--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Hallenbeck" <junior@...> wrote:

Please contact me off-list if you're interested.

> Thanks,
> Mike Hallenbeck
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "daytonward@..." <daytonward@...> wrote:

> BTW, this is my first post after returning from a long absence. I
used to
> follow the group a few years ago, but my Apes interest waned for a
while,
> only to be renewed thanks to the recent comics series. Good stuff
> there...hope they get to do more!
>
> Dayton
> http://www.daytonward.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
>

> Also why doesn't the government just suppress the revolt? just go in
> and kill Ceaser really fast?

> And Ceaser having telepatic powers over 600-700 million apes?

Happy Friday everyone! This week's LESSON FROM THE LAWGIVER is now available. Thanks to everyone who contributed.

To view the LESSON click the banner on the Yahoo Home Page or use this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm.

Have a great weekend everyone!

>
> There's a line in the movie Conquest that suggests Caesar's mental
> powers...(and I'm paraphrasing horribly here) "If an emperor moth

> communicate with other moths over a space of miles...imagine the

> emperor ape..." It's a tossaway line that Joe and I liked, and

> with....especially given that the Caesar in our story had a bizarre
> relationship to space/time that wasn't unexplored.
>
> As to the bomb being built in Taylor's time....I'll confess to

> forgotten Taylor's dialogue from Beneath suggesting his

> bomb...but it doesn't preclude Brent's involvement with its

> One might consider that the bomb Taylor sees (not the very same

> story, obviously...a fact we'll be dealing with in future stories)

> generation of a weapon prototype he's familiar with.
>
> Or we messed up....one of the two.
>
> Ty
>

>
>
> > I'm going to go one step further, and risk hatred, by saying

> this
> > is the best Apes material since Conquest. It's absolutely

> both
> > tv series and Battle. I think it's probably better than Escape
> too.
> >
> > When will Empire take place? After Battle? So it would be more
> about
> > setting up the political and religious apparatus, right?
>
>
>
>
> I liked it too, but its not much more than a better version of
> Conquest, and just like Conquest, deeply flawed and non-sensical.

> mean right out of the gate it says the apes outnumbered the
> Americans by three to one. But where are they going to find 700
> million apes, and why would they attempt to
> tain/feed/clothe/shelter/police them for the sake of cheap labour,
> except as as a form of national and economic suicide.
>
> Also why doesn't the government just suppress the revolt? just go

> and kill Ceaser really fast? They must have known the Bomb was
> secure. Don't they have telephones in the silo.
>
> And Ceaser having telepatic powers over 600-700 million apes?
> Willing them to speak? Wow!! Did his mind-waves just spread over

> entire globe? That's one heck of a strong mind. Even stronger than
> that guy in the x-men in the wheelchair. Anyway to me it seemed a
> lame explanation of how the apes aquired speech. Its not much

> than saying that the apes could always speak, except we never knew
> it.
>

> That's it...
> "We" never knew it...
> Caesar was with the circus for a long time and had plenty of
> opportunities to corral around as they visited the many cities and
> states...
> He spread his seed...
> But, how did he let them know when the moment was nigh?

Ursus - Ron Perlman

.

GREAT!!!!!

 

He don´t need make up XD

---

All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

>
> There's a line in the movie Conquest that suggests Caesar's mental
> powers...(and I'm paraphrasing horribly here) "If an emperor moth

> communicate with other moths over a space of miles...imagine the

> emperor ape..." It's a tossaway line that Joe and I liked, and

> with....especially given that the Caesar in our story had a bizarre
> relationship to space/time that wasn't unexplored.
>
> As to the bomb being built in Taylor's time....I'll confess to

> forgotten Taylor's dialogue from Beneath suggesting his

> bomb...but it doesn't preclude Brent's involvement with its

> One might consider that the bomb Taylor sees (not the very same

> story, obviously...a fact we'll be dealing with in future stories)

> generation of a weapon prototype he's familiar with.
>
> Or we messed up....one of the two.
>
> Ty
>
> On 9/22/06, rackworthykomix <rackworthykomix@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Also why doesn't the government just suppress the revolt? just

> > > and kill Ceaser really fast?
> > The same reason the Empire gave up looking for Yoda and Obi-Wan.

> > would end the story really fast, and you'd be bored while they

> > to fill in the next eighty-odd minutes of the movie (or if you

> > five and a half issues of the comic). There are plenty of stories

> > would have ended quicker had someone done something differently

> > on. Suppose, in POTA, just one of the astronauts had said "You

> > swimming. I'm going to keep my clothes on and keep a lookout."
> >
> > > And Ceaser having telepatic powers over 600-700 million apes?
> >
> > Well, there were telepathic humans in the future who could cause

> > entire legion of apes to hallucinate.
> >
> >
> >
>

>
>
>
>
> Ursus - Ron Perlman
>
>
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> He don´t need make up XD
>
>
> He already looks like one so how much latex would he need?

> ---------------------------------
> All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get

>

>
> In the Fox 'Preliminary Production Notes' dated 1/17/73, Caesar is
> described as 'a chimpanzee with supernatural powers'.Also, as

> son, there may be something genetic in his ability to communicate

> non verbal ways---something pretty special is going on when Zira

> goodbye to Heloise in Escape, securing her complicity in swapping
> Milo for Salome.Caesar is a special guy. John, Scrolls.
> >
> > There's a line in the movie Conquest that suggests Caesar's

> > powers...(and I'm paraphrasing horribly here) "If an emperor

> can
> > communicate with other moths over a space of miles...imagine the
> power of an
> > emperor ape..." It's a tossaway line that Joe and I liked, and
> played
> > with....especially given that the Caesar in our story had a

> > relationship to space/time that wasn't unexplored.
> >
> > As to the bomb being built in Taylor's time....I'll confess to
> having
> > forgotten Taylor's dialogue from Beneath suggesting his
> foreknowledge of the
> > bomb...but it doesn't preclude Brent's involvement with its
> development.
> > One might consider that the bomb Taylor sees (not the very same
> bomb in our
> > story, obviously...a fact we'll be dealing with in future

> is a next
> > generation of a weapon prototype he's familiar with.
> >
> > Or we messed up....one of the two.
> >
> > Ty
> >
> > On 9/22/06, rackworthykomix <rackworthykomix@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > Also why doesn't the government just suppress the revolt?

