>
> I wonder if this new Blu-ray Collection will have any extra footage for
> BENEATH and ESCAPE, too. Even if they don't add previously deleted
> scenes into those films, the way they're doing with CONQUEST, it would
> still be nice to see scenes included as "extras"... like the first scene
> in the ESCAPE script (the one showing the Ape-onauts inside the ANSA
> ship as they witness the destruction of Earth).
>
> I sure hope those Making-of Featurettes will include that stuff...
> otherwise we'll probably have to wait for the 50th Anniversary edition
> of POTA on whatever new format they'll have invented by then. Fittingly,
> that would be in the year 2018, which is when I place the events of
> BATTLE (i.e. which is 27 years after the events of CONQUEST, as per
> Mandemus' line regarding the fact that Caesar's armory had been his home
> for that long a time).
>
> I don't have a Blu-ray machine, but I'll be picking up this new edition
> anyway. And, what the hey, I'll probably have to go out and buy a
> Blu-ray machine to play 'em on, too. After all, I have POTA movies on
> Betamax... on Laserdisc... on VHS... on DVD... If this were the same
> stuff I already have on DVD, I might pass on it... but, dammit, I gots
> to get me all those extras! I'm betting that a few of those extra 8
> minutes in CONQUEST will be the teaser scene, depicting a failed attempt
> by an abused ape (a chimp in the John Jakes novelization) to escape
> Breck's city after having physically assaulted his own master... a scene
> referenced later on, in Breck's office during their interrogation of
> Armando. Ye gods, I remember reading Jakes' novelization way back in the
> mid-70s... seeing the Alfredo Alcala artwork depicting that scene in the
> MARVEL adaptation... and then being super disappointed when I finally
> bought CONQUEST when it had first been released on videotape, only to
> find the film opening with the daytime Ape Management depiction.
>
> The lost "tale" of that fugitive chimp being gunned down by Breck's
> security forces would've been a far better way to set the tone for this
> dystopian APES sequel, especially as it's a night-scene. I'm similarly
> bummed out that MGM nixed the original opening scene from their
> adaptation of LOGAN'S RUN, showing the Sandman, Francis 7, hunting and
> "terminating" a Runner. The opening scene of the original novel showed
> Logan gunning down a female Runner, also at night. Ever since the
> mid-to-late 1970's I've "connected" CONQUEST and LOGAN'S RUN
> thematically, due to that similar opening scene... and the notion that
> both societies are depicted as dystopian, oppressive "futuristic" worlds
> which end up being overthrown in a violent fashion. LOGAN'S RUN had a
> happier ending, though. The world of CONQUEST shows us the very
> beginnings of the epoch when enslaved Apes "turn the tables" on their
> masters... with the promise of an inevitable Nuclear War on the horizon,
> "... when your cities lie buried under radioactive rubble...!"
>
> Goddammit! We gotta wait 3 friggin' months for this new expanded version
> of CONQUEST??? Oh, well... we've already had to wait over 3 damned
> decades... :-(
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. I wonder if we'll get to see bonus extra scenes from PLANET, too...
> like the "Nova's pregnant" scene, and the Hunt Club with the broken
> cage-wagon scene. And the expanded dialogue Taylor has in the cage right
> before the gorillas remove Nova from it. And the scene where Taylor,
> after escaping from his cage, at one point is in the river, a scene I've
> heard about -- and, I think, seen one still photo of -- but is rarely
> mentioned.
>
> We can only hope...
>
>

> I have to say I really like the new Blu-ray packaging. That PS3 Santa
> brought my Son is looking like a very wise gift indeed!
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 8/1/2008 4:03:07 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > apefan23@... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Here's the packaging...No Liberty! And Apemania faces on the
> discs????
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Well, the packaging is sharper than I expected, so that's a plus
> right
> > there...
> >
> > And yes, they look like APEMANIA faces on the discs to me too... As
> much as I
> > really like the way they restore the original costumes, and their
> repros of
> > the costumes are excellent too, their makeup is lacking... Most of
> the gorillas
> > I've seen aren't bad, but their chimps and orangutans leave a lot
> to be
> > desired... Maybe it's the stuff they make them out of, maybe it's
> their appliance
> > molds but they just don't capture the actual APES look... They're
> close but
> > something just isn't right...
> >
> > I mean this sincerely when I say that maybe Brain at APEMANIA
> should get in
> > touch with Bill Blake... Bill knows how to properly make the
> appliances AND
> > even more importantly he knows how to APPLY it convincingly... I've
> seen the
> > footage of him doing the Caesar speech from CONQUEST and his makeup
> was pretty
> > much right on...
> >
> > (And for those who may want to stir shit up by bringing up the
> past, I am way
> > past any of that business with "THE INTERROGATION"... And even at
> that time,
> > I never denounced Bill's makeup artistry... He should be helping
> those
> > APEMANIA folks get it "right"...)
> <BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Looking for a car that's sporty, fun
> > and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.<BR>
> > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?
> ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )</HTML>
> >
>
>

> In a message dated 8/2/2008 9:43:09 PM Central Daylight Time,
> DrZaiusDavis@... writes:
>
>I'm actually more interested in
> seeing if they restored the original score to the film than I am to see another
> riot officer getting his head bashed...

