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----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 12:59 AM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Memorabilia - question for TERRY (and anyone else who might know).

Checking the MARVEL comics ads for ADDARS should give an indication of the date of release (MAYBE!).

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of mlccougar@aol. com
Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2008 4:57 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Memorabilia - question for TERRY (and anyone else who might know).

In a message dated 1/23/2008 11:33:19 PM Central Standard Time, apefan23@yahoo. com writes:

The only thing I can think of that was releasedbefore 74 was maybe the Topps movie trading cards?? I'm just guessing though..

*** The TOPPS cards and the soundtrack LPs for PLANET and BENEATH were released before 1974... And, I think the earliest ADDAR models were released in 1973/early 74 before the TV series hype....***

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.html In a message dated 1/24/2008 12:56:27 AM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

Why not do a gorilla like the ESCAPE with clothes then?

Monetary probably...


**************
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489<.html

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In a message dated 1/23/2008 8:03:36 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

** I think that Chambers could have made them look more"real" if he wanted to but he didn't because as he had said he "didn't want the audience to be grossed out for two hours"...

And my opinion is that yes, they're supposed to BE apes... ***

 

Absolutely.

In fact I remember during testing they

tried a lot of different looks.  It was

difficult to make attractive apes.

So they had to compromise

between realistic and humanistic.

That's where that comes from.

But I think it created confusion

about their evolution and how

advanced they were supposed to

be.  But it just adds to the puzzle.

Burton on the other hand went too

far.  Eyebrows on females?  Come

on!  You have to draw a line somewhere.

Why not take your realism and chuck it

out the window at that point?  What's left?

 

 

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In a message dated 1/23/2008 11:30:49 P.M. Central Standard Time, apefan23@... writes:

I agree.....and I did smile when Ari was writing in
her journal with her foot.....

 

It had it's moments,

a few anyway.

Planet of the Sour Grapes.

 

 

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In a message dated 1/24/2008 12:59:26 A.M. Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

No wonder we were teased mercilessly!  J

 

If I make my POTA I'll give it the Dark Knight treatment.

No one will be laughing then!

 

 

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----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:03 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Merchandising tail wagging the dog.

Yes – that’s true.

The merchandising on all the other “failed” movies like “Predator vs Alien” still sold well.  Why not – they kept the same look!

I think I’d have more POTAK1 Stuff if it was Ursus, Cornelius etc.

They should have kept the John Chambers look.

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Graham Hill
Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2008 4:11 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Memorabilia

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com , "Michael & Sally Whitty" <sallywhitty@ ...> wrote:
>
> I wonder how that stuff sold?
>
>
>
> I know in Australia we only got a FRACTION of the toys and what we did get
> sat around on shelves until I got there! :-)
>
> Maybe it was a huge toy franchise, nothing of which actually sold!
>
> Michael
>
I think with the classic 70's merchandise it probably sold ok at the time.

(In the UK we probably got more than yourself in Australia but still a fraction of what seemed to be available in the States.)

But the above ties in with a post I was going to add to why there's no sign of any new movie.

 POTA 2001  merchandise seems to really NOT have sold at all.

In the days of the tail well and truely wagging the dog (Merchandise being more important than a decent script,particularly if a studio thinks a film should be a "franchise")

If  Fox sees no company willing to pay for a licence for the toys, games etc (Because most were burnt in 2001) well... no film (Until they can get these "creative partners" on board some time in the future !!)

Best,Graham.

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----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:58 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] The MAKE-UP look.

Hmmm…in PLANET I think the make-up is great.

I do wonder though – what would Chambers have done if he had modern technology and make-up?  Are they meant to be APES but not able to LOOK like apes because of limitations?  Or would he make them like that anyway?

Me – I would go with the Chambers look (of PLANET – more hair, more time on make-up) but use technology to make the mouth movements more convincing.

To me, they are apes, but they have advanced to walking more like humans and they are sorta EVOLVING (hence the more human bodies).

But you know that Neil – it’s how we have written BEGINS….with human/ape crossings, genetically manipulated for the military then taken over by the first talking gorilla (who actually LOOKS like a gorilla).  History is then re-written by powerful apes like the Lawgiver (much as our own history is widely believed to have been re-written by those who can).

I like the Chambers look.  It deteriorated over the sequels and TV Show but it still is everything that is POTA to me.

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Neil Foster
Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2008 11:32 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Merchandising tail wagging the dog.

-- Funnily enough a lot of the younger generation think that is one of the worst things about the original POTA stuff. My kids and a lot of their mates think that the make up was laughable, which I suppose makes sense considering the movie effects & make ups they have been brought up with.

Neil

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 11:04 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] Merchandising tail wagging the dog.

They should have kept the John Chambers look.

.

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----- Original Message -----

From: Neil Foster

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 6:41 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Dead or Alive (?)

-- I think that would be because it is a more recent show, not something that has been dead in the water for years. I don't think having an organised group of POTA fans will achieve anything more, even if we were organised into a cohesive group with one voice I'm betting that the 4400 has many more fans than us 'hard core' Apes fans.

 

Sure, if you believe everything you are told you may think a fans' petition or something would make Fox take notice of us. Personally I don't.

 

Neil

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of PofTAfan@aol. com
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 10:54 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Dead or Alive (?)

I'm going to disagree on that. The problem is not Fox or who is in charge  at the studio, the problem
is that ape fans are not organized. The fans of the 4400 are much more organized with their write-in campaign to
bring back the show on USA network. We need to be organized to get our voices out to Fox.

.

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----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:32 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Memorabilia - question for TERRY (and anyone else who might know).

The only thing I can think of that was re-leased
before 74 was maybe the Topps movie trading cards??
I'm just guessing though..

--- Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@ shaw.ca> wrote:

> Did somebody call my name?
>
> OK here is my quick overview of what I think
> happened with the merchandise
>
> The first 3 original movies were televised in 1973
> to huge high ratings
> this created the interest of turning the series to
> TV
> So the initial interest was in the characters of the
> original movies
> and I think they propably did a push of a lot of
> movie related products in August 1974
> to prepare for the hype of the new TV series
> As the show debuted in Sept 1974 it would seem
> logical that most of this new merchandise
> based on the tv show would have come out in approx
> Aug-Oct 1974
>
> Even the Marvel magazine series PREDATES the tv
> series by a few months which shows that the hype was
> really
> built up in the summer of 1974 for the new series
>
> of course the hype was too much and the show didnt
> get the high ratings
> possibly due to being put up against the 6 Million
> Dollar Man now entering its 2nd season
> which was way more popular
>
> Yes almost all POTA items have a 1967 copyright date
> but pretty well all were actually made in 1974
> so this can throw a lot of historians off if you use
> the copyright date
>
> As there was NONE - NO items actually made in 1967
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael & Sally Whitty
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 7:41 PM
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Memorabilia - question for
> TERRY (and anyone else who might know).
>
>
>
> I stand (well, sit!) corrected!
>
>
>
>
>
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
> mlccougar@aol. com
> Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2008 11:12 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Memorabilia - question for
> TERRY (and anyone else who might know).
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/23/2008 6:58:43 PM Central
> Standard Time, sallywhitty@ bigpond.com writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> However most of it I stamped 1968 APJAC so who
> knows the real release date?
>
>
>
> Actually, most of it has the date as 1967 (when
> the POTA name was copyrighted) ... The release date
> of most everything was 74-75.
>
>
>
>
>
>

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile. yahoo.com/ ;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR 8HDtDypao8Wcj9tA cJ

<.html

cool as hell!!

jessica rotich <jessicarotich@...> wrote:

http://timpickup. wordpress. com/2008/ 01/24/08_ project-presenta tion/

 

Last Term's Progress

Planet Of the Apes (1968) collapsed onto a single image.

Each of the 150,000 roughly) frames from the film, contributes a single pixel which are lined up one by one from left to right. So each vertical line constitutes roughly 10 seconds of film footage. The colored strips relate to different scenes in the film. For example the green patch is early on when the humans are chased through the forest by the apes. The pareticular pixel chosen from each frame corresponds to the position on the screen to which it will be added.

---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

has anyone seen this?

ebay #120212483861

This is a rare appox. 800 ft. Digest of Planet of the Apes 16mm sound flat. This has the uncut hunt scene, there are some scratches in the hunt scene but they do go away. This feature also includes the uncut escape scene from the jail, starting from when Heston runs outside after the ape funeral .It also has the approaching of the Statue of Liberty scene. The color is faded, some scenes look better then others, minor wear. I am showing you thirty shots from this digest in my description. I took the pictures on an angle, so they might look a little off. This is a great digest and is better then Ken films super 8mm digest. Mounted on a core.

---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 3:44 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Merchandising tail wagging the dog.

  Let's face it, even at POTA's peak in the '70's, we all have tales of being the only ones in our groups who liked POTA. It was never a "Star Wars".

.

<.html

Attachments :

my prime example...the one that always bothered me.....is the chimp on the trash can labeled Cornelius......I believe it is actually a chimp extra in Battle.....somewhere I have seen him in that same pose, but here's the only pic I can find right off....he's the one behind Lisa.....
I'll find more examples of misidentification.....

Tim

Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@...> wrote:

Yeah that’s hilarious, hoe they screwed up who the characters were!

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2008 3:25 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Memorabilia - question for TERRY (and anyone else who might know).

 

I'm pretty sure they just threw it all out at the same
time.....if anything had Galen on it, sure it came out
after the show started but all the stuff has a mix of
pictures on them.......wrong names on face...... to
the manufacturers, the public couldn't tell apes apart
so they just slapped any picture on the stuff
"they all look alike to most humans"

---

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 8:19 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] extended scenes??

has anyone seen this?

ebay #120212483861

.

<.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jessica rotich
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 7:00 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com; potadg@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] The 1968 film collapsed onto a single image

http://timpickup. wordpress. com/2008/ 01/24/08_ project-presenta tion/

.

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----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 1:16 AM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #40

Well, Terry, I know Neil is happy to do a (minimum) 5 page exclusive comic.  Of course, set in PLANET’s era.

I recall a few people discussing various articles – any further on them?

Maybe if you give us a deadline we can submit something by then?

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Terry Hoknes
Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2008 5:04 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #40

i've had some inquiries and wondered if it was worth putting together a new issue in time for the 40th anniversary

as its also our 40th issue !!

Anyone like to contribute ?

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: jessica rotich

To: pota@yahoogroups.com ; potadg@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 1:00 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] The 1968 film collapsed onto a single image

http://timpickup. wordpress. com/2008/ 01/24/08_ project-presenta tion/

 

Last Term's Progress

Planet Of the Apes (1968) collapsed onto a single image.

Each of the 150,000 roughly) frames from the film, contributes a single pixel which are lined up one by one from left to right. So each vertical line constitutes roughly 10 seconds of film footage. The colored strips relate to different scenes in the film. For example the green patch is early on when the humans are chased through the forest by the apes. The pareticular pixel chosen from each frame corresponds to the position on the screen to which it will be added.

<.html

I think you could be right about this Jeff.

As much as I'd like to think there are lots of fans out there - it
seems there are very few (and maybe "quite" a few CASUAL fans).

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Let's face it, even at POTA's peak in the '70's, we all have
tales of being the only ones in our groups who liked POTA. It was
never a "Star Wars". Maybe it's just a good movie people remember
enjoying on TV. It's not something people can get behind in large
numbers, I guess. Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael & Sally Whitty
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:03 PM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Merchandising tail wagging the dog.
>
>
>
> Yes - that's true.
>
>
>
> The merchandising on all the other "failed" movies like "Predator
vs Alien" still sold well. Why not - they kept the same look!
>
>
>
> I think I'd have more POTAK1 Stuff if it was Ursus, Cornelius etc.
>
>
>
> They should have kept the John Chambers look.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
Behalf Of Graham Hill
> Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2008 4:11 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Memorabilia
>
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael & Sally Whitty"
<sallywhitty@> wrote:
> >
> > I wonder how that stuff sold?
> >
> >
> >
> > I know in Australia we only got a FRACTION of the toys and what
we did get
> > sat around on shelves until I got there! :-)
> >
> > Maybe it was a huge toy franchise, nothing of which actually
sold!
> >
> > Michael
> >
> I think with the classic 70's merchandise it probably sold ok at
the time.
>
> (In the UK we probably got more than yourself in Australia but
still a fraction of what seemed to be available in the States.)
>
> But the above ties in with a post I was going to add to why
there's no sign of any new movie.
>
> POTA 2001 merchandise seems to really NOT have sold at all.
>
> In the days of the tail well and truely wagging the dog
(Merchandise being more important than a decent script,particularly
if a studio thinks a film should be a "franchise")
>
> If Fox sees no company willing to pay for a licence for the
toys, games etc (Because most were burnt in 2001) well... no film
(Until they can get these "creative partners" on board some time in
the future !!)
>
> Best,Graham.
>

I actually get it with KK and WOLFMAN, but with POTA they actually look
GOOD when done properly and as I said I always thought they were
SUPPOSED to be apes who are becoming more human....evolving...

