Just looking at the stats on the groups when Burton 's movie was released.

 

WOW!  Record posts.

 

When RISE was released…..with a whisper, not a bang.

 

Michael

> For example, am I to assume nobody has read BETRAYAL or just nobody wants
> to discuss it?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> What 'til you read what he said to the "Rise" poster.
>
> http://collider.com/rise-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-blu-ray-review/133507/
>

> I'm more worried about what he says about the movie:
>
> "RoTPoTA really is the best Apes film ever made."
>
> No it's not mate!

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 10:51 PM, Sal & Mick <smwhitty@...> wrote:

Cover looks good – and they actually look like POTA apes!

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Friday, 23 December 2011 3:26 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Another APES comic

http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&
q= http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2011/12/exile-on-the-planet-of-the-apes-coming-from-boom-in-march/&ct=ga&
cad=CAcQAhgAIAAoATABOAFA4pnN9wRIAVAAWABiBWVuLVVT&cd=VpheK3nY2C8&
usg=AFQjCNEUTDvr98_nuNCsHY8-WlJpHPTOqw</HTML>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Sal & Mick" <smwhitty@...> wrote:
>
> It's just strange to me. It seems ape fans only speak up when they are
> complaining..
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of
> Jeff K.
> Sent: Wednesday, 21 December 2011 11:05 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "Rise" fell
>
>
>
>
>
> "Rise" hit with a bang in the rest of the world. I guess "Ape" fans just
> like Burton's better. It's got makeup!
>
>
>
> From: Sal <mailto:smwhitty@...> & Mick
>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 20, 2011 4:36 PM
>
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subject: [PotaDG] "Rise" fell
>
>
>
>
>
> Just looking at the stats on the groups when Burton's movie was released.
>
> WOW! Record posts.
>
> When RISE was released...with a whisper, not a bang.
>
> Michael
>

On Dec 23, 2011, at 12:25 AM, mlccougar@... wrote:

> http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&
> q= http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2011/12/exile-on-the-planet-of-the-apes-coming-from-boom-in-march/&ct=ga&
> cad=CAcQAhgAIAAoATABOAFA4pnN9wRIAVAAWABiBWVuLVVT&cd=VpheK3nY2C8&
> usg=AFQjCNEUTDvr98_nuNCsHY8-WlJpHPTOqw</HTML>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

DSC08025.JPG

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, jessica rotich <jessicarotich@...> wrote:
>
> Apey Christmas everyone. It was a stellar year for ape fans. May we see
> more apes in the new year.
>
> Jess.
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> Wishing all the DG a Happy Christmas!!!!
>
> Tim
>

Thanks Tim, hope you had a good one

Best,G

On Jan 4, 2012, at 1:21 AM, mlccougar@... wrote:

> <A HREF="http://megomuseum.com/community/showthread.php?t=69353">Click
> here: Neal before CAESAR - Mego Talk</A> </HTML>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

> I like it!
>
> I hope it reads better than the original (well it should flow better
> because the first draft was a "3 pages at a time" story).
>
>
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of
> munkeyman63au
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 10:09 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Beware The Beast Redux question
>
>
>
> Just curious to know if anyone did actually end up checking out the
> revamped version that I uploaded late last year?
> I haven't seen any responses so far and we really did want to know what
> the fans thought of the upgraded version, good or bad.
>
>
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:
>
> I'll try to give it a look pretty soon...
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/10/2012 3:16:52 AM Central Standard Time,
> smwhitty@... writes:
>
>
> > I like it!
> >
> > I hope it reads better than the original (well it should flow better
> > because the first draft was a “3 pages at a time” story).
> >
> >
> >
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of
> > munkeyman63au
> > Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 10:09 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Beware The Beast Redux question
> >
> >
> >
> > Just curious to know if anyone did actually end up checking out the
> > revamped version that I uploaded late last year?
> > I haven't seen any responses so far and we really did want to know what
> > the fans thought of the upgraded version, good or bad.
> >
> >
> >
>
> </HTML>
>

 

Yeah please do.

 

We might pick people from the group list and ask them directly….see if that makes a difference……

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of munkeyman63au
Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 8:38 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Beware The Beast Redux question

 

 

I'll have to upload it all again first! It was only up temporarily before because of lack of space left in the files section.

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:
>
> I'll try to give it a look pretty soon...
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 1/10/2012 3:16:52 AM Central Standard Time,
> smwhitty@... writes:
>
>
> > I like it!
> >
> > I hope it reads better than the original (well it should flow better
> > because the first draft was a “3 pages at a time” story).
> >
> >
> >
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > munkeyman63au
> > Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 10:09 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Beware The Beast Redux question
> >
> >
> >
> > Just curious to know if anyone did actually end up checking out the
> > revamped version that I uploaded late last year?
> > I haven't seen any responses so far and we really did want to know what
> > the fans thought of the upgraded version, good or bad.
> >
> >
> >
>
> </HTML>
>

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim <apefan23@...>
Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:14 am
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Beware The Beast Redux question

> I didnt get a chance to compare when the files were up either...i'd
> love to get a look....
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:41 AM, "Sal & Mick" <smwhitty@...>
> wrote:
> > Yeah please do.
> >
> >
> >
> > We might pick people from the group list and ask them
> directly….see if that makes a difference……
> >
> >
> >
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
> Behalf Of munkeyman63au
> > Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 8:38 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Beware The Beast Redux question
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll have to upload it all again first! It was only up
> temporarily before because of lack of space left in the files section.
> >
> > Neil T.
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:
> > >
> > > I'll try to give it a look pretty soon...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 1/10/2012 3:16:52 AM Central Standard Time,
> > > smwhitty@... writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I like it!
> > > >
> > > > I hope it reads better than the original (well it should flow
> better
> > > > because the first draft was a “3 pages at a time� story).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of
> > > > munkeyman63au
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 10:09 AM
> > > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [PotaDG] Beware The Beast Redux question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just curious to know if anyone did actually end up checking
> out the
> > > > revamped version that I uploaded late last year?
> > > > I haven't seen any responses so far and we really did want to
> know what
> > > > the fans thought of the upgraded version, good or bad.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > </HTML>
> > >
> >
> >
>

On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:

Ditto here. Would love to see it.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim <apefan23@...>
Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:14 am
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Beware The Beast Redux question

> I didnt get a chance to compare when the files were up either...i'd
> love to get a look....
> Tim
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:41 AM, "Sal & Mick" <smwhitty@...>
> wrote:
> > Yeah please do.
> >
> >
> >
> > We might pick people from the group list and ask them
> directly….see if that makes a difference……
> >
> >
> >

> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of munkeyman63au
> > Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 8:38 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Beware The Beast Redux question
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'll have to upload it all again first! It was only up
> temporarily before because of lack of space left in the files section.
> >
> > Neil T.
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@... wrote:
> > >
> > > I'll try to give it a look pretty soon...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > In a message dated 1/10/2012 3:16:52 AM Central Standard Time,
> > > smwhitty@... writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > I like it!
> > > >
> > > > I hope it reads better than the original (well it should flow
> better

> > > > because the first draft was a “3 pages at a time� story).

> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of
> > > > munkeyman63au
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 10:09 AM
> > > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [PotaDG] Beware The Beast Redux question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just curious to know if anyone did actually end up checking
> out the
> > > > revamped version that I uploaded late last year?
> > > > I haven't seen any responses so far and we really did want to
> know what
> > > > the fans thought of the upgraded version, good or bad.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > </HTML>
> > >
> >
> >
>

------------------------------------

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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, jessica rotich <jessicarotich@...> wrote:
>
> Yes I could not find it last time.
>
> Jess.
>
> On Tue, Jan 10, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
>
> > Ditto here. Would love to see it.
> >
> > Dario
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Tim <apefan23@...>
> > Date: Tuesday, January 10, 2012 6:14 am
> > Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Beware The Beast Redux question
> >
> > > I didnt get a chance to compare when the files were up either...i'd
> > > love to get a look....
> > > Tim
> > >
> > > Sent from my iPhone
> > >
> > > On Jan 10, 2012, at 5:41 AM, "Sal & Mick" <smwhitty@...>
> > > wrote:
> > > > Yeah please do.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > We might pick people from the group list and ask them
> > > directly….see if that makes a difference……
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
> > > Behalf Of munkeyman63au
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 8:38 PM
> > > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Beware The Beast Redux question
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'll have to upload it all again first! It was only up
> > > temporarily before because of lack of space left in the files section.
> > > >
> > > > Neil T.
> > > >
> > > > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, mlccougar@ wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll try to give it a look pretty soon...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In a message dated 1/10/2012 3:16:52 AM Central Standard Time,
> > > > > smwhitty@ writes:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > I like it!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hope it reads better than the original (well it should flow
> > > better
> > > > > > because the first draft was a “3 pages at a timeâ€? story).
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
> > > On Behalf Of
> > > > > > munkeyman63au
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, 10 January 2012 10:09 AM
> > > > > > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [PotaDG] Beware The Beast Redux question
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Just curious to know if anyone did actually end up checking
> > > out the
> > > > > > revamped version that I uploaded late last year?
> > > > > > I haven't seen any responses so far and we really did want to
> > > know what
> > > > > > the fans thought of the upgraded version, good or bad.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > </HTML>
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Moxham" <neilmoxham@...> wrote:

> ...but, in an altered timeline, the 2670 Lawgiver would be remembering events caused by the appearance and death of Zira & Cornelius. This would be a 'changed future' in which he exists. The principle of two timelines would mean that Zira & Cornelius' back-story/origin/history was different, was not caused by the actions of Hasslein, nor - paradoxically - by their own appearance in the past. They could therefore not know about the Escape/Conquest/Battle sequence of events because in their timeline these events never happened (or happened very differently). For that reason, no amount of Sacred/Secret Scrolls could have recorded the death of the son of a chimp called Caesar at the hands of a gorilla called Aldo, because that didn't happen until history was altered. I would even suggest that the 2670 Lawgiver was intended to be either the same Lawgiver we see statues of in 'Planet', but with a radically changed attitude due to altered history, or an alternative kindly Lawgiver who supplanted the original Lawgiver's role in history, again because of an altered timeline.

> And that's why I think the ending of Battle is open to interpretation, because if - IF - you were to follow the logic of a second timeline (as hinted at by Virgil) then the ending would imply a very different future for the Earth. Admittedly, the scenes with Alma and Mendez contradict that somewhat, but again, bear in mind that these scenes were cut from the original film for a reason.
====================================================

A couple of things...

First, there are at least two reasons to conclude that the Lawgiver we see in BATTLE (played by John Huston) isn't and cannot be the same 'original' Lawgiver-changed-by-an-altered-timeline. 

Reason #1: Whether you date PLANET and BENEATH to 3978 or 3955, it is established that the Lawgiver who wrote the Sacred Scrolls wrote them "twelve hundred years ago" -- i.e. he wrote them circa 2755 to 2778... which is a good 85-to-108 years after the date "A.D. 2670", when an already aged Lawgiver is telling his audience of child Humans, Chimpanzees, and Orangutans the story of Caesar. The prologue/epilogue scenes of BATTLE take place just three years of Earth-Time before the first Earth-Time date we see in PLANET: "3-23-2673" -- which is why Dehn referred to the APES films as having a "circular" timeline: it had come full circle. The 'Lawgiver' who wrote the Sacred Scrolls did so well after the death of the old orangutan portrayed by Huston.

Reason #2 : We know that the sculptor who sculpted the statue of Caesar was able to make it look like the ape it was meant to portray. Picture the ape we see in CONQUEST and BATTLE ... add several decades of age to him, since the statue portrays him as older and as having written the scroll that autobiographically told "his story" (which he bequeathed to posterity, to the society of tolerant Apes and Humans he had ruled)... and, in my opinion, the sculptor did a fair job making his work of art resemble his subject closely. Caesar's statue looks like Caesar.

Now, compare the 'look' of the John Huston orangutan -- especially his hairstyle -- with the famous statue of the Lawgiver from PLANET and BENEATH . Compare, also, the set of glyphs on the Huston-Lawgiver's duds with those carved onto the Lawgiver statue. The hairstyles and the glyphs, respectively, are obviously different . I would argue that if the ape artist who sculpted Caesar's statue could do so well enough to portray him recognizably... then an equal-to-the-task ape sculptor would've done a similarly competent job portraying "the greatest ape of all"... but he/she doesn't, didn't, or will not (pick a tense!). The Lawgiver statue does not look like the Lawgiver from BATTLE.

The other thing...

Assume, for a moment, that the appearance of the Ape-onauts did change things, leading to the world being saved by the 'advent' of Caesar. Assume further -- as so many POTA fans seem to want to -- that Cornelius and Zira were completely honest when they were being interrogated by Hasslein and the two goons from the CIA. Let's assume these two things. Where does it take us?

Cornelius tells them that the first known talking ape -- the one who was the first to refuse to serve a human master in a vocal way, rather than merely grunting his refusal -- was named ALDO . Cornelius tells hostile human interrogators the actual name of the great simian revolutionary who began the Ape Revolt.

In the TERMINATOR franchise, the genocidal machines were able to target the leader of the human resistance with a time-traveling assassin because they knew his name: John Connor . By sending  a cyborg back in time, to kill the mother -- whose name was also known (Sarah Connor ) -- they had a chance to change history (or, so they thought) and prevent a human victory against their attempted genocide. All they had to do was get Arnold to look through the phonebook and then go on a killing spree, murdering every woman named 'Sarah Connor' in the hopes that one of them would be the Sarah Connor who gave birth to their foe, John Connor.

If Cornelius truly believed that the first talking ape was named Aldo... then why would he endanger him by exposing his name to hostile humans? What's to prevent Hasslein (or, some successor of his, later on) from reasoning that any ape that is known by the name 'Aldo' in the future constitutes a potential threat to Mankind? Whether 'Aldo' shows up five centuries later (in the implied future timeline given during this interrogation), or fairly soon (say, a few decades in the future, once Ape slavery has begun)... any ape that just happens to have been named 'Aldo' will be a candidate for assassination by fearful humans who don't want the riled up Apes to have a talking leader to rally around.

I think it makes more sense to think of Cornelius providing Hasslein with the name 'Aldo' for a more sensible reason: to prevent (if he can) the murder of his own grandson by the simian 'Cain' whom he knows had been named Aldo. Knowing that the real talking ape who led the Apes to a victory against their Human oppressors was actually named 'Caesar', Cornelius would not have jeopardized his life by telling Hasslein his name. Why risk having hostile humans target any ape named 'Caesar' (which would put his own son in danger), when he has the opportunity (perhaps) to get Hasslein and his ilk to target any ape named 'Aldo'... and perhaps prevent the death of Caesar's heir?

Remember, there was more than one 'Aldo'... the gorilla who killed Caesar's heir (in BATTLE ), and an earlier ape, the chimpanzee who just happened to work for Governor Breck as a messenger ape, the one whose shellacking led to Caesar yelling "Lousy human bastards!" in the Civic Center area. I don't think it's a coincidence that Breck owns -- and keeps an eye on -- an ape named 'Aldo' well before Armando brings Caesar into this city. It makes sense that Breck, of all people, would go out of his way to be in possession of any ape bearing the name 'Aldo'... since it's the one name that Cornelius gave to his interrogators regarding the future downfall of Man, led by a talking ape.

Breck's not on the lookout for an ape named 'Caesar' because Cornelius wasn't stupid enough to provide that name to his interrogators, thereby endangering him. 

Why is it that some POTA fans just want want want the 5-film saga to have a happy ending? Caesar saved the world! Yay! Let's all sing 'Kumbaya' and forget all about the billions of people incinerated in the global thermonuclear war that ended human civilization. 

The first 4 films all have shocking, unsettling, upsetting endings. Caesar wants the world to go on forever... not to end the way his own parents witnessed it. He does what he can to try to prevent that. He wants the world to endure well beyond the year "3950" (when he believes the world of his parents was destroyed).

But there's a bullet with the world's name on it: the Doomsday Bomb. It's out there, awaiting the moment when one person -- and it only takes one -- is in the right place at the right time, and with the right frame-of-mind, to detonate it. That bomb exists because a group of religious nuts, who have come to believe that it is the instrument of God (even God itself), will spend almost two thousand years preserving it... keeping it operational. 

There's no evidence that Caesar even knew that Kolp's people were in possession of the very Doomsday Bomb which would explode within sight of his orbiting parents. Sure... if Caesar can find some way to end the trend of history -- of racial conflict, religious conflict, political conflict -- then maybe, just maybe, he can hope to have saved the world.

... and, right on cue, a chimp boy yanks on a human girl's hair... and she turns around and pushes him down... Ah, a conflict. Surely, just playful hijinks between two whippersnappers. Right?

Why does that chimp yank on her hair? Perhaps he does it to punish her for not showing proper respect to their teacher. After all, she does say, in a somewhat dubious tone-of-voice, "Lawgiver? Who knows about the future?" It's as if she is blowing raspberries at the very notion that the so-called "savior" sent by "God" actually changed things, so that the "saved" Future can be known, even though the intervening centuries haven't even gotten past the 1/3rd mark yet. A lot can happen in the remaining thirteen centuries. Hell, a lot can happen in a mere 85 years or so... the interval between A.D. 2670 and A.D. 2755. That cynical little human girl has every reason to be cynical... and so do you lousy human bastards who've seen each Apes film end in shocking, unsettling, and upsetting ways. Why should BATTLE be any different? 

Brent gets Taylor to accompany him to the Cathedral... in order to do something about that dangerous atomic bomb that those crazy mutants have been worshiping for 20 centuries... and, lo and behold, Taylor winds up being the one who detonates it. Maybe if Brent had left Taylor to mourn over the corpse of Nova, and gone on alone to the Cathedral with that rifle, maybe he could've found a way to avert the End of the World. But no... he has to bring Taylor along with him... a man who has just exclaimed, "I should let them all die! The gorillas, every damned--look what it comes to! It's time it was finished!"

Brent's attempt to save the world failed miserably. And he was there, at the right place and at the right time, to do something about it. Yet he failed. The clusterfuck of racial/religious/political conflict culminated in its obvious and inevitable conclusion. Apocalypse. What hope -- what real hope, hope that you can count on -- should Caesar's six-centuries-later society cling to? Hope that the Future really was (or will be) saved? Or that it could be saved, in time... in another twelve hundred and eighty-some years of time?

That cynical little girl was right to voice her doubts. And, her lack-of-respect for their Lawgiver, I think, prompts an ape to put her in her place, to punish her for doubting the efficacy of their "savior's" intervention in History. He uses physical violence to get back at her. And he attacks her from behind ; she doesn't even see it coming. One second she's cynically asking a valid question of their teacher, and the next second she's experiencing having her pony-tail yanked on by the chimp behind her. 

Which proves the point. Conflict doesn't end. Even these children, simian and human, are trapped by the shared history of Conflict between Ape and Man. Roddenberry's STAR TREK presents us with a rosy view of the Future where there still is conflict, true, but we survive and thrive, and live in a harmony that people in the 1960's could only hope for, for the sake of future generations. The APES saga presents us with the darker view of the Future where our ingrained faults have brought an end to our very civilization. We invent weapons of mass destruction... and eventually use them. It's who we are and what we do. Zaius, in PLANET, was only the latest in the line of Guardians of the Terrible Secret ... who perpetuated policies that were designed to keep the Human Race in a state of barbarism, incapable of building more weapons like the ones that turned a 'paradise' into the lifeless Forbidden Zone.

But there's that "lovely souvenir from the 20th Century" lurking below the surface... both figuratively and literally. As long as it's out there, kept operational by crazy bastards who deem it the only reason for their existence, the world is doomed . That's the sad, dark truth. That's the way POTA stories end, folks. There ain't no singin' kumbaya!

Patrick

P.S. Let it not be said, though, that it is appropriate for peoples in conflict to just throw up their hands and give up trying to escape the trap of a shared history of conflict. In To Kill a Mockingbird , Atticus Finch knew beforehand that his legal defense of a black man accused of rape would be a failure... but he did his best anyway. He tried, despite the odds being stacked against him. Doing the right thing -- even when you know you'll fail -- is still worth doing. The lesson of the POTA saga is like the Kobayashi Maru test -- as it was intended, mind you, not as it became due to Kirk's cheating. It's a No-Win-Scenario... but, how we deal with death is at least as important as how we deal with life. Nuff said.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
In the original POTA the actors were on screen but all you saw were their eyes and their movement. How different is that from performance capture?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>Some might even say the performance is purer than with makeup because they can concentrate on acting without the strain of the makeup (claustrophobia, etc.).

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Tim <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> I didnt get a chance to compare when the files were up either...i'd love to get a look....

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
> I also heard this was a tough scene to CG because Andy couldn't have the face camera (pressing up against the glass). I guess that just underlines how much they relied on his performance.
>
> http://collider.com/behind-the-scenes-rise-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-video-proves-why-andy-serkis-deserves-an-oscar-nomination/138255/
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> It was Quentin Tarantino's 2nd favorite movie of the year. What more do you need to know?
>
> http://www.deadline.com/2012/01/quentin-tarantino-midnight-in-paris-2011s-best-rise-of-the-planet-of-the-apes-2nd/
>
>
>
> From: munkeyman63au
> Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 3:27 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] When I watched Rise on DVD the other night
>
>
>
> I started taking notes of things that irked me but gave up pretty quickly (I would have run out of paper I think ;-)).
> A couple of things though - if Caesar is so smart how come he is fooled by that painting on the walls of the primate sanctuary, even when he is up close?
> Why is there a garbage bin out on the road between the car Lithgow tries to drive and the one in front of him that he crashes into along with said bin?
> I also noticed when I slowed it down that Caesar does not actually bite off the neighbour's finger, you can clearly see the whole finger with some blood on the knuckle after it's been in his mouth, doesn't even look like there's any damage apart from some blood on it.
> And I know great apes are stronger than humans but could an oranutan really throw a manhole cover as far as it does when it hits the cop car windscreen?
>
> Neil T.
>