> In a message dated 8/3/2008 8:14:10 PM Central Daylight Time,
> sallywhitty@... writes:
>
>
> > It's the original unrated version, so YES...I assume it will have the
> >
>
> *** We can only hope... I know that there were some tracks that ended up
> being left off, and I have heard it was because they too were found to be "too
> disturbing"... Crazy shit if that's true...***<BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Looking for a car
> that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.<BR>
> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )</HTML>

--- On Sun, 8/3/08, sallywhitty@... < sallywhitty@...> wrote:

> From: sallywhitty@... <sallywhitty@...>
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] BLU-RAY CONTENTS--it's CONQUEST!
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: "Tim "apefan"" <apefan23@...>
> Date: Sunday, August 3, 2008, 8:24 PM
> Is that a coffee-table book?
>
>
> ---- "Tim \"apefan\""
> <apefan23@...> wrote:
> > Here's the packaging...No Liberty! and Apemania
> faces on the discs????
> >
> >
> > --- On Wed, 7/30/08, Tim "apefan"
> <apefan23@...> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Tim "apefan"
> <apefan23@...>
> > > Subject: [PotaDG] BLU-RAY CONTENTS--it's
> CONQUEST!
> > > To: "POTA"
> <pota@yahoogroups.com>, "POTA DG"
> <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Wednesday, July 30, 2008, 10:43 AM
> > > Planet of the Apes Officially Announced
> > >
> > > Posted July 30, 2008 08:36 AM by Josh Dreuth
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Fox Home Entertainment has announced that they
> will
> > > bring 'Planet Of The Apes: 40 Year Evolution
> Blu-ray
> > > Collection'
> > > to Blu-ray on November 4th. The set, which
> features all
> > > five original
> > > 'Planet of the Apes' films, will feature
> BD-50s
> > > utilizing 2.35:1 1080p
> > > AVC accompanied by a 5.1 DTS-HD Master Audio
> soundtrack.
> > >
> > >
> > > The five films - 'Planet Of The Apes',
> 'Beneath
> > > The Planet Of
> > > The Apes', 'Escape From The Planet Of The
> > > Apes', 'Conquest Of The
> > > Planet Of The Apes', and 'Battle For The
> Planet Of
> > > The Apes' - have all
> > > been specially prepared for this release,
> including a
> > > never-before-seen
> > > in the US unrated version of 'Conquest of the
> Planet of
> > > the Apes'.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Extras for this release will all be presented in
> stunning
> > > high definition. They include:
> > >
> > >
> > > Science of the Apes BONUSVIEW - Scientists,
> anthropologists
> > > and
> > > sociologists discuss the facts and fiction of
> the first
> > > film (BD Exclusive)
> > > "Beyond the Forbidden Zone" Adventure
> Game (BD
> > > Exclusive)
> > > "A Public Service Announcement From
> ANSA" in HD -
> > > A mission
> > > report from the agency regarding their brave
> astronauts
> > > (BD Exclusive)
> > > "Evolution of the Apes"- HD featurette
> tracing
> > > the apes story
> > > from the original novel to the screen (BD
> Exclusive)
> > > "Impact of the Apes" - HD featurette on
> how to
> > > market a
> > > worldwide pop culture phenomenon. The story
> behind the
> > > marketing and
> > > merchandising of one of the first ever film
> franchises and
> > > the
> > > series' lasting influence on pop culture
> through the
> > > years (BD Exclusive)
> > > HD Making-of Featurette for Each Sequel (BD
> Exclusive):
> > > Beneath the Planet of the Apes - "From Alpha
> to Omega:
> > > Building a Sequel"
> > > Escape from the Planet of the Apes - "The
> Secret
> > > Behind Escape"
> > > Conquest of the Planet of the Apes - "Riots
> and
> > > Revolutions: Confronting the Times"
> > > Battle for the Planet of the Apes - "End of
> an Epic:
> > > The Final Battle"
> > >
> > > Each Apes sequel will have an isolated score
> track in 5.1
> > > DTS
> > > Master Audio (BD Exclusive)
> > > Commentary by Composer Jerry Goldsmith
> > > Commentary by Actors Roddy McDowall, Natalie
> Trundy, Kim
> > > Hunter and
> > > Makeup Artist John Chambers
> > > Text Commentary by Eric Greene and Author of
> "Planet
> > > of the Apes as
> > > American Myth"
> > > Behind the Planet of the Apes Documentary -
> Includes all
> > > new
> > > interactivity and timeline
> > > Behind the Planet of the Apes Promo (1988)
> > > Planet of the Apes Makeup Test with Edward G.
> Robinson
> > > (1966)
> > > Roddy McDowall On-set Footage
> > > Planet of the Apes Dailies and Outtakes (No
> Audio)
> > > Planet of the Apes NATO Presentation (1967)
> > > Planet of the Apes Vintage Featurette (1968)
> > > A Look Behind the Planet of the Apes (1972)
> > > Don Taylor Directs Escape from the Planet of the
> Apes
> > > J. Lee Thompson Directs Conquest of the Planet of
> the Apes
> > > Six Original Theatrical Trailers
> > > Original Sketches by Costume Designer Morton
> Haack
> > > Photo Gallery
> > > Planet of the Apes Timeline
> > > Interactive Pressbooks
> > > Vintage Apes Newspaper Galleries
> > > Advertising and Lobby Card Galleries
> > > Behind-the-Scenes Galleries
> >
> >
> >

>
> So is PS3 a Blu-Ray player too John?

> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <sallywhitty@...> wrote:
> >
> > So is PS3 a Blu-Ray player too John?
>
> Chiming in...
>
> When I was researching which blu-ray player to go for I considered the
> PS3. The general verdict was that although it's an extraordinary games
> console when judged purely on its merits as a movie player it is
> pretty mediocre. (One reviewer likened it to using a shoe to bang in a
> nail)
>
> You will certainly see a vast improvement over standard def DVD but
> even low-end dedicated players will give a better picture - and sound.
> (but of course they won't play games).
>
> If you want to play games equally as much as you want to watch movies
> then go for the PS3. If it's movies only get yourself a dedicated
> player for the same price. Many dedicated players will 'upscale' your
> existing DVD movie collection making them look better than you've ever
> seen - The PS3 will not.
>
> Dave
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <sallywhitty@...> wrote:
>
> OK after much research it is VERY difficult to copy Blu-Ray and
that's really why the big movie moguls want us all to switch!
>
> I am looking at transferring it ti an AVI file. Then you can do
anything with it.
>
> Also, many of the moves can be flipped to watch in standard DVD
format. Would be worth a quick question to Fox:
>
> (1) will the movies also be available in STANDARD DVD?
>
> (2) Will you be able to flip them to play the STANDARD DVD?
>
> Also - is Battle going to be the extended or not, I wonder?
>
> Michael
>
>
> ---- Dave B <smugster2000@...> wrote:
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <sallywhitty@> wrote:
> > >
> > > So is PS3 a Blu-Ray player too John?
> >
> > Chiming in...
> >
> > When I was researching which blu-ray player to go for I
considered the
> > PS3. The general verdict was that although it's an extraordinary
games
> > console when judged purely on its merits as a movie player it is
> > pretty mediocre. (One reviewer likened it to using a shoe to bang
in a
> > nail)
> >
> > You will certainly see a vast improvement over standard def DVD
but
> > even low-end dedicated players will give a better picture - and
sound.
> > (but of course they won't play games).
> >
> > If you want to play games equally as much as you want to watch
movies
> > then go for the PS3. If it's movies only get yourself a dedicated
> > player for the same price. Many dedicated players will 'upscale'
your
> > existing DVD movie collection making them look better than you've
ever
> > seen - The PS3 will not.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> >
>

