> Pretty cool Tim. I hadn't seen these before and
> thanks for the nude
> picture alert.Fortunately the Human male didn't turn
> around, but I
> am wondering why the Gorillas are smiling.
> Brendan.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\""
> <apefan23@...> wrote:
> >
> > I won this magazine on ebay.....It is "Bizarre!
> > Mystery Magazine" Vol.1 No. 2 November 1965 and
> > features a new story by Pierre Boulle. Not sure
> how
> > condensed it is.....I see right off the bat Jinn
> and
> > Phyllis are not in it...It says "Complete Short
> Novel"
> > on the cover...Not sure what that means!! It is
> called
> > Planet of the Apes in the mag and there are only
> two
> > illustrations... enclosed here....NAKED people
> > alert!!...which sort of look like the Hungarian
> > drawings...maybe they are! ......someone might
> have
> > shared these before but I hadn't seen them...
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> I won this magazine on ebay.....It is "Bizarre!
> Mystery Magazine" Vol.1 No. 2 November 1965 and
> features a new story by Pierre Boulle. Not sure how
> condensed it is.....I see right off the bat Jinn and
> Phyllis are not in it...It says "Complete Short Novel"
> on the cover...Not sure what that means!! It is called
> Planet of the Apes in the mag and there are only two
> illustrations... enclosed here....NAKED people
> alert!!...which sort of look like the Hungarian
> drawings...maybe they are! ......someone might have
> shared these before but I hadn't seen them...
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
__________

They can be seen by clicking here: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/spnew

Thanks to Tim for sharing them with us.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hotscheetz" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:
>
> I'm not seeing any picture...Are they in the Files section?...
>
> G
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" apefan23@ wrote:
> >
> > I won this magazine on ebay.....It is "Bizarre!
> > Mystery Magazine" Vol.1 No. 2 November 1965 and
> > features a new story by Pierre Boulle. Not sure how
> > condensed it is.....I see right off the bat Jinn and
> > Phyllis are not in it...It says "Complete Short Novel"
> > on the cover...Not sure what that means!! It is called
> > Planet of the Apes in the mag and there are only two
> > illustrations... enclosed here....NAKED people
> > alert!!...which sort of look like the Hungarian

The new LESSON FROM THE LAWGIVER is now available. This is part four in our multi-part LESSON. Thanks to Glen and all who contributed.

To view the LESSON click on the banner on the Yahoo Home page or click this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm.

Visit all the Group's special features including:

• The Internal Website  - Original POTA One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much more.
• POTA Locations  - The places where the POTA films were shot.
• The Art Gallery  - Works of POTA Art by our members.
• The Database Section  - POTA info ranging from Characters to Comics.
• The Photos Section  - POTA pics contributed by members.

Also, be sure to join our sub-groups:

• The POTA Fan Fiction Group  - Fanfic by members.
• The POTA File Archive  - Old files that were too large for the files section here.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
>
> They can be seen by clicking here:
> http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/spnew
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/spnew>
>
> Thanks to Tim for sharing them with us.
>
>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "hotscheetz" <HotScheetz@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not seeing any picture...Are they in the Files section?...
> >
> > G
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" apefan23@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I won this magazine on ebay.....It is "Bizarre!
> > > Mystery Magazine" Vol.1 No. 2 November 1965 and
> > > features a new story by Pierre Boulle. Not sure how
> > > condensed it is.....I see right off the bat Jinn and
> > > Phyllis are not in it...It says "Complete Short Novel"
> > > on the cover...Not sure what that means!! It is called
> > > Planet of the Apes in the mag and there are only two
> > > illustrations... enclosed here....NAKED people
> > > alert!!...which sort of look like the Hungarian
> > > drawings...maybe they are! ......someone might have
> > > shared these before but I hadn't seen them...
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
__________

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@...> wrote:
>
> Reading Boulle's Monkey Planet for the first time in years I noticed
> that the narrative suddenly switches from past to present tense half
> way through chapter 27...
>
> Deliberate or a translation error?
>
>
> CHAPTER TWENTY-SEVEN
>
> I woke early after a restless night. I turned over three or four
times
> in my bed and rubbed my eyes before fully recovering consciousness,
> still unaccustomed to the civilized I life I had been leading for
a
> month, feeling anxious every morning at not hearing the straw creak
> and not feeling Nova's warmth against me.
>
> I eventually came to my senses. I was living in one of the most
> comfortable apartments in the institute. The apes had proved
extremely
> generous. I had a bedroom, a bathroom, clothes, books, a television
> set. I read all the papers, I was free, I could go out, walk about
the
> streets, attend any entertainment. My presence in a public place
still
> provoked considerable interest, but the emotion of the first few
days
> had started to die down.
>
> Cornelius was now the scientific head of the institute. Zaius had
been
> dismissed—he had been given another post, however, and a new
> decoration—and Zira's fianc6 installed in his place. This had
resulted
> in a reorganization of the personnel, a general promotion of the
> chimpanzee element, and renewed activity in every department Zira
had
> become the new director's assistant.
>
> As for me, I took part in the scientist's research work, no longer
as
> a guinea pig but as a collaborator. However, it was only with great
> difficulty and after much hesitation on the part of the Grand
Council
> that Cornelius had been granted this favor. The authorities still
> appeared reluctant to admit my nature and origin.
> I dressed quickly, left my room, and walked over to the wing of the
> institute where I had once been a prisoner: the department under
Zira,
> who was still directing it in addition to her new duties. With
> Cornelius' permission ; I had embarked there on a systematic study
of
> the men.
>
> ***And then...***
>
> Here I am in the room with the cages, walking along the corridor in
> front of the bars like one of the masters of this planet. Shall I
> admit that I come here frequently, more frequently than my duties
> demand? There are times when I feel burdened by constantly simian
> surroundings, and here I find a sort of refuge.
>
> The captives are well acquainted with me now and recognize my
> authority. Do they see any difference between me, Zira, and the
> warders who bring them their food? I should like to think so, but I
> doubt it. For the last month, despite my patience and efforts, I,
too,
> have been unsuccessful in making them achieve any higher level of
> performance than that of well-trained animals. A secret intuition
> tells me, however, that their potentialities are enormous.
>
> I should like to teach them to talk. This is my great ambition. I
have
> not succeeded, I admit. It is only with the utmost difficulty that
> some of them manage to repeat a monosyllabic sound or two, which
> certain chimpanzees on Earth can do. It is not much, but I am
> persevering. What encourages me is the new persistence with which
> their eyes try to meet mine, eyes which for some time have seemed to
> be gradually changing in expression. I fancy I can see in them a
spark
> of curiosity, associated with a superior mentality, breaking through
> the animal mindlessness.
>
> I move slowly around the room, stopping in front of each of the
> captives. I speak to them; I speak to them gently, patiently. They
are
> now accustomed to this unusual behavior on my part. They seem to
> listen. I go on for several minutes, then stop speaking in whole
> sentences and pronounce a few simple words, repeating them over and
> over again, hoping for an echo. One of them clumsily articulates a
> syllable, but this is as far as he will go today. The subject soon
> gets tired, abandons the superhuman task, and lies down on the floor
> as though after some exhausting effort. I sigh and pass on to the
next
> one. I finally come to the cage in which Nova is at present
vegetating
> in solitary sadness. Sadness—this at least is what I, with my
> Earthman's conceit, wish to believe, and I struggle to detect this
> emotion on her beautiful but inexpressive features. Zira has not
given
> her another mate, and I am grateful for that.
>
> Dave
>