> go in
> > > > and kill Ceaser really fast?
> > > The same reason the Empire gave up looking for Yoda and Obi-

> It
> > > would end the story really fast, and you'd be bored while they
> tried
> > > to fill in the next eighty-odd minutes of the movie (or if you
> will,
> > > five and a half issues of the comic). There are plenty of

> that
> > > would have ended quicker had someone done something

> early
> > > on. Suppose, in POTA, just one of the astronauts had said "You
> two go
> > > swimming. I'm going to keep my clothes on and keep a lookout."
> > >
> > > > And Ceaser having telepatic powers over 600-700 million apes?
> > >
> > > Well, there were telepathic humans in the future who could

> an
> > > entire legion of apes to hallucinate.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@> wrote:
> >
> > In the Fox 'Preliminary Production Notes' dated 1/17/73, Caesar

> > described as 'a chimpanzee with supernatural powers'.Also, as
> Zira's
> > son, there may be something genetic in his ability to

> in
> > non verbal ways---something pretty special is going on when Zira
> says
> > goodbye to Heloise in Escape, securing her complicity in

> > Milo for Salome.Caesar is a special guy. John, Scrolls.
> > >
> > > There's a line in the movie Conquest that suggests Caesar's
> mental
> > > powers...(and I'm paraphrasing horribly here) "If an emperor
> moth
> > can
> > > communicate with other moths over a space of miles...imagine

> > power of an
> > > emperor ape..." It's a tossaway line that Joe and I liked,

> > played
> > > with....especially given that the Caesar in our story had a
> bizarre
> > > relationship to space/time that wasn't unexplored.
> > >
> > > As to the bomb being built in Taylor's time....I'll confess to
> > having
> > > forgotten Taylor's dialogue from Beneath suggesting his
> > foreknowledge of the
> > > bomb...but it doesn't preclude Brent's involvement with its
> > development.
> > > One might consider that the bomb Taylor sees (not the very

> > bomb in our
> > > story, obviously...a fact we'll be dealing with in future
> stories)
> > is a next
> > > generation of a weapon prototype he's familiar with.
> > >
> > > Or we messed up....one of the two.
> > >
> > > Ty
> > >
> > > On 9/22/06, rackworthykomix <rackworthykomix@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Also why doesn't the government just suppress the revolt?
> just
> > go in
> > > > > and kill Ceaser really fast?
> > > > The same reason the Empire gave up looking for Yoda and Obi-
> Wan.
> > It
> > > > would end the story really fast, and you'd be bored while

> > tried
> > > > to fill in the next eighty-odd minutes of the movie (or if

> > will,
> > > > five and a half issues of the comic). There are plenty of
> stories
> > that
> > > > would have ended quicker had someone done something
> differently
> > early
> > > > on. Suppose, in POTA, just one of the astronauts had

> > two go
> > > > swimming. I'm going to keep my clothes on and keep a

> > > >
> > > > > And Ceaser having telepatic powers over 600-700 million

> > > >
> > > > Well, there were telepathic humans in the future who could
> cause
> > an
> > > > entire legion of apes to hallucinate.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> Yes, Caesar IS a "Special Guy" considering "Salome" was FEMALE.
> I don't think their bonding laid in the St. Francis medal
> Armando placed around Caesar's neck.
> Zira WILLED him to remember.
> Perhaps he was born with a "veil" (ie; second-sight).
> That's when the placenta emerges with the baby covering the
> eyes...
> Too numerous to mention.
>

>
> Apesters,
> 1- The infamous 2503 N.Y. pic. I found quite "un-realistic" that

> nuclear war happened so late in Taylor's original timeline (the one
> not "altered" by Caesar). I guess it happened somewhere in the 22th
> century, when the Apes made the transition from pets to slaves.

> Then, even "editing out" the TV series events from the original
> timeline of the movies, there's a doubt... if the series is firmly
> placed in 3085 A.C., then aren't 500 years TOO FEW to make develop
> an Ape culture on the West coast?

> 2- What's about the LAWGIVER in the TV series? The Sacred Scrolls?
> The culture of the Apes? The civilization? I found un-realistic
> (again) that the rural humans turned into primitives in the 3085-
> 3978 A.C. arc.

> 3- Recurring names... Galen, Zaius... everything
> screams "ALTERNATIVE DIMENSION!"

>
> Hunter's posted this week's issue a little early, so those of you

>
> Also this week, Hunter's posted some screen grabs from a 1976

>
> https://pota.goatley.com
>
> Greg
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Rob Morganbesser <rhob1960@...> wrote:
>
> Theory: The destruction of the earth by the
> Alpha/Omega bomb didn't throw the ship back through
> time, it opened a portal in time itself through which
> the ship traveled. the vacuum created - and nature
> abhors a vacuum, was just random chance. They just as
> easily could have been thrown into a further future -
> where they would have died in the ship as life support
> failed, or even further into the past. There is also
> the chance that they were thrown into an alternate
> time line's past, one where Taylor and crew came from
> NASA...
>
>
> --- James <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
> > Rewatching ESCAPE I noticed they never really
> > explain how the shock wave
> > threw the ship back in time. In other SF, like Star
> > Trek, there is
> > usually some scientific sounding explaination. But
> > in ESCAPE both Milo
> > and Hasslien gloss over it saying the shock wave
> > caused it but not
> > exactly how. Does anyone have any theories?
> >
>
>
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Mike R" <mego73@...> wrote:
>
> 3 episodes:
>
> "Tunnel Of Fear", "River Of Flames" and "Mission Of Mercy"
>
> have the type of transfer that represents a newly done one for DVD.
The rest
> are either:
>
> older 35mm transfers which don't exploit the full resolution
capabilities of
> DVD
>
> or
>
> new transfers from 16mm which would resemble older transfers.
>
>
> none of them are terrible it's just that those are the only 3
episodes that
> look like I expect something to look on DVD
>

