We've had a few enquiries about the second issue of The Forbidden Zine.

 

The first issue sold out quickly, and Neil and I received excellent feedback.

 

However, it's not a walk in the park to get together and now that Neil and I are writing children's books the Forbidden Zine is on the backburner.

 

Not to mention the devastating flood that buried Neil's house in toxic river water for 4 days and destroyed a large part of my collectibles that I was storing at Neil's during the Queensland floods earlier this year.

 

I can tell you a few things though….

 

(1)      Price – a lot of people said $20 was too much to fork out and while all agreed it was value for money, most wanted us to se if we could reduce the price.  Each issue cpst me over $20 to print and postage cost me $15 an issue so as you can imagine it was an enormpus economic burden.  This time we'll be doing a VERY limited (probably 10!) run of full colour issues and 100 Black and White issues (with full colour cover).

(2)      The "BACK STORY" will remain a 5 page comic (this is 100% complete!);

(3)      The MAIN STORY will be reduced to an 8 page comic (this is 50% complete).

 

As for when, well it's looking like after the new movie and possibly even around Christmas time.

 

I'll be trying to get the latest from Drew, there will be an article with interviews from BOOM! And some awesome prizes again, and we look at fan made films plus a few more articles to be completed.

 

All I can promise is again it will be worth waiting for.

 

Michael

 

,___

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Tim <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> I want to be first in line to get one of those ten!!!
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:52 AM, "Michael & Sally" <mswhitty@...> wrote:
>
> > We’ve had a few enquiries about the second issue of The Forbidden Zine.
> >
> >
> >
> > The first issue sold out quickly, and Neil and I received excellent feedback.
> >
> >
> >
> > However, it’s not a walk in the park to get together and now that Neil and I are writing children’s books the Forbidden Zine is on the backburner.
> >
> >
> >
> > Not to mention the devastating flood that buried Neil’s house in toxic river water for 4 days and destroyed a large part of my collectibles that I was storing at Neil’s during the Queensland floods earlier this year.
> >
> >
> >
> > I can tell you a few things though….
> >
> >
> >
> > (1) Price â€" a lot of people said $20 was too much to fork out and while all agreed it was value for money, most wanted us to se if we could reduce the price. Each issue cpst me over $20 to print and postage cost me $15 an issue so as you can imagine it was an enormpus economic burden. This time we’ll be doing a VERY limited (probably 10!) run of full colour issues and 100 Black and White issues (with full colour cover).
> >
> > (2) The “BACK STORY” will remain a 5 page comic (this is 100% complete!);
> >
> > (3) The MAIN STORY will be reduced to an 8 page comic (this is 50% complete).
> >
> >
> >
> > As for when, well it’s looking like after the new movie and possibly even around Christmas time.
> >
> >
> >
> > I’ll be trying to get the latest from Drew, there will be an article with interviews from BOOM! And some awesome prizes again, and we look at fan made films plus a few more articles to be completed.
> >
> >
> >
> > All I can promise is again it will be worth waiting for.
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > ,___
> >
> >
>

I want to be first in line to get one of those ten!!! 

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:52 AM, "Michael & Sally" < mswhitty@...> wrote:

 

We've had a few enquiries about the second issue of The Forbidden Zine.

 

The first issue sold out quickly, and Neil and I received excellent feedback.

 

However, it's not a walk in the park to get together and now that Neil and I are writing children's books the Forbidden Zine is on the backburner.

 

Not to mention the devastating flood that buried Neil's house in toxic river water for 4 days and destroyed a large part of my collectibles that I was storing at Neil's during the Queensland floods earlier this year.

 

I can tell you a few things though….

 

(1)      Price – a lot of people said $20 was too much to fork out and while all agreed it was value for money, most wanted us to se if we could reduce the price.  Each issue cpst me over $20 to print and postage cost me $15 an issue so as you can imagine it was an enormpus economic burden.  This time we'll be doing a VERY limited (probably 10!) run of full colour issues and 100 Black and White issues (with full colour cover).

(2)      The "BACK STORY" will remain a 5 page comic (this is 100% complete!);

(3)      The MAIN STORY will be reduced to an 8 page comic (this is 50% complete).

 

As for when, well it's looking like after the new movie and possibly even around Christmas time.

 

I'll be trying to get the latest from Drew, there will be an article with interviews from BOOM! And some awesome prizes again, and we look at fan made films plus a few more articles to be completed.

 

All I can promise is again it will be worth waiting for.

 

Michael

 

,___

Then I'm second!

Dario

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 22, 2011, at 8:48 AM, Tim < apefan23@...> wrote:

I want to be first in line to get one of those ten!!! 

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:52 AM, "Michael & Sally" < mswhitty@...> wrote:

 

We've had a few enquiries about the second issue of The Forbidden Zine.

 

The first issue sold out quickly, and Neil and I received excellent feedback.

 

However, it's not a walk in the park to get together and now that Neil and I are writing children's books the Forbidden Zine is on the backburner.

 

Not to mention the devastating flood that buried Neil's house in toxic river water for 4 days and destroyed a large part of my collectibles that I was storing at Neil's during the Queensland floods earlier this year.

 

I can tell you a few things though….

 

(1)      Price – a lot of people said $20 was too much to fork out and while all agreed it was value for money, most wanted us to se if we could reduce the price.  Each issue cpst me over $20 to print and postage cost me $15 an issue so as you can imagine it was an enormpus economic burden.  This time we'll be doing a VERY limited (probably 10!) run of full colour issues and 100 Black and White issues (with full colour cover).

(2)      The "BACK STORY" will remain a 5 page comic (this is 100% complete!);

(3)      The MAIN STORY will be reduced to an 8 page comic (this is 50% complete).

 

As for when, well it's looking like after the new movie and possibly even around Christmas time.

 

I'll be trying to get the latest from Drew, there will be an article with interviews from BOOM! And some awesome prizes again, and we look at fan made films plus a few more articles to be completed.

 

All I can promise is again it will be worth waiting for.

 

Michael

 

,___

On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 6:49 AM, Dario <darios@...> wrote:

Doh!

OK, third!

Dario

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 22, 2011, at 9:47 AM, Dario <darios@...> wrote:

Then I'm second!

Dario

Sent from my iPad

On Apr 22, 2011, at 8:48 AM, Tim <apefan23@...> wrote:

I want to be first in line to get one of those ten!!!

Tim

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 22, 2011, at 2:52 AM, "Michael & Sally" < mswhitty@...> wrote:

We've had a few enquiries about the second issue of The Forbidden Zine.

The first issue sold out quickly, and Neil and I received excellent feedback.

However, it's not a walk in the park to get together and now that Neil and I are writing children's books the Forbidden Zine is on the backburner.

Not to mention the devastating flood that buried Neil's house in toxic river water for 4 days and destroyed a large part of my collectibles that I was storing at Neil's during the Queensland floods earlier this year.

I can tell you a few things though….

(1) Price – a lot of people said $20 was too much to fork out and while all agreed it was value for money, most wanted us to se if we could reduce the price. Each issue cpst me over $20 to print and postage cost me $15 an issue so as you can imagine it was an enormpus economic burden. This time we'll be doing a VERY limited (probably 10!) run of full colour issues and 100 Black and White issues (with full colour cover).

(2) The "BACK STORY" will remain a 5 page comic (this is 100% complete!);

(3) The MAIN STORY will be reduced to an 8 page comic (this is 50% complete).

As for when, well it's looking like after the new movie and possibly even around Christmas time.

I'll be trying to get the latest from Drew, there will be an article with interviews from BOOM! And some awesome prizes again, and we look at fan made films plus a few more articles to be completed.

All I can promise is again it will be worth waiting for.

Michael

,___

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, HollowedOut <at_deaths_door@...> wrote:
>
> Fifthies!! WOW... that sounds like a third grader wanitng to ge tin line for
> some ice cream or something!
>
> -Chris
>
>
>
>
>

