-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwhitty
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:02 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Apes stuff available

you’ll find there was some kinda POTA club in Aus and you got a WRITING PAD when you joined!

.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:

In a message dated 6/19/2007 4:47:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
ntfoster@... writes:


'The passing on' of Mendez's brain from one new body to the next over
the generations is a bit of brilliant invention in my opinion. So
what if it isn't 'canon' it still makes a lot of sense and expands
the story of the mutants in a very cool way.

*** The idea of one body passing on their brain is absolutely
LUDICROUS!

It makes no sense! It'd be like saying that all of the Kennedys that
have been in office here shared the brain of JFK... Just because
their ["they're"] a "dynasty" doesn't mean that the Mendez group
shared the same brain as the first one and it was passed down...
People DO have individual minds of their own... And, besides that,
what would have happened if let's say Mendez the 12th was a child
while Mendez the 11th was ruling? Are we to believe that Mendez the
12th sat there with his own brain, and he grew up, maybe even went
well into adulthood before Mendez the 11th died and then Mendez the
12th was able to get that much needed brain transplant?!?

===============================================================

*** If I may chime in here...

First off, thanks for the nice words from those who like my idea
regarding Mendez.

Now, as to Mlccougar's disliking of it...

Right away you begin with a misrepresentation of what I was talking
about. You say: "The idea of one body passing on their brain is
absolutely LUDICROUS!" But I'm NOT talking about "passing on their
brain" -- I'm talking about telepathically taking "possession" of
another person's brain... imposing one Mind onto the brain of another.

And, in BENEATH, we've already seen evidence that the Mutants are
able to do this sort of thing to a certain extent with their fully-
grown adult victims. We first see this when Brent and Nova are at the
fountain right outside St. Patrick's Cathedral. After first getting a
brief drink, Brent motions Nova over to the fountain and, as she
scoops up palm-fulls of water to drink, we in the audience hear that
dissonant TONE begin to sound... eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee... and Brent
begins to react to something that is happening inside his brain.

We see him clutch at his face, then stare down at Nova (still
drinking water)... and then he grabs her by the neck and "he" tries
to drown her. BUT IT ISN'T BRENT WHO IS TRYING TO DROWN NOVA. It is
(probably) the "Negro" mutant, with his eyes closed, taking control
of Brent's body, getting into a battle of wills with Brent's persona
to see who gets to control his own limbs.

"Put-my-hands-round-her-throat---OFF!" etc etc.

What the hell is going on in this scene? Is Brent going nuts, turning
into a psychopathic murderer? Of COURSE not! The Mutant is "cutting
in" on Brent's MIND, pushing aside Brent's persona and interjecting
his own persona -- INSIDE BRENT'S BRAIN -- so that he can control his
limbs. In specific, the Mutant's mind is "infecting" Brent's cerebral
cortex, his CEREBRUM where (among other things) his MOTOR CORTEX is
situated. It is there, in the brain, where an individual's voluntary
muscle control is regulated. The ONLY way that Brent's arms and hands
could -- against his will -- proceed to strangle Nova is if his own
Mind is NOT in complete control of that part of his cerebral cortex.

BENEATH opened the door for further speculation regarding these kinds
of telepathic powers. We know that the Mutants can force their
victims to experience AUDIO-VISUAL illusions -- which they refer to
as "the Visual Deterrent" and "the Sonic Deterrent"; in conjunction,
they can impinge on the collective minds of the entire invasion force
led by Ursus and Zaius -- as well as the minds of their horses, which
also react to the "false" vision of the crucified gorillas in a
burning desert over which the bleeding Lawgiver statue towers.

Your other comment, regarding the Kennedys all somehow sharing JFK's
brain, is also off-the-wall. I'm not talking about shared BRAINS; I'm
talking about ONE person's MIND (the mind of Mendez, the dude in
BATTLE played by Paul Stevens) telepathically hijacking the BRAIN of
a fetus (the unborn child of Alma, begotten by Kolp).

The way I see it, it takes a certain amount of effort for a Mutant to
telepathically "hijack" the brain of an adult person (human or ape),
since an adult has a WILL of his/her own which can, presumably, exert
a force -- WILL-POWER -- to reject the intrusive Personality. In the
Lawgiver/Crucified-gorillas illusion, the "spell" is broken when
Zaius becomes convinced that the "vision is a lie". How does he KNOW
it's a lie? Well, he knows that only eleven of Ursus' scouts
disappeared... and there are well more than eleven crucified gorillas
in the 'vision' -- which suggests that the Mutants are inundating the
invading Ape Army with MULTIPLE COPIES of "holographic movies" of
each of the crucified gorillas. Apes may all "look alike" to most
humans, but the Apes can probably distinguish one ape from another...
and I suspect that Zaius recognized at least ONE individual crucified
gorilla COPIED at least once in the vision. Since he can't be in two
or more places at once, then that gorilla -- Zaius would reason --
must NOT be in EITHER place, in all probability.

Thus, Zaius gallops down into the midst of the "fire" and suffers no
ill-effects; in other words, the Mutants were so busy cooking up the
AUDIO-VISUAL illusion that they couldn't react in time to Zaius'
brave act in order to force upon him the ILLUSION that it was
scorchingly hot down there. Zaius didn't feel the flames. It all
proved to him that "the vision was false".

Caspay, disgruntled by it all, mutters, "Stupid animals! They don't
have the BRAIN to hold our illusion!"

It is the BRAIN, Cougar, the neuron-filled organ composed of grey-
matter, which "holds" the Mutants' illusions. The Mutants are able to
exert mental energies, telepathic abilities, in order to intrude
their own personalities inside other beings' brains.

And they're disingenuous about it. Three times with Brent (and once
with Taylor) they use their own Minds to take control of other
people's limbs:

1) forcing Brent to attempt to drown Nova
2) forcing Brent to choke Nova (while kissing her)
3) forcing Brent and Taylor to fight each other

Yet Albina lyingly tells Brent (#2 above), "WE never harm anyone...
YOU'RE going to harm her." Well, that's disingenuous. It may be
Brent's hands that choke Nova, but the WILL -- the MIND -- that
controls those limbs is NOT Brent's, but the Negro's. The Mutants
have fooled themselves into believing that they are not culpable for
the physical acts of torture and violence committed by their Enemies,
whom they telepathically force to fight each other. They claim that
they are "a peaceful people" -- but that is as much a DELUSION on
their own part.

If Mendez -- or any other mutant -- can inflict those Visual and
Sonic "deterrents" on other non-telepathic creatures... if they can
hijack the Motor Cortices of others and control them like
puppeteers... then why is it "ludicrous" that Mendez (in BATTLE) can
intrude his Mind onto the Brain of an unborn fetus?

It's SCIENCE FICTION, buddy! And I'm not the first person to use this
sort of theme. Many other SF authors have written stories about Mind-
Controlling Telepaths, and some of them have used the same idea
regarding this kind of "reincarnation" (the transferring of one's own
Mind into another body, hijacking the Brain of the other person and
forcing that other personality out). The very last episode of the
original "STAR TREK" series ("Turnabout Intruder") was about a
villainess [I think her name was "Janice Lester"] who used a fancy
gizmo to change places with Kirk, so that Kirk's mind was trapped in
her (female) body and HER mind was in control of Kirk's (male) body.
Shatner, acting the role of the woman-in-control-of-Kirk's-body, had
to adopt non-masculine body language and all that... remember???

Later you ask: "And, besides that, what would have happened if let's
say Mendez the 12th was a child while Mendez the 11th was ruling? Are
we to believe that Mendez the 12th sat there with his own brain, and
he grew up, maybe even went well into adulthood before Mendez the
11th died and then Mendez the 12th was able to get that much needed
brain transplant?!?"

Again, it isn't a BRAIN-transplant that I'm talking about. It's the
imposition of a MIND onto the brain of a FETUS -- a human infant who
hasn't yet had sufficient life-experiences built up to constitute a
PERSONALITY of his own. Unlike an ADULT -- who HAS built up a body of
self-memories and an Identity, a Personality -- an INFANT would lack
that buttressing Personality. A baby is VULNERABLE in all ways,
especially mentally. And, in my scenario, Mendez takes advantage of
this vulnerability... by telepathically "copying" his own Mind onto
the Brain of the unborn baby, like pressing a Seal into hot
wax, "stamping" it with the 'image' of his own Mind.

But (in my scenario) the copy isn't 100% perfect. It's like making a
photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy, generation after generation
after generation. Unlike burning a CD which can copy byte-by-byte,
bit-by-bit EXACTLY... Mendez IMPERFECTLY copies his Mind, his
Personality, his Memories onto the new "storage medium" because the
neural pathways he's digging into the baby's brain do have to compete
with the neural pathways that had already developed in utero. Mendez
LOSES some of his memories, and misremembers some of the ones which
are imperfectly copied.

AND... in that period of time when his adult Mind is in the process
of taking over the infant's Brain, the telepathic connection is
interfered with (subliminally) by the fetus' mother. Mendez (the
First) did not worship the Doomsday Bomb, even after he had
telepathically "tasped" the minds of the other survivors in that
bombed city into adopting that worshipful state-of-mind... but Mendez
the Second is born TELEPATHICALLY INFECTED with that Bomb-veneration,
due to the prenatal influence of Alma.

That's why, in BENEATH, the Mutant at the pipe organ is playing
the "PSALM OF MENDEZ II". All that nonsense about "the Holy Fallout"
(etc etc) was developed in Mendez's second lifetime.

Mendez II did have a "mind" of his own, in a way. But he had
inherited, for the most part, a fair percentage of the Personality
and the Memories of Mendez I. But it was an imperfect transfer. And,
some 25 generations later, the copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of
a copy of a copy (etc etc etc) wound up in control of the Mutant
community in the year 3955 as Mendez XXVI. By that time, he had
forgotten so much of his ORIGINAL personality's memories that he (and
the people he governs) has the insane belief that they are "the only
reality in the Universe" (as Brent hears it). That's why, when Brent
tells them that he's an astronaut who had time-traveled into the
Future about 2,000 years from their distant Past at near-lightspeed
through Outer Space, they telepathically tell him that "it sounds
insane": if Mendez had ACCURATELY copied his oldest memories life-
after-life-after-life, then he (and all his followers) would've been
fully aware of the 20th Century einsteinian (and hassleinian) notion
of Time Dilation at near-light velocity (etc). But that aspect of
Relativity Theory is just one of the many things that Mendez has
altogether forgotten; he's a 26th generation flawed copy. Imagine
watching a VHS videotape copy of a copy... a 26-generation copy!
Would it be even remotely watchable? Hell, I've still got some 3rd
generation copies on VHS that are "sad" to say the least!