>
> The Alpha Omega bomb is (in the
> comic) in an underground bunker in San Diego, but then it's (in
> Beneath) in an undergound church in what was New York.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Hunter Goatley <goathunter@...> wrote:
>
>
> Rory's copy aside, it appears that the discs haven't actually been
> released yet. Amazon says they ship in 10 to 14 days, and
> DVDplanet.com and DeepDiscountDVD.com don't list it at all.
>
> Hunter
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@...> wrote:
>
> I was flicking through an old Famous Monsters mag when I saw an
advert
> for the 'International Roddy McDowall Club: 528 Court St., Brooklyn,
NY
> 11231'. Anybody here ever heard of it or been a member? John, Scrolls.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hotscheetz" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:
>
> I guess you could go with Marvel's explanation on the A/O bomb, where
> the So Cal mutants migrated to NY, taking the bomb with them...

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Hunter Goatley <goathunter@...> wrote:
>
> It's obvious you never saw them---they're really pretty good quality,
> unless you're comparing them with what you're describing.
>
> In any case, now that they're commercially available, the set I did is
> an out-of-print limited edition, never to be seen again.... (Same with
> BATTLE.)
>
> Hunter
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Ty Templeton" <tybunny@...> wrote:
>
> Just because it's such a big part of the next story idea we're playing
> with...
>
> We're VERY aware that the bomb is starting in a completely different
part of
> the continent than it ends up in.
>
> Not an accident.
>
> As for Lisa talking....all she said was "No". Hardly conversational
English
> as yet. And at the start of our story, the next day, it's still the
only
> word she's said.
>
> Ty
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@...> wrote:
>
> Originally, some of the publicity bvlurbs for Conquest mention
Breck's
> death, and certainly the novel has him die.If they re-shot, they
must,
> by definition, have shot the earlier, more gruesome death of Breck---
> which must still exist somewhere? It would be something to see the
> proper, uncensored, Conquest, in all its glory. John, Scrolls.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
> If you gotta get Head, it's nice to get it as a gift!
>
> I'm not surprised they improved the transfers, for what they are
now is what
> they should be. What I can't believe is that Fox was so dumb and
uncaring of
> fans not to wait until all the work was done and do the so-
called "Ultimate
> Edition" right. Just goes to show that the Home Video companies
always leave
> you with something less than it should be so they can try to sell
it to you all
> over again.
>
> Anyway... I can't believe Amazon hasn't sent the stand alone RETURN
out to
> anyone else! Damn strange.
>
> -- Rory
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@...> wrote:
>
> Has anybody got big enough versions of the movie posters to see if
> anybody signed as artist? The 'Aldo with human over head' for Battle,
> and the Ben-Hur type for Conquest are interesting bits of work, and
I'd
> be interested to know who painted them.John, Scrolls.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "zasco1957" <Zasco1957@...> wrote:
>
> I second that, John Scrolls! And the same goes for Planet,
Beneath, and
> Escape...maybe all of us Apesters can get some kind of petition
going and
> send it to FOX so they can finally issue these deleted
scenes...maybe a
> director's cut" feature on a future DVD box set!
>
>
>
> Zach
>
>
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
>
>
> From: pota@yahoogroups.com
>
> Date: 09/20/06 09:58:11
>
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>
> Subject: [POTA] Ready Breck
>
>
>
> Originally, some of the publicity bvlurbs for Conquest mention
Breck's
>
> death, and certainly the novel has him die.If they re-shot, they
must,
>
> by definition, have shot the earlier, more gruesome death of Breck--
-
>
> which must still exist somewhere? It would be something to see the
>
> proper, uncensored, Conquest, in all its glory. John, Scrolls.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@...> wrote:
>
> I wonder though, just how reliable would a 2000 year old bomb be?
> Would it, after all those years even be the same bomb, with the same
> specs, that Taylor remembers?
>
> Would its working parts have been carfully maintained, preserved and
> replaced as necc, by the mutants? (someone obviously kept the
outside
> polished but what about the inner workings?)
>
> It was obviously still capable of packing a punch but did this
antique
> relic manage to do all the things it was built for? Even modern,
> state-of-the-art, missile strikes, exhibit a disturbing number of
duds
> and misfires.
>
> Dave
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@...> wrote:
>
> I was thinking about where the TV Series might have gone had CBS
shown
> more faith and one plot twist that popped into my diseased head was
an
> episode where Roddy plays a human as well as playing Galen.The
> potential for fun situations and them meeting would have been, I
think,
> wonderful.John, Scrolls
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "blungster06" <blungster06@...> wrote:
>
> Another continuity problem in Revolutions is the idea that Breck was
> responsible for building the Alpha/Omega. I can't remember the exact
> quote, but Breck said something like ( he ) " concieved, funded, and
> oversaw the bomb's development", so he knew exactly what it was
> capable of. Anyway if that is the case, how then could Taylor know so
> much about the bomb's specifics, when he had already left earth 20
> years bedore Breck's governership? The implication of Taylor's speech
> in Beneath is that the bomb had already been built, and that he,
> Taylor, himself, had seen it because of his level of security
> clearence.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "daytonward@..." <daytonward@...> wrote:
>
>
> BTW, this is my first post after returning from a long absence. I
used to
> follow the group a few years ago, but my Apes interest waned for a
while,
> only to be renewed thanks to the recent comics series. Good stuff
> there...hope they get to do more!
>
> Dayton
> http://www.daytonward.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
> I never thought that was believable. A nuclear missle would weigh
> several tons. It would take an enormous effort to move it 3000 miles.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hotscheetz" <HotScheetz@> wrote:
> >
> > I guess you could go with Marvel's explanation on the A/O bomb,
where
> > the So Cal mutants migrated to NY, taking the bomb with them...
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
> That is a mistake that is often made, placing Conquest & Battle on
the
> West Coast. Marvel made the same mistake in their timeline as did
John
> Jakes in the novelization. There in no indication in Conquest as to
> where they are geographically other than the notation "North
America"
> notation at the start of the film. Most people tended to assume
that it
> was California since Escape took place there (despite Armando's
Circus
> heading to Florida at the end of the film) or because it was filmed
in
> LA and had a California look to it. However, in both Dehn's and the
> Corrington's treatments for Battle it is clearly stated that
Ceasar's
> Ape City is the same community that Taylor will find some 2,000
years
> in the future. Thus, both Conquest and Battle have to take place on
the
> East Coast not the West.
> It will be interesting to see how MR address this in their next
> series 'Empire on the Planet of the Apes'. I hope it is better than
> Marvel's explaination which I never thought was believable.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "rackworthykomix" <rackworthykomix@>
> wrote:
> >
> > The Alpha Omega bomb is (in the
> > comic) in an underground bunker in San Diego, but then it's (in
> > Beneath) in an undergound church in what was New York.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
> How about an episode where Galen is turned into a Human and Virdon &
> Burke are turned into Apes. LOL
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@> wrote:
> >
> > I was thinking about where the TV Series might have gone had CBS
> shown
> > more faith and one plot twist that popped into my diseased head was
> an
> > episode where Roddy plays a human as well as playing Galen.The
> > potential for fun situations and them meeting would have been, I
> think,
> > wonderful.John, Scrolls
> >
>

