----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:47 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

While I prefer the SIMPSONS episodes Matt Groening writes, there’s some rippers he had nothing to do with as well.

There’s plenty of arguments for and against others having a go – I guess it really depends on the quality of the outcome!

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2007 11:28 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

I agree......They should let them go with their originators. ...although that would put my cousin out of work....He;s the fourth generation writer of "Gasoline Alley"!


"Jeff K." <veetus@earthlink. net> wrote:

  It sucks that someone else is doing it. I'm glad that Charles Schultz's family set it up so no one could do "Charlie Brown" after he was gone. Though they still do the TV stuff. Let this stuff die gracefully. There's always the reprint books.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: POTA ; POTA DG

Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:03 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

Not really a great fan of this American Comic Strip.....mostly because of it's extreme religious undertones before it's creator died...it's drawn by someone else now.....thought I'd share this morning's... .Not all that funny really...but still.....!
Tim

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----- Original Message -----

From: Ty Templeton

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:24 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

Slightly off the POTA track, but the Simpsons came up.

Matt has written very very few episodes of the show, less than a half dozen in the last fifteen years, I'll wager, and I don't think I can come up with any, other than the pilot and the Tracy Shorts. Although he's very much the head of the family, the show was always intended to be the work of many, many hands, most prominently James Brooks, Brad Bird, John Swartzwelder, and tons of other people, from day one (and nowadays, myself, toiling in the books and comics dept.) 

For something as personal as a comic strip, always the work of a single human mind, I'll grant you it should probably be put to rest with the original creator.  That's why I was pleased to see Peanuts bow out with Charles Shultz, but the Simpsons has always been a group effort.  (Personally I believe the best episodes are the ones written by Shwartzwelder and the small, but delightful number of episodes written by Conan O'Brien.)

Onto a POTA note.   I'll guess most of us here prefer the script to the original POTA movie above the the novel by Boulle; I know I do.  I think Wilson and Serling's work, over someone else's creation, led to a fabulous NEW thing we all admire.  And the later work by Dehn, some of it good, some of it, not so much, still entertained the hell out of all of us. 

I think the best solution, is to let it happen, and let the fans decide what should or shouldn't be done with other people's creations after they pass away, or stop working on it.  We the fans, instinctively know when it's okay.   Pogo attempted to continue after Walt Kelly died (notably with his wife and inking assistants continuing on, with little change in visual style) but it didn't last more than a year because the fans knew it.  But James Bond seems to thrive in the absence of Ian Fleming lately, and does anyone really notice that Bob Kane and Bill Finger haven't worked on Batman since the Fifties?  There's been some good Batman since the fifties.

BY THE WAY.  I was talking to our publisher this week, and the Revolution graphic novel is absolutely coming out before Christmas.  I'm as surprised as you guys, but it's actually coming out.  WOO HOO!

And in other MrComics news....    www.hoverboy. com    is up and running, with a funny film about Hoverboy featuring my ugly face, and a few other interesting people. 

Ty the Guy

On 10/13/07, Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@ bigpond.com> wrote:

While I prefer the SIMPSONS episodes Matt Groening writes, there's some rippers he had nothing to do with as well.

 

There's plenty of arguments for and against others having a go – I guess it really depends on the quality of the outcome!

 

Michael

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2007 11:28 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

 

I agree......They should let them go with their originators. ...although that would put my cousin out of work....He;s the fourth generation writer of "Gasoline Alley"!


"Jeff K." <veetus@earthlink. net> wrote:

  It sucks that someone else is doing it. I'm glad that Charles Schultz's family set it up so no one could do "Charlie Brown" after he was gone. Though they still do the TV stuff. Let this stuff die gracefully. There's always the reprint books.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: POTA ; POTA DG

Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:03 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

 

Not really a great fan of this American Comic Strip.....mostly because of it's extreme religious undertones before it's creator died...it's drawn by someone else now.....thought I'd share this morning's....Not all that funny really...but still.....!
Tim

---

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----- Original Message -----

From: Ty Templeton

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 11:01 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Hoverboy

Cover was sketched by me, and painted by a guy named Jason Edmiston.  And yeah, the Statue of Liberty is a reference. 

Ty

On 10/14/07, Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@ bigpond.com> wrote:

What a cool cover!

 

And a POTA link?

 

Who did this?

\

 

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Ty Templeton
Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2007 2:25 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

 

Slightly off the POTA track, but the Simpsons came up.

Matt has written very very few episodes of the show, less than a half dozen in the last fifteen years, I'll wager, and I don't think I can come up with any, other than the pilot and the Tracy Shorts. Although he's very much the head of the family, the show was always intended to be the work of many, many hands, most prominently James Brooks, Brad Bird, John Swartzwelder, and tons of other people, from day one (and nowadays, myself, toiling in the books and comics dept.) 

For something as personal as a comic strip, always the work of a single human mind, I'll grant you it should probably be put to rest with the original creator.  That's why I was pleased to see Peanuts bow out with Charles Shultz, but the Simpsons has always been a group effort.  (Personally I believe the best episodes are the ones written by Shwartzwelder and the small, but delightful number of episodes written by Conan O'Brien.)

