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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2006 11:18 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Marvel UK issue 96

It’s an overload!  J

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2006 11:23 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Speciesism?

Zira’s statements were incredibly racist/”speciesist” if you ask me.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2006 11:24 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] 00-what?

Did James send you that?!?!?  J

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2006 11:27 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Amazons...

No....it’s not working..... ..   ;)

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2006 11:45 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG

maybe Apemania could come down and migle with the
girls....just as long as it doesn't get all "Playmate
of the Apes"....yeech. ....
say hey to Mandy for me....and Tiffany..... . and
Amber...and Desiree...and Chocolate... ....etc.. .......

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In a message dated 8/16/06 3:50:50 PM Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- She did seem to be more fond of humans that your average ape though.

She didn't give a flip about humans as anything other than animals... She only warmed up to Taylor because of his intelligence which she thought she could use to advance her studies... (Until he went and ruined everything by talking...)

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In a message dated 8/16/06 11:57:13 AM Central Daylight Time, TZer0@... writes:

But I can't think of any statement she made that was false. Can you? 

"Gorillas are cruel because they're stupid. All bone and no brain"...

 

Is Ursus stupid? Doesn't look that way to me... (He is in the fact that he's a warhawk, but that's just a matter of opinion... He couldn't have achieved rank of general by being moronic...)

 

"At least our child when it's born won't be breast fed on bile."

 

Again, she is generalizing that all gorillas are that way from their birth and they're raised that way.. If say Zako from the TV series was so "brainwashed" by his upbringing, then he certainly wouldn't have made a deal with them to get Urko and Burke out... He also wouldn't have had enough of a conscious to go against Urko's command to kill them, even though he had made a deal with Galen and Virdon...

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In a message dated 8/16/2006 8:47:10 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mlccougar@... writes:

"At least our child when it's born won't be breast fed on bile."

 

Again, she is generalizing that all gorillas are that way from their birth and they're raised that way.. If say Zako from the TV series was so "brainwashed" by his upbringing, then he certainly wouldn't have made a deal with them to get Urko and Burke out... He also wouldn't have had enough of a conscious to go against Urko's command to kill them, even though he had made a deal with Galen and Virdon

 

I don't count the TV series as cannon, but as long as were dragging outside things into it, I do believe that the gorillas are raised to be soldiers.  True Julius was just labor, but look at the army.  Aside from Zaius riding along it's entirely gorillas!  They are the Klingons of apes.  They're like the Spartans.  Born to kill.  As for Ursus being stupid, he is pretty stupid, trying to shoot an atomic bomb.  He may be the top idiot, but still an idiot.  Force was his answer to everything.  Sure he could whip the other gorillas into a frenzy and get the other apes to support him by intimidation, but that doesn't make him intelligent. Being cleaver and being stupid are not mutually exclusive.  Many a tin pot dictator used what talents they had just to be brutal.  And speaking of the TV show, Wanda couldn't even explain brainwashing to Urko.

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In a message dated 8/16/2006 8:47:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mlccougar@... writes:

She didn't give a flip about humans as anything other than animals...

 

I disagree.  She threw her career away to help him.

 

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In a message dated 8/17/06 12:26:31 AM Central Daylight Time, TZer0@... writes:

In a message dated 8/16/2006 8:47:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mlccougar@... writes:

She didn't give a flip about humans as anything other than animals...

 

I disagree.  She threw her career away to help him.

Not true...

 

Taylor was the "excuse", but remember the line Zaius says to Taylor: "In a way you did the state a service, because you made it possible for us to expose Zira and Cornelius."

 

To me this just might mean that those two troublesome chimps were under the surveillance of the authorities for quite some time, and their ties to Taylor made it possible for all their heretical views to be exposed... Zira's career was probably in trouble anyway, but then being exposed as a heretic was made possible by her helping the human... All her actions before Taylor's arrival worked against her and their helping Taylor blew the state's case against them wide open... Her actions (and Cornelius') were the wick, and their helping Taylor was the dynamite...

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In a message dated 8/17/2006 1:58:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mlccougar@... writes:

To me this just might mean that those two troublesome chimps were under the surveillance of the authorities for quite some time, and their ties to Taylor made it possible for all their heretical views to be exposed

 

Of course they were.  Ape City is a very closed society.

Remember Dr. Galen talking about not being able to make

it.  If you'll recall they put his head on the chopping block

too, and he was just a vet.  They nip that shit in the bud.

Remember this story is a satire on human society.  And

in the 60's many intellectuals were considered subversive.

If you want to draw a parallel, just take a look at all the

FBI did to try and prevent John & Yoko from getting US

citizenship!  And all they did was protest the war.  The

only difference between them and the hippies is that

people actually listened to Lennon.  He may have

been paranoid, but there actually was a conspiracy

against him, that went all the way up to the president.

Nixon had a blacklist, and he used it, just like Zaius.

 

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It probably was. I was just paraphrasing, not giving the exact quote
so as to make it 'fit' in with Neil's line. An ape's got ta know his
limitations...

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, PofTAfan@... wrote:
>
> I thought it was "when you hang a man, you better look at 'em."
>
> Kevin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: patrickmichaeltilton@...
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, 15 Aug 2006 12:00 PM
> Subject: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: Stay away from the CONQUEST/BATTLE
> era...
>
> And when they hang 'em they better look at 'em!
>
> That's not from a title, but from a line of dialogue delivered by
Mr.
> Eastwood... oh, I forgot, the dude didn't have a name!
>
> Patrick
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil T Foster" <ntfoster@> wrote:
> >
> > -- Groan! You know what they should do to people who come up with
> stuff like this? They should hang them and make sure to hang 'em
> high! ;-)
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On >
> >
> > Only for a fistful of dollars though!
> >
> > Now, for a few dollars more.......
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@... wrote:

>
>
> In a message dated 8/16/06 11:57:13 AM Central Daylight Time,

TZer0@... writes:

>
> But I can't think of any statement she made that was false. Can

you?

>
> "Gorillas are cruel because they're stupid. All bone and no

brain"...

>
> Is Ursus stupid? Doesn't look that way to me... (He is in the fact

that he's a warhawk, but that's just a matter of opinion... He
couldn't have achieved rank of general by being moronic...)

>
> "At least our child when it's born won't be breast fed on bile."
>
> Again, she is generalizing that all gorillas are that way from

their birth and they're raised that way.. If say Zako from the TV
series was so "brainwashed" by his upbringing, then he certainly
wouldn't have made a deal with them to get Urko and Burke out... He
also wouldn't have had enough of a conscious to go against Urko's
command to kill them, even though he had made a deal with Galen and
Virdon...
----------------------------------------------------------

*** A couple things...

1) Ursus wasn't stupid, and I wouldn't call him a "warhawk" in the
sense of meaning somebody who avidly seeks out war just for the macho
sake of wanting to get violent. He believes that his people (all
apes) are facing the prospect of a dire famine, and the ONLY way out
of it he sees is to conquer the territory next door which he KNOWS is
inhabited, since he's just gotten evidence of that fact. They live,
therefore they must eat. Since humans ravaged the apes' arable land,
Ursus deems it fitting for the apes to replenish the land with new,
improved feeding grounds which can be obtained in the "once-Forbidden
Zone".

Also, Ursus wants revenge against those who caused the disappearance
of 11 of his scouts and rendered the 12th one insane due to "unsimian
torture" no doubt. Most Americans were wholly in favor of
annihilating the Al Qaeda-hosting Taliban regime of Afghanistan, as
payback for 9/11, so it's not as if it's unreasonable for there to be
enthusiasm on the part of the gorilla contingent to go out to the
Zone and "get some". And, I know more than a few people who didn't
shed any tears for those Abu Ghraib prisoners who were mistreated --
not when prisoners taken by Zarqawi were being beheaded right and
left. When that 12th Scout's gorilla buddies saw what he was reduced
to after what must have been some form of torture, is it any wonder
that they want revenge? Think of how different things would've been
if the Mutants had NOT kidnapped 11 of the gorillas and mind-slammed
that 12th one: there might never have been the public support for
Ursus' invasion amongst his own gorilla faction. The "attack" on
those scouts was the "first blood" drawn, and it makes it all the
more righteous for the ones who suffered that "first strike" to
strike back.

As for Ursus shooting at the Doomsday Bomb, that wasn't so much
stupidity as it was ignorance. He doesn't have a CLUE what it is, and
he's only been told (just then, by Mendez XXVI) that it is "the
instrument of [his] God". What does THAT mean? Chances are that Ursus
CAN'T know what it is, and deems it merely a shiny idol. The Mutants
used their illusions to make the Army THINK that their own idol --
the statue of the Lawgiver -- was bleeding, on fire, and toppling to
its destruction... so, why not get a little payback? Why NOT blast it
with gunfire?

Zaius knows (somehow) that it is a "weapon built by Man" and
that "it'll kill us all" -- and we might wonder how he could know
that. Perhaps one of the Terrible Secrets his ancestors had been
guarding for 2,000 years was that a device fitting this description
had been built by Man just prior to the catastrophic war that ended
human civilization... that it was designed to destroy the entire
world, but somehow had NOT been triggered back then. To see it there,
behind the altar of this mutant cathedral, would bring to Zaius' mind
the realization of his worst fears: that the Doomsday Bomb had not
been dismantled or buried and forgotten... but, rather, had been kept
operational by insane humans through the centuries and preserved as a
last-resort weapon of defense against the Apes.

Incidentally, Ursus -- by firing that machine-gun at the Doomsday
Bomb -- just may have had the potential to render it incapable of
detonating. If the Doomsday Bomb is related to other atomic bombs,
then it would have to have its array of shaped charges explode
simultaneously, creating the IMPLOSION shock waves to heighten the
density enough to initiate the chain reaction that makes it go BOOM
in a nuclear way. If even ONE of those shaped charges -- situated in
an array around the soon-to-be-critical mass like the pentagonal and
hexagonal tiles of a soccerball -- if even ONE of 'em isn't
maintained in its alignment, then the shockwaves won't be centered
where they need to be and the NUCLEAR explosion won't take place. If
you ever saw the George Clooney action flick "THE PEACEMAKER", he and
Nicole Kidman render that backpack nuke non-nukeable by using a
screwdriver to hammer one of the shaped-charge wedges out-of-
alignment: the shaped charges exploded, but they didn't trigger the
NUCLEAR explosion. Maybe, if Zaius had allowed Ursus to keep blastin'
away at the Doomsday Bomb, he just might've fired a round which --
penetrating its cobalt casing -- could've skewed one of the nuke's
shaped charges. Taylor's triggering of the explosion would've made
the shaped charges go BOOM, but those multiple-and-simultaneous
explosions wouldn't then have been able to cause the IMPLOSION that
triggers the nuclear chain reaction.