>
> At this time, my only problem. Really.
>
> If you think CIRCULAR or ALTERNATIVE, whatever theory you enjoy, I
> still don't EXPLAIN the ORANG/GORILLA costumes in BATTLE. maybe

> up to you.
>
> Premise:
>
> Milo/Caesar's circus costume - inspired by Cornelius and Zira's
> outfits - will become the "source" to design an outfit for all the
> chimps in APE CITY. Fine. This makes sense.
>
> ORANG/GORILLA costumes:
>
> 1- ALTERNATIVE. The only fault of the alternative theory I
> can't "unflub", so far. How could you explain that the APELINE TWO
> costumes are way too similar to the APELINE ONE's counterparts? I
> also don't buy the graphical signs (geroglyphs) the Orangs like
> Virgil and Mandemus present.
> And even the outfit sported by the 'Nice Lawgiver' in 2670 A.C.
> doesn't make sense... Humans and Apes co-existed in harmony, and
> there was no need to "adopt" graphical signs...
>
> 2- CIRCULAR - Same as above. The outfit sported by the 'Nice
> Lawgiver' in 2670 A.C. doesn't really make sense... Humans and Apes
> co-existed in harmony for 600 years, and there was no need
> to "adopt" graphical signs...
>
> Please... it's up to you, I'm going crazy (from an Alternative

> of view)
>
> T.C.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hotscheetz" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:
>
> I, personally, don't have a problem with the duplication of the
> original costumes in BATTLE...Someone had to invent them,
> sometime...And as far as the glyphs go, because the orangutans had
so
> much on their costumes, I always assumed it was a sacred language
of
> their invention...
> What bothered me was how the "equal" children had different
costumes -
> - ape to human...
>
> G
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "apecalypsenow" <apecalypsenow@>
> wrote:
> >
> > At this time, my only problem. Really.
> >
> > If you think CIRCULAR or ALTERNATIVE, whatever theory you enjoy,
I
> > still don't EXPLAIN the ORANG/GORILLA costumes in BATTLE. maybe
> it's
> > up to you.
> >
> > Premise:
> >
> > Milo/Caesar's circus costume - inspired by Cornelius and Zira's
> > outfits - will become the "source" to design an outfit for all
the
> > chimps in APE CITY. Fine. This makes sense.
> >
> > ORANG/GORILLA costumes:
> >
> > 1- ALTERNATIVE. The only fault of the alternative theory I
> > can't "unflub", so far. How could you explain that the APELINE
TWO
> > costumes are way too similar to the APELINE ONE's counterparts?
I
> > also don't buy the graphical signs (geroglyphs) the Orangs like
> > Virgil and Mandemus present.
> > And even the outfit sported by the 'Nice Lawgiver' in 2670 A.C.
> > doesn't make sense... Humans and Apes co-existed in harmony, and
> > there was no need to "adopt" graphical signs...
> >
> > 2- CIRCULAR - Same as above. The outfit sported by the 'Nice
> > Lawgiver' in 2670 A.C. doesn't really make sense... Humans and
Apes
> > co-existed in harmony for 600 years, and there was no need
> > to "adopt" graphical signs...
> >
> > Please... it's up to you, I'm going crazy (from an Alternative
> point
> > of view)
> >
> > T.C.
> >
>

> > where they are geographically other than the notation "North
> America"
> > notation at the start of the film. Most people tended to assume
> that it
> > was California since Escape took place there