Onto a POTA note.   I'll guess most of us here prefer the script to the original POTA movie above the the novel by Boulle; I know I do.  I think Wilson and Serling's work, over someone else's creation, led to a fabulous NEW thing we all admire.  And the later work by Dehn, some of it good, some of it, not so much, still entertained the hell out of all of us. 

I think the best solution, is to let it happen, and let the fans decide what should or shouldn't be done with other people's creations after they pass away, or stop working on it.  We the fans, instinctively know when it's okay.   Pogo attempted to continue after Walt Kelly died (notably with his wife and inking assistants continuing on, with little change in visual style) but it didn't last more than a year because the fans knew it.  But James Bond seems to thrive in the absence of Ian Fleming lately, and does anyone really notice that Bob Kane and Bill Finger haven't worked on Batman since the Fifties?  There's been some good Batman since the fifties.

BY THE WAY.  I was talking to our publisher this week, and the Revolution graphic novel is absolutely coming out before Christmas.  I'm as surprised as you guys, but it's actually coming out.  WOO HOO!

And in other MrComics news....    www.hoverboy. com    is up and running, with a funny film about Hoverboy featuring my ugly face, and a few other interesting people. 

Ty the Guy

.

----- Original Message -----

From: Ty Templeton

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2007 9:16 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Hoverboy

I wasn't too worried if people "got" it or not.  I just figured, since Mr. Comics published POTA, and they're publishing Hoverboy, we'd do a minor shout out that made sense.

Ty

On 10/14/07, Jeff K. <veetus@earthlink. net> wrote:

  Great cover, but the Statue of Liberty/apocalypse theme has become so diluted by use, does it even make people think of POTA any more?

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Ty Templeton

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 11:01 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Hoverboy

Cover was sketched by me, and painted by a guy named Jason Edmiston.  And yeah, the Statue of Liberty is a reference. 

Ty

On 10/14/07, Michael & Sally Whitty < sallywhitty@ bigpond.com> wrote:

What a cool cover!

 

And a POTA link?

 

Who did this?

\

 

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Ty Templeton
Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2007 2:25 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

 

Slightly off the POTA track, but the Simpsons came up.

Matt has written very very few episodes of the show, less than a half dozen in the last fifteen years, I'll wager, and I don't think I can come up with any, other than the pilot and the Tracy Shorts. Although he's very much the head of the family, the show was always intended to be the work of many, many hands, most prominently James Brooks, Brad Bird, John Swartzwelder, and tons of other people, from day one (and nowadays, myself, toiling in the books and comics dept.) 

For something as personal as a comic strip, always the work of a single human mind, I'll grant you it should probably be put to rest with the original creator.  That's why I was pleased to see Peanuts bow out with Charles Shultz, but the Simpsons has always been a group effort.  (Personally I believe the best episodes are the ones written by Shwartzwelder and the small, but delightful number of episodes written by Conan O'Brien.)

Onto a POTA note.   I'll guess most of us here prefer the script to the original POTA movie above the the novel by Boulle; I know I do.  I think Wilson and Serling's work, over someone else's creation, led to a fabulous NEW thing we all admire.  And the later work by Dehn, some of it good, some of it, not so much, still entertained the hell out of all of us. 

I think the best solution, is to let it happen, and let the fans decide what should or shouldn't be done with other people's creations after they pass away, or stop working on it.  We the fans, instinctively know when it's okay.   Pogo attempted to continue after Walt Kelly died (notably with his wife and inking assistants continuing on, with little change in visual style) but it didn't last more than a year because the fans knew it.  But James Bond seems to thrive in the absence of Ian Fleming lately, and does anyone really notice that Bob Kane and Bill Finger haven't worked on Batman since the Fifties?  There's been some good Batman since the fifties.

BY THE WAY.  I was talking to our publisher this week, and the Revolution graphic novel is absolutely coming out before Christmas.  I'm as surprised as you guys, but it's actually coming out.  WOO HOO!

And in other MrComics news....    www.hoverboy. com    is up and running, with a funny film about Hoverboy featuring my ugly face, and a few other interesting people. 

Ty the Guy

.

  Well, TV is different. You need so much material other people have to write it. But a comic strip, something one individual has been doing for 50 years, should be left alone. By then it's run it's course anyway. I guess creators can put a stop to it. No one picked up the baton on "Calvin and Hobbes" and "The Far Side", and those left when they were very popular.  Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:47 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

While I prefer the SIMPSONS episodes Matt Groening writes, there�s some rippers he had nothing to do with as well.

There�s plenty of arguments for and against others having a go � I guess it really depends on the quality of the outcome!

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2007 11:28 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

I agree......They should let them go with their originators. ...although that would put my cousin out of work....He;s the fourth generation writer of "Gasoline Alley"!


"Jeff K." <veetus@earthlink. net> wrote:

  It sucks that someone else is doing it. I'm glad that Charles Schultz's family set it up so no one could do "Charlie Brown" after he was gone. Though they still do the TV stuff. Let this stuff die gracefully. There's always the reprint books.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: POTA ; POTA DG

Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:03 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

Not really a great fan of this American Comic Strip.....mostly because of it's extreme religious undertones before it's creator died...it's drawn by someone else now.....thought I'd share this morning's... .Not all that funny really...but still.....!
Tim

---

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---

size=2 width="100%" align=center>

 

---

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Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

---

Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 8:37 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Hoverboy

I never thought of that!

