|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62541 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Rise of the Dawn |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62542 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62543 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: possible spoilers: "Battle" refs in "Dawn" |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62544 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62545 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62546 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62547 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Making of the NECA figures |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62548 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62549 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: The spirit of $73 million |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62550 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62551 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62552 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62553 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62554 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62555 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62556 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62557 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62558 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62559 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62560 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62561 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62562 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62563 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62564 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62565 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62566 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62567 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Article on other 70s Sci-Fi films that should follow Apes lead... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62568 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62569 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62570 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Here's what other fan-boys are saying... (Includes spoilers) |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62571 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62572 |
From: Dario Sciola |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: My Review of PotA: Firestorm |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62573 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: My Review of PotA: Firestorm |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62574 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on new TV show |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62575 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on new TV show |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62576 |
From: Tim |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: More press for my collection! |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62577 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: More press for my collection! |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62578 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62579 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Go Ape! podcast |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62580 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62581 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: My Review of PotA: Firestorm |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62582 |
From: Dario Sciola |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: My Review of PotA: Firestorm |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62583 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: My Review of PotA: Firestorm |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62584 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Opening final: $72.6 million |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62585 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Nice article on the CGI in "Dawn" (Some spoilers) |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62586 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Opening final: $72.6 million |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62587 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Revised Apes logo for board? |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62588 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Dawn Concept Art |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62589 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Revised Apes logo for board? |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62590 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Matt Reeves talks about future Apes films and their trajectory... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62591 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Bravo to Matt Reeves! |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62592 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Bravo to Matt Reeves! |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62593 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: An article on my collection! |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62594 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: possible spoilers: "Battle" refs in "Dawn" |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62595 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62596 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Blu-ray: "Dawn" extended cut |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62597 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: TV Series on the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62598 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Rise of the Dawn |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62599 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62600 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62601 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Opening final: $72.6 million |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62602 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Opening final: $72.6 million |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62603 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62604 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62605 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Blu-ray: "Dawn" extended cut |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62606 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62607 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62608 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62609 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Opening final: $72.6 million |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62610 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62611 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on new TV show |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62612 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: More press for my collection! |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62613 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62614 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62615 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62616 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Opening final: $72.6 million |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62617 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Blu-ray: "Dawn" extended cut |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62618 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62619 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62620 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Bravo to Matt Reeves! |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62621 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62622 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: More press for my collection! |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62623 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62624 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62625 |
From: Neil Moxham |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62626 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: That disappearing battleship |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62627 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62628 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: They sank Dawn's battleship |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62629 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: They sank Dawn's battleship |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62630 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Dawn soundtrack |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62631 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Dawn soundtrack |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62632 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: MORE detail on what the original ending was... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62633 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Monkees watching Monkess (and so... it begins) |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62634 |
From: Neil Moxham |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62635 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62636 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Nice article on Apes comics - including new DAWN tie-in |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62637 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Original DAWN ending |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62638 |
From: Neil Moxham |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Dawn soundtrack |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62639 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Dawn soundtrack |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62640 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Dawn soundtrack |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62541 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Rise of the Dawn |
.html
.html
After seeing "Dawn" again, I watched some of
"Rise" and it almost hurt my eyes, the apes in "Dawn" are so good. In the old
days the apes got worse from film to film. Now they get
better. <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62542 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
.html
Fox predicted Dawn's box office would be on par
with "Rise" ($50 millions; maybe they were being humble); best estimates were
that it would be on par with "World War Z" ($60 millions). As I write this,
estimates are in the $70 millions. Groovy, but still $20 million below the big
boys. It personally makes me sick that "Transformers" will probably be the
biggest hit of the summer. No, don't stop me! I have to say this
(>CENSORED<, he goes on and on about how "the Transformers
mentality" is ruining the movies, blah, blah, blah). I mean, don't you
agree?
Anyway, "Dawn" is doing better than the "experts"
predicted. Really, I thought it would do better. People really liked "Rise" and
I thought those catching up with it on home video would come out in force. But,
you know, (>CENSORED<, he goes on and on about how some people have a
block when it comes to POTA; they can buy mutants who can change the weather but
they find POTA silly, blah, blah, blah). Where was I? Oh yeah, "Dawn" is doing
better than expected but not as good as it should. So there.
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62543 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: possible spoilers: "Battle" refs in "Dawn" |
.html.html .html
I agree: Those "nods" to the originals were mainly just irritating...
In a message dated 7/12/2014 8:31:10 PM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
I actually appreciated the fact that, unlike RotPOTA, the writers didn't feel the need to sprinkle the
dialogue with nudging allusions to the previous films.
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62544 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html.html .html
As far as you thinking it would do better: You're right there... By that I mean you've been championing this film for a long time... Maybe they should have listened
to you and went with your desired July 4th opening... Would have it had even better numbers had it opened a week sooner, who knows but from what you've been telling us, it's doing decent box office which is
good... I still haven't seen the DAWN film, I might just wait until it's out on DVD like I did with RISE...
BTW: You stated DAWN is doing better than what the "experts" were predicting... What kind of numbers were they throwing around?
In a message dated 7/13/2014 3:28:45 AM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
Anyway, "Dawn" is doing better than the "experts" predicted. Really, I thought it would
do better.
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62545 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html.html .html
Never mind this question: I reread your post and seen what you said Fox's people thought it would do...
In a message dated 7/13/2014 4:21:06 AM Central Daylight Time, MLCCOUGAR@... writes:
BTW: You stated DAWN is doing better than what the "experts" were predicting... What kind of
numbers were they throwing around?
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62546 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
.html.html .html
Yes, an updated TV series would be welcome by me as well... I do think the original TV series gets unfairly knocked by a lot of people though: I like it a lt myself... You
mentioned larger story arcs as a good idea for a potential new series, in a way I agree with you, but at he same time I like it better when an weekly TV episode has a "conclusion"... I don't mind if they
reference things from past episodes, but I myself just don't care for having to "commit" to a series... I don't like the idea of being lost if you miss an episode or two... I know it's easier to be
able to catch up on shows these days, but I still like the idea of each episode having an "ending", maybe it's just me?
As far as RETURN, for an animated series, I think it had a fairly decent story arc, much more than any other animated series I can think of... I just wish it had been renewed for a second season (even if just a few
episodes like so many "second seasons" of animated shows were) so there would have been a conclusion to its story...
In a message dated 7/12/2014 11:59:19 PM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
On a side note, I've always thought that it would be a good idea to re-visit POTA on the TV screen; the
previous two series (live action and animated) both lacked in storylines - these days you could make a much darker, more visceral series that could incorporate larger story arcs and more world-building, and be a way to
keep the Apes franchise in the public eye. But that's just me dreaming away...
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62547 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Making of the NECA figures |
.html.html .html
The thing I found interesting is that he seemed to be hinting that NECA is going to be doing APES figures in the same style as the Mego figures... I hope they go thru with
that plan, it'd be cool if they made figures Mego never made (Taylor, Nova, Lucius, more Gorillas, Brent, etc...) And if they make Mego style figures, I hope they're Mego style in that I want them to have
removable outfits, not molded on clothing...
In a message dated 7/12/2014 9:07:19 AM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
Here's a brief interview with the sculptor of the upcoming "Classic Apes" figures from NECA:
http://13thdimension.com/exclusive-making-of-necas-classic-apes-figures/?utm_campaign=13dimrandyint&utm_source=necafbgplus&utm_medium=social
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62548 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
.html
Waiting for DVD? Either you're part of the
solution or you're part of the problem, Cougar. >: (
The experts predicted $60 - 65
million.
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2014 2:21 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "Dawn" box office looking up
As far as you thinking it would do better: You're right
there... By that I mean you've been championing this film for a long time...
Maybe they should have listened to you and went with your desired July 4th
opening... Would have it had even better numbers had it opened a week sooner,
who knows but from what you've been telling us, it's doing decent box office
which is good... I still haven't seen the DAWN film, I might just wait until
it's out on DVD like I did with RISE...
BTW: You stated DAWN is doing
better than what the "experts" were predicting... What kind of numbers were they
throwing around?
