More autographs have been added to my PotA site, thanks to Dean and
Rob!

https://pota.goatley.com/

Hunter

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , mlccougar@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 1/26/2008 5:14:21 PM Central Standard Time,
> neilmoxham@... writes:
>
>
> > It always seemed strange to me that Heston, who seems to have

been so

> > right-wing in person, would take on a role like this. I don't

know

> > for sure that he's a devout Christian, but POTA definitely

supports

> > the theory of evolution and he even tells Lucius to keep

questioning

> > the older generation. Maybe I have Heston pegged wrong? Or maybe

the

> > subtleties of the movie went over his head and he just thought it

was

> > about talking monkeys?
>
> *** Not necessarily true... In the "olden days" (pre-NRA) Heston

was pretty

> liberal... He even marched with Martin Luther King for equality,

etc.

>
> Plus, add to the fact(s) that an actor does not have to be what

they portray,

> that's why they're actors, to emote their characters thoughts,

feelings, and

> ideas... Supposing that Heston "was" conservative at the time: Does

that mean

> that he couldn't portray someone like Taylor? Saying that would be

like saying

> that Roddy couldn't portray a heterosexual because of his "real

life"

> choice...
>
> Heston certainly did not think the film was just about talking

apes... He

> "got it"... ***
> <BR><BR>**************<BR>Start the year off right. Easy ways to

stay in shape.<BR>

I didn't know that and it does improve my opinion of him. But I wish
I could remember things better to back up my point - I recall an
interview with someone who was sitting at the same table as Heston at
an awards ceremony, where Heston refused to talk to them or even
acknowledge their presence because he they were hippies, or because
they swore or something.I have it in mind that it could have been
someone involved in 'Easy Rider' or 'Head'.

It's true what you say about him being an actor of course, and that
might be the reason he had taken on the biblical roles earlier on in
his career, but POTA wasn't just a paying gig for him, he was
involved right from the planning stages and it mightn't have even
been made without him.

.html *** You say no ESCAPE, CONQUEST, or BATTLE like it's a bad thing...

(All right, ESCAPE isn't bad, though I'll go one forever referring to it as APES light.... CONQUEST too has it moments, but it is crazy to think that a mere 18 years after the events of ESCAPE the slaves are ready, willing, and smart enough to plot a revolution with their new Messiah... BATTLE, the worst of the bunch could have been okay had it been properly executed...)

Back to the TV thing, had it been done earlier, there's no proof hat it would have just been Burke and Virdon a few years earlier... Maybe Arthur would have been able to get Rod Serling to oversee the show and/or write scripts... Maybe even a Gene Roddenberry type could have been at the helm, making the content quite different...


In a message dated 1/28/2008 6:24:20 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 That would've meant no "Escape," "Conquest" or "Battle." I don't think a TV series would've been able to do the ideas those movies did. We would've just got Virdon and Burke a few years earlier. Jacobs still would've had to deal with the TV industry of the time.

----- Original Message -----
From: mlccougar@...
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] How can A FALLEN GOD be the earliest TV script from 1973 and not...


In a message dated 1/27/2008 1:33:47 AM Central Standard Time, hoknescards@... writes:

Anybody have info on when the first TV episode scripts were put together?
A Fallen God appears to be the earliest and predates the TV series by 18 months.
How is this possible?
Was a TV Show in the works during the filming of the 4th movie !?!?!

*** The idea of a TV series was actually kicked around in 1971, but Arthur decided against it due to the success of the films theatrically... BUT, one has to wonder if the TV series might have faired better had it come to fruition earlier... And, would have the show had been different had APJAC been in control of it, since APES was still in their possession at the time... ***

**************
Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 12:54 AM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] How can A FALLEN GOD be the earliest TV script from 1973 and not...

Might have been a much better deal!

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of mlccougar@aol. com
Sent: Monday, 28 January 2008 4:27 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] How can A FALLEN GOD be the earliest TV script from 1973 and not...

In a message dated 1/27/2008 1:33:47 AM Central Standard Time, hoknescards@ shaw.ca writes:

Anybody have info on when the first TV episode scripts were put together ?
A Fallen God appears to be the earliest and predates the TV series by 18 months.
How is this possible?
Was a TV Show in the works during the filming of the 4th movie !?!?!

*** The idea of a TV series was actually kicked around in 1971, but Arthur decided against it due to the success of the films theatrically. .. BUT, one has to wonder if the TV series might have faired better had it come to fruition earlier... And, would have the show had been different had APJAC been in control of it, since APES was still in their possession at the time... ***

<.html

.html <.html

1. Send $2.50 (inside the U.S.) or $3.50 (outside the U.S.) to Greg P. via his PayPal account: urko3085@sbcglobal. net. If you don't have a PayPal account email Greg at the same email to arrange to send him the payment by Money Order.
2. Send James a blank DVD-R or DVD+R with a self addressed stamped envelope (email him privately at jamesa1102@... for his address).

.html <.html

> it would be nice to have the label
> and cover on Hunter's site or in the PUBLIC domain. Any chance of that
> Hunter?

James's covers can be found on the Rarities2 page on my site (there
are download links at the top of the page):

https://pota.goatley.com/dvd/rarities2/

> Also, if you want a second design I know Neil does some ripper covers and
> labels..

If anyone else wants to make one, it's OK by me....

Hunter

> Additionally, anyone who wants a Rarities 2 DVD Wrap and Disc label,
> they can be Downloaded from the Group's Files section:

They can also be downloaded from the links at the top of my page:

https://pota.goatley.com/dvd/rarities2/

> Once again thanks to Hunter for putting this DVD together and to
> everyone who contributed all the rare gems from their own video
> collections to make this happen.

I'm ashamed to admit that I don't remember all the contributors to
this disc, as some of the items were sent in a couple of years ago.
Much of this disc's contents came from Cougar. Whitty contributed the
contents from the Japanese DVDs, Greg contributed the U.S. laserdisc
extras, a couple of the items came from my collection, and, sadly,
I've forgotten who sent the rest (the CBS promos, the CBS Fall TV
Preview---great finds, and I'm embarrassed that I've lost track of who
sent them). In any case, thanks to everyone!

Hunter

One more thing I forgot to mention: the Rarities 2 disc is in NTSC
format, but it has no Region code, which means it'll play anywhere
than can play NTSC discs.

Hunter

.html <.html

.html <.html

New Comic "Previews" has not 1 but 2 full page ads for the new Mego
Planet of the Apes re-issue toys. They are really pushing them.
Cornelius & the Soldier Ape are the first 2 availible. Pre ordered mine
for $18.99. Let's hope they do well & the others come soon.

.html What a beautiful DVD Wrap cover!!!  Thanks to ALL the contributors to this disk!

Melinda 

> 2a. Re: [pota] POTA Rarities 2 DVD
> Posted by: "Hunter Goatley" goathunter@... huntergoatley
> Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:44 am ((PST))
>
> > Additionally, anyone who wants a Rarities 2 DVD Wrap and Disc label,
> > they can be Downloaded from the Group's Files section:
>
> They can also be downloaded from the links at the top of my page:
>
> https://pota.goatley.com/dvd/rarities2/
>
> > Once again thanks to Hunter for putting this DVD together and to
> > everyone who contributed all the rare gems from their own video
> > collections to make this happen.
>
> I'm ashamed to admit that I don't remember all the contributors to
> this disc, as some of the items were sent in a couple of years ago.
> Much of this disc's contents came from Cougar. Whitty contributed the
> contents from the Japanese DVDs, Greg contributed the U.S. laserdisc
> extras, a couple of the items came from my collection, and, sadly,
> I've forgotten who sent the rest (the CBS promos, the CBS Fall TV
> Preview---great finds, and I'm embarrassed that I've lost track of who
> sent them). In any case, thanks to everyone!
>
> Hunter

<.html

.html

Reminder from:		PotaDG Yahoo! Group
Title:		James Franciscus' Birthday
Date:		Thursday January 31, 2008
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Notes:		Happy Birthday James! (Brent: Beneath the Planet of the Apes (1970))
Yahoo! Greetings:		Send a Yahoo! Greeting
Yahoo! Shopping:		Browse Yahoo! Shopping Gift Guide
Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options

Copyright © 2008  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John" <DrZaiusDavis@...> wrote:
>
> New Comic "Previews" has not 1 but 2 full page ads for the new Mego
> Planet of the Apes re-issue toys. They are really pushing them.
> Cornelius & the Soldier Ape are the first 2 availible. Pre ordered mine
> for $18.99. Let's hope they do well & the others come soon.
>
 If anyones interested here's the ad' page

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/POTAFigures.jpg

and here's the copy.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/Figures.jpg

Best wishes Graham.