Should start using the Sydney Opera House!  J  

 

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:07 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Hoverboy

I’d forgotten that page!  That’s where Begins began right?   J

.

----- Original Message -----
From: Ty Templeton <tybunny@...>
Date: Sunday, October 14, 2007 0:24 am
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] comic strip BC


> BY THE WAY. I was talking to our publisher this week, and the
> Revolutiongraphic novel is absolutely coming out before Christmas.
> I'm as surprised
> as you guys, but it's actually coming out. WOO HOO!
>

On 10/14/07, Michael & Sally Whitty < sallywhitty@...> wrote:

And I don't think Jim Davis wrote many more thank about 100 of Garfield…so it wouldn't count here either I don't reckon….

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Monday, 15 October 2007 7:22 AM

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

 

I can understand when a son takes over for a father like the Brownes and the Keanes....and didn't Ziggy get passed down?

the guy that took over Dennis the Menace daily strips,....Marcus Hamilton lives here in my city....his style is so much like Ketchum's it's hard to tell a differnce!

"Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:

  Well, TV is different. You need so much material other people have to write it. But a comic strip, something one individual has been doing for 50 years, should be left alone. By then it's run it's course anyway. I guess creators can put a stop to it. No one picked up the baton on "Calvin and Hobbes" and "The Far Side", and those left when they were very popular.  Jeff

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 6:47 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

 

While I prefer the SIMPSONS episodes Matt Groening writes, there�s some rippers he had nothing to do with as well.

There�s plenty of arguments for and against others having a go � I guess it really depends on the quality of the outcome!

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Sunday, 14 October 2007 11:28 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

I agree......They should let them go with their originators....although that would put my cousin out of work....He;s the fourth generation writer of "Gasoline Alley"!


"Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:

  It sucks that someone else is doing it. I'm glad that Charles Schultz's family set it up so no one could do "Charlie Brown" after he was gone. Though they still do the TV stuff. Let this stuff die gracefully. There's always the reprint books.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: POTA ; POTA DG

Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2007 9:03 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] comic strip BC

Not really a great fan of this American Comic Strip.....mostly because of it's extreme religious undertones before it's creator died...it's drawn by someone else now.....thought I'd share this morning's....Not all that funny really...but still.....!
Tim

---

Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more!

---

size=2 width="100%" align=center>

 

---

Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

 

�

---

Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- This page should explain evrything:
>
> https://pota.goatley.com/within.html"
>
> Neil
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "David Jackson" <Yoda_75@> wrote:
> > what is within?
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Melinda G Kettler <mgkettler@...>
Date: Monday, October 15, 2007 9:06 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] POTA Video

> Have y'all seen this video?? Just in case you haven't, go here:
>
> http://www.maniacworld.com/planet-of-the-apes-we-will-rock-you.html"
>
> Melinda
>
>
>
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

> Have y'all seen this video?? Just in case you
> haven't, go here:
>
>

>
> Melinda
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Ty Templeton" <tybunny@...> wrote:

Slightly off the POTA track, but the Simpsons came up.
... but the Simpsons has always been a group effort. (Personally I believe the best episodes are the ones written by Shwartzwelder and the small, but delightful number of episodes written by Conan O'Brien.)

The episode where Springfield is conned into investing in a monorail was written by Conan O'Brien, and to this day is the funniest one I've seen (though, admittedly, I haven't seen 'em all). When Homer saves the day, using a giant donut billboard thingy as a lasso to stop the out-of-control monorail train, he says: "Donuts... is there anything they can't do?" LOL! I can just see Conan O'Brien writing that. BTW, if you ever have a chance to see his Late Nite show live in NYC, do it -- as much fun as it is to watch on TV, it's even better in person.
 
Onto a POTA note. I'll guess most of us here prefer the script to the original POTA movie above the the novel by Boulle; I know I do. I think Wilson and Serling's work, over someone else's creation, led to a fabulous NEW thing we all admire. And the later work by Dehn, some of it good, some of it, not so much, still entertained the hell out of all of us.

Hear, hear!
 
There's been some good Batman since the fifties.

Just remember, though, "Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb!"

BY THE WAY. I was talking to our publisher this week, and the Revolution graphic novel is absolutely coming out before Christmas. I'm as surprised as you guys, but it's actually coming out. WOO HOO!

If I may quote Dodge & Landon as they jumped into the pond, "Wah-HOOOO!!!" This is great news. Although I may have my issues with the canonicity of the story told in REVOLUTION, it was a new POTA project with some great art (and, some not-so-great, but what-the-hell!) and with some interesting ideas thrown in... and I did enjoy it for what it was -- and I bought 2 copies of each issue when they came out. Just doin' my part for POTA, you know. And, I'll be buying 2 copies of the graphic novel, too. So, I'm happy as a termite-fishin' chimp that REVOLUTION is getting the GN treatment.

Patrick

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael & Sally Whitty" <sallywhitty@...> wrote:

Hey Patrick

In WITHIN Neil and I had Milo there well before Cornelius..BUT we knew this could be a problem so we made it that they were there without anyone's knowledge but Zaius.

