On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 7:45 PM, <mlccougar@...> wrote:

*** The eyes did turn out nicely BTW. ***

In a message dated 3/13/09 7:51:49 PM Central Standard Time, jessicarotich@... writes:

Her pupils are amazing.

---

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty < sallywhitty@...> wrote:

I like it!

Interesting APES groups on FLICKR too!

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jessica rotich
Sent: Saturday, 14 March 2009 8:28 AM

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com; POTA

Subject: [PotaDG] Another photo of me on Flickr.

Thought you guys would get a kick out of this black and white photo.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/laurenwiestphotography/3343502586/

Jess.

----- Original Message -----

From: jessica rotich

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ; POTA

Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:09 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Another photo of me on Flickr.

I found myself on YouTube!  Too effing funny!!

 

http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=VNf_fPLZAYU

 

Check it out.  What do you guys think?

 

Jess.

On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@ bigpond.com> wrote:

I like it!

Interesting APES groups on FLICKR too!

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of jessica rotich
Sent: Saturday, 14 March 2009 8:28 AM

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com; POTA

Subject: [PotaDG] Another photo of me on Flickr.

Thought you guys would get a kick out of this black and white photo.

http://www.flickr. com/photos/ laurenwiestphoto graphy/334350258 6/

Jess.

On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 8:42 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty < sallywhitty@...> wrote:

J

Got URSUS for $25US!!!

I just keep 'em in the box (I don't play with my dollies!).

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jessica rotich
Sent: Saturday, 14 March 2009 1:33 PM

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Sideshows CHECK LIST!

$18 is a GREAT price! You won't see that in the states...although I have seen Cornelius and Zira for $19. Stock up on gorillas so you can have a garrison.

On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 8:27 PM, <mlccougar@...> wrote:

*** That one is the "regular" Taylor figure... He's easy to find... The bearded one is the hard to find one. ***

In a message dated 3/13/09 9:21:21 PM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

What's this one?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370171736489&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_RCRX_Pr4_PcY_BID_IT&refitem=370169287652&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&usedrule1=CrossSell_LogicX&refwidgettype=cross_promot_widget&_trksid=p284.m183&_trkparms=algo%3DCRX%26its%3DS%252BI%26itu%3DUCI%252BSI%26otn%3D4

---

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 4:53 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] UK Blu Ray

I like this cover for the BR of PLANET!

I don’t think that’s an APEMANIA ape either!

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Sunday, 15 March 2009 9:42 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] eBay "rarity"!

Is this the one on Hunter’s site?

Is it a bit overpriced?! ?!!

I thought it was just the back page of a magazine – was I wrong?

http://cgi.ebay. co.uk/RARE- PLANET-OF- THE-APES- PAPER-CUTOUT- MASK-OF-URKO- C1974_W0QQitemZ2 50377808173QQcmd ZViewItemQQptZUK _DVD_Film_ TV_Film_Memorabi lia_LE?hash= item250377808173&_trksid=p3286. c0.m14&_trkparms=66% 3A2%7C65% 3A3%7C39% 3A1%7C240% 3A1318

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
> group.
>
> File : /The Truth/00 prologue.gif
> Uploaded by : munkeyman63au <ntfoster@...>
> Description :
>
> You can access this file at the URL:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/The%20Truth/00%20prologue.gif
>
> To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
> http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmliles
>
> Regards,
>
> munkeyman63au <ntfoster@...>
>

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 4:46 AM, Michael & Sally Whitty < sallywhitty@...> wrote:

http://cgi.ebay.com/PLANET-OF-THE-APES-MEGO-CORNELIUS-STORE-PROMO-COSTUME_W0QQitemZ320349710396QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item320349710396&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A3%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Tim apefan <apefan23@... > wrote:

This is owned by someone on one of these groups....it was sent to him as a child...

---

From: jessica rotich <jessicarotich@...>
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 1:37:31 PM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WOW diddly OWSERS!

I hope this sells to a real good home where it will be cherished and taken care of.

Jess.

