-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwhitty
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 6:41 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: OT: Simpsons barely beat Apes

My kids liked the “penis” scene!

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilto n
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2007 1:13 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: OT: Simpsons barely beat Apes

Regardless, it was a fairly entertaining flick, and I'd give it about
***/*****. The " SOUTH PARK " movie was definitely funnier, though.
And, maybe because SOUTH PARK tends to have a raunchier brand of
comedy, I tend to laugh more at episodes of SOUTH PARK than of the
SIMPSONS.

Patrick

.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
> Someone could do a "Kamandi" movie. That's an established
franchise. Talking monkeys and everything else. Plus it's a COMIC
BOOK! Now the studios are drooling.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwhitty
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 7:18 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Fan presence at conventions.

Oh yeah if it wasn’t going to cost me $3000 to be there!

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Wendy Kostora
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2007 1:38 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Fan presence at conventions.

However, if it were world con, you'd show up. Right??? People around the planet come to world con. I'd come even if it were at your part of the world. Planet of the Apes converse!!!

.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 10:23 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "POTA does not sell."

LEt me know.....

I am heading out today for Malibu State park and
possibly Point Dume.....

any hints at finding filmed sites at Century City or
is it all ovbvious when I get there.....

Tim

--- "Jeff K." <veetus@earthlink. net> wrote:

>
> I don't know if I'm going Friday. That's still up
> in the air.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim "apefan"
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 9:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "POTA does not sell."
>
>
> I agree Jeff...Not every sci-fi flick has a fan
> base
> and some are certainly more popluar than
> others...I
> still am amazed that I have discovered all of you
> all
> over the world who are POTA freaks like me....I
> really
> thought I might be the only one before these
> groups!
>
> ...POTA will never be as big as Trek or Wars or
> probably even Stargate ...and that's cool
> really...with me anyway.....any new product that
> comes
> out is a small miracle and is welcome..... .It just
> effects ebay prices.....the smaller the fan base,
> the
> higher the prices for the rare stuff.....
>
> Jeff, are you going to the Double Feature Friday
> night? I'm in LA and I will be there!
>
> Tim
>
> --- "Jeff K." <veetus@earthlink. net> wrote:
>
> > Well, what was popular at the Con? Star Wars?
> Star
> > Trek? Superheroes? Why do those sell? Maybe
> because
> > those have had recent revivals. Even Star Wars,
> the
> > prequels are considered crap but Lucas keeps the
> > originals promoted. Star Trek was considered to
> have
> > run it's course but Paramount is putting out an
> > exciting new movie by a big player, J.J. Abrams
> (L.
> > Nimoy said he's back because of Abrams and the
> > script). And of course we know the studios are
> > squeezing every last dime out of the
> superheroes,
> > including Fox. When the "Hulk" didn't work they
> > tried it again.
> > Meanwhile, most agree POTA2001 didn't work. That
> > means we have to go back to POTA Old School,
> which
> > is getting dusty to pop culture 40 years later.
> > Unless something "new" happens that works,
> meaning a
> > movie or TV show, not a comic, POTA will be a
> niche
> > relegated to ebay. That's all there is to it.
> Why do
> > you think Lucas is doing Star Wars TV shows even
> > though the story is supposedly over? Out of
> sight,
> > out of mind. Jeff
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Neil Foster
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 12:13 AM
> > Subject: RE: [PotaDG] "POTA does not sell."
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Because there are very few hardcore POTA fans
> > around the world and not all of them will buy
> > everything. POTA's not popular, that's why POTA
> > doesn't sell.
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> > [PotaDG@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> mwhitty
> > Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2007 11:33 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] "POTA does not sell."
> >
> >
> >
> > I think it was Kevin who mentioned Ploog (or
> > someone at ComiCon) said POTA does not sell.
> >
> >
> > Do we think this is a correct analysis?
> >
> >
> > Why do we think this is so?
> >
> > .
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.
> Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.
>
http://surveylink. yahoo.com/ gmrs/yahoo_ panel_invite. asp?a=7
>
>
>
>
>

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Looking for a deal? Find great prices on flights and hotels with Yahoo! FareChase.
http://farechase. yahoo.com/

----- Original Message -----

From: mwhitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 1:38 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] "POTA does not sell."

Tell us more big boy – who’s your date?

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Monday, 6 August 2007 10:33 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "POTA does not sell."

  I don't know if I'm going Friday. That's still up in the air.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2007 9:10 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "POTA does not sell."

I agree Jeff...Not every sci-fi flick has a fan base
and some are certainly more popluar than others...I
still am amazed that I have discovered all of you all
over the world who are POTA freaks like me....I really
thought I might be the only one before these groups!

...POTA will never be as big as Trek or Wars or
probably even Stargate ...and that's cool
really...with me anyway.....any new product that comes
out is a small miracle and is welcome..... .It just
effects ebay prices.....the smaller the fan base, the
higher the prices for the rare stuff.....

Jeff, are you going to the Double Feature Friday
night? I'm in LA and I will be there!

Tim

----- Original Message -----

From: mwhitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 2:17 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Fan presence at conventions.

Oh yeah if it wasn’t going to cost me $3000 to be there!

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Wendy Kostora
Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2007 1:38 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Fan presence at conventions.

However, if it were world con, you'd show up. Right??? People around the planet come to world con. I'd come even if it were at your part of the world. Planet of the Apes converse!!!

Wendy

---

From: "mwhitty" < mwhitty@optusnet. com.au >
Reply-To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
To: < PotaDG@yahoogroups. com >
Subject: [PotaDG] Fan presence at conventions.
Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 08:15:01 +1000

You know if there wasnt this whopping great ocean between us I would certainly travel around the COUNTRY, but its just TOOO far!

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of PofTAfan@aol. com
Sent: Sunday, 5 August 2007 12:41 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "POTA does not sell."

When I was at the Con in San Diego , I was wearing my Planet
of the Apes t-shirt with Zira on the front and I had several people
asked me about the shirt I was wearing. The problem with apes is that
the
business community doesn't see any money in it. I also see that these
so-called shirts like to see these fan clubs at these convention, I saw
the usual fan clubs at the convention(i. e Star Wars, Star Trek)
and other major fan clubs, I even saw smaller fan clubs at the con,
including a Battle of the Planet fan club who I talked to one of their
members and he told me that they have thousands of members
worldwide, but only 35 of 40 members show up.

Apes could sell, but in my opinion only if ape fans show up
in numbers. We should show up at these convention and show our love to
Apes, even if 10 people show up.

