>
> A few earlier posts, including one from myself, mentioned that the
> involvement of Fox is a big negative that truly handicaps the
> possibility of a new and quality Planet Of The Apes film.
> Although I would love to see a new film, not a remake or re-
> imaginging or even a re-mix, I think I will bring it back to a
> preference for a TV series or TV Features.
> The Talent to create it is there in abundance.Again though, Fox

> to be distracted from interfering.
>
> A new show though. New characters, perhaps. Maybe some old
> characters at a different stage of the timeline.I am sure many have
> ideas.
>
> But - As posted by Dave - The old makeup has to be in attendance.

> would be a true nod to the the roots of the franchise.
>
> Brendan.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@...> wrote:
>
> And if it's 'old make-up', it has GOT to be Stan Winston, not Rick
> Baker.That tragic decision is one that I'll never forive Buton for--
> he shot the new movie in the head right there and then.I still thing
> of Winston's tests and weep over what might have been. It's all about
> the Apes, so make them look like folk you can empathise with, not
> screaming bellowing beasts that you just cannot relate to.John,
> Scrolls.
> >
> >

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@... wrote:
>
> If I had a choice, I would still love to have book shelves of pota
novels
> written by fans. This would provide something for everyone. Elaine
>
>
>
> **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL
Living.
> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-
campos-duffy/
> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, taebokitti@... wrote:
>
> Sounds like you have your daughter well trained, a future
primatologist in
> the making. My grandniece has a collection of stuffed apes like her
aunt. Elaine
>
>
>
> **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL
Living.
> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-
campos-duffy/
> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)
>

>
>
> Hello,
>
> This email message is a notification to let you know that
> a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the pota
> group.
>
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@...> wrote:
>
> Has anybody in Apeland got the book 'Films into Books' by Randall D
> Lawson? I'm told it has an interview with Michael Avallone about his
> Beneath novelisation.Apparently he wrote it in 3 days because
another
> writer's submitted manuscript was rejected. Which does raise the
> intriguing question as to whether, somewhere, there's a second
(first!)
> unpublished manuscript of Beneath to be discovered.The book may also
> have George Effinger in there, but I'm not sure.It's a 1995 book and
it
> would be interesting to see the Apes bits. John, Scrolls.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@...> wrote:
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > This email message is a notification to let you know that
> > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the pota
> > group.
> >
> >
>
> I updated my Adobe Acrobat, and when it was done there was no
option
> for saving a file to my computer. Is it possible to save this
file as
> a pdf? I've tried copying to clipboard and making it a Word
document,
> but that doesn't save the settings (indents, etc) of the original.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Helen
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "gp3085" <urko3085@...> wrote:
>
> Helen:
>
> Not sure I understand. The file I just uploaded IS a PDF. You
should
> be able to right-click on the link in the announcement message and
> save the target file to your PC. If you open the file via the link
> it should open in Adobe Reader (or whatever software you have that
> reads PDFs) and you should be able to save it from within the
> software. I didn't use any security settings which would prevent
> anyone from saving or printing the file.
>
> Greg P.
>
>

Right click on this link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/Films%20Into%20Books.pdf and choose 'Save Target As'.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" <sand_hill_school@...> wrote:
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > This email message is a notification to let you know that
> > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the pota
> > group.
> >
> >
>
> I updated my Adobe Acrobat, and when it was done there was no option
> for saving a file to my computer. Is it possible to save this file as
> a pdf? I've tried copying to clipboard and making it a Word document,
> but that doesn't save the settings (indents, etc) of the original.
>
> Thank you.
>
> Helen
>

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing with us Greg.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "gp3085" <urko3085@...> wrote:
>
> I didn't have this book, but I was able to hunt down an inexpensive
> used copy. In addition to a short interview with Avallone, there are
> also short interviews with John Jakes and George Alec Effinger
> regarding their Apes novelizations. I've scanned the pages with those
> interviews and posted a PDF in the files section.
>
> Based on Avallone's interview, I'd say John's hopes for an alternate
> adaptation of Beneath are pretty much dashed. Avallone wrote the novel
> without a contract for NAL. They failed to secure the rights to
> publish the novelization so Avallone seemed to be out of luck. Bantam
> had gotten the rights and first contracted Keith Laumer to write the
> novelization, but he wasn't able to do it and backed out. Avallone's
> agent negotiated a quick deal with Bantam for the already-written
> manuscript.
>
> Greg P.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" john@ wrote:
> >
> > Has anybody in Apeland got the book 'Films into Books' by Randall D
> > Lawson? I'm told it has an interview with Michael Avallone about his
> > Beneath novelisation.Apparently he wrote it in 3 days because
> another
> > writer's submitted manuscript was rejected. Which does raise the
> > intriguing question as to whether, somewhere, there's a second
> (first!)
> > unpublished manuscript of Beneath to be discovered.The book may also
> > have George Effinger in there, but I'm not sure.It's a 1995 book and
> it
> > would be interesting to see the Apes bits. John, Scrolls.
> >
>

>
> I didn't have this book, but I was able to hunt down an inexpensive
> used copy. In addition to a short interview with Avallone, there

> also short interviews with John Jakes and George Alec Effinger
> regarding their Apes novelizations. I've scanned the pages with

> interviews and posted a PDF in the files section.
>
> Based on Avallone's interview, I'd say John's hopes for an

> adaptation of Beneath are pretty much dashed. Avallone wrote the

> without a contract for NAL. They failed to secure the rights to
> publish the novelization so Avallone seemed to be out of luck.