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 4:46 AM, Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@ bigpond.com> wrote:

http://cgi.ebay. com/PLANET- OF-THE-APES- MEGO-CORNELIUS- STORE-PROMO- COSTUME_W0QQitem Z320349710396QQc mdZViewItemQQptZ LH_DefaultDomain _0?hash=item3203 49710396&_trksid=p3286. c0.m14&_trkparms=66% 3A2%7C65% 3A3%7C39% 3A1%7C240% 3A1318

>
> WHAT?!?!?!
>
>
>
> So (although I doubt the accuracy of this claim) this is a reason NOT to tackle or face another obscenely high reason for death?
>
> COME ON PATRICK!
>
>
>
> And you don't think people ARE trying to do something about obesity-related food consumption? Even McDonalds had to do something about this after that documentary came out and they now offer SALADS for fuck's sake!
>
>
>
> Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael & Sally Whitty" <sallywhitty@...> wrote:

And you DO live in a democracy right? Where cockheads like George Bush control everything because they have all the money. Wake up you idiot.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, TZer0@... wrote:

Well, then maybe I reading more into it than is there. Apologies to Mr. Greene.  ; )  I don't want to go off on a rant like Rory just to make it seem tongue-in-cheek. I really think the main theme in the POTA subtext is one of stifling the opposition. The Trial Scene was base on the HUAC Witch Hunts. 
Not so sure they were but I digress. I'm not afraid to be wrong. I've been wrong many times. Everyone is. I won't resort to name calling. Except in Patrick's case, because he's just nutty. ; )

***Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Thank God we have a Nut like him in the group. Apologies to the Atheists in the group.

***As an Agnostic-bordering-on-Atheism, I'm not so sure that "God" has anything to do with anything. Certainly, the BELIEF in a "god" is a force to be reckoned with, though... I appreciate the thought, however.

It's a group for POTA fans. I dare say no one has spent more time thinking about it than he has. Maybe over thought it a bit, but that's beside the point.

*** A back-handed compliment, but one I probably deserve!

Again, this unmentionable issue has relevance to any adult discussion of POTA. Other wise you get posts like, "Guns are bad, mmmkay."  "But ain't Gorillys with guns Kool!"  : P

*** I think that's spelled "kewl"... "Kool" is a brand of menthol cigarettes, just like them there "Zira"-brand ciggies, right T?

Patrick

____________________________________________________________________

 

