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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Wednesday, 27 December 2006 12:16 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Glyph Shirts

If I have more than one of the Dr Zaius shirts, I'd be glad to share
but judging by the photo it looks like a lot of Corn. / Ursus shirts.

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Saturday, 30 December 2006 3:13 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] PLANET OF THE APES 15th Anniversary of APE CHRONICLES

*** I agree... AC would benefit from colorization. .. It would look more like a contemporary fanzine,

.

___._,___

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Saturday, 30 December 2006 3:24 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: [POTA] winston test

Jeffery, Jeffery, Jeffery...

I hope you realize that cross posting like that (with a post from the pota group that is) is usually grounds for the keeper over there to ban or heavily moderate you... It happpened to me, Whitty I believe, and someone else... Either way, good luck with your probation...

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of atragon1@...
Sent: Saturday, 30 December 2006 3:43 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Cameron's POTA

Was there ever a script developed for this project? I believe Arnold was supposed to be in the Taylor role. How far did this project go before it permanently floundered?

 

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I have the script that you are talking about and I think it was written for Arnold. 

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Of course. I still haven't got the shipment in but out of 17 T-
shirts, I'm sure I'll be able to hook some people outside of my
favorite and most willing strippers up! Muhahahahahaha!!! I'll post
what I have and see who wants what.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil T Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- So does this mean you will be offering any spares for sale to
your
> good friends on the group?
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of John
> Sent: Wednesday, 27 December 2006 12:16 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Glyph Shirts
>
>
>
> If I have more than one of the Dr Zaius shirts, I'd be glad to
share
> but judging by the photo it looks like a lot of Corn. / Ursus
shirts.
>
>
> .
>
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?
s=97359714/grpId=8605785/grpspId=1705021437/m
> sgId=42533/stime=1167185829/nc1=3858795/nc2=3848619/nc3=4299902>
>

.html In a message dated 12/29/2006 5:02:38 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I'd need as much help as Terry and it is HIS magazine, so I would never dream of it.

I still think we should all rally around and help him.


*** Well, okay let's do it this way...

Hoknes can steer the ship, but you help navigate...<.html

.html*** Whitty,

I never said nobody here should not help Terry and AC... I'm all for that, and with the right articles, people contributing, so on and so forth, it could be a good publication...

However, I stated my views, Terry gave his opinion, and I think we both gave different views and people can take whatever they want from both of them and decide for themselves... I really can't say I will be purchasing anymore issues in the future, but to those who do, more power to them... If by chance it would do a complete turnaround and become what SIMIAN SCROLLS is, in terms of design, articles, etc. then maybe I would give it another look, so I don't totally rule anything out...

I agree with you in the sense that yes all APES fans should rally together for a common cause... But, I really don't see it ever totally happening... There are too many different points of view and that alone will cause in fighting... There are the film fundamentalists... Then there are those who like the films AND the TV series, and the TV series is hated by the film crowd... Then there are some who might only love RETURN and they are spat upon... And then there are those who love anything with a talking ape in it, and the pota2001 dislikers will definitely be at odds with them! It's an endless cycle...

And, face it, even in ST and SW there are different factions, so why should APES be any different?


In a message dated 12/29/2006 4:57:58 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Cougar – the reason I think we should all get together on AC and help Terry is to prove people CAN do this and you don't have to split the community and wage war.  I've always wanted all POTA fans to exist in peace, and why not? – it's the whole idea of POTA that we all need to set aside differences and work together or we'll just end up competing and destroying until there is NOTHING left.

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.html In a message dated 12/29/2006 3:48:08 AM Central Standard Time, hoknescards@... writes:

Because of your thoughts I have realized it would be best in the future that I should just sell new issues one issue at a time and not "memberships".

*** See, now this is a great idea... I really wish you had been doing that all along, it certainly would not have caused as much resentment on my part... I'm all for that: Sell them as they come into being. You have the issue ready, the people send their funds and they get the AC right away... That really is a good foot forward, and I may even keep such things in mind should I ever decide to give AC  a second chance... I hope you really do conduct AC business as stated here, it will cause a lot less stress/headaches all around...

if you dont like the contents though that is totally up to you to be critical.   All I can say is I wish more people would contribute and that would make it a better overall fanzine.

*** You do have a point here... Contributions would help AC out... Maybe you could even get Jeff to conduct some sort of interviews with Natalie or Booth, etc.? That would be a start anyway...

In terms of content my overly thorough breakdown of episodes is my favorite thing.  And yes it might get ridiculous at times but I will NOT stop doing that.   If a chicken crosses the road I am gonna mention it - everybody has analyzed Star Wars and Star Trek to death and I'm trying to do my part with POTA.

*** I'm for analyzing APES to an extent, but even though it has been done so much with ST and SW, that really doesn't mean that it "has to be done" with APES does it?... While I do like hearing other view points on APES, I think it's gonna be pretty much open to interpretation no matter how you slice it...

And as far as your episode breakdowns, that idea is ok if that's all it is, but that list you compiled (with the cow, etc.) was way too overboard... To me that wasn't analyzing anything, it was just overkill... Truthfully I was surprised I didn't see something like this: "U: the letter Urko's name starts with"...

Nobody supported me and I had to clear out a ton of stuff at bargain bin prices to get rid of it.   

*** I really don't think it was a case of people backing you or not... It was the movie they didn't like, so naturally they won't buy products from a film they despise! You can't fault anyone there, except maybe your own blind faith that people would be knocking down your door to buy that stuff!

 But anyways I look forward to more criticisms but since I am the editor I put together things that I think should be saved in print.  Many items that are neat on the internet disappear after a time so I try to keep them saved forever.

*** Again, I'm all for this... Things of true interest/importance should be saved, but in twenty years, do you really think someone will want to look at an old issue of AC and see what sold for 1c on eBay in July of '04? I don't...

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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> I think I'm happy to offer to help and I hop enough others will do the same.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
> 
Already Sent Terry an E-mail

Best Wishes Graham.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Saturday, 30 December 2006 2:47 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] PLANET OF THE APES 15th Anniversary of APE CHRONICLES

I think I’m happy to offer to help and I hop enough others will do the same.

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@aol. com
Sent: Saturday, 30 December 2006 2:22 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] PLANET OF THE APES 15th Anniversary of APE CHRONICLES

 

In a message dated 12/29/2006 5:02:38 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@cyberone. com.au writes:

I’d need as much help as Terry and it is HIS magazine, so I would never dream of it.

I still think we should all rally around and help him.

 

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anyone know anything about this?

http://cgi.ebay.com/BRIAN-INGLAND-LATE-60S-PLANET-OF-THE-APES-45_W0QQitemZ320064998548QQihZ011QQcategoryZ306QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


Tim

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  A whole issue on what fans have produced would  be great, very much in keeping  with the fact that it's an anniversary issue.

