.html it seems to me that Dario was the one who had all that "logged" as to what magazine had the abridged version of MONKEY PLANET... It seems whatever magazine it was also had drawings to accompany it? Dario?



In a message dated 10/24/2006 9:26:43 AM Central Standard Time, apefan23@... writes:

I used to have the issue number written down but I
can't find it...

<.html

.html In a message dated 10/24/2006 6:34:30 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I'm not going to give away too much, but if anyone here has anything that was not on the first disc, please say something and we'll see if we can get it on the second disc.

*** I second what Whitty just said... If you have ANYTHING not on "volume one" get it to Hunter a.s.a.p.

I just sent him quite a bit of footage, and I certainly would like to see more added to it...

<.html

.html In a message dated 10/24/2006 4:47:05 PM Central Standard Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- But did they take the time and effort to clean it up or did they
just have access to original pristine prints?

i'm only guessing here, but I think they probably had access to decent prints... I mean even that miniscule bit they showed on BEHIND was pretty clean...<.html

Okay, you've whetted our appetites with these first 2 pages...

At first I thought this might be Seattle (that tall building looks a
little bit like the Space Needle), but it's been mentioned here that
this is actually Sydney, Australia. Which is fine, BTW. This IS
supposed to be a "planet" of apes, and the POTA franchise tends to
focus on "NORTH AMERICA" -- specifically the former U.S. of A. So, it's
good to see some other part of the planet than we're used to.

When does this story take place? Soon after the Nuke War? It's
called "PLANET OF THE APES BEGINS" after all... But are these ruins of
Sydney from a Nuke attack? After all, you've got a lizard smack dab in
the foreground, and you'd think that all critters within a couple miles
of an airbursted nuke would've been vaporized... but here we see a
living creature. Was Sydney ravaged by a non-nuclear event? Say, from
quakes generated by the nuking of other neighboring cities?

I'm sure some of these questions will have obvious answers when page 3
and 4 and 5 (etc) show up...

Patrick

Yeah not good timing...whitty, smolen, sausville and
the farrell guy all selling at once! sheesh!

Tim

--- Neil T Foster <ntfoster@...> wrote:

> -- There is some nice stuff there. I wonder why
> there seems to be a few
> of the big collectors selling up lately?
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Michael Whitty
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2006 9:15 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] POTA Collectors
>
>
>
>
>
>
> There's a collector selling up on eBay and he's
> begun with a lot of what
> I consider to be a basic "starter" collector's set.
>
>
>
> Have a look here:
>
>
>
> http://search.
>

<http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZ66-82gibsonflyingvQQhtZ-1>

> ebay.com/_W0QQsassZ66-82gibsonflyingvQQhtZ-1
>
>
>
> The Jigsaw Puzzles are as good as you get - all
> sealed.
>
>
>
> Some great, cheap stuff here.
>
> .
>
>

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=8605785/grpspId=1705021437/m

>

sgId=41666/stime=1161689222/nc1=3858790/nc2=3848608/nc3=3848446>

>
>
>
>

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 6:11 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] POTA Collectors

Look on the bright side – good time to BUY!  J

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 6:14 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] POTA Begins

Glad you like the idea of going to another part of the planet.  I know your epic has a good sized section dealing with the Land Down Under!

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 5:05 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] POTA Collectors

Yeah not good timing...whitty, smolen, sausville and
the farrell guy all selling at once! sheesh!

.

<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

This is gonna be slightly controversial, but then again so is my
whole POTA "mothership" scenario, so what's a bit more controversy?

In "ESCAPE" we learn from the Newscaster that 2 ships had been
thought to have "disintegrated in orbit"... and that 1 of those 2
ships is the one in which the Ape-onauts landed.

We also learn that that Ape-onaut ship was "the one commanded by
Colonel Taylor" -- by the President, who tells his audience of Joint
Chiefs that the ship in question was one of two ships which were
reported "missing".

I've mentioned before that these seemingly conflicting statements can
make sense if we deduce that ANSA somehow FAKED the deaths of those
crews, perhaps timing the jettisoning of their booster rockets so
that those boosters burned up in the atmosphere... so that Mission
Control could pretend that the spaceships had "disintegrated in
orbit", to keep the public (and NASA) from knowing that those ships
were capable of zooming away from the Earth at "nearly the speed of
light".

I've also mentioned that in my POTA scenario, the 2 ships in question
are NOT Taylor's and Brent's, but Taylor's and Virdon's, the first-
launched ANSA ship having left Earth around August of 1971 for Alpha
Centauri, half a year before Taylor's ship launched on 14 January
1972.

Virdon's ship fled Low Earth Orbit -- bang-zoom -- zipping at near-
light velocity towards Alpha Centauri, and its booster burned up in
the atmosphere, serving to fool the trackers (and the public) into
believing that Virdon's ship was destroyed, its crew killed.

Similarly, Taylor's ship fled Low Earth Orbit, but it didn't zip
towards its destination in Orion right away: it first had to dock
with the Orion Mission's command ship (the "mothership"), so that the
whole mission could then leave the Solar System. And, like Virdon's
ship, Taylor's ship would also detach its booster so that the booster
would burn up in the atmosphere -- so that the Newscaster,
in "ESCAPE", could report that both ships were THOUGHT to have
disintegrated in orbit.

But the President was told something else. That those two ships were
reported "missing" -- NOT necessarily destroyed during re-entry. In
Pournelle's novelization, he has the President telling Hasslein that
he (the President) was the one who sent Taylor off into space... but
in my scenario it was his predecessor -- the administration BEFORE
the one who was elected in November of 1972 -- who sent the Orion
Mission AND the Alpha Centauri Mission before it off into space. The
man elected in the 1972 election (portrayed by William Windom) was
told something the Public was NOT told -- that those 2 ships were
merely "missing" rather than destroyed in re-entry. But it seems that
this newly-elected President was NOT told the full truth: his
predecessor had evidently thought that the next President was not in
the need-to-know group behind these ANSA missions.

Here's the newest wrinkle I'm adding to my scenario: Colonel Taylor
was NOT the highest-ranking officer of the Orion Mission. Not
necessarily.

We don't know the rank of Brent's "Skipper". For that matter, we
don't know Brent's rank, either. In all probability, Dodge and Landon
were both Lieutenants (as we know Stewart was) -- in the script
for "ESCAPE" Hasslein refers to "Lieutenant Dodge". I would guess
that Brent, too, was a Lieutenant, though he may have been a Major,
as Pete Burke was.

In my scenario, the Command Ship for the Orion Mission -- like
Antelle's ship in Boulle's novel -- was designed to remain in orbit
whilst its 3 shuttles were available for landings on planets,
to "shuttle" astronauts to-and-from the orbiting ship and the surface
of a planet. That means that there had to be 3 different "skippers"
for each of the 3 ANSA shuttles flown up from Earth to rendezvous
with the Command Ship prior to the interstellar voyage.

Taylor was one of those three "skippers" -- flying the shuttle we see
in "ESCAPE" from Cape Kennedy up to its rendezvous.

Two other "skippers", then, had to have been the commanding officers
of those other two ANSA shuttles flown up to the rendezvous. The man
Brent calls "Skipper" will be one of those two men. In my scenario,
these other launches could have been from some place other than Cape
Kennedy -- perhaps disguised "missile tests" from an Air Force base,
or some such thing.

Thus, the 3 shuttles launched from Earth to rendezvous with the
Command Ship each had a "skipper" -- Taylor being one of them, and
the guy Brent calls "Skipper" being one of the other two.

Previously, I've referred to Taylor as the commanding officer of the
entire Orion Mission... but the more I've been mulling it over, the
more it makes sense to have the Orion Mission have somebody OTHER
than Taylor be in command of the whole she-bang.