In a message dated 7/13/2014 3:28:45 AM Central
Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
Anyway, "Dawn" is doing better than the "experts" predicted.
Really, I thought it would do better.
<.html
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62549 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: The spirit of $73 million |
.html
.html
They're estimating $73 million as Dawn's opening
weekend domestically. More or less since, well, Sunday hasn't actually happened
yet. Usually they overestimate so that will probably go down a smidge. Though it
would be cool if it went up to $76 million, since the 76 gas station plays a
role in the story. Early reports said the budget was around $120 million but now
it's $170 million. >Whew!< >Whew!< I'm sweating. Let me wipe my
brow.
International is negligible since it's hardly
opened anywhere (Bulgaria? Slovenia?).
Here's the sched:
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62550 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
I think the reason that Apes isn't doing 100M business on its opening weekend, is that it simply doesn't command the large, YOUNG fan bases that other franchises have - but
very few franchises can really do that. Yes, there's the AWFUL Transformers, but even that is losing its box office luster, with the latest installment definitely showing signs of viewer fatigue. And
Sony's Spider-Man, although still doing multi-million-dollar business around the world, is also slipping - with the latest movie down from all previous ones. This is a bad summer for the movie biz.
That said, I also think that the latest installments, despite their brilliant quality, shoot themselves in the foot a bit by placing the action in the (near) future. I remember being reluctant to see Rise of
the Planet of the Apes first because of Tim Burton's monstrosity (which had left a bad taste), and secondly, because it seemed there would be little or no "science fiction" element - it was taking place in
(for all intents and purposes) the here and now, so there would be no "ape city" no "wastelands" no mutants, no spaceships - which is part of the Apes allure - especially if you're aiming at a
young demographic.
I haven't seen any data yet on what age/gender are going to see DotPOTA, but I would be curious to see how its skewing. |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62551 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
Well, if the 73M holds, that's all for the good - it means that word of mouth helped propel some extra business its way, and means that continuing word of mouth push may keep it on the
charts longer. Domestic totals are good, but also we need to remember that these days, it's really the international B.O. that makes or breaks a movie's total profit margin. I was shocked - SHOCKED
to read that Pacific Rim is now getting a sequel! But it owes it all to good international B.O.
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62552 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
.html
This is good on who went (older white
guys):
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2014 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "Dawn" box office looking up
I think the reason that Apes isn't doing 100M business on its opening
weekend, is that it simply doesn't command the large, YOUNG fan bases that other
franchises have - but very few franchises can really do that. Yes, there's
the AWFUL Transformers, but even that is losing its box office luster, with the
latest installment definitely showing signs of viewer fatigue. And Sony's
Spider-Man, although still doing multi-million-dollar business around the world,
is also slipping - with the latest movie down from all previous ones. This
is a bad summer for the movie biz.
That said, I also think that the latest installments, despite their
brilliant quality, shoot themselves in the foot a bit by placing the action in
the (near) future. I remember being reluctant to see Rise of the Planet of
the Apes first because of Tim Burton's monstrosity (which had left a bad taste),
and secondly, because it seemed there would be little or no "science fiction"
element - it was taking place in (for all intents and purposes) the here and
now, so there would be no "ape city" no "wastelands" no mutants, no spaceships -
which is part of the Apes allure - especially if you're aiming at a young
demographic.
I haven't seen any data yet on what age/gender are going to see DotPOTA,
but I would be curious to see how its skewing.
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62553 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
.html
I agree that series that are only about long story arcs are problematic - but you can easily do both - have stand alone stories each week, but also include a long-term goal or mystery that
is gradually being worked towards.
My only problem with the original TV series was its formulaic writing - same basic plot week after week - same villain, same heroes, different village. Sort of what I call "The Battlestar Galactica
Problem" - here you have this whole new universe to explore, but you always end up with Adama and Baltar bickering with each other.
In my ideal series, you've had a core group of heroes made up of a mix of humans/apes trying to discover the real genesis of the ape society, with the astronauts slowly discovering that they're still on
Earth, and then trying to reach Cape Kennedy in order to see if they can salvage a spacecraft, with clues and dangers unfolding each week as to what might have happened as they travel from place to place, so the story
actually grows and has a feeling of progression.
It would be cool for them to stumble upon Apes performing brutal surgery on humans, cannibalistic remnants of humanity warring with each other, strange, mutated creatures, and burned out cities, all the while
bolstered by comedic and sympathetic interplay between the heroes about civilized behavior. |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62554 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: The various humans found in POTA series... |
.html
I tried looking to see if this thread had ever been discussed here, and didn't see it, so I'm going to bring it up.
It's a question involving the different kinds of humans as presented in the POTA series over the years.
-
In 1968's POTA, the only native humans are mute, no reason is given for this - they're brutal, bestial, a true reversal of modern humanity, and, according to
the Apes, they're the ONLY kind of humans left.
- In Beneath
, we meet the mutants - they can speak, but are primarily telepathic. Mute humanity is only represented by Nova.
- In
Escape and Conquest, we're shown normal humans
- In
Battle, we meet a different group of mutants, scarred and xenophobic, but otherwise normal.
-
In the 1974 TV series, humans seem completely normal, just stuck in sort of medieval farming communities.
-
In 2001's POTA, the humans seem normal, and can talk, but are hunted and oppressed by the Apes.
I've always felt that the most successful appearance of the humans was in the first POTA; it created a true dichotomy between the barely civilized Apes, and the bestial remnants of humanity. It also created
an intriguing mystery - Zira stated there is no physiological reason for the Human lack of speech, so what caused it? As far as I know (and I'm not a rabid collector, so maybe this has been addressed
somewhere) this has never been explained.
In fact, it seems that every other Apes movie has simply ignored the presence of mutes in the first movie, and never addressed it again. Am I wrong? Has this been explained somewhere? |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62555 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
"The film played 47% Caucasian, 23% African-American, 16% Hispanic, and 14% Asian. It played 58% male and 45%
over-25 years old. The franchise remains a popular way for audiences to spend two hours thinking about how horrible humanity is."
Yeah, great article - thanks for posting! But you see the problem - for movies to break into the magic 100M
weekend mark, you HAVE to get the young people in the seats, or even better, get whole families in together, a'la E.T. - The Extra-Terrestrial (which is never going to happen with a PG-13 movie)
So what could the NEXT movie do to get more young teenagers in?
<.html
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62556 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
.html
I can't imagine teenagers not loving "Dawn" (if
they ever see it). It's got great action, teen characters, great FX, a
"Hunger Games" vibe. I really thought "Dawn" was going to go through the roof
and I'm scratching my head now. People really want more "Transformers"? (though
I can see why kids like it)
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2014 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "Dawn" box office looking up
"The
film played 47% Caucasian, 23% African-American, 16% Hispanic, and 14% Asian. It
played 58% male and 45% over-25 years old. The franchise remains a popular
way for audiences to spend two hours thinking about how horrible humanity
is."
Yeah,
great article - thanks for posting! But you see the problem - for movies
to break into the magic 100M weekend mark, you HAVE to get the young people in
the seats, or even better, get whole families in together, a'la E.T. - The
Extra-Terrestrial (which is never going to happen with a PG-13
movie)
So
what could the NEXT movie do to get more young teenagers in?
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62557 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
Yeah, but for all it's action and post-apocalyptic eye-candy, there's not much for the average teenager - it's much more intelligent than "Hunger Games" (which, when
boiled down, is basically an anarchic "bucking the system" trope), and as far as characters go, the only teenager in "Dawn" is a mopey kid who hardly radiates 'sex appeal'. (Where's
Linda Harrison in a leather bikini when you need her?)
The Apes films have always been a little more serious and adult than most escapist fare (especially the first four films) - that's sort of their legacy; and when they attempted to dumb-down or tame the series
for mass consumption (with "Battle" and the two TV series) it lost a lot of its edge.
I'd hate to see the movies get "dumbed down" in an effort to try and attract more teenagers - I'd rather the marketing team at FOX get a little smarter about how they market the films - keep making
them the quality they are, but more aggressively target teen audiences.
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62558 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
.html
I think the problem is "monster" movies. They
only do so-so ("Godzilla", "Pacific Rim", "World War Z"). Kind of like horror
movies, a limited audience. Maybe people see "Apes" as monster movies. Though
"Godzilla" had one of the best openings of the year ($93 million) but people
didn't like it.
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2014 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "Dawn" box office looking up
Yeah, but for all it's action and post-apocalyptic eye-candy, there's not
much for the average teenager - it's much more intelligent than "Hunger Games"
(which, when boiled down, is basically an anarchic "bucking the system" trope),
and as far as characters go, the only teenager in "Dawn" is a mopey kid who
hardly radiates 'sex appeal'. (Where's Linda Harrison in a leather bikini
when you need her?)
The Apes films have always been a little more serious and adult than most
escapist fare (especially the first four films) - that's sort of their legacy;
and when they attempted to dumb-down or tame the series for mass consumption
(with "Battle" and the two TV series) it lost a lot of its edge.
I'd hate to see the movies get "dumbed down" in an effort to try and
attract more teenagers - I'd rather the marketing team at FOX get a little
smarter about how they market the films - keep making them the quality they are,
but more aggressively target teen audiences.
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62559 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.htmlJeff, you keep referencing World War Z
as if it was a failure, but according to IMDB, it grossed over 202M in the U.S. alone, which is fantastic! Pacific Rim
did much worse, but still broke 100M (101M and is getting a sequel), and Godzilla is currently at 197M (U.S.).
We keep carping over how
Dawn
is pulling lower than the opening numbers of other films, but it's a solid hit, doing better than projections, and a sequel (barring some crazy Hollywood shenanigans) is all but assured. More Apes on the way!
Woo-hoo!
Here's hoping that things get truly *crazy* in the next film...
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62560 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
.html
"World War Z" was a middling success ($540
million worldwide). They don't seem to be in a big hurry to do a sequel. "Apes"
needs to do better than that.
Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2014 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "Dawn" box office looking up
Jeff, you keep referencing World War
Z as if it was a failure, but according to IMDB, it grossed over 202M in
the U.S. alone, which is fantastic! Pacific Rim did much worse, but still broke
100M (101M and is getting a sequel), and Godzilla is currently at 197M (U.S.).
We keep carping over how Dawn is
pulling lower than the opening numbers of other films, but it's a solid hit,
doing better than projections, and a sequel (barring some crazy Hollywood
shenanigans) is all but assured. More Apes on the way! Woo-hoo!
Here's hoping that things get truly *crazy* in the next film...
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62561 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/13/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
Well, I guess my idea of "middling" and Hollywood's is pretty different if 540M is considered a "meh." !
I know that it's all some complicated formula of cost/promotion vs. expectations - but considering that Apes has exceeded expectations in its opening weekend, and the fantastic reviews its getting, we can
breathe a sigh of relief with regards to the saga continuing.
Let's wait until the week and see what the actual final number is, and then we can really dig into what it all means.
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62562 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html.html .html
Point taken... Maybe I'll compromise and wait until it's at the budget cinema ;)
In a message dated 7/13/2014 8:47:52 AM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
Waiting for DVD? Either you're part of the solution or you're part of the problem, Cougar.
>: (
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62563 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
.html.html .html
I like your idea(s) for a "new series"... You make sense in that it could have ending episodes each week with some continuity: Now to get the powers that be to
green-light another APES series... But my guess would be that with new movies still coming out and being developed, they'd probably wait until the box office run is at an end which could be a problem, you have to
strike while the iron is hot... With our luck, they'll announce a new APES TV series and it will forever be in limbo like the much talked about (potential) STAR WARS television series...
As far as the original TV series: I wonder if it would have faired better if it had been done when they were originally thinking about doing one (if I remember correctly, the BEHIND doc said 1973?)
In a message dated 7/13/2014 2:02:28 PM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
I agree that series that are only about long story arcs are problematic - but you can easily do both - have
stand alone stories each week, but also include a long-term goal or mystery that is gradually being worked towards.
My only problem with the original TV series was its formulaic writing - same basic plot week after week - same villain, same heroes, different village. Sort of what I call "The Battlestar Galactica
Problem" - here you have this whole new universe to explore, but you always end up with Adama and Baltar bickering with each other.
In my ideal series, you've had a core group of heroes made up of a mix of humans/apes trying to discover the real genesis of the ape society, with the astronauts slowly discovering that they're still on Earth,
and then trying to reach Cape Kennedy in order to see if they can salvage a spacecraft, with clues and dangers unfolding each week as to what might have happe ned as they travel from place to place, so the story
actually grows and has a feeling of progression.
It would be cool for them to stumble upon Apes performing brutal surgery on humans, cannibalistic remnants of humanity warring with each other, strange, mutated creatures, and burned out cities, all the while bolstered
by comedic and sympathetic interplay between the heroes about civilized behavior.
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62564 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
.html.html .html
You bring up interesting points... I don't remember this topic ever being brought up on here before... As far as I know, it's never been explained anywhere either
except the TV series humans... In one of the old MARVEL mags, somebody who was associated with the series said that they went with talking humans to allow for more storylines and to allow for guest stars... While I do
prefer the setting of PLANET/BENEATH, as far as the TV series goes, I can totally see why they went with the enslaved remnants of humanity for the reasons just mentioned... I mean the cornfield roundup in PLANET is
great, but I don't think a series could have gone on week to week like that...
In a message dated 7/13/2014 2:18:13 PM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
I tried looking to see if this thread had ever been discussed here, and didn't see it, so I'm going
to bring it up.
It's a question involving the different kinds of humans as presented in the POTA series over the years.
In 1968's POTA, the only native humans are mute, no reason is given for this - they're brutal, bestial, a true reversal of modern humanity, and, according to the Apes, they're the ONLY kind of humans left.
In Beneath, we meet the mutants - they can speak, but are primarily telepathic. Mute humanity is only represented by Nova.
In Escape and Conquest, we're shown normal humans
In Battle, we meet a different group of mutants, scarred and xenophobic, but otherwise normal.
In the 1974 TV series, humans seem completely normal, just stuck in sort of medieval farming communities.
In 2001's POTA, the humans seem normal, and can talk, but are hunted and oppressed by the Apes.
I've always felt that the most successful appearance of the humans was in the first POTA; it created a true dichotomy between the barely civilized Apes, and the bestial remnants of humanity. It also created an
intriguing mystery - Zira stated there is no physiological reason for the Human lack of speech, so what caused it? As far as I know (and I'm not a rabid collector, so maybe this has been addressed somewhere)
this has never been explained.
In fact, it seems that every other Apes movie has simply ignored the presence of mutes in the first movie, and never addressed it again. Am I wrong? Has this been explained somewhere?
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62565 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html.html .html
Fair question... I just hope they never deliberately try to market it to the "MTV crowd" like they did with the Burton film... I'd rather have it be a slightly
lesser money-maker than sell itself out to try to draw in the teeny-boppers... I think the biggest thing with APES is its "cult status"... It has its fans and will continue to attract new viewers, but it will
never have the "flash" of let's say STAR WARS, or to put it in even more modern terms IRON MAN, etc...
In a message dated 7/13/2014 2:23:14 PM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
So what could the NEXT movie do to get more young teenagers in?
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62566 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
.html
Yeah, Apes definitely does better when left out of the hands of "the suits" in Hollywood - in his recent interviews, Matt Reeves seemed really surprised at how much freedom he was
given to pursue his vision - and I was surprised at how much money was leveraged for the production (currently being reported at 170M!) - which shows at least that there are still people in 20th Century Fox who believe
in the viability of the Apes franchise. <.html
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62567 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Article on other 70s Sci-Fi films that should follow Apes lead... |
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62568 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
.html
Thanks, mlccougar for the heads up about the article - makes sense that it would be a production choice rather than an effort to do a linear story-line continuation of the subject. So
much of Apes cinema as we know it has been driven by base-line economic causes, that I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this one was too. It's just that I like mysteries in films, and this is one that
has never been (officially) solved.
So I guess from a timeline standpoint, the mutes in the first movie were just a small clan, rather than representative of the whole remnant of humanity, given the range of peoples we meet in the various films/TV
series. |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62569 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
.html
I don't know if there would have been a better time than what it was - certainly Apes interest had been declining by the time the series finally aired, and with little to no technical
advances in how the apes or their world was portrayed, story and character development had to be paramount, and the series delivered these only sporadically. A bolder approach might have saved the series, but by
the time it aired, the anarchic attitude of the early films had been left behind. <.html
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62570 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Here's what other fan-boys are saying... (Includes spoilers) |
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62571 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
.html.html .html
In a message dated 7/14/2014 7:10:34 AM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
Thanks, mlccougar for the heads up about the article - makes sense that it would be a production choice
rather than an effort to do a linear story-line continuation of the subject. So much of Apes cinema as we know it has been driven by base-line economic causes, that I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this
one was too. It's just that I like mysteries in films, and this is one that has never been (officially) solved.
My guess is that in addition to having speaking/enslaved humans in the TV series for the reasons of more storylines and being able to have guest stars, it may have indeed been a reason of economics as well... As with
ESCAPE and BATTLE, having more humans might have been a cost savings measure as well.. No one associated with the show had ever said that (that I'm aware of), but I could see that having been another reason for
talking humans in the show... More humans=Less costs associated with ape prosthetics...
So I guess from a timeline standpoint, the mutes in the first movie were just a small clan, rather than representative of the whole remnant of humanity, given the range of peoples we meet in the various films/TV series.
My guess is that in the original PLANET, those humans were indeed supposed to represent the remains of humanity... Had PLANET been a stand alone film, with no sequels/off-shoots, they would have been the only
representation of humanity we would have been left with, so as viewers we would have had to suppose they were all that was left...
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62572 |
From: Dario Sciola |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: My Review of PotA: Firestorm |
.html
Hard to give it movie like rating. And how much of an Apes fan are you would factor in how much you enjoy this. But If I had to, I'd give it a 3.5 or 4 out of five.
>> Dawn Spoilers
>> Dawn Spoilers
Now that I've seen Dawn, I must say this though. It looks like the author had little insight into where the movie eventually took us.
Drefuss was characterized as rather a rather intelligent, noble, and honorable man. I was sure that he would used as the personification of the 'good' humans in the movie and the one that would bridge
Ape-Human relations. I was almost shocked to see that he turned out to be a blind sighted war monger leader instead. He is quite different that what I was led to expect. I was also surprised to see that he ended up
being a relatively minor character (the talent's of Gary Oldman being wated really, but that's another story).
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62573 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: My Review of PotA: Firestorm |
.html
Hey Dario - I'm not sure what you mean by the author having little insight into where the movie eventually took us -
"Dawn" has to be viewed as quite a "little" story in the entirety of the Apes timeline. The whole film takes place over the space of three to four days, and isn't really concerned with
portraying sweeping changes which would bring the Apes world into full realization - it's a very intimate tale, and I don't think it was the writers intention to ever tell a sweeping arc.
And the character of Dreyfuss I thought was more sympathetic than you viewed him. His entire persona was shaped by loss - and his response to the Apes was cored in fear and desperate circumstances, rather than
the simple-minded "evil" villain Hollywood usually gives us. Despite his limited screen time, I thought Gary Oldman came through in spades. |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62574 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on new TV show |
.html
.html
Arthur Jacobs was going to do a TV show as early
as 1972 but decided to wait until the movies were done (then he
died).
The CG would definitely be too expensive for TV.
I don't think they would go back to makeup now. They could maybe do an animated
series like they're doing with "Star Wars" (the "Clone Wars" series was highly
praised and won an Emmy).
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the
Apes
I like your idea(s) for a "new series"... You make sense in
that it could have ending episodes each week with some continuity: Now to get
the powers that be to green-light another APES series... But my guess would be
that with new movies still coming out and being developed, they'd probably wait
until the box office run is at an end which could be a problem, you have to
strike while the iron is hot... With our luck, they'll announce a new APES TV
series and it will forever be in limbo like the much talked about (potential)
STAR WARS television series...
As far as the original TV series: I wonder
if it would have faired better if it had been done when they were originally
thinking about doing one (if I remember correctly, the BEHIND doc said
1973?)
In a message dated 7/13/2014 2:02:28 PM Central
Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
I agree that series that are only about long story arcs are
problematic - but you can easily do both - have stand alone stories each week,
but also include a long-term goal or mystery that is gradually being worked
towards.
My only problem with the original TV series was its formulaic
writing - same basic plot week after week - same villain, same heroes,
different village. Sort of what I call "The Battlestar Galactica
Problem" - here you have this whole new universe to explore, but you always
end up with Adama and Baltar bickering with each other.
In my ideal
series, you've had a core group of heroes made up of a mix of humans/apes
trying to discover the real genesis of the ape society, with the astronauts
slowly discovering that they're still on Earth, and then trying to reach Cape
Kennedy in order to see if they can salvage a spacecraft, with clues and
dangers unfolding each week as to what might have happe ned as they travel
from place to place, so the story actually grows and has a feeling of
progression.
It would be cool for them to stumble upon Apes
performing brutal surgery on humans, cannibalistic remnants of humanity
warring with each other, strange, mutated creatures, and burned out cities,
all the while bolstered by comedic and sympathetic interplay between the
heroes about civilized behavior.
<.html
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62575 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on new TV show |
|
.html
Yeah, I was thinking about that as well - now that they've gone the CGI route, could you ever go back? The ape makeup in Tim Burton's film was actually very good (with the
exception of Helena Bonham Carter, who was "glammed up") - an animated version might work, but TV animation, even Clone Wars, feels more emotionally removed than seeing flesh and blood. <.html
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62576 |
From: Tim |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: More press for my collection! |
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62577 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: More press for my collection! |
.htmlLove the shirt!
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62578 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
.html
That's why it's important "Dawn" does not good
but great at the box office. If crap like "Transformers" and "Spidey are big
hits and acclaimed stuff like "Edge of Tomorrow" and "How to Train Your Dragon"
are flopping, what message does that send? Fox took a chance on "Dawn" and I
want it to be worth it.
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 4:58 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "Dawn" box office looking up
Yeah, Apes definitely does better when left out of the hands of "the suits"
in Hollywood - in his recent interviews, Matt Reeves seemed really surprised at
how much freedom he was given to pursue his vision - and I was surprised at how
much money was leveraged for the production (currently being reported at 170M!)
- which shows at least that there are still people in 20th Century Fox who
believe in the viability of the Apes franchise. <.html |
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| Group: potadg |
Message: 62579 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Go Ape! podcast |
.html
Don't know if this has been posted but there is a new/recent podcast out there called "Go Ape!" and it's going through each movie, and then each episode of the two TV series in order.
Go Ape Podcast
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Go Ape Podcast
Go Ape Podcast! You'll go APE for our take on the entire Planet of the Apes Universe. We'll be...
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Preview by Yahoo |
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| Group: potadg |
Message: 62580 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html
Well, yeah, but I don't think a middling B.O. would ever kill the franchise - Hollywood is too desperate for proven properties to ever let it die completely.
Look at it this way - Tim Burton's 2001 film was a commercial success, but critically drubbed, and despite it's B.O. poundage, didn't rate a sequel. "Rise" was an OK success, but
critically did very well, and here's a bigger and better sequel. So I think that's reason for hope... |
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| Group: potadg |
Message: 62581 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: My Review of PotA: Firestorm |
.html
.html
"Firestorm" takes place early. Dreyfus may have
become embittered in the years since (I haven't finished the book yet). But the
humans in "Dawn" could've been more interesting.
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 6:53 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: My Review of PotA:
Firestorm
Hard to give it movie like rating. And how much of an Apes fan are you
would factor in how much you enjoy this. But If I had to, I'd give it a 3.5 or 4
out of five.
>> Dawn Spoilers
>> Dawn Spoilers
Now that I've
seen Dawn, I must say this though. It looks like the author had little insight
into where the movie eventually took us. Drefuss was characterized
as rather a rather intelligent, noble, and honorable man. I was sure that he
would used as the personification of the 'good' humans in the movie and the one
that would bridge Ape-Human relations. I was almost shocked to see that he
turned out to be a blind sighted war monger leader instead. He is quite
different that what I was led to expect. I was also surprised to see that he
ended up being a relatively minor character (the talent's of Gary Oldman being
wated really, but that's another story).
<.html
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|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62582 |
From: Dario Sciola |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: My Review of PotA: Firestorm |
.html
The lack of insight I was referring too was strictly on the differences in character portrayals I mentioned. You'll just have to read the book to see what I mean by Dreyfuss being different. He is the voice of
calm and reason in Firestorm. He was more like Malcolm.
PS: I have been enjoying the other ongoing discussions with Jeff and Mike. Just don't have the time to chime in as much as I'd like. Dario |
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| Group: potadg |
Message: 62583 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: My Review of PotA: Firestorm |
.html
Yeah, I realized that after I wrote my note - I've ordered the book from Amazon, and it should be here later this week!
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|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62584 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Opening final: $72.6 million |
.html
.html
The final opening # for "Dawn" is in, $72.6
million. Not much different than the $73 million estimate. It's considered a
strong opening. The movie also made $30 million internationally from the few
countries it opened in (thanks to the World Cup). So the total is $103 million
so far.
Where does Dawn's opening place it among the
summer's elite?
1. Transformers - $97 million (currently #1
worldwide: $752 m.)
2. Capt. America - $95 million (#3: $712
m.)
3. Godzilla - $93 million (#6: $487
m.)
4. Spidey - $91 million (#4: $705
m.)
5. X-Men - $90 million (#2: $731
m.)
6. Dawn - $73 million
7. Maleficent - $69 million (#5: 669
m.)
Instead of wearing clothes, can the apes wear
superhero outfits? <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62585 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Nice article on the CGI in "Dawn" (Some spoilers) |
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62586 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Opening final: $72.6 million |
.html
The movie also made $30 million internationally from the few countries it opened in (thanks to the World Cup). So the total is $103 million so
far.
Yeah, and it still has several major overseas markets to open in - I'm optimistic about it's final total. |
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| Group: potadg |
Message: 62587 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Revised Apes logo for board? |
.html
I whipped this up - if you like it, feel free to use it - (or not!) |
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| Group: potadg |
Message: 62588 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Dawn Concept Art |
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62589 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Revised Apes logo for board? |
|
.html
Here's the .jpg, in case the .tif file doesn't show... <.html
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|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62590 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Matt Reeves talks about future Apes films and their trajectory... |
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62591 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Bravo to Matt Reeves! |
.html.html
Cougar – it’s a whole lot better than DAWN – it’s actually good….even great!
J
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 9 July 2014 6:46 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bravo to Matt Reeves!
As long as there's nothing like the unnecessary and embarrassingly bad use of the "Damn dirty ape" line in RISE... That whole bit is
cringeworthy...
In a message dated 7/8/2014 10:01:42 PM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
Saw Dawn tonight and was thoroughly pleased! Not cheesy at all.. Very well written. Lots of themes from the original. Any homages had meaning and
substance. <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62592 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Bravo to Matt Reeves! |
.html.html He did.
We both loved it.
Not flawless, but good enough to ignore the flaws.
We both felt the pacing was a bit rushed, and I suggested it was a longer film cut down (which seems to have been confirmed by Jeff K).
Get out there Mike
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, 10 July 2014 6:45 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Bravo to Matt Reeves!
Did Whitty see it with you?
In a message dated 7/9/2014 6:52:35 AM Central Daylight Time,
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
I saw it this afternoon, I agree completely with what Tim said. Huge improvement on Rise.
Neil
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62593 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: An article on my collection! |
.html.html Great stuff Tim!
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Saturday, 12 July 2014 3:39 AM
To: POTA; POTADG
Subject: [PotaDG] An article on my collection! <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62594 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: possible spoilers: "Battle" refs in "Dawn" |
.html.html
I believe it was setting up a more “Battle” movie with apes and humans living together under Caesar, going to war against the
humans (mutants?) invading from the alert they sent out. I suspect Gary Oldmans character has survived the blast and his face will be mutanty!
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, 13 July 2014 7:24 AM
To:
pota@yahoogroups.com; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] possible spoilers: "Battle" refs in "Dawn"
"Dawn" may not be a perfect movie but I think it's a perfect retelling of "Battle". Here's some of the references I picked up
(intentional or not). Any others?
an emphasis on Caesar's son
An ape finds that guns are power and becomes leader
Caesar travels to a destroyed human building where he sees video of his deceased family and also decides what it is he'd like to change
Climactic battle up high between the ape protagonist and antagonist, with one falling to their death
Extra credit, "Beneath" reference: gorillas using a log to bust open a door <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62595 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
.html.html
I see what you mean – I think it's Serkis who they want to keep on though not Caesar! When they realise they can get Serkis to play
Son of Caesar they will kill him! J
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, 13 July 2014 11:13 AM
To:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
Hi everyone - new to the group, but LONG time Apes fan. I saw the new movie yesterday at the first screening, and was very impressed - it sucked me into the characters and plot immediately, and didn't let go
for 2/3rds of the film. I am thrilled at how good of a movie it is.
I wanted to discuss one of the plot points (SPOILERS!!!) that occurs in the movie. If you haven't seen the film yet, you might want to skip this thread... >>>>
>>>> >>>> >>>> OK - moving on...
When Caesar is shot by Koba, and then nursed back to health the humans, I felt it was a bit of a "Hollywood" style cheat - a case of the lead character being so essential to the franchise that he's going
to become basically "un-killable". In the original movies - lead characters were killed in often shocking manner - the end of "Beneath" and "Escape" are incredibly surprising - and I
felt the same (pleased) shocking surprise when Caesar is shot - I thought it was a strikingly brave choice on the writer's part - only to realize that he was going to be brought back in order to have a climactic
battle with Koba at the end. That's when I felt the movie lose me, just a little.
Putting aside that this is clearly meant to be Caesar's story - and that Andy Serkus is almost single-handedly responsible for the success of the character - do you think that there is room in today's POTA a
surprising left turn like those of the early films? <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62596 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Blu-ray: "Dawn" extended cut |
.html.html
Neil Foster and I sat through the credits wondering if the battleship would show up!
J
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, 13 July 2014 2:04 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Blu-ray: "Dawn" extended cut
I thought I saw in a preview a shot of an American warship sailing up San Francisco bay, which wasn't in the final movie - I wonder if that is the alternate "military" ending the interviewer was speaking
of. <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62597 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: TV Series on the Planet of the Apes |
.html.html I agree.
I have written some comics with Neil Foster and we have some ideas of how to do a TV Show.
We are trying to get the time and resources to get this happening and I have spoken to Neil Gaiman about this (he is interested but busy
– I hope a tighter outline might get him more interested).
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, 13 July 2014 2:13 PM
To:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
Hi, Jeff - thanks for the welcome! I'm just glad there's a forum to talk about these things, since none of my close friends are "Apes" fans. You sort of need a current POTA event to
get people talking about it again - that's what made me search out this forum.
Yeah, I understand about the whole needing to turn a profit thing - especially with the POTA franchise - it's not like Star Trek or Star Wars which has much larger audiences.
The movie does many things well - I loved the almost classical nature of Caesar and Koba's relationship - almost Shakespearean in its intensity. And the fear of the humans throughout was palpable - as
was Caesar's initial distrust of humans.
On a side note, I've always thought that it would be a good idea to re-visit POTA on the TV screen; the previous two series (live action and animated) both lacked in storylines
- these days you could make a much darker, more visceral series that could incorporate larger story arcs and more world-building, and be a way to keep the Apes franchise in the public eye. But that's just me
dreaming away... <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62598 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Rise of the Dawn |
.html.html
Ha! “Fight like apes…oh dear my mouth fell off!”
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, 13 July 2014 4:26 PM
To:
pota@yahoogroups.com; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Rise of the Dawn
After seeing "Dawn" again, I watched some of "Rise" and it almost hurt my eyes, the apes in "Dawn" are so good. In the old days the
apes got worse from film to film. Now they get better. <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62599 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
.html
Yes, Sirkus can play multiple characters, but there are also an upcoming group of motion-capture actors who are following in his footsteps as well - just read an article where Sirkus was
hired by the Avengers 2 to teach the actor who plays the Hulk how to better act the performance - so others are learning the craft, which, if they continue doing Apes films with CGI (seems likely) then others will be
able to step into Sirkus's shoes. <.html
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|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62600 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
.html.html
Yeah – VERONICA MARS (one of my fave TV Shows EVER!) proved you need a conclusion AND a long story arc…..
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, 13 July 2014 7:37 PM
To:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
Yes, an updated TV series would be welcome by me as well... I do think the original TV series gets unfairly knocked by a lot of people though: I like it a
lt myself... You mentioned larger story arcs as a good idea for a potential new series, in a way I agree with you, but at he same time I like it better when an weekly TV episode has a "conclusion"... I
don't mind if they reference things from past episodes, but I myself just don't care for having to "commit" to a series... I don't like the idea of being lost if you miss an episode or two... I
know it's easier to be able to catch up on shows these days, but I still like the idea of each episode having an "ending", maybe it's just me?
As far as RETURN, for an animated series, I think it had a fairly decent story arc, much more than any other animated series I can think of... I just wish it had been renewed for a second season (even if just a few
episodes like so many "second seasons" of animated shows were) so there would have been a conclusion to its story...
In a message dated 7/12/2014 11:59:19 PM Central Daylight Time,
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
On a side note, I've always thought that it would be a good idea to re-visit POTA on the TV screen; the previous two series (live action and animated)
both lacked in storylines - these days you could make a much darker, more visceral series that could incorporate larger story arcs and more world-building, and be a way to keep the Apes franchise in the public
eye. But that's just me dreaming away...
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62601 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Opening final: $72.6 million |
.html.html
Well that’s what it cost right?
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2014 2:29 AM
To:
pota@yahoogroups.com; PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Opening final: $72.6 million
The final opening # for "Dawn" is in, $72.6 million. Not much different than the $73 million estimate. It's considered a strong opening. The movie
also made $30 million internationally from the few countries it opened in (thanks to the World Cup). So the total is $103 million so far.
Where does Dawn's opening place it among the summer's elite?
1. Transformers - $97 million (currently #1 worldwide: $752 m.)
2. Capt. America - $95 million (#3: $712 m.)
3. Godzilla - $93 million (#6: $487 m.)
4. Spidey - $91 million (#4: $705 m.)
5. X-Men - $90 million (#2: $731 m.)
7. Maleficent - $69 million (#5: 669 m.)
Instead of wearing clothes, can the apes wear superhero outfits? <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62602 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Opening final: $72.6 million |
|
.html No, the estimated cost (according to IMDB) is 170M. <.html
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62603 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html.html
That's a REALLY good point about being set in the not too far distant future.
They need to be set at LEAST when most current teenagers will be dead – like 2019 or there abouts.
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, 14 July 2014 4:46 AM
To:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] "Dawn" box office looking up
I think the reason that Apes isn't doing 100M business on its opening weekend, is that it simply doesn't command the large, YOUNG fan bases that other franchises have - but very few franchises can really
do that. Yes, there's the AWFUL Transformers, but even that is losing its box office luster, with the latest installment definitely showing signs of viewer fatigue. And Sony's Spider-Man, although
still doing multi-million-dollar business around the world, is also slipping - with the latest movie down from all previous ones. This is a bad summer for the movie biz.
That said, I also think that the latest installments, despite their brilliant quality, shoot themselves in the foot a bit by placing the action in the (near) future. I
remember being reluctant to see Rise of the Planet of the Apes first because of Tim Burton's monstrosity (which had left a bad taste), and secondly, because it seemed there would be little or no "science
fiction" element - it was taking place in (for all intents and purposes) the here and now, so there would be no "ape city" no "wastelands" no mutants, no spaceships - which is part of the Apes
allure - especially if you're aiming at a young demographic.
I haven't seen any data yet on what age/gender are going to see DotPOTA, but I would be curious to see how its skewing. <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62604 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
.html.html
LOVED Pacific Rim – my fave Director!
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, 14 July 2014 4:49 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: "Dawn" box office looking up
Well, if the 73M holds, that's all for the good - it means that word of mouth helped propel some extra business its way, and means that continuing word of mouth push may keep it on the charts longer.
Domestic totals are good, but also we need to remember that these days, it's really the international B.O. that makes or breaks a movie's total profit margin. I was shocked - SHOCKED to read that
Pacific Rim is now getting a sequel! But it owes it all to good international B.O.
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62605 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Blu-ray: "Dawn" extended cut |
|
.html
Whew! So I *wasn't* the only one! I seriously thought there has to be a Battleship in here somewhere!?! <.html
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62606 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
.html.html
The original had the "disc" but they dropped the ball on that.
It was just rushed scripting and NO planning.
Your ideas are similar to mine.
The astros first need to decide if they are going to accept this world or not.
Would you?
They then need to look for advanced humans – start at the important places…..military bases, rocket launch sites…..the White
House…..
We would have Alan's son also landing and running into his dad for a "handover".
More like the Walking Dead……
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, 14 July 2014 5:02 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes
I agree that series that are only about long story arcs are problematic - but you can easily do both - have stand alone stories each week, but also include a long-term goal or mystery that is gradually being worked
towards.
My only problem with the original TV series was its formulaic writing - same basic plot week after week - same villain, same heroes, different village. Sort of what I call
"The Battlestar Galactica Problem" - here you have this whole new universe to explore, but you always end up with Adama and Baltar bickering with each other.
In my ideal series, you've had a core group of heroes made up of a mix of humans/apes trying to discover the real genesis of the ape society, with the astronauts slowly
discovering that they're still on Earth, and then trying to reach Cape Kennedy in order to see if they can salvage a spacecraft, with clues and dangers unfolding each week as to what might have happened as they
travel from place to place, so the story actually grows and has a feeling of progression.
It would be cool for them to stumble upon Apes performing brutal surgery on humans, cannibalistic remnants of humanity warring with each other, strange, mutated creatures, and
burned out cities, all the while bolstered by comedic and sympathetic interplay between the heroes about civilized behavior. <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62607 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: "Dawn" box office looking up |
|
.html
Well, my initial thought was that "Rise" appeared a bit on the "cheap" side, setting it in modern-day SF - sort of the same thing when "Escape" was placed
in the 1970s, all in a cost-cutting measure. <.html
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62608 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
.html.html
They are mute in the first movie simply to show the tide has turned, I believe.
Also – weren't they mute in Boulle's Monkey Planet?
They still were in BENEATH but there were some survivors who could speak and were telepathic.
I've always wanted to come across a city where the humans had their tongues removed and were forced to be submissive…suggesting this
is what happens everywhere.
I think to a lesser extent this is where the TV Show could have been going – to show how humans were less and less trusted. Maybe
after a revolution?
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, 14 July 2014 5:18 AM
To:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] The various humans found in POTA series...
I tried looking to see if this thread had ever been discussed here, and didn't see it, so I'm going to bring it up.
It's a question involving the different kinds of humans as presented in the POTA series over the years.
- In 1968's POTA, the only native humans are mute, no reason is given for this - they're brutal, bestial, a true reversal of modern humanity, and, according to the
Apes, they're the ONLY kind of humans left.
- In Beneath
, we meet the mutants - they can speak, but are primarily telepathic. Mute humanity is only represented by Nova.
- In Escape and
Conquest, we're shown normal humans
- In Battle, we meet a different group of mutants, scarred and xenophobic, but otherwise normal.
- In the 1974 TV series, humans seem completely normal, just stuck in sort of medieval farming communities.
- In 2001's POTA, the humans seem normal, and can talk, but are hunted and oppressed by the Apes.
I've always felt that the most successful appearance of the humans was in the first POTA; it created a true dichotomy between the barely civilized Apes, and the bestial remnants of humanity. It also created
an intriguing mystery - Zira stated there is no physiological reason for the Human lack of speech, so what caused it? As far as I know (and I'm not a rabid collector, so maybe this has been addressed
somewhere) this has never been explained.
In fact, it seems that every other Apes movie has simply ignored the presence of mutes in the first movie, and never addressed it again. Am I wrong? Has this been explained somewhere? <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62609 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Opening final: $72.6 million |
.html.html OK
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2014 12:51 PM
To:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Opening final: $72.6 million
No, the estimated cost (according to IMDB) is 170M. <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62610 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
.html.html
Depending if the timeline is reset in Escape or if Planet is inevitable (oh dear this argument again!)
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Monday, 14 July 2014 10:11 PM
To:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: The various humans found in POTA series...
Thanks, mlccougar for the heads up about the article - makes sense that it would be a production choice rather than an effort to do a linear story-line continuation of the subject. So much of Apes cinema as we
know it has been driven by base-line economic causes, that I guess I shouldn't be surprised that this one was too. It's just that I like mysteries in films, and this is one that has never been (officially)
solved.
So I guess from a timeline standpoint, the mutes in the first movie were just a small clan, rather than representative of the whole remnant of humanity, given the range of peoples
we meet in the various films/TV series. <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62611 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on new TV show |
.html.html
Yes you could and I would go with prosthetics.
Possibly CGI lips (Clutch Cargo?) but definitely classic look
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2014 12:51 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Thoughts on new TV show
Yeah, I was thinking about that as well - now that they've gone the CGI route, could you ever go back? The ape makeup in Tim Burton's film was actually very good (with the exception of Helena Bonham
Carter, who was "glammed up") - an animated version might work, but TV animation, even Clone Wars, feels more emotionally removed than seeing flesh and blood. <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62612 |
From: Sally and Michael |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: More press for my collection! |
.html.html AWESOME!
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2014 12:55 AM
To: POTA group; POTADG
Subject: [PotaDG] More press for my collection!
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62613 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
.html
I'm not sure if I would want to tie in directly with the old TV series with some kind of guest appearance or nod - just start fresh. I know there's a fan base for the original
series, but it's not large enough to reference for a new audience... and I'd really want to take a new series in a completely new direction, with a much more desperate, mysterious tone to it.
My biggest question about the Planet of the Apes is the extent of the change - after 2,000 years ALL traces of humanity would be gone - It's been claimed that if humanity vanished from the earth, nature
would very quickly claim every recognizable human artifact, and wiped from existence after just 100-150 years!
Of course, viscerally, it's more fun to see The Statue of Liberty half buried in the sand, or the New York Public Library cracked and crushed underground - but realistically, most everything would be destroyed
after two millennia - it would be a new world.
None of the Apes films have really taken place on a grand scale, (and that includes "Dawn") They've all been about small, contained communities, Ape City, The Forbidden Zone, a colony here and
there - but if this truly is a *planet* of Apes - then a much larger palette can be referenced. There are mutants - human ones of different types (and why not mutant animals? The TV show "The 100"
is good at creating these. And if there are mutant humans why not some mutated *simian* monstrosities that the other apes don't know about?) Bizarre atmospheric changes (which are briefly referenced in the
first movie, but never again) would make for interesting storylines as well. |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62614 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
.html
Yeah, when it comes to timelines - I think the Apes franchise has shown that it's not really beholden to either the source material, or itself.
 |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62615 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
.html
Yes, I think the humans were mute in Boulle's novel - but obviously felt they needed a more colorful palette for their actors to play on.
But from my point of view - mute, bestial humans are more compelling as a narrative device than oppressed, or even mutated humanity - Muteness represents a fundamental shift in what it means to be human - and the
humans in POTA weren't only mute - they were beasts.
If I were writing a screenplay or novel to explain their condition and how they got it, I would like to have the Apes themselves begin to manipulate human bloodlines through selective breeding and surgical
experimentation perhaps a thousand years previously - in order to remove the lingering threat of humanity, without having to hunt down and exterminate the entire species. That would tie in nicely with what Doctors
Zira and Zaius were doing with their controlled capture and surgical experimentation on humans - but by the time we meet them, only Zaius knows the real reason - Zira believes its compassionate scientific exploration.
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62616 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Opening final: $72.6 million |
.html
.html
It cost $170 million, reportedly.
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 7:49 PM
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Opening final: $72.6 million
Well thats
what it cost right?
From:
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
[PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2014 2:29
AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com;
PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject:
[PotaDG] Opening final: $72.6 million
The final opening # for "Dawn" is in, $72.6
million. Not much different than the $73 million estimate. It's considered a
strong opening. The movie also made $30 million internationally from the few
countries it opened in (thanks to the World Cup). So the total is $103 million
so far.
Where does Dawn's opening place it among the
summer's elite?
1. Transformers - $97 million (currently #1
worldwide: $752 m.)
2. Capt. America - $95 million (#3: $712
m.)
3. Godzilla - $93 million (#6: $487
m.)
4. Spidey - $91 million (#4: $705
m.)
5. X-Men - $90 million (#2: $731
m.)
7. Maleficent - $69 million (#5: 669
m.)
Instead of wearing clothes, can the apes wear
superhero outfits?
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62617 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/14/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Blu-ray: "Dawn" extended cut |
.html
.html
According to the interview, they felt that ending
would've "boxed them in" for the next sequel, so they cut it (it didn't even
reach the FX stage). They wanted to leave it more "open-ended". But they cut 5 -
8 minutes of finished stuff that will be on the blu-ray.
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 7:51 PM
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Blu-ray: "Dawn" extended
cut
Whew! So I *wasn't* the only one! I seriously thought there has
to be a Battleship in here somewhere!?! <.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62618 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
.html.html .html
This would have been a good idea... Some humans in the TV show show signs of being subservient and dumbed down a degree or two over the generations, but still some act too
"smart", especially Leuric in "Up Above The World So High"... In the series, they are referred to as "Unruly beasts" who are "the carriers of hatred and destruction"... In
"The Deception", Sestus refers to them as "animals", and in "The Legacy", Zaius refers to "Our domesticated humans"... All of these are examples of how they're becoming dumbed
down as the future goes on and they're seen as something just above an animal... (I think Effinger's books capture the feeling of how humanity is supposed to be downgraded more than the episodes themselves...)
Anyway, I think the TV series does show that humans are already less and less trusted and seen as something you'd want to keep at arms length... I'd like to think had the series gone on, there would have been
more instances of that type of thing....
In a message dated 7/14/2014 10:00:13 PM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
I think to a lesser extent this is where the TV Show could have been going – to show how humans were less
and less trusted. Maybe after a revolution?
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62619 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
.html.html .html
Exactly, in PLANET they are mute to show complete role reversals of the species...
And yes Whitty, in Boulle's book they are/were even more animal: they didn't even wear "rags" to cover themselves, they were naked...
Being the film was based on the book, I think the movie was striving to make them "animals", but of course to get anywhere near a releasable film rating, they couldn't go as far as Boulle did by having them
nude...
In a message dated 7/14/2014 10:00:13 PM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
They are mute in the first movie simply to show the tide has turned, I believe.
Also – weren't they mute in Boulle's Monkey Planet?
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62620 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Bravo to Matt Reeves! |
.html.html .htmlWhitty,
You mean it's better than RISE, right? :)
Anyway, I intend to see DAWN, but as mentioned to Jeff, I might wait until the DVD release: I'm just usually not a big "going to the theater" person...
In a message dated 7/14/2014 9:28:57 PM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
Cougar – it's a whole lot better than DAWN – it's actually good….even great! J
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62621 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
.html.html .html
This is true about the disc, however since he wrote the two episodes the disc was mentioned in, had Art Wallace been tapped to write more episodes, maybe references to the
disc might have shown up again... (He wrote "Escape From Tomorrow" and "The Gladiators, so the idea of the disc was his "baby"...)
In a message dated 7/14/2014 9:55:53 PM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
The original had the "disc" but they dropped the ball on that.
It was just rushed scripting and NO planning.
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62622 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: More press for my collection! |
.html.html .html
Yes, Tim's collection getting press is cool... Maybe he needs to write the book on APES collectibles: He certainly has more than a collection of T-shirts as heavily
featured in the original book on APES collectibles...
Whitty: Do you still have your collection? Maybe you and Tim should collaborate?
In a message dated 7/14/2014 10:11:38 PM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
AWESOME!
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, 15 July 2014 12:55 AM
To: POTA group; POTADG
Subject: [PotaDG] More press for my collection!
A local station came out for a remote feed this morning...
http://www.wccbcharlotte.com/rising/wilsons-world/Going-Ape-with-Wilson-and-the-Planet-of-the-Ape-266994141.htmlm=y&smobile=y
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62623 |
From: mlccougar |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
.html.html .html
Good ideas... I myself would be leary of "mutated animals", but that's just me... Maybe it's because I fear another screeching lizard and giant snow
gorilla as seen in RETURN ;)
In a message dated 7/14/2014 10:14:04 PM Central Daylight Time, PotaDG@yahoogroups.com writes:
None of the Apes films have really taken place on a grand scale, (and that includes "Dawn")
They've all been about small, contained communities, Ape City, The Forbidden Zone, a colony here and there - but if this truly is a *planet* of Apes - then a much larger palette can be referenced. There are
mutants - human ones of different types (and why not mutant animals? The TV show "The 100" is good at creating these. And if there are mutant humans why not some mutated *simian* monstrosities that
the other apes don't know about?) Bizarre atmospheric changes (which are briefly referenced in the first movie, but never again) would make for interesting storylines as well.
<.html<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62624 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
|
.html Well, obviously, it's all about design and execution of said creatures... <.html
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62625 |
From: Neil Moxham |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
.html
I was going to say something about 'The 100', but you beat me to it! It's only been onscreen here for two weeks and so far looks to me a lot like DotPotA, with humans returning to an abandoned irradiated
Earth and finding lots of forests filled with mutated creatures. I don't know quite where it's going but I keep half expecting talking apes to wander into view! A lot of implausibly beautiful and almost entirely
white human survivors (with a surprising number of Australian lead actors, BTW) and lots of teen romance subplots, but it's one of the few TV series I'll be keeping an eye on.
Dawn doesn't hit Irish screens until later this week but the publicity here has been MUCH bigger than it was for Rise. |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62626 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: That disappearing battleship |
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62627 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Thoughts on Dawn of the Planet of the Apes |
.htmlOooh, you've got something really good to look forward to!
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62628 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: They sank Dawn's battleship |
.html
.html
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
SPOILER
I think the original ending was probably similar
to what we got, but with the military arriving (or being shown on the way). The
way they ended it leaves it wide open, as they wanted. They can go with the
military in the next one (the seeds are planted) or start after that. Maybe
Caesar could lead the apes toward New York to get away from the military. Or the
military engagement leads to nuclear war. So many ways to go.
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62629 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: They sank Dawn's battleship |
.html
Yes, that's what it sounds like was planned - perhaps not so far as an actual military engagement, but at least the appearance of a warship, which of course would HAVE to lead into an
armed conflict in the next Apes film.
But from the interview segments I've been reading, it sounds like the director and writers don't feel the need to take things too fast - they realize that they've got 2,000 years to play around with, and
they're more interested in telling small, personal stories with lots of emotional content, rather than paint with broad strokes and large canvasses. Which works very well for "Dawn" - but will
audiences crave more as the series progresses? |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62630 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Dawn soundtrack |
.html
.html
The Dawn CD wuz supposed to come out today; now
according to Amazon it won't be until August 12. This is an outrage! Obama did
this!
Meanwhile, I'll have to live vicariously through
Youtube.
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62631 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Dawn soundtrack |
.html
It's been available on Spotify for at least a week now - I listened to it before I saw the movie - and had two completely different reactions to it:
I'm a soundtrack aficionado, and own all the classic Apes soundtracks, love the all - but when I first listened to the Dawn soundtrack by Michael Giacchino, I was gravely disappointed... it seemed to lack
thematic material, or any of the great, gushing colors that I so associate with Jerry Goldsmith's and Leonard Rosenman's great Apes scores, which were full of alien cacophonies. The "Dawn" score
seemed to be purely atmospheric, with slow rising or falling dynamics, or boring, repetitive rhythmic sections which have become all the rage in our era of Hans Zimmer clones (a composer whose work I loathe).
In fact, none of the modern day Ape scores have a place in my collection - Not Elfman's not Doyle's. I guess I'm just old fashioned in my tastes, but I prefer the more dynamic,
"full-blooded" soundtracks.
BUT - when I saw the movie in the theater, I was surprised - Giacchino's score works marvellously well - it compliments the subtle storycraft of "Dawn" and peeks in and out in very effective ways,
giving subtle color to the complex characters and plot. So - while I don't think it's very listenable outside of the film, like much of John Williams or Bernard Herrmann's works, Giacchino was an ideal
choice for this movie. |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62632 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: MORE detail on what the original ending was... |
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62633 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Monkees watching Monkess (and so... it begins) |
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62634 |
From: Neil Moxham |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
.html
Don't forget, Nova was able to utter one word when she really needed to (although that was part of Beneath's tampering with the original formula).
<.html
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62635 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: The various humans found in POTA series... |
|
.html
Well, in the films, Nova too, is far less wild than the others in the tribe - she's actually fairly quiet, observant, and sedate throughout the film (except when she's agitated, as
when Taylor is taken from her) - but I can't recall if this was how she was portrayed in Boulle's novel. <.html
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62636 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Nice article on Apes comics - including new DAWN tie-in |
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62637 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Original DAWN ending |
.html
.html
This link has Matt Reeves describing how DAWN was
going to end. Not much difference. It was a good idea to cut it. Gives them more
freedom next time.
Needless to say, SPOILERS!
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62638 |
From: Neil Moxham |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Dawn soundtrack |
.htmlI'm not
a soundtrack aficionado but I completely agree with your take on Apes soundtracks - Doyle and Elfman just don't excite on isolated listening (sorry Jeff!), not in the way that Goldsmith, Rosenman and
possibly Scott do. I like the cartoon series soundtrack too (by Dean Elliott), though it's never been issued.
|
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62639 |
From: Jeff K. |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Dawn soundtrack |
.html
.html
I just don't get that. The soundtracks for
"Beneath", Escape", "Conquest" and "Battle" (which I have) are great in the
movies but listening to them on their own they're a bunch of noise (except for
certain tracks). I love Elfman and Doyle as listening experiences. I was kinda
disappointed in Giacchino, even though I'm a big fan ("Lost", "Alias", "Star
Trek", M:I 3, I have all of those). He kind of does the same few themes over and
over. But enough good bits I'll get the CD. I don't do the downloads ("I don't
go in for fads"). I wouldn't be surprised if iTunes is behind the CD delay.
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 10:54 AM
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Dawn soundtrack
I'm not a soundtrack aficionado but I completely
agree with your take on Apes soundtracks - Doyle and Elfman just don't excite on
isolated listening (sorry Jeff!), not in the way that Goldsmith, Rosenman and
possibly Scott do. I like the cartoon series soundtrack too (by Dean Elliott),
though it's never been issued.
<.html |
|
| Group: potadg |
Message: 62640 |
From: bretw1967 |
Date: 7/15/2014 |
| Subject: Re: Dawn soundtrack |
.html
I like some other Giacchino scores - not the ones you mention; I *really* liked his James Bond-fueled "The Incredibles" and also his big action score for "John Carter."
As for the 'noisy' elements of the early Apes scores - I think that's what primarily attracted me to them - their 'avant-garde' weirdness - it was such an integral part of creating the
"alien world" vibe when watching those early movies, that although they're not "pleasant" listening, they're extremely evocative, and indelibly imprinted in my brain as part of the Apes
universe, just as John Williams themes for Star Wars or Jaws were to their respective films. One of my favorite all-time movie "scores" is the electronic one to 1956's "Forbidden Planet" -
just a bunch of weird out-there tonalities.
But with the most recent soundtracks, I never felt like the scores were absolutely essential to the movies - and that you could easily transpose other modern composers soundtracks in their place and not miss them.
Most especially with Elfman's 2001 score - which was so bereft of thematic material that it was pretty strongly derided on its initial release. But even Doyle's and Giachhino's scores are far more
conventional and to my ears, colorless, than any previous Apes soundtrack - and with Apes - I want the soundtrack to be as bold and strange as the idea of the Apes are themselves - a truly upside down world.
And yes, even though I really dislike "The Return of the Planet of the Apes" cartoon, I too, would like to see a soundtrack collection released - it's got the sturm and drang that I love.
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