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hotscheetz" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:
>
> If I recall correctly, I read something somewhere, years ago,
about
> Fox wanting to make a distinction between the movies and the TV
> series...Thus, since the movies took place on the east coat, they
> wanted the TV series to take place on the west coast...
>
> G
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@> wrote:
> >
> > That is a mistake that is often made, placing Conquest & Battle
on
> the
> > West Coast. Marvel made the same mistake in their timeline as
did
> John
> > Jakes in the novelization. There in no indication in Conquest as
to
> > where they are geographically other than the notation "North
> America"
> > notation at the start of the film. Most people tended to assume
> that it
> > was California since Escape took place there (despite Armando's
> Circus
> > heading to Florida at the end of the film) or because it was
filmed
> in
> > LA and had a California look to it. However, in both Dehn's and
the
> > Corrington's treatments for Battle it is clearly stated that
> Ceasar's
> > Ape City is the same community that Taylor will find some 2,000
> years
> > in the future. Thus, both Conquest and Battle have to take place
on
> the
> > East Coast not the West.
> > It will be interesting to see how MR address this in their next
> > series 'Empire on the Planet of the Apes'. I hope it is better
than
> > Marvel's explaination which I never thought was believable.
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "rackworthykomix"
<rackworthykomix@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > The Alpha Omega bomb is (in the
> > > comic) in an underground bunker in San Diego, but then it's
(in
> > > Beneath) in an undergound church in what was New York.
> >
>

>
> Apesters,
>
> I'm planning to "edit out" the excellent TV series from my APELINE
> ONE timeline. That's what the feeling is really suggesting me.

> if you consider the CIRCULAR theory for the five movies, I would
> prefer to "edit out" the series and make it part of a "separated",
> alternative timeline.
> Now, I need feedback from all the TV series fans. Basically.
>
> My points:
>
> 1- The infamous 2503 N.Y. pic. I found quite "un-realistic" that

> nuclear war happened so late in Taylor's original timeline (the

> not "altered" by Caesar). I guess it happened somewhere in the

> century, when the Apes made the transition from pets to slaves.
>
> Then, even "editing out" the TV series events from the original
> timeline of the movies, there's a doubt... if the series is firmly
> placed in 3085 A.C., then aren't 500 years TOO FEW to make develop
> an Ape culture on the West coast?
>
> 2- What's about the LAWGIVER in the TV series? The Sacred Scrolls?
> The culture of the Apes? The civilization? I found un-realistic
> (again) that the rural humans turned into primitives in the 3085-
> 3978 A.C. arc.
> Can you telle me more about the scenario depicted in the TV

> and SIMILARITIES with the movies?
>
> 3- Recurring names... Galen, Zaius... everything
> screams "ALTERNATIVE DIMENSION!"
>
> Please, help me. What can I do? Edit out? Edit in?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> T.C.
>

>
> What's from an "Alternative theory" point of view (which is what
> interests me and my work!)?
>
> T.C.
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hotscheetz" <HotScheetz@> wrote:
> >
> > I, personally, don't have a problem with the duplication of the
> > original costumes in BATTLE...Someone had to invent them,
> > sometime...And as far as the glyphs go, because the orangutans

> so
> > much on their costumes, I always assumed it was a sacred language
> of
> > their invention...
> > What bothered me was how the "equal" children had different
> costumes -
> > - ape to human...
> >
> > G
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "apecalypsenow" <apecalypsenow@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > At this time, my only problem. Really.
> > >
> > > If you think CIRCULAR or ALTERNATIVE, whatever theory you

> I
> > > still don't EXPLAIN the ORANG/GORILLA costumes in BATTLE. maybe
> > it's
> > > up to you.
> > >
> > > Premise:
> > >
> > > Milo/Caesar's circus costume - inspired by Cornelius and Zira's
> > > outfits - will become the "source" to design an outfit for all
> the
> > > chimps in APE CITY. Fine. This makes sense.
> > >
> > > ORANG/GORILLA costumes:
> > >
> > > 1- ALTERNATIVE. The only fault of the alternative theory I
> > > can't "unflub", so far. How could you explain that the APELINE
> TWO
> > > costumes are way too similar to the APELINE ONE's counterparts?
> I
> > > also don't buy the graphical signs (geroglyphs) the Orangs like
> > > Virgil and Mandemus present.
> > > And even the outfit sported by the 'Nice Lawgiver' in 2670 A.C.
> > > doesn't make sense... Humans and Apes co-existed in harmony,

> > > there was no need to "adopt" graphical signs...
> > >
> > > 2- CIRCULAR - Same as above. The outfit sported by the 'Nice
> > > Lawgiver' in 2670 A.C. doesn't really make sense... Humans and
> Apes
> > > co-existed in harmony for 600 years, and there was no need
> > > to "adopt" graphical signs...
> > >
> > > Please... it's up to you, I'm going crazy (from an Alternative
> > point
> > > of view)
> > >
> > > T.C.
> > >
> >
>

>
> That could be true, since I found slightly un-plausible that a
> parallel civilization developed on the West Coast, branching from
> the East, when there is such geographical barrier in-between.
>
> I don't know... but I'ld like to keep the series as continuity.
>
> T.C.
>
>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hotscheetz" <HotScheetz@> wrote:
> >
> > If I recall correctly, I read something somewhere, years ago,
> about
> > Fox wanting to make a distinction between the movies and the TV
> > series...Thus, since the movies took place on the east coat, they
> > wanted the TV series to take place on the west coast...
> >
> > G
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@> wrote:
> > >
> > > That is a mistake that is often made, placing Conquest & Battle
> on
> > the
> > > West Coast. Marvel made the same mistake in their timeline as
> did
> > John
> > > Jakes in the novelization. There in no indication in Conquest

> to
> > > where they are geographically other than the notation "North
> > America"
> > > notation at the start of the film. Most people tended to assume
> > that it
> > > was California since Escape took place there (despite Armando's
> > Circus
> > > heading to Florida at the end of the film) or because it was
> filmed
> > in
> > > LA and had a California look to it. However, in both Dehn's and
> the
> > > Corrington's treatments for Battle it is clearly stated that
> > Ceasar's
> > > Ape City is the same community that Taylor will find some 2,000
> > years
> > > in the future. Thus, both Conquest and Battle have to take

> on
> > the
> > > East Coast not the West.
> > > It will be interesting to see how MR address this in their next
> > > series 'Empire on the Planet of the Apes'. I hope it is better
> than
> > > Marvel's explaination which I never thought was believable.
> > >
> > > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "rackworthykomix"
> <rackworthykomix@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The Alpha Omega bomb is (in the
> > > > comic) in an underground bunker in San Diego, but then it's
> (in
> > > > Beneath) in an undergound church in what was New York.
> > >
> >
>

>
> In a message dated 9/26/06 7:57:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> apecalypsenow@... writes:
>
>
> > I'm planning to "edit out" the excellent TV series from my

> > ONE timeline. That's what the feeling is really suggesting me.

