Fitting that today is the birthday of the actor who played Mendex XXVI.

And speaking of Mendez XXVI, remember the final installement of The Mendez Dynasty this Friday.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
> Reminder from: pota Yahoo! Group
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/cal
>
> Paul Richards was born on this day in 1924
> Wednesday November 23, 2011
> All Day
> (This event repeats every year.)
>
> Notes:
> Mendez in Beneath
>
>
> All Rights Reserved
> Copyright © 2011
> Yahoo! Inc.
> http://www.yahoo.com
>
> Privacy Policy:
> http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us
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> Terms of Service:
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I wasn't previously aware that Paul Richards (Mendez) died at age 50, not long after filming Beneath:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Richards_(actor)

Right around the time of his Dec. 1974 death, they announced the cancellation of the Apes television series.

As for the Mendez Dynasty, I have enjoyed how it has enabled me to find answers to questions I'd long had about how those mutants became like they were (will be). The publication will be a tough act to follow...


__

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "jamesa1102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
>
> Fitting that today is the birthday of the actor who played Mendex XXVI.
>
>
>
> And speaking of Mendez XXVI, remember the final installement of The
> Mendez Dynasty this Friday.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, pota@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> >
> > Reminder from: pota Yahoo! Group
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/cal
> >
> > Paul Richards was born on this day in 1924
> > Wednesday November 23, 2011
> > All Day
> > (This event repeats every year.)
> >
> > Notes:
> > Mendez in Beneath
> >
> >
> > All Rights Reserved
> > Copyright © 2011
> > Yahoo! Inc.
> > http://www.yahoo.com
> >
> > Privacy Policy:
> > http://privacy.yahoo.com/privacy/us
> >
> > Terms of Service:
> >
> >
>

http://listentoamovie.com/listen.php?title=Planet%20of%20the%20Apes%20%281968%29&file=/media/./5.%20Just%20Added/Planet%20of%20the%20Apes%20%281968%29.mp3

--

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "georgetaylor68" <georgetaylor68@...> wrote:

>
> Isn't it a relief that Rise didn't wind up being the originally planned film about a Frankenstein-like chimp kept in someone's home, locked away in a cage? That story might have landed Rise in the Top 10 flop$ of 2011 list, which I hereby share while giving thanks:
>
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/29/us-flops-idUSTRE75S7CU20110629
>
> Happy Thanksgiving from Houston :-)
>

That's a good thing! The story was a lot nicer...though it
could have been better, or more story presented and not edited.

Enjoy the festivities all!

I didn't know that Arthur Jacobs is portrayed in the new movie "My Week With Marilyn", which is getting lots of Oscar buzz. Arthur was Marilyn Monroe's publicist. He's played by Toby Jones, who was Truman Capote opposite Sandra Bullock and was in "Capt. America", etc. Kind of a good year for Arthur on screen, including the cool nod in "Rise". Here's a picture of Jones in the role (if the link works):

http://www.allmoviephoto.com/photo/2011_my_week_with_marilyn_016.html"

And here's a review:

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/motion-captured/posts/review-michelle-williams-finds-the-bruised-soul-of-my-week-with-marilyn

Attachments :

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three musketeers-67094.jpg
heston 67-67094.jpg
heston 67-67094(1).jpg
el cid.jpg

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.html<.html

Attachments :

ursus-67100.jpg
ursus-67100(1).jpg
planet (2)-67100.jpg
planet (2)-67100(1).jpg

.html<.html

That's the first time I've seen "Rise" brought up as a Best Picture nominee but I think it has a shot. People really like it (it seems to be going over well at the Academy screenings). "Harry Potter" is getting a big push and might get a nomination as a nod to all the films. They seem to be the only two of the big summer movies with a shot. Maybe they could be seen as the "District 9" and "Avatar" of the year, which both got Best Picture nominations a couple years ago.