A little article on fan fiction, comics as you say, Coverage of Scrolls,All of Greg's cards !!!  there's so much, all linked back to the  sources they've come from so every one feels involved. It'd be great to pull the community together.

Best wishes Graham

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> You could do a whole issue on stuff the fans have done - eg Greg's Trading
> Cards, Graham's Trading Cards, the Power Records, AC, SS....there's a huge
> list!
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Neil T Foster
> Sent: Sunday, 31 December 2006 11:41 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] PLANET OF THE APES 15th Anniversary of APE CHRONICLES
>
>
>
> -- How about an article on fan produced comics?
>
>
>
> Neil
>
>

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Cougar said: "I like these APES heads you're designing... But, I have to say, Urko is not a general! He is Chief of Security... He's law-enforcement not military..."

Then Michael said: " Yeah – was he ever referred to as GENERAL? I must say – I have made this mistake myself."

Then Cougar said: "The only time he was ever referred to as GENERAL was in the POWER Records stories, and, weirdly, in the TV series novels... (and oddly enough, in the TV series novels, Councilor Zaius is incorrectly referred to as Dr. Zaius too...)

And Neil chimed in with: "I think it was probably just sloppiness and a recognition thing that was carried over from general Ursus, as they did both have virtually the same costumes.

And just because Urko is not named as a General in the TV show doesn't have to mean that isn't a rank he has. Maybe the glyphs on his helmet or collar denote the rank of general?"

=========================================

My take on it goes something like this...

In "BENEATH " Ursus is referred to as "General" by Zaius during the steamroom scene because he is the "supreme commander" of the Apes' "great army" (as the Minister refers to them). 

In "BATTLE " Aldo insists on being referred to by his "proper rank" of "General"... and he, too, is the leader of the Apes' army. This is never contested by Caesar, so it's evident that Aldo is not arrogating to himself a rank that is not recognized by the community-at-large. He really is the General of the Army of the Apes... and King Caesar has forbidden them to carry Arms (the weapons kept in Mandemus' Armory). Hmmm... strange... an Army with no Arm aments, excepting those short-swords.

In both "BENEATH" and "BATTLE " the respective Ape community is not insular: rather, they both are adjacent to neighboring territories which are believed to be inhabited by potential enemies. There was no evidence of this, of course, in "PLANET" -- but, then again, there was no sign of General Ursus in that film, either.

It was only after the disappearance of the gorilla scouts and the strange reports received by the only one of the twelve to return that the push towards war began. These reports were proof enough that the Forbidden Zone was indeed inhabited by unknown enemies (I say "enemies" because of the infliction of "unsimian torture" on that lone scout).

Once this foreign threat reared its head, then and only then did the Ape community marshall its martial energies, and General Ursus appeared on-stage.

In "BATTLE " Aldo seems to have been keeping perpetual watch on the border approaches to Ape City (the Trio of Caesar, Virgil, and MacDonald has to sneak past them going out of town and is jumped by Aldo's security forces whilst returning back into town). It was known that the Forbidden City may be inhabited, even before Caesar learned of the Tapes and planned his journey; therefore, Aldo and his gorilla security forces had been maintaining an on-going patrol of their borders -- well before Caesar's journey to the Forbidden City had proven that that place was indeed inhabited by "hostile" humans.

Thus... in both "BENEATH" and "BATTLE " the Ape society in question has a potential outside enemy to beware of and to deal with -- militarily -- and that necessitates the existence of a standing Army (and, to lead that army, a Supreme Commander, a General).

But in the TV show, there never was shown any nearby enemy force, known or unknown, with which the Ape Civilization ruled by the High Council in Central City ever had to deal. The "known world" of the Apes (and enslaved Humans) was under the total dominance of the Apes. There were ruined cities from ancient times (our time, that is...), but there seems to have been no presence of lurking subterranean mutant-and-hostile humans to necessitate the use of an actual Army.

The only real threat that the Ape Civilization of 3085 seems to face is that of a Slave Revolt. Thus, they have a well-armed hierarchy of gorilla military forces doing "homeland security" duty.

Urko is referred to on-screen -- as Cougar rightly states -- only as "Chief of Security" and never as "General Urko". True. Yet this is, it seems to me, mostly a matter of semantics. The simian State deems the enslaved Human population to be an Enemy in the Apes' midst. It is the ever-present threat of armed suppression that keeps the miserable humans from fomenting insurrection. The only real example of an attempt by humans to wage war against their simian oppressors is in "The Liberator " -- and that foiled attempt to wage war would have involved Arms in the form of Chemical Weapons, the ones Brun was cooking up in his Temple lair.

Since the simian civilization in 3085 has (as far as it knows) only domestic "enemies" to be concerned about, it is right and proper for the commander of the "homeland security" forces to be referred to as their "Chief of Security".

But if a band of gun-wielding human cowboy-types were to invade the Ape-dominated region centered on Central City (perhaps from Texas), then the High Council would obviously need to deal with this new foreign threat... and they would then have to use at least some (if not most) of their gorilla security forces as an actual Army... and that army would need to be commanded by a General.

I submit that Urko, in the TV series, is a "general" in every sense of the word, if not the possessor necessarily of that Title. But he's not referred to as "General" only because, at that time, there was no foreign threat to deal with. No invading armies of mutants (like the rag-tag force led by Governor Kolp, when he attacked Caesar's city) or of other humans from unexplored regions... or, for that matter, other groups of Apes unallied to the civilization dominated by the High Council.

All of Urko's foes -- during the 14 episode run of the show -- were domestic enemies, not foreign. That is, it was a police matter rather than a military matter. The Apes used their armed forces as police to keep the enslaved humans subservient. They did not use them as an army to quell a slave revolt or to repress an invasion from foreign territories.

If there had been a slave revolt or an invasion from some neighboring region, then in all probability a good percentage of the gorilla security forces would be mustered to serve as an Army, and Chief of Security Urko would be given the command of that Army... and then he would be referred to as General Urko.

I have no real problem with calling Urko a "General" even though he's consistently called "Chief of Security" in the series. In a way, Urko probably thinks that there is a foreign-based threat to deal with: not an invading enemy Army , but a smaller vanguard force represented by the Astronauts, whom he considers to be fomenters of discord amongst the servant population. Urko harps on this when talking with Zaius, referring to the Astronauts (and/or their Ideas) as an "infection" which must be wiped out.

From the first moment we see Urko, he has his circular, studded poncho on his upper torso, with the glyph on it. We had previously seen that worn by both Ursus and by Aldo -- both of whom were (or, in Ursus' case, would be) referred to as General of the Ape Army. Urko, too, has that helmet in his possession, a helmet which is only seen (later, chronologically) being worn by General Ursus.

