But if all the humans die it won't be a prequel to Planet '68.

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Sally & Michael" <smwhitty@...> wrote:
>
> Rise is a Requel!
>
>
>
> Yeah so they nuke the apes in the redwood haven and all the humans cough
> blood till they die...

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Which is something that they had the chance to avoid this time around, but sadly no...

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
> How did Dr. Milo get them to 1973? How did original Caesar take over the planet? Plot holes are a POTA tradition. : )
>

I didn't mean penning them in cages I meant the forest / woodland area they ended up in. Block off all escape routes, send the bombers in and eradicate the 'ape problem'

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah, while the apes rip the faces off, excuse me, bite the fingers off the humans doing the penning.

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Saw it. Loved it.

SPOILERS








I'm not seeing the plot holes that are being alluded to here, and I think there's a much greater villain than the two you've mentioned. It's the hubris of Franco's character.

This isn't a remake of CONQUEST, the apes aren't in control of the planet at the end, or evenof the city, but they are standing in the wings for when humankind will presumably be decimated by Rodman's negligence and arrogance.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Sally & Michael" <smwhitty@...> wrote:
>
> No Mike it's a much better film. I think you too will LIKE it but you will
> be disappointed it wasn't all it could have been.
>
>
>
> I'm not as disappointed as Neil - I think Neil was expecting too much and
> the "tributes" effected him more than they effected me.
>
>
>
> I'm also the "kid" who got excited every time he saw something with a POTA
> logo on it (right up to that Burton film), not the "Defender of the
> Integrity of the Apes".
>
>
>
> There was never a whole lot of integrity in the first place..
>
>
>
> My criticism comes with a "I liked it, but.." and the more I think about it
> the more I think there's a big thing missing other than a villain (or two
> poor ones) - it's that adult, depressed, depressing, bleak message that
> teases us with hope that really defines POTA to me. If it was made a bit
> more adult, a bit more bleak, a few rude words, a sex scene (no, TZero, not
> humand and apes!). I really suspect there's a much better, much longer
> Director's edition coming out and he'll delete all those references and add
> some depth.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of
> mlccougar@...
> Sent: Saturday, 6 August 2011 10:15 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Sequel of the Rise of the Planet of the Apes
>
>
>
>
>
> Didn't a lot of people say that Burton's film was a set up to a sequel?
>
> This isn't history repeating itself is it? :)
>
> In a message dated 8/5/2011 5:01:50 PM Central Daylight Time,
> smwhitty@... <mailto:smwhitty%40bigpond.com> writes:
>
> > It has to!
> >
> > It's a sequel launch pad, it's not a movie!
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com>
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
> Of
> > Jeff K.
> > Sent: Saturday, 6 August 2011 6:21 AM
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com <mailto:pota%40yahoogroups.com> ;
> PotaDG@yahoogroups.com <mailto:PotaDG%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Box office of the Apes
> >
> >
> >
> > Remains to be seen if the apes cross the bridge to a sequel.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> </HTML>
>

Here's one for you...

S

P

O

I

L

E

R


S

T

U

F

F


How could Caesar's mother who was presumably being tested / observed / monitored during all that trialling of the 'wonder drug' have her pregnancy go undiscovered? And then how did she manage to have a baby, clear up any associated mess and manage to keep the thing in her cage without anyone finding out?!?

Call it a plot hole, sloppy writing or whatever, it's still crap and it's far from the only bad piece of storytelling. Don't get me started on Caesar being the only thing that ages in the movie!

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "cjh5801" <clark@...> wrote:
> I'm not seeing the plot holes that are being alluded to here,

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In a message dated 8/6/2011 12:05:23 AM Central Daylight Time,
veetus@... writes:

> For example, in the original they transfuse blood from Nova directly
> into Chuck. How?

"Maybe that's how an ape would do it" (paraphased)~Richard Zanuck</HTML>

I'm not trying to be a smart arse here so I don't see why you need to be.
We all know the originals are full of holes, however that has nothing to do with the failings of Rise so it's pretty stupid to bring them into it don't you think?

And like I said that was just one example of how sloppy Rise is, there's plenty more.

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> I could offer alternate descriptions of the originals which is just as ingenious as yours. But it would be conjecture, not proof!
>
> For example, in the original they transfuse blood from Nova directly into Chuck. How?

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Because they weren't testing her for pregnancy? Perhaps pregnancy wasn't very high on the list of expected side effects to the drug testing. And how do human females give birth in public restrooms and dump the baby in a dumpster without anyone ever knowing they were pregnant?

BTW, have you seen animals give birth? Many of them eat the afterbirth.

- Clark

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Because she was a smart, state of the art monkey. And they are a busy lab. 'Nuff said!
>
>
> From: munkeyman63au
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 9:20 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Sequel of the Rise of the Planet of the Apes
>
>
>
> Here's one for you...
>
> S
>
> P
>
> O
>
> I
>
> L
>
> E
>
> R
>
> S
>
> T
>
> U
>
> F
>
> F
>
> How could Caesar's mother who was presumably being tested / observed / monitored during all that trialling of the 'wonder drug' have her pregnancy go undiscovered? And then how did she manage to have a baby, clear up any associated mess and manage to keep the thing in her cage without anyone finding out?!?
>
> Call it a plot hole, sloppy writing or whatever, it's still crap and it's far from the only bad piece of storytelling. Don't get me started on Caesar being the only thing that ages in the movie!
>
> Neil T.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "cjh5801" <clark@> wrote:
> > I'm not seeing the plot holes that are being alluded to here,
>

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.html <.html

.html <.html

Spoiler -

really enjoyed Rise as well. This is a well crafted, well paced film with an incredible performance from Andy Serkis plus thrills to boot.

I'm just so pleased that Planet of the Apes is relevant again and a new generation of moviegoers will discover this classic franchise. I loved all of the references particularly Caesar saying "NO"! the first words an ape ever said as per Conquest.

It's wonderful that this film has received such high praise and that we are very likely to see some sequels in the near future. I welcome a slighty new take on the films and having new stories and adventures to enjoy.

Nothing will ever compare to thrill of seeing Planet of the Apes, Beneath, Escape, Conquest or Battle for the first time. I watched them all as a kid and they made such a huge impression on me, I have been entranced by them ever since.

I am reveling in the fact that Planet of the Apes is back.

Jonathan

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry you guys didn't like it. I had a blast. It wasn't perfect in either FX or story but I loved it.
> I really didn't have a problem with the references, they seemed pretty subtle to me. The only time I winced was the "damn dirty ape" line but they didn't spotlight it like Burton did. The "madhouse" line was very in the background. I even missed the Heston footage. My friend saw it, I guess I was concentrating on Lithgow.
> I enjoyed the humans too, even the Jacobs dude. Considering original Caesar had to deal with Breck and Kolp I didn't think he was over the top.
> I just get the "Apes" fans who are trashing this movie. It's awakening a lot of people to the power of the POTA concept.
>
>
> From: Sally & Michael
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 2:59 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes' review: Fine effects aren't enough
>
>
>
>
> Yes that review is perfect.
>
>
>
> I still think it's worth seeing and as I said we all know precisely where the sequels will go but they might give us a better villain (there were actually 2 in RISE - Jacobs and MUSTANG owner).
>
>
>
> Compared to other stuff around it's a good movie but yes it could have been a whole lot better. I just wanted something that wiped out the memory of Burton's movie and it achieved that goal.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Neil T. Foster
> Sent: Friday, 5 August 2011 11:10 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes' review: Fine effects aren't enough
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.nj.com/entertainment/movies/index.ssf/2011/08/rise_of_the_planet_of_the_apes_review_fine_effects_arent_enough.html"
>
>
>
> Here's another review, written by a bloke named Stephen Whitty who seems to know his POTA stuff (a long lost American cousin Michael?!?) He sums up perfectly how I feel about it all. There's a couple of little spoilers in it but nothing major.
>
>
>
> Neil T. Foster
>

Okay one more and then that'll be it from me as obviously a lot of you really like this movie and I don't want to bring anyone down.

I have a big problem with Caesar aging whilst nothing else does, not a thing changes. For example Jacobs is wearing the exact same clothes the day he kills the original program off as he is ,what is it meant to be, about 8 years or more later, when he enters the Gen-Sys building full of escaped apes. He has the same hair style etc. doesn't look like he's aged a day plus he's wearing the exact same clothes even down to the same tie!

Yeah I know it could happen in real life and just be a massive, massive coincidence but please, come on, really folks?

Same with all the other characters, trees, bushes, fashions and everything else. Nothing gets older except Caesar and that's about when the film lost me as a fan.

Like I said though that's just one thing that ruined it for me, there's much more...

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "cjh5801" <clark@...> wrote:
>
> Because they weren't testing her for pregnancy? Perhaps pregnancy wasn't very high on the list of expected side effects to the drug testing. And how do human females give birth in public restrooms and dump the baby in a dumpster without anyone ever knowing they were pregnant?
>
> BTW, have you seen animals give birth? Many of them eat the afterbirth.
>
> - Clark
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> >
> > Because she was a smart, state of the art monkey. And they are a busy lab. 'Nuff said!
> >
> >
> > From: munkeyman63au
> > Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 9:20 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Sequel of the Rise of the Planet of the Apes
> >
> >
> >
> > Here's one for you...
> >
> > S
> >
> > P
> >
> > O
> >
> > I
> >
> > L
> >
> > E
> >
> > R
> >
> > S
> >
> > T
> >
> > U
> >
> > F
> >
> > F
> >
> > How could Caesar's mother who was presumably being tested / observed / monitored during all that trialling of the 'wonder drug' have her pregnancy go undiscovered? And then how did she manage to have a baby, clear up any associated mess and manage to keep the thing in her cage without anyone finding out?!?
> >
> > Call it a plot hole, sloppy writing or whatever, it's still crap and it's far from the only bad piece of storytelling. Don't get me started on Caesar being the only thing that ages in the movie!
> >
> > Neil T.
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "cjh5801" <clark@> wrote:
> > > I'm not seeing the plot holes that are being alluded to here,
> >
>

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I agree!! Saw it at midnight & loved it. The "damn dirty ape" line was awful but led to one of my favorite parts of the film. Took my 11 yr old son the next day & loved it more!! Seeing how excited he was, almost crying, sitting at the edge of his seat, & even cheering out loud warmed my little black heart. Went again that night with friends who wanted to see it. 3 times in 24 hours & I don't regret it at all. It may not be perfect, but without making the movie myself, that's never gonna happen. Suddenly being "the apes guy" is cool & my son, his friends, my friends, people on Facebook etc. all have an interest in Planet of the Apes. I couldn't be much happier.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry you guys didn't like it. I had a blast. It wasn't perfect in either FX or story but I loved it.
> I really didn't have a problem with the references, they seemed pretty subtle to me. The only time I winced was the "damn dirty ape" line but they didn't spotlight it like Burton did. The "madhouse" line was very in the background. I even missed the Heston footage. My friend saw it, I guess I was concentrating on Lithgow.
> I enjoyed the humans too, even the Jacobs dude. Considering original Caesar had to deal with Breck and Kolp I didn't think he was over the top.
> I just get the "Apes" fans who are trashing this movie. It's awakening a lot of people to the power of the POTA concept.
>
>
> From: Sally & Michael
> Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 2:59 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes' review: Fine effects aren't enough
>
>
>
>
> Yes that review is perfect.
>
>
>
> I still think it's worth seeing and as I said we all know precisely where the sequels will go but they might give us a better villain (there were actually 2 in RISE - Jacobs and MUSTANG owner).
>
>
>
> Compared to other stuff around it's a good movie but yes it could have been a whole lot better. I just wanted something that wiped out the memory of Burton's movie and it achieved that goal.
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Neil T. Foster
> Sent: Friday, 5 August 2011 11:10 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes' review: Fine effects aren't enough
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.nj.com/entertainment/movies/index.ssf/2011/08/rise_of_the_planet_of_the_apes_review_fine_effects_arent_enough.html"
>
>
>
> Here's another review, written by a bloke named Stephen Whitty who seems to know his POTA stuff (a long lost American cousin Michael?!?) He sums up perfectly how I feel about it all. There's a couple of little spoilers in it but nothing major.
>
>
>
> Neil T. Foster
>

In a message dated 8/6/2011 6:24:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
jpptrs@... writes:

> I'm just so pleased that Planet of the Apes is relevant again and a new
> generation of moviegoers will discover this classic franchise.

*** I am not commenting on the film (haven't seen it), but I think it's a
stretch to call a film that's been released for one full day "relevant"...
***




I loved all of the references particularly Caesar saying "NO"! the first
words an ape

> ever said as per Conquest.

*** So in RISE Caesar is the first ape to say "No"?... In ESCAPE, Cornelius
tells us that an ape named Aldo was the first to utter the word "no" and in
CONQUEST that Caesar never says it in defiance/rebellion against humans...
***</HTML>

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.html <.html

It's weird and I'm probably completely wrong as usual but I get the feeling that some fans are just so happy that POTA is popular again that they are prepared to overlook or forgive anything that's bad about ROTPOTA. That's cool though, I just wish I could love it as much as the rest of you do.

I even watched Planet again the other night to see if it was 'Apes' I was out of love with but it's not, I watched it all the way through and still loved it even with the supposed less effective make-ups (compared to the CGI) and all it's other little flaws.

Another thing that slightly worries me is that I'm sure some of our Ape friends, historians, authors, publishers, pundits etc. etc. are going to love the extra attention they get now as well and I wouldn't be surprised if some will be less that 100% truthful about how they really feel about this new film.

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/6/2011 6:24:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
> jpptrs@... writes:
>
>
> > I'm just so pleased that Planet of the Apes is relevant again and a new
> > generation of moviegoers will discover this classic franchise.
>
> *** I am not commenting on the film (haven't seen it), but I think it's a
> stretch to call a film that's been released for one full day "relevant"...

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.html <.html

strange with all these covers. i'm not really a comic book person so i'm not getting it with the ton of different covers for the same thing.

jess.

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Sally & Michael <smwhitty@...> wrote:

Ah fuck! Even more covers!

http://www.boom-studios.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=Planet%20of%20the%20Apes&x=0&y=0

.html <.html

Yeah, the multiple covers are getting to be too much... It'd be better if
they cut it back on them to keep things easier for people... All I can guess
is they had the artwork drawn up for them so they figure they might as well
use it... What I really don't get are the covers that are the same as cover
"A" or "B" just with no lettering/title on them...





In a message dated 8/6/2011 8:35:42 PM Central Daylight Time,
jessicarotich@... writes:

>
> strange with all these covers. i'm not really a comic book person so i'm
> not getting it with the ton of different covers for the same thing.
>
> jess.
>
> On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Sally & Michael <<A
> HREF="mailto:smwhitty@...">smwhitty@...</A>> wrote:
> >>
>> Ah fuck! Even more covers!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

</HTML>

This is true... Even the ADVENTURE Comics (poor as most of them are) get
some "respect" just because of their title...



In a message dated 8/6/2011 6:29:10 PM Central Daylight Time,
ntfoster@... writes:

> It's weird and I'm probably completely wrong as usual but I get the
> feeling that some fans are just so happy that POTA is popular again that they
> are prepared to overlook or forgive anything that's bad about ROTPOTA. That's
> cool though, I just wish I could love it as much as the rest of you do.

</HTML>

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

.html <.html

I think the extra $14M that the Planet of the Apes remake generated might have had something to do with people that were fans of Tim Burton.

Also surprised there was no ad on our paper. I expected a giant color spread booming with blurbs praising Rise, but, there was nothing.

This latest Apes film will undoubtedly get huge word of mouth and I'm hoping it will continue to do solid numbers at the box office.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> The final estimate for "Rise" this weekend is $ 54 million (final numbers tomorrow).
>
> http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3240&p=.htm
>
> Didn't quite pass "X-Men" as Fox's best summer opening ($ 55 million). Both films were iffy prequels acclaimed by critics and fans, so good for Fox. It's just too bad the box office wasn't up to some the bigger (and I'd say inferior) films this summer, though 3D prices messed things up a bit. I'd also say Fox was a bit cheap on traditional advertising. I didn't see any billboards or bus ads. This morning my local paper had big ads for "Cowboys and Aliens", "The Smurfs" and "The Change-Up" but nothing for "Apes". Instead Fox emphasized the internet.
>
> http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=3237&p=.htm
>
>
> Sometimes hype goes overboard but I think if there isn't any I think some people dismiss it as, "Well, that's not really a top movie". But I don't know if a change of marketing would have helped the box office. There's still the rest of it's run, plus foreign. The U.S. hasn't really been Santa Claus for the big movies, it's been the rest of the world (so don't blame us for "Pirates 5" or "Transformers: The Reboot").
>
> Obviously "Rise" did not pass POTA2001's opening for whatever reason. But that was a big deal opening and made the records. It opened to $ 68.5 million ($ 96.5 million today adjusted for inflation) and grossed $ 180 m. in the U.S. ($ 253 m. today), $ 362 million worldwide.
>
> http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=planetoftheapes01.htm
>
> The drop was steep though, about 60% the second week :
>
> http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=planetoftheapes01.htm
>
> "Rise" has a lot of goodwill going for it, so I think it's one of those franchises that will continue. Those who miss out will see it on DVD and presumably be on board for a sequel.
> Overall, a great weekend for POTA.
>

.html <.html

Exactly Jeff.

Mlccougar, I didn't mean that Rise of the POTA is relevant but, the entire Planet of the Apes series is relevant again. People are discussing it, are interested in seeing the original films, there is talk of sequels. There is also a wonderful new film by Rupert Wyatt to cherish. I loved this latest entry and am so pleased this fabulous series is in Vogue again.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Lisa is the first ape to say "no" in "Conquest" (except for the new unedited version); Aldo was sedated.
> "Rise" is "relevant" because it's getting people talking and excited about "Apes" again. It's hitting a chord with them.
>
>
> From: mlccougar@...
> Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2011 12:55 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes' review: Fine
>
>
>
> In a message dated 8/6/2011 6:24:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
> jpptrs@... writes:
>
> > I'm just so pleased that Planet of the Apes is relevant again and a new
> > generation of moviegoers will discover this classic franchise.
>
> *** I am not commenting on the film (haven't seen it), but I think it's a
> stretch to call a film that's been released for one full day "relevant"...
> ***
>
> I loved all of the references particularly Caesar saying "NO"! the first
> words an ape
> > ever said as per Conquest.
>
> *** So in RISE Caesar is the first ape to say "No"?... In ESCAPE, Cornelius
> tells us that an ape named Aldo was the first to utter the word "no" and in
> CONQUEST that Caesar never says it in defiance/rebellion against humans...
> ***</HTML>
>

When was the last time you seen anything like that for any film? :)




In a message dated 8/7/2011 1:58:21 PM Central Daylight Time,
jpptrs@... writes:

> Also surprised there was no ad on our paper. I expected a giant color
> spread booming with blurbs praising Rise, but, there was nothing.
>

</HTML>

I've been a POTA fan since the early 1970s, and I loved this film, but I don't think that it is perfect--no film is. Even the original had "little flaws", as you say.

SPOILERS














For one thing, it looks to me that RISE was a bit over-edited prior to release. It looks like there may have been something missing between Jacobs and Caesar (possibly when Jacobs encounters the rampaging apes at Gen*Sys), something missing at the zoo involving the third canister Caesar took from the fridge, and something important missing between Caesar and Cornelia (especially since her empty cage was apparently Caesar's motivation for storming Gen*Sys).

But even with these omissions (if they are omissions), the film works for me. And on reflection I think it's a bit deeper than people are giving it credit for. It isn't just a warning against the evils of animal testing, it's a warning against our tendency to play god. Will Rodman is a sympathetic character but he is deeply flawed, and his arrogance and negligence apparently lead to the destruction of the human race.

- Clark

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "munkeyman63au" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> It's weird and I'm probably completely wrong as usual but I get the feeling that some fans are just so happy that POTA is popular again that they are prepared to overlook or forgive anything that's bad about ROTPOTA. That's cool though, I just wish I could love it as much as the rest of you do.
>
> I even watched Planet again the other night to see if it was 'Apes' I was out of love with but it's not, I watched it all the way through and still loved it even with the supposed less effective make-ups (compared to the CGI) and all it's other little flaws.
>
> Another thing that slightly worries me is that I'm sure some of our Ape friends, historians, authors, publishers, pundits etc. etc. are going to love the extra attention they get now as well and I wouldn't be surprised if some will be less that 100% truthful about how they really feel about this new film.
>
> Neil T.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@ wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 8/6/2011 6:24:52 AM Central Daylight Time,
> > jpptrs@ writes:
> >
> >
> > > I'm just so pleased that Planet of the Apes is relevant again and a new
> > > generation of moviegoers will discover this classic franchise.
> >
> > *** I am not commenting on the film (haven't seen it), but I think it's a
> > stretch to call a film that's been released for one full day "relevant"...
>

I don't know about that, I cared about Lewis and Stevie.

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>Franco and Pinto are Lewis and Stevie.

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Okay I've just seen it for a second time and enjoyed it a lot more. Even though there are still things that really bug me about it I didn't obsess on them and just enjoyed it for what it is. I didn't worry about all the 'nods & winks' etc. this time I just let them pass harmlessly through to the keeper.

I can even contradict myself about nothing but Caesar ageing as this time round I noticed that the daughter of nasty neighbour who has his finger tip bitten off has actually gotten older. Pity they couldn't have done something with the adults as well.
I still don't think it's a great film and think a few have gone way overboard with their praise and enthusiasm for it but I suppose we have been starved of decent 'Apes' recently.

I still don't see this as directly leading to Planet '68 though but see it as the start of a new version of the apes saga (despite what the director has been quoted as saying.) I think if the sequels are successful enough they may eventually do a new updated version of the original. I think this thing is completely separate from the original films but they will use them as a basis for ideas, characters etc.
I also can't see why they will need to 'evolve' the look of the apes beyond how Caesar looks. I really can't see them evolving to look like the original ape make-ups, why would they need to, Caesar already stands and walks upright and getting smarter doesn't make your legs get longer etc.

It will be interesting if they do sequels to see what sort of clothes (if any) the apes start wearing.

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "cjh5801" <clark@...> wrote:
>
> I've been a POTA fan since the early 1970s, and I loved this film, but I don't think that it is perfect--no film is. Even the original had "little flaws", as you say.

Whitty,

I seen part of one where they found the TV series lunch box... Is that what
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I wouldn't be surprised if quite a bit was cut out. This feels much more obvious to me the second time around, there were quite a few moments where things just don't seem quite right and don't make a lot of sense.

Maybe this was why the movie length kept changing all the time last week before it came out?

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> One thing about the daughter is in the trailer she's friendly, waving at Caesar. That seems to be another thing they cut out. I think that would've had a bigger impact, the start of a friendship (at least on Caesar's part) that is curtailed because he's different. In the final film there's only antagonism.

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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-08-08/apes-take-box-office/2828714?section=entertainment

Chimps reigned over humans, Smurfs and aliens at movie theatres over the weekend as Rise Of The Planet Of The Apes climbed to the top of box office charts with global ticket sales of $US77.4 million ($74.34 million).

The big-budget, effects-filled prequel to the 1968 classic film about genetically enhanced apes that launch a revolution took the top spot at US and Canadian theatres with a strong $US54 million in ticket sales, distributor 20th Century Fox said.

The film starring James Franco and John Lithgow also sold $US23.4 million in 25 international markets.

The US and Canadian tally tops forecasts for the film which cost about $US93 million to make.

Positive reviews plus "ground-breaking (effects) technology" and "a very strong emotional story" drew audiences, said Chris Aronson, senior vice-president for domestic distribution at 20th Century Fox.

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A bit late with my comments. I had to leave for Montreal on Friday, the
day of the opening, but made sure that I caught the first morning
showing in Ottawa before I left.

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Spoilers!

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Not much I can add to the many comments already provided, but in a nut
shell, I really liked the movie. As some have already pointed out, it
does have its share of problems, but I do think that the many good
aspects outweigh the negatives. My major gripe was that the trailers
really spoiled it by giving away way too much. I was hoping that there
may have been a lot more relevant content to the movie that was not in
the trailers, but aside from the specifics of the ending, there wasn't
much to the story that wasn't already evident.

I wasn't bothered by the abundant POTA nods and references, although it
wasn't very imaginative for them to have put them in the way they did.

Franco was, well just "Franco". As I watched his usual lacklustre
performance and thinking about his role in Spiderman, I thought to
myself how so much better the movie would have been with an actor like
Tobey Maguire. Imagine my surprise when I later found out that they only
offered it to Franco when they couldn't get Tobey. Freida Pinto was
pretty useless from the story point of view and should have either had a
greater role or removed entirely.

Serkis/Caesar WAS the movie of course and while I thought the notion of
giving him an academy ridiculous before, I am coming around to seeing
how it may make sense. My problem with captured motion technology is
that most of the facial features in the 'performance' are still provided
by the CGI team as they tweak the movie. So how much of the Caesar
performance is Serkis and how much of it is CGI editing?

The score made no impression on me as I watched which was surprising as
I liked the sound effects used to build up the tension in the trailer.

Story wise, I think that this movie can stand on it's own nicely,
leaving us off at a good point, while at the same time the next step in
the "Rise" of the apes can be serialized in future movies. The entire
notion of tieing in to the original POTA is tenuous at best, but I can
accept that. There is still a lot that can be told until we get to a
"Conquest" state. I do hope that whatever interaction with humans they
do have in the next movie (crioss fingers) would be with an entire new
cast of humans. The characters and actors I cared about, Lithgow as
Franco's father and Franklin the caretaker, are dead.

The way I see it, the last few images of the spread of the pandemic can
easily be interpreted to mean that in a matter of days and weeks
millions or even billions of humans will die. A bunch of rebelious apes
north of San Francisco will hardly be of concern to humans. So the next
movie can really go so many ways.

I'll probably watch it again in the coming weeks.

Dario

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You've brought up another of the other little things that irks me.







Spoilers








That little animation at the end supposedly showing the infection spreading around the world makes it look like it spreads really easily and rapidly but Franklin didn't even seem to pass it on to anyone else except nasty neighbour and then only when he actually sneezed blood on him. Franklin even coughed blood onto his clipboard or something whilst standing next to Rodman after he had been infected but it didn't seem to have spread to him.

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:

> The way I see it, the last few images of the spread of the pandemic can
> easily be interpreted to mean that in a matter of days and weeks
> millions or even billions of humans will die.

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Well that's good, they won't have to age any of the human adults then! ;-)

B
Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>> It would be set about 8 years after "Rise"

Just saw the Irish preview tonight, followed by catching up on a week's worth of ignored POTA messages. Probably not much I can add that hasn't been said already, but I'll do it anyway!

I went in fearing the worst and with that in mind it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. But, my first thought on leaving was "poor Tom Felton" - he really got saddled with the most awful, cliched dialogue/action in the film. Probably not his fault, we're not supposed to like his character anyway, but he was barely even one-dimensional as some sort of 'ghost of POTA movies past'. The other nods didn't offend me so much - the Heston TV bit was subtle, and the ape names I already knew about so they just kind of passed me by - but the writing for Felton's character was just terrible. I'm amazed he didn't pound the floor and "damn Caesar to Hell" at any point. Franco was OK, not very engaging - at the and he seems very unconcerned for a guy who's already caused a lot of deaths and is about to cause the downfall of the human race. Lithgow was good as far as he went. Lithgow, Pinto and Cox were underused.

The Icarus thing just seemed completely pointless to me. It muddied the waters for the die-hard POTA fans, yet served no purpose to the plot what-so-ever. It's either a set-up to some sequel, or just a 'clever' nod done clumsily - this movie's 'Thade Lincoln' moment. (Unless, as mentioned, it's not Taylor's mission at all - there was further muffled audio from the TV under Will's dialogue that might answer that question.) For that matter, they didn't need to confuse things by using the name Caesar either, this film could have complimented the original movies quite well without any change to the story, just by using names that didn't contradict what went before.

Mostly the CGI was better than I expected, although the other chimps looked more chimp-like than Caesar. As Whitty said before, it's something to do with the eyes, I think they should be closer together or something? He really reminded me of Gollum actually in some shots. The gorilla and orangs were very well done, and most of the close-up shots of the apes were good, but it lacked a sense of realism for me in the action scenes. Their movements were too fluid and smooth and didn't have the kind of organic tics and individuality that animals naturally have. Worth pointing out though that it's probably a lot easier to render an alien or a mythical creature than a real animal the audience would be very familiar with. Good effects, but still room for improvement. I also don't think it was necessary for Caesar to talk, just to prove how intelligent he had become. It was very evident without that through his actions, and it damaged the plausability (even though it got a reaction from the audience).

I definitely think there was stuff cut from this. The Empire article suggested Cornelia was one of the major players, with her own dedicated CGI stuntwoman, but she was only seen sitting in a cage for a second? And IMDb lists actors such as the neighbour's wife and his kids both as children and as teenagers, plus their friend, plus other characters I can't remember seeing. There's some odd jumps in there too, like when Jacobs is being chased out of the lab building, then a moment later is calmly climbing into a helicopter.

That said, I'm sure I'm being over-critical because I'm a big fan of POTA, and a little protective of it. If any of us had been asked to come up with an 'origin of the POTA' story, we would have come up with something very like this, I think: it's not terribly imaginative, but the other side of that coin is that it's more plausable. What helps is that it's told with a lot of sympathy and empathy. I'll be very interested to hear my non-POTA friends reactions when it goes on general release here. But while others seem to think sequels are required, I don't see them as being either necessary or potentially very good. The most interesting part of the story has been covered, and the only place it can go is 'Battle'. A CGI war movie with hordes of diseased humans fighting apes for two hours? Hmmmm....

- Neil M.

Didn't they grind out all of the "Harry Potter" films in a span of ten
years?

Those were big on CGI, and had big production values, etc. so they can do
movies in less than two years if they really want to... But your guess of two
years for a RISE sequel seems about right...





In a message dated 8/8/2011 6:44:55 PM Central Daylight Time,
veetus@... writes:

> Now 2013 might seem to be too soon. Since "Star Wars" it's usually been 3
> years between sequels for the big movies. But lately the studios have been
> stepping it up to every two years. It was two years between "Transformers"
> movies.

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At the very end, Caesar is looking Will in the eyes, they're the same height, even though he was considerably shorter before. This wonder drug obviously has some side effects. : )

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "munkeyman63au" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> getting smarter doesn't make your legs get longer etc.
>

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I don't think you are being over-critical at all Neil. You have echoed many of things that I find wrong with this film. You even noticed something I didn't, the bit about Jacobs being chased out of the building by hordes of angry apes only for it to cut to the helicopter bit, more sloppiness.

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Moxham" <neilmoxham@...> wrote:
>> That said, I'm sure I'm being over-critical because I'm a big fan of POTA, and a little protective of it.

That's another thing, Jacobs just climbs aboard a police helicopter and is allowed to take charge? As if that would happen.

