--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mwhitty" <mwhitty@...> wrote:
>
> Well all these are right but there's one particular one that's
missing.
>
>
>
> Neil and I watched the first two episodes of the Dr Who finale on
the
> weekend. Before we watched the first, Neil and I were discussing
BEGINS
> stuff and one thing that came up was "what's Ape City look like?".
>
>
>
> As we were watching Dr Who there was a very cool city in the first
> episode..on the planet with the "vampire" like creatures. This
city was a
> moderate influence on the first APE CITY we posted.
>
>
>
> Let us know if you want us to keep sharing...
>
>
>
> Michael
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mwhitty" <mwhitty@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah - that's the 3 I was thinking of: Dr Who episode, POTA movie,
Turkish
> Dwellings used as basis for Ape City Production Sketches.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> nlmoxham
> Sent: Tuesday, 26 June 2007 9:34 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: INFLUENCES
>
>
>
> Well, they remind me of those original production drawings in the
> Files section, I recognize the....dolman, we call them in Ireland,
a
> ceremonial shelter made with big flat stones, like a porch but I
> can't think of the proper word.
>
> I know the scene you're talking about in Doctor Who. When I was in
> France last year getting married, I visited a Troglodyte village.
It
> was only begun in about the 17th century and inhabited until maybe
> 100 years ago, and was a series of homes and animal houses,
kitchens
> and a big church all hewn out of the soft rock and connected by
> tunnels. A really awesome place and they had infromation on other
> troglodyte dwellings around the world. I think that probably
includes
> the Turkish ones used as a basis for Ape City, but there were some
> cut into cliff faces, possibly in Algeria or Syria I think, that
> looked a lot like this, with windows and doors stretching all the
way
> up the cliff. I'll see if I can find a link to some pictures or
> something.
>
> Anyway, these pictures are great. They really give the sense of a
> high-rise primitive city, as opposed to what was shown in the movie
> which looked more like a rural village.
>
> Keep 'em coming!
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com>
com, "mwhitty"
> <mwhitty@> wrote:
> >
> > Well all these are right but there's one particular one that's
> missing.
> >
> >
> >
> > Neil and I watched the first two episodes of the Dr Who finale on
> the
> > weekend. Before we watched the first, Neil and I were discussing
> BEGINS
> > stuff and one thing that came up was "what's Ape City look like?".
> >
> >
> >
> > As we were watching Dr Who there was a very cool city in the first
> > episode..on the planet with the "vampire" like creatures. This
> city was a
> > moderate influence on the first APE CITY we posted.
> >
> >
> >
> > Let us know if you want us to keep sharing...
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
>

> And then there's this one:
>
> Ape City By the Sea
>
>
>
>
> Neil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of nlmoxham
> Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 9:01 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Ape City Begins - NFLUENCES
>
>
>
> Yeah, what he said.
>
>
> .
>
>

>

>
>
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 4:39 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Ape City Begins - NFLUENCES

Neil...how in your mind are these cities built? out of
mud and clay or stone?

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwhitty
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 6:50 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Rollerball - in the POTA universe

I can’t see why not.  A roller dome in the background, as per REVOLUTION, is about as far as I would go though!

Anything more would probably distract the reader too much from the pota elements….

.

> -- An Ape Rollerball team versus a Human Rollerball
> team could be fun to
> watch though.
>
>
>
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of mwhitty
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 6:50 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Rollerball - in the POTA
> universe
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I can't see why not. A roller dome in the
> background, as per
> REVOLUTION, is about as far as I would go though!
>
>
>
> Anything more would probably distract the reader too
> much from the pota
> elements..
>
> .
>
>

>

>
>
>
>

> -- An Ape Rollerball team versus a Human Rollerball
> team could be fun to
> watch though.
>
>
>
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of mwhitty
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 6:50 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Rollerball - in the POTA
> universe
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I can't see why not. A roller dome in the
> background, as per
> REVOLUTION, is about as far as I would go though!
>
>
>
> Anything more would probably distract the reader too
> much from the pota
> elements..
>
> .
>
>

>

>
>
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:07 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Rollerball - in the POTA universe

brilliant! could you do a version with out the words
...just the artwork?

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:08 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Rollerball - in the POTA universe

I think you should do a series of classic movie
posters with Apes inserted!!

.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- I think that's a great idea and something I will definitely get
onto!
> So anybody have any ideas on which posters that we Should do then?
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:08 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Rollerball - in the POTA universe
>
>
>
> I think you should do a series of classic movie
> posters with Apes inserted!!
>
>
> .
>
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?
s=97359714/grpId=8605785/grpspId=1705021437/m
> sgId=45134/stime=1182910060/nc1=4617370/nc2=3848621/nc3=3858797>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Rich Handley <handleyr@...> wrote:

>
>

*** That's actually two questions, and they're really good ones, so let me answer 'em!

Virdon -- in my scenario -- gets "home" in the year 1983, going backwards through Time from the autumn of 3085 to the date Tuesday, October 4, 1983 (which just happens to be the feast day of St. Francis of Assisi according to the Roman Catholic ecclesiastical calendar).

This date -- 10-04-1983 -- occurs well after the arrival of the Ape-onauts, the birth (and hiding) of Caesar, etc. It also occurs well after the events that happen in 1947 -- when Mandemus is begotten (in my scenario, there were "evolved apes" on Earth at that time, when primitive apes were made to give birth to genetically altered offspring -- chimeras produced through transgenic gene-splicing).

However, the presence of these Talking Apes is not known until the first of these is heard to speak: when Lisa reveals it by saying the word "No" in protest to Caesar's rant at the end of CONQUEST. Ironically, Caesar was not the first ape to speak -- nor the first ape (following the deaths of Milo, Zira, and Cornelius) to be able to speak. He was merely the first ape who had been heard to speak, when he couldn't help himself and blurted out "Lousy human bastards! " at the Civic Center, protesting the brutalizing of the chimpanzee named 'Aldo' by those stormtrooper-types.

Virdon gets back to a world which is halfway between the shocking appearance of the Ape-onauts [ESCAPE] and the Ape Revolt of CONQUEST. It is an 18-year period in which the United States of America is transforming into a police state. Virdon, who has just barely escaped being killed in the Ape-controlled police state of 3085, would not be happy to see his own country forsaking the ideals of its Founders... and there is the crux of it.