>
> *** Hoo boy...
>
> If this gets me kicked outta the DG, then so be it. I'm just about to the point of exiting-stage-left anyway.
>
> First off: Neil, to take a PORTION of one sentence I wrote regarding the conflict in Ireland OUT OF CONTEXT so as to make it SEEM as if I actually DO approve of certain vicious acts of violence committed by the IRA... that's just fucking bullshit. Let me draw a POTA comparison, to make it "on-topic".
>
> In "THE TYRANT" we have two human farmers who are being oppressed by the "tyrant" Aboro, Janor and Mikal. The gorillas have GUNS and the peasant humans DON'T. The humans attempt to resist -- Mikal taking part in an act of retribution with Virdon & Burke against the grain-stealing gorillas... and he winds up getting killed.
>
> Janor vows to kill Aboro if the Fugitives don't get justice for his murdered brother.
>
> As a result of the actions of the Fugitives, lo and behold they actually DO get justice for Mikal -- so that Janor can go on living his life without resorting to killing somebody [Aboro].
>
> But what would've happened if those Fugitives hadn't been around? The grain would've been stolen. Mikal would've gone off and done something "foolish" -- like stick up for his rights. The gorillas would've killed him, just the same. And then Janor would've sought revenge for his brother's death.
>
> AND HE WOULD'VE BEEN JUSTIFIED. If Janor, in such circumstances, had ended the lives of Aboro and his thugs, it would've been JUSTICE. Oppressed peoples have a RIGHT to defend themselves against tyranny, even if that includes waging war, in DEFENSE of self.
>
> Every Veterans Day we (in America) honor those still-living soldiers who have fought -- and KILLED -- the enemies of our nation. Hell, we even honor them if the "enemy" nations hadn't even attacked us -- like Vietnam and Iraq! The politicians who got us into those "police actions" deserve opprobrium, but not the soldiers who couldn't pick-and-choose which conflict to fight in -- unless they were so off-put by it that they became a "conscientious objector".
>
> Every Memorial Day we honor those soldiers who lost their lives -- and, in certain instances, GAVE their lives -- while FIGHTING and KILLING the Enemy.
>
> Mike, YOU point out that "The IRA became extremists and killed innocent people." True. They BECAME extremists. I don't approve of such extremism, when it devolves into killing innocent people.
>
> That is to say, I don't GENERALLY approve of it. But let us remember that the Allies won WORLD WAR TWO because in addition to fire-bombing Tokyo (etc) we dropped nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It had become a war of attrition, where CIVILIAN TARGETS were purposely bombed, in order to FORCE the Japanese to an unconditional surrender -- because they WEREN'T going to surrender, due to their fanatical devotion to an Emperor they believed to be a GOD.
>
> Am I happy that Japanese civilians were killed by Allied bombing? OF COURSE NOT! Nor am I happy with how the Japanese treated prisoners of war -- go watch a documentary about the Bataan Death March to see what I'm talking about. Chuck Heston had a thing or two to say about Truman's decision to drop the Bomb -- Chuck might very well have died in a full-on invasion of Japan, since they estimated that the death toll of both Allies and Japanese would've been far far higher in an invasion, rather than with the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. A few tens of thousands were killed by our use of nukes... as weighed against a death-toll in the MILLIONS that would otherwise have happened in an invasion.
>
> Yet there are those who say that dropping the Bomb was a "war crime". In my opinion, it was the lesser of two evils. And it would've been MORE evil to do nothing and allow Japan to go on committing their atrocities, pursuing their goal of conquering neighbouring nations (leading to incidents like the Rape of Nanking).
>
> As for Neil's relatives who've served in Northern Ireland, well, I'm sure they have opinions regarding UK policy and the enforcement of it by the military. I have just this to ask: WHOSE COUNTRY IS IT? Historically -- and by that I mean going back THOUSANDS of years -- Ireland "belongs" to the Irish. The English should never have fucked around trying to conquer them. Every people living their lives, minding their own business, who then get attacked & invaded and are put into subjection have a very real, very HUMAN sense of being WRONGED. And it is natural to resent it. What the English began to do to Ireland, many hundreds of years ago, was morally equivalent to RAPE and CHILD ABUSE.
>
> The same could be said about England's treatment of Scotland, by the way. Was William Wallace a "terrorist" for fighting back against the English and against those Scots who collaborated with them? I'm sure the English thought of Wallace as a "terrorist" -- How DARE he fight back!
>
> Come to think of it, the American Revolution was perceived by some in England as a "terrorist" movement. Back then, professional armies lined up in neat little rows like a marching band -- the film "BARRY LYNDON" portrays this excellently. But the colonials -- most of them rural farmboys -- would shoot at soldiers from behind trees and then go running... not giving the professional soldiers in the King's Army a chance to retaliate effectively.
>
> Because the oppressed colonial "rebels" were in it to win it. It wasn't a fucking game to them. They used "injun" tactics that the English considered "savage".
>
> Of course, the British weren't so "civil" in their war-making. They used German Hessian mercenaries, who were notorious for their savagery, for slaughtering innocent people, noncombatants.
>
> Do I like it when innocent people are killed? No. But, in the case of Ireland, the reason that they BECAME extremists is due, in part, to the fact that NOTHING ELSE WAS WORKING. The Irish weren't and aren't any better or worse than any other group (ethnic or otherwise) of human beings. But things were a hell of a lot better in Ireland when they weren't being oppressed by foreigners. Unfortunately for them, the kings of England wanted also to be kings of ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, IRELAND, and FRANCE, all-in-one. That whole "divine right of kings" bullshit that kept European countries at each others' throats throughout the entire goddamned Middle Ages and into the Renaissance, and then had its modern-day resurgence in Nazism: "Today Europe... tomorrow the World!"
>
> I love my country, but I'm ashamed of the fact that our leaders got us embroiled in the Vietnam conflict. What Johnson & Nixon did there, in escalating the bloodshed, was unforgivable. The anti-war movement didn't begin in Berkeley (as some would like to believe), but was instigated by veterans of the war itself, and by soldiers who were "in country" who knew that our nation's policies were as indefensible as those of the Nazis. Vietnam never attacked America, as Japan did at Pearl Harbor. Yet we fought a war over there that killed many a civilian. And the Viet Cong fought back using tactics that every American soldier sure considered to be "terror" -- yet those tactics were used because they were fighting for their country against Invaders who had no fucking business being there. And those tactics worked. We KNOW they worked because the U.S. response was to napalm entire tracts of land, and to use Agent Orange. I'm pretty confident in believing that the Vietnamese who were subjected to that thought of the Americans as "terrorists". Those weren't exactly "surgical strikes" were they?