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> The Chambers look is classic, like Jack Pierce's Frankenstein and
Wolfman, or the original "King Kong". But they want to make it "new".
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael & Sally Whitty
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:58 PM
> Subject: [PotaDG] The MAKE-UP look.
>
>

Yup.

Sure - if there are 5000 fans and they spend all their money on new
lines of merchandise....they get whatever they ask for.

At most we'd get what....100 letters to Fox?

Also, I think it's cool to write and make them AWARE of stuff (like
deleted scenes etc...they may not even know these EXIST!). Kust
don't hold your breath!

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> I agree, Neil. Fox has heard from the fans for years and it
doesn't help. They look at the bottom line. Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Neil Foster
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 6:41 PM
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Dead or Alive (?)
>
>
>
> -- I think that would be because it is a more recent show, not
something that has been dead in the water for years. I don't think
having an organised group of POTA fans will achieve anything more,
even if we were organised into a cohesive group with one voice I'm
betting that the 4400 has many more fans than us 'hard core' Apes
fans.
>
> Sure, if you believe everything you are told you may think a
fans' petition or something would make Fox take notice of us.
Personally I don't.
>
> Neil
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
Behalf Of PofTAfan@...
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 10:54 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Dead or Alive (?)
>
>
>
> I'm going to disagree on that. The problem is not Fox or who is
in charge at the studio, the problem
> is that ape fans are not organized. The fans of the 4400 are
much more organized with their write-in campaign to
> bring back the show on USA network. We need to be organized to
get our voices out to Fox.
>
> .
>

Very hard times for collectors, but plenty of posters around I guess!

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> There was a few things released before '74. The novels
of "Planet" (with movie pictures), "Beneath" novels, I think maybe
the plastic models. And the Topps cards.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim "apefan"
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Memorabilia - question for TERRY (and
anyone else who might know).
>
>
> The only thing I can think of that was re-leased
> before 74 was maybe the Topps movie trading cards??
> I'm just guessing though..
>
> --- Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@...> wrote:
>
> > Did somebody call my name?
> >
> > OK here is my quick overview of what I think
> > happened with the merchandise
> >
> > The first 3 original movies were televised in 1973
> > to huge high ratings
> > this created the interest of turning the series to
> > TV
> > So the initial interest was in the characters of the
> > original movies
> > and I think they propably did a push of a lot of
> > movie related products in August 1974
> > to prepare for the hype of the new TV series
> > As the show debuted in Sept 1974 it would seem
> > logical that most of this new merchandise
> > based on the tv show would have come out in approx
> > Aug-Oct 1974

Well come on you lot!

Anyone have any ideas?

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Michael that would be very cool to get something from you and
Neil
>
> Well I always have ideas myself
> but I am always short on time to write a lot of articles all myself
> and some fans dont like it if i just reprint internet articles
> so if i can get more input from others that would be great
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael & Sally Whitty
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 1:16 AM
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #40
>
>
>
> Well, Terry, I know Neil is happy to do a (minimum) 5 page
exclusive comic. Of course, set in PLANET's era.
>
>
>
> I recall a few people discussing various articles - any further
on them?
>
>
>
> Maybe if you give us a deadline we can submit something by then?
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
Behalf Of Terry Hoknes
> Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2008 5:04 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #40
>
>
>
> i've had some inquiries and wondered if it was worth putting
together a new issue in time for the 40th anniversary
>
> as its also our 40th issue !!
>
>
>
> Anyone like to contribute ?
>

I know...it just seems odd that we haven't seen this before

Neil Foster <ntfoster@...> wrote:

-- Wow, it's great if this stuff exists! But one thing puzzles me slightly, in the '30 shots from this digest' there doesn't seem to be anything I haven't seen and he hasn't used any shots from the 'uncut' scenes as far as I can tell, I wonder why that would be?

 

Neil

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Tim "apefan"
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 8:19 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] extended scenes??

has anyone seen this?

ebay #120212483861

.

---

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 8:52 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Memorabilia - question for TERRY (and anyone else who might know).

Very hard times for collectors, but plenty of posters around I guess!

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> There was a few things released before '74. The novels
of "Planet" (with movie pictures), "Beneath" novels, I think maybe
the plastic models. And the Topps cards.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim "apefan"
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Memorabilia - question for TERRY (and
anyone else who might know).
>
>
> The only thing I can think of that was re-leased
> before 74 was maybe the Topps movie trading cards??
> I'm just guessing though..
>
> --- Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@ ...> wrote:
>
> > Did somebody call my name?
> >
> > OK here is my quick overview of what I think
> > happened with the merchandise
> >
> > The first 3 original movies were televised in 1973
> > to huge high ratings
> > this created the interest of turning the series to
> > TV
> > So the initial interest was in the characters of the
> > original movies
> > and I think they propably did a push of a lot of
> > movie related products in August 1974
> > to prepare for the hype of the new TV series
> > As the show debuted in Sept 1974 it would seem
> > logical that most of this new merchandise
> > based on the tv show would have come out in approx
> > Aug-Oct 1974

<.html

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----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:04 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: APE CHRONICLES #40

Well come on you lot!

Anyone have any ideas?