And 2) In addition to Zako, let's not forget PERDIX from "The
Deception" when we're talking about gorillas and whether or not
Zira's anti-gorilla sentiments are justified. I'd say it's a toss-up
between Zako and Perdix for the title of Most Honorable Gorilla. When
the only beings suffering from the attacks of the Dragoons were
HUMANS, he still was opposed to the unlawful vigilanteism, and
insisted that the killing and the terror STOP. The only ones being
killed and terrorized were HUMANS... so why should Perdix, if he were
just another bile-nursed, cruel all-bone-and-little-brained gorilla
like the types Zira loathed, why should he go out of his way to
insist on the Rule of Law? When it would've been much easier for him
to sit back and let the rabble go apeshit on the powerless humans, he
stood up for what's right. That took guts and integrity. I'd say that
Perdix is a tad better than Zako, because Zako -- after seeing
the "truth" that Urko so feared -- wasn't above destroying it; it
would've made for an interesting denoument to see Zako folding that
Zoo poster up and surreptitiously hiding it in his uniform... to use,
later, for subversive purposes, perhaps? Alas, he was too overwhelmed
by the revelation.

Patrick

Is that "excellent" in a Bill-&-Ted way, or a Mr. Burns way? ;)

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil T Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- Excellent thinking Patrick, that certainly would make sense.
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton

> I get the feeling that a gorilla (as yet unnamed) is in charge of
the Corral. Since the gorillas are the apes who predominantly make
use of the horses for patrolling their borders, it makes sense to
have a gorilla in charge of the Corral, right?
>
> And, if Caesar doesn't want any of the gorillas to know that he's
going out-of-town on a 3-day journey -- taking along an orangutan and
a human but NOT a gorilla -- then he CAN'T go to the Corral and get 3
horses, since that would alert Aldo to the fact that they're going to
be gone... which Caesar might feel would give Aldo an opportunity to
stage a coup d'etat during his absence.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@... wrote:

>
>
> I'm sure that a gorilla could be in charge of the corral, but the

reason that Cornelius says what he says is purely out
of "segregationism"... He knows that "his kind" (and the orangutans)
are the intellectual/smart ones, so it's their "place" to learn
writing, whereas the gorillas are the soldiers/protectors and
it's "their place" to ride...
------------------------------------------------------------

*** I've always gotten the impression that Cornelius Jr. says what he
says because he envies those gorillas who get to ride horses. He
already KNOWS how to read and write. Why does he need to go to class?
He's the son of the Ape King -- the heir to the throne. And there he
is, in a classroom with the "hoi polloi" when he'd much rather be
having fun.

His dad was a bareback rider in Armando's circus. That must've been
FUN, Cornelius Jr. probably thinks. But what kind of fun does
Cornelius Jr. get to have?

When he plays "war" with that human kid, he gets in trouble, because
his father has forbidden him to "make a game of war"... even though
it's FUN. Like when a lot of us played "Planet of the Apes" as an
updated version of Cowboys-and-Indians, chasing each other around
with plastic guns and staging mock battles, Ape against Human.

When Aldo seizes control, there's a shot of an Ape RIDING A HUMAN as
if he were a horse, all in fun -- until a gorilla grabs the "horse-
man" and takes him off to the Corral (ironic, isn't it? he pretends
to be a horse for his playful ape rider, and winds up where the
horses are usually kept).

When Cornelius Jr. says that line -- "If my father were a gorilla,
we'd all be learning RIDING instead of WRITING" -- he is gently
reprimanded by Teacher, who reminds him that he is Caesar's son and
heir, and that in order to be a good Ruler it takes a lot more than
being a good Rider. Cornelius Jr. has a child's view of Rulership,
all full of derring-do and heroic action; Teacher has to inform him
that there have been those in the Past whose ideas about ruling were
limited to that vain conception (and Aldo is seen nodding in
agreement with that sentiment).

I think that Cornelius Jr. just wants to have fun, like the kid that
he is. There's a part of him that wishes he were a gorilla, or that
his father -- the ruler of all the apes and humans -- were a gorilla,
so that he could be out having fun, riding horses, rather than
sitting in a boring schoolroom practicing their penmanship. He's just
a kid, and nobody should expect him to be some child prodigy with
wisdom beyond his years and maturity far surpassing that of his same-
age friends. He's a kid, and he wants to have fun. When the brouhaha
over Teacher's near-death over the "No!" Law is finished, Cornelius
Jr. asks his dad if he can go out and play, since there's no more
school for that day; his dad asks whether or not he can study at
home... and Cornelius Jr. wheedle's him with: "Well... I COULD,
Father, but..."

"Run along and play," his dad smiles. And what kinds of games did he
go off to play? Probably "war", with that human kid. Cuz it's FUN.

Patrick

I was doing some brainstorming on my POTA epic, and got a couple ideas
that intrigued me.

Remember how the Watch Commander would get on the loudspeaker and
inform everybody that there was "an unauthorized ape gathering at the
foot of Ramp Six" and whatnot? We know from "BATTLE" that Breck had
those surveillance cameras installed, according to MacDonald #2, "to
forestall ape conspiracies".

We don't see Kolp again (in "CONQUEST") after he leaves the
electroshock area at Ape Management with Breck and MacDonald #1. We
never see him captured by the apes during the Revolt. Where might he be?

What if, when Caesar is giving his "rant" at the end of the movie...
what if there is a surveillance camera recording it all? What if Kolp
is watching and hearing everything Caesar's saying... and recording it?

In David Gerrold's novelization (3rd chapter, page 59), when Kolp,
Alma, and Mendez are watching the surveillance camera images of the
intruders, there's this paragraph:

------------------------
Watching them on the monitors, Kolp wished the microphones were still
working. He would have given anything to know what they were talking
about.
------------------------

"still working" -- i.e., those surveillance cameras USED to be AUDIO-
VISUAL, and the AUDIO-function went kaput, leaving only the VIDEO feed.

If Kolp were in some secure location, with access to the State Security
apparatus (even though the Command Post was in shambles), then he just
might have been able to record Caesar's big speech.

That means he could transmit that recording. And the whole country --
the whole WORLD -- would then hear the "Hitlerian" harangue of that
dangerous talking ape.

What sort of effect might that have on the human populations of the 5
continents? On the simian slave populations dwelling among them?

During that rant, there was also that moment when Lisa, too, begins to
show that she can speak -- when she expresses her opposition to the
blood-and-revenge plan Caesar's threatened to unleash on Man.

Then follows Caesar's back-pedalling... his revision of his Plan, where
Man is to be dominated with compassion and understanding.

If any of the slave-apes in other cities, states, or countries can
understand the English being spoken by Caesar -- in a televised
broadcast of that speech -- how would they react? Would they forget the
last watered-down Put-Away-Your-Vengeance sentiment and get medieval on
Man... or would they curb their pent-up violence and try to live up to
the standards that Caesar (in the later part of his speech) implores
them to?

The chaos that erupts in the wake of Caesar's revolt in Breck's city is
being addressed in an interesting way in the new "REVOLUTION" comic. In
my project, I've been thinking along different paths, of course. If we
pretend that the USA in the POTA Universe -- in 1991 -- has an Internet-
type of communication system, is it possible for the Government to do a
Black-Out so as to prevent any audio-visual digital signals from
leaving a quarantined area?

Hmmm...

One other thing I've been mulling over is how best to address the later
events regarding Lewis Dixon and Stephanie Branton.

Here's where I'm currently most apt to take 'em...

It isn't until Armando's circus ape is heard to say "Lousy human
bastard!" that Breck and his Security people begin to wonder about the
possible survival of the Ape-onauts' baby, and suspect a connection
with Armando.

By going over the records, they would eventually discover these facts:

1) A month before the talking apes arrived on Earth, a pregnant female
chimp named Heloise gave birth -- and it is "legally certified", so
there's a paper-trail involved.

2) The baby was a female, named "Salome". The 1st chimpanzee ever to be
born in a circus... thus, this was an Event. There was some Press
involved, just as we have press reports about Ling-Ling the panda and
Koko the gorilla.

3) The veterinarian doctor who delivered Salome was LEWIS DIXON.

Armando would've had to somehow provide a new paper trail, doctored to
show Heloise giving birth to a male baby, if he hoped to avoid the
conclusion that a baby-switch had occurred... but if the Press had
reported on that historical "first", what hope could he have? At best,
he would have had to claim that the gender of the baby was MISTAKENLY
thought, at first, to be female, and that this mistake was discovered
subsequently and corrected -- and a new male name would then have been
given to it.

If Lewis Dixon's name had been in the Press back in 1973, then Kolp and
Hoskyns would've undoubtedly found this out in their 1991
investigation. And, when Armando's ape not only was proven to be able
to talk, but went on to wage a Revolt... and to give a rant that
(perhaps) Kolp recorded and broadcast via satellite or fiber-optic line
to the rest of the broadcast news outlets in the country... the
National authorities would have every reason to suspect Lewis Dixon of
being the "link" between the escaped Ape-onauts and Armando.

Lewis Dixon would be brought in for questioning by the Feds, I have no
doubt whatsoever. And he would be questioned whilst strapped to a chair
under the influence of an Authenticator. If Breck's security guys have
an Authenticator, you can bet your ass that the Feds also have this
technology.

They would learn, if they knew what questions to ask (forcing the truth
out of Dixon), that he had not only known about the future destruction
of the Earth, but that he had also given aid and comfort to "the Enemy"
(as Cornelius and Zira were posthumously labelled).

What would the Government do with Dixon (and Branton)? Would they
imprison them for Treason, perhaps have them executed? Would they,
perhaps, seek to USE them in negotiations with Caesar? After all,
Caesar had been told by Armando about his parents; isn't it likely that
Armando also told him about the help his parents had gotten from Lewis
and Stevie? Knowing that those two people were the only human friends
his parents had (save Armando), wouldn't Caesar have a soft spot in his
heart for them? And wouldn't that be exploited by Government
negotiators trying to secure the release of human hostages held by
Caesar's ape army?

Some things to think about, anyway...

Patrick

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2006 4:54 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Zira the troublemaker

Taylor was the "excuse", but remember the line Zaius says to Taylor: "In a way you did the state a service, because you made it possible for us to expose Zira and Cornelius."

 

To me this just might mean that those two troublesome chimps were under the surveillance of the authorities for quite some time,

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2006 5:31 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Zira the troublemaker

In a message dated 8/17/2006 1:58:57 A.M. Central Daylight Time, mlccougar@aol. com writes:

To me this just might mean that those two troublesome chimps were under the surveillance of the authorities for quite some time, and their ties to Taylor made it possible for all their heretical views to be exposed

 

Of course they were.  Ape City is a very closed society.

Remember Dr. Galen talking about not being able to make

it.  If you'll recall they put his head on the chopping block

too, and he was just a vet. 

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 4:23 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] URSUS - he wasn't stupid

1) Ursus wasn't stupid, and I wouldn't call him a "warhawk" in the
sense of meaning somebody who avidly seeks out war just for the macho
sake of wanting to get violent. He believes that his people (all
apes) are facing the prospect of a dire famine, and the ONLY way out
of it he sees is to conquer the territory next door which he KNOWS is
inhabited, since he's just gotten evidence of that fact. They live,
therefore they must eat. Since humans ravaged the apes' arable land,
Ursus deems it fitting for the apes to replenish the land with new,
improved feeding grounds which can be obtained in the "once-Forbidden
Zone".

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 4:23 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] URSUS - he wasn't stupid

because Zako -- after seeing
the "truth" that Urko so feared -- wasn't above destroying it; it
would've made for an interesting denoument to see Zako folding that
Zoo poster up and surreptitiously hiding it in his uniform... to use,
later, for subversive purposes, perhaps? Alas, he was too overwhelmed
by the revelation.