On 12/9/06, Chris Lawless <lawford42@...> wrote:

While thinking about the POTA timeline earlier today, I realized
something that I'm not sure has been addressed or not. In REVOLUTION,
Breck says that he "conceived, commissioned, and funded" (or something to
that effect) the Doomsday bomb, which implies that it was built when
Breck was in a position of power. So then, how did Taylor (in BENEATH)
know about it's existence? He would have had to know when he left Earth,
which is almost 20 years prior to CONQUEST/REVOLUTION. Even
conservatively placing Breck at 40/45 years of age during CONQUEST, I
can't see him having that kind of power when he was in his early 20's.

Thoughts, anyone?

Chris L.

> I was just reading on the internet that 5,000
> gorillas have died from the
> ebola virus, not good news. Elaine
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "rberk1382" <rberk1382@...> wrote:
>
> Hello. I am Mort Abrahams niece. I am trying to find out if there
is
> more than one version of Behind the Planet of the Apes. I have a
> recollection of seeing a version on TV that consisted mostly of
> interaction with my uncle. The version I recently viewed on the 35th
> Anniversary DVD seems different. Is it my memory? Or is it
reality?
> I emailed Terry Hoknes with this question and he suggested that I
> contact you all.
>
> By the way, my uncle, now 90, is terrific, and living in the LA
area.
> He is still a voting member of the Motion Picture Academy, and a
sharp
> and vigorous person.
>

>
> Hello. I am Mort Abrahams niece. I am trying to find out if there

> more than one version of Behind the Planet of the Apes. I have a
> recollection of seeing a version on TV that consisted mostly of
> interaction with my uncle. The version I recently viewed on the 35th
> Anniversary DVD seems different. Is it my memory? Or is it

> I emailed Terry Hoknes with this question and he suggested that I
> contact you all.
>
> By the way, my uncle, now 90, is terrific, and living in the LA

> He is still a voting member of the Motion Picture Academy, and a

> and vigorous person.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> I won this magazine on ebay.....It is "Bizarre!
> Mystery Magazine" Vol.1 No. 2 November 1965 and
> features a new story by Pierre Boulle. Not sure how
> condensed it is.....I see right off the bat Jinn and
> Phyllis are not in it...It says "Complete Short Novel"
> on the cover...Not sure what that means!! It is called
> Planet of the Apes in the mag and there are only two
> illustrations... enclosed here....NAKED people
> alert!!...which sort of look like the Hungarian
> drawings...maybe they are! ......someone might have
> shared these before but I hadn't seen them...
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
__________

> Tim, Is there a way you can scan the whole story,
> and post it here?...
>
> G
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\""
> <apefan23@...> wrote:
> >
> > I won this magazine on ebay.....It is "Bizarre!
> > Mystery Magazine" Vol.1 No. 2 November 1965 and
> > features a new story by Pierre Boulle. Not sure
> how
> > condensed it is.....I see right off the bat Jinn
> and
> > Phyllis are not in it...It says "Complete Short
> Novel"
> > on the cover...Not sure what that means!! It is
> called
> > Planet of the Apes in the mag and there are only
> two
> > illustrations... enclosed here....NAKED people
> > alert!!...which sort of look like the Hungarian
> > drawings...maybe they are! ......someone might
> have
> > shared these before but I hadn't seen them...
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@...> wrote:
>
> Upon re-reading the conclusion of Boulle's original Novel I found
> myself wondering how Merou managed to get that bottle, containing his
> message, back into space.
>
> Dave
>

> the lovely James.

>>I believe the DVD version added 10 to 15 minutes to the film that

>>I always felt Breck was bragging a bit, and that he had been

>>While thinking about the POTA timeline earlier today, I

>>The closing sequence with Taylor dying and accidentally detonating

>>The film's themes of a future world where intelligent animals had

>> The Alpha Omega bomb design was inspired by the 7mm Remington

>>A heavily edited version of the film was shown on British

>>The film's themes of a future world where intelligent animals had

Anyone know if this is true or not? I may have to pick up those hardcover reprints if that's the case.<<



Holy cow!  I thought every POTA fan knew about this. 