> I'd guess that some bright spark (not necessarily a POTA fan) will
> find a way to convert these movies onto avi files or similar, and
> make them available for download through a torrent site. Especially
> if there's new material on them. The people who contribute to these
> sites seem to be one step ahead of anything that's put in their way.
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <sallywhitty@...> wrote:
> >
> > OK after much research it is VERY difficult to copy Blu-Ray and
> that's really why the big movie moguls want us all to switch!
> >
> > I am looking at transferring it ti an AVI file. Then you can do
> anything with it.
> >
> > Also, many of the moves can be flipped to watch in standard DVD
> format. Would be worth a quick question to Fox:
> >
> > (1) will the movies also be available in STANDARD DVD?
> >
> > (2) Will you be able to flip them to play the STANDARD DVD?
> >
> > Also - is Battle going to be the extended or not, I wonder?
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > ---- Dave B <smugster2000@...> wrote:
> > > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <sallywhitty@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So is PS3 a Blu-Ray player too John?
> > >
> > > Chiming in...
> > >
> > > When I was researching which blu-ray player to go for I
> considered the
> > > PS3. The general verdict was that although it's an extraordinary
> games
> > > console when judged purely on its merits as a movie player it is
> > > pretty mediocre. (One reviewer likened it to using a shoe to bang
> in a
> > > nail)
> > >
> > > You will certainly see a vast improvement over standard def DVD
> but
> > > even low-end dedicated players will give a better picture - and
> sound.
> > > (but of course they won't play games).
> > >
> > > If you want to play games equally as much as you want to watch
> movies
> > > then go for the PS3. If it's movies only get yourself a dedicated
> > > player for the same price. Many dedicated players will 'upscale'
> your
> > > existing DVD movie collection making them look better than you've
> ever
> > > seen - The PS3 will not.
> > >
> > > Dave
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>

> In a message dated 8/4/2008 1:47:50 AM Central Daylight Time,
> sallywhitty@... writes:
>
>
> > Also - is Battle going to be the extended or not, I wonder?
> >
> > Yes, The extended cut of BATTLE will be on the set...<BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Looking
> for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.<BR>
>
> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )</HTML>

----- Original Message -----

From: pota1968

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 4:22 AM

Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [PotaDG] Apes in 3D

What's up gang? Alex here. Long time no speak.
Just heard the news on POTA on Blu-ray. Fantastic news! Especially
since I've developed a pair of glasses that allows you to see HD in 3D.
The way the glasses work is that it allows you to see HDTV much sharper
than HD while giving you complete depth and perception between
charaters in the picture as well as backdrops. It's very cool. Works
great with Planet of the Apes on regular DVD so it's going to work even
better on Blu-ray. Simply because the sharper the picture, the greater
the 3D effect works. Which is why I refer to it as "HD in 3D."

They only cost me pennies to make so once I have a few made I'll ship
them out to you guys for free.

For those of you who don't know or remember me. I'm Alex. I counted
down Tim Burton's POTA 2001, also had an apes site "POTA Collective"
along with a couple of other ape sites.

Cheers!
Alex

>
> I'm not at all sure Patrick but I don't think they can just do the

>
> I think the handsome (and missing!) Jeff K once explained that it's

>
> With the others (Planet, Beneath and Escape), I don't think a

>
> So I think the best we can ask is that the actual missing scenes be

>
> Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <sallywhitty@...> wrote:
>
> Mike - where did you read this?!?!?
>
>
> ---- mlccougar@... wrote:
> > In a message dated 8/4/2008 1:47:50 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > sallywhitty@... writes:
> >
> >
> > > Also - is Battle going to be the extended or not, I wonder?
> > >
> > > Yes, The extended cut of BATTLE will be on the
set...<BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Looking
> > for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read
reviews on AOL Autos.<BR>
> >
> > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?
ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )</HTML>
>

>
> *** I probably didn't make myself as clear as I should've. Let me
> give it another go.
>
> Regarding the additional footage for CONQUEST, it seems we're being
> given a "director's cut" or "uncut" version, perhaps the same

> that was shown to preview audiences -- some of whom freaked -- and
> which was then edited to expunge some of the worst of the Watts

> type footage. I'm hoping that this 'new' version of CONQUEST has
> everything they shot put back into it insofar as the film had been
> scripted and that script had been filmed.
>
> BATTLE, we already have in an "extended" cut, now, and I'm happy

> that... although I still would like to see other scenes that were
> probably filmed yet still haven't been included. Remember the scene
> where MacDonald, 'Teacher' Abe, and the blonde eat an illegal

> dinner just prior to the trip to the Forbidden City? I'd like to

> that scene, too...
>
> As for PLANET, BENEATH and ESCAPE, I'm not holding out any hope

> any "extended cut" versions will be released soon or ever, but I
> would like to see a "deleted scenes" section, where they show ALL

> stuff they filmed for all the 5 movies in snippets that you can
> either play one-at-a-time or "play-all"... just like every other
> decent DVD "extras" feature for movies routinely released to DVD.
>
> I'd also like to see "extended scenes"... like the full
> Ursus "Citizens' Council" speech (it's evident, comparing the scene
> as-it-is with the screenplays, that there was more dialogue

> but much of it ended up being trimmed out). This stuff has to exist
> somewhere, and jeez louise, but I'd give one of my kidneys to see