However I think I fell over this by having Marcus report things to Ursus, suggesting that Marcus went into the FZ to spy.

Rewrite time! :-)
______________________________________________________________

Hey Mike

Taking all 5 films into account, it's obvious that Milo had to have ventured into the Forbidden Zone at some point, and there are any number of scenarios that can be cooked up to cover that.

I think it's imperative, though, that Milo -- whenever or however he traveled there -- did not do so on any official basis, with approval from Zaius and/or the Academy. Milo is a chimp, and Zaius "looks down his nose on chimpanzees" (according to Zira), right? In Cornelius' estimation, Milo was "a genius far in advance of his time"... but his genius wouldn't necessarily be recognized by Zaius and the orangutans; remember, Cornelius' own "brilliant hypothesis" was deemed by "half the Academy" to be Heresy! Chances are that Milo's brilliant hypotheses would similarly be deemed foolish at best -- and heretical at worst -- by the orangutan-controlled Academy.

My own take on this Milo-in-the-FZ plot involves two lines in PLANET , spoken by Zira and Cornelius, respectively. Zira mentions Cornelius' trip into the Forbidden Zone which had occurred "over a year ago" -- she mentions "his trip" and not "our trip"... indicating that Cornelius went there, but Zira herself did not go. But did Cornelius go there alone? No!

When Taylor asks Cornelius, "Where does this river lead to?", Cornelius tells him -- at one point -- that "we had no boats on our last expedition."

"We"...? That plural word implies that Cornelius had to have had at least one fellow explorer with him. He says "our last expedition"... meaning that it wasn't just his own, sole expedition.

We know from ESCAPE that Milo found the ANSA ship which they later flew up into orbit "on our seaboard" -- the word seaboard meaning the coast of the sea. And the word "sea" is used by Cornelius in BENEATH to denote not the lake into which the PLANET ship sank [i.e. "Dead Lake"], but the ocean. I have deduced that this third ANSA ship -- unlike the PLANET ship with its depleted power supplies and the BENEATH ship with its "computer... shot" -- had to have been landed by other ANSA astronauts somewhere further along the shoreline, beyond the half-buried Statue of Liberty. Taylor never saw it because once he reached the Statue, he and Nova couldn't get around it on horseback: they had to have backtracked on the beach, in the direction of the Cave but venturing inland before that. And, since that third spacecraft had to have had a Power supply and a working Computer, that rules out either of the two ships we'd already seen in the first two movies. Oh, and there's that gull-wing hatch in the ship's cockpit, too... proving that the third ship existed, and that there must have been other ANSA astronauts in the vicinity during the events of BENEATH (and PLANET ) who had landed it safely on the shore for Milo to later find.

Here's another thought: Cornelius worked at "the diggings"... at the Cave site, we know. But how did all that woodwork get built, and who built it? If it was only Cornelius and Milo together, not only mapping the Forbidden Zone to a great degree [i.e. the convoluted shoreline of Dead Lake which we see on Cornelius' map] but also carting all those logs from who-knows-where to the Cave site, and then constructing the causeway and the platform just outside the Cave's entrance... how much time would that have taken???

I submit the probability that Cornelius' expedition to the Forbidden Zone was done with a team of chimpanzee science students who were all willing to assist Dr. Cornelius in his illegal endeavours, with many of those students working at a DECOY site (where Zaius and the Academy thought Cornelius would be spending all his time), somewhere in the "allowed" areas covered by the Travel Permit. But there would also be a group of students helping Cornelius bring all the logs (etc) to the Cave site and building the causeway (etc) to his specifications. During those times, if any representative from the Academy were to go to the Decoy site, asking to speak to Cornelius, one of his students would give him the runaround, lying to him that Cornelius was somewhere else (yet not in the Forbidden Zone, of course).

I also submit that the artifacts which Cornelius found -- some of them, but not all of them, of course -- he brought back with him from the Cave site to the Decoy site and, when Zaius found him there at the Decoy site, Cornelius pretended to have discovered those artifacts at the Decoy site... but Zaius suspected that they came from a site in the Forbidden Zone. He suspected it, but couldn't prove it . However, on the suspicion that Cornelius had violated the law and gone into the Forbidden Zone, Zaius revoked his Travel Permit [preventing him from bringing more artifacts to that decoy site] and then bided his time, plotting to find some way to "expose" Cornelius... to get him to admit that he had violated the terms of his Travel Permit.

That's what the Tribunal/Hearing was all about: using Taylor as a feint to get Cornelius to blab the truth about having been to the Forbidden Zone. And Zaius' plan worked perfectly.

Back to Milo.

If the State keeps tabs on the whereabouts of its citizens -- forcing them to apply for Travel Permits in order to move around -- then why didn't they keep better tabs on Milo? It's evident that Milo wasn't stopped from his doings in the Forbidden Zone when Zaius put the kibosh on Cornelius' activities. Why not?

Well... what do we know about Milo? Not much. For all we know, Milo wasn't even a native to that part of the world! Maybe he was a traveler, having been born in the region where the TV show took place (Central City/California/West Coast)... and, at some point in his life, traveled across the continent to discover the Ape City area from inland.