From: Haristas@...
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 9:06 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: FW: Google Alert - "planet of the apes"




I'm not quite sure where the author on the Best Picture Oscar is coming from regarding RISE. I guess he's implying that RISE and the last Harry Potter movie are the only two movies that are shoe-ins for nominations, but that's a surprise to me. I thought RISE was good, but though I think it's a possibility, I'll still be surprised if RISE gets a Best Picture nomination.

http://www.awardsdaily.com/2011/11/the-state-of-the-race-the-wide-open-landscape-of-the-best-picture-race/

For some reason my take is that Apes and Harry are the long shots in the way hes phrasing the paragraph, must look again. Take care, Happy Turkey to all and I hope my life gets alittle less convoluted. Love, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
> I'm not quite sure where the author on the Best Picture Oscar is coming from regarding RISE. I guess he's implying that RISE and the last Harry Potter movie are the only two movies that are shoe-ins for nominations, but that's a surprise to me. I thought RISE was good, but though I think it's a possibility, I'll still be surprised if RISE gets a Best Picture nomination.
>
> http://www.awardsdaily.com/2011/11/the-state-of-the-race-the-wide-open-landscape-of-the-best-picture-race/
>
>

.html

Reminder from:		pota Yahoo! Group
Title:		Ricardo Montalban was born on this day in 1920
Date:		Friday November 25, 2011
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every year.
Notes:		Armando in Escape & Conquest
Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options

Copyright © 2011  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | <.html

.html

>>What is truth? Let's get sapient about that.

You know, I think sapient is going to become my favorite word -- at least for a while. <<<.html

.html

>>It's also been 3 years since Fox's Tom Rothman officially announced

on the Fox Movie Channel that they were doing a new "Apes". Time flies. <<<.html

.html

>>I don't know, but for me, after a certain point, I'm not willing to

use nuclear radiation as an explaination for anything and everything. In THEM!, for instance, I can accept that fallout from bomb experiments creates mutant giant ants, but I really don't believe it, but I have to forget that in order to go with the movie's premise.

With POTA I'm willing to accept that apes can become human-like in just a few years or centuries -- and not have any scientific explanation at all, as was the case with Boulle's book and the original film series -- because the premise leaves you to ponder for yourself how it came to be, but at a certain point I want it to keep true to the creatures' basic natures, and "carnivorous gorillas" seems a little goofy to me. <<

>>But couldn't the after effects of a nuclear holocaust altered what

the gorillas did and how they behaved? I mean, if you accept the premise of talking apes, it's not hard to imagine that different aspects of their behavior changed. <<<.html

.html

>>Well, it looks like we agree on at least a few things. Glad to hear

you're not a timelooper (who really seem to me to be a minority of POTA fans, despite anything Dehn said).

But, I think that in PLANET it's pretty clear there was only one "greatest ape of them all," the Lawgiver. There was only one, and it was he that tamed the simian society. << <.html

.html

>>Well, today is the day Fox moved "Rise of the Apes" to before they

moved it back to Aug. 5th (and changed it to "Rise of the POTA"). Would it have done better? Worse? Dunno.<<<.html

Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving yesterday. The final installment of THE MENDEZ DYNASTY is now online. I want to thank Chris Lawless, Dave Ballard and Glen Scheetz for their support and advice on this project which began almost 2 years ago. 

To read the final MENDEZ biography, click on the banner on the Yahoo Home page or use this link: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MD.htm.

Also, an improved version of the Beneath NATO film is now available on the Group website (http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/Misc./Stuff/BNATO.htm) and on the mirror site (http://www.potamediaarchive.com/BNATO.htm).

Have a great weekend everyone!

