Attachments :

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , atragon1@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 8/20/2006 9:32:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:
> And Taylor seems to prove him right, by purposely reaching out as

he falls to trigger that Doomsday Bomb explosion. He doesn't
ACCIDENTALLY fall on it, the way Michael Avallone's error-filled
novelization has it. Taylor, in the movie, calls Zaius a "bloody
bastard" and reaches out his right hand to clutch that trigger. He
WANTS to end the world -- he so much as said so, when he blurted
out: "Zaius... it's the end of the world... help me!"

> No, Taylor does not intentionally destroy the world. He knows the

world may end if the right action is not taken. His triggering of the
bomb is purely unintentional. He is clearly mortally wounded and is
reaching out to Zaius for help. Why would Taylor say "help me" if he
wanted the world to end?

>
> If one is wounded with a gunshot to the chest, I don't think they

would be thinking: "OK... I will decide right now if the world will
end or not ... and the pivotal decision will rest on the sympathy of
this creature before me who tortured me, tried to spade me, and
stuffed/lobtomized my companions.. if he shows mercy, then I will
spare the earth.."

>
> Taylor expresses no love for the world in the first film, but he

knows that there are beings like Cornelius and Zira out there who are
sympathetic to humans. He would not be so "heavy-handed" (so to
speak) as to willingly destroy the world.

>
> Bill
>

-------------------------------------------------------------

*** Taylor expressed no love for the world as it was when he left it,
true, but during his first scene (his "Final Report") he expresses
the hope that things got better on Earth. "The men who sent us on
this journey are long since dead and gone. You who are reading me now
are A DIFFERENT BREED, I HOPE A BETTER ONE. I leave the 20th Century
with no regrets..." -- because he left behind 20th Century's breed of
Mankind, which he had come to loathe. But, having left behind 20th
Century Man, he has no idea what 27th Century Man is like.

He asks a question he does NOT know the answer to: "Does Man, that
marvel of the universe, that glorious paradox who sent me to the
stars... STILL make war against his brother?... keep his neighbor's
children starving?"

In other words, did Man remain as loathsome as Taylor remembered
them? Did they get worse? Or, as he hoped, did Mankind somehow
IMPROVE over the centuries?

He indicates to Landon that they probably DID improve, since he tells
Landon that "Even if you COULD get back, they'd think you were
something that fell out of a tree!" Future Earthmen, humans alive on
Earth in 3978 or later, would be as evolved beyond 20th Century Man
as we are above the monkeys in the trees, Taylor seems to believe.

After he discovers he's been on Earth the whole time... discovers
that Mankind regressed to the state of mute animals, only to be
replaced by Apes who've "aped" all of Man's worst traits... Taylor's
disillusionment is virtually complete. How his estimate of things
progress LATER, when he is abducted by those telepathic, insane bomb-
worshipping Mutants, we can only guess, and I'm guessin' his estimate
of Man's chances are pretty much less than zero. All the time when
Brent is with Nova, on their journey to find Taylor, Taylor has been
sitting in that prison cell. Doing what? Contemplating the
predicament HE is in... and that the WORLD is in. He doesn't know why
he's been taken prisoner... why he is being kept alive, for the
moment. All he has to do is THINK, to ponder the state of the world.

When Nova's life is taken away, he is just about to the point of
letting things go all to hell: "I should let them ALL die! The
gorillas, every damn-- Look what it comes to!"

Brent: "C'mon, Taylor... the Bomb!"

Taylor: "Yeah... why not?"

Why not WHAT, we might ask? Why not dismantle it, so as to prevent it
from ending everything? Or, why not TRIGGER IT, so as to end
everything, the way he had just implied it would happen.

If they (Taylor and Brent) do nothing, then the Bomb will probably be
triggered by one of the Mutants. If the Apes kill all the Mutants,
then one of the Apes might accidentally trigger it, not knowing that
those levers are controls which activate certain functions. Ursus,
remember, ALMOST triggers the Bomb, thinking that he can "find a way"
to stop the Bomb from venting that steam by fiddling around with
those crystal controls. Brent has to divert his attention in order to
keep him from making a monstrous mistake. Notice that Taylor never
bothered to yell out, "DON'T TOUCH THAT! IT'LL BLOW UP THE WORLD!" He
COULD have risked his life, in order to keep Ursus from accidentally
blowing up the world, but he does NOTHING: perhaps he was hoping
Ursus would blow up the world so that he himself wouldn't HAVE to,
and he could die as one of the victims of Earth-ocide rather than the
one to commit that act.

The fact is that Taylor specifically informs Zaius that "... it's
Doomsday... the end of the world..." and he can ONLY know this if he
knows that the Bomb WILL BE DETONATED. He's close enough to the
Bomb's controls to do this himself, so that MUST be what he's
referring to: HE HIMSELF INTENDS TO DETONATE THE BOMB... unless Zaius
can convince him otherwise, by somehow convincing him that people can
change. That Zaius, whose actions betrayed a hatred of the human race
["... the sooner [Man] is exterminated, the better!"], can put aside
that hatred and help an avowed enemy.

In his dying moments, Taylor begs Zaius to help him. How can Zaius
help him??? Can Zaius save Taylor from the effects of those bullets
Ursus fired into him? Absolutely NOT. Taylor KNOWS he's dying, and
that nothing can prevent it: what he wants Zaius to "help" him with
is to change his mind about the prospective future of the Earth, to
convince him NOT to detonate the Bomb. The future of the planet lies
in how Zaius responds to Taylor.

Alas, his response is to shout, "You ask me to help YOU??? Man is
evil, capable of nothing but destruction!"

Having gotten the answer he probably expected to get, though one
which some small part of him hoped he WOULDN'T get, Taylor --
reaching out NOT for Zaius to help him, but for that Doomsday Bomb
trigger, calls Zaius, "You... bloody bastard...!"

If his body had fallen atop that dais of controls, THEN I might buy
into the notion that the Bomb was triggered by accident. But Taylor's
hand is reaching out for that control lever, and this is AFTER he's
gotten his rebuff from Zaius. When he, earlier, had asked Zaius to
help him, he did NOT reach out for that "help"; he reaches out AFTER
being rebuffed, as he calls him a "bloody bastard".

It's the end of the world because Taylor -- even though he was dying
from gunshot wounds -- had it within his power to end the world, all
by the triggering of that one switch. He TELLS Zaius that "it's
Doomsday, the end of the world" -- and it is HE that holds the fate
of the world in his hand. The word "doom" means JUDGMENT, and that
implies a JUDGE -- Taylor alone knew that the "Alpha Omega" bomb was
called "the Doomsday Bomb", meaning that it was intended by its
creators to be detonated as a form of JUDGMENT, not by any God in
heaven, but by a Man. Taylor, when he agreed to be a part of the
interstellar mission, knew that the construction of such a bomb was
in the planning stages: when Brent tells him about the bomb he saw
the Mutants worshipping, with the two Greek letters on one of the
fins, Alpha and--"

"--and Omega." Taylor KNOWS that "they FINALLY built one, with a
cobalt casing" (etc). When he left Earth, he knew such a bomb MIGHT
be constructed. Now he finds out that they DID build one, but never
triggered it.

