On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty < sallywhitty@...> wrote:

I got wood from that!

OK I just laughed a lot but whatever…..

Thanks Jess – again we wonder just what the search words were here….hmmmm. J

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of jessica rotich
Sent: Saturday, 20 June 2009 1:17 PM

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

More fun stuff found. There's quite a series of plastic monkey love going here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/maloleche/3638710313/

Jessica.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@... > wrote:

Oh I didn't realize I hadn't been clear – it was a quote I sent from a GOOGLE search.

I'm baffled about the connection too!

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 10:43 AM

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

I dunno. Michael brought it up. Is it like the age thing between Taylor and Nova?

----- Original Message -----

From: jessica rotich

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:09 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

I have now seen the photos but I need to look again, because I didn't see anything ape-related about it. I see homage to 12 Monkeys, but not Planet of the Apes. Am I missing something?

Jess.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Neil Foster <ntfoster@... > wrote:

But what the heck has it got to do with Planet of the Apes?!

Hmm, old bloke marries a bird almost half his age, not very Hollywood that is it? I'm sure they'll be married to each other for the rest of their lives, ho hum.

Neil T. Foster

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:47 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

Above the picture it says "slideshow" or show "pictures". There's a ton of them.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:15 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

I can't see the pics....only one on the first page...are there supposed to be more?

---

From: "TZer0@..." <TZer0@...>
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:33:31 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

What's Ape about it?

Is she wearing monkey fur?

In a message dated 6/16/2009 7:23:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, sallywhitty@ bigpond.com writes:

What the?!?!?

What a cozy clan!
You want weird? You can't handle weird. Bruce Willis, 54, and fresh new bride Emma Heming, 23, did a Planet of the Apes-themed S&M spread . . . we are looking right at it, we're not making this up . . . in July's issue of W, replete with simulated intimate positions and stuff. The bizarre "portfolio" is titled "Mr. & Mrs. Willis." Bruce says he and Emma and his ex, Demi Moore, and her hubby, Ashton Kutcher, and all the Moore/Willis kids are supertight: "We've become like a tribe." Emma says the whole swell thing is "comfortable and fun." Now make with the chains, honey!!!

---

Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips.

.html <.html

Wow...that was...interesting. LOL

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, jessica rotich <jessicarotich@...> wrote:
>
> Did you see the rest of the photos though?
>
> The photos were unbelievably tagged with Planet of the Apes. Those were the
> search words. Yep.
>
> Jessica.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 8:44 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty <
> sallywhitty@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I got wood from that!
> >
> >
> >
> > OK I just laughed a lot but whatever…..
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks Jess – again we wonder just what the search words were
> > here….hmmmm. J
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] *On Behalf
> > Of *jessica rotich
> > *Sent:* Saturday, 20 June 2009 1:17 PM
> >
> > *To:* PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > More fun stuff found. There's quite a series of plastic monkey love
> > going here.
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.flickr.com/photos/maloleche/3638710313/
> >
> >
> >
> > Jessica.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty <
> > sallywhitty@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Oh I didn't realize I hadn't been clear – it was a quote I sent from a
> > GOOGLE search.
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm baffled about the connection too!
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] *On Behalf
> > Of *Jeff K.
> > *Sent:* Thursday, 18 June 2009 10:43 AM
> >
> >
> > *To:* PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I dunno. Michael brought it up. Is it like the age thing between Taylor
> > and Nova?
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* jessica rotich <jessicarotich@...>
> >
> > *To:* PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:09 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis
> >
> >
> >
> > I have now seen the photos but I need to look again, because I didn't see
> > anything ape-related about it. I see homage to 12 Monkeys, but not Planet
> > of the Apes. Am I missing something?
> >
> > Jess.
> >
> > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Neil Foster <ntfoster@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > But what the heck has it got to do with Planet of the Apes?!
> >
> > Hmm, old bloke marries a bird almost half his age, not very Hollywood that
> > is it? I'm sure they'll be married to each other for the rest of their
> > lives, ho hum.
> >
> >
> >
> > *Neil T. Foster*
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] *On Behalf
> > Of *Jeff K.
> > *Sent:* Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:47 AM
> > *To:* PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis
> >
> > Above the picture it says "slideshow" or show "pictures". There's a ton
> > of them.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >
> > *From:* Tim "apefan" <apefan23@...>
> >
> > *To:* PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:15 PM
> >
> > *Subject:* Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis
> >
> >
> >
> > I can't see the pics....only one on the first page...are there supposed to
> > be more?
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > *From:* "TZer0@..." <TZer0@...>
> > *To:* PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:33:31 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis
> >
> >
> >
> > What's Ape about it?
> >
> > Is she wearing monkey fur?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/16/2009 7:23:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> > sallywhitty@ bigpond.com writes:
> >
> >
> >
> > What the?!?!?
> >
> > What a cozy clan!
> > You want weird? You can't handle weird. Bruce Willis, 54, and fresh new
> > bride Emma Heming, 23, did a Planet of the Apes-themed S&M spread . . . we
> > are looking right at it, we're not making this up . . . in July's issue of
> > W, replete with simulated intimate positions and stuff. The bizarre
> > "portfolio" is titled "Mr. & Mrs. Willis." Bruce says he and Emma and his
> > ex, Demi Moore, and her hubby, Ashton Kutcher, and all the Moore/Willis kids
> > are supertight: "We've become like a tribe." Emma says the whole swell thing
> > is "comfortable and fun." Now make with the chains, honey!!!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar< http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.htmlncid=emlcntusdown00000004 >for local deals at your fingertips.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: jessica rotich

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:17 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

More fun stuff found.  There's quite a series of plastic monkey love going here.

 

http://www.flickr. com/photos/ maloleche/ 3638710313/

 

Jessica.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@ bigpond.com> wrote:

Oh I didn't realize I hadn't been clear – it was a quote I sent from a GOOGLE search.

 

I'm baffled about the connection too!

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 10:43 AM

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

 

  I dunno. Michael brought it up. Is it like the age thing between Taylor and Nova?

 

----- Original Message -----

From: jessica rotich

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:09 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

 

I have now seen the photos but I need to look again, because I didn't see anything ape-related about it.  I see homage to 12 Monkeys, but not Planet of the Apes.  Am I missing something?

Jess.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Neil Foster <ntfoster@bigpond. com> wrote:

 

But what the heck has it got to do with Planet of the Apes?!

Hmm, old bloke marries a bird almost half his age, not very Hollywood that is it? I'm sure they'll be married to each other for the rest of their lives, ho hum.

 

Neil T. Foster

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:47 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

  Above the picture it says "slideshow" or show "pictures". There's a ton of them.

 

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:15 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

 

I can't see the pics....only one on the first page...are there supposed to be more?

 

---

From: "TZer0@..." <TZer0@...>
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:33:31 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

 

What's Ape about it?

Is she wearing monkey fur?

 

 

In a message dated 6/16/2009 7:23:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, sallywhitty@ bigpond.com writes:

 

What the?!?!?