> had gotten the rights and first contracted Keith Laumer to write

> novelization, but he wasn't able to do it and backed out.

> agent negotiated a quick deal with Bantam for the already-written
> manuscript.
>
> Greg P.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "shanter2002" <john@> wrote:
> >
> > Has anybody in Apeland got the book 'Films into Books' by Randall

> > Lawson? I'm told it has an interview with Michael Avallone about

> > Beneath novelisation.Apparently he wrote it in 3 days because
> another
> > writer's submitted manuscript was rejected. Which does raise the
> > intriguing question as to whether, somewhere, there's a second
> (first!)
> > unpublished manuscript of Beneath to be discovered.The book may

> > have George Effinger in there, but I'm not sure.It's a 1995 book

> it
> > would be interesting to see the Apes bits. John, Scrolls.
> >
>

We are saddened to hear of the passing of Leonard Rosenman who composed the music scores for Beneath and Battle.

http://www.filmmusicsociety.org/news_events/features/2008/030408.html"

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
>
> We are saddened to hear of the passing of Leonard Rosenman who
composed
> the music scores for Beneath and Battle.
>
> http://www.filmmusicsociety.org/news_events/features/2008/030408.html"
>
<http://www.filmmusicsociety.org/news_events/features/2008/030408.html">
>

----- Original Message -----

From: brendan486

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:08 PM

Subject: [pota] Ebay Auction 320218419313 $5,0000

The above auction on ebay is for Hestons Loin Coverings from the
original film.
So if anyone wants to really get close to their film favourite, good
luck.
Also plenty of rare Ape items being offered by the same seller.
Brendan.

On 3/6/08, Jeff <skintricks@...> wrote:

Check out the guy with the backwards Cornelius suit.

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: brendan486

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:08 PM

Subject: [pota] Ebay Auction 320218419313 $5,0000

 

The above auction on ebay is for Hestons Loin Coverings from the
original film.
So if anyone wants to really get close to their film favourite, good
luck.
Also plenty of rare Ape items being offered by the same seller.
Brendan.

> > Check out the guy with the backwards Cornelius suit.

>
> Sony Picks Up "Animals" Script - By Garth Franklin
>
> Sony Pictures has picked up the high-concept spec script "Animals" by
> former NYC assistant district attorney Mike Sobel reports the trades.
>
> The horror thriller chronicles what happens when all the world's
> animals turn on humans and take back the planet.
>

The latest entry of CORNELIUS' JOURNAL is now available. 

To read the JOURNAL entry either click the banner on the Yahoo home page or use this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/CJ.htm

Have a great weekend everybody!

Visit all the Group's special features including:

• The Group Website  - Original POTA One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much more.
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• The Photos Section  - POTA pics contributed by members.

>
> It took me awhile, but I found it!
>
> 320218419174
>
> Jessica.
>
>
> On 3/6/08, Jeff <skintricks@...> wrote:
> >
> > Check out the guy with the backwards Cornelius suit.
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > *From:* brendan486 <nzape@...>
> > *To:* pota@yahoogroups.com
> > *Sent:* Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:08 PM
> > *Subject:* [pota] Ebay Auction 320218419313 $5,0000
> >
> >
> >
> > The above auction on ebay is for Hestons Loin Coverings from the
> > original film.
> > So if anyone wants to really get close to their film favourite,

> > luck.
> > Also plenty of rare Ape items being offered by the same seller.
> > Brendan.
> >
> >
> >
>

>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@> wrote:
> >
> > Sony Picks Up "Animals" Script - By Garth Franklin
> >
> > Sony Pictures has picked up the high-concept spec

> > former NYC assistant district attorney Mike Sobel reports the

> >
> > The horror thriller chronicles what happens when all the world's
> > animals turn on humans and take back the planet.
> >
>
>
> Aside from POTA which only dealt with apes - hasn't this guy or

> at Sony heard of "ANIMAL FARM"?!!!
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, rob reading <readingrob@...> wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone notified the seller, it would be nice to see the top the
correct way?
>

--
Funnily enough the same thought about A.F. occurred to me,must be
the fact ''ape thinks like ape '' lol
- In pota@yahoogroups. com, "digitalcinema" <digitalcinema@ ...> wrote:
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups. com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@ > wrote:
> >
> > Sony Picks Up "Animals" Script - By Garth Franklin
> >
> > Sony Pictures has picked up the high-concept spec
script "Animals" by
> > former NYC assistant district attorney Mike Sobel reports the
trades.
> >
> > The horror thriller chronicles what happens when all the world's
> > animals turn on humans and take back the planet.
> >
>
>
> Aside from POTA which only dealt with apes - hasn't this guy or
anyone
> at Sony heard of "ANIMAL FARM"?!!!
>

---

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 9:59 AM, scott bosco <digitalcinema@...> wrote:

I'll take that as a great compement.

I suppose all this is to expected, with THE BIRDS in the works to being re-made.

Arrghh.