Visit all the Group's special features including:

• The Internal Website - Original POTA One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and much, much more.
• Marvel Archive

- Online archive of Marvel Comics' adaptations of the original POTA movies. Lessons from the Lawgiver – Words of wisdom from the Greatest Ape of All. Cornelius' Journal - The Memoirs of Dr. Cornelius. Ape City Chronicles - The history of Ape City's first 75 years, written by Virgil. The Illustrated Monkey Planet - Hungarian comic adaptation of Pierre Boulle's original novel. POTA Locations - The places where the POTA films were shot. The Art Gallery - Works of POTA Art by our members. The Database Section - POTA info ranging from Characters to Comics. The Photos Section - POTA pics contributed by members.

.html<.html

Again, as with the clothes, how do they know the concept of the Lawgiver? Either Cornelius and Zira told Armando this stuff and he passed it on to Caesar or there's a lot of fate involved, which is just like the circular timeline. Things are destined to happen.


From: lawford42@...
Sent: Thursday, November 24, 2011 8:37 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: New Thread




It seems that way. I think the issue boils down to where you draw the line in terms of what information is and is not included. I've said on a few occasions that there's what Dehn said, and then there's the final product. Often the two are at cross purposes. If you strictly use what shown (or mentioned) in the films and television series and nothing else and take everything at face value, there's more to support the alternate timeline. However, if you start factoring in earlier drafts of scripts, interviews with the writers etc then those who believe it's a closed loop have more to support their idea. And to be clear, there's plenty of info to support both.

To quote what's recently been said though, neither opinion should cancel one's enjoyment of any or all components of the series.

As far as what you said about the Lawgiver in PLANET I'd agree with you that there was only one who was unique to that specific history and chain of events. However, since things happen differently after the events of ESCAPE, the new ape society could have taken the concept of the Lawgiver and applied it differently.


Chris L.

I'll miss the Mendez Dynasty's weekly chronicles. Won't you?

Judging from the final installment today, it would seem that the mutant underdwellers provoked the Apes into invading. If the underdwellers hadn't gotten aggressive with the gorilla troops in the Forbidden Zone, would the ultimately fatal ape invasion have still happened? Perhaps they would have, instead, remained undiscovered.

In Beneath the Planet of the Apes, Dr. Zaius and Ursus gave credence to this notion. There were reports of bizarre happenings in the Forbidden Zone at apes' expense, which Taylor's arrival prompted them to interpret nonpeacefully. The end result was the blast heard round the world, as well as near the wormhole that Cornelius, Milo and Zira were about to enter. Should the underdwelling mutants have simply left well enough alone and remained inconspicuous?

By the way, might you have seen the Star Trek: Next Generations episode in which "Q" snapped his fingers and sent the Enterprise temporarily out near, I believe, the Delta Quadrant? I believe that's where the Borg first discovered (and pursued) them. Had that never happened, The Borg likely wouldn't have subsequently discovered and hounded the Enterprise and others in our own section of the universe. Unlike the Enterprise's crew, though, perhaps the underdwellers in Beneath deserve at least some of the blame for what ultimately happened to them? I mean shouldn't they have remained hidden from the apes? Or was it time to engage them as they did, in order to better prepare for what might happen in a possible surprise attack by the simians? Perhaps the underdwellers' biggest mistake was underestimating Taylor's cleverness, as well as his disdain for fellow Earthlings.

Either way, thanks to all who helped make the Mendez Dynasty available to us. It answered previously unanswered and even undiscovered questions that I'd had. I think the only question I never found an answer to is where Return's Bill, Jeff & Judy (aka "USA") fit into all of this. Perhaps that cartoon existence isn't part of the same universe, what with its Boullean elements and such?

How did the apes come to call their moral leader the Lawgiver? Obviously if it's a circular timeline, things will happen again. If not, it's just coincidence that that title was used again? Or did Cornelius and Zira talk about their Lawgiver and Caesar learned of this and put it into his culture? I guess coincidences do happen but I would find the latter more believable.
The Lawgiver isn't in their time period but Caesar could have put the idea of a moral leader named the Lawgiver into their culture.


