Looks like Fox wants that "Rise of the POTA" sequel pronto. Director Rupert Wyatt reportedly wanted to do Warners' "Londongrad" movie but had to bow out to get the Ape sequel rolling. Certainly sounds like 2013 to me (script willing).

http://www.deadline.com/2011/11/londongrad-losing-rupert-wyatt/

[Attachment(s) from James included below]

-----Original Message-----
From: William Burge
Sent: Friday, November 18, 2011 5:04 PM
Subject: rise marquee 2011

Dear group,  I found another theatre showing rise of the planet of the apes. the theatre is called WEST BRANCH CINEMA 3 in west branch, michigan  . the theatre opened in 1941. from william burge

Attachment(s) from James

1 of 1 Photo(s)

6054419925_aa72d07b3a.jpg

I'm hoping for a RISE2 that does what the magnificent BENEATH did---build on great foundations and create an enduring mythos that fed a saga.I love BENEATH, it's my favourite film.It gives us the concepts of gorilla bad guy leaders,Mutants, the Doomsday Bomb and it allows Apes to endure, not just be a quirky footnote in cinema histories.In other words,without Dehn, no Apes franchise, no sequels, tv series, comics, books,fanzines, groups--no us!!!RISE 2 needs to be daring and different, whilst retaining all the meat and depth of RISE 1.With Wyatt and Serkis on board, and the same writers, it's looking very promising.John, Scrolls.

I would love to see Fox be bold and go with an "R" rated nighmarish world. John M.

You can buy it on Boom!'s website: http://www.boom-studios.com/catalogsearch/advanced/result/?name=&series=733&writer=&artist=

Whether they should or shouldn't go down that route, good science fiction tends to push boundaries and raise difficult questions, even ones that appear squeamish. Still, with Fox wanting family friendly blockbusters that don't offend too much, valid questions about issues like sapient cross-species sex and reproduction in an *Apes* film will never happen. Humanoid aliens are within limits (Star Trek, etc), but even when an ape becomes sapient and more humanoid looking, the general public and Fox executives still see the animal instead of the person, and that's before any consideration of attractiveness comes into it.

Graham

It will never be done because its to bold and will still garner an "R" rating no dought but a sequel can be very Beneath like , in a great way, since it is now limtless as to where to go with the characters. I would love to see Fox be bold and go with an "R" rated nighmarish world.

I think the half human/half ape doesn't work because those two species can't reproduce, though I guess who knows with an intelligent ape.

What's all this about "Beneath"? The sequel is going to be like "Battle", the further adventures of Caesar.

I doubt there will ever be an "R" rated APES movie.

Fox wanting family friendly blockbusters

Sapient?

 

 

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, LordTZer0@... wrote:
>
>
> I think he meant sentient.
> though sapient sort of works.
>

No, I meant sapient deliberately instead of sentient. A sentient being has the ability to have consciousness and sensual awareness, while a sapient being has the ability of intelligence. So when I'm referring to sapient apes, I'm referring to apes that have human intelligence; sentient is such a wide brush that it can incorporate most mammals and beyond. It's odd how this distinction isn't more widely known amongst the science fiction community.

Graham

The biggest "botch" in BENEATH is the blowing up of the planet at the end. 

No, the word was deliberately chosen, so there's no need to look for another. Still, if you want to substitute it for another, then that's your choice, but I'll be sticking with sapient. :)

Graham

I almost wish they would just skip ahead to Planet.

Not that Battle can't be improved on.  You almost

can't do worse.  But I doubt that it's going to be too

much better.  Not my favorite part of the franchise.

You can buy it on Boom!'s website: http://www.boom-studios.com/catalogsearch/advanced/result/?name=&series=733&writer=&artist=

Thanks for that link, but now I'm really confused.

 

Why are there several covers and why are some $3.99 and others $9.99?

 

What is this?!!!!

Welcome to the modern world of comic sales.  The alternate covers are printed in smaller quantities and sell for more money to satiate "collectors." It's a way to get people to buy multiple copies of your comic.

Hunter

No, I meant sapient deliberately instead of sentient. A sentient being has the ability to have consciousness and sensual awareness, while a sapient being has the ability of intelligence. So when I'm referring to sapient apes, I'm referring to apes that have human intelligence; sentient is such a wide brush that it can incorporate most mammals and beyond. It's odd how this distinction isn't more widely known amongst the science fiction community.