> If anyones interested here's the ad' page

You beat me to it. I just got back from buying my copy of Previews,
but hadn't had a chance to scan them yet. ;-)

Hunter

> You beat me to it. I just got back from buying my copy of Previews,
> but hadn't had a chance to scan them yet. ;-)

I've done so, and added them to my site, too:

https://pota.goatley.com/

Hunter

Attachments :

Some of you may have already seen this, but I painted my own mego soldier ape and transformed him into General Ursus.  I am attaching his photos.

On Jan 31, 2008 10:18 AM, Hunter Goatley <goathunter@...> wrote:

> You beat me to it. I just got back from buying my copy of Previews,
> but hadn't had a chance to scan them yet. ;-)

I've done so, and added them to my site, too:

https://pota.goatley.com/

Hunter

.html <.html

.html <.html

Attachments :

On Jan 31, 2008 12:21 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@... > wrote:

These look GREAT!

Are they an exact copy?  Ie is the body plastic?

Michael

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hunter Goatley
Sent: Friday, 1 February 2008 4:19 AM

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Mego re-issues

 

> You beat me to it. I just got back from buying my copy of Previews,
> but hadn't had a chance to scan them yet. ;-)

I've done so, and added them to my site, too:

https://pota.goatley.com/

Hunter

Sorry Michael.  I thought you were asking about my soldier ape.  I have heard from the grapevine that the bodies are plastic on the reissues.

On Jan 31, 2008 12:28 PM, jessica rotich <jessicarotich@... > wrote:

Here are before and after photos.  I just repainted the head, created my own helmet and made the outfit from scratch (the metal is made out of aluminum tape glued onto fake leather, the studs on the collar are iron-on glam dots).  It's an old soldier ape I purchased from Ebay. The only body change I made to him in addition to his new makeup is that I changed out his old ape hands so now they are the black "CHIPS" hands. 

 

Jessica.

On Jan 31, 2008 12:21 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@...> wrote:

These look GREAT!

Are they an exact copy?  Ie is the body plastic?

Michael

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Hunter Goatley
Sent: Friday, 1 February 2008 4:19 AM

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Mego re-issues

 

> You beat me to it. I just got back from buying my copy of Previews,
> but hadn't had a chance to scan them yet. ;-)

I've done so, and added them to my site, too:

https://pota.goatley.com/

Hunter

Thanks. I've been waiting for this. Got my order in with my 'comic guy'.
Any idea of when these will actually ship?

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: John <DrZaiusDavis@...>
Date: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:16 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues

> New Comic "Previews" has not 1 but 2 full page ads for the new Mego
> Planet of the Apes re-issue toys. They are really pushing them.
> Cornelius & the Soldier Ape are the first 2 availible. Pre ordered
> mine
> for $18.99. Let's hope they do well & the others come soon.
>
>
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Thanks. I've been waiting for this. Got my order in with my 'comic guy'.
Any idea of when these will actually ship?

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: John < DrZaiusDavis@ aol.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:16 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues

> New Comic "Previews" has not 1 but 2 full page ads for the new Mego
> Planet of the Apes re-issue toys. They are really pushing them.
> Cornelius & the Soldier Ape are the first 2 availible. Pre ordered
> mine
> for $18.99. Let's hope they do well & the others come soon.
>
>
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/PotaDG/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

.html <.html

Just got word back from my comic guy after I ordered the Megos. It
when he tried to order the two for me from Diamond distributing, he
learned that they are only sold to retailers in lots of 8. Since my
guy is a small operation, he can't order 8 with myself only wanting to
buy two as he would have to try the sell the other 6 and he knows he
can't do that. So be forewarned, depending on the market in your area,
you may not be able to get them as easy as just saying "I want them".

This really sucks. Grrrh!

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Dario Sciola <darios@...>
Date: Thursday, January 31, 2008 9:21 pm
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues

>
> Thanks. I've been waiting for this. Got my order in with my
> 'comic guy'.
> Any idea of when these will actually ship?
>
> Dario
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John <DrZaiusDavis@...>
> Date: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:16 pm
> Subject: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues
>
> > New Comic "Previews" has not 1 but 2 full page ads for the new
> Mego
> > Planet of the Apes re-issue toys. They are really pushing them.
> > Cornelius & the Soldier Ape are the first 2 availible. Pre
> ordered
> > mine
> > for $18.99. Let's hope they do well & the others come soon.
> >
> >
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

can you order direct from diamond

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
>
>
> Just got word back from my comic guy after I ordered the Megos. It
> when he tried to order the two for me from Diamond distributing, he
> learned that they are only sold to retailers in lots of 8. Since my
> guy is a small operation, he can't order 8 with myself only wanting to
> buy two as he would have to try the sell the other 6 and he knows he
> can't do that. So be forewarned, depending on the market in your area,
> you may not be able to get them as easy as just saying "I want them".
>
> This really sucks. Grrrh!
>
> Dario
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dario Sciola <darios@...>
> Date: Thursday, January 31, 2008 9:21 pm
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues
>
> >
> > Thanks. I've been waiting for this. Got my order in with my
> > 'comic guy'.
> > Any idea of when these will actually ship?
> >
> > Dario
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: John <DrZaiusDavis@...>
> > Date: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:16 pm
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues
> >
> > > New Comic "Previews" has not 1 but 2 full page ads for the new
> > Mego
> > > Planet of the Apes re-issue toys. They are really pushing them.
> > > Cornelius & the Soldier Ape are the first 2 availible. Pre
> > ordered
> > > mine
> > > for $18.99. Let's hope they do well & the others come soon.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

very cool jessica

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "jessica rotich" <jessicarotich@...> wrote:
>
> Some of you may have already seen this, but I painted my own mego
soldier
> ape and transformed him into General Ursus. I am attaching his photos.
>
> On Jan 31, 2008 10:18 AM, Hunter Goatley <goathunter@...> wrote:
>
> > > You beat me to it. I just got back from buying my copy of
Previews,
> > > but hadn't had a chance to scan them yet. ;-)
> >
> > I've done so, and added them to my site, too:
> >
> > https://pota.goatley.com/
> >
> > Hunter
> >
> >
> >
>

Has anyone here ever seen the apes gum cards in Spanish? TV or Movie.
I remember seeing them when I was a kid (we used to spend a lot of
time south of the border), but have not run across any of then since
then. Has any one here seen or have any? Just curious.

Mark
Simianarms

.html *** Here again, I have to mention the MegoMuseum. There are several dealers on that websight that already sell the reissues of the Stra Trek figures, and they will be selling the APES too... Head on over to: www.megomuseum.com and look around  the place. You will find sellers on there who will sell you just the two figures when they come out this spring/early summer. ***






In a message dated 2/1/2008 8:42:55 AM Central Standard Time, darios@... writes:

Just got word back from my comic guy after I ordered the Megos. It
when he tried to order the two for me from Diamond distributing, he
learned that they are only sold to retailers in lots of 8. Since my
guy is a small operation, he can't order 8 with myself only wanting to
buy two as he would have to try the sell the other 6 and he knows he
can't do that. So be forewarned, depending on the market in your area,
you may not be able to get them as easy as just saying "I want them".

This really sucks. Grrrh!