Kevin

---

Messenger Cafi  open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily. Visit now.

Well, ol' Siggy was a psychoanalyst who interpreted dreams, right? I think he would look at the opening scene of PLANET... see that Taylor was joining his crew in their drug-induced "long sleep"... and interpret everything that happens after the opening credits sequence as one long, bizarre, nightmare. Everything that "happens" to the three surviving (male) astronauts doesn't really happen -- it's all in the subconscious mind of Taylor. Stewart isn't really dead... the ship didn't really sink into a lake... they didn't really find a species of subhumans being hunted by English-speaking gorillas riding horses... it's all a drug-induced hallucination experienced by Taylor, who is still in hibernation aboard his interstellar spacecraft!

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mwhitty" <mwhitty@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Patrick.
>
>
>
> I wonder what Freud would have to say about al this? :-)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> patrickmichaeltilton
> Sent: Tuesday, 7 August 2007 1:24 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Calendar musings
>
>
>
> Not that anybody's interested, but in my next-to-last post -- about my
> hypothetical Ape lunisolar calendar -- I made a mistake. I transposed the
> number "6939" to the (incorrect) "3969" (in the second paragraph below):
>
> The calendar I've devised, then, takes the 19-year Cycle of 6939.6882821
> days and rounds it to 6939 days 16 hours exactly = 6939.666666... so that 3
> Cycles = 57 years = 20,819 days.
>
> The 3-Cycle system has 6940 + 3969 + 6940 days, in a repeating cycle. Like
> the Jewish Calendar, this Ape Calendar adds a 13th month in Years 3, 6, 8,
> 11, 14, 17, and 19 [of the 19-year Cycle]. But, to synchronize the lunar
> phases, the lengths of the months in each of those 19 years will require a
> certain unavoidable amount of complication.
>
> This last paragraph should read: "The 3-Cycle system has 6940 + 6939 + 6940
> days, in a repeating cycle..." so that the grand total of those 3 Cycles
> (or, 3 x 19 = 57 years) equals 20,819 days.
>
> We now return to our regularly scheduled programming...
>
> Patrick
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@...> wrote:
>
> I have found all the postings lately to be of interest to throw in
some more comments and questions
>
> As some of you know I deal in collectibles in sci-fi and mostly
music and culture related items
>
> The debate about fans getting too old to support fandom is
something I am always wondering about.
>
> Do we presume that POTA support should stay strong forever?
> I do agree with the comment "out of sight, out of mind"
> If there is no major new POTA items to get the public interested
than it simply becomes old news
>
> It is very important to note that Star Wars and Star Trek have
never really taken breaks from merchandise in some form or other
> It is continually pushed - partially because it is already strong
but partially to keep it strong in the future
>
> POTA has had a new movie in 2001 - but other than that no multi-
media to reach the masses since the tv movies in 1981
> So as the interest in 1960s culture slowlystarts to fade away
there might not be anyone in the next generation to grow up and keep
the flame burning with interest
>
> There will always be some fans that have some unique in nostalgia
etc but is it enough to promote new merchandise around it
> 2001 Space Odyssey was a bigger movie and more highly acclaimed
yet nobody is continually pushing new materials to promote it
> so why should POTA expect more?
> Yes there was more movies and tv series but still that is 35 years
ago !!
>
> When I started Ape Chronicles in 1991 it was too help support a
fan base for fans out there who were genuinely interested in the
series
> but hard to believe that is almost 20 yrs ago and all the fans
even my age have grown up.
>
> I, for one have propably "handled" more POTA stuff than anyone on
this list
> Yet even I, really dont save it all - I don't have a POTA shrine
in my house - my personal interest has always been in printed
materials so I do keep all the foreign comics etc but thats about it
>
> I usually dont buy stuff that I can easily get everyday
> So I see no huge interest in buying loose mego figures as cool as
they are.
> And I havent bought any of the POTA related toys that have come
out since 2001
> Some of you might recall that I went out on a limb to help promote
the 2001 movie and I tried carrying a full line of new POTA
merchandise
> well I invested $10,000.00 of my own money just to have it in
inventory - well nothing sold and eventually I cleaned it all out at
90% off on ebay
>
> I actually dont mind the movie - I even think they could
definitely make a sequel based on what they gave us
> It would still sell and make money and keep the POTA name in the
news
> but yes it has nothing to do with the original series
>
> I love Starsky And Hutch - and was mostly insulted when I saw the
new movie cause it simply makes fun of the original - but I guess
the movie guys feel its better to take that approach than do it
serious. It still brought awareness to the original series but
also at an expense.
>
> Anybody who takes the time and effort to put out a new POTA item
(comics, toys etc) should be patted on the back for at least trying
to help keep the fire burning and to show their appreciation to the
series. It doesnt mean you have to like it and not everything put
out is "good" but sometimes something is better than nothing.
>
> I dont find time to put Ape Chronicles out on a regular basis
cause simply put my life goes on and if its not profitable and there
isnt a lot of support than at this point in my life I see things
differently at 36 than I did at 20 and figure its not a priority at
the moment - but of course its always in the back of my mind to get
it out - cause I love doing it and love keeping the interesting up
in POTA
>
> Anyways I was just rambling thoughts - I got lots more to say but
we'll see what comments I get on what I've written so far - thanks
>

----- Original Message -----

From: nlmoxham

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 7:39 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Planet Of The Apes - does it still sell ?