asims.JPG

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> "When reports of the script and the project got out, it started being labeled a reboot and a prequel and then a remake of "Conquest" and stuff. That was surprising to us, because we never really thought of it that way". - - - "Rise of the POTA" screenwriter Rick Jaffa
>
>
> Thanks to an early bootleg script and the moniker "prequel", there's been some confusion about whether "Rise" fits in with the other POTA movies. Basically, there are references from the earlier films but these were designed as "Easter eggs" for the fans. Director Rupert Wyatt says, "It's not a continuation of the other films; it's an original story. It does satisfy the people who enjoy those films. The point of this film is to achieve that and to bring that fan base into this film exactly like "Batman (Begins)"... (That) took it back to the beginning and started in a very different vein and mood, that's what we wanted to do with this... I certainly wouldn't say that we are looking to reference stylistically the other films".
> Though it's a different take, they wanted to show respect for what had gone before. Screenwriter Rick Jaffa (who considers the original POTA one of his favorite films) says that "we tried to be as loyal to the mythology of those movies so that fans would feel like great care was taken in trying to apply some of that to this story to the degree that we could. At some point you just have to make your own movie... there's lots of fun stuff for "Apes" fans specifically that we put in there". Mostly that seems to be names like Caesar, Landon and Dodge, as well as names of those who made the originals (Jacobs, Maurice, Franklin). And even places are named after characters (the café at the Gen Sys lab is called the Nova Java Café). But they tried to strike a balance with that stuff. Producer Dylan Clark says, "The goal was to make this one a realistic story. There is a line you could go past where it starts to become silly, but we were aware of it".
> There is a moment in the bootleg script that got fans speculating though, involving an astronaut Taylor's preparation to blast off in a ship called the Icarus (on TV in the background). As of August 2010 it sounds like they were still planning to go through with it. But Jaffa just says, "The thing about the Icarus is that it's a big nod to the past and for fans. Quite frankly, it opens up great possibilities for coming back in time into what, hopefully, we've set up to bring back some of the other narratives and mythologies. It's interesting. At one point, one of my friends said, "It sounds like you guys are trying to fix the original". And we weren't really at all, but we were really aware of a lot of small details that the original had, that maybe we could explain or set that up, so that maybe the fans would go, "Oh my god, I see what they're doing. They're setting this up for the future". But the reality is, ultimately we just had to make it work as a contemporary story".
> As with how the apes take over, the Taylor story could be an avenue for future stories. And if there are no sequels, it's possible fans could connect "Rise" to the original film as to how the apes evolved (an alternate timeline changed by "Escape"). But it won't be a perfect fit since the original Taylor wasn't a 21st Century astronaut. And there's all those familiar names in both tales. I like the name Hank Landon as a nod to the original, but maybe it's stretching things if Hank Landon and his son Dodge are responsible for inspiring the POTA that Landon and Dodge discover 20 centuries later (20 centuries!). Personally, I think it's more respectful to let the originals RIP (except when we want to watch them) and give these new ones the chance to do their own thing. Rupert Wyatt wants fans of the originals to feel welcome but he can't "taylor" it for the fans who want the original makeup or the original stories continued: "My whole outlook on it is you're never going to please everybody... if you try to please everybody you're going to please nobody... I think it means nothing to replicate".
> OK, so "Rise" is a different beast. But what do it's makers think of the originals? Jaffa loved the original as indicated by the touches in his script. Rupert Wyatt wasn't a big fan when he signed on: "I loved it in the same way as everyone did... the beauty of POTA, the original one, is that it's high camp, but it's classic as a result". He's diplomatic about Burton's version: "I think everyone has to acknowledge that the FX and prosthetics in that film are pretty phenomenal, but for some reason, it was a story that played out in a world that wasn't similar to our world, so we couldn't really connect to it. In a funny way, it was much more faithful to Pierre Boulle's novel than the original film". There's no connection between "Rise" and the POTA2001 "universe", but don't be surprised if there's a few "Easter eggs" for it.
> As for the story in the new movie, Wyatt says, "(In the original films, it) was apes being brought into domestic households and being enslaved, but we've taken a different approach, which is a more scientific approach with how the apes evolved. I actually find that more plausible". Besides being more "realistic", it doesn't sound like the new apes will be as political. Producer Dylan Clark: "The original came out in the 1960's, so there is a natural connection to social upheaval and race relations and so forth. There are also other themes that I would argue that it's about, which would be Man's hubris. Man's hubris really got him in the end... Our social issues have changed. Obviously race is still a big issue, but it's changed. But we do play a lot with Man's hubris".
> The star of the movie, James Franco, also seems to dig the more realistic/less political assessment. He says that, "one of the differences is that the others seem to be much more about commentaries on class relations, inter-species relations, all of those things. Whereas ours... (is) much more of a "Frankenstein" story". Franco has seen the original as well as the "Behind the POTA" documentary (like Charlton Heston, he hasn't partook of the sequels). He doesn't seem that impressed with the classic makeup: "I assume the original "Apes" movie has kind of a cult appeal but you look at the masks and you say, "Well... I can't believe they are having serious philosophical conversations and they're wearing those crazy masks" but it's interesting on that level. But reality, or the idea of apes talking, has moved forward...not only have the way that they depicted apes changed and become more realistic but the storyline tries to be grounded in a more realistic world where it's at least conceivable that this could happen".
> One aspect of the original that Rupert Wyatt seems interested in is religion. Wyatt told Ed Gross, "My approach has been to imagine this a bit like a Bible story in a way. This is a story that's going to be told by generations of chimpanzees as the passing of stories down from father to son in the future civilization of the apes".
> http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/scifimediazone/news?a=24483
> He says even the weather cooperated with that aspect: "We were fortunate when shooting that it was a terrific summer in Vancouver. While certain story points may play out that are darker in tone, the lighting and the feel is a really nice counterpoint. In many ways, I think that's what leads to the film feeling very much like a fairy tale or a Bible story... it's very important that people understand that this is a film that is a story. It's the baby in the basket that's floating down the river".
> Perchance Wyatt is thinking of this as a Moses story (despite the name Caesar)? After all, Caesar is saved from a slaughter by Franco the Benevolent and raised in a life of privilege (for a chimp) before fate returns him to his own "people" (they're not people, you know) and he leads them (maybe *cough*) to freedom. Two Heston reboots for the price of one!
>