>
> Like Taylor at the start of PLANET, I "hope" that the Human Race one day will stop making war against his own brother. If people would just live-and-let-live, mind their own fucking business, and not cause any trouble by invading their neighbouring countries, then things would be a hell of a lot better.
>
> But that's not human nature, is it? That's the message of PLANET OF THE APES... that our own nature conspires to destroy us. Humanity "must be a warlike creature who gives battle to everything around him -- even himself!" Whether it's a "policy" of some government to impose itself upon some other nation, prompting a retaliation which prompts a "response" which leads to a long-term CONFLICT... or just one person "coveting" his neighbour's goods and then attempting to steal the loot, or to murder the guy whose stuff he wants... we are savages with a thin veneer of civilization. Anthropologists now know that this savage tendency to commit War goes back MILLIONS of years: they know this because they've discovered that Chimpanzee tribes wage war on other chimp tribes. Oh, maybe chimps only RECENTLY "evolved" the "gene" for making War... but chances are Chimps AND Humans make war because our common ancestor made war -- and that common ancestor lived about 5 million years ago.
>
> Sean Connery wants Scotland to be independent from the UK, out from under-the-thumb of England. I don't know if the majority of Scots agree with him, but I suspect they do. Why can't the government of England be content with governing just ENGLAND? Why can't they let their oldest "colonial possessions" go, as they did with India? Is it that the English have a beloved "tradition" of exploiting Ireland and Scotland, and to give it up would be like giving up Christmas?
>
> I don't like it when the IRA kills innocent people. I don't like it that England began oppressing them centuries ago, and is still imposing a presence there, prompting a response by those who just want the English to get the fuck out of Ireland. I'm sure there are those in Ireland who look at the history of the U.S.A. and wish that THEY had had the same outcome. America won its Independence. When the British tried to re-take their once-colonies in the War of 1812, they failed, and America remained an independent republic. I think that the Irish, deep down, wish they could have independence from England, and wish that their struggles would've had success like America had. But they didn't -- probably because they're not far enough away. There's no fucking OCEAN separating Ireland from the isle of Britain. And Ireland didn't have a superpower like France to help them, as America did during the Revolutionary War.
>
> Do I approve of "extremism" and the killing of innocent people? No. I sure wish the majority of GOVERNMENTS had such virtues. In the last administration, we had the Bush Doctrine put forth to justify PRE-EMPTIVE WAR in order to "prevent" any possible "terrorist" attacks... and this was used to justify invading Iraq and killing God knows HOW many truly innocent Iraqi civilians. Under George W. Bush, the U.S.A. became the moral equivalent of the IRA. And I'm ashamed of that. I wish more of my fellow voters would've chosen a better man for President. Too often, it's a choice between two evils, the lesser being not-so-much better than the worse-of-two.
>
> I'm disgusted with both the Republicans and the Democrats. All the major problems in America were caused by actions committed by both wings, Left and Right. The problem is POWER: it CORRUPTS. And GOVERNMENT IS POWER. That's why Tom Paine said that it's best -- if we NEED to have government -- for it to be as SMALL as possible.
>
> The U.S. Constitution is supposed to keep government from becoming too powerful. We aren't supposed to wage wars unless the Congress DECLARES war. But we haven't "declared" war since World War Two. Yet we've FOUGHT wars -- or, excuse me, "police actions". And, in the case of Iraq, America didn't "declare" war -- but our Congress voted to give the "coalition" the authority to enforce a U.N. resolution... which amounted to invading a country and waging a war there which not only toppled Saddam's regime, but also turned that entire area into a hellhole. And the civilians there are considered "collateral damage".
>
> Is there an answer to the Problem? Can the human race be reformed, or will we always be "jungle creatures" (as Eleonore of Aquitaine says of us in "THE LION IN WINTER") at each other's throats for all eternity?
>
> There are no easy answers in PLANET OF THE APES. That's why it's such a magnificent film (and series). Armando said that "We must love one another or DIE." Because we'll KILL each other, otherwise. It's in our nature. I wish it wasn't, but it's THERE.
>
> If the English don't like what some in the IRA do, maybe they should mind their own business and get the fuck out of Ireland. Let the English stay in England, the Irish stay in Ireland, and they can both be good neighbours to each other, rather than one being an Occupier and the other being Occupied. If the American people had and have the right for Self-Governance, then surely the Irish do, too. Every individual has the right to go about his/her life without some government -- be it their own or some foreign one -- interfering with them. When any government DOES interfere -- either with their own people's rights or with the rights of other people living in other nations -- it should expect a response they might not like.
>
> And they'll probably always call ANY response "terrorism". And that is an insult to somebody who is a genuine victim of true terrorism.
>
> Patrick
>
> P.S. No, Mr. Haydon. You said: "next you will be telling me that the talaban are atheists and they have the same beliefs, same as the IRA.
> Sorry but IRA where terrorists same goes for the talaban, loose talk about something you have no idea about gets people killed."
>
> The Taliban are religious fanatics oppressing not only their own people, but they provided Al-Qaeda with support (training camps) for their worldwide jihad against their "infidel" enemies -- the U.S.A., Israel, etc. The war against the Taliban in Afghanistan is justified, unlike the Iraq War. For siding with Bin Laden, the Taliban deserve to be wiped out. If Iraq had had anything to do with 9/11, then I'd approve of cleaning their clocks, too... but they DIDN'T have anything to do with 9/11.
>
> The Taliban have a tactic whereby they throw acid in the face of any female Afghani who dares go around not covered up in a burqa. THAT is terrorism. Do the Irish in the IRA do that, or anything even remotely LIKE that? Perhaps some members of the IRA do. But certainly not all.
>
> And plenty of people are already getting killed over the question of Irish independence -- on BOTH sides. My so-called "loose talk" isn't adding to the damned body-count! There aren't any IRA sympathizers haunting the POTADG, reading my posts, and then saying: "Hey! That PLANET OF THE APES fan criticizes English occupation of Ireland... LET'S GO MURDER A BUNCH OF PEOPLE!" That's just absurd.
>
> > >