> of this footage included as "bonus" features, even if it isn't
> rejiggered into an "extended cut" version for each film. Hell, some
> enterprising POTA fan could then make a "rogue cut" version of each
> film, reincorporating that footage where it belongs [although I'm
> sure FOX would probably sic the lawyers on 'em pronto].
>
> This may be an improbable wish-list, but I don't wish for it merely
> as a POTA fan: I want to have access to every frame of these films
> for the sake of my DESTINY OF THE PLANET OF THE APES mega-novel
> project. I want to incorporate as much filmed data as I can, even

> it isn't included as part of any official "cut" of a film. For
> example, if I include ONLY the dialogue that exists on-screen, then
> my Citizen's Council Ursus speech scene will have less dialogue

> the Michael Avallone novelization, which of course was based on one
> of the screenplays prior to the trimmed release-version of BENEATH.
> If, however, the FULL filmed scene could be released as part of
> a "deleted scenes" archive of "extras"... then I would be more than
> happy to include that extra dialogue in my novel(-ization).
>
> A couple decades ago they released "THE COMPLEAT BEATLES"... I want
> my project to be a "COMPLEAT POTA" (with original extras by moi, of
> course).
>
> Patrick
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <skintricks@...> wrote:
>
> That would be spectacular!
>
> Jeff B
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pota1968
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 4:22 AM
> Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] [PotaDG] Apes in 3D
>
>
> What's up gang? Alex here. Long time no speak.
> Just heard the news on POTA on Blu-ray. Fantastic news!
Especially
> since I've developed a pair of glasses that allows you to see HD
in 3D.
> The way the glasses work is that it allows you to see HDTV much
sharper
> than HD while giving you complete depth and perception between
> charaters in the picture as well as backdrops. It's very cool.
Works
> great with Planet of the Apes on regular DVD so it's going to
work even
> better on Blu-ray. Simply because the sharper the picture, the
greater
> the 3D effect works. Which is why I refer to it as "HD in 3D."
>
> They only cost me pennies to make so once I have a few made I'll
ship
> them out to you guys for free.
>
> For those of you who don't know or remember me. I'm Alex. I
counted
> down Tim Burton's POTA 2001, also had an apes site "POTA
Collective"
> along with a couple of other ape sites.
>
> Cheers!
> Alex
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "pota1968" <pota1968@...> wrote:
>
> Here's some more info from DVD Active. Boxset pictures provided.
>
> Link:
> http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/the-planet-of-the-apes.html"
>
> And it seems that someone got a qoute from somewhere about Conquest.
> Quote: "As a special treat for Apes fans, the collection includes
an
> unrated version of Conquest of the Planet of the Apes. Previously
> unreleased in the United States, this version includes eight
minutes of
> unrated footage."
>
> So in terms of Conquest, it isn't the test screening version which
> never reached theaters but rather an unrated version that was never
> released in the United States. Which include 8 extra minutes of
unrated
> footage. If what was quoted is true. I'm hoping for screen test
> version.
>
> You read more on fan reactions at:
> http://www.dvdactive.com/news/releases/the-planet-of-the-apes.html"
>
> Al
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "nlmoxham" <neilmoxham@...> wrote:

Patrick - do you think any of the new material would contradict the established facts? I mean, the original 'Conquest' would have ended on a note of violent retribution (with the death of Brent?), but 'Battle' was built upon the revised ending, with Caesar trying to  build an integrated community. That's the only example I can think of, but there might be others?
_____________________________________________________________

*** You mean "the death of Breck" -- not of Brent -- right?

Did they actually depict (on film) the death of Breck? If the original preview cut of CONQUEST ended with Caesar shouting "... and that day is upon you now!" ... well, Breck was still alive for that. It is in John Jakes' novelization where Breck is depicted being strung up by the wrists, a foot or two off the ground, and whipped with a belt by each of the apes in their turn... yet this was never filmed, I'm pretty sure, since it is during Caesar's final speech that Breck -- in the movie -- is depicted groveling on the ground with a group of gorillas looming over him. Where Jakes depicts Breck being whipped, and shrieking, during Caesar's bellicose speech, the actual film did not depict this.

Even in Jakes' novelization, Breck doesn't necessarily die. He writes:

Cries of animal fury filled the plaza. Governor Breck's twitching body finally went limp. The screeching of the frustrated apes grew louder as they searched for new targets for their unleashed resentment. By twos and threes, they broke away from the circle of light where Breck's body turned slowly. They raced toward the growing crowd of human prisoners in the holding area.

Now, this seems as if Breck dies... but could just as easily be interpreted as meaning that he passed out completely from the pain. The apes who'd been whipping him were "frustrated" because they were deriving pleasure from hearing Breck shriek every time the belt lashed his back. Once he passed out and stopped twitching, the apes torturing him couldn't get their kicks anymore. So... I don't think his death is unequivocally depicted in Jakes' version -- at the most, it is hinted; but, even so, it is open to my interpretation, too.

As far as the tacked-on ending of CONQUEST, there have been times when I wish they never would've added it. So a preview audience freaked out... so what? That original ending -- harsh though it was -- had a hard-hitting feel to it that would've made a more stunning impact, I think.

And yet... I also like that added scene. I like the idea that Lisa -- depicted as the first so-called "primitive" ape to acquire speech -- utters her first word: "No!" If you remember, Cornelius told Hasslein that it would be an ape named Aldo who would be the first ape to "articulate"... voicing his refusal to a human master: "He... said... 'No'." How ironic, then, for the true "savior" of the Apes to have succeeded in turning the tables on Man in this first battle... to be viciously prophetic about the approaching downfall of Man... to have provided MacDonald a preview of how Apes will treat Man in the future...

... and then for Lisa, whom Caesar obviously cares about, to defy his violent plan for Man's subjugation by Apes. Her protest had been hinted at earlier, when Caesar was collecting all those weapons in the warehouse/hide-out: Lisa, in the foreground, clearly is shown with a sad, worried expression. It is one thing to defy human mastery by tossing aside the book she was carrying to her mistress... but using meat-cleavers, restaurant-stolen knives, etc etc, to fight back and revenge themselves against their (at times) cruel masters... her intrinsic pacifistic personality doesn't like the soon-to-be-unleashed violence Caesar had been planning.