>:(

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael & Sally" <mswhitty@...> wrote:
>
> I agree Moxy – It's all syntax and the BUZZ word with Burton was
> "Re-invention" remember? It seems to be all about avoiding the admission
> that they have to go back on old stories…..
>
>
>
> At least it's not Romeo and Juliet again! ;)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of
> Neil Moxham
> Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2011 1:40 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible spoilers)
>
>
>
>
>
> Interesting that they mention Pierre Boulle's novel - it seems like this
> film will have less connection to the novel than any of the previous films
> (no character names, not even any talking monkeys!). In fact they only
> vaguely similar part is the exposition at the end of the book explaining how
> the apes took over, and even that is quite different. Apart from using the
> 'POTA' name, they mightn't even need to credit Boulle for this one.
>
> And despite saying it's not a remake of Conquest, or anything to do with the
> originals, the whole concept of an ape revolution taking over planet Earth
> was invented by Serling/Wilson/Dehn to explain/adapt Boulle's premise. So
> whether they realise it or not, this is really a movie
> based-on-a-sequel-to-a-movie-adaptation-of-the-novel.
>
> That's not a criticism of the movie though, just that they should
> acknowledge that even if it this a new take on the story, it IS essentially
> a retelling of an earlier idea. No?
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> , "Jeff K."
> <veetus@> wrote:
> >
> > "When reports of the script and the project got out, it started being
> labeled a reboot and a prequel and then a remake of "Conquest" and stuff.
> That was surprising to us, because we never really thought of it that way".
> - - - "Rise of the POTA" screenwriter Rick Jaffa
> >
> >
> > Thanks to an early bootleg script and the moniker "prequel", there's been
> some confusion about whether "Rise" fits in with the other POTA movies.
> Basically, there are references from the earlier films but these were
> designed as "Easter eggs" for the fans. Director Rupert Wyatt says, "It's
> not a continuation of the other films; it's an original story. It does
> satisfy the people who enjoy those films. The point of this film is to
> achieve that and to bring that fan base into this film exactly like "Batman
> (Begins)"... (That) took it back to the beginning and started in a very
> different vein and mood, that's what we wanted to do with this... I
> certainly wouldn't say that we are looking to reference stylistically the
> other films".
> > Though it's a different take, they wanted to show respect for what had
> gone before. Screenwriter Rick Jaffa (who considers the original POTA one of
> his favorite films) says that "we tried to be as loyal to the mythology of
> those movies so that fans would feel like great care was taken in trying to
> apply some of that to this story to the degree that we could. At some point
> you just have to make your own movie... there's lots of fun stuff for "Apes"
> fans specifically that we put in there". Mostly that seems to be names like
> Caesar, Landon and Dodge, as well as names of those who made the originals
> (Jacobs, Maurice, Franklin). And even places are named after characters (the
> café at the Gen Sys lab is called the Nova Java Café). But they tried to
> strike a balance with that stuff. Producer Dylan Clark says, "The goal was
> to make this one a realistic story. There is a line you could go past where
> it starts to become silly, but we were aware of it".
> > There is a moment in the bootleg script that got fans speculating though,
> involving an astronaut Taylor's preparation to blast off in a ship called
> the Icarus (on TV in the background). As of August 2010 it sounds like they
> were still planning to go through with it. But Jaffa just says, "The thing
> about the Icarus is that it's a big nod to the past and for fans. Quite
> frankly, it opens up great possibilities for coming back in time into what,
> hopefully, we've set up to bring back some of the other narratives and
> mythologies. It's interesting. At one point, one of my friends said, "It
> sounds like you guys are trying to fix the original". And we weren't really
> at all, but we were really aware of a lot of small details that the original
> had, that maybe we could explain or set that up, so that maybe the fans
> would go, "Oh my god, I see what they're doing. They're setting this up for
> the future". But the reality is, ultimately we just had to make it work as a
> contemporary story".
> > As with how the apes take over, the Taylor story could be an avenue for
> future stories. And if there are no sequels, it's possible fans could
> connect "Rise" to the original film as to how the apes evolved (an alternate
> timeline changed by "Escape"). But it won't be a perfect fit since the
> original Taylor wasn't a 21st Century astronaut. And there's all those
> familiar names in both tales. I like the name Hank Landon as a nod to the
> original, but maybe it's stretching things if Hank Landon and his son Dodge
> are responsible for inspiring the POTA that Landon and Dodge discover 20
> centuries later (20 centuries!). Personally, I think it's more respectful to
> let the originals RIP (except when we want to watch them) and give these new
> ones the chance to do their own thing. Rupert Wyatt wants fans of the
> originals to feel welcome but he can't "taylor" it for the fans who want the
> original makeup or the original stories continued: "My whole outlook on it
> is you're never going to please everybody... if you try to please everybody
> you're going to please nobody... I think it means nothing to replicate".
> > OK, so "Rise" is a different beast. But what do it's makers think of the
> originals? Jaffa loved the original as indicated by the touches in his
> script. Rupert Wyatt wasn't a big fan when he signed on: "I loved it in the
> same way as everyone did... the beauty of POTA, the original one, is that
> it's high camp, but it's classic as a result". He's diplomatic about
> Burton's version: "I think everyone has to acknowledge that the FX and
> prosthetics in that film are pretty phenomenal, but for some reason, it was
> a story that played out in a world that wasn't similar to our world, so we
> couldn't really connect to it. In a funny way, it was much more faithful to
> Pierre Boulle's novel than the original film". There's no connection between
> "Rise" and the POTA2001 "universe", but don't be surprised if there's a few
> "Easter eggs" for it.
> > As for the story in the new movie, Wyatt says, "(In the original films,
> it) was apes being brought into domestic households and being enslaved, but
> we've taken a different approach, which is a more scientific approach with
> how the apes evolved. I actually find that more plausible". Besides being
> more "realistic", it doesn't sound like the new apes will be as political.
> Producer Dylan Clark: "The original came out in the 1960's, so there is a
> natural connection to social upheaval and race relations and so forth. There
> are also other themes that I would argue that it's about, which would be
> Man's hubris. Man's hubris really got him in the end... Our social issues
> have changed. Obviously race is still a big issue, but it's changed. But we
> do play a lot with Man's hubris".
> > The star of the movie, James Franco, also seems to dig the more
> realistic/less political assessment. He says that, "one of the differences
> is that the others seem to be much more about commentaries on class
> relations, inter-species relations, all of those things. Whereas ours...
> (is) much more of a "Frankenstein" story". Franco has seen the original as
> well as the "Behind the POTA" documentary (like Charlton Heston, he hasn't
> partook of the sequels). He doesn't seem that impressed with the classic
> makeup: "I assume the original "Apes" movie has kind of a cult appeal but
> you look at the masks and you say, "Well... I can't believe they are having
> serious philosophical conversations and they're wearing those crazy masks"
> but it's interesting on that level. But reality, or the idea of apes
> talking, has moved forward...not only have the way that they depicted apes
> changed and become more realistic but the storyline tries to be grounded in
> a more realistic world where it's at least conceivable that this could
> happen".
> > One aspect of the original that Rupert Wyatt seems interested in is
> religion. Wyatt told Ed Gross, "My approach has been to imagine this a bit
> like a Bible story in a way. This is a story that's going to be told by
> generations of chimpanzees as the passing of stories down from father to son
> in the future civilization of the apes".
> > http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/scifimediazone/news?a=24483
> > He says even the weather cooperated with that aspect: "We were fortunate
> when shooting that it was a terrific summer in Vancouver. While certain
> story points may play out that are darker in tone, the lighting and the feel
> is a really nice counterpoint. In many ways, I think that's what leads to
> the film feeling very much like a fairy tale or a Bible story... it's very
> important that people understand that this is a film that is a story. It's
> the baby in the basket that's floating down the river".
> > Perchance Wyatt is thinking of this as a Moses story (despite the name
> Caesar)? After all, Caesar is saved from a slaughter by Franco the
> Benevolent and raised in a life of privilege (for a chimp) before fate
> returns him to his own "people" (they're not people, you know) and he leads
> them (maybe *cough*) to freedom. Two Heston reboots for the price of one!
> >
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> There was "Genus Homo" (1950) before Boulle.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus_Homo_(novel)
>
> And they're calling it POTA and using names like Landon and Taylor, so I don't think they're trying to cover up their tracks.
>
>
> From: Michael & Sally
> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 12:20 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible spoilers)
>
>
>
>
> I agree Moxy - It's all syntax and the BUZZ word with Burton was "Re-invention" remember? It seems to be all about avoiding the admission that they have to go back on old stories...
>
>
>
> At least it's not Romeo and Juliet again! ;)
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Neil Moxham
> Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2011 1:40 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible spoilers)
>
>
>
>
>
> Interesting that they mention Pierre Boulle's novel - it seems like this film will have less connection to the novel than any of the previous films (no character names, not even any talking monkeys!). In fact they only vaguely similar part is the exposition at the end of the book explaining how the apes took over, and even that is quite different. Apart from using the 'POTA' name, they mightn't even need to credit Boulle for this one.
>
> And despite saying it's not a remake of Conquest, or anything to do with the originals, the whole concept of an ape revolution taking over planet Earth was invented by Serling/Wilson/Dehn to explain/adapt Boulle's premise. So whether they realise it or not, this is really a movie based-on-a-sequel-to-a-movie-adaptation-of-the-novel.
>
> That's not a criticism of the movie though, just that they should acknowledge that even if it this a new take on the story, it IS essentially a retelling of an earlier idea. No?
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> >
> > "When reports of the script and the project got out, it started being labeled a reboot and a prequel and then a remake of "Conquest" and stuff. That was surprising to us, because we never really thought of it that way". - - - "Rise of the POTA" screenwriter Rick Jaffa
> >
> >
> > Thanks to an early bootleg script and the moniker "prequel", there's been some confusion about whether "Rise" fits in with the other POTA movies. Basically, there are references from the earlier films but these were designed as "Easter eggs" for the fans. Director Rupert Wyatt says, "It's not a continuation of the other films; it's an original story. It does satisfy the people who enjoy those films. The point of this film is to achieve that and to bring that fan base into this film exactly like "Batman (Begins)"... (That) took it back to the beginning and started in a very different vein and mood, that's what we wanted to do with this... I certainly wouldn't say that we are looking to reference stylistically the other films".
> > Though it's a different take, they wanted to show respect for what had gone before. Screenwriter Rick Jaffa (who considers the original POTA one of his favorite films) says that "we tried to be as loyal to the mythology of those movies so that fans would feel like great care was taken in trying to apply some of that to this story to the degree that we could. At some point you just have to make your own movie... there's lots of fun stuff for "Apes" fans specifically that we put in there". Mostly that seems to be names like Caesar, Landon and Dodge, as well as names of those who made the originals (Jacobs, Maurice, Franklin). And even places are named after characters (the café at the Gen Sys lab is called the Nova Java Café). But they tried to strike a balance with that stuff. Producer Dylan Clark says, "The goal was to make this one a realistic story. There is a line you could go past where it starts to become silly, but we were aware of it".
> > There is a moment in the bootleg script that got fans speculating though, involving an astronaut Taylor's preparation to blast off in a ship called the Icarus (on TV in the background). As of August 2010 it sounds like they were still planning to go through with it. But Jaffa just says, "The thing about the Icarus is that it's a big nod to the past and for fans. Quite frankly, it opens up great possibilities for coming back in time into what, hopefully, we've set up to bring back some of the other narratives and mythologies. It's interesting. At one point, one of my friends said, "It sounds like you guys are trying to fix the original". And we weren't really at all, but we were really aware of a lot of small details that the original had, that maybe we could explain or set that up, so that maybe the fans would go, "Oh my god, I see what they're doing. They're setting this up for the future". But the reality is, ultimately we just had to make it work as a contemporary story".
> > As with how the apes take over, the Taylor story could be an avenue for future stories. And if there are no sequels, it's possible fans could connect "Rise" to the original film as to how the apes evolved (an alternate timeline changed by "Escape"). But it won't be a perfect fit since the original Taylor wasn't a 21st Century astronaut. And there's all those familiar names in both tales. I like the name Hank Landon as a nod to the original, but maybe it's stretching things if Hank Landon and his son Dodge are responsible for inspiring the POTA that Landon and Dodge discover 20 centuries later (20 centuries!). Personally, I think it's more respectful to let the originals RIP (except when we want to watch them) and give these new ones the chance to do their own thing. Rupert Wyatt wants fans of the originals to feel welcome but he can't "taylor" it for the fans who want the original makeup or the original stories continued: "My whole outlook on it is you're never going to please everybody... if you try to please everybody you're going to please nobody... I think it means nothing to replicate".
> > OK, so "Rise" is a different beast. But what do it's makers think of the originals? Jaffa loved the original as indicated by the touches in his script. Rupert Wyatt wasn't a big fan when he signed on: "I loved it in the same way as everyone did... the beauty of POTA, the original one, is that it's high camp, but it's classic as a result". He's diplomatic about Burton's version: "I think everyone has to acknowledge that the FX and prosthetics in that film are pretty phenomenal, but for some reason, it was a story that played out in a world that wasn't similar to our world, so we couldn't really connect to it. In a funny way, it was much more faithful to Pierre Boulle's novel than the original film". There's no connection between "Rise" and the POTA2001 "universe", but don't be surprised if there's a few "Easter eggs" for it.
> > As for the story in the new movie, Wyatt says, "(In the original films, it) was apes being brought into domestic households and being enslaved, but we've taken a different approach, which is a more scientific approach with how the apes evolved. I actually find that more plausible". Besides being more "realistic", it doesn't sound like the new apes will be as political. Producer Dylan Clark: "The original came out in the 1960's, so there is a natural connection to social upheaval and race relations and so forth. There are also other themes that I would argue that it's about, which would be Man's hubris. Man's hubris really got him in the end... Our social issues have changed. Obviously race is still a big issue, but it's changed. But we do play a lot with Man's hubris".
> > The star of the movie, James Franco, also seems to dig the more realistic/less political assessment. He says that, "one of the differences is that the others seem to be much more about commentaries on class relations, inter-species relations, all of those things. Whereas ours... (is) much more of a "Frankenstein" story". Franco has seen the original as well as the "Behind the POTA" documentary (like Charlton Heston, he hasn't partook of the sequels). He doesn't seem that impressed with the classic makeup: "I assume the original "Apes" movie has kind of a cult appeal but you look at the masks and you say, "Well... I can't believe they are having serious philosophical conversations and they're wearing those crazy masks" but it's interesting on that level. But reality, or the idea of apes talking, has moved forward...not only have the way that they depicted apes changed and become more realistic but the storyline tries to be grounded in a more realistic world where it's at least conceivable that this could happen".
> > One aspect of the original that Rupert Wyatt seems interested in is religion. Wyatt told Ed Gross, "My approach has been to imagine this a bit like a Bible story in a way. This is a story that's going to be told by generations of chimpanzees as the passing of stories down from father to son in the future civilization of the apes".
> > http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/scifimediazone/news?a=24483
> > He says even the weather cooperated with that aspect: "We were fortunate when shooting that it was a terrific summer in Vancouver. While certain story points may play out that are darker in tone, the lighting and the feel is a really nice counterpoint. In many ways, I think that's what leads to the film feeling very much like a fairy tale or a Bible story... it's very important that people understand that this is a film that is a story. It's the baby in the basket that's floating down the river".
> > Perchance Wyatt is thinking of this as a Moses story (despite the name Caesar)? After all, Caesar is saved from a slaughter by Franco the Benevolent and raised in a life of privilege (for a chimp) before fate returns him to his own "people" (they're not people, you know) and he leads them (maybe *cough*) to freedom. Two Heston reboots for the price of one!
> >
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Moxham <neilmoxham@...>
Date: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:25 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible spoilers)