From: Haristas@...
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:47 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: Clothes Encounters






Again, as with the clothes, how do they know the concept of the Lawgiver? Either Cornelius and Zira told Armando this stuff and he passed it on to Caesar or there's a lot of fate involved, which is just like the circular timeline. Things are destined to happen.



How does who know about the concept of the Lawgiver? To whom are you referring? To my knowledge, Armando, Caesar, Virgil, non of these persons knew of the Lawgiver. They lived centuries before the time of the Lawgiver.

I also disagree on the "style without substance" charge. It dealt with a lot of issues, issues that hadn't been dealt with in a POTA movie before (unless the point of a POTA movie is to repeat the same stuff over and over). I thought it was a unique take on the the start of the POTA. It worked as foreshadow of the POTA ( the first human locked in a cage, the first ape to speak). Instead of remaking "Conquest" they did it their own way. True, the audience has to kinda fill in the blanks, and what would it be if there were no sequels to show the POTA? But now they can show the POTA in the sequels so it will all tie in.
It's just funny how the general public enjoyed the movie more than many Ape fans.


From: Haristas@...
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:42 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: Who's seeing "Rise of the Apes" today?




The first one is that the story is crassly manipulative into making you feel bad for Caesar.

Crassly? I don't know. Making you feel bad for Caesar is kind of the entire point of the excercise, and if that's crass, then I don't know what. Is BLACK BEAUTY or LASSIE or MY DOG SPOT crass?

I've said it before and can only repeat- it had NOTHING to do with Planet of the Apes in any way, shape, or form.

Others here agree with this, Hunter being one, I think -- but I disagree. It's POTA, and the one authority in this matter is -- and you have to respect it -- is FOX. If Twentieth Century Fox says it's POTA, then it's POTA.

The POTA2001 debacle is something I'd like to say isn't POTA, but I know I don't get to decide that.

Anyway.... glad you FINALLY saw RISE (Disagree with this was literally style without substance. There was substance). I guess you just don't like going to the movies or paying more that $3 to get in.

-- Rory

And as far as "Rise" and the Oscars, I hear Spielberg's "War Horse" is a "manipulative" animal movie and it's supposedly a front runner. Maybe the two movies will complement each other in the Oscar race.


From: Haristas@...
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 9:42 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: Who's seeing "Rise of the Apes" today?




The first one is that the story is crassly manipulative into making you feel bad for Caesar.

Crassly? I don't know. Making you feel bad for Caesar is kind of the entire point of the excercise, and if that's crass, then I don't know what. Is BLACK BEAUTY or LASSIE or MY DOG SPOT crass?

I've said it before and can only repeat- it had NOTHING to do with Planet of the Apes in any way, shape, or form.

Others here agree with this, Hunter being one, I think -- but I disagree. It's POTA, and the one authority in this matter is -- and you have to respect it -- is FOX. If Twentieth Century Fox says it's POTA, then it's POTA.

The POTA2001 debacle is something I'd like to say isn't POTA, but I know I don't get to decide that.

Anyway.... glad you FINALLY saw RISE (Disagree with this was literally style without substance. There was substance). I guess you just don't like going to the movies or paying more that $3 to get in.

-- Rory

.html

 

Thank you!  That's one of the things that was annoying about

the Burton film.  All those nods to the original are just distracting

Are we apes that they think they need to throw Easter Eggs as treats?

 

 

In a message dated 11/25/2011 5:19:29 A.M. Central Standard Time, lawford42@... writes:

The second one was the "clever" references which were just f'ing annoying. Franklin, Jacobs, Buck, Cornelia, Alpha, Docket- I'm sure there were more (and yes, I'm ignoring the whole Icarus on Mars thing). It shows that the script was more gimmicks than actual story.