What a cozy clan!
You want weird? You can't handle weird. Bruce Willis, 54, and fresh new bride Emma Heming, 23, did a Planet of the Apes-themed S&M spread . . . we are looking right at it, we're not making this up . . . in July's issue of W, replete with simulated intimate positions and stuff. The bizarre "portfolio" is titled "Mr. & Mrs. Willis." Bruce says he and Emma and his ex, Demi Moore, and her hubby, Ashton Kutcher, and all the Moore/Willis kids are supertight: "We've become like a tribe." Emma says the whole swell thing is "comfortable and fun." Now make with the chains, honey!!!

---

Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips.

 

 

<.html

Not much Planet of the Apes appeal to these. The Planet logo is IN the
shoe, not on it. I wouldn't have even known they were POTA inspired if I
saw someone wearing these right next to me. Well not before seeing these
pics at least.

Now it it had the words plainly visible, or even better an ape pic right
on the shoe, that would be something else.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Foster <ntfoster@...>
Date: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:48 pm
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] custom POTA Nikes!

> "The insoles pictured below are painted red and yellow with the Planet
> of the Apes lettering used in the comic book series"
>
> Umm no they aren't, that is not the same font as used for the
> Adventureson the POTA comic series, nothing like it.
>
> Neil T. Foster
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
> Of Jeff K.
> Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:34 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] custom POTA Nikes!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The only thing that would make it look more like POTA is if Bruce
> Willis was wearing them!
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim "apefan" <mailto:apefan23@...>
> To: POTA <mailto:pota@yahoogroups.com> ; POTA
> <mailto:PotaDG@yahoogroups.com> DG
> Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 5:23 AM
> Subject: [PotaDG] custom POTA Nikes!
>
>
>
>
> http://www.myairsho
> <http://www.myairshoes.com/nike/the-planet-of-the-apes-nike-dunk-
> highs.htmlgt; es.com/nike/the-planet-of-the-apes-nike-dunk-highs.htmlbr> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html <.html

On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Jeff K. <veetus@...> wrote:

At least those crappy Hasbro figures are finally good for something.

----- Original Message -----

From: jessica rotich

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:17 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

More fun stuff found. There's quite a series of plastic monkey love going here.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/maloleche/3638710313/

Jessica.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 7:26 PM, Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@...> wrote:

Oh I didn't realize I hadn't been clear – it was a quote I sent from a GOOGLE search.

I'm baffled about the connection too!

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Thursday, 18 June 2009 10:43 AM

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

I dunno. Michael brought it up. Is it like the age thing between Taylor and Nova?

----- Original Message -----

From: jessica rotich

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 3:09 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

I have now seen the photos but I need to look again, because I didn't see anything ape-related about it. I see homage to 12 Monkeys, but not Planet of the Apes. Am I missing something?

Jess.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Neil Foster <ntfoster@...> wrote:

But what the heck has it got to do with Planet of the Apes?!

Hmm, old bloke marries a bird almost half his age, not very Hollywood that is it? I'm sure they'll be married to each other for the rest of their lives, ho hum.

Neil T. Foster

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 7:47 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

Above the picture it says "slideshow" or show "pictures". There's a ton of them.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 2:15 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

I can't see the pics....only one on the first page...are there supposed to be more?

---

From: "TZer0@..." <TZer0@...>
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2009 4:33:31 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bruce's Willis

What's Ape about it?

Is she wearing monkey fur?

In a message dated 6/16/2009 7:23:58 P.M. Central Daylight Time, sallywhitty@ bigpond.com writes:

What the?!?!?

What a cozy clan!
You want weird? You can't handle weird. Bruce Willis, 54, and fresh new bride Emma Heming, 23, did a Planet of the Apes-themed S&M spread . . . we are looking right at it, we're not making this up . . . in July's issue of W, replete with simulated intimate positions and stuff. The bizarre "portfolio" is titled "Mr. & Mrs. Willis." Bruce says he and Emma and his ex, Demi Moore, and her hubby, Ashton Kutcher, and all the Moore/Willis kids are supertight: "We've become like a tribe." Emma says the whole swell thing is "comfortable and fun." Now make with the chains, honey!!!

---

Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips.

.html

Reminder from:		PotaDG Yahoo! Group
Title:		Lalo Schifrin's Birthday
Date:		Sunday June 21, 2009
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Notes:		Happy Birthday Lalo! (Composer: Planet of the Apes TV series)
Yahoo! Greetings:		Send a Yahoo! Greeting
Yahoo! Shopping:		Browse Yahoo! Shopping Gift Guide
Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options

Copyright © 2009  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael & Sally Whitty" <sallywhitty@...> wrote:

>
> Patrick,
> You got my post and read the link that explains what the 3 wise monkeys are all about (ie nothing to do with what you are claiming)?
> I actually guessed you would put that aside and continue along the wrong path with this but I was actually hoping to be wrong.
>
> Michael

_______________________________________________________________

Michael,

What the f*** are you yabbering about? The "wrong path"???

Yes, Mike, I did read that wiki page about the 3 Wise Monkeys. But you are missing the point. It doesn't really matter what the 3 Wise Monkeys motif originally meant. It has come to mean various things to various people subsequently -- and what is most important for us POTA fans here is what it meant to the people who were on-the-set filming the Tribunal scene when they decided on the spur-of-the-moment to have Maximus-President-Zaius "pose" as the 3 Wise Monkeys.

When the 3 Wise Monkeys motif was first invented, did it have anything whatsoever to do with the Top Secret project to develop Nuclear Weapons? Of course not!!! But that didn't stop the U.S. Department of War from making use of that motif in a wholly new way when they depicted them on a HUGE sign informing the civilian employees of the Oak Ridge facility not to violate their security oaths.

What started out as an oriental riff on the Golden Rule had become transmogrified into a National Security emblem. It became emblematic of Secrecy.

And all that had happened in the early 1940's, during the Manhattan Project. Twenty years before the production of the movie version of Boulle's novel.

The film version of PLANET OF THE APES -- unlike Boulle's novel -- is a political film about (among other things) the keeping of state secrets. Zaius, in Boulle's novel, is unaware of the fact that humans on Soror had once been the top species. The archaeological discoveries of Cornelius and the brain-stimulating experiments of Helius were proving that Man had once been the intelligent species prior to the role-reversal that led to Simian dominance.

But in the film version, Zaius (and his predecessors) had been -- as Taylor put it -- "the Guardian of the TERRIBLE SECRET..." Zaius has had a whole lifetime devoted to KEEPING THAT SECRET. Not only does he keep that information from the masses, he actively intercedes to suppress the exposing of any newly-discovered evidence brought forth by others (as when he had said -- along with half the Academy -- that Cornelius' interpretation of the artifacts he had found were heretical, and then later had Marcus use explosives to DESTROY EVIDENCE -- to make it impossible for any other person to SEE it for themselves). The Tribunal was held not only to "expose Zira and Cornelius" as dangerous heretics, but also to DISPOSE OF TAYLOR who, himself, is evidence that tends to support the heretical theories.

As Zira had said, "But what about your theory? The existence of someone like Taylor might prove it." The existence of Taylor threatens the Orthodoxy, which is why Zaius says that "This creature's not being tried, he's being disposed of . It is scientific heresy that is being tried here." That's why the President ends the hearing by stating: "This tribunal will examine all the evidence presented here and, in due course, render its verdict as to the proposed indictment and as to the disposition of the deviate in question."