Zaius wonders whether or not there is "another jungle beyond the Forbidden Zone"... but what about other habitable places beyond the other side of the Ape-inhabited region? There's a reference in the BENEATH novelization* that the entire habitable region was surrounded completely by desert -- though, admittedly, this dialogue isn't in the actual movie -- so that Zaius might also wonder what may lie beyond the desert regions further inland.

[* The reference is in the 4th chapter [URSUS ], where General Ursus says, "I saw our country imprisoned on one side by the sea, and by north and south and west--by naked desert." -- see page 27 of Michael Avallone's novelization. Among other things, this gives further evidence to the notion that Cornelius' map -- when he showed it to Taylor -- was positioned with WEST at the top... and, when he showed it to Brent, he indicated that "deep into the area" the Apes call the Forbidden Zone, Taylor's heading, was "towards the NORTH"... and not towards the East. Ah, but that's an argument we need not go into here!]

Back to Milo. Maybe he came from the California region. Who's to say?

Maybe, alternatively, Milo had faked his death and then traveled incognito, avoiding gorilla-manned garrisons and outposts so as to make secret trips of his own into the Forbidden Zone, both with and without Cornelius. If Cornelius' earlier trip into the Forbidden Zone was with the help of Milo and others (i.e. chimp science students), and if that trip did not involve the use of boats ["... and we had no boats on our last expedition... "], then perhaps Milo made other trips to the Cave site without Cornelius, in the time between Cornelius' first and second expeditions -- using boats to get from the "good" side of the Map to the "bad" (forbidden) side of the Map. Maybe Milo owned an estate on the actual oceanic coastline, and could then go out via boat far enough so as to not be seen by any gorilla sentries looking out from outposts along the shoreline. Who knows?

I submit the probability that Milo used boats of his own to get to the Cave site -- and beyond it, to the location further down the shoreline where that ANSA vehicle had been safely landed by those mysterious other astronauts who had to have landed it. How else could he have gotten past the Statue of Liberty site? As Cornelius told Taylor, "You can't ride along the shore at high tide..." And even if one were to try to do so, getting around the Statue via horseback would be impossible, given the size of those waves crashing into the beach and into those rocks hemming in the Statue to the cliff in that cul-de-sac.

Unless Milo rode a horse along the top of the cliff overlooking that beach and then found the ANSA ship perched on its launch stage below, he had to have gotten to that spacecraft's landing site by boat. And, prior to the detonation of the Alpha Omega bomb, Milo probably took Zira and Cornelius to that seaboard site by boat, too, for at least two reasons:

1) It would be faster going from Ape City to that beach site by boat, since there is a waterway (river) leading from Ape City all the way to the Sea... "to the diggings" (the Cave)... and only by boat could they get past the Statue of Liberty site to the part of the shoreline where the awaiting spacecraft had been landed.

2) By going via boat -- and avoiding a land-route on horseback -- they not only avoid the possibility of running into Ursus' army, but they also can't be exposed to the effects of the Mutants' illusions. Chances are that the Mutants would have hit them with Visual and Sonic Deterrents if they had galloped anywhere within the zone of influence of their mental abilities. None of the Ape-onauts ever mentions having seen the weird "manifestations" that Ursus tells Zaius his scout had reported, and the Mutants -- who can "see" the approaching Ape Army -- never "see" the traveling chimpanzees, or, at least, they never mention seeing them. I submit that the best explanation for this is that Milo took his two friends with him to the spacecraft site by boat, remaining out of the reach of both Ursus' army and the Mutants' illusions.

There are any number of scenarios that can be imagined by POTA fans to cover the in-between stories, the Milo stuff, etc... but I submit that a theory which doesn't adequately cover all the facts already given in the movies, and which violates them, should be acknowledged as being impossible to fit into the Canon. That's not to say that POTA fans can't enjoy an uncanonical tale here and there -- I myself have enjoyed many POTA stories (be they from Marvel, from Ty, from the team that brought us WITHIN ) which I feel don't fit the facts well enough. I enjoyed the cartoon series for what it was... but I don't consider it part of the POTA Canon. For me, only the 5 films and the 14 TV episodes truly belong in the Canon. Others don't count the TV show, and include only the 5 films. At least one POTA fan -- and you can probably guess who that is! -- doesn't include anything but the 1st film.

To each their own.

Patrick

 

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "David Jackson" <Yoda_75@...> wrote:

pat you know alot more about the movies then me

I enjoy the journals they just are another interpetation

you seen to be very strict in your interpetation without wanting to speculate alot and thats ok

there are many star wars fans like that too

I really don't see why it is such a big deal if I like them

______________________________________________________

David,

1) It isn't such a big deal to me that you like the "CORNELIUS' JOURNALS" thing. As I said before, Good for you if they do entertain you. I'm glad for you.

Having said that, there are people of the swishy persuasion who like reading fanfics that present Kirk and Spock as being homosexual lovers... and it doesn't bother me that they like those, either. But I do not consider such fanfics to belong in the STAR TREK canon! But does that mean that the writers of those gay Kirk-Spock stories shouldn't be free to write them, or for others to enjoy them? Nope. But, as far as I'm concerned, Kirk was -- or will be -- the most heterosexual male human being living in the 23rd Century, bar none! Kirk would've f***ed that Horta from "DEVIL IN THE DARK" -- which was female, if you'll remember -- if he wouldn't have been afraid of gettin' his Little Jimmy burnt off!