> > if you consider the CIRCULAR theory for the five movies, I would
> > prefer to "edit out" the series and make it part of

> > alternative timeline.
> >
>
> Edit it OUT! It's a show based on the film series, and not part

>
> -- Rory
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@...> wrote:
>
> Is how SFX magazine describe issue 12 of Simian Scrolls as they award
> it fanzine of the month.
>
> Mark Rogers' 'lost episodes' article is picked out as the highlight
> and mention too is made of the impressive number of interviews
> courtesy of Dean Preston.
>
> Congratulations to all who contributed, work continues on issue 13.
>
> Dave
>

>
> Hi TC,
>
> Check out the www.wikipedia.org
>
> Search for planet of the apes.
>
> There is a tv series timeline based on the series.
>
> I myself have compiled a timeline using the movie/tv series, both
> live and animated.
>
> I have tried to compile a standerd timeline, but it is not that
> difficult.
>
> The real problem is the dates which are not set in stone, although
> some dates are; and the timeline has been built around them.
>
> But keep the tv series timeline it is important.
>
> If you like I can send you me compiled version for your perusal?

> it is not quite finished, although it is close.
>
> Regards.
>
> peter.
>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "apecalypsenow" <apecalypsenow@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Apesters,
> >
> > I'm planning to "edit out" the excellent TV series from my

> > ONE timeline. That's what the feeling is really suggesting me.
> Even
> > if you consider the CIRCULAR theory for the five movies, I would
> > prefer to "edit out" the series and make it part of

> > alternative timeline.
> > Now, I need feedback from all the TV series fans. Basically.
> >
> > My points:
> >
> > 1- The infamous 2503 N.Y. pic. I found quite "un-realistic" that
> the
> > nuclear war happened so late in Taylor's original timeline (the
> one
> > not "altered" by Caesar). I guess it happened somewhere in the
> 22th
> > century, when the Apes made the transition from pets to slaves.
> >
> > Then, even "editing out" the TV series events from the original
> > timeline of the movies, there's a doubt... if the series is

> > placed in 3085 A.C., then aren't 500 years TOO FEW to make

> > an Ape culture on the West coast?
> >
> > 2- What's about the LAWGIVER in the TV series? The Sacred

> > The culture of the Apes? The civilization? I found un-realistic
> > (again) that the rural humans turned into primitives in the 3085-
> > 3978 A.C. arc.
> > Can you telle me more about the scenario depicted in the TV
> series,
> > and SIMILARITIES with the movies?
> >
> > 3- Recurring names... Galen, Zaius... everything
> > screams "ALTERNATIVE DIMENSION!"
> >
> > Please, help me. What can I do? Edit out? Edit in?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> >
> > T.C.
> >
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hotscheetz" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:
>
> No difference...
>
> G
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "apecalypsenow" <apecalypsenow@>
> wrote:
> >
> > What's from an "Alternative theory" point of view (which is what
> > interests me and my work!)?
> >
> > T.C.
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hotscheetz" <HotScheetz@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I, personally, don't have a problem with the duplication of
the
> > > original costumes in BATTLE...Someone had to invent them,
> > > sometime...And as far as the glyphs go, because the orangutans
> had
> > so
> > > much on their costumes, I always assumed it was a sacred
language
> > of
> > > their invention...
> > > What bothered me was how the "equal" children had different
> > costumes -
> > > - ape to human...
> > >
> > > G
> > >
> > > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "apecalypsenow" <apecalypsenow@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > At this time, my only problem. Really.
> > > >
> > > > If you think CIRCULAR or ALTERNATIVE, whatever theory you
> enjoy,
> > I
> > > > still don't EXPLAIN the ORANG/GORILLA costumes in BATTLE.
maybe
> > > it's
> > > > up to you.
> > > >
> > > > Premise:
> > > >
> > > > Milo/Caesar's circus costume - inspired by Cornelius and
Zira's
> > > > outfits - will become the "source" to design an outfit for
all
> > the
> > > > chimps in APE CITY. Fine. This makes sense.
> > > >
> > > > ORANG/GORILLA costumes:
> > > >
> > > > 1- ALTERNATIVE. The only fault of the alternative theory I
> > > > can't "unflub", so far. How could you explain that the
APELINE
> > TWO
> > > > costumes are way too similar to the APELINE ONE's
counterparts?
> > I
> > > > also don't buy the graphical signs (geroglyphs) the Orangs
like
> > > > Virgil and Mandemus present.
> > > > And even the outfit sported by the 'Nice Lawgiver' in 2670
A.C.
> > > > doesn't make sense... Humans and Apes co-existed in harmony,
> and
> > > > there was no need to "adopt" graphical signs...
> > > >
> > > > 2- CIRCULAR - Same as above. The outfit sported by the 'Nice
> > > > Lawgiver' in 2670 A.C. doesn't really make sense... Humans
and
> > Apes
> > > > co-existed in harmony for 600 years, and there was no need
> > > > to "adopt" graphical signs...
> > > >
> > > > Please... it's up to you, I'm going crazy (from an
Alternative
> > > point
> > > > of view)
> > > >
> > > > T.C.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