Yup, Kamandi is "not that loosely" based on Planet of the Apes, and even in the face of such clear cut intellectual theft, the series is a high water mark in the career of the King.  I consider it second only to the Fantastic Four as Jack's best sustained work.  The series was ALL about the world after the Great Disaster, when the cities were destroyed and a great number of different animal species gain the power of speech and reason.  Not just apes  (although gorillas feature PROMINENTLY throughout the series), but tigers, dogs, snakes, bears and cats, become rulers of the Earth, in place of an essentially extinct mankind.  The sub-title for the series was "The Last Boy On Earth".  Think of it more as Planet of the Beasts, and you have the series in a nutshell, with a teenager substituting for Taylor.  There's even a "Nova" character, in the form of a sexy, mute female (topless, but for well placed long hair), who followed Kamandi around for much of the series as the love interest.  As in Planet of the Apes, horses and cows remained domestic animals, which led to many covers featuring tigers and bears on horseback. 

One of my favorite comics of the Seventies, a treat for the imagination.

The first issue's cover eveen featured a half destroyed Statue of Liberty, so neither the publisher, nor the artist was being shy about their attempt to glom onto the success of the Apes film franchise. 


http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=25510&zoom=4

That's a link to the cover for #1.  Here's a link to much info on the series itself, including a cover gallery of every issue cover...check out the CLEAR Planet of the Apes covers on issues # 3, 5, 16, 19

http://www.comics.org/covers.lasso?SeriesID=2028

Hope this helps.

Ty the Guy.  The nexus of things Comics and Apes

>
> In case anyone is interested:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFLuInWfGm0
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iks_CDhkrQ8&mode=related&search=
>
>
> Hunter, I hope this wasn't "borrowed" from you...
>
>
> Chris L.
>

> A few odds & ends I found on both Wikipedia and IMDB:

> >>The closing sequence with Taylor dying and accidentally detonating the
> doomsday bomb was a last minute change made on the day the scene was
> filmed. In the original scripted scene, his detonation of the bomb was
> deliberate. <<

> I always thought it was deliberate, though maybe a little more so in the
> original (final draft) of the shooting script (which was used in Marvel's
> adaptation of BENEATH).

>>Holy cow! I thought every POTA fan knew about this.

>
> >>The film's themes of a future world where intelligent animals had

> to supplant man as the dominant form of life on the planet and a

> that worshiped a nuclear missile were featured in

> "*, a DC Comics <http://wiki/DC_Comics> comic book
> <http://wiki/Comic_book>series created by acclaimed artist Jack
> Kirby <http://wiki/Jack_Kirby>. <<
>
>
> Anyone know if this is true or not? I may have to pick up those

> reprints if that's the case.<<
>
>
>
> Holy cow! I thought every POTA fan knew about this.
>
> Yup, Kamandi is "not that loosely" based on Planet of the Apes, and

> the face of such clear cut intellectual theft, the series is a high

> mark in the career of the King. I consider it second only to the

> Four as Jack's best sustained work. The series was ALL about the

> after the Great Disaster, when the cities were destroyed and a

> of different animal species gain the power of speech and reason.

> apes (although gorillas feature PROMINENTLY throughout the

> tigers, dogs, snakes, bears and cats, become rulers of the Earth,

> of an essentially extinct mankind. The sub-title for the series

> Last Boy On Earth". Think of it more as Planet of the Beasts, and

> the series in a nutshell, with a teenager substituting for Taylor.

> even a "Nova" character, in the form of a sexy, mute female

> for well placed long hair), who followed Kamandi around for much of

> series as the love interest. As in Planet of the Apes, horses and

> remained domestic animals, which led to many covers featuring

> bears on horseback.
>
> One of my favorite comics of the Seventies, a treat for the

>
> The first issue's cover eveen featured a half destroyed Statue of

> so neither the publisher, nor the artist was being shy about their

> to glom onto the success of the Apes film franchise.
>
>
> http://www.comics.org/coverview.lasso?id=25510&zoom=4
>
> That's a link to the cover for #1. Here's a link to much info on

> itself, including a cover gallery of every issue cover...check out

> Planet of the Apes covers on issues # 3, 5, 16, 19
>
> http://www.comics.org/covers.lasso?SeriesID=2028
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Ty the Guy. The nexus of things Comics and Apes
>

>>We're aiming at Feb 2007 and ordering details will appear on this

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Chris Lawless <lawford42@...> wrote:
>
> What was the number of the most recent issue? I'm drawing a complete
> blank right now...
>
>
> Chris L.

>>Chris,I was interested. It has been years since I heard this and I

This week's LESSON FROM THE LAWGIVER is now available. This is the final chapter of the special 5 part LESSON. Thanks to Glen Scheetz and all who contributed.

To view the LESSON click on the banner on the Yahoo Home page or use this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm.

Visit all the Group's special features including:

• The Internal Website  - Original POTA One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much more.
• POTA Locations  - The places where the POTA films were shot.
• The Art Gallery  - Works of POTA Art by our members.
• The Database Section  - POTA info ranging from Characters to Comics.
• The Photos Section  - POTA pics contributed by members.

Also, be sure to join our sub-groups:

• The POTA Fan Fiction Group  - Fanfic by members.
• The POTA File Archive  - Old files that were too large for the files section here.