> Huh - I hadn't heard of that before. I must try to track down a copy.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
> >
> > There was "Genus Homo" (1950) before Boulle.
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus_Homo_(novel)
> >
> > And they're calling it POTA and using names like Landon and
> Taylor, so I don't think they're trying to cover up their tracks.
> >
> >
> > From: Michael & Sally
> > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 12:20 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible
> spoilers)>
> >
> >
> >
> > I agree Moxy - It's all syntax and the BUZZ word with Burton was
> "Re-invention" remember? It seems to be all about avoiding the
> admission that they have to go back on old stories...
> >
> >
> >
> > At least it's not Romeo and Juliet again! ;)
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------
> >
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
> Behalf Of Neil Moxham
> > Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2011 1:40 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible
> spoilers)>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Interesting that they mention Pierre Boulle's novel - it seems
> like this film will have less connection to the novel than any of
> the previous films (no character names, not even any talking
> monkeys!). In fact they only vaguely similar part is the exposition
> at the end of the book explaining how the apes took over, and even
> that is quite different. Apart from using the 'POTA' name, they
> mightn't even need to credit Boulle for this one.
> >
> > And despite saying it's not a remake of Conquest, or anything to
> do with the originals, the whole concept of an ape revolution
> taking over planet Earth was invented by Serling/Wilson/Dehn to
> explain/adapt Boulle's premise. So whether they realise it or not,
> this is really a movie based-on-a-sequel-to-a-movie-adaptation-of-
> the-novel.
> >
> > That's not a criticism of the movie though, just that they should
> acknowledge that even if it this a new take on the story, it IS
> essentially a retelling of an earlier idea. No?
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> > >
> > > "When reports of the script and the project got out, it started
> being labeled a reboot and a prequel and then a remake of
> "Conquest" and stuff. That was surprising to us, because we never
> really thought of it that way". - - - "Rise of the POTA"
> screenwriter Rick Jaffa
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks to an early bootleg script and the moniker "prequel",
> there's been some confusion about whether "Rise" fits in with the
> other POTA movies. Basically, there are references from the earlier
> films but these were designed as "Easter eggs" for the fans.
> Director Rupert Wyatt says, "It's not a continuation of the other
> films; it's an original story. It does satisfy the people who enjoy
> those films. The point of this film is to achieve that and to bring
> that fan base into this film exactly like "Batman (Begins)"...
> (That) took it back to the beginning and started in a very
> different vein and mood, that's what we wanted to do with this... I
> certainly wouldn't say that we are looking to reference
> stylistically the other films".
> > > Though it's a different take, they wanted to show respect for
> what had gone before. Screenwriter Rick Jaffa (who considers the
> original POTA one of his favorite films) says that "we tried to be
> as loyal to the mythology of those movies so that fans would feel
> like great care was taken in trying to apply some of that to this
> story to the degree that we could. At some point you just have to
> make your own movie... there's lots of fun stuff for "Apes" fans
> specifically that we put in there". Mostly that seems to be names
> like Caesar, Landon and Dodge, as well as names of those who made
> the originals (Jacobs, Maurice, Franklin). And even places are
> named after characters (the café at the Gen Sys lab is called the
> Nova Java Café). But they tried to strike a balance with that
> stuff. Producer Dylan Clark says, "The goal was to make this one a
> realistic story. There is a line you could go past where it starts
> to become silly, but we were aware of it".
> > > There is a moment in the bootleg script that got fans
> speculating though, involving an astronaut Taylor's preparation to
> blast off in a ship called the Icarus (on TV in the background). As
> of August 2010 it sounds like they were still planning to go
> through with it. But Jaffa just says, "The thing about the Icarus
> is that it's a big nod to the past and for fans. Quite frankly, it
> opens up great possibilities for coming back in time into what,
> hopefully, we've set up to bring back some of the other narratives
> and mythologies. It's interesting. At one point, one of my friends
> said, "It sounds like you guys are trying to fix the original". And
> we weren't really at all, but we were really aware of a lot of
> small details that the original had, that maybe we could explain or
> set that up, so that maybe the fans would go, "Oh my god, I see
> what they're doing. They're setting this up for the future". But
> the reality is, ultimately we just had to make it work as a
> contemporary story".
> > > As with how the apes take over, the Taylor story could be an
> avenue for future stories. And if there are no sequels, it's
> possible fans could connect "Rise" to the original film as to how
> the apes evolved (an alternate timeline changed by "Escape"). But
> it won't be a perfect fit since the original Taylor wasn't a 21st
> Century astronaut. And there's all those familiar names in both
> tales. I like the name Hank Landon as a nod to the original, but
> maybe it's stretching things if Hank Landon and his son Dodge are
> responsible for inspiring the POTA that Landon and Dodge discover
> 20 centuries later (20 centuries!). Personally, I think it's more
> respectful to let the originals RIP (except when we want to watch
> them) and give these new ones the chance to do their own thing.
> Rupert Wyatt wants fans of the originals to feel welcome but he
> can't "taylor" it for the fans who want the original makeup or the
> original stories continued: "My whole outlook on it is you're never
> going to please everybody... if you try to please everybody you're
> going to please nobody... I think it means nothing to replicate".
> > > OK, so "Rise" is a different beast. But what do it's makers
> think of the originals? Jaffa loved the original as indicated by
> the touches in his script. Rupert Wyatt wasn't a big fan when he
> signed on: "I loved it in the same way as everyone did... the
> beauty of POTA, the original one, is that it's high camp, but it's
> classic as a result". He's diplomatic about Burton's version: "I
> think everyone has to acknowledge that the FX and prosthetics in
> that film are pretty phenomenal, but for some reason, it was a
> story that played out in a world that wasn't similar to our world,
> so we couldn't really connect to it. In a funny way, it was much
> more faithful to Pierre Boulle's novel than the original film".
> There's no connection between "Rise" and the POTA2001 "universe",
> but don't be surprised if there's a few "Easter eggs" for it.
> > > As for the story in the new movie, Wyatt says, "(In the
> original films, it) was apes being brought into domestic households
> and being enslaved, but we've taken a different approach, which is
> a more scientific approach with how the apes evolved. I actually
> find that more plausible". Besides being more "realistic", it
> doesn't sound like the new apes will be as political. Producer
> Dylan Clark: "The original came out in the 1960's, so there is a
> natural connection to social upheaval and race relations and so
> forth. There are also other themes that I would argue that it's
> about, which would be Man's hubris. Man's hubris really got him in
> the end... Our social issues have changed. Obviously race is still
> a big issue, but it's changed. But we do play a lot with Man's
> hubris".> > The star of the movie, James Franco, also seems to dig
> the more realistic/less political assessment. He says that, "one of
> the differences is that the others seem to be much more about
> commentaries on class relations, inter-species relations, all of
> those things. Whereas ours... (is) much more of a "Frankenstein"
> story". Franco has seen the original as well as the "Behind the
> POTA" documentary (like Charlton Heston, he hasn't partook of the
> sequels). He doesn't seem that impressed with the classic makeup:
> "I assume the original "Apes" movie has kind of a cult appeal but
> you look at the masks and you say, "Well... I can't believe they
> are having serious philosophical conversations and they're wearing
> those crazy masks" but it's interesting on that level. But reality,
> or the idea of apes talking, has moved forward...not only have the
> way that they depicted apes changed and become more realistic but
> the storyline tries to be grounded in a more realistic world where
> it's at least conceivable that this could happen".
> > > One aspect of the original that Rupert Wyatt seems interested
> in is religion. Wyatt told Ed Gross, "My approach has been to
> imagine this a bit like a Bible story in a way. This is a story
> that's going to be told by generations of chimpanzees as the
> passing of stories down from father to son in the future
> civilization of the apes".
> > >
> http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/scifimediazone/news?a=24483
> > > He says even the weather cooperated with that aspect: "We were
> fortunate when shooting that it was a terrific summer in Vancouver.
> While certain story points may play out that are darker in tone,
> the lighting and the feel is a really nice counterpoint. In many
> ways, I think that's what leads to the film feeling very much like
> a fairy tale or a Bible story... it's very important that people
> understand that this is a film that is a story. It's the baby in
> the basket that's floating down the river".
> > > Perchance Wyatt is thinking of this as a Moses story (despite
> the name Caesar)? After all, Caesar is saved from a slaughter by
> Franco the Benevolent and raised in a life of privilege (for a
> chimp) before fate returns him to his own "people" (they're not
> people, you know) and he leads them (maybe *cough*) to freedom. Two
> Heston reboots for the price of one!
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
>
>
> I read it a while back and wrote a more detailed review, and one from a
> POTA fan P.O.V:
>
> http://www.theendoftheuniverse.ca/node/1299
>
> Dario
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Neil Moxham <neilmoxham@...>
> Date: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:25 pm
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible spoilers)
>
> > Huh - I hadn't heard of that before. I must try to track down a copy.
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> > >
> > > There was "Genus Homo" (1950) before Boulle.
> > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus_Homo_(novel)
> > >
> > > And they're calling it POTA and using names like Landon and
> > Taylor, so I don't think they're trying to cover up their tracks.
> > >
> > >
> > > From: Michael & Sally
> > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 12:20 PM
> > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible
> > spoilers)>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree Moxy - It's all syntax and the BUZZ word with Burton was
> > "Re-invention" remember? It seems to be all about avoiding the
> > admission that they have to go back on old stories...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > At least it's not Romeo and Juliet again! ;)
> > >
> > > Michael
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --------------
> > >
> > > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
> > Behalf Of Neil Moxham
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2011 1:40 AM
> > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible
> > spoilers)>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Interesting that they mention Pierre Boulle's novel - it seems
> > like this film will have less connection to the novel than any of
> > the previous films (no character names, not even any talking
> > monkeys!). In fact they only vaguely similar part is the exposition
> > at the end of the book explaining how the apes took over, and even
> > that is quite different. Apart from using the 'POTA' name, they
> > mightn't even need to credit Boulle for this one.
> > >
> > > And despite saying it's not a remake of Conquest, or anything to
> > do with the originals, the whole concept of an ape revolution
> > taking over planet Earth was invented by Serling/Wilson/Dehn to
> > explain/adapt Boulle's premise. So whether they realise it or not,
> > this is really a movie based-on-a-sequel-to-a-movie-adaptation-of-
> > the-novel.
> > >
> > > That's not a criticism of the movie though, just that they should
> > acknowledge that even if it this a new take on the story, it IS
> > essentially a retelling of an earlier idea. No?
> > >
> > > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "When reports of the script and the project got out, it started
> > being labeled a reboot and a prequel and then a remake of
> > "Conquest" and stuff. That was surprising to us, because we never
> > really thought of it that way". - - - "Rise of the POTA"
> > screenwriter Rick Jaffa
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks to an early bootleg script and the moniker "prequel",
> > there's been some confusion about whether "Rise" fits in with the
> > other POTA movies. Basically, there are references from the earlier
> > films but these were designed as "Easter eggs" for the fans.
> > Director Rupert Wyatt says, "It's not a continuation of the other
> > films; it's an original story. It does satisfy the people who enjoy
> > those films. The point of this film is to achieve that and to bring
> > that fan base into this film exactly like "Batman (Begins)"...
> > (That) took it back to the beginning and started in a very
> > different vein and mood, that's what we wanted to do with this... I
> > certainly wouldn't say that we are looking to reference
> > stylistically the other films".
> > > > Though it's a different take, they wanted to show respect for
> > what had gone before. Screenwriter Rick Jaffa (who considers the
> > original POTA one of his favorite films) says that "we tried to be
> > as loyal to the mythology of those movies so that fans would feel
> > like great care was taken in trying to apply some of that to this
> > story to the degree that we could. At some point you just have to
> > make your own movie... there's lots of fun stuff for "Apes" fans
> > specifically that we put in there". Mostly that seems to be names
> > like Caesar, Landon and Dodge, as well as names of those who made
> > the originals (Jacobs, Maurice, Franklin). And even places are
> > named after characters (the café at the Gen Sys lab is called the
> > Nova Java Café). But they tried to strike a balance with that
> > stuff. Producer Dylan Clark says, "The goal was to make this one a
> > realistic story. There is a line you could go past where it starts
> > to become silly, but we were aware of it".
> > > > There is a moment in the bootleg script that got fans
> > speculating though, involving an astronaut Taylor's preparation to
> > blast off in a ship called the Icarus (on TV in the background). As
> > of August 2010 it sounds like they were still planning to go
> > through with it. But Jaffa just says, "The thing about the Icarus
> > is that it's a big nod to the past and for fans. Quite frankly, it
> > opens up great possibilities for coming back in time into what,
> > hopefully, we've set up to bring back some of the other narratives
> > and mythologies. It's interesting. At one point, one of my friends
> > said, "It sounds like you guys are trying to fix the original". And
> > we weren't really at all, but we were really aware of a lot of
> > small details that the original had, that maybe we could explain or
> > set that up, so that maybe the fans would go, "Oh my god, I see
> > what they're doing. They're setting this up for the future". But
> > the reality is, ultimately we just had to make it work as a
> > contemporary story".
> > > > As with how the apes take over, the Taylor story could be an
> > avenue for future stories. And if there are no sequels, it's
> > possible fans could connect "Rise" to the original film as to how
> > the apes evolved (an alternate timeline changed by "Escape"). But
> > it won't be a perfect fit since the original Taylor wasn't a 21st
> > Century astronaut. And there's all those familiar names in both
> > tales. I like the name Hank Landon as a nod to the original, but
> > maybe it's stretching things if Hank Landon and his son Dodge are
> > responsible for inspiring the POTA that Landon and Dodge discover
> > 20 centuries later (20 centuries!). Personally, I think it's more
> > respectful to let the originals RIP (except when we want to watch
> > them) and give these new ones the chance to do their own thing.
> > Rupert Wyatt wants fans of the originals to feel welcome but he
> > can't "taylor" it for the fans who want the original makeup or the
> > original stories continued: "My whole outlook on it is you're never
> > going to please everybody... if you try to please everybody you're
> > going to please nobody... I think it means nothing to replicate".
> > > > OK, so "Rise" is a different beast. But what do it's makers
> > think of the originals? Jaffa loved the original as indicated by
> > the touches in his script. Rupert Wyatt wasn't a big fan when he
> > signed on: "I loved it in the same way as everyone did... the
> > beauty of POTA, the original one, is that it's high camp, but it's
> > classic as a result". He's diplomatic about Burton's version: "I
> > think everyone has to acknowledge that the FX and prosthetics in
> > that film are pretty phenomenal, but for some reason, it was a
> > story that played out in a world that wasn't similar to our world,
> > so we couldn't really connect to it. In a funny way, it was much
> > more faithful to Pierre Boulle's novel than the original film".
> > There's no connection between "Rise" and the POTA2001 "universe",
> > but don't be surprised if there's a few "Easter eggs" for it.
> > > > As for the story in the new movie, Wyatt says, "(In the
> > original films, it) was apes being brought into domestic households
> > and being enslaved, but we've taken a different approach, which is
> > a more scientific approach with how the apes evolved. I actually
> > find that more plausible". Besides being more "realistic", it
> > doesn't sound like the new apes will be as political. Producer
> > Dylan Clark: "The original came out in the 1960's, so there is a
> > natural connection to social upheaval and race relations and so
> > forth. There are also other themes that I would argue that it's
> > about, which would be Man's hubris. Man's hubris really got him in
> > the end... Our social issues have changed. Obviously race is still
> > a big issue, but it's changed. But we do play a lot with Man's
> > hubris".> > The star of the movie, James Franco, also seems to dig
> > the more realistic/less political assessment. He says that, "one of
> > the differences is that the others seem to be much more about
> > commentaries on class relations, inter-species relations, all of
> > those things. Whereas ours... (is) much more of a "Frankenstein"
> > story". Franco has seen the original as well as the "Behind the
> > POTA" documentary (like Charlton Heston, he hasn't partook of the
> > sequels). He doesn't seem that impressed with the classic makeup:
> > "I assume the original "Apes" movie has kind of a cult appeal but
> > you look at the masks and you say, "Well... I can't believe they
> > are having serious philosophical conversations and they're wearing
> > those crazy masks" but it's interesting on that level. But reality,
> > or the idea of apes talking, has moved forward...not only have the
> > way that they depicted apes changed and become more realistic but
> > the storyline tries to be grounded in a more realistic world where
> > it's at least conceivable that this could happen".
> > > > One aspect of the original that Rupert Wyatt seems interested
> > in is religion. Wyatt told Ed Gross, "My approach has been to
> > imagine this a bit like a Bible story in a way. This is a story
> > that's going to be told by generations of chimpanzees as the
> > passing of stories down from father to son in the future
> > civilization of the apes".
> > > >
> > http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/scifimediazone/news?a=24483
> > > > He says even the weather cooperated with that aspect: "We were
> > fortunate when shooting that it was a terrific summer in Vancouver.
> > While certain story points may play out that are darker in tone,
> > the lighting and the feel is a really nice counterpoint. In many
> > ways, I think that's what leads to the film feeling very much like
> > a fairy tale or a Bible story... it's very important that people
> > understand that this is a film that is a story. It's the baby in
> > the basket that's floating down the river".
> > > > Perchance Wyatt is thinking of this as a Moses story (despite
> > the name Caesar)? After all, Caesar is saved from a slaughter by
> > Franco the Benevolent and raised in a life of privilege (for a
> > chimp) before fate returns him to his own "people" (they're not
> > people, you know) and he leads them (maybe *cough*) to freedom. Two
> > Heston reboots for the price of one!
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil Moxham <neilmoxham@...>
Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 7:57 am
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible spoilers)