Well, I sometimes wonder how the Burton movie will be judged by
future generations, after we're all gone. As someone who came to
POTAdom after that movie, I know that in the future fans might take
all Apes stuff as a whole and might be less harsh towards Burton. At
the risk of bringing down the wrath of the group, I didn't
completely hate that movie, I don't hate 'Terror', and I even quite
like 'Return'. Maybe that's just me, or maybe it's because I don't
remember being disappointed when they first came out. Will future
generations think of it as simply another of the Apes movies? On the
other hand, I find it very hard to imagine that many movies made in
the last 20 years or so will still have people discussing their
merits 40 years after they were made, since there's so little
originality and innovation in Hollywood today. Maybe people will
always (correctly) see the late 1960's to late 1970's as a golden
age of cinema, especially sci-fi.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com, Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@ ...> wrote:
>
> I have found all the postings lately to be of interest to throw in
some more comments and questions
>
> As some of you know I deal in collectibles in sci-fi and mostly
music and culture related items
>
> The debate about fans getting too old to support fandom is
something I am always wondering about.
>
> Do we presume that POTA support should stay strong forever?
> I do agree with the comment "out of sight, out of mind"
> If there is no major new POTA items to get the public interested
than it simply becomes old news
>
> It is very important to note that Star Wars and Star Trek have
never really taken breaks from merchandise in some form or other
> It is continually pushed - partially because it is already strong
but partially to keep it strong in the future
>
> POTA has had a new movie in 2001 - but other than that no multi-
media to reach the masses since the tv movies in 1981
> So as the interest in 1960s culture slowlystarts to fade away
there might not be anyone in the next generation to grow up and keep
the flame burning with interest
>
> There will always be some fans that have some unique in nostalgia
etc but is it enough to promote new merchandise around it
> 2001 Space Odyssey was a bigger movie and more highly acclaimed
yet nobody is continually pushing new materials to promote it
> so why should POTA expect more?
> Yes there was more movies and tv series but still that is 35 years
ago !!
>
> When I started Ape Chronicles in 1991 it was too help support a
fan base for fans out there who were genuinely interested in the
series
> but hard to believe that is almost 20 yrs ago and all the fans
even my age have grown up.
>
> I, for one have propably "handled" more POTA stuff than anyone on
this list
> Yet even I, really dont save it all - I don't have a POTA shrine
in my house - my personal interest has always been in printed
materials so I do keep all the foreign comics etc but thats about it
>
> I usually dont buy stuff that I can easily get everyday
> So I see no huge interest in buying loose mego figures as cool as
they are.
> And I havent bought any of the POTA related toys that have come
out since 2001
> Some of you might recall that I went out on a limb to help promote
the 2001 movie and I tried carrying a full line of new POTA
merchandise
> well I invested $10,000.00 of my own money just to have it in
inventory - well nothing sold and eventually I cleaned it all out at
90% off on ebay
>
> I actually dont mind the movie - I even think they could
definitely make a sequel based on what they gave us
> It would still sell and make money and keep the POTA name in the
news
> but yes it has nothing to do with the original series
>
> I love Starsky And Hutch - and was mostly insulted when I saw the
new movie cause it simply makes fun of the original - but I guess
the movie guys feel its better to take that approach than do it
serious. It still brought awareness to the original series but
also at an expense.
>
> Anybody who takes the time and effort to put out a new POTA item
(comics, toys etc) should be patted on the back for at least trying
to help keep the fire burning and to show their appreciation to the
series. It doesnt mean you have to like it and not everything put
out is "good" but sometimes something is better than nothing.
>
> I dont find time to put Ape Chronicles out on a regular basis
cause simply put my life goes on and if its not profitable and there
isnt a lot of support than at this point in my life I see things
differently at 36 than I did at 20 and figure its not a priority at
the moment - but of course its always in the back of my mind to get
it out - cause I love doing it and love keeping the interesting up
in POTA
>
> Anyways I was just rambling thoughts - I got lots more to say but
we'll see what comments I get on what I've written so far - thanks
>

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 9:52 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Planet Of The Apes - does it still sell ?

In a message dated 8/6/2007 10:57:18 PM Central Daylight Time, hoknescards@ shaw.ca writes:

Some of you might recall that I went out on a limb to help promote the 2001 movie and I tried carrying a full line of new POTA merchandise well I invested $10,000.00 of my own money just to have it in inventory - well nothing sold and eventually I cleaned it all out at 90% off on ebay.

*** That sounds like purely a money making plan on your part. The stuff was going to be widely available anyway, so why would you even invest so much in product that was going to be available everywhere: My guess is to profit, plain and simple. There was no desire to promote anything but growth of your pocketbook, and that's alright. There's nothing wrong with trying to make an honest buck. Your motives sound like they were pure commerce.Your saying you were trying to promote that film is the same as let's say TOYS R US, KayBee Toys, etc. saying they were trying to promote the film. The stores are in business to make money, not to promote anything, unless it's promoting sales of their goods. If those were your motives, that's fine, but don't set there and try to get us all to feel bad that you took a loss, nobody here suggested that you go "ape-shit" on investing in product that the market was saturated with (or was soon to be saturated with.)

That movie was bad news from the get go, and its the poor sales of it's merchandise that all the stores were stuck with that made any of them gun-shy of anything APES. ***

I love Starsky And Hutch - and was mostly insulted when I saw the new movie cause it simply makes fun of the original - but I guess the movie guys feel its better to take that approach than do it serious.   It still brought awareness to the original series but also at an expense.

*** And that's wrong that they did that. I am NOT a fan of anything being "made fun of" if it was meant to be serious (or at least dramatic or  action oriented) in it's original incarnation. And bringing awareness to the original is a poor trade off if the original was bastardized. ***

Anybody who takes the time and effort to put out a new POTA item (comics, toys etc) should be patted on the back for at least trying to help keep the fire burning and to show their appreciation to the series.  It  doesnt mean you have to like it and not everything put out is "good" but sometimes something is better than nothing.

*** Not true. I'd rather see APES die with dignity rather than having it dragged out one more time to squeeze one more dime out of it. APES should have went out on top and leaving people wanting rather than being milked til it's teat was blistered and near the point of falling off. "Something" is NOT always better than nothing. Having it have respect is better than having it's logo plastered on yet another piece of dime-store toys just so somebody can say "Well, it's something".. . APE-NATION was "something, now do you really think that was worth putting out so "something" was out there? ***


************ ********* ********* ********
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover. aol.com/memed/ aolcom30tour

----- Original Message -----

From: Terry Hoknes

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 8:46 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Planet Of The Apes - does it still sell ?

I have found all the postings lately to be of interest to throw in some more comments and questions

 

As some of you know I deal in collectibles in sci-fi and mostly music and culture related items

 

The debate about fans getting too old to support fandom is something I am always wondering about.

 

Do we presume that POTA support should stay strong forever?

I do agree with the comment "out of sight, out of mind"

If there is no major new POTA items to get the public interested than it simply becomes old news

 

It is very important to note that Star Wars and Star Trek have never really taken breaks from merchandise in some form or other

It is continually pushed - partially because it is already strong but partially to keep it strong in the future

 

POTA has had a new movie in 2001 - but other than that no multi-media to reach the masses since the tv movies in 1981

So as the interest in 1960s culture slowlystarts to fade away there might not be anyone in the next generation to grow up and keep the flame burning with interest

 

There will always be some fans that have some unique in nostalgia etc but is it enough to promote new merchandise around it

2001 Space Odyssey was a bigger movie and more highly acclaimed yet nobody is continually pushing new materials to promote it

so why should POTA expect more?  