Thus, when she says "No!" in response to Caesar's harangue... it is like somebody doused Caesar with a bucket of cold water. Somebody whose opinion he cares about. Somebody whose good graces he wishes to remain in. Perhaps that's what it took to get him to remember that he owes his life to two humans: Armando -- who raised him, taught him that people must love each other or die, and who literally died for his sake -- and MacDonald, who cut the power to the electrocution table (the very table on which the "NO!" conditioning took place) to prevent Kolp's order from being carried out.

If Man, as a species, is "evil" in his view... how does he explain the exceptions to whom he owes his very life? It seems to me that Caesar has an "epiphany" of sorts: he comes to realize that the human race has Good and Evil in it... but that Apes do not have the intrinsic Evil that had plagued human history. Man is a species which needs to be ruled, yes... but with compassion and understanding. To nurture the Good in him, and to repress the Evil. It will take the murder of his own son by an Ape to convince Caesar that the Apes, too, have their share of intrinsic Evil... that they are no better than Man.

I wish I knew what all the "new material" actually is... but until I see it, I don't have much of a clue whether or not it might contradict any established facts. I suspect that there won't be any real problems in this regard, however. Remember when they re-released STAR WARS as a "Special Edition"... putting back into it certain scenes that had been scripted and filmed, yet trimmed from the original release? I'm thinking, in specific, of the scene where Han Solo meets Jabba the Hutt at the docking area where the Millennium Falcon awaits. Jabba had originally been portrayed by a burly dude who was just as human as Han Solo. They had to use CGI to create a Jabba that resembled the character we saw in RETURN OF THE JEDI and "matte" it over the original footage, and also re-doing the dialogue Jabba speaks and subtitling the dialogue originally spoken by the actor who originally played Jabba in that scene. In order to make sense of it, they had to animate Jabba reacting to Han stepping on his slug-tail (since Han had walked around the human-Jabba in the filmed footage). At the very end of this scene, Han refers to Jabba as "a wonderful human being"... which doesn't make any fucking sense! If Lucas had always intended Jabba to be that slug-thing, then he wouldn't have written that dialogue for STAR WARS and then filmed it. It's clear that Lucas changed his initial conception of Jabba as a human being when they were prepping RETURN OF THE JEDI, and opted to re-make him as a giant slug -- which was okay as long as that edited footage from STAR WARS was still on the cutting room floor.

But when they made the "Special Edition" they added that footage back into it... and since they couldn't very well portray Jabba as a human -- since audiences already "knew" that Jabba was a big slug -- they CGI'd him over the human actor. But that line of dialogue still doesn't make any goddamned sense, and it never will. That is an example of "new material" contradicting "established facts"... but I don't see such problems with any filmed-from-script scenes from the POTA films.

But, even if there are some supposed contradictions on the horizon... I'm not worried. Not one bit! After all, I'm the goddamned King of Unflubbers! If I can unflub the 3978-versus-3955 Earth-Time dates, then I can unflub whatever the hell else might show up as "extras" on this new Blu-Ray set. ;-)

Patrick

 

http://notesfromthejunkyard.blogspot.com/2008/08/complete-planet-of-apes-sunday-observer.html/blockquote>

This thing is pretty cool... I'd like if someone decided to print up some repros of it...


**************
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )<.html

>
> *** You mean "the death of Breck" -- not of Brent -- right?

>Posted by: "Terry Hoknes" hoknescards@... hoknescomics
>I have recently set up a Chat Forum here in the UK regarding Planet
>of the Apes, our hope is to make the forum a fun place for like
>minded people who are fans of the Movie to chat and discuss about
>all things POTA, we are very new and a member base is very low but
>building slowly.

----- Original Message -----

From: Alex Ruiz

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 10:19 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Apes Convention?

I honestly don't know what's the issue with Apemania. As you know I haven't been around for a while.

But what I will tell you is that I have the same amount of respect for all ape fans. Including Brian and Apemania.
And if I'm ever in California, I'll be sure to look up Brian, visit his place and call him, "Friend."

 

Cheers.

 

----- Original Message ----
From: "mlccougar@aol. com" <mlccougar@aol. com>
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 12:49:00 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Apes Convention?

FOX may be your new best friend, but what about APEMANIA? They're the group that was in question...

As I've said before, I am all for their restorations of the original outfits, and their repro outfits are cool too... But as far as their part in the new DVDs, I'm leary of that... I'm thinking they are/were FOX's patsy because they have "the name" so FOX chose them to do the "extras", when in reality, TZer0 could have probably whipped out a better script (for the "new" extras) and get some of his pals to act it out...





In a message dated 8/14/2008 11:07:52 PM Central Daylight Time, pota1968@yahoo. com writes:

With FOX releasing Planet of the Apes on Blu-ray... FOX is my new best friend.
I'm even think about changing my name to FOX.  "Brian Fox." :)

As far as I'm concerned, Christmas Day is on November 4th. And should be a national holiday from here on out. :)

Cheers.


----- Original Message ----
From: "mlccougar@aol. com" <mlccougar@aol. com>
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:43:25 PM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Apes Convention?

In a message dated 8/14/2008 6:15:13 PM Central Daylight Time, pota1968@yahoo. com writes:

Is Apemania planning on doing anything special?

*** Why should they do anything of their own accord when the almighty FOX paid them to do things they wanted them to do (for the Blu-ray DVDs)... Why do anything on your own when the corporation is willing to have you sell a little bit of your soul... You get your name in the credits, a nice lil paycheck from Uncle Fox, and the chance to have Lisa Simpson buy your soul back for you... ***










************ **
Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos. aol.com/cars- Volkswagen- Jetta-2009/ expert-review? ncid=aolaut00030 000000007 )

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Mark Rice <mar1mar5@...> wrote:
>
> Hiya
> Thank you so much for approving my membership. I have been an Apes fan since I was seven years old. Looking back on all this material brings a tear to my eye when I think that at the age of 13 I decided I was too old for all this and sold everything I had. How silly I was, but since being able to get hold of all the Marvel UK issues in pdf format from the goatley site I've been re-aquiring a lot of it.
>  
> Thank you again and hope to see you on the message boards soon.
>  
> Mark
>

Hi Mark, Nice to see you here,

Hope you have fun... feel free to join in at any time.