When he confronts Zaius at the finale, Taylor fully intends to be the
judge on Doomsday. Perhaps he's just going through the motions,
knowing full well that there's really no chance that Zaius is gonna
do a one-eighty and be all nicy-nice to him, to Mankind. He COULD
just put his hand on the trigger, tell Zaius to kiss his ass as he
kisses the whole world goodbye, and then blow up the whole kit and
kaboodle... but he gives the world ONE LAST CHANCE. And it's all up
to Zaius, to how he responds to a plea for help from a human. It
isn't enough to know that some apes are good -- like Zira, Cornelius,
and Lucius -- Taylor must know if it is possible for an ANTAGONIST,
for a human-HATING Ape like Zaius, an ape who has been in a position
of authority and who USED that authority to commit acts against a
hated enemy, to CHANGE. If Zaius can change... then MAYBE there's
hope for the world.

Zaius, who has just seen an Ape Army slaughter unarmed civilians,
must know that the Apes are not the superior species with holier-than-
thou morals setting them above their enemies... but he still can't
cotton to the notion that Man is anything but an evil, destructive
race.

Zaius KNOWS that the Bomb "will kill us all" if it is triggered. He
KNOWS this... and STILL he gives Taylor his rebuff. You would THINK
that Zaius, seeing Taylor so close to the control panel, would do
ANYTHING to placate him, to avert the ending of the world. But Zaius,
alas, is too full of the same "bile" that Zira accuses the gorillas
of having. He is utterly UNWILLING to make peace with Mankind. All
through his secret career as "the Guardian of the Terrible Secret"
[of Man's prehistoric superior civilization] he has done what he has
done -- what his ancestors had done -- in order to "save" the Future
for the Ape youngsters, like Lucius who had asked him about that.

Zaius would "save" the Future by keeping Man subjugated -- preferably
exterminated. That's his "solution" to the problem of Man: a FINAL
SOLUTION. He would rather face the prospect of the whole world coming
down around him than change his mind and opt for a compromise path of
reconciliation with the Enemy. Look at Hitler in his fuhrerbunker,
defiant of the Allies -- his Enemies -- to the last, as Berlin was
reduced to utter ruin, a ruin HE could've prevented by surrendering.
But, no. Zaius, like Hitler, would rather have the world come
crashing down around him than compromise his racist principles.

That is what Taylor saw in his response to a "Help me!" plea. The
Apes are just as rotten as Man ever had been. In Taylor's eyes, there
is now NO HOPE for the world. He's given up hoping for anything
better, from either Man or Ape. What he went seeking in Outer Space
["something better than Man"] wasn't there to be found.

So, he passes judgment on the world. "It's DOOMSDAY..." -- Judgment
Day, with him as the Judge. The end of the world. He KNOWS it, and
Zaius knows it, too. And both of 'em, that individual Ape and that
individual Man, holding the fate of their respective races AND the
whole world in their hands, choose to continue the unending
antagonism between their kinds.

Until Taylor puts an "end" to it.

To reduce Taylor's final act to an unintentional mistake is to rob it
of its greatest significance. If you compare this movie's END with
its BEGINNING, it's all the more relevant: the film begins with
Cornelius reciting from the Sacred Scrolls --

BEWARE the beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn.
Alone among God's primates, he kills for Sport, or Lust, or Greed.
Yea, he will MURDER HIS BROTHER to possess his brother's land.
Let him not breed in great numbers, for HE WILL MAKE A DESERT OF HIS
HOME AND YOURS.
Shun him!
[Drive him back into his jungle lair -- Note: this line is edited
from "BENEATH" even though it's part of this passage in "PLANET"]
... for he is THE HARBINGER OF DEATH.

The word "harbinger" means "person or thing that announces or signals
the approach of another" and that is EXACTLY what Taylor did when he
told Zaius that "It's DOOMSDAY, THE END OF THE WORLD..." He was the
harbinger of the End of the World, the "death" of everything on
Earth. Triggering that bomb, he knew, would "burn the whole planet to
a cinder... how's THAT for your ultimate weapon?"

There's a reason "BENEATH" began with that quote from the simian
scriptures. It ties in with how the film ENDS. And it tells us
everything we need to know about the significance of Taylor's last
act.

Accident? Hardly! It was INTENTIONAL. Remember how Taylor tells Zaius
that there were no weapons found in Cornelius' cave, which he thinks
makes the simian hatred of Man unwarranted, all that talk about
Man "giving battle to everything around him, even himself!"

"The Forbidden Zone was once a Paradise. YOUR breed made a DESERT of
it, ages ago!"

What kind of "weapon" is capable of doing THAT??? Only a nuke, which
is why Taylor, seeing the Statue of Liberty, knows that Man destroyed
his own civilization with nukes: "You maniacs! You BLEW IT UP!"

When he shouts "Damn you! God damn you all to hell!" he is literally
calling upon God to render a JUDGMENT. A "doom".

Then, at the end of "BENEATH" he finds himself within triggering
distance of a "doomsday bomb"... and he tells Zaius that it IS
doomsday, the end of the world.

Then, a moment later, he reaches out for that trigger and pulls it
down. Taylor becomes Judge, Jury, and Executioner. Of the world.

It's no wonder that Zaius -- who had awaited Taylor's coming for all
his life -- DREADED it, like DEATH ITSELF. None of the mute,
unintelligent savage humans had the ability to do what Taylor alone
(of Men) could do. Taylor KNEW the destructive potential of that
Bomb, and he triggered it. Taylor, a Man with all the destructive
potential of his race, was something to be feared. Zaius does what he
does "out of FEAR" -- "What are you afraid of, Doctor?!!!"

At the end of "BENEATH" we find out.

Patrick

Well said, Patrick -- I agree 100%. He reaches out to Zaius to help him
stop the destruction, but even then all Zaius
can do is scorn him for being human. At that point, having lost Nova,
having lost his fellow astronauts, having seen
that the world has not gotten better, he decides to end it all.


Original Message:
-----------------
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

>

-------------------------------------------------------------

*** Taylor expressed no love for the world as it was when he left it,
true, but during his first scene (his "Final Report") he expresses
the hope that things got better on Earth. "The men who sent us on
this journey are long since dead and gone. You who are reading me now
are A DIFFERENT BREED, I HOPE A BETTER ONE. I leave the 20th Century
with no regrets..." -- because he left behind 20th Century's breed of
Mankind, which he had come to loathe. But, having left behind 20th
Century Man, he has no idea what 27th Century Man is like.

He asks a question he does NOT know the answer to: "Does Man, that
marvel of the universe, that glorious paradox who sent me to the
stars... STILL make war against his brother?... keep his neighbor's
children starving?"

In other words, did Man remain as loathsome as Taylor remembered
them? Did they get worse? Or, as he hoped, did Mankind somehow
IMPROVE over the centuries?

He indicates to Landon that they probably DID improve, since he tells
Landon that "Even if you COULD get back, they'd think you were
something that fell out of a tree!" Future Earthmen, humans alive on
Earth in 3978 or later, would be as evolved beyond 20th Century Man
as we are above the monkeys in the trees, Taylor seems to believe.

After he discovers he's been on Earth the whole time... discovers
that Mankind regressed to the state of mute animals, only to be
replaced by Apes who've "aped" all of Man's worst traits... Taylor's
disillusionment is virtually complete. How his estimate of things
progress LATER, when he is abducted by those telepathic, insane bomb-
worshipping Mutants, we can only guess, and I'm guessin' his estimate
of Man's chances are pretty much less than zero. All the time when
Brent is with Nova, on their journey to find Taylor, Taylor has been
sitting in that prison cell. Doing what? Contemplating the
predicament HE is in... and that the WORLD is in. He doesn't know why
he's been taken prisoner... why he is being kept alive, for the
moment. All he has to do is THINK, to ponder the state of the world.

When Nova's life is taken away, he is just about to the point of
letting things go all to hell: "I should let them ALL die! The
gorillas, every damn-- Look what it comes to!"

Brent: "C'mon, Taylor... the Bomb!"