>
> Okay, I'm pretty sure I'm ready for the war I'm about to create.
> AGAIN...
> Can't we all just move on into OUR OWN TIME???
> Sure, it's easy to ignore the 2001 POTA (and I don't even call
> it a remake anymore).
> It's all fine and dandy to recall the past but if there is no
> one out there with enough balls to carry on then how can we?
> Put down Tim Burton and his attempt.
> It had to have been a fun experience until the execs stepped

> and f*cked up the script...
> But, hey...
> Good, bad, ugly...
> It held it all. Just not in the order "we" wanted...
> I'm sorry, fellas, and gals...
> I saw through the flaws in 2001...
> Maybe I'm a little more open-minded in that perspective...
> Maybe I fell in love with the makeup.
> Not that I will ever forget Cornelius(Oh, how I love him!), or
> Zira (momma)...
> Caesar still owns my heart (Hold me Dearest)...
> But Thade...!
> What a little bastard!
> He owns my soul...
> That SOB deserves a medal just for being so dastardly!
> He's even kind of good lookin' in his own simian way... ;>
>
> I REALLY liked Thade. I thought he deserved a second chance...
> In fact, I wrote a "second chance" in a blog...
> Don't get me wrong; I have not begotten my roots...
> Where do you think it all began?????
>
>
> Love you all,
> Thade's Darling Human
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "johnw_94020" <johnw_94020@...> wrote:
>
> If so please introduce yourself.
>
> I imagine the man who played as President in the 3rd film is in here,
> or else they not be celebrating his B-day.
>
>
> John
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <rkid67@...> wrote:
>
> I played the "old timer" jonesing for the sugar cube in POTA.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "johnw_94020" <johnw_94020@> wrote:
> >
> > If so please introduce yourself.
> >
> > I imagine the man who played as President in the 3rd film is in here,
> > or else they not be celebrating his B-day.
> >
> >
> > John
> >
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "handleyr@..." <handleyr@...> wrote:
>
> How cool -- I played the sugar cube! Wow, it's been years since we worked
> together. How've you been? I'm still as
> sweet as ever.
>
>
>Re: Any Apes actors in here?
> Posted by: "Mark" rkid67@... rkid67
> Date: Fri Sep 29, 2006 4:00 am (PDT)
>
> I played the "old timer" jonesing for the sugar cube in POTA.
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
>

Another week has passed so it must be time for a new LESSON FROM THE LAWGIVER. Thanks to all who contributed.

To see the LESSON click the link on the Yahoo Home Page or use this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm.

Have a great weekend everyone!

>
> In a message dated 9/28/06 1:58:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> thadesdarlinghuman@... writes:
>
>
> > I love your wisdom, but you must admit, the series was a cheap
> > ripoff.
>
> Roddy McDowall himself said it -- the show was "ill-conceived."
>
> -- Rory
>

> "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
> Another week has passed so it must be time for a new LESSON FROM THE LAWGIVER. Thanks to all who contributed. To see the LESSON click the link on the Yahoo Home Page or use this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm> . Have a great weekend everyone!
>

>
>
>
> James:
>
> I don't understand this week's lesson.
>
> At first I thought it was a political statement against the Bush

>
> This is made up, right? I mean, it's not from the films or books

>
> At the end of this week's lesson, the bandits were rounded up and

>
> Are we still talking about a political allegory here?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Gil
>
> > "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
> >
> > Another week has passed so it must be time for a new LESSON

> >
>
> --
> Check out the 9/11 Truth Movement--www.infowars.com, 9/11 Loose

> Not a matter of left vs. right, but right vs. wrong.
> Make your own INFORMED choice.
>

>
>
> In a message dated 9/28/2006 5:06:03 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> thadesdarlinghuman@... writes:
>
> Caesar still owns my heart (Hold me Dearest)...
> But Thade...!
> What a little bastard!
> He owns my soul...
>
>
>
> This certainly seem to confirm the "Chicks Dig Jerks" Theory.
>

>
> I do not recall that scene. Can you elaborate?
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <rkid67@> wrote:
> >
> > I played the "old timer" jonesing for the sugar cube in POTA.
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "johnw_94020" <johnw_94020@> wrote:
> > >
> > > If so please introduce yourself.
> > >
> > > I imagine the man who played as President in the 3rd film is

> > > or else they not be celebrating his B-day.
> > >
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> >
>

----- Original Message -----

From: James

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 2:41 PM

Subject: [POTA] Re: Planet Of The Apes Wallpaper

If you go to the Downloads page of the Group Website:
http://movies. groups.yahoo. com/group/ pota/files/ Misc./Stuff/ Downloads. htm there are a couple of POTA-themed Wallpapers.

--- In pota@yahoogroups. com, robert.mansell@ ... wrote:
>
> I don't know if anyone can help me but there seems to be a lack of
POTA Wallpaper
> online, would love some for my work pc to show my love of the
movies......
>
> Can anyone email me here, there was some great designs for new DVD
covers,
> anyone have anything they could email me to my work email address.
robert@...
>
> If there isn't anyone care to have a go at some ?
>
> Robert Mansell
>
> ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
>
> Tiscali Broadband from 14.99 with free setup!
> http://www.tiscali. co.uk/products/ broadband/
>

>
> Hey all, just thought I'd throw this out there, feel free to tar

> feather me for it.
> Suppose...the 2001 remake didn't happen.
> Who would you cast in the movies?
> Below are my suggestions.
> POTA
> Taylor - Bruce Willis
> Cornelius - David Hyde Pierce
> Zira - Emily Watson
> Dr. Zaius - Brian Cox
>
> BTPOTA
> Brent - Nathan Fillion
> Ursus - Ron Perlman
>
> EFTPOTA
> Hasselien - Hugh Laurie
> Armando - Edward James Olmos
>
> COTPOTA
> Caesar - Christian Bale
> Breck - Treat Williams
>
> BFTPOTA
> Aldo - Adam Baldwin
>
> Feel free to add/subtract to this list.
> (Oh - the reason I think Fillion should play Brent, is I never