Virdon wants his ideal of America to be able to survive into the Future... but he knows -- after his trip back through Time -- that the Future he witnessed, which he had hoped to change, cannot be changed. He thought that, by going back to the late 20th Century, he could alter events so as to prevent it from happening... yet he has accomplished the opposite. He has helped to fulfill that "destiny"... a fate which required him to go back to 1983 in order to unleash the Dog-and-Cat-killing Plague on the world. If Virdon had not gone back through Time, then the Plague wouldn't have happened, and Man would not then go to the extreme trouble of trying to domesticate the monkeys and apes of Africa and Southeast Asia in order to replace them -- and, ultimately, to enslave them.

Virdon, coming to realize, then, that the Future he'd experienced will indeed happen , wants to find a way to still prevent the total loss of Man's civilization. He learned, prior to going back in Time, that there would be a Pet Plague in 1983 followed by about 3 years before the beginnings of the trend whereby monkeys and apes were taken into human homes as pets, in 1986. Then there would be TWO YEARS of Apes-as-pets, from 1986 to 1988, followed by THREE YEARS of Apes-as-slaves, from 1988 to 1991. And then there would be the Ape Revolt of 1991...

... and, 15 years later, there would be the Global Thermonuclear War of 2006.

Virdon (again, in my scenario ) had learned of these historical events from the lone survivor of the "As-tro-nauts" mentioned by Zaius and Urko to Galen -- the same lone survivor who, at the nearby ANSA facility in Nevada, remotely-controlled Virdon's ship down to its landing near Chalo, when Virdon and Burke were unconscious and Jones was dead. That spaceship didn't land on its own -- it was MADE to land by somebody who knew how to use the ANSA facility's computer systems to override the navigational controls on the spaceship that had just popped out of Hyperspace (from Alpha Centauri) and was falling towards Earth, its pilots unconscious.

That lone survivor -- a character I've mentioned recently, the "Vaughn Newman" guy who began his life as a cripple in the late 20th Century and whose mind became trapped inside the cybernetic "brain" of a humaniform robot/android around the same time the Nuke War was waged -- this guy had been given an order by the last acting President of the United States, the "older version" of Alan Virdon, to save Mankind... to save America... to save Civilization . Virdon himself had worked, from 1983 onwards, to try to do just that by engaging the help of groups of Scientists -- such as the "think-tank" working in the Oakland Science Institute -- in order to prepare the Vaults that would be buried in various cities throughout the world.

Vaughn Newman -- who is, now, half-Robot in a way -- is compelled by his robotic half's programming to fulfill Virdon's presidential Executive Order. To save America, Mankind, human civilization.

But the North American territory currently called "the U.S. of A." is a lost cause, blasted to radioactive smithereens, its citizenry reduced to ashes and/or savagery. Thus, the group of Scientists who had advanced knowledge of their country's soon-to-be demise reasons that America is not, strictly speaking, the "real estate" between Canada and Mexico (etc)... America is an Idea , founded by Idealists who sought to create a nation which could improve itself... "to form a more perfect union" over time, but only if its people exercised Eternal Vigilance.

Virdon, in 1983, finds his nation in the hands of paranoid National Security ideologues and demogogues who are instituting unconstitutional "reforms" which curtail the rights of its citizens -- all for their own good, of course. The treatment Armando receives from Breck's cronies (Kolp and Hoskyns) in 1991 is the trend, where the State is deemed to have rights and the Citizens have had their rights suspended.

Virdon wants his idea of America to survive into the Future... but not what the corrupted nation of his birth has become. He becomes pessimistic about the chances of the U.S.A. surviving into the Future, having seen the Ape civilization existing atop its corpse. If "America" is to survive... it has to be transplanted elsewhere, after the Old America is dead and gone. Then, a New America can be founded.

In my scenario, such a "New America" is eventually founded by surviving members of that core group of Scientists (from "THE LEGACY")... on the territory once called by its inhabitants "Australia" (before, that is, the Nuke War reduced the world to barbarism, with even those who didn't get nuked so bad, the Aussies, being devastated by the ensuing environmental catastrophies). The group of Astronauts who had showed up "more than ten years" before 3085, the ones who claimed to have come from "another time period, long ago" yet from Earth, were not from the U.S.A. -- they were New American astronauts who left Earth in 2500 A.D. After an adventure that takes place between their launch date (in 2500) and the year 2503 (the year, not coincidentally, which is printed on the "NEW YORK 2503" picture in that book Farrow shows to Virdon and Burke...), those Astronauts return to Earth in 3073 (or thereabouts), and the humans they encounter misuse the advanced knowledge they provide them -- so much so that Zaius, in later years, will shudder at the very memory of their "destruction"...

Though Urko will have those Astronauts killed, one of them will be believed killed who cannot be killed by a mere bullet: Vaughn Newman, who has lived on in a humaniform robotic body ever since the year 2006, will be shot -- and considered dead. But, after the bodies are tossed in a ditch and covered with a layer of dirt, Vaughn will wait until the coast is clear and it's night, and then get up and make his way to the ANSA facility where he knows Virdon, Burke and Galen will eventually arrive in 3085... because the older version of Virdon had told him, back in 2006 or even earlier, about his adventures in 3085.

During the 10+ years during which he has to await the destined arrival of Virdon's ship [on March 21, 3085], Vaughn prepares things for his eventual encounter with them. Using the cumulative scientific knowledge garnered by the New America science-teams from the Founding of New America until his departure in 2500, he does a "Jurassic Park" and re-creates a representative sample of the Dog and Cat populations that have been extinct since 1983... so that he can test the engineered retrovirus that is designed to kill any and all dogs and cats that aren't genetically "gifted" with an auto-immunity to it. Arno's pet -- named "Dog" -- will be one of Vaughn's re-introduced test-animals, one which has the Plague-immunity built into its genes. Vaughn -- knowing that Virdon will eventually receive a blood transfusion from a girl who had previously been used in a failed transfusion experiment -- will seek out the son of Travin and infect him with the Pet Plague retrovirus... so that his sister will become infected with it during the attempt to transfuse her blood into him... so that Virdon will become infected by her when her Type AB-negative blood is transfused into him.

After Virdon time-travels back to 1983... after he has done all he can to set the stage for the post-Nuke survival of human -- of American -- civilization... he eventually meets Vaughn Newman. And he'll recognize him as the same person he had met earlier (in 3085), the one who had made it possible for him to decipher his spaceship's Magnetic Flight Record disk and make a Jump through Hyperspace backwards through Time back to 1983...