Taylor: "Yeah... why not?"

Why not WHAT, we might ask? Why not dismantle it, so as to prevent it
from ending everything? Or, why not TRIGGER IT, so as to end
everything, the way he had just implied it would happen.

If they (Taylor and Brent) do nothing, then the Bomb will probably be
triggered by one of the Mutants. If the Apes kill all the Mutants,
then one of the Apes might accidentally trigger it, not knowing that
those levers are controls which activate certain functions. Ursus,
remember, ALMOST triggers the Bomb, thinking that he can "find a way"
to stop the Bomb from venting that steam by fiddling around with
those crystal controls. Brent has to divert his attention in order to
keep him from making a monstrous mistake. Notice that Taylor never
bothered to yell out, "DON'T TOUCH THAT! IT'LL BLOW UP THE WORLD!" He
COULD have risked his life, in order to keep Ursus from accidentally
blowing up the world, but he does NOTHING: perhaps he was hoping
Ursus would blow up the world so that he himself wouldn't HAVE to,
and he could die as one of the victims of Earth-ocide rather than the
one to commit that act.

The fact is that Taylor specifically informs Zaius that "... it's
Doomsday... the end of the world..." and he can ONLY know this if he
knows that the Bomb WILL BE DETONATED. He's close enough to the
Bomb's controls to do this himself, so that MUST be what he's
referring to: HE HIMSELF INTENDS TO DETONATE THE BOMB... unless Zaius
can convince him otherwise, by somehow convincing him that people can
change. That Zaius, whose actions betrayed a hatred of the human race
["... the sooner [Man] is exterminated, the better!"], can put aside
that hatred and help an avowed enemy.

In his dying moments, Taylor begs Zaius to help him. How can Zaius
help him??? Can Zaius save Taylor from the effects of those bullets
Ursus fired into him? Absolutely NOT. Taylor KNOWS he's dying, and
that nothing can prevent it: what he wants Zaius to "help" him with
is to change his mind about the prospective future of the Earth, to
convince him NOT to detonate the Bomb. The future of the planet lies
in how Zaius responds to Taylor.

Alas, his response is to shout, "You ask me to help YOU??? Man is
evil, capable of nothing but destruction!"

Having gotten the answer he probably expected to get, though one
which some small part of him hoped he WOULDN'T get, Taylor --
reaching out NOT for Zaius to help him, but for that Doomsday Bomb
trigger, calls Zaius, "You... bloody bastard...!"

If his body had fallen atop that dais of controls, THEN I might buy
into the notion that the Bomb was triggered by accident. But Taylor's
hand is reaching out for that control lever, and this is AFTER he's
gotten his rebuff from Zaius. When he, earlier, had asked Zaius to
help him, he did NOT reach out for that "help"; he reaches out AFTER
being rebuffed, as he calls him a "bloody bastard".

It's the end of the world because Taylor -- even though he was dying
from gunshot wounds -- had it within his power to end the world, all
by the triggering of that one switch. He TELLS Zaius that "it's
Doomsday, the end of the world" -- and it is HE that holds the fate
of the world in his hand. The word "doom" means JUDGMENT, and that
implies a JUDGE -- Taylor alone knew that the "Alpha Omega" bomb was
called "the Doomsday Bomb", meaning that it was intended by its
creators to be detonated as a form of JUDGMENT, not by any God in
heaven, but by a Man. Taylor, when he agreed to be a part of the
interstellar mission, knew that the construction of such a bomb was
in the planning stages: when Brent tells him about the bomb he saw
the Mutants worshipping, with the two Greek letters on one of the
fins, Alpha and--"

"--and Omega." Taylor KNOWS that "they FINALLY built one, with a
cobalt casing" (etc). When he left Earth, he knew such a bomb MIGHT
be constructed. Now he finds out that they DID build one, but never
triggered it.

When he confronts Zaius at the finale, Taylor fully intends to be the
judge on Doomsday. Perhaps he's just going through the motions,
knowing full well that there's really no chance that Zaius is gonna
do a one-eighty and be all nicy-nice to him, to Mankind. He COULD
just put his hand on the trigger, tell Zaius to kiss his ass as he
kisses the whole world goodbye, and then blow up the whole kit and
kaboodle... but he gives the world ONE LAST CHANCE. And it's all up
to Zaius, to how he responds to a plea for help from a human. It
isn't enough to know that some apes are good -- like Zira, Cornelius,
and Lucius -- Taylor must know if it is possible for an ANTAGONIST,
for a human-HATING Ape like Zaius, an ape who has been in a position
of authority and who USED that authority to commit acts against a
hated enemy, to CHANGE. If Zaius can change... then MAYBE there's
hope for the world.

Zaius, who has just seen an Ape Army slaughter unarmed civilians,
must know that the Apes are not the superior species with holier-than-
thou morals setting them above their enemies... but he still can't
cotton to the notion that Man is anything but an evil, destructive
race.

Zaius KNOWS that the Bomb "will kill us all" if it is triggered. He
KNOWS this... and STILL he gives Taylor his rebuff. You would THINK
that Zaius, seeing Taylor so close to the control panel, would do
ANYTHING to placate him, to avert the ending of the world. But Zaius,
alas, is too full of the same "bile" that Zira accuses the gorillas
of having. He is utterly UNWILLING to make peace with Mankind. All
through his secret career as "the Guardian of the Terrible Secret"
[of Man's prehistoric superior civilization] he has done what he has
done -- what his ancestors had done -- in order to "save" the Future
for the Ape youngsters, like Lucius who had asked him about that.

Zaius would "save" the Future by keeping Man subjugated -- preferably
exterminated. That's his "solution" to the problem of Man: a FINAL
SOLUTION. He would rather face the prospect of the whole world coming
down around him than change his mind and opt for a compromise path of
reconciliation with the Enemy. Look at Hitler in his fuhrerbunker,
defiant of the Allies -- his Enemies -- to the last, as Berlin was
reduced to utter ruin, a ruin HE could've prevented by surrendering.
But, no. Zaius, like Hitler, would rather have the world come
crashing down around him than compromise his racist principles.

That is what Taylor saw in his response to a "Help me!" plea. The
Apes are just as rotten as Man ever had been. In Taylor's eyes, there
is now NO HOPE for the world. He's given up hoping for anything
better, from either Man or Ape. What he went seeking in Outer Space
["something better than Man"] wasn't there to be found.

So, he passes judgment on the world. "It's DOOMSDAY..." -- Judgment
Day, with him as the Judge. The end of the world. He KNOWS it, and
Zaius knows it, too. And both of 'em, that individual Ape and that
individual Man, holding the fate of their respective races AND the
whole world in their hands, choose to continue the unending
antagonism between their kinds.

Until Taylor puts an "end" to it.

To reduce Taylor's final act to an unintentional mistake is to rob it
of its greatest significance. If you compare this movie's END with
its BEGINNING, it's all the more relevant: the film begins with
Cornelius reciting from the Sacred Scrolls --

BEWARE the beast Man, for he is the Devil's pawn.
Alone among God's primates, he kills for Sport, or Lust, or Greed.
Yea, he will MURDER HIS BROTHER to possess his brother's land.
Let him not breed in great numbers, for HE WILL MAKE A DESERT OF HIS
HOME AND YOURS.
Shun him!
[Drive him back into his jungle lair -- Note: this line is edited
from "BENEATH" even though it's part of this passage in "PLANET"]
... for he is THE HARBINGER OF DEATH.