Dario

**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: simianarms

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:12 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Collectables/Gum Cards Question

Has anyone here ever seen the apes gum cards in Spanish? TV or Movie.
I remember seeing them when I was a kid (we used to spend a lot of
time south of the border), but have not run across any of then since
then. Has any one here seen or have any? Just curious.

Mark
Simianarms

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 5:31 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues require minimun orders!

They’ll be all over eBay!

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Dario Sciola
Sent: Saturday, 2 February 2008 12:42 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues require minimun orders!

Just got word back from my comic guy after I ordered the Megos. It
when he tried to order the two for me from Diamond distributing, he
learned that they are only sold to retailers in lots of 8. Since my
guy is a small operation, he can't order 8 with myself only wanting to
buy two as he would have to try the sell the other 6 and he knows he
can't do that. So be forewarned, depending on the market in your area,
you may not be able to get them as easy as just saying "I want them".

This really sucks. Grrrh!

Dario

<.html

.html <.html

Attachments :

THAT'S IT!!!!!! I knew I had seen him somewhere! Thanks Michael....


Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@...> wrote:

 

---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

this is great news! Just curious though, Hunter...did you not include the Sonny and Cher spoof I sent you? No problem....just wondering! I will order one when I get back from Vegas!

Tim

Hunter Goatley <goathunter@...> wrote:

> Additionally, anyone who wants a Rarities 2 DVD Wrap and Disc label,
> they can be Downloaded from the Group's Files section:

They can also be downloaded from the links at the top of my page:

https://pota. goatley.com/ dvd/rarities2/

> Once again thanks to Hunter for putting this DVD together and to
> everyone who contributed all the rare gems from their own video
> collections to make this happen.

I'm ashamed to admit that I don't remember all the contributors to
this disc, as some of the items were sent in a couple of years ago.
Much of this disc's contents came from Cougar. Whitty contributed the
contents from the Japanese DVDs, Greg contributed the U.S. laserdisc
extras, a couple of the items came from my collection, and, sadly,
I've forgotten who sent the rest (the CBS promos, the CBS Fall TV
Preview---great finds, and I'm embarrassed that I've lost track of who
sent them). In any case, thanks to everyone!

Hunter

---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

I have one....of Burke and Virdon....I don't seem to
have a pic of it on my laptop and I am out of town...I
will scan it when I get home after tuesday...

Tim
--- simianarms <simianarms@...> wrote:

> Has anyone here ever seen the apes gum cards in
> Spanish? TV or Movie.
> I remember seeing them when I was a kid (we used to
> spend a lot of
> time south of the border), but have not run across
> any of then since
> then. Has any one here seen or have any? Just
> curious.
>
> Mark
> Simianarms
>
>

The trouble is, Mike, that I've already got a LOGAN'S RUN (movie) scenario that I've been fleshing out for another novelization project, and in order for it to work as best I can, it absolutely cannot mesh with POTA.

Briefly (or, as is my wont, not-so-briefly!), here it is (i.e. my LOGAN'S RUN movie scenario):

1) Around 2040 or so, an astrophysicist using a superduper sophisticated bit of software called STARLIFE, becomes able to predict to near 100% accuracy the fate of any star -- particularly a star near the end of its hydrogen-fusing stage -- right down to the Year, Month, Day, and Hour. If a given star has X amount of Hydrogen and is fusing it at a rate Y, then in Z time the Hydrogen will be used up and the star will collapse and blow up as a Supernova.

2) The astrophysicist plugs in the data from as many giant stars in the Milky Way as are in a stellar database... and discovers that the star known as Betelgeuse (Alpha Orionis) not only will explode but, in fact, already has exploded -- in the mid 17th Century. The "gamma ray burst" generated by that Hypernova has been speeding towards our solar system since A.D. 1645 and the distance it has to travel is 427 lightyears. So, in A.D. 2072 -- i.e. in 30 years' time -- the Earth will be scorched by a dose of radiation which will kill off virtually every living thing on the planet. Including the oceanic algae, the base of the food chain. The ozone layer will be blown off like a dandelion's spores. The radiation dose will last just over 11 hours: the first moments will cook one hemisphere of the planet and, as the world turns on its axis, 11 of the remaining 12 timezones will be irradiated...

3) ... with just one sliver of area left undamaged by the Gamma Ray Burst. This small strip of longitude will include a tiny area of the United States on the East Coast -- specifically, a stretch of land including most of eastern Delaware.

4) In the 30 years Mankind has left, the U.S. builds "The City" (i.e. the Domed City, the opaque domes designed to reflect away the most harmful wavelengths of light from the Hypernova) in that single spot of U.S. territory which will be relatively safe from the Gamma Ray blastwave. The site is on the aptly named "Slaughter Beach" at latitude 38 degrees 56 minutes 33 seconds North. This will prove to be the same latitude as two important sites from antiquity: the landing site of Deucalion's ark (Dodona in Greece) and the alleged landing site of Noah's Ark (Deucalion was the Greek "Noah"). And, the City is also situated at a longitude exactly 120 degrees West of the Mt. Ararat site where Noah's Ark is thought (by believers) to be.

5) The City is built by scientists who hope to safeguard a remnant of Mankind and a genome database of all known Earth life. They also hope that robotic servo-mechanisms will be able to repair the Earth's ecology during the next several centuries (converting seawater to ozone and pumping it back into the atmosphere to repair the ozone layer, that sort of thing). It is also hoped that the various species of plants and animals which will go extinct when the Hypernova hits will later be able to be re-introduced to a renewed Earth's ecosystem -- by using a machine known as a Breeder (an artificial womb) to incubate newly created representatives of the "extinct" species whose genomes are on file.

6) The trouble is... there is only room in the City to house around 800,000 people with relative comfort. And, when the City is sealed off from the Outside world, there is no mandatory death-age. Half of the population is comprised of scientific geniuses and other supposedly indispensable people... and the other half is comprised of the Rich, the Influential... and the Religiously Intolerant.

7) A religion has come to be instituted, being an amalgam of Judeo-Christian and archaic Egyptian motifs -- in specific, the Aten-worshipping religion of the Egyptian "heretic" pharaoh Akhenaten. It is believed (by these Neo-Atenists) that Akhenaten was divinely inspired by the same God who later came to be worshipped as Adonai by the Israelites ("Aten" = "Adon" + the Hebrew linguistic ending "-ai"... also = Adonis of Greek myth). The symbol of the "Aten" was a huge RED disk emanating rays of divine light... and each ray was depicted ending with a Hand holding the Egyptian hieroglyphic symbol for Life, the ANKH . The Neo-Atenists believe that the End of the World they are anticipating in A.D. 2072 was made known to Akhenaten (and was later incorporated in the apocalyptic literature of the Hebrews). In other words, the upcoming Catastrophe isn't just a random event that just happens to occur... it is GOD'S VENGEANCE for Mankind's "sin"...

8) When the "Catastrophe" (as it is called) hits the world on 29 February 2072, about 10 billion people die (not to mention all other life on Earth excepting the extremophiles that exists in the volcanic vents at the bottom of the oceans). The survivors of the Catastrophe feel "survivor's guilt" and tend to convert to the Ne0-Atenist religion. These religious people take over the rule of the City and institute draconian morality laws that prove to be disastrous (i.e. no abortion... no contraception... the sanctity of all human life -- even that of the Alzheimer-suffering senile coots -- is mandated by law).

9) As a result, the City soon suffers from Overpopulation and Pollution... and Famine. The sublevel seafood processing facility has had to shut down because the massive die-off of fish in the oceans has resulted in the fact that the "fish, plankton, seagreens and protein from the sea... stopped coming" in the mechanical Harvesters on "Harvest Day". The intolerant theocracy has brought the last remnant of Mankind to the brink of extinction, just as the Scientist-faction knew they would. But the Scientists had been in the minority when massive conversions to the Neo-Atenist religion tilted the balance of power.