Yes there was more movies and tv series but still that is 35 years ago !!

 

When I started Ape Chronicles in 1991 it was too help support a fan base for fans out there who were genuinely interested in the series

but hard to believe that is almost 20 yrs ago and all the fans even my age have grown up.

 

I, for one have propably "handled" more POTA stuff than anyone on this list

Yet even I, really dont save it all - I don't have a POTA shrine in my house - my personal interest has always been in printed materials so I do keep all the foreign comics etc but thats about it

 

I usually dont buy stuff that I can easily get everyday

So I see no huge interest in buying loose mego figures as cool as they are.

And I havent bought any of the POTA related toys that have come out since 2001

Some of you might recall that I went out on a limb to help promote the 2001 movie and I tried carrying a full line of new POTA merchandise

well I invested $10,000.00 of my own money just to have it in inventory - well nothing sold and eventually I cleaned it all out at 90% off on ebay

 

I actually dont mind the movie - I even think they could definitely make a sequel based on what they gave us

It would still sell and make money and keep the POTA name in the news

but yes it has nothing to do with the original series

 

I love Starsky And Hutch - and was mostly insulted when I saw the new movie cause it simply makes fun of the original - but I guess the movie guys feel its better to take that approach than do it serious.   It still brought awareness to the original series but also at an expense.

 

Anybody who takes the time and effort to put out a new POTA item (comics, toys etc) should be patted on the back for at least trying to help keep the fire burning and to show their appreciation to the series.  It  doesnt mean you have to like it and not everything put out is "good" but sometimes something is better than nothing.

 

I dont find time to put Ape Chronicles out on a regular basis cause simply put my life goes on and if its not profitable and there isnt a lot of support than at this point in my life I see things differently at 36 than I did at 20 and figure its not a priority at the moment - but of course its always in the back of my mind to get it out - cause I love doing it and love keeping the interesting up in POTA  

 

Anyways I was just rambling thoughts - I got lots more to say but we'll see what comments I get on what I've written so far - thanks

----- Original Message -----

From: Jeff K.

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:02 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Planet Of The Apes - does it still sell ?

  I've pretty much had my say on this topic except that my collecting of "Apes" has pretty much flattened too. Everybody has their own interests. I could imagine rebuying the same comic over and over because it's from another country, like Terry does. I prefer the action figures and other 3D representations. Terry doesn't get the interest in Megos but they were before his time. I wanted those as a kid so I wound up collecting them (just the POTA ones). Not mint in the package, just loose for about $20 each. And I've got some of the Sideshow figures, the Hasbro figures, a bunch of POTA2001 stuff (I like the design and they were all clearance priced). I don't even mind the cheesy ones, I just like "Ape" action figures. It's no different than someone who collects Hot Wheels, Care Bears or coins. Other people like POTA posters, another thing I never would've got into because of the prices for a piece of paper. But at a certain point I "scratched the itch". Maybe POTA lacks the "rabid" fans that the other successful shows have. And being age-specific does hurt. That's another reason these updates go in weird directions. Trying to appeal to the kids instead of being true to what made them popular in the first place. The ones that do big - "Spiderman", "Harry Potter" - stay true to their sources and don't disappoint the fans. But a lot of those high priced execs never learn.

  Finally, "2001: A Space Odyssey" is coming out on 2-disc DVD in a couple months, so DVD (and cable) keeps everything alive.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Terry Hoknes

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 8:46 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Planet Of The Apes - does it still sell ?

I have found all the postings lately to be of interest to throw in some more comments and questions

 

As some of you know I deal in collectibles in sci-fi and mostly music and culture related items

 

The debate about fans getting too old to support fandom is something I am always wondering about.

 

Do we presume that POTA support should stay strong forever?

I do agree with the comment "out of sight, out of mind"

If there is no major new POTA items to get the public interested than it simply becomes old news

 

It is very important to note that Star Wars and Star Trek have never really taken breaks from merchandise in some form or other

It is continually pushed - partially because it is already strong but partially to keep it strong in the future

 

POTA has had a new movie in 2001 - but other than that no multi-media to reach the masses since the tv movies in 1981

So as the interest in 1960s culture slowlystarts to fade away there might not be anyone in the next generation to grow up and keep the flame burning with interest

 

There will always be some fans that have some unique in nostalgia etc but is it enough to promote new merchandise around it

2001 Space Odyssey was a bigger movie and more highly acclaimed yet nobody is continually pushing new materials to promote it

so why should POTA expect more?  

Yes there was more movies and tv series but still that is 35 years ago !!

 

When I started Ape Chronicles in 1991 it was too help support a fan base for fans out there who were genuinely interested in the series

but hard to believe that is almost 20 yrs ago and all the fans even my age have grown up.

 

I, for one have propably "handled" more POTA stuff than anyone on this list

Yet even I, really dont save it all - I don't have a POTA shrine in my house - my personal interest has always been in printed materials so I do keep all the foreign comics etc but thats about it

 

I usually dont buy stuff that I can easily get everyday

So I see no huge interest in buying loose mego figures as cool as they are.

And I havent bought any of the POTA related toys that have come out since 2001

Some of you might recall that I went out on a limb to help promote the 2001 movie and I tried carrying a full line of new POTA merchandise

well I invested $10,000.00 of my own money just to have it in inventory - well nothing sold and eventually I cleaned it all out at 90% off on ebay

 

I actually dont mind the movie - I even think they could definitely make a sequel based on what they gave us

It would still sell and make money and keep the POTA name in the news

but yes it has nothing to do with the original series

 

I love Starsky And Hutch - and was mostly insulted when I saw the new movie cause it simply makes fun of the original - but I guess the movie guys feel its better to take that approach than do it serious.   It still brought awareness to the original series but also at an expense.

 

Anybody who takes the time and effort to put out a new POTA item (comics, toys etc) should be patted on the back for at least trying to help keep the fire burning and to show their appreciation to the series.  It  doesnt mean you have to like it and not everything put out is "good" but sometimes something is better than nothing.