The word "harbinger" means "person or thing that announces or signals
the approach of another" and that is EXACTLY what Taylor did when he
told Zaius that "It's DOOMSDAY, THE END OF THE WORLD..." He was the
harbinger of the End of the World, the "death" of everything on
Earth. Triggering that bomb, he knew, would "burn the whole planet to
a cinder... how's THAT for your ultimate weapon?"

There's a reason "BENEATH" began with that quote from the simian
scriptures. It ties in with how the film ENDS. And it tells us
everything we need to know about the significance of Taylor's last
act.

Accident? Hardly! It was INTENTIONAL. Remember how Taylor tells Zaius
that there were no weapons found in Cornelius' cave, which he thinks
makes the simian hatred of Man unwarranted, all that talk about
Man "giving battle to everything around him, even himself!"

"The Forbidden Zone was once a Paradise. YOUR breed made a DESERT of
it, ages ago!"

What kind of "weapon" is capable of doing THAT??? Only a nuke, which
is why Taylor, seeing the Statue of Liberty, knows that Man destroyed
his own civilization with nukes: "You maniacs! You BLEW IT UP!"

When he shouts "Damn you! God damn you all to hell!" he is literally
calling upon God to render a JUDGMENT. A "doom".

Then, at the end of "BENEATH" he finds himself within triggering
distance of a "doomsday bomb"... and he tells Zaius that it IS
doomsday, the end of the world.

Then, a moment later, he reaches out for that trigger and pulls it
down. Taylor becomes Judge, Jury, and Executioner. Of the world.

It's no wonder that Zaius -- who had awaited Taylor's coming for all
his life -- DREADED it, like DEATH ITSELF. None of the mute,
unintelligent savage humans had the ability to do what Taylor alone
(of Men) could do. Taylor KNEW the destructive potential of that
Bomb, and he triggered it. Taylor, a Man with all the destructive
potential of his race, was something to be feared. Zaius does what he
does "out of FEAR" -- "What are you afraid of, Doctor?!!!"

At the end of "BENEATH" we find out.

Patrick






Messages in this topic (25)

.html

 

You're a sick little monkey

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/22/2006 12:53:04 P.M. Central Daylight Time, handleyr@... writes:

Well said, Patrick

 

You actually read all that?!

Maybe I'll print it out and take

it to the restroom along with

my dog-eared copy of War & Peace.

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Patrick Tilton
Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 10:47 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] A Name by any other Name.....

I almost hate to mention it, but in the horrid HORRID
movie version of "THE AVENGERS" starring Ralph Fiennes
and Uma Thurman, the villain played by Sean Connery --
who could control the weather -- was named "August de
Winter"... August-to-Winter, get it? He could change a
summer weather into wintry weather.

Ye gods, but that movie sucked!

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 11:31 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Taylor & Zaius and the End of the World

. He
WANTS to end the world -- he so much as said so, when he blurted
out: "Zaius... it's the end of the world... help me!"

How does Taylor KNOW it's the end of the world??? Ursus had been
about to press the trigger, when Brent diverted his attention by
banging the rifle butt on the keyboard of the organ. Zaius knows that
those controls do things to this device which he knows is a "weapon
built by Man" which will kill them all if detonated -- one of the
crystals, when depressed, caused the missile to arise from
its "silo", he could see.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Haristas@...
Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 1:13 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: An Ape By Any Other Name

I don't know... that PLANET OF THE MEN script is bloody awful.  Seemed like a cynical effort on his part, to me.  Like he did it for the money or something.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 2:46 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] A Name by any other Name.....

In a message dated 8/20/2006 4:40:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@bigpond. com writes:

No one said she was stupid either.

 

I think I did once.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 2:52 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: A Name by any other Name.....

Oh yeah, the guru...

That's why I called her stupid.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendy Kostora
Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 1:39 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] A Name by any other Name.....

 Just because she does these off the planet  things doesn't make her idiot. Just a little crazy is all.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendy Kostora
Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 1:49 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: A Name by any other Name.....

 Perhaps whatever falls out the tree  will find a mummyfied body clutching  POTA collectables and a Nova doll that talks, saying "Momma" or better yet, "Taylor".

.

<.html

.html

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of atragon1@...
Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 6:37 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Taylor & Zaius and the End of the World

No, Taylor does not intentionally destroy the world. He knows the world may end if the right action is not taken. His triggering of the bomb is purely unintentional. He is clearly mortally wounded and is reaching out to Zaius for help. Why would Taylor say "help me" if he wanted the world to end?

 

If one is wounded with a gunshot to the chest, I don't think they would be thinking: "OK... I will decide right now if the world will end or not ... and the pivotal decision will rest on the sympathy of this creature before me who tortured me, tried to spade me, and stuffed/lobtomized my companions.. if he shows mercy, then I will spare the earth.."

 

Taylor expresses no love for the world in the first film, but he knows that there are beings like Cornelius and Zira out there who are sympathetic to humans. He would not be so "heavy-handed" (so to speak) as to willingly destroy the world.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 8:06 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Taylor & Zaius and the End of the World

 

Also when Brent is trying to engage his

enthusiasm about disarming the bomb

his concern seems half-hearted at best.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 12:00 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: An Ape By Any Other Name

I would like to see a faithful adaptation of Boulle's novel,
preferably done by a French director, with dialogue in French (etc).
The source is a foreign novel, so why not have the movie be a foreign
film, subtitled in English?

.

<.html

.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Monday, 21 August 2006 3:09 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: A Name by any other Name.....

In a message dated 8/21/2006 12:05:45 A.M. Central Daylight Time, TZer0@... writes:

That's why I called her stupid.

On the other hand she did use what she

to the fullest, and that certainly was smart.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gp3085
Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 7:18 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Hey Ty!

Issue 6 of Revolution didn't make the Diamond Comics ship list for
this week
(http://www.diamondc omics.com/ shipping/ shipping_ 082306.txt) so it
won't be in shops this week.

It's also not on next week's list, but that could change by the time
the final list for next week gets posted.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Wednesday, 23 August 2006 4:39 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Digest Number 2286

In a message dated 8/22/2006 12:53:04 P.M. Central Daylight Time, handleyr@optonline. net writes:

Well said, Patrick

 

You actually read all that?!

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of handleyr@...
Sent: Wednesday, 23 August 2006 3:46 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Digest Number 2286

Well said, Patrick -- I agree 100%. He reaches out to Zaius to help him
stop the destruction, but even then all Zaius
can do is scorn him for being human. At that point, having lost Nova,
having lost his fellow astronauts, having seen
that the world has not gotten better, he decides to end it all.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 5:26 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] A Name by any other Name.....

Here are some very hot pics of the beautiful, smart
and talented Linda Harrison!

.

<.html

.html <.html

.html
-- <.html

.html

In a message dated 8/23/2006 6:13:25 A.M. Central Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

I know it's not ALL about me, but man I would be grateful!!!!  J

Michael

 

I say he sells the book and has done with it!

 

<.html

.html
-- <.html

.html

In a message dated 8/22/2006 3:53:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- Fair enough then. Even the Beatles were stupid when they were following that Indian guru bloke.

 

More like loaded...but then that can make you do stupid things too.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/23/2006 8:03:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Why would Taylor say "help me" if he wanted the world to end?

 

I think it was an Or Else.

If it had been Samuel L. Jackson, he'd have said,

"Zaius, help me of I'll blow up the M*ther F*ckin' World."

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/23/2006 7:13:20 A.M. Central Daylight Time, TZer0@... writes:

I say he sells the book and has done with it!

 

He doesn't even have to publish it.

Just print out his posts.  That's a book right there!

 

<.html

.html

 

The "Other" Group if letting some Furry organize a POTA convention.

WTF?