Best, Graham.

--- On Fri, 8/15/08, Mark Rice <mar1mar5@...> wrote:

> From: Mark Rice <mar1mar5@...>
> Subject: [PotaDG] introductory
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, August 15, 2008, 7:41 AM
> Hiya
> Thank you so much for approving my membership. I have been
> an Apes fan since I was seven years old. Looking back on all
> this material brings a tear to my eye when I think that at
> the age of 13 I decided I was too old for all this and sold
> everything I had. How silly I was, but since being able to
> get hold of all the Marvel UK issues in pdf format from the
> goatley site I've been re-aquiring a lot of it.
>
> Thank you again and hope to see you on the message boards
> soon.
>
> Mark

>
> Brian has always been friendly and more than helpful. Especially in

> Apemania has kept the flag flying for many years when POTA was not

>
> JBK

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "pota1968" <pota1968@...> wrote:
>
> I couldn't agree more with you. And if you ask me, if FOX does
release
> POTA DVDs, why not have it presented by fans such as Apemania?
Isn't
> that what POTADG, Ape Chronicles, Jeff, Terry, Eric, Bill and so
many
> others are all about? It's the fans that kept Planet of the Apes
alive
> over the years. So let it be fans that present these great releases
of
> POTA on DVD.
>
> Also on behalf of FOX, since day one when FOX first released POTA
on
> DVD, to this day, I have never seen such an incredible collection
of
> rare footage on any moive other than Planet of the Apes. And yet
their
> going to give us even more on Blu-ray. If that's considered a poor
job,
> than "Poor" must be the new "Awesome" these days. FOX in my opinion
has
> done an amazing job. The only thing that comes close in my mind
would
> be Star Wars and Termintator 2 (2 disc set) The Ultimate Edition.
And
> not even those movies surpass what FOX has released on Planet of
the
> Apes.
>
> Cheers.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "John B Kirtley" <johnbkirtley@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Brian has always been friendly and more than helpful. Especially
in
> getting things to UK fast and giving advice on make-up and all
> things "Ape".
> > Apemania has kept the flag flying for many years when POTA was
not
> recognized as the ground breaking set of films it is now classed as.
> >
> > JBK
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Alex Ruiz <pota1968@...> wrote:
>
> With FOX releasing Planet of the Apes on Blu-ray... FOX is my new
best friend.
> I'm even think about changing my name to FOX. "Brian Fox." :)
> As far as I'm concerned, Christmas Day is on November 4th. And
should be a national holiday from here on out. :)
> Cheers.
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "mlccougar@..." <mlccougar@...>
> To: PotaDG@...
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:43:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Apes Convention?
>
>
> In a message dated 8/14/2008 6:15:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
pota1968@yahoo. com writes:
>
>
>
>
> *** Why should they do anything of their own accord when the
almighty FOX paid them to do things they wanted them to do (for the
Blu-ray DVDs)... Why do anything on your own when the corporation is
willing to have you sell a little bit of your soul... You get your
name in the credits, a nice lil paycheck from Uncle Fox, and the
chance to have Lisa Simpson buy your soul back for you... ***
>
>
> ************ **
> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read
reviews on AOL Autos.
> (http://autos. aol.com/cars- Volkswagen- Jetta-2009/ expert-review?
ncid=aolaut00030 000000007 )
> Is Apemania planning on doing anything special?
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff" <skintricks@...> wrote:
>
> Ditto, except I do live in CA. Also, I think if someone offered
any 1 of us the same opportunity, we'd do it for our love and respect
of POTA and the money!
>
> Jeff B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alex Ruiz
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 10:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Apes Convention?
>
>
>
> I honestly don't know what's the issue with Apemania. As you know
I haven't been around for a while.
> But what I will tell you is that I have the same amount of
respect for all ape fans. Including Brian and Apemania.
> And if I'm ever in California, I'll be sure to look up Brian,
visit his place and call him, "Friend."
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "mlccougar@..." <mlccougar@...>
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 12:49:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Apes Convention?
>
>
> FOX may be your new best friend, but what about APEMANIA? They're
the group that was in question...
>
> As I've said before, I am all for their restorations of the
original outfits, and their repro outfits are cool too... But as far
as their part in the new DVDs, I'm leary of that... I'm thinking they
are/were FOX's patsy because they have "the name" so FOX chose them
to do the "extras", when in reality, TZer0 could have probably
whipped out a better script (for the "new" extras) and get some of
his pals to act it out...
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/14/2008 11:07:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
pota1968@yahoo. com writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> With FOX releasing Planet of the Apes on Blu-ray... FOX is my
new best friend.
> I'm even think about changing my name to FOX. "Brian Fox." :)
>
> As far as I'm concerned, Christmas Day is on November 4th. And
should be a national holiday from here on out. :)
>
> Cheers.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "mlccougar@aol. com" <mlccougar@aol. com>
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:43:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Apes Convention?
>
> In a message dated 8/14/2008 6:15:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
pota1968@yahoo. com writes:
>
>
>
> Is Apemania planning on doing anything special?
>
>
>
>
> *** Why should they do anything of their own accord when the
almighty FOX paid them to do things they wanted them to do (for the
Blu-ray DVDs)... Why do anything on your own when the corporation is
willing to have you sell a little bit of your soul... You get your
name in the credits, a nice lil paycheck from Uncle Fox, and the
chance to have Lisa Simpson buy your soul back for you... ***
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************ **
> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
> (http://autos. aol.com/cars- Volkswagen- Jetta-2009/ expert-
review? ncid=aolaut00030 000000007 )
>

----- Original Message -----

From: David Jackson

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 11:03 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Apes Convention?