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com, Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@ ...> wrote:
>
> Hey Michael that would be very cool to get something from you and
Neil
>
> Well I always have ideas myself
> but I am always short on time to write a lot of articles all myself
> and some fans dont like it if i just reprint internet articles
> so if i can get more input from others that would be great
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael & Sally Whitty
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 1:16 AM
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #40
>
>
>
> Well, Terry, I know Neil is happy to do a (minimum) 5 page
exclusive comic. Of course, set in PLANET's era.
>
>
>
> I recall a few people discussing various articles - any further
on them?
>
>
>
> Maybe if you give us a deadline we can submit something by then?
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -
----------
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@yahoogroups. com] On
Behalf Of Terry Hoknes
> Sent: Thursday, 24 January 2008 5:04 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Subject: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #40
>
>
>
> i've had some inquiries and wondered if it was worth putting
together a new issue in time for the 40th anniversary
>
> as its also our 40th issue !!
>
>
>
> Anyone like to contribute ?
>

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Reminder from:		PotaDG Yahoo! Group
Title:		Gregory Sierra's Birthday
Date:		Friday January 25, 2008
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Notes:		Happy Birthday Gregory! (Verger: Beneath the Planet of the Apes (1970))
Yahoo! Greetings:		Send a Yahoo! Greeting
Yahoo! Shopping:		Browse Yahoo! Shopping Gift Guide
Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options

Copyright © 2008  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | <.html

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Whitty <sallywhitty@...>
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 9:48 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] Drop a Line

.html In a message dated 1/24/2008 11:04:58 PM Central Standard Time, PofTAfan@... writes:

Has anybody did an actual count of the POTA fans out there.  

*** Wouldn't that be hard to do? I mean believe it or not, not everyone is on the internet... I'd guess thd only way to get even a rough number wouyld be to get the sales figures from FOX for the DVDs or something... Even then, who knows how many are just casual fans... ***


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

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In a message dated 1/24/2008 1:20:37 A.M. Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

This is something Burton fought (and lost) – he wanted the female chimps to have the same look as Thade et al.

 

That's bunk.  It's something Backer fought and lost.

Burton won.  He got the look he wanted.  Go back

and watch your behind the scenes videos.

 

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.html In a message dated 1/25/2008 2:12:49 AM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

It's a bit suss!

Maybe it is reel footage of the "BEHIND" extras.

Michael


*** I agree...***


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

.html <.html

.html In a message dated 1/25/2008 2:15:03 AM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

I think that garbage can chimp pose comes from the part of BATTLE where Aldo and Caesar face off.

Is it the one of the jigsaws too?

*** Yup, that's atound the scene alright... And it is on the puzzle***


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Terry Hoknes

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 9:47 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] 1968 life magazine review

Does anybody have this article in text they could send me

thanks

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Attachments :

I thought it was too but this is the only puzzle I can see that he is on and he is clearly not in that pose.....

mlccougar@... wrote:

In a message dated 1/25/2008 2:15:03 AM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@ bigpond.com writes:

I think that garbage can chimp pose comes from the part of BATTLE where Aldo and Caesar face off.

Is it the one of the jigsaws too?

*** Yup, that's atound the scene alright... And it is on the puzzle***


************ **
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music. aol.com/grammys/ pictures/ never-won- a-grammy? NCID=aolcmp00300 000002548)

---

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

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----- Original Message -----

From: Terry Hoknes

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 7:40 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Memorabilia - question for TERRY (and anyone else who might know).

TImes have definitely changed - nobody thought of "merchandise" with these movies as a franchise in the early 70s

 

Maybe Godzilla had a run of movies that would be equivalent and Godzilla propably did have lots of merchandise in Japan i'm assuming

so maybe POTA "could" have had more product in the early years but considering it was an adult themed movie

maybe no one would think kids would buy the stuff !?!?

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2008 8:52 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Memorabilia - question for TERRY (and anyone else who might know).

Very hard times for collectors, but plenty of posters around I guess!

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> There was a few things released before '74. The novels
of "Planet" (with movie pictures), "Beneath" novels, I think maybe
the plastic models. And the Topps cards.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim "apefan"
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 9:32 PM
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Memorabilia - question for TERRY (and
anyone else who might know).
>
>
> The only thing I can think of that was re-leased
> before 74 was maybe the Topps movie trading cards??
> I'm just guessing though..
>
> --- Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@ ...> wrote:
>
> > Did somebody call my name?
> >
> > OK here is my quick overview of what I think
> > happened with the merchandise
> >
> > The first 3 original movies were televised in 1973
> > to huge high ratings
> > this created the interest of turning the series to
> > TV
> > So the initial interest was in the characters of the
> > original movies
> > and I think they propably did a push of a lot of
> > movie related products in August 1974
> > to prepare for the hype of the new TV series
> > As the show debuted in Sept 1974 it would seem
> > logical that most of this new merchandise
> > based on the tv show would have come out in approx
> > Aug-Oct 1974

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----- Original Message -----

From: Terry Hoknes

To: pota@yahoogroups.com ; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 3:29 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] does Planet of the Apes promote atheism ?

I've been meaning to ask this question for a long time

Do we have any christians etc that are huge apes fans?

what does this movie say about religion or cults ?

do we relate this story to our own current society?

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In a message dated 1/25/2008 5:30:07 A.M. Central Standard Time, hoknescards@... writes:

Do we have any christians etc that are huge apes fans?

 

 

Better question . . . Do we have any ape fans that are Huge Christians?

I'm mean of Goliath proportions! Personally, I'm a Tiiist. That's not to say

that I'm not a Christian.  I believe that most religions have some truth to

them and some crap that just got chucked in along the way that no one

bothered to question.  Hey, even Jesus was a big questioner of religion.

I think I'm like most Apes fans.  Like Taylor I'm happy enough to live in

my reality -- but when a big wave of Truth bites me in the butt I can't

help but sit up and take notice.  Zaius, on the other hand, ignores it.

Tiiism is a religion for people who are not joiners. There are no dues

to pay, except to your fellow creatures. All you have to do is live it.

And you really don't have to look or sound like Lee Marvin either. 

 

(see Sons of Lee Marvin) Jim Jarmusch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

 

 

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In a message dated 1/25/2008 11:08:51 A.M. Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

It's a very healthy mix. 

 

Like Trail Mix!

Mmmmm....Trail Mix ahhhhhh . . .

 

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In a message dated 1/25/2008 3:47:08 P.M. Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

Marist brothers I was taught by did that for me!

 

Or should that be Marxist Bothers?