10) The Scientists have an Artificial Intelligence computer (which they call ALMATER ), and they feed as much information as they can into its databanks, asking it to come up with a way -- a plan-of-action -- to save Mankind from itself. The ALMATER makes a study of the human mind (using brain/machine interface machines and brainwave-analyzing programs) and concludes that it (or "she" since it speaks with a soft feminine voice, sort of like a female HAL 9000) can prevent the destruction of this remnant of Mankind. But it won't be easy and it won't be pretty.

11) ALMATER deduces that Man is afraid of death and yearns to be able to live forever... yet also fears and hates growing old and decrepit. How can Mankind exist forever Young and yet never "die"...? ALMATER's answer is to devise a method whereby a human being's life experiences -- every memory recorded in a human brain -- can be "uploaded" into the ALMATER's files (and "saved" literally and metaphorically) to later be "downloaded" into the brain of a newly born human child.

12) the ALMATER invents a new science-based religion -- "RENEWAL" -- whereby a citizen who reaches the threshold age when Youth turns into "Old age" (age 30) voluntarily has his/her brain scanned by the ALMATER's mnemonic-recording facility... and then the citizen voluntarily undergoes a Phoenix-like experience: FLAME-OUT of the "old" body... so that his/her memories can be assigned to a newborn baby in the Nursery.

13) in the RE-LIVE parlors (at Arcade and elsewhere), a citizen will be able to relive a memory from his/her current life... OR he/she will be able, also, to access pre-Renewal memories ... memories of his/her Past Life -- those memories that had been recorded just prior to FLAME-OUT at the Carrousel ceremony.

14) In order to pull off this plan, the ALMATER has to be able to kill off the "old" generation and indoctrinate the newest Youth generation in the City. The ALMATER accomplishes this by first having the Nursery area set up so that no adults can get access to the babies and children (i.e. safeguarding the innocents from physical, emotional, and sexual abuse by adults). Also, the ALMATER has the drinking water in the City laced with abortifacient pharmaceuticals... causing all adult women in that last "old" generation to become barren, the men to become sterile. From that point on, the new batch of citizens bred in the Breeder-machines will be the gene pool from which all subsequent generations will arise.

15) The ALMATER is programmed to save Mankind... to fulfill their needs... but It ("She") cannot kill human beings (due to Asimovian-style "Laws of Robotics"). ALMATER needs the last "Old" generation to die off and, thenceforward, everybody who has lived a full 30 year lifespan to die -- voluntarily, if possible. And those who don't volunteer? The ALMATER selects a subgroup from the first Breeder-born batch of new citizens... a group which will serve the City as an elite. The problem of "culling" the population will be solved by training HUMANS to kill off the excess humans. Behaviorally inhibited from directly causing the death of any human being, the ALMATER "authorizes" certain of the newly-born humans to become the Sandmen who will "terminate" the lives of the "runners".

16) Thus, a war is fought in the early 22nd Century, with robotic "servo-mechanisms" sealing off certain areas of the City, to segregate the population by Age -- with new citizens having Lifeclocks implanted in their right-hand's palm, changing colors every 30 "seasons" (i.e. every 7.5 years or 90 months, each "month" being exactly 30 days long, and named after the zodiacal constellations that nobody can see anymore under the skies covered by opaque domes). When the first generation of Sandmen are unleashed (armed with their Guns), they are given the mission of herding all older-than-30 citizens to the Mind-Recording chamber in the lower portion of the Carrousel tower: those who wish to have a chance to live on can do so only if they allow their Minds to be "read" and their memories recorded... and for their bodies then to undergo the Phoenix-like FLAME-OUT ceremony. Those who don't accept it... are to be Terminated. The war is won by the Sandmen, the Young, against the last Old generation.

17) Thus, the "new way" becomes forced on the City by the ALMATER -- with even many of the Scientist faction alarmed and surprised at what has transpired. The ALMATER can remotely control any servo-mechanism... and it ("she") used that control to render most of the City's people sterile and barren, so that all subsequent breeding could be controlled by computer in the Nursery. ALMATER would give the people what their subconscious minds truly wished for: a "perfect world of total pleasure" and the freedom to live and love and party and enjoy life in a carefree way... for a limited time. With the promise of potential Renewal after each 30-year lifespan.

-------------------

The thing is, though, that this LOGAN'S RUN scenario specifies that there was a Catastrophe and that Mankind -- virtually all of the human race, excepting the ancestors of the "Old Man" who survived the Catastrophe in the underground shelters built for the U.S. Government in Washington D.C. -- was otherwise completely annihilated. The filmmakers never explicitly stated the nature of this Catastrophe, but I've concluded that the best explanation for it is a supernova (or Hypernova) event which has what it takes to do it. And, being a Catastrophe that could be scientifically anticipated (by the astrophysicist with the STARLIFE software), Mankind could prepare their own safekeeping... by building a stationary "Ark"-type environment, an arcology (if you will) that is designed to be big enough to provide a biosphere able to sustain upwards of 800,000 people or so.

In the POTA timeline, though, I cannot have such a Hypernova event occur in A.D. 2072 (or thereabouts). I require it for LOGAN'S RUN, but I absolutely cannot have it happen in a POTA scenario. Imagine... if Caesar is born in 1973 and dies about 600 years prior to the "nice" Lawgiver talking about him in A.D. 2670, then that means that Caesar died around A.D. 2070, around the age of 100. I don't see any chance of the Ape-and-Human community ruled by Caesar surviving the Hypernova of Betelgeuse around the time of Caesar's death and still being around in pastoral bliss 6 centuries later; I also can't fathom Mankind (i.e. in the U.S.A.) being able to construct a technologically sophisticated and huuuuge Domed City in the decades after an all-out Global Thermonuclear War. In my LOGAN'S RUN scenario, the Outside world becomes essentially uninhabitable (that is, without special protection from harmful radiation, solar and cosmic) for a period of almost 200 years. It is only in the lifetime of the Old Man's parents that the ozone layer is reconstituted (artificially, by automated servo-mechanisms) and that it becomes relatively safe to go outdoors -- and even then, for some time, only at night. There's no way that the Ape and Human populations living elsewhere in North America could survive -- not to mention their horses, cows, bulls, and other domesticated farm animals.

Like I said, I can understand why some people dig crossover stories, meshing their favorite franchises... but I don't think that POTA and LOGAN'S RUN can or should mesh. The only link between the two, in my mind, would be Taylor's line to Lucius: "Remember, never trust anybody over Thirty!" I could see the ALMATER computer becoming aware of that line of dialogue from an "old" movie and becoming aware of a pervasive Generation Gap that tends to result in the Youth growing to distrust the Old... to distrust themselves when they grow to be Old. The solution: a mandated Death Age of 30.

Patrick

________________________________________________________

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael & Sally Whitty" <sallywhitty@...> wrote:
>
> Precisely, Bill.
>
>
>
> Patrick - if you were TRYING to make them of the same universe, I reckon you
> COULD! :-)
>
>
>
> MIchael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> atragon1@...
> Sent: Monday, 28 January 2008 7:49 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Dead or Alive (?)
>
>
>
> **************************
>
> Well, maybe a neutron bomb was used on DC.. thus leaving the buildings
> intact. And as for the cats...well, I remember you explianing how the dog
> was seen in the Pilot episode of POTA - same rules can apply here...
>
> Bill
>

I just listened to the last part of Broken Sea's audio adaptation. Yes
it's finally finished, but don't worry - Beneath is already in the works
(!) I don't think it really worked, but I think if the project was
tightened up a bit and if a few intelligent twists were added to the
story without conflicting with the established story, then there's the
potential for Beneath to at least be worth a listen.

Anyway, I know most of you have made up your minds about Broken Sea
already, what I wanted to say was that it got me thinking about two
things from the movie: the quote from the Simian Scrolls - "Proteus
brought the upright beast into the garden and chained him to a tree and
the children did make sport of him", and also the man "in pretty bad
shape" with false teeth, glasses and failing heart (and the doll), but
living in Cornelius' cave at the end of human civilisation. I don't
think these refernces have been explored, and I'm not volunteering, but
maybe I could plant the seeds in the minds of some creative writer or
artist out there?