>>Kirby was, and is, King, no doubt about it.He actually did some

Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

>>Just my wild imagination here. I was talking to a woman yesterday

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Chris Lawless <lawford42@...> wrote:
>
> There really weren't any domesticated animals that I remember, save
for
> the dog in the TV series. Wonder if that was intentional or not,
and if
> so, was it a statement being made about how one animal species
would or
> wouldn't treat another?
>
>
> Chris L.
>
>
>
> "David Giwner" < bikergator25@... >
>
> >>Just my wild imagination here. I was talking to a woman yesterday
who
> had 2 talking parrots.
> I was thinking why werent there any parrots on POTA?
> I would have loved to see a Gorillas face when he heard a parrot
> talk.......
> Imagine Brent's facial expression when Cornelious told him not to
speak
> to the Gorrilas....
> Classic..... <<
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Glen" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:
>
> Horses and cows, too...
>
> G
>

>
> There really weren't any domesticated animals that I remember, save

> the dog in the TV series. Wonder if that was intentional or not,

> so, was it a statement being made about how one animal species

> wouldn't treat another?
>
>
> Chris L.
>
>
>
> "David Giwner" < bikergator25@... >
>
> >>Just my wild imagination here. I was talking to a woman yesterday

> had 2 talking parrots.
> I was thinking why werent there any parrots on POTA?
> I would have loved to see a Gorillas face when he heard a parrot
> talk.......
> Imagine Brent's facial expression when Cornelious told him not to

> to the Gorrilas....
> Classic..... <<
>

When Zira first speaks to the Inquest during 'Escape' her simple
answers are compared to those of a Parrot. Her response 'A PARROT!"
seems quite indignant from which I assume she knows what a parrot is
and is offended by being compared to one...

One could also argue that her response is merely one of confusion ("A
Parrot?")

Is this line in the script?

Dave

Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Young Cornelius had Ricky, his pet squirrel.John, Scrolls.
>
> There really weren't any domesticated animals that I remember, save
for
> the dog in the TV series. Wonder if that was intentional or not,
and if
> so, was it a statement being made about how one animal species
would or
> wouldn't treat another?
>
>
> Chris L.
>
>
>
> "David Giwner" < bikergator25@ ... >
>
> >>Just my wild imagination here. I was talking to a woman yesterday
who
> had 2 talking parrots.
> I was thinking why werent there any parrots on POTA?
> I would have loved to see a Gorillas face when he heard a parrot
> talk.......
> Imagine Brent's facial expression when Cornelious told him not to
speak
> to the Gorrilas....
> Classic..... <<
>

Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

>
> Dave, you are so right,. I forgot about that scene.
> Dave-NYC...
>
> Dave B <smugster2000@...> wrote:
> When Zira first speaks to the Inquest during 'Escape'

> answers are compared to those of a Parrot. Her response 'A PARROT!"
> seems quite indignant from which I assume she knows what a parrot

> and is offended by being compared to one...
>
> One could also argue that her response is merely one of confusion

> Parrot?")
>
> Is this line in the script?
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
>
>

In a message dated 12/17/2006 5:38:11 P.M. Central Standard Time, lawford42@juno. com writes:

There really weren't any domesticated animals that I remember

 

And yet when Zira is compared to a parrot

she seems to know what they're talking about.

 

Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <p3murds@...> wrote:
>
> My name is Paul, and I live in the Seattle area (from Detroit). I am
> 43 years old, remember watching the firt POTA movie when it came
out.
> I was a kid watching it from the back seat with my parents watching
> from the front seat. It was amazing for me at the time.
>
> Today, I am still in love with watching these Apes videos. I also
have
> a bunch of figures as well.
>
> Does anyone enjoy watching the POTA cartoons as much as I do?
>
> I want to get some of the comics next, and the series even though it
> wasn't that good.
>
> Very respectfully, Paul
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, p3murds@... wrote:
>
> The goatley site is great! Thanks! ~Paul
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <p3murds@...> wrote:
>
> Have any of you seen this site? Is the Ape-City.com website out of
> commision? I enjoyed it the first time I seen it, But had an email
> rejected when I sent it to the webmaster. Does this person frequent
> this board? I guess his name is Andrew Parmet (according to the
> website). Still, even though no updates, it is entertaining.
>
> ~Paul
>

First, welcome to the group Jon.

In answer to your question, the classic films or the TV series never covered this subject. It would have been an interesting topic for the TV series to explore. Since that society was a caste system with each species having an assigned role, I would imagine that extra-species relationships were frowned upon.

In the remake, we do see an elderly orangutan married to a Chimp trophy wife. So in that society interspecies marrige was acceptable. Or maybe they weren't married and it was just a civil union;-) 

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <phil_harmonik2005@...> wrote:
>
>
> My question to any interested members here is;
> How much of a problem do you think this is in the
> mixed Ape society that we have come to know so well,
> with many questions... not answered, and likely not
> forthcoming? How often do you think such things
> occur? And perhaps, is hybridization actually even
> possible betwen any of the three, or do they naturally
> remain 'pure', in the same sense that cats and dogs
> cannot interbreed?
>
> I'll be very interested in hearing your feedback
> on this matter. Thankyou :-)
>
> Jon Rich
>

>
>
> First, welcome to the group Jon.
>
> In answer to your question, the classic films or the TV series never
> covered this subject. It would have been an interesting topic for

> series to explore. Since that society was a caste system with each
> species having an assigned role, I would imagine that extra-species
> relationships were frowned upon.
>
> In the remake, we do see an elderly orangutan married to a Chimp

> wife. So in that society interspecies marrige was acceptable. Or

> they weren't married and it was just a civil union;-)
>
>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <phil_harmonik2005@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > My question to any interested members here is;
> > How much of a problem do you think this is in the
> > mixed Ape society that we have come to know so well,
> > with many questions... not answered, and likely not
> > forthcoming? How often do you think such things
> > occur? And perhaps, is hybridization actually even
> > possible betwen any of the three, or do they naturally
> > remain 'pure', in the same sense that cats and dogs
> > cannot interbreed?
> >
> > I'll be very interested in hearing your feedback
> > on this matter. Thankyou :-)
> >
> > Jon Rich
> >
>

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <phil_harmonik2005@> wrote:
> >
> > My question to any interested members here is;
> > How much of a problem do you think this is in the
> > mixed Ape society that we have come to know so well,
> > with many questions... not answered, and likely not
> > forthcoming? How often do you think such things
> > occur? And perhaps, is hybridization actually even
> > possible betwen any of the three, or do they naturally
> > remain 'pure', in the same sense that cats and dogs
> > cannot interbreed?
> >
> > I'll be very interested in hearing your feedback
> > on this matter. Thankyou :-)
> >
> > Jon Rich

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
> First, welcome to the group Jon.