 

CHICO: "Hey I'm love da Marxist Brothers!  De always make-a me laugh."

 

 

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----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 3:45 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Does Planet of the Apes promote atheism ?

Good question!

No, I don’t think it does promote atheism.

The kiddy-fiddler priests and Marist brothers I was taught by did that for me!

POTA suggests that the pious Zaius is just like our religious leaders – particularly the CREATIONISTS (were they even around back then?).  They ignore the evidence and alter their (our) history.

As many people say, history is (re-) written by the rich and powerful.

Essentially the apes are “aping” us (as is the theme in Monkey Planet – more so than in the movies).

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Terry Hoknes
Sent: Friday, 25 January 2008 9:30 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups. com; PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] does Planet of the Apes promote atheism ?

I've been meaning to ask this question for a long time

Do we have any christians etc that are huge apes fans?

what does this movie say about religion or cults ?

do we relate this story to our own current society?

<.html

.html In a message dated 1/25/2008 1:47:01 PM Central Standard Time, hoknescards@... writes:

What makes POTA greater than other apocalypse style of movies?


Just look at that film... It's perfectly executed, excellently acted, great score... Costume and building design that is hard to beat, cool ship (though we only see half of it... What's not to make it great (aka The Best)?

   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/



**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

.html In a message dated 1/25/2008 3:46:59 PM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

POTA suggests that the pious Zaius is just like our religious leaders – particularly the CREATIONISTS (were they even around back then)? They ignore the evidence and alter their (our) history.

Whitty, of course Creationists were around back then... They (at least in part) had the hissy fit that led to the Scopes Monkey Trial...

As many people say, history is (re-) written by the rich and powerful.

"He who controls the past controls the future."

**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

.html In a message dated 1/25/2008 5:51:00 PM Central Standard Time, hoknescards@... writes:

Obviously POTA is one of the biggest franchises ever
But what would have happened if only the original movie was made
and that was the end of it

would we be here talking today?

*** I sure would... I mean PLANET is PLANET (the best of the lot!) Everything else sequels and television wise is APES... ***

**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

.html In a message dated 1/25/2008 5:54:51 PM Central Standard Time, hoknescards@... writes:

Why did Zaius actually know the truth yet keep passing on the lie for hundreds of years?

*** Zaius couldn't have kept passing the lie on for hundreds of years... He only had his bried lifetime to do any hiding... It'd have been up to his heirs of power to keep the deception going... But then again, with the Earth blown up at the end of BENEATH, that pretty much put an end to anyone taking over the reins when Zaius retired. ***

H

ow did the apes explain where apes and man originated from?

*** The Almighty created the Ape in his own image. He gave him a sould and a mind. He set him apart from the beasts of the jungle and made him Lord of the planet... The Sacred Truths are self evident... (THAT is where apes came from in their culture.)

As far as where the humans came from, they fall into the beasts of the jungle catagory... ***





**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

.html <.html

On 1/25/08, mlccougar@... <mlccougar@...> wrote:

In a message dated 1/25/2008 5:54:51 PM Central Standard Time, hoknescards@... writes:

Why did Zaius actually know the truth yet keep passing on the lie for hundreds of years?

*** Zaius couldn't have kept passing the lie on for hundreds of years... He only had his bried lifetime to do any hiding... It'd have been up to his heirs of power to keep the deception going... But then again, with the Earth blown up at the end of BENEATH, that pretty much put an end to anyone taking over the reins when Zaius retired. ***

H

ow did the apes explain where apes and man originated from?

*** The Almighty created the Ape in his own image. He gave him a sould and a mind. He set him apart from the beasts of the jungle and made him Lord of the planet... The Sacred Truths are self evident... (THAT is where apes came from in their culture.)

As far as where the humans came from, they fall into the beasts of the jungle catagory... ***





**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
( http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)

In the past, we've often discussed apocalyptic art which feature the
destruction of the Statue of Liberty that were possible inspirations
for, or derivatives of the POTA classic ending.

Well someone has also noted these many takes on it and actually
collected a whole bunch of these on a website:

http://gerrycanavan.blogspot.com/2008/01/look-on-my-works-ye-mighty-and-despair.html"

Enjoy,

Dario

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In a message dated 1/25/2008 9:54:33 P.M. Central Standard Time, darios@... writes:

http://gerrycanavan .blogspot. com/2008/ 01/look-on- my-works- ye-mighty- and-despair..html"

 

Ozzy, eh?

<.html

It always seemed strange to me that Heston, who seems to have been so
right-wing in person, would take on a role like this. I don't know
for sure that he's a devout Christian, but POTA definately supports
the theory of evolution and he even tells Lucius to keep questioning
the older generation. Maybe I have Heston pegged wrong? Or maybe the
subtleties of the movie went over his head and he just thought it was
about talking monkeys?


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "jessica rotich" <jessicarotich@...>
wrote:

>
> I would stand up and raise my hand but I'm only religious when it

comes to

> selfish reasons (i.e., Hail Mary Full of Grace, Help me Find a

Parking

> Space)...I was raised a Catholic but I don't practice except when I

yell

> expletives, so I guess that wouldn't count, huh?
>
> Jessica.
>
>
> On 1/25/08, mlccougar@... <mlccougar@...> wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 1/25/2008 5:54:51 PM Central Standard Time,
> > hoknescards@... writes:
> >
> >
> > Why did Zaius actually know the truth yet keep passing on the lie

for

> > hundreds of years?
> >
> > *** Zaius couldn't have kept passing the lie on for hundreds of

years...

> > He only had his bried lifetime to do any hiding... It'd have been

up to his

> > heirs of power to keep the deception going... But then again,

with the Earth

> > blown up at the end of BENEATH, that pretty much put an end to

anyone taking

> > over the reins when Zaius retired. ***
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > H
> >
> > ow did the apes explain where apes and man originated from?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *** The Almighty created the Ape in his own image. He gave him a

sould and

> > a mind. He set him apart from the beasts of the jungle and made

him Lord of

> > the planet... The Sacred Truths are self evident... (THAT is

where apes came

> > from in their culture.)
> >
> > As far as where the humans came from, they fall into the beasts

of the

> > jungle catagory... ***
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > **************
> > Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
> > (
> > http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?

NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)

> >
> >
> >
> >
>

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----- Original Message -----

From: Terry Hoknes

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 11:34 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] How can A FALLEN GOD be the earliest TV script from 1973 and not be used ?

Anybody have info on when the first TV episode scripts were put together

A Fallen God appears to be the earliest and predates the tv series by 18 months

how is this possible?

was a TV Show in the works during the filming of the 4th movie !?!?!

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , TZer0@... wrote:

> POTA was the only thing between Fantastic Voyage and Star Wars. Unless

you count Soylent Green and Omega Man.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Huh? A year before STAR WARS came out MGM released LOGAN'S RUN, which
saved MGM financially. It was popular enough to have a 14-episode
spinoff TV series (sound familiar?...) and a Marvel Comics adaptation
that lasted 5 issues, followed by 2 more issues taking place after the
movie... and then they cancelled it. By that time, STAR WARS came out
and everybody forgot every SF movie that had ever come before...
including PLANET OF THE APES.

Patrick

.html

Patrick,

Good to see you again!

 

Tell me... do you think that its possible that POTA and Logan's Run could have existed in the same universe? I mean, the bubble city could have been on the other side of the Forbidden Zone, right?

Bill

 

In a message dated 1/27/2008 1:34:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com, TZer0@... wrote:
> POTA was the only thing between Fantastic Voyage and Star Wars. Unless
you count Soylent Green and Omega Man.
------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

Huh? A year before STAR WARS came out MGM released LOGAN'S RUN, which
saved MGM financially. It was popular enough to have a 14-episode
spinoff TV series (sound familiar?... ) and a Marvel Comics adaptation
that lasted 5 issues, followed by 2 more issues taking place after the
movie... and then they cancelled it. By that time, STAR WARS came out
and everybody forgot every SF movie that had ever come before...
including PLANET OF THE APES.

Patrick

 

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael & Sally Whitty" <sallywhitty@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Patrick
>
>
>
> Great to hear from you.
>
>
>
> Well, you know, this really shits me about how childish and sloppy Dehn was
> as a writer. This is not something that occurred to me, but now you have
> pointed it out.well let's just say if he wasn't already dead.. :-)
>
>
>
> Michael
==================================================

*** Mike, you're reading me wrong, here! I don't think Dehn was "childish and sloppy," though I do think he could've been more slavishly attentive to the on-screen details of PLANET when he wrote BENEATH. We'll never know his reasons for "changing" the 3978-date to 3955; most fans probably deem it a sloppy mistake on his part, though he may have had some reason of his own for altering the date -- after all, there had to have been some kind of mistake on Taylor's spaceflight to zing him back to Earth. Might not that mistake have affected the Earth-Time clock on Taylor's ship?

I don't think Dehn was "childish" in particular. BENEATH was not a 'kiddie' picture, in my opinion. My whole point about Zira taking the key and "double-locking" the door of the cage-wagon is that there would be consequences for her doing it -- consequences that she would have to face if not for the fact that Taylor triggers the Doomsday Bomb and prevents it.

Think about it. If the Bomb hadn't been detonated, and if there had been no salvaged ANSA spaceship nearby for Zira to accompany Cornelius and Milo in... then any half-competent police investigation of the Case of the Attacked Wagon-Driving Gorilla would lead inexorably to Zira being indicted for causing the attack Brent waged on that gorilla. If not for her "double-locking" (i.e. UNLOCKING) that cage door, then Brent could not have gotten out to attack that gorilla (and possibly kill him--at the least injure him).

And another aspect of this further intrigued me. If the investigators of this case were to find the abandoned cage-wagon, they would have noticed that somebody who knew how to unhitch the two horses from the wagon-hitch had done so. This implies that the humans who escaped from the cage were not mere beasts with limited intelligence. They, like Taylor, would be thought of as intelligent -- hence, dangerous -- humans. Perhaps humans from a jungle beyond the Forbidden Zone. Or, perhaps, "unsimian" human enemies from the inhabited Forbidden Zone who had been captured whilst trying to acquire wartime intelligence from the Apes... only to be freed by Zira's treasonous interference.

I can imagine some military investigator examining the evidence and concluding that Zira committed an act of treason, giving "aid and comfort to the Enemy"... I can imagine that investigator issuing a warrant for her arrest -- and, perhaps, an order for her execution by firing squad for Treason (since Ape City is under Martial Law, and military justice sometimes foregoes that whole habeus corpus thing...).

I can further imagine somebody who knows that Zira is to be arrested -- and not wanting her to be executed -- riding on ahead and forewarning her that she's in big BIG trouble. "They know you unlocked the wagon-cage! The gorilla driver was attacked, and almost killed! They know you helped those two humans to escape their fate at the Target Range! If you don't flee, they'll arrest you and have you shot for treason!"

What would Zira do, in the face of such a possibility?

She would flee Ape City. That is, Cornelius would flee with her, taking her someplace where they wouldn't be found by the authorities. Perhaps... to the site where Milo had indicated he had made an amazing find...

I look at these little nuggets of plot that Dehn set up and they get me to speculating... and this was one particular plot-nugget that, it seemed to me, just screamed for further exploration. Think of nowadays, in our post-9/11 world, where any bit of "evidence" can be given to Homeland Security people regarding suspicious behavior... and WHOOSH! before you know it somebody is arrested, slogged off to Gitmo without their being granted any contact with a legal representative, or told what they're being charged with.

It all goes to show that POTA is still relevant today -- perhaps even more so than when those films came out in the late 60s and early 70s. Maybe it's because history has a way of repeating itself, and we're in a situation similar to that time... what with an unpopular war, and a corrupt Presidency running the country into the ground with no end in sight.

