.html

----- Original Message -----

From: shanter2002

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 11:50 AM

Subject: [POTA] Re: TV Series

Wow--I never knew Stan Winston worked on the Apes show. Makes me even
sadder that his amazing test make-ups for the Burton movie didn't get
to be used, as they were beautiful.If a scene was filmes, but cut,
maybe it still exists somewhere? I'd love to see the script for that
scene--there was a LOT of good stuff cut out of The Interrogation,
which is annoying as the bits in Urko's office could easily have been
cut instead.Bill getting a residuals cheque does suggest it was shown
somewhere--unless the industry rules at the time gave him residuals
even if not transmitted? It would be great to have Bill re-create
that scene someday. John, Scrolls.
>
> Bill Blake was also the only ape actor in the history of the
franchise to sculpt his own appliance. Stan Winston worked on the
show and was impressed by Bill's work. Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff K.
> To: pota@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 9:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [POTA] Re: TV Series
>
>
>
> Yeah, Bill Blake and Lee Delano filmed a scene for "The
Interrogation" . John Roche sent me a cut scene from the ep, a sauna
scene between Urko and Zauis, kinda like a poor man's "Beneath".
Since that was cut, maybe this was a replacement. I guess it got cut
for time. The astros abandon the cart at Bill's farm and Lee
questions him about it. It was filmed. Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: shanter2002
> To: pota@yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2007 1:04 AM
> Subject: [POTA] Re: TV Series
>
>
> The script is on Hunter's site, I believe.In the script, our
intrepid
> duo never steal a cart at all, they enlist the help of a human
cart
> driver who enjoys his 15 minutes of rebellion. As for gorilla
> farmers, personally I don't think they existed , although Kava
in The
> Cure may have had to consider this as a career choice in the
end.The
> scene, as filmed, is poor, in my humble opinion and Bill Blake
has
> spoken in the past about talking with make-up people on set
about his
> appliance and his scene with Delano.I think it should have been
Bill,
> as a farmer chimp, on that cart, with a follow up scene of
Delano
> questioning Bill about the theft.What happened to the poor
gorilla
> they robbed--did he just die/starve to death? The past time
> interrogation scene might have been done too, given the
flashback
> they actually used in the episode.It's my favourite episode,
but it
> could have been even better--I'd have loved Effinger to
novelise it.
> John, Scrolls.
> >
> > I'm curious, which version of the script is that in? A lot of
the
> > scripts went thru many drafts before being finalized. I'm not
> saying
> > the scene wasn't scripted, I am wondering though how it was
all
> > written in the script? Are you saying the script had Galen
and
> Virdon
> > steal the chimp's cart, and then they talked some human cart
driver
> > into driving the stolen cart into the city? After all that
> happened,
> > then the chimp was questioned?
> >
> > As for the gorilla farmer, who's to say there aren't more?
After
> all,
> > they were originally intended to be not only the police and
> soldiers,
> > but the "heavy laborers" too. As far as the purple pants, no
big
> deal
> > there either. Purple is the gorilla's primary color, just as
green
> is
> > the chimp's. Saying that a gorilla farmer shouldn't be
wearing
> purple
> > pants is like saying that Polar shouldn't be wearing his
green
> pants.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups. com, "shanter2002" <john@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I, personally, do think that something odd happened with
that
> whole
> > > scene. The script had Virdon and Galen getting help from a
human
> > cart
> > > driver, who drives them right into the City, with them
hidden
> > > underneath.I can understand why that was altered, as it
gave
> Roddy
> > > the chance to ham it up as 'Granny Galen'.Bill' s scene was
meant
> to
> > > be a chimp farmer being questioned by a gorilla about the
theft
> of
> > > his cart.The gorilla was played by Lee Delano and there are
> behind
> > > the scenes pics of Lee that don't fit the episode as seen--
> there's
> > > one of him on his autograph site that suits Bill's scene--a
> > farmyard
> > > type setting.The transmitted scene is awful and looks like
a last
> > > minute lash up--a gorilla farmer(are there ANY gorilla
farmers
> > > anywhere else in the series?---they' re all chimps) still
wearing
> > his
> > > purple soldier pants is caught in a monumentally infantile
trap.
> It
> > > is just about possible that footage with Bill's character
could
> > exist-
> > > --different versions of Doctor Who went around the world.I
do
> > believe
> > > Bill.The best scene cut from The Interrogation is a
flashback of
> > > Burke getting military coaching in how to resist
questioning- -it
> > > would have really made the title of the epoisode relevant,
> > comparing
> > > how Apes and Humans do these things.It would also have been
very
> > > relevant today. John, Scrolls.
> > > >
> > > > I've never for one minute believed that story.
> > > >
> > > > The way he describes the scene, it was exactly the same
as the
> > > scene
> > > > where Galen and Virdon, except of course in the episode,
it was
> a
> > > > gorilla whose cart was hijacked.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In pota@yahoogroups. com, "shanter2002" <john@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > In issue #12 of Marvel's Apes mag, Bill Blake mentions
his
> > scene
> > > was
> > > > > cut from The Interrogation. However, he says that , due
to
> > > showings in
> > > > > Europe, he had a residuals cheque, suggesting, maybe,
his
> scene
> > > could
> > > > > have survived in Europe.It's difficult to see how,but
maybe,
> > just
> > > > > maybe, the scene with a chimp farmer being questioned
by a
> > > gorilla
> > > > > could have been aired somewhere? Otherwise, why the
rediduals
> > for
> > > > Bill?
> > > > > Any Europeans out there who taped it in the 70s?! John,
> Scrolls.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

<.html

About this Urko/Zaius scene: Are you saying that it was filmed and John
sent you "video" of this missing bit? If so, will it be provided to Mr.
Goatley to distribute on any future DVDs he may compile?

And, if the Urko/Zaius scene was cut, whose to say that Bill's scene
wasn't entirely scrapped too and they just went with what we have now?
(And by that, I mean entirely scrapped, not just filmed and left on the
cutting room floor.)

You may say it was filmed, and he may say it was filmed as well.
Perhaps it was, but I remain very cautious about believing it for these
reasons: If Bill was indeed in the episode, why didn't he have any
photos taken? His "Cornelius" days are well documented, as there are
professional photos of he and Paula in various ape-incarntions. If he
was on the APES set, why are there no photos taken of him as there are
of Mr. Delano?

And, another question arises: There are many who claim that Bill not
only could mimic Roddy's voice, but that he actually LOOKED like Mc
Dowall did as an ape. If that is all true, why would the casting
department even consider somebody who would be mistaken for the star of
their show?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
Yeah, Bill Blake and Lee Delano filmed a scene for "The
Interrogation". John Roche sent me a cut scene from the ep, a sauna
scene between Urko and Zauis, kinda like a poor man's "Beneath". Since
that was cut, maybe this was a replacement. I guess it got cut for
time. The astros abandon the cart at Bill's farm and Lee questions him
about it. It was filmed. Jeff

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: aboro3085

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 3:54 PM

Subject: [POTA] Re: TV Series

About this Urko/Zaius scene: Are you saying that it was filmed and John
sent you "video" of this missing bit? If so, will it be provided to Mr.
Goatley to distribute on any future DVDs he may compile?

And, if the Urko/Zaius scene was cut, whose to say that Bill's scene
wasn't entirely scrapped too and they just went with what we have now?
(And by that, I mean entirely scrapped, not just filmed and left on the
cutting room floor.)

You may say it was filmed, and he may say it was filmed as well.
Perhaps it was, but I remain very cautious about believing it for these
reasons: If Bill was indeed in the episode, why didn't he have any
photos taken? His "Cornelius" days are well documented, as there are
professional photos of he and Paula in various ape-incarntions. If he
was on the APES set, why are there no photos taken of him as there are
of Mr. Delano?

And, another question arises: There are many who claim that Bill not
only could mimic Roddy's voice, but that he actually LOOKED like Mc
Dowall did as an ape. If that is all true, why would the casting
department even consider somebody who would be mistaken for the star of
their show?

--- In pota@yahoogroups. com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
Yeah, Bill Blake and Lee Delano filmed a scene for "The
Interrogation" . John Roche sent me a cut scene from the ep, a sauna
scene between Urko and Zauis, kinda like a poor man's "Beneath". Since
that was cut, maybe this was a replacement. I guess it got cut for
time. The astros abandon the cart at Bill's farm and Lee questions him
about it. It was filmed. Jeff

<.html

I've only seen one version of a script for The Interrogation, so it
must be the one on Hunter's site--well worth a look.The Zaius/Urko
Sauna scene would have been very funny (in an episode fullof humour)
as Zaius summons Urko in, whilst poor old Urko is still in full
uniform, sweating and even more irritable than usual.Of all
the 'missing scenes' that's the one I'd love to have been filmed and
shown.John, SCROLLS.

>
> No, John sent me a script scene. It wasn't filmed. Booth Colman

told me he'd never heard of it, so it didn't make it past the script
stage. Where John got it, I don't know.

> It was filmed. Bill's a friend of mine and I believe him. He and

Lee took pictures of each other.

> I guess they didn't care that he sounded like Roddy (for the

character he probably didn't imitate Roddy). It became an issue when
Bill auditioned to do the voice of Cornelius on the cartoon. They
felt Roddy would sue because it sounded too much like him (Roddy said
later he wouldn't have sued). Jeff

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: aboro3085
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 3:54 PM
> Subject: [POTA] Re: TV Series
>
>
> About this Urko/Zaius scene: Are you saying that it was filmed

and John

> sent you "video" of this missing bit? If so, will it be provided

to Mr.

> Goatley to distribute on any future DVDs he may compile?
>
> And, if the Urko/Zaius scene was cut, whose to say that Bill's

scene

> wasn't entirely scrapped too and they just went with what we have

now?

> (And by that, I mean entirely scrapped, not just filmed and left

on the

> cutting room floor.)
>
> You may say it was filmed, and he may say it was filmed as well.
> Perhaps it was, but I remain very cautious about believing it for

these

> reasons: If Bill was indeed in the episode, why didn't he have

any

> photos taken? His "Cornelius" days are well documented, as there

are

> professional photos of he and Paula in various ape-incarntions.

If he

> was on the APES set, why are there no photos taken of him as

there are

> of Mr. Delano?
>
> And, another question arises: There are many who claim that Bill

not

> only could mimic Roddy's voice, but that he actually LOOKED like

Mc

> Dowall did as an ape. If that is all true, why would the casting
> department even consider somebody who would be mistaken for the

star of

> their show?
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> Yeah, Bill Blake and Lee Delano filmed a scene for "The
> Interrogation". John Roche sent me a cut scene from the ep, a

sauna

> scene between Urko and Zauis, kinda like a poor man's "Beneath".

Since

> that was cut, maybe this was a replacement. I guess it got cut

for

> time. The astros abandon the cart at Bill's farm and Lee

questions him

> about it. It was filmed. Jeff
>

His sounding like Roddy wasn't my argument. I know he can
change/mimic others so his voice could have been his own or some
variant of it, not a Roddy imitation.

If youll reread what I posted, I asked why the casting dept. would
even cast somebody who LOOKED like the star of their show?

And if he and Lee took pictures of each other, why haven't any of
Blake appeared? Surely if he has snapshots of Lee, he'd also have at
least a few of the shots Delano snapped of him?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> No, John sent me a script scene. It wasn't filmed. Booth Colman
told me he'd never heard of it, so it didn't make it past the script
stage. Where John got it, I don't know.
> It was filmed. Bill's a friend of mine and I believe him. He and
Lee took pictures of each other.
> I guess they didn't care that he sounded like Roddy (for the
character he probably didn't imitate Roddy). It became an issue when
Bill auditioned to do the voice of Cornelius on the cartoon. They
felt Roddy would sue because it sounded too much like him (Roddy said
later he wouldn't have sued). Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: aboro3085
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 3:54 PM
> Subject: [POTA] Re: TV Series
>
>
> About this Urko/Zaius scene: Are you saying that it was filmed
and John
> sent you "video" of this missing bit? If so, will it be provided
to Mr.
> Goatley to distribute on any future DVDs he may compile?
>
> And, if the Urko/Zaius scene was cut, whose to say that Bill's
scene
> wasn't entirely scrapped too and they just went with what we have
now?
> (And by that, I mean entirely scrapped, not just filmed and left
on the
> cutting room floor.)
>
> You may say it was filmed, and he may say it was filmed as well.
> Perhaps it was, but I remain very cautious about believing it for
these
> reasons: If Bill was indeed in the episode, why didn't he have
any
> photos taken? His "Cornelius" days are well documented, as there
are
> professional photos of he and Paula in various ape-incarntions.
If he
> was on the APES set, why are there no photos taken of him as
there are
> of Mr. Delano?
>
> And, another question arises: There are many who claim that Bill
not
> only could mimic Roddy's voice, but that he actually LOOKED like
Mc
> Dowall did as an ape. If that is all true, why would the casting
> department even consider somebody who would be mistaken for the
star of
> their show?
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> Yeah, Bill Blake and Lee Delano filmed a scene for "The
> Interrogation". John Roche sent me a cut scene from the ep, a
sauna
> scene between Urko and Zauis, kinda like a poor man's "Beneath".
Since
> that was cut, maybe this was a replacement. I guess it got cut
for
> time. The astros abandon the cart at Bill's farm and Lee
questions him
> about it. It was filmed. Jeff
>

.html.htmlVote POTA!

http://dailyfilmdose.blogspot.com/2007/07/call-for-voters-fans-top-100-american.html"


**************************************
See what's free at http://www.aol.com.<.html<.html

Well, my posting about The Interrogation has turned into an
interrogation.I suspect the shots of Lee Delano may actually have
been taken by Bill (I prefer to call him 'Bill', not 'Blake', because
he's a true Apes legend) and I know that Bill lost an awful lot of
material, through no fault of his own, some time ago.As for casting,
I suspect that familiarity with make-up was important and, just as
Caesar doesn't look like Galen, Bill wouldn't have to look like
Roddy. John, Scrolls.

>
> His sounding like Roddy wasn't my argument. I know he can
> change/mimic others so his voice could have been his own or some
> variant of it, not a Roddy imitation.
>
> If youll reread what I posted, I asked why the casting dept. would
> even cast somebody who LOOKED like the star of their show?
>
> And if he and Lee took pictures of each other, why haven't any of
> Blake appeared? Surely if he has snapshots of Lee, he'd also have

at

> least a few of the shots Delano snapped of him?
>
>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> >
> > No, John sent me a script scene. It wasn't filmed. Booth Colman
> told me he'd never heard of it, so it didn't make it past the

script

> stage. Where John got it, I don't know.
> > It was filmed. Bill's a friend of mine and I believe him. He

and

> Lee took pictures of each other.
> > I guess they didn't care that he sounded like Roddy (for the
> character he probably didn't imitate Roddy). It became an issue

when

> Bill auditioned to do the voice of Cornelius on the cartoon. They
> felt Roddy would sue because it sounded too much like him (Roddy

said

> later he wouldn't have sued). Jeff
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: aboro3085
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2007 3:54 PM
> > Subject: [POTA] Re: TV Series
> >
> >
> > About this Urko/Zaius scene: Are you saying that it was filmed
> and John
> > sent you "video" of this missing bit? If so, will it be

provided

> to Mr.
> > Goatley to distribute on any future DVDs he may compile?
> >
> > And, if the Urko/Zaius scene was cut, whose to say that Bill's
> scene
> > wasn't entirely scrapped too and they just went with what we

have

> now?
> > (And by that, I mean entirely scrapped, not just filmed and

left

> on the
> > cutting room floor.)
> >
> > You may say it was filmed, and he may say it was filmed as

well.

> > Perhaps it was, but I remain very cautious about believing it

for

> these
> > reasons: If Bill was indeed in the episode, why didn't he have
> any
> > photos taken? His "Cornelius" days are well documented, as

there

> are
> > professional photos of he and Paula in various ape-incarntions.
> If he
> > was on the APES set, why are there no photos taken of him as
> there are
> > of Mr. Delano?
> >
> > And, another question arises: There are many who claim that

Bill

> not
> > only could mimic Roddy's voice, but that he actually LOOKED

like

> Mc
> > Dowall did as an ape. If that is all true, why would the

casting

> > department even consider somebody who would be mistaken for the
> star of
> > their show?
> >
> > --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@> wrote:
> > Yeah, Bill Blake and Lee Delano filmed a scene for "The
> > Interrogation". John Roche sent me a cut scene from the ep, a
> sauna
> > scene between Urko and Zauis, kinda like a poor

man's "Beneath".

> Since
> > that was cut, maybe this was a replacement. I guess it got cut
> for
> > time. The astros abandon the cart at Bill's farm and Lee
> questions him
> > about it. It was filmed. Jeff
> >
>

In my mind, Tim's POTA is a stand-alone movie, not a "remake". Even
the original POTA (1968) was a very big shift from the source (the
book). Basically, Tim's POTA is a new version of the source, not
POTA'68.

I think it's a pretty good movie. Yes, I didn't like the humour, but
it worked with the audience. The effects are great, and the story is
not that bad.


T.C.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, bobby smyth <cuddybuddy69@...> wrote:
>
> As far as older based age group..well i 'am 43,and am
> also part of the Star Trek Group on here,I agree Tim
> Burton 's effort will not get as much attention or
> long term support as the originals did..and yes I have
> seen the TB version..although on the whole I have
> never been a big fan of remakes..if a film is a
> ''classic'' then show that not some updated rehash
> ,which are often poorer in quality,and the impact they
> have..it is for this reason that I never went to see
> the new version of Black Christmas..okay ocassionally
> a remake does work..the new War Of The Worlds being
> one of the few...how do other memebers feel about
> remakes of established films?
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________

Oh yes, I know this topic might have been covered MILLION of times (we
POTA fans are getting very old!), but I was wondering:

What's wrong with Cornelius's hair in the THIRD one? I mean, they are
really not-so-much-different from those he had in BENEATH. Am I wrong?

Hhahahaha just playing a joke(?), let's assume that the Sinusoid (as I
call the time warp which brought the three and half Ape-O-Nauts in 1973
A.D.) affected his hair in the same way the cosmic storm whitened Reed
Richards's in the first 'Fantastic Four' movie. Far-fetched... but
wait! I'm Mr. Apecalypse Now. You know, I'm crazy.


T.C.

.html.htmlIn a message dated 7/10/2007 10:06:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, apecalypsenow@... writes:

What's wrong with Cornelius's hair in the THIRD one? I mean, they are
really not-so-much-different from those he had in BENEATH. Am I wrong?

No, you are not wrong.  They changed McDowall's (Cornelius's) wigs -- and not between BENEATH and ESCAPE, but within ESCAPE.  Look at the scene in ESCAPE in the chamber just before the two "Apeonauts" are taken out before the Presidential committee, where the apes are being advised to keep their answers simple.  Just as they're about to go out, McDowall turns his head and you can see that the back of his wig is still styled as it was in the first two films.  Later, I'm not sure when, it gets longer and has a little "Zira curl" to it.  I have no idea why they did that, but in general the apes wigs and facial wig pieces got cheaper starting with ESCAPE.

-- Rory

**************************************
See what's free at http://www.aol.com.<.html <.html

Was him gettin "terrestrial"? He just fashioned his hair in a
different manner. New environment, new life, new hair! ;)


T.C.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 7/10/2007 10:06:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> apecalypsenow@... writes:
>
>
> > What's wrong with Cornelius's hair in the THIRD one? I mean, they
are
> > really not-so-much-different from those he had in BENEATH. Am I
wrong?
> >
>
> No, you are not wrong. They changed McDowall's (Cornelius's) wigs -
- and not
> between BENEATH and ESCAPE, but within ESCAPE. Look at the scene
in ESCAPE
> in the chamber just before the two "Apeonauts" are taken out before
the
> Presidential committee, where the apes are being advised to keep
their answers
> simple. Just as they're about to go out, McDowall turns his head
and you can see
> that the back of his wig is still styled as it was in the first two
films.
> Later, I'm not sure when, it gets longer and has a little "Zira
curl" to it. I
> have no idea why they did that, but in general the apes wigs and
facial wig
> pieces got cheaper starting with ESCAPE.
>
> -- Rory
>
>
> **************************************
> See what's free at
> http://www.aol.com
>

The cut scene at the beginning of ESCAPE. It would have strengthened
the idea of APE-O-NAUTS coming from the future and the outer space.
All we see is that capsule floating on the sea, and that doesn't really
help the suspension of disbelief. Am I wrong?


T.C.

I was just watching CONQUEST and felt the same about the deleted opening sequence of the injured ape running away from his captors in that one. It would have added more sympathy for the apes-not that they needed any.
Bruce

-----Original Message-----
From: apecalypsenow <apecalypsenow@...>
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 6:30 pm
Subject: [POTA] What I really MISS...

I believe the bulk of the pre-crash footage for ESCAPE was shot, just
not finished up with SFX because they either A) Didn't have the funds
for it, or B)They decided to scrap the whole idea so they could have
the "shock" of the apes revealing themselves when taking off their
helmets.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: apecalypsenow <apecalypsenow@...>
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 6:30 pm
> Subject: [POTA] What I really MISS...
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The cut scene at the beginning of ESCAPE. It would have

strengthened

> the idea of APE-O-NAUTS coming from the future and the outer space.
> All we see is that capsule floating on the sea, and that doesn't

really

> help the suspension of disbelief. Am I wrong?
>
> T.C.
>
>
>
>
>
>

__________

I agree --the shock factor of taking off the helmets could have been
ruined if the earlier footage had stayed in.There are certainly
pictures of the 3 chimp-o-nauts in the ship, some of which are on
foreign posters, but I'm glad they went how they did--one of the
great, great cimema openiing scenes.John, Scrolls.

>
> I believe the bulk of the pre-crash footage for ESCAPE was shot,

just

> not finished up with SFX because they either A) Didn't have the

funds

> for it, or B)They decided to scrap the whole idea so they could

have

> the "shock" of the apes revealing themselves when taking off their
> helmets.
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: apecalypsenow <apecalypsenow@>
> > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 6:30 pm
> > Subject: [POTA] What I really MISS...
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > The cut scene at the beginning of ESCAPE. It would have
> strengthened
> > the idea of APE-O-NAUTS coming from the future and the outer

space.

> > All we see is that capsule floating on the sea, and that doesn't
> really
> > help the suspension of disbelief. Am I wrong?
> >
> > T.C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

__________

Another interesting 'lost' scene from the TV Series is in the early
version of The Horse Race, originally just 'The Race'. It starts with
the guys playing American football with a hunk of wood, to Galen's
irritation (obviously a soocer fan) and then the trio find a ruin
with some roller skates that Burke demonstrates.Galen gets bitten,
and the blacksmith, Martin, has a wife who is interesting in her own
right.The entirely unfilmed 'Hostage' script for the series could
have been the best episode of all, in my opinion.John, Scrolls.

>
> I agree --the shock factor of taking off the helmets could have

been

> ruined if the earlier footage had stayed in.There are certainly
> pictures of the 3 chimp-o-nauts in the ship, some of which are on
> foreign posters, but I'm glad they went how they did--one of the
> great, great cimema openiing scenes.John, Scrolls.
> >
> > I believe the bulk of the pre-crash footage for ESCAPE was shot,
> just
> > not finished up with SFX because they either A) Didn't have the
> funds
> > for it, or B)They decided to scrap the whole idea so they could
> have
> > the "shock" of the apes revealing themselves when taking off

their

> > helmets.
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: apecalypsenow <apecalypsenow@>
> > > To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 6:30 pm
> > > Subject: [POTA] What I really MISS...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The cut scene at the beginning of ESCAPE. It would have
> > strengthened
> > > the idea of APE-O-NAUTS coming from the future and the outer
> space.
> > > All we see is that capsule floating on the sea, and that

doesn't

> > really
> > > help the suspension of disbelief. Am I wrong?
> > >
> > > T.C.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

__________

.html

It could have been that Roddy talked them into it,

wanting a different look, or saying his hair would have

grown like Taylor's, etc . . . More likerly they didn't

want the back of his neck to show like it did in Planet.

 

<.html

HI,

I am interested in the Herald.  How much is a copy?

Thanks, Al

-----Original Message-----
From: James
Sent: Jul 6, 2007 11:17 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [POTA] Lesson from the Lawgiver/Spring Cleaning

It's Friday and a new LESSON FROM THE LAWGIVER is now available. Thanks to Elaine, Glen and everyone elsewho contributed.

To view the LESSON click on the banner on the Yahoo Home page or use this link: http://movies. groups.yahoo. com/group/ pota/files/ LFTL.htm.

Also, I am cleaning out my closets and still have several printed copies of the TV Series Herald available.

There are many new members since we first offered the Herald, so we are offering it again. PDF versions are available both Kass' (https://pota.v. kassidyrae. com/) and Hunter's https://pota. goatley.com/ websites.

Anyone who would like their own printed version, please email me offline for instructions.

Have a great weekend everybody!

Visit all the Group's special features including:

• The Internal Website  - Original POTA One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much more.
• POTA Locations  - The places where the POTA films were shot.
• The Art Gallery  - Works of POTA Art by our members.
• The Database Section  - POTA info ranging from Characters to Comics.
• The Photos Section  - POTA pics contributed by members.

Attachments :

Well I finally read this incredible document from end to end.  It's what.... nearly 113,000 words?


Truly an epic undertaking, and well done Richard and all those who contributed.  What it shows more than anything, is that the POTA Universe is vast and complex.

Making sense of the various paradoxes particularly of time travel and applying "best guess" entries was a good idea.  It also provides a great deal of information on further ways to explore the POTA verse (the Argentinian comics, and animated series - which I've never seen down here).

Regards Paul Mannering Email Support Coordinator Phone Assist
Tel: +64 3 962 3332	PO Box 203
Email: paul_mannering@...	Christchurch
Web: www.westpac.co.nz	New Zealand

 

The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you have received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. Nothing in this email designates an information system for the purposes of Section 11(a) of the New Zealand Electronic Transactions Act 2002. Westpac New Zealand Limited.

Works for me, as long as- like James said- it's from and established
member.

Speaking of buying & selling, I REALLY need a copy of the ESCAPE GN from
Malibu if anyone has an extra copy.


Chris L.

.html

>>These were great updates on the originals. (And there are

plans
underway to remake both of these remakes. 8-( ) 

>>As far as remakes go, there are very few I've ever thought were

worth
making: The Fly, The Thing, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory <<

>>it is for this reason that I never went to see the new version of

Black Christmas..okay ocassionally
a remake does work..the new War Of The Worlds being one of the few... <<<.html

>4. Richard Handley's "Hasslein Curve" timeline
>Posted by: "paul_mannering@..."
>paul_mannering@... darkininc
>Well I finally read this incredible document from end to end. It's
>what.... nearly 113,000 words?
>Truly an epic undertaking, and well done Richard and all those who
>contributed. What it shows more than anything, is that the POTA Universe
>is vast and complex.
>Making sense of the various paradoxes particularly of time travel and
>applying "best guess" entries was a good idea. It also provides a great
>deal of information on further ways to explore the POTA verse (the
>Argentinian comics, and animated series - which I've never seen down
>here).

Thanks, Paul--I appreciate the comments! That just made all the work
worth it. (Oh, and call me "Rich"...we're all friends here, and I
hate the name "Richard." Heh heh.)

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Rich Handley

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2007 5:14 AM

Subject: Re: [POTA] Digest Number 3696

>4. Richard Handley's "Hasslein Curve" timeline
>Posted by: "paul_mannering@ westpac.co. nz"
>paul_mannering@ westpac.co. nz darkininc
>Well I finally read this incredible document from end to end. It's
>what.... nearly 113,000 words?
>Truly an epic undertaking, and well done Richard and all those who
>contributed. What it shows more than anything, is that the POTA Universe
>is vast and complex.
>Making sense of the various paradoxes particularly of time travel and
>applying "best guess" entries was a good idea. It also provides a great
>deal of information on further ways to explore the POTA verse (the
>Argentinian comics, and animated series - which I've never seen down
>here).

Thanks, Paul--I appreciate the comments! That just made all the work
worth it. (Oh, and call me "Rich"...we' re all friends here, and I
hate the name "Richard." Heh heh.)

<.html

Rich,

Have you read my complex timeline(s)? I think you would like them so
much! It was a mammooth work, believe me. Not finished yet.

Can I contact you via mail? I've to talk with you about some theories
regarding the 'Hasslein Curve'... many thanks.


T.C.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Rich Handley <handleyr@...> wrote:
>
>
> >4. Richard Handley's "Hasslein Curve" timeline
> >Posted by: "paul_mannering@..."
> >paul_mannering@... darkininc
> >Well I finally read this incredible document from end to end. It's
> >what.... nearly 113,000 words?
> >Truly an epic undertaking, and well done Richard and all those who
> >contributed. What it shows more than anything, is that the POTA
Universe
> >is vast and complex.
> >Making sense of the various paradoxes particularly of time travel
and
> >applying "best guess" entries was a good idea. It also provides a
great
> >deal of information on further ways to explore the POTA verse (the
> >Argentinian comics, and animated series - which I've never seen
down
> >here).
>
>
> Thanks, Paul--I appreciate the comments! That just made all the
work
> worth it. (Oh, and call me "Rich"...we're all friends here, and I
> hate the name "Richard." Heh heh.)
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Terry Hoknes <hoknescards@...> wrote:

>
> hey where can I read this
> sounds great!!

<http://rhandley.0catch.com/POTA/>

Dave B

I hate to say this but due to life intruding on mixing, POTA is delayed
till next thursday... I am trying to keep up the 2 week releases but
work and family come first and of late my time with life has been more
filled than usual. Sorry for the inconvenience.

.html

>>I agree --the shock factor of taking off the helmets could have

been
ruined if the earlier footage had stayed in.There are certainly
pictures of the 3 chimp-o-nauts in the ship, some of which are on
foreign posters, but I'm glad they went how they did--one of the
great, great cimema openiing scenes. <<<.html

Personally, I would have liked to have seen such a scene included in
the film. But, I think it would have needed the talking, or at least
some music or something.

I only think they didn't include it because it was unfinished, and
perhaps they scrapped the whole idea anyway because they figured it
would have been overkill?

And, as far as the whole "shock" of the apes removing their helmets,
maybe it would have been anti-climactic if they had the ship interior
shots and then the reveal, or maybe it would have just been too drawn
out? For the casual viewer, I can see where the studio would have
just wanted to keep things moving along, because most people who seen
the films were just the public at large, not hardcore fans who'd like
the minutia.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Chris Lawless <lawford42@...> wrote:
>
> Do you suppose it could've worked if they kept the scene in but the
three
> characters didn't speak? For the first few minutes you'd be
wondering who
> the astronauts were, never suspecting it was the Apes who were
piloting
> the ship.
>
>
> Chris L.
>
>
>
> "shanter2002" <john@...> wrote:
>
> >>I agree --the shock factor of taking off the helmets could have
been
> ruined if the earlier footage had stayed in.There are certainly
> pictures of the 3 chimp-o-nauts in the ship, some of which are on
> foreign posters, but I'm glad they went how they did--one of the
> great, great cimema openiing scenes. <<
>

Given the high quality of existing episodes , Bill, it will definitely
be worth waiting for.John, Scrolls.

>
> I hate to say this but due to life intruding on mixing, POTA is

delayed

> till next thursday... I am trying to keep up the 2 week releases but
> work and family come first and of late my time with life has been

more

> filled than usual. Sorry for the inconvenience.
>

Thank you all for your patience and kind words.

On 7/13/07, shanter2002 <john@...> wrote:

Given the high quality of existing episodes , Bill, it will definitely
be worth waiting for.John, Scrolls.
>
> I hate to say this but due to life intruding on mixing, POTA is
delayed
> till next thursday... I am trying to keep up the 2 week releases but
> work and family come first and of late my time with life has been
more
> filled than usual. Sorry for the inconvenience.
>

--
Bill Hollweg
Have Sword...
     Will Slay...
        Barbarian in need of Ale...
Check out my fantasy Audio Drama-
Bill Hollweg
Lord of Design for BrokenSea Audio
www.brokensea.com
The Saga of the Grog and Gryphon @
http://www.brokensea.com and
http://www.westlakefilms.co.uk
Planet of the Apes at
http://www.brokensea.com and
Ulysses-Galactic Guides & Bounty Hunting
http://www.brokensea.com and

.html

Folks you just have to see this! It made me laugh I think you will too:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Mego-Cornelius-Planet-of-the-Apes-8-figure-doll_W0QQitemZ250141965007QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1169QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

 

Bruce

<.html

It's Cap'n Cornelius!

--- stenosaurus@... wrote:

> Folks you just have to see this! It made me laugh I
> think you will too:
>
>

_http://cgi.ebay.com/Mego-Cornelius-Planet-of-the-Apes-8-figure-doll_W0QQitemZ

>

250141965007QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1169QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem_

>
>

(http://cgi.ebay.com/Mego-Cornelius-Planet-of-the-Apes-8-figure-doll_W0QQitemZ2501

>

41965007QQihZ015QQcategoryZ1169QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

>
>
>
> Bruce
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak
> peak of the all-new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>

________________________

Attachments :

.html

That's why I wish that, one of these days, FOX could place those deleted scenes--not only in ESCAPE and CONQUEST, but also BENEATH--on possibly an anniversary edition DVD.   Zach        -------Original Message-------   From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 07/10/07 19:51:54 To: pota@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [POTA] What I really MISS...   I was just watching CONQUEST and felt the same about the deleted opening sequence of the injured ape running away from his captors in that one. It would have added more sympathy for the apes-not that they needed any. Bruce -----Original Message----- From: apecalypsenow <apecalypsenow@ yahoo.com> To: pota@yahoogroups. com Sent: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 6:30 pm Subject: [POTA] What I really MISS... The cut scene at the beginning of ESCAPE. It would have strengthened the idea of APE-O-NAUTS coming from the future and the outer space. All we see is that capsule floating on the sea, and that doesn't really help the suspension of disbelief. Am I wrong? T.C. AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 7/14/2007 10:50:46 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Zasco1957@... writes:

That's why I wish that, one of these days, FOX could place those deleted scenes--not only in ESCAPE and CONQUEST, but also BENEATH--on possibly an anniversary edition DVD.

 

Zach     

 

It would probably be on a separate disc not added to the full-length film but at least we'd get to see the scenes.

Bruce

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: stenosaurus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 2:16 PM

Subject: Re: [POTA] What I really MISS...

In a message dated 7/14/2007 10:50:46 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Zasco1957@aol. com writes:

That's why I wish that, one of these days, FOX could place those deleted scenes--not only in ESCAPE and CONQUEST, but also BENEATH--on possibly an anniversary edition DVD.

 

Zach     

 

It would probably be on a separate disc not added to the full-length film but at least we'd get to see the scenes.

Bruce

---

Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 7/14/2007 3:02:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, franierrph@... writes:

don't forget about the extended footage in the original when Taylor is attempting his escape before he's recaptured in the net before uttering his first words to the apes

There are other scenes snipped, too...Taylor in the museum was longer, there was a scene (or at least a still shot) of the astronauts under a tent in the desert, also when Cornelius and Zira get stopped by the Gorillas as they make their escape, and was the 'pregnant Nova' scene filmed?

 

Bruce 

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: stenosaurus@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 3:24 PM

Subject: Re: [POTA] What I really MISS...

In a message dated 7/14/2007 3:02:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, franierrph@verizon. net writes:

don't forget about the extended footage in the original when Taylor is attempting his escape before he's recaptured in the net before uttering his first words to the apes

There are other scenes snipped, too...Taylor in the museum was longer, there was a scene (or at least a still shot) of the astronauts under a tent in the desert, also when Cornelius and Zira get stopped by the Gorillas as they make their escape, and was the 'pregnant Nova' scene filmed?

 

Bruce 

---

Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 7/14/2007 4:08:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, franierrph@... writes:

not sure if these scenes were actually shot or not.  I've seen the picture of the gorilla stopping zira & lucius as they escape with Taylor & nova in the wagon,  but perhaps that was just a publicity shot..in regards to the pregnant nova,  it was one of the original lobby cards produced for the film

----- Original Message -----

From: stenosaurus@ aol.com

To: pota@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 3:24 PM

Subject: Re: [POTA] What I really MISS...

In a message dated 7/14/2007 3:02:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, franierrph@verizon. net writes:

don't forget about the extended footage in the original when Taylor is attempting his escape before he's recaptured in the net before uttering his first words to the apes

There are other scenes snipped, too...Taylor in the museum was longer, there was a scene (or at least a still shot) of the astronauts under a tent in the desert, also when Cornelius and Zira get stopped by the Gorillas as they make their escape, and was the 'pregnant Nova' scene filmed?

 

Bruce 

The wagon scene was in the first set of APES cards so I think that one was filmed. The pregnancy was in the original lobby cards as you said and originally in the Marvel APES movie adaptation but changed just before publication so there's a chance the scene was at least started..

 

Bruce

<.html

.html <.html

Attachments :

.html

Bruce, according to Roddy McDowall on the BEHIND disc, the sequence with the pregnant Nova was actually shot, but it was later deleted.   Zach      -------Original Message-------   From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 07/14/07 15:08:21 To: pota@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [POTA] What I really MISS...   not sure if these scenes were actually shot or not.  I've seen the picture of the gorilla stopping zira & lucius as they escape with Taylor & nova in the wagon,  but perhaps that was just a publicity shot..in regards to the pregnant nova,  it was one of the original lobby cards produced for the film ----- Original Message ----- From: stenosaurus@ aol.com To: pota@yahoogroups. com Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [POTA] What I really MISS... In a message dated 7/14/2007 3:02:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, franierrph@verizon. net writes: don't forget about the extended footage in the original when Taylor is attempting his escape before he's recaptured in the net before uttering his first words to the apes There are other scenes snipped, too...Taylor in the museum was longer, there was a scene (or at least a still shot) of the astronauts under a tent in the desert, also when Cornelius and Zira get stopped by the Gorillas as they make their escape, and was the 'pregnant Nova' scene filmed?   Bruce  Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.

<.html

Would Burton do a good job NOW?

I have to say no. IMO Burton is a hack. He always was a hack and will probably always be a hack. The whole auteur act is just a con job to obscure that he is a hack. The only game he is on top of right now is that he's at the pinnacle of hackdom. "Big Fish" was mediocre at best and "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" was another pale remake of a far superior original.

If you want to lay the disaster that was POTA 2001 at FOX's doorstep, the only mistake they made was to hire a hack director like Burton instead of a good director. Burton's problem was that he never understood what POTA was about. He thought it was about apes.

They say the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over again and expect a different result. If Burton ever gets his hack hands on POTA again, he'll bury it for sure. I'd rather see a good junior director who has respect for the concept take over. Remember at the time Franklin Schaffner was considered a junior director when he directed the original POTA.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> I was thinking today that Tim Burton is at the top of his game right now. Since POTA he had an artistic success with "Big Fish", and did solid work with "Willy Wonka" and "Corpse Bride". Now he's really taking a chance with the musical "Sweeney Todd" for this Christmas. Of course, that's just my opinion but many others seem to agree. He's still Burton and not everyone digs his movies but he seemed to learn some lessons from POTA.
> I'm writing about Fox for "Ape Chronicles" and I saw Fox's latest underwritten tentpole, "Fantastic Four 2" for research (just so I can say it sucks with conviction). POTA is at Fox's mercy and they seem to be the problem if you look at their recent big movies ("I, Robot", "Eragon", etc. etc.). I've concluded Fox is the problem, not Burton. They need a strong director and I think Burton could stand up to them today, six years later. And he's got some box office spunk these days. But Fox chewed him up and spit him out, so I don't think he'd return. IF they do another one they'll probably get another yes man director and continue their undistinguished streak. (Why Burton? Because no other worthy director is going to touch it. Either Burton fixes it or it goes down to a junior director).
> The 7/10/07 "Hollywood Reporter" did an update on superhero movies and said another "Fantastic Four" movie is in question because the current one isn't doing well. They're more interested in a "Silver Surfer" movie, as well as movies for "Wolverine" (next year) and "Magneto". But they're running out of franchises. There's not going to be another "Eragon", even though it's a book series. The producer said there's no "X-Men 4" in the works. And Fox won't be getting any more Marvel properties, which aren't available (Marvel's keeping them for itself). Fox is also remaking "Day the Earth Stood Still" for next year. But could it be it'll be time to look at POTA again? Enough time has passed that people don't even talk about the remake anymore. Culturally, the original continues to be referenced. Let's go, Fox! Jeff
>

> If you want to lay the disaster that was POTA 2001 at FOX's doorstep,
> the only mistake they made was to hire a hack director like Burton
> instead of a good director.

That's because the good directors (like Frank Darabont) turned it down
because the script was crap and Fox didn't want to wait to make it.

.html.htmlIn a message dated 7/14/2007 11:38:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Fox is also remaking "Day the Earth Stood Still" for next year. But could it be it'll be time to look at POTA again? Enough time has passed that people don't even talk about the remake anymore. Culturally, the original continues to be referenced. Let's go, Fox!   Jeff

The problems -- many of them -- with POTA2001 were mostly the stupid mindset of the studio executives.  Burton was just collecting a paycheck.  He doesn't even put the thing on his resume.

Anyway, the modern Fox, like all the major studios now, are run by marketing executives who don't know good scripts from bad, AND THE SCRIPT IS THE THING!  If they don't get the script right, no director is gonna make it right.

-- Rory


**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour<.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 7/15/2007 11:55:37 AM Eastern Standard Time, JamesA1102@... writes:

I have to say no. IMO Burton is a hack. He always was a hack and will probably always be a hack.

Burton sucks!

-- Rory

**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour<.html <.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 7/15/2007 1:27:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, goathunter@... writes:

That's because the good directors (like Frank Darabont) turned it down
because the script was crap and Fox didn't want to wait to make it.

Like I said, THE SCRIPT IS THE THING.  Going all the way back to the Terry Hayes script -- THE CONCEPT THEY WANTED SUCKED.  They didn't have a clue what made the original work, or understand the Boulle novel, AND THEY WEREN'T INTERESTED IN EVEN TRYING!.

-- Rory

**************************************
Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour<.html <.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: James

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 8:39 AM

Subject: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

Would Burton do a good job NOW?

I have to say no. IMO Burton is a hack. He always was a hack and will probably always be a hack. The whole auteur act is just a con job to obscure that he is a hack. The only game he is on top of right now is that he's at the pinnacle of hackdom. "Big Fish" was mediocre at best and "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" was another pale remake of a far superior original.

If you want to lay the disaster that was POTA 2001 at FOX's doorstep, the only mistake they made was to hire a hack director like Burton instead of a good director. Burton's problem was that he never understood what POTA was about. He thought it was about apes.

They say the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over again and expect a different result. If Burton ever gets his hack hands on POTA again, he'll bury it for sure. I'd rather see a good junior director who has respect for the concept take over. Remember at the time Franklin Schaffner was considered a junior director when he directed the original POTA.

--- In pota@yahoogroups. com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> I was thinking today that Tim Burton is at the top of his game right now. Since POTA he had an artistic success with "Big Fish", and did solid work with "Willy Wonka" and "Corpse Bride". Now he's really taking a chance with the musical "Sweeney Todd" for this Christmas. Of course, that's just my opinion but many others seem to agree. He's still Burton and not everyone digs his movies but he seemed to learn some lessons from POTA.
> I'm writing about Fox for "Ape Chronicles" and I saw Fox's latest underwritten tentpole, "Fantastic Four 2" for research (just so I can say it sucks with conviction). POTA is at Fox's mercy and they seem to be the problem if you look at their recent big movies ("I, Robot", "Eragon", etc. etc.). I've concluded Fox is the problem, not Burton. They need a strong director and I think Burton could stand up to them today, six years later. And he's got some box office spunk these days. But Fox chewed him up and spit him out, so I don't think he'd return. IF they do another one they'll probably get another yes man director and continue their undistinguished streak. (Why Burton? Because no other worthy director is going to touch it. Either Burton fixes it or it goes down to a junior director).
> The 7/10/07 "Hollywood Reporter" did an update on superhero movies and said another "Fantastic Four" movie is in question because the current one isn't doing well. They're more interested in a "Silver Surfer" movie, as well as movies for "Wolverine" (next year) and "Magneto". But they're running out of franchises. There's not going to be another "Eragon", even though it's a book series. The producer said there's no "X-Men 4" in the works. And Fox won't be getting any more Marvel properties, which aren't available (Marvel's keeping them for itself). Fox is also remaking "Day the Earth Stood Still" for next year. But could it be it'll be time to look at POTA again? Enough time has passed that people don't even talk about the remake anymore. Culturally, the original continues to be referenced. Let's go, Fox! Jeff
>

<.html

Attachments :

.html

You're welcome, my Apester friend.   Here's what I would like to see featured on future APES discs, if at all possible:   PLANET   The scenes showing Nova's pregnancy The scenes with Taylor's escape through Ape City and the longer museum sequence The scene where Zira and Lucius' cart was stopped by the gorilla patrol on the outskirts of Ape City   BENEATH   The Grand Army of the Apes going through the tunnels, eventually emerging from the main one in front of the ruined Public Library...walking past the Stock Exchange, and encountering the three mutants--Caspay, Adiposo (the Fat Man), and the Verger of the Cathedral running for cover at the wrecked Radio City Music Hall marquee (and getting gunned down by orders of Ursus) The longer dialogue between Taylor and Zaius at the conclusion   ESCAPE   The snipped spaceship sequences at the beginning, as far as I'm concerned, this would have made a more complete movie   CONQUEST   The edited portion of the ape running away and getting shot by the guard at the beginning   BATTLE   On the latest reissue of this movie, several scenes had finally been added that were deleted from previous issues, the showing of the Alpha-Omega bomb, among others     Are there any other scenes that I may be overlooking, friends?   Zach    -------Original Message-------   From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 07/15/07 10:30:30 To: pota@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [POTA] What I really MISS...   Thanks I wasn't sure about that one. I WANNA SEE IT! Bruce   -----Original Message----- From: Zach S <Zasco1957@...> To: pota@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 8:39 am Subject: Re: [POTA] What I really MISS... Bruce, according to Roddy McDowall on the BEHIND disc, the sequence with the pregnant Nova was actually shot, but it was later deleted.   Zach      -------Original Message----- --   From: pota@yahoogroups. com Date: 07/14/07 15:08:21 To: pota@yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [POTA] What I really MISS...   not sure if these scenes were actually shot or not.  I've seen the picture of the gorilla stopping zira & lucius as they escape with Taylor & nova in the wagon,  but perhaps that was just a publicity shot..in regards to the pregnant nova,  it was one of the original lobby cards produced for the film ----- Original Message ----- From: stenosaurus@ aol.com To: pota@yahoogroups. com Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2007 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [POTA] What I really MISS... In a message dated 7/14/2007 3:02:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, franierrph@verizon. net writes: don't forget about the extended footage in the original when Taylor is attempting his escape before he's recaptured in the net before uttering his first words to the apes There are other scenes snipped, too...Taylor in the museum was longer, there was a scene (or at least a still shot) of the astronauts under a tent in the desert, also when Cornelius and Zira get stopped by the Gorillas as they make their escape, and was the 'pregnant Nova' scene filmed?   Bruce  Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.

<.html

I'm kind of sitting on the fence on this one. I was all for Burton
helming a remake of Apes, I thought he would deliver something that,
even though inevitably lacking a decent script, would be visually
stunning and possess moments that would live on in the memory, the way
his previous movies had.

But he didn't and it only lives on for all the wrong reasons and I
don't think Fox is entirely to blame, All parties involved had no idea
what made APES work which is no surprise because we can't always agree
either!

Sure, FOX has a despicable history for underestimating Apes and
Baker's make-up was barely adequate when it ought to have been as
equally revolutionary as Chambers' was... but in my eyes, what damned
Burton was a comment he made in the aftermath of the release in
reference to the way in which the movie was being torn to shreds by
the fans and critics - he said (something like) 'It doesn't pay to
over-analyze, at the end of the day it's just a movie about talking
monkeys".

I'm not sure where he said that, it may even be on the snore-a-thon
that passes for a commentary on the DVD but I can't imagine Schaffner
(or even Post, Taylor, or Thompson) felt the same.

Dave

I think the only way to go for another POTA (especially Conquest) would be the '300' route.

I've never enjoyed a Burton movie, but that may be my loss, I don't
know.I think that the 'fantasy world' approach was ill conceived from
day one--we lost the unicorns and dinosaurs things, thank heavens,
but the other worldly feel didn't allow us to connect with the Apes
themselves.The original was grounded in a feeling of reality and
total respect for the ideas.Someone like Ridley Scott could tap into
that, like Donner did with Superman. I would be really, really
disappointed if Burton did another Apes because he's just not of the
serious mindset that Apes needs.Apes is its own genre and it needs
solid guys directing who aren't bigger than the movie itself.A Silver
Surfer movie will, like every comic book he's ever had, die on it's
arse so badly it could bring studios down.The character just aint
interesting enough to build a movie around.John.

>
> I was thinking today that Tim Burton is at the top of his game

right now. Since POTA he had an artistic success with "Big Fish", and
did solid work with "Willy Wonka" and "Corpse Bride". Now he's really
taking a chance with the musical "Sweeney Todd" for this Christmas.
Of course, that's just my opinion but many others seem to agree. He's
still Burton and not everyone digs his movies but he seemed to learn
some lessons from POTA.

> I'm writing about Fox for "Ape Chronicles" and I saw Fox's latest

underwritten tentpole, "Fantastic Four 2" for research (just so I can
say it sucks with conviction). POTA is at Fox's mercy and they seem
to be the problem if you look at their recent big movies ("I,
Robot", "Eragon", etc. etc.). I've concluded Fox is the problem, not
Burton. They need a strong director and I think Burton could stand up
to them today, six years later. And he's got some box office spunk
these days. But Fox chewed him up and spit him out, so I don't think
he'd return. IF they do another one they'll probably get another yes
man director and continue their undistinguished streak. (Why Burton?
Because no other worthy director is going to touch it. Either Burton
fixes it or it goes down to a junior director).

> The 7/10/07 "Hollywood Reporter" did an update on superhero

movies and said another "Fantastic Four" movie is in question because
the current one isn't doing well. They're more interested in
a "Silver Surfer" movie, as well as movies for "Wolverine" (next
year) and "Magneto". But they're running out of franchises. There's
not going to be another "Eragon", even though it's a book series. The
producer said there's no "X-Men 4" in the works. And Fox won't be
getting any more Marvel properties, which aren't available (Marvel's
keeping them for itself). Fox is also remaking "Day the Earth Stood
Still" for next year. But could it be it'll be time to look at POTA
again? Enough time has passed that people don't even talk about the
remake anymore. Culturally, the original continues to be referenced.
Let's go, Fox! Jeff

>

Attachments :

.html

You said it.  I still am hoping that it'll be considered.   Zach      -------Original Message-------   From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 07/14/07 13:24:45 To: pota@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [POTA] What I really MISS...   In a message dated 7/14/2007 10:50:46 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Zasco1957@aol. com writes: That's why I wish that, one of these days, FOX could place those deleted scenes--not only in ESCAPE and CONQUEST, but also BENEATH--on possibly an anniversary edition DVD.   Zach        It would probably be on a separate disc not added to the full-length film but at least we'd get to see the scenes. Bruce Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.

<.html

Attachments :

Is that footage 'finished' or is it still in the 'raw' stage?

Zach S <Zasco1957@...> wrote:

You said it.  I still am hoping that it'll be considered.   Zach      -------Original Message----- --   From: pota@yahoogroups. com Date: 07/14/07 13:24:45 To: pota@yahoogroups. com Subject: Re: [POTA] What I really MISS...   In a message dated 7/14/2007 10:50:46 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Zasco1957@aol. com writes: That's why I wish that, one of these days, FOX could place those deleted scenes--not only in ESCAPE and CONQUEST, but also BENEATH--on possibly an anniversary edition DVD.   Zach        It would probably be on a separate disc not added to the full-length film but at least we'd get to see the scenes. Bruce Get a sneak peak of the all-new AOL.com.

---

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Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

That would be an interesting take on things.  That 'remake' project was kicked around at Fox for quite a few years before anyone did anything with it.  If I am correct, people like Arnold S and George C were attached to the project at one time as well as directors like Chris Columbus.  I worked at a movie theatre when that film opened and it did very well its first weekend, but no one had any interest in seeing it again (but I saw it 3 times) and the merchandising campaign flopped as well.  I don't see any reason why we couldn't see more stories in that fell into place after the original 5. 

rkid67 <rkid67@...> wrote:

I think the only way to go for another POTA (especially Conquest) would be the '300' route.

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----- Original Message -----

From: Dave B

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:38 PM

Subject: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

I'm kind of sitting on the fence on this one. I was all for Burton
helming a remake of Apes, I thought he would deliver something that,
even though inevitably lacking a decent script, would be visually
stunning and possess moments that would live on in the memory, the way
his previous movies had.

But he didn't and it only lives on for all the wrong reasons and I
don't think Fox is entirely to blame, All parties involved had no idea
what made APES work which is no surprise because we can't always agree
either!

Sure, FOX has a despicable history for underestimating Apes and
Baker's make-up was barely adequate when it ought to have been as
equally revolutionary as Chambers' was... but in my eyes, what damned
Burton was a comment he made in the aftermath of the release in
reference to the way in which the movie was being torn to shreds by
the fans and critics - he said (something like) 'It doesn't pay to
over-analyze, at the end of the day it's just a movie about talking
monkeys".

I'm not sure where he said that, it may even be on the snore-a-thon
that passes for a commentary on the DVD but I can't imagine Schaffner
(or even Post, Taylor, or Thompson) felt the same.

Dave

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: shanter2002

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 3:44 AM

Subject: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

I've never enjoyed a Burton movie, but that may be my loss, I don't
know.I think that the 'fantasy world' approach was ill conceived from
day one--we lost the unicorns and dinosaurs things, thank heavens,
but the other worldly feel didn't allow us to connect with the Apes
themselves.The original was grounded in a feeling of reality and
total respect for the ideas.Someone like Ridley Scott could tap into
that, like Donner did with Superman. I would be really, really
disappointed if Burton did another Apes because he's just not of the
serious mindset that Apes needs.Apes is its own genre and it needs
solid guys directing who aren't bigger than the movie itself.A Silver
Surfer movie will, like every comic book he's ever had, die on it's
arse so badly it could bring studios down.The character just aint
interesting enough to build a movie around.John.
>
> I was thinking today that Tim Burton is at the top of his game
right now. Since POTA he had an artistic success with "Big Fish", and
did solid work with "Willy Wonka" and "Corpse Bride". Now he's really
taking a chance with the musical "Sweeney Todd" for this Christmas.
Of course, that's just my opinion but many others seem to agree. He's
still Burton and not everyone digs his movies but he seemed to learn
some lessons from POTA.
> I'm writing about Fox for "Ape Chronicles" and I saw Fox's latest
underwritten tentpole, "Fantastic Four 2" for research (just so I can
say it sucks with conviction). POTA is at Fox's mercy and they seem
to be the problem if you look at their recent big movies ("I,
Robot", "Eragon", etc. etc.). I've concluded Fox is the problem, not
Burton. They need a strong director and I think Burton could stand up
to them today, six years later. And he's got some box office spunk
these days. But Fox chewed him up and spit him out, so I don't think
he'd return. IF they do another one they'll probably get another yes
man director and continue their undistinguished streak. (Why Burton?
Because no other worthy director is going to touch it. Either Burton
fixes it or it goes down to a junior director).
> The 7/10/07 "Hollywood Reporter" did an update on superhero
movies and said another "Fantastic Four" movie is in question because
the current one isn't doing well. They're more interested in
a "Silver Surfer" movie, as well as movies for "Wolverine" (next
year) and "Magneto". But they're running out of franchises. There's
not going to be another "Eragon", even though it's a book series. The
producer said there's no "X-Men 4" in the works. And Fox won't be
getting any more Marvel properties, which aren't available (Marvel's
keeping them for itself). Fox is also remaking "Day the Earth Stood
Still" for next year. But could it be it'll be time to look at POTA
again? Enough time has passed that people don't even talk about the
remake anymore. Culturally, the original continues to be referenced.
Let's go, Fox! Jeff
>

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Shane Miller

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 5:40 AM

Subject: Re: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

That would be an interesting take on things.  That 'remake' project was kicked around at Fox for quite a few years before anyone did anything with it.  If I am correct, people like Arnold S and George C were attached to the project at one time as well as directors like Chris Columbus.  I worked at a movie theatre when that film opened and it did very well its first weekend, but no one had any interest in seeing it again (but I saw it 3 times) and the merchandising campaign flopped as well.  I don't see any reason why we couldn't see more stories in that fell into place after the original 5. 

rkid67 <rkid67@yahoo. com> wrote:

I think the only way to go for another POTA (especially Conquest) would be the '300' route.

---

Get the Yahoo! toolbar and be alerted to new email wherever you're surfing.

<.html

Anybody else transfer their ape collection to their iPod yet?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@...> wrote:
>
> what damned Burton was a comment he made in the aftermath of the release in
> reference to the way in which the movie was being torn to shreds by
> the fans and critics - he said (something like) 'It doesn't pay to
> over-analyze, at the end of the day it's just a movie about talking
> monkeys".
>

I think that says it all.

I don't care how much clout the guy has. He is just a hack who doesn't understand or respect the concept.

Half-life-sized Statue of Liberty head used in the first film:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230152977297


Bruce

The system hosting my PotA site is being relocated to a new
datacenter, and complications arose that have delayed the completion
of the move. Until that happens, I'm running a backup server that has
most of the PotA files, but not all of them. If you're looking for
something that's not found (some/most PDF files, for example), you'll
have to try again when the main system is back online. Hopefully
that'll happen sometime before Friday, July 20, 2007.

Hunter
------
Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/
goathunter@... http://www.goatley.com/hunter/

Also appearing in the enigmatic "Cloverfield" project trailer - the head of the Statue of Liberty goes rolling past.

 

stenosaurus@... Sent by: pota@yahoogroups.com 17/07/2007 11:48 a.m. Please respond to pota

To:        pota@yahoogroups.com         cc:                 Subject:        [POTA] Now THAT'S AN AUCTION!!!

Half-life-sized Statue of Liberty head used in the first film:

http://cgi.liveauctions.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230152977297


Bruce

---

AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.

The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you have received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. Nothing in this email designates an information system for the purposes of Section 11(a) of the New Zealand Electronic Transactions Act 2002. Westpac New Zealand Limited.

What is the concept?

(I can think of about 6 off the top of my head)

 

"James" <JamesA1102@...> Sent by: pota@yahoogroups.com 17/07/2007 08:53 a.m. Please respond to pota

To:        pota@yahoogroups.com         cc:                 Subject:        [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@...> wrote:

>
> what damned Burton was a comment he made in the aftermath of the release

in

> reference to the way in which the movie was being torn to shreds by
> the fans and critics - he said (something like) 'It doesn't pay to
> over-analyze, at the end of the day it's just a movie about talking
> monkeys".
>

I think that says it all.

I don't care how much clout the guy has. He is just a hack who doesn't understand or respect the concept.

The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you have received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. Nothing in this email designates an information system for the purposes of Section 11(a) of the New Zealand Electronic Transactions Act 2002. Westpac New Zealand Limited.

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: James

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 1:53 PM

Subject: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

--- In pota@yahoogroups. com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@ ...> wrote:
>
> what damned Burton was a comment he made in the aftermath of the release in
> reference to the way in which the movie was being torn to shreds by
> the fans and critics - he said (something like) 'It doesn't pay to
> over-analyze, at the end of the day it's just a movie about talking
> monkeys".
>

I think that says it all.