I think that that poncho and helmet are Regalia of sorts. Not for any monarchical reason (as a Crown and Sceptre would be), but for a military reason. I think that those items of clothing denote the rank of General. I think that Urko wore that poncho and brought that helmet with him to Zaius' office in order to broadcast the message that a foreign-based threat is at-hand, and that it requires a military solution: with General Urko leading that military force.

But wait... (I can hear some of you saying)... That would mean that Urko knew in advance what was in that message from Prefect Veska to Chief Councillor Zaius.

I think that this is likely.

Veska sent a gorilla to Central City with a message for Zaius. That gorilla messenger rode as fast as he could from the vicinity of Chalo (and the landing site) to Central City. I think that he either went first to Urko and then to Zaius -- denoting his loyalty to the Top Gorilla, giving Urko a Heads-Up on this security matter -- or else another of Veska's gorillas sent a "light signal" via one of those Heliograph signalling devices to Urko... so that Urko knew ahead of time that another ship had landed, and that two "superior" humans were on-the-loose. Those two humans obviously had to have arrived in the Ape-dominated region from somewhere outside of it.

A foreign threat if ever there was one. The vanguard forces... the tip of the spear... the insertion of a Fifth Column force to rally the enslaved humans who are all burning with resentment...

I think that Urko deems himself to be a General, facing a foreign threat. So, to broadcast that politically-charged belief, he wears the studded/glyphed Poncho and the glyphed Helmet, the uniform of the General.

But Zaius doesn't want the Ape society's government to be dominated by the military. Rather than allow Urko to seize power (using the arrival of the Astronauts as the "incident" he needs to justify a military coup, the way Ursus would use the "incident" involving the 12 scouts in "BENEATH"), Zaius goes out of his way to refer to Urko as the "Chief of Security". In other words, Zaius uses semantics as a way to remind Urko that officially this matter of the Astronauts is a matter of domestic security, a police matter, and not a military threat requiring the mustering of a full-fledged Army (and the concomitant invoking of Martial Law).

Urko wants there to be Martial Law... he wants more power... he wants to be a full-fledged General of the Army... but most of the people (i.e . the Apes, the "people" with any say in the matter of their own governance) don't want Urko to be in charge of the entire government. In "The Cure" Urko almost makes a bid for the position of ultimate power... he draws his gun, even, in a none-too-veiled threat to seize power from Zaius and the rest of the High Council... but without sufficient support for his cause, he knows he dares not attempt it, lest he lose the official power he does wield -- as "Chief of Security".

So... I think it is important to ponder the meaning of the titles and ranks implied by "Chief of Security" and "General"... I think it adds an extra dimension to the power-politics going on in the midst of the "domestic" crisis faced by Apedom. Urko wants it to be a matter of Foreign Policy -- so that he can be General, ruling all of Apedom under Martial Law -- rather than a police matter, where he is still under the supervision of the rest of the High Council, whose Chief Councillor (Zaius) doesn't trust him...

How galling it must have been for Urko to have Galen along on that trip to Chalo... a paper-pushing chimpanzee assistant who, being sent by Zaius himself as his representative, acts with a higher authority than Urko! It's no wonder that Urko was willing to destroy Galen with false charges of Murder, Treason, and Heresy later on. He could make a prima facie case for those charges, at any rate. And he was willing to do it, I think, in part to get back at Zaius... to use the Book as a weapon against Zaius' once-representative -- and against Zaius, obliquely. And there was nothing Zaius could do about it. A gorilla was dead, and the evidence could be interpreted as an act of Murder -- an Ape killed by another Ape, a Chimpanzee "human sympathizer" murdering a brave Gorilla soldier whilst helping two dangerous humans to escape custody. Think of the propaganda value of this, that Urko could use against his 'enemies' on the High Council, using public opinion to sway them against Zaius and towards his own militant views.

Chief of Security Urko wants to be General Urko. He has the uniform -- which, perhaps, he isn't really supposed to don unless and until the High Council declares a military state-of-emergency and invests him with the position of Supreme Commander of the Ape Army. But he puts it on anyway... to signal his politically-charged attempt to change Ape society into a Police State... where even the Apes have to worry about their own military forces ruling them, "policing" them.

The Apes living in 3085 are on that slippery slope that leads to the power-grab by the Military... and the danger of the abuse of that power. We living in a post-9/11 world have more than a little in common with that scenario, what with covert domestic wire-tapping by Homeland Security, etc etc etc...

Patrick

 

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:

>
> Michael Baldwin wasn't a "Bruce"!
>
> You feeling better yet Patrick?
>
> Michael

-------------------------------------------------

*** Yeah. Not 100%, but better than last week. I still have an
occasional annoying cough (or, what's worse, the urge-to-cough), but
my "plumbing" (ahem) is working more like it should. I am not a big
fan of the urge-to-chunder, nor do I dig havin' the dreaded "hershe
squirts". Oy vey! Or, should that be "Uff Da!" -- since I'm in Fargo,
North Dakota?! Yah, y'betcha!

I think I'd just gotten so damned sick of Xmas in general that it got
me literally sick with the Flu or a Cold or whatever the **** it was
that was goin' round. Now that 2006 is almost over, I'm feeling a
whole lot better! I'll feel a whole lot better when Bush Jr. and his
Neo-Con gang of incompetents are outta the White House. Just 2 more
years of this shit to go...

Patrick

P.S. Who the heck is Michael Baldwin? Is he one of the Baldwin
brothers -- the one you rarely hear about, like Zeppo was to his
better-known Marx Bros., Moe-Larry-Curly?

Thanks for askin' about my under-the-weather condition, Mike. Lots of
Nyquil-induced sleep helps a bunch. I watched a marathon of "ROBOT
CHICKEN" episodes from Adult Swim on the Cartoon Network. And
some "VENTURE BROTHERS" episodes on Tivo. Laughter really IS the best
medicine, I think! I haven't laughed so hard since that "SOUTH PARK"
episode where Butters watches a porno (having been led to believe
that it was "The Fellowship of the Ring") and then turns into a
Gollum-like porn-addict seeking his "precious" when his friends (out
on a "quest" to retrieve that tape) take it away from him. Ye gods,
but that was one of the funniest things I've ever seen.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> It has been for the last hour and 18 minutes......!!!!!
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
Still new years eve here, another 4 and a half to go but I've still got a half bottle of southern comfort to go !!!

Happy new year

Best, Graham.

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I believe Urko was officially promoted to a general in the RETURN animated series.

I would guess that your theory is on target for all variant ape societies -- a general only exists when there is a need to mobilize the army against a realized external threat.

 

In BENEATH, granted that Zaius knew full well of the potential external threats to the NY Ape City, there was no need to grant Ursus that title until the council declared that there was a proven external threat.

 

Since the time of Caesar, the potential for the gorillas to seize power was a constant threat to Ape society.

After Aldo's attempted takeover, a series of laws were passed by the Lawgiver and the councils over the generations to limit the power of the army and its commander. The General of the Army could only serve at the pleasure of the Council -- this would allow the Council to remove the general's powers once the threat had either vanished or diminished. Perhaps the General of the Army has special emergency powers if, say, Ape City was under a direct attack. This could explain Ursus' zeal in combining the domestic threat of the famine with the questionable testimonial evidence of a couple of soldiers. By turning a domestic problem into an external problem, he could mobilize his army and have his war -- with the majority of public support behind him (except for those peace-nik chimps!)

 

One wonders what would have happened if Ursus had defeated the mutants. Would he have marched back to Ape City and his emergency powers indefinitely extended? Would he have marched on the city and taken over by force, or would he have relinquished his power back to Zaius and the council?

Bill

 

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 12/31/2006 1:10:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

============ ========= ========= ========= ==

My take on it goes something like this...

In "BENEATH" Ursus is referred to as "General" by Zaius during the steamroom scene because he is the "supreme commander" of the Apes' "great army" (as the Minister refers to them). 

In "BATTLE" Aldo insists on being referred to by his "proper rank" of "General"... and he, too, is the leader of the Apes' army. This is never contested by Caesar, so it's evident that Aldo is not arrogating to himself a rank that is not recognized by the community-at- large. He really is the General of the Army of the Apes... and King Caesar has forbidden them to carry Arms (the weapons kept in Mandemus' Armory). Hmmm... strange... an Army with no Armaments, excepting those short-swords.

In both "BENEATH" and "BATTLE" the respective Ape community is not insular: rather, they both are adjacent to neighboring territories which are believed to be inhabited by potential enemies. There was no evidence of this, of course, in "PLANET" -- but, then again, there was no sign of General Ursus in that film, either.

It was only after the disappearance of the gorilla scouts and the strange reports received by the only one of the twelve to return that the push towards war began. These reports were proof enough that the Forbidden Zone was indeed inhabited by unknown enemies (I say "enemies" because of the infliction of "unsimian torture" on that lone scout).

Once this foreign threat reared its head, then and only then did the Ape community marshall its martial energies, and General Ursus appeared on-stage.

In "BATTLE" Aldo seems to have been keeping perpetual watch on the border approaches to Ape City (the Trio of Caesar, Virgil, and MacDonald has to sneak past them going out of town and is jumped by Aldo's security forces whilst returning back into town). It was known that the Forbidden City may be inhabited, even before Caesar learned of the Tapes and planned his journey; therefore, Aldo and his gorilla security forces had been maintaining an on-going patrol of their borders -- well before Caesar's journey to the Forbidden City had proven that that place was indeed inhabited by "hostile" humans.

Thus... in both "BENEATH" and "BATTLE" the Ape society in question has a potential outside enemy to beware of and to deal with -- militarily -- and that necessitates the existence of a standing Army (and, to lead that army, a Supreme Commander, a General).

But in the TV show, there never was shown any nearby enemy force, known or unknown, with which the Ape Civilization ruled by the High Council in Central City ever had to deal. The "known world" of the Apes (and enslaved Humans) was under the total dominance of the Apes. There were ruined cities from ancient times (our time, that is...), but there seems to have been no presence of lurking subterranean mutant-and-hostile humans to necessitate the use of an actual Army.

The only real threat that the Ape Civilization of 3085 seems to face is that of a Slave Revolt. Thus, they have a well-armed hierarchy of gorilla military forces doing "homeland security" duty.

Urko is referred to on-screen -- as Cougar rightly states -- only as "Chief of Security" and never as "General Urko". True. Yet this is, it seems to me, mostly a matter of semantics. The simian State deems the enslaved Human population to be an Enemy in the Apes' midst. It is the ever-present threat of armed suppression that keeps the miserable humans from fomenting insurrection. The only real example of an attempt by humans to wage war against their simian oppressors is in "The Liberator" -- and that foiled attempt to wage war would have involved Arms in the form of Chemical Weapons, the ones Brun was cooking up in his Temple lair.

Since the simian civilization in 3085 has (as far as it knows) only domestic "enemies" to be concerned about, it is right and proper for the commander of the "homeland security" forces to be referred to as their "Chief of Security".

But if a band of gun-wielding human cowboy-types were to invade the Ape-dominated region centered on Central City (perhaps from Texas), then the High Council would obviously need to deal with this new foreign threat... and they would then have to use at least some (if not most) of their gorilla security forces as an actual Army... and that army would need to be commanded by a General.

I submit that Urko, in the TV series, is a "general" in every sense of the word, if not the possessor necessarily of that Title. But he's not referred to as "General" only because, at that time, there was no foreign threat to deal with. No invading armies of mutants (like the rag-tag force led by Governor Kolp, when he attacked Caesar's city) or of other humans from unexplored regions... or, for that matter, other groups of Apes unallied to the civilization dominated by the High Council.

All of Urko's foes -- during the 14 episode run of the show -- were domestic enemies, not foreign. That is, it was a police matter rather than a military matter. The Apes used their armed forces as police to keep the enslaved humans subservient. They did not use them as an army to quell a slave revolt or to repress an invasion from foreign territories.

If there had been a slave revolt or an invasion from some neighboring region, then in all probability a good percentage of the gorilla security forces would be mustered to serve as an Army, and Chief of Security Urko would be given the command of that Army... and then he would be referred to as General Urko.

I have no real problem with calling Urko a "General" even though he's consistently called "Chief of Security" in the series. In a way, Urko probably thinks that there is a foreign-based threat to deal with: not an invading enemy Army, but a smaller vanguard force represented by the Astronauts, whom he considers to be fomenters of discord amongst the servant population. Urko harps on this when talking with Zaius, referring to the Astronauts (and/or their Ideas) as an "infection" which must be wiped out.

From the first moment we see Urko, he has his circular, studded poncho on his upper torso, with the glyph on it. We had previously seen that worn by both Ursus and by Aldo -- both of whom were (or, in Ursus' case, would be) referred to as General of the Ape Army. Urko, too, has that helmet in his possession, a helmet which is only seen (later, chronologically) being worn by General Ursus.

I think that that poncho and helmet are Regalia of sorts. Not for any monarchical reason (as a Crown and Sceptre would be), but for a military reason. I think that those items of clothing denote the rank of General. I think that Urko wore that poncho and brought that helmet with him to Zaius' office in order to broadcast the message that a foreign-based threat is at-hand, and that it requires a military solution: with General Urko leading that military force.

But wait... (I can hear some of you saying)... That would mean that Urko knew in advance what was in that message from Prefect Veska to Chief Councillor Zaius.

I think that this is likely.

Veska sent a gorilla to Central City with a message for Zaius. That gorilla messenger rode as fast as he could from the vicinity of Chalo (and the landing site) to Central City. I think that he either went first to Urko and then to Zaius -- denoting his loyalty to the Top Gorilla, giving Urko a Heads-Up on this security matter -- or else another of Veska's gorillas sent a "light signal" via one of those Heliograph signalling devices to Urko... so that Urko knew ahead of time that another ship had landed, and that two "superior" humans were on-the-loose. Those two humans obviously had to have arrived in the Ape-dominated region from somewhere outside of it.

A foreign threat if ever there was one. The vanguard forces... the tip of the spear... the insertion of a Fifth Column force to rally the enslaved humans who are all burning with resentment.. .

I think that Urko deems himself to be a General, facing a foreign threat. So, to broadcast that politically- charged belief, he wears the studded/glyphed Poncho and the glyphed Helmet, the uniform of the General.

But Zaius doesn't want the Ape society's government to be dominated by the military. Rather than allow Urko to seize power (using the arrival of the Astronauts as the "incident" he needs to justify a military coup, the way Ursus would use the "incident" involving the 12 scouts in "BENEATH"), Zaius goes out of his way to refer to Urko as the "Chief of Security". In other words, Zaius uses semantics as a way to remind Urko that officially this matter of the Astronauts is a matter of domestic security, a police matter, and not a military threat requiring the mustering of a full-fledged Army (and the concomitant invoking of Martial Law).

Urko wants there to be Martial Law... he wants more power... he wants to be a full-fledged General of the Army... but most of the people (i.e. the Apes, the "people" with any say in the matter of their own governance) don't want Urko to be in charge of the entire government. In "The Cure" Urko almost makes a bid for the position of ultimate power... he draws his gun, even, in a none-too-veiled threat to seize power from Zaius and the rest of the High Council... but without sufficient support for his cause, he knows he dares not attempt it, lest he lose the official power he does wield -- as "Chief of Security".

So... I think it is important to ponder the meaning of the titles and ranks implied by "Chief of Security" and "General"... I think it adds an extra dimension to the power-politics going on in the midst of the "domestic" crisis faced by Apedom. Urko wants it to be a matter of Foreign Policy -- so that he can be General, ruling all of Apedom under Martial Law -- rather than a police matter, where he is still under the supervision of the rest of the High Council, whose Chief Councillor (Zaius) doesn't trust him...

How galling it must have been for Urko to have Galen along on that trip to Chalo... a paper-pushing chimpanzee assistant who, being sent by Zaius himself as his representative, acts with a higher authority than Urko! It's no wonder that Urko was willing to destroy Galen with false charges of Murder, Treason, and Heresy later on. He could make a prima facie case for those charges, at any rate. And he was willing to do it, I think, in part to get back at Zaius... to use the Book as a weapon against Zaius' once-representative -- and against Zaius, obliquely. And there was nothing Zaius could do about it. A gorilla was dead, and the evidence could be interpreted as an act of Murder -- an Ape killed by another Ape, a Chimpanzee "human sympathizer" murdering a brave Gorilla soldier whilst helping two dangerous humans to escape custody. Think of the propaganda value of this, that Urko could use against his 'enemies' on the High Council, using public opinion to sway them against Zaius and towards his own militant views.

Chief of Security Urko wants to be General Urko. He has the uniform -- which, perhaps, he isn't really supposed to don unless and until the High Council declares a military state-of-emergency and invests him with the position of Supreme Commander of the Ape Army. But he puts it on anyway... to signal his politically- charged attempt to change Ape society into a Police State... where even the Apes have to worry about their own military forces ruling them, "policing" them.

The Apes living in 3085 are on that slippery slope that leads to the power-grab by the Military... and the danger of the abuse of that power. We living in a post-9/11 world have more than a little in common with that scenario, what with covert domestic wire-tapping by Homeland Security, etc etc etc...

Patrick

 

 

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I first encountered TIME OF THE APES as an episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000 -- one of their best episodes, the segment where they show off the Ape fashions is a riot! Although their constant ribbing of Sandy Frank is rumored to have caused some problems for Rhino video releasing some of these episodes these days on DVD (...keep circulating the tapes)!

 

How about a manga-style Time of the Apes short story for the website? Done in the same style as that Dr Zira picture?

 

Perhaps Time of the Apes could be worked into the regular POTA timeline...after all, we don't know what happened in Japan after the atomic war...

Bill

 

 

In a message dated 12/18/2006 5:27:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- Speaking of Time of the Apes did anyone else ever see this description / review of it by some bloke who was selling it on eBay? Very funny:

 

"Back in the 60's the Japanese bought a load of Planet of the Apes materials and decided to make their own version of the movie, with interesting results, finally it's here, it's a classic and a must own, let me tell you why!

Johnny (Masaaki Kaji) and Caroline (Hiroko Saito) are annoying Japanese schoolchildren straight out of GODZILLA flick central casting. Johnny has that round, moon face that suggests too many dumplings and a role as the teenager Sammo Hung in a made-for-TV bio-pic while Caroline sports white knee-highs, pigtails, and a denim jumper over a Holly Hobbie blouse, securing a place for her in the hearts and minds of freaky Japanese schoolgirl fetish fans everywhere.

While visiting the hi-tech lab of Uncle Charlie, the kids and chaperone Catherine (Reiko Tokunaga) take refuge from an earthquake in capsules that shield them from the falling debris, not to mention the danger of that big cardboard "computer" catching fire from the blinking lightbulbs jammed into it.

The good news is they survive the earthquake. The bad news is they wake up several thousand years into the future on... wait for it... a planet ruled by apes! (You were expecting something else from a flick called TIME OF THE APES?)

What follows is one of the most entertaining "so bad it's great" gems I've seen in years. All the cliche POTA subplots can be found in abundance... the area the apes are afraid to venture into; Pepe, the helpful ape child (played Kazue Takita), who looks like a kid in an Ewok mask; Godo, the obligatory "wildman" (Tetsuya Ushio) who might as well come from a tribe called "The Beatniks" with his turtleneck sweater and wild beard; in-fighting within the ape community; and, oh, so much more.

Unlike "official" APES entries, TIME OF THE APES steers clear of any "messages" like racial harmony, technology gone awry or man's inhumanity to man for most of its 98 minute running time. That changes during a revealing encounter between our "naked ape" humans and Police Chief Gebar (Baku Hatakeyama), which is pronounced "Gay Bar" throughout the flick.