In my scenario, when each version of Mendez (pick a number between
ONE and TWENTY-FIVE) gets near the end of his body's natural
lifespan -- around age 77 or so, on average -- he picks a fetus from
the group of women who happen to be pregnant at that time...
preferably a MALE fetus, since he's of the opinion that the Clergy
should be a male-only institution (he DOES worship in a Catholic
cathedral, after all)... and he uses his "Master Telepath" abilities
to reincarnate -- to imprint his brainwaves (etc) onto the still-
developing brain of the fetus.

He's a Master Telepath. His telepathic abilities are far stronger
than those of the people he governs. Even when his Mind is inside a
fetus' brain, his personality is strong enough to dominate the rest
of the Mutants. If one Mutant could somehow get it in his or her mind
to try to murder Mendez when he is presumably vulnerable -- during
the transition from Elder to Infant -- Mendez's MIND can still detect
the traitorous thought and inflict a sufficiently powerful blast of
brainwaves at the would-be assassin.

In my scenario, ONLY MENDEZ has the ability to "reincarnate" in this
fashion. None of the other Mutants can do it by himself or herself.
But Mendez -- as a "reward" to his most faithful and useful
followers -- has the ability to act as a Psychopomp, to assist
another person's Mind in the "jump" into another (infant) body. This
gives them the promise of Life Everlasting, which makes rebellion
against his rule all the more unthinkable to them.

Thus, not only Mendez but some of the other Mutants -- like the Four
who assist him in the interrogation of Brent -- are "old souls" who
have lived many lifetimes in a succession of bodies. And all of them,
by doing so, robbed those babies of a life of their own.

I think it kinda adds to the horror of that society. Imagine a
newborn baby in full possession of (most of his) memories and
abilities. Even before his infant vocal chords and larynx are able to
make audible speech sounds, his MIND can communicate with others, as
when the Group-of-Five Mutants communicate with Brent prior to
actually speaking one-at-a-time, by beaming in those meme-
clusters: "MEEP!" Imagine being stared at by a baby who, for the most
part, REMEMBERS you when he was in his prior old-man's body. The idea
rather creeps me out... which is kinda the POINT.

As to it being (or NOT being) 'canon', well, of course it
isn't 'canon' for those who don't dig it. Some people don't even
consider BENEATH (and all the other sequels) to be 'canon'. For the
sake of my own POTA epic, the 5 films and the 14 episodes are
MY 'canon' and these other bits of my scenario are designed to help
tie together all the extraneous details which have already been
presented on-screen. As long as they are CONSISTENT with what's been
done before (in the live-action original POTA stories), that's all
that matters to me.

Patrick

P.S. If I'm not mistaken, in the original DUNE trilogy they delved
into this business of an adult personality taking over the brain of a
baby as a sort of a telepathic reincarnation. It's been ages since I
read it, but I remember that bit. Was Frank Herbert's notion a
ludicrous one? Insofar as it is Science FICTION, it's no more wacky
than other notions, like the ability to "jaunt" in "THE STARS MY
DESTINATION".

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of peter_karsten63
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 3:12 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] RE: Peter_Karsten Folder

Hi everyone,

Just letting you know I have created my folder, and put some cool POTA
related stuff for you to read and look at.

Let me know what you think?

Regards.

Peter.

.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- Well we didn't have that much around Bury where I lived either, the
> Uk comics of course as well as the UK Annuals, the board game, a few
> (but nowhere near all) of the Mego/Palitoy figures and various masks
> (mostly unofficial ones though), most of the paperbacks and a foam face
> finger puppet. Oh and the TV show cards, but they stopped getting them
> in long before I could get the whole set!
>

>
> Neil
>

I remember slightly more around Manchester (As Neil will know, the nearest city to Bury, where he lived.)

One favourite was the UK poster mag,

The uk wrapping paper which doubled up as another poster was cool.

I did have the plastic rings produced in the uk ( 5 in the set, I had 2 sets because I nicked me brothers) but could only get these from a dodgey market stall in Failsworth (Rough Suburb or inner city / mini- Beirut of Manchester) again probably remaindered stock.

Sadly gone to land fill many years ago

The only place I could get the US comic at the time was another market town near by , Oldham, then it was just for the first 2 issues.

(I bought #2 first, they had both,  thinking it was #1 because it had the cover of POTA weekly #1, pestered my mother for a whole week to go back so I could buy the first one.)

As you point out Neil just a drop in the ocean compared to America and as mentioned I think a lot of stuff that did turn up was remaindered stock so only in small quanties.

Best Graham.

P.S oh the foam face puppets a new one on me !!!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mwhitty" <mwhitty@...> wrote:
>
> Is that part 1?
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> nlmoxham
> Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2007 10:17 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: (off topic) Doctor Who
>
>
>
> Just wait til you see 'Utopia'! Brilliant.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com>
com, "mwhitty"
> <mwhitty@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm watching it and isn't it great?
> >
> >
> >
> > Neil has seen up to "BLINK" - my fave so far - and we'll be
> watching that
> > and the first two parts of the three part conclusion on the
weekend.
> >
> >
> >
> > How about Sally Sparrow? I reckon she'll be a new spin-off
> character.
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups. <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com]
On
> Behalf Of
> > nlmoxham
> > Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2007 9:29 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] (off topic) Doctor Who
> >
> >
> >
> > For Doctor Who fans, you're in for a real treat when you get to
see
> the
> > latest series. I've gone from being fairly cynical at the start
of
> > the 'first' series to being completely won over by the end of the
> > third...
> >
>

>
>*** Well, he knows that only eleven of Ursus' scouts
> disappeared... and there are well more than eleven crucified

> in the 'vision' -- which suggests that the Mutants are inundating

> invading Ape Army with MULTIPLE COPIES of "holographic movies" of
> each of the crucified gorillas.
>
> Yet Albina lyingly tells Brent (#2 above), "WE never harm anyone...
> YOU'RE going to harm her." Well, that's disingenuous. It may be
> Brent's hands that choke Nova, but the WILL -- the MIND -- that
> controls those limbs is NOT Brent's, but the Negro's. The Mutants
> have fooled themselves into believing that they are not culpable

> the physical acts of torture and violence committed by their

> whom they telepathically force to fight each other. They claim that
> they are "a peaceful people" -- but that is as much a DELUSION on
> their own part.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hill
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:31 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Apes stuff available

P.S oh the foam face puppets a new one on me !!!

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwhitty
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:52 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Foam Face

I kept both and would you believe, after I sold the bitten one, Neil Foster ended up buying it on eBay!

.

>
>*** Well, he knows that only eleven of Ursus' scouts
> disappeared... and there are well more than eleven crucified

> in the 'vision' -- which suggests that the Mutants are inundating

> invading Ape Army with MULTIPLE COPIES of "holographic movies" of
> each of the crucified gorillas.
>
> Yet Albina lyingly tells Brent (#2 above), "WE never harm anyone...
> YOU'RE going to harm her." Well, that's disingenuous. It may be
> Brent's hands that choke Nova, but the WILL -- the MIND -- that
> controls those limbs is NOT Brent's, but the Negro's. The Mutants
> have fooled themselves into believing that they are not culpable

> the physical acts of torture and violence committed by their

> whom they telepathically force to fight each other. They claim that
> they are "a peaceful people" -- but that is as much a DELUSION on
> their own part.

That's just scary !!!

I remember the Laural and hardy ones knocking around but never saw the apes one.

Graham.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- Freaky or what!
>
> I had to buy it when it showed up after having one back in the old days
> which, like many of my other Apes things, went missing in action over
> the years!
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of mwhitty
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:52 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Foam Face
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I kept both and would you believe, after I sold the bitten one, Neil
> Foster ended up buying it on eBay!
>
> .
>
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=8605785/grpspId=1705021437/m
> sgId=45045/stime=1182413121/nc1=4617372/nc2=3858795/nc3=3848607>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mwhitty" <mwhitty@...> wrote:
>
> I got me a foam face when Battle was featuring in the Curtis mags.
>
>
>
> My cousin bit a chunk out of it and my aunt bought me another.
>
>
>
> I kept both and would you believe, after I sold the bitten one, Neil Foster
> ended up buying it on eBay!
>
>
>
> Small world….
>
>
>
> Michael
>

>
 You see Michael you could have held on to it a bit longer and cut out the middle man !!!

Graham.

>
> In my scenario, the 12 gorilla scouts -- after some of them were
> lured or captured and interrogated in Grand Central Terminal --

> forced to CRUCIFY each other, with several of them telepathically
> forced to gang up on an individual, using tent-pegs for the nails

> boards removed from a wagon-bed for the upside-down T-shaped

> Eventually, there's only one gorilla left who's yet to be
> crucified... but there's nobody else there who can be forced to do
> it: everybody else is hanging upside-down on a cross.
>
> The gorilla Army passing through the Forbidden Zone never does come
> across the actual site where the 11 crucified gorillas are hanging
> (dead). They see played-back holographic-type "movies" of them from
> when they were still alive on those crosses, at some distance from
> the actual 'Calvary' site.
>
> The 12th gorilla... how might HE have gotten away? He accurately
> reports what he saw regarding the "huge walls of fire... strange,
> violent earthquakes..." But he doesn't reveal to Ursus (or anybody
> else) that he had been controlled like a puppet by a puppeteer, and
> forced to commit atrocities on his fellow gorilla scouts. His mind
> caves in with grief at the horrid memories of those events, so he
> can't warn Ursus about how dangerous that area truly is. After all,
> the atrocious actions he'd been forced to carry out have made him
> lose his innocence... APE SHALL NEVER KILL APE. To have been forced
> to do just that just shatters him.
>
> He gets away -- in my scenario -- due to having suffered not only a
> nervous breakdown of some sort, but also a SEIZURE. The inundating
> illusions screw around with his neurons so much that they misfire

> over the place. The Mutants find themselves unable to maintain any
> control over the last scout due to the disordering of his nervous
> system. Realizing that he's had a seizure and is splayed out on the
> desert sands, they assume that he'll die of dehydration and heat
> exposure, so they leave him to his fate.
>
> But, with reserves of strength they didn't anticipate him having,
> he "comes to" the next day and manages to coax a frightened horse