Yeah, Mike, I read the wiki page about the 3 Wise Monkeys. But that site does not tell us everything there is to know about that motif. There is no mention there of the use of the motif by the U.S. War Department for their Oak Ridge facility. There was no mention of its use in PLANET OF THE APES. That wiki page was not a comprehensive overview of the subject. It was moderately informative, but not by any means an all-encompassing treatment of the subject.

In the POTA universe -- the film one, not Boulle's source novel -- the civilization built by the Human Race had self-destructed due to the use of Nuclear Weapons. That possibility didn't exist until nuclear secrets had been divulged to the Soviets by traitors in the employ of the U.S. Department of War. Well-meaning scientists who didn't think that any one nation -- not even the United States of America -- should be the sole possessor of the ultimate weapon. Once the Soviets acquired the Top Secret intel that enabled them to build and test and stockpile tens of thousands of nukes, the stage was set for what most people envisioned as "world war 3" -- a nuclear war.

WHAT YOU SEE HERE... WHAT YOU DO HERE... WHAT YOU HEAR HERE... WHEN YOU LEAVE HERE LET IT STAY HERE.

Somebody seeing those words -- and the image of the Three Wise Monkeys -- as he left his top secret job at Oak Ridge, Tennessee back in 1944-to-1945... somebody who subsequently revealed to the "enemy" (i.e. Russia) what was SAID and DONE and HEARD there, became directly responsible for the fact that the next several generations of human beings living on the Earth were living in fear of an imminent nuclear war -- of Mutually Assured Destruction.

The film version of PLANET OF THE APES is about that worst fear becoming a reality. And the audience doesn't even realize it until the very end of the film. Everything the audience has seen up to that point has to be re-evaluated in light of that fact. The ending of the film changes how everything else has to be viewed and interpreted. Including the "Three Wise Monkeys" motif.

Was it put in there just to get a cheap laugh? If you think so, then... whatever. Neil seems to think that PLANET OF THE APES was "just a sci-fi movie". I disagree. It wasn't "just" anything! It was primarily a political satire wearing the trappings of Science Fiction. Like many Twilight Zone episodes. It was possible to say things with SF that were politically (and religiously) dangerous that couldn't be said any other way. Not if they wanted to get away with it, anyway.

Speak No Evil. When Zaius has Cornelius silenced at the end of the film, we see that he is not above using force to prevent the "speaking of evil" -- even if it is the Truth that is "evil". It's one thing for those orangutans in charge of Ape society to have Taylor gagged -- forcibly silenced like a muzzled animal -- but it's a whole 'nuther thing for Zaius to do that to a fellow ape . Yet he does it. What had at first seemed like a humorous detail (the Three Wise Monkeys pose during the Tribunal) takes on a rather Orwellian, darker tone at the end. If we ignore BENEATH and all the other sequels, and imagine only the 1st film, then the implication is that not only will Zira and Cornelius be put on trial for Heresy, but they will be convicted no matter what, and suffer whatever it is that the State can possibly inflict on them. Chances are Lucius, too, will get the shaft. At all costs, Zaius will do what he feels he must do in order to protect and save their society from the danger of following Man down the path of self-destruction. Zaius thinks his actions may indeed be saving the Future. If three innocents have to suffer to ensure that the Future is "saved"... if Knowledge must "stand still"... if the Truth is too dangerous, so as to cause the rulers of society to enshrine a Lie as the official orthodox dogma... then so be it.

Just a sci-fi film? Talkin' monkeys riding horses... ain't it kewl? Yeesh!

Not only was PLANET an enormously entertaining film, it was IMPORTANT. It had something to say. Something profound . It is sometimes dismaying to me that the primary focus at this group seems to be over the merchandise that the APES series generated. Belt buckles... trash cans... life-size posable figures... MEGO figures, etc etc etc. There's a place for such miscellany in POTA fandom, sure... but PLANET was so much more than all that.

Patrick

 

.html <.html

No, the filmmakers weren't referring to the sign, as the sign wasn't
accessible to the general public, and employees wouldn't have
discussed it with outsiders.

Anthony

On Jun 21, 2009, at 10:48 am, Michael & Sally Whitty wrote:

> May I ask if anyone else in the group thinks it is a reference to
> anything other than the very obvious 3 wise monkeys?
>
> Michael

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:31 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Can you think of any goofs in the first POTA film or any cheesy ...

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com, "Michael & Sally Whitty" <sallywhitty@ ...> wrote:
>
> Patrick,
> You got my post and read the link that explains what the 3 wise monkeys are all about (ie nothing to do with what you are claiming)?
> I actually guessed you would put that aside and continue along the wrong path with this but I was actually hoping to be wrong.
>
> Michael
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ ______

Michael,

What the f*** are you yabbering about? The "wrong path"???

Yes, Mike, I did read that wiki page about the 3 Wise Monkeys. But you are missing the point. It doesn't really matter what the 3 Wise Monkeys motif originally meant. It has come to mean various things to various people subsequently -- and what is most important for us POTA fans here is what it meant to the people who were on-the-set filming the Tribunal scene when they decided on the spur-of-the- moment to have Maximus-President- Zaius "pose" as the 3 Wise Monkeys.

When the 3 Wise Monkeys motif was first invented, did it have anything whatsoever to do with the Top Secret project to develop Nuclear Weapons? Of course not!!! But that didn't stop the U.S. Department of War from making use of that motif in a wholly new way when they depicted them on a HUGE sign informing the civilian employees of the Oak Ridge facility not to violate their security oaths.

What started out as an oriental riff on the Golden Rule had become transmogrified into a National Security emblem. It became emblematic of Secrecy.

And all that had happened in the early 1940's, during the Manhattan Project. Twenty years before the production of the movie version of Boulle's novel.

The film version of PLANET OF THE APES -- unlike Boulle's novel -- is a political film about (among other things) the keeping of state secrets. Zaius, in Boulle's novel, is unaware of the fact that humans on Soror had once been the top species. The archaeological discoveries of Cornelius and the brain-stimulating experiments of Helius were proving that Man had once been the intelligent species prior to the role-reversal that led to Simian dominance.

But in the film version, Zaius (and his predecessors) had been -- as Taylor put it -- "the Guardian of the TERRIBLE SECRET..." Zaius has had a whole lifetime devoted to KEEPING THAT SECRET. Not only does he keep that information from the masses, he actively intercedes to suppress the exposing of any newly-discovered evidence brought forth by others (as when he had said -- along with half the Academy -- that Cornelius' interpretation of the artifacts he had found were heretical, and then later had Marcus use explosives to DESTROY EVIDENCE -- to make it impossible for any other person to SEE it for themselves). The Tribunal was held not only to "expose Zira and Cornelius" as dangerous heretics, but also to DISPOSE OF TAYLOR who, himself, is evidence that tends to support the heretical theories.

As Zira had said, "But what about your theory? The existence of someone like Taylor might prove it." The existence of Taylor threatens the Orthodoxy, which is why Zaius says that "This creature's not being tried, he's being disposed of. It is scientific heresy that is being tried here." That's why the President ends the hearing by stating: "This tribunal will examine all the evidence presented here and, in due course, render its verdict as to the proposed indictment and as to the disposition of the deviate in question."