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/22/2006 3:54:59 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@... writes:

When Brent is telling him about the bomb and he realises that it is the A&O bomb he seems to know just what it is capable of doing

 

I would think so since it's a Doomsday Bomb

<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Wednesday, 23 August 2006 4:08 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: A Name by any other Name.....

More like loaded...but then that can make you do stupid things too.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 23 August 2006 8:57 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] A Name by any other Name.....

My eyes are BURNING!!!!! ! 

 

.

<.html

you're welcome Neil...

Oh and...I tried to load some foreign poster pics in
the Photos section the other day and "it" said I
didn't have the authority to do that.....even tho I
created the folders! Do you have to let me in? or I
could send the pics to you....either way is cool....

Tim

--- Neil T Foster <ntfoster@...> wrote:

> -- Thanks Tim. Some wonderful fashion statements
> there! ;-)
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 5:26 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] A Name by any other Name.....
>
>
>
>
>
> Here are some very hot pics of the beautiful, smart
> and talented Linda Harrison!
>
>
> .
>
>

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714&grpId=8605785&grpspId=1600021437&m

>

sgId=40772&stime=1156188785&nc1=3848506&nc2=3848618&nc3=3911045>

>
>
>
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 23 August 2006 8:58 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: {Disarmed} Re: [PotaDG] Taylor & Zaius and the End of the World

Can’t agree but thanks for expressing your opinion Bill!

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, 24 August 2006 2:40 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] SPAMK Monkey Planet You Sick Little Monkey

The "Other" Group if letting some Furry organize a POTA convention.

WTF?

.

<.html

-- Not sure what is going on there Tim. No settings have been changed
recently so I can see no reason why it wouldn't let you. Must be good
old Yahoo again! Have another try and if you don't have any luck just
send them to me and I'll give it a go.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
> Oh and...I tried to load some foreign poster pics in
> the Photos section the other day and "it" said I
> didn't have the authority to do that.....even tho I
> created the folders! Do you have to let me in? or I
> could send the pics to you....either way is cool....

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 23 August 2006 8:50 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Taylor & Zaius and the End of the World

I agree – Taylor seems to be saying “Show me you can set it all aside and then I’ll believe it is worth allowing the Earth to survive”.

.

<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html.html

He doesn't
ACCIDENTALLY fall on it, the way Michael Avallone's error-filled
novelization has it.

The late Michael Avallone's "error-filled" novelization was based on the first draft screenplay, not the final edited film.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html

No, Taylor does not intentionally destroy the world. He knows the world may end if the right action is not taken. His triggering of the bomb is purely unintentional. He is clearly mortally wounded and is reaching out to Zaius for help. Why would Taylor say "help me" if he wanted the world to end?

This is crazy talk!

I hate the ending of BENEATH, but I've never thought it was an accident.  Both Heston and Zanuck were out to kill the thing.  I'd like to know what Arthur Jacobs was doing?  Was he asleep, or too busy with GOODBYE MR. CHIPS?

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 8/23/06 7:13:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

I will beg one last time though – Patrick, could you PLEASE post one email per paragraph?

I quickly skim Patrick's posts, then just as quickly hit the delete button!

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html

In a message dated 8/22/2006 3:52:45 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- Okay then, at least one person called her stupid.

 

Not clinically or anything.

Just the usual dumb babe moves.

Most of the people who get by on their looks are guilty of that.

Except of course for Hedy Lamarr, who invented Radar with a piano.

 

<.html

-- Doesn't he describe the Statue of Liberty as being made of copper?

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
> The late Michael Avallone's "error-filled" novelization was based on
the first draft screenplay, not the final edited film.

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Wendy Kostora
Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 12:53 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] A Name by any other Name.....

Who didn't back in those days. In fact who doesn't these days.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Plonowski
Sent: Thursday, 24 August 2006 11:38 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com; potadg@yahoogroups.com; friends & fugitives
Subject: [PotaDG] Marvel UK 97

Sorry for the delay in getting this week's issue posted. Hunter uploaded them to his site earlier today right on schedule, but when I looked the files over before announcing the issue I realized there was a page missing from one of the PDFs and a duplicate page in the other. Corrected files are now available on Hunter's site. If you downloaded the files earlier today during the brief time they were available you'll want to download the corrected versions.

 

This week's issue continues the Terror storyline and has another chapter in the re-presentation of the Planet adaptation. The more-for-you- money era seems to be over, as there is no article or letters page this issue.

.

<.html

.html <.html

.html

 

Kim on American Masters about Kazan on PBS tonight.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Plonowski
Sent: Thursday, 24 August 2006 11:38 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com; potadg@yahoogroups.com; friends & fugitives
Subject: [PotaDG] Marvel UK 97

This week's issue continues the Terror storyline and has another chapter in the re-presentation of the Planet adaptation. The more-for-you- money era seems to be over, as there is no article or letters page this issue.

.

<.html

will do!

oh and I believe the dodge stewart landon discussion
on the other group happened before this one.

--- Neil <ntfoster@...> wrote:

> -- Not sure what is going on there Tim. No settings
> have been changed
> recently so I can see no reason why it wouldn't let
> you. Must be good
> old Yahoo again! Have another try and if you don't
> have any luck just
> send them to me and I'll give it a go.
>
> Neil
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\""
> <apefan23@...> wrote:
> > Oh and...I tried to load some foreign poster pics
> in
> > the Photos section the other day and "it" said I
> > didn't have the authority to do that.....even tho
> I
> > created the folders! Do you have to let me in? or
> I
> > could send the pics to you....either way is
> cool....
>
>
>
>
>

I REBEL against authority! Power to the people!!

;)

--- Michael Whitty <whitty@...> wrote:

> Ha! You have no authority! :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Thursday, 24 August 2006 7:31 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: {Disarmed} RE: [PotaDG] A Name by any other
> Name.....
>
> you're welcome Neil...
>
> Oh and...I tried to load some foreign poster pics in
> the Photos section the other day and "it" said I
> didn't have the authority to do that.....even tho I
> created the folders! Do you have to let me in? or I
> could send the pics to you....either way is cool....
>
> Tim
>
> --- Neil T Foster <ntfoster@bigpond.
> <mailto:ntfoster%40bigpond.com>
> com> wrote:
>
> > -- Thanks Tim. Some wonderful fashion statements
> > there! ;-)
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.
> <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com
> > [PotaDG@yahoogroups.
> <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com] On
> Behalf
> > Of Tim "apefan"
> > Sent: Tuesday, 22 August 2006 5:26 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.
> <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com
> > Subject: RE: [PotaDG] A Name by any other
> Name.....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Here are some very hot pics of the beautiful,
> smart
> > and talented Linda Harrison!
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> <http://geo.yahoo.
>

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714&grpId=8605785&grpspId=1600021437&m

> >
>

com/serv?s=97359714&grpId=8605785&grpspId=1600021437&m

> >
>

sgId=40772&stime=1156188785&nc1=3848506&nc2=3848618&nc3=3911045>

> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> >

-- I thought we were talking about these people a couple of weeks ago
after Rory mentioned Robert Gunner being in Our Man Flint and I then
asked what other stuff he and the others had done apart from POTA?

Maybe they were discussing the same thing weeks ago I don't know
because I only occasionally glance at the messages (but if they did
start this topic weeks ago it seems a bit silly to try and start it up
yet again yesterday)

My apologies in advance if I am wrong about this

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
> oh and I believe the dodge stewart landon discussion
> on the other group happened before this one.

There were 123 issues of the PotA mag, plus 16 issues of Mighty
World of Marvel that contained Apes stories after the PotA book was
canceled, so that's 139 total issues. so we've got 42 left.