It just doesn't make sense that Taylor and 3 others would be kept
awake for a third of the entire ship's voyage -- 6 of the 18 months
of SHIP-TIME -- and THEN put into hibernation for the remaining 12
months, with NOBODY awake during most of the voyage. Why not stagger
the hibernation periods, so that one of them is put into hibernation
soon after the voyage begins (sleeping from Month 1 through Month
12)... another put under to sleep from Month 3 through Month 14... a
third put under to sleep from Month 5 through Month 16... and the
last (Taylor himself) to go into hibernation from Month 7 through
Month 18? That way, there's almost always SOMEBODY awake to monitor
the ship's computer systems (etc), and everybody is awake for the
same period of 6 months, just not all at the same time (the first 6
months). Only for the period from Month 7 to Month 12 would all four
of them be asleep at the same time, 5 months out of the entire 18.

By hypothesizing a larger Orion Mission -- a "mothership" with 3 ANSA
shuttles, with a larger total crew -- this problem is effectively
erased. While Taylor and "his" crew (Dodge, Stewart, and Landon) goes
into their "long sleep" of hibernation (from Month 7 through Month
18), other personnel in the Orion Mission are still awake. During
that first 6 months, while Taylor/Dodge/Stewart/Landon are still
awake, other ANSA astronauts on this Orion Mission are in hibernation.

There are 4 hibernation chambers in the shuttle Taylor and his crew
hibernate in. There are probably 4 hibernation chambers in the ship
we see in "BENEATH", though I'm not suggesting that there were 2
occupied chambers during the scene with Brent and his "Skipper".
Evidently, only those two guys were on that ship as it landed in the
Forbidden Zone -- sent (by somebody "up there") to find Taylor -- AND
HIS CREW -- so as to rescue them. They would need the room for all 4
astronauts in addition to themselves, if they were to successfully
rescue everybody.

Landon calls Taylor his "Skipper". Brent refers to the fellow
astronaut ("Maddox" or "Haddon", whatever his name is) as "Skipper".
Perhaps Taylor AND that other guy were both Colonels in this branch
of the military, in addition to the other guy who was took command of
the 3rd shuttle (the same shuttle that Taylor had been in command of
during its launch from Cape Kennedy).

But SOMEBODY had to be in command of the entire mission. It makes
sense that a subordinate commander would be "posted" to go into
hibernation in one of the two ANSA shuttles equipped with hibernation
chambers -- which suggests that Taylor was a subordinate commander.
But the guy in charge of the Orion Mission -- Taylor's commanding
officer -- would hibernate (if at all) in the actual Command Ship
itself. If there were a catastrophe onboard (if, say, the nuclear
reactor powering the ship's systems were to go critical), then the
two "sister"-ships (the "PLANET" shuttle and the "BENEATH" shuttle)
would detach from their umbilical connections and distance themselves
from their 'Mothership' so as not to share in its catastrophic fate.
But the mission's Commander would "go down with the ship" so to
speak, as the 2 safe detached shuttles would then go their separate
ways, as "lifeboats".

The Orion Mission's commanding officer would have to have a rank
above that of 'Colonel' (since Taylor, we find out in "ESCAPE" was a
Colonel). Currently, the rank hierarchy in the U.S. armed forces are:

ARMY:
W1 - Warrant Officer 1 [WO1]
W2 - Chief Warrant Officer 2 [CW2]
W3 - Chief Warrant Officer 3 [CW3]
W4 - Chief Warrant Officer 4 [CW4]
W5 - Chief Warrant Officer [CW5]
O1 - Second Lieutenant [2LT]
O2 - First Lieutenant [1LT]
O3 - Captain [CPT]
O4 - Major [MAJ]
O5 - Lieutenant Colonel [LTC]
O6 - Colonel [COL]
O7 - Brigadier General [BG]
O8 - Major General [MG]
O9 - Lieutenant General [LTG]
O10 - General [GEN] = Army Chief of Staff
General of the Army (reserved for wartime only)

NAVY (and COAST GUARD):
W1 - USN Warrant Officer 1 [WO1]
W2 - USN Chief Warrant Officer 2 [CW2]
W3 - USN Chief Warrant Officer 3 [CW3]
W4 - USN Chief Warrant Officer 4 [CW4]
W5 - USN Chief Warrant Officer [CW5]
O1 - Ensign [ENS]
O2 - Lieutenant Junior Grade [LTJG]
O3 - Lieutenant [LT]
O4 - Lieutenant Commander [LCDR]
O5 - Commander [CDR]
O6 - Captain [CAPT]
O7 - Rear Admiral Lower Half [RADM (LH)]
O8 - Rear Admiral Upper Half [RADM (UH)]
O9 - Vice Admiral [VADM]
O10 - Admiral [ADM] = Chief of Naval Operations & Commandant of the
Coast Guard
Fleet Admiral (reserved for wartime only)


MARINES:
W1 - Warrant Officer 1 [WO]
W2 - Chief Warrant Officer 2 [CWO2]
W3 - Chief Warrant Officer 3 [CWO3]
W4 - Chief Warrant Officer 4 [CWO4]
W5 - Chief Warrant Officer [CWO5]
O1 - Second Lieutenant [2nd Lt.]
O2 - First Lieutenant [1st Lt.]
O3 - Captain [Capt.]
O4 - Major [Maj.]
O5 - Lieutenant Colonel [Lt. Col.]
O6 - Colonel [Col.]
O7 - Brigadier General [Brig. Gen.]
O8 - Major General [Maj. Gen.]
O9 - Lieutenant General [Lt. Gen.]
O10 - General [Gen.] = Commandant of the Marine Corps

AIR FORCE:
W1 - no warrant
W2 - no warrant
W3 - no warrant
W4 - no warrant
W5 - no warrant
O1 - Second Lieutenant [2nd Lt.]
O2 - First Lieutenant [1st Lt.]
O3 - Captain [Capt.]
O4 - Major [Maj.]
O5 - Lieutenant Colonel [Lt. Col.]
O6 - Colonel [Col.]
O7 - Brigadier General [Brig. Gen.]
O8 - Major General [Maj. Gen.]
O9 - Lieutenant General [Lt. Gen.]
O10 - General [Gen.] = Air Force Chief of Staff
General of the Air Force (reserved for wartime only)

Unlike STAR TREK's Starfleet, the ANSA rank system does not use NAVY
style ranks ("Admiral" and "Ensign" for example). And, the rank
of "Colonel" is not found in the NAVY. Thus, ANSA probably uses the
very same ranking system as the ARMY, MARINES, and AIR FORCE,
although the Air Force doesn't have Warrant Officers in its hierarchy.

Pete Burke is a "Major" -- i.e. a rank of "O4". Stewart is referred
to as "Lieutenant", which would make her either a 1st Lieutenant [O1]
or a 2nd Lieutenant [O2]. Taylor and Virdon are both Colonels [O6].

The only ranks above Colonel, then, are:
O7 - Brigadier General
O8 - Major General
O9 - Lieutenant General
O10 - General
and the 3 top military officials ("reserved for wartime only") under
the President: General of the Army, Fleet Admiral, and General of the
Air Force.

In my scenario, the man in-charge of the entire Orion Mission --
ranking higher than Colonel Taylor -- will be either
an "O7", "O8", "O9" or "O10"... I haven't yet decided which.

Not even the President (in "ESCAPE") knows that an interstellar
mission had left Earth nearly a year before his inauguration,
commanded by a Brigadier General (or higher). The President knows
that two shuttles -- commanded by Colonels, Virdon and Taylor -- had
launched up into orbit, and that after going "missing" one of them
had returned. But he doesn't know the true nature of those ANSA
flights. Not even he was in the need-to-know circle.