> the fact that Brent was basically Diet Taylor. I would have written
> him a bit more unique, maybe kind of a smart ass)
>

>
>
> Also why doesn't the government just suppress the revolt? just go in
> and kill Ceaser really fast?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@...> wrote:
>
> Had a chance to take a quick look at this last night and the picture
> quality, to my untrained eye, seems perfect---really ,really clear
and
> sharp.The 'next episode' previews are good to have as well---don't
know
> how else we could have seen these, and I'd love something similar for
> the live action series.One thing, anybody buying it be careful with
> packing--mine was stuck to the sleeve, which I had to tear to release
> it! John, Scrolls.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> A mention in today's www.filmscoremonthly.com:
>
> RETURN TO THE PLANET OF THE APES (1975, 316 mins., Fox): After Fox
finished
> up their long running sci-fi saga with the so-so "Battle For the
Planet of the
> Apes," the studio tried turning the franchise into a Saturday
morning cartoon
> with "Return to the Planet of the Apes." Despite having produced by
the
> usually reliable DePatie-Freleng group, mostly pedestrian animation
sunk this
> interestingly-plotted series, which ran for 13 episodes in the fall
of 1975 before
> being banished into obscurity -- at least until now. Fox's two-disc
DVD set
> preserves the complete series (with tags for "next week's episode")
in sharp,
> colorful full-screen transfers and mono sound, and fans ought to be
delighted by
> how healthy these rarely-screened shows look.
>
> As I've said, the cartoons look as good as I think they'll ever
look.
>
> -- Rory
>

>
> Apesters,
>
> I'm planning to "edit out" the excellent TV series from my APELINE
> ONE timeline. That's what the feeling is really suggesting me. Even
> if you consider the CIRCULAR theory for the five movies, I would
> prefer to "edit out" the series and make it part of a "separated",
> alternative timeline.
> Now, I need feedback from all the TV series fans. Basically.
>
> My points:
>
> 1- The infamous 2503 N.Y. pic. I found quite "un-realistic" that

> nuclear war happened so late in Taylor's original timeline (the one
> not "altered" by Caesar). I guess it happened somewhere in the 22th
> century, when the Apes made the transition from pets to slaves.
>
> Then, even "editing out" the TV series events from the original
> timeline of the movies, there's a doubt... if the series is firmly
> placed in 3085 A.C., then aren't 500 years TOO FEW to make develop
> an Ape culture on the West coast?
>
> 2- What's about the LAWGIVER in the TV series? The Sacred Scrolls?
> The culture of the Apes? The civilization? I found un-realistic
> (again) that the rural humans turned into primitives in the 3085-
> 3978 A.C. arc.
> Can you telle me more about the scenario depicted in the TV series,
> and SIMILARITIES with the movies?
>
> 3- Recurring names... Galen, Zaius... everything
> screams "ALTERNATIVE DIMENSION!"
>
> Please, help me. What can I do? Edit out? Edit in?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> T.C.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "apecalypsenow" <apecalypsenow@...> wrote:
>
> That could be true, since I found slightly un-plausible that a
> parallel civilization developed on the West Coast, branching from
> the East, when there is such geographical barrier in-between.
>
> I don't know... but I'ld like to keep the series as continuity.
>
> T.C.
>

>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "johnw_94020" <johnw_94020@> wrote:
> >
> > I do not recall that scene. Can you elaborate?
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <rkid67@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I played the "old timer" jonesing for the sugar cube in POTA.
> > >
> > > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "johnw_94020" <johnw_94020@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > If so please introduce yourself.
> > > >
> > > > I imagine the man who played as President in the 3rd film is
> in here,
> > > > or else they not be celebrating his B-day.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > John
> > > >
> > >
> >
> Dr. Zira gave it to him! The guard warned her to stay away but
> she shushed him and gave it to him anyway.
>

>
> At this time, my only problem. Really.
>
> If you think CIRCULAR or ALTERNATIVE, whatever theory you enjoy, I
> still don't EXPLAIN the ORANG/GORILLA costumes in BATTLE. maybe

> up to you.
>
> Premise:
>
> Milo/Caesar's circus costume - inspired by Cornelius and Zira's
> outfits - will become the "source" to design an outfit for all the
> chimps in APE CITY. Fine. This makes sense.
>
> ORANG/GORILLA costumes:
>
> 1- ALTERNATIVE. The only fault of the alternative theory I
> can't "unflub", so far. How could you explain that the APELINE TWO
> costumes are way too similar to the APELINE ONE's counterparts? I
> also don't buy the graphical signs (geroglyphs) the Orangs like
> Virgil and Mandemus present.
> And even the outfit sported by the 'Nice Lawgiver' in 2670 A.C.
> doesn't make sense... Humans and Apes co-existed in harmony, and
> there was no need to "adopt" graphical signs...
>
> 2- CIRCULAR - Same as above. The outfit sported by the 'Nice
> Lawgiver' in 2670 A.C. doesn't really make sense... Humans and Apes
> co-existed in harmony for 600 years, and there was no need
> to "adopt" graphical signs...
>
> Please... it's up to you, I'm going crazy (from an Alternative

> of view)
>
> T.C.
>

>
> My big problem with the remake (if you want to call it that) was the
> script. It lost all the political subtext, humor and suspense of the
> original, replacing it with mindless action and "cute" references to
> the original. The make-up I agree, was amazing. The cast was good
> (my favorite was Paul Giamatti) and the design work was (as is the
> case on all Tim Burton movies) impressive and unique.
> I agree that we should put it behind us, those of us who didn't like
> it. Because, after all, it hasn't affected my enjoyment of the
> original.
>