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2006 3:24 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Speciesism?

 I do believe that the gorillas are raised to be soldiers.  True Julius was just labor, but look at the army.  Aside from Zaius riding along it's entirely gorillas! 

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2006 3:24 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Speciesism?

 As for Ursus being stupid, he is pretty stupid, trying to shoot an atomic bomb.  He may be the top idiot, but still an idiot.  Force was his answer to everything.  Sure he could whip the other gorillas into a frenzy and get the other apes to support him by intimidation, but that doesn't make him intelligent.

.

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Nah....I'm looking else where but I do always ask
thier names.....I don't think I've ever been in one of
those establishments without there being at least one
Amber......

--- Neil T Foster <ntfoster@...> wrote:

> -- I'm sure the guys at Apemania would jump at the
> chance!
>
> You seem to know a lot of their names Tim, too much
> time studying their
> name badges? ;-)
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2006 11:45 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: New file
> uploaded to PotaDG
>
>
>
> maybe Apemania could come down and migle with the
> girls....just as long as it doesn't get all
> "Playmate
> of the Apes"....yeech.....
> say hey to Mandy for me....and Tiffany...... and
> Amber...and Desiree...and
> Chocolate.......etc.........
>
> .
>
>

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714&grpId=8605785&grpspId=1600021437&m

>

sgId=40675&stime=1155735929&nc1=3858795&nc2=3848620&nc3=3848445>

>
>
>
>

that's what tattoos are for!!

--- Michael Whitty <whitty@...> wrote:

> What do they pin the name badges to!?!?!?!?!?!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Neil T Foster
> Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2006 6:58 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: {Disarmed} RE: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: New
> file uploaded to
> PotaDG
>
> -- I'm sure the guys at Apemania would jump at the
> chance!
>
> You seem to know a lot of their names Tim, too much
> time studying their
> name badges? ;-)
>
> Neil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2006 11:45 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: New file
> uploaded to PotaDG
> maybe Apemania could come down and migle with the
> girls....just as long as it doesn't get all
> "Playmate
> of the Apes"....yeech.....
> say hey to Mandy for me....and Tiffany...... and
> Amber...and Desiree...and
> Chocolate.......etc.........
> .
>
> --
>

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2006 3:24 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Speciesism?

 As for Ursus being stupid, he is pretty stupid, trying to shoot an atomic bomb.  He may be the top idiot, but still an idiot. 

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 4:23 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] URSUS - he wasn't stupid

Zaius knows (somehow) that it is a "weapon built by Man" and
that "it'll kill us all" -- and we might wonder how he could know
that. Perhaps one of the Terrible Secrets his ancestors had been
guarding for 2,000 years was that a device fitting this description
had been built by Man just prior to the catastrophic war that ended
human civilization. .. that it was designed to destroy the entire
world, but somehow had NOT been triggered back then. To see it there,
behind the altar of this mutant cathedral, would bring to Zaius' mind
the realization of his worst fears: that the Doomsday Bomb had not
been dismantled or buried and forgotten... but, rather, had been kept
operational by insane humans through the centuries and preserved as a
last-resort weapon of defense against the Apes.

.

<.html

The tattoo is of their babies daddy's name. Not theirs.
I better stop before I get in trouble.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> that's what tattoos are for!!
>
> --- Michael Whitty <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> > What do they pin the name badges to!?!?!?!?!?!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> > Of Neil T Foster
> > Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2006 6:58 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: {Disarmed} RE: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: New
> > file uploaded to
> > PotaDG
> >
> > -- I'm sure the guys at Apemania would jump at the
> > chance!
> >
> > You seem to know a lot of their names Tim, too much
> > time studying their
> > name badges? ;-)
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> > Of Tim "apefan"
> > Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2006 11:45 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: New file
> > uploaded to PotaDG
> > maybe Apemania could come down and migle with the
> > girls....just as long as it doesn't get all
> > "Playmate
> > of the Apes"....yeech.....
> > say hey to Mandy for me....and Tiffany...... and
> > Amber...and Desiree...and
> > Chocolate.......etc.........
> > .
> >
> > --
> >
>
>
>

Hey Tim, Bambi and Angel both say hi. (insert evil super villian
laugh here) Muhahahahaha!!!!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> What do they pin the name badges to!?!?!?!?!?!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Neil T Foster
> Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2006 6:58 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: {Disarmed} RE: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to
> PotaDG
>
> -- I'm sure the guys at Apemania would jump at the chance!
>
> You seem to know a lot of their names Tim, too much time studying
their
> name badges? ;-)
>
> Neil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2006 11:45 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG
> maybe Apemania could come down and migle with the
> girls....just as long as it doesn't get all "Playmate
> of the Apes"....yeech.....
> say hey to Mandy for me....and Tiffany...... and
> Amber...and Desiree...and Chocolate.......etc.........
> .
>
> --
>

They must be great ventriloquists because they are currently suc.....

Oh nver mind!

Michael

--------- Original Message --------
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
To: "PotaDG@yahoogroups.com" <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: Strippers....
Date: 18/08/06 20:32

Hey Tim, Bambi and Angel both say hi. (insert evil super villian
laugh here) Muhahahahaha! !!!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> What do they pin the name badges to!?!?!?!?!? !
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@yahoogroups. com] On
Behalf
> Of Neil T Foster
> Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2006 6:58 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: {Disarmed} RE: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to
> PotaDG
>
> -- I'm sure the guys at Apemania would jump at the chance!
>
> You seem to know a lot of their names Tim, too much time studying
their
> name badges? ;-)
>
> Neil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@yahoogroups. com] On
Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2006 11:45 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG
> maybe Apemania could come down and migle with the
> girls....just as long as it doesn't get all "Playmate
> of the Apes"....yeech. ....
> say hey to Mandy for me....and Tiffany..... . and
> Amber...and Desiree...and Chocolate... ....etc.. .......
> .
>
> -- viruses and
dangerous content by CyberOne E-Mail Spam and Virus Protection Service, and is believed to be clean from viruses. CyberOne accepts no responsibility for the content of messages in transit through our servers.
--
Suspected unsolicited commercial bulk messages
(SPAM) have been marked with {Spam?} tag in the subject line enabling you to filter them out
by using your mail software's filtering

.html

In a message dated 8/17/06 5:10:31 PM Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@... writes:

Who does their farming and things like that which we are never shown?

Well, in The Interrogation episode, there is a gorilla farmer who has his hay wagon hi-jacked by Virdon and Galen, so they do farm... (And of course, at least in/on the TV series, chimps do too...)

 

It has always been said that the gorillas are the military and police, and that they also do the brunt of all "physical" labor... My guess is that in addition to farming, they probably hold "factory" jobs where they make the goods like the weapons, wagons, etc, that keep their armed forces staocked up...

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In a message dated 8/17/06 8:10:40 PM Central Daylight Time, atragon1@... writes:

Unless the role of "archeologist" was created by the council as a propaganda mechanism means to cloak the true explanation of where these artifacts came from.

I don't think it was totally created for that propaganda purposes, but there's no doubt that at least those "backed" by the authorities are in such a postion... By that I mean: The ones "backed" by Zaius and the like DO "cloak the true explanation" of what the artifacts are/were... Remember the line Zaius says to Taylor in the cave (paraphrased here) : "There are geologists on my staff that would laugh at your speculations..."

 

I think that says it all... The are employed by the higher ups and they say exactly what the higher ups want to hear/want them to say...

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I was looking at some of my apes books today and found out some of the other roles the smaller actors went on to do and so on. Nova was in Cocoon and the second one as well. I have never seen anything Landon did ever? Was he the studio's nephew or something? Is Planet of the apes his only claim to fame?

 

Tom

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SWEET! are they holding my ..........table for me?

--- John <DrZaiusDavis@...> wrote:

> Hey Tim, Bambi and Angel both say hi. (insert evil
> super villian
> laugh here) Muhahahahaha!!!!
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty"
> <whitty@...> wrote:
> >
> > What do they pin the name badges to!?!?!?!?!?!
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of Neil T Foster
> > Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2006 6:58 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: {Disarmed} RE: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re:
> New file uploaded to
> > PotaDG
> >
> > -- I'm sure the guys at Apemania would jump at the
> chance!
> >
> > You seem to know a lot of their names Tim, too
> much time studying
> their
> > name badges? ;-)
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of Tim "apefan"
> > Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2006 11:45 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: New file
> uploaded to PotaDG
> > maybe Apemania could come down and migle with the
> > girls....just as long as it doesn't get all
> "Playmate
> > of the Apes"....yeech.....
> > say hey to Mandy for me....and Tiffany...... and
> > Amber...and Desiree...and
> Chocolate.......etc.........
> > .
> >
> > --
> >
>
>
>
>
>

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----- Original Message -----

From: Greg Plonowski

To: pota@yahoogroups.com ; potadg@yahoogroups.com ; friends & fugitives

Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 5:45 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Rarities disc

Just an update and a few questions that have come up.

 

The first batch of discs went in the mail this morning. Everyone who had sent payment by noon yesterday was in the fist batch. Got a few more people who sent in payments yesterday afternoon and evening and those discs will go out tomorrow.

 

Got several payments from people in Canada, and they were gracious to send in a few extra dollars to cover increased postage, which was greatly appreciated. If you're in Canada and want to order a disc but didn't because you weren't sure how much to send, $3 covers the increase in postage (that's $3 total, not $3 in addition to the $2 U.S. cost). Same deal for the UK. If you're somewhere other than the U.S., U.K. or Canada, please e-mail me first so I can confirm airmail rates to your country. Note that the disc is NTSC. It's also region-free.

 

The disc you'll receive is a DVD-R, Maxell brand. I don't have DVD+Rs. If you require a specific disc type or brand you have the option of sending a blank disc to James Aquila (jamesa1102@aol. com). James has created a very cool label and DVD wrap and files for those can be found in the group files (on the DG they're in the Photos 2 sub-group). I won't be applying a label or otherwise marking the disc I send you in any way.

 

You can send PayPal payments ($2 for U.S., $3 for U.K. or Canada) to urko3085@sbcglobal. net or e-mail me at that address if you don't have a PayPal account and want to send a money order instead.

 

Thanks,

Greg

 

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 11:17 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Zira the troublemaker

 

I think that says it all... The are employed by the higher ups and they say exactly what the higher ups want to hear/want them to say...

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Wednesday, 16 August 2006 2:34 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: DON'T stay away from the CONQUEST/BATTLE era...

In a message dated 8/15/2006 10:11:51 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@bigpond. com writes:

Not if Mandemus does his job.  They have to be

cleaned and lubricated periodically.  New weapons

often come shipped stored in Cosmoline,  a petroleum

based grease to prevent corrosion during storage.  But

a well maintained firearm has a long serviceable life.  In

fact it's longer than a weapon that's used a lot.  Putting

thousands of rounds through the barrel significantly reduces

it's accuracy.  The WWII era Colt .45 Autos got a bad rap as

being an inaccurate handgun -- not that the .45 is a target

round.   However by the time the army sold them off into

the civilian market the barrels were spent. Had the people who

purchased them replaced the barrels, along with any other worn

out moving parts they would have had perfectly acceptable

accuracy.  I saw a guy on TV prove this by shooting a balloon

with one at 200 yards.  He then repeated this feat with a

snub-nosed .38.  But even if the Apes had worn out weapons

they picked up in the battle against the military, at the range

they were fighting the Mutants at it wouldn't have made any

difference. At close quarters combat ranges it just a bullet hose.