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:23 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] How hard can it be?

I’ve counted back over 20 plus other topics Patrick – all regarding POTA – and you choose to post 4 times about this crap and not anything about POTA.

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Monday, 16 March 2009 7:05 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Places with gun control have fewer murders.

Patrick

What you say is just silly, even absurd and I’m bored with it.

Please use this group to talk about Planet of the Apes.

Really – is that too much to ask?

Take it anywhere else but not here please.

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilto n
Sent: Monday, 16 March 2009 6:09 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Places with gun control have fewer murders.

*** Hoo boy...

>
> Why not just IGNORE those posts?
>
> Jeff B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael & Sally Whitty
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:23 PM
> Subject: [PotaDG] How hard can it be?
>
>
>
> I've counted back over 20 plus other topics Patrick - all regarding POTA - and you choose to post 4 times about this crap and not anything about POTA.
>
> Michael
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
> Sent: Monday, 16 March 2009 7:05 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Places with gun control have fewer murders.
>
> Patrick
>
> What you say is just silly, even absurd and I'm bored with it.
>
> Please use this group to talk about Planet of the Apes.
>
> Really - is that too much to ask?
>
> Take it anywhere else but not here please.
>
> Michael
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
> Sent: Monday, 16 March 2009 6:09 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Places with gun control have fewer murders.
>
> *** Hoo boy...
>

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 6:09 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Places with gun control have fewer murders.

*** Hoo boy...

If this gets me kicked outta the DG, then so be it. I'm just about to the point of exiting-stage- left anyway.

First off: Neil, to take a PORTION of one sentence I wrote regarding the conflict in Ireland OUT OF CONTEXT so as to make it SEEM as if I actually DO approve of certain vicious acts of violence committed by the IRA... that's just fucking bullshit. Let me draw a POTA comparison, to make it "on-topic".

In "THE TYRANT" we have two human farmers who are being oppressed by the "tyrant" Aboro, Janor and Mikal. The gorillas have GUNS and the peasant humans DON'T. The humans attempt to resist -- Mikal taking part in an act of retribution with Virdon & Burke against the grain-stealing gorillas... and he winds up getting killed.

Janor vows to kill Aboro if the Fugitives don't get justice for his murdered brother.

As a result of the actions of the Fugitives, lo and behold they actually DO get justice for Mikal -- so that Janor can go on living his life without resorting to killing somebody [Aboro].

But what would've happened if those Fugitives hadn't been around? The grain would've been stolen. Mikal would've gone off and done something "foolish" -- like stick up for his rights. The gorillas would've killed him, just the same. And then Janor would've sought revenge for his brother's death.

AND HE WOULD'VE BEEN JUSTIFIED. If Janor, in such circumstances, had ended the lives of Aboro and his thugs, it would've been JUSTICE. Oppressed peoples have a RIGHT to defend themselves against tyranny, even if that includes waging war, in DEFENSE of self.

Every Veterans Day we (in America) honor those still-living soldiers who have fought -- and KILLED -- the enemies of our nation. Hell, we even honor them if the "enemy" nations hadn't even attacked us -- like Vietnam and Iraq! The politicians who got us into those "police actions" deserve opprobrium, but not the soldiers who couldn't pick-and-choose which conflict to fight in -- unless they were so off-put by it that they became a "conscientious objector".

Every Memorial Day we honor those soldiers who lost their lives -- and, in certain instances, GAVE their lives -- while FIGHTING and KILLING the Enemy.