 

I dont find time to put Ape Chronicles out on a regular basis cause simply put my life goes on and if its not profitable and there isnt a lot of support than at this point in my life I see things differently at 36 than I did at 20 and figure its not a priority at the moment - but of course its always in the back of my mind to get it out - cause I love doing it and love keeping the interesting up in POTA  

 

Anyways I was just rambling thoughts - I got lots more to say but we'll see what comments I get on what I've written so far - thanks

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "mwhitty" <mwhitty@...> wrote:
>
> I think we got like 3 orders and you just printed the 3 sets and
sent these
> out to people direct.
>
>
>
> I certainly don't have more than 2 of some of the issues.
>
>
>
> From (shabby!) memory, I think you sent a copy to everyone
involved (and 2
> to me - 1 of which I sent on to Neil) and we decided after having
mllions of
> posters and other comics left over we'd get an order first then
print them
> as required.?!?!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
>
>
> We'll I've been busy and therefore only lurking quietly for the
last
> few months here so let me chime in...
>
> I attended both the 2003 woorldcon in Toronto and the 2006 worlcon
in
> LA and as I reported to the DG at the time, I took all my POTA T-
> shirts and wore a different one each and every day of these cons to
> see what reaction or recognition I could muster.
>
> The results were disappointing to say the least. Toronto, I'm
ashamed
> to say, did not illicit even a raised eyebrow from anyone. LA was
> only slightly better with 2 or 3 people saying "Planet of the Apes,
> cool!" or something along those lines. Upon further prodding these
> people however, it was evident that they were only vaguely familiar
> with POTA. I was fortunate enough to run into Eric Green and had a
> nice short chat with him and also a little chat with Robert Sawyer
> which were the only POTA specific highligths for me. (I also found
the
> Simpsons POTA cutouts in Toronto, and repro mini POTA movie posters
in
> LA)
>
> The truth is, it was a discouraging to have such a lack of interest
or
> recognition. Of course there was an age factor involved, but there
> were plenty of older folks like myself as well and I initially
> expected a bit more.
>
> I also was not relying merely on "T-shirt recognition". Neil put
> together not one, but two graphic ads promoting the DG. I made a
whole
> bundle of copies for the Toronto con and while some may have been
> taken, the bulk were still sitting on the promo table on the last
day.
> In LA I also stuck an ad prominintly in the middle of the 'club
> promotion' board. All this to say that as far as I could tell,
nobody
> responded to these ads by joining the DG (unless of course some did
> but decided to remain lurkers).
>
> I wish I could say more positive things, but promoting POTA is like
> beating a dead horse. I ain't going anywhere. There are the few
brace
> stalwarts like myself, and most of you people here, but don't
expect
> more than that. I hope I don't sound bitter about it because I'm
not.
> But I am trying to be realistic.
>
> Micheal/Neil: So whats the pricing for the comics and prints? I'm
> working on my basement a lot these days (hence my recent silence)
and
> once it's done I'm gonna have walls to fill with POTA stuff.
(Actually
> I've already got lots of stuff, but I could always use more.)
>
> PS: I'll be in San Francisco at the end of the month. Anyplace a
POTA
> fan should see while there? There is a cartoon/comic museum that I
> plan on visiting.
>
> Dario
>

> It was Taylor's ship but to me that couldn't possibly work. Taylor's

> sank in an inland sea and I really doubt the apes had any technology

> retrieve it and get it in working order. Wouldn't have been smarter

> Brent's ship? Wouldn't it be easy to say they fixed it up?

When Kubrick -- who had a fear-of-flying -- took a ship across the Atlantic with his once-previewed (longer version of) 2001: A Space Odyssey , he edited it down to the current theatrical release length, cutting out at least 15 minutes of footage, if I remember right. I wonder if this new 2-disc DVD will include any of these scenes as "extras". It would be great to be able to see a longer "original-cut" version, like that first preview audience. What's great about DVDs is that they can configure 'em so that you have the option of seeing any of a number of version, with or without subtitling, in whatever language options are available.

I hear there's a new DVD release of Blade-Runner coming out, too, with even more extended footage (i.e. a longer unicorn-dream sequence). And we'll have the option of seeing either of several versions of the film, even the original theatrical release version with the godawful narration.

Blink twice and they'll release yet another DVD version of Planet of the Apes ... but, if the past is any indication, there'll be no real "extras" added to it, no "lost footage" we'd all love to see.

>Blink! Blink!<

Patrick

=========================================================

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/7/2007 1:18:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> veetus@... writes:
>
>
> > Finally, "2001: A Space Odyssey" is coming out on 2-disc DVD in a couple
> > months
> >
>
> Yes! And I'm very excited about it. Love that 2001! If Sideshow did
> Bowman, Poole, Moonwatcher and Star Child figures I'd probably buy them. I'm still
> waiting to get a Hal 9000 computer, but I haven't heard when they'll be coming
> out with them! Just this PC crap!
>
> -- Rory

Make a detour to the Sutter Street BART station and take pictures inside-and-out and especially above ground. The TV episode The Trap takes place there, if you'll remember! Of course, I don't expect the real sites to look anything like the exterior and interior sets they used to film that episode, but still... it'd be cool to see on-the-scene pics of the real thing!

Patrick

=========================================================

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
PS: I'll be in San Francisco at the end of the month. Anyplace a POTA fan should see while there? There is a cartoon/comic museum that I plan on visiting.

Dario

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <ironman1188@...> wrote:
>
> > It was Taylor's ship but to me that couldn't possibly work.
Taylor's
> ship
> > sank in an inland sea and I really doubt the apes had any
technology
> to
> > retrieve it and get it in working order. Wouldn't have been
smarter
> to have used
> > Brent's ship? Wouldn't it be easy to say they fixed it up?
>
> Not with the shape his ship was in. Massive damage with huge
pieces
> missing, and a big need for welding. LOL
> Honestly neither ship would have been flight worthy.
> I love the Apes but you have to be able to overlook some things. :)
>

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of tshaf37@...
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:39 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Introduction

Wouldn't have been smarter to have used Brent's ship? Wouldn't it be easy to say they fixed it up?

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of PofTAfan@...
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 2:11 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Fan Presence at Conventions

In my opinion the problem why "Planet of the Apes" is not
attracting newer, younger fans is that when you go to any conventions
anywhere in the world
you see many fan clubs there. Fan clubs like "Star Trek", "Star Wars",
"Farscape", any "Stargate" club and even smaller and vocal clubs
attends these functions, I
even saw a "Battle of the Planet" group there.

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Hoknes
Sent: Tuesday, August 07, 2007 1:46 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Planet Of The Apes - does it still sell ?