> Thanks Dario, you already answered my next question about whether
> Boulle could have seen it. I just bought a copy.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I read it a while back and wrote a more detailed review, and one
> from a
> > POTA fan P.O.V:
> >
> > http://www.theendoftheuniverse.ca/node/1299
> >
> > Dario
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Neil Moxham <neilmoxham@...>
> > Date: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:25 pm
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible
> spoilers)>
> > > Huh - I hadn't heard of that before. I must try to track down a
> copy.> >
> > > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There was "Genus Homo" (1950) before Boulle.
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus_Homo_(novel)
> > > >
> > > > And they're calling it POTA and using names like Landon and
> > > Taylor, so I don't think they're trying to cover up their tracks.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Michael & Sally
> > > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 12:20 PM
> > > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs
> (possible
> > > spoilers)>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree Moxy - It's all syntax and the BUZZ word with Burton
> was
> > > "Re-invention" remember? It seems to be all about avoiding the
> > > admission that they have to go back on old stories...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At least it's not Romeo and Juliet again! ;)
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > > --------------
> > > >
> > > > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Neil Moxham
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2011 1:40 AM
> > > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible
> > > spoilers)>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Interesting that they mention Pierre Boulle's novel - it
> seems
> > > like this film will have less connection to the novel than any
> of
> > > the previous films (no character names, not even any talking
> > > monkeys!). In fact they only vaguely similar part is the
> exposition
> > > at the end of the book explaining how the apes took over, and
> even
> > > that is quite different. Apart from using the 'POTA' name, they
> > > mightn't even need to credit Boulle for this one.
> > > >
> > > > And despite saying it's not a remake of Conquest, or anything
> to
> > > do with the originals, the whole concept of an ape revolution
> > > taking over planet Earth was invented by Serling/Wilson/Dehn to
> > > explain/adapt Boulle's premise. So whether they realise it or
> not,
> > > this is really a movie based-on-a-sequel-to-a-movie-adaptation-
> of-
> > > the-novel.
> > > >
> > > > That's not a criticism of the movie though, just that they
> should
> > > acknowledge that even if it this a new take on the story, it IS
> > > essentially a retelling of an earlier idea. No?
> > > >
> > > > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "When reports of the script and the project got out, it
> started
> > > being labeled a reboot and a prequel and then a remake of
> > > "Conquest" and stuff. That was surprising to us, because we
> never
> > > really thought of it that way". - - - "Rise of the POTA"
> > > screenwriter Rick Jaffa
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks to an early bootleg script and the moniker
> "prequel",
> > > there's been some confusion about whether "Rise" fits in with
> the
> > > other POTA movies. Basically, there are references from the
> earlier
> > > films but these were designed as "Easter eggs" for the fans.
> > > Director Rupert Wyatt says, "It's not a continuation of the
> other
> > > films; it's an original story. It does satisfy the people who
> enjoy
> > > those films. The point of this film is to achieve that and to
> bring
> > > that fan base into this film exactly like "Batman (Begins)"...
> > > (That) took it back to the beginning and started in a very
> > > different vein and mood, that's what we wanted to do with
> this... I
> > > certainly wouldn't say that we are looking to reference
> > > stylistically the other films".
> > > > > Though it's a different take, they wanted to show respect
> for
> > > what had gone before. Screenwriter Rick Jaffa (who considers
> the
> > > original POTA one of his favorite films) says that "we tried to
> be
> > > as loyal to the mythology of those movies so that fans would
> feel
> > > like great care was taken in trying to apply some of that to
> this
> > > story to the degree that we could. At some point you just have
> to
> > > make your own movie... there's lots of fun stuff for "Apes"
> fans
> > > specifically that we put in there". Mostly that seems to be
> names
> > > like Caesar, Landon and Dodge, as well as names of those who
> made
> > > the originals (Jacobs, Maurice, Franklin). And even places are
> > > named after characters (the café at the Gen Sys lab is called
> the
> > > Nova Java Café). But they tried to strike a balance with that
> > > stuff. Producer Dylan Clark says, "The goal was to make this
> one a
> > > realistic story. There is a line you could go past where it
> starts
> > > to become silly, but we were aware of it".
> > > > > There is a moment in the bootleg script that got fans
> > > speculating though, involving an astronaut Taylor's preparation
> to
> > > blast off in a ship called the Icarus (on TV in the
> background). As
> > > of August 2010 it sounds like they were still planning to go
> > > through with it. But Jaffa just says, "The thing about the
> Icarus
> > > is that it's a big nod to the past and for fans. Quite frankly,
> it
> > > opens up great possibilities for coming back in time into what,
> > > hopefully, we've set up to bring back some of the other
> narratives
> > > and mythologies. It's interesting. At one point, one of my
> friends
> > > said, "It sounds like you guys are trying to fix the original".
> And
> > > we weren't really at all, but we were really aware of a lot of
> > > small details that the original had, that maybe we could
> explain or
> > > set that up, so that maybe the fans would go, "Oh my god, I see
> > > what they're doing. They're setting this up for the future".
> But
> > > the reality is, ultimately we just had to make it work as a
> > > contemporary story".
> > > > > As with how the apes take over, the Taylor story could be
> an
> > > avenue for future stories. And if there are no sequels, it's
> > > possible fans could connect "Rise" to the original film as to
> how
> > > the apes evolved (an alternate timeline changed by "Escape").
> But
> > > it won't be a perfect fit since the original Taylor wasn't a
> 21st
> > > Century astronaut. And there's all those familiar names in both
> > > tales. I like the name Hank Landon as a nod to the original,
> but
> > > maybe it's stretching things if Hank Landon and his son Dodge
> are
> > > responsible for inspiring the POTA that Landon and Dodge
> discover
> > > 20 centuries later (20 centuries!). Personally, I think it's
> more
> > > respectful to let the originals RIP (except when we want to
> watch
> > > them) and give these new ones the chance to do their own thing.
> > > Rupert Wyatt wants fans of the originals to feel welcome but he
> > > can't "taylor" it for the fans who want the original makeup or
> the
> > > original stories continued: "My whole outlook on it is you're
> never
> > > going to please everybody... if you try to please everybody
> you're
> > > going to please nobody... I think it means nothing to replicate".
> > > > > OK, so "Rise" is a different beast. But what do it's makers
> > > think of the originals? Jaffa loved the original as indicated
> by
> > > the touches in his script. Rupert Wyatt wasn't a big fan when
> he
> > > signed on: "I loved it in the same way as everyone did... the
> > > beauty of POTA, the original one, is that it's high camp, but
> it's
> > > classic as a result". He's diplomatic about Burton's version:
> "I
> > > think everyone has to acknowledge that the FX and prosthetics
> in
> > > that film are pretty phenomenal, but for some reason, it was a
> > > story that played out in a world that wasn't similar to our
> world,
> > > so we couldn't really connect to it. In a funny way, it was
> much
> > > more faithful to Pierre Boulle's novel than the original film".
> > > There's no connection between "Rise" and the POTA2001
> "universe",
> > > but don't be surprised if there's a few "Easter eggs" for it.
> > > > > As for the story in the new movie, Wyatt says, "(In the
> > > original films, it) was apes being brought into domestic
> households
> > > and being enslaved, but we've taken a different approach, which
> is
> > > a more scientific approach with how the apes evolved. I
> actually
> > > find that more plausible". Besides being more "realistic", it
> > > doesn't sound like the new apes will be as political. Producer
> > > Dylan Clark: "The original came out in the 1960's, so there is
> a
> > > natural connection to social upheaval and race relations and so
> > > forth. There are also other themes that I would argue that it's
> > > about, which would be Man's hubris. Man's hubris really got him
> in
> > > the end... Our social issues have changed. Obviously race is
> still
> > > a big issue, but it's changed. But we do play a lot with Man's
> > > hubris".> > The star of the movie, James Franco, also seems to
> dig
> > > the more realistic/less political assessment. He says that,
> "one of
> > > the differences is that the others seem to be much more about
> > > commentaries on class relations, inter-species relations, all
> of
> > > those things. Whereas ours... (is) much more of a
> "Frankenstein"
> > > story". Franco has seen the original as well as the "Behind the
> > > POTA" documentary (like Charlton Heston, he hasn't partook of
> the
> > > sequels). He doesn't seem that impressed with the classic
> makeup:
> > > "I assume the original "Apes" movie has kind of a cult appeal
> but
> > > you look at the masks and you say, "Well... I can't believe
> they
> > > are having serious philosophical conversations and they're
> wearing
> > > those crazy masks" but it's interesting on that level. But
> reality,
> > > or the idea of apes talking, has moved forward...not only have
> the
> > > way that they depicted apes changed and become more realistic
> but
> > > the storyline tries to be grounded in a more realistic world
> where
> > > it's at least conceivable that this could happen".
> > > > > One aspect of the original that Rupert Wyatt seems
> interested
> > > in is religion. Wyatt told Ed Gross, "My approach has been to
> > > imagine this a bit like a Bible story in a way. This is a story
> > > that's going to be told by generations of chimpanzees as the
> > > passing of stories down from father to son in the future
> > > civilization of the apes".
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/scifimediazone/news?a=24483
> > > > > He says even the weather cooperated with that aspect: "We
> were
> > > fortunate when shooting that it was a terrific summer in
> Vancouver.
> > > While certain story points may play out that are darker in
> tone,
> > > the lighting and the feel is a really nice counterpoint. In
> many
> > > ways, I think that's what leads to the film feeling very much
> like
> > > a fairy tale or a Bible story... it's very important that
> people
> > > understand that this is a film that is a story. It's the baby
> in
> > > the basket that's floating down the river".
> > > > > Perchance Wyatt is thinking of this as a Moses story
> (despite
> > > the name Caesar)? After all, Caesar is saved from a slaughter
> by
> > > Franco the Benevolent and raised in a life of privilege (for a
> > > chimp) before fate returns him to his own "people" (they're not
> > > people, you know) and he leads them (maybe *cough*) to freedom.
> Two
> > > Heston reboots for the price of one!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff K." <veetus@...>
Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 9:45 am
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible spoilers)