Knowing, then, at the end of his life, that he's in the presence of somebody who will still be "alive" well over a thousand years into the Future, Virdon will realize that Vaughn's body is robotic -- one of the recently developed "humaniform robot" bodies that cyberneticist Scientists had been working on. A humaniform robot with the mind, the personality, of a human being downloaded into its artificial brain. Virdon orders this younger version of the "person" he'd met in the Future to be the behind-the-scenes savior of Mankind, of human civilization, of America.

Unable to save the United States of America... unable to prevent the "vilest war in human history" from flattening the Earth's cities... Virdon uses his Presidential Executive Powers to draft into his service somebody who -- partly a slave to cybernetic programming -- must do all he can to fulfill his orders. Thus, Vaughn Newman works behind-the-scenes throughout the next half-millennium to prepare the last remnant of American society -- those Scientists -- to be the seed-population that would ultimately bloom into a space-faring civilization.

There's a hell of a lot more to my scenario than this, but it's getting beside-the-point of your question, so I'll leave it at that for now.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

*** I must not have been as clear as I'd intended. I'm not suggesting that the date September 11th will be significant in Apes history every year. No! I'm saying two things which have inadvertently been linked together erroneously:

1) In our real world, the terrorist attacks that happened on 9-11-2001 are not referred to as, say, "The World Trade Center and Pentagon Attacks" (or some such "name" as that); rather, that co-ordinated hijacking of 4 airplanes by Al-Qaeda terrorists is referred to as "September Eleven" or "Nine Eleven" ["9/11"]... so that no matter what, every year there is an anniversary on that date -- because they named that rotten day after the month-and-day it happened. In contrast, everybody knows -- or should know -- that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941, but they did not name that event "December 7" or "Twelve-Seven" or "12/7"... rather, that event is named after the place that was struck : "Pearl Harbor"; thus, even though that attack on Pearl Harbor is remembered and commemorated on the 7th of December, we haven't allowed that date to be wholly marred by the memory of that "day of infamy". When "they" named the Al-Qaeda attack "September Eleven" and "Nine-Eleven" they poisoned that day -- so that one of the 365 days of the calendar year [the 11th day of every September] will from 2001 onwards be immortalized as a day of tragic remembrance of a series of mass-murders committed by Islamic fanatics.

If they had to name that day after the Date on which it happened, I wish they would've called it after the date on the Islamic Calendar which -- according to my calculations, using a book called The Book of Calendars , was the 22nd day of the 6th month [called Jumada II], 1422 A.H. [that is, Anno Hegira]. Thus, it would've been "6-22-1422" according to the Islamic reckoning.

Or, they could've avoided "9/11" entirely by giving that single date the number 82,249 since -- counting from July 4th of 1776 -- the date we call 9-11-2001 was the 82,249th Day of the Republic [counting 7-04-1776 as Day 1, 7-05-1776 as Day 2, etc etc].

2) In my POTA scenario, the day when Taylor detonates the Doomsday Bomb will just happen to be the day which -- according to our Gregorian Calendar -- is September 11, 3955. The ORION mission (of which Taylor is a part) had arrived at their destination, 320 lightyears away, on the EARTH-TIME date 11-25-3978... and then, when making a too-close approach to the Black Hole that once was the star of that distant star system, the mission's mothership has its Emergency Homing Device activated, so that the same thing that happened to Virdon's ship happens to this cluster of ships: the Hyperdrive on the Mothership kicks into high gear and propels the ship(s) through Hyperspace all the way back to Earth [which a "Homing" device would be designed to do], in such a way that they travel backwards through Time at the same rate as Virdon's ship. Virdon's ship goes backwards through Time [Earth-Time ] from JULY 14, 3085 to MARCH 21, 3085 -- or, 115 Earth-Time days (give-or-take several hours), a total of 4.34 lightyears (the distance from Alpha Centauri to Earth), thus, at a rate of almost exactly 1 lightyear per 26.5 Negative Days of Earth-Time. Multiply 26.5 "retrodays" by the distance the Orion Mission would have to travel to get back to Earth -- 320 lightyears -- and you get 8479.25 or so (there's a little bit of "wiggle room" with that 115-days, since we don't know the exact times of day when Virdon's ship leaves the Alpha Centauri system on 7-14-3085 and arrives on Earth on 3-21-3085).

The upshot is that -- in my scenario -- the Orion Mission mothership's hyperdrive pops out of hyperspace on 7-01-3955, and the EARTH-TIME clocks on all those ANSA ships click backwards the requisite 23.2 Earth-Years [i.e. from 11-25-3978 to 7-01-3955] except the EARTH-TIME clock on the shuttle in which Taylor is hibernating, due to that shuttle having been "unplugged " from the Mothership just prior to the activation of the Emergency Homing Device , so that the telemetry feed from the Mothership's computers is no longer being uploaded into that shuttle's computers. Nevertheless, that disconnected shuttle is still inside the warpfield "bubble" generated by the Mothership's hyperdrive engine during the quick Jump back to Earth.

Thus, Taylor's shuttle is remote-controlled down to its water landing in Dead Lake on July 1st 3955 and, 72 days later -- on 9-11-3955 -- Taylor detonates the Doomsday Bomb. I've been able to fit in all the events of PLANET and BENEATH into that 73-day timeframe with no trouble, and it makes symbolic sense for Doomsday to occur on September 11th of 3955... since the armed conflict that leads up to that End-of-the-World is rooted in the religious fanaticism fueling both sides of that war, the Bomb-worshipping Mutants and the invading Gorilla Army doing its "holy duty" (in Ursus' words) for the sake of a "holy war" (in the Ape Minister's words). Although not a day goes by that there isn't some psycho Islamist jihadist committing a violent atrocity somewhere in the world, no other date in our Gregorian Calendar better sums up the notion of unbridled religion-based psychosis than September the Eleventh. I can think of no date more appropriate to have the planet of the apes "Doomsday" transpire.

Patrick

In a message dated 6/23/2007 10:22:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

And... now that those posts are officially a part of this POTADG archive, howzabout some comments about 'em? I don't care if they're pro or con, kudos or razzberries. In MY scenario, it is Virdon who -- when he returns to "his" time (i.e. 1983) -- unwittingly unleashes the Pet Plague; what d'ya think about THAT??? In my "Episode 15" Virdon finds a way to return to the Past, and Burke is left realizing that if HE doesn't stop Doomsday from happening in 3955, then it's probable that NOBODY will... so he time-warps ahead to the 40th Century -- he and Virdon traveling in opposite directions through Time in order to attempt to set matters right.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, atragon1@... wrote:

Interesting idea Patrick. Only, what purpose would it do for Virdon to go  only go as far back as 1983? If he wanted to prevent Doomsday, then it would  make more sense for him to travel back to a time before Taylor's ship lifted off, no? That way, Virdon & Burke/Galen would have hedged their bets if one of  them failed.