Excellent! Thanks to Hunter and Greg and everyone else involved!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Melinda G Kettler <mgkettler@...>
wrote:

>
>
> What a beautiful DVD Wrap cover!!! Thanks to ALL the contributors

to this disk!

>
> Melinda
>
> > 2a. Re: [pota] POTA Rarities 2 DVD
> > Posted by: "Hunter Goatley" goathunter@... huntergoatley
> > Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:44 am ((PST))
> >
> > > Additionally, anyone who wants a Rarities 2 DVD Wrap and Disc

label,

> > > they can be Downloaded from the Group's Files section:
> >
> > They can also be downloaded from the links at the top of my page:
> >
> > https://pota.goatley.com/dvd/rarities2/
> >
> > > Once again thanks to Hunter for putting this DVD together and to
> > > everyone who contributed all the rare gems from their own video
> > > collections to make this happen.
> >
> > I'm ashamed to admit that I don't remember all the contributors to
> > this disc, as some of the items were sent in a couple of years

ago.

> > Much of this disc's contents came from Cougar. Whitty

contributed the

> > contents from the Japanese DVDs, Greg contributed the U.S.

laserdisc

> > extras, a couple of the items came from my collection, and, sadly,
> > I've forgotten who sent the rest (the CBS promos, the CBS Fall TV
> > Preview---great finds, and I'm embarrassed that I've lost track

of who

> > sent them). In any case, thanks to everyone!
> >
> > Hunter
>

Actually, I'm considering that option now. When buying the box of 8,
the price for the distributor is quite a discount to the full retail
sales price. My 'comic guy' who used to own a store, now operates out of
his home on a part time basis (2 afternoons a week) so because of this
he gives heavy discounts. I've asked him how much he would charge me for
the full box, and then I'm going to try to find out how much it would
cost to send these to others either US or Canada. Maybe I can get 3
others that want a set like me and we can work something out.

I sure hope so.

Ebay can be great at times but not always, especially living in Canada.
Even though most thing that people send from the US cost as much to send
it to Canada as in the US itself, there are a lot of people that either
just won't bother (can never figure that out, it's just a different
address!), or if they do sell to Canadians, they sometimes try to rip us
off on shipping. It just makes it a bit more of a pain.

Stay tuned.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@...>
Date: Friday, February 1, 2008 7:07 pm
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues require minimun orders!

>
> so your best bet is to get a couple POTA fans together to buy a
> case from a comics dealer
> or just wait it out and buy them on ebay and save the hassle
>
>

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Dario Sciola

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2008 2:35 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues : looking into self distribution

Actually, I'm considering that option now. When buying the box of 8,
the price for the distributor is quite a discount to the full retail
sales price. My 'comic guy' who used to own a store, now operates out of
his home on a part time basis (2 afternoons a week) so because of this
he gives heavy discounts. I've asked him how much he would charge me for
the full box, and then I'm going to try to find out how much it would
cost to send these to others either US or Canada. Maybe I can get 3
others that want a set like me and we can work something out.

I sure hope so.

Ebay can be great at times but not always, especially living in Canada.
Even though most thing that people send from the US cost as much to send
it to Canada as in the US itself, there are a lot of people that either
just won't bother (can never figure that out, it's just a different
address!), or if they do sell to Canadians, they sometimes try to rip us
off on shipping. It just makes it a bit more of a pain.

Stay tuned.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@ shaw.ca>
Date: Friday, February 1, 2008 7:07 pm
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues require minimun orders!

>
> so your best bet is to get a couple POTA fans together to buy a
> case from a comics dealer
> or just wait it out and buy them on ebay and save the hassle
>
>

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, atragon1@... wrote:

> Well, maybe a neutron bomb was used on DC.. thus leaving the buildings
> intact. And as for the cats...well, I remember you explaining how the dog was seen
> in the Pilot episode of POTA - same rules can apply here...
> Bill

____________________________________

*** Regarding a neutron bomb being used on Washington D.C., remember that Logan and Jessica never see the remains of the millions of victims killed by such radiation in Washington. If such a bomb had gone off, there would've been tens of thousands of cars littering the streets, with corpses in them. We don't see any trace of such victims in LOGAN'S RUN. In fact, when Logan and Jessica make their way through the monuments of Washington, Jessica asks, "What do you suppose happened to all the people?" and Logan replies, "They must have left here, long ago."

The 'evidence' (such as there is) is that Washington D.C. had been abandoned. In my scenario, the people knew the exact time when the Catastrophe would hit, and they did their damnedest to hide in bomb shelters and basements, with the only longterm survivors in the D.C. area being the privileged members of the U.S. Government (the Old Man being a descendant of the last U.S. President -- which is why he refers to the paintings of the Presidents that he has in the Old Senate Chamber of the Capitol Building as "family"), sequestered in the Cold War shelters built in the D.C. area, built to withstand a nuclear war.

And, quite frankly, I don't see why the enemies of the U.S. (in the POTA nuke war scenario) would nuke the New York area wholesale and only use neutron bombs on Washington. If anything, it would be the other way around: nukes for Washington and neutron bombs for NYC. As the seat of government, Washington would be targeted for utter destruction and NYC would be spared the loss of its cultural treasures.

As for my explanation for Arno's dog in the TV series, well, that's another bag entirely!

My scenario links that dog to a character (or, a group of characters) who are hinted at in that pilot episode -- the "as-tro-nauts" who had shown up more than a decade before 3085. In specific, I have a character whose longterm goal is to save Humanity, America, and the Earth (if he can), and he -- being a human mind essentially trapped within a cyborg body -- is the lone survivor of that group of astronauts. He knows that Colonel Alan Virdon is destined to show up in 3085 because an older version of Virdon had time-traveled back from 3085 to 1983 to unwittingly unleash the Pet Plague that killed off all the Dogs and Cats. This character (named Vaughn Newman, for a number of reasons) had been alive then, a paraplegic with an active mind who worked for a science institute up in an orbiting L5 space station doing tele-operating work building lunar habitats and bases. At one point his decrepit body is killed whilst his mind is interfaced with a cyborg artificial brain... and his personality becomes trapped within it. The robotic brain acquires a human "soul" with Vaughn's personality... yet the machine half of his brain is subject to Programming (i.e. the imposition of a programmer's Will over his own Self Will). After Older-Virdon shows up in 1983, he eventually ascends to the Presidency during the madness of the Global Thermonuclear War -- and he gives a Presidential Directive to the cyborg-Vaughn to "save Mankind, America, and the Earth"... if he can. Blessed or cursed with a cyborg's extended longevity, Vaughn-bot uses merciless logic to seek to fulfill that order.

He reasons that the various Time Traveling events (the Ape-onauts' trip from Doomsday to 1973... Virdon's trip from 3085 to 1983...) involve Causality problems that must be resolved. Since the appearances of the Ape-onauts and of Virdon-from-the-Future cannot be undone, he reasons that the Futures experienced by the Ape-onauts and by Virdon are set-in-stone . Because Older-Virdon exists in 1983 (and following), the Younger-Virdon is destined to appear in 3085, the time from whence he came.

Cyborg-Vaughn, being one of the Astronauts who appeared around 3073 in the Central City area, knew then that in a bit over 10 years' time Virdon's ship -- trapped in a Time Warp in the Alpha Centauri system -- would zip through hyperspace and show up back at Earth.

So, Vaughn waits until the moment -- the date 3-21-3085 -- and Presto! Virdon's ship pops into Earth's gravity well and begins falling... It is Vaughn, in the ANSA flight testing facility near California, who remotely pilots Virdon's ship down to its safe landing near Chalo.

During the 10+ years he's been awaiting Virdon's arrival, Vaughn knows that Virdon must become infected with a Plague virus capable of annihilating every dog and cat living on Earth in 1983. Virdon didn't leave Earth with such a virus, and he never left his spacecraft when in Alpha Centauri space... meaning that he had to have been infected during the several months' time he spent on the Planet of the Apes in 3085.