>Sigh<

Patrick

============================================ 

>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> patrickmichaeltilton
> Sent: Monday, 14 January 2008 5:02 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: TZer0 - where are you?
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael & Sally Whitty" sallywhitty@
> wrote:
>
> And Patrick - what the?!?!?
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
>
> Hey, alla you monkeys, sorry I've been away so long.
>
> Even though I really really dislike the whole Christmas season, I hope that
> those of you who dig it had a good one. For that matter, those of you who
> don't dig it, I hope you also had a good holiday season -- be it Christmas,
> Channukah, Kwanzaa, Festivus, whathaveyou. For me, it was mostly the Airing
> of the Grievances... Oy!
>
> And am I glad it's over. Until next year, when they'll ratchet up the Xmas
> Machine even earlier, gobbling up not only 12 days in December... but all of
> November... October... hell, they'll probably stretch it all the way back
> into September! If there's a "War on Christmas" maybe it's because the
> Christmas fanatics have been annexing so much of the calendar year for their
> oh, so very special holiday. Christmas declared war and has been waging it
> for too goddamned long without anybody pushing it back into the calendrical
> niche where it belongs! I'll give 'em December 24th (i.e. the "Eve") and the
> 25th (i.e. the "Day")... hell, I'll even tolerate that "Twelve Days of
> Christmas" just like in that anti-Protestant ultra-Catholic carol/song.
> That's 12 friggin' days... one-thirtieth of the whole damn year. Isn't that
> smeggin' enough??? Phuq! There was Christmas crap in the mall before
> Halloween! A radio station here in Fargo started playing all Christmas music
> all the time on November 1st... replacing (for 2 months!) the Oldies station
> that plays almost all the listenable music that there is on the damned
> radio! Those bastards!
>
> Well... it's over. For now. For another, oh... 8 or 9 months, if we're
> lucky.
>
> Now that that's outta the way, let me set up a topic for POTA discussion.
>
> 1. Zira attempts to take custody of Brent and Nova, who had been captured
> the day earlier, after their visit with her and Cornelius.
>
> 2. Ursus intercedes, insisting that the two humans are "marked for Target
> Practice"... and a gorilla soldier none-too-gently leads the two unfortunate
> humans out to the courtyard, tugging on their leashes.
>
> 3. The gorilla puts Brent and Nova into one of those cage-wagons and locks
> the lock.
>
> 4. Zira, who has followed them out, says: "I'll take the key!"... and the
> gorilla gives it to her.
>
> WHY??? Won't he need it when he gets to the Target Range??? How the hell
> else is he supposed to unlock the damned lock?
>
> Answer: Perhaps all these cage-wagons have identical locks, and a single
> style of key opens all of them. That would be a good idea, just in case one
> gorilla accidentally lost his key to a cage-wagon lock: when he arrived
> somewhere where another key-toting gorilla may be, that other gorilla could
> use his key to open the cage. That kinda makes sense.
>
> To continue...
>
> 5. Zira, once the gorilla driver is about to head out for the Target Range,
> yells: "Wait! Wait! I'd better 'double-lock' the door!" ... and she unlocks
> it, whispering "Good luck!" to Brent.
>
> 6. Somewhere on the road from Ape City to the Target Range, Brent gets out
> of the cage... climbs up on top of the cage... and assaults the gorilla from
> behind and above. The gorilla isn't a pushover, though, and they duke it out
> for a bit... the gorilla eventually holding Brent by his arm and grinding
> his foot on Brent's shoulder...
>
> 7. ... and then the branch of a tree knocks that gorilla off the top of the
> wagon cage, flat on his back on the side of the road. Which is good for
> Brent.
>
> Question: What happens to Zira when they deduce that she must have aided the
> humans by unlocking the cage door?
>
> Think about it. If the gorilla dies, then eventually some other gorilla
> (probably) will happen along that road and will discover his corpse. And,
> depending on which direction this other gorilla is traveling, he either
> found the horseless cage-wagon first and then found the gorilla driver
> dead... or he found the dead gorilla and then found the horseless cage-wagon
> a bit further down the road. With the two humans gone -- having unhitched
> the horses from the wagon -- it will be obvious that they must have somehow
> gotten that lock unlocked. I'm assuming here that the gorillas aren't so
> stupid that they can't tell the difference between a working lock and a
> forced (i.e. damaged) lock.
>
> If the gorilla driver does not die... and if he later comes to... then he
> will tell whoever finds him -- and word will eventually reach the higher-ups
> in the military chain-of-command -- that the male human suddenly attacked
> him while he was driving the wagon. This despite the fact that the wagon's
> cage-lock had been locked firstly by a gorilla and then secondly
> "double-locked" by Zira!
>
> Zira's only prayer to avoid a charge of "Aiding and Abetting the escape of a
> Human"... or of Treason -- perhaps even "Accessory to Murder" -- is if that
> gorilla is killed by Brent and if her unlocking of that cage's lock is never
> traced to her.
>
> In my POTA project, I'm working in a whole subplot regarding a gorilla
> police officer who uses his deductive faculties to trace the attempted
> murder of that gorilla driver to Dr. Zira. When he finds out that the
> gorilla who first locked the cage subsequently gave the key to Zira (who had
> said, "I'll take the key!" remember), he'll figure out that Zira had been
> trying to help those two humans. Humans who were not merely brute animals,
> since they obviously knew how to unhitch the horses from the wagon.
>
> He'll deduce that those two humans (or, one of 'em, at any rate) must be
> unlike the majority of the pathetic brutes who've been hunted and captured.
> Indeed, they must be humans like that Talking Human who had caused such a
> ruckus recently.
>
> Perhaps that's why those gorillas who were searching for Brent and Nova near
> the Queensboro Plaza cave entrance were still doing so. "Why can't we go
> back to our outfits?" ... "Because the Sarge says to keep looking until we
> find 'em..."
>
> Because the Sarge (and his commanding officers) know that the humans who
> escaped from that wagon are like Taylor. Perhaps (they might wonder) those
> two humans might be scouts from the inhabited Forbidden Zone -- intelligent
> humans posing as the animal-types whom the gorillas hunt.
>
> It's lucky for Zira that she leaves Ape City with Cornelius and Milo when
> she does... because there's a warrant out for her arrest for either the
> murder or the attempted murder of that gorilla wagon-driver (depending on
> whether or not I decide to have that gorilla wind up dying from that
> collision with the branch and the hard fall to the ground.
>
> I know we've talked up virtually everything in POTAdom that there is to talk
> about... but I don't recall any discussion about this element of the story.
> Well, you've heard my take on this... so, you monkeys, DISCUSS!!!
>
> Patrick
>

--- atragon1@... wrote:


Patrick,
Good to see you again!