<.html

.html

 

I wouldn't be that hard on Rise. POTA2K1 I would, if only because it almost seems like they set out to make a conglomeration of SPFX Flash, no substance, Saturday matinee pulp.  Granted it is tough to pull off a surprise ending, especially when the audience is looking for it. I was never fooled by Sixth Sense. And I'm sure there was someone out there who wasn't surprised by The Usual Suspects. But they acted like no one had ever read the book. And to just say it was kicked off by Thade getting back before him wasn't much of a cherry on that poorly polished turd. I do feel that Rise went a bit long on the beginning. Not so much as a comment on the pacing of POTA2K1, but as a cost saving measure on the CG animation of the battle.

 

 

In a message dated 11/25/2011 11:54:39 A.M. Central Standard Time, Haristas@... writes:

The POTA2001 debacle is something I'd like to say isn't POTA, but I know I don't get to decide that.

<.html

.html

 

I think we're agreed that Burton's was style over substance.

I think that Rise went small then big not only as a cost saving

measure, but also because actors love to act, and indie is in

style in Hollywood, not only because it draws in actors budgets

wouldn't otherwise allow. But it gives then a chance to chew up

the scenery and get a shot at an award.  Someone mentioned

Star Trek.  I hated the episodes of Star Trek where they threw

a bone to an emotionlessly character, like a Vulcan, or Android,

or Borg, and gave them some excuse to go through their entire

range.  More of an acting exercise than an episode.  Actors

will act. They will Over Act!  The real challenge is to NOT act.

 

 

In a message dated 11/25/2011 4:00:48 P.M. Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

I also disagree on the "style without substance" charge.

<.html

Spielberg said there's only 3 seconds of CG in "War Horse", for 3 shots that were too dangerous for the horses.
His CG spectacular is "Tin Tin" (thanks to the Rise of Andy Serkis and WETA).


From: Haristas@...
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 4:33 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: Who's seeing "Rise of the Apes" today?






And as far as "Rise" and the Oscars, I hear Spielberg's "War Horse" is a "manipulative" animal movie and it's supposedly a front runner. Maybe the two movies will complement each other in the Oscar race.




I'm looking forward to WAR HORSE. I'll bet it uses a few CGI horses? I can't "imagine" Spielberg would endanger any real horses.

Hey, did you know that Frank Schaffner actually had that mule shot dead for PATTON? Times have changed, that and PATTON was "shot" in Spain, where "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?"

I've enjoyed this excellent chronicle tremendously--I'm sad we're at the end.Mendez XXVI has always fascinated me--his motivations and true mission are so inscrutable.Well done and thanks to everyone who gave us 'Dynasty'---even though Blake Carrington and Joan Collins COULD have added a little glamour! Thanks.John, Scrolls.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "jamesa1102" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
> Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving yesterday. The final installment
> of THE MENDEZ DYNASTY is now online. I want to thank Chris Lawless, Dave
> Ballard and Glen Scheetz for their support and advice on this project
> which began almost 2 years ago.
> To read the final MENDEZ biography, click on the banner on the Yahoo
> Home page or use this link:
> http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MD.htm
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MD.htm> .
>
> Also, an improved version of the Beneath NATO film is now available on
> the Group website
> (http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/Misc./Stuff/BNATO.htm
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/Misc./Stuff/BNATO.htm>
> ) and on the mirror site (http://www.potamediaarchive.com/BNATO.htm
> <http://www.potamediaarchive.com/BNATO.htm> ).
>
> Have a great weekend everyone!
>
> Visit all the Group's special features including:
>
> * The Internal Website
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MainPage.htm> - Original POTA
> One Sheets & Lobby Cards, Trailers & Rare Videos, Trading Cards and
> much, much more. * <http://tinyurl.com/2uy7v7c> Marvel Archive
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/Marvel.htm>
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/Marvel.htm> - Online
> archive of Marvel Comics' adaptations of the original POTA movies. *
> Lessons from the Lawgiver
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/LFTL.htm> – Words
> of wisdom from the Greatest Ape of All. * Cornelius' Journal
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/CJ.htm> - The Memoirs
> of Dr. Cornelius. * Ape City Chronicles
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/ACC.htm> - The history
> of Ape City's first 75 years, written by Virgil. * The Illustrated
> Monkey Planet <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/MPC.htm>
> - Hungarian comic adaptation of Pierre Boulle's original novel. *
> POTA Locations
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/POTAlocations.htm> -
> The places where the POTA films were shot. * The Art Gallery
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/TheArtGallery.htm> -
> Works of POTA Art by our members. * The Database Section
> <http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/database> - POTA info
> ranging from Characters to Comics. * The Photos Section
> <http://movies.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/photos> - POTA pics
> contributed by members.
>