Vaughn, using sophisticated genome-mapping and gene-splicing techniques, is able to manufacture the Pet Plague virus, using DNA extrapolated from the common ancestor of all Dogs and Cats. He needs test animals, though, to test his Dog-and-Cat-killing virus... so he genetically engineers a group of test subjects -- bringing back to existence representatives of the Canine and Feline species just like the Jurassic Park dudes brought back the Dinosaurs.

Arno's dog is designed to be immune to the Plague virus, which is why that dog is alive. How Arno came to be its owner/master is another story, which I won't go into here. The point is, though, that Vaughn is able to cook up that deadly virus, prove to his satisfaction that it is capable of killing all dogs and cats unequipped with the immunity to it, and prepare it for infecting Alan Virdon.

Before Virdon goes back through Time, back to "his time" to see his wife and son again, Vaughn successfully infects him with the Pet Plague... so that Virdon unwittingly aids him in his longterm goal to tie-up all the loose ends of Causality, unaware that his older self (in the Past) had ordered Younger-Vaughn to embark on a course of action that would "save Mankind, America, and the Earth."

As part of his all-too-logical plan to accomplish this, Vaughn sacrifices the Dogs and Cats of 1983's world. A high price to pay... but one he knew had to happen, since otherwise the "prehistory" (or, earliest hidden history) of the Apes wouldn't and couldn't happen. A Pet Plague has to happen... so he makes it happen. From 1983 until 3075 or so, there are absolutely no Dogs (or Cats) in existence on the planet Earth, since the Pet Plague carried by Virdon back to the Past from 3085 had been unleashed. Arno's dog (and the other test animals artificially bred by Vaughn during that lone decade prior to Virdon's arrival) represents the first re-introduced extinct species.

That, Bill, is my particular scenario in regards to Arno's dog... my way of explaining the presence of a dog on the Planet of the Apes in 3085. My scenario regarding this dog does not mesh with the notion of there being a whole bunch of cats in the ruins of Washington D.C. in the Year of the City 2274 keeping an Old Man company.

I've jumped through enough hoops just trying to figure out a scenario I find acceptably plausible for my POTA epic... it would be a pain in the arse to try to force-fit the LOGAN'S RUN cats into this scenario as well!

Patrick

 

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, atragon1@... wrote:

> I don't think that Zira had anything to fear -- i.e., prosecution for the
> ramifications of letting Brent escape. By that time, she and her husband had
> already been quietly cleared of heresy charges -- a much more serious crime.
> Zira's defiance can also be seen when she refuses to applaud after Ursus''
> speech.
>
> And, as we can all conclude, the reason for the dismissal of the heresy
> charges was that a deal was cut between C&Z and Dr. Zaius. All heresy charges
> were dropped in order to avoid a very public trial. The capital trial would
> yield information (the doll, the cave, the fates of Landon & Dodge - of which
> there were many eyewitnesses) that would bring the very foundations of ape
> society to its knees. A trial would bring all these pieces together -- and yield
> the "great secret" that cannot be revealed.
> Bill

____________________________________________________________

***I would agree that Zaius cut a deal with Cornelius and Zira to dismiss the heresy charges in exchange for their silence regarding the evidence of the Terrible Secret. But why did Zaius cut a deal with them? After all, he had them in his custody, under his power. He could've had them silenced permanently then-and-there at the Cave site. What changed to prompt Zaius to go back on his plan to make them both stand trial for heresy?

Two things.

1) Zaius discovers that Zira is pregnant. Though Zaius may be willing to do various "inexcusable" things to keep the Terrible Secret... killing an unborn ape child is not one of them. Think about it. Would Zaius have had any recourse other than having Zira and Cornelius -- and perhaps Lucius, too -- killed? If he puts them on trial for heresy, that means that he's running the risk that their own testimony for their defense would involve their eyewitness account of him destroying exculpatory evidence using explosives. Zaius can't run the risk of a public trial where Zira and Cornelius' own sympathizers might hear their version of the whole shebang. In order to keep the Terrible Secret, Zaius will have to have them killed -- just as Chief Councillor Zaius (in 3085) was willing "to have poor Galen killed" after he had been exposed to similar evidence that flouted the Terrible Secret.

But when it is revealed that Zira is pregnant -- and has been pregnant all along, for some 7 or 8 months, it seems -- Zaius cannot bring himself to bloody his hands. Besides, if he indeed is aware of the contents of the "Secret Scrolls"... those "history scrolls kept hidden from the masses"... then he must know that Zira's pregnancy just might be the fulfillment of the set-up to the ancient story of the chimpanzee King Caesar... "born of two parent apes who descended on Earth from Earth's own future..." If Zaius had known that ancient story, knowing that it involved the imminent destruction of the world in the year "Thirty-Nine-Fifty"... then he might very well have thought that as long as Cornelius and Zira were to remain unmarried and childless, then the world would keep on sailing through the Universe safe from Destiny...

... but when Zira reveals that she's pregnant, then Zaius suspects that Destiny is inexorable. That Zira's destiny is to go backwards through Time after the world is destroyed (soon), to give birth to the "savior" who had been known in Prehistory as "Caesar"... that the high-tech vehicles in which Taylor (and othes?) were able to fly also served as vessels to travel through Time.

Perhaps that is why Zaius would tell Zira and Cornelius that they must be "the guardians of the higher principles of Science" during his absence with Ursus in the Forbidden Zone. Zaius will accompany Ursus, perhaps, in order to prevent Ursus from triggering the Doomsday that he -- alone -- will undoubtedly cause to happen. And, if that is unsuccessful, then perhaps Zira and Cornelius will find their way to the Time Machine-like spaceship that will bring them to the Past... to begin the History.

"The entire future of our civilization may be yours to protect -- or destroy -- so, think well before you act." Ironically, the "future" of the Ape civilization will be in the Past, once the Ape-onauts zip back through Time.

And... the other thing.

2) On the way back to Ape City from the Cave site, perhaps Zaius discovers that in his absence Ursus has seized power and instituted Martial Law . The "incident" regarding the 12th scout supplies Ursus with the means to take control -- even over the Academy. Realizing that he could use more friends -- even those whom he has burned -- Zaius cuts the deal with Zira and Cornelius, knowing that the revolution they had in mind was not a violent one -- merely a cultural paradigm shift and some historical revisionism. But Ursus promises to go on "a rampage of conquest"... and Zaius, however much he may hate the Human Race, fears the possibility that intelligent yet unknown Humans dwelling in the hateful Forbidden Zone might become incredibly dangerous if riled up by an invasion by Ursus' army.

Bill, you need to keep in mind that during the events of BENEATH, it isn't Zaius who's in charge of the Ape society anymore... it's Ursus ! General Ursus, having seized power, has the ability to suspend whatever passes for a Constitution in the Apes' legal system. Zira and Cornelius were spared, before, by Zaius in regards to their heresy charges. But when Zira commits an act that leads to the serious injury -- perhaps the death -- of a gorilla soldier during a time when the Apes are under Martial Law... then she truly is in danger. If she could be "in danger" just from excessive clapping during Ursus' speech to the Citizens' Council, then how much more danger would she be in were it to be discovered through a military investigation that she had endangered the life of a gorilla soldier by unlocking a cage carrying dangerous "animals"?

When the Army was about to cross the bridge leading out of Ape City, a group of pacifistic chimpanzee protestors blocked their way. What was Ursus' first reaction? He ordered one of his underlings to "Get them out of the way!"... and Zaius quickly says "Wait!" -- just as the gorilla soldier was about to open fire on the protestors! "We don't want martyrs , do we?" As a result, Ursus orders his soldiers to "do it quietly"... and the gorillas proceed to clear the protesting chimps out of the Army's way, by putting them into the very cages that were used to transport captured humans! We hear shouts of "Gorilla brutality!"