 Bill
===================================================

*** I'll try to make this shorter and sweeter.

In my "15th Episode", Virdon & Co. will discover the ANSA facility after Virdon finally gets a good sense of where in "old America" they are, where the Ape villages are situated relative to where the former American cities had been prior to the Nuclear War (of 2006) and the subsequent Earth-Crust-Displacement event that shifted Earth's landmasses around. Remember that compass that Virdon rigged? Throughout the 14 episodes, he'll be using it to help figure out the distances from the ship's Landing Spot to Central City... to Kaymak... to Trion... to the ruins of Oakland and San Francisco, etc etc. Eventually, he'll discover that the latitude/longitude grid he'd known in the 20th Century does not fit the continent in 3085. After the 14th episode (which, in my timeline-scenario, is "The Surgeon"), Virdon will finally know where Central City is in relation to the secret ANSA facility in Nevada -- and how far away it is.

Thus, Virdon -- as he's recuperating from the gunshot -- will lead his fellow fugitives to that ANSA facility... where they will discover Vaughn Newman awaiting them (read my last several posts for more about this character).

Using the ANSA computers, Virdon finally learns exactly what happened to his spaceship out at Alpha Centauri: they had encountered a planet-mass Black Hole and , while approaching it too closely, endured gravitational time dilation that zipped them 1,105 years into the Future...

... and then, when Jones activated the Emergency Homing Device, the hyperdrive caused his ship to go >BANG-ZOOM < from the Alpha Centauri system all the way back to Earth... going BACKWARDS through Earth-Time about 115 days.

Time travel backwards through Earth-Time is not only possible (as Virdon hoped it would be)... he's already experienced it once!

All he needs is a nearby Black Hole so that the same sort of interaction his ANSA hyperdrive's warpfield had with the Alpha Centauri-X Black Hole can be replicated.

Vaughn Newman, anticipating this moment -- and knowing that he must send Virdon back through Time, not only to the late 20th Century, but specifically to the year 1983, when he knows Virdon will re-appear -- triggers the Doomsday Bomb he had planted on the Farside of the Moon prior to landing back on Earth more than 10 years earlier.

Nobody on Earth sees the "bright white blinding light" of the detonation, since it occurs on the Moon's Farside... but soon afterwards the micromass Black Hole that is created in that detonation gobbles up the mass of the Moon. The matter of which the Moon is comprised collapses into the Event Horizon at an accelerating rate until -- in a flash of X-rays -- the visible disk of the Moon winks out, to be replaced by a swirling disk, an Accretion Disk of dust and ions trapped in an orbit around that hyperspinning Black Hole like a Saturn-ring.

This "Darkmoon" object, possessing the same mass that the Moon had, will orbit the Earth at the same rate (once every 29.53 days or so), but it will be virtually invisible on a clear night. The only major difference (visually) will be the Ring of the Accretion Disk -- seen nearly edge-on from Earth -- and the jet of plasma streaming away from it like a comet's tail (i.e. the slingshotted solar wind gravitationally lensed by the Black Hole) -- the cause of the "strange luminosity" mentioned in PLANET. Every time the Darkmoon gets in-between the Sun and the Earth, that jet of plasma gets fired into the Earth's atmosphere, causing the rainless "thunder and lightning" effect mentioned by Dodge in PLANET.

Vaughn will also have prepared -- using ANSA industrial robots to do the majority of the gruntwork -- several ANSA-style shuttles, each equipped with the same type of Hyperdrive that Virdon's ship had and with which he is familiar.

Virdon will wish to go back to the moment just after he himself (with Burke and Jones) had left Earth. In my scenario, that Liftoff event was in August of 1971, about 5 months before Taylor's shuttle lifted off from Cape Kennedy to join the awaiting Orion Mission mothership and the other 2 shuttles already docked to it, all at the Lagrange position beyond the Farside of the Moon, out of sight by Earth-based telescopes and satellites.

But Vaughn will have rigged the navigational computer on Virdon's new ANSA shuttle so that when the EARTH-TIME clock is ticking backwards from 3085 down to the year 2000... 1999... 1998... 1997... (etc etc), when it reaches the date 10-04-1983 the Hyperdrive will be prematurely canceled, forcing Virdon's time-traveling ship to pop back into the SpaceTime Continuum about 12 Earth-Time years too "soon" -- or, too "late" from the perspective of a man who had hoped to de-warp about a day or so after his original ship left Earth for Alpha Centauri.

In a way, Virdon will have been duped into believing he could get back to 1971; it will serve Vaughn's mission better, though, for Virdon to fulfill the Causality Loop that he is "destined" to fulfill. Vaughn, back in the late 20th Century, had already experienced the re-appearance of Virdon in 1983, so he knew that Virdon had to reappear then and not earlier. Vaughn's older self -- in 3085 -- thus acted to help Virdon fulfill the destiny that Causality and Logic demanded.

It is only after Virdon finds himself helplessly spat out of Hyperspace in 1983 that he realizes what Vaughn did... after he discovers that he has become "Typhoid Alan" -- the carrier of a plague virus that he'd acquired in the Future and brought back with him, fulfilling the sequence of events that were destined to transpire leading up to the Ape Enslavement, Ape Revolt, and Nuclear War.

From that point on, Virdon is trapped on a world doomed to suffer Global Thermonuclear War. Between 1983 and 2006 he has only about 22 years or so to do whatever the hell he can to prepare at least a Remnant of Man's best-and-brightest to survive that impending Catastrophe.

Virdon's endeavors, then, will play out in the Past (viewed from the perspective of 3085)... whereas Burke and Galen will have to make choices as to what they might attempt to do. Stay in 3085 and try to change Ape society, to reverse the trend of human subjugation that will culminate in the world described by Zira and Cornelius in their interrogations?

Or... use the gravitational time-dilation properties of the Darkmoon to do a Rip Van Winkle into the Future... to pop out of Hyperspace before the fateful year of Earth's destined Doomsday... to attempt to find that Doomsday Bomb and, with luck, deactivate it and save the world?

In my scenario, Burke and Galen will choose the latter. They will time-travel into the Future 43,200 weeks (a mythically symbolic period of time)... or, 302,400 days, which equals 827.94378 years of Earth-Time. They will accelerate away from the Time Dilating effects of the Darkmoon Black Hole sometime in the year 3913, a little over 41 years before the Orion Mission is due to return to Earth (based on the Telemetry taken from the Ape-onaut shuttle).