Yeah, Mike, I read the wiki page about the 3 Wise Monkeys. But that site does not tell us everything there is to know about that motif. There is no mention there of the use of the motif by the U.S. War Department for their Oak Ridge facility. There was no mention of its use in PLANET OF THE APES. That wiki page was not a comprehensive overview of the subject. It was moderately informative, but not by any means an all-encompassing treatment of the subject.

In the POTA universe -- the film one, not Boulle's source novel -- the civilization built by the Human Race had self-destructed due to the use of Nuclear Weapons. That possibility didn't exist until nuclear secrets had been divulged to the Soviets by traitors in the employ of the U.S. Department of War. Well-meaning scientists who didn't think that any one nation -- not even the United States of America -- should be the sole possessor of the ultimate weapon. Once the Soviets acquired the Top Secret intel that enabled them to build and test and stockpile tens of thousands of nukes, the stage was set for what most people envisioned as "world war 3" -- a nuclear war.

WHAT YOU SEE HERE... WHAT YOU DO HERE... WHAT YOU HEAR HERE... WHEN YOU LEAVE HERE LET IT STAY HERE.

Somebody seeing those words -- and the image of the Three Wise Monkeys -- as he left his top secret job at Oak Ridge, Tennessee back in 1944-to-1945. .. somebody who subsequently revealed to the "enemy" (i.e. Russia) what was SAID and DONE and HEARD there, became directly responsible for the fact that the next several generations of human beings living on the Earth were living in fear of an imminent nuclear war -- of Mutually Assured Destruction.

The film version of PLANET OF THE APES is about that worst fear becoming a reality. And the audience doesn't even realize it until the very end of the film. Everything the audience has seen up to that point has to be re-evaluated in light of that fact. The ending of the film changes how everything else has to be viewed and interpreted. Including the "Three Wise Monkeys" motif.

Was it put in there just to get a cheap laugh? If you think so, then... whatever. Neil seems to think that PLANET OF THE APES was "just a sci-fi movie". I disagree. It wasn't "just" anything! It was primarily a political satire wearing the trappings of Science Fiction. Like many Twilight Zone episodes. It was possible to say things with SF that were politically (and religiously) dangerous that couldn't be said any other way. Not if they wanted to get away with it, anyway.

Speak No Evil. When Zaius has Cornelius silenced at the end of the film, we see that he is not above using force to prevent the "speaking of evil" -- even if it is the Truth that is "evil". It's one thing for those orangutans in charge of Ape society to have Taylor gagged -- forcibly silenced like a muzzled animal -- but it's a whole 'nuther thing for Zaius to do that to a fellow ape. Yet he does it. What had at first seemed like a humorous detail (the Three Wise Monkeys pose during the Tribunal) takes on a rather Orwellian, darker tone at the end. If we ignore BENEATH and all the other sequels, and imagine only the 1st film, then the implication is that not only will Zira and Cornelius be put on trial for Heresy, but they will be convicted no matter what, and suffer whatever it is that the State can possibly inflict on them. Chances are Lucius, too, will get the shaft. At all costs, Zaius will do what he feels he must do in order to protect and save their society from the danger of following Man down the path of self-destruction. Zaius thinks his actions may indeed be saving the Future. If three innocents have to suffer to ensure that the Future is "saved"... if Knowledge must "stand still"... if the Truth is too dangerous, so as to cause the rulers of society to enshrine a Lie as the official orthodox dogma... then so be it.

Just a sci-fi film? Talkin' monkeys riding horses... ain't it kewl? Yeesh!

Not only was PLANET an enormously entertaining film, it was IMPORTANT. It had something to say. Something profound. It is sometimes dismaying to me that the primary focus at this group seems to be over the merchandise that the APES series generated. Belt buckles... trash cans... life-size posable figures... MEGO figures, etc etc etc. There's a place for such miscellany in POTA fandom, sure... but PLANET was so much more than all that.

Patrick

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 1:31 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Can you think of any goofs in the first POTA film or any cheesy ...

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 3:50 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] OT: "Some day you'll be as tall as a king".

 Happy Father's Day!

 

 

<.html

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Hoknes
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:44 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com; pota@yahoogroups.com; apechronicles@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #45 May 2009 and #46 June 2009 both available to ship

http://www.planetof theapesfanclub. com/

New updates with cover images and article list posted for all our issues

 

In stock and ready to ship

 

APE CHRONICLES #46 (June 2009) - newest issue thick 88 pages !

APE CHRONICLES #45 (May 2009)

 

$9.99 each (includes shipping worldwide) Color cover (b/w interior pages)

 

$4.99 each for PDF file which is downloadable (includes color interior pages and photographs)

 

 

#46 ARTICLES INCLUDE:

STRATIGRAPHY ON THE PLANET OF THE APES article by Patrick Michael Tilton

POTA: The German Magazine Series - Analysis and Index to complete series with many photos and complete cover gallery (21 pages)

TIMELINE: APELINE ALPHA by Tiziano Caliendo

APE ENCYCLOPEDIA: THE DECEPTION (19 pages)

BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES 1970 FILM - COMPLETE CAST AND CREW / BIRTH AND DEATH INDEX

ORIGINAL POTA FAN FICTION - "FICTION" by Rob Morganbesser

THE LAWGIVERS: Biography and Tribute to LEONARD ROSENMAN - POTA composer and conductor

BROKEN SEA "POTA" SCRIPT Chapter 2

INTERVIEW with ROBIN CARLISLE (BROKEN SEA)

CHANOC #833 - Mexican POTA Comic - article by Neil T. Foster

BOOK REVIEW of TIMELINE OF THE PLANET OF THE APES (Author: Rich Handley) by Elaine Robinson

MONKEY BUSINESS - Collecting POTA Memorabilia - POTA collectors Dave Mollard and Tim Parati - Canadian article by David Sanderson

POTA POEM: HOUSE OF THADE by Elaine Robinson

COVER ART by GRAHAM HILL

#45 ARTICLES INCLUDE:

DOCTOR ZIRA: ONE OF A KIND article by Patrick Michael Tilton

APE ENCYCLOPEDIA: THE SURGEON

PLANET OF THE APES 1968 FILM - COMPLETE CAST AND CREW / BIRTH AND DEATH INDEX

ORIGINAL POTA FAN FICTION - FREAK

THE LAWGIVERS: Biography and Tribute to JAMES WHITMORE

BROKEN SEA "POTA" SCRIPT Chapter 1

INTERVIEW with NATASHA LANTHROP (BROKEN SEA)

COVER ART by GRAHAM HILL

<.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:05 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] RE: APE CHRONICLES #45 May 2009 and #46 June 2009 both available to ship

Neil

Has Terry responded to this?

Also, I think a few people already have copies of #46 and it has not been altered…Terry, would you please comment?  You have pissed off a few people here.

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Neil Foster
Sent: Monday, 22 June 2009 9:28 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Cc: pota@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] RE: APE CHRONICLES #45 May 2009 and #46 June 2009 both available to ship

You still have this piece of misinformation on your site for issue #46 Terry:

"CHANOC #833 - Mexican POTA Comic - article by Neil T. Foster"

Can you please remove this ASAP?