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 11:06 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Speciesism?

My guess is that in addition to farming, they probably hold "factory" jobs where they make the goods like the weapons, wagons, etc, that keep their armed forces staocked up...

.

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I guess UK and Spain have the same rate 3$. If it's not so, please, let me know. If I don't get any answer in 3 days I'll send 3$ to the Paypal account.

 

Thank you very much for everything you are doing.

 

Un saludo,

 

Paolo Zerbato Cano
paolozerbato@ herrpeter. com

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Greg Plonowski

To: pota@yahoogroups. com ; potadg@yahoogroups. com ; friends & fugitives

Sent: Thursday, August 17, 2006 5:45 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Rarities disc

Just an update and a few questions that have come up.

 

The first batch of discs went in the mail this morning. Everyone who had sent payment by noon yesterday was in the fist batch. Got a few more people who sent in payments yesterday afternoon and evening and those discs will go out tomorrow.

 

Got several payments from people in Canada, and they were gracious to send in a few extra dollars to cover increased postage, which was greatly appreciated. If you're in Canada and want to order a disc but didn't because you weren't sure how much to send, $3 covers the increase in postage (that's $3 total, not $3 in addition to the $2 U.S. cost). Same deal for the UK. If you're somewhere other than the U.S., U.K. or Canada, please e-mail me first so I can confirm airmail rates to your country. Note that the disc is NTSC. It's also region-free.

 

The disc you'll receive is a DVD-R, Maxell brand. I don't have DVD+Rs. If you require a specific disc type or brand you have the option of sending a blank disc to James Aquila ( jamesa1102@aol. com ). James has created a very cool label and DVD wrap and files for those can be found in the group files (on the DG they're in the Photos 2 sub-group). I won't be applying a label or otherwise marking the disc I send you in any way.

 

You can send PayPal payments ($2 for U.S., $3 for U.K. or Canada) to urko3085@sbcglobal. net or e-mail me at that address if you don't have a PayPal account and want to send a money order instead.

 

Thanks,

Greg

 

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 11:41 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Strippers....

SWEET! are they holding my ..........table for me?

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 10:17 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Strippers....

The tattoo is of their babies daddy's name. Not theirs.
I better stop before I get in trouble.

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tshaf37@...
Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 11:38 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Landon

I was looking at some of my apes books today and found out some of the other roles the smaller actors went on to do and so on. Nova was in Cocoon and the second one as well. I have never seen anything Landon did ever? Was he the studio's nephew or something? Is Planet of the apes his only claim to fame?

 

Tom

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tshaf37@...
Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 11:38 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Landon

I was looking at some of my apes books today and found out some of the other roles the smaller actors went on to do and so on. Nova was in Cocoon and the second one as well. I have never seen anything Landon did ever? Was he the studio's nephew or something? Is Planet of the apes his only claim to fame?

 

Tom

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 10:56 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Landon

-- We were actually discussing him the other day. He was in Our Man Flint very, very briefly but yes he seemed to have a very limited career.

 

Is he still alive?

.

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In a message dated 8/17/2006 8:11:20 P.M. Central Daylight Time, atragon1@... writes:

stumbling across artifacts of the past whenever they dug a drainage ditch or contracted a foundation for their buildings... There would have been a plethora of coins (with ... gasp! ... human images

 

I'm not sure how startling it would be.

It might be like finding a Buffalo Nickel

to them.  There's loads of currency with

animals on them. If you found an ancient

coin with a monkey on it would you say,

"My God!  The world was ruled by Apes!

 

 

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In a message dated 8/18/2006 7:55:16 A.M. Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- Well lets hope that Mandemus had plenty of oil then!

 

The current wisdom is don't use too much oil.

An oily build up just attracts dirt, and dirt causes

wear.  Just as not cleaning the gunpowder from

inside the barrel causes pitting, allowing the

moving parts to operate with dirt or sand on

them causes excessive wear.  Using a light

cleaner/lubricant such as Break-Free or WD-40

and then wiping it dry usually leaves enough

lubricant behind to protect the metal from

corrosion and wear.  Some elite special

forces use a dry film lubricant such as

TR Gun Kote which acts like a Teflon

coating that won't wash off, and is

capable of withstanding 500 hours

of salt spray.  SEALs use it in

their work because of all the

salt and sand.  For beach

landings they opt for the

AK rather than the M-16.

The tolerances are lower

on the AK, so it's less

likely to jam when dirty.

 

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Linda's other name was Augusta Summerland.

Robert Gunner and Jeff Burton are both dead. Here's
their complete credits.....

Tim

Robert Gunner

Date of death
September 1992

Sometimes Credited As:
Bob Gunner

Actor - filmography

0. Planet of the Apes (1968) .... Landon?... aka
Monkey Planet
0. Caprice (1967) (uncredited) .... Farley
0. The Jackals (1967) .... Stretch
0. "The Green Hornet" ?... aka The Kato Show (Hong
Kong: English title: informal title) ? - The Ray Is
for Killing (1966) TV Episode (as Bob Gunner) ....
Detective
0. Our Man Flint (1966) (uncredited) .... Agent 0008?

Filmography as: Actor, Archive Footage

Archive Footage

Escape from the Planet of the Apes (1971) (uncredited)
.... Landon


Jeff Burton

Date of birth
1925
Date of death
18 January 1988

Filmography as: Actor

Actor - filmography?(1970s) (1960s)

0. Street Sisters (1974) .... Grandpa?... aka Black
Hooker ?... aka Black Mama (USA: video title)
0. "The Snoop Sisters" ? - The Devil Made Me Do It
(1974) TV Episode .... Phillips
0. The President's Plane Is Missing (1973) (TV) ....
Reporter
0. Coffy (1973) .... Dr. Brannan
0. The Mad Bomber (1973) .... Sergeant Gribble?... aka
Detective Geronimo ?... aka The Police Connection
0. The Manhunter (1972) (TV) .... Lester
0. "Night Gallery" ?... aka Rod Serling's Night
Gallery (USA) ? - Green Fingers (1972) TV Episode
.... Deputy
0. "Nanny and the Professor" ? - The Man Who Came
to Pasta (1971) TV Episode .... Reporter
0. "The F.B.I." ? - The Deadly Pact (1970) TV
Episode .... 2nd Agent
0. "The Bold Ones: The Lawyers" ?... aka The Lawyers ?
- Panther in a Cage (1970) TV Episode .... Sergeant
Jonas
0. "The Partridge Family" ? - A Partridge by Any
Other Name (????) TV Episode .... Workman
0. "McCloud" ? - Manhattan Manhunt: Part 1: Horse
Stealing on Fifth Avenue (1970) TV Episode .... 1st
Reporter
0. "Bewitched" ? - Serena Stops the Show (1970) TV
Episode .... Doorman? - Samantha Fights City Hall
(1968) TV Episode .... Bulldozer Driver?
0. "Bracken's World" ? - The Chase Sequence (1969)
TV Episode .... Doctor
0. Sweet Charity (1969) (uncredited) ....
Policeman?... aka Sweet Charity: The Adventures of a
Girl Who Wanted to Be Loved (USA: complete title)
0. "Dragnet 1967" ?... aka Dragnet (USA: syndication
title) ?... aka Dragnet 1968 (USA: second season
title) ?... aka Dragnet 1969 (USA: third season title)
?... aka Dragnet 1970 (USA: fourth season title) ?
- Robbery - DR-15 (1968) TV Episode .... Sergeant Mac
Johnson? - The Missing Realtor (1967) TV Episode
.... Carl Keegan
0. "Cowboy in Africa" ? - Search and Destroy (1968)
TV Episode .... Dr. Grambi
0. "Batman" ? - The Joker's Flying Saucer (1968) TV
Episode .... Shamrock
0. Planet of the Apes (1968) .... Dodge?... aka Monkey
Planet
0. "Tarzan" ? - The Ultimatum (1967) TV Episode
.... Sergeant Luba? - Basil of the Bulge (1967) TV
Episode .... Sergeant Nasamgali
0. In Like Flint (1967) (uncredited) .... Secret
Service Agent
0. Madame X (1966) .... Bromley
0. "The Donna Reed Show" ? - No More Parties -
Almost (1966) TV Episode .... Mailman
0. "Gidget" ? - Ringa-Ding-Dingbat (1966) TV
Episode .... Driver Florist Truck
0. "The Fugitive" ? - Stranger in the Mirror (1965)
TV Episode .... Berger
0. Git! (1965) .... Police Sergeant
Great Gettin' Up Mornin' (1964) (TV) .... Jack
Findlay?

--- Neil T Foster <ntfoster@...> wrote:

> Linda was also in Airport 75 with Chuck but I seem
> to remember that she
> used a different name in that movie didn't she?
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of tshaf37@...
> Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 11:38 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Landon
>
>
>
>
>
> I was looking at some of my apes books today and
> found out some of the
> other roles the smaller actors went on to do and so
> on. Nova was in
> Cocoon and the second one as well. I have never seen
> anything Landon did
> ever? Was he the studio's nephew or something? Is
> Planet of the apes his
> only claim to fame?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
>

Dianne Stanley

Actress - filmography

1. Speedway (1968) (uncredited) .... 3rd Waitress
2. Planet of the Apes (1968) (uncredited) ....
Stewart
... aka Monkey Planet
3. Bad Girls for the Boys (1966)

--- Michael Whitty <whitty@...> wrote:

> Can't say I've seen Stewart in anything else either!
>
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Neil T Foster
> Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 12:12 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [PotaDG] Landon
>
> -- And on this theme the guy that played Dodge
> (sorry I don't remember
> his name of the top of my head) also seems to have
> done very little
> after POTA. It certainly seems to have been the high
> point and the end
> of both of their film careers. Did either of them do
> anything else?
>
> Neil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Neil T Foster
> Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 10:56 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Landon
> -- We were actually discussing him the other day. He
> was in Our Man
> Flint very, very briefly but yes he seemed to have a
> very limited
> career.
>
> Is he still alive?
>
> --
>

.html.html This was posted in another group.  I thought Patrick might like to comment.  I'm sure he'll have an e-mail book to write.

From Cinescape Online
Dateline: Monday, July 30, 2001

An Ape By Any Other Name…

CINESCAPE compares the literary
and film exploits of Pierre Boulle's amazing apes

By: TONY WHITT, Correspondent

When Tim Burton first announced that his version of PLANET OF THE
APES would be a "re-imagining" and not a remake of the 1968 classic,
many fans were outraged. I imagine now that we've seen the results of
that "re-imagining," they're even more upset — the two movies
couldn't be more different and yet still retain the same name. But
compared to the book on which the first movie was based — Pierre
Boulle's novel LA PLANÈTE DES SINGES — the shifts in both films are
even more radical, and the resemblances fairly surprising. Let's
begin by looking at the story that started the apes loping…

LA PLANÈTE DES SINGES

Author: Pierre Boulle

Publisher: René Juillard

Year: 1963

Grade: B+

Journalist Ulysse Mérou accompanies the misanthropic Professor
Antelle and his pupil Arthur Levain on an experimental flight to the
Betelgeuse system. While only two years pass aboard the ship, three
and a half centuries pass on Earth. They land on a planet they name
Soror and soon discover that the humans on the planet are little more
than beasts. One of the humans, a beautiful young woman whom Ulysse
names Nova, becomes attached to them. But they soon discover who the
true dominant species is when apes come to hunt for the humans for
the purpose of scientific experimentation — and for sport. Arthur is
killed during the hunt, and Ulysse is separated from Professor
Antelle and taken to a research institute. There, he attracts the
attention of a chimpanzee researcher named Zira, who notices that the
new human beast seems to be mimicking simian speech and actions.