Thus, Burke and Galen will be around in 3955 -- each of them almost 42 years of "Self-Time" older than they were when they last saw Virdon, when they left the 31st Century behind. When the Orion Mission ANSA astronauts arrive, the ones de-hibernating up in the Mothership will be reunited with an astronaut they'd last seen 18 months of SHIP-TIME earlier... but he's aged about 42 years since then...

Ooo, but I don't want to give away every little detail of my plot, so I'll clam up for now!

Patrick

 

> -- Just happen to have one ready that I prepared
> earlier...
>
>
>
>
> Neil :- )
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:07 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Rollerball - in the POTA
> universe
>
>
>
> brilliant! could you do a version with out the words
> ...just the artwork?
>
> .
>
>

>

>
>
>
>

> -- I think that's a great idea and something I will
> definitely get onto!
> So anybody have any ideas on which posters that we
> Should do then?
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Wednesday, June 27, 2007 12:08 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Rollerball - in the POTA
> universe
>
>
>
> I think you should do a series of classic movie
> posters with Apes inserted!!
>
>
> .
>
>

>

>
>
>
>

> In a message dated 6/26/2007 9:45:31 PM Central
> Daylight Time,
> mwhitty@... writes:
>
>
> >
> >
> >
>
> *** Exactly!!!!!!
>
> The whole idea of crossing APES with anything is
> pure heresy... It's not
> cute, not clever, and totally unnecessary... It
> cheapens APES, and makes it look
> like the schlocky thing so many people seem to
> think it is....<BR><BR><BR>
> **************************************<BR> See
> what's free at http://www.aol.com.</HTML>
>

>Posted by: "mlccougar@..." mlccougar@... mlccougar
>The whole idea of crossing APES with anything is pure heresy... It's not
>cute, not clever, and totally unnecessary... It cheapens APES, and
>makes it look
>like the schlocky thing so many people seem to think it is....

>
>Ironically, Caesar
> was not the first ape to speak -- nor the first ape (following the
> deaths of Milo, Zira, and Cornelius) to be able to speak. He was

> the first ape who had been heard to speak, when he couldn't help

> and blurted out "Lousy human bastards!" at the Civic Center,

> the brutalizing of the chimpanzee named 'Aldo' by those
> stormtrooper-types.
>
>

> Yeah the posters is just fun.
>
>
>
> No way anyone could cheapen POTA any more than it
> has already been cheapened
> by FOX!
>
>
>
> But I gotta say you'd have t do it well. I recall
> someone did an "OCEAN'S
> 11" picture and superimposed ape heads/renamed it
> "Urko's 11" or something.
> That just wasn't funny..or if it was the humour had
> negligible depth! Just
> cut and paste..
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2007 10:34 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Rollerball - in the POTA
> universe
>
>
>
> It's not crossing Apes with anything...it's just
> fun.....
>
> --- mlccougar@aol. <mailto:mlccougar%40aol.com> com
> wrote:
>
> > In a message dated 6/26/2007 9:45:31 PM Central
> > Daylight Time,
> > mwhitty@optusnet.
> <mailto:mwhitty%40optusnet.com.au> com.au writes:
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > *** Exactly!!!!!!
> >
> > The whole idea of crossing APES with anything is
> > pure heresy... It's not
> > cute, not clever, and totally unnecessary... It
> > cheapens APES, and makes it look
> > like the schlocky thing so many people seem to
> > think it is....<BR><BR><BR>
> > **************************************<BR> See
> > what's free at http://www.aol.
> <http://www.aol.com.> com.</HTML>
> >
>
>

>
> The third -- Rollerball's quick mention in
> Revolution -- didn't bother me because it was subtle and more of
> an homage than anything. In fact, many people didn't even notice
> it.

> Gee - you REALLY want him to think he's in trouble don't you?
>
> What a shame he already knows all the consequences of your silliness

> futile!
>
> What a shame you don't out as much time into writing scripts as you put
> into being vindictive!
>
> It's been lovely chatting - do get back soon to remind us how powerful
> you are!
>
> Nigel xoxoxox

> Go to this link:
>
>

>
> Melinda
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mwhitty" <mwhitty@...> wrote:
>
> Dude, you are kidding right?
>
>
>
> You can't even tell me my supervisor's name, or you would have.
>
>
>
> There was an investigation. Since then:
>
>
>
> (1) I have been promoted 2 levels since the;
>
> (2) I have transferred 1000 miles North to the place I have
always wanted
> to live (15 minute drive from Neil's place so we can do heaps more
comics
> together);
>
> (3) I have bought a coffee store for my wife with some spare
change.
>
>
>
> My life at the moment is fabulous.
>
>
>
> You, on the other hand, are just proving what a loser you are.
>
>
>
> Your problem with me is what? That you didn't get the script done
and you
> never will? Get over it man. Find someone else to target - you
can't hurt
> me.
>
>
>
> If anyone is wondering, this is Chris admitting he contacted my
work to tell
> them I emailed the DG during work hours and he sure put a stop to
that.at
> the expense of POTA fandom. What a big brave man he is!
>
>
>
> Be careful dealing with this guy - if you so much as photocopy
stuff at work
> (like Ballard has) he will dob you in to your boss like a 5 year
old baby.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris Lawless [lawford42@...]
> Sent: Friday, 29 June 2007 10:21 AM
> To: mwhitty@...
> Subject: smackdown!!!
>
>
>
> Well Whitty, according to what your supervisor told me via e-mail
you got
>
>
>
> into quite a lot of trouble. Almost career ending trouble.
>
>
>
> So just remember that contrary to what you tell yourself, you're not
>
> beyond reproach.
>
>
>
> Check and mate. You lose.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> writes:
>
>
>
> > Gee - you REALLY want him to think he's in trouble don't you?
>
> >
>
> > What a shame he already knows all the consequences of your
silliness
>
> are
>
> > futile!
>
> >
>
> > What a shame you don't out as much time into writing scripts as
you put
>
> > into being vindictive!
>
> >
>
> > It's been lovely chatting - do get back soon to remind us how
powerful
>
> > you are!
>
> >
>
> > Nigel xoxoxox
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
>
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>
> Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.9.12/878 - Release Date:
28/06/2007
> 5:57 PM
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mwhitty" <mwhitty@...> wrote

> Thanks John. It's nice to see that someone in this group thinks I'm getting
> the rough end of the pineapple. I am assuming everyone else thinks it's
> cool what he's done, or they think I deserve it.
>
>
>
> Michael
>

Just a quickie to say I couldn't let the above stand.