> Well, it's possible though Boulle doesn't seem the kind that
> would read sci-fi. And it wasn't everywhere like it is today
> (especially in France). Boulle says he got the idea during a trip
> to the zoo. It's possible the POTA screenwriters saw it since
> they're the ones who put POTA on Earth. Rod Serling read a lot of
> sci-fi in his "Twilight Zone" days.
>
>
> From: Neil Moxham
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 4:57 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible spoilers)
>
>
>
> Thanks Dario, you already answered my next question about whether
> Boulle could have seen it. I just bought a copy.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I read it a while back and wrote a more detailed review, and one
> from a
> > POTA fan P.O.V:
> >
> > http://www.theendoftheuniverse.ca/node/1299
> >
> > Dario
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Neil Moxham <neilmoxham@...>
> > Date: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:25 pm
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible
> spoilers)>
> > > Huh - I hadn't heard of that before. I must try to track down a
> copy.> >
> > > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > There was "Genus Homo" (1950) before Boulle.
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus_Homo_(novel)
> > > >
> > > > And they're calling it POTA and using names like Landon and
> > > Taylor, so I don't think they're trying to cover up their tracks.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: Michael & Sally
> > > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 12:20 PM
> > > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs
> (possible
> > > spoilers)>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree Moxy - It's all syntax and the BUZZ word with Burton
> was
> > > "Re-invention" remember? It seems to be all about avoiding the
> > > admission that they have to go back on old stories...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > At least it's not Romeo and Juliet again! ;)
> > > >
> > > > Michael
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > > --------------
> > > >
> > > > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Neil Moxham
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2011 1:40 AM
> > > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible
> > > spoilers)>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Interesting that they mention Pierre Boulle's novel - it
> seems
> > > like this film will have less connection to the novel than any
> of
> > > the previous films (no character names, not even any talking
> > > monkeys!). In fact they only vaguely similar part is the
> exposition
> > > at the end of the book explaining how the apes took over, and
> even
> > > that is quite different. Apart from using the 'POTA' name, they
> > > mightn't even need to credit Boulle for this one.
> > > >
> > > > And despite saying it's not a remake of Conquest, or anything
> to
> > > do with the originals, the whole concept of an ape revolution
> > > taking over planet Earth was invented by Serling/Wilson/Dehn to
> > > explain/adapt Boulle's premise. So whether they realise it or
> not,
> > > this is really a movie based-on-a-sequel-to-a-movie-adaptation-
> of-
> > > the-novel.
> > > >
> > > > That's not a criticism of the movie though, just that they
> should
> > > acknowledge that even if it this a new take on the story, it IS
> > > essentially a retelling of an earlier idea. No?
> > > >
> > > > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "When reports of the script and the project got out, it
> started
> > > being labeled a reboot and a prequel and then a remake of
> > > "Conquest" and stuff. That was surprising to us, because we
> never
> > > really thought of it that way". - - - "Rise of the POTA"
> > > screenwriter Rick Jaffa
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks to an early bootleg script and the moniker
> "prequel",
> > > there's been some confusion about whether "Rise" fits in with
> the
> > > other POTA movies. Basically, there are references from the
> earlier
> > > films but these were designed as "Easter eggs" for the fans.
> > > Director Rupert Wyatt says, "It's not a continuation of the
> other
> > > films; it's an original story. It does satisfy the people who
> enjoy
> > > those films. The point of this film is to achieve that and to
> bring
> > > that fan base into this film exactly like "Batman (Begins)"...
> > > (That) took it back to the beginning and started in a very
> > > different vein and mood, that's what we wanted to do with
> this... I
> > > certainly wouldn't say that we are looking to reference
> > > stylistically the other films".
> > > > > Though it's a different take, they wanted to show respect
> for
> > > what had gone before. Screenwriter Rick Jaffa (who considers
> the
> > > original POTA one of his favorite films) says that "we tried to
> be
> > > as loyal to the mythology of those movies so that fans would
> feel
> > > like great care was taken in trying to apply some of that to
> this
> > > story to the degree that we could. At some point you just have
> to
> > > make your own movie... there's lots of fun stuff for "Apes"
> fans
> > > specifically that we put in there". Mostly that seems to be
> names
> > > like Caesar, Landon and Dodge, as well as names of those who
> made
> > > the originals (Jacobs, Maurice, Franklin). And even places are
> > > named after characters (the café at the Gen Sys lab is called
> the
> > > Nova Java Café). But they tried to strike a balance with that
> > > stuff. Producer Dylan Clark says, "The goal was to make this
> one a
> > > realistic story. There is a line you could go past where it
> starts
> > > to become silly, but we were aware of it".
> > > > > There is a moment in the bootleg script that got fans
> > > speculating though, involving an astronaut Taylor's preparation
> to
> > > blast off in a ship called the Icarus (on TV in the
> background). As
> > > of August 2010 it sounds like they were still planning to go
> > > through with it. But Jaffa just says, "The thing about the
> Icarus
> > > is that it's a big nod to the past and for fans. Quite frankly,
> it
> > > opens up great possibilities for coming back in time into what,
> > > hopefully, we've set up to bring back some of the other
> narratives
> > > and mythologies. It's interesting. At one point, one of my
> friends
> > > said, "It sounds like you guys are trying to fix the original".
> And
> > > we weren't really at all, but we were really aware of a lot of
> > > small details that the original had, that maybe we could
> explain or
> > > set that up, so that maybe the fans would go, "Oh my god, I see
> > > what they're doing. They're setting this up for the future".
> But
> > > the reality is, ultimately we just had to make it work as a
> > > contemporary story".
> > > > > As with how the apes take over, the Taylor story could be
> an
> > > avenue for future stories. And if there are no sequels, it's
> > > possible fans could connect "Rise" to the original film as to
> how
> > > the apes evolved (an alternate timeline changed by "Escape").
> But
> > > it won't be a perfect fit since the original Taylor wasn't a
> 21st
> > > Century astronaut. And there's all those familiar names in both
> > > tales. I like the name Hank Landon as a nod to the original,
> but
> > > maybe it's stretching things if Hank Landon and his son Dodge
> are
> > > responsible for inspiring the POTA that Landon and Dodge
> discover
> > > 20 centuries later (20 centuries!). Personally, I think it's
> more
> > > respectful to let the originals RIP (except when we want to
> watch
> > > them) and give these new ones the chance to do their own thing.
> > > Rupert Wyatt wants fans of the originals to feel welcome but he
> > > can't "taylor" it for the fans who want the original makeup or
> the
> > > original stories continued: "My whole outlook on it is you're
> never
> > > going to please everybody... if you try to please everybody
> you're
> > > going to please nobody... I think it means nothing to replicate".
> > > > > OK, so "Rise" is a different beast. But what do it's makers
> > > think of the originals? Jaffa loved the original as indicated
> by
> > > the touches in his script. Rupert Wyatt wasn't a big fan when
> he
> > > signed on: "I loved it in the same way as everyone did... the
> > > beauty of POTA, the original one, is that it's high camp, but
> it's
> > > classic as a result". He's diplomatic about Burton's version:
> "I
> > > think everyone has to acknowledge that the FX and prosthetics
> in
> > > that film are pretty phenomenal, but for some reason, it was a
> > > story that played out in a world that wasn't similar to our
> world,
> > > so we couldn't really connect to it. In a funny way, it was
> much
> > > more faithful to Pierre Boulle's novel than the original film".
> > > There's no connection between "Rise" and the POTA2001
> "universe",
> > > but don't be surprised if there's a few "Easter eggs" for it.
> > > > > As for the story in the new movie, Wyatt says, "(In the
> > > original films, it) was apes being brought into domestic
> households
> > > and being enslaved, but we've taken a different approach, which
> is
> > > a more scientific approach with how the apes evolved. I
> actually
> > > find that more plausible". Besides being more "realistic", it
> > > doesn't sound like the new apes will be as political. Producer
> > > Dylan Clark: "The original came out in the 1960's, so there is
> a
> > > natural connection to social upheaval and race relations and so
> > > forth. There are also other themes that I would argue that it's
> > > about, which would be Man's hubris. Man's hubris really got him
> in
> > > the end... Our social issues have changed. Obviously race is
> still
> > > a big issue, but it's changed. But we do play a lot with Man's
> > > hubris".> > The star of the movie, James Franco, also seems to
> dig
> > > the more realistic/less political assessment. He says that,
> "one of
> > > the differences is that the others seem to be much more about
> > > commentaries on class relations, inter-species relations, all
> of
> > > those things. Whereas ours... (is) much more of a
> "Frankenstein"
> > > story". Franco has seen the original as well as the "Behind the
> > > POTA" documentary (like Charlton Heston, he hasn't partook of
> the
> > > sequels). He doesn't seem that impressed with the classic
> makeup:
> > > "I assume the original "Apes" movie has kind of a cult appeal
> but
> > > you look at the masks and you say, "Well... I can't believe
> they
> > > are having serious philosophical conversations and they're
> wearing
> > > those crazy masks" but it's interesting on that level. But
> reality,
> > > or the idea of apes talking, has moved forward...not only have
> the
> > > way that they depicted apes changed and become more realistic
> but
> > > the storyline tries to be grounded in a more realistic world
> where
> > > it's at least conceivable that this could happen".
> > > > > One aspect of the original that Rupert Wyatt seems
> interested
> > > in is religion. Wyatt told Ed Gross, "My approach has been to
> > > imagine this a bit like a Bible story in a way. This is a story
> > > that's going to be told by generations of chimpanzees as the
> > > passing of stories down from father to son in the future
> > > civilization of the apes".
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/scifimediazone/news?a=24483
> > > > > He says even the weather cooperated with that aspect: "We
> were
> > > fortunate when shooting that it was a terrific summer in
> Vancouver.
> > > While certain story points may play out that are darker in
> tone,
> > > the lighting and the feel is a really nice counterpoint. In
> many
> > > ways, I think that's what leads to the film feeling very much
> like
> > > a fairy tale or a Bible story... it's very important that
> people
> > > understand that this is a film that is a story. It's the baby
> in
> > > the basket that's floating down the river".
> > > > > Perchance Wyatt is thinking of this as a Moses story
> (despite
> > > the name Caesar)? After all, Caesar is saved from a slaughter
> by
> > > Franco the Benevolent and raised in a life of privilege (for a
> > > chimp) before fate returns him to his own "people" (they're not
> > > people, you know) and he leads them (maybe *cough*) to freedom.
> Two
> > > Heston reboots for the price of one!
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff K." <veetus@...>
Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 10:03 am
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible spoilers)

> There's also "Ape and Essence" by Aldous Huxley ("Brave New
> World"), though the apes don't really take over, there's just
> warlike baboons that bracket it. It's more like "Beneath". But it's
> also considered proto-POTA literature.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ape_and_Essence
>
>
> From: Dario Sciola
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 5:19 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible
> spoilers)
>
>
>
> You're welcome.
>
> There are two other SF novel books that feature sentient apes that may
> be of interest. Across Time by David Grinell which I have a copy of
> buthave not gotten around to reading, and The Mocking Proram by
> Alan Dean
> Foster. Foster is a prolific writer and while I can find tons of his
> other books in any used book store I visit (and I visit shops all the
> time, everywhere I go), I have yet to find a copy The Mocking Program.
>
> Dario
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Neil Moxham <neilmoxham@...>
> Date: Tuesday, April 26, 2011 7:57 am
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible spoilers)
>
> > Thanks Dario, you already answered my next question about whether
> > Boulle could have seen it. I just bought a copy.
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > I read it a while back and wrote a more detailed review, and
> one
> > from a
> > > POTA fan P.O.V:
> > >
> > > http://www.theendoftheuniverse.ca/node/1299
> > >
> > > Dario
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Neil Moxham <neilmoxham@...>
> > > Date: Monday, April 25, 2011 5:25 pm
> > > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible
> > spoilers)>
> > > > Huh - I hadn't heard of that before. I must try to track down
> a
> > copy.> >
> > > > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > There was "Genus Homo" (1950) before Boulle.
> > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genus_Homo_(novel)
> > > > >
> > > > > And they're calling it POTA and using names like Landon and
> > > > Taylor, so I don't think they're trying to cover up their
> tracks.> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Michael & Sally
> > > > > Sent: Monday, April 25, 2011 12:20 PM
> > > > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs
> > (possible
> > > > spoilers)>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree Moxy - It's all syntax and the BUZZ word with
> Burton
> > was
> > > > "Re-invention" remember? It seems to be all about avoiding
> the
> > > > admission that they have to go back on old stories...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At least it's not Romeo and Juliet again! ;)
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> > > > --------------
> > > > >
> > > > > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
> > On
> > > > Behalf Of Neil Moxham
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 26 April 2011 1:40 AM
> > > > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: All "Rise" # 3: Easter eggs (possible
> > > > spoilers)>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting that they mention Pierre Boulle's novel - it
> > seems
> > > > like this film will have less connection to the novel than
> any
> > of
> > > > the previous films (no character names, not even any talking
> > > > monkeys!). In fact they only vaguely similar part is the
> > exposition
> > > > at the end of the book explaining how the apes took over, and
> > even
> > > > that is quite different. Apart from using the 'POTA' name,
> they
> > > > mightn't even need to credit Boulle for this one.
> > > > >
> > > > > And despite saying it's not a remake of Conquest, or
> anything
> > to
> > > > do with the originals, the whole concept of an ape revolution
> > > > taking over planet Earth was invented by Serling/Wilson/Dehn
> to
> > > > explain/adapt Boulle's premise. So whether they realise it or
> > not,
> > > > this is really a movie based-on-a-sequel-to-a-movie-
> adaptation-
> > of-
> > > > the-novel.
> > > > >
> > > > > That's not a criticism of the movie though, just that they
> > should
> > > > acknowledge that even if it this a new take on the story, it
> IS
> > > > essentially a retelling of an earlier idea. No?
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "When reports of the script and the project got out, it
> > started
> > > > being labeled a reboot and a prequel and then a remake of
> > > > "Conquest" and stuff. That was surprising to us, because we
> > never
> > > > really thought of it that way". - - - "Rise of the POTA"
> > > > screenwriter Rick Jaffa
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks to an early bootleg script and the moniker
> > "prequel",
> > > > there's been some confusion about whether "Rise" fits in with
> > the
> > > > other POTA movies. Basically, there are references from the
> > earlier
> > > > films but these were designed as "Easter eggs" for the fans.
> > > > Director Rupert Wyatt says, "It's not a continuation of the
> > other
> > > > films; it's an original story. It does satisfy the people who
> > enjoy
> > > > those films. The point of this film is to achieve that and to
> > bring
> > > > that fan base into this film exactly like "Batman
> (Begins)"...
> > > > (That) took it back to the beginning and started in a very
> > > > different vein and mood, that's what we wanted to do with
> > this... I
> > > > certainly wouldn't say that we are looking to reference
> > > > stylistically the other films".
> > > > > > Though it's a different take, they wanted to show respect
> > for
> > > > what had gone before. Screenwriter Rick Jaffa (who considers
> > the
> > > > original POTA one of his favorite films) says that "we tried
> to
> > be
> > > > as loyal to the mythology of those movies so that fans would
> > feel
> > > > like great care was taken in trying to apply some of that to
> > this
> > > > story to the degree that we could. At some point you just
> have
> > to
> > > > make your own movie... there's lots of fun stuff for "Apes"
> > fans
> > > > specifically that we put in there". Mostly that seems to be
> > names
> > > > like Caesar, Landon and Dodge, as well as names of those who
> > made
> > > > the originals (Jacobs, Maurice, Franklin). And even places
> are
> > > > named after characters (the café at the Gen Sys lab is called
> > the
> > > > Nova Java Café). But they tried to strike a balance with that
> > > > stuff. Producer Dylan Clark says, "The goal was to make this
> > one a
> > > > realistic story. There is a line you could go past where it
> > starts
> > > > to become silly, but we were aware of it".
> > > > > > There is a moment in the bootleg script that got fans
> > > > speculating though, involving an astronaut Taylor's
> preparation
> > to
> > > > blast off in a ship called the Icarus (on TV in the
> > background). As
> > > > of August 2010 it sounds like they were still planning to go
> > > > through with it. But Jaffa just says, "The thing about the
> > Icarus
> > > > is that it's a big nod to the past and for fans. Quite
> frankly,
> > it
> > > > opens up great possibilities for coming back in time into
> what,
> > > > hopefully, we've set up to bring back some of the other
> > narratives
> > > > and mythologies. It's interesting. At one point, one of my
> > friends
> > > > said, "It sounds like you guys are trying to fix the
> original".
> > And
> > > > we weren't really at all, but we were really aware of a lot
> of
> > > > small details that the original had, that maybe we could
> > explain or
> > > > set that up, so that maybe the fans would go, "Oh my god, I
> see
> > > > what they're doing. They're setting this up for the future".
> > But
> > > > the reality is, ultimately we just had to make it work as a
> > > > contemporary story".
> > > > > > As with how the apes take over, the Taylor story could be
> > an
> > > > avenue for future stories. And if there are no sequels, it's
> > > > possible fans could connect "Rise" to the original film as to
> > how
> > > > the apes evolved (an alternate timeline changed by "Escape").
> > But
> > > > it won't be a perfect fit since the original Taylor wasn't a
> > 21st
> > > > Century astronaut. And there's all those familiar names in
> both
> > > > tales. I like the name Hank Landon as a nod to the original,
> > but
> > > > maybe it's stretching things if Hank Landon and his son Dodge
> > are
> > > > responsible for inspiring the POTA that Landon and Dodge
> > discover
> > > > 20 centuries later (20 centuries!). Personally, I think it's
> > more
> > > > respectful to let the originals RIP (except when we want to
> > watch
> > > > them) and give these new ones the chance to do their own
> thing.
> > > > Rupert Wyatt wants fans of the originals to feel welcome but
> he
> > > > can't "taylor" it for the fans who want the original makeup
> or
> > the
> > > > original stories continued: "My whole outlook on it is you're
> > never
> > > > going to please everybody... if you try to please everybody
> > you're
> > > > going to please nobody... I think it means nothing to
> replicate".> > > > > OK, so "Rise" is a different beast. But what
> do it's makers
> > > > think of the originals? Jaffa loved the original as indicated
> > by
> > > > the touches in his script. Rupert Wyatt wasn't a big fan when
> > he
> > > > signed on: "I loved it in the same way as everyone did... the
> > > > beauty of POTA, the original one, is that it's high camp, but
> > it's
> > > > classic as a result". He's diplomatic about Burton's version:
> > "I
> > > > think everyone has to acknowledge that the FX and prosthetics
> > in
> > > > that film are pretty phenomenal, but for some reason, it was
> a
> > > > story that played out in a world that wasn't similar to our
> > world,
> > > > so we couldn't really connect to it. In a funny way, it was
> > much
> > > > more faithful to Pierre Boulle's novel than the original
> film".
> > > > There's no connection between "Rise" and the POTA2001
> > "universe",
> > > > but don't be surprised if there's a few "Easter eggs" for it.
> > > > > > As for the story in the new movie, Wyatt says, "(In the
> > > > original films, it) was apes being brought into domestic
> > households
> > > > and being enslaved, but we've taken a different approach,
> which
> > is
> > > > a more scientific approach with how the apes evolved. I
> > actually
> > > > find that more plausible". Besides being more "realistic", it
> > > > doesn't sound like the new apes will be as political.
> Producer
> > > > Dylan Clark: "The original came out in the 1960's, so there
> is
> > a
> > > > natural connection to social upheaval and race relations and
> so
> > > > forth. There are also other themes that I would argue that
> it's
> > > > about, which would be Man's hubris. Man's hubris really got
> him
> > in
> > > > the end... Our social issues have changed. Obviously race is
> > still
> > > > a big issue, but it's changed. But we do play a lot with
> Man's
> > > > hubris".> > The star of the movie, James Franco, also seems
> to
> > dig
> > > > the more realistic/less political assessment. He says that,
> > "one of
> > > > the differences is that the others seem to be much more about
> > > > commentaries on class relations, inter-species relations, all
> > of
> > > > those things. Whereas ours... (is) much more of a
> > "Frankenstein"
> > > > story". Franco has seen the original as well as the "Behind
> the
> > > > POTA" documentary (like Charlton Heston, he hasn't partook of
> > the
> > > > sequels). He doesn't seem that impressed with the classic
> > makeup:
> > > > "I assume the original "Apes" movie has kind of a cult appeal
> > but
> > > > you look at the masks and you say, "Well... I can't believe
> > they
> > > > are having serious philosophical conversations and they're
> > wearing
> > > > those crazy masks" but it's interesting on that level. But
> > reality,
> > > > or the idea of apes talking, has moved forward...not only
> have
> > the
> > > > way that they depicted apes changed and become more realistic
> > but
> > > > the storyline tries to be grounded in a more realistic world
> > where
> > > > it's at least conceivable that this could happen".
> > > > > > One aspect of the original that Rupert Wyatt seems
> > interested
> > > > in is religion. Wyatt told Ed Gross, "My approach has been to
> > > > imagine this a bit like a Bible story in a way. This is a
> story
> > > > that's going to be told by generations of chimpanzees as the
> > > > passing of stories down from father to son in the future
> > > > civilization of the apes".
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/scifimediazone/news?a=24483
> > > > > > He says even the weather cooperated with that aspect: "We
> > were
> > > > fortunate when shooting that it was a terrific summer in
> > Vancouver.
> > > > While certain story points may play out that are darker in
> > tone,
> > > > the lighting and the feel is a really nice counterpoint. In
> > many
> > > > ways, I think that's what leads to the film feeling very much
> > like
> > > > a fairy tale or a Bible story... it's very important that
> > people
> > > > understand that this is a film that is a story. It's the baby
> > in
> > > > the basket that's floating down the river".
> > > > > > Perchance Wyatt is thinking of this as a Moses story
> > (despite
> > > > the name Caesar)? After all, Caesar is saved from a slaughter
> > by
> > > > Franco the Benevolent and raised in a life of privilege (for
> a
> > > > chimp) before fate returns him to his own "people" (they're
> not
> > > > people, you know) and he leads them (maybe *cough*) to
> freedom.
> > Two
> > > > Heston reboots for the price of one!
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Looks like "Ape" fever is starting early. The "Rise of the POTA" trailer is being given some of the credit, so hopefully you Grumbling Garys will note that a successful "Rise" raises all boats.
>
> http://geek-news.mtv.com/2011/04/25/planet-of-the-apes-1-sells-out/
>