After several degrading experiments, Ulysse manages to convince Zira
that he is a thinking creature, and she quickly teaches him the
simian language while he teaches her French. Despite the machinations
of the closed-minded Dr. Zaïus, an orangutan who represents the
official science, Zira and her fiancée Cornélius encourage Ulysse to
make a speech to the annual biological conference. Zaïus plans to
present Ulysse at the conference as a "tame man," but Ulysse's speech
convinces the assembled scientists, and he is given his freedom. He
becomes a celebrity, but it becomes a hollow victory when he
discovers that Professor Antelle has been kept in the zoo and has
reverted to an animalistic state. Ulysse observes the horrors that
his "spiritual brothers" are put through by the apes and comes to
believe he has a holy mission to revitalize humanity on Soror. He
becomes even more convinced when, in the course of an experiment on a
human woman's brain, the ape scientists access her race memory and
discover that humans were once the dominant species. Their intellect
slowly devolved through apathy, allowing the apes to mimic their
actions and evolve to their current state. This discovery is
supported by a thousand year old archaeological dig in which
Cornélius discovers traces of a human civilization that predates the
simian. Ulysse becomes even more convinced that he has been sent to
return the humans to their previous state.

Before he can make any plans for this holy revolution, he discovers
that Nova is pregnant with his child and that the scientists, headed
by the ousted Zaïus, plan to cut short the threat to simiankind that
this baby — and indeed Ulysse and Nova — represents. Zira and
Cornélius arrange to return Ulysse and his new family to his ship,
which is still in orbit around Soror, so that he can return to Earth.
But the outcome of the journey is not what he expects…

The most surprising thing about Boulle's novel is that it's not
science fiction at all. The science fiction elements, in fact, are
pretty pulpy, especially in Xan Fielding's English translation.
They're a bit easier to stomach in the original French, but it's
still jarring to hear Ulysse and Professor Antelle discussing
the "rocket" that brings them to Soror, or how often Ulysse refers to
Nova as "one of the loveliest females in the cosmos." (It's also
amusing that Ulysse is so parochially French all the way through the
book, even though he's supposedly from the cosmopolitan era of 2500
AD.) But LA PLANÈTE DES SINGES has more in common with the social
commentary of Jonathan Swift and the scientific pessimism of H. G.
Wells than any of the other science fiction published in the
early `60s. Boulle's themes deal with the human pretension of
believing that we are at the center of the universe and with the
nature of intelligence. The apes in the book are simply humans in
disguise, with human foibles and fears.

It's also an amazingly chilling satire — at the same time as you're
laughing at the apes' pompous statements that they are the only
creatures with souls, you realize that we've heard these statements
before from our own theologians and philosophers. Just as chilling
are the scenes in which Ulysse watches the brain surgery experiments
that allow the apes to discover their origins. This book should
probably be required reading for animal rights activists — Ulysse's
horror at the realization that human scientists have conducted
similar experiments on apes in our world is a pivotal moment in the
book. But the most frightening element of all is the cause of the
devolution of humanity, especially the extremely fast degeneration of
the intellectual Professor Antelle: it's not a lobotomy that removes
our intelligence so much as the simple lack of intellectual activity
and the apathy that accompanies such passivity. Taken as a statement
of social criticism, Boulle's novel serves as a warning: we could
easily be superceded by another species and our civilization ended
simply by our own complacency. The book suggests that what has
happened on Soror could happen even to us.

Despite the relative lack of action and the philosophical
underpinnings, fans of the film series will be pleased to find echoes
of this book not only in the first film but in the third, ESCAPE FROM
THE PLANET OF THE APES. The producers of that film must have found
the story of Ulysse Mérou's celebrity irresistible, especially given
that the implications surrounding the birth of Cornelius and Zira's
child in the movie are almost exactly the same as those surrounding
the birth of Nova's baby Sirius. (Yes, his name really is Sirius.
It's a very French book, you know.) Reading this book opens up a
completely different view of both the original film series and the
new film — even if you have to read it in translation.

PLANET OF THE APES (1968)

Rated: G

Stars: Charlton Heston, Kim Hunter, Roddy McDowall, Maurice Evans,
James Whitmore, Linda Harrison, James Daly, Buck Kartalian

Writer(s): Michael Wilson, Rod Serling

Director: Franklin J. Schaffner

Grade: A- (as movie); C (as adaptation)

Astronaut George Taylor (Heston) heads up a team of explorers on a
one-way trip into interstellar space. They crash-land on a planet
where they discover humans living in a primitive state. They don't
have much time to ponder this discovery, however, as the apes who
comprise the dominant species on the planet come to hunt down the
humans. One of Taylor's party is shot, while another one is captured.
Taylor himself is shot in the throat and is taken to be studied by
zoologist Dr. Zira (Hunter), who realizes there's something different
about this one. Once Taylor's throat heals and he can speak again, he
attempts to convince the apes that he's not a stupid beast like the
other humans — but it's not as simple as he hopes. Even Zira's
fiancée Cornelius (McDowall) takes some persuading. Orangutan
scientist and Defender of the Faith Dr. Zaius (Evans) realizes the
true implications of this human's appearance, however, and attempts
to have him sterilized before he can produce a new race of
intelligent humans. Zira and Cornelius arrange for Taylor to escape
and take him into the Forbidden Zone, where an archaeological dig
reveals that apes were not always the dominant species. Taylor sets
out on his own and discovers…well, you know.

Probably the biggest change between this first film version and the
book — and one which has affected even the "re-imagined" version — is
the decision of the original producers to make ape society a
relatively primitive one. Rod Serling's first draft of the script was
far more faithful to the book and presented the apes as being just as
advanced as we are. Boulle's ape society featured advanced brain
surgery, cars, planes — even television. But the costs of the ape
makeup and recreating an advanced technological society would have
been too great. The result is that, while the book makes the point
that ape society is as advanced as the human one in most ways while
behind us in others, the movie implies that even at their most
advanced, the apes cannot progress past a certain point. Of course,
while they live in Flintstones-style houses and use wagons for
transportation, they have enough metallurgical skill to make rifles
and bullets…

The first film version also dilutes many of the book's philosophical
themes and hunkers down in the social criticism instead — but it's a
social criticism that reflects a particular time period rather than
an all-inclusive view of humanity. PLANET OF THE APES is far more a
movie about civil rights than about the nature of intelligence —
bizarre, when you realize that the humans in the movie really aren't
social equals to the apes in any way, shape, or form. Lines from the
original film series like "The only good human is a dead human"
or "All humans look alike to most apes" may mirror the racist speech
of the 1960s, but to suggest that the ethnic groups under fire during
that period are anything like the mindless humans in the film would
itself be racist. Add to this the whole theme of youthful rebellion
and never trusting anyone over 30 and you have a film that only
indirectly covers the same social themes as the novel. It's no wonder
Boulle himself objected to the film so strongly — imagine what he
must have thought of the sequels!

In other respects, the film is surprisingly faithful to Boulle's
novel. The interaction between Taylor and Zira is directly taken from
the book, and Taylor's misanthropic character is based on Professor
Antelle and his desire to get away from the fellow humans that he
holds in disdain. But showing that humanity brought about its
downfall through the avoidable horrors of nuclear war and not the
unavoidable dumbing down of human culture dilutes Boulle's message,
even as it makes for one of the greatest moments in cinematic history.

PLANET OF THE APES (2001)

Rated: PG-13

Stars: Mark Wahlberg, Tim Roth, Helena Bonham Carter, Michael Clarke
Duncan, Kris Kristofferson, Estella Warren, Paul Giamatti

Writer(s): William Broyles Jr., Lawrence Konner, Mark Rosenthal

Director: Tim Burton

Grade: B- (as movie); D (as adaptation)

Astronaut Leo Davidson (Wahlberg) blasts off into a zone of unstable
space to rescue a trained chimpanzee and ends up crash-landing on a
planet where sentient humans are hunted by apes and turned into
slaves. After earning the animosity of General Thade (Roth) and
gaining the trust of human rights activist Ari (Bonham Carter), Leo
escapes and soon discovers the secret of how the apes became the
dominant species. With the help of Ari and human slave Daena
(Warren), Leo persuades his fellow humans to rise up against their
oppressors as he tries to find a way back to his own time and space.

It's obvious, even without giving much more of the plot away, that
the new film has just as little to do with Boulle's novel as it does
with the original film. Ironically, it's far more of a film about
civil rights than the first one, despite the continued watering down
of the plot elements. And yet the real surprise is that certain
elements of Boulle's novel that the original film ignored are taken
up here. Taylor, for instance, could care less about the treatment of
his fellow humans — he just wants to get away from the damned dirty
apes. Leo, on the other hand, acts as the same sort of savior for
this pack of humans that Ulysse hoped to be in the novel. The strange
romantic triangle between Ulysse, Zira, and Cornélius in the book is
recreated here in the equally bizarre triangle between Leo, Ari, and
Daena. But most amazingly, the surprise ending — which has garnered a
great deal of negative criticism and which usually causes film
audiences to laugh rather than gasp in horror — is the part that most
directly follows the book. The biggest problem is that, since the
rest of the film has so little to do with the book, tacking that
ending onto this film robs the surprise of all its impact.

We could hope that the second film (Obviously they thought there would be a second film.  Now we know better, don't we?) could use that last scene as an opportunity to go back and incorporate more elements from the plot of
the book. Unfortunately, that's not the way Hollywood works. Until someone gets enough capital (and interest) together to make a mini-series based on the novel — which would be the best way to present that material to its fullest — there's only one way to completely enjoy Boulle's original vision:

Learn to read French.




<.html<.html

.html.html In a message dated 8/18/06 7:07:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, apefan23@... writes:

Dianne Stanley

Actress - filmography

1. Speedway (1968) (uncredited) .... 3rd Waitress
2. Planet of the Apes (1968) (uncredited) ....
Stewart
... aka Monkey Planet
3. Bad Girls for the Boys (1966)

Joe Russo told me that someone had found Dianne Stanley somewhere and was trying to get her to appear at conventions.

He also told me that he talked to the guy who was Robert Gunner's agent and that Gunner quit acting after PLANET and moved to Paris and died there.

-- Rory
<.html<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

yes. The other name was Augusta Summerland. I think.

Kevin
PofTAfan

-----Original Message-----
From: ntfoster@...
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 9:08 AM
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Landon



Linda was also in Airport 75 with Chuck but I seem to remember that she
used a different name in that movie didn't she?

Neil


-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
Of tshaf37@...
Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 11:38 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Landon


I was looking at some of my apes books today and found out some of
the other roles the smaller actors went on to do and so on. Nova was in
Cocoon and the second one as well. I have never seen anything Landon
did ever? Was he the studio's nephew or something? Is Planet of the
apes his only claim to fame?