And Spock, what with his Seven-Year-Itch (the pon farr ), cannot be gay either: remember the episode where the spores force Spock to give in to his emotions... and he falls in love -- and is happy for the first time in his life -- with a woman (played by Jill Ireland, I think it was)...? If he were gay, he'd have politely rebuffed her and gone a-sauntering over to one of the male colonists to get some Brokeback mountin' action, if ya know what I mean.

Which reminds me of a joke: How do they separate the men from the boys in the Greek navy? -- With a crowbar, that's how!

2) I am very strict in my interpretation of the POTA stories, but that does not mean that I don't speculate, David. I speculate a whole helluva lot , believe me! Mlccougar is absolutely right about that. And I fully encourage other POTA fans to offer up their own speculative interpretations... reserving the right to point out aspects of them which may be flawed due to the presence in the various films of evidence which doesn't jibe with their interpretations. I also encourage other POTA fans to see if they can point out elements of my own interpretations which they feel don't jibe with the POTA canon's evidence, too. I don't want to overlook any detail which may contradict my own POTA scenario, and it helps that there is this rabid fanbase which is more than willing to point out such details.

Patrick

P.S. If it were up to me, the only films in the STAR WARS canon would be Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and half of The Return of the Jedi . I would ditch the prequel trilogy entirely and get rid of that whole nauseating notion that Luke and Leia were actually brother-and-sister all along. Luke has the hots for her in Star Wars , sharing a kiss at one point, right before the gallant swing-across-the-chasm... and in Empire she plants a smacker onto his kisser after he recuperates from cold exposure on Hoth -- a kiss which he obviously delighted in, to Han's dismay. When Lucas revealed that Luke and Leia were siblings in Jedi, he made watching those earlier scenes from SW and Empire acquire an Ick-factor. As in Ewww... As in, George, what the f*** is up with this incest crap?

I, for one, don't believe that Lucas planned out a six- or nine-episode epic, only to decide to film the 4th story in it first, blah blah blah. Oh, Lucas will go to his grave claiming that he'd planned it all out beforehand, but I think he's a damned liar. STAR WARS was great, don't get me wrong. But he hoped it would make its money back, not knowing that it would. Spielberg -- who was making CE3K at the time -- and Lucas gave each other a percentage of the profits of their respective films, Lucas thinking that Spielberg's movie would make more money. Spielberg, as he's said in interviews, got the better end of the deal! But Lucas didn't know SW would go through the roof Box Office-wise... so, when it came time to make a sequel he had to come up with a story that would be a worthy follow-up.

And he left his options open! He had Darth Vader claiming to be Luke's father... but we didn't find out that he actually was beyond a doubt until Yoda, in JEDI , admitted this to Luke. He could have had Jedi establish that Darth's claim to be Luke's father was a lie ... part of his attempt to turn Luke to the Dark Side of the Force. And Yoda's reference to "... there is another..." (i.e. another person capable of being trained in the ways of the Force) could've been exploited not with Leia but with Han Solo.

Remember the scene in Jedi where Han gets the weird feeling that he's never going to see the Millennium Falcon again, right before they take off for Endor in that Imperial Shuttle? Well, with Lando Calrissian (and his sidekick) flying the Falcon in the strike on the newer Death Star, Lucas had the original cut of Jedi culminate in the Falcon hitting the Death Star's reactor core... and then being destroyed when the thing blew up . Lucas was actually going to have one of the heroes fighting this "star war" die in that battle. As part of a character arc, it made sense for Lando -- who had betrayed Han in Empire -- to pay a price for that betrayal.

And Han's premonition about never seeing the Falcon again... that could easily have led to Han Solo himself becoming the "another" one mentioned by Yoda. So much time spent in the presence of a budding Jedi Knight (Luke) was beginning to rub off on that ol' pirate. That premonition could've led to Han becoming trained to be another Jedi Knight, to join Luke in the return of the Jedi... and, who knows? Harrison Ford might've been intrigued enough by such a turn of events, by such a potential change in his character, that he might've been willing to make a 4th Star Wars movie, since there'd be something new for him to play.

But that all changed when Lucas had a preview showing of JEDI ... and fans filling out those cards at the end of the screening voiced their complaint that the Millennium Falcon gets destroyed in the battle. I'm sure the black (i.e. African American) people in that preview audience also voiced a complaint that the only black person in the story gets killed!

So, what did George do? He changed the ending. He filmed a special effects sequence where the Falcon manages to zip past the fireball in the nick of time, Lando going "Yoo-hoo!" with delight... and they refilmed the Ewok-dance at the end, so as to show Lando present there, rather than him being a casualty of the war.

In order to placate the preview audience, Lucas changed Jedi -- making it a lesser movie, in my opinion. And, by removing the significance of that "funny feeling" Han has... his possible Force-provided premonition of the demise of the Millennium Falcon... he had to have somebody else be the "another"... and that's where he got severely stupid and had Leia be it. And not only that -- not only is she the "another" last hope for the Rebellion, for the re-emergence of the Jedi -- but George had to go and make her Luke's goddamned sister!