> approach him -- just in time to get galloping away back to Ape City
> to warn Ursus, each second getting further and further out-of-range
> of the Mutants' illusions.
>
> Patrick
>

> I have just uploaded the final 5 John Bolton
> pictures, from the UK
> annuals, to the files section.
>
> These ones were the last of the pictures spread over
> 2 pages and were by
> far the most difficult to put together with a couple
> needing quite a lot
> of 'restoration' to get them matched up seamlessly.
>
> Neil
>
>

> I got me a foam face when Battle was featuring in
> the Curtis mags.
>
>
>
> My cousin bit a chunk out of it and my aunt bought
> me another.
>
>
>
> I kept both and would you believe, after I sold the
> bitten one, Neil Foster
> ended up buying it on eBay!
>
>
>
> Small world….
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Graham Hill
> Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2007 5:31 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Apes stuff available
>
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster"
> <ntfoster@...> wrote:
> >
> > -- Well we didn't have that much around Bury where
> I lived either, the
> > Uk comics of course as well as the UK Annuals, the
> board game, a few
> > (but nowhere near all) of the Mego/Palitoy figures
> and various masks
> > (mostly unofficial ones though), most of the
> paperbacks and a foam face
> > finger puppet. Oh and the TV show cards, but they
> stopped getting them
> > in long before I could get the whole set!
> >
>
> >
> > Neil
> >
>
> I remember slightly more around Manchester (As Neil
> will know, the nearest
> city to Bury, where he lived.)
>
> One favourite was the UK poster mag,
>
> The uk wrapping paper which doubled up as another
> poster was cool.
>
> I did have the plastic rings produced in the uk ( 5
> in the set, I had 2 sets
> because I nicked me brothers) but could only get
> these from a dodgey market
> stall in Failsworth (Rough Suburb or inner city /
> mini- Beirut of
> Manchester) again probably remaindered stock.
>
> Sadly gone to land fill many years ago :(
>

>
>
> The only place I could get the US comic at the time
> was another market town
> near by , Oldham, then it was just for the first 2
> issues.
>
> (I bought #2 first, they had both, thinking it was
> #1 because it had the
> cover of POTA weekly #1, pestered my mother for a
> whole week to go back so I
> could buy the first one.)
>
> As you point out Neil just a drop in the ocean
> compared to America and as
> mentioned I think a lot of stuff that did turn up
> was remaindered stock so
> only in small quanties.
>
> Best Graham.
>
> P.S oh the foam face puppets a new one on me !!!
>
>
>
>

> Yeah this is it Neil.
>
>
>
> You are right - not a fan club.
>
>
>
> Absolutely NO POTA fan I know got one of these or
> has seen any of it (except
> the 44 page comics of course!).
>
>
>
> It has generated a fair amount of collectible
> interest.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Neil Foster
> Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2007 11:20 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Apes stuff available
>
>
>
> -- I think you are referring to this aren't you:
>
>
>
> Wasn't exactly a 'club' though.
>
>
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> mwhitty
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 11:02 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Apes stuff available
>
> you'll find there was some kinda POTA club in Aus
> and you got a WRITING PAD
> when you joined!
>
>

> -- This is the foam face finger puppet thing Graham:
>
>
>
> There were other ones around at the same time, I
> also had Laurel and
> Hardy ones as well.
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Graham Hill
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:31 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Apes stuff available
>
>
>
>
> P.S oh the foam face puppets a new one on me !!!
>
>
> .
>
>

>

>
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "nlmoxham" <neilmoxham@...> wrote:

Yeah, that makes sense to me. But do you think they might have
deliberately let him go back to the city as a warning not to mess
with the Forbidden Zone, rather than him escaping? Or would they have
known that that would provoke, rather than frighten, Ursus?
--------------------------------------------------------------

*** As the Negro says to Brent and Taylor: "We get our enemies to
kill each other." When unwanted outsiders intrude on their territory,
the Mutants view them as Enemies and proceed to have them killed. The
only exception to this, I think, is when they take Taylor yet leave
Nova all alone on the horse. Why didn't they abduct her, too?

Perhaps they can tell, telepathically, that she is not a threat to
them. After all, the mute "animal" humans have existed nearby for
many centuries -- even venturing out into the desert at times, as
when we caught glimpses of them while Taylor, Dodge, and Landon were
making their way to the spot where they first sighted the Scarecrows.
It may very well be that they don't consider the savages to be worth
bothering about.

Recall that when the Negro is forcing Taylor and Brent to fight each
other, Nova is elsewhere, being conducted to some other part of
their 'prison' facility in the lower levels of Grand Central
Terminal. If they had considered her to be another of their enemies,
why didn't he have her put into Taylor's cage when Brent was put in?
He could've forced the two men to kill Nova first and THEN proceed to
kill each other.

Yet they didn't; earlier, when they forced Brent to try to drown her,
though, that does seem as if they were intent on having her die...
unless they were "testing" their abilities on Brent, to ascertain how
manipulatable he was: by having him try to drown Nova, they could see
how helpless he would be when brought before the Five for his
interrogation. For all they know, Brent could be an even more
powerful Telepath than Mendez... so it would be in their interest to
test his "esper" strength in some way. When they discover that they
CAN manipulate him telepathically, they compel him to move away from
Nova, into the Cathedral -- where he is eventually met by two Guards,
who escort him to his interrogation.

The situation is different, though, for the 12 gorilla scouts. After
interrogating some of them, they forced 'em to crucify each other
until there was just one of 'em left uncrucified. And, quite frankly,
I just can't imagine them thinking that it'd be a good idea to just
let him go... so he can go tell Ursus what a bunch of vicious
bastards they are. Like you said, they would've known that Ursus
would be PROVOKED by any heads-up that last scout could give them
regarding his horrifying experiences.

As it is, the nasty treatment they mete out to those gorillas comes
back to bite 'em in the ass. When that 12th gorilla gets away, even
though he is too devastated to talk about the crucifixions, he IS
able to describe the Huge Walls of Fire and Strange, Violent
Earthquakes. And it is based on this report that Ursus concludes that
he had been subjected to "unsimian torture", causing him to have "his
mind gone... shattered".

As much as a 'villain' as Ursus is made out to be (Zira calls him
a "rabble-rouser fomenting a senseless military ADVENTURE"), who can
blame him for wanting to get payback for what "they" (whoever "they"
might be) had done to his missing scouts... AND to the lone survivor
who has lost his mind? How DARE they mistreat his scouts!!! After
all, those gorillas weren't invading their homes -- they were merely
scouting out the territory. The Mutants COULD have just stayed
indoors in their underground domain, and those 12 gorillas on the
surface would never have known they were there -- not unless they had
found the entrance to the Queenboro Plaza station, or some other
access point. Even so, the Mutants -- if they had been smarter --
could've used their Illusion powers to make the gorillas see huge yet
NONEXISTENT boulders covering those cave-entrances, and thus remain
oblivious to the presence of those "subterranean passages" that are
later discovered by other Scouts (the ones looking for Brent and
Nova).

Nope. The Mutants went out of their way to abduct some of those
intruders snooping about on the surface. Then they went out of their
way to have them tortured and killed (crucifixion being a rather
torturous way to die -- the word "excruciating" literally denoting
the torment experienced "from the cross" [ex crucis]). And I just
can't see them letting the 12th one go free. It had to have been a
lucky escape.

Another thing to think about: NONE of this would've happened if it
hadn't been for the appearance of Taylor (and his 2 fellow
astronauts) at the cornfield Hunt location. When Landon was
discovered by one (or more?) of the Hunt Club gorillas to be able to
Talk, Zaius got all worked up... "Something's bothering him," Zira
says to Cornelius. Evidently, nobody in Ape City was able to see
Taylor's ship make its descent through the atmosphere; so, when a
talking human (Landon) appeared, Zaius began wondering if he and
perhaps others had traveled towards the Hunt area from another jungle
beyond the Forbidden Zone.

It is, undoubtedly, this possibility which caused Zaius and/or Ursus
to have a team of Scouts make a survey of the Forbidden Zone. I
suspect that these gorillas would be "in the know" regarding the
Terrible Secret -- they probably were members of the Hunt Club and
had heard Landon jibbering in fear after he awakened from
unconsciousness. Unlike most of the citizens of Ape City, these
gorillas were given the task of "culling the herd" ("Let him [Man]
not breed in great numbers..."), knowing that Man was potentially a
lot more dangerous than the mere 'animal' that most apes were
acquainted with.

So, it is in response to the sudden appearance of Taylor, Landon and
Dodge which prompts the sending out of those Scouts. Ultimately, this
is what got the ball rolling, setting those two populations -- Ape
and Mutant -- on their collision course.

If only Zaius and/or the President of the Academy could've put his
hairy foot down and insisted that NO ape ever venture out into the
Forbidden Zone, not even those Scouts, lest a violation of
the "ancient taboo" create even worse problems than the one posed by
the presence of Bright Eyes. If Ursus had been denied the opportunity
to send a team of Scouts out into the Zone, then there never would've
been an "incident" to take advantage of.

Also, if only Mendez XXVI could've maintained access to his earliest
memories... the memories, especially, of his FIRST lifetime, when he
specifically endeavoured to lead his San Simian survivors as far away
from Caesar's domains as possible, to avoid the future conflict that
was "prophesied" to culminate in the detonation of the Doomsday Bomb.
But, alas, Mendez XXVI has seemingly forgotten his earliest memories,
including the reason they moved kit-and-kaboodle across the entire
continent way back when.

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> great Neil! Thanks!
>
> TIm
>
> --- Neil Foster <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> > I have just uploaded the final 5 John Bolton
> > pictures, from the UK
> > annuals, to the files section.
> >
> > These ones were the last of the pictures spread over
> > 2 pages and were by
> > far the most difficult to put together with a couple
> > needing quite a lot
> > of 'restoration' to get them matched up seamlessly.
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwhitty
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:07 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] The elusive Aussie survival kit.....

Yeah this is it Neil.

You are right – not a fan club.

Absolutely NO POTA fan I know got one of these or has seen any of it (except the 44 page comics of course!).

It has generated a fair amount of collectible interest…

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:38 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Apes stuff available

Oh! I 've seen these on ebay but always thought they
were rip off items...these are real licensed POTA
items?