> Whether the public will buy all those issues remains to be seen (we might
> not know until the film is released).

----- Original Message -----
From: mlccougar@...
Date: Wednesday, April 27, 2011 3:23 pm
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: BOOM POTA comic #1 sells out

> *** With the multiple covers, I'm doubting it unless everyone who
> is
> planning on buying the comic is a completist... ***
>
>
> In a message dated 4/27/2011 11:13:03 AM Central Daylight Time,
> veetus@... writes:
>
>
> > Whether the public will buy all those issues remains to be seen
> (we might
> > not know until the film is released).
>
> </HTML>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'd like to have a discussion of Issue #1, but I'd also like to wait
> until most of those that are picking it up have had a chance to read it
> and not spoil to story by starting a discussion too early.
>
> Are there going to be many of you who will be picking it up in the next
> few days?
>
> Dario
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Michael & Sally <mswhitty@...>
Date: Thursday, April 28, 2011 11:44 am
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Boom! #1 Review/comments?

> I'm moving house tomorrow and Neil's helping so we'll call a comic
> store and
> see if they have hit the shores of Aus.
>
>
>
> I am not one bit impressed that the Burton look is being used, but
> I am
> hoping the stories will be so good it won't matter..
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of
> Neil Moxham
> Sent: Friday, 29 April 2011 12:26 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Boom! #1 Review/comments?
>
>
>
>
>
> Just got mine.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> DarioSciola <darios@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I'd like to have a discussion of Issue #1, but I'd also like to wait
> > until most of those that are picking it up have had a chance to
> read it
> > and not spoil to story by starting a discussion too early.
> >
> > Are there going to be many of you who will be picking it up in
> the next
> > few days?
> >
> > Dario
> >
>
>
>
>

> Are there going to be many of you who will be picking it up in the next
> few days?
>

> I picked it up too. My store had both covers. I picked B (with the
> Lawgiver).

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
>
>
> I'd like to have a discussion of Issue #1, but I'd also like to wait
> until most of those that are picking it up have had a chance to read it
> and not spoil to story by starting a discussion too early.
>
> Are there going to be many of you who will be picking it up in the next
> few days?
>
> Dario
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:
>
> *** I bought both covers and then asked if he knew anything about the
> special "Damn Dirty Apes" chase cover & he had that too... They had that one
> marked $10.00. ***
>
>
>
> In a message dated 4/28/2011 7:52:43 PM Central Daylight Time,
> veetus@... writes:
>
>
> > I picked it up too. My store had both covers. I picked B (with the
> > Lawgiver).
>
> </HTML>
>