Greg

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil T Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- Sorry for asking an old question Greg but could you remind me
> (again!) how many issues are left to go now? Thanks.
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Greg Plonowski
> Sent: Thursday, 24 August 2006 11:38 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com; potadg@yahoogroups.com; friends &
fugitives
> Subject: [PotaDG] Marvel UK 97
>
>
>
>
>
> This week's issue continues the Terror storyline and has another
chapter
> in the re-presentation of the Planet adaptation. The more-for-you-
money
> era seems to be over, as there is no article or letters page this
issue.
> .
>
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?
s=97359714&grpId=8605785&grpspId=1600021437&m
>
sgId=40828&stime=1156383642&nc1=3848589&nc2=3848550&nc3=3858794&nc1=3
848
> 640&nc2=3858789&nc3=3848693>
>

.html

 

Just in case anyone thought I was kidding . . .

 

Spread spectrum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/23/2006 7:21:12 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Haristas@... writes:

I quickly skim Patrick's posts, then just as quickly hit the delete button!

-- Rory

 

Yeah, but I always feel like there's an underlying point I'm missing.

Then I go back and reread them -- and then I realize, I'm wrong...there isn't.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/23/2006 7:52:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- Doesn't he describe the Statue of Liberty as being made of copper?

 

It is.

 

<.html

.html
-- <.html

.html

In a message dated 8/24/2006 3:57:35 A.M. Central Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

You big shit stirrer T!  ;)

Patrick's posts are always fascinating.

 

Oh I won't say there's NO point to them.

Let just say I'm glad I'm not his professor.

The real point seems to be to fill the page.

Maybe that's how he got through college.

But whatever point he's making is hidden

in any number of examples, cited and

catalogued.  It's like someone turned

POTA into a textbook designed to

turn something of interest into a

total yawnfest.  It's personal taste.

 

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, 24 August 2006 6:10 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Taylor & Zaius and the End of the World

In a message dated 8/23/2006 7:52:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@bigpond. com writes:

-- Doesn't he describe the Statue of Liberty as being made of copper?

 

It is.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Thursday, 24 August 2006 6:10 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Taylor & Zaius and the End of the World

In a message dated 8/23/2006 7:52:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@bigpond. com writes:

-- Doesn't he describe the Statue of Liberty as being made of copper?

 

It is.

.

<.html

.html <.html

.html

 

You're a sick little monkey

.

<.html

He describes it thus:

*** Taylor doesn't seem to even register the fact that Brent gets
slaughtered by those gorillas -- he's too busy dragging his bullet-
riddled body up and over to the Bomb's control-panel "dais" and having
his one-on-one chat with Zaius. The camera cuts to shots of Brent
sniping gorillas one by one, the gun jamming, a cluster of machinegun-
wielding gorillas plastering him to the wall... but Taylor's attention
is always on Zaius -- and the Bomb. He never calls out "Brent!" or even
so much as looks in his direction.

I think that Brent, definitely, intended to disarm the Bomb or at least
prevent it from being triggered. But Taylor? When he says, "Yeah... why
not?" it seems to me that this line of dialogue is MEANT to be
ambiguous, as if it COULD mean, "Yeah, why NOT save the world and
disarm the damned thing" OR it could mean, "Yeah... why NOT let 'em all
die... why not MAKE IT HAPPEN, by triggering it myself? Why NOT finish
it?"

Maybe even HE doesn't know, as yet, what he really wants to do. He's
just lost Nova, and he's just voiced the opinion that HE should let
them all die -- and notice he doesn't say "WE should..." he said "I
should let them ALL die, the GORILLAS, every damn--Look what it comes
to! It's time it was finished! FINISHED!" He's definitely focusing on
his own state-of-mind and intentions, here.

After saying "It's time it was finished" his next line of dialogue
is "Why not?" Why not FINISH it? Or why not prevent Doomsday?

I think he's in a very very dark place emotionally, and most probably
has the darker thought foremost in his mind.

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil T Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- So I wonder what he would have done if Brent hadn't been killed.
He was obviously thinking about letting the world get blown up when
Nova was shot but he and Brent still went in with the intention of
trying to disarm the bomb didn't they?
>
> Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Neil T Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:

>
> -- That's how I see it as well.
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf

> Of Michael Whitty
> Sent: Wednesday, 23 August 2006 8:50 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Taylor & Zaius and the End of the World
>
> I agree - Taylor seems to be saying "Show me you can set it all

aside

> and then I'll believe it is worth allowing the Earth to survive".
>
> .
>

Yeah that's how I've always seen it as well. I always thought of
that last scene as being almost an allegory of the Cuban missile
crisis. In the real world Kennedy and Khrushchev were both able to
set aside their animosity just in time and pull back from the brink
of destruction, where as Taylor and zaius just can't get off the
path they've found themselves on. Taylor knows zaius can't help
because their positions are so entrenched. Ofcourse the Cuban
missile crisis would have only have been a few years in the past at
the time of the filming,fresh in the mind.
Best Graham.

.html

In a message dated 8/24/2006 6:48:30 A.M. Central Daylight Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- I thought it was bronze.

 

Nope, 31 tons of copper sheeting over a steel frame.

But the only reason I knew it was copper is the

American Chopper guys got to build a bike out

of some of the old copper that was replaces.

 

<.html

Oh, brother!

First, T, you said THIS:

"Yeah, but I always feel like there's an underlying point I'm missing.
Then I go back and reread them -- and then I realize, I'm wrong...
there isn't."

And then you said THIS:

"Oh I won't say there's NO point to them. Let just say I'm glad I'm
not his professor. The real point seems to be to fill the page. Maybe
that's how he got through college. But whatever point he's making is
hidden in any number of examples, cited and catalogued. It's like
someone turned POTA into a textbook designed to turn something of
interest into a total yawnfest. It's personal taste."

If we were to tally up all the ASCII characters you've ever typed
pissing-&-moaning about the length of my messages, and compare that
number with what I've typed in the same period of time, we'd probably
have similar numbers. But YOURS will have been an incessant string of
short-&-sweet complaints rather than any substantive discussion of
POTA.

T, the ONLY posts of yours I ever feel grateful to read are ones
where you actually have something to say (especially that nobody else
has ever said) that is ABOUT POTA -- like your recent postings
regarding the upkeep of Guns by Mandemus -- and THOSE messages force
you to type more words than you ordinarily do, so that you can speak
intelligently about the subject by going into detail. The kinds of
details that show us that your information is valid and that you DO
know what you're talking about.

Believe it or not, T, those particular posts (about Mandemus and the
Guns) are very VERY helpful to me in regards to my POTA project,
since now -- making use of information you had that I didn't have
beforehand -- I will be able to write about Mandemus' work more
realistically. I'll have had an advantage that David Gerrold did NOT
have -- YOUR well-informed opinion. Believe it or not, T, I value
that immensely. I wish more -- I wish ALL -- of your posts were of
that sort!

I sigh with regret that some of the people here seem to have
attention spans of the sort that MTV's hyperquick edit-style caters
to. Any Kubrickian establishing shot that lasts longer than a fucking
nanosecond makes Generation Z-types yawn, it seems. I know some guys
in their mid-20's who think the original "STAR WARS" is too slow and
boring, almost as if it's like the original version of "SOLARIS", and
I shudder to think about the fast-cut editing styles we'll be forced
to endure 20 years from now.

Complain all you want, T, about how rough it is for you to take
anything longer than 10 damn seconds to read my posts if you must,
but you'd be doing yourself a favor by just IGNORING them and
pretending I'm not a member here and responding only to those posts
that you can bear to take the time to read.