I have already told you privately that you were wrong to use a personal email reply as an 'article' without informing me what it would be used for or even asking me if you could use it as such.

I just want to make it clear to anyone thinking of buying the magazine that I did not write an 'article' about this comic. I just replied to a question about it, asked by Mr. Hoknes in a personal email, without any research or checking of facts on my part. It was never intended to be an article and I certainly never gave my permission for it to be used as such.

Thank you,

Neil T. Foster

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@ yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Terry Hoknes
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:44 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ; pota@yahoogroups. com; apechronicles@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #45 May 2009 and #46 June 2009 both available to ship

http://www.planetof theapesfanclub. com/

New updates with cover images and article list posted for all our issues

In stock and ready to ship

APE CHRONICLES #46 (June 2009) - newest issue thick 88 pages !

APE CHRONICLES #45 (May 2009)

$9.99 each (includes shipping worldwide) Color cover (b/w interior pages)

$4.99 each for PDF file which is downloadable (includes color interior pages and photographs)

#46 ARTICLES INCLUDE:

STRATIGRAPHY ON THE PLANET OF THE APES article by Patrick Michael Tilton

POTA: The German Magazine Series - Analysis and Index to complete series with many photos and complete cover gallery (21 pages)

TIMELINE: APELINE ALPHA by Tiziano Caliendo

APE ENCYCLOPEDIA: THE DECEPTION (19 pages)

BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES 1970 FILM - COMPLETE CAST AND CREW / BIRTH AND DEATH INDEX

ORIGINAL POTA FAN FICTION - "FICTION" by Rob Morganbesser

THE LAWGIVERS: Biography and Tribute to LEONARD ROSENMAN - POTA composer and conductor

BROKEN SEA "POTA" SCRIPT Chapter 2

INTERVIEW with ROBIN CARLISLE (BROKEN SEA)

CHANOC #833 - Mexican POTA Comic - article by Neil T. Foster

BOOK REVIEW of TIMELINE OF THE PLANET OF THE APES (Author: Rich Handley) by Elaine Robinson

MONKEY BUSINESS - Collecting POTA Memorabilia - POTA collectors Dave Mollard and Tim Parati - Canadian article by David Sanderson

POTA POEM: HOUSE OF THADE by Elaine Robinson

COVER ART by GRAHAM HILL

#45 ARTICLES INCLUDE:

DOCTOR ZIRA: ONE OF A KIND article by Patrick Michael Tilton

APE ENCYCLOPEDIA: THE SURGEON

PLANET OF THE APES 1968 FILM - COMPLETE CAST AND CREW / BIRTH AND DEATH INDEX

ORIGINAL POTA FAN FICTION - FREAK

THE LAWGIVERS: Biography and Tribute to JAMES WHITMORE

BROKEN SEA "POTA" SCRIPT Chapter 1

INTERVIEW with NATASHA LANTHROP (BROKEN SEA)

COVER ART by GRAHAM HILL

<.html

Has anyone in the group got a copy of #46?

If so could you tell me what cover is used, it should be this one

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/Newcoverversiononeboarder.jpg

I sent this one to Terry on the evening of Wed' 17th June (UK time) so if  people have got copies Terry's been pretty quick printing and dispatching ...

I've got an increasing feeling that copies were already printed... I just hope they weren't with the old cover...

(or with the "article" attributed to Neil)

Terry your making it hard for every one... a bit of communication ...?

Graham.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> No he hasn't, not to my latest private or public emails. This really is
> a dreadful situation to have been put in. I can't believe that no one
> else has an opinion on this either. Totally unbelievable and probably
> the last straw for me with POTA fandom, being treated like this by one
> of the supposedly premier Apes publications, unbelievable.
>
> Neil T. Foster
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Michael & Sally Whitty
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:05 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] RE: APE CHRONICLES #45 May 2009 and #46 June 2009
> both available to ship
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Neil
>
>
>
> Has Terry responded to this?
>
>
>
> Also, I think a few people already have copies of #46 and it has not
> been altered.Terry, would you please comment? You have pissed off a few
> people here.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Neil Foster
> Sent: Monday, 22 June 2009 9:28 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Cc: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] RE: APE CHRONICLES #45 May 2009 and #46 June 2009 both
> available to ship
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> You still have this piece of misinformation on your site for issue #46
> Terry:
>
>
>
> "CHANOC #833 - Mexican POTA Comic - article by Neil T. Foster"
>
>
>
> Can you please remove this ASAP?
>
> I have already told you privately that you were wrong to use a personal
> email reply as an 'article' without informing me what it would be used
> for or even asking me if you could use it as such.
>
>
>
> I just want to make it clear to anyone thinking of buying the magazine
> that I did not write an 'article' about this comic. I just replied to a
> question about it, asked by Mr. Hoknes in a personal email, without any
> research or checking of facts on my part. It was never intended to be an
> article and I certainly never gave my permission for it to be used as
> such.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Neil T. Foster
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Terry Hoknes
> Sent: Monday, June 15, 2009 2:44 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com; pota@yahoogroups.com;
> apechronicles@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #45 May 2009 and #46 June 2009 both
> available to ship
>
> http://www.planetof <http://www.planetoftheapesfanclub.com/>
> theapesfanclub.com/
>
> New updates with cover images and article list posted for all our issues
>
>
>
> In stock and ready to ship
>
>
>
> APE CHRONICLES #46 (June 2009) - newest issue thick 88 pages !
>
> APE CHRONICLES #45 (May 2009)
>
>
>
> $9.99 each (includes shipping worldwide) Color cover (b/w interior
> pages)
>
>
>
> $4.99 each for PDF file which is downloadable (includes color interior
> pages and photographs)
>
>
>
>
>
> #46 ARTICLES INCLUDE:
>
> STRATIGRAPHY ON THE PLANET OF THE APES article by Patrick Michael Tilton
>
> POTA: The German Magazine Series - Analysis and Index to complete series
> with many photos and complete cover gallery (21 pages)
>
> TIMELINE: APELINE ALPHA by Tiziano Caliendo
>
> APE ENCYCLOPEDIA: THE DECEPTION (19 pages)
>
> BENEATH THE PLANET OF THE APES 1970 FILM - COMPLETE CAST AND CREW /
> BIRTH AND DEATH INDEX
>
> ORIGINAL POTA FAN FICTION - "FICTION" by Rob Morganbesser
>
> THE LAWGIVERS: Biography and Tribute to LEONARD ROSENMAN - POTA composer
> and conductor
>
> BROKEN SEA "POTA" SCRIPT Chapter 2
>
> INTERVIEW with ROBIN CARLISLE (BROKEN SEA)
>
> CHANOC #833 - Mexican POTA Comic - article by Neil T. Foster
>
> BOOK REVIEW of TIMELINE OF THE PLANET OF THE APES (Author: Rich Handley)
> by Elaine Robinson
>
> MONKEY BUSINESS - Collecting POTA Memorabilia - POTA collectors Dave
> Mollard and Tim Parati - Canadian article by David Sanderson
>
> POTA POEM: HOUSE OF THADE by Elaine Robinson
>
> COVER ART by GRAHAM HILL
>
> #45 ARTICLES INCLUDE:
>
> DOCTOR ZIRA: ONE OF A KIND article by Patrick Michael Tilton
>
> APE ENCYCLOPEDIA: THE SURGEON
>
> PLANET OF THE APES 1968 FILM - COMPLETE CAST AND CREW / BIRTH AND DEATH
> INDEX
>
> ORIGINAL POTA FAN FICTION - FREAK
>
> THE LAWGIVERS: Biography and Tribute to JAMES WHITMORE
>
> BROKEN SEA "POTA" SCRIPT Chapter 1
>
> INTERVIEW with NATASHA LANTHROP (BROKEN SEA)
>
> COVER ART by GRAHAM HILL
>

.html <.html

http://www.myspace.com/plaidstallions

Should be a week of fun posts on both plaidstallions.com & the myspace page.