Thanks, George! Thanks for making perfectly wonderful scenes from Star Wars and Empire feel icky in retrospect!

I can almost hear him now. There's royal incest in Greek Myth (Zeus and Hera were married siblings)... in Egyptian Myth (Osiris and Isis, ditto)... and Star Wars is all about re-inventing Myth for the Space Age, following Joseph Campbell's studies. So who gives a damn that Luke wanted to stick his flesh-sabre into his sister's gash-compactor?

Well... I, for one, you bearded big-wig bastard!

 

>
> I don't know if you've seen this or not, but it's a Linda Harrison

> an emphasis on the Nova character. Go here:
>
> http://diemazz.com/vids/Planet-of-the-Apes-1968-film.htm
>
> Melinda
>

>
> Hello everyone. I am a new member here, so glad to have found this
> group. I have been enjoying all of the photos of the group. So

> to meet with others who have the same passion as me.
>
> I did a search for Mego and kind of read up the posts on that. I
> recently bought a Mego Zira doll and she's currently standing at my
> desk next to the Cornelius Mego doll. I am going to sew her up
> another more accurate outfit. Has anybody in this group done this
> for your Zira dolls, and may I see photos?
>
> Also, I just bought a Sideshow Zaius and he was delivered to my

> little paws a few days ago. I hate the way they bound him up. The
> wires are messing up his jacket and I'm afraid it will be

> wrinkled. They should have bound only his legs. So my question

> am I going to ruin the overall value of the doll if I open up the

> and unbind him so that his jacket is not wrinkled? What do
> collectors do?
>
> I have two sideshow Zira dolls coming as well. One will be to

> open, and the other one I will play with. Does anybody in this

> play with their Planet of the Apes dolls? If so, what is your
> favorite doll to play with...and am I crazy? Planet of the Apes is
> my first love I admit.
>
> Jessica.
>

Does anyone know where this originated?:

http://cgi.ebay. com/GUIDE- TO-PLANET- OF-THE-APES- MEGO-MEDICOM- HASBRO-1974_ W0QQitemZ1401681 36301QQihZ004QQc ategoryZ16469QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewIt em

The description says that it was taken out of a magazine, but I'd like
to know which magazine it came from. It says that the entire guide is 11
pages. It's also got 2001 movie items, and the medicoms, so it's fairly
recent.

Dario

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Does anyone know where this originated?:

http://cgi.ebay. com/GUIDE- TO-PLANET- OF-THE-APES- MEGO-MEDICOM- HASBRO-1974_ W0QQitemZ1401681 36301QQihZ004QQc ategoryZ16469QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewIt em

The description says that it was taken out of a magazine, but I'd like
to know which magazine it came from. It says that the entire guide is 11
pages. It's also got 2001 movie items, and the medicoms, so it's fairly
recent.

Dario

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----- Original Message -----

From: Dario Sciola

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 7:32 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Extracted Figure Price Guide

Thanks Tim. Ultimately, the question I was after was "Where would I
get a copy of my own if I wanted one." SO my second question would
have been, does anyone have a pic of the cover of the magazine. So
you've already answered my real question!

In answer to Mike's comment about the validity of this, or any other
price guide for that matter, I don't see much use for them in that
regard. Prices are always subjective to begin with, fluctuate wildly
with time, and are more related to actual availability/ demand ratio at
the time of a particular instance in time. So essentially, they are
useless to helping you determine an actual price. They are OK for
judging whether a particular item may be more sought after than
another. They are great to just let a reader know 'what's out there'.

But I like them only because they can have a lot of nice pictures and
I use them for reference material.

Thanks guys,
Dario

---

Yes it was from a magazine called "Action Figure News & Toy Review" from June 2001.....the mag had a different "complete guide" every issue...I don't know if it still is in publication....I could scan it and send it to Hunter but I need to find the time...!! Here's a pic of the cover...

Tim

Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:

Does anyone know where this originated?:

http://cgi.ebay. com/GUIDE- TO-PLANET- OF-THE-APES- MEGO-MEDICOM- HASBRO-1974_ W0QQitemZ1401681 36301QQihZ004QQc ategoryZ16469QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewIt em

The description says that it was taken out of a magazine, but I'd like
to know which magazine it came from. It says that the entire guide is 11
pages. It's also got 2001 movie items, and the medicoms, so it's fairly
recent.

Dario

Do You

Same here!

 

That’s why I was so terribly disappointed by Sauseville’s book and that’s why I still do not own it.  There’s nothing really new or exciting in it!

 

MIchael

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Dario Sciola
Sent: Saturday, 20 October 2007 12:33 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Extracted Figure Price Guide

But I like them only because they can have a lot of nice pictures and
I use them for reference material.

Thanks guys,
Dario

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On 10/18/07, TZer0@... <TZer0@...> wrote:

In a message dated 10/18/2007 3:07:38 P.M. Central Daylight Time, jessicarotich@gmail.com writes:

Does anybody in this group
play with their Planet of the Apes dolls?

 

Jessica, you are wise my friend.

I took the sideshow Zira out of the box.