Tell me... do you think that its possible that POTA
and Logan's Run could have existed in the same
universe? I mean, the bubble city could have been on
the other side of the Forbidden Zone, right?

Bill
================================================

Hey there, Billy Baroo (think Ted Knight in
"CADDYSHACK" ;)

As I recall, this topic came up before, and I voiced
my opinion that LOGAN'S RUN (the MGM movie version, of
course, and not the novel it was sparsely based on)
could not exist in the same "universe" as POTA. For
two reasons:

1) The world of Man was wiped out in POTA by a nuclear
war, and there's no way in hell that Washington DC
would survive the megatonnage that it would be
targeted for. The ruins of Washington that Logan and
Jessica find are NOT nuclear in nature. The heat of a
nuke blast is in the thousands of degrees Fahrenheit,
and (as every Bradbury fan knows) the temperature at
which paper burns is 451 degrees. In the Capitol
Building, where the Old Man portrayed by Peter Ustinov
cracks open walnuts with the Speaker's gavel, there
are WOODEN DESKS and painted portraits of several
Presidents (on flammable canvas)... and BOOKS -- like
the one Jessica is skimming through when she looks up
to see Francis glaring hatefully at her. All that
stuff would've been incinerated by a nuke
detonation... which means that Washington DC (in the
LOGAN'S RUN scenario) did NOT get nuked... yet in POTA
it HAD TO HAVE BEEN NUKED. There's just no way it
would've escaped that fate, given that New York City
and its environs is thoroughly nuked.

and 2) In the POTA timeline, all the Dogs and Cats on
Earth die within one month's time in the year 1983...
yet the Old Man isn't totally alone in the ruins of
the Capitol Building. "I have all these cats!" he
tells Logan and Jessica.

Some people really really dig linking their favorite
franchises, and I can see the appeal. I remember when
DC and Marvel did their first crossover -- Superman
and Spider-Man -- and it was pretty damned cool. But
not all such crossovers really 'work', if you know
what I mean. Personally, I didn't really dig that POTA
and ALIEN NATION crossover "APE NATION" and I wish it
hadn't been done. Mostly because I thought "ALIEN
NATION" was mediocre, and that POTA was "slumming it"
by being involved in a crossover of that kind.

I love POTA and I love LOGAN'S RUN and I, for one,
don't want them crossed-over. Sure, some clever
bastard could go out of his way to "unflub" the
discrepancies between the two scenarios, and force-fit
them together. But why? Would it be an improvement?

I don't think so. It would be like making a movie with
both James Bond and Jonny Quest in it. They would have
to either lose the charm of the JQ set-up (a young
teenager with his Dad, his dog, his hindu pal, and
Race Bannon) in order to bring it up to the "adult"
level of Bond... or take all the piss-and-vinegar out
of the Bond formula in order to incorporate the
kid-friendly element. It would bastardize both JQ and
JB, so I say leave 'em both alone, dammit! Same goes
for POTA and LR.

Patrick

.html

In a message dated 1/27/2008 2:25:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

--- atragon1@aol. com wrote:

Patrick,
Good to see you again!

Tell me... do you think that its possible that POTA
and Logan's Run could have existed in the same
universe? I mean, the bubble city could have been on
the other side of the Forbidden Zone, right?

Bill
============ ========= ========= ========= =========

Hey there, Billy Baroo (think Ted Knight in
"CADDYSHACK" ;)

As I recall, this topic came up before, and I voiced
my opinion that LOGAN'S RUN (the MGM movie version, of
course, and not the novel it was sparsely based on)
could not exist in the same "universe" as POTA. For
two reasons:

1) The world of Man was wiped out in POTA by a nuclear
war, and there's no way in hell that Washington DC
would survive the megatonnage that it would be
targeted for. The ruins of Washington that Logan and
Jessica find are NOT nuclear in nature. The heat of a
nuke blast is in the thousands of degrees Fahrenheit,
and (as every Bradbury fan knows) the temperature at
which paper burns is 451 degrees. In the Capitol
Building, where the Old Man portrayed by Peter Ustinov
cracks open walnuts with the Speaker's gavel, there
are WOODEN DESKS and painted portraits of several
Presidents (on flammable canvas)... and BOOKS -- like
the one Jessica is skimming through when she looks up
to see Francis glaring hatefully at her. All that
stuff would've been incinerated by a nuke
detonation.. . which means that Washington DC (in the
LOGAN'S RUN scenario) did NOT get nuked... yet in POTA
it HAD TO HAVE BEEN NUKED. There's just no way it
would've escaped that fate, given that New York City
and its environs is thoroughly nuked.

and 2) In the POTA timeline, all the Dogs and Cats on
Earth die within one month's time in the year 1983...
yet the Old Man isn't totally alone in the ruins of
the Capitol Building. "I have all these cats!" he
tells Logan and Jessica.

Some people really really dig linking their favorite
franchises, and I can see the appeal. I remember when
DC and Marvel did their first crossover -- Superman
and Spider-Man -- and it was pretty damned cool. But
not all such crossovers really 'work', if you know
what I mean. Personally, I didn't really dig that POTA
and ALIEN NATION crossover "APE NATION" and I wish it
hadn't been done. Mostly because I thought "ALIEN
NATION" was mediocre, and that POTA was "slumming it"
by being involved in a crossover of that kind.

I love POTA and I love LOGAN'S RUN and I, for one,
don't want them crossed-over. Sure, some clever
bastard could go out of his way to "unflub" the
discrepancies between the two scenarios, and force-fit
them together. But why? Would it be an improvement?

I don't think so. It would be like making a movie with
both James Bond and Jonny Quest in it. They would have
to either lose the charm of the JQ set-up (a young
teenager with his Dad, his dog, his hindu pal, and
Race Bannon) in order to bring it up to the "adult"
level of Bond... or take all the piss-and-vinegar out
of the Bond formula in order to incorporate the
kid-friendly element. It would bastardize both JQ and
JB, so I say leave 'em both alone, dammit! Same goes
for POTA and LR.

Patrick

**************************

Well, maybe a neutron bomb was used on DC.. thus leaving the buildings intact. And as for the cats...well, I remember you explianing how the dog was seen in the Pilot episode of POTA - same rules can apply here...

Bill

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