If there is no major new POTA items to get the public interested than it simply becomes old news

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwhitty
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:08 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Planet Of The Apes - does it still sell ?

Spider Pig – Spider Pig – Does whatever a Spider Pig does…..

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nlmoxham
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:39 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Planet Of The Apes - does it still sell ?

Well, I sometimes wonder how the Burton movie will be judged by
future generations,

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:28 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Introduction

Not with the shape his ship was in. Massive damage with huge pieces
missing, and a big need for welding. LOL
Honestly neither ship would have been flight worthy.

.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "eltf177" <eltf177@...> wrote:

The only big problem I have (which I understand many others do as well) are the continuity problems, understandable in such a massive series. For me, the biggest is exactly where did Cornelius, Zira and Milo get the ship they used in ESCAPE?

Looking forward to lively discussions with fellow fans!
____________________________________________________________________

So, what do we call ya? "Eltf177"? Most of us here are on a first-name basis, even when we vehemently disagree on some particulars. I'm Patrick, and it's nice to have you aboard.

In regards to the continuity problem you mention above, here's my take on it -- and, to preface it, you should know that I've been working (in my free time) on a Planet of the Apes epic novel project which involves (re-)novelizing all 5 movies and all 14 episodes, so that my complete POTA opus will be like an umbrella in which all of those 19 original stories are told, with original stuff added to it by me to "unflub" the very continuity errors that have bothered me, too, ever since I first began my fascination with these stories.

I'll try to make this as succinct as possible (which ain't easy). In my POTA project's scenario:

1) The 2 ships which the President (in ESCAPE ) says were "missing" -- and which the TV newscaster reported had "disintegrated in orbit" -- were the two almost identical ANSA spacecraft which had blasted off from Cape Kennedy.

2) The 1st of the two ships he mentioned was the one commanded by Colonel Virdon, which leaves Earth for Alpha Centauri in the late summer or early autumn of 1971 -- hence the President referring to it [in the autumn of 1973] as having gone "missing for over two years ". Virdon's mission to Alpha Centauri was a top-secret reconnaisance flight to the nearest interstellar neighbor, with a warp-drive engine that would get it there in almost exactly 9 years [of Earth-Time] and back to Earth again in another 9 years [again, of Earth-Time], for a total round-trip time of 18 years of Earth-Time... corresponding to a few days (at most) of Ship-Time. But Virdon's ship makes a too-close approach to a planet-mass black hole orbiting Alpha Centauri A, and the gravitational tides cause the timewarp which traps it there for about 1,105 Earth-Time years...

3) The 2nd ship to leave Earth (mentioned by the President) was "the one commanded by Colonel Taylor"... and this ship is the one we see being beached in the opening scenes of ESCAPE , not the ship we see in the opening scenes of PLANET . Taylor -- accompanied by 2 fellow ANSA astronauts -- lifted off from Cape Kennedy on January 14/15 in 1972 about 4 or 5 months after Virdon's ship launched. Taylor's ship -- just like Virdon's ship -- had a "gull-wing" hatch on the port side of the cockpit/cabin.

4) Taylor's ship -- an ANSA shuttlecraft outfitted (like Virdon's ship) with a warpdrive designed based on Hasslein's knowledge of Space-Time -- does not "disintegrate in orbit" (as government disinformation, fed to the news media, pretends)... nor does it go "missing in space" (as this newly-elected President had falsely been led to believe). Rather, it docks to a larger ship (a "mothership" or command ship), where 2 other ANSA shuttles are already docked to it.

5) Those other 2 ANSA shuttles are the ones we see in PLANET and BENEATH , equipped with 4 hibernacula behind the 4-seater cockpit section and behind which there is an aft airlock -- accessible through the pressure hatch in the "back wall" -- which leads to another hatch in the airlock's "floor" leading to the docking port to the ANSA command ship's airlocks. In other words, the 3-seater ship which Taylor and 2 other astronauts launch from Cape Kennedy is not the same ship in which Taylor and 3 other astronauts (Landon, Dodge and Stewart) spend their "long sleep" of hibernation for 12 months of Ship-Time.

6) When Taylor and those 3 other astronauts go into hibernation, they constitute just one of several crews involved in this multi-ship expedition. Taylor was the commander of the 3-seater ANSA ship when it traveled from Cape Kennedy up to its docking position inside a shuttlecraft hangar inside the Orion Mission's command ship... but afterwards he was just one of 3 subordinates to a higher-ranking officer who commanded the entire mission. Taylor's 3-seater shuttle was the last "component" needed to complete the total complement of the Orion Mission, the command ship being positioned at the Lagrange point beyond the lunar farside. Once they were docked to it, the command ship -- with two 4-seater ANSA shuttles and one 3-seater ANSA shuttle attached/docked to it -- warped out of the Earth+Moon gravitational well towards their destination... a sunlike star system 320 lightyears away from Earth in the constellation Orion, where Taylor knew an Earth-like planet orbited, awaiting their arrival, which was due to arrive after 18 months of Ship-Time (i.e. from mid-January of 1972 to mid-July of 1973 according to their ships' SHIP-TIME chronometers), which corresponds to 2,006.85 years of Earth-Time (i.e. from mid-January of 1972 until late-November of 3978 according to their ships' EARTH-TIME chronometers).

7) After Taylor and the 3 astronauts he refers to as "my crew" go into hibernation -- when other ANSA astronauts who are commanded by other colonels in this United States "Star Force" are still awake -- the blastwave of the artificially-induced supernova of their destination star hits their position. The ANSA computers controlling the Orion Mission command ship's telemetry are locked-in, so they have no choice but to continue on towards a destination which will be utterly decimated... though the hibernating astronauts have no way of knowing that.

8) As Virdon's ship continues to timewarp ahead from its arrival-at-Alpha Centauri date [August 19, 1980] onwards into the Future, Virdon orders Jones to activate the EMERGENCY HOMING DEVICE and, after that is done, Virdon gives the ship's hyperdrive extra juice so that it makes a jump through hyperspace at many many times the speed of light, escaping the gravitational pull of the black hole that had trapped them. But their trajectory takes their warpfield through a wormhole which they "enter" on July 14, 3085... and "exit" (in Earth's gravity well) on March 21, 3085. In other words, by using their ship's EMERGENCY HOMING DEVICE in the vicinity of a black hole, they've jumped through hyperspace -- or, hyperspace-time -- backwards through Earth-Time about 115 days. An "outside observer" would "see" a warpfield zipping from near the Earth on March 21st out towards Alpha Centauri at what would appear to be about 13.78 times the speed of light, "arriving" there on July 14th, "later".