I'm sure I speak for quite a few people in saying that the stick you've got from certain areas of POTA fandom is just uncalled for.

My little taste of this type of thing ,over Neil's Scrolls cover was a enough to put me off  "joining" in fandom in any real way for quite some time and this is / was nothing compared to having some one try and get you fired... that's just reprehensible.

Can't say it clearer than that.

As always best wishes Graham.

(off for his 2nd cup of tea)

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "nlmoxham" <neilmoxham@...> wrote:
>
> Has this been discussed before? Why did Aldo go from chimp to gorilla?
> Are they two different characters or is it just poor continuity. When I
> first noticed 'Aldo' in the credits of Conquest I guessed he was the
> gorilla that stops sweeping and upturns his bin, but the chimp
> messenger is clearly called Aldo. There's some extra scenes in the
> Marvel comic where this messenger (now correctly a gorilla) and Caesar
> stare knowingly at each other, and as Caesar plots his revolution he
> visits Aldo's cell to tell him to prepare.
>
=========================================================

*** For the sake of my own POTA opus' scenario, the "extra scenes" in the Marvel comic and/or the screenplay are not "canon" unless they don't conflict with what ended up on-screen.

Thus, in CONQUEST the ape we see getting thwacked at the Civic Center is a chimpanzee named 'Aldo'... and he is owned by none other than Governor Breck for a reason.

Those -- in the Federal government -- who had advanced knowledge that a Pet Plague would eventually be unleashed, had been led to believe that it would lead to the large-scale taking-in of monkeys and apes as replacement pets...

... and then, after a period of "TWO CENTURIES" those pet-apes would be enslaved, supposedly... just prior to "THREE MORE CENTURIES " of Ape Enslavement followed by the appearance of "an ape named 'Aldo' who did not grunt [but, rather] articulated" saying the [very first] word ["No!" ] to its human master.

This is what the Feds -- due to the CIA-interrogation of Zira and Cornelius -- had been led to believe.

1) Pet plague wipes out all Dogs and Cats

2) Man replaces lost pets with Apes

3) A period of TWO CENTURIES of Apes-as-Pets

4) A period of THREE MORE CENTURIES of Apes-as-Slaves

5) An ape named "Aldo" speaks the first word ["No!"] and starts the Ape Revolt

But... when Virdon shows up in 1983 and unwittingly unleashes the Plague [fulfilling #1 in the above list], after about 3 years of an interim Mankind begins replacing those lost Dogs and Cats with Monkeys and Apes, in 1986 [fulfilling #2 above]...

... but instead of there being a period of TWO CENTURIES of Apes-as-Pets [#3 above], there is instead a period of only TWO YEARS , since the "conditioning" sites [Ape Management facilities] are used not only to make the larger apes more easily handled, but are used to train those apes for performing services.

Apes, in 1988, are enslaved TWO YEARS after they were first taken in as replacement pets, rather than TWO CENTURIES.

So, the Feds -- who know about the "future history" revealed by Cornelius and Zira -- know, in 1988, that something is fishy about the Timeline given in that interrogation testimony.

Thus, the Feds debrief Governor Breck... informing him of this discrepancy. They warn him to look out for any ape named "Aldo" -- as Cornelius intended them to, since he knows that a gorilla named Aldo will eventually murder his grandson if he isn't stopped first.

Thus, when Breck learns that the Ape Revolt might happen in only a few years rather than some 500 years into the Future, he has his Ape Management dudes scour their records to see if there happens to be any ape named "Aldo" currently in the city.

There isn't. But that could change any time. When a citizen of Breck's city purchases an ape, he or she is required to give that newly-bought ape a NAME, and to REGISTER it with APE MANAGEMENT . Breck orders the Records department personnel at APE MANAGEMENT to alert him ASAP whenever a citizen gives the name "Aldo" to an ape.

Eventually, this indeed happens. An unnamed chimpanzee goes through APE MANAGEMENT and is sold at Auction... and the owner of this chimpanzee names it "Aldo"...

... and the Records people inform Breck of this as soon as possible, so that Breck uses his "executive privilege" to force that citizen to sell the new ape directly to him, making use of the "eminent domain" laws.

This is how Breck comes to be the owner of that chimpanzee "messenger" whom we see being brutalized by those jackbooted thugs outside the Civic Center. Breck knew that an ape named "Aldo" would be the one to watch out for... based on Cornelius' manipulative revelations of his culture's "hidden history scrolls".

That chimpanzee -- named "Aldo" -- ultimately dies as a result of the mistreatment, thus freeing up the name ALDO for some other about-to-be-purchased ape to be named.

The gorilla whom Caesar sees being subjected to the "electronic conditioning" (the "No!" cage torture) during his APE MANAGEMENT experiences is unnamed at the time...

... but, at the same auction where Caesar was purchased by Governor Breck, that gorilla is also sold... and his human master eventually gives him the name "Aldo".

So... why doesn't Breck purchase this new (gorilla) "Aldo" from its owner, the way he'd purchased the chimpanzee he'd recently lost? Did APE MANAGEMENT remember to alert him to the presence of yet another "Aldo" ape on-the-scene? If so, did Breck deem it important still?

Well, since then he has reason to believe that Armando's circus chimp -- who had been RE-named SOLOMON [the masculinized version of "Salome"] back in 1973 -- might very well be the changeling son of the Talking Apes from the Future.

When he has his new (presumably nameless) chimpanzee slave pick its own name from a "Book of Names", Breck might be expecting him to pick the name ALDO from it... but, instead, "Solomon" intentionally picks the name CAESAR -- a name that only Armando knew him by... his private, secret name.

A name which, in my scenario, Cornelius more-than-hinted to Armando (out of earshot of Zira) that he wanted his son to have, rather than "Milo". When Armando realizes that Zira had left her baby with Heloise, he knows he can't ignore the name issue. He must change the "public" name SALOME to its masculine equivalent, SOLOMON -- hoping that this slight alteration in the Official Record won't be a red-flag for the Authorities, hoping to pawn-it-off as a mistaken-gender issue at the baby's birth.

In my scenario, before Cornelius left with Zira (and the baby he knew wasn't his son, due to his reading of the hidden Ape History scrolls) he told Armando that there would be a Nuke War about 33 years in the Future... and that the once-lost history of his people tells how they owed their lives -- and the lives of the remnant of dominated humans -- to the wise leadership of the first ape king... named CAESAR. A chimpanzee king who didn't cruelly mistreat the surviving humans, and sought to have both apes and humans live together in peace and harmony... a chimpanzee who had had a human foster-father who had run a circus.