Thankyou :-)

> In answer to your question, the classic films or
> the TV series never covered this subject.

Indeed it didn't. And the TV series in parti-
cular would have been a marvelous forum to explore
it, since it had many more opportunities to do so
that the cinema films didn't.

The concept of 'forbidden relationships' or
'forbidden love' in storylines goes back before
even Romeo and Juliette- where warring families
are the center of the forbidden love of the young
couple, and for more modern times, and prior to
the POTA TV series, TV shows like Star Trek ex-
plored prejudice deeply [Let That Be Your Last
Battlefield] and for TV defined the first inter-
racial kiss [Plato's Stepchildren]. And since
POTA-TV came somewhat later tha trek, I'm surprised
that the writers weren't brave enough to explore
the issue.

> It would have been an interesting topic for the
> TV series to explore. Since that society was a
> caste system with each species having an assigned
> role, I would imagine that extra-species relation-
> ships were frowned upon.

I think... that the problem was actually more
centered on limits placed by the producers of the
TV version. They didn't want to risk allegations
or accusations of 'bestiality' in 'any' form. They
took note, likely, of Taylor's kissing of Zira, as
some fededback told that some people felt that that
was such- so it was something of a real issue with
some people. The producers of the TV version wan-
ted to avoid the issue in any context. They had
advertisers they didn't want to offend. As usual-
it again boils down to 'money', tempered by the
moral standards of the time.

And interesting... considering that in these more
recent times, TV shows like 'Hercules' quite often
touched upon interspecies relationships, and... in-
terbreeding, rooted in the actual Ancient greek
myths. Good to see that times have changed :-)
The subject is approached now in a more adult con-
text now, and truer to the real history of the
mythology.

> In the remake, we do see an elderly orangutan mar-
> ried to a Chimp trophy wife. So in that society
> interspecies marrige was acceptable. Or maybe they
> weren't married and it was just a civil union;-)

I noted that too, though the Tim Burton film never
addresed that situation. However, it does indeed ap-
pear that in his version, such relationships weren't
frowned upon, as it was taking place right in front of
their highest leaders right there at the dinner table!
One can presume that such was allowed in TB's version
of Ape culture, at least in 'his' interpretation of it.
But then again... he made many such 'adjustments'. It's
not really the same culture. It's... a very different
Ape planet. But then again, there's a lot of odd things
about that film.

Anyway... on the subject of miscegenation, I per-
sonally think that the Ape culture would have similar
problems dealing with it that many societies do in
our world of today, and even... in free America, as
the subject of racial and societal intermixing is still
a deep issue with many people... unfortunately.

The Ape movies, I can see, from the perspective of
the Apes, defined Humans as 'one people'. Just... 'the
Humans'. The Apes then become a parody of us... and
our differences, the barriers we put up or still main-
tain, the Humans becoming mindless innocents in the jungle
while the Apes with their prejudices and corruptions re-
flect... what Humans 'once' were. Or... still are...
in the form of the underground Mutants. POTA as a form
of commentary on our society it obvious, and hard to deny.
The worst of what were are is defined... in them. And it
can be hard... to look into that mirror...

~ Jon Rich

>
> And in the novels of the animated series, one of
> the gorillas is derided for having a chimp grand-
> parent. John, Scrolls.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
> The site is still up and working. It hasn't been updated though.
Andrew
> is a member here but has been quiet recently.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <p3murds@> wrote:
> >
> > Have any of you seen this site? Is the Ape-City.com website out of
> > commision? I enjoyed it the first time I seen it, But had an email
> > rejected when I sent it to the webmaster. Does this person
frequent
> > this board? I guess his name is Andrew Parmet (according to the
> > website). Still, even though no updates, it is entertaining.
> >
> > ~Paul
> >
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
> The site is still up and working. It hasn't been updated though.
Andrew
> is a member here but has been quiet recently.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <p3murds@> wrote:
> >
> > Have any of you seen this site? Is the Ape-City.com website out of
> > commision? I enjoyed it the first time I seen it, But had an email
> > rejected when I sent it to the webmaster. Does this person
frequent
> > this board? I guess his name is Andrew Parmet (according to the
> > website). Still, even though no updates, it is entertaining.
> >
> > ~Paul
> >
>

>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@> wrote:
> >
> > And in the novels of the animated series, one of
> > the gorillas is derided for having a chimp grand-
> > parent. John, Scrolls.
>
> Well... if the animated series for POTA is accepted
> as Ape 'canon', and the novels too, then it tells that
> the Apes, especially the Gorillas and Chimps, can in-
> deed interbreed.