It was put into another box with some

odds and ends while tidying up and

another box was put on top of it without

closing the flaps on the first box.  I didn't

think anything about it, as I didn't consider

anything in the bottom box to be fragile.

A word of warning.  Sideshow's are weak

in the knee joints.  If I ever get a second

one, the box will probably stay sealed. 

Perhaps there is an after-market body

with good old fashioned joints on it.

 

---

See what's new at AOL.com and Make AOL Your Homepage.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:02 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Extracted Figure Price Guide

I like the book an the guide only for the pictures.... I could care less about the amounts...after all I am trying to come up with the Master list of POTA collectibles. ..


Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@ bigpond.com> wrote:

Same here!

That’s why I was so terribly disappointed by Sauseville’s book and that’s why I still do not own it.  There’s nothing really new or exciting in it!

MIchael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Dario Sciola
Sent: Saturday, 20 October 2007 12:33 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Extracted Figure Price Guide

But I like them only because they can have a lot of nice pictures and
I use them for reference material.

Thanks guys,
Dario

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail. yahoo.com

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 10:01 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Home page pic

Hey Neil. Where is that home page pic from? I don't remember ever
seeing that one.

.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of juswannaknit
Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 2:52 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Hello I am a new member

Hello everyone. I am a new member here, so glad to have found this
group. I have been enjoying all of the photos of the group. So nice
to meet with others who have the same passion as me.

.

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@...>
Date: Friday, October 19, 2007 5:43 pm
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Extracted Figure Price Guide

> Same here!
>
>
>
> That's why I was so terribly disappointed by Sauseville's book and
> that'swhy I still do not own it. There's nothing really new or
> exciting in it!
>
>
>
> MIchael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> Dario Sciola
> Sent: Saturday, 20 October 2007 12:33 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Extracted Figure Price Guide
>
> But I like them only because they can have a lot of nice pictures
> and
> I use them for reference material.
>
> Thanks guys,
> Dario
>
>

Terry has a pretty good list.

 

When your list is complete we should match with photos and throw it up on the web.

 

Neil and I have been planning to do this for ages but I think Neil is better of drawing!   J

 

Michael

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Saturday, 20 October 2007 8:02 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Extracted Figure Price Guide

 

I like the book an the guide only for the pictures.... I could care less about the amounts...after all I am trying to come up with the Master list of POTA collectibles. ..


Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@ bigpond.com> wrote:

Same here!

 

That’s why I was so terribly disappointed by Sauseville’s book and that’s why I still do not own it.  There’s nothing really new or exciting in it!

 

MIchael

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Dario Sciola
Sent: Saturday, 20 October 2007 12:33 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Extracted Figure Price Guide

But I like them only because they can have a lot of nice pictures and
I use them for reference material.

Thanks guys,
Dario

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Hey where’s our Roddy garden photos Tim!   J

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Saturday, 20 October 2007 8:02 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Extracted Figure Price Guide

 

I like the book an the guide only for the pictures.... I could care less about the amounts...after all I am trying to come up with the Master list of POTA collectibles. ..


Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@ bigpond.com> wrote:

Same here!

 

That’s why I was so terribly disappointed by Sauseville’s book and that’s why I still do not own it.  There’s nothing really new or exciting in it!

 

MIchael

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Dario Sciola
Sent: Saturday, 20 October 2007 12:33 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Extracted Figure Price Guide

But I like them only because they can have a lot of nice pictures and
I use them for reference material.

Thanks guys,
Dario

 

 ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
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Do You Yahoo!?

  I agree, Sauseville's book is a good collection of photos. And takes up a lot less space than an actual collection. Maybe it's not complete but it's the only book of it's kind out there. I love those kinds of books, flipping through them. I've got ones for "Star Wars", "Batman", TV shows, stuff I would never collect but I enjoy having a "collection" in a book. It probably wouldn't go over here, but I thought someone should do one of those books on Burton's films since his visuals are so unique and so many of them spawned toys and stuff. As far as I know, no one has done a book on "Collecting Tim Burton Films".

  But I agree Sauseville's choices weren't always the best (pictures of scripts, etc.).  Jeff

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 3:02 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Extracted Figure Price Guide

I like the book an the guide only for the pictures.... I could care less about the amounts...after all I am trying to come up with the Master list of POTA collectibles. ..


Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@ bigpond.com> wrote:

Same here!

That’s why I was so terribly disappointed by Sauseville’s book and that’s why I still do not own it.  There’s nothing really new or exciting in it!

MIchael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Dario Sciola
Sent: Saturday, 20 October 2007 12:33 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Extracted Figure Price Guide

But I like them only because they can have a lot of nice pictures and
I use them for reference material.

Thanks guys,
Dario

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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 Did the box ever get made Neil ?

Any chance of showing the whole thing?

Best, Graham.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- It's part of the artwork from an action figure box design that Chris
> Hight commissioned from me a few years ago. Its from a picture of
> various Apes characters which wrapped around the whole box.
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of John
> Sent: Friday, October 19, 2007 10:01 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Home page pic
>
>
>
> Hey Neil. Where is that home page pic from? I don't remember ever
> seeing that one.
>
>
> .
>
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=8605785/grpspId=1705021437/m
> sgId=46658/stime=1192752068/nc1=3858796/nc2=3848618/nc3=4936875>
>

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