But when you go outta your way to say that I either have NO point to
make when I post a message or that my "real point seems to be to fill
the page" -- Jeezus H. Christ, does THAT piss me off! Most of the
time you state that you DON'T EVEN BOTHER READING my longer posts,
which proves that ANY opinion you might have about those posts is an
UNINFORMED one. Any idiot can state that "WAR AND PEACE" is a thick
book, but that doesn't tell anybody ANYthing regarding what it's
ABOUT.

If you don't want to read my longer posts and remained uninformed
about my views on whatever subject, that's fine and dandy. I don't
give a rat's ass one way or the other. But if you're not going to
even bother actually READING 'em, then SHUT THE FUCK UP about 'em and
don't pretend you know whatever point I had to make when I wrote 'em.

If I sound a tad pissed off, well, I am. So BITE ME!

Patrick

Am I the only one who watched the news when President
Reagan had the Statue refurbished? Remember all that
scaffolding?

Remember "REMO WILLIAMS" with Fred Ward? They made a
TV show adaptation with Roddy McDowall playing the
oriental guru character. In the movie version, there's
a big fight scene on that scaffolding around the
Statue, which dates the movie to the mid-1980s.

Remember the first "X-MEN" movie? The good guys are
imprisoned inside the Statue's hollow head, and
Cyclops (I think it was) tells Storm to zap Magneto
with a thunderbolt, and he has to remind them that
they're inside a copper conductor: "I thought you
lived in a school!" he says, which should've made 'em
feel rather humiliated, to say the least...

Patrick


--- TZer0@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 8/24/2006 6:48:30 A.M. Central
> Daylight Time,
> ntfoster@... writes:
>
> -- I thought it was bronze.
>
>
>
> Nope, 31 tons of copper sheeting over a steel frame.
> But the only reason I knew it was copper is the
> American Chopper guys got to build a bike out
> of some of the old copper that was replaces.
>
>

I can testify she is hollow as I have been inside of
her....ahem.....

It is wierd though.....seeing the reverse side of an
iconic image...

Tim


--- Patrick Tilton <patrickmichaeltilton@...>
wrote:

> Am I the only one who watched the news when
> President
> Reagan had the Statue refurbished? Remember all that
> scaffolding?
>
> Remember "REMO WILLIAMS" with Fred Ward? They made a
> TV show adaptation with Roddy McDowall playing the
> oriental guru character. In the movie version,
> there's
> a big fight scene on that scaffolding around the
> Statue, which dates the movie to the mid-1980s.
>
> Remember the first "X-MEN" movie? The good guys are
> imprisoned inside the Statue's hollow head, and
> Cyclops (I think it was) tells Storm to zap Magneto
> with a thunderbolt, and he has to remind them that
> they're inside a copper conductor: "I thought you
> lived in a school!" he says, which should've made
> 'em
> feel rather humiliated, to say the least...
>
> Patrick
>
>
> --- TZer0@... wrote:
>
> >
> > In a message dated 8/24/2006 6:48:30 A.M. Central
> > Daylight Time,
> > ntfoster@... writes:
> >
> > -- I thought it was bronze.
> >
> >
> >
> > Nope, 31 tons of copper sheeting over a steel
> frame.
> > But the only reason I knew it was copper is the
> > American Chopper guys got to build a bike out
> > of some of the old copper that was replaces.
> >
> >
>
>
>

.html <.html

.html

Reminder from:		PotaDG's Calendar
Title:		Tim Burton's Birthday
Date:		Friday August 25, 2006
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Description:		Happy birthday Mr. Burton!

Copyright © 2006  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | <.html

.html

Reminder from:		PotaDG's Calendar
Title:		Tim Burton's Birthday
Date:		Friday August 25, 2006
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Next reminder:		The next reminder for this event will be sent in 6 minutes.
Description:		Happy birthday Mr. Burton!

Copyright © 2006  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | <.html

.html

Reminder from:		PotaDG's Calendar
Title:		Michael Whitty's Birthday!
Date:		Friday August 25, 2006
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.

Copyright © 2006  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | <.html

.html

 

Did you have something to say there?

I got bored after the first paragraph or so

and quit read.  But seriously, I'll probably

read it later.  You bitching about my

bitching is one of your more interesting

posts.  Glad I got a rise out of you.

 

<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com wrote:

>
>
> Reminder from the Calendar of PotaDG
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/cal
>
> Michael Whitty's Birthday!
> Friday August 25, 2006
> All Day
> (This event repeats every year.)
>

>

It's your birthday already Michael !! ? You see time does speed up
as you get older :) Have a good one.
Best wishes Graham.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY MICHAEL!!!!!! get any apes ???

Tim

--- Graham Hill <shop@...> wrote:

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com,
> PotaDG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Reminder from the Calendar of PotaDG
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/cal
> >
> > Michael Whitty's Birthday!
> > Friday August 25, 2006
> > All Day
> > (This event repeats every year.)
> >
>
> >
> It's your birthday already Michael !! ? You see
> time does speed up
> as you get older :) Have a good one.
> Best wishes Graham.
>
>
>
>
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gp3085
Sent: Thursday, 24 August 2006 12:43 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Marvel UK 97

There were 123 issues of the PotA mag, plus 16 issues of Mighty
World of Marvel that contained Apes stories after the PotA book was
canceled, so that's 139 total issues. so we've got 42 left.

.

<.html

.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Friday, 25 August 2006 4:11 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The stone lady...

Mr. Avallone was evidently of the opinion that the Statue of Liberty
was SCULPTED out of stone

.

<.html

Attachments :

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Friday, 25 August 2006 1:53 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Birthday Reminder

Reminder from:		PotaDG's Calendar
Title:		Michael Whitty's Birthday!
Date:		Friday August 25, 2006
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.

Copyright © 2006  Yahoo! Inc.  All Rights Reserved | | Privacy Policy

<.html

Attachments :

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hill
Sent: Saturday, 26 August 2006 4:25 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Birthday Reminder

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com, PotaDG@yahoogroups. com wrote:
>
>
> Reminder from the Calendar of PotaDG
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/PotaDG/ cal
>
> Michael Whitty's Birthday!
> Friday August 25, 2006
> All Day
> (This event repeats every year.)
>

>
It's your birthday already Michael !! ? You see time does speed up
as you get older :) Have a good one.
Best wishes Graham.

<.html

.html <.html

Attachments :

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html.html veetus@... writes:

Do these studios think they're oil companies or something? Enough with slapping loyal fans in the face. I've written tvshowsondvd.com and asked them to do a commentary on this.

  Maybe I'm wrong.


I think you're WRONG.....

Wrong not to look at it from the Home Video companies' perspective.  They are part of corporations, companies that are in business , that employ people and provide livings for those people. In short, they exist to make money.  In order to make that money they have to sell their product to consumers.  What is their product?  Their library of films.  Is that commodity unlimited?  NO!  It's finite.  They only have so many movies.  So, how do they keep making money off that finite resource?  By figuring out new ways to keep selling the same thing.  (Has that ever NOT been the case scine the days of the nickelodeons?)  What would you have them do instead?  Sell the ultimate DVD edition of every movie they have, that no buyer will ever need to replace with an improved transfer or further desire anything more on, then just hang it up?  Dude, we live in a capitalist society, one that demands continuing profits.  No more profits -- no more company!  Like it or not, that's the reality -- AND YOU BETTER GET HOLD OF THAT AND HANG ON TO IT, OR YOU MIGHT AS WELL BE DEAD!  Besides, I think the purchasing of DVDs falls under the category of a "nonessential purchase," you know, like a luxury item or something.  They aren't food or toilet paper -- you don't HAVE to have them.  No one is holding a gun to your head making you buy them!  So, butch up and stop complaining!

-- Rory <.html<.html

.html

 

Is it me, or does the kid on the right look like Caesar's illegitimate Love Child?

Maybe that was Zelda in the Breeding Annex! --and not Lisa!?!

 

<.html

.html

 

Caesar's bastard brother usurps the throne while he's away fighting the mutants in the Forbidden Zone.  Now THERE"S a comic!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

<.html

Two things to think about.

1) In "PLANET" when Taylor, on-the-run, hides in the Ape "church"
during a funeral service for a recently deceased gorilla, the
Minister refers to that gorilla as a "hunter... warrior... Defender
of the Faith..." etc.

Warrior?

Did this get mentioned during the discussion, several months back,
regarding whether or not the Apes in "PLANET" even had an Army?

I seem to remember Rory (for one) arguing that the Apes did NOT have
an Army during "PLANET" and that the gorillas only served as a sort
of police force, and that "BENEATH" changed this, supposedly
introducing the Army -- one of the many supposed "changes" that Rory
doesn't like about "BENEATH".

But, then, what kind of "warrior" could this dead Gorilla have once
been? If there are only Apes living around that area (in a "PLANET"-
only scenario) and if they as yet didn't know about any Unknowns
living in the Forbidden Zone, and didn't make war against other apes,
how can there even BE a "warrior" in the Ape City population?

I would argue that -- using only info from "PLANET" -- the suggestion
is that Apes DID wage wars, but not against Mutants or against the
Human beasts (they HUNTED those poor slobs, and the Minister covered
this when he called the gorilla a "hunter")... no, they waged war
against groups of APOSTATE APES, at least in the Past. Perhaps the
not-so-distant past, either.

If the gorilla whose funeral is being held died of natural causes, if
he was a really OLD gorilla, then perhaps the war he fought in
occurred around 50 years earlier, when he was in his prime. Maybe
they haven't needed to fight any wars since then, having decisively
defeated those they fought. Neither Cornelius nor Zira would've been
alive during that war, but there would be those who do remember it
and who would honor veterans who had survived, as well as those who
lost ("gave") their lives during the hostilities.

Maybe the Apostates who were defeated were predominantly CHIMPANZEES.
I suggest this as a possibility, given that some sort of
institutionalized discrimination had been in-place in the recent past
and subsequently abolished: the "Quota System". Was that Quota System
part of a post-war subjugation of heretical, upstart chimpanzee
apostates? Given that chimps seem to have been the ones who had been
subjected to that Quota System, this seems like a possibility, anyway.

The "Ape Shall Never Kill Ape" line wasn't introduced until "BENEATH"
and Man is accused of "killing for Sport, Lust, [and] Greed" -- but
killing for the sake of stamping out Apostacy is NOT expressly
condemned. In fact, it is implied as a GOOD thing, when Zaius tells
Cornelius that "only an APOSTATE would flee to the Forbidden Zone".
Flee from what? From the threat of being put to death for an
ecclesiastical crime? From being killed in a "justified" war, perhaps
as a fulfillment of the command of the Lawgiver?

----------------------------

2) Slavery and/or Serfdom.

The funeral-gorilla is also described as a "generous master". What is
meant by the word "master"? The word could mean a number of things,
but what I think it SEEMS to mean, given the context, is "slave-
holder". Unlike other slave-holders, this "font of simian kindness"
was GENEROUS to his slaves.

What other kind of "master" can plausibly be described as "generous"
as opposed to its antithesis? If Serling & Wilson were denoting Mr.
Gorilla as an accomplished professional -- such as a "master"
Architect or Composer or Technician or Historian, a master-of-his-
craft -- then how does Generosity come into the picture?

Perhaps by "master" they mean that he was a Feudal Aristocrat of
sorts, somebody who owned a sizable estate on which lived other apes,
perhaps quite poor ones, who worked the land as a form of Rent. A
wealthy landowning Ape might squeeze the poor serfs working his lands
and be deemed "stingy", whereas a "generous" one would perhaps have a
more equitable relationship with his serfs.

Is there all that much difference between a Serf and a Slave? Well,
there IS, but it's really only one of degree. I think we tend to
assume that the Ape society in "PLANET" is closer to the one we know
than something from a bygone age. The Feudal System met its end (at
least in the Western World, for the most part) when the Renaissance
and the Age of Exploration opened up more of the world for
Colonialism. When downtrodden folks in the U.K. could opt to travel
to a "New World" and start a new life as part of a wave of colonial
migration (in competition with Spain, France, Portugal, etc), then
the landed aristocracy could no longer maintain their hold over those
poorer beholden serfs. Competition for Empire amongst the monarchs of
the world -- while leading to the subjugation of "native" populations
in newly-discovered lands -- also served to free up the peoples who
had hitherto lived with less options available to them.

I could easily imagine the Ape society in "PLANET" being composed of
a rigid hierarchy of castes, where the Wealthy -- perhaps
predominantly Orangutans and some Gorillas and FEW Chimpanzees -- get
to own most or all of the land, and the poorer classes (comprised of
a fair percentage of Gorillas, like Julius, and most of the
Chimpanzees) cannot own land and must forever be paying Rent of some
kind to their landlord.

All that from two words in the Minister's eulogy: "warrior"
and "master"! The implications are obvious, and worth speculating
about. I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts on these matters.

Patrick

.html.html In a message dated 8/27/06 12:10:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

All that from two words in the Minister's eulogy: "warrior"
and "master"! The implications are obvious, and worth speculating
about. I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts on these matters.

Patrick

Good lord, talk about getting all "serious" and postulating on any word or phrase in a film.  I doubt even the screenwriters themselves would have had anything to say about this -- EXCEPT, that all this was to be "suggested" but not clearly delineated.  Somewhat ambiguous, open for you to fill in the gaps yourself, and you certainly enjoy doing that, Patrick.  I prefer to simply think about it a little, but to not get too carried away.  The concept of the PLANET OF THE APES is absurd, when you try and explain it all it can't help but veer into the silly.

-- Rory<.html <.html

.html.html I wasn't aware of it until this morning but TV LAND has been running a "DANIEL BOONE" marathon all weekend.  You'll remember this was a Fox TV series.

Sorry for the late heads up, but Maurice Evans will be on an episode at 7 PM eastern.  Entitled "Beaumarchais" I see from IMDB.com that it first aired on October 12, 1967, which means this episode was filmed either while Evans was playing Dr. Zaius in PLANET or just after he finished.  Anyway, I can't wait to check it out.

I just got through watching an episode that had Victor Buono in it, and had a scene shot at the Malibu Creek rock pool.  They even had the waterfall turned on!

All the exteriors for BOONE were done out at the Fox ranch, you know.  I also saw the "meadow," but with no cornfield planted.

So for any of you that have TV LAND, check it out quick!

-- Rory<.html<.html

.html

In a message dated 8/27/2006 2:01:52 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Haristas@... writes:

I prefer to simply think about it a little, but to not get too carried away.  The concept of the PLANET OF THE APES is absurd, when you try and explain it all it can't help but veer into the silly.

-- Rory

 

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Let's not get carried away or we're no better

than the Trekkies.  In Beneath Ape can't kill

Ape, and yet in Planet they'll Hang For High

Treason.  Patrick puts more thought into his

post then the sequel writers ever did their

scripts.  Not that that's a good thing. Pat

is a Master Over Thinking.  Someday he'll

think himself into a logic loop and his head

will explode like so many androids before him.

 

<.html

.html <.html