Bobby Smyth <cuddybuddy69@...> wrote:

--
Funnily enough the same thought about A.F. occurred to me,must be
the fact ''ape thinks like ape '' lol
- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "digitalcinema" <digitalcinema@...> wrote:
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Dave B" <smugster2000@> wrote:
> >
> > Sony Picks Up "Animals" Script - By Garth Franklin
> >
> > Sony Pictures has picked up the high-concept spec
script "Animals" by
> > former NYC assistant district attorney Mike Sobel reports the
trades.
> >
> > The horror thriller chronicles what happens when all the world's
> > animals turn on humans and take back the planet.
> >
>
>
> Aside from POTA which only dealt with apes - hasn't this guy or
anyone
> at Sony heard of "ANIMAL FARM"?!!!
>

---

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

>
> Hello, All,
>
> I'm very happy to join Yahoo's POTA Community since I've been an

> 38 years. Unlike many Apes fans, I as a 10-year-old kid had the

> movie called "Planet of the Apes" 40 years ago because I hadn't

> for it and at the time, to my young ears, its very name sounded

> don't know, like "Monkey Planet" (a literal translation of the

> novel).
>
> What changed my mind about the series was an extended preview

> sequel, "Beneath The Planet of the Apes" that I saw in May or June

> cinema, the only theater in fact in my rural home parish in

> wondered what happened to that wonderfully dark and satirical scene

> extended preview trailer that stunned me at the time because it was

> times, the late 1960s, and made me realize that there was something

> about this series after all.
>
> If you, like I, have watched "Beneath" dozens of times on

> perceptive, you may have noted that what appears to be some

> of the scene where General Ursus, Dr. Zaius and the Gorilla Army

> chimpanzee demonstrators protesting their march to war. The odd

> occurs in the sequence right after Dr. Zaius politely admonishes

> road and about when General Ursus is pulling his gun out of his

> sequence that I believe the scene featured in the extended trailer

> Planet of the Apes" originally appeared. Once excised, the scene

> appears today.
>
> The missing scene may not have lasted longer than 2 or 3 minutes

> not just in terms of action but in terms of dialogue to boot.

> asked the protesting chimps to move, one of them, a protest leader,

> defiantly challenges Zaius and Ursus right back. What transpires

> debate of sorts in oneupmanship that grows ever more heated with

> between Ursus and the chimp protest leader as each counters the

> counterpoint that bests the previous counterpoint about the need

> bests Ursus' argument altogether, leaving Ursus speechless, fuming,

> still trying to maintain his composure.
>
> And then, in a moment of inspiration, he comes up with the

> trumps those of the chimp protest leader once and for all: Ursus

> holster, pulls out his gun and neatly shoots down the chimp

>
> It was *this scene* which also blew me away because it was so

> help but laugh and wince at the same time. And yet, as the years

> to find any information about why that scene had been cut

> Apes." After all, it was dramatically powerful. Indeed, I've seen

> of Zira holding one of the protest banners carried by chimp

> character wasn't in that scene. *However,* in hindsight, I have

> promo photographs weren't also of scenes cut from the film.
>
> It wasn't until some 15 years ago that I began to speculate

> the late May 1970 release date of "Beneath the Planet of the Apes"

> historical event that might have influenced studio execs to edit

> Ursus-shoots-the-chimp-protester scene from the final prints

> I'm talking about a real-life human-soldiers-shoot-human-anti-war-

> that occurred on the campus of Kent State University on May 4,

> before the release of "Beneath." That event was shown on the

> traumatized the nation to a certain extent. (I learned about this

> college campus radio station department head who had gone to Kent

> '70s.)
>
> In recent years, I've learned of other films whose content was

> years out of fear of inflaming controversy or raising political

> have guessed that none other than then-President Richard M. Nixon

> influential enough to bend the ear of Warner Brothers Studio boss

> persuade him to edit out an entire song from the movie version of

> namely the "Cool, Cool Conservative Men" song and sequence. (Warner

> advance preview of the movie for Nixon.) Reason: The "1776" movie

> a presidential election year and Nixon apparently felt that the

> Conservative Men" so darkly lambasted conservatives' more extremist

> elitist notions that it might somehow affect his re-election.
>
> Now, when I first saw "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" in August

> the absence of the Ursus-shoots-the-chimpanzee-protester scene

> enthralled by the other elements of the movie. And it was the first

> so there was much to marvel about. Only in subsequent years did I

> had happened to that aforementioned scene and wonder why it had

> finished move.
>
> I now speculate that the chimp protester was none other than

> the first movie. After all, he would have been the perfect foil for

> been a nicely ironic turn of events for a character whom Taylor

> expressing his discontent would have met the same fate as Taylor

> Ursus). I also found it somewhat ironic that Lou Wagner's name

> credits but was only seen in a sequence at the beginning of the

> "Planet of the Apes."
>
> As to those promo pictures of Zira holding the protest sign, I

> there must have been a subsequent scene whereby Zira and Cornelius

> of the city plaza where the chimps had been demonstrating and while

> to any truncheon-hit students finds Lucius in one of the paddy

> and dying. I cannot imagine a better way for Zira to have

> than to have picked up his dropped banner and resumed the protest

>
> In real life, during the '70s and '80s, the mothers of

> Were Made To Disappear (a.k.a. the Disappeared Ones) in Argentina

> this to protest their children who had been kidnapped and relocated

> junt governemtn to other politically-acceptable parents (if the

> and buried in unmarked graves). And in recent years, we've seen

> the banner of protest against the Iraq War because they believed

> had died for an unworthy cause.
>
> So, I would like to ask: Do any of you recall seeing or hearing

> extended advance preview trailer for "Beneath the Planet of the

> featured the Ursus-shoots-the-chimp-protester scene which evidently

> final print of the movie?
>
> Since I myself was living in a small rural parish in Louisiana,

> how it might have escaped the notice of 20th Century Fox that there

> preview trailers in circulation containing that same controversial

> by 2nd- and 3rd-run cinemas in small counties/parishes and towns.