Mike, YOU point out that "The IRA became extremists and killed innocent people." True. They BECAME extremists. I don't approve of such extremism, when it devolves into killing innocent people.

That is to say, I don't GENERALLY approve of it. But let us remember that the Allies won WORLD WAR TWO because in addition to fire-bombing Tokyo (etc) we dropped nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It had become a war of attrition, where CIVILIAN TARGETS were purposely bombed, in order to FORCE the Japanese to an unconditional surrender -- because they WEREN'T going to surrender, due to their fanatical devotion to an Emperor they believed to be a GOD.

Am I happy that Japanese civilians were killed by Allied bombing? OF COURSE NOT! Nor am I happy with how the Japanese treated prisoners of war -- go watch a documentary about the Bataan Death March to see what I'm talking about. Chuck Heston had a thing or two to say about Truman's decision to drop the Bomb -- Chuck might very well have died in a full-on invasion of Japan, since they estimated that the death toll of both Allies and Japanese would've been far far higher in an invasion, rather than with the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. A few tens of thousands were killed by our use of nukes... as weighed against a death-toll in the MILLIONS that would otherwise have happened in an invasion.

Yet there are those who say that dropping the Bomb was a "war crime". In my opinion, it was the lesser of two evils. And it would've been MORE evil to do nothing and allow Japan to go on committing their atrocities, pursuing their goal of conquering neighbouring nations (leading to incidents like the Rape of Nanking).

As for Neil's relatives who've served in Northern Ireland, well, I'm sure they have opinions regarding UK policy and the enforcement of it by the military. I have just this to ask: WHOSE COUNTRY IS IT? Historically -- and by that I mean going back THOUSANDS of years -- Ireland "belongs" to the Irish. The English should never have fucked around trying to conquer them. Every people living their lives, minding their own business, who then get attacked & invaded and are put into subjection have a very real, very HUMAN sense of being WRONGED. And it is natural to resent it. What the English began to do to Ireland, many hundreds of years ago, was morally equivalent to RAPE and CHILD ABUSE.

The same could be said about England's treatment of Scotland, by the way. Was William Wallace a "terrorist" for fighting back against the English and against those Scots who collaborated with them? I'm sure the English thought of Wallace as a "terrorist" -- How DARE he fight back!

Come to think of it, the American Revolution was perceived by some in England as a "terrorist" movement. Back then, professional armies lined up in neat little rows like a marching band -- the film "BARRY LYNDON" portrays this excellently. But the colonials -- most of them rural farmboys -- would shoot at soldiers from behind trees and then go running... not giving the professional soldiers in the King's Army a chance to retaliate effectively.

Because the oppressed colonial "rebels" were in it to win it. It wasn't a fucking game to them. They used "injun" tactics that the English considered "savage".

Of course, the British weren't so "civil" in their war-making. They used German Hessian mercenaries, who were notorious for their savagery, for slaughtering innocent people, noncombatants.

Do I like it when innocent people are killed? No. But, in the case of Ireland, the reason that they BECAME extremists is due, in part, to the fact that NOTHING ELSE WAS WORKING. The Irish weren't and aren't any better or worse than any other group (ethnic or otherwise) of human beings. But things were a hell of a lot better in Ireland when they weren't being oppressed by foreigners. Unfortunately for them, the kings of England wanted also to be kings of ENGLAND, SCOTLAND, IRELAND, and FRANCE, all-in-one. That whole "divine right of kings" bullshit that kept European countries at each others' throats throughout the entire goddamned Middle Ages and into the Renaissance, and then had its modern-day resurgence in Nazism: "Today Europe... tomorrow the World!"

I love my country, but I'm ashamed of the fact that our leaders got us embroiled in the Vietnam conflict. What Johnson & Nixon did there, in escalating the bloodshed, was unforgivable. The anti-war movement didn't begin in Berkeley (as some would like to believe), but was instigated by veterans of the war itself, and by soldiers who were "in country" who knew that our nation's policies were as indefensible as those of the Nazis. Vietnam never attacked America, as Japan did at Pearl Harbor. Yet we fought a war over there that killed many a civilian. And the Viet Cong fought back using tactics that every American soldier sure considered to be "terror" -- yet those tactics were used because they were fighting for their country against Invaders who had no fucking business being there. And those tactics worked. We KNOW they worked because the U.S. response was to napalm entire tracts of land, and to use Agent Orange. I'm pretty confident in believing that the Vietnamese who were subjected to that thought of the Americans as "terrorists" . Those weren't exactly "surgical strikes" were they?