.html <.html

As a new fan of the series, I'm looking towards possibly running a RPG based on POTA for my small group. However, I haven't been able to find a more-detailed map of the POTA world, at least just of North America, from coast to coast. I've seen the small map of the NYC/Jersey area, and Urko's wall, but perhaps in a fan almanac or comic book there was a world map created? I hate to bother, I'm asking for a little help on this, just to get a better picture geographically; I know there'll be a lot of blank spaces in this map :)

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Terry Hoknes
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:52 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #46 June 2009 - mistakes and apology

I have been away for the weekend and wanted to publicly address some questions and issues from Neil Foster

 

I wrote Neil earlier this year for some information on a POTA Mexican magazine which he had.  He gave me the information about it in an email

I used his information and put it in a one page article in Ape Chronicles #46

Since all the information came from I gave him credit for writing the article

 

I made mistakes and bad judgement though because

a) I did not clearly tell Neil I was going to use his information for an article

b) I did not tell him he was getting credit for the article

c) I never showed him the article so he was unaware of it before it was actually printed

 

Neil asked me to entirely remove the article from the issue and any references to it.

 

Meanwhile Graham Hill was not happy with the presentation of his cover artwork for #46 so we revised the cover.

 

I had recieved a few advance orders of #46 - and they had already shipped over a week ago.   So there are a few copies out there with Neil's article and Graham's original cover.

 

I have revised the cover artwork with Graham and totally removed Neil's article

 

I am apologing for this mistake and bad assumption on my part that it was ok to go ahead and print the article.

 

I am sorry and want to reassure everyone here that I only mean the best in promoting POTA and I appreciate everything Neil and Graham have done for POTA fandom and for Ape Chronicles in the past!

 

I"ve been putting out Ape Chronicles for 18 years now and have never had a problem before so it came as a surprise.  I am quite embarrased about it and have been quite stressed for a few days now as the last thing I would ever want to do is take advantage of Neil as I admire his work and his help over the years

 

So I will do my best in the future to make sure nothing like this happens again and that I don't presume anything without confirming with others first.

 

I will make one quick statement that if I ask anyone for information or for opinions please presume I am going to repeat what you say in print !    I ask questions because I want to share this information with other POTA fans !  If you specifically do not want to be quoted on anything ever please let me know - thanks

 

On that note I would like to mention that I have made some big changes to Ape Chronicles this year.    We have gone to a more proffesional format with a wonderful glossy book-style cover and I have increased the page count of each issue from 40 to 100.    I'm excited about how great the issues look and I appreciate all the input and help from others.      Ape Chronicles is now a labor of love only as I am now officially going in the hole just by continuing - the printing costs with the new page count and the fancy cover means that when I ship them for $9.99 including shipping that I am not covering my costs.  Ape Chronicles is purely a non-profit magazine.  So anyone who has thought I am just trying to make a quick buck can rest that case now.     If we want to keep POTA Fandom alive we must do whatever it takes - none of us have been in this for the money . We love it and I hope we can all continue to support each other and keep it alive.  Thanks

 

http://www.planetof theapesfanclub. com/apechronicle s46.htm

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Morrison
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:30 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Looking for a semi-official map

As a new fan of the series, I'm looking towards possibly running a RPG based on POTA for my small group. However, I haven't been able to find a more-detailed map of the POTA world, at least just of North America, from coast to coast. I've seen the small map of the NYC/Jersey area, and Urko's wall, but perhaps in a fan almanac or comic book there was a world map created? I hate to bother, I'm asking for a little help on this, just to get a better picture geographically; I know there'll be a lot of blank spaces in this map :)

<.html

Attachments :

GH page 13 (pencils) (extended map).jpg

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Morrison
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:30 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Looking for a semi-official map

As a new fan of the series, I'm looking towards possibly running a RPG based on POTA for my small group. However, I haven't been able to find a more-detailed map of the POTA world, at least just of North America, from coast to coast. I've seen the small map of the NYC/Jersey area, and Urko's wall, but perhaps in a fan almanac or comic book there was a world map created? I hate to bother, I'm asking for a little help on this, just to get a better picture geographically; I know there'll be a lot of blank spaces in this map :)

<.html

Thanks for the explanation Terry,
Best,Graham.


- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:

>
> Thank you for the apology and finally removing the 'article' and all
> references to it Terry. It's just a pity that a few copies got sent out
> with the offending 'article' still in them. Good for those that got them
> I suppose as those ones will now probably become rare collectors items!
>
> Wonder how long it will be before one turns up on eBay? ;-)
>
> Neil T. Foster
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
> Of Terry Hoknes
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 8:52 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #46 June 2009 - mistakes and apology
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have been away for the weekend and wanted to publicly address some
> questions and issues from Neil Foster
>
> I wrote Neil earlier this year for some information on a POTA Mexican
> magazine which he had. He gave me the information about it in an email
> I used his information and put it in a one page article in Ape
> Chronicles #46
> Since all the information came from I gave him credit for writing the
> article
>
> I made mistakes and bad judgement though because
> a) I did not clearly tell Neil I was going to use his information for an
> article
> b) I did not tell him he was getting credit for the article
> c) I never showed him the article so he was unaware of it before it was
> actually printed
>
> Neil asked me to entirely remove the article from the issue and any
> references to it.
>
> Meanwhile Graham Hill was not happy with the presentation of his cover
> artwork for #46 so we revised the cover.
>
> I had recieved a few advance orders of #46 - and they had already
> shipped over a week ago. So there are a few copies out there with
> Neil's article and Graham's original cover.
>
> I have revised the cover artwork with Graham and totally removed Neil's
> article
>
> I am apologing for this mistake and bad assumption on my part that it
> was ok to go ahead and print the article.
>
> I am sorry and want to reassure everyone here that I only mean the best
> in promoting POTA and I appreciate everything Neil and Graham have done
> for POTA fandom and for Ape Chronicles in the past!
>
> I"ve been putting out Ape Chronicles for 18 years now and have never had
> a problem before so it came as a surprise. I am quite embarrased about
> it and have been quite stressed for a few days now as the last thing I
> would ever want to do is take advantage of Neil as I admire his work and
> his help over the years
>
> So I will do my best in the future to make sure nothing like this
> happens again and that I don't presume anything without confirming with
> others first.
>
> I will make one quick statement that if I ask anyone for information or
> for opinions please presume I am going to repeat what you say in print !
> I ask questions because I want to share this information with other POTA
> fans ! If you specifically do not want to be quoted on anything ever
> please let me know - thanks
>
> On that note I would like to mention that I have made some big changes
> to Ape Chronicles this year. We have gone to a more proffesional
> format with a wonderful glossy book-style cover and I have increased the
> page count of each issue from 40 to 100. I'm excited about how great
> the issues look and I appreciate all the input and help from others.
> Ape Chronicles is now a labor of love only as I am now officially going
> in the hole just by continuing - the printing costs with the new page
> count and the fancy cover means that when I ship them for $9.99
> including shipping that I am not covering my costs. Ape Chronicles is
> purely a non-profit magazine. So anyone who has thought I am just
> trying to make a quick buck can rest that case now. If we want to
> keep POTA Fandom alive we must do whatever it takes - none of us have
> been in this for the money . We love it and I hope we can all continue
> to support each other and keep it alive. Thanks
>
> http://www.planetof
> <http://www.planetoftheapesfanclub.com/apechronicles46.htm>
> theapesfanclub.com/apechronicles46.htm
>