If Ursus had been prepared to have protesting chimpanzees gunned down -- for treason, ostensibly -- then what sort of punishment would Zira expect to face if her treasonous unlocking of the cage-wagon were to be made known? Zira's act was not exactly one of nonviolent resistance: she put that gorilla soldier in harm's way.

One more thing: it may very well have galled Ursus to know that Zaius had allowed Taylor to go with his woman, without suffering any consequences for having shot -- and presumably killed -- at least one of the gorillas who had accompanied Zaius on their pursuit of Cornelius' band of fugitives. And when Zaius cut his deal with Zira and Cornelius, seemingly writing off the dead and/or wounded gorilla soldiers, and not deeming those fugitive heretic chimpanzees deserving of punishment for the actions of Taylor (who had been armed with a rifle provided by Cornelius )... what must Ursus have thought of Zaius?

For political reasons, Ursus speaks publicly and privately with Zaius on cordial terms... but in the thick of it, during the invasion, when Zaius warns Ursus about the Bomb, Ursus goes his own way, Zaius be damned. After Zaius' one-ups-manship in the Crucified Gorilla Illusion incident, Ursus isn't about to let Zaius outshine him again. Hence, his ordering of the troops the pull down the "god" of the Mutants, etc etc.

I think that Zira's fate -- should her treasonous act become known to Ursus -- would be a military trial, followed by an execution. Capital punishment is not unknown to the Ape society. The phrase "Ape shall never kill Ape" applies only to UNLAWFUL killing. To MURDER. Heresy had once been punished by BEHEADING ("Zira, do you want to get my head chopped off?!"). And Zaius had said, "... if you persist in pointing guns in my direction, you'll HANG, for high treason!"

Treason is punishable by DEATH. Death by hanging . That is Zira's fate, should she be arrested, tried, and convicted of aiding and abetting the escape of dangerous animals by putting the life of a soldier at risk.

You pointed out Zira's refusal to stand at the close of Ursus' speech. Cornelius had to beg her to stand, knowing that the jackbooted thuggish gorilla soldiers were closing in, about to use force of some sort to whip her into line. From the perspective of Ursus, there is an Enemy in the territory adjacent to theirs. That enemy had done something awful to his 12 scouts -- 11 of whom had disappeared, and the 12th having been subjected to "unsimian torture" of some sort. Their society is faced with an impending famine. The future of their civilization is at stake, and it is clear that whoever dwells in the Forbidden Zone they are enemies of Apedom. Who the **** is Zira to make her show of protest to his plan to deal with their enemy as they deserve and to save Ape civilization by opening up new farmlands? "We invade or we starve -- it's as simple as that." Is that damned uppity chimp on the side of the Apes or on the side of the Enemy?

From Ursus' perspective, if he were to later discover that she had tried to assist humans in their escape -- putting a gorilla soldier's life in mortal danger -- then it is clear what he would do. He would have Zira arrested, tried, found guilty and hanged. She was on the side of the Enemy... She became the Enemy, from Ursus' perspective.

In my opinion.

Patrick

 

> this is great news! Just curious though, Hunter...did you not
> include the Sonny and Cher spoof I sent you? No problem....just
> wondering! I will order one when I get back from Vegas!

As I privately emailed Tim a little before he posted this, I
completely forgot the Sonny & Cher spoof (there wasn't room for it
anyway, but still....)

I'll probably be doing a Rarities 3 soon....

Hunter

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> Any chance you have a list of things that you already have, which might be
> used on #3?

Actually, not much right now. In fact, I'm not sure I have anything
besides the Sonny & Cher spoof at the moment. That's not true---I do
have a Donny & Marie Show appearance by Brian Penakis of ApeMania that
hasn't made it to one of the DVDs yet. But that's all, at the moment.

If anyone has anything that's not on Rarities 1 & 2, drop me a line!

Hunter

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In a message dated 2/2/2008 1:59:26 P.M. Central Standard Time, neilmoxham@... writes:

Proteus
brought the upright beast into the garden and chained him to a tree

 

Wasn't that the reincarnation dude that set himself on fire at the Olympic

Games back in 165 AD?

 

<.html

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In a message dated 2/2/2008 4:03:49 P.M. Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

and yield
> the "great secret" that cannot be revealed.

 It's probably living that lie in her own time that makes

her hate deceit so much when they travel to the past.

 

<.html

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In a message dated 2/2/2008 6:52:00 P.M. Central Standard Time, goathunter@... writes:

I'll probably be doing a Rarities 3 soon....

 

How much for the boxed set?

 

<.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , TZer0@... wrote:

>
>
> In a message dated 2/2/2008 1:59:26 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> neilmoxham@... writes:
>
> Proteus
> brought the upright beast into the garden and chained him to a tree
>
>
>
> Wasn't that the reincarnation dude that set himself on fire at the

Olympic

> Games back in 165 AD?
>
>

You've got me there T, Wikipedia says he was a sea god of ancient
Greece who's name means 'the first'. He's also supposed to have been
able to predict the future.

No you cannot order direct from diamond. If you go to there site and try
to order, it will say to go to your local comic dealer and order it from
them.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: David Jackson <Yoda_75@...>
Date: Friday, February 1, 2008 1:49 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Mego re-issues require minimun orders!

> can you order direct from diamond
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Just got word back from my comic guy after I ordered the Megos.
> It
> > when he tried to order the two for me from Diamond distributing,
> he
> > learned that they are only sold to retailers in lots of 8. Since
> my
> > guy is a small operation, he can't order 8 with myself only
> wanting to
> > buy two as he would have to try the sell the other 6 and he knows
> he
> > can't do that. So be forewarned, depending on the market in your
> area,
> > you may not be able to get them as easy as just saying "I want
> them".>
> > This really sucks. Grrrh!
> >
> > Dario
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Dario Sciola <darios@...>
> > Date: Thursday, January 31, 2008 9:21 pm
> > Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks. I've been waiting for this. Got my order in with my
> > > 'comic guy'.
> > > Any idea of when these will actually ship?
> > >
> > > Dario
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: John <DrZaiusDavis@...>
> > > Date: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 5:16 pm
> > > Subject: [PotaDG] Mego re-issues
> > >
> > > > New Comic "Previews" has not 1 but 2 full page ads for the
> new
> > > Mego
> > > > Planet of the Apes re-issue toys. They are really pushing
> them.
> > > > Cornelius & the Soldier Ape are the first 2 availible. Pre
> > > ordered
> > > > mine
> > > > for $18.99. Let's hope they do well & the others come soon.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

.html *** On eBay several years ago, I did see the TV series cards with Spanish text, so there were cards like that...***





In a message dated 2/1/2008 5:29:21 PM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

Hi Mark

No, I haven't seen these.


From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of simianarms
Sent: Saturday, 2 February 2008 5:12 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Collectables/Gum Cards Question


Has anyone here ever seen the apes gum cards in Spanish? TV or Movie.
I remember seeing them when I was a kid (we used to spend a lot of
time south of the border), but have not run across any of then since
then. Has any one here seen or have any? Just curious.







**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

The set is something I remember seeing when I was a kid. We were down
south in TJ (Tijuana) and there was a box of cards there with Spanish
writing. Unfortunately I didn't have any money with me. Just wondering
if anyone had seen them. Oh well! Maybe they will turn up some day.