Like Taylor at the start of PLANET, I "hope" that the Human Race one day will stop making war against his own brother. If people would just live-and-let- live, mind their own fucking business, and not cause any trouble by invading their neighbouring countries, then things would be a hell of a lot better.

But that's not human nature, is it? That's the message of PLANET OF THE APES... that our own nature conspires to destroy us. Humanity "must be a warlike creature who gives battle to everything around him -- even himself!" Whether it's a "policy" of some government to impose itself upon some other nation, prompting a retaliation which prompts a "response" which leads to a long-term CONFLICT... or just one person "coveting" his neighbour's goods and then attempting to steal the loot, or to murder the guy whose stuff he wants... we are savages with a thin veneer of civilization. Anthropologists now know that this savage tendency to commit War goes back MILLIONS of years: they know this because they've discovered that Chimpanzee tribes wage war on other chimp tribes. Oh, maybe chimps only RECENTLY "evolved" the "gene" for making War... but chances are Chimps AND Humans make war because our common ancestor made war -- and that common ancestor lived about 5 million years ago.

Sean Connery wants Scotland to be independent from the UK, out from under-the-thumb of England. I don't know if the majority of Scots agree with him, but I suspect they do. Why can't the government of England be content with governing just ENGLAND? Why can't they let their oldest "colonial possessions" go, as they did with India? Is it that the English have a beloved "tradition" of exploiting Ireland and Scotland, and to give it up would be like giving up Christmas?

I don't like it when the IRA kills innocent people. I don't like it that England began oppressing them centuries ago, and is still imposing a presence there, prompting a response by those who just want the English to get the fuck out of Ireland. I'm sure there are those in Ireland who look at the history of the U.S.A. and wish that THEY had had the same outcome. America won its Independence. When the British tried to re-take their once-colonies in the War of 1812, they failed, and America remained an independent republic. I think that the Irish, deep down, wish they could have independence from England, and wish that their struggles would've had success like America had. But they didn't -- probably because they're not far enough away. There's no fucking OCEAN separating Ireland from the isle of Britain. And Ireland didn't have a superpower like France to help them, as America did during the Revolutionary War.

Do I approve of "extremism" and the killing of innocent people? No. I sure wish the majority of GOVERNMENTS had such virtues. In the last administration, we had the Bush Doctrine put forth to justify PRE-EMPTIVE WAR in order to "prevent" any possible "terrorist" attacks... and this was used to justify invading Iraq and killing God knows HOW many truly innocent Iraqi civilians. Under George W. Bush, the U.S.A. became the moral equivalent of the IRA. And I'm ashamed of that. I wish more of my fellow voters would've chosen a better man for President. Too often, it's a choice between two evils, the lesser being not-so-much better than the worse-of-two.

I'm disgusted with both the Republicans and the Democrats. All the major problems in America were caused by actions committed by both wings, Left and Right. The problem is POWER: it CORRUPTS. And GOVERNMENT IS POWER. That's why Tom Paine said that it's best -- if we NEED to have government -- for it to be as SMALL as possible.

The U.S. Constitution is supposed to keep government from becoming too powerful. We aren't supposed to wage wars unless the Congress DECLARES war. But we haven't "declared" war since World War Two. Yet we've FOUGHT wars -- or, excuse me, "police actions". And, in the case of Iraq, America didn't "declare" war -- but our Congress voted to give the "coalition" the authority to enforce a U.N. resolution.. . which amounted to invading a country and waging a war there which not only toppled Saddam's regime, but also turned that entire area into a hellhole. And the civilians there are considered "collateral damage".

Is there an answer to the Problem? Can the human race be reformed, or will we always be "jungle creatures" (as Eleonore of Aquitaine says of us in "THE LION IN WINTER") at each other's throats for all eternity?

There are no easy answers in PLANET OF THE APES. That's why it's such a magnificent film (and series). Armando said that "We must love one another or DIE." Because we'll KILL each other, otherwise. It's in our nature. I wish it wasn't, but it's THERE.

If the English don't like what some in the IRA do, maybe they should mind their own business and get the fuck out of Ireland. Let the English stay in England, the Irish stay in Ireland, and they can both be good neighbours to each other, rather than one being an Occupier and the other being Occupied. If the American people had and have the right for Self-Governance, then surely the Irish do, too. Every individual has the right to go about his/her life without some government -- be it their own or some foreign one -- interfering with them. When any government DOES interfere -- either with their own people's rights or with the rights of other people living in other nations -- it should expect a response they might not like.