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> You reminded me of something else. When he gets on the helicopter Jacobs looks like he's got a broken nose or something, his face is bruised.

I wish someone would just ask him if the apes are going to turn into 'classic POTA' apes. I can't see it happening myself.

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> The director says this is a direct prequel to the original, so I think they are trying to make Caesar look like he's on his way to the Roddy look. He's standing tall and also the difference in his face from the other apes is the start of the Chambers appearance. I don't know how far they'll take it, since many modern audiences see the old makeup as campy but maybe a realistic Chambers?

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"NOOO!"

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> "Rise of the POTA" spent some quality time reviving catchphrases from the 1968 original, but does it have any of it's own that will be included in the remake 30 years hence?
>
> http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/08/can_rise_of_the_planet_of_the.html"
>

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"My, he's a smart one isn't he"

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Moxham" <neilmoxham@...> wrote:
>
> "NOOO!"
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> >
> > "Rise of the POTA" spent some quality time reviving catchphrases from the 1968 original, but does it have any of it's own that will be included in the remake 30 years hence?
> >
> > http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/08/can_rise_of_the_planet_of_the.html"
> >
>

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If it's supposed to tie in directly with Planet '68 the Charlton Heston 'cameo' becomes rather dumb doesn't it? Or is it just a massive coincidence that Taylor looks exactly like a movie actor back in Earth's past? Maybe Taylor was an actor and gave it all up to become an astronaut, hmmm... ;- )

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> The director says this is a direct prequel to the original, so I think they are trying to make Caesar look like he's on his way to the Roddy look. He's standing tall and also the difference in his face from the other apes is the start of the Chambers appearance. I don't know how far they'll take it, since many modern audiences see the old makeup as campy but maybe a realistic Chambers?

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If they're morphed like Caesar (or at least developing that look) they
might be able to pull it off if they dress them in more APES "style" clothes...
Some of Haack's sketches were drawn with apes that have traits similar to
"present day" apes and they looked alright...


In a message dated 8/9/2011 2:29:29 AM Central Daylight Time,
smwhitty@... writes:

> Dunno – depends how silly these apes look with clothes is my main
> consideration!

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Well no word from Terry but there is now a banner up for the FORBIDDEN ZINE so someone must be listening out there. It's not a cover like the rest of the publications have and the contact details are out of date so it's pretty useless but still a nice try anyway.

Thanks for the support.

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Sally & Michael" <smwhitty@...> wrote:
>
> Ha! The Forbidden Zine is MENTIONED but it's almost invisible!
>
>
>
> Looks like James designed this for him and "accidentally" wiped out mention
> of his perceived rivals.

Interesting looking at the stats from the Wiki site over the last few weeks - visits seem to have gone up 1000s of per cent. It's telling me its getting 20K to 30K visits a day for the last week, I doubt thats accurate, but it's definitely a sign of renewed interest. On the other hand, after 'Rise', most of the pages viewed are from Burton's film - there seems to be a big perception that the two are linked, or perhaps none of these people have even heard of the original films?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> "Rise" is "relevant" because it's getting people talking and excited about "Apes" again. It's hitting a chord with them.
>
>

I don't think it's Wyatt's intention to remake the original, just to bring it up to that point (but that might not be his decision to make), but would it be possible to bring Heston back to life with CGI? That's two questions - is it technologically possible to make a CGI human believable, and would they be allowed to use his image? My guess is they'll just leave the Icarus thing hanging as a tie-in to the original and concentrate on new characters. Koba, as has been pointed out to me, was an early pseudonym of Stalin - and Wyatt has also hinted Koba might be a 'GENERAL Aldo'-type figure. Or maybe Wyatt is mixing this up with his Animal Farm movie?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> But it's not Taylor, it's the actor Charlton Heston in "The Agony and the Ecstasy". But now that you mention it, there IS a slight resemblance.
>
>
> From: munkeyman63au
> Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2011 6:55 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes' review: Fine
>
>
>
> If it's supposed to tie in directly with Planet '68 the Charlton Heston 'cameo' becomes rather dumb doesn't it? Or is it just a massive coincidence that Taylor looks exactly like a movie actor back in Earth's past? Maybe Taylor was an actor and gave it all up to become an astronaut, hmmm... ;- )
>
> Neil T.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> >
> > The director says this is a direct prequel to the original, so I think they are trying to make Caesar look like he's on his way to the Roddy look. He's standing tall and also the difference in his face from the other apes is the start of the Chambers appearance. I don't know how far they'll take it, since many modern audiences see the old makeup as campy but maybe a realistic Chambers?
>

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