9) Similarly, when the Orion Mission command ship gets to its destination in a dead star system dominated by a black hole which once was the sunlike star Taylor expected to see, those who are awake during their arrival eventually make a too-close approach to the more massive black hole, but not so close as to suffer gravity-induced time dilation similar to what Virdon's ship endured. But, to escape from that region of space, the Orion Mission command ship must also activate its own EMERGENCY HOMING DEVICE while boosting its warpdrive power so that it, too, winds up back at Earth after also having travelled backwards through Earth-Time.

10) Virdon's ship zipped back to Earth at a rate of (roughly) 26.5 negative days per lightyear, since the distance from Alpha Centauri to Earth [4.34 ly] divided into those (roughly) 115 days of Earth-Time yields (roughly) 26.5 days, from July 14th backwards to March 21st. At that same rate of negative 26.5 days per lightyear, the Orion Mission's command ship makes its jump through hyperspace so that (roughly) 26.5 negative days per lightyear times 320 lightyears equals (roughly) 8,480 days of Earth-Time . In other words, one moment the Orion Mission is 320 lightyears away from Earth on 11-25-3978... and then they jump through hyperspace and end up back at Earth on 7-01-3955. They time-traveled backwards through Time just over 23 years, from 3978 to 3955, and all of the ANSA Earth-Time chronometers register this change-in-time except for the one in the 4-seater shuttle in which Taylor and his crew are hibernating , due to the telemetry feed from the Command Ship's computer not having been fed into the computer systems of that single shuttlecraft.

11) Taylor's shuttlecraft, somehow having gotten detached ("unplugged") from its docking socket, falls towards the center of the planet Earth -- its trajectory, of course, carrying it on a collision course first with the atmosphere and secondly with the ground in which it will crash unless the crew can wake up and activate their retro-rocket propulsion systems... or, unless their falling shuttle can be remotely piloted by somebody in a line-of-sight trajectory that follows them down to the surface from the location they started to fall from.

12) Thus, 3 of the ANSA astronauts in the Command Ship quickly don their helmeted spacesuits and jump into the very shuttle that Taylor (and 2 others) had launched from Cape Kennedy... in order to fly it out of the shuttlebay of the Command Ship and follow the falling ship in which Taylor's crew is still sleeping. This orbit-to-landing trajectory is recorded into this ANSA shuttle's navigational computer. Taylor's falling ship has a head start, but they rocket forward to catch up to its position near enough so that they can establish a ship-to-ship radio link... so that one of the three ANSA astronauts on the following shuttle can remotely control the unpiloted falling ship down to a remotely-piloted and relatively safe landing.

13) Landon will later mention that their ship had not been programmed to land in the water, and Taylor had mentioned that he had left the ship "on full automatic, in the hands of the computers"... and the only way, then, that the ship could undergo those pitching/yawing/rolling maneuvers prior to splashing down into Dead Lake is if somebody else had overridden the "full automatic" computer control -- to do a remote-control landing of the ship in the safest spot available.

14) After remotely-piloting Taylor's ship to its Dead Lake splashdown site, the crew of the 3-seater ship lands their ship somewhere on the shoreline of the ocean well beyond the location of the Statue of Liberty [Cornelius, in ESCAPE, will later tell the Presidential Commission that Milo had found the spacecraft "on our seaboard" and he uses the word " sea" -- in PLANET and BENEATH -- to refer to the ocean, not to the land-locked lake he names "Dead Lake ]. As Taylor and the two survivors of his shuttle begin their expedition, those other three ANSA astronauts -- several miles away -- begin to have their own adventure. Before they leave their ship (which they successfully landed on its tripod landing struts), they take off their helmeted pressure suits [which the Ape-onauts will later use] and program the shuttle's navigational computer for a surface-to-orbit "burn" trajectory, just in case they should need to launch it quickly. These 3 astronauts know that they're back on Earth... but Taylor doesn't. Taylor assumes that he has woken up on the Earth-like planet orbiting the Sun-like star 320 lightyears from Earth in Orion, all due to having seen the wrong Earth-Time date on the chronometer [11-25-3978].

15) Brent (and his "skipper"), hibernating aboard the only other ANSA shuttle docked to the Orion Mission command ship, also will not know that they've not only reached their destination but then gone all the way back to Earth. In order to boost the Command Ship to a safe orbit, Brent's shuttle is remotely piloted out of its docking socket and onto an orbital path of its own; Brent and his "skipper" will be kept in hibernation to conserve vital supplies of food, water, and air.

16) After the orbiting Command Ship personnel lose contact with the 3-person landing party that had attempted to rendezvous with Taylor's crew, they use a ship-to-ship computer radio link to upload the orbit-to-landing trajectory from the landed shuttle... and download it into the computer of Brent's ship, so that when Brent's ship reaches the appropriate position, its rockets can fire and put it on the same trajectory that got the prior two ships down to their landing sites in the Forbidden Zone region.

17) When Brent and his "skipper" are awoken from their hibernation, they are in brief contact with the personnel who are in the command ship. They learn that Taylor's ship is down on the planet below and that "Taylor's trajectory" -- the orbit-to-surface landing flightpath -- is programmed into their flight computer, so that their ship will land in the same general vicinity, with orders to find and rescue Taylor (and his crew). But... Brent and his "skipper" are not (yet) told that the planet below is the Earth: they would've learned this, but they lose their radio contact with the other orbiting ship at the worst possible time. Brent, just before their re-entry maneuver, sees that the Earth-Time clock gives the year as "3955"... and he assumes that the planet below them is a planet orbiting a star that is almost 320 lightyears away from Earth. He doesn't know that they've all gone back to Earth and back through Time. He expected to wake up in the year 3978 at their destination, 320 lightyears away from Earth. Instead, it "seems" to him as if they've only warped out to a star that is about 98.85% of the way, or 316.33 lightyears from Earth. At a rate of about 6.2714 Earth-Time years per lightyear, it takes 2006.85 Earth-Time years to travel the full distance of 320 LY... so that the "3955" date (Brent thinks) must mean that they made it almost but not all the way there. He assumes he's on an alien planet which (luckily) has a breathable atmosphere. His "skipper" -- having been blinded and mortally injured -- soon dies.