And they'll probably always call ANY response "terrorism". And that is an insult to somebody who is a genuine victim of true terrorism.

Patrick

P.S. No, Mr. Haydon. You said: "next you will be telling me that the talaban are atheists and they have the same beliefs, same as the IRA.
Sorry but IRA where terrorists same goes for the talaban, loose talk about something you have no idea about gets people killed."

The Taliban are religious fanatics oppressing not only their own people, but they provided Al-Qaeda with support (training camps) for their worldwide jihad against their "infidel" enemies -- the U.S.A., Israel, etc. The war against the Taliban in Afghanistan is justified, unlike the Iraq War. For siding with Bin Laden, the Taliban deserve to be wiped out. If Iraq had had anything to do with 9/11, then I'd approve of cleaning their clocks, too... but they DIDN'T have anything to do with 9/11.

The Taliban have a tactic whereby they throw acid in the face of any female Afghani who dares go around not covered up in a burqa. THAT is terrorism. Do the Irish in the IRA do that, or anything even remotely LIKE that? Perhaps some members of the IRA do. But certainly not all.

And plenty of people are already getting killed over the question of Irish independence -- on BOTH sides. My so-called "loose talk" isn't adding to the damned body-count! There aren't any IRA sympathizers haunting the POTADG, reading my posts, and then saying: "Hey! That PLANET OF THE APES fan criticizes English occupation of Ireland... LET'S GO MURDER A BUNCH OF PEOPLE!" That's just absurd.

____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
The IRA became extremists and killed innocent people.

Anyone who thinks this is OK in any context - get the fuck off this group.

Patrick, I know that's NOT what you are saying but damn you are going close.

Now - anyone who wants to discuss guns and or the IRA please set up a group.

I'll let the DG know about your group and anyone who wants to can join you group but right now, please let's get back to POTA.

Michael
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
So which ones do you approve of then?

And please be a bit more thoughtful when spouting off any more rubbish about the IRA on this forum please. I have relatives who served in the army in Northern Ireland in the 70's and I believe they are a bit more informed about what went on than you think you are.

Neil
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
Now, mind you, I don't approve of every single vicious act of violence committed by the IRA,

On Sun, Mar 15, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty < sallywhitty@...> wrote:

Are these the Mego ones with the hand held remote coming out the back?

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, 16 March 2009 4:21 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Horses for your Sideshow apes

*** Original brown and black "COMMANCHE" and "THUNDERBOLT" horses can be found for less if you check around on eBay.***

In a message dated 3/15/09 12:07:40 AM Central Standard Time, jessicarotich@... writes:

http://www.koehlercustoms.com/ A run of 195 only.

http://stevostoys.com/WESTERN_HORSE.htm A run of 200 only.

Horses are about $40 each. Preorders are being taken now.

They really know how to make my wallet bleed.

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Hoknes
Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 7:00 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: THE TRUTH - comic strip - artist needed !

Rob Medford has shown potential interest in getting involved

hopefully that works out

will definitely keep everyone posted

 

 

 

OK

I hear you got a taker on the POTA group!

All the best and don't forget to share when it comes out - I really would love to see it!

Michael

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com, "Terry Hoknes" <hoknescards@ ...> wrote:
>
> The script was written by me
> James and Glen were involved with lettering and coloring and editing
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So Terry who actually wrote the script? And to what extent did James and
> Glen help?
>
> This could be a great opportunity to build a bridge.
>
> Michael
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups. com, "James" <JamesA1102@ > wrote:
>
> Hey Terry,
>
> I remember working on the strip with you, Dan and Glen. It was a shame
> that Dan's health forced him to pull out. Thankfully he recovered. It is
> also a shame that Neil is unable to complete the strip, he's the best
> POTA artist I've ever seen. And if I remember correctly, you came up
> with a really great story for the strip. I hope that you can find a good
> artist to complete it.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups. com, "Terry Hoknes" <hoknescards@ > wrote:
> >
> > Here is the original artwork by Dan Vernaet done in 2004
> > Neil did a new version in 2008
> > They are totally unique from each other but I love both of them
> >
> > Neither artist has time to do a complete project
> > so at this point a new artist is still needed for this project to ever
> see light
> >
> > The goal was to find someone who could draw one of these panel/strips
> per week or bi-weekly
> >
>
> --- End forwarded message ---
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> http://www.megomuseum.com/blog/2009/03/planet-of-apes-store-appearance-1975.html"
>