Armando, then, knows that the son of Cornelius is not in Zira's arms when they leave his circus with Lewis and Stevie... rather, he is in Heloise's cage . And he is "destined" to become King Caesar. "... if it is Man's destiny to be dominated, then... let him be dominated by such as you" -- that's what Armando told Cornelius and Zira.

Armando -- ever the champion for "destiny" -- will have no choice but to help to fulfill that destiny by re-naming the baby "Caesar", even though he knows it is against the wishes of Zira, who had chosen to name him "Milo" in honor of their genius friend.

That's my take on it, at any rate.

Patrick

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nlmoxham
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 1:01 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Aldo

Has this been discussed before? Why did Aldo go from chimp to gorilla?
Are they two different characters or is it just poor continuity.

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 1:00 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Rollerball - in the POTA universe

As for your wanting to see APES on other movie posters, what for? Seriously, what is the point of that?

.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- I've always figured that there had to be some apes that had the
same
> name, nothing odd about that.
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of nlmoxham
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 1:01 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Aldo
>
>
>
> Has this been discussed before? Why did Aldo go from chimp to
gorilla?
> Are they two different characters or is it just poor continuity.
>
> .
>
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?
s=97359714/grpId=8605785/grpspId=1705021437/m
> sgId=45145/stime=1182956500/nc1=3858797/nc2=3848607/nc3=3848443>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:35 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Rollerball - in the POTA universe

Yeah...I'm not talking about crossing storylines.. .I
disagree with that....just poster images....

.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/1/2007 6:42:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
> ntfoster@... writes:
>
>
> > -- I've always figured that there had to be some apes that had
the same
> > name, nothing odd about that.
> >
> > *** Exactly what I feel...
>
> <BR><BR>**************************************<BR> See what's free
at http://www.aol.com.</HTML>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwhitty
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 6:02 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Return paintings

Very nice Neil!

Thanks for sharing.

.

> -- Just for the heck of it I have uploaded the ones
> I'd already done to
> the files section.
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Tim "apefan"
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:35 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Rollerball - in the POTA
> universe
>
>
>
> Yeah...I'm not talking about crossing storylines...I
> disagree with that....just poster images....
>
> .
>
>

>

>
>
>
>

> I've added a couple more pictures in the Return
> paintings folder. I
> took a lot of screen shots that were used on the
> Icarus site a few
> years ago and these are a few left-overs that
> weren't used.
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Melinda G Kettler
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 8:44 AM
To: friends_and_fugitives@yahoogroups.com; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] OT: Dallas/Ft. Worth Flooding

I'm getting really nervous y'all. We just had 4 more inches of rain in my
area in about an hour, and there is now a stream in my backyard, half way up
the yard to my house. This is just freaking me out. We have had so much
rain the last two months, that the ground is too saturated for the water to
soak in. I just drove home in this torrential down pore. I didn't think I
was going to make it home. And I don't have flood insurance, should this
flooding damage my house. I feel for everybody that has already been
flooded out of their houses in other areas of the metroplex. It is a very
unsettling feeling.

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwhitty
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 6:08 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Rollerball - in the POTA universe

In a blasphemous way!  J

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nlmoxham
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2007 10:36 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Aldo

Well, OK, but I figured the comics, and perhaps the screenplays they
were based on, intended for him to be the same character all along.
Not literally the leader of the rebellion predicted by Cornelius, but
the ape who started the whole chain of events by provoking Ceasar's
outburst. It would give his character a lot more depth if he was a
hero of the revolution (as he is in 'Revolution' ) as well as the
straight-forward villain of 'Battle'. If they had thought to make him
a gorilla in 'Conquest' I don't think you would even question that he
might not be the same character.

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwhitty
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2007 6:08 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Rollerball - in the POTA universe

Should see Neil’s Lawgiver!

.

> I'm getting really nervous y'all. We just had 4
> more inches of rain in my
> area in about an hour, and there is now a stream in
> my backyard, half way up
> the yard to my house. This is just freaking me out.
> We have had so much
> rain the last two months, that the ground is too
> saturated for the water to
> soak in. I just drove home in this torrential down
> pore. I didn't think I
> was going to make it home. And I don't have flood
> insurance, should this
> flooding damage my house. I feel for everybody that
> has already been
> flooded out of their houses in other areas of the
> metroplex. It is a very
> unsettling feeling.
>
> Melinda
>
>
>

>
> I'm getting really nervous y'all. We just had 4 more inches of

> area in about an hour, and there is now a stream in my backyard,

> the yard to my house. This is just freaking me out. We have had

> rain the last two months, that the ground is too saturated for the

> soak in. I just drove home in this torrential down pore. I didn't

> was going to make it home. And I don't have flood insurance,

> flooding damage my house. I feel for everybody that has already

> flooded out of their houses in other areas of the metroplex. It is

> unsettling feeling.
>
> Melinda
>

Tim created a Monk-E-Mail just for you. Now what did you do to deserve that?

CLICK HERE to see your message.

And when you're done watching the talking monkey, feel free to make your own Monk-E-Mail reply.

Brought to you by CareerBuilder.com.

CareerBuilder does not control content from the sender included within this Monk-e-mail. By accessing this Monk-e-Mail, you acknowledge that: (i) you may be exposed to content provided by the sender that is abusive, offensive or otherwise objectionable; and (ii) CareerBuilder will not be liable in any way for such content, including, but not limited to any errors or omissions in such content or e-mail addresses included therein or any loss or damage of any kind incurred as a result of the review and/or use of such content.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:

*** My only question in this whole "Aldo" thing is this: What line of dialog that is said by Cornelius indicates what species of ape the original Aldo is?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is what the script has:

CORNELIUS "At first they barked their refusal. And then, on a historic day commemorated by my species and fully documented in the secret scrolls, there came an Ape called Aldo, who didn't bark. He articulated. He spoke a word which had been spoken to him, time without number, by Humans. He said `No'."

 

The line of dialogue, as spoken on-screen by Roddy, is almost verbatim (substituting "grunted" for "barked"). Notice that Cornelius says that this incident is "fully documented in the secret scrolls" -- not in the Sacred Scrolls. All this "prehistory" stuff, Cornelius tells them, is due to him -- as an archaologist -- having had access to "history scrolls that were kept hidden from the masses" . From the Secret Scrolls, in other words.