I don't care how much clout the guy has. He is just a hack who doesn't understand or respect the concept.

<.html

Attachments :

But surely Burton only let Fox "fiddle" him because he really didn't care for the concept or the story?

Compare the remake of POTA with something like the remake of King Kong.

POTA 2001 comes across as complete shite because the director has no personal vision or love of the project.

King Kong came across as a lavish and hugely detailed production (that suffered only from a lack of editing)  because it had always been the dream of the director to make this since he was a kid.

Regards Paul Mannering Email Support Coordinator Phone Assist
Tel: +64 3 962 3332	PO Box 203
Email: paul_mannering@...	Christchurch
Web: www.westpac.co.nz	New Zealand

 

"Jeff K." <veetus@...> Sent by: pota@yahoogroups.com 17/07/2007 12:23 P.M. Please respond to pota

To:        <pota@yahoogroups.com>         cc:                 Subject:        Re: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

  At least Burton saw them as talking monkeys. Fox saw them as the Flintstones! Producer Don Murphy said said of the script from the Oliver Stone era: "Terry (Hayes) wrote a "Terminator" and Fox wanted "The Flintstones".
  A decade before the film came out it's fate was already sealed. Adam Rifkin (POTA writer from 1988 - 1991): "(Fox wanted) a happy, harmonious ending between apes and humans, which I thought was a bad idea".
  Burton let Fox play him like a fiddle but I don't think he would today. He's learned his lesson.   Jeff
 
----- Original Message -----
From: James
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 1:53 PM
Subject: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@...> wrote:

>
> what damned Burton was a comment he made in the aftermath of the release

in

> reference to the way in which the movie was being torn to shreds by
> the fans and critics - he said (something like) 'It doesn't pay to
> over-analyze, at the end of the day it's just a movie about talking
> monkeys".
>

I think that says it all.

I don't care how much clout the guy has. He is just a hack who doesn't understand or respect the concept.

The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you have received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. Nothing in this email designates an information system for the purposes of Section 11(a) of the New Zealand Electronic Transactions Act 2002. Westpac New Zealand Limited.

Never saw that.

Bruce


-----Original Message-----
From: paul_mannering@...
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 7:53 pm
Subject: Re: [POTA] Now THAT'S AN AUCTION!!!

Attachments :

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: paul_mannering@...

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 5:55 PM

Subject: Re: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

But surely Burton only let Fox "fiddle" him because he really didn't care for the concept or the story?

Compare the remake of POTA with something like the remake of King Kong.

POTA 2001 comes across as complete shite because the director has no personal vision or love of the project.

King Kong came across as a lavish and hugely detailed production (that suffered only from a lack of editing)  because it had always been the dream of the director to make this since he was a kid.

Regards Paul Mannering Email Support Coordinator Phone Assist
Tel: +64 3 962 3332	PO Box 203
Email: paul_mannering@ westpac.co. nz	Christchurch
Web: www.westpac. co.nz	New Zealand

"Jeff K." <veetus@earthlink. net> Sent by: pota@yahoogroups. com 17/07/2007 12:23 P.M. Please respond to pota

To:        <pota@yahoogroups. com>         cc:                 Subject:        Re: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

  At least Burton saw them as talking monkeys. Fox saw them as the Flintstones! Producer Don Murphy said said of the script from the Oliver Stone era: "Terry (Hayes) wrote a "Terminator" and Fox wanted "The Flintstones".
  A decade before the film came out it's fate was already sealed. Adam Rifkin (POTA writer from 1988 - 1991): "(Fox wanted) a happy, harmonious ending between apes and humans, which I thought was a bad idea".
  Burton let Fox play him like a fiddle but I don't think he would today. He's learned his lesson.   Jeff
 
----- Original Message -----
From: James
To: pota@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 1:53 PM
Subject: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

--- In pota@yahoogroups. com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@ ...> wrote:
>
> what damned Burton was a comment he made in the aftermath of the release in
> reference to the way in which the movie was being torn to shreds by
> the fans and critics - he said (something like) 'It doesn't pay to
> over-analyze, at the end of the day it's just a movie about talking
> monkeys".
>

I think that says it all.

I don't care how much clout the guy has. He is just a hack who doesn't understand or respect the concept.

The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you have received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. Nothing in this email designates an information system for the purposes of Section 11(a) of the New Zealand Electronic Transactions Act 2002. Westpac New Zealand Limited.

<.html

Attachments :

Yet it's already been said that he didn't care for the film - because he said you can't over analyse a film about "talking monkeys."

 

"Jeff K." <veetus@...> Sent by: pota@yahoogroups.com 17/07/2007 01:17 P.M. Please respond to pota

To:        <pota@yahoogroups.com>         cc:                 Subject:        Re: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

  No, I think there's love for the subject somewhere in there. They had a bruising schedule and I think they were hoping to get it right in a sequel. Richard Zanuck said they couldn't do what they wanted because there wasn't time to reconceive. They had to go from the script they had.  Jeff
 
----- Original Message -----
From: paul_mannering@...
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

But surely Burton only let Fox "fiddle" him because he really didn't care for the concept or the story?

Compare the remake of POTA with something like the remake of King Kong.

POTA 2001 comes across as complete shite because the director has no personal vision or love of the project.

King Kong came across as a lavish and hugely detailed production (that suffered only from a lack of editing)  because it had always been the dream of the director to make this since he was a kid.

Regards Paul Mannering Email Support Coordinator Phone Assist
Tel: +64 3 962 3332	PO Box 203
Email: paul_mannering@...	Christchurch
Web: www.westpac.co.nz	New Zealand

"Jeff K." <veetus@...> Sent by: pota@yahoogroups.com 17/07/2007 12:23 P.M. Please respond to pota

To:        <pota@yahoogroups.com>        cc:                Subject:        Re: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

 At least Burton saw them as talking monkeys. Fox saw them as the Flintstones! Producer Don Murphy said said of the script from the Oliver Stone era: "Terry (Hayes) wrote a "Terminator" and Fox wanted "The Flintstones".
 A decade before the film came out it's fate was already sealed. Adam Rifkin (POTA writer from 1988 - 1991): "(Fox wanted) a happy, harmonious ending between apes and humans, which I thought was a bad idea".
 Burton let Fox play him like a fiddle but I don't think he would today. He's learned his lesson.   Jeff
 

----- Original Message -----
From:

James
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 1:53 PM
Subject: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@...> wrote:
>
> what damned Burton was a comment he made in the aftermath of the release in
> reference to the way in which the movie was being torn to shreds by
> the fans and critics - he said (something like) 'It doesn't pay to
> over-analyze, at the end of the day it's just a movie about talking
> monkeys".
>

I think that says it all.

I don't care how much clout the guy has. He is just a hack who doesn't understand or respect the concept.

The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you have received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. Nothing in this email designates an information system for the purposes of Section 11(a) of the New Zealand Electronic Transactions Act 2002. Westpac New Zealand Limited.

The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you have received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. Nothing in this email designates an information system for the purposes of Section 11(a) of the New Zealand Electronic Transactions Act 2002. Westpac New Zealand Limited.

Attachments :

If the script was so bad, why was it greenlighted in the first place? Surely they should have said - this isn't what we want, the project can't go ahead until we get the right script?

There are a lot of ways they could have done it - which wouldn't have been this bad.

 

"Jeff K." <veetus@...> Sent by: pota@yahoogroups.com 17/07/2007 01:17 P.M. Please respond to pota

To:        <pota@yahoogroups.com>         cc:                 Subject:        Re: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

  No, I think there's love for the subject somewhere in there. They had a bruising schedule and I think they were hoping to get it right in a sequel. Richard Zanuck said they couldn't do what they wanted because there wasn't time to reconceive. They had to go from the script they had.  Jeff
 
----- Original Message -----
From: paul_mannering@...
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 5:55 PM
Subject: Re: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

But surely Burton only let Fox "fiddle" him because he really didn't care for the concept or the story?

Compare the remake of POTA with something like the remake of King Kong.

POTA 2001 comes across as complete shite because the director has no personal vision or love of the project.

King Kong came across as a lavish and hugely detailed production (that suffered only from a lack of editing)  because it had always been the dream of the director to make this since he was a kid.

Regards Paul Mannering Email Support Coordinator Phone Assist
Tel: +64 3 962 3332	PO Box 203
Email: paul_mannering@...	Christchurch
Web: www.westpac.co.nz	New Zealand

"Jeff K." <veetus@...> Sent by: pota@yahoogroups.com 17/07/2007 12:23 P.M. Please respond to pota

To:        <pota@yahoogroups.com>        cc:                Subject:        Re: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

 At least Burton saw them as talking monkeys. Fox saw them as the Flintstones! Producer Don Murphy said said of the script from the Oliver Stone era: "Terry (Hayes) wrote a "Terminator" and Fox wanted "The Flintstones".
 A decade before the film came out it's fate was already sealed. Adam Rifkin (POTA writer from 1988 - 1991): "(Fox wanted) a happy, harmonious ending between apes and humans, which I thought was a bad idea".
 Burton let Fox play him like a fiddle but I don't think he would today. He's learned his lesson.   Jeff
 

----- Original Message -----
From:

James
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 1:53 PM
Subject: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@...> wrote:
>
> what damned Burton was a comment he made in the aftermath of the release in
> reference to the way in which the movie was being torn to shreds by
> the fans and critics - he said (something like) 'It doesn't pay to
> over-analyze, at the end of the day it's just a movie about talking
> monkeys".
>

I think that says it all.

I don't care how much clout the guy has. He is just a hack who doesn't understand or respect the concept.

The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you have received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. Nothing in this email designates an information system for the purposes of Section 11(a) of the New Zealand Electronic Transactions Act 2002. Westpac New Zealand Limited.

The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you have received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. Nothing in this email designates an information system for the purposes of Section 11(a) of the New Zealand Electronic Transactions Act 2002. Westpac New Zealand Limited.

It's not, or shouldn't be, 'just a film about talking monkeys' as Burton puts it. The original films were about holding up a mirror to our society to expose our mores and prejudices.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, paul_mannering@... wrote:
>
> What is the concept?
>
> (I can think of about 6 off the top of my head)
>

But the problem is he only saw them as talking monkeys. You can blame FOX all you want but they are just a group of nameless executives. Burton put his name on the film so it was ultimately his responsibilty. Now you can make all the excuses for him you want but many directors have had to work with a medicore script and an uncooperative studio but still turned out a good film. (Casablanca and the first Superman film are just 2 quick examples that come to mind.)

As far as him learning his lesson, that is highly speculative. I've never heard him make any statement like that or that he would do things differently if given the chance again. And I see no evidence in his recent work that he has in any way improved as a director.

 

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> At least Burton saw them as talking monkeys. Fox saw them as the Flintstones! Producer Don Murphy said said of the script from the Oliver Stone era: "Terry (Hayes) wrote a "Terminator" and Fox wanted "The Flintstones".
> A decade before the film came out it's fate was already sealed. Adam Rifkin (POTA writer from 1988 - 1991): "(Fox wanted) a happy, harmonious ending between apes and humans, which I thought was a bad idea".
> Burton let Fox play him like a fiddle but I don't think he would today. He's learned his lesson. Jeff
>

I agree with you James.  POTA did speak a lot about society and its faults and virtues.  Its more relevant now (with increasing secularism) than it ever was.

 

"James" <JamesA1102@...> Sent by: pota@yahoogroups.com 17/07/2007 02:29 P.M. Please respond to pota

To:        pota@yahoogroups.com         cc:                 Subject:        [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?

It's not, or shouldn't be, 'just a film about talking monkeys' as Burton puts it. The original films were about holding up a mirror to our society to expose our mores and prejudices.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, paul_mannering@... wrote:
>
> What is the concept?
>
> (I can think of about 6 off the top of my head)
>

The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you have received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender immediately and delete the message and any attachments. Nothing in this email designates an information system for the purposes of Section 11(a) of the New Zealand Electronic Transactions Act 2002. Westpac New Zealand Limited.

I recall your mentioning this awhile back, and when it was brought up
in the group, the general consensus was that it was never shot and
probably wasn't scripted either.

Can I ask what you're basing this scene's existence on?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Zach S" <Zasco1957@...> wrote:


> Here's what I would like to see featured on future APES discs, if
at all possible:


> BENEATH

The Grand Army of the Apes going through the tunnels, eventually
emerging from the main one in front of the ruined Public
Library...walking past the Stock Exchange, and encountering the three
mutants--Caspay, Adiposo (the Fat Man), and the
Verger of the Cathedral running for cover at the wrecked Radio City
Music Hall marquee (and getting gunned down by orders of Ursus)

Attachments :

.html

I still think that it would have made for a complete movie if that scene was kept in.   Zach      -------Original Message-------   From: pota@yahoogroups.com Date: 07/12/07 20:22:38 To: pota@yahoogroups.com Subject: [POTA] Re: What I really MISS...   Do you suppose it could've worked if they kept the scene in but the three characters didn't speak? For the first few minutes you'd be wondering who the astronauts were, never suspecting it was the Apes who were piloting the ship.     Chris L.       "shanter2002" <john@johnroche6. wanadoo.co. uk> wrote:   >>I agree --the shock factor of taking off the helmets could have been ruined if the earlier footage had stayed in.There are certainly pictures of the 3 chimp-o-nauts in the ship, some of which are on foreign posters, but I'm glad they went how they did--one of the great, great cimema openiing scenes. <<

<.html

.html.htmlIn a message dated 7/16/2007 8:53:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Producer Don Murphy said said of the script from the Oliver Stone era: "Terry (Hayes) wrote a "Terminator" and Fox wanted "The Flintstones".

I read that Terry Hayes script!  It was crap.  There was such B.S. over that script.

-- Rory


**************************************
Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour<.html <.html

I honestly do not see why there is this current
obsession with remaking if I may call them ''classic''
films,I know,I have mentioned this in an earlier
posting.But to my mind,as has been metioned by another
member...if folk are going to have a go at a film in
existence,then why not show us the progresses and
developments made where the last film{s} left
off..look at the string of Star Trek Films,and the
spin offs from that..no need for remakes there.You
would think with the current trend for remakes that
there were no fresh ideas left for film makers...all I
can say is they better keep their ''filthy stinking
paws '' off of Ben Hur.I know some would refer to
Burton's effort as not being a strict remake ..but still


___________________________________________________________

Personally, I don't think it's the actual prop. Come to think of it,
wasn't that a matte painting used at the end of PLANET? I knew they built
scaffolding to shoot at a downward angle, but I always thought the final
shot was just SFX. Above and beyond which, the crown doesn't match up
between the "restored" photos and the screen grab from the film.

Someone clarify if I'm wrong, but I think this is bogus.


Chris L.

.html

>>It's Cap'n Cornelius! <<

<.html

This was used for the "back of the head" shot only according to the description. The "front shot" was indeed a matte painting.

Bruce


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Lawless <lawford42@...>
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 9:27 pm
Subject: [POTA] Re: Now THAT'S AN AUCTION!!!

seems like we woould have heard about this before...it
also looks like it's in pretty damn good shape for
being that old.....


--- Chris Lawless <lawford42@...> wrote:

> Personally, I don't think it's the actual prop. Come
> to think of it,
> wasn't that a matte painting used at the end of
> PLANET? I knew they built
> scaffolding to shoot at a downward angle, but I
> always thought the final
> shot was just SFX. Above and beyond which, the crown
> doesn't match up
> between the "restored" photos and the screen grab
> from the film.
>
> Someone clarify if I'm wrong, but I think this is
> bogus.
>
>
> Chris L.
>

________________________

Did it sell?


--- Chris Lawless <lawford42@...> wrote:

> And he stays crunchy in milk!!!
>
> Not a bad opening bid, though to me it looks more
> like the Galen figure.
> I know there's virtually no difference between the
> two, but if I had to
> make a guess I'd go with Galen.
>
>
> Chris L.
>
>
>
> "Tim "apefan"" <apefan23@...> wrote:
>
> >>It's Cap'n Cornelius! <<

________________________

Apparently, Les Hemstock has purchased the original Liberty that was monted
on the scaffolding and is currently having it restored on the west coast.
This was mentioned at the NEC show.

Rob R

>From: "Tim \"apefan\"" <apefan23@...>
>Reply-To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>To: pota@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [POTA] Re: Now THAT'S AN AUCTION!!!
>Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2007 20:01:07 -0700 (PDT)
>
>seems like we woould have heard about this before...it
>also looks like it's in pretty damn good shape for
>being that old.....
>
>
>--- Chris Lawless <lawford42@...> wrote:
>
> > Personally, I don't think it's the actual prop. Come
> > to think of it,
> > wasn't that a matte painting used at the end of
> > PLANET? I knew they built
> > scaffolding to shoot at a downward angle, but I
> > always thought the final
> > shot was just SFX. Above and beyond which, the crown
> > doesn't match up
> > between the "restored" photos and the screen grab
> > from the film.
> >
> > Someone clarify if I'm wrong, but I think this is
> > bogus.
> >
> >
> > Chris L.
> >
>
>
>
>
>________________________

_____

Burton's Apes was intended to be a Christmas 2001 release and then
Fox pulled it forward to the Summer.The schedule was insane and I'm
sure that damaged the film badly. I still think that given more time,
it would just have been more polished, not great. Tim Burton strikes
me as the kind of actor who can tell you how to kick in a film, but
won't extract a moving response from the person kicked--it's all mad
action and look, no depth.Look at the difference between Zira and Ari-
-two excellent actresses, only one lasting performance.I hope
Burton's gone for good on Apes. John, Scrolls.

>
> No, I think there's love for the subject somewhere in there. They

had a bruising schedule and I think they were hoping to get it right
in a sequel. Richard Zanuck said they couldn't do what they wanted
because there wasn't time to reconceive. They had to go from the
script they had. Jeff

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: paul_mannering@...
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 5:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?
>
>
>
> But surely Burton only let Fox "fiddle" him because he really

didn't care for the concept or the story?

>
> Compare the remake of POTA with something like the remake of King

Kong.

>
> POTA 2001 comes across as complete shite because the director has

no personal vision or love of the project.

>
> King Kong came across as a lavish and hugely detailed production

(that suffered only from a lack of editing) because it had always
been the dream of the director to make this since he was a kid.

>
>
>
>
> Regards
> Paul Mannering
>
> Email Support Coordinator
> Phone Assist
>
> Tel: +64 3 962 3332 PO Box 203
> Email: paul_mannering@... Christchurch
> Web: www.westpac.co.nz New Zealand
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Jeff K." <veetus@...>
> Sent by: pota@yahoogroups.com
> 17/07/2007 12:23 P.M.
> Please respond to pota
>
> To: <pota@yahoogroups.com>
> cc:
> Subject: Re: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do

a good job NOW?

>
>
>
> At least Burton saw them as talking monkeys. Fox saw them as

the Flintstones! Producer Don Murphy said said of the script from the
Oliver Stone era: "Terry (Hayes) wrote a "Terminator" and Fox
wanted "The Flintstones".

> A decade before the film came out it's fate was already sealed.

Adam Rifkin (POTA writer from 1988 - 1991): "(Fox wanted) a happy,
harmonious ending between apes and humans, which I thought was a bad
idea".

> Burton let Fox play him like a fiddle but I don't think he

would today. He's learned his lesson. Jeff

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: James
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 1:53 PM
> Subject: [POTA] Re: OT: Would Burton do a good job NOW?
>
>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@> wrote:
> >
> > what damned Burton was a comment he made in the aftermath of

the release in

> > reference to the way in which the movie was being torn to

shreds by

> > the fans and critics - he said (something like) 'It doesn't pay

to

> > over-analyze, at the end of the day it's just a movie about

talking

> > monkeys".
> >
>
> I think that says it all.
>
> I don't care how much clout the guy has. He is just a hack who

doesn't understand or respect the concept.

>
>
>
>
>
> The contents of this e-mail are confidential. If you have

received this communication by mistake, please advise the sender
immediately and delete the message and any attachments. Nothing in
this email designates an information system for the purposes of
Section 11(a) of the New Zealand Electronic Transactions Act 2002.
Westpac New Zealand Limited.

>