The Orion Mission will have 3 tiers of rank: one man in command of
the whole mission, with 3 mid-level commanders (colonels, Taylor
being one of those three) and the rest being the 3 "teams" serving
under those 3 mid-level commanders (each team comprised of
lieutenants, captains, majors and/or lieutenant colonels) as well as
the "team" of astronaut-soldiers who remain on the orbiting Command
Ship at all times. The 3-person "team" serving under Taylor he refers
to as "my crew" -- but they don't represent ALL the crewmembers of
the Orion Mission. Just the ones under his direct command. But
there's somebody else on the Command Ship under whom Taylor, too,
serves. A Brigadier General or higher. And it was THAT guy who
ordered Brent and his 'skipper' to land near Taylor's landing site
and to go rescue him (and his crew), if they could find 'em.

Patrick

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 6:14 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] POTA Begins

It DOES look like that Seattle Space Needle!  But yes, it’s Centrepoint Tower , Sydney (I recall for years as a child staying next to the hotel next door, watching its construction through the window!).

.

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In a message dated 10/25/2006 3:39:31 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Yeah and so I can pay the bastard for all these comics!

And you guys thought he just loves a good writer!  J

 

Does he charge extra for color?

<.html

Nice splash. Nifty lizard creature at the bottom, with an interesting
mutation. I also dig the logo.

Greg

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil T Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- Not just yet, but here's the next page of POTA Begins...
>
>
>
> Neil

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.html <.html

bad timing for me being low on cash....and the
holidays are on their way...sigh..

TIm

--- Michael Whitty <whitty@...> wrote:

> Look on the bright side - good time to BUY! :-)
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 5:05 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] POTA Collectors
>
> * Yeah not good timing...whitty, smolen,
> sausville and
> the farrell guy all selling at once! sheesh!
>
> Tim
>
> --- Neil T Foster <ntfoster@bigpond.
> <mailto:ntfoster%40bigpond.com>
> com> wrote:
>
> > -- There is some nice stuff there. I wonder why
> > there seems to be a few
> > of the big collectors selling up lately?
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.
> <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com
> > [PotaDG@yahoogroups.
> <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com] On
> Behalf
> > Of Michael Whitty
> > Sent: Tuesday, 24 October 2006 9:15 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.
> <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] POTA Collectors
> >
> >
> > There's a collector selling up on eBay and he's
> > begun with a lot of what
> > I consider to be a basic "starter" collector's
> set.
> >
>
>
> --
>

I still haven't got a copy of the first rarities disc, so I'm not
100% on what's already been covered but I do have a couple of things
from the Tim Burton era. Like the fox special with interviews with
celebs like Rob Zombie and it does touch on the original. The MTV
movie awards opening with the gorilla soldier's dancing. The E!
special and "Backstory". I also have the episode of "The Re-Run Show"
where they re-enact an entire episode of "Married with Children" in
Planet of the Apes make-up and themes. I'll have to check what else I
may have. If Greg or someone would just let me know if your
interested in any of this, I'd be happy to get it to you.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/24/2006 6:34:30 AM Central Standard Time,
> whitty@... writes:
>
>
> > I’m not going to give away too much, but if anyone here has
anything that
> > was not on the first disc, please say something and we’ll see
if we can get it
> >
>
> *** I second what Whitty just said... If you have ANYTHING not
on "volume
> one" get it to Hunter a.s.a.p.
>
> I just sent him quite a bit of footage, and I certainly would like
to see
> more added to it...
>

Whaddaya MEAN, "WHAT Nuclear War"???

I, of course, don't go for the Altered Timeline scenario, but let's
just go with it for the sake of argument (since you've indicated that
this "POTA Begins" story is NOT a Circular Timeline story.

We know that prior to "PLANET" the Earth suffered a Nuclear War nearly
2,000 prior to the events of the film (i.e. End of 20th/Beginning of
21st Century). The terrain around Dead Lake is poisonous -- because it
had been irradiated by nukeblasts. Taylor calls upon God Himself to
condemn Man because "They finally, really DID it!... You blew it up!"
And, lastly, soon afterward Taylor is abducted by telepathic mutants
who conduct a Church ceremony where they refer to "the blessings of the
Holy Fallout" etc.

I don't believe that the Ape-onauts changed anything, mind you, but
let's "go with it" for the sake of this discussion. Those who believe
that Caesar really DID change the Future -- as he wanted to, as he
hoped to -- can believe all they want that there will be no Doomsday in
3955 or whenever. BUT THEY CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THERE WASN'T A NUCLEAR
WAR!!!

Caesar -- at the end of "CONQUEST" -- mentions in his tirade how Man
will "finally and self-destructively" wipe out his civilization, his
cities lying "buried under RADIOACTIVE RUBBLE" etc etc. In 2670 (of
this hopefully "changed" timeline) the 'nice' Lawgiver recounts how
AFTER Caesar freed his people from the yoke of human slavery, Mankind
waged "the vilest war in Man's history" in which the cities of the
world were FLATTENED.

During "BATTLE" Kolp mentions how the former Governor Breck had been
killed by "the BOMB". Virgil, during the voyage of Caesar to the
Archives, carries along a GEIGER COUNTER to register the amount of
radioactivity present at that nuked city.

If you want to believe that Caesar -- using the foreknowledge gained
from his trip to the Archives -- actually managed to CHANGE the future,
so that Taylor wouldn't experience the nastiness of "PLANET"
and "BENEATH" when he eventually returns... well, go ahead. But that
DOESN'T prevent the Nuclear War!!! Caesar didn't even learn about the
End of the World until MacDonald (in "BATTLE") TOLD him about it,
around 12 years or so AFTER that Nuke War had already happened.

As for the 'ruins' of Sydney, well, if you're hinting that a Neutron
Bomb did the trick there, that's okay with me. I think it likely that
the U.S. arsenal (among others) actually has some Neutron Bombs amongst
its missile systems. It wouldn't surprise me if there are other
countries that also would develop Neutron Bombs so as to kill the
inhabitants with radiation yet leaving the infrastructure relatively
intact. Is THAT where you're going with this "POTA Begins" story?

Well, you have my answer. There WAS a Nuclear War in the "PLANET"
scenario, regardless of whether you're a Circular Timeliner or a
Changed Timeliner -- that is, if you're talking about the POTA films
and/or the TV show. You're not setting this story in the RETURN POTA
universe, are ya? Well, even so I think they established that there was
a Nuke War in THAT set-up, too!

"Well, we're all irradiated, but at least we're still active!"

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> Patrick - or ANYONE - can you tell me what makes you think there WAS a
> NUCLEAR war?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
> Of patrickmichaeltilton
> Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 4:42 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] POTA Begins
>
> When does this story take place? Soon after the Nuke War?

.html In a message dated 10/25/2006 10:48:08 AM Central Standard Time, DrZaiusDavis@... writes:

I also have the episode of "The Re-Run Show"
where they re-enact an entire episode of "Married with Children" in
Planet of the Apes make-up and themes.

*** Get THAT sent to Hunter... If you need me to, I can provide his address to you... LMK...<.html

Hunter's not keen on including material from the Burton film on the
discs, although there was an exception made for the first disc (I
think it's the same Fox special you're refering to).

Best thing would be to e-mail Hunter (goathunter@...), tell
him what you have and he'll let you know if it's something he
already has or would like to include.

Greg

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John" <DrZaiusDavis@...> wrote:
>
> I still haven't got a copy of the first rarities disc, so I'm not
> 100% on what's already been covered but I do have a couple of
things
> from the Tim Burton era. Like the fox special with interviews with
> celebs like Rob Zombie and it does touch on the original. The MTV
> movie awards opening with the gorilla soldier's dancing. The E!
> special and "Backstory". I also have the episode of "The Re-Run
Show"
> where they re-enact an entire episode of "Married with Children"
in
> Planet of the Apes make-up and themes. I'll have to check what
else I
> may have. If Greg or someone would just let me know if your
> interested in any of this, I'd be happy to get it to you.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:

>
> Hey there Patrick - WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN DUDE?!?!?
>
> Michael

-------------------------------------------------------------

*** Oh, you know... workin' on my POTA epic, that sorta thing. Of
late, I've been working on drawing up schematics for my infamous
Mothership. In order to make it as plausible as I can, I'm stealing
as many good ideas as I can from other spaceship designs -- including
some details that Shane Johnson put into his blueprint of the
DISCOVERY from "2001" (a 3-page fold out "centerfold" from an old
STARLOG magazine that came out when "BATMAN RETURNS" was in
theaters). Kubrick destroyed pretty much everything he could
after "2001" was released -- he didn't want other movies to use his
model-props, the way Robby the Robot was put to use in all sorts of
movies and TV shows after "FORBIDDEN PLANET". Shane Johnson (a
blueprint-maker par excellance) drew up schematics of the DISCOVERY,
showing a side-view, a cutaway sideview of the spherical module at
the front, and a deck-plan for the pod-bay level.

One interesting thing he has in his schematics -- a logical
interpretation of a detail shown in exterior views of the ship -- is
a set of 8 reaction-control thrusters on the sphere section: he
imagines that the ship was designed so that the sphere could detach
from the long, segmented "spinal column" that extended all the way
back to the engines, and that the sphere section would have to use
thrusters to maneuver. So, Shane interpreted a series of 8
circular 'holes' on the sphere section (4 on the sphere's 'arctic
circle' at the 2:00, 4:00, 8:00, and 10:00 positions ("12:00" being
Straight Ahead, of course), and the other 4 being on the 'antarctic
circle', so to speak. His interpretation makes sense, and I've
adopted a similar set of reaction-control thrusters to my Orion
Mission Command Ship design.

My "mothership" isn't a SPHERE, like the Command Module of the
DISCOVERY in "2001", but it's similar: it's an ELLIPSOID with roughly
the same elliptical dimensions as the ANSA shuttles (the fore/aft
view). Its dimensions are roughly 50 feet tall x 80 feet wide x 128
feet long (those are the lengths of the major axes of the 3 ellipses:
a Top view shows an elliptical shape 80 x 128 feet, a Front view
shows an elliptical shape 50 x 80 feet, and a Side view shows a more
eccentric elliptical shape 50 x 128 feet.

In addition to the Command Ship -- which has docking points for the
two "sister" ships (the ones we see in "PLANET" and "BENEATH") on the
Top and Bottom of the ship (connecting their circular airlock hatches
at the Aft "focal" point of the Top View ellipse -- I've got two
major airlocks, both of 'em amidships on the Port and Starboard side,
and on either side of each airlock there are 2 EVA pods. Rather than
have those pods in a "pod bay" (like the 3 pods in the DISCOVERY), I
have these 4 pods (2 on each side) each "plugged-in" to a docking
port like a Lego. Each is a 2-man pod, where 1 astronaut controls the
pods movements while the other one manipulates the "waldoes" for
working on the construction of the ship (prior to the time when the
ship warps out towards its destination in Orion). These 4 pods also
have an elliptical outline (when seen from Front or Back), but the
ellipse is Tall, not Wide like the Front/Back view of the shuttles
we've already seen. The pods' "waldo" arms make the things look like
big beetles and the astronauts will affectionately nickname
them "John", "Paul", "George" and "Ringo". The pods will NOT have
Hyperdrive engines, though: only the Command Ship and the 3 ANSA
shuttles will be equipped with Hyperdrives.

As far as the nitty-gritty details go, I'm trying to incorporate as
many 'original' POTA elements as I can, to make it mesh with the
designs of the ANSA shuttles we've already seen. You know... where
best to put those C-shaped handles for use in Zero-gravity, that
sorta thing. I'll see if I can scan in some of my preliminary design
sketches, to give you a sense of what I'm trying to do. One a-these
days I'm gonna hafta shell out the dough for a CAD program; I tried
downloading a "free" one, but after 5 hours of downloading time
wasted, the damned thing somehow wouldn't work... and now I'm getting
emails from the company that put those freebies up, trying to sell me
their products -- they run about $1500 bucks! Zoinks!

Ah, well... I guess for now it's a matter of Pens & Rulers &
Templates for drawing circles & ellipses...

Patrick

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 4:42 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] POTA Begins

... But are these ruins of  Sydney from a Nuke attack? After all, you've got a lizard smack dab in   the foreground,

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 6:29 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] POTA Begins

Of course, this is NOT a CIRCULAR timeline. 

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 6:32 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] POTA Begins

On a linear time-line, we would start in World War 2.

Neil, did you keep that article about the scientist who played around with genetics?  Funny how nobody really knows where or when he died –or IF he died!

.

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Attachments :

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 7:34 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] POTA Begins - the ravages of war.

For example – the next page will show that the fellow driving the car is.......... ......... .....Neil – could you please share the next page?

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 6:39 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] POTA Begins

Well, that lizard sure has a lot of legs!  That’s SOME evidence that there is SOME extent of fallout..... .

But what do you really think the most effective weapons are?  Ones that leave buildings and cities intact...... .

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 6:41 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Who's in charge?

I've mentioned before that these seemingly conflicting statements can
make sense if we deduce that ANSA somehow FAKED the deaths of those
crews, perhaps timing the jettisoning of their booster rockets so
that those boosters burned up in the atmosphere.. . so that Mission
Control could pretend that the spaceships had "disintegrated in
orbit", to keep the public (and NASA) from knowing that those ships
were capable of zooming away from the Earth at "nearly the speed of
light".

Virdon's ship fled Low Earth Orbit -- bang-zoom -- zipping at near-
light velocity towards Alpha Centauri, and its booster burned up in
the atmosphere, serving to fool the trackers (and the public) into
believing that Virdon's ship was destroyed, its crew killed.

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 1:37 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: POTA Rarities Disc

I also have the episode of "The Re-Run Show"
where they re-enact an entire episode of "Married with Children" in
Planet of the Apes make-up and themes.

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 2:26 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: POTA Begins - WHAT Nuclear War

Whaddaya MEAN, "WHAT Nuclear War"???

.

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This was a short lived sit-com I taped off of VH1 a few years ago.
They would take classic TV show scripts word for word and put some
kind of twist to them. They do the "Married with Children"
episode "Dance Show" where Peg goes out dancing without Al and he
thinks she may be having an affair. Its pretty strange. They use the
old "Married" sets and all but all the main characters are in ape
make-up and instead of her dance partner just turning out to be a gay
guy.... he's also a human animal. The real Bud Bundy has a camo as
Peg's gay partner's husband. The make-up is about as bad as the SNL
skit. I've never found anyone else who has even heard of this show.
It didn't last long.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil T Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- I've never heard of this. What's is it and which episode did
they do?
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of John
> Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 1:37 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: POTA Rarities Disc
>
>
>
> I also have the episode of "The Re-Run Show"
> where they re-enact an entire episode of "Married with Children" in
> Planet of the Apes make-up and themes.
>
> .
>
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?
s=97359714/grpId=8605785/grpspId=1705021437/m
> sgId=41703/stime=1161791235/nc1=3858795/nc2=3848610/nc3=3848443>
>

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of TZer0@...
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 10:36 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] POTA Collectors

In a message dated 10/25/2006 3:39:31 A.M. Central Standard Time, whitty@cyberone. com.au writes:

Yeah and so I can pay the bastard for all these comics!

And you guys thought he just loves a good writer!  J

 

Does he charge extra for color?

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 6:35 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] POTA Collectors

Yeah and so I can pay the bastard for all these comics!

And you guys thought he just loves a good writer!  J

.

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According to Moscow newspapers, Stalin told the scientist: "I want a new invincible human being, insensitive to pain, resistant and indifferent about the quality of food they eat."

 

In 1926 the Politburo in Moscow passed the request to the Academy of Science with the order to build a "living war machine". The order came at a time when the Soviet Union was embarked on a crusade to turn the world upside down, with social engineering seen as a partner to industrialisation: new cities, architecture, and a new egalitarian society were being created.

 

The Soviet authorities were struggling to rebuild the Red Army after bruising wars.

 

And there was intense pressure to find a new labour force, particularly one that would not complain, with Russia about to embark on its first Five-Year Plan for fast-track industrialisation.

 

Mr Ivanov was highly regarded. He had established his reputation under the Tsar when in 1901 he established the world's first centre for the artificial insemination of racehorses.

 

Mr Ivanov's ideas were music to the ears of Soviet planners and in 1926 he was dispatched to West Africa with $200,000 to conduct his first experiment in impregnating chimpanzees.

 

Meanwhile, a centre for the experiments was set up in Georgia - Stalin's birthplace - for the apes to be raised.

 

Mr Ivanov's experiments, unsurprisingly from what we now know, were a total failure. He returned to the Soviet Union, only to see experiments in Georgia to use monkey sperm in human volunteers similarly fail.

 

A final attempt to persuade a Cuban heiress to lend some of her monkeys for further experiments reached American ears, with the New York Times reporting on the story, and she dropped the idea amid the uproar.

 

Mr Ivanov was now in disgrace. His were not the only experiments going wrong: the plan to collectivise farms ended in the 1932 famine in which at least four million died.

 

For his expensive failure, he was sentenced to five years' jail, which was later commuted to five years' exile in the Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan in 1931. A year later he died, reportedly after falling sick while standing on a freezing railway platform.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 8:44 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] POTA Begins

Please do.

 

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In a message dated 10/25/2006 8:13:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- Okay, found it:

 

Stalin's half-man, half-ape super-warriors

 

THE Soviet dictator Josef Stalin ordered the creation of Planet of the Apes-style warriors by crossing humans with apes, according to recently uncovered secret documents.

 

Moscow archives show that in the mid-1920s Russia's top animal breeding scientist, Ilya Ivanov, was ordered to turn his skills from horse and animal work to the quest for a super-warrior.

According to Moscow newspapers, Stalin told the scientist: "I want a new invincible human being, insensitive to pain, resistant and indifferent about the quality of food they eat."

 

In 1926 the Politburo in Moscow passed the request to the Academy of Science with the order to build a "living war machine". The order came at a time when the Soviet Union was embarked on a crusade to turn the world upside down, with social engineering seen as a partner to industrialisation: new cities, architecture, and a new egalitarian society were being created.

 

The Soviet authorities were struggling to rebuild the Red Army after bruising wars.

 

And there was intense pressure to find a new labour force, particularly one that would not complain, with Russia about to embark on its first Five-Year Plan for fast-track industrialisation.

 

Mr Ivanov was highly regarded. He had established his reputation under the Tsar when in 1901 he established the world's first centre for the artificial insemination of racehorses.

 

Mr Ivanov's ideas were music to the ears of Soviet planners and in 1926 he was dispatched to West Africa with $200,000 to conduct his first experiment in impregnating chimpanzees.

 

Meanwhile, a centre for the experiments was set up in Georgia - Stalin's birthplace - for the apes to be raised.

 

Mr Ivanov's experiments, unsurprisingly from what we now know, were a total failure. He returned to the Soviet Union, only to see experiments in Georgia to use monkey sperm in human volunteers similarly fail.

 

A final attempt to persuade a Cuban heiress to lend some of her monkeys for further experiments reached American ears, with the New York Times reporting on the story, and she dropped the idea amid the uproar.

 

Mr Ivanov was now in disgrace. His were not the only experiments going wrong: the plan to collectivise farms ended in the 1932 famine in which at least four million died.

 

For his expensive failure, he was sentenced to five years' jail, which was later commuted to five years' exile in the Central Asian republic of Kazakhstan in 1931. A year later he died, reportedly after falling sick while standing on a freezing railway platform.

 

 

Neil

 

Was this from Weekly World News?

Bill

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of atragon1@...
Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 11:01 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] POTA Begins

Was this from Weekly World News?

.

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Yeah, it sure is. I sent Hunter an email about it. Just waiting to
hear if he wants to include it or not and how to get it to him.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds awesome!
>
> While this came out around the Tim Burton time, it's based on the
> CLASSIC movies right?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of John
> Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 7:53 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: POTA Rarities Disc
>
> This was a short lived sit-com I taped off of VH1 a few years ago.
> They would take classic TV show scripts word for word and put some
> kind of twist to them. They do the "Married with Children"
> episode "Dance Show" where Peg goes out dancing without Al and he
> thinks she may be having an affair. Its pretty strange. They use
the
> old "Married" sets and all but all the main characters are in ape
> make-up and instead of her dance partner just turning out to be a
gay
> guy.... he's also a human animal. The real Bud Bundy has a camo as
> Peg's gay partner's husband. The make-up is about as bad as the SNL
> skit. I've never found anyone else who has even heard of this show.
> It didn't last long.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com>
com, "Neil
> T Foster" <ntfoster@> wrote:
> >
> > -- I've never heard of this. What's is it and which episode did
> they do?
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups. <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com]
On
> Behalf
> > Of John
> > Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 1:37 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: POTA Rarities Disc
> >
> >
> >
> > I also have the episode of "The Re-Run Show"
> > where they re-enact an entire episode of "Married with Children"
in
> > Planet of the Apes make-up and themes.
>
> --
>

Attachments :

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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:

>
> Yeah there were nukes Patrick.
>
> My theory is that before the nukes happened, there was a war using

neutrons and chemical warfare.

>
> This drove the population underground, literally.
>
> Now - as for the nuclear war and PLANET - in PLANET it is STRONGLY

suggested there was a nuclear war. However I don't think anyone
comes right out and says it. Yes humanity handed earth over to the
apes, but nothing SPECIFICALLY states it was the NUCLEAR bogey-man.

>
> Beneath is where they really get the nuclear bogey-man showing up.
>
> Michael

----------------------------------------------------------

*** You want specifics? Howzabout these:

1) Dodge: "Nothing will grow here" (etc)
2) Cornelius: "The terrain around that lake is poisonous"
3) Lawgiver: "... for he [Man] will make a desert of his home and
yours..."
4) Zaius: "The Forbidden Zone was once a Paradise! Your breed made a
desert of it, ages ago!"
5) Taylor: "You [Mankind] BLEW IT UP!"
6) Cornelius: "The Lawgiver pronounced this whole area deadly!"

How ELSE could Man have made a desert of a once-livable environment,
Mike??? Taylor speculates that "a storm of meteors" could've done the
damage, but that's really not feasible. A meteor storm could wipe out
a civilization, but it wouldn't cause the strike-zones to become
radioactive and hence UNLIVABLE. The region became "deadly", where
nothing could grow in it. And Man somehow caused that. I can't think
of any other plausible mechanism other than Nukes.

One of the strengths of "PLANET" is that the movie was an anti-
nuke 'message' movie... and nobody KNEW it until the very end, the
surprise ending of the Statue. That's what made such an impression on
audiences. A mystery had been set-up, and the SOLUTION to it --
the "answer" that Taylor had been looking for -- was like a knife in
the guts... twisted to do as much psychological damage as it could.

Patrick

.htmlBut he was when this page was originally posted. :)<.html

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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> Hey all,
>
> Please comment.
>
> Even if you say "that's rubbish" or "what's that hovercraft thing?",
> Neil has decided if there are no comments he won't continue to upload
> these.
>
> Maybe even "thanks" will do.
>
> Michael
>

Hi Michael, just got onto the site today so I'm a few days posts behind...

So "whats that hover craft thing" and "thanks"

Give me awhile and I'll catch up and get back with some thing more substantial.

Best Graham.

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Attachments :

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.htmlPollution combined with deforestation will also turn an area into a poisonous desert, and they're much more likely to be tolerated until it's too late. Radioactivity is never mentioned in Planet.<.html

This, really, IS the biggest 'pain' I've had to deal with, trying to
re-interpret Dehn's mistakes. It's bad enough that he imagined the
Brent/Skipper mission to "rescue" Taylor -- presumably sent out from
planet Earth to follow him across 320 lightyears of space and all
that. And then he goes and gives Skipper dialogue about his "wife"
and his "two daughters" being "dead... everyone I ever knew..." ...
as if he didn't expect the EARTH-TIME clock to mysteriously click
ahead to the year 3955 when he left Earth to "rescue" an astronaut.

It's too bad that Serling and/or Wilson weren't around to go, "Ahem,
uh, Mister Dehn? Uh, you should pay better attention to the first
film, because we already established that Taylor's ship was intended
to fly out to a star system 320 lightyears away, and that they would
reach it in the year 3978 despite aging only 18 months due to Time
Dilation effects...."

So, Dehn gives this Skipper dude a wife and two daughters that he
somehow thought he'd be able to see again when he got back from a
rescue mission... and, later, when they made the TV show, they give
Virdon and Jonesy families, too! ARGH!!!

In order to make SOME kinda sense out of this AND be true to the
general scenario set-up in "PLANET", I've had to establish some
rather controversial notions.

For example, Taylor tells Landon: "You volunteered... why?" Then
Taylor clues him in on his reasons... Landon was the Golden Boy of
the Class of '72 and, when he was nominated for "the Big One" (the
Orion Mission) he couldn't turn it down, not without losing his All-
American image... and the Glory! Somewhere out there [back on Earth]
there's a life-size bronze statue of him that's probably turned green
by now and nobody can read the nameplate, but let it never be said
that we forget our Heroes... and, one last thing: Immortality! Landon
wanted to live forever and -- by experiencing Time Dilation effects
at near-lightspeed, he's managed to survive to the late 40th Century.

Landon VOLUNTEERED. For vainglorious reasons, granted. But he
volunteered. He wasn't FORCED to go on the mission. That means that
these ANSA missions were NOT mandatory -- nobody could be ordered to
go against their will. Thus, ALL of these astronauts CHOSE to be a
part of each mission: Virdon AND Burke AND Jones all had to have
chosen to go on their trip to Alpha Centauri -- 2 of 'em knowing that
they would be travelling over 25 trillion miles away from their own
families!

Virdon and Jones are the hardest to "explain away". But, if you grant
the nuts-&-bolts set-up of "PLANET" -- that it takes a relatively
short amount of SHIP-TIME to travel to another star system... but a
much LONGER amount of EARTH-TIME for the stay-at-homes... then each
decision to leave a wife and child behind would have to be, well,
intentional and perhaps a bit vainglorious. In essence, married men
with children would have to VOLUNTEER to go on the Alpha Centauri
mission KNOWING that they'd be leaving their spouses and children
back on Earth -- where they would age more than the astronauts.

In my scenario, Virdon and Jones decided to go on the trip because
they would be the first human beings to travel to another star
system... that's a distinction even more impressive than being the
first chimpanzee ever to be born in a circus, or the first baby to be
born on the Moon!

The only trouble is that the round-trip, from Earth to Alpha Centauri
and back to Earth again, would take a few days of SHIP-TIME... and
about TWENTY YEARS of EARTH-TIME. When Virdon and Jones got back to
Earth, their wives would be 20 years older... their kids would be
adults -- probably as "old" (in "Self-Time") as their astronaut dads.

Virdon, in a way, (in my scenario) knowingly takes on a situation
reminiscent of Odysseus in that he anticipated being away from his
family for 20 EARTH-TIME years, though Odysseus didn't WANT to go to
Troy, and didn't dream he'd be away from his wife and son for 20
years.

To make this "choice" of Virdon's more palatable, I've decided to
figure in a bit of "marital strife". Virdon chooses his career -- and
the distinction of being the first man to command a mission to
another star -- over his marriage. His astronaut career had already
caused his wife some sleepless nights -- especially since he couldn't
tell her about it (ANSA being a Top-Secret agency, unlike the
civilian NASA). Virdon had been the kind of man who wanted to "have
it all"... a magnificent opportunity to achieve professionally, AND a
wife & kids & a dog & a house with a picket fence.

He COULD have declined the opportunity. He COULD have told ANSA that
he just loves his wife too much to be apart from her for an
unreasonable amount of time (EARTH-TIME). He COULD let some other
astronaut command the Centauri mission. He weighs the pros & cons in
the balances... and opts for the distinction of being the first man
(with 2 others) to travel to another star system. Take THAT, Neil
Armstrong! Neil took the "small step"... but Virdon would take
the "giant leap" across a distance of 4.34 lightyears!

And all he had to sacrifice was his life at home with his wife and
son.

Jones, too, had to volunteer to be on the mission... knowing he'd be
leaving his family behind. Perhaps they could go on the mission
knowing that their families would be financially taken care of by the
Government in their absence: they would get to spend the money their
astronaut husbands were earning during their absence.

They didn't expect to be gone longer than 20 years of EARTH-TIME
(experiencing only a few days of SHIP-TIME themselves).

Their wives and children... would they know their husbands are not
really dead, the way the rest of the Public were meant to believe?
Were they assured that the 'official story' was not true? Or, would
they be kept in-the-dark about it? If their astronaut husbands KNEW
that the trip would entail faking their deaths, and that their
families would falsely believe them to be dead... would they have
volunteered to go? Wouldn't their decision be all-the-more gut-
wrenching for them, knowing that their loved ones would believe them
to be dead, and that this deception had to be willingly enacted by
them when they went on this voyage?

What price would any of us pay to get one of three seats in the first
interstellar mission in human history? In my scenario, Virdon and
Jones go out of their way to be a part of the Centauri Mission --
even though they know it means they'll be away from Earth for about
20 EARTH-TIME years: the mission, the eventual glory of this Top-
Secret mission, is more important to them than staying home with
their families. There are enough ANSA astronauts in the program so
that ANSA could make it a non-married-men-only mission, but they open
it up for volunteers... and Virdon and Jones, though married, both
volunteer for it. And, their expertise makes them two of the best men
for the mission.

ANSA: "Are you two SURE you want to go? After all, you've both got
wives and kids... what about them? They can't know about the
mission's true purpose -- that's Top-Secret. They'll be fooled into
thinking that you're dead. Everybody on Earth will think you burned
up during a re-entry maneuver. You won't get back until 1990...
twenty years from now. Your "widows" will probably have remarried by
then... your kids will be as old as you are NOW... so, are you SURE
you want to go to Alpha Centauri?"

And, even knowing all that, they say "Yes".

It's easier to deal with Brent's Skipper. Skipper mentions his wife
and two daughters being dead. Dehn, of course, meant for us to
imagine that they were ALIVE when he left on the rescue mission, and
that he was supposed to get back to Earth soon after he left. But...
the same line of dialogue CAN be re-interpreted thusly: his wife and
two daughters had died BEFORE the Orion Mission was to go out.
Originally, he didn't want to go on the mission because he -- unlike
Virdon and Jones -- did NOT want to leave his family behind. But,
after his wife and kids die -- perhaps in a traffic accident, or
they're killed during a bank-heist gone bad (or some similar sort of
crime scene, innocent victims of crime in the violent 20th Century) --
it's AFTER losing his wife and kids that Skipper, having nothing
left to stay on Earth for, almost begs to be a part of the Orion
Mission.

Thus, when Brent tells his blind, dying Skipper that they're lucky to
be alive on an unknown planet orbiting an unknown star in 3955,
Skipper -- knowing he's dying -- bitterly mutters, "Lucky?" His wife
and two daughters... dead. Everyone he ever knew are all dead.

Perhaps, after the crash-landing, Skipper started to lose his mind
the same way he had lost his eyesight. After the addling experience
of multi-gees during re-entry, a crash that causes him to "blow a
lung" (according to the script) and be on the verge of dying without
accomplishing his mission... perhaps he had been starting to
hallucinate that he was back on Earth after all. Brent has to remind
him that they aren't on Earth... that they aren't in the 20th Century
either. He tells him they've got plenty of food and water, that the
air is breathable... that they're lucky to be alive.

How do you cheer up a dying man who had already lost his wife and
kids BEFORE the Orion Mission set out, and who has lost everything
else there IS to lose except his very LIFE -- a life which he is
about to lose, to boot?

It sucks to be Brent, man.

I agree, Neil, that this whole faking-their-deaths bit is
problematic. But the details given in "ESCAPE" have to be dealt with.
The Newscaster reports that the 2 ships had been thought (by the
Public) to have "disintegrated in orbit"... despite the fact that the
President had been told they were merely "missing in space". ANSA
knows the truth, and NEITHER story is true. The ships
weren't "missing" -- ANSA knew exactly where they should be, given
the missions' parameters. But they didn't want this newly-elected
President to know the Truth... so he was merely told that they
were "missing". And the Public had been given a press-release,
telling them that they probably had burned up during re-
entry, "disintegrated in orbit". A cover story. And the astronauts
who had volunteered to go on those mission had to have signed off on
this disinformation plan, knowing that if they were leaving anybody
behind on Earth, they'd mourn deaths that hadn't really happened.

I agree, it's problematic. But it covers the 'facts', the details
given on-screen. And, it makes for some drama, or at least melodrama.
My modus operandi is to let the on-screen details dictate the kind of
story that I'm allowed to concoct within the POTA universe. I can't
just wish these aggravating details away. In a way, it's like trying
to solve a very difficult mathematical equation, solving for "x". Or,
it's like Spock trying to make a gizmo to access his Tricorder
in "The City on the Edge of Forever"... using stone knives and bear
skins.

Patrick
------------------------------------------------------------------

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil T Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- I can't see this myself. If this was the case would the families
of the astronauts be in on the secret or were they also lied to by
the government? If they weren't it would be highly probable that one
of them would eventually let something slip. And what about the
crews? Were they told that they could never return to Earth as they
had been reported as dead and if so would they still agree to go on
such a mission?
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of patrickmichaeltilton
> Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 6:41 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Who's in charge?
>
>
>
> I've mentioned before that these seemingly conflicting statements
can make sense if we deduce that ANSA somehow FAKED the deaths of
those crews, perhaps timing the jettisoning of their booster rockets
so that those boosters burned up in the atmosphere... so that Mission
Control could pretend that the spaceships had "disintegrated in
orbit", to keep the public (and NASA) from knowing that those ships
were capable of zooming away from the Earth at "nearly the speed of
light".
>
> Virdon's ship fled Low Earth Orbit -- bang-zoom -- zipping at near-
light velocity towards Alpha Centauri, and its booster burned up in
the atmosphere, serving to fool the trackers (and the public) into
believing that Virdon's ship was destroyed, its crew killed.

Hmmm... TOXIC waste, NUCLEAR waste, and a heck of a
LOT of it, true, could do a lot of damage. But how
much of it would have to pollute the environment to
destroy ALL of human civilization?

By the time Taylor sees the Statue, he finally
realizes that Man "did it"... did WHAT? "You BLEW IT
UP!" he cries. All the answers Taylor had been looking
for, he's found... including Why it is that Zaius was
so afraid of Taylor, why he HATES him. Because he's a
Man. An intelligent, TALKING man. And Zaius believes
that "the evidence" shows that Man "must be a WARLIKE
creature, giving battle to everything around him, EVEN
HIMSELF!"

Zaius had "always known about Man" -- he knew things
that most Apes didn't know. Not only that Man had once
had a civilization that was 'superior' to theirs, but
that they had self-destructed. Zaius, in full
agreement with the Human-damning sentiments of the
Lawgiver, has judged an entire species based on their
acts -- the Nuke War -- which make Man DESERVING of
such a harsh judgment. Taylor HIMSELF, at the end,
agrees with Zaius' judgment, since he calls upon God
to "damn [Man] all to Hell".

As reprehensible as man-made pollution and
deforestation are, it wouldn't destroy Man's
civilization utterly. There would still be ruins in
the unlivable "forbidden zones" of the world, but they
wouldn't be as utterly devastated as what we see in
that lifeless desert -- a desert which once was the
New York City region. Taylor's 3-day journey across
that desert, unbeknownst to him, was across a stretch
of real estate which once had streets and houses and
buildings -- it had been an urban area target for
destruction by a nation inimicable to the U.S.A., a
nation with nuclear weapons at their disposal.

2,000-year-old ruins are visible in Rome. Ruins far
older (from ancient Egypt) are still visible. Yet some
2,000 years after the destruction of Man's
civilization there ain't one thing between Taylor's
raft and the Cornfield that gives away the fact that
they're traversing a stretch of territory which once
was an urbanized American metropolitan area. Mere
pollution wouldn't do THAT. But a cluster of
multi-megaton nukes hitting NYC one after the other
after the other would blow the shit out of it. Imagine
Hiroshima hit by a 2nd nuke... then a 3rd, and a 4th.
After the 2nd nuke, would there be anything left to
blow apart or melt in that heat?

Patrick


--- "Anthony B. McElveen" <abmac@...> wrote:

> Pollution combined with deforestation will also turn

an area into a poisonous desert, and they're much more
likely to be tolerated until it's too late.
Radioactivity is never mentioned in Planet.

>

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 8:38 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] POTA Begins

Feels wobbly doesn’t it?

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 10:49 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Re: blueprinting...

You HAVE been busy!

Please share when you are done!

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 10:47 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: POTA Begins - WHAT Nuclear War

Now – as for the nuclear war and PLANET – in PLANET it is STRONGLY suggested there was a nuclear war.  However I don’t think anyone comes right out and says it.  Yes humanity handed earth over to the apes, but nothing SPECIFICALLY states it was the NUCLEAR bogey-man.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Thursday, 26 October 2006 8:43 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: [PotaDG] POTA Begins

Or you could just change the text – for a change!  J

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Anthony B. McElveen
Sent: Friday, 27 October 2006 2:47 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] POTA Begins (page 3)

But he was when this page was originally posted. :)

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Plonowski
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 10:56 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com; potadg@yahoogroups.com; friends & fugitives
Subject: [PotaDG] Marvel UK issue 106

It's the penultimate chapter of Quest for the Planet of the Apes, now available to download in issue 106 on Hunter's site. The issue also contains another chapter in the Planet adaptation. This chapter includes a scene cut from the final film.

 

Come back next week for the stunning conclusion of Quest.

 

https://pota. goatley.com

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Friday, 27 October 2006 7:13 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: POTA Begins - WHAT Nuclear War

Yeah that’s what I was saying.  I assume PLANET is SUGGESTING there was a nuke war – but it is NEVER stated.

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Wednesday, 25 October 2006 3:39 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Saga Magazine?

it seems to me that Dario was the one who had all that "logged" as to what magazine had the abridged version of MONKEY PLANET... It seems whatever magazine it was also had drawings to accompany it?

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Friday, 27 October 2006 4:00 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Faking their deaths...

I agree, it's problematic. But it covers the 'facts', the details
given on-screen. And, it makes for some drama, or at least melodrama.
My modus operandi is to let the on-screen details dictate the kind of
story that I'm allowed to concoct within the POTA universe. I can't
just wish these aggravating details away. In a way, it's like trying
to solve a very difficult mathematical equation, solving for "x". Or,
it's like Spock trying to make a gizmo to access his Tricorder
in "The City on the Edge of Forever"... using stone knives and bear
skins.

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Friday, 27 October 2006 7:31 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: {Disarmed} RE: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] POTA Begins (page 3)

There also would have had to have been a nifty air-lock in the hovercraft to keep out whatever he had the suit on to protect himself from!

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hill
Sent: Friday, 27 October 2006 2:56 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: New comic.

Give me awhile and I'll catch up and get back with some thing more substantial.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Friday, 27 October 2006 1:31 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: POTA Rarities Disc

Yeah, it sure is. I sent Hunter an email about it. Just waiting to
hear if he wants to include it or not and how to get it to him.

.

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In a message dated 10/26/2006 2:05:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

This, really, IS the biggest 'pain' I've had to deal with, trying to
re-interpret Dehn's mistakes. It's bad enough that he imagined the
Brent/Skipper mission to "rescue" Taylor -- presumably sent out from
planet Earth to follow him across 320 lightyears of space and all
that. And then he goes and gives Skipper dialogue about his "wife"
and his "two daughters" being "dead... everyone I ever knew..." ...
as if he didn't expect the EARTH-TIME clock to mysteriously click
ahead to the year 3955 when he left Earth to "rescue" an astronaut.

*************************

Ahhh, but here is a possibility that you have not explored.. What if there was a predetermined "way back" from the onset of the ANSA missions?  Perhaps the Taylor & Brent's ships had the capability to travel back and forth in time built into them. 

 

This would explain a lot. Perhaps Taylor's real mission was to gather facts on Earth's future. Remember, he did not have time to fully check the tapes when he splashed down in Dead Lake. These tapes would have revealed his secret mission ... gather facts about Earth's future and report back. "Skipper" was informed of the details before his launch (as it was a rescue mission), but never had the chance to tell Brent. This would explain Skipper's grief about not seeing his family ever again.

 

Dr Milo had no real concept of aeronautics or space travel. The apes did not even have electricity or indoor plumbing. I would surmise that all Milo had to do was hit a big red button marked "Return" and let the ship fly itself home -- to 1973 Earth.

 

Sometime before Taylor's launch, an ultra-secret branch of the US government discovered clues from the future as to the fate of mankind. They were obligated to send scouts into the future and report back information with the intentions of trying to prevent this fate. The irony, or course, is that these missions actually not only heralded the fall of mankind and the rise of the apes, but also the destruction of the Earth.

Bill

 

 

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In a message dated 10/26/2006 1:10:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, abmac@... writes:

Pollution combined with deforestation will also turn an area into a poisonous desert, and they're much more likely to be tolerated until it's too late. Radioactivity is never mentioned in Planet.

The nuclear war and its aftermath are the crux of the entire POTA series. The irony is that mankind caused its own destruction...this is foreshadowed by Zauis and realized in the film's final scene.

 

To suggest that it was a natural disaster, such as a comet or meteor takes the meat out of the entire story -- to do that would make mankind an innocent bystander to the destruction rather than the "harbinger of death" as intended...

Bill

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In a message dated 10/26/2006 4:54:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- Damn Anthony you were meant to forget about that! :-)

 

But yes you are correct, when we originally shared this page he didn't have the helmet thing on when he was inside the hovercraft, however as soon as he went out into the environment he did wear it.

It was my decision to change that as I wanted to keep the identity and species of the character more mysterious until later in the story.

 

So please wipe from your memories those earlier versions of the pages folks. ;-)

 

Neil

These pages look great!  I can't wait until the next installment.

Have you considered coloring them?

Bill

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.html In a message dated 10/26/2006 12:10:48 PM Central Standard Time, abmac@... writes:

Pollution combined with deforestation will also turn an area into a poisonous desert, and they're much more likely to be tolerated until it's too late. Radioactivity is never mentioned in Planet.

*** Very good point(s)....***<.html

.html In a message dated 10/26/2006 12:14:16 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

PS I don't hunt kangaroos anymore!

*** What did you do with the kangaroo(s) you shot? Seriously, is there a market for kangaroo carcasses down there?<.html

.html In a message dated 10/26/2006 8:14:09 PM Central Standard Time, atragon1@... writes:

Sometime before Taylor's launch, an ultra-secret branch of the US government discovered clues from the future as to the fate of mankind. They were obligated to send scouts into the future and report back information with the intentions of trying to prevent this fate. The irony, or course, is that these missions actually not only heralded the fall of mankind and the rise of the apes, but also the destruction of the Earth.

*** Exactly where or how would they have found out anything about the future? What are you saying anyway, that "they" sent secret ships into the future even before they sent Taylor up?

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.html In a message dated 10/26/2006 8:34:46 PM Central Standard Time, ntfoster@... writes:

Okay this is the first I have ever heard or seen of these, released in 1999 so the seller reckons!:


*** These are 100% bootleg/fraudulent items...***<.html

.html In a message dated 10/26/2006 8:35:45 PM Central Standard Time, atragon1@... writes:

To suggest that it was a natural disaster, such as a comet or meteor takes the meat out of the entire story -- to do that would make mankind an innocent

*** Anthony never suggested that it was a natural disaster... He suggested pollution and deforestation were only possible causes... And deforestation and pollution are man made "disasters" so he'd still be the harbinger of death...

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In a message dated 10/26/2006 10:32:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

*** Anthony never suggested that it was a natural disaster... He suggested pollution and deforestation were only possible causes... And deforestation and pollution are man made "disasters" so he'd still be the harbinger of death...

Hmm. I wonder if the Sacred Scrolls mention anything about "global warming"?

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In a message dated 10/26/2006 10:37:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Sometime before Taylor's launch, an ultra-secret branch of the US government discovered clues from the future as to the fate of mankind. They were obligated to send scouts into the future and report back information with the intentions of trying to prevent this fate. The irony, or course, is that these missions actually not only heralded the fall of mankind and the rise of the apes, but also the destruction of the Earth.

*** Exactly where or how would they have found out anything about the future? What are you saying anyway, that "they" sent secret ships into the future even before they sent Taylor up?

Possibly, as a means of initially applying Hasslien's theory -- unmanned satellites were sent into the future, gathered sketchy information about Earth's fate and successfully returned that data to the present.  The information brought back was shocking enough for the government to develop a planned series of  manned missions into the future to gather and bring back more intelligence.

Bill

 

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.html In a message dated 10/26/2006 10:15:32 PM Central Standard Time, atragon1@... writes:

Hmm. I wonder if the Sacred Scrolls mention anything about "global warming"?

*** Probably not... The Forbidden Zone was a hot mother already...
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