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Reminder from:		PotaDG Yahoo! Group
Title:		Jerry Goldsmith's Birthday
Date:		Friday February 10, 2012
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Notes:		Happy Birthday Jerry! (Composer: Planet of the Apes (1968) & Escape from the Planet of the Apes (1971))
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I've tried and failed to get definite publishing dates for the early editions, it'd be nice to get a solid answer. Related to that is the whole claim by Jacobs (repeated many places on the internet) that he bought the film rghts even before the book was published - something I'm skeptical about.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "munkeyman63au" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> Well anyway here's the full French text from inside the book. If anyone here is good at translating French to English away you go, it would be nice to have a 'proper' translation instead of a computerised one!
>
>
> Realise d'apres les maquettes
> de Jeanine Fricker
> cet ouvrage
> compose en gloucester corps 12
> a ete acheve d'imprimer
> le 8 Janvier 1963
> sur les presses des Imprimeries Oberthur a Rennnes
> et relie par Prache de Franclieu
> a Choisy-le-Roi
>
> Il fait partie
> d'une edition originale numerotee
>
> Exemplaire
>
> No 000556 B
>
> Le Cercle du nouveau livre
> 352, rue Saint-Honore a Paris 1er
>
> d'Edition : 4 d'imprimeur : 6364 Depot legal : 1er trimestre 1963
>
>
> Neil T.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> >
> > The 35th anniversary POTA DVD says it was published in France on May 17 1963. But I don't know were they got that date.
> >
> >
> > From: munkeyman63au
> > Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 5:31 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Where would YOU put "Rise 2"?
> >
> >
> >
> > By Boulle's anniversary do you mean the anniversary of when the original novel was released?
> > According to the publishing details inside my French first edition hardback there is a date of January 8, 1963
> >
> > Not sure if this is the actual publication date as the French text translates to roughly 'was completed to print on January 8, 1963'.
> >
> > Neil T.
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Someone said May 17 is the Boulle anniversary because it says so on the 35th anniversary DVD's DVD-ROM.
> >
>

To be completely fair, there was also a certain amount of re-dubbing of dialogue on the original films where the voices sounded muffled, and also that re-fried ending to Conquest with the new dialogue and backwards footage, but that doesn't really compare to what happens today. I think Serkis is a very good actor in the straight roles I've seen, but mo-cap probably deserves a new catagory, as in, an award for the entire team behind a particular character for example. Don't forget that there wasn't even a category for make-up when Chambers won an honourary (honorary?) award.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "gort65" <gort65@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "munkeyman63au" <ntfoster@> wrote:
> >
> > Wasn't done by Serkis according to this article:
> >
> > http://www.filmindependent.org/filmmaker-spotlight/five-films-the-sounds-the-thing/
> >
> > Not only was his performance enhanced by the computer artists he didn't even do all his own vocal acting. And people think he should have been up for an acting award? Beggars belief.
> >
> > Neil T.
> >
>
> My problem with suggesting that Serkis deserves an award for his acting as Caesar is simply that a hell of a lot of post-processing happens with MoCap. This can range from tweaking of scenes where the actor hasn't nuanced his performance enough, major edits where the actor hasn't come up with what's required (for whatever reason), to total recreation of the digital "actor" by the animators because either the actor can't do what's needed or messed it up. Many of those special scenes with Caesar would have been fully rendered by the animators, and you'll not know which ones. What's Serkis's acting and what's been digitally created? No one will know.
>
> Another thing is that the difference between competent acting and great acting is subtle, a subtlety that can be bridged by the editing of the CGI by the animators. Sorry, but I'm not going to give acting awards to Serkis on trust for what I see when the image I see isn't tangible and has a lot of doubt as to who controlled it. I do think that if Serkis and the animators got a joint award in a special digital template award, then that'd be fine, but Serkis's performance alone can't justify an award, in my book. It's also dishonest and insulting to the animators for ignoring their contribution.
>
> BTW, prosthetics on PotA required acting skill to master, a tangible thing that actually happened. Not the same thing.
>
>
> Graham
>

Lew Ayres apparently became a conscientious objector during WWII, based on his experience of making this film, which nearly killed his acting career because it was seen as unpatriotic. He proved his bravery by volunteering for the army medical corps in the Pacific theatre. In the early '60s, he was asked to reprise his most famous film character 'Dr. Kildare' for TV, but refused when he found out it would be sponsored by a cigarette company (Richard Chamberlain got the job). I would say a man of such principles was tailor-made for the role of Mandemus.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> It's Universal's 100th birthday, and to celebrate they have remastered certain of their gems for blu-ray. One of these is "All Quiet on the Western Front" (1930), one of the true war classics. It starred our own Lew ("Mandemus") Ayres. Since this is often called the greatest anti-war film ever, maybe it's fitting that it starred "the keeper of Caesar's conscience".
>
> http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews28/all_quiet_on_the_western_front.htm
>

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I guess that's what I'm getting at – the FX now replaces the makeup.

 

I do agree that the only way Serkis should get a Grammy for acting is if the reviewers were shown his parts WITHOUT the effects and simply judged on that.  That could work?

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Neil Moxham
Sent: Friday, 10 February 2012 11:35 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The voice of Caesar...

 

 

To be completely fair, there was also a certain amount of re-dubbing of dialogue on the original films where the voices sounded muffled, and also that re-fried ending to Conquest with the new dialogue and backwards footage, but that doesn't really compare to what happens today. I think Serkis is a very good actor in the straight roles I've seen, but mo-cap probably deserves a new catagory, as in, an award for the entire team behind a particular character for example. Don't forget that there wasn't even a category for make-up when Chambers won an honourary (honorary?) award.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "gort65" <gort65@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "munkeyman63au" <ntfoster@> wrote:
> >
> > Wasn't done by Serkis according to this article:
> >
> > http://www.filmindependent.org/filmmaker-spotlight/five-films-the-sounds-the-thing/
> >
> > Not only was his performance enhanced by the computer artists he didn't even do all his own vocal acting. And people think he should have been up for an acting award? Beggars belief.
> >
> > Neil T.
> >
>
> My problem with suggesting that Serkis deserves an award for his acting as Caesar is simply that a hell of a lot of post-processing happens with MoCap. This can range from tweaking of scenes where the actor hasn't nuanced his performance enough, major edits where the actor hasn't come up with what's required (for whatever reason), to total recreation of the digital "actor" by the animators because either the actor can't do what's needed or messed it up. Many of those special scenes with Caesar would have been fully rendered by the animators, and you'll not know which ones. What's Serkis's acting and what's been digitally created? No one will know.
>
> Another thing is that the difference between competent acting and great acting is subtle, a subtlety that can be bridged by the editing of the CGI by the animators. Sorry, but I'm not going to give acting awards to Serkis on trust for what I see when the image I see isn't tangible and has a lot of doubt as to who controlled it. I do think that if Serkis and the animators got a joint award in a special digital template award, then that'd be fine, but Serkis's performance alone can't justify an award, in my book. It's also dishonest and insulting to the animators for ignoring their contribution.
>
> BTW, prosthetics on PotA required acting skill to master, a tangible thing that actually happened. Not the same thing.
>
>
> Graham
>

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A few interesting things in the snippet. The word 'maquette' is for a
mockup or model. I did not know what to make of that, but a clue comes a
few lines down with 'gloucester corps 12'. Gloucester is a font name. So
it seems that the initial manuscript was set to printing plates by this
Jeanine Fricker using a gloucester font and the plates were completed on
the 8th of January. It basically says it was ready to print on the 8th,
but not necessarily printed on that date. The actual printing is just
listed at the bottom as the first trimester of 1963, which would mean
any time in the first 4 months of the year.

Neil can you confirm that the font used in the book is this
'gloucester' font, a sample of which you can see here:
http://www.ascendercorp.com/font/gloucester/
(Note the funny looking 'G's. Should be easy to spot!)

But the more interesting aspect is the word "Examplaire" standing out
in the middle, alone. I don't think that this book was supposed to be a
final edition meant to be sold as a mass volume print run. I think this
was a very limited print that was supposed to be used for final
editing/spell check and copy editing.

You may have in your hands a book that is rarer than you think.

Dario

On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:27:46 +0000, munkeyman63au wrote:
> Well anyway here's the full French text from inside the book. If
> anyone here is good at translating French to English away you go, it
> would be nice to have a 'proper' translation instead of a
> computerised
> one!
>
>
> Realise d'apres les maquettes
> de Jeanine Fricker
> cet ouvrage
> compose en gloucester corps 12
> a ete acheve d'imprimer
> le 8 Janvier 1963
> sur les presses des Imprimeries Oberthur a Rennnes
> et relie par Prache de Franclieu
> a Choisy-le-Roi
>
> Il fait partie
> d'une edition originale numerotee
>
> Exemplaire
>
> No 000556 B
>
> Le Cercle du nouveau livre
> 352, rue Saint-Honore a Paris 1er
>
> d'Edition : 4 d'imprimeur : 6364 Depot legal : 1er trimestre 1963
>
>
> Neil T.
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>>
>> The 35th anniversary POTA DVD says it was published in France on
>> May 17 1963. But I don't know were they got that date.
>>
>>
>> From: munkeyman63au
>> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 5:31 AM
>> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Where would YOU put "Rise 2"?
>>
>>
>>
>> By Boulle's anniversary do you mean the anniversary of when the
>> original novel was released?
>> According to the publishing details inside my French first edition
>> hardback there is a date of January 8, 1963
>>
>> Not sure if this is the actual publication date as the French text
>> translates to roughly 'was completed to print on January 8, 1963'.
>>
>> Neil T.
>>
>> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
>> >
>> > Someone said May 17 is the Boulle anniversary because it says so
>> on the 35th anniversary DVD's DVD-ROM.
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

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Yes it's definitely 'gloucester' Dario. Not sure if it is some sort of limited print run though as most of the ones I've seen on eBay etc. all had the same text in them. They are usually all listed as having a limited edition number. I actually have another copy and that has the same text but a different number, of course (000992 P). Here's another one on eBay right now as well (I didn't pay anywhere near that much for either of mine, wow!):

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/NEAR-FINE-PLANET-APES-PIERRE-BOULLE-TRUE-FRENCH-1ST-1ST-EDITION-/250764960244?pt=Antiquarian_Collectible&hash=item3a62c1a1f4

Also forgot to mention that the text is at the back of the book, not sure if there is any significance in that or not though but I'm mostly used to seeing that sort of stuff at the beginning of a book.

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Dario Sciola <darios@...> wrote:
>
>
> A few interesting things in the snippet. The word 'maquette' is for a
> mockup or model. I did not know what to make of that, but a clue comes a
> few lines down with 'gloucester corps 12'. Gloucester is a font name. So
> it seems that the initial manuscript was set to printing plates by this
> Jeanine Fricker using a gloucester font and the plates were completed on
> the 8th of January. It basically says it was ready to print on the 8th,
> but not necessarily printed on that date. The actual printing is just
> listed at the bottom as the first trimester of 1963, which would mean
> any time in the first 4 months of the year.
>
> Neil can you confirm that the font used in the book is this
> 'gloucester' font, a sample of which you can see here:
> http://www.ascendercorp.com/font/gloucester/
> (Note the funny looking 'G's. Should be easy to spot!)
>
> But the more interesting aspect is the word "Examplaire" standing out
> in the middle, alone. I don't think that this book was supposed to be a
> final edition meant to be sold as a mass volume print run. I think this
> was a very limited print that was supposed to be used for final
> editing/spell check and copy editing.
>
> You may have in your hands a book that is rarer than you think.
>
> Dario
>
> On Fri, 10 Feb 2012 04:27:46 +0000, munkeyman63au wrote:
> > Well anyway here's the full French text from inside the book. If
> > anyone here is good at translating French to English away you go, it
> > would be nice to have a 'proper' translation instead of a
> > computerised
> > one!
> >
> >
> > Realise d'apres les maquettes
> > de Jeanine Fricker
> > cet ouvrage
> > compose en gloucester corps 12
> > a ete acheve d'imprimer
> > le 8 Janvier 1963
> > sur les presses des Imprimeries Oberthur a Rennnes
> > et relie par Prache de Franclieu
> > a Choisy-le-Roi
> >
> > Il fait partie
> > d'une edition originale numerotee
> >
> > Exemplaire
> >
> > No 000556 B
> >
> > Le Cercle du nouveau livre
> > 352, rue Saint-Honore a Paris 1er
> >
> > d'Edition : 4 d'imprimeur : 6364 Depot legal : 1er trimestre 1963
> >
> >
> > Neil T.
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> >>
> >> The 35th anniversary POTA DVD says it was published in France on
> >> May 17 1963. But I don't know were they got that date.
> >>
> >>
> >> From: munkeyman63au
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2012 5:31 AM
> >> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Where would YOU put "Rise 2"?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> By Boulle's anniversary do you mean the anniversary of when the
> >> original novel was released?
> >> According to the publishing details inside my French first edition
> >> hardback there is a date of January 8, 1963
> >>
> >> Not sure if this is the actual publication date as the French text
> >> translates to roughly 'was completed to print on January 8, 1963'.
> >>
> >> Neil T.
> >>
> >> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Someone said May 17 is the Boulle anniversary because it says so
> >> on the 35th anniversary DVD's DVD-ROM.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

I think that may mean before it was published in the USA. I have read somewhere that he had the French original translated for him or something like that?

Neil T.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Moxham" <neilmoxham@...> wrote:
>
> the whole claim by Jacobs (repeated many places on the internet) that he bought the film rghts even before the book was published - something I'm skeptical about.

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*** What did their book critic think of it? Good? Bad? Somewhere in
between? ***


In a message dated 2/10/2012 6:48:45 PM Central Standard Time,
veetus@... writes:

>
>
>
> I have the "Time" magazine review (the actual issue) which was the week
> after JFK was assassinated, so it came out in the U.S. around November.
>
>
> From: <A HREF="mailto:ntfoster@...">munkeyman63au</A>
> Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 1:48 PM
> To: <A HREF="mailto:PotaDG@yahoogroups.com"> PotaDG@yahoogroups.com</A>
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Where would YOU put "Rise 2"?
>
>
>
>
> I think that may mean before it was published in the USA. I have read
> somewhere that he had the French original translated for him or something
> like that?
>
>

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I thought I had bought my ticket for the marathon. Apparently I never completed the transaction. Now I'm told it's sold out! NOOOOO! Does anyone have an extra ticket?


Jeff B

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Was just informed that more tickets opened up. Relief!

On Fri, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:11 PM, Jeff Barkley <skintricks62@...> wrote:

I thought I had bought my ticket for the marathon. Apparently I never completed the transaction. Now I'm told it's sold out! NOOOOO! Does anyone have an extra ticket?


Jeff B

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Attachments :

DSC08170.JPG

Ongoing project...

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This is a sad loss to the world. From what I'd read about her over the past few years, she seemed like a really inspiring person. There was a short interview with her in Simian Scrolls #8:

https://pota.v.kassidyrae.com/zina_bethune.pdf

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> We know Zina as Arn from "The Legacy". That was my favorite POTA episode and I've always liked the chemistry between the makeshift family of Virdon, Arn and Kraik. Plus it had great settings (including the "Young Frankenstein" castle) and good interplay between Urko and Zauis. I watched "The Legacy" tonight, as well as "Who's That Knocking On My Door?". Zina was the star of Martin Scorsese's first feature film, opposite Harvey Keitel in his screen debut (Jackie Earle "Kraik" Haley worked with Scorsese 40 years later on "Shutter Island").
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOKXZ301PK8
>
> This doesn't have anything to do with the movie but it's got cool apes with weapons:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Z5GOgsiV4
>
> Zina's passion was bringing the arts to disabled kids and it's one of those unfair things that her end was so violent. But the life she lived was filled with what she loved doing. Thanks for enriching us, Zina.
>
> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/02/dancer-zina-bethune-killed.html"
>
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0079203/
>

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--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:

>
> Tomorrow I will see my first ever POTA marathon. I've never seen more than 2 Apes back to back (which isn't a marathon, it's a double feature). Is there such a thing as too much Apes? I'm afraid.
> Let's hear them. The POTA marathon stories.
>

Good luck with that. I do hope you survive to tell the tale. :) Like you, the most I've done is two films at a time. I tend to prefer savouring my food instead of gorging. So, just make sure you chew properly and not choke... albeit in film digestion terms.

BTW, the only PotA marathon story I could come up with would be some decades ago when I might have watched PotA while eating what's now called Snickers. ;)


Graham

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So they weren't "wrong" when they helped promote the Burton film on their
awards show? They did that and I would guess that a lot of people would think
they were wrong in doing that so it shows that Apes and MTV don't always
make the best combo...


In a message dated 2/17/2012 10:51:59 AM Central Standard Time,
veetus@... writes:

> MTV sez "Rise" is going to win. Have they ever been wrong? Noooo! What
> MTV sez, goes!

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I tried to stay, but after a long 4 hour (normally 2.5 hours ) drive and 7 hours in the theater, my back was killing me. And I still had the drive home. I had a fun time, though. I was surprised that there weren't more POTAphiles attending. I was also hoping there would've been some kind of display, but oh well.

On Feb 19, 2012 1:54 PM, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:

Uncut "Battle" and there really wasn't much of a hitch with the new footage, it all looked great. Of course, it's the same blu ray everybody has.

One thing I forgot to mention was the music was really loud, so it accentuated the good, the bad and the ugly. Some of the POTA music can be annoying.

From: Sal & Mick

Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:42 PM

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] 10 hours of "Apes"

Jeff – what an experience!

Thanks for sharing and being so thorough!

It's interesting they showed the BLOODY version on Conquest.

Was it STANDARD Battle or the uncut?

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Monday, 20 February 2012 7:24 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] 10 hours of "Apes"

The POTA marathon at the famous Egyptian Theater (2/18/12) went on for 10 hours, from 5 PM to 3 AM. Let's see what I can relate from my still foggy brain...

First of all, it definitely wasn't a sell out. It filled the usual 1/3rd capacity, with a mix of die hards and newbies determined to stick it out. So there was still quite a few people left at the end. The highlight of entering the theater was Jeff Barkley dressed as Julius and also someone as an ANSAnaut. Certainly added an event feel to something with such a disappointing turnout.

It started off with screening a print of "Planet". They said it was a new print but I doubt it. I've seen "Planet" in a theater so many times, I enjoyed watching it but the print was nothing special. It was an enthusiastic audience mixed with the usual individuals who maybe enjoy the "camp" appeal of Heston's performance too much.

Q & A

Next was the Q & A with Eric Braeden (Hasslein), Don Murray (Breck), H.M. Wynant (Hoskyns), Austin Stoker (MacDonald # 2) and Lou Wagner (Lucius), pinch hitting for the under the weather Linda Harrison. Obviously the idea was to have someone from each film and technically Lou was in "Beneath". The moderator was Steven Jay Rubin.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0746169/

Lou was asked how he got involved and said he had hazel eyes and the apes needed brown eyes but he was willing to wear contacts or whatever it took and the director liked that.

They were asked to talk about Arthur Jacobs and Don Murray offered he was an old school producer who wasn't cynical. He didn't feel Arthur was portrayed accurately in the Oscar-nominated movie "My Weekend With Marilyn".

Eric Braeden apologized for being a stick in the mud but he has no interest in science-fiction and had no interest in POTA. He was there for a paycheck. He prefers stories with "realism". He admitted sometimes he didn't even know what Hasslein was talking about but he was able to sell the dialogue. And he felt Hasslein had a justified view, though the obvious sympathy was with the apes. He also said he had no interest in Hollywood parties and got involved with "Escape" through one of Jacobs' famous ping pong tournaments. He also mentioned he had worked on Jacobs' ill-fated sci-fi movie "Journey of the Oceanauts" which never got made because Arthur died.

H. M. Wynant said he didn't remember the "Conquest" experience but he remembered the people. He compared J. Lee Thompson to Franklin Schaffner in terms of being "mathematical" as a director (I guess that means being prepared, knowing what he wants, getting the most out of it visually he could). He had known Don Murray long before "Conquest". In fact, he considered Don's father Denny Murray to be one of his mentors. He considers "Conquest" one of his projects that will live forever, even though Hoskyns wasn't one of his biggest roles.

Austin Stoker mentioned during filming of "Battle" the orangutans (led by Paul Williams) breaking into a Supremes song and that was the first time he saw J. Lee laugh on set. He said he was cast in "Battle" because he sounded like the previous MacDonald, Hari Rhodes. In fact he remembered seeing a photo of Rhodes out of the corner of his eye and thinking it was his own mother at first. Both MacDonalds had similar facial features.

Don Murray mentioned learning his Breck lines in German and saying them with that intonation. The different versions of "Conquest" were brought up and Don said from his point of view they had decided to bring him back in "Battle" and that's why he survived. But he had no interest in repeating the role, not because he didn't like it but because he had "done it" and once was enough. Don also said the themes of POTA are eternal and ones we still struggle with and that's why the films will live forever.

Lou Wagner said he studied chimps for his role and when Roddy got around to showing him the chimp walk Roddy had developed, it was the same walk Lou had developed on his own.

Someone asked the difference between making films then and making them now. Braeden said he likes modern films because there's more realism and even TV like Showtime, etc. is more interesting. Don Murray said the advantage of older movies is they didn't use CG for everything and stuff was real. He's not a fan of CG (though somehow no one brought up "Rise of the POTA").

It ended with them being asked about current projects. Lou said he is on "Raising Hope" from time to time. Don mentioned "Breathe", a movie he did with his sons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL8KUk76ryI . Braeden said he's been lucky to have worked on "The Young and the Restless" for 32 years.

They hung around a little bit for photos and autographs and then it was back to the movies, or more specifically, the blu-rays.

"Beneath": looked fine on blu-ray but couldn't compare to the print I saw in 2007. There's something off on the "Beneath" blu ray. But newbies in the audience couldn't believe the ending and were wondering if this was the last movie. Where could they go from here?

"Escape": looked fine. I'd seen the blu ray screened at the Egyptian about a year ago. Good movie.

"Conquest": My favorite movie of the marathon. For starters I'd never seen "Conquest" (or "Battle") in a theater. Plus, in watching all 5 it stands out with the most unique look. It just looked great in a theater. They did the recently found "violent" version and of course it looks even bloodier on a big screen, the bloody bastards. Yeah, I can kind of see now why mothers were dragging their kids out of the theater at the Phoenix test showing. But it would have been interesting if it had been released back then (with a music tweak). Maybe they could've released both versions. The bleak ending is intensified in a theater (at least that's how it felt to me).

"Battle": Yeah, not the best movie and the audience was quiet and exhausted by then. But damn, the blu-ray looks good and they showed the long version. The movie ended just before 3 AM with Eric Greene in the audience going, "Let's hear it for the die hards. Now, sleep like apes!" And that was that.

.html <.html

Nah, Jessica is from San Francisco (which would've been at least 6 hrs ) I'm from San Diego

On Feb 19, 2012 2:16 PM, "Sal & Mick" <smwhitty@... > wrote:

So I assume you went up from San Fran?

There's not many fans left.

If you look at legitimate POTA groups they all swagger around 100.

This is what makes me angry about those who add phantom members to make their POTA groups look like they have 500+ members….it is a lie and it makes people think POTA is still alive when it's just STRUGGLING!

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Barkley
Sent: Monday, 20 February 2012 8:10 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] 10 hours of "Apes"

I tried to stay, but after a long 4 hour (normally 2.5 hours ) drive and 7 hours in the theater, my back was killing me. And I still had the drive home. I had a fun time, though. I was surprised that there weren't more POTAphiles attending. I was also hoping there would've been some kind of display, but oh well.

On Feb 19, 2012 1:54 PM, "Jeff K." < veetus@...> wrote:

Uncut "Battle" and there really wasn't much of a hitch with the new footage, it all looked great. Of course, it's the same blu ray everybody has.

One thing I forgot to mention was the music was really loud, so it accentuated the good, the bad and the ugly. Some of the POTA music can be annoying.

From: Sal & Mick

Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2012 1:42 PM

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] 10 hours of "Apes"

Jeff – what an experience!

Thanks for sharing and being so thorough!

It's interesting they showed the BLOODY version on Conquest.

Was it STANDARD Battle or the uncut?

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Monday, 20 February 2012 7:24 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] 10 hours of "Apes"

The POTA marathon at the famous Egyptian Theater (2/18/12) went on for 10 hours, from 5 PM to 3 AM. Let's see what I can relate from my still foggy brain...

First of all, it definitely wasn't a sell out. It filled the usual 1/3rd capacity, with a mix of die hards and newbies determined to stick it out. So there was still quite a few people left at the end. The highlight of entering the theater was Jeff Barkley dressed as Julius and also someone as an ANSAnaut. Certainly added an event feel to something with such a disappointing turnout.

It started off with screening a print of "Planet". They said it was a new print but I doubt it. I've seen "Planet" in a theater so many times, I enjoyed watching it but the print was nothing special. It was an enthusiastic audience mixed with the usual individuals who maybe enjoy the "camp" appeal of Heston's performance too much.

Q & A

Next was the Q & A with Eric Braeden (Hasslein), Don Murray (Breck), H.M. Wynant (Hoskyns), Austin Stoker (MacDonald # 2) and Lou Wagner (Lucius), pinch hitting for the under the weather Linda Harrison. Obviously the idea was to have someone from each film and technically Lou was in "Beneath". The moderator was Steven Jay Rubin.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0746169/

Lou was asked how he got involved and said he had hazel eyes and the apes needed brown eyes but he was willing to wear contacts or whatever it took and the director liked that.

They were asked to talk about Arthur Jacobs and Don Murray offered he was an old school producer who wasn't cynical. He didn't feel Arthur was portrayed accurately in the Oscar-nominated movie "My Weekend With Marilyn".

Eric Braeden apologized for being a stick in the mud but he has no interest in science-fiction and had no interest in POTA. He was there for a paycheck. He prefers stories with "realism". He admitted sometimes he didn't even know what Hasslein was talking about but he was able to sell the dialogue. And he felt Hasslein had a justified view, though the obvious sympathy was with the apes. He also said he had no interest in Hollywood parties and got involved with "Escape" through one of Jacobs' famous ping pong tournaments. He also mentioned he had worked on Jacobs' ill-fated sci-fi movie "Journey of the Oceanauts" which never got made because Arthur died.

H. M. Wynant said he didn't remember the "Conquest" experience but he remembered the people. He compared J. Lee Thompson to Franklin Schaffner in terms of being "mathematical" as a director (I guess that means being prepared, knowing what he wants, getting the most out of it visually he could). He had known Don Murray long before "Conquest". In fact, he considered Don's father Denny Murray to be one of his mentors. He considers "Conquest" one of his projects that will live forever, even though Hoskyns wasn't one of his biggest roles.

Austin Stoker mentioned during filming of "Battle " the orangutans (led by Paul Williams) breaking into a Supremes song and that was the first time he saw J. Lee laugh on set. He said he was cast in "Battle" because he sounded like the previous MacDonald, Hari Rhodes. In fact he remembered seeing a photo of Rhodes out of the corner of his eye and thinking it was his own mother at first. Both MacDonalds had similar facial features.

Don Murray mentioned learning his Breck lines in German and saying them with that intonation. The different versions of "Conquest" were brought up and Don said from his point of view they had decided to bring him back in "Battle" and that's why he survived. But he had no interest in repeating the role, not because he didn't like it but because he had "done it" and once was enough. Don also said the themes of POTA are eternal and ones we still struggle with and that's why the films will live forever.

Lou Wagner said he studied chimps for his role and when Roddy got around to showing him the chimp walk Roddy had developed, it was the same walk Lou had developed on his own.

Someone asked the difference between making films then and making them now. Braeden said he likes modern films because there's more realism and even TV like Showtime, etc. is more interesting. Don Murray said the advantage of older movies is they didn't use CG for everything and stuff was real. He's not a fan of CG (though somehow no one brought up "Rise of the POTA").

It ended with them being asked about current projects. Lou said he is on "Raising Hope" from time to time. Don mentioned "Breathe", a movie he did with his sons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL8KUk76ryI . Braeden said he's been lucky to have worked on "The Young and the Restless" for 32 years.

They hung around a little bit for photos and autographs and then it was back to the movies, or more specifically, the blu-rays.

"Beneath": looked fine on blu-ray but couldn't compare to the print I saw in 2007. There's something off on the "Beneath" blu ray. But newbies in the audience couldn't believe the ending and were wondering if this was the last movie. Where could they go from here?

"Escape": looked fine. I'd seen the blu ray screened at the Egyptian about a year ago. Good movie.

"Conquest": My favorite movie of the marathon. For starters I'd never seen "Conquest" (or "Battle") in a theater. Plus, in watching all 5 it stands out with the most unique look. It just looked great in a theater. They did the recently found "violent" version and of course it looks even bloodier on a big screen, the bloody bastards. Yeah, I can kind of see now why mothers were dragging their kids out of the theater at the Phoenix test showing. But it would have been interesting if it had been released back then (with a music tweak). Maybe they could've released both versions. The bleak ending is intensified in a theater (at least that's how it felt to me).

"Battle": Yeah, not the best movie and the audience was quiet and exhausted by then. But damn, the blu-ray looks good and they showed the long version. The movie ended just before 3 AM with Eric Greene in the audience going, "Let's hear it for the die hards. Now, sleep like apes!" And that was that.

.html <.html

.html

  The POTA marathon at the famous Egyptian Theater (2/18/12) went on for 10 hours, from 5 PM to 3 AM. Let's see what I can relate from my still foggy brain...

 

  First of all, it definitely wasn't a sell out. It filled the usual 1/3rd capacity, with a mix of die hards and newbies determined to stick it out. So there was still quite a few people left at the end. The highlight of entering the theater was Jeff Barkley dressed as Julius and also someone as an ANSAnaut. Certainly added an event feel to something with such a disappointing turnout.

  It started off with screening a print of "Planet". They said it was a new print but I doubt it. I've seen "Planet" in a theater so many times, I enjoyed watching it but the print was nothing special. It was an enthusiastic audience mixed with the usual individuals who maybe enjoy the "camp" appeal of Heston's performance too much.

 

    Q & A

  Next was the Q & A with Eric Braeden (Hasslein), Don Murray (Breck), H.M. Wynant (Hoskyns), Austin Stoker (MacDonald # 2) and Lou Wagner (Lucius), pinch hitting for the under the weather Linda Harrison. Obviously the idea was to have someone from each film and technically Lou was in "Beneath". The moderator was Steven Jay Rubin.

  http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0746169/

 Lou was asked how he got involved and said he had hazel eyes and the apes needed brown eyes but he was willing to wear contacts or whatever it took and the director liked that.

 They were asked to talk about Arthur Jacobs and Don Murray offered he was an old school producer who wasn't cynical. He didn't feel Arthur was portrayed accurately in the Oscar-nominated movie "My Weekend With Marilyn".

 Eric Braeden apologized for being a stick in the mud but he has no interest in science-fiction and had no interest in POTA. He was there for a paycheck. He prefers stories with "realism". He admitted sometimes he didn't even know what Hasslein was talking about but he was able to sell the dialogue. And he felt Hasslein had a justified view, though the obvious sympathy was with the apes. He also said he had no interest in Hollywood parties and got involved with "Escape" through one of Jacobs' famous ping pong tournaments. He also mentioned he had worked on Jacobs' ill-fated sci-fi movie "Journey of the Oceanauts" which never got made because Arthur died.

  H. M. Wynant said he didn't remember the "Conquest" experience but he remembered the people. He compared J. Lee Thompson to Franklin Schaffner in terms of being "mathematical" as a director (I guess that means being prepared, knowing what he wants, getting the most out of it visually he could). He had known Don Murray long before "Conquest". In fact, he considered Don's father Denny Murray to be one of his mentors. He considers "Conquest" one of his projects that will live forever, even though Hoskyns wasn't one of his biggest roles.

  Austin Stoker mentioned during filming of "Battle" the orangutans (led by Paul Williams) breaking into a Supremes song and that was the first time he saw J. Lee laugh on set. He said he was cast in "Battle" because he sounded like the previous MacDonald, Hari Rhodes. In fact he remembered seeing a photo of Rhodes out of the corner of his eye and thinking it was his own mother at first. Both MacDonalds had similar facial features.

  Don Murray mentioned learning his Breck lines in German and saying them with that intonation. The different versions of "Conquest" were brought up and Don said from his point of view they had decided to bring him back in "Battle" and that's why he survived. But he had no interest in repeating the role, not because he didn't like it but because he had "done it" and once was enough. Don also said the themes of POTA are eternal and ones we still struggle with and that's why the films will live forever.

  Lou Wagner said he studied chimps for his role and when Roddy got around to showing him the chimp walk Roddy had developed, it was the same walk Lou had developed on his own.

  Someone asked the difference between making films then and making them now. Braeden said he likes modern films because there's more realism and even TV like Showtime, etc. is more interesting. Don Murray said the advantage of older movies is they didn't use CG for everything and stuff was real. He's not a fan of CG (though somehow no one brought up "Rise of the POTA").

  It ended with them being asked about current projects. Lou said he is on "Raising Hope" from time to time. Don mentioned "Breathe", a movie he did with his sons:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL8KUk76ryI  . Braeden said he's been lucky to have worked on "The Young and the Restless" for 32 years.

  They hung around a little bit for photos and autographs and then it was back to the movies, or more specifically, the blu-rays.

 

  "Beneath": looked fine on blu-ray but couldn't compare to the print I saw in 2007. There's something off on the "Beneath" blu ray. But newbies in the audience couldn't believe the ending and were wondering if this was the last movie. Where could they go from here?

  "Escape": looked fine. I'd seen the blu ray screened at the Egyptian about a year ago. Good movie.

  "Conquest": My favorite movie of the marathon. For starters I'd never seen "Conquest" (or "Battle") in a theater. Plus, in watching all 5 it stands out with the most unique look. It just looked great in a theater. They did the recently found "violent" version and of course it looks even bloodier on a big screen, the bloody bastards. Yeah, I can kind of see now why mothers were dragging their kids out of the theater at the Phoenix test showing. But it would have been interesting if it had been released back then (with a music tweak). Maybe they could've released both versions. The bleak ending is intensified in a theater (at least that's how it felt to me).

  "Battle": Yeah, not the best movie and the audience was quiet and exhausted by then. But damn, the blu-ray looks good and they showed the long version. The movie ended just before 3 AM with Eric Greene in the audience going, "Let's hear it for the die hards. Now, sleep like apes!" And that was that.

 

<.html

.html   <.html

.html <.html

.html

Reminder from:		PotaDG Yahoo! Group
Title:		Pierre Boulle's Birthday
Date:		Monday February 20, 2012
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Notes:		Happy Birthday Pierre! (Author: La Planète des Singes)
Yahoo! Greetings:		Send a Yahoo! Greeting
Yahoo! Shopping:		Browse Yahoo! Shopping Gift Guide
Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options

Copyright © 2012  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | <.html

.html

 

The POTA marathon at the famous Egyptian Theater (2/18/12) went on for 10 hours, from 5 PM to 3 AM. Let's see what I can relate from my still foggy brain...

First of all, it definitely wasn't a sell out. It filled the usual 1/3rd capacity, with a mix of die hards and newbies determined to stick it out. So there was still quite a few people left at the end. The highlight of entering the theater was Jeff Barkley dressed as Julius and also someone as an ANSAnaut. Certainly added an event feel to something with such a disappointing turnout.
It started off with screening a print of "Planet". They said it was a new print but I doubt it. I've seen "Planet" in a theater so many times, I enjoyed watching it but the print was nothing special. It was an enthusiastic audience mixed with the usual individuals who maybe enjoy the "camp" appeal of Heston's performance too much.

Q & A
Next was the Q & A with Eric Braeden (Hasslein), Don Murray (Breck), H.M. Wynant (Hoskyns), Austin Stoker (MacDonald # 2) and Lou Wagner (Lucius), pinch hitting for the under the weather Linda Harrison. Obviously the idea was to have someone from each film and technically Lou was in "Beneath". The moderator was Steven Jay Rubin.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0746169/
Lou was asked how he got involved and said he had hazel eyes and the apes needed brown eyes but he was willing to wear contacts or whatever it took and the director liked that.
They were asked to talk about Arthur Jacobs and Don Murray offered he was an old school producer who wasn't cynical. He didn't feel Arthur was portrayed accurately in the Oscar-nominated movie "My Weekend With Marilyn".
Eric Braeden apologized for being a stick in the mud but he has no interest in science-fiction and had no interest in POTA. He was there for a paycheck. He prefers stories with "realism". He admitted sometimes he didn't even know what Hasslein was talking about but he was able to sell the dialogue. And he felt Hasslein had a justified view, though the obvious sympathy was with the apes. He also said he had no interest in Hollywood parties and got involved with "Escape" through one of Jacobs' famous ping pong tournaments. He also mentioned he had worked on Jacobs' ill-fated sci-fi movie "Journey of the Oceanauts" which never got made because Arthur died.
H. M. Wynant said he didn't remember the "Conquest" experience but he remembered the people. He compared J. Lee Thompson to Franklin Schaffner in terms of being "mathematical" as a director (I guess that means being prepared, knowing what he wants, getting the most out of it visually he could). He had known Don Murray long before "Conquest". In fact, he considered Don's father Denny Murray to be one of his mentors. He considers "Conquest" one of his projects that will live forever, even though Hoskyns wasn't one of his biggest roles.
Austin Stoker mentioned during filming of "Battle" the orangutans (led by Paul Williams) breaking into a Supremes song and that was the first time he saw J. Lee laugh on set. He said he was cast in "Battle" because he sounded like the previous MacDonald, Hari Rhodes. In fact he remembered seeing a photo of Rhodes out of the corner of his eye and thinking it was his own mother at first. Both MacDonalds had similar facial features.
Don Murray mentioned learning his Breck lines in German and saying them with that intonation. The different versions of "Conquest" were brought up and Don said from his point of view they had decided to bring him back in "Battle" and that's why he survived. But he had no interest in repeating the role, not because he didn't like it but because he had "done it" and once was enough. Don also said the themes of POTA are eternal and ones we still struggle with and that's why the films will live forever.
Lou Wagner said he studied chimps for his role and when Roddy got around to showing him the chimp walk Roddy had developed, it was the same walk Lou had developed on his own.
Someone asked the difference between making films then and making them now. Braeden said he likes modern films because there's more realism and even TV like Showtime, etc. is more interesting. Don Murray said the advantage of older movies is they didn't use CG for everything and stuff was real. He's not a fan of CG (though somehow no one brought up "Rise of the POTA").
It ended with them being asked about current projects. Lou said he is on "Raising Hope" from time to time. Don mentioned "Breathe", a movie he did with his sons: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zL8KUk76ryI . Braeden said he's been lucky to have worked on "The Young and the Restless" for 32 years.
They hung around a little bit for photos and autographs and then it was back to the movies, or more specifically, the blu-rays.

"Beneath": looked fine on blu-ray but couldn't compare to the print I saw in 2007. There's something off on the "Beneath" blu ray. But newbies in the audience couldn't believe the ending and were wondering if this was the last movie. Where could they go from here?
"Escape": looked fine. I'd seen the blu ray screened at the Egyptian about a year ago. Good movie.
"Conquest": My favorite movie of the marathon. For starters I'd never seen "Conquest" (or "Battle") in a theater. Plus, in watching all 5 it stands out with the most unique look. It just looked great in a theater. They did the recently found "violent" version and of course it looks even bloodier on a big screen, the bloody bastards. Yeah, I can kind of see now why mothers were dragging their kids out of the theater at the Phoenix test showing. But it would have been interesting if it had been released back then (with a music tweak). Maybe they could've released both versions. The bleak ending is intensified in a theater (at least that's how it felt to me).
"Battle": Yeah, not the best movie and the audience was quiet and exhausted by then. But damn, the blu-ray looks good and they showed the long version. The movie ended just before 3 AM with Eric Greene in the audience going, "Let's hear it for the die hards. Now, sleep like apes!" And that was that.

<.html =

.html <.html

wow that is really cool! Treasure that book!!

On Mon, Feb 20, 2012 at 9:06 AM, Jeff K. <veetus@...> wrote:

Due to popular request (well, Tim), here's who signed my book. I'm not a big autograph hound (I'm kinda self-conscious asking for them) but I started this during Eric Greene's book signings and it just grew as I went to various events the last 15 years (yes, this is the 15th anniversary year of Eric's book).

Planet: Charlton Heston, Roddy McDowall, Kim Hunter, Linda Harrison, Lou Wagner, Buck Kartalian, Jerry Goldsmith, William Creber, Mort Abrahams; makeup: John Chambers, Josephine Turner, Maurice Stein, Howard J. Smit

Beneath: Don Pedro Colley, Jeff Corey (mutants)

Escape: Natalie Trundy, Eric Braeden, Eric Braeden, William Windom

Conquest: Don Murray, H.M. Wynant

Battle: Austin Stoker, Bobby Porter, Noah Keene

TV: Ron Harper, Booth Colman, Beverly Garland, Eileen Dietz (sister ape, "Good Seeds"), William Smith (Tolar), David Naughton (cameo), Lee Delano (stuntman), Arnold Laven (director), Dan Streipeke (makeup), Stan Winston (makeup), Marvin Page (casting)

POTA2001: Cary Tagowa (Krull), Rick Baker (makeup)

Rise: Rupert Wyatt (director), Joe Letteri (FX), Rick Jaffa & Amanda Silver (writer/producers)

ape kids: Felix Silla, Jerry Marin

authors: Eric Greene, Joe Russo, Luiz Saulo Adami, Jerry Pournelle, David Gerrold

comics: Corinna Bechko & Gabrielle Hardman, Barbara Kaalberg, George Tuska, Dave Dorman, Marv Wolfman, Chris Claremont (wrote for the mag)

various: James Cameron (POTA wannabe), Terry Hoknes, Bill Blake (stage Cornelius), Matt Stein ("Ape Has Killed Ape" band), Harrison Zanuck, "Mitch" (introduced me to POTA), 8 members of Apemania promoting the POTA video game, Gloria Greene

primatologists: Jane Goodall, Roger Fouts

OK, so let's hear the autograph stories. Any body parts?

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Wow. That's one helluva book you have there Jeff! A treasure given the
many who have now sadly passed away. Take good care of it.

Dario

On Mon, 20 Feb 2012 09:06:03 -0800, Jeff K. wrote:
> Due to popular request (well, Tim), here's who signed my book. I'm
> not a big autograph hound (I'm kinda self-conscious asking for them)
> but I started this during Eric Greene's book signings and it just
> grew
> as I went to various events the last 15 years (yes, this is the 15th
> anniversary year of Eric's book).
>
> Planet: Charlton Heston, Roddy McDowall, Kim Hunter, Linda Harrison,
> Lou Wagner, Buck Kartalian, Jerry Goldsmith, William Creber, Mort
> Abrahams; makeup: John Chambers, Josephine Turner, Maurice Stein,
> Howard J. Smit
>
> Beneath: Don Pedro Colley, Jeff Corey (mutants)
>
> Escape: Natalie Trundy, Eric Braeden, Eric Braeden, William Windom
>
> Conquest: Don Murray, H.M. Wynant
>
> Battle: Austin Stoker, Bobby Porter, Noah Keene
>
> TV: Ron Harper, Booth Colman, Beverly Garland, Eileen Dietz (sister
> ape, "Good Seeds"), William Smith (Tolar), David Naughton (cameo),
> Lee
> Delano (stuntman), Arnold Laven (director), Dan Streipeke (makeup),
> Stan Winston (makeup), Marvin Page (casting)
>
> POTA2001: Cary Tagowa (Krull), Rick Baker (makeup)
>
> Rise: Rupert Wyatt (director), Joe Letteri (FX), Rick Jaffa & Amanda
> Silver (writer/producers)
>
> ape kids: Felix Silla, Jerry Marin
>
> authors: Eric Greene, Joe Russo, Luiz Saulo Adami, Jerry Pournelle,
> David Gerrold
>
> comics: Corinna Bechko & Gabrielle Hardman,
>
> various: James Cameron (POTA wannabe), Terry Hoknes, Bill Blake
> (stage Cornelius), Matt Stein ("Ape Has Killed Ape" band), Harrison
> Zanuck, "Mitch" (introduced me to POTA), 8 members of Apemania
> promoting the POTA video game, Gloria Greene
>
> primatologists: Jane Goodall, Roger Fouts
>
> OK, so let's hear the autograph stories. Any body parts?
>
>
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1]
> mailto:veetus@...?subject=Re%3A%20Book%20%27Em%2C%20Urko%21
> [2]
> mailto:pota@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20Book%20%27Em%2C%20Urko%21
> [3]
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxcGU5NmgzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjY4NDgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIxNDM3BG1zZ0lkAzY4NDE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc2MTIwOA--?act=reply&messageNum=68418
> [4]
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlN3UyczdwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjY4NDgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIxNDM3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc2MTIwOA--
> [5]
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/message/68418;_ylc=X3oDMTM2ZWdtajFuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjY4NDgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIxNDM3BG1zZ0lkAzY4NDE4BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc2MTIwOAR0cGNJZAM2ODQxOA--
> [6]
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmamU4c292BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjY4NDgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIxNDM3BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEzMjk3NjEyMDg-?o=6
> [7]
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmNmExaWRwBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjY4NDgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIxNDM3BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEzMjk3NjEyMDg-
> [8]
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJnaDBzNWkyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjY4NDgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIxNDM3BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZmaWxlcwRzdGltZQMxMzI5NzYxMjA4
> [9]
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota;_ylc=X3oDMTJlcWxwNmlpBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzEyMjY4NDgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIxNDM3BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTMyOTc2MTIwOA--
> [10]
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMG9obmU0BF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEyMjY4NDgEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDIxNDM3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMzI5NzYxMjA4
> [11] mailto:pota-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change Delivery
> Format: Traditional
> [12] mailto:pota-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email Delivery:
> Digest
> [13] mailto:pota-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe
> [14]

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Pretty good stuff, this!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVzOcuyN0JA&feature=share

 

 

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