I live in la
where are they located

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com, "Jeff" <skintricks@ ...> wrote:
>
> Ditto, except I do live in CA. Also, I think if someone offered
any 1 of us the same opportunity, we'd do it for our love and respect
of POTA and the money!
>
> Jeff B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Alex Ruiz
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 10:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Apes Convention?
>
>
>
> I honestly don't know what's the issue with Apemania. As you know
I haven't been around for a while.
> But what I will tell you is that I have the same amount of
respect for all ape fans. Including Brian and Apemania.
> And if I'm ever in California, I'll be sure to look up Brian,
visit his place and call him, "Friend."
>
> Cheers.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "mlccougar@. .." <mlccougar@. ..>
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 12:49:00 AM
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Apes Convention?
>
>
> FOX may be your new best friend, but what about APEMANIA? They're
the group that was in question...
>
> As I've said before, I am all for their restorations of the
original outfits, and their repro outfits are cool too... But as far
as their part in the new DVDs, I'm leary of that... I'm thinking they
are/were FOX's patsy because they have "the name" so FOX chose them
to do the "extras", when in reality, TZer0 could have probably
whipped out a better script (for the "new" extras) and get some of
his pals to act it out...
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/14/2008 11:07:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
pota1968@yahoo. com writes:
>
>
>
>
>
> With FOX releasing Planet of the Apes on Blu-ray... FOX is my
new best friend.
> I'm even think about changing my name to FOX. "Brian Fox." :)
>
> As far as I'm concerned, Christmas Day is on November 4th. And
should be a national holiday from here on out. :)
>
> Cheers.
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: "mlccougar@aol. com" <mlccougar@aol. com>
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, August 14, 2008 11:43:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Apes Convention?
>
> In a message dated 8/14/2008 6:15:13 PM Central Daylight Time,
pota1968@yahoo. com writes:
>
>
>
> Is Apemania planning on doing anything special?
>
>
>
>
> *** Why should they do anything of their own accord when the
almighty FOX paid them to do things they wanted them to do (for the
Blu-ray DVDs)... Why do anything on your own when the corporation is
willing to have you sell a little bit of your soul... You get your
name in the credits, a nice lil paycheck from Uncle Fox, and the
chance to have Lisa Simpson buy your soul back for you... ***
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ************ **
> Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
> (http://autos. aol.com/cars- Volkswagen- Jetta-2009/ expert-
review? ncid=aolaut00030 000000007 )
>

I've been working on further backstory elements for the CONQUEST portion of my POTA epic. Since the story deals with Slavery, let me quote the actual text of the U.S. Constitution's AMENDMENT XIII:

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

It's important to realize the distinction eluded to with the use of the term "their jurisdiction" in Section 1. The actual amendment does not wholly outlaw slavery or involuntary servitude. Indeed, a "duly convicted" criminal can be punished with an enforced status as a Slave, "as a punishment for crime." When the words "United States" are used, they do not (necessarily) refer to the entire country (i.e. including the Federal Government of the U.S.A.)... and Section 1 above refers to "their jurisdiction" -- i.e. the jurisdiction of the States-which-are-United.

The upshot of this is that Slavery is not allowed to exist within any of the 50 states comprising the United States of America [except as a punishment for a convicted criminal]... but Slavery is not necessarily banned in Federal territories.

Article I, Section 8 says that

The Congress shall have Power... [Clause 17] To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards and other needful Buildings ;--And [Clause 18] To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

In other words, the States have jurisdiction within their own territories, except such jurisdiction defers to the Federal Government over such "Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards and other needful Buildings" which are not State property anymore, though they may be inside the borders of a particular State. Just as the Federal Territory known as the District of Columbia doesn't belong to either Maryland or Virginia, so too do certain sites occupying various portions of various States belong to the Federal Government of the U.S.A. [such as Military Bases, like the "Marine Corps AIR STATION, EL PALOMAR, CALIF."... the one in ESCAPE where the Ape-onauts were taken before their transfer to the L.A. Zoo], being a kind of "Federal embassy" autonomous though inside the boundaries of a particular State's territory.

In my CONQUEST scenario, the "Cities" that Breck refers to are not cities which are part of the States, subject to State jurisdiction. Rather, one of the changes that had taken place after ESCAPE was that the Executive branch of the Federal Government seized power after their election in 1976 (when "President Windom" lost his bid for re-election), declaring Martial Law and suspending elections in 1980... 1984... etc. It became a jurisdictional war between State authority and Federal authority, with certain like-minded States siding with the Police State mentality of those who've seized control of the Federal Government... and certain other ("liberal") States opposing this totalitarian turn of events.

In my scenario, Breck's "City" was once the territory encompassing the towns of Cambria and San Simeon, about halfway between San Francisco and Los Angeles in San Luis Obispo County. The Federal Government "purchased" this chunk of land from the State of California through a kind of blackmail, claiming that the territory comprised a "needful Building" and "dock-Yards" for the sake of National Security... and Federal highway funds (etc) would be withheld from California unless they ceded jurisdiction over that land.

Thus, the city Breck would become the "Governor" over is created as a Federal territory, over which only the Federal Government would exercise jurisdiction.

That's why when Armando brings Caesar into that city, he is entering Federal jurisdiction... requiring that pit-stop at a Customs port (the helipad, where his papers are scrutinized by Border Agents).

Slavery is outlawed [excepting criminal punishment, etc.] in the jurisdiction of the States... but not in the Federal Territories , as far as the Constitution is concerned. Thus, it isn't unconstitutional for Apes to be made Slaves in those territories. You'll note that the word "party" in the XIIIth Amendment does not explicitly refer to Humans, though it's evident that only Humans were ever meant by the writers of that Amendment.

One could argue, though, that any "person" -- even a Talking Ape, if such an Ape could be defined in the Law as a "person" due to his or her command of vocal language -- could be construed in a legal sense to be eligible for constitutional protections against Slavery... but only where the States have jurisdiction.

In my Timeline, BATTLE takes place in 2018, which is 27 years after the events of CONQUEST (due to Mandemus' line of dialogue). Mendez tells Kolp that there has been "twelve years of peace" up till then, meaning that in 2006 some non-peaceful event transpired -- the Nuclear War, in my interpretation.

So, between the events of CONQUEST in 1991 and the Nuke War in 2006, there are 15 years of... what? Where did Caesar and his "people" (the freed Ape slaves) go, and how could they have survived as an intact community?