Thanks to some name-clearing footage provided by a buttinsky of a UFO and the good-natured wisdom of the sartorially resplendent Commander (Wataru Omae), our heroes are given the opportunity to live a life that basically translates to "separate but equal" status. Until, of course, an encounter with a supercomputer that explains (sorta) how apes came to rule and gives our intrepid time-travelers a chance to travel even further into the future or live life on another planet. Some choices huh!

What the computer does not explain is: how the apes came into possession of leftover uniforms from a civil war re-enactment society; why the Commander wears a costume that can only be described as Dolemite Meets Colonel Sanders; what the origin of the CB antenna, um, I mean "laser whip" is; how - if it's a few thousand years in the future - the apes are driving a fine selection of 1960s/70s muscle cars; or, if Uncle Charlie's smoking around the "highly sensitive" computer equipment had anything to do with thrusting our heroes into the future.

With all the junk that's clogging up the 600 cable channels we get, I find it hard to believe somebody wasn't willing to air the 26 episodes that make up the entire Japanese TV series from which this flick was edited together. I guarantee it would immediately become my favorite show on television!"

 

Neil

 

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Yeah Pat, I got a flu shot.

Too bad it had absolutely

no effect on stomach flu.

 

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In a message dated 12/31/2006 1:55:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, atragon1@... writes:

Although their constant ribbing of Sandy Frank is rumored to have caused some problems for Rhino video releasing some of these episodes these days on DVD

 

Sandy FRANK!

Sandy FRANK!

He's the source of all out painnnnnnnnn....

 

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In a message dated 12/31/2006 1:55:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, atragon1@... writes:

How about a manga-style Time of the Apes short story for the website? Done in the same style as that Dr Zira picture?

 

Which one?

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In a message dated 12/31/2006 5:35:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, TZer0@... writes:

In a message dated 12/31/2006 1:55:06 P.M. Central Standard Time, atragon1@aol. com writes:

How about a manga-style Time of the Apes short story for the website? Done in the same style as that Dr Zira picture?

 

Which one?

Why this one by Neil,

 

 

-- Well only one. This one:

 

 

 

Neil

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Monday, 18 December 2006 7:45 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] Anime

I am fairly sure Neil has done a few examples.... .

.

Messages in this topic (62) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic

<.html

>54b. Re: General Urko
>Posted by: "atragon1@..." atragon1@... majorhendricks
>I believe Urko was officially promoted to a general in the RETURN animated
>series.

Ah, but remember, they're not the same Urko -- almost 900 years
separate the two apes, in fact.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Comics/POTA Begins/09 pencils.jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <ntfoster@...>
Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
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To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,

munkeyman63au <ntfoster@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Comics/POTA Begins/09_1.jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <ntfoster@...>
Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
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To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
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Regards,

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 2 January 2007 5:42 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] New file uploaded to PotaDG

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Comics/POTA Begins/09_1. jpg
Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <ntfoster@bigpond. com>
Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
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Regards,

munkeyman63au <ntfoster@bigpond. com>

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Its been a while. I'm kinda lost at this point. I'm gonna have to go
back to the begining to try and figure out what's going on here.
Looks fantastic, though.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
> group.
>
> File : /Comics/POTA Begins/09_1.jpg
> Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <ntfoster@...>
> Description :
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Comics/POTA%
20Begins/09_1.jpg
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
>
> Regards,
>
> munkeyman63au <ntfoster@...>
>

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Tuesday, 2 January 2007 9:57 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG

Its been a while. I'm kinda lost at this point. I'm gonna have to go
back to the begining to try and figure out what's going on here.
Looks fantastic, though.

 

<.html

.html In a message dated 12/30/2006 4:38:12 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I have issue #1 of SS and boy – it ain't that pretty.  I don't recall all its' faults but I do recall a page being dedicated to people wishing John Chambers well – quite a waste of space.

*** I've not seen that issue, but anyway, I can't say wishing the creator of the apes appliances and the apes "look" is anything bad... Sure, reading "get well" 1000 times might be tiresome, but the man deserved it for what he did for APES...

Really, the "get well" page is sure no worse than the "birthday" posts generated by this and the other groups...<.html

.html In a message dated 12/30/2006 2:56:08 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

Putting aside for a moment WHO it is for – may I ask you Mike what you WOULD like to see in a paper POTA fanzine.

*** Well, one thing that I owuld have liked to seen materialize in Scrolls was the apes Toy issue... Maybe something along those lines mightbe a good idea...

And, while it's a year off, I'd like to see an in-depth issue featuring the original PLANET film exclusively!<.html

.html In a message dated 1/1/2007 7:20:38 AM Central Standard Time, handleyr@... writes:

>54b. Re: General Urko
>Posted by: "atragon1@..." atragon1@... majorhendricks
>I believe Urko was officially promoted to a general in the RETURN animated
>series.

Ah, but remember, they're not the same Urko -- almost 900 years
separate the two apes, in fact.

*** Not only 900 years, but RETURN is truly a seperate APES entity...

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Reminder from:		PotaDG Yahoo! Group
Title:		Jason Evers' Birthday
Date:		Tuesday January 2, 2007
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Next reminder:		The next reminder for this event will be sent in 365 days, 9 minutes.
Notes:		Happy Birthday Jason!
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Reminder from:		PotaDG Yahoo! Group
Title:		Jason Evers' Birthday
Date:		Tuesday January 2, 2007
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Notes:		Happy Birthday Jason!
Yahoo! Greetings:		Send a Yahoo! Greeting
Yahoo! Shopping:		Browse Yahoo! Shopping Gift Guide
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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Tuesday, 2 January 2007 2:21 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Suggestions for content AC.

*** Well, one thing that I owuld have liked to seen materialize in Scrolls was the apes Toy issue... Maybe something along those lines mightbe a good idea...

.

<.html

Attachments :

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Tuesday, 2 January 2007 2:24 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Cross dressing...I mean posting......

*** I've not seen that issue, but anyway, I can't say wishing the creator of the apes appliances and the apes "look" is anything bad... Sure, reading "get well" 1000 times might be tiresome, but the man deserved it for what he did for APES...

Really, the "get well" page is sure no worse than the "birthday" posts generated by this and the other groups...

.

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I'll admit that page 8 really threw me while I was playing catch-up on
messages. It helped to go back and re-read everything from the
beginning. It appears that this page cements the fact that there are
three different narratives going on. We've got the narrator from the
beginning who has been waiting for 'the one' for 'centuries' - turns
out he's an ape, and not the kind of ape wee used to in the films,
either. We've got whoever was in the vehicle testing the environment
and is watching over the girl and her stuffed monkey (why we see the
girl and stuffed monkey at different ages/times on pages 7 and 8 I
don't know, or even if it's the same girl), and then we've got the
group of humans and apes who are working together, although we can
already see that there are diffences of opinion within the group that
may splinter it apart.