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nlmoxham
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 6:43 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Final John Bolton UK annual pictures.

These look great Neil. I can see how much work they took by looking
back at originals. I remember reading that one of the stories in the
annuals was done by someone other than John Bolton, did Bolton do all
the other illustrations though?

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:37 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] The elusive Aussie survival kit.....

so there are no pics of the bumper stickers anywhere?

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hill
Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:31 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Apes stuff available

I remember slightly more around Manchester (As Neil will know, the nearest city to Bury, where he lived.)

One favourite was the UK poster mag,

The uk wrapping paper which doubled up as another poster was cool.

.

> Did you see the one Neil loaded to group files?
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Friday, 22 June 2007 1:36 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Foam Face
>
>
>
> what does a "foam face" look like?
>
> Tim
>
> --- mwhitty <mwhitty@optusnet.
> <mailto:mwhitty%40optusnet.com.au> com.au>
> wrote:
>
> > I got me a foam face when Battle was featuring in
> > the Curtis mags.
> >
> >
> >
> > My cousin bit a chunk out of it and my aunt bought
> > me another.
> >
> >
> >
> > I kept both and would you believe, after I sold
> the
> > bitten one, Neil Foster
> > ended up buying it on eBay!
> >
> >
> >
> > Small world..
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.
> <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com
> > [PotaDG@yahoogroups.
> <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com] On
> Behalf Of
> > Graham Hill
> > Sent: Thursday, 21 June 2007 5:31 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.
> <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Apes stuff available
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.
> <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Neil
> Foster"
> > <ntfoster@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > -- Well we didn't have that much around Bury
> where
> > I lived either, the
> > > Uk comics of course as well as the UK Annuals,
> the
> > board game, a few
> > > (but nowhere near all) of the Mego/Palitoy
> figures
> > and various masks
> > > (mostly unofficial ones though), most of the
> > paperbacks and a foam face
> > > finger puppet. Oh and the TV show cards, but
> they
> > stopped getting them
> > > in long before I could get the whole set!
> > >
> >
> > >
> > > Neil
> > >
> >
> > I remember slightly more around Manchester (As
> Neil
> > will know, the nearest
> > city to Bury, where he lived.)
> >
> > One favourite was the UK poster mag,
> >
> > The uk wrapping paper which doubled up as another
> > poster was cool.
> >
> > I did have the plastic rings produced in the uk (
> 5
> > in the set, I had 2 sets
> > because I nicked me brothers) but could only get
> > these from a dodgey market
> > stall in Failsworth (Rough Suburb or inner city /
> > mini- Beirut of
> > Manchester) again probably remaindered stock.
> >
> > Sadly gone to land fill many years ago :(
> >
> <http://us.i1.
>

> yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/tsmileys2/02.gif>
> >
> >
> > The only place I could get the US comic at the
> time
> > was another market town
> > near by , Oldham, then it was just for the first 2
> > issues.
> >
> > (I bought #2 first, they had both, thinking it was
> > #1 because it had the
> > cover of POTA weekly #1, pestered my mother for a
> > whole week to go back so I
> > could buy the first one.)
> >
> > As you point out Neil just a drop in the ocean
> > compared to America and as
> > mentioned I think a lot of stuff that did turn up
> > was remaindered stock so
> > only in small quanties.
> >
> > Best Graham.
> >
> > P.S oh the foam face puppets a new one on me !!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>

> -- One of the bumper stickers did come up for sale
> on ebay a couple of
> years ago. I did bid on it but of course it ended up
> going for some
> horrendous amount which was way over what I could
> afford.
>
> I was sure I kept a picture of it but can't seem to
> find it. If it turns
> up I'll pass it along.
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of mwhitty
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:07 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] The elusive Aussie survival
> kit.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yeah this is it Neil.
>
>
>
> You are right - not a fan club.
>
>
>
> Absolutely NO POTA fan I know got one of these or
> has seen any of it
> (except the 44 page comics of course!).
>
>
>
> It has generated a fair amount of collectible
> interest.
>
> .
>
>

>

>
>
>
>

> -- Found it!
>
>
>
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 1:37 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] The elusive Aussie survival
> kit.....
>
>
>
> so there are no pics of the bumper stickers
> anywhere?
>
>
> .
>
>

>

>
>
>
>

> -- Oops forgot all about the poster mag! I never saw
> the wrapping paper
> though I know it must have been around somewhere, I
> probably just missed
> it. We definitely never had any of the US
> comics/magazines near us, I
> would have given my right arm for them if I had seen
> any!
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Graham Hill
> Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:31 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Apes stuff available
>
>
>
>
> I remember slightly more around Manchester (As Neil
> will know, the
> nearest city to Bury, where he lived.)
>
> One favourite was the UK poster mag,
>
> The uk wrapping paper which doubled up as another
> poster was cool.
>
> .
>
>

>

>
>
>
>

Hey, Mike,

You asked about those APES FLICKS posts I had done before that Yahoo group disappeared. Well, JamesA1102 from the original POTA group somehow had them stored somewhere; he emailed 'em to me, saying: "I heard you were looking for copies of some of your posts from the Ape_Flicks Group." That was rather nice of him, so I've sent him a Thank-You email in reply. The posts are cut-and-pasted below...

=========================================

--- zasco1957 <Zasco1957@. ..> wrote:

Apester friends, I have another question for you.

Can anyone make a timeline of the Mendez Dynasty, circa from the time of BATTLE to BENEATH (the early 21st century to 3978)?

What I would like to know is just how many years each Mendez ruled...when they began and when they were replaced by a newer leader?

When exactly they left California for New York, in those transport
tubes, taking the AO Bomb with them? And just exactly how long it
took them to traverse the country? How the mutants of NYC accepted them? That would be an interesting story for someone to create.
Thanks, Zach

=============================================

Then somebody (the post James emailed to me doesn't indicate who) posted this:

The concept makes absolutely no sense. Who said there were 'intercontinental' travel tunnels? What is this, Genesis II? (a dang good movie by the way). Half of the mutant population couldn't
crawl out of their beds, they were so sick from radiation poisioning.
For that matter, there are no missile silos in NY State, so where did
the AO bomb come from anyhow? More likely it was being transported via Conrail to the midwest to be installed when the Ape rebellion happened and the mutants found it abandoned on a side rail somewhere on Manhattan's West Side, which makes much more sense.

=========================================

Then Shane Miller posted this:

I agree, I think that would be a really cool concept.

I believe that the 'bomb' could have been taken cross country
somehow, perhaps via the 'tubes' that were described. People
shouldn't be so harsh on the plausibility of all of it, I think the
concept is really neat and lets the mind think of all sorts of
scenarios.

==========================================

Then I posted this:

Re: Mendez' timeline...
Posted by: "patrickmichaeltilton" Tue May 22, 2007 2:15 am (PST)

Here's my take on the Mendez lineage, the Bomb-transportings, etc.

Mendez XXVI (i.e. the 26th) dies in 3955, on "Doomsday" (the 3978
date Taylor sees on the EARTH-TIME clock just before his ANSA ship sinks represents the Earth-Time date BEFORE the Orion mission, 320
lightyears away from Earth, zipped through Hyperspace back to Earth the entire 320 lightyears going BACKWARDS THROUGH TIME, from 11-25-3978 to 07-01-3955, due to the fact that the activation of the ANSA "Emergency Homing Device" on a ship which warps through the singularity of a Black Hole causes the warpfield to propagate along a negative Time direction relative to the flow of Time in the Universe, i.e. it's like an Electron turning into its antimatter equivalent, a Positron, which is the same thing but traveling along the same "virtual path" through Time in the opposite direction; this is the same thing that happens to Virdon's ship, which Timewarps AHEAD from 1980 to the EARTH-TIME date 07-14-3085 and then zips through Hyperspace from Alpha Centauri back to Earth going BACKWARDS through Time to arrive at their crash-landing on the EARTH-TIME date 03-21-3085. Both ANSA ships have gone backwards through Earth-Time at the same rate, about 26.5 days of NEGATIVE Earth-Time per lightyear).

So, BENEATH takes place NOT in 3978 but in 3955, and BATTLE takes place in 2018, "twenty-seven years" after Mandemus had been put in charge of the Guns that Caesar's revolutionary group had acquired in CONQUEST, in 1991.

Subtracting 2018 from 3955 gives us 1,937 years, the time it takes
for those 26 generations of Mendezes to happen.

In my scenario, the "Mendez" in BATTLE is Mendez the First (Mendez
I), and Alma is pregnant with Kolp's unborn child at the end of the
film, when Mendez persuades her to begin to "venerate" the Bomb.
Mendez had sought to depopulate the ruined city of all the
warmongering types -- virtually goading Kolp on, with subliminal
telepathic 'nudges', into leaving with his rag-tag army to attack
Caesar's city. In doing this, he merely reinforced a deep-seated
desire of Kolp's... knowing that he HAD to do this in order to keep
Kolp well away from the Doomsday Bomb's trigger-device. Mendez wants the Bomb to NEVER be detonated, though for some odd reason he never seeks to dismantle it, to render it incapable of ever being blown up.

As an emergent telepath, Mendez cannot stand to be in the vicinity of people who seethe with hatred; Mendez wants to rule a society
of "peaceful people" who never kill their enemies... As the "Negro"
in BENEATH tells Brent and Taylor, they get their enemies to kill
each other, preserving the "Divine Bomb" as a "holy weapon of peace".

After Kolp is dead... after Alma's mind has been telepathically
pushed into the insanity of Bomb-worship. .. Mendez goes to the
ARCHIVES section in order to see what it is that Caesar and his
friends had been so eager to see -- and he plays back the tape that
they had been watching before they had had to flee from Kolp's
approaching troops: the footage of the Ape-onaut parents, who reveal that they had seen the planet Earth destroyed while they were in orbit, after the instigation of "the Gorillas' war" -- in the year "3950" (as Caesar hears his mother's taped voice state, she having left off the "... something... " -- which we know is the number "FIVE", giving the full and ACCURATE date of "3955").

Mendez, knowing that two living eye-witnesses to the destruction of
the entire world had travelled backwards through Time, from a date he assumes is "3950" to the year 1973, knows that the only kind of
weapon which could conceivably cause that destruction is the very
Doomsday Bomb which he currently has propped up in its "silo" at the old APE MANAGEMENT building.