18) Taylor will never know why he ended up back on Earth -- though he might speculate that an EMERGENCY HOMING DEVICE had been activated, since it is an almost obvious conclusion to draw. He seems to have suspected that the unexpected splashdown of his ship is due to the Command Ship having been compromised somehow -- perhaps by the meltdown of its nuclear power reactor -- necessitating the emergency procedure of salvaging the other ships (the shuttles) via other navigational programs designed to get those warp-capable shuttles to the destination even if the Command Ship were to be compromised.

19) At any rate, at some point Milo -- who violates the same taboo that Cornelius did earlier, when he worked at his dig-site in the Forbidden Zone -- will venture further along the shoreline of the ocean (on the Forbidden Zone side). He will probably go by boat, seeing the half-buried Statue of Liberty where Taylor had been, and where he (with Nova on horseback) had been forced to double back down the beach, since the shoreline was impassable beyond the Statue due to the rocks and the waves blocking the way. Milo, in a boat, will continue on past the buried statue several miles... where he will discover the ANSA 3-seater shuttle propped on its tripod landing section, awaiting its missing crew.

20) After inspecting the ANSA shuttle, Milo deduces that it is the ship in which Taylor must have landed -- even though he is wrong about that [Taylor's ship had landed in the nearby lake]. He knows that it seats 3 people... which means that he and 2 others could conceivably fly in it. So, he takes his boat back to the river which empties into the ocean, and (perhaps) rides a horse from there to Ape City. Soon after Ursus' army leaves Ape City, Milo arrives there and hurriedly informs Zira and Cornelius about his amazing discovery. They take another boat downriver (out of sight of the Ape Army) and make their way to the ocean and beyond... sailing along the shoreline past the Statue of Liberty and on to the site of the ANSA ship perched ready for launch. After donning the pressure suits and strapping into the chairs, Milo -- who has studied the cockpit's button controls -- presses the button that puts into motion the pre-programmed surface-to-orbit "burn"...

Just in time for them to blast off into a low-Earth orbit, and to see the "bright white blinding light" that is the explosion of the Doomsday Bomb. The explosion creates a mini-mass black hole (due to the hyper-"implosion" part of this nasty nuke)... which falls towards the center of the Earth, gobbling up the Earth's mass at an ever-accelerating rate until the entire planet implodes below the Event Horizon of the destroyed planet/black hole. The ship is oriented so that they can see the planet out the front windows, ahead of them. The ship, as it falls back towards the planet -- towards a surface that is no longer there -- begins to experience stresses due to the higher gravitational pull as they near the Event Horizon. The ship automatically activates the only safety-valve it has: its warp engine , which encases the ship (and a "bubble" of empty space around it) in a cocoon of hyperspace. This warpfield zooms ahead, towards the center of the black hole, breaching the Event Horizon and the spinning Singularity at its center.

Just as Virdon's ship and the Orion Mission command ship had both zipped backwards through Time by going into warp in the vicinity of a black hole, so too does this Ape-onaut ship... the Earth-Time clock clicking backwards until the date registers the same date which is on the Ship-Time clock: 09-25-1973. The warpfield winks off -- probably due to some aspect of the programming which prevents the Earth-Time clock from ever registering a time which conflicts with causality. Thus, when the Ape-onauts land, both clocks register the same date: 09-25-1973. It is as if Taylor's ship had never warped away from Earth at all... except for the fact that it has experienced almost 21 months of Ship-Time. The NASA technicians who are given this ANSA ship to study will see not only that it has an Earth-Time chronometer (!) but that the ship's telemetry record indicates that it clicked ahead from 01-14-1972 to 11-25-3978... then backwards from 11-25-3978 to 07-01-3955... and then backwards again from 09-11-3955 to 09-25-1973, the Ship-Time chronometer having merely clicked ahead from 01-14-1972 to 09-25-1973. NASA will discover that this ship -- vastly more advanced than their own lunar-mission spacecraft -- had traveled interstellar distances and had gone back in Time on two separate occasions before undergoing re-entry and landing off the coast of California!

There's a whole hell of a lot more to my novel's scenario, but this outline gives you the rough idea. I've re-interpreted the 3 ships seen in PLANET, BENEATH , and ESCAPE as three shuttlecraft vehicles which are connected with a larger mission ship... similar to the scenario in Boulle's original novel, if you'll recall. It serves to make the details given on-screen make sense. Or, to make better sense, if you will. Not that this is what the filmmakers intended, of course. But their "mistakes" were practically begging for some way to be explained in a more logical way. To be "unflubbed" as it were. There are some here in Yahooland who like my scenario... and, sure enough, there are some who do not like it, which is fine by me. It serves its purpose, though, and has helped me to further flesh out more of the behind-the-scenes events that take place before, during, and after the events of each of the movies and TV episodes.

I hope you like it. But, even if you don't dig it, that's okay too, and welcome to this chat group!

Patrick Michael Tilton [you can call me Patrick]

EARTH-TIME 08-09-2007

 

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:

In a message dated 8/9/2007 3:58:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:


I wonder if this new 2-disc DVD will include any of these scenes as "extras".

That would be nice, but Kubrick was known to destroy all unused footage, sets, plans for sets, models, etc., because he didn't want them used in anything else.

-- Rory


*** That's true of his "2001" props, but I doubt if he would've thrown away the edited-out footage. When Ridley Scott was forced to give BLADE-RUNNER a happy ending for its theatrical release, he got the footage used at the end from Kubrick's extra footage he'd had shot for the opening credits sequence of THE SHINING. If Kubrick saved that extra helicopter footage (which he never used), then I suspect he kept all the unused footage from "2001" too. He was known to film upwards of 50 or more takes for each scene, remember. The one who would know about all the "lost" Kubrick footage -- from all the films he had complete creative control over -- is his widow.

Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nlmoxham
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 12:39 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Planet Of The Apes - does it still sell ?

Well, I sometimes wonder how the Burton movie will be judged by
future generations, after we're all gone. As someone who came to
POTAdom after that movie, I know that in the future fans might take
all Apes stuff as a whole and might be less harsh towards Burton.

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwhitty
Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007 9:03 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Planet Of The Apes - does it still sell ?

Even Neil and I have largely different opinions on it and we do comics together!

.

----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:02 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Planet Of The Apes - does it still sell ?

In a message dated 8/9/2007 3:58:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilto n@... writes:

I wonder if this new 2-disc DVD will include any of these scenes as "extras".

That would be nice, but Kubrick was known to destroy all unused footage, sets, plans for sets, models, etc., because he didn't want them used in anything else.

-- Rory


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