Tom

.html

Reminder from:		PotaDG's Calendar
Title:		On this day...
Date:		Saturday August 19, 2006
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Description:		1980: Astronauts' Virdon, Burke and Jones spacecraft encounters a radiation storm as it approaches Alpha Centari.

Copyright © 2006  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | <.html

i realized this morning that there is currently a
NASCAR racecar driver named Jeff Burton!

--- "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:

>
> Jeff Burton
>
> Date of birth
> 1925
> Date of death
> 18 January 1988
>
> Filmography as: Actor
>
> Actor - filmography?(1970s) (1960s)
>
> 0. Street Sisters (1974) .... Grandpa?... aka Black
> Hooker ?... aka Black Mama (USA: video title)
> 0. "The Snoop Sisters" ? - The Devil Made Me Do
> It
> (1974) TV Episode .... Phillips
> 0. The President's Plane Is Missing (1973) (TV) ....
> Reporter
> 0. Coffy (1973) .... Dr. Brannan
> 0. The Mad Bomber (1973) .... Sergeant Gribble?...
> aka
> Detective Geronimo ?... aka The Police Connection
> 0. The Manhunter (1972) (TV) .... Lester
> 0. "Night Gallery" ?... aka Rod Serling's Night
> Gallery (USA) ? - Green Fingers (1972) TV Episode
> .... Deputy
> 0. "Nanny and the Professor" ? - The Man Who Came
> to Pasta (1971) TV Episode .... Reporter
> 0. "The F.B.I." ? - The Deadly Pact (1970) TV
> Episode .... 2nd Agent
> 0. "The Bold Ones: The Lawyers" ?... aka The Lawyers
> ?
> - Panther in a Cage (1970) TV Episode ....
> Sergeant
> Jonas
> 0. "The Partridge Family" ? - A Partridge by Any
> Other Name (????) TV Episode .... Workman
> 0. "McCloud" ? - Manhattan Manhunt: Part 1: Horse
> Stealing on Fifth Avenue (1970) TV Episode .... 1st
> Reporter
> 0. "Bewitched" ? - Serena Stops the Show (1970)
> TV
> Episode .... Doorman? - Samantha Fights City Hall
> (1968) TV Episode .... Bulldozer Driver?
> 0. "Bracken's World" ? - The Chase Sequence
> (1969)
> TV Episode .... Doctor
> 0. Sweet Charity (1969) (uncredited) ....
> Policeman?... aka Sweet Charity: The Adventures of a
> Girl Who Wanted to Be Loved (USA: complete title)
> 0. "Dragnet 1967" ?... aka Dragnet (USA: syndication
> title) ?... aka Dragnet 1968 (USA: second season
> title) ?... aka Dragnet 1969 (USA: third season
> title)
> ?... aka Dragnet 1970 (USA: fourth season title) ?
>
> - Robbery - DR-15 (1968) TV Episode .... Sergeant
> Mac
> Johnson? - The Missing Realtor (1967) TV Episode
> .... Carl Keegan
> 0. "Cowboy in Africa" ? - Search and Destroy
> (1968)
> TV Episode .... Dr. Grambi
> 0. "Batman" ? - The Joker's Flying Saucer (1968)
> TV
> Episode .... Shamrock
> 0. Planet of the Apes (1968) .... Dodge?... aka
> Monkey
> Planet
> 0. "Tarzan" ? - The Ultimatum (1967) TV Episode
> .... Sergeant Luba? - Basil of the Bulge (1967)
> TV
> Episode .... Sergeant Nasamgali
> 0. In Like Flint (1967) (uncredited) .... Secret
> Service Agent
> 0. Madame X (1966) .... Bromley
> 0. "The Donna Reed Show" ? - No More Parties -
> Almost (1966) TV Episode .... Mailman
> 0. "Gidget" ? - Ringa-Ding-Dingbat (1966) TV
> Episode .... Driver Florist Truck
> 0. "The Fugitive" ? - Stranger in the Mirror
> (1965)
> TV Episode .... Berger
> 0. Git! (1965) .... Police Sergeant
> Great Gettin' Up Mornin' (1964) (TV) .... Jack
> Findlay?
>
> --- Neil T Foster <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> > Linda was also in Airport 75 with Chuck but I seem
> > to remember that she
> > used a different name in that movie didn't she?
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> > Of tshaf37@...
> > Sent: Friday, 18 August 2006 11:38 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Landon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I was looking at some of my apes books today and
> > found out some of the
> > other roles the smaller actors went on to do and
> so
> > on. Nova was in
> > Cocoon and the second one as well. I have never
> seen
> > anything Landon did
> > ever? Was he the studio's nephew or something? Is
> > Planet of the apes his
> > only claim to fame?
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 9:36 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] An Ape By Any Other Name…

This was posted in another group.  I thought Patrick might like to comment.  I'm sure he'll have an e-mail book to write.

From Cinescape Online
Dateline: Monday, July 30, 2001

An Ape By Any Other Name…

CINESCAPE compares the literary
and film exploits of Pierre Boulle's amazing apes

By: TONY WHITT, Correspondent

When Tim Burton first announced that his version of PLANET OF THE
APES would be a "re-imagining" and not a remake of the 1968 classic,
many fans were outraged. I imagine now that we've seen the results of
that "re-imagining, " they're even more upset — the two movies
couldn't be more different and yet still retain the same name. But
compared to the book on which the first movie was based — Pierre
Boulle's novel LA PLANÈTE DES SINGES — the shifts in both films are
even more radical, and the resemblances fairly surprising. Let's
begin by looking at the story that started the apes loping…

LA PLANÈTE DES SINGES

Author: Pierre Boulle

Publisher: René Juillard

Year: 1963

Grade: B+

Journalist Ulysse Mérou accompanies the misanthropic Professor
Antelle and his pupil Arthur Levain on an experimental flight to the
Betelgeuse system. While only two years pass aboard the ship, three
and a half centuries pass on Earth. They land on a planet they name
Soror and soon discover that the humans on the planet are little more
than beasts. One of the humans, a beautiful young woman whom Ulysse
names Nova, becomes attached to them. But they soon discover who the
true dominant species is when apes come to hunt for the humans for
the purpose of scientific experimentation — and for sport. Arthur is
killed during the hunt, and Ulysse is separated from Professor
Antelle and taken to a research institute. There, he attracts the
attention of a chimpanzee researcher named Zira, who notices that the
new human beast seems to be mimicking simian speech and actions.

After several degrading experiments, Ulysse manages to convince Zira
that he is a thinking creature, and she quickly teaches him the
simian language while he teaches her French. Despite the machinations
of the closed-minded Dr. Zaïus, an orangutan who represents the
official science, Zira and her fiancée Cornélius encourage Ulysse to
make a speech to the annual biological conference. Zaïus plans to
present Ulysse at the conference as a "tame man," but Ulysse's speech
convinces the assembled scientists, and he is given his freedom. He
becomes a celebrity, but it becomes a hollow victory when he
discovers that Professor Antelle has been kept in the zoo and has
reverted to an animalistic state. Ulysse observes the horrors that
his "spiritual brothers" are put through by the apes and comes to
believe he has a holy mission to revitalize humanity on Soror. He
becomes even more convinced when, in the course of an experiment on a
human woman's brain, the ape scientists access her race memory and
discover that humans were once the dominant species. Their intellect
slowly devolved through apathy, allowing the apes to mimic their
actions and evolve to their current state. This discovery is
supported by a thousand year old archaeological dig in which
Cornélius discovers traces of a human civilization that predates the
simian. Ulysse becomes even more convinced that he has been sent to
return the humans to their previous state.

Before he can make any plans for this holy revolution, he discovers
that Nova is pregnant with his child and that the scientists, headed
by the ousted Zaïus, plan to cut short the threat to simiankind that
this baby — and indeed Ulysse and Nova — represents. Zira and
Cornélius arrange to return Ulysse and his new family to his ship,
which is still in orbit around Soror, so that he can return to Earth.
But the outcome of the journey is not what he expects…

The most surprising thing about Boulle's novel is that it's not
science fiction at all. The science fiction elements, in fact, are
pretty pulpy, especially in Xan Fielding's English translation.
They're a bit easier to stomach in the original French, but it's
still jarring to hear Ulysse and Professor Antelle discussing
the "rocket" that brings them to Soror, or how often Ulysse refers to
Nova as "one of the loveliest females in the cosmos." (It's also
amusing that Ulysse is so parochially French all the way through the
book, even though he's supposedly from the cosmopolitan era of 2500
AD.) But LA PLANÈTE DES SINGES has more in common with the social
commentary of Jonathan Swift and the scientific pessimism of H. G.
Wells than any of the other science fiction published in the
early `60s. Boulle's themes deal with the human pretension of
believing that we are at the center of the universe and with the
nature of intelligence. The apes in the book are simply humans in
disguise, with human foibles and fears.

It's also an amazingly chilling satire — at the same time as you're
laughing at the apes' pompous statements that they are the only
creatures with souls, you realize that we've heard these statements
before from our own theologians and philosophers. Just as chilling
are the scenes in which Ulysse watches the brain surgery experiments
that allow the apes to discover their origins. This book should
probably be required reading for animal rights activists — Ulysse's
horror at the realization that human scientists have conducted
similar experiments on apes in our world is a pivotal moment in the
book. But the most frightening element of all is the cause of the
devolution of humanity, especially the extremely fast degeneration of
the intellectual Professor Antelle: it's not a lobotomy that removes
our intelligence so much as the simple lack of intellectual activity
and the apathy that accompanies such passivity. Taken as a statement
of social criticism, Boulle's novel serves as a warning: we could
easily be superceded by another species and our civilization ended
simply by our own complacency. The book suggests that what has
happened on Soror could happen even to us.

Despite the relative lack of action and the philosophical
underpinnings, fans of the film series will be pleased to find echoes
of this book not only in the first film but in the third, ESCAPE FROM
THE PLANET OF THE APES. The producers of that film must have found
the story of Ulysse Mérou's celebrity irresistible, especially given
that the implications surrounding the birth of Cornelius and Zira's
child in the movie are almost exactly the same as those surrounding
the birth of Nova's baby Sirius. (Yes, his name really is Sirius.
It's a very French book, you know.) Reading this book opens up a
completely different view of both the original film series and the
new film — even if you have to read it in translation.

PLANET OF THE APES (1968)

Rated: G

Stars: Charlton Heston, Kim Hunter, Roddy McDowall, Maurice Evans,
James Whitmore, Linda Harrison, James Daly, Buck Kartalian

Writer(s): Michael Wilson, Rod Serling

Director: Franklin J. Schaffner

Grade: A- (as movie); C (as adaptation)

Astronaut George Taylor (Heston) heads up a team of explorers on a
one-way trip into interstellar space. They crash-land on a planet
where they discover humans living in a primitive state. They don't
have much time to ponder this discovery, however, as the apes who
comprise the dominant species on the planet come to hunt down the
humans. One of Taylor's party is shot, while another one is captured.
Taylor himself is shot in the throat and is taken to be studied by
zoologist Dr. Zira (Hunter), who realizes there's something different
about this one. Once Taylor's throat heals and he can speak again, he
attempts to convince the apes that he's not a stupid beast like the
other humans — but it's not as simple as he hopes. Even Zira's
fiancée Cornelius (McDowall) takes some persuading. Orangutan
scientist and Defender of the Faith Dr. Zaius (Evans) realizes the
true implications of this human's appearance, however, and attempts
to have him sterilized before he can produce a new race of
intelligent humans. Zira and Cornelius arrange for Taylor to escape
and take him into the Forbidden Zone, where an archaeological dig
reveals that apes were not always the dominant species. Taylor sets
out on his own and discovers…well, you know.