How can he possibly prevent the detonation -- in the Future -- of
that Bomb?

Answer: Move it as far away as possible from its current location in
the now-desert area south of Caesar's "Ape City" -- which he presumes (falsely, it turns out) to be the SAME area where Cornelius and Zira
had to have lived in the 40th Century. Mendez (and/or some other
people) had brought the Doomsday Bomb TO Breck's city after the
events of CONQUEST and before the events of BATTLE from SOMEWHERE... probably through underground military tunnels. A 1995 book by Richard Sauder, Ph.D., titled "UNDERGROUND BASES AND TUNNELS: What is the government trying to hide?" is chock full of information about the U.S. government's long-term plans throughout the Cold War to build military facilities impregnable to Soviet nuclear attacks, connected by tunnels chewed out by tunnelling machines such as the nuclear-powered tunneling machine patented by the U.S. Government in 1972 [Patent #3,693,731] or some such similar gizmo.

The Doomsday Bomb hadn't been in Breck's city during the events of
the Ape Revolt -- it had to have been brought there AFTERWARD, from some other location, most probably a U.S. military base. It would make sense, then, if Mendez wanted to put as much room in-between his community of radiation-scarred Human survivors and Caesar's Ape-society, for him to lead his people (with their Divine Bomb) back into those military tunnels... back towards whatever subsurface military base it had come from and, hopefully, BEYOND it -- all the way as far Eastward, away from California, as they could possibly go.

When they get to the New York City region, they must have made use of tunneling machines since in BENEATH we see ample evidence that they used them to dig those cylindrical tunnels through the rock that had been deposited after NYC had gotten nuked. We see Brent and Nova make their way through those air-vent ducts, to emerge right outside the front steps of the New York Public Library.

Mendez would also want to ensure that just in case their new
territory were to be invaded by Apes who might (perhaps) migrate from California to New York in the far future, that he be present at that future date. In my scenario, Mendez I does this by "hijacking" the brain of the baby growing in Alma's womb. Think of it as a kind
of "possession" -- the mind of Mendez I taking over the brain of that
preborn baby, imprinting his own thoughts and memories onto it.

The only problem, though, is that Alma -- by having been surreptitiously telepathically manipulated by him earlier -- is now also a burgeoning telepath... and she has 'infected' the developing mind of her fetus, so that the baby -- when it is ultimately born -- will be a mental hybrid: as Mendez II it will have inherited the telepathically-transmitted memories of Mendez I, but it will also have acquired a genuine veneration for the Doomsday Bomb.

Over the course of the next 25 generation, each "Mendez" will
effectively reincarnate by taking Possession (telepathically) of a
chosen Child, to maintain its own life -- but each time he does this,
he "remembers" things imperfectly, owing to the telepathic influence
of the pregnant mothers. By the time he becomes Mendez XXVI, he has lost many of his oldest memories and, instead, has come to believe a warped view of history nurtured by the insane religion that Mendez II inherited from its deranged mother, Alma.

Mendez II is born sometime in the year 2019, and each subsequent
incarnation lasts (on average) about 77 and a half years, assuming
Mendez I and Mendez XXVI are about the same age (roughly) when they die. The following are average, "ball-park" figures for the lifetimes of the Mendez Dynasty:

Mendez I - "dies" ('reincarnates' ) in 2019, after the arduous journey
from Breck's city of San Simeon to the remains of New York City. To
make the following part of the list 'prettier', I've replaced the
traditional Roman Numerals (i.e. XXVI) with 2-digit numbers (i.e. 02 through 26).

Mendez 02 - [2019-2096]
Mendez 03 - [2096-2174]
Mendez 04 - [2174-2251]
Mendez 05 - [2251-2328]
Mendez 06 - [2328-2406]
Mendez 07 - [2406-2483]
Mendez 08 - [2483-2561]
Mendez 09 - [2561-2638]
Mendez 10 - [2638-2716]
Mendez 11 - [2716-2793]
Mendez 12 - [2793-2871]
Mendez 13 - [2871-2948]
Mendez 14 - [2948-3026]
Mendez 15 - [3026-3103]
Mendez 16 - [3103-3181]
Mendez 17 - [3181-3258]
Mendez 18 - [3258-3336]
Mendez 19 - [3336-3413]
Mendez 20 - [3413-3491]
Mendez 21 - [3491-3568]
Mendez 22 - [3568-3646]
Mendez 23 - [3646-3723]
Mendez 24 - [3723-3801]
Mendez 25 - [3801-3878]
Mendez 26 - [3878-3955]

These dates aren't set-in-stone, by any means. Just a ball-park
figure.

In my scenario, Mendez is able to retain his rulership over the
Mutants over the long-term because he (unlike the others) is a "Master" telepath: he is able to take complete "possession" of another (baby's) mind and perpetuate his own existence indefinitely, whereas no other Mutant can do so under their own less-masterly telepathic powers. But those few (a group of Four) who are most loyal to him are rewarded for their loyalty by being "midwifed" (so to speak) by Mendez when their time comes to "die": that is, Mendez can use his own telepathic abilities to aid another Mutant (such as Albina or Caspay, etc) in their own "reincarnation" . Thus, the Five who interrogate Brent will be long-lived persons who have lived
lifetime-after- lifetime, having done so by the 'sacred' power of
Mendez (whom Caspay refers to as "Holiness" at one point), the power to have what amounts to Life Everlasting. Mendez has it all on his own, but his 4 cohorts have it by the 'grace' of him who grants them similar longevity.

Unfortunately, they too acquire the insanity of Bomb-worshipping
bequeathed to Mendez II by his mother Alma, which she was coerced (telepathically) into acquiring by Mendez I, to keep her from detonating the Bomb on Kolp's orders.

As for the objection that "half of the mutant population couldn't
crawl out of their beds"... well, the harsh reality of it would be
that those invalids would have been left behind. Only the hardiest
among them would be able to make the journey. Think of it as
Darwinian "Survival of the Fittest" at work in a post-Nuke landscape.
Those who are "lucky" to be alive and fit enough to survive in an
irradiated land would have to be fit enough to make the arduous trek
from San Simeon's ruins all the way across the country (underground) in the nuke-proof tunnels far below the surface.

Mind you, this is all my own "take" on this concept. It's not 'canon'
for anybody but me. I think it makes for an exciting and, at times,
scary idea of how the stage for PLANET and BENEATH could have been set. Mendez I learns that the Doomsday Bomb -- IF it remains near the site of Caesar's "Ape City" -- will one day be detonated by somebody living in the year "3950" after a Gorilla Army invades... so he tries to CHANGE that Future by removing the Bomb to a place as far away as possible, through those tunnels delved during the Cold War.

Think about it: Wouldn't Mendez -- at the very least -- be just as
curious as Kolp regarding the PURPOSE of Caesar's trip to the
Archives Section? Kolp, after their escape, was single-mindedly
concerned with getting his own war-machine up-and-moving, so that he could exterminate them before they could return to finish the job
that the Bomb (i.e. the Nuke War) hadn't already finished. Kolp (just
like President George W. Bush) goes to wage a "pre-emptive" war on
Caesar, whom he has every reason to believe might invade his city and kill the survivors he met -- and who attacked them.

Mendez, in his own way, wants PEACE. He doesn't want the Bomb to be detonated -- OR DISMANTLED, it seems. It is to be a Symbol,
representing the force that has (re-)made the Human 'mutants' into
what they now are (via its radiation effects). Something "beautiful"
he says.

But, IF he goes to the Archives and rewinds that tape and watches
what Caesar, MacDonald and Virgil had just watched... then he would know that in a mere 1,932 years (in "3950") the Doomsday Bomb would be triggered, and that would be the END.

UNLESS he takes preventative measures. He thinks that, by uprooting the Mutant community from its home in California and moving it with their Holy Bomb to the New York vicinity, that he can PREVENT that End of the World. He doesn't know that he is actually helping to FULFILL that 'destiny'... that Causality demands that the Bomb be moved to St. Patrick's Cathedral, where a neighboring "Ape City" will LATER be established by Apes who are not so forgiving of Humans as is Caesar.

Mendez would assume -- based on the images of Cornelius and Zira seen in the ARCHIVES -- that Caesar's small society is their direct
ancestor, most probably occupying the SAME area (geographically) in both the 21st Century and the 40th Century. This assumption would prompt him to speculate (perhaps) that whoever might be living in the NYC area after the Nuke War, it wouldn't be a society of Apes who wear the exact same clothing styles he's seen Caesar wearing -- and which his parents-from- the-Future would also be wearing.

I'll leave it at that for now.

Patrick

===========================================

Tue May 22, 2007 3:28 am (PST)
Wow! That's awesome! I knew that if anyone could do it, you could, Patrick... thanks!

Zach

===========================================

--- peter_karsten63 peter_karsten63@ yahoo.com. au wrote:

Hi There,

Interesting Mendez Timeline...but. ..

Please tell my how a baby Mendez can inherit the responsibility of being the keeper of the faith i.e. the bomb?

Surely he is too young... don't you think?

Regards.

Peter.

========================================

From: Apes_Flicks@yahoogroups.com
To: Apes_Flicks@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 10:48 AM
Subject: [Apes_Flicks] Digest Number 423

Re: Mendez' timeline...Question.
Posted by: "Patrick Tilton" Wed May 30, 2007 3:33 am (PST)

In answer to your post, it is only the BODY of the baby -- of each successive baby -- that is young. Mendez I exerts a kind of "humanic possession" (via his telepathic abilities) on the brain of the infant,
forcing his own personality to "tape record over" the nascent unformed personality that would otherwise develop.

It's as if Mendez is making single photocopies of his own Mind... and tossing out the original. The guy we see in BENEATH is named Mendez XXVI -- he's the 25th copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy... going all the way back to Mendez I. But
the overarching flaw with his scheme to endure throughout some 26 generations until the date of Doomsday is that the COPY version is not an EXACT copy. It inherits certain flaws, such as certain
telepathic "static" that is encoded on the child-brain by contact with its mother (Alma, in the first "transmigration" event).

Mendez I did not worship the Bomb -- but he telepathically tweaked the minds of the wretches around him to do so (including, especially, Alma -- in order to sway her from detonating the Bomb, in
fulfillment of Kolp's final order).

When Mendez I decides to take advantage of the opportunity afforded him by Alma's pregnancy -- the opportunity to "hijack" the brain of her baby and imprint his own Mind, his own Memories onto it -- he does so intending to be the "same" person he was before, just in a new (infant) body...