>
> Taylor's spaceship is only seen partially submerged in the original
> PLANET OF THE APES. But I've stumbled upon an image that shows the
> full-size exterior mock-up out of the water as it was in 1967; it's
> grainy and small, but possibly of use to model makers. This is the
> version of the ship sometimes referred to as "Icarus" or the ANSA
> starship before it was modified for BENEATH or ESCAPE. The little
> image, and details about it, are in my blog:
>
> http://sfwriter.com/2006/12/bottom-of-taylors-starship-revealed.html"
>
> All best wishes.
>
> Rob
>
>
> ----------------
> ROBERT J. SAWYER, Science Fiction Writer
>
> Hugo Award winner for HOMINIDS
> Nebula Award winner for THE TERMINAL EXPERIMENT
> John W. Campbell Memorial Award winner for MINDSCAN
>
> http://www.sfwriter.com * sawyer@...
> ----------------
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Glen" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Rob...Great find...Too bad there isn't a clearer shot
> somewhere...
>
> G
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Robert J. Sawyer" <robertjsawyer@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Taylor's spaceship is only seen partially submerged in the
original
> > PLANET OF THE APES. But I've stumbled upon an image that shows
the
> > full-size exterior mock-up out of the water as it was in 1967;
it's
> > grainy and small, but possibly of use to model makers. This is
the
> > version of the ship sometimes referred to as "Icarus" or the ANSA
> > starship before it was modified for BENEATH or ESCAPE. The little
> > image, and details about it, are in my blog:
> >
> > http://sfwriter.com/2006/12/bottom-of-taylors-starship-
revealed.htmlbr> > >
> > All best wishes.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> > ----------------
> > ROBERT J. SAWYER, Science Fiction Writer
> >
> > Hugo Award winner for HOMINIDS
> > Nebula Award winner for THE TERMINAL EXPERIMENT
> > John W. Campbell Memorial Award winner for MINDSCAN
> >
> > http://www.sfwriter.com * sawyer@
> > ----------------
> >
>

>
> > > And in the novels of the animated series,
> > > one of the gorillas is derided for having
> > > a chimp grandparent. John, Scrolls.
> >
> > Well... if the animated series for POTA is
> > accepted as Ape 'canon', and the novels too,
> > then it tells that the Apes, especially the
> > Gorillas and Chimps, can indeed interbreed.
>
> Are we to understand that since there are no
> examples of interbreeding with Orangutangs that
> even in Ape Society there is prejudice against
> people with Ginger Hair!!!! Well, it seems that
> Apes are no better than Humans afterall.
> Brendan ;- )

>
> Taylor's spaceship is only seen partially submerged in the original
> PLANET OF THE APES. But I've stumbled upon an image that shows the
> full-size exterior mock-up out of the water as it was in 1967; it's
> grainy and small, but possibly of use to model makers. This is the
> version of the ship sometimes referred to as "Icarus" or the ANSA
> starship before it was modified for BENEATH or ESCAPE. The little
> image, and details about it, are in my blog:
>
> http://sfwriter.com/2006/12/bottom-of-taylors-starship-revealed.html"
>
> All best wishes.
>
> Rob
>
>
> ----------------
> ROBERT J. SAWYER, Science Fiction Writer
>
> Hugo Award winner for HOMINIDS
> Nebula Award winner for THE TERMINAL EXPERIMENT
> John W. Campbell Memorial Award winner for MINDSCAN
>
> http://www.sfwriter.com * sawyer@...
> ----------------
>

Happy Holidays everyone! To celebrate the holidays we're repeating a special LESSON FROM THE LAWGIVER from last year. Thanks to Elaine, Glen, Dave and all who contributed.

To view the LESSON click on the banner on the Yahoo Home page or use this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm.

Visit all the Group's special features including:

• The Internal Website  - Original POTA One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much more.
• POTA Locations  - The places where the POTA films were shot.
• The Art Gallery  - Works of POTA Art by our members.
• The Database Section  - POTA info ranging from Characters to Comics.
• The Photos Section  - POTA pics contributed by members.

Also, be sure to join our sub-groups:

• The POTA Fan Fiction Group  - Fanfic by members.
• The POTA File Archive  - Old files that were too large for the files section here.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Reminder from: pota Yahoo! Group
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/cal
>
> Estella Warren's Birthday
> Saturday December 23, 2006
> All Day
> (This event repeats every year.)
>
> Notes:
> Thank you God!
>
>
> All Rights Reserved
> Copyright © 2006
> Yahoo! Inc.
> http://www.yahoo.com
>
> Privacy Policy:
> http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us
>
> Terms of Service:
>
>

>
> Taylor's spaceship is only seen partially submerged in the original
> PLANET OF THE APES. But I've stumbled upon an image that shows the
> full-size exterior mock-up out of the water as it was in 1967; it's
> grainy and small, but possibly of use to model makers. This is the
> version of the ship sometimes referred to as "Icarus" or the ANSA
> starship before it was modified for BENEATH or ESCAPE. The little
> image, and details about it, are in my blog:
>
> http://sfwriter.com/2006/12/bottom-of-taylors-starship-

>
> All best wishes.
>
> Rob
>
>
> ----------------
> ROBERT J. SAWYER, Science Fiction Writer
>
> Hugo Award winner for HOMINIDS
> Nebula Award winner for THE TERMINAL EXPERIMENT
> John W. Campbell Memorial Award winner for MINDSCAN
>
> http://www.sfwriter.com * sawyer@...
> ----------------
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <p3murds@...> wrote:
>
> She is a beauty, that is for sure! Wish I could be at her birthday
> party!
>
> ~Paul Wright
>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> > Reminder from: pota Yahoo! Group
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/cal
> >
> > Estella Warren's Birthday
> > Saturday December 23, 2006
> > All Day
> > (This event repeats every year.)
> >
> > Notes:
> > Thank you God!
> >
> >
> > All Rights Reserved
> > Copyright © 2006
> > Yahoo! Inc.
> > http://www.yahoo.com
> >
> > Privacy Policy:
> > http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us
> >
> > Terms of Service:
> >
> >
>

Hi, everyone,

I just wanted to wish you all a very happy holiday season!

Rich

Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

>>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "brendan486" <nzape@...> wrote:
>
> For years I sold your novels through my old business and only had a
> chance to read Illegal Alien.
> I will now read the rest.
> Had I known you were an Ape fan I would have forced every customer
> to buy one.
> Thank you for the Taylor ship photo.
> Brendan.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Robert J. Sawyer" <robertjsawyer@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Taylor's spaceship is only seen partially submerged in the original
> > PLANET OF THE APES. But I've stumbled upon an image that shows the
> > full-size exterior mock-up out of the water as it was in 1967; it's
> > grainy and small, but possibly of use to model makers. This is the
> > version of the ship sometimes referred to as "Icarus" or the ANSA
> > starship before it was modified for BENEATH or ESCAPE. The little
> > image, and details about it, are in my blog:
> >
> > http://sfwriter.com/2006/12/bottom-of-taylors-starship-
> revealed.htmlbr> > >
> > All best wishes.
> >
> > Rob
> >
> >
> > ----------------
> > ROBERT J. SAWYER, Science Fiction Writer
> >
> > Hugo Award winner for HOMINIDS
> > Nebula Award winner for THE TERMINAL EXPERIMENT
> > John W. Campbell Memorial Award winner for MINDSCAN
> >
> > http://www.sfwriter.com * sawyer@
> > ----------------
> >
>

>
> Taylor's spaceship is only seen partially submerged
> in the original PLANET OF THE APES. But I've stum-
> bled upon an image that shows the full-size exterior
> mock-up out of the water as it was in 1967; it's
> grainy and small, but possibly of use to model makers.
> This is the version of the ship sometimes referred to
> as "Icarus" or the ANSA starship before it was modified
> for BENEATH or ESCAPE. The little image, and details
> about it, are in my blog:
>
> http://sfwriter.com/2006/12/bottom-of-taylors-starship-revealed.html"
>
> All best wishes.
>
> Rob

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "theskulpter" <theskulpter@...> wrote:
>
> HI Ape gang. I just finished a new head sculpt of General Urko last
> week,figured I would share some pics, so I added some new photos of
it
> in the photo section, I will add more when I finish the helmet after
> the Holidays. Ok Hope all have a great Holiday, The Farrow.
>

Jon wrote, referring to the salvaging and relaunch of Taylor's ship,
"It... boggles the mind."

But you bought the part about the talking apes, right? ;)

Really, it's fun to speculate, and there are many possibilities.

For instance, Cornelius, Zira, and Milo are in the Forbidden Zone on
an archeological dig. The Alpha-Omega bomb goes off some distance
away, causes an earthquake that drains the lake, revealing the ship.

As conditions get worse and worse in the chain reaction following the
detonation of the bomb, they crawl into the ship for shelter, and Milo
hits the launch button, and -- the rest is history. (The ship had to
be at least partially automated, since it was designed to operate for
many months without intervention while the crew was in hibernation,
and we know it launched just before the chain-reaction got out of
control, since Zira describes it as seen from space in ESCAPE.)

Or the ship propels itself up onto dry land after having sunk, after
something -- an electrical short, maybe -- causes its main engines to
briefly fire, pushing it up on shore, where it's found by apes; again,
automation to the rescue; they activate the computerized launch
sequence, and we're off to 1973.

We know the ship wasn't designed to come down in water (that's said in
dialog in POTA), and we know from BENEATH that its sister ship had
tripodal landing gear (the gear seen in the wreckage is actually the
landing gear from the full-size mockup of the Jupiter 2 from LOST IN
SPACE). So, again, once it's ashore, the apes might have used
block-and-tackle (just as they do with the Alpha-Omega bomb) to raise
it onto its landing gear, and they get in and fire the main engine.

Remember, the flight isn't necessarily anything more than the ship
going up and coming down (with the pesky business of a Hasslein-curve
timewarp in between, but that's caused by the bomb, rather than by
anything Milo does), so it's hardly as though they have to learn how
to pilot it (and it obviously aborts its flight improperly, again
coming down in water, which, as was said, it wasn't designed to do,
although presumably at some point the ship's computer dumped the lower
stage with the landing gear, leaving only the re-entry capsule with
the heat-shield intact, as seen in ESCAPE).

Or, how 'bout this: Landon's lobotomy isn't as bad as Taylor assumed.
Although he's been rendered docile and mute (or maybe is just
refusing to speak in front of the apes, having seen what happened to
Dodge), Landon leads Milo to the site of the sunken ship. A lot of
debris has floated out of the ship (the hatch was blown, after all),
including a spacesuit with air tanks. Landon uses the spacesuit as a
diving suit, dives down to the sunken ship, and manages to inflate the
ship's emergency flotation collar (included in the unlikely event of
an unplanned water landing), bringing the ship to the surface.

You want to go really far out? There's the underexplored notion of
psychic connections between apes in the film series: the apes' IQs
are rising spontaneously and en masse BEFORE THE ADVENT OF CAESAR in
CONQUEST, and Caesar himself says he can possibly communicate with
apes on the five continents without actually talking to them, and he
also seems to have a connection ACROSS TIME to his statue 600 years in
the future (which cries at the end of BATTLE). So maybe Milo is
channeling Virgil, the orangutan Einstein from BATTLE, and has all the
knowledge he needs about Taylor's spaceship (the plans for which
MacDonald's brother might have quietly taken with him from the
Archives Section, where he used to work).

Or ... well, make up your own scenario. To me, it's a lot more fun to
imagine possible solutions than to reject the notion out of hand. For
my money, Paul Dehn was a genius in thinking of having apes salvage
Taylor's ship.

Happy Holidays!