Probably the biggest change between this first film version and the
book — and one which has affected even the "re-imagined" version — is
the decision of the original producers to make ape society a
relatively primitive one. Rod Serling's first draft of the script was
far more faithful to the book and presented the apes as being just as
advanced as we are. Boulle's ape society featured advanced brain
surgery, cars, planes — even television. But the costs of the ape
makeup and recreating an advanced technological society would have
been too great. The result is that, while the book makes the point
that ape society is as advanced as the human one in most ways while
behind us in others, the movie implies that even at their most
advanced, the apes cannot progress past a certain point. Of course,
while they live in Flintstones- style houses and use wagons for
transportation, they have enough metallurgical skill to make rifles
and bullets…

The first film version also dilutes many of the book's philosophical
themes and hunkers down in the social criticism instead — but it's a
social criticism that reflects a particular time period rather than
an all-inclusive view of humanity. PLANET OF THE APES is far more a
movie about civil rights than about the nature of intelligence —
bizarre, when you realize that the humans in the movie really aren't
social equals to the apes in any way, shape, or form. Lines from the
original film series like "The only good human is a dead human"
or "All humans look alike to most apes" may mirror the racist speech
of the 1960s, but to suggest that the ethnic groups under fire during
that period are anything like the mindless humans in the film would
itself be racist. Add to this the whole theme of youthful rebellion
and never trusting anyone over 30 and you have a film that only
indirectly covers the same social themes as the novel. It's no wonder
Boulle himself objected to the film so strongly — imagine what he
must have thought of the sequels!

In other respects, the film is surprisingly faithful to Boulle's
novel. The interaction between Taylor and Zira is directly taken from
the book, and Taylor's misanthropic character is based on Professor
Antelle and his desire to get away from the fellow humans that he
holds in disdain. But showing that humanity brought about its
downfall through the avoidable horrors of nuclear war and not the
unavoidable dumbing down of human culture dilutes Boulle's message,
even as it makes for one of the greatest moments in cinematic history.

PLANET OF THE APES (2001)

Rated: PG-13

Stars: Mark Wahlberg, Tim Roth, Helena Bonham Carter, Michael Clarke
Duncan, Kris Kristofferson, Estella Warren, Paul Giamatti

Writer(s): William Broyles Jr., Lawrence Konner, Mark Rosenthal

Director: Tim Burton

Grade: B- (as movie); D (as adaptation)

Astronaut Leo Davidson (Wahlberg) blasts off into a zone of unstable
space to rescue a trained chimpanzee and ends up crash-landing on a
planet where sentient humans are hunted by apes and turned into
slaves. After earning the animosity of General Thade (Roth) and
gaining the trust of human rights activist Ari (Bonham Carter), Leo
escapes and soon discovers the secret of how the apes became the
dominant species. With the help of Ari and human slave Daena
(Warren), Leo persuades his fellow humans to rise up against their
oppressors as he tries to find a way back to his own time and space.

It's obvious, even without giving much more of the plot away, that
the new film has just as little to do with Boulle's novel as it does
with the original film. Ironically, it's far more of a film about
civil rights than the first one, despite the continued watering down
of the plot elements. And yet the real surprise is that certain
elements of Boulle's novel that the original film ignored are taken
up here. Taylor, for instance, could care less about the treatment of
his fellow humans — he just wants to get away from the damned dirty
apes. Leo, on the other hand, acts as the same sort of savior for
this pack of humans that Ulysse hoped to be in the novel. The strange
romantic triangle between Ulysse, Zira, and Cornélius in the book is
recreated here in the equally bizarre triangle between Leo, Ari, and
Daena. But most amazingly, the surprise ending — which has garnered a
great deal of negative criticism and which usually causes film
audiences to laugh rather than gasp in horror — is the part that most
directly follows the book. The biggest problem is that, since the
rest of the film has so little to do with the book, tacking that
ending onto this film robs the surprise of all its impact.

We could hope that the second film (Obviously they thought there would be a second film.  Now we know better, don't we?) could use that last scene as an opportunity to go back and incorporate more elements from the plot of
the book. Unfortunately, that's not the way Hollywood works. Until someone gets enough capital (and interest) together to make a mini-series based on the novel — which would be the best way to present that material to its fullest — there's only one way to completely enjoy Boulle's original vision:

Learn to read French.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 8:58 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Landon

Jeff Burton

Date of birth
1925
Date of death
18 January 1988

Filmography as: Actor

Actor - filmography? (1970s) (1960s)

0. Street Sisters (1974) .... Grandpa?... aka Black
Hooker ?... aka Black Mama (USA: video title)
0. "The Snoop Sisters" ? - The Devil Made Me Do It
(1974) TV Episode .... Phillips
0. The President's Plane Is Missing (1973) (TV) ....
Reporter
0. Coffy (1973) .... Dr. Brannan
0. The Mad Bomber (1973) .... Sergeant Gribble?... aka
Detective Geronimo ?... aka The Police Connection
0. The Manhunter (1972) (TV) .... Lester
0. "Night Gallery" ?... aka Rod Serling's Night
Gallery (USA) ? - Green Fingers (1972) TV Episode
..... Deputy
0. "Nanny and the Professor" ? - The Man Who Came
to Pasta (1971) TV Episode .... Reporter
0. "The F.B.I." ? - The Deadly Pact (1970) TV
Episode .... 2nd Agent
0. "The Bold Ones: The Lawyers" ?... aka The Lawyers ?
- Panther in a Cage (1970) TV Episode .... Sergeant
Jonas
0. "The Partridge Family" ? - A Partridge by Any
Other Name (????) TV Episode .... Workman
0. "McCloud" ? - Manhattan Manhunt: Part 1: Horse
Stealing on Fifth Avenue (1970) TV Episode .... 1st
Reporter
0. "Bewitched" ? - Serena Stops the Show (1970) TV
Episode .... Doorman? - Samantha Fights City Hall
(1968) TV Episode .... Bulldozer Driver?
0. "Bracken's World" ? - The Chase Sequence (1969)
TV Episode .... Doctor
0. Sweet Charity (1969) (uncredited) ....
Policeman?.. . aka Sweet Charity: The Adventures of a
Girl Who Wanted to Be Loved (USA: complete title)
0. "Dragnet 1967" ?... aka Dragnet (USA: syndication
title) ?... aka Dragnet 1968 (USA: second season
title) ?... aka Dragnet 1969 (USA: third season title)
?... aka Dragnet 1970 (USA: fourth season title) ?
- Robbery - DR-15 (1968) TV Episode .... Sergeant Mac
Johnson? - The Missing Realtor (1967) TV Episode
..... Carl Keegan
0. "Cowboy in Africa" ? - Search and Destroy (1968)
TV Episode .... Dr. Grambi
0. "Batman" ? - The Joker's Flying Saucer (1968) TV
Episode .... Shamrock
0. Planet of the Apes (1968) .... Dodge?... aka Monkey
Planet
0. "Tarzan" ? - The Ultimatum (1967) TV Episode
..... Sergeant Luba? - Basil of the Bulge (1967) TV
Episode .... Sergeant Nasamgali
0. In Like Flint (1967) (uncredited) .... Secret
Service Agent
0. Madame X (1966) .... Bromley
0. "The Donna Reed Show" ? - No More Parties -
Almost (1966) TV Episode .... Mailman
0. "Gidget" ? - Ringa-Ding-Dingbat (1966) TV
Episode .... Driver Florist Truck
0. "The Fugitive" ? - Stranger in the Mirror (1965)
TV Episode .... Berger
0. Git! (1965) .... Police Sergeant
Great Gettin' Up Mornin' (1964) (TV) .... Jack
Findlay?

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 10:26 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Ms Stanley

Imagine the photos of decayed Stewart she’d be signing for the POTA fans!

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 8:58 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Landon

Linda's other name was Augusta Summerland.

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 1:51 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Anniversary Reminder

Reminder from:		PotaDG's Calendar
Title:		On this day...
Date:		Saturday August 19, 2006
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Description:		1980: Astronauts' Virdon, Burke and Jones spacecraft encounters a radiation storm as it approaches Alpha Centari.

Copyright © 2006  Yahoo! Inc.  All Rights Reserved | | Privacy Policy

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 10:25 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Joe WHO?

Who’s Joe Russo?

Is he the dude that rejected an article “written” by “the” Chris Lawless?

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 9:41 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Landon

He also told me that he talked to the guy who was Robert Gunner's agent and that Gunner quit acting after PLANET and moved to Paris and died there.

.

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 8/18/06 8:31:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Is he the dude that rejected an article "written" by "the" Chris Lawless?

Michael

What's that all about?  I haven't talked to Russo in months, so I have know idea what's going on.

-- Rory<.html <.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, 17 August 2006 3:26 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Speciesism?

I disagree.  She threw her career away to help him.

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 10:31 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Landon

i realized this morning that there is currently a
NASCAR racecar driver named Jeff Burton!

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 8:58 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Landon

 and Jeff Burton are both dead. Here's
their complete credits.....

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendy Kostora
Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 1:59 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] A Name by any other Name.....

Augusta Summerland reminds you of porn???! Come on! Both words refer to time (moon - as in the month- August) and summerland which refers to the earth and the season. It is hardly a studpid name unless you guys are all nature haters. Oh yes, I forgot, its tied to Linda Harrison who is a bimbo - all boobs no brain, right???! You know, she isn't that bad or stupid. She did the screen test for Zira's part. She can act. Not as good as some people I know, but she can act better then some those who on the silver screen these days. Not to mention that she is approachable. She was very nice to friend of mine who a true POTA fan and a genius, lost his life to his heart condition a few years ago. He loved the name Augusta Summerland.

.

<.html

She also did the pilot for the Wonder Woman television series back in
the 60's.

Kevin
PofTAfan

-----Original Message-----
From: whitty@...
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 4:56 PM
Subject: [PotaDG] A Name by any other Name.....



She did a screen test?



I thought she was just sleeping with Zanuck! J

Michael



-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
Of Wendy Kostora
Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 1:59 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [PotaDG] A Name by any other Name.....



Augusta Summerland reminds you of porn???! Come on! Both words
refer to time (moon - as in the month- August) and summerland which
refers to the earth and the season. It is hardly a studpid name unless
you guys are all nature haters. Oh yes, I forgot, its tied to Linda
Harrison who is a bimbo - all boobs no brain, right???! You know, she
isn't that bad or stupid. She did the screen test for Zira's part. She
can act. Not as good as some people I know, but she can act better then
some those who on the silver screen these days. Not to mention that she
is approachable. She was very nice to friend of mine who a true POTA
fan and a genius, lost his life to his heart condition a few years ago.
He loved the name Augusta Summerland.

Wendy

--------

From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
Reply-To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [PotaDG] A Name by any other Name.....
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:21:00 +1000

It sounds like a porn star name!