And didn't they have to film the Bull segment of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid in Mexico, because it was illegal to put acid on a bull's balls in the US? Times have changed---but only very recently.Burton's Apes used live Apes, which, imho, was morally wrong---animals in studios can never be right, can it? War Horse has the wonderful Tom Hiddlestone, so it should be good, but a good Spielberg film nowadays is very rare.I hope he avoids a coma inducing dollop of sugar at the end.Horses, outside a studio, are fine by me--it's become a part of the horse work world for horses.Studios are oppressive places for animals, however.John, Scrolls.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Spielberg said there's only 3 seconds of CG in "War Horse", for 3 shots that were too dangerous for the horses.
> His CG spectacular is "Tin Tin" (thanks to the Rise of Andy Serkis and WETA).
>
>
> From: Haristas@...
> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 4:33 PM
> To: pota@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [pota] Re: Who's seeing "Rise of the Apes" today?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> And as far as "Rise" and the Oscars, I hear Spielberg's "War Horse" is a "manipulative" animal movie and it's supposedly a front runner. Maybe the two movies will complement each other in the Oscar race.
>
>
>
>
> I'm looking forward to WAR HORSE. I'll bet it uses a few CGI horses? I can't "imagine" Spielberg would endanger any real horses.
>
> Hey, did you know that Frank Schaffner actually had that mule shot dead for PATTON? Times have changed, that and PATTON was "shot" in Spain, where "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?"
>

Empire Magazine is accepting nominations for next year's Jameson's Whiskey film awards---I've done my RISE duty for the film,Rupert and Andy and maybe ,if enough of us chip in, we could get them on the ballot.That would keep Apes in the public eye.John, Scrolls.

Attachments :

planet - Copy (3)-67130.jpg
planet - Copy (3)-67130(1).jpg
planet - Copy (2)-67130.jpg
planet - Copy (2)-67130(1).jpg
planet (3).jpg

.html<.html

Thanks George. Glad you enjoyed The Mendez Dynasty. To answer your question, it was decided that the Return series was part of a different continuity or universe from the films so it was not included. Hope that didn't spoil your enjoyment of the Mendez Dynasty.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "georgetaylor68" <georgetaylor68@...> wrote:
>
> I'll miss the Mendez Dynasty's weekly chronicles. Won't you?
>
> Judging from the final installment today, it would seem that the mutant underdwellers provoked the Apes into invading. If the underdwellers hadn't gotten aggressive with the gorilla troops in the Forbidden Zone, would the ultimately fatal ape invasion have still happened? Perhaps they would have, instead, remained undiscovered.
>
> In Beneath the Planet of the Apes, Dr. Zaius and Ursus gave credence to this notion. There were reports of bizarre happenings in the Forbidden Zone at apes' expense, which Taylor's arrival prompted them to interpret nonpeacefully. The end result was the blast heard round the world, as well as near the wormhole that Cornelius, Milo and Zira were about to enter. Should the underdwelling mutants have simply left well enough alone and remained inconspicuous?
>
> By the way, might you have seen the Star Trek: Next Generations episode in which "Q" snapped his fingers and sent the Enterprise temporarily out near, I believe, the Delta Quