>
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2007 3:36:16 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> john@... writes:
>
> I agree totally with Kass--it's deplorable to
> just see women as sex objects.
>
> What about seeing sex objects as women?

>
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2007 2:04:02 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> phil_harmonik2005@... writes:
>
> And if you're interested in seeing some of my
> artwork, I have some pages on VCL.
>
>
>
> Oh . . . It's Pentaclese.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <phil_harmonik2005@...> wrote:
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/5/2007 3:36:16 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> > john@ writes:
> >
> > I agree totally with Kass--it's deplorable to
> > just see women as sex objects.
> >
> > What about seeing sex objects as women?
>
> That would be... shapely, sexy, androids, I think :-)
>
> ~ Jon
>

> > > I agree totally with Kass--it's deplorable to
> > > just see women as sex objects.
> > >
> > > What about seeing sex objects as women?
> >
> > That would be... shapely, sexy, androids, I think :-)
> >
> > ~ Jon

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Glen" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:
>
> I repeat -- can you say "Stepford"?...=)
>
> G

I can. Stepford- indeed.

~ Jon

>
>
> In a message dated 1/7/2007 12:34:40 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> phil_harmonik2005@... writes:
>
> where was Stewart's portion or load??? And would not
> the fellas have taken hers with them also? What was
> 'she' expected to carry- that was not taken along,
> which would have aided them in their survival?

> It was full of perfume, makeup and shoes.

>
> >In a message dated 1/7/2007 12:46:41 A.M. Central Standard Time,

> >
> > People can and do live without sexual relationships.
>
> Yeah, they're called Losers.

>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@ wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/7/2007 12:34:40 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> > phil_harmonik2005@ writes:
> >
> > where was Stewart's portion or load??? And would not
> > the fellas have taken hers with them also? What was
> > 'she' expected to carry- that was not taken along,
> > which would have aided them in their survival?
>
> ----------
>
> > It was full of perfume, makeup and shoes.
>
> ----------
>
> Oh... now that was a naughty and cheuvanistic
> thing to say :-/ Funny... but very cheuvanistic :-]
>
> ~ Jon
>

>
> In a message dated 1/8/2007 5:32:33 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> john@... writes:
>
>
> > Uncle Santa gave me the cd of 'Fantastic Voyage' by Leonard

> > and it's an amazing blend of Battle and Beneath, really

> > had not really thought about the name of the ship in that movie

> > but it's 'Proteus'.As Fantastic Voyage(1966) is often credited as

> > the movie that opened the door for other sci fi films,

> > Apes, I wonder is the Sacred Scrolls guy who chained the Man in

> > garden to make sport of him a little nod by the authors to

> > Voyage, and its impact? John, Scrolls.
> >
>
> How's that line from PLANET a nod to the author's of FV?
>
> By the way, most Leonard Rosenman sounds like BENEATH and BATTLE.

> was no Jerry Goldsmith.
>
> -- Rory
>

>
> I'm not talking about to authors of FV, I wondered if it's a nod TO
> FV by the authors of Apes---using the name 'Proteus'in the Sacred
> Scrolls, or have I mis-remembered that? John Scrolls.

>
> To deny one's normal sexual nature and drives, is
> to force a sheer violation against the laws of nature.
> My view.
>
> ~ Jon
>

>
> ++And to deny that instincts can be at least partially controlled is

> sacrifice choice, lay blame, deny responsibility. And that's my

> Kass
>
>
>
> >
> > To deny one's normal sexual nature and drives, is
> > to force a sheer violation against the laws of nature.
> > My view.
> >
> > ~ Jon
> >
>

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@... wrote:
> >
> > >In a message dated 1/7/2007 12:46:41 A.M. Central
> Standard Time,
> valwp@... writes:
> > >
> > > People can and do live without sexual
> relationships.
> >
> > Yeah, they're called Losers.
>
> I'll second that!!! Agreed :-)
>
> To deny one's normal sexual nature and drives, is
> to force a sheer violation against the laws of
> nature.
> My view.
>
> ~ Jon
>
>

>
> I personally can't imagine life without sex!
>
>
> --- Jonathan <phil_harmonik2005@...> wrote:
>
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@ wrote:
> > >
> > > >In a message dated 1/7/2007 12:46:41 A.M. Central
> > Standard Time,
> > valwp@ writes:
> > > >
> > > > People can and do live without sexual
> > relationships.
> > >
> > > Yeah, they're called Losers.
> >
> > I'll second that!!! Agreed :-)
> >
> > To deny one's normal sexual nature and drives, is
> > to force a sheer violation against the laws of
> > nature.
> > My view.
> >
> > ~ Jon
> >
> >
>
>
>

>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@> wrote:
> >
> > I'm not talking about to authors of FV, I wondered if it's a nod TO
> > FV by the authors of Apes---using the name 'Proteus'in the Sacred
> > Scrolls, or have I mis-remembered that? John Scrolls.
>
> The makers of Apes were certainly very aware of FV. Everyone was
> watching it very closely to see if it 'had legs'. The fact that FV
> performed well convinced Zanuck to greenlight Apes.
>
> This isn't proof of influence but chances were excellent that it would
> have been viewed by many key production personel.
>
> Dave
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@...> wrote:
>
> Wow, we're getting into moral territory that really strikes a note
with
> a Catholic like me. In a world where, on rough estimates, at least
4000
> Catholic priests are implicated in child abuse, the question of
> controlling 'instincts' becomes blurred---is the repression of the
> sexual 'instinct' the cause of so many Priests engaging in
criminal
> acts against children or was their primary intinct to abuse
children
> anyway.Are we so advanced and nurtured as a modern socirety that,
> really, doing good should be the automatic instinct, which is only
then
> overridden by baser instincts.Essentially, are we really still
> just 'Beasts'? Can instincts be repressed indefinitely or will the
wolf
> in the domesticated dog always be lurking under the surface? I'm
> inclined to think we're just another type of Ape, with baser
instincts
> than most of our cousins. John, Scrolls.
> >
> > ++And to deny that instincts can be at least partially
controlled is
> to
> > sacrifice choice, lay blame, deny responsibility. And that's my
> opinion.
> > Kass
> >
> >
> >
> > >
> > > To deny one's normal sexual nature and drives, is
> > > to force a sheer violation against the laws of nature.
> > > My view.
> > >
> > > ~ Jon
> > >
> >
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> I personally can't imagine life without sex!
>
>
> --- Jonathan <phil_harmonik2005@...> wrote:
>
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@ wrote:
> > >
> > > >In a message dated 1/7/2007 12:46:41 A.M. Central
> > Standard Time,
> > valwp@ writes:
> > > >
> > > > People can and do live without sexual
> > relationships.
> > >
> > > Yeah, they're called Losers.
> >
> > I'll second that!!! Agreed :-)
> >
> > To deny one's normal sexual nature and drives, is
> > to force a sheer violation against the laws of
> > nature.
> > My view.
> >
> > ~ Jon
> >
> >
>
>
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@...> wrote:
>
> Are not married then Tim? It's easier to imagine life without sex
if
> you are. How do you turn a fox into a hippo? Yup, you marry
it.John,
> Scrolls
> >
> > I personally can't imagine life without sex!
> >
> >
> > --- Jonathan <phil_harmonik2005@> wrote:
> >
> > > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >In a message dated 1/7/2007 12:46:41 A.M. Central
> > > Standard Time,
> > > valwp@ writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > People can and do live without sexual
> > > relationships.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, they're called Losers.
> > >
> > > I'll second that!!! Agreed :-)
> > >
> > > To deny one's normal sexual nature and drives, is
> > > to force a sheer violation against the laws of
> > > nature.
> > > My view.
> > >
> > > ~ Jon
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >

>
>
> In a message dated 1/9/2007 7:27:02 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> valwp@... writes:
>
> ++And to deny that instincts can be at least partially controlled is

> sacrifice choice, lay blame, deny responsibility. And that's my

> Kass
>
>
>
>
> My opinion is it's not blame that needs to get laid. Right,

>

>
> ++As was your wife's. But she overcame.
>
> Remember I'm your USA dealer and you need me.
>
> Kass
>
>
> Her moral guideline is
> totally society-made, as her natural instinct must surely be not to

> it on with another species, let alone a human.
>

> Are not married then Tim? It's easier to imagine
> life without sex if
> you are. How do you turn a fox into a hippo? Yup,
> you marry it.John,
> Scrolls
> >
> > I personally can't imagine life without sex!
> >
> >
> > --- Jonathan <phil_harmonik2005@...> wrote:
> >
> > > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >In a message dated 1/7/2007 12:46:41 A.M.
> Central
> > > Standard Time,
> > > valwp@ writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > People can and do live without sexual
> > > relationships.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, they're called Losers.
> > >
> > > I'll second that!!! Agreed :-)
> > >
> > > To deny one's normal sexual nature and
> drives, is
> > > to force a sheer violation against the laws of
> > > nature.
> > > My view.
> > >
> > > ~ Jon
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >

> I'll introduce you to my EX and then you can imagine
> life without
> sex.
> But seriously, Some people do live without sex, many
> through medical
> reasons or becuase believe it or not they have a
> supressed or at
> least not heightened sexual drives.
> If people with low sex drives weren't out there,
> then where would we
> get parking attendants from...
> Brendan.
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Tim \"apefan\""
> <apefan23@...> wrote:
> >
> > I personally can't imagine life without sex!
> >
> >
> > --- Jonathan <phil_harmonik2005@...> wrote:
> >
> > > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >In a message dated 1/7/2007 12:46:41 A.M.
> Central
> > > Standard Time,
> > > valwp@ writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > People can and do live without sexual
> > > relationships.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah, they're called Losers.
> > >
> > > I'll second that!!! Agreed :-)
> > >
> > > To deny one's normal sexual nature and
> drives, is
> > > to force a sheer violation against the laws of
> > > nature.
> > > My view.
> > >
> > > ~ Jon
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >

>>Wow, we're getting into moral territory that really strikes a note

>>How do you turn a fox into a hippo? Yup, you marry it.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> Here's something I just found that gives mention of how Eric Braedon
felt
> doing ESCAPE, though mostly it's about COLOSSUS.
>
> http://www.retrovisionmag.com/colossus.htm
>

>
> James,
>
> I luv the new banner!...It looks just like Donaldo Trump!...=)
>
> G

>
> Here's something I just found that gives mention of how Eric Braedon

> doing ESCAPE, though mostly it's about COLOSSUS.
>
> http://www.retrovisionmag.com/colossus.htm

>
>
> In a message dated 1/10/2007 5:29:43 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> Haristas@... writes:
>
> Here's something I just found that gives mention of how Eric Braedon

> doing ESCAPE
>
>
>
> Wow!
> Who knew that during that time he was also a boxer and a soccer

>

> Animals don't torture. They don't enslave. They
> don't use greed and idiology to murder their national
> neighbors with wide-scale war and plans to starve them
> out by the actual millions,

>
> > Animals don't torture. They don't enslave. They
> > don't use greed and idiology to murder their national
> > neighbors with wide-scale war and plans to starve them
> > out by the actual millions,
>
> You didn't see A BUG'S LIFE, did you?
>
> ;-)
>
> Hunter
>

>
> That's a really insightful interview---thanks for sharing! John,
> Scrolls.
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 1/10/2007 5:29:43 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> > Haristas@ writes:
> >
> > Here's something I just found that gives mention of how Eric

> felt
> > doing ESCAPE
> >
> >
> >
> > Wow!
> > Who knew that during that time he was also a boxer and a soccer
> champion?
> >
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@...> wrote:
>
Would Taylor still have pressed the
> button if he didn't think the WHOLE world was coming with him? I
> think he would have done it even if the devastation was just local,
> just to teach Zaius a lesson--namely that Zaius was right all along
> about Man! John, Scrolls.
> >
> > That's a really insightful interview---thanks for sharing! John,
> > Scrolls.

>
> And on that charming note, I've always wondered, one of the last

> for Taylor to Zaius is, "It's Doomsday. The end of the world.

> me..."...Help him what?...Any ideas?...
>
> G
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@> wrote:
> >
> Would Taylor still have pressed the
> > button if he didn't think the WHOLE world was coming with him? I
> > think he would have done it even if the devastation was just

> > just to teach Zaius a lesson--namely that Zaius was right all

> > about Man! John, Scrolls.
> > >
> > > That's a really insightful interview---thanks for sharing!

> > > Scrolls.
>

>
> Reminder from: pota Yahoo! Group
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/cal
>
> Wright King's Birthday
> Thursday January 11, 2007
> All Day
> (This event repeats every year.)
> Location: Born this day in 1923
>
> Notes:
> Dr. Galen in the original film.

>

> Wow, we're getting into moral territory that really
> strikes a note with a Catholic like me. In a world
> where, on rough estimates, at least 4000 Catholic
> priests are implicated in child abuse, the question
> of controlling 'instincts' becomes blurred---is the
> repression of the sexual 'instinct' the cause of so
> many Priests engaging in criminal acts against chil-
> dren or was their primary intinct to abuse children
> anyway.Are we so advanced and nurtured as a modern
> society that, really, doing good should be the auto-
> matic instinct, which is only then overridden by ba-
> ser instincts. Essentially, are we really still just
> 'Beasts'? Can instincts be repressed indefinitely or
> will the wolf in the domesticated dog always be lurk-
> ing under the surface? I'm inclined to think we're
> just another type of Ape, with baser instincts than
> most of our cousins. John, Scrolls.

>
> > Animals don't torture. They don't enslave. They
> > don't use greed and idiology to murder their national
> > neighbors with wide-scale war and plans to starve them
> > out by the actual millions,
>
> You didn't see A BUG'S LIFE, did you?
>
> ;-)
>
> Hunter

>
> > > In a message dated 1/11/2007 7:29:57 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> > > phil_harmonik2005@... writes:
> >
> > they cannot do anything about themselves,
> > nor... can we.
> >
> >~ Jon Rich
>
> There couldn't be two Patrick could there?

>
> And on that charming note, I've always wondered,
> one of the last lines for Taylor to Zaius is,
> "It's Doomsday. The end of the world. Help
> me..."...Help him what?...Any ideas?...
>
> G

>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Hunter Goatley <goathunter@> wrote:
> >
> > > Animals don't torture. They don't enslave. They
> > > don't use greed and idiology to murder their national
> > > neighbors with wide-scale war and plans to starve them
> > > out by the actual millions,
> >
> > You didn't see A BUG'S LIFE, did you?
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> > Hunter
> >
>
> I might add that cats play with rodents and birds,
> even when not hungry. They bite, batter and watch
> them try to crawl away before pouncing and bringing
> them back. I think that recently they have discovered
> that Chimps also torture, bully and cause pain to
> maintain power. So animals do torture.
>
> Brendan.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <phil_harmonik2005@...> wrote:
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Hunter Goatley <goathunter@> wrote:
> >
> > > Animals don't torture. They don't enslave. They
> > > don't use greed and idiology to murder their national
> > > neighbors with wide-scale war and plans to starve them
> > > out by the actual millions,
> >
> > You didn't see A BUG'S LIFE, did you?
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> > Hunter
>
> LOL! :-) Yes, I saw A BUG'S Life. But... I'm
> pretty sure that those bugs... weren't real. Well,
> mostly sure, kinda... sorta...
>
> ~ Jon Rich
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <phil_harmonik2005@...> wrote:
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@ wrote:
> >
> > > > In a message dated 1/11/2007 7:29:57 A.M. Central Standard
Time,
> > > > phil_harmonik2005@ writes:
> > >
> > > they cannot do anything about themselves,
> > > nor... can we.
> > >
> > >~ Jon Rich
> >
> > There couldn't be two Patrick could there?
>
> Not sure what you mean. Who is the original
> 'Patrick' that you're referringn to?
>
> ~ Jon Rich
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <phil_harmonik2005@...> wrote:
>
>
> Dr Zaius walks into a Human department store, looking
> for a few necessary household items. He finds what he
> needs easily enough, taking his chosen new items to the
> checkout counter.
>
> The Human cashier there totals Dr Zaius' items, then
> tells the venerable Ape, "That will be $87.50. How would
> you like to pay, Sir? Cash? Check? Credit card?"
>
> "With an autopsy." Dr Zaius replies.
>
> "An autopsy???" returns the Human cashier.
>
> "Yes. Yours. And your family's." Zaius clarifies.
>
> "Yes, of course, Doctor. Would you like these gift-
> wrapped?" the cashier asks him."
>
> "Please." Zaius agrees.
>
> The cashier then wraps his purchases very nicely, and
> gladly allows him to leave- without paying...
>
> ~ An original POTA joke by Jonathan Rich
>

> >
> > I might add that cats play with rodents and birds,
> > even when not hungry. They bite, batter and watch
> > them try to crawl away before pouncing and bringing
> > them back. I think that recently they have discovered
> > that Chimps also torture, bully and cause pain to
> > maintain power. So animals do torture.
> >
> > Brendan.
>
> Hmmmm... all of that is very debatable. Torture,
> usually defined in the dictionary as a means to punish
> and coerce, is often misdefined by failing to note
> that Humans also do it for actual pleasure, to dominant
> and harm those they are able to. Such is done with plan-
> ning and reason, purpose and direction, and unfortunately
> for personal pleasure.
>
> With respect to cats, yes, they do 'play with their
> food'. But cats are domesticated pets that have been
> bred as such to skew their purer natural instincts.
> they still possess the instinct to kill to survive,
> by with those that actually do kill, say a mouse or a
> bird, their instinct to do so is true, but that cat,
> not truly hungry, being well fed as a domestic beast,
> is left with playing with what they've caught, often
> because they are mesmerized by the movement of their
> struggling injured prey. We have bred them more to
> play, than to act fully carnivoriously. And... this
> is why keeping non-domesticated felines and other animals
> as pets has often proven so dangerous. Their 'wildness'
> having not been bred out of them. The domestic cat, still
> the basic hunter, wasn not raised to hunt, and when they
> do... don't seem to be completely sure what to do with
> their captured prey. They are... 'confused'. And it
> is us that is to blame, in a real sense.

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <phil_harmonik2005@> wrote:
> >
> > Dr Zaius walks into a Human department store, looking
> > for a few necessary household items. He finds what he
> > needs easily enough, taking his chosen new items to the
> > checkout counter.
> >
> > The Human cashier there totals Dr Zaius' items, then
> > tells the venerable Ape, "That will be $87.50. How would
> > you like to pay, Sir? Cash? Check? Credit card?"
> >
> > "With an autopsy." Dr Zaius replies.
> >
> > "An autopsy???" returns the Human cashier.
> >
> > "Yes. Yours. And your family's." Zaius clarifies.
> >
> > "Yes, of course, Doctor. Would you like these gift-
> > wrapped?" the cashier asks him."
> >
> > "Please." Zaius agrees.
> >
> > The cashier then wraps his purchases very nicely, and
> > gladly allows him to leave- without paying...
> >
> > ~ An original POTA joke by Jonathan Rich
>
--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Glen" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:
>
> I think I missed the punch-line...
>
> G

*Snicker* :-) I think that you just added one :-)

~ Jon

> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <phil_harmonik2005@> wrote:
>
> > > You didn't see A BUG'S LIFE, did you?
> > >
> > > ;-)
> > >
> > > Hunter
> >
> > LOL! :-) Yes, I saw A BUG'S Life. But... I'm
> > pretty sure that those bugs... weren't real. Well,
> > mostly sure, kinda... sorta...
> >
> > ~ Jon Rich
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Glen" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:
>
> That's what they want you to believe!...=)
>
> G

> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@ wrote:
> > >
> > > There couldn't be two Patrick could there?
> >
> > Not sure what you mean. Who is the original
> > 'Patrick' that you're referringn to?
> >
> > ~ Jon Rich
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Glen" <HotScheetz@...> wrote:
>
> Believe me, you don't want to know!...
>
> G

>
> > > I might add that cats play with rodents and birds,
> > > even when not hungry. They bite, batter and watch
> > > them try to crawl away before pouncing and bringing
> > > them back. I think that recently they have discovered
> > > that Chimps also torture, bully and cause pain to
> > > maintain power. So animals do torture.
> > >
> > > Brendan.
> >
> > Hmmmm... all of that is very debatable. Torture,
> > usually defined in the dictionary as a means to punish
> > and coerce, is often misdefined by failing to note
> > that Humans also do it for actual pleasure, to dominant
> > and harm those they are able to. Such is done with plan-
> > ning and reason, purpose and direction, and unfortunately
> > for personal pleasure.
> >
> > With respect to cats, yes, they do 'play with their
> > food'. But cats are domesticated pets that have been
> > bred as such to skew their purer natural instincts.
> > they still possess the instinct to kill to survive,
> > by with those that actually do kill, say a mouse or a
> > bird, their instinct to do so is true, but that cat,
> > not truly hungry, being well fed as a domestic beast,
> > is left with playing with what they've caught, often
> > because they are mesmerized by the movement of their
> > struggling injured prey. We have bred them more to
> > play, than to act fully carnivoriously. And... this
> > is why keeping non-domesticated felines and other animals
> > as pets has often proven so dangerous. Their 'wildness'
> > having not been bred out of them. The domestic cat, still
> > the basic hunter, wasn not raised to hunt, and when they
> > do... don't seem to be completely sure what to do with
> > their captured prey. They are... 'confused'. And it
> > is us that is to blame, in a real sense.
>
> ***** Are humans not merely domesticated animals
> as well?

> Semantics aside. Cats torture. Explaining why is
> irrelevant or just as relevant for humans. My an-
> swer was to the point that only humans torture. I
> do not agree with the statement. If Humans rever-
> ted to savagery then, like the feline or many other
> animals,they will adopt instintive behaviour, like
> killing only out of real survival need. Cats tor-
> ture. Simple. Reasons aside. original statement
> therefore challenged.

> Let us not forget that Human kind is an animal,
> at the top or high up the evolutionary ladder,
> but still an animal, and as such capable of,
> and party to, animal like behaviours. And Vice
> Versa.

> Now I view absolute statements that, only
> Humans torture for pleasure to be in the same
> league as 'God made me do it' or 'play with
> yourself too much and you'll go blind'.

> Statements made when you wish others to accept
> the same view of the world that you hold.

> Interpreting animals playing with food as tor-
> ture is not an extreme interpretation.

> It seems a very reasonable point of view from
> where I sit.

> Animals might use a different language to describe
> what they are doing. Perhaps a cat is just RRRRRRR-
> RWWWEEE with it's food. But since I don't know how
> to interpret cat language, I'll use a language I
> understand. I choose the word Torture, even without
> going to the dictionary definition.

> Also, reasons for torture as justification, are
> subjective.

> Bush thinks it is not torture because he is on
> the side of God and McDonalds. Bobo the chimp
> thinks it is not torture because he wants to
> remain alpha male.

> But they both use violence to maintain their
> place and until science can feel exactly what
> Bush and Bobo are feeling at the time they
> inflict pain, then I will Interpret their acts
> as Torture.

> Humans and animals, one and the same. Degrees only.

> Brendan.

>
> I want to conclude by saying that we should end this
> line of discussion, to agree to disagree, before this turns
> into a 'violent' and 'torturous' affair as a debate. Let
> this thread end here, and leave it be. I'd prefer that
> we remain friends, and not argue over a triviality such
> as this, one belief against... another. Our exchange so
> far 'can' be interpreted as 'confrontational', sorry to
> say.
>
> I don't expect to reply further to this thread re-
> lative to this matter. It is done in my view. Thank-
> you :-) We are finished here :-)
>
> Thankyou so much for engaging me in this discussion :-)
>
> ~ Jon Rich
>
> No Tag- end of thread, for me...

>

>

>
> I apologise to the members of this group for my recent tirades.
> I broke my own rules as well as those of this group, for entering

> personal conflagrations.
>
> Brendan.
>

>
> Is there any news from Ty and the crew concerning the Trade paperback
> of 'Revolution' and/or any new APE comic projects?
>
> Dave B
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "brendan486" <nzape@...> wrote:
>
> I apologise to the members of this group for my recent tirades.
> I broke my own rules as well as those of this group, for entering
into
> personal conflagrations.
>
> Brendan.
>

>

> Jon:
> I respect a good debate, really. But please don't
> personalize this. Don't suggest "I open my eyes" -
> this is a personal statement to someone you know
> *nothing* about. You seem to have forgotten the
> original cause of this debate: a 70s TV SHOW. What
> I think a scriptwriter would have realistically have
> written, what I think a network would approve for on
> a primetime television show in the 70s about apes
> ruling the earth has NOTHING to do with reality.

> My response to your comments about sexuality, on the
> other hand, came about because your email seemed to say
> that we as a species are all unconditionally ruled by our
> instincts. There are plenty of situations and realities
> you can show me that prove we ARE ANIMALS.

> I don't dispute it.

> I disputed the idea that humans don't exercise some
> control over those instincts. I dispute the possible
> inference that because we are ruled by instinct, we
> should throw in the towel and rape, steal, kill and
> throw feces.

> I'd like to suggest that you make your points
> without involving me and my starving children. Stop
> throwing feces my way, Jon. It's personal, and I
> don't know you and I don't like it.

> Kass

>
> Folks, ....is there any reason why we don't have
> a POTA fan club anymore? If one asks why we would
> want to do this my answer is simple, it is because
> we want more POTA at the movies, tv, and on DVD
> than what we are limited to today. Comics are
> cool, and I have a good start on collecting them,
> but movie videos is what I really want!
>
> Look,...Star Trek, due to a great following
> brought out a series of movies, and a few tv
> series as well,...and for me, POTA is better!
> Think positive and imagine how nice it could
> be! That is the importance of "fan clubs"...
> the following.
>
> I'd pay to get a t-shirt, or certificate if a
> fan club was started. I'd love a great drive
> to make movie makers start another APE movie...
> which should always be our ultimate goal when
> reading our "Mission Statement".
>
> I love this APE crap, it is the only SCI-FI stuff
> I follow!
>
> Ape over Vulcan any day!
>
> Am I wrong, please let me know, I will accept
> it and respect you for telling, and teaching me.
>
> Very respectfully,
> Paul Wright

> HUH?
>
>

> Folks, ....is there any reason why we don't have a
> POTA fan club
> anymore? If one asks why we would want to do this
> my answer is
> simple, it is because we want more POTA at the
> movies, tv, and on DVD
> than what we are limited to today. Comics are cool,
> and I have a
> good start on collecting them, but movie videos is
> what I really want!
>
> Look,...Star Trek, due to a great following brought
> out a series of
> movies, and a few tv series as well,...and for me,
> POTA is better!
> Think positive and imagine how nice it could be!
> That is the
> importance of "fan clubs"...the following.
>
> I'd pay to get a t-shirt, or certificate if a fan
> club was started.
> I'd love a great drive to make movie makers start
> another APE
> movie,...which should always be our ultimate goal
> when reading
> our "Mission Statement".
>
> I love this APE crap, it is the only SCI-FI stuff I
> follow!
>
> Ape over Vulcan any day!
>
> Am I wrong, please let me know, I will accept it and
> respect you for
> telling, and teaching me.
>
> Very respectfully, Paul Wright
>
>

>-- Original Message --
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>From: "shanter2002" <john@...>
>Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 13:24:00 -0000
>Subject: [POTA] Logan's Crap
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>Why, I don't know, but I've been following Logan's Run on Sci Fi over
>here and Christ on a Bike is it crap! Ten episodes in an it's truly
>dreadful, formulaic pap of the worst, cheap, sort.I'm curiously
>attached to the series--I like the sunshine and Rem, and it was a
>surrogate Apes for me when first broadcast.There have been, out of 10
>so far, two decent episodes.I also saw some original Trek last night,
>where Spock's brain had been stolen.What a load of balls that was too!
>How anybody can criticise the Apes tv series is beyond me if this
>garbage is the competition.I still say that, if you ignore the ctitical

>mantra, and actually watch the Apes tv series, it's a revelation and
>immeasurably superior to other shows of the same era.John, Scrolls.
>

>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <p3murds@> wrote:
> >
> > Folks, ....is there any reason why we don't have
> > a POTA fan club anymore? If one asks why we would
> > want to do this my answer is simple, it is because
> > we want more POTA at the movies, tv, and on DVD
> > than what we are limited to today. Comics are
> > cool, and I have a good start on collecting them,
> > but movie videos is what I really want!
> >
> > Look,...Star Trek, due to a great following
> > brought out a series of movies, and a few tv
> > series as well,...and for me, POTA is better!
> > Think positive and imagine how nice it could
> > be! That is the importance of "fan clubs"...
> > the following.
> >
> > I'd pay to get a t-shirt, or certificate if a
> > fan club was started. I'd love a great drive
> > to make movie makers start another APE movie...
> > which should always be our ultimate goal when
> > reading our "Mission Statement".
> >
> > I love this APE crap, it is the only SCI-FI stuff
> > I follow!
> >
> > Ape over Vulcan any day!
> >
> > Am I wrong, please let me know, I will accept
> > it and respect you for telling, and teaching me.
> >
> > Very respectfully,
> > Paul Wright
>
>
> Considering that you mentioned Star trek, and I am a
> fan of that and POTA too, allow me to mention that in the
> case of Star Trek... there are a number of websites that
> feature fan-based and financed, written and filmed 'new'
> Star Trek adventures. One in particular uses 'actors'
> that duplicate existing characters like Kirk, Spock and
> the rest, and others create vids aboard different star-
> ships of the fleet, of which there were originally 12 by
> count- those starships.
>
> These fan productions tend to go all out, building
> complete working full sets, one in particular as large
> as the Enterprise engine room, and mostly all others
> as well, down to the Captain's cabin. Green screen and
> digital effects are employed, in addition to the usual
> props and costumes, scenery and models. it's amazing
> what can be done on home computers these days with just
> a bit of software and a few hardware items. In some
> cases now, complete sets don't have to be built at all.
> They are computer-generated and the actors do their
> thing in a green-screen room. And the results are
> amazing! :-) An amazing savings in money, that method.
>
> But surprisingly, and in spite of the great POTA
> following, I have seen very little of such similar as
> far as POTA is concerned. Albiet some of the Star
> Trek stuff is amateurish, but some of it is quite good,
> and the fans eat ALL of it up!!! The actors in these
> fan productions even have their own fan base. Some
> have even made convention and Tv appearances, and have
> had numerous articles written about them. It's just
> amazing :-)
>
> But why then... aren't there more POTA productions
> in a similar context out there??? The POTA following
> is real and solid, and POTA fans just can't seem to get
> ehough. And the fan-based Star Trek stuff is, I'm sure,
> actually making people some money. But money or profit
> not withstanding, there really should be more POTA of-
> ferings like what Star Trek fans are doing. Even the
> stuff related to Star Wars doesn't compare.
>
> What is needed then, is for a group of POTA fans to
> really get together and do something much more substan-
> tive, up to and including making fan-based films- and
> though not official, is still POTA. Done properly,
> such can be very fan-rewarding. But... where is it?
> Why hasn't someone pulled that sort of thing together,
> as yet? I'm not sure of the answer, but how difficult,
> really, can it be to do?
>
> A real and solid POTA club can rely on fan contribu-
> tions, like other clubs do, to pull the funds to create
> POTA fan fims in number and quality, if only someone
> was able, willing, and had the time to devote to such a
> task. That... is where the real effort comes in, requir-
> ing a fan or group of them ready to put forth that effort.
>
> Whether or not that will happen... only time will
> indeed tell. And if I had the finances- I would cer-
> tainly DO it :-D
>
> ~ Jon Rich
>

>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <p3murds@> wrote:
> >
> > Folks, ....is there any reason why we don't have
> > a POTA fan club anymore? If one asks why we would
> > want to do this my answer is simple, it is because
> > we want more POTA at the movies, tv, and on DVD
> > than what we are limited to today. Comics are
> > cool, and I have a good start on collecting them,
> > but movie videos is what I really want!
> >
> > Look,...Star Trek, due to a great following
> > brought out a series of movies, and a few tv
> > series as well,...and for me, POTA is better!
> > Think positive and imagine how nice it could
> > be! That is the importance of "fan clubs"...
> > the following.
> >
> > I'd pay to get a t-shirt, or certificate if a
> > fan club was started. I'd love a great drive
> > to make movie makers start another APE movie...
> > which should always be our ultimate goal when
> > reading our "Mission Statement".
> >
> > I love this APE crap, it is the only SCI-FI stuff
> > I follow!
> >
> > Ape over Vulcan any day!
> >
> > Am I wrong, please let me know, I will accept
> > it and respect you for telling, and teaching me.
> >
> > Very respectfully,
> > Paul Wright
>
>
> Considering that you mentioned Star trek, and I am a
> fan of that and POTA too, allow me to mention that in the
> case of Star Trek... there are a number of websites that
> feature fan-based and financed, written and filmed 'new'
> Star Trek adventures. One in particular uses 'actors'
> that duplicate existing characters like Kirk, Spock and
> the rest, and others create vids aboard different star-
> ships of the fleet, of which there were originally 12 by
> count- those starships.
>
> These fan productions tend to go all out, building
> complete working full sets, one in particular as large
> as the Enterprise engine room, and mostly all others
> as well, down to the Captain's cabin. Green screen and
> digital effects are employed, in addition to the usual
> props and costumes, scenery and models. it's amazing
> what can be done on home computers these days with just
> a bit of software and a few hardware items. In some
> cases now, complete sets don't have to be built at all.
> They are computer-generated and the actors do their
> thing in a green-screen room. And the results are
> amazing! :-) An amazing savings in money, that method.
>
> But surprisingly, and in spite of the great POTA
> following, I have seen very little of such similar as
> far as POTA is concerned. Albiet some of the Star
> Trek stuff is amateurish, but some of it is quite good,
> and the fans eat ALL of it up!!! The actors in these
> fan productions even have their own fan base. Some
> have even made convention and Tv appearances, and have
> had numerous articles written about them. It's just
> amazing :-)
>
> But why then... aren't there more POTA productions
> in a similar context out there??? The POTA following
> is real and solid, and POTA fans just can't seem to get
> ehough. And the fan-based Star Trek stuff is, I'm sure,
> actually making people some money. But money or profit
> not withstanding, there really should be more POTA of-
> ferings like what Star Trek fans are doing. Even the
> stuff related to Star Wars doesn't compare.
>
> What is needed then, is for a group of POTA fans to
> really get together and do something much more substan-
> tive, up to and including making fan-based films- and
> though not official, is still POTA. Done properly,
> such can be very fan-rewarding. But... where is it?
> Why hasn't someone pulled that sort of thing together,
> as yet? I'm not sure of the answer, but how difficult,
> really, can it be to do?
>
> A real and solid POTA club can rely on fan contribu-
> tions, like other clubs do, to pull the funds to create
> POTA fan fims in number and quality, if only someone
> was able, willing, and had the time to devote to such a
> task. That... is where the real effort comes in, requir-
> ing a fan or group of them ready to put forth that effort.
>
> Whether or not that will happen... only time will
> indeed tell. And if I had the finances- I would cer-
> tainly DO it :-D
>
> ~ Jon Rich
>

>
> > A real and solid POTA club can rely on fan contribu-
> > tions, like other clubs do, to pull the funds to create
> > POTA fan fims in number and quality, if only someone
> > was able, willing, and had the time to devote to such a
> > task. That... is where the real effort comes in, requir-
> > ing a fan or group of them ready to put forth that effort.
> >
> > Whether or not that will happen... only time will
> > indeed tell. And if I had the finances- I would cer-
> > tainly DO it :-D
> >
> > ~ Jon Rich
> >
>
> Well Jon, maybe the highest hurdle is the fact
> of one needing to make an ape face(s), or mask(s)
> that doesn't look like crap. Star Trek doesn't
> need much except for tight bright colored shirts,
> pointy ears, and/or some kind of masks for the
> "Cling-ons"? I have seen people dressed like
> they just walked off the Enterprise at Costco to
> be honest. I do appreciate Star Trek, and respect
> it's following to make myself clear.
>
> I do value this site, and currently it is the "fan
> club", but I know that we could all pull together
> and surely do a little more?
>
> Very respectfully, Paul

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <p3murds@...> wrote:
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <phil_harmonik2005@> wrote:
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <p3murds@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Folks, ....is there any reason why we don't have
> > > a POTA fan club anymore? If one asks why we would
> > > want to do this my answer is simple, it is because
> > > we want more POTA at the movies, tv, and on DVD
> > > than what we are limited to today. Comics are
> > > cool, and I have a good start on collecting them,
> > > but movie videos is what I really want!
> > >
> > > Look,...Star Trek, due to a great following
> > > brought out a series of movies, and a few tv
> > > series as well,...and for me, POTA is better!
> > > Think positive and imagine how nice it could
> > > be! That is the importance of "fan clubs"...
> > > the following.
> > >
> > > I'd pay to get a t-shirt, or certificate if a
> > > fan club was started. I'd love a great drive
> > > to make movie makers start another APE movie...
> > > which should always be our ultimate goal when
> > > reading our "Mission Statement".
> > >
> > > I love this APE crap, it is the only SCI-FI stuff
> > > I follow!
> > >
> > > Ape over Vulcan any day!
> > >
> > > Am I wrong, please let me know, I will accept
> > > it and respect you for telling, and teaching me.
> > >
> > > Very respectfully,
> > > Paul Wright
> >
> >
> > Considering that you mentioned Star trek, and I am a
> > fan of that and POTA too, allow me to mention that in the
> > case of Star Trek... there are a number of websites that
> > feature fan-based and financed, written and filmed 'new'
> > Star Trek adventures. One in particular uses 'actors'
> > that duplicate existing characters like Kirk, Spock and
> > the rest, and others create vids aboard different star-
> > ships of the fleet, of which there were originally 12 by
> > count- those starships.
> >
> > These fan productions tend to go all out, building
> > complete working full sets, one in particular as large
> > as the Enterprise engine room, and mostly all others
> > as well, down to the Captain's cabin. Green screen and
> > digital effects are employed, in addition to the usual
> > props and costumes, scenery and models. it's amazing
> > what can be done on home computers these days with just
> > a bit of software and a few hardware items. In some
> > cases now, complete sets don't have to be built at all.
> > They are computer-generated and the actors do their
> > thing in a green-screen room. And the results are
> > amazing! :-) An amazing savings in money, that method.
> >
> > But surprisingly, and in spite of the great POTA
> > following, I have seen very little of such similar as
> > far as POTA is concerned. Albiet some of the Star
> > Trek stuff is amateurish, but some of it is quite good,
> > and the fans eat ALL of it up!!! The actors in these
> > fan productions even have their own fan base. Some
> > have even made convention and Tv appearances, and have
> > had numerous articles written about them. It's just
> > amazing :-)
> >
> > But why then... aren't there more POTA productions
> > in a similar context out there??? The POTA following
> > is real and solid, and POTA fans just can't seem to get
> > ehough. And the fan-based Star Trek stuff is, I'm sure,
> > actually making people some money. But money or profit
> > not withstanding, there really should be more POTA of-
> > ferings like what Star Trek fans are doing. Even the
> > stuff related to Star Wars doesn't compare.
> >
> > What is needed then, is for a group of POTA fans to
> > really get together and do something much more substan-
> > tive, up to and including making fan-based films- and
> > though not official, is still POTA. Done properly,
> > such can be very fan-rewarding. But... where is it?
> > Why hasn't someone pulled that sort of thing together,
> > as yet? I'm not sure of the answer, but how difficult,
> > really, can it be to do?
> >
> > A real and solid POTA club can rely on fan contribu-
> > tions, like other clubs do, to pull the funds to create
> > POTA fan fims in number and quality, if only someone
> > was able, willing, and had the time to devote to such a
> > task. That... is where the real effort comes in, requir-
> > ing a fan or group of them ready to put forth that effort.
> >
> > Whether or not that will happen... only time will
> > indeed tell. And if I had the finances- I would cer-
> > tainly DO it :-D
> >
> > ~ Jon Rich
> >
>
> Well Jon, maybe the highest hurdle is the fact of one needing to
make
> an ape face(s), or mask(s) that doesn't look like crap. Star Trek
> doesn't need much except for tight bright colored shirts, pointy
> ears, and/or some kind of masks for the "Cling-ons"? I have seen
> people dressed like they just walked off the Enterprise at Costco
to
> be honest. I do appreciate Star Trek, and respect it's following
to
> make myself clear.
>
> I do value this site, and currently it is the "fan club", but I
know
> that we could all pull together and surely do a little more?
>
> Very respectfully, Paul
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@...> wrote:
>
> The following would be well worth reading:
>
> <http://members.aol.com/lknafc/nafc/startfc.htm>
>
> Dave
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Hunter Goatley <goathunter@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks to James Aquila, pressbooks for BENEATH and ESCAPE are now
> available for viewing on my Apes site. They join the PLANET pressbook
> previously contributed by Tim Parati. Pressbooks for CONQUEST and
> BATTLE will be added soon.
>
> Thanks, James!
>
> https://pota.goatley.com/
>
> Hunter
> ------
> Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/
> <goathunter@...> http://www.goatley.com/hunter/
>

>
> Thanks to James Aquila, pressbooks for BENEATH and
> ESCAPE are now available for viewing on my Apes site.
> They join the PLANET pressbook previously contributed
> by Tim Parati. Pressbooks for CONQUEST and BATTLE
> will be added soon.
>
> Thanks, James!
>
> https://pota.goatley.com/
>
> Hunter
> ------
> Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/
> <goathunter@...> http://www.goatley.com/hunter/

>
> The following would be well worth reading:
>
> <http://members.aol.com/lknafc/nafc/startfc.htm>
>
> Dave

>
> Well, to be honest, we wouldn't have to start off
> so big. The infant stages of this fan club would
> only ask for a small entry fee, and for that fee a
> small something could be given in return? I have
> almost unlimited things I can think of too.
>
> We would have to pick a President, Vice President,
> and Treasurer of course.
>
> Would any of the makers of POTA stuff notice us?
> I'd say they would if we screamed and yelled.
>
> Our "mission statement" in my opinion would have to
> include our desire to have more POTA movies, cartoons,
> and you name it to be done?
>
> With growth in members, and funding, we could then
> look at bigger and better things to do.
>
> That's just me, Paul

>
> In a message dated 1/14/2007 1:40:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> phil_harmonik2005@... writes:
>
> Then of course there's the building of sets, props,
> the creation of costumes, cameras, lighting, and all
> that. An amazing amount and variety of things needed.
> Just pulling the right people together would be a sta-
> tistical mightmare in logistics. Such requires an im-
> mense amount of planning.
>
> ~ Jon
>
> Well you could do a CONQUEST follow-up or prequel
> and save on sets but the makeup/costume bill would
> still be astronomical.
>
> Bruce

A few days late but the new LESSON FROM THE LAWGIVER is now available. Thanks to all who contributed.

To view the LESSON click on the banner on the Yahoo Home page or use this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm.

Visit all the Group's special features including:

• The Internal Website  - Original POTA One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much more.
• POTA Locations  - The places where the POTA films were shot.
• The Art Gallery  - Works of POTA Art by our members.
• The Database Section  - POTA info ranging from Characters to Comics.
• The Photos Section  - POTA pics contributed by members.

Also, be sure to join our sub-groups:

• The POTA Fan Fiction Group  - Fanfic by members.
• The POTA File Archive  - Old files that were too large for the files section here.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
>
> A few days late but the new LESSON FROM THE LAWGIVER is now
available.
> Thanks to all who contributed.
>
> To view the LESSON click on the banner on the Yahoo Home page or use
> this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm> .
>
> Visit all the Group's special features including:
>
> * The Internal Website
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm> - Original
> POTA One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading
Cards and
> much, much more. * POTA Locations
>
<http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/POTAlocations.htm>
-
> The places where the POTA films were shot. * The Art Gallery
>
<http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/TheArtGallery.htm>
-
> Works of POTA Art by our members. * The Database Section
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/database> - POTA info
> ranging from Characters to Comics. * The Photos Section
> <http://movies.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/photos> - POTA pics
> contributed by members.
>
> Also, be sure to join our sub-groups:
>
> * The POTA Fan Fiction Group
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaFanFiction> - Fanfic by
> members. * The POTA File Archive
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/POTAFileArchive> - Old files
> that were too large for the files section here.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jonathan" <phil_harmonik2005@...> wrote:
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, stenosaurus@ wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 1/14/2007 1:40:47 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> > phil_harmonik2005@ writes:
> >
> > Then of course there's the building of sets, props,
> > the creation of costumes, cameras, lighting, and all
> > that. An amazing amount and variety of things needed.
> > Just pulling the right people together would be a sta-
> > tistical mightmare in logistics. Such requires an im-
> > mense amount of planning.
> >
> > ~ Jon
> >
> > Well you could do a CONQUEST follow-up or prequel
> > and save on sets but the makeup/costume bill would
> > still be astronomical.
> >
> > Bruce
>
> Oh yes, that is most definately true. And consider-
> ing the amount of work required and money needed such
> would have to be a true labor of love, considering that
> likely such will be done with no expectations of profit.
> And I mean... likely no profit at all, to a true loss.
>
> Such labors of love, especially by a group of people,
> is very, very, very rare, sorry to say.
>
> ~ Jon
>