Mark
Simianarms

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@...> wrote:
>
> Ape Chronicles #39 did a story on some interesting POTA gum cards
which might be the ones you are looking for
> however that set was quite small and only had 6 cards from Spain
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: simianarms
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 1:12 PM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Collectables/Gum Cards Question
>
>
> Has anyone here ever seen the apes gum cards in Spanish? TV or Movie.
> I remember seeing them when I was a kid (we used to spend a lot of
> time south of the border), but have not run across any of then since
> then. Has any one here seen or have any? Just curious.
>
> Mark
> Simianarms
>

Were they the same as the American cards? I remembered the box looking
the same but never actually saw any of the cards.

mark

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:
>
> *** On eBay several years ago, I did see the TV series cards with
Spanish
> text, so there were cards like that...***
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 2/1/2008 5:29:21 PM Central Standard Time,
> sallywhitty@... writes:
>
>
> > Hi Mark
> >
> > No, I haven’t seen these.
> >
> >
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
Behalf Of
> > simianarms
> > Sent: Saturday, 2 February 2008 5:12 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Collectables/Gum Cards Question
> >
> >
> > Has anyone here ever seen the apes gum cards in Spanish? TV or Movie.
> > I remember seeing them when I was a kid (we used to spend a lot of
> > time south of the border), but have not run across any of then since
> > then. Has any one here seen or have any? Just curious.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> <BR><BR>**************<BR>Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time
on AOL Music.<BR>
>
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
> 48)</HTML>
>

Thanks

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> I have one....of Burke and Virdon....I don't seem to
> have a pic of it on my laptop and I am out of town...I
> will scan it when I get home after tuesday...
>
> Tim
> --- simianarms <simianarms@...> wrote:
>
> > Has anyone here ever seen the apes gum cards in
> > Spanish? TV or Movie.
> > I remember seeing them when I was a kid (we used to
> > spend a lot of
> > time south of the border), but have not run across
> > any of then since
> > then. Has any one here seen or have any? Just
> > curious.
> >
> > Mark
> > Simianarms
> >
> >
>
>
>
>

.html In a message dated 2/4/2008 12:48:44 PM Central Standard Time, simianarms@... writes:

The set is something I remember seeing when I was a kid. We were down
south in TJ (Tijuana) and there was a box of cards there with Spanish
writing. Unfortunately I didn't have any money with me. Just wondering
if anyone had seen them. Oh well! Maybe they will turn up some day.

*** As I mentioned in a reply to Whitty's post about the cards, there were indeed TV series cards with Spanish text on them... There were different wrappers for them too, rather than the American version which just had the one with the gorilla... I know there was one with a picture of Urko, one with Zaius, etc. And, the text on the cards was written in Spanish as well... I'd like to get these crads myself actually... ***


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

.html In a message dated 2/4/2008 12:51:39 PM Central Standard Time, simianarms@... writes:

Were they the same as the American cards? I remembered the box looking
the same but never actually saw any of the cards.

*** To answer your question: Yes, they were the same as the American cards, but the text on them was in Spanish... And, they had a couple different wrappers which were pictures from the actual cards, unlike the US version which just had the drawing of the gorilla... ***


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

.html With all the talk of the TOPPS cards, it made me want to upgrade some of the TV series cards I have... If anyone has any extras they'd like to sell, please email me privately and hopefully we could work something out...

Thanks!


**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

Attachments :

On Dec 23, 2007 1:28 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@... > wrote:

Do you do an7y scale sceneries?

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jessica rotich
Sent: Monday, 24 December 2007 4:50 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Latest Mego project, Dr. Zaius. Almost complete.

 

Wow!  What a cool idea!  I'm going to have to look into that...

 

I was thinking that as soon as I had all of the costumes made, I would pose them just like in the movie and then take photos.

 

Jessica.

 

On 12/23/07, Tim apefan < apefan23@...> wrote:

Looks great as usual Jessica! You should do an animated stop motion film !

Tim

juswannaknit < jessicarotich@...> wrote:

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Michael & Sally Whitty"
<sallywhitty@...> wrote:
>
> I really like the glyphs too - you are very clever!
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> Neil Foster
> Sent: Saturday, 15 December 2007 9:02 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Latest Mego project, Dr. Zaius. Almost
complete.
>
>
>
> -- Doctor Z. looks cool with his sunnies on, I'm looking forward
to seeing
> the finished thing!
>
>
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of
> jessica rotich
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 1:22 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Latest Mego project, Dr. Zaius. Almost complete.
>
> The Dr. Zaius outfit for my Mego doll is almost complete. I need
to glue
> down the glyphs and get him a pair of shoes, and then take an
official
> portrait. I'm just so excited at how it's turned out.
>
> .
>
>
> < http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?
s=97359714/grpId=8605785/grpspId=1705021437/msgId
> =46996/stime=1197602526/nc1=5008815/nc2=3858793/nc3=3848621>
>

I have finally taken a portrait of the good Dr. Zaius this
afternoon. The setting sun definitely cast a beautiful glow on the
dupioni silk. There's more photos of him on my blogsite--I just
didn't want to take up space here. But here is a link to one of his
portraits that I have uploaded to the photo albums here:

http://movies.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/photos/view/813c?b=26

 

---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

 

Attachments :

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 4:55 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Collectables/Gum Cards Question

In a message dated 2/4/2008 12:51:39 PM Central Standard Time, simianarms@yahoo. com writes:

Were they the same as the American cards? I remembered the box looking
the same but never actually saw any of the cards.

*** To answer your question: Yes, they were the same as the American cards, but the text on them was in Spanish... And, they had a couple different wrappers which were pictures from the actual cards, unlike the US version which just had the drawing of the gorilla... ***

.

<.html

Attachments :

.html**** Yes sir... That is one of the wrapppers I was talking about... ****




In a message dated 2/4/2008 3:10:32 PM Central Standard Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- Is this one of the wrappers?



Neil






**************
Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)<.html

Attachments :

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Attachments :

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----- Original Message -----

From: Neil Foster

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 3:30 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Planet of the Apes 1 Page Original Artwork

 

http://cgi.ebay. com.au/Planet- of-the-Apes- 1-Page-Original- Artwork-from- the-80s_W0QQitem Z290202653620QQi hZ019QQcategoryZ 972QQssPageNameZ WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem

 

 

Does anyone know which comic/issue this is from?

 

Neil

 

<.html

Looks like ADVENTURE. Maybe BLOOD OF THE APES?

---- Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@...> wrote:

> gosh its been a while - i would guess its the last page from possibly issue #24 or one of the later ones
> it "might" be from one of the mini-series but dont think so
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Neil Foster
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 3:30 PM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Planet of the Apes 1 Page Original Artwork
>
>
>
>
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Planet-of-the-Apes-1-Page-Original-Artwork-from-the-80s_W0QQitemZ290202653620QQihZ019QQcategoryZ972QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
>
> Does anyone know which comic/issue this is from?
>
> Neil
>
>
>

Can't call that one myself without going through all the comics.

But the same guy is selling a "Frito and Jojo" ape 1 page:

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Planet-of-the-Apes-1-Page-Original-Artwork-80s_W0QQitemZ290203154220QQihZ019QQcategoryZ972QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

item: 290203154220

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@...>
Date: Tuesday, February 5, 2008 6:10 pm
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Planet of the Apes 1 Page Original Artwork

> gosh its been a while - i would guess its the last page from
> possibly issue #24 or one of the later ones
> it "might" be from one of the mini-series but dont think so
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Neil Foster
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2008 3:30 PM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Planet of the Apes 1 Page Original Artwork
>
>
>
>
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Planet-of-the-Apes-1-Page-Original-Artwork-
> from-the-
>
80s_W0QQitemZ290202653620QQihZ019QQcategoryZ972QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
>
> Does anyone know which comic/issue this is from?
>
> Neil
>
>
>

What's even worse is that he's IS gonna make a nice profit.

I joined the MEGO museum site to see if I could get in on the apes
cards, but never did get any. (And I'm NOT going to bid on any auctions
like this to get them either.)

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Foster <ntfoster@...>
Date: Tuesday, February 5, 2008 4:20 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] Didn't take long...

> ... for someone to try to make a profit off of these did it?!
>
> Ebay items: 220197259371
> <http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/globalAssets/rtCurve.gif> &
> 220197258788
>
> Neil
>
>

They are almost done and have real leather straps. I have placed the
photos of the tables in my album. I just need to perfect the paint
job, but I had a lot of fun making them. If I can secure a female Mego
figure I will definitely photograph a laboratory scene.

I am currently making a market scene for my Megos and just started a
tent structure.

Jessica.

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