... but something happens that he doesn't expect, and that he isn't even consciously AWARE is happening. The mind of the baby who will grow up to be known as Mendez II (the Second, NOT the eleventh) is only MOSTLY comprised of the memories and personality of Mendez I. An idiosyncratic portion of the emergent
personality of Mendez II will be "mentally infected" by prenatal exposure to the insanity Mendez I forced on Alma: her telepathically- forced worship of the Bomb.

Mendez I didn't worship the Bomb, and he didn't intend to worship it in his new "incarnation" ... but he wound up doing so anyway, not knowing that it wouldn't be a pure, 100% accurate, digital bit-for-bit copy of HIS mind into the brain of the new baby's brain.

The baby, Mendez II, will be born remembering virtually all of what Mendez I knew... but some memories will be lost-in-transit, and whatever IS copied over will be distorted cognitively by the
funhouse lens of Alma's insanity during the prenatal telepathic connection of Mother-and-Son.

Mendez (from that point on, as Mendez the 2nd, the 3rd, the 4th, etc etc) will lose ever more of his original memories, remembering whatever he DOES remember IMPERFECTLY, those memories having been corrupted by his initial telepathically- induced
Bomb-worship "meme". As a master telepath, he will have the ability to control the very thoughts of his mutant community, not knowing that his first Mind Control act made him just as mad as Alma and the
others, once he made the "jump" from his old Mendez I body into the fetal brain of the child begotten by Kolp on Alma, Mendez II.

Imagine an infant who doesn't need to spend years learning how to speak or read or learn... he's BORN knowing (almost) everything he ALREADY knew. Although his infant voice box & larynx aren't able to VOCALLY express his thoughts, his TELEPATHIC MIND can "meme" the words/sentences/ thoughts into other peoples' brains (like when the Mutant Inquisitors 'nod' at Brent -- we in the audience hearing a Tone -- so that Brent "hears" complete sentences transmitted telepathically. "Your lips... they don't move..."

Baby Mendez II is born with a (slightly altered) ADULT MIND. His BODY is "young"... but his telepathic abilities make him more than a match for anybody around him. If somebody thought that he was some sort of abomination, and wanted to kill him... all he would
have to do is inflict some "Traumatic Hypnosis" on him, like the "Visual Deterrent" or the "Sonic Deterrent" -- or, we might imagine, a "Nasal Deterrent", the smell of ass and catfood, for
instance.

Or, Baby Mendez II or III or IV (etc) could just "possess" the would-be assassin the same way the "Negro" mutant could force Brent to try to drown Nova, or Brent and Taylor to fight each other. Imagine a
mutant forcing you to pick up a dagger and plunge it into your own guts... or put out your own eyes...

It would be in Mendez' best interests (in his mind, anyway) to get his people to deem him almost as important as the Bomb they worship. Evidently, this is what he does, since Caspay refers to him as "Holiness" as if he's a true 'Pope' endowed with 'papal infallibility' . Thus, his people would not turn against him, having been brain-washed into deeming him the Head Honcho of the Keepers of the Divine Bomb.

Until, that is, some NEW mutation (perhaps) crops up in the "meme"-pool. .. Like, for instance, a mental immunity to telepathic signals inflicted from the brain of another -- even from a 'Master telepath'.
Imagine a mutant, say, in 3955... when ANSA spaceships begin landing in their territory, with the Thoughts of pre-maddened human personalities impinging on the mutants' minds... imagine one particular mutant perhaps having been born with the ability to shield
his or her own mind from any 'tampering' by the brainiacs in the Top Five, or any other mutant, for that matter. Imagine such a mutant being able to read the thoughts of all the others -- even the 'Master
telepath', Mendez XXVI -- when the others are sleeping (and vulnerable). .. and dredging up from the subconscious mind LONG-FORGOTTEN memories, or hints of memories... thoughts & images predating the horrid moment when Mendez I infected Alma's mind (and that of her unborn son, whom he would 'hijack') with the
Bomb-worshipping IDEA...

Maybe such a telepath -- a further mutated Mutant -- could acquire a truer and saner notion of Reality than the messed-up one that had held sway over their community for nearly 1,936 years. Such a telepath might BETTER remember those memories that Mendez
himself can't recall clearly, due to the madness he's inherited, generation after generation. Maybe Mendez XXVI suffers from a variant of Alzheimer's Syndrome, but one which affects the OLDER memories rather than the NEWER ones.

Just a thought...

Patrick

============================================

Fri May 25, 2007 7:51 pm (PST)

--- In Apes_Flicks@ yahoogroups. com, "Scott" <renfield_eats_ flies@... > wrote:

Now that kicked ass. I loved the way you told it. I would love to
hear a timeline of the Zaius family.

=============================================

Then I wrote in reply:

*** Here's my bare-bones summary of the 'Zaius' lineage.

In 1991 [CONQUEST], Caesar -- as he's going through his experiences
at APE MANAGEMENT prior to the Auction where Breck purchases him -- is selected to be the male chimp who is to inseminate the female chimp who had just arrived there (along with two female gorillas).

Thus, years before Caesar begat his Heir (named Cornelius after the
boy's grandfather) with Lisa, he had begotten ANOTHER child -- his
FIRSTBORN child -- on this unnamed female chimpanzee.

In my scenario, that boy would eventually be named PROTEUS, and the line from the 13th scroll of the SACRED SCROLLS would refer to him.

For years, Caesar didn't acknowledge kinship with that firstborn
chimp. But... after Aldo murders young Prince Cornelius and he
(Caesar) is without an Heir for the Ape throne, Proteus -- now a 26-
year-old adult chimpanzee -- is brought forth, and his mother claims
that CAESAR is the father. If the "blood" of Caesar is so important --
and, remember, Caesar (at the end of CONQUEST)promised/threatened that the Apes would found their own DYNASTY -- then wouldn't his firstborn son have a "rightful" claim to Caesar's throne?

Perhaps he would... but they are in no condition to PROVE that
Proteus is the son of Caesar. The only high-tech stuff they have is
the Geiger Counter and the Weapons in Mandemus' Armory. They don't have any way to verify that the DNA of Proteus comes patrilineally from Caesar.

Though everybody can see that there is a family resemblance between Caesar and Proteus, Caesar knows that Proteus does NOT share his own forgiving attitude towards Humans... Proteus, though he doesn't approve of Aldo's act of murder, shared Aldo's hatred of Humans. Caesar, not wishing to entrust the Ape-and-Human community to somebody whom he KNEW would be an anti-human tyrant, refuses to ACKNOWLEDGE Proteus as his own child. He effectively keeps him in the status of an illegitimate/ bastard child.

Within a year or so of the end of his life (in 2068, some 50 years
after the events of BATTLE), there having been no emergent threat
from the Forbidden City, Caesar secretly has the Guns in the Armory
DESTROYED. He knows that the world will be destroyed (in "3950") by an ARMED Gorilla army that invades the territory next-door to Ape City -- though he does NOT know that these events will actually
transpire on the other side of the continent, near-and-in the New York City region. To prevent the Gorilla army of that distant date
from being able to wage a war with Guns, Caesar DESTROYS the Guns, hoping that nobody will ever be able to RE-INVENT the Gun.

The response to this unilateral act of Gun-Control is mixed. The
chimpanzees and orangutans and humans (for the most part) are GLAD that he did this. But the gorillas and SOME of the chimps and
orangutans are OUTRAGED that he did this -- especially without
putting it to a vote.

This is the last straw for the Gorillas. They secede from Caesar's "Ape City" civilization and set out to find some other livable area. And they are joined by PROTEUS (who, by then, is 76 years old) but NOT by his wife and children. Proteus' wife and children are "peaceniks" like Caesar, agreeing with his decision.

Proteus, before he leaves with the Gorillas, urges Caesar -- for the
sake of decency -- to admit that he is his father, that the sons and
daughters of Proteus are Caesar's (illegitimate) grandchildren.

And Caesar, finally, admits this... but he does so by declaring that
the Kingship died with Cornelius. There will be no Ape dynasty to
rule when Caesar himself dies.

Thus, Proteus leaves "Ape City" with the Gorillas, some like-minded
chimps and orangutans, AND with an ape named ZAIUS, who particularly hates Man. This secession Departure happens, then, in 2068 to 2069.

The secessionists venture across the continent, ekeing out a life
over the course of many generations. In the year 2670, the society
Caesar left under the care of a pro-Equality "Lawgiver" (perhaps
Virgil or the son of Virgil), has maintained its culture and
traditions, with Chimps and Orangutans living in relative peace with
the Humans dwelling among them -- but with NO GORILLAS present in the community. In 2670, however, the Secessionists have been living a semi-barbarous life, having had to resort to Carnivorism in order to survive. But then... a fortuitous event happens for them. They discover a book titled "THE MORON'S GUIDE TO GUNS AND AMMO"... and they, then, learn the long-lost science and art of Gunsmithing.

They re-invent the Gun.

Less than a century later, the Gorilla group (led by a Warlord who
wears the traditional regalia of General Aldo AND a specially-
designed HELMET bearing a variation on the same GLYPH that is seen on the circular "poncho" of the General's uniform) invades the territory where Caesar's people's descendants live. The peaceful Lawgiver is divested of his status, and a NEW ape takes over as "Lawgiver" -- having also RE-WRITTEN HISTORY in such a way as to deny that Man ever once had a "superior" civilization. Written into the new scripture is the notion that God created the APE in His image, set him apart from the beasts of the jungle, and made him the lord of the planet.

The date is 2755 A.D., twelve hundred years before the events of
PLANET and BENEATH.

From this point on, Man is re-enslaved, forced to live a slave's life
in Apedom or a vagabond's life outside the zone of habitability.

The descendants of Proteus -- those who were raised to be pro-Caesar and pro-Equality between Ape and Man -- know that they carry within them the Blood of Caesar... presumably, they have a "right" to Rule the community. They are accorded the status of a privileged aristocracy (out of the deference the gorillas feel towards Proteus himself, who sided with them against his own human-loving father), but they are DENIED the "right" to rule... and they are told, in no uncertain terms, that if they should ever CLAIM that right, they will be dealt with harshly.