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:27 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #46 June 2009 - pistakes and veiled apology AND THE FORBIDDEN ZINE! [2 Attachments]
Importance: High

JohnScrolls

This isn’t about mistakes, or errors in peoples’ date of passing, or spelling errors and you are being quite foolish to dismiss it as such.

This is about integrity, or lack of it.  This is about making a passing comment to someone, then waking up to find it in print with no consultation at all.

This is about finding someone has used your art in a tasteless and tactless way.

This is about not communicating with people and essentially STEALING from people.

This is about finding out too late that this person has already sold and sent some of said magazines.

Much like when we found a CD of Neil’s and my comics on eBay recently, sold by a person who changes his eBay ID all the time (just like Terry does – I wonder why?).  Any idea who that was Terry?

This is about betraying the people who give POTA fandom their all and who don’t charge people to find out the latest news, but you would know a fair bit about that anyway so I am sure I’m not telling you a thing you don’t know.

So yes, it’s time for POTA fans to actually get VALUE for money from a fanzine…. Looks like me and Neil will take up the offer to be the third fanzine. And we won’t be stealing things from fans or lifting pages straight off the net like those other 2 fanzines do – we’ll be NON profit, value for money, and will not print it if it isn’t POTA.

Some of the give-aways will be worth more than the magazine.

You heard it here first POTA fans….

Michael

#53687 From: "shanter2002" <john@...>
Date: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:29 pm
Subject: Re: APE CHRONICLES #46 June 2009 - mistakes and apology shanter2002
Offline
Send Email  

Simian Scrolls described Frank Aletter as 'the late' years before he sadly passed away.We all make mistakes, as the Dalek said climbing off the dustbin.Teething problems and minor snafu's are part of the fanzine experience-- until you've tried doing a fanzine yourself, you can't really know just how big a task it is to get it done and distributed. When I read this message back, I realised I'd spelled 'teething' as 'teeting',so we're all mere,puny, humans.It's great to have Chronicles out there again---we're a two fanzine fandom!Anybody else fancy making it more? John, Scrolls.

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Terry Hoknes
Sent: Tuesday, 23 June 2009 8:52 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups. com; PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #46 June 2009 - mistakes and apology

I have been away for the weekend and wanted to publicly address some questions and issues from Neil Foster

I wrote Neil earlier this year for some information on a POTA Mexican magazine which he had.  He gave me the information about it in an email

I used his information and put it in a one page article in Ape Chronicles #46

Since all the information came from I gave him credit for writing the article

I made mistakes and bad judgement though because

a) I did not clearly tell Neil I was going to use his information for an article

b) I did not tell him he was getting credit for the article

c) I never showed him the article so he was unaware of it before it was actually printed

Neil asked me to entirely remove the article from the issue and any references to it.

Meanwhile Graham Hill was not happy with the presentation of his cover artwork for #46 so we revised the cover.

I had recieved a few advance orders of #46 - and they had already shipped over a week ago.   So there are a few copies out there with Neil's article and Graham's original cover.

I have revised the cover artwork with Graham and totally removed Neil's article

I am apologing for this mistake and bad assumption on my part that it was ok to go ahead and print the article.

I am sorry and want to reassure everyone here that I only mean the best in promoting POTA and I appreciate everything Neil and Graham have done for POTA fandom and for Ape Chronicles in the past!

I"ve been putting out Ape Chronicles for 18 years now and have never had a problem before so it came as a surprise.  I am quite embarrased about it and have been quite stressed for a few days now as the last thing I would ever want to do is take advantage of Neil as I admire his work and his help over the years

So I will do my best in the future to make sure nothing like this happens again and that I don't presume anything without confirming with others first.

I will make one quick statement that if I ask anyone for information or for opinions please presume I am going to repeat what you say in print !    I ask questions because I want to share this information with other POTA fans !  If you specifically do not want to be quoted on anything ever please let me know - thanks

On that note I would like to mention that I have made some big changes to Ape Chronicles this year.    We have gone to a more proffesional format with a wonderful glossy book-style cover and I have increased the page count of each issue from 40 to 100.    I'm excited about how great the issues look and I appreciate all the input and help from others.      Ape Chronicles is now a labor of love only as I am now officially going in the hole just by continuing - the printing costs with the new page count and the fancy cover means that when I ship them for $9.99 including shipping that I am not covering my costs.  Ape Chronicles is purely a non-profit magazine.  So anyone who has thought I am just trying to make a quick buck can rest that case now.     If we want to keep POTA Fandom alive we must do whatever it takes - none of us have been in this for the money . We love it and I hope we can all continue to support each other and keep it alive.  Thanks

http://www.planetof theapesfanclub. com/apechronicle s46.htm

<.html

Hi Adam. It's not quite the same thing, but if it's any use, there's two maps that appear in the cartoon series. They only cover a small area around New York (it was New York, wasn't it?). You can find them in the 'Files' section, in the folder named 'Return Paintings', and they're titled 'Humanoid Caves map' and 'Hidden Valley map'.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> Welcome to the group Adam, always nice to meet more Apes fans. As far as
> I know those two maps you mentioned are the only ones there are but if
> any more are out there I'm sure someone will chime in and let you know.
>
> Neil T. Foster
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
> Of Adam Morrison
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:30 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Looking for a semi-official map
>
>
>
>
>
> As a new fan of the series, I'm looking towards possibly running a RPG
> based on POTA for my small group. However, I haven't been able to find a
> more-detailed map of the POTA world, at least just of North America,
> from coast to coast. I've seen the small map of the NYC/Jersey area, and
> Urko's wall, but perhaps in a fan almanac or comic book there was a
> world map created? I hate to bother, I'm asking for a little help on
> this, just to get a better picture geographically; I know there'll be a
> lot of blank spaces in this map :)
>

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Why, THERE I am!!

Jessica.