Graham

Meh...I'd say the biggest botch was not waiting for McDowall to finish his directing gig. Second biggest botch? Telepathy. Mutants? I'd buy that.  The telepathy not so much. I think part of the charm of the series is that it move back to the time it started. No Alpha Omega, now present day apes, no Caesar. etc . . . Each of those had their own Botches.  But destroying the Planet? That seems the whole point of the thing. Remember, this was "Height of the Cold War" stuff. And many people felt, including myself, that the escalation was way over the top!  Two super powers with the ability to destroy the planet, many times over? I felt very much a monkey with a hand grenade situation.  That was the main idea of the story, forced hot mute sex & gorilla fighting aside. We only got rid of the Super Bombs a few weeks ago.  And only then because they offered no tactical advantage.  Not that be zapped into your component molecules isn't a great way to go. Their might be better.  Death by forced hot mute chick springs to mind right off the bat.

If they hadn't blown up the planet, where would they have gone? More movies with James Franciscus? More adventures among the monkeys? They were already out of ideas with "Beneath". Instead of ending the story by blowing up the planet, as Heston wanted, it gave the concept a shot in the arm. The last laugh was on Chuck.

The Los Angeles Times sez there was a "Rise" screening and Q & A (Andy Serkis skyped from "The Hobbit") last weekend to get the Screen Actors Guild to consider Andy for a Supporting Actor nomination. The Times also posits Andy in the top 10 of frontrunners in a wide open field.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/movies/2011/11/oscars-supporting-actor-race-is-wide-open.html"

If they hadn't blown up the planet, where would they have gone? More movies with James Franciscus? More adventures among the monkeys? They were already out of ideas with "Beneath". Instead of ending the story by blowing up the planet, as Heston wanted, it gave the concept a shot in the arm. The last laugh was on Chuck.

I'm sure you're saying something, but I'm not sure what.

 

 

-- Rory

But, Graham, I don't think that's what the word actually means in that context, but I'll give it a pass.

 

-- Rory

Maybe I was clumsy in my usage and shouldn't have used "sapient cross-species sex", and instead should have said "cross-species sex and reproduction between two sapient beings", but then I tend to overwrite (like this reply). Hope I've made things a little clearer.

sapient vs sentient

This week the "Rise of the POTA" box office dived further, from $ 7 million to $ 3 million for a worldwide total of $ 479 million.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=riseoftheapes.htm

Will it reach $ 500 million? Naw. But it's $ 6 million or so away from passing "Rio" and becoming Fox's # 1 of the year. Crawl, baby, crawl!
But it was a good run and "Rise" has just entered the Top 100 of all time. Lookie! Lookie!

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/

Well, I was trying to bring a distinction between bestiality and a cross-species sexual relationship between two intelligent species (like what happens in Star Trek).

BTW, look up on Google sapient vs sentient.

Graham

I never thought I'd see the day!

 

 

In a message dated 11/20/2011 11:26:45 A.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

I'm sure you're saying something, but I'm not sure what.

 

 

-- Rory

It's the Nova Conundrum. Relations between Nova and Taylor were certainly consensual, because even though she was mute she could reason and make herself understood.  But where on the evolutionary ladder would you put here.  That depends on your scale. Not as smart as Zira, but certainly hotter, in the conventional sense anyway. If aliens have relations with human females is it bestial, or just slumming. So antenna are okay, but excess hair isn't?  By that standard 60's chicks would be out.  Early 70's too.  

 

 

 

In a message dated 11/20/2011 3:21:48 P.M. Central Standard Time, gort65@... writes:

Maybe I was clumsy in my usage and shouldn't have used "sapient cross-species sex", and instead should have said "cross-species sex and reproduction between two sapient beings", but then I tend to overwrite (like this reply). Hope I've made things a little clearer.

Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

 

Sentience is consciousness: the ability to understand signals, interpret them, learn them, and use them.

Sapience is the ability to think abstractly about the world, to search for meaning instead of purpose.

Some say apes are sapient. Some say Cnidaria (jellyfish and polyps) are not sentient, even though they have a nervous system. What is clear is that at least 99.999% of animal species is not sapient, and that all sponges and all non-animal life forms on earth are not sentient.

I'm well aware that it's generally said- doesn't make it true just because it's printed in some films book. However if being published in a book is the benchmark for being accurate, there's some books and articles on POTA that I'm sure could spark some more discussion here about factual vs opinion.

 

Chris L.

Very Un-Boullian. 

I have almost zero respect for BENEATH -- a botched sequel that never should have happened.

I'm well aware that it's generally said- doesn't make it true just because it's printed in some films book. However if being published in a book is the benchmark for being accurate, there's some books and articles on POTA that I'm sure could spark some more discussion here about factual vs opinion.

 

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
>> Well, I was trying to bring a distinction between bestiality and a cross-species sexual relationship between two intelligent species (like what happens in Star Trek).
>
> Yes, but I believe the idea behind this aspect of "Star Trek" is that all the humanoid (which I think is a better term to use than sapian)

Yet humanoid only describes their physical appearance. I'm talking about intelligence, which is why sapient was the correct term. You seem hung up with the idea that sapient means human.

> species in our galaxy share a common, advanced ancestor that "seeded" the humanoid genes across many worlds. I'm not enough of a Star Trek fan to point to specific times this is mentioned or speculated about in all of Star Trek-dom, but I think it goes back to the original series.

I was talking about sexual relationships between different species who share intelligence. Star Trek shows that, and has done so before the idea about a common seed became part of its story (Spock from the pilot episode). Still, Star Trek was only an example and there are other examples where such things can be cited (Avatar springs to mind... even though it's not what I'd call good science fiction, but that's only my opinion, etc).

>
> POTA, though, is different. Humans can't breed with apes, and the three differing species of apes in POTA can't even cross-breed with each other, so, for me anyway, the entire idea of a human/ape hybrid is anathema to POTA at its very core.

Well, it was seriously pondered, hence the ape-human hybrid character that was created but pulled in Beneath. Also, many sexual relationships don't involve procreation, like homosexuality, as well as couples who are dead set against having children, so who's to say that an ape-human relationship couldn't happen if both species were sapient (or whatever word you want to call such a quality). Also, if we're going to go down the genetic manipulation route, as Rise and the (sorry in advance) Burton films have done, then that adds some scope to the widening of the possibilities of cross-species procreation (change the genetics, you change the natural barriers).

Still, I don't really want this issue to dominate PotA and have no strong clamour for it, but I do think it's a valid question that doesn't have to be shied away from simply because of its "urgh!" factor.

Graham

They can not change anyone's eye color to blue.

What's the difference when it stops making a dent? When it's under $ 1 million a week worldwide it's over, sir.

"Rise" is still playing in my dollar theaters. Maybe I'll go see it again to wish it bon voyage. The king is dead, loooong live the king!

Wasn't that hybrid kid from Planet of the Men?

But couldn't the after effects of a nuclear holocaust altered what the gorillas did and how they behaved? I mean, if you accept the premise of talking apes, it's not hard to imagine that different aspects of their behavior changed.

 

Chris L.

This isn't POTA, or even Frankenstein exactly, but . . .

I had a strange encounter with Peter Weller this weekend.

Two very different characters, and the Lawgiver of BATTLE is definitely in the alternate timeline. As I recall some of the Marvel stories had a Lawgiver as well, so the notion that some have suggested of Lawgiver being a title rather than an individual actually works well in the alternate timeline.

 

That being said, it kind of makes sense the Lawgiver referred to in PLANET and BENEATH was a specific individual who was revered by the ape society, who wrote the Sacred Scrolls, etc.

 

 

Chris L.

Apes is a ever ending resource for deep debate! John, Scrolls.

I picked up, by chance for a measly pound, Pierre Boulle's autobiographical 'The Source of the River Kwai', describing his time in Indochina etc during WW11.It's a wonderful read---his detatched cynicism gives some laugh out loud moments.I'd love to have known this man.Chapter 3 is 'Annam'---is it too much of a stretch to see there the origin of the name 'Zanam',one of Meou's gorilla attendants? John, Scrolls.

Because that's the topic, where "Rise" will end up on the box office charts.

That's an interesting point--you COULD argue that both Taylor and Merou were victims of sexual assault, inasmuch as they were both compelled by circumstance to mate with Nova

It's still making money even if it's only making a dollar a day!   What's the obsession with big bucks?  This is when tracking the grosses starts to become distasteful.  You shouldn't quailfy your love of a movie by how much it grosses.

Wasn't that hybrid kid from Planet of the Men?

Was it?

"carnivorous gorillas" seems a little goofy to me.

It wasn't anything in a public restroom, was it? 

YES!  And I am a "Master Debator"!!!!

 

Couldn't resist.