, tshaf37@... writes:

Well, here in Jerkwater, USA. Err... I mean Pittsburgh, we can't get that kind of thing? There isn't a lot of demand for it. I want to 4 of the 5 comic book stores, 3 haven't heard of it, 1 doesn't have it and the other place is such a rip off I won't go into it. By the way, Go Steelers

I got an idea... why doesn't someone who has just posts scans of it!  Good idea, eh?

-- Rory

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/2006 9:19:49 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

to merge the groups you just leave one of them.
 

I left the other one when my posts became "unpostable" but the guy I was replying to seemed to have free reign...
<.html<.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/2006 11:15:51 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Anyway, let's see who gets this out first!  No matter what the case is, I've made a cover for it!  So there! :P


It had better be the same guy that I was working with to get this sh*t compiled to begin with or i am gonna be PISSED!!!!!!<.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 4:35 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Radio Spots?

In a message dated 1/24/2006 9:19:49 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

to merge the groups you just leave one of them.
 

I left the other one when my posts became "unpostable" but the guy I was replying to seemed to have free reign...

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 4:40 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Radio Spots?

In a message dated 1/24/2006 11:15:51 PM Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

Anyway, let's see who gets this out first!  No matter what the case is, I've made a cover for it!  So there! :P

It had better be the same guy that I was working with to get this sh*t compiled to begin with or i am gonna be PISSED!!!!!!

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 3:59 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Legacy Set Cover

In a message dated 1/24/06 8:42:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

What's the deal with Conquest Caesar being all over everything?

My guess is that FOX is up to something with CONQUEST.....

Michael

No, my guess is that Roddy McDowall made a deal with them before he died.

You'll notice on the box covers now for PLANET that both Charlton Heston and Roddy McDowall's names are above the title.  It used to be only Heston.  I think maybe giving McDowall above the title credit for all future presentations of PLANET was a way to get his cooperation for the 30th Anniversary stuff, hosting the Behind documentary and allowing the use of his home movies, and I'm sure McDowall wanted to make sure he'd always be remembered for APES.  So now his ape puss is all over everything and they're selling his head.  Good for him.

-- Rory

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 1/24/2006 11:46:05 PM Central Standard Time, Michael.Whitty@... writes:

Also, are you going to stipulate that, because of your involvement, the result must be shared and not exclusive to one group?


Well, I was trying to drum up as much as I could on this group, and he on the other one... As far as "group exclusivity" it was never discussed between us, only to the point of whoever could/would provide anything to add to it (or that could point us in the direction of a definite source) would get a free CD for their help... But yeah, I'd say that because I am trying to keep this thing going on this group, it won't be exclusive to the other group if I have any say about it...<.html <.html

.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 1/24/2006 5:42:16 P.M. Central Standard Time, nfoster@... writes:

Hey T have you recieved your copy of the Revolution on the POTA comic
yet?

 

Yes, but I haven't read it yet.

I flipped through it, and it looked pretty cool.

I'm also trying to read three books.  But now

that the semester has started I don't even

know if I'll have time to finish the comic book.

 

<.html