Is Cornelius being completely honest here? Oh, I doubt it. Remember, he's not under the influence of sodium pentothal, or being subjected to an Authenticator (which probably hadn't been invented yet), so it's not as if he doesn't have the freedom to bend-the-truth if he so chooses. After Zira is returned to him (following her drug-induced questioning), he lamentingly asks, "Did they make you tell them about Taylor, too?" In other words, while he was forcibly removed from the interrogation room, he had been hoping that Zira would not divulge what they knew about Taylor; after all, Taylor was the one subject they'd been asked about by the Presidential Commission that Cornelius admitted -- to Lewis and Stevie -- he'd lied about [Q : "Did you know Colonel Taylor?" & A : "No... is he a soldier?"]. He doesn't want Hasslein to question everything they had already spoken of to the Commission.

We should also wonder how truthful Cornelius is when he says that the first use of the word "No!" by an Ape is "a day commemorated by my species and fully documented in the Secret Scrolls"... for a number of reasons:

1) Cornelius and Zira came from an Ape civilization governed by an Academy which seems to have been dominated by Orangutans, with the Chief Defender of the Faith (Dr. Zaius) having been the most recent in a long line of such Guardians of the Terrible Secret who had buried the truth about their past (i.e. the Secret Scrolls) by promulgating the text the Apes knew as the Sacred Scrolls and the doctrines [the Articles of Faith] that were espoused in them. One of those doctrines was that God created the APE in His image (etc) and that Man was nothing but a beast who, obviously, never could have had the power of speech [since they "had no souls"] -- let alone once ruled over the enslaved simian ancestors of the citizens of Ape City. There's no way in hell that Apes living in Ape City in 3955 could ever know about a her0-ape who was the first to speak a word ["No!"] to a Human MASTER, let alone commemorate such a historic day -- not unless, that is, such an ape had had access to "forbidden" knowledge of the Past and had kept that secret knowledge to himself or herself, as a Heretic.

2) Cornelius says that the historic day on which Aldo spoke that word is commemorated "by my species" -- and, I ask you, what species could he be referring to other than that of Chimpanzees? Remember, the word Ape does not signify one single species; rather, it encompasses three distinct species (in the Planet of the Apes saga, not counting Marvel's Terror series, which included a gibbon named Gilbert): the intelligent (and talking) Chimpanzees, Orangutans, and Gorillas . If Cornelius was referring to a day commemorated by all apes, by all three species of apes, he should have said, "a day commemorated by all apes and fully documented" (etc).

 

Taking into account all the info from the 5 films, it seems to me that Cornelius might be hinting at several things, among them:

a) A particular "day" was commemorated by certain Chimpanzees who were privy to at least some of the hidden history that Zaius knew all along -- a history that Chimpanzees in particular would be proud of. And that particular "day" would have been when Caesar [the chimpanzee Savior-King] was executed... then resurrected... and had then freed the enslaved Apes (all three species of Apes ) from their captivity on what would later be called (by Lisa) "the Night of the Fires". The (few) chimpanzees of Ape City who knew of this hidden history would, then, be members of a secret society of some kind -- closet heretics. Zaius had told Cornelius that "only an Apostate would flee to the Forbidden Zone"... suggesting that, in the past, there had been at least one instance of an Ape apostate -- a simian heretic -- having had to flee into the desert in order to escape the punishment ordained for Apostasy and Heresy. Heresy seems to be an ecclesiastical crime punishable by "two years" of imprisonment -- and that doesn't seem so terrible that it would warrant fleeing into the Forbidden Zone... so that Apostasy must carry with it a far harsher sentence, probably the Death Penalty (Cornelius mentions getting his head chopped off when he and Zira talk about his controversial theory of Evolution, which half the Academy said was Heresy; if he were to stubbornly insist that his theory was true, that would open the door to official charges of Heresy, as well as Apostacy... leading to capital punishment).

b) If the Secret Scrolls include the scroll from which the Lawgiver in BATTLE read in the year A.D. 2670 to his mixed audience of Chimpanzee, Orangutan, and Human children -- but not Gorilla children -- then Cornelius would've known that the hero Ape who had first said "No!" to a human was not named 'Aldo'... he was named CAESAR . King Caesar, the father of the murdered Prince Cornelius... the "savior" who had been "miraculously born" of two parent apes who descended on Earth from Earth's own future .

c) Cornelius -- if he knows of that suppressed scroll -- would know, then, that the baby in Zira's womb was (or, would become, one day) that very King Caesar who is destined to be the leader not only of intelligent, talking Chimpanzees... but of all the survivors of the soon-to-happen Nuclear War: all Chimpanzees, Gorillas, Orangutans, and Humans. But the Dynasty would be cut short by the murder of Caesar's son, Prince Cornelius... murdered by a gorilla named 'Aldo'...

d) Thus, Cornelius would have every reason to name an ape named ALDO as the dangerous one whom the Humans should look out for in the Future. If Cornelius can get Hasslein (or one of his like-minded cronies) to kill any and every ape named Aldo, then maybe... just maybe ... he can prevent Aldo from murdering his own future grandson, and give the Dynasty of King Caesar a chance to rule throughout the future history of Ape and Man -- changing the future so that it isn't dominated by the gun-wielding Gorillas and the dogma-indoctrinating Orangutans.

e) Cornelius can't resist gloating that the future Ape King -- whom he knows will be his chimpanzee son, Caesar -- will be commemorated by a knowledgeable few (a chimp secret society)... "by my species", by a CHIMPANZEE. Knowing that a gorilla is to kill his son's heir, Cornelius isn't about to give the credit for the first spoken word by a rebel Ape to a gorilla. Cornelius' pride as a chimpanzee makes him refer to " my species" -- to chimpanzees ; yet his goal is to put "an Ape named ALDO" in the cross-hairs of the itchy trigger-fingers of the humans who will, one day, have to deal with an Ape Revolt. That may mean that any chimpanzee who should happen to be given the name "Aldo" by his human master would automatically wind up on an Enemies List -- and killed; for that matter, any Orangutan named "Aldo" would also be put in danger by this "revelation" Cornelius gives Hasslein. But... no matter, as long as the gorilla who is destined to murder King Caesar's sole heir is killed.

 

In his own way, Cornelius wants to change the Future, and he's got a personal stake in it. The life of his future grandson -- destined to be named 'Cornelius'... named after himself! -- will be cut short in childhood unless that future murderer, Aldo, is stopped.

 

That's my take on it. I think the phrase "by my species" speaks volumes.

 

Patrick

 

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