So... over the course of the next 3 centuries, the descendants of
Proteus' line dwell in the Ape civilization centered (now) on CENTRAL CITY, holding positions of authority throughout the known world (as Prefects of towns like Chalo, etc). But their family history is kept a secret from all the rest of the Apes (presumably) , and is passed on -- father-to-son -- in an initiation rite at each coming-of-age.

But in 3085, when GALEN comes-of-age, his father Yalu does a favor
for the head of the High Council (Chief Councillor Zaius, the
descendant of the 'Zaius' who left with Proteus and the Gorillas in
2068)... Yalu promises Zaius that he WON'T initiate Galen into his
own family history -- which would involve informing him of the 'heretical' Truth of the Past (the former Human civilization; the
story of the Ape-onauts and their son, the Savior, King Caesar; the
story of his bastard child Proteus, etc).

Instead, as payback for this favor Zaius owes Yalu, Zaius takes Galen
on to be his personal assistant. Galen, a young ape in his mid-
twenties, doesn't know the nature of the favor his father did for
Zaius; he only knows that a favor was done, and that he owes his
sudden rise in status to it.

But, when Galen is accused of MURDER -- the murder of Urko's
lieutenant, who had attempted to assassinate the Astronauts -- and
when Zaius was prepared to "have poor Galen killed" WITHOUT A TRIAL and without his illustrious parents having any say in the matter, Yalu gets royally PISSED at Zaius.

Over the course of the next several months, Yalu and the secret
society of Royalists who back the notion of a return to a Chimp-led
Monarchy descended from King Caesar get their political machine in
gear... and Yalu gets elected to a position on the High Council,
which he achieves just before the events of "THE INTERROGATION" .

Think of it: the father of a FUGITIVE, an ape accused of MURDERING
another ape, manages to get elected to the High Council! The only way that could happen is if there were some leverage that Yalu had to draw on. Though most apes (even chimps) still have an anti-human bias, they tend to revere the lineage of Caesar IF they know the true history. After all, it was Caesar who led them to their "salvation" from the yoke of slavery under Man.

Yalu, thus, represents a political threat to Zaius and Urko -- a
threat that involves the potential to RE-EDUCATE the society
concerning the TRUE HISTORY of the Apes and of Man. And, since it has been Zaius' primary task to KEEP BURIED that true history
(as "guardian of the terrible secret" in Taylor's words), that makes
this situation particularly troublesome.

Eventually (in my scenario), a full-blown attempted revolution
erupts, with Humans trying to fight for their new-found "rights" and
the pro-Protean royalists trying to get Yalu's line recognized as
the "rightful" Monarchy... and the status quo Gorillas and Orangutans
fighting back with dreadful severity.

Before the year 3085 is over, not only has there been an eruption of
a multi-faceted War of Ape-on-Ape and Apes-versus- Man... but the
three notorious fugitives have disappeared -- shortly before the
miraculous disappearance of the Moon.

In my scenario, Galen will learn of his true family history after the
events of "THE INTERROGATION" -- he will know of it during the events of the next (and last) of the 14 episodes, "THE SURGEON" (my ordering of the episodes is different from the aired order, BTW).

The Fugitives will encounter the lone survivor of the PREVIOUS
crashed spaceship mentioned in the pilot episode. This "astronaut"
character is a pivotal character in my POTA opus. Here's a brief
background of him: he was born as Vaughn Newman in the late 20th
Century, and he was born with a severe birth defect that made him
virtually a cripple (similar to the crippled conditionof Stephen Hawking).  In the 1980's he witnesses the return of an Astronaut who
unwittingly unleashes the PET PLAGUE (in 1983). As a cripple, he has been a test-subject for the emergent science of TELEPRESENCING: the Mind-controlling of remote objects, such as the servo-mechanisms being used to build orbiting space stations and moon bases.

Vaughn Newman is able to live in the L-5 orbiting space colony being built throughout the late 1980's and 1990's, from where he helps to
build additions to the L-5 station and to the lunar bases, his mind
controlling ("possessing" ) a humaniform android's limbs.

When the Nuke War of 2006 erupts, Vaughn Newman -- and I won't go into all the plot details here -- finds himself trapped inside a
humaniform android's synthetic body. His real body is killed, so that
his MIND is trapped inside a logically-designed "computronic" brain.

He becomes, effectively, "immortal" as long as he can rejuice his
power supply every so often.

The astronaut who had unwittingly unleashed the Pet Plague in 1983
eventually became part of the Chain-of-Succession for the Presidency by the year 2004... so that when the Nuke War erupts, and the President, the Vice-President, etc etc, are killed... he becomes the last president of the U.S.A.

Vaughn Newman -- or, the "android" housing the Mind of Vaughn Newman inside it -- knows this astronaut. He knows the entire life-
adventures of this astronaut. The now-President astronaut gives
Vaughn an order: to exert every bit of energy he has to ensure the
safeguarding of the Human Race and of its Science. Prior to becoming President, this astronaut went out of his way to prepare the world
for the Nuclear War he KNEW was going to happen, having those Vaults built and buried in various cities of the world (see "THE LEGACY").

So... Vaughn helps to preserve Man and his science in the post-Nuke
world, by helping to found a "New America" on the one part of the
planet where the radiation levels aren't deadly -- the continent now
known as Australia .

One of the after-effects of the Nuke War is that the crust of the
Earth, having been pounded by the blastwaves, has further liquefied
the Mohorivicic Discontinuity -- the "border" between the Crust and
the Upper Mantle. The result is that the Earth's crust slides around
over the solid subsurface, so that Jerusalem is shifted to the North
Polar position... and the continents of North America, South America, Antarctica, and part of Australia are shifted predominantly into the TROPICS. (This is why the forest near Ape City in PLANET is called, by Zira and Dr. Zaius, a "jungle" -- a TROPICAL rain forest; it's no longer in the TEMPERATE zone, in other words)

Vaughn spearheads a remnant of Jeffersonian rationalist Scientists
who re-settle Australia -- now re-named "NEW AMERICA" -- after all
this devastation has occurred. Over the course of the next half
millennium, they develop a space-faring nation, sending out one
particularly important mission in the year 2500 (and, if you've read
Boulle's source novel, this is NOT a coincidence; mind you, I'm not
including Boulle's novel as part of the "canon" -- I'm just adapting
certain notions from the novel and re-inserting them into this
scenario).

Vaughn (under a different name) is still alive in 2500, of course,
since his android body cannot die. He is the sole survivor when they
land in "Old America" in 3073 -- Urko killing all the others from
that mission.

But Vaughn KNOWS that it's only a matter of time -- 12 years, if
fact -- before another spaceship will land. He knows this because the
astronaut who ordered him to save the Human Race... who had risen to become the last President... who had unwittingly unleashed the Pet Plague in 1983... was none other than COL. ALAN VIRDON. Virdon's hope, to return "home" to his wife and son in the late 20th Century, is to be achieved... and Vaughn will be in position to assist him.

When Virdon's ship pops into Earth orbit after transiting Hyperspace
from Alpha Centauri, Jones is dead and the other two are unconscious. Vaughn, from the long-abandoned ANSA facility he rediscovered about a decade before (c. 3075), REMOTELY-PILOTS Virdon's ship down to its landing near Chalo. Then he awaits Virdon and Burke AND the fugitive chimp Galen, whom he knows will be with them, since a "later" (older) version of Virdon had TOLD him about these "past" personal experiences of his in the Future.

After the last of the 14 episodes, Virdon and his fellow fugitives
will discover Vaughn in that ANSA facility. Vaughn, over the
centuries, has developed a Plan that he thinks can result in the
survival of the Human Race -- even BEYOND the date of Doomsday, which he knows is 3955 A.D. But he believes that the planet Earth cannot be saved. And he knows that Virdon MUST time-travel back to 1983 from 3085 BRINGING THE PLAGUE VIRUS WITH HIM.

So, prior to positioning himself at the ANSA facility in 3085, Vaughn
had spent some of the past 10 years or so using his encyclopedic
knowledge to re-create some DOGS and CATS from surviving genomes (just like the scientists in "JURASSIC PARK" recreated the
dinosaurs).. . so that he could also create the RETROVIRUS that would be able to wipe them out. Vaughn recreates Dogs and Cats, keeping them as test-subjects, and adapts a particular gene shared by the genetic ancestor shared by all Canines and Felines -- a gene
rejiggered to be a Retrovirus capable of being triggered in all
animals containing that gene. The virus is designed to replicate
quickly, to be passed on through respiration (breathed-in) , and to do its damage so fast that in only a month the entire world's population of dogs and cats will be wiped out. And then the virus would effectively die off, too... having been ENGINEERED to do so within a few years.

Vaughn engineers this deadly Canine-Feline virus... and he goes out
to Central City in order to find the son of Travin (a slave human who
works at the hospital under the supervision of Doctor Kira). He
causes this unnamed son of Travin to become infected with the
Retrovirus, knowing that later he would be involved in a hunting
accident and that an experimental Blood Transfusion would be
attempted. The man's sister, Arn, thus becomes infected with the Pet
Plague virus from her doomed brother... and later, her blood helps
save the life of Virdon during the surgery Kira performs on him. But
Virdon becomes INFECTED with this virus, too.

Incidentally, the two dogs seen in the TV show (Arno's "Dog" in the
pilot, and the other dog seen in another episode, briefly) will be
two of the ONLY dogs existing on Earth, having managed to get out of the test-lab where Vaughn kept them, to see if the Plague virus would kill them. Not only did he engineer the virus, but he also engineered
its ANTIDOTE. Arno's dog -- and that other one -- will have been
genetically engineered to be IMMUNE to the virus. But, with no other dogs (of the opposite gender) to mate with, there will not be a re-establishment of the presence of canines on Earth. Arno (traveling from Central City to Chalo, where his father Veska has just gotten
the cushy job as Prefect) will see this human (Vaughn) with this
interesting tame animal -- the "Dog" -- and claim the animal for his
own. Vaughn, as a mere "human", will not be able to own it, so he has
no choice but to allow the Prefect's son to take it from him; Vaughn
tells him that it is a "Dog" -- and Arno assumes that that is the
creature's NAME (see the opening scene of the first TV episode).

Before landing on the planet (with his fellow astronauts) in 3073,
Vaughn had prepared the Moon for a catastrophe he knew HAD to happen (because Virdon, sometime between 1983 and 2006, had told him it would happen, having seen it happen in 3085). He plants a Doomsday Bomb on the Moon, on the Farside location out-of-sight from anybody on Earth.