My answer is: Caesar learned, during his time as Breck's slave, that if he could manage to get the enslaved Apes out of Federal jurisdiction , an Anti-Federalist sympathizer in the California state government could provide immunity for the escaped slaves. It's all a matter of jurisdiction, and the willingness of a gutsy state politician (i.e. the Governor of the State of California) to exercise jurisdictional sovereignty over State Territory, in defiance of the Governor of a Federal "City," would make all the difference.

Perhaps the ape who had been killed the night before the arrival of Armando and Caesar also knew about this Federal-versus-State jurisdiction matter... and tried to escape the city so that he could find safety in State territory, where the XIIIth Amendment applies.

In my scenario, this Federal-versus-State jurisdictional "war" is a big deal. There are those in the State governments who believe that the Federalists will never give up power and will never "un-suspend" elections, keeping the fear for "national security" so hot in the minds of the Right Wing fringe that their political base keeps them in power. One of the reasons this Left Wing Anti-Federalist side of the battle is cynical regarding the Federalists who've seized power over the national government is due to the fact that these Federal City "governors" have violated Article I, Section 9, Clause 8 of the U.S. Constitution:

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States : and no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatsoever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

The auctioneer refers to "his Excellency, Governor Breck" -- which is the very kind of "Title of Nobility" that the Framers of the Constitution didn't want elected representatives -- or any other government officer -- to have. Who granted to Governor Breck the Title of Nobility, "his Excellency"? Doesn't that smack of aristocratic, monarchic despotism? Like "your Majesty" and [to quote Han Solo] "your Worshipfulness"...?

Breck is the "governor" -- the "Lord" if you will -- of a Federal "city" exercising Federal jurisdiction, even when the manner of that governance is repugnant to the principles set forth in the Constitution governing the States. The "Slavery Loophole" is found which enables pro-Slavery advocates to re-establish it constitutionally , in the non-State territories subject to Federal jurisdiction.

But if Caesar can manage to get those freed slave-Apes out of that jurisdiction... if he can manage to contact somebody high up in the government of the State of California ("the Provinces") who is sympathetic to the plight of the Slave -- be that slave a Human or an Ape -- then perhaps the entire population of Apes who flee from Breck's jurisdiction can be granted asylum, under State jurisdiction. I'm concocting a scene where Caesar -- alone in Breck's office or residence -- makes a phone call to such a bigwig in the government of the State of California (perhaps somebody who had been in the Press, vocally condemning the Ape Slavery in Federal territories located inside the boundaries of a State). Of course, the person whom Caesar talks to doesn't know that he's a talking Ape -- merely an outraged person who sees the barbarity at first-hand, and wants to find a way to smuggle some mistreated slaves out of Federal jurisdiction...

By the way, it was by noticing that auctioneer's line, "his Excellency, Governor Breck," that I remembered that bit in the Constitution which forbids Titles of Nobility. That jump-started me to thinking about the effects that such contempt for the Constitution has, when politicians view themselves as "masters" and aristocratic "lords" over the people they're supposed to serve. If the so-called "governors" of Federal territory "cities" deem themselves worthy of the high-falutin' Titles craved by despots the world over, how contemptible do they find the very citizens over whom they exert power, within their jurisdictions?

Remember Aboro in "THE TYRANT"? He, too, seeks a higher office with its own jurisdiction, and uses it to abuse power in order to get rich, his constituents be damned.

For the sake of those who tire of the length of my messages to this board, I'll cut it short at that for now.

Patrick

Posted by: "patrickmichaeltilton" patrickmichaeltilton@... patrickmichaeltilton
I've been working on further backstory elements for the CONQUEST portion
of my POTA epic. Since the story deals with Slavery, let me quote the
actual text of the U.S. Constitution's AMENDMENT XIII:

[SNIP]

Sorry, Patrick--much as I've always respected your ability to look deeply into the Planet of the Apes universe, I just don't buy this one.  The apes had NO rights in that universe before Caesar freed them--that much is very obvious from Conquest, and there's just no way to believably imply that humans saw anti-slavery laws as in any way relating to the apes.  Humans did not see them as people--they saw them as animals, tools, nothing more.  Anti-slavery laws would be no more relevant to the apes than they would be to any other animals.

In my Timeline, BATTLE takes place in 2018, which is 27 years after the
events of CONQUEST (due to Mandemus' line of dialogue). Mendez tells
Kolp that there has been "twelve years of peace" up till then, meaning
that in 2006 some non-peaceful event transpired -- the Nuclear War, in
my interpretation.

Do you count Marvel in your view of the universe?  If so, you might need to revise those figures, as Mandemus became Caesar's armorer in 1993, moving BATTLE to 2020 and the non-peaceful event to 2008.

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Foster <ntfoster@...>
Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008 4:10 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] Happy Birthday Mr. Whitty!

>
> All the best mate, have a great Birthday!
>
> Neil
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: mlccougar@...
Date: Sunday, August 24, 2008 10:00 pm
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Happy Birthday Mr. Whitty!

>
> In a message dated 8/24/08 8:29:33 PM Central Daylight Time,
> sallywhitty@... writes:
>
> Thanks Dario – we'll start saving our pennies!
>
>
> Start saving them indeed... It sounds like it could be something
> cool, and
> being that APES seemed to have been pretty popular down there,
> maybe there will
> actually be a bit more APES-wise than what Dario encountered (or
> not
> encountered) at that con he went to...
>
>
>
>
>
> **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find
> your travel
> deal here.
> (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
>
> All the best mate, have a great Birthday!
>
> Neil
>

It's your birthday Michael !! (or was..) (ahh... I knew it was soon, I always seem to be a day late and a Dollar short :) )

Hope you had a good one.

Belated greetings.

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/birthday.jpg

Best wishes, Graham.

>
>
> My answer is: Caesar learned, during his time as Breck's slave, that

> he could manage to get the enslaved Apes out of Federal jurisdiction,

> Anti-Federalist sympathizer in the California state government could
> provide immunity for the escaped slaves. It's all a matter of
> jurisdiction, and the willingness of a gutsy state politician (i.e.

> Governor of the State of California) to exercise jurisdictional
> sovereignty over State Territory, in defiance of the Governor of a
> Federal "City," would make all the difference.