-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
Of Neil T Foster
Sent: Sunday, 20 August 2006 9:26 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [PotaDG] Landon



-- That was it. Pretty stupid name though.





Neil



-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 8:58 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Landon

Linda's other name was Augusta Summerland.















--

I almost hate to mention it, but in the horrid HORRID
movie version of "THE AVENGERS" starring Ralph Fiennes
and Uma Thurman, the villain played by Sean Connery --
who could control the weather -- was named "August de
Winter"... August-to-Winter, get it? He could change a
summer weather into wintry weather.

Ye gods, but that movie sucked!

Patrick


--- Michael Whitty <whitty@...> wrote:

> She did a screen test?
>
> I thought she was just sleeping with Zanuck! :-)
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Wendy Kostora
> Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 1:59 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [PotaDG] A Name by any other
> Name.....
>
> Augusta Summerland reminds you of porn???! Come on!
> Both words refer to
> time (moon - as in the month- August) and summerland
> which refers to the
> earth and the season. It is hardly a studpid name
> unless you guys are
> all nature haters. Oh yes, I forgot, its tied to
> Linda Harrison who is a
> bimbo - all boobs no brain, right???! You know, she
> isn't that bad or
> stupid. She did the screen test for Zira's part. She
> can act. Not as
> good as some people I know, but she can act better
> then some those who
> on the silver screen these days. Not to mention that
> she is
> approachable. She was very nice to friend of mine
> who a true POTA fan
> and a genius, lost his life to his heart condition a
> few years ago. He
> loved the name Augusta Summerland.
> Wendy
>
> _____
>
> From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
> Reply-To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [PotaDG] A Name by any other Name.....
> Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 11:21:00 +1000
> It sounds like a porn star name!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Neil T Foster
> Sent: Sunday, 20 August 2006 9:26 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [PotaDG] Landon
>
> -- That was it. Pretty stupid name though.
>
> Neil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 8:58 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Landon
> Linda's other name was Augusta Summerland.
>
> --
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil T Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:

>
> -- And still he doesn't let or help Taylor disarm it, which says a

lot about Zaius' character.

>
> Neil
>

---------------------------------------------------------------

*** He says, "You ask me to help YOU??? Man is evil, capable of
nothing but destruction!" He says this in the nuked-out ruins of the
former "paradise" that Man had reduced to a "desert... ages ago".

Zaius believes that Taylor -- that ALL humans -- are inherently evil
and destructive.

And Taylor seems to prove him right, by purposely reaching out as he
falls to trigger that Doomsday Bomb explosion. He doesn't
ACCIDENTALLY fall on it, the way Michael Avallone's error-filled
novelization has it. Taylor, in the movie, calls Zaius a "bloody
bastard" and reaches out his right hand to clutch that trigger. He
WANTS to end the world -- he so much as said so, when he blurted
out: "Zaius... it's the end of the world... help me!"

How does Taylor KNOW it's the end of the world??? Ursus had been
about to press the trigger, when Brent diverted his attention by
banging the rifle butt on the keyboard of the organ. Zaius knows that
those controls do things to this device which he knows is a "weapon
built by Man" which will kill them all if detonated -- one of the
crystals, when depressed, caused the missile to arise from
its "silo", he could see.

When Taylor asks Zaius to help him, it seems like he's giving Zaius a
test: IF Zaius is willing to set aside his anti-human sentiments and
give aid to him, THEN Taylor will spare the world and all those on
it, leaving it under the control of the Ape society. IF Zaius is
willing to meet Taylor half-way, then maybe the Ape society ruling
that corner of the planet will begin to treat the humans in their
vicinity with dignity again.

But... Zaius refuses to divest himself of his anti-human views, and
Taylor judges all the Apes by Zaius' example. Since Zaius won't make
peace with a human, the Apes as a whole won't make peace with
Humanity, and the rest of future history will be nothing more than
the same "inhuman" story that induced Taylor to leave the 20th
Century behind in the first place:

"Does Man, that marvel of the universe, that glorious paradox who
sent me to the stars, STILL make war against his brother? keep his
neighbor's children starving?"

It was bad enough how Man treated his fellow Man. That ever-present
type of conflict had merely taken on a new form, with Apes
mistreating Humans... Mutant humans mistreating both Apes and non-
mutant Humans... on and on, eternally.

Taylor had gone into Space seeking "something better than Man" --
which HAS to exist... right? RIGHT???

Evidently not. He didn't find it -- except, perhaps, when he found
Nova. But, with her dead, what the hell else is there worth fighting
for? Look what it comes to...

I think Taylor commits what he -- in his dying moment -- considers to
be a form of Euthanasia, a "Mercy-killing". Like Frankenstein's
monster at the end of "THE BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN", he thinks that "We
belong dead." He lost his faith in Man... in the Apes... in himself.
So he, unwarrantedly acting on (selfish) behalf of all intelligent
Earth creatures, commits suicide... genocide... Gaiacide.

Happiness is a warm Doomsday Bomb.

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@... wrote:

>
>
> In a message dated 8/17/06 8:10:40 PM Central Daylight Time,
> atragon1@... writes:
>
> Unless the role of "archeologist" was created by the council as a

propaganda mechanism means to cloak the true explanation of where
these artifacts came from.

>
>
>
> I don't think it was totally created for that propaganda purposes,

but there's no doubt that at least those "backed" by the authorities
are in such a postion... By that I mean: The ones "backed" by Zaius
and the like DO "cloak the true explanation" of what the artifacts
are/were... Remember the line Zaius says to Taylor in the cave
(paraphrased here) : "There are geologists on my staff that would
laugh at your speculations..."

>
> I think that says it all... The are employed by the higher ups and

they say exactly what the higher ups want to hear/want them to say...

>

------------------------------------------------------------------

*** The Ape culture is thought by the Apes (not including Zaius, who
is one of the few who know better) to date back only to the time of
the Lawgiver. Cornelius' claim to have found artifacts dating to an
era "long before the Sacred Scrolls were written" is deemed to
be "profane".

As long as the dig-zones for archaeologists are restricted to certain
areas, then 1,200 years is a long time to accumulate artifacts that
would interest historians. As we speak, there are archaeological digs
in North America trying to uncover more information about the first
English settlements, dating back no more than 500 years.

Remember, it is a violation of simian ecclesiastical law to venture
into the Forbidden Zone, and this must mean that Zaius (and those who
enforce the laws) aren't afraid of having archaologists uncover any
pre-Lawgiver era artifacts in those inhabited areas where diggers are
allowed to dig. Zaius seems to know that there's nothing to find in
the "allowed" zones that will contradict Established History.

For some reason, Cornelius -- a year prior to PLANET -- had gotten up
the gumption to violate their ancient taboo and do illicit digging in
the Forbidden Zone. He must've at least suspected that there was
something there to dig up in order to have gone through all the
trouble of organizing an expedition AND working to deceive Zaius (et
al.) regarding the site of his diggings.

"Question Authority" -- that sentiment must've been running through
the minds of a number of chimp scientists. Zira herself questions
whether or not their Sacred Scrolls scriptures are worth the
parchment they're printed on.

Zaius cancelled Cornelius' travel permit after seeing some of the
artifacts he had dug up -- things he must've KNOWN could only have
been dug up in the Forbidden Zone. But Zaius must not have actually
caught him in the Forbidden Zone, otherwise he would've had him
punished for it then-and-there. When Zira tells a still-mute Taylor
about Cornelius' trip to the Forbidden Zone a year earlier, she says
it sotto voce -- almost in a whisper, just in case anybody outside
were to be able to overhear her. Zaius, as yet, may SUSPECT
something, but he can't PROVE it.

That's one of the reasons he tells Taylor that he "did the State a
service, allowing [them] to expose Zira and Cornelius": by putting
Taylor on trial, they were able to get both Zira and her fiancee to
admit to the fact that he had been to the Forbidden Zone. When
Cornelius says that Taylor had to have come from somewhere beyond the
Forbidden Zone, due to his having described the area ACCURATELY, he
reluctantly backs this up by adding, "... for I have been there."

THAT is what Zaius was waiting for. The President of the Academy
reacts with astonishment, and it seems (to me) that he didn't even
suspect this beforehand. But ZAIUS did. That's why he quietly tells
that other ape, "Let them TALK, Mister President... let them talk."

He's giving Cornelius the rope to hang himself with. But Cornelius
would never have gotten in trouble had he not "exceeded his
authority" and traveled beyond the bounds allowed by his Travel
Permit. He snuck into the Forbidden Zone... dug up artifacts in a
site there... and all-the-while pretended that he'd dug 'em up
somewhere within the legally-permitted areas. But Zaius, suspecting
this (due to the nature of the "worthless" artifacts), couldn't PROVE
it... NOT until he put Cornelius in a position where he was compelled
to confess to it, in order to (pridefully) bolster his expert opinion
in that Tribunal. Both Cornelius and Zira gave vent to their
unorthodox views which they held with professional pride, and
suffered the consequences.

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , Haristas@... wrote:

>
> This was posted in another group. I thought Patrick might like to

comment. I'm sure he'll have an e-mail book to write.

*** Well, I don't. We all know the differences between Boulle's
novel, POTA (1968) and POTA "Re-Imagined", and I'm sure we all have
seen filmic adaptations of novels which aren't exactly "faithful" to
the original.

I would like to see a faithful adaptation of Boulle's novel,
preferably done by a French director, with dialogue in French (etc).
The source is a foreign novel, so why not have the movie be a foreign
film, subtitled in English?

All the same, I'm glad that the 1968 film version took the liberties
it did, even if Boulle objected to those changes. He must not have
been TOO upset since he was willing to bang out his "PLANET OF THE
MEN" screenplay as a sequel, rather than wholly wash his hands of the
20th Century Fox film version.

Patrick

.html.html In a message dated 8/20/06 12:00:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Willowape@... writes:

She was very nice to friend of mine who a true POTA fan and a genius, lost his life to his heart condition a few years ago. He loved the name Augusta Summerland.


Wendy

The only problem I have with the name is it's too long.  Anyway, when she dropped the guru that suggested it, she dropped the name.

Oh, and by the way, someday we'll all be dead -- then who will be the APES fans?  Something that'll fall out of a tree, perhaps?

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 8/20/06 10:01:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

He must not have
been TOO upset since he was willing to bang out his "PLANET OF THE
MEN" screenplay as a sequel, rather than wholly wash his hands of the
20th Century Fox film version.

Patrick

I don't know... that PLANET OF THE MEN script is bloody awful.  Seemed like a cynical effort on his part, to me.  Like he did it for the money or something.<.html <.html

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Battle finally made a Top 10 list . . .

Well, Top 7 anyway.

 

Cinematical Seven: The 1970s' Freakiest Sci-Fi Flicks - Cinematical

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In a message dated 8/20/2006 4:40:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@... writes:

No one said she was stupid either.

 

I think I did once.

 

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In a message dated 8/20/2006 9:52:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Haristas@... writes:

she dropped the guru that suggested it

Oh yeah, the guru...

That's why I called her stupid.

 

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In a message dated 8/21/2006 12:05:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time, TZer0@... writes:

That's why I called her stupid.

On the other hand she did use what she

to the fullest, and that certainly was smart.

 

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