When Virdon, Burke and Galen encounter him, Vaughn has the Doomsday Bomb triggered. The explosion is not seen from Earth, but the effect is to cause a BLACK HOLE to be created at the center of the
explosion... and that micromass black hole falls towards the center
of the Moon, gobbling up all the matter it encounters. As the mass
increases, the Moon turns molten (the matter falling into the Event Horizon falls so fast that it emits X-rays, which "cook" the rest of
the matter yet to fall into it). The Moon shrinks, its axial rotation
rate going up. Eventually, the ENTIRE mass of the Moon disappears,
collecting at the Singularity forever hidden by the oblate spheroid-
shaped Event Horizon. This "Darkmoon" object will continue to orbit
the Earth once every 29.53 days, but it will never again be able to
eclipse the Sun. However, it WILL gravitationally lens the solar
wind, causing a jet (like a comet's tail) to forever flare out in the
direction away from the Sun. So, when the Darkmoon is at the "New
Moon" position (in syzygy between the Sun and the Earth), the Earth
will be blasted with a jet of ions -- creating a strange THUNDER and
LIGHTNING in the sky but with NO RAIN. Taylor and his fellow
astronauts will see this effect, during their trek across the
Forbidden Zone, on 3 July 3955, a date which WOULD be a Solar Eclipse if it weren't for the fact that the Moon is reduced to a Black Hole.

Back to 3085. Vaughn, having turned the Moon into a Black Hole, knows that it is possible to USE a Black Hole in order to alter a warp
trajectory of a Hassleinian Hyperdrive vehicle INTO THE PAST --
because that's EXACTLY what had happened to the Ape-onaut ship after the Earth had been turned into a Black Hole as a result of Taylor
detonating the Doomsday Bomb in 3955. If the Ape-onauts could
(or "will") use a Black Hole to time-travel BACKWARDS from 3955 to
1973, then Virdon -- who wants to return to "his" time -- can also
use a Black Hole to time-travel back from 3085 to 1983. Vaughn rigs
an ANSA vessel (which he has rebuilt, with the help of industrial
robots he's reactivated) to take Virdon on a journey hyperspatially
through the Event Horizon... through the ring-shaped Singularity of
the spinning "Darkmoon" black hole... knowing that it will spit him
out in the Past, in 1983 -- where he will unwittingly unleash the
Plague he ignorantly carries within him.

That leaves Burke and Galen to deal with. Vaughn eventually fesses up to them that he "tricked" Virdon into fulfilling his wish to
return "home" -- so that the Causality loops created by Time-
Traveling would be resolved. His own memories of an OLDER Virdon
appearing out of nowhere in 1983 DEMAND that the YOUNGER Virdon, in 3085, initiate that back-in-Time voyage.

Burke knows, then, that the Earth is doomed in 3955 -- having been
informed about the history of the world he's missed since his
departure with Virdon and Jones in late 1971. He knows of the Ape-
onauts from the Future... the horrible status that Man that will
endure in the 3900's... the Doomsday event awaiting in 3955.

Burke wants to make an attempt to STOP that from happening. The only way he can do so is if he can somehow skip over the next 800 years or so... time-traveling into the Future, from 3085 to some year near enough to 3955 to give him time to find the Doomsday Bomb and dismantle it, if possible.

Vaughn has done a DNA scan of Galen's genome... and he KNOWS that Galen MUST accompany Burke into the Future. So, he has rigged another ANSA ship so that it can do what Virdon's ship has already done: make a CLOSE-APPROACH to a black hole, so as to experience gravitational acceleration sufficient to DILATE TIME, so that the EARTH-TIME clock clicks ahead faster and faster. Just as Virdon's ship zipped ahead from EARTH-TIME 1980 to 3085, so too will Burke's rigged ship zip ahead from 3085 to... the year 3913.

I'm not gonna give the rest away, just yet.

Suffice to say that Galen's disappearance (with Burke, into the
Future), will effectively END the dynastic line leading from Proteus
to Yalu. All of Galen's other collateral descendants will be through
his MOTHER'S side of the family. An ape named MILO, living in the
3900's, will be a descendant through that matrilinear side... but the
supposed "rightful" ruler-by-blood of the throne of King Caesar will
have "died" back in 3085, when the only son of Yalu disappeared and
had to have been presumed dead.

This, of course, removes permanently the "threat" posed to Zaius by
the Royalist "claim" to power. Zaius' political power will be cemented, then, in the late 31st Century, and will continue on until the date of Doomsday... which Zaius -- who knows the contents of the "Secret Scrolls" long suppressed by his ancestors -- believes will be the year "3950"...

The collateral descendants of Yalu's family will preserve (as "fables") the ancient stories which, of course, are not believed to be literally true -- well, not necessarily.

I'll wrap it up here, for now. I hope you like this, too, if you liked my Mendez Dynasty stuff.

Ciao!

Patrick

==========================================

That's it for those APES FLICKS posts. Just one point, for clarification: the name of the character I've introduced in this last post -- "Vaughn Newman" -- is a riff on the name "John Von Neumann", a famous scientist. The ENCARTA dictionary has this entry for him:

John von Neumann (1903-57) Hungarian-born U.S. mathematician. Working in both pure and applied mathematics, he invented game theory and contributed to the development of the nuclear bomb and early computers. Born Johann von Neumann.

In Arthur C. Clarke's novel "2010: Odyssey Two" the huge Monolith orbiting Jupiter -- the one that Dave Bowman disappeared into near the end of "2001" -- transforms Jupiter into a star. It does it by sucking up matter from Jupiter's atmosphere and then "replicating"... it grows twice as thick and then splits into two equal-sized Monoliths, with each subsequent split-off new Monolith also replicating, so that the number of Monoliths grows exponentially: 1... 2... 4... 8... 16... etc etc. When there are enough of them, the collective of Monoliths acts as a machine to trigger Jupiter's transition into a star. At one point at the end of that novel, one of the astronauts concludes that the Monolith -- at that star-forming phase of its 'life' -- was "a Von Neumann machine". Von Neumann had theorized about large-scale construction projects being done by one "seed" robot which is designed to gather raw materials so as to make copies of itself, each copy also making copies, etc etc etc, so that the population of robots reaches the desired number and then switches over to a new "program" in which the robots then does the construction job it was designed for -- such as a proposed colony on one of the moons of Saturn, or whathaveyou. Then, later, spaceships could be sent out to those already-built habitats and astronauts wouldn't have to bust their humps doing the hard work of home-construction, and could focus on other tasks.

My character, "Vaughn Newman", though born a human being, will find his Mind trapped within the artificial brain housed in a human-looking ("humaniform") robotic body -- a robot like many that were designed for Outer Space construction projects, with human minds acting as "jockeys" (using Telepresencing brain/machine-interface technology) to control the robotic limbs, like the "waldos" thought up by Robert Heinlein. Vaughn Newman will not be a Von Neumann machine, mind you; but the robotic body he winds up trapped inside will have been designed for a purpose similar to the hypothetical VN machines. As you can probably tell, I got the name "Vaughn" by taking the "Von" and transforming it into a similar-sounding name; and, similarly, I took the name "Neumann " (which is actually pronounced "NOY-mahn") and anglified it into "Newman " -- which fits in symbolically, since when Vaughn's human body is unexpectedly killed, he finds himself still "alive" (conscious) in a robotic body... a new kind of experience for a man to find himself in: he literally becomes a new man.

His "mission" -- given to him by the last U.S. President -- is to do his utmost to save Mankind... to save "America"... doing whatever it takes . Vaughn's mind -- in a state of "symbiosis" with the artificial brain housed in the 'skull' of his humaniform robot -- is ruled by certain pre-programmed elements, including a strict sense of Logic as part of a "Game Theory" algorithm incorporated into the robotic brain prior to his mind being 'fused' into it. Game Theory is defined as: "a mathematical theory primarily concerned with determining an optimal strategy for situations in which there is competition or conflict, such as in business activities or military operations." Using all the knowledge -- all the raw data -- at his command, he is compelled to fulfill his mission; and the data includes the TELEMETRY records of the ANSA ship in which the Ape-onauts landed... the telemetry record of the ship in which Virdon time-traveled back to 1983 from 3085... the eye-witness evidence that the Earth will be ("was") destroyed in 3955, etc. Unlike Hasslein -- who believes that present-day action can change the Future -- Vaughn can only believe what his programmed Logic asserts: that the details embedded in those ANSA Flight Record disks must come to pass in the Future... that nothing can save the Earth from its date with Doomsday in 3955. Vaughn's mission, if it is to succeed, must take those factors into account and work around them -- even by helping to fulfill them... which is why he takes it upon himself to be the one who uses Canine and Feline DNA to recreate a sample laboratory population of Dogs and Cats, and the engineered Retrovirus capable of killing any and all dogs and cats which aren't designed with the antidote to it in their genes. He uses strict machine-Logic to deduce that the Pet Plague virus must have been engineered artificially, designed to kill every dog and cat on Earth... and that it had to have been introduced into the bloodstream of the Astronaut who unwittingly unleashed it in 1983 -- Alan Virdon, who had flown back to 1983-Earth from the Future (3085). These events, loop-de-looping in Time, are circles-in-need-of-completion, and Vaughn takes it upon himself to complete those Causality circles... all as part of his attempt to fulfill his mission.

Patrick Michael Tilton

EARTH-TIME 06-22-2007

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- Oops forgot all about the poster mag! I never saw the wrapping paper
> though I know it must have been around somewhere, I probably just missed
> it.

> Neil

If anyones interested here's a picture of the wrapping paper.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/POTA20WRAP-5.jpg

Best, Graham.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 1:43 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Apes Flicks Yahoo Group

Hey, Mike,

You asked about those APES FLICKS posts I had done before that Yahoo group disappeared. Well, JamesA1102 from the original POTA group somehow had them stored somewhere; he emailed 'em to me, saying: "I heard you were looking for copies of some of your posts from the Ape_Flicks Group."

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hill
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 2:48 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Apes stuff available

If anyones interested here's a picture of the wrapping paper.

http://i178. photobucket. com/albums/ w252/hill1965200 0/POTA20WRAP- 5.jpg

Best, Graham.

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwhitty
Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 12:00 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Apes Flicks Yahoo Group

I can see how someone in this group might have, with all good intentions, asked around to see if anyone else had kept any posts..

.