> seeing that "Beneath" extended advance preview trailer in May or

>
> Note: This extended advance preview trailer should not be

> one that eventually came out right before the movie. In terms of

> advance preview trailer seemed like it was some 4 or 5 minutes long.
>
> But here's the kicker: I know that extended advance preview

> because unlike the regular movie trailer which came later, that

> me a sample of the content of the movie and thereby won me over as

> expectations and indeed raised my expectations by far. Otherwise, I

> hooked to see it as the regular one didn't give me (who hadn't then

> movie) a clear idea of what the series was about.
>
> If any footage of the excised scene exists, I would most

> campaign to get 20th Century Fox to restore it for it would most

> release of a special 40th Anniversary edition of "Beneath the

> For that lost scene offered some dramatic heft that was eerily

> in the most unexpected way: It inadvertently aped real-life events.
>
> (Or hasn't anybody noticed how the herky-jerky film footage of

> chimp protesters into the paddy wagons is reminiscent of news film

> policeman and soldiers hauling anti-Vietnam War protesters into

> our TV screens back then?)
>
>
> If anybody has any leads on this, please let me know.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <blackaciddevil01@...> wrote:
>
> I was thinking about ordering the series on DVD but can't remember
much
> about the tv series itself. Do any of you think it is worth
ordering??
> Is it as good as all the movies?? Pardon my asking this question
but I
> was quite young when the show aired on TV. I just wanted a few
> opinions. I've absolutely loved the series for years.
>

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Bobby Smyth" <cuddybuddy69@...> wrote:
>
> I don't know if this ''effort'' is available in USA,but I have just
> seen what has to be the most awful thing ever available to buy here
in
> Scotland..It is a double DVD ''Special''...They have only gone and
> released the original POTA on the same disc as that bloming awful Tim
> Burton one ...How could they ...pttttptttt
>

>
>
> Your comma is in the wrong place.
> Is that supposed to be fie thousand or fifty thousand?
>
>

>
>
> You're absolutely right. This double feature thing of original

> with remake is something FOX must feel real smug about. They are

> doing it with HOUSE ON HAUNTED HILL. It's amazing how people get

> to come up with these things, and make decisions that affect so

>
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Bobby Smyth" <cuddybuddy69@> wrote:
> >
> > I don't know if this ''effort'' is available in USA,but I have

> > seen what has to be the most awful thing ever available to buy

> in
> > Scotland..It is a double DVD ''Special''...They have only gone

> > released the original POTA on the same disc as that bloming awful

> > Burton one ...How could they ...pttttptttt
> >
>

The missing scene may not have lasted longer than 2 or 3 minutes but it was a stunner not just in terms of action but in terms of dialogue to boot. Apparently, after Dr. Zaius asked the protesting chimps to move, one of them, a protest leader, steps forward and defiantly challenges Zaius and Ursus right back. What transpires next is a philosophical debate of sorts in oneupmanship that grows ever more heated with each exchange between Ursus and the chimp protest leader as each counters the other's argument with a counterpoint that bests the previous counterpoint about the need for war, until the chimp bests Ursus' argument altogether, leaving Ursus speechless, fuming, visibly flustered but still trying to maintain his composure.

 

 

I for one do not believe this for one minute. It sounds like either a totally false memory, or just a long winded story. There is no way that such a scene existed. If it did, tell me, where is the corpse of the dead protestor? Surely if Ursus shot someone down the body would be visible during the rest of the scene wouldn't it? Or are you going to say that they reshot the whole scene to excise the dead student out altogether? In the actual film, as Ursus is going to go for his pistol, Zaius butts in and says "We don't want martyrs do we?" to which Ursus replies "Major, do it quietly" and they haul the students off to the cages. If the fictitious scene existed, why would  Zaius say that to Ursus? Wouldn't he have said "You've killed one Ursus, how many more must perish!?!" or something like that...

To say that anyone was killed during the protest scene is purely fictitious. If anyone was shot, the whole dynamic of the scene would have been altered, altered in such a way that what DID happen in the movie wouldn't make a lot of sense. I say that because IF the scene you allege was included (and later cut) the students would more than likely have been up in arms. They probably would have been an out of control mob after that. They wouldn't just be sitting in the road if one of their comrades was shot, they'd either be fleeing for their own lives or in fisticuffs with the soldiers.

 

Plus, not to mention all of the above, an even more important question to you is this: Can you provide evidence of it's existence in a script? I know none of the drafts that are out there have anything like that. Check Hunter's websight if you want to, but I'm sure you will not find anything even remotely close to what you're saying here. No script has it, and neither does the MARVEL adaption, and I bring that into it because it is said that the adaptions in the APES magazine(s) followed an actual draft of the film's script.

It was *this scene* which also blew me away because it was so unexpected. I couldn't help but laugh and wince at the same time.

Stories like this are so unexpected to hear, I can't help but laugh and wince at the allegations that anything like your scene or the other false memory scene of Ursus ordering his troops to shoot down Caspay, The Fatman, and the Verger existed in the film originally, and yet after 38 years, NO evidence has ever come up to show that they did exist. Not a script, not a still, nothing.

 

And yet, as the years wore on, I never was able to find any information about why that scene had been cut from "Beneath the Planet of the Apes." After all, it was dramatically powerful.

 

Believe me, if anything like that ever existed, it would have been mentioned in Joe Russo's book. From what I know, he loves BENEATH and I'd guess he wouldn't have let a piece like you're talking about go unmentioned in his book.

 

 

Indeed, I've seen some promo photographs of Zira holding one of the protest banners carried by chimp protesters even though her character wasn't in that scene. *However,* in hindsight, I have begun to wonder if those promo photographs weren't also of scenes cut from the film.

From all I've ever heard, the shots of Zira with the peace sign were just promo shots, and they probably did use Kim as an extra in that scene (though undistinguishable) because she was already made-up.

---

Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

The only thing I find incredible about the scene you saw is the fact the gorillas seems to be blindly religious in their faith and Ursus didn't even want to shoot the crucified gorillas in the Forbidden Zone – so as shocking as that scene you saw is – it is a major discrepancy in what is written and transpires. As fans we can see into this scene and explain it away as Ursus feeling that way "only" towards his own (other gorillas).

More like Ursus wanted to have the protestors killed because they were breaking Martial Law. Yes indeed, even in the ape culture there is a difference between killing to protect the people ( "executions") and just killing for the sake of killing. In PLANET, Zaius threatened to have Cornelius and Zira hung for being treasonous. He did not make that statement lightly. He would have, and could have followed thru with it and it would have been acceptable in their society. Killing heretics or those guilty of treason would not be unheard of.

Even in the TV series, Councilor Zaius and Chief Urko would killl any ape that breaks the law. Zaius tells Virdon and Burke that he will have them killed someday, as he must have poor Galen killed.

 

They see execution and killing as two different things.

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 Do any of you think it is worth ordering??

 

Yes, I'd think it's worth ordering.

Is it as good as all the movies?

It's not quite as good as the films, but then again, it was a TV series and some changes were made to the material. It does have it's moments though, and for the low price of the DVD set it's well worth the price.


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--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Bobby Smyth" <cuddybuddy69@...> wrote:

They have only gone and released the original POTA on the same disc as
that blooming awful Tim Burton one ...How could they ...pttttptttt

*** My guess is they want to show you Heaven and Hell. ***

 Do any of you think it is worth ordering??

 

Yes, I'd think it's worth ordering.

Is it as good as all the movies?

It's not quite as good as the films, but then again, it was a TV series and some changes were made to the material. It does have it's moments though, and for the low price of the DVD set it's well worth the price.


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--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Bobby Smyth" <cuddybuddy69@...> wrote:

They have only gone and released the original POTA on the same disc as
that blooming awful Tim Burton one ...How could they ...pttttptttt

*** My guess is they want to show you Heaven and Hell. ***

It's a damned shame that FOX evidently won't put those deleted scenes on a special section of a future re-release of BENEATH...   You cannot release what you do not have (and you cannot release what never existed to begin with.)   I believe that I too had seen the extended trailer in July 1970, right around the time it premiered here in Topeka.   I find it very hard to believe that a fairly major city like Topeka would not get BENEATH (or any major film for that matter) for two months after it's release. Plus, why would they show an ADVANCE trailer as he called it if the film was already released or just about to be released in Topeka? An advance trailer is shown well in advance of the film's release, not at the time it is or right around the time of it's release. They would not show the advance trailer to promote BENEATH by the time it was in theaters anywhere.   Hmmm... I'm beginning to think that maybe this fabulous (and fictional) advance trailer for BENEATH not only showed a student executed, but I'll bet ya that's where that cool deleted scene of Ursus ordering the soldiers to gun down the three mutants came from too.. We really need to get FOX to release that trailer, because it sounds like it could be a great film within itself.

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>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Bobby Smyth" <cuddybuddy69@> wrote:
>
> They have only gone and released the original POTA on the same disc

> that blooming awful Tim Burton one ...How could they ...pttttptttt
>
> *** My guess is they want to show you Heaven and Hell. ***
>

----- Original Message -----

From: James King

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 10:32 AM

Subject: [pota] Search for Missing Scene from "Beneath the Planet of the Apes"

Hello, All,

I'm very happy to join Yahoo's POTA Community since I've been an Apes fan for nearly
38 years. Unlike many Apes fans, I as a 10-year-old kid had the audacity to shrug off a
movie called "Planet of the Apes" 40 years ago because I hadn't seen any of the previews
for it and at the time, to my young ears, its very name sounded almost as silly as, uh, I
don't know, like "Monkey Planet" (a literal translation of the title of Pierre Boulle's original
novel).

What changed my mind about the series was an extended preview trailer for the first
sequel, "Beneath The Planet of the Apes" that I saw in May or June 1970 in a small-town
cinema, the only theater in fact in my rural home parish in Louisiana. Over the years, I'd
wondered what happened to that wonderfully dark and satirical scene featured that
extended preview trailer that stunned me at the time because it was so evocative of the
times, the late 1960s, and made me realize that there was something quite compelling
about this series after all.

If you, like I, have watched "Beneath" dozens of times on video, then if you were
perceptive, you may have noted that what appears to be some awkwared lapses in editing
of the scene where General Ursus, Dr. Zaius and the Gorilla Army confront the peaceful
chimpanzee demonstrators protesting their march to war. The odd juxtoposition in editing
occurs in the sequence right after Dr. Zaius politely admonishes the chimps to get off the
road and about when General Ursus is pulling his gun out of his holster. It's in this
sequence that I believe the scene featured in the extended trailer preview for "Beneath The
Planet of the Apes" originally appeared. Once excised, the scene was truncated into what
appears today.

The missing scene may not have lasted longer than 2 or 3 minutes but it was a stunner
not just in terms of action but in terms of dialogue to boot. Apparently, after Dr. Zaius
asked the protesting chimps to move, one of them, a protest leader, steps forward and
defiantly challenges Zaius and Ursus right back. What transpires next is a philosophical
debate of sorts in oneupmanship that grows ever more heated with each exchange
between Ursus and the chimp protest leader as each counters the other's argument with a
counterpoint that bests the previous counterpoint about the need for war, until the chimp
bests Ursus' argument altogether, leaving Ursus speechless, fuming, visibly flustered but
still trying to maintain his composure.

And then, in a moment of inspiration, he comes up with the ultimate counterpoint that
trumps those of the chimp protest leader once and for all: Ursus simply reaches into his
holster, pulls out his gun and neatly shoots down the chimp protester.

It was *this scene* which also blew me away because it was so unexpected. I couldn't
help but laugh and wince at the same time. And yet, as the years wore on, I never was able
to find any information about why that scene had been cut from "Beneath the Planet of the
Apes." After all, it was dramatically powerful. Indeed, I've seen some promo photographs
of Zira holding one of the protest banners carried by chimp protesters even though her
character wasn't in that scene. *However,* in hindsight, I have begun to wonder if those
promo photographs weren't also of scenes cut from the film.

It wasn't until some 15 years ago that I began to speculate about a connection between
the late May 1970 release date of "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" and a then-recent
historical event that might have influenced studio execs to edit out that aforementioned
Ursus-shoots- the-chimp- protester scene from the final prints of "Beneath." In this case,
I'm talking about a real-life human-soldiers- shoot-human- anti-war- protesters incident
that occurred on the campus of Kent State University on May 4, 1970, just three weeks
before the release of "Beneath." That event was shown on the network news and
traumatized the nation to a certain extent. (I learned about this when I was talking with a
college campus radio station department head who had gone to Kent State in the early
'70s.)

In recent years, I've learned of other films whose content was cut during those same
years out of fear of inflaming controversy or raising political hackles. After all, who would
have guessed that none other than then-President Richard M. Nixon in 1972 would be
influential enough to bend the ear of Warner Brothers Studio boss Jack Warner and
persuade him to edit out an entire song from the movie version of the musical "1776",
namely the "Cool, Cool Conservative Men" song and sequence. (Warner had set up an
advance preview of the movie for Nixon.) Reason: The "1776" movie was released in 1972,
a presidential election year and Nixon apparently felt that the song "Cool, Cool
Conservative Men" so darkly lambasted conservatives' more extremist proclivities and
elitist notions that it might somehow affect his re-election.

Now, when I first saw "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" in August 1970, I didn't question
the absence of the Ursus-shoots- the-chimpanzee- protester scene because I as a kid was
enthralled by the other elements of the movie. And it was the first Apes film I'd ever seen,
so there was much to marvel about. Only in subsequent years did I begin to ponder what
had happened to that aforementioned scene and wonder why it had been excised from the
finished move.

I now speculate that the chimp protester was none other than Lucius, Zira's nephew from
the first movie. After all, he would have been the perfect foil for Ursus and it would have
been a nicely ironic turn of events for a character whom Taylor encouraged to keep
expressing his discontent would have met the same fate as Taylor himself (both shot by
Ursus). I also found it somewhat ironic that Lou Wagner's name appears in the closing
credits but was only seen in a sequence at the beginning of the movie from the original
"Planet of the Apes."

As to those promo pictures of Zira holding the protest sign, I can well imagine that
there must have been a subsequent scene whereby Zira and Cornelius arrive on the scene
of the city plaza where the chimps had been demonstrating and while giving medical aid
to any truncheon-hit students finds Lucius in one of the paddy wagons mortally wounded
and dying. I cannot imagine a better way for Zira to have memorialized Lucius in spirit
than to have picked up his dropped banner and resumed the protest march.

In real life, during the '70s and '80s, the mothers of the "Desaparacidos" , Those Who
Were Made To Disappear (a.k.a. the Disappeared Ones) in Argentina did something like
this to protest their children who had been kidnapped and relocated by the ruling military-
junt governemtn to other politically- acceptable parents (if the kids weren't killed outright
and buried in unmarked graves). And in recent years, we've seen real-life mothers take up
the banner of protest against the Iraq War because they believed their children in uniform
had died for an unworthy cause.

So, I would like to ask: Do any of you recall seeing or hearing about an advance
extended advance preview trailer for "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" in 1970 that
featured the Ursus-shoots- the-chimp- protester scene which evidently was cut from the
final print of the movie?

Since I myself was living in a small rural parish in Louisiana, I can readily understand
how it might have escaped the notice of 20th Century Fox that there were still advance
preview trailers in circulation containing that same controversial scene that would be seen
by 2nd- and 3rd-run cinemas in small counties/parishes and towns. After all, I remember
seeing that "Beneath" extended advance preview trailer in May or June 1970.

Note: This extended advance preview trailer should not be confused with the regular
one that eventually came out right before the movie. In terms of duration, the extended
advance preview trailer seemed like it was some 4 or 5 minutes long.

But here's the kicker: I know that extended advance preview movie trailer exists
because unlike the regular movie trailer which came later, that extended preview one gave
me a sample of the content of the movie and thereby won me over as it defied my
expectations and indeed raised my expectations by far. Otherwise, I might not have been
hooked to see it as the regular one didn't give me (who hadn't then even seen the first
movie) a clear idea of what the series was about.

If any footage of the excised scene exists, I would most heartily advocate a writing
campaign to get 20th Century Fox to restore it for it would most certainly justify the
release of a special 40th Anniversary edition of "Beneath the Planet of the Apes" indeed.
For that lost scene offered some dramatic heft that was eerily evocative of the late 1960s
in the most unexpected way: It inadvertently aped real-life events.

(Or hasn't anybody noticed how the herky-jerky film footage of the gorillas hauling the
chimp protesters into the paddy wagons is reminiscent of news film footage scenes of
policeman and soldiers hauling anti-Vietnam War protesters into police vans that graced
our TV screens back then?)

If anybody has any leads on this, please let me know.

----- Original Message -----

From: Tom

To: pota@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 1:42 PM

Subject: [pota] Question about the POTA TV Series.........

I was thinking about ordering the series on DVD but can't remember much
about the tv series itself. Do any of you think it is worth ordering??
Is it as good as all the movies?? Pardon my asking this question but I
was quite young when the show aired on TV. I just wanted a few
opinions. I've absolutely loved the series for years.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James King" <shrstrategygames@...> wrote:


The missing scene may not have lasted longer than 2 or 3 minutes but it
was a stunner


*** Let me ask you one more thing regarding this: Name me one APES
related "advance trailer" that has ANY scene that lasts a total of
three solid minutes. Off the top of my head, I do not believe that
either one of the NATO presentations (PLANET or BENEATH) have any one
scene that goes a solid three minutes. I don't even think either has
any one scene that goes two solid minutes.

The theater owners who seen the NATO presentations probably seen them
before the public even seen any type of trailer. Now why would the mini-
films NOT contain such a long scene, but a trailer that was supposedly
shown in theaters, to the public, would? If anything, a trailer shown
in theaters would have even less footage in it. This story doesn't
appear to hold any water. ***

> This story doesn't
> appear to hold any water. ***

> We got a little lesson from Brian about CGI. I
> hadn't really thought
> about it before, but it's kind of cool. (I know you
> all know about
> this stuff, but I'm still learning.) Anyway...
>
> At first, the CGI stuff was making me kind of motion
> sick. There is a
> bit of a water/wave look to the movement. Through
> the movie, it sort
> of grew on me and I got used to it the the point
> where I could enjoy
> the genius that actually goes into it.
>
> As an aside: How much of that is computer wizardry
> and how much is
> artistic talent?
>
> My question would be: Would CGI have a place in a
> POTA re-make? (Or
> sequel or whatever?) Could/would "the look" be
> preserved with CGI, or
> do you (individually/collectively) have hard-core
> glue and latex
> make-up preferences? I'm completely ignoring 2001.
> I'm talking about
> reproducing the original Apes look.
>
> Helen
>
>

> We got a little lesson from Brian about CGI. I
> hadn't really thought
> about it before, but it's kind of cool. (I know you
> all know about
> this stuff, but I'm still learning.) Anyway...
>
> At first, the CGI stuff was making me kind of motion
> sick. There is a
> bit of a water/wave look to the movement. Through
> the movie, it sort
> of grew on me and I got used to it the the point
> where I could enjoy
> the genius that actually goes into it.
>
> As an aside: How much of that is computer wizardry
> and how much is
> artistic talent?
>
> My question would be: Would CGI have a place in a
> POTA re-make? (Or
> sequel or whatever?) Could/would "the look" be
> preserved with CGI, or
> do you (individually/collectively) have hard-core
> glue and latex
> make-up preferences? I'm completely ignoring 2001.
> I'm talking about
> reproducing the original Apes look.
>
> Helen
>
>

Does anyone have a copy of Conquest of the Planet of the Apes with the
original ending intact?

 

 

If anyone does/did, I'm sure it would have surfaced by now after 36 years.

I've heard that Fox does not have the original ending footage. Before the the 'NO' from Lisa and the new speech by Caesar was added.