All very interesting, and I'm curious to see where it's going.

Greg

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil T Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- All the pages completed so far can be found in this folder:
> http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Comics/POTA%
20Begins/
>
> Neil

That issue of Comicbook Marketplace, with the Moench interview, has
been available on Hunter's site for a while. The issue of Comic Book
Artist that has an interview with Moench is #7. It's a good
interview covering a lot of his work and how he started writing
comics, but there isn't much Apes info in it. Stuff about working
with Ploog, but no big revelations about unplublished stories, as I
recall. The issue is sold out from the publisher, but was included
in a collected edition, which is still available.

Greg

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Hill" <shop@...> wrote:
>
>
> I haven't Forgotten Michael, still looking for the mag' but due
to the
> fact that I've just hit the southern comfort and ABBA is on , it's
more
> than likly going to be after Christmas !!!
>
> Best graham.
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Graham, I'd like to see that!
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
Behalf
> Of
> > Graham Hill
> > Sent: Friday, 22 December 2006 5:14 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Unused Marvel Comic Page!
> >
> > I think Moench has been asked a couple of times about unused
Marvel
> strips,
> > possibly in the magazines Comicbook market place or comicbook
artists,
> and
> > doesn't remember much.I'll see if I can find a quote.
> >
> > Best Graham.

Thanks Greg, I was still looking !!!  ( A few days ago, when looking for something else,I uttered  the words I thought I'd never say,  "I've got too many comics")

Those  two mags were the main pair I was thinking of but as you say not much info on Apes.

I'm sure there's an other mini interview with him some where ?

possibly Comic Book Artist #10 ?

I have a vague memory of someone asking him about unpublished Ape stuff but his reply was pretty much that he couldn't remember anything about it.

Best, Graham.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "gp3085" <urko3085@...> wrote:
>
> That issue of Comicbook Marketplace, with the Moench interview, has
> been available on Hunter's site for a while. The issue of Comic Book
> Artist that has an interview with Moench is #7. It's a good
> interview covering a lot of his work and how he started writing
> comics, but there isn't much Apes info in it. Stuff about working
> with Ploog, but no big revelations about unplublished stories, as I
> recall. The issue is sold out from the publisher, but was included
> in a collected edition, which is still available.
>
> Greg
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Hill" shop@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > I haven't Forgotten Michael, still looking for the mag' but due
> to the
> > fact that I've just hit the southern comfort and ABBA is on , it's
> more
> > than likly going to be after Christmas !!!
> >
> > Best graham.
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Graham, I'd like to see that!
> > >
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf
> > Of
> > > Graham Hill
> > > Sent: Friday, 22 December 2006 5:14 AM
> > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Unused Marvel Comic Page!
> > >
> > > I think Moench has been asked a couple of times about unused
> Marvel
> > strips,
> > > possibly in the magazines Comicbook market place or comicbook
> artists,
> > and
> > > doesn't remember much.I'll see if I can find a quote.
> > >
> > > Best Graham.
>

(Hope you don't mind me jumping in here Neil.)

It's because the paintings a parody of Mad magazine, Dr Zaius as Alfred E Newman !!!

Neil, have you seen the Mad cover of Frankenstein's Monster painting a small toy model of Alfred E. Newman ?

Was this the inspiration for the cover ?

Best, Graham.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> Nice painting Neil!
>
>
>
> Why does Dr Z have a space between his front teeth?
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Neil T Foster
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 January 2007 7:11 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Suggestions for content AC.
>
>
>
> -- Well I do have a painted cover that could be used for a Toy issue:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Neil :-)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> mlccougar@...
> Sent: Tuesday, 2 January 2007 2:21 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Suggestions for content AC.
>
> *** Well, one thing that I owuld have liked to seen materialize in Scrolls
> was the apes Toy issue... Maybe something along those lines mightbe a good
> idea...
>
> .
>
> Web Bug from
> http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=8605785/grpspId=1705021437/msgId=
> 42624/stime=1167712378/nc1=3858789/nc2=3848614/nc3=4299903
>
>
>
> --

There is another Moench interview, along with Tom Sutton, in CBA #6.
It's a much shorter piece than the one in #7, but it's more focused
on Apes (but still nothing on unpublished stories). That issue is
also out of print, but is available in a collection.

Due out on April 18 is a new publication from TwoMorrows: Comics
Gone Ape! This will have what I presume is a new interview with
Moench. Maybe he'll remember something about unpublished stories in
that one.

Here's a link to the new book on the TwoMorrows site:

http://twomorrows.com/index.php?ain_page=product_info&products_id=522

Greg

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Hill" <shop@...> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks Greg, I was still looking !!! ( A few days ago, when
looking for
> something else,I uttered the words I thought I'd never
say, "I've got
> too many comics")
>
> Those two mags were the main pair I was thinking of but as you
say not
> much info on Apes.
>
> I'm sure there's an other mini interview with him some where ?
>
> possibly Comic Book Artist #10 ?
>
> I have a vague memory of someone asking him about unpublished Ape
stuff
> but his reply was pretty much that he couldn't remember anything
about
> it.
>
> Best, Graham.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Tuesday, 2 January 2007 11:04 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Suggestions for content AC.

Nice painting Neil!

 

Why does Dr Z have a space between his front teeth?

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gp3085
Sent: Wednesday, 3 January 2007 4:04 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: New file uploaded to PotaDG

 We've got whoever was in the vehicle testing the environment
and is watching over the girl and her stuffed monkey (why we see the
girl and stuffed monkey at different ages/times on pages 7 and 8 I
don't know, or even if it's the same girl),

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Plonowski
Sent: Wednesday, 3 January 2007 4:46 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com; potadg@yahoogroups.com; friends & fugitives
Subject: [PotaDG] Marvel UK issue 116 and Simian Scrolls issue 4

It's a New Year and we have a new issue of Marvel UK's Planet of the Apes from 1977. This issue continues both the Battle and Beneath adaptations, with a 2-page letter column sanwiched in-between. Seven more issues until one of these adaptations concludes along with the magazine at issue 123 and the other continues into Mighty World of Marvel (which we'll also be posting - all 16 issues that contained Apes comics). Which will it be? Place your bets now, true believers!

 

Also this week we have the 4th issue of Simian Scrolls, from Winter 2001, now available in PDF format. Thanks to John Roche, Dave Ballard and all the Scrolls contributors.

 

https://pota. goatley.com

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hill
Sent: Wednesday, 3 January 2007 5:02 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Suggestions for content AC.

(Hope you don't mind me jumping in here Neil.)