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 12:49 AM, Neil Foster < ntfoster@...> wrote:

[Attachment(s) from Neil Foster included below]

I know this won't be any help but for the Going Home comic we did a few years ago, Michael Whitty and I did slightly extend the Urko wall map to include the San Francisco area:

Neil T. Foster

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Adam Morrison
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 4:30 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Looking for a semi-official map

As a new fan of the series, I'm looking towards possibly running a RPG based on POTA for my small group. However, I haven't been able to find a more-detailed map of the POTA world, at least just of North America, from coast to coast. I've seen the small map of the NYC/Jersey area, and Urko's wall, but perhaps in a fan almanac or comic book there was a world map created? I hate to bother, I'm asking for a little help on this, just to get a better picture geographically; I know there'll be a lot of blank spaces in this map :)

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael & Sally Whitty" <sallywhitty@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Much like when we found a CD of Neil's and my comics on eBay recently, sold
> by a person who changes his eBay ID all the time 

 

The above is so WRONG, on so many levels, that it boggles belief.

I'm sure all members on both the main Yahoo groups would never see this as anything other than theft and would have nothing to do with it.

Who ever is responsible should hang their head in shame.

Graham.

 

Any more info or is it too early?

Best,Graham.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> Damn, you beat me to it, I just sent a copy of the cover to both groups!
>
> Neil T. Foster
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Michael & Sally Whitty
> Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 9:27 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #46 June 2009 - pistakes and veiled
> apology AND THE FORBIDDEN ZINE! [2 Attachments]
> Importance: High
>
>
> [Attachment(s) <> from Michael & Sally Whitty included below]
>
>
>
>
>
>
> JohnScrolls
>
>
>
> This isn't about mistakes, or errors in peoples' date of passing, or
> spelling errors and you are being quite foolish to dismiss it as such.
>
>
>
> This is about integrity, or lack of it. This is about making a passing
> comment to someone, then waking up to find it in print with no
> consultation at all.
>
>
>
> This is about finding someone has used your art in a tasteless and
> tactless way.
>
>
>
> This is about not communicating with people and essentially STEALING
> from people.
>
>
>
> This is about finding out too late that this person has already sold and
> sent some of said magazines.
>
>
>
> Much like when we found a CD of Neil's and my comics on eBay recently,
> sold by a person who changes his eBay ID all the time (just like Terry
> does - I wonder why?). Any idea who that was Terry?
>
>
>
> This is about betraying the people who give POTA fandom their all and
> who don't charge people to find out the latest news, but you would know
> a fair bit about that anyway so I am sure I'm not telling you a thing
> you don't know.
>
>
>
> So yes, it's time for POTA fans to actually get VALUE for money from a
> fanzine.. Looks like me and Neil will take up the offer to be the third
> fanzine. And we won't be stealing things from fans or lifting pages
> straight off the net like those other 2 fanzines do - we'll be NON
> profit, value for money, and will not print it if it isn't POTA.
>
>
>
> Some of the give-aways will be worth more than the magazine.
>
>
>
> You heard it here first POTA fans..
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> #53687 From: "shanter2002" john@
> Date: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:29 pm
> Subject: <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/message/53687> Re:
> APE CHRONICLES #46 June 2009 - mistakes and apology shanter2002
> <http://profiles.yahoo.com/shanter2002>
> <ymsgr:sendIM?shanter2002> OfflineOffline
>
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/post?postID=Pq5fEJAOQ86CyYoz9
> yzOAXWiVViqWHqlOeZy263-6F6bUkqxhiO8XJardK4nIRFLNB_dCDDMJkC0i0cLldB0Fn_cw
> qtAgwqTtnw1hE4Fp-W057QB> Send EmailSend Email
>
>
> Simian Scrolls described Frank Aletter as 'the late' years before he
> sadly
> passed away.We all make mistakes, as the Dalek said climbing off the
> dustbin.Teething problems and minor snafu's are part of the fanzine
> experience--until you've tried doing a fanzine yourself, you can't
> really know
> just how big a task it is to get it done and distributed.When I read
> this
> message back, I realised I'd spelled 'teething' as 'teeting',so we're
> all
> mere,puny, humans.It's great to have Chronicles out there again---we're
> a two
> fanzine fandom!Anybody else fancy making it more? John, Scrolls.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Terry Hoknes
> Sent: Tuesday, 23 June 2009 8:52 AM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] APE CHRONICLES #46 June 2009 - mistakes and apology
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I have been away for the weekend and wanted to publicly address some
> questions and issues from Neil Foster
>
>
>
> I wrote Neil earlier this year for some information on a POTA Mexican
> magazine which he had. He gave me the information about it in an email
>
> I used his information and put it in a one page article in Ape
> Chronicles #46
>
> Since all the information came from I gave him credit for writing the
> article
>
>
>
> I made mistakes and bad judgement though because
>
> a) I did not clearly tell Neil I was going to use his information for an
> article
>
> b) I did not tell him he was getting credit for the article
>
> c) I never showed him the article so he was unaware of it before it was
> actually printed
>
>
>
> Neil asked me to entirely remove the article from the issue and any
> references to it.
>
>
>
> Meanwhile Graham Hill was not happy with the presentation of his cover
> artwork for #46 so we revised the cover.
>
>
>
> I had recieved a few advance orders of #46 - and they had already
> shipped over a week ago. So there are a few copies out there with
> Neil's article and Graham's original cover.
>
>
>
> I have revised the cover artwork with Graham and totally removed Neil's
> article
>
>
>
> I am apologing for this mistake and bad assumption on my part that it
> was ok to go ahead and print the article.
>
>
>
> I am sorry and want to reassure everyone here that I only mean the best
> in promoting POTA and I appreciate everything Neil and Graham have done
> for POTA fandom and for Ape Chronicles in the past!
>
>
>
> I"ve been putting out Ape Chronicles for 18 years now and have never had
> a problem before so it came as a surprise. I am quite embarrased about
> it and have been quite stressed for a few days now as the last thing I
> would ever want to do is take advantage of Neil as I admire his work and
> his help over the years
>
>
>
> So I will do my best in the future to make sure nothing like this
> happens again and that I don't presume anything without confirming with
> others first.
>
>
>
> I will make one quick statement that if I ask anyone for information or
> for opinions please presume I am going to repeat what you say in print !
> I ask questions because I want to share this information with other POTA
> fans ! If you specifically do not want to be quoted on anything ever
> please let me know - thanks
>
>
>
> On that note I would like to mention that I have made some big changes
> to Ape Chronicles this year. We have gone to a more proffesional
> format with a wonderful glossy book-style cover and I have increased the
> page count of each issue from 40 to 100. I'm excited about how great
> the issues look and I appreciate all the input and help from others.
> Ape Chronicles is now a labor of love only as I am now officially going
> in the hole just by continuing - the printing costs with the new page
> count and the fancy cover means that when I ship them for $9.99
> including shipping that I am not covering my costs. Ape Chronicles is
> purely a non-profit magazine. So anyone who has thought I am just
> trying to make a quick buck can rest that case now. If we want to
> keep POTA Fandom alive we must do whatever it takes - none of us have
> been in this for the money . We love it and I hope we can all continue
> to support each other and keep it alive. Thanks
>
>
>
> http://www.planetof
> <http://www.planetoftheapesfanclub.com/apechronicles46.htm>
> theapesfanclub.com/apechronicles46.htm
>

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