Rob

------------ ----
ROBERT J. SAWYER, Science Fiction Writer

Hugo Award winner for HOMINIDS
Nebula Award winner for THE TERMINAL EXPERIMENT
John W. Campbell Memorial Award winner for MINDSCAN

http://www.sfwriter .com * sawyer@sfwriter. com
------------ ----

Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

>
> Jon wrote, referring to the salvaging and relaunch
> of Taylor's ship, "It... boggles the mind."
>
> But you bought the part about the talking apes,
> right? ;)

> Really, it's fun to speculate, and there are many
> possibilities.

> For instance, Cornelius, Zira, and Milo are
> in the Forbidden Zone on an archeological
> dig. The Alpha-Omega bomb goes off some dis-
> tance away, causes an earthquake that drains
> the lake, revealing the ship. As conditions
> get worse and worse in the chain reaction
> following the detonation of the bomb, they
> crawl into the ship for shelter, and Milo
> hits the launch button, and -- the rest is
> history. (The ship had to be at least par-
> tially automated, since it was designed to
> operate for many months without intervention
> while the crew was in hibernation, and we know
> it launched just before the chain-reaction got
> out of control, since Zira describes it as seen
> from space in ESCAPE.)

> Or the ship propels itself up onto dry land
> after having sunk, after something -- an
> electrical short, maybe -- causes its main
> engines to briefly fire, pushing it up on
> shore, where it's found by apes; again, auto-
> mation to the rescue; they activate the com-
> puterized launch sequence, and we're off to 1973.

> We know the ship wasn't designed to come down
> in water (that's said in dialog in POTA), and
> we know from BENEATH that its sister ship had
> tripodal landing gear (the gear seen in the
> wreckage is actually the landing gear from the
> full-size mockup of the Jupiter 2 from LOST IN
> SPACE). So, again, once it's ashore, the apes
> might have used block-and-tackle (just as they
> do with the Alpha-Omega bomb) to raise it onto
> its landing gear, and they get in and fire the
> main engine.

> Remember, the flight isn't necessarily anything
> more than the ship going up and coming down
> (with the pesky business of a Hasslein-curve
> timewarp in between, but that's caused by the
> bomb, rather than by anything Milo does), so
> it's hardly as though they have to learn how
> to pilot it (and it obviously aborts its flight
> improperly, again coming down in water, which,
> as was said, it wasn't designed to do, although
> presumably at some point the ship's computer
> dumped the lower stage with the landing gear,
> leaving only the re-entry capsule with the heat-
> shield intact, as seen in ESCAPE).

> Or, how 'bout this: Landon's lobotomy isn't as
> bad as Taylor assumed. Although he's been ren-
> dered docile and mute (or maybe is just refusing
> to speak in front of the apes, having seen what
> happened to Dodge), Landon leads Milo to the site
> of the sunken ship. A lot of debris has floated
> out of the ship (the hatch was blown, after all),
> including a spacesuit with air tanks. Landon uses
> the spacesuit as a diving suit, dives down to the
> sunken ship, and manages to inflate the ship's
> emergency flotation collar (included in the unlike-
> ly event of an unplanned water landing), bringing
> the ship to the surface.

> You want to go really far out? There's the under-
> explored notion of psychic connections between apes
> in the film series: the apes' IQs are rising spon-
> taneously and en masse BEFORE THE ADVENT OF CAESAR
> in CONQUEST, and Caesar himself says he can possibly
> communicate with apes on the five continents without
> actually talking to them, and he also seems to have
> a connection ACROSS TIME to his statue 600 years in
> the future (which cries at the end of BATTLE). So
> maybe Milo is channeling Virgil, the orangutan Ein-
> stein from BATTLE, and has all the knowledge he needs
> about Taylor's spaceship (the plans for which MacDo-
> nald's brother might have quietly taken with him from
> the Archives Section, where he used to work).

> Or ... well, make up your own scenario. To me,
> it's a lot more fun to imagine possible solutions
> than to reject the notion out of hand. For my
> money, Paul Dehn was a genius in thinking of hav-
> ing apes salvage Taylor's ship.

> Happy Holidays!

> Rob

>
> HI Ape gang. I just finished a new head sculpt of
> General Urko last week,figured I would share some
> pics, so I added some new photos of it in the pho-
> to section, I will add more when I finish the hel-
> met after the Holidays. Ok Hope all have a great
> Holiday, The Farrow.

>
> Just wanted to add my Happy Holidays to all the
> group and I love this constant discussion about
> things that I never thought of - what a great
> bunch of intelligent ape loving people !

>
> Hi, Jon.

> Well, neither of us knows anything about how
> the Alpha-Omega bomb does its business, but,
> as you say, we have Zira's testimony that it
> "melted" the rim of the earth, plausibly im-
> plying that its destructive mechanism isn't
> one we're familiar with. :)

> So it might have been a slow-acting or multi-step
> process that could have allowed earthquakes, etc.,

> prior to actually destroying the planet. It's
> plausible that Taylor's ship wasn't at point-blank
> range to the Mutant Cathedral ("ground zero"); after
> all, Taylor and Nova were heading AWAY from where
> he'd been before, not back to where the ship had
> come down.

> And your discussion of the difficulty of moving
> a jug full of water through air is missing a
> hugely key point: you're forgetting that the
> ship full of water (or partially full of; we
> don't know which) is surrounded BY water --
> right up until the very end, when it comes out
> of it onto shore.

> Most living tissue has about the same density
> as water, and moving it through water can be
> done with no more energy than is provided by
> a Big Mac and a large order of fries: we call
> it swimming. :)

> And very large entities, on the order of the size
> of the part of Taylor's ship we saw, that have
> densities equal to water also move through it
> easily, with little energy; think of giant squids.

> Plus, of course, the engines on Taylor's ship
> aren't mere rockets; rather, they're engines
> capable of interstellar travel -- his was a
> starship, remember. An engine that can propel
> a ship from Sol to a star in the constellation
> of Orion (where Taylor thought they were going)
> can surely push it up onto shore.