 

I cannot swear to it, but from what I know, the film was supposed to end after Caesar says "And that day is upon you NOW!" and then the screen was to go black and THE END was supposed to appear with apes whooping, etc. so the bit that starts with Lisa and "No" was just tacked on. The final original" victory speech" is intact.

 

As far as FOX, who knows, the originl cut may be in their saltmine vaults. If it is we'll probably never know.

J. Lee Thompson is gone and I believe Associate Producer Frank Capra Jr. also passed away, so two of the main guys from the making of the film are no longer around. With them being dead, that's two less people that were involved in making the film that may know if anything actually did survive the re-editing.

If this could be found perhaps a directors cut of Conquest would be an option?

It'd be an option only if the film did survive and then FOX would have to give it's blessing and release it.


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> My question would be: Would CGI have a place in a POTA re-make? (Or
> sequel or whatever?) Could/would "the look" be preserved with CGI, or
> do you (individually/collectively) have hard-core glue and latex
> make-up preferences? I'm completely ignoring 2001. I'm talking about
> reproducing the original Apes look.

> But CGI could certainly be used to great effect for crowd scenes,
> Space ships, and landscapes etc. It would be nice to see an Ape CITY
> and not a small village.

> plus....many movies use CGI now to fill in
> backgrounds.....more than you would think.....you
> can't take anything for granted in movies now....MOST
> of the backgrounds in the last Star Wars films wasn't
> real...even if the people were just walking down a
> hall.....it's amazing stuff!!

> I mean I'm sure there are plenty of people that loved
> the Burton film and others hated it, does it make the ones that
> did like it any less of a fan because they like the real deal and the
> "reimagining"?

> I don't like the APES comics from the early 90s, does that make me
> an untrue fan?

> (how come no one ever criticized 'Bugs life' because the ants were
> light blue?)

Since we are talking about missing scenes, this isn't a missing scene but during the Go Ape! festival in the early '70s added to the end credits of Planet was something like "This is not the end. The story continues in Beneath the Planet of the Apes". I've never seen it before or since and think it must be something tacted on for a previous re-release, maybe the Planet/Beneath double feature.

Does anyone remember ever seeing this?

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, m c <aboro3085@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> Hunter Goatley goathunter@... wrote:
>
> Not to mention that it sounds nothing like a scene that would have actually been in the movie.
>
> As you can tell from my other posts, I agree with you on this one.
>
> All I can say is that thankfully he didn't go as far as saying that the protesting chimps put flowers in the barrels of the soldiers rifles.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
>

>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "ape_mom" sand_hill_school@ wrote:
>
> > My question would be: Would CGI have a place in a POTA re-make? (Or
> > sequel or whatever?) Could/would "the look" be preserved with CGI,

> > do you (individually/collectively) have hard-core glue and latex
> > make-up preferences? I'm completely ignoring 2001. I'm talking about
> > reproducing the original Apes look.
>
> Hey Helen,
>
> Even now, 40 years later and with all the advances in make-up I STILL
> believe that I'm watching apes and not actors in make up.
>
> I believe Chambers designs were (and continue to be) so successful
> because they were actor driven and allowed the actor beneath to 'bleed
> through' the make up. Granted some recent CGI creations have allowed
> the same thing (Bill Nighy as Davey Jones and Andy Serkis as Gollum)
> but they are exceptions rather than the rule. I think having a good
> half-dozen such characters in a single movie would, as this point, be
> prohibitively expensive and time consuming (but not impossible).
>
> Given enough care, what could work is a compromise, a technique they
> actually used in the Burton remake where CGI was used to enhance
> certain extreme expressions (Attar roaring). Unfortunately the CGI
> animation in the remake was pretty crude and unconvincing - 0n DVD it
> looks like something out of a Loony tunes cartoon!
>
> Animatronic technology exists for Ape characters to form 'hoot'
> expressions and peel their lips back to show teeth etc but these
> motions are driven by 'puppeteers' and servos and not the actors,
> which I suspect is the reason that Stan Winston studios lost out to
> Rick Baker.
>
> So I'm unconvinced that, with the current state of the art, that CGI
> Ape characters would work. Besides, there seems to be an unfair (IMHO)
> hatred of CGI characters unless they are played for laughs, like
> 'Shrek'. Reviews for 'Beowulf' which I thought was an amazing looking
> movie, and 'The Polar Express' which actually made me feel the magic
> of Christmas seemed to fixate on how unreal the characters looked -
> (how come no one ever criticized 'Bugs life' because the ants were
> light blue?)
>
> But CGI could certainly be used to great effect for crowd scenes,
> Space ships, and landscapes etc. It would be nice to see an Ape CITY
> and not a small village.
>
> Dave
>

> plus....many movies use CGI now to fill in
> backgrounds. ....more than you would think.....you
> can't take anything for granted in movies now....MOST
> of the backgrounds in the last Star Wars films wasn't
> real...even if the people were just walking down a
> hall.....it' s amazing stuff!!

These days, virtually any shot of the sky in any movie is CG. Even
those you would think had no CG at all.

Hunter

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> (how come no one ever criticized 'Bugs life' because the ants were
> light blue?)

What do you mean? What color are the ants where *you* live?? ;-)

Hunter

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