It's because the paintings a parody of Mad magazine, Dr Zaius as Alfred E Newman !!!

Neil, have you seen the Mad cover of Frankenstein' s Monster painting a small toy model of Alfred E. Newman ?

Was this the inspiration for the cover ?

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of atragon1@...
Sent: Monday, 1 January 2007 5:19 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: General Urko

One wonders what would have happened if Ursus had defeated the mutants. Would he have marched back to Ape City and his emergency powers indefinitely extended? Would he have marched on the city and taken over by force, or would he have relinquished his power back to Zaius and the council?

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Sunday, 31 December 2006 12:36 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] more APES music!

anyone know anything about this?

http://cgi.ebay. com/BRIAN- INGLAND-LATE- 60S-PLANET- OF-THE-APES- 45_W0QQitemZ3200 64998548QQihZ011 QQcategoryZ306QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewIt em

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of atragon1@...
Sent: Monday, 1 January 2007 5:44 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Time of the Apes [was: Anime - oh Ty....]

Perhaps Time of the Apes could be worked into the regular POTA timeline...after all, we don't know what happened in Japan after the atomic war...

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Monday, 1 January 2007 4:00 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: General Urko

In "BATTLE" Aldo insists on being referred to by his "proper rank" of "General"... and he, too, is the leader of the Apes' army. This is never contested by Caesar, so it's evident that Aldo is not arrogating to himself a rank that is not recognized by the community-at- large. He really is the General of the Army of the Apes....

.

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In a message dated 1/2/2007 6:15:13 PM Eastern Standard Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- Speaking of which, how come he wasn't wearing his 'general's collar' from the start? For about half the film he doesn't have it and then suddenly he's wearing the thing for the rest of the movie!

 

Neil

 

Maybe he sent it out to be dry cleaned?

 

Bill

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, 3 January 2007 8:32 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Unused Marvel Comic Page!

Well if anyone has a chance they should ask him who might know! 

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry
Sent: Thursday, 28 December 2006 4:54 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] PLANET OF THE APES 15th Anniversary of APE CHRONICLES

PLANET OF THE APES 15th Anniversary of APE CHRONICLES

Ape Chronicles turns 15 years old this month
So we are putting out a special anniversary issue #40 and are looking
for your input.

We'd love to hear from you with your comments - good or bad on Ape
Chronicles and its role in Apedom over the years since 1991.

You can just email me your thoughts OR if you would like to make any
major contribution POTA related (reviews, fanfiction, original art)
etc please get in touch with me at
hoknes@hotmail. com

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of atragon1@...
Sent: Monday, 1 January 2007 5:44 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Time of the Apes [was: Anime - oh Ty....]

I first encountered TIME OF THE APES as an episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000 -- one of their best episodes, the segment where they show off the Ape fashions is a riot! Although their constant ribbing of Sandy Frank is rumored to have caused some problems for Rhino video releasing some of these episodes these days on DVD (...keep circulating the tapes)!

.

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-- He's actually from the Philippines, same as that great POTA artist
Alfredo Alcala.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds Jamacian!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> Neil T Foster
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 January 2007 10:22 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Unused Marvel Comic Page!
> -- If not Doug Moench what would be the chances of getting in touch
with the artist of that unused page that Rich shared with us. It was
by Sonny Trinidad I think wasn't it? Is he still alive?

Attachments :

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil
Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 11:49 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Unused Marvel Comic Page!

-- He's actually from the Philippines, same as that great POTA artist
Alfredo Alcala.

Neil

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:
>
> Sounds Jamacian!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@yahoogroups. com] On
Behalf Of
> Neil T Foster
> Sent: Wednesday, 3 January 2007 10:22 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Unused Marvel Comic Page!
> -- If not Doug Moench what would be the chances of getting in touch
with the artist of that unused page that Rich shared with us. It was
by Sonny Trinidad I think wasn't it? Is he still alive?

 

<.html

My best guess is that Aldo dons the poncho-collar as a way of
indicating that he is seizing power and declaring Martial Law. In
other words, he has been the General all along, but prior to that he
had been 2nd to Caesar... and NOW he is declaring himself 2nd to
none, since "Caesar is not here" to be a hands-on ruler during the
crisis they face from the invading mutants.

I think it's probable that there is a 'history' to that poncho-collar
item. At some point in their past, Aldo had to have worn it as a
symbol of rulership -- and then been forced to take it off, when the
vox populi demanded that Caesar be their king. Aldo was forced into a
subservient role, and has probably been seething with resentment over
it for some time. Perhaps a substantial percentage of the gorillas
had sided with Caesar, too... but later on, when Caesar's decisions
seem to disenfranchise the gorilla contingent, they side with Aldo
over the king the other apes prefer. Aldo had to have been fairly
confident that his re-donning of the poncho-collar would be accepted
by enough of the people. That is, there would be no opposition from
any gorillas anymore, and with Caesar forsaking the good of the
people in order to stay at his own heir's bedside, perhaps some of
the other apes (predominantly orangutans, excepting Mandemus and
Virgil) would approve of Aldo stepping forward to be the decisive
leader they need in the moment of peril facing them all.

I don't think it's a coincidence, Neil, that Aldo puts that collar on
right before he brings his wounded gorilla soldier to the Council
arena... so that he can use that attack by Kolp's forces as the
incident HE needs to declare Martial Law and seize power during the
power vacuum.

Patrick
================================================================

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil T Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- Speaking of which, how come he wasn't wearing his 'general's
collar' from the start? For about half the film he doesn't have it
and then suddenly he's wearing the thing for the rest of the movie!
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
>
> In "BATTLE" Aldo insists on being referred to by his "proper rank"
of "General"... and he, too, is the leader of the Apes' army. This is
never contested by Caesar, so it's evident that Aldo is not
arrogating to himself a rank that is not recognized by the community-
at-large. He really is the General of the Army of the Apes....

.html In a message dated 1/3/2007 9:31:59 PM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

My best guess is that Aldo dons the poncho-collar as a way of
indicating that he is seizing power and declaring Martial Law.

*** I agree with you 100% on this point!***<.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Thursday, 4 January 2007 1:16 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: General Urko

My best guess is that Aldo dons the poncho-collar as a way of
indicating that he is seizing power and declaring Martial Law. In
other words, he has been the General all along, but prior to that he
had been 2nd to Caesar... and NOW he is declaring himself 2nd to
none, since "Caesar is not here" to be a hands-on ruler during the
crisis they face from the invading mutants.

.

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.html I'll admit, I am confused by the whole thing... Confused really as to how this all is supposed to "tie in" with the original POTA.... I don't know where you're going with it, and I'm hoping for the best, but at this point, it's quite far out for me...

BTW: I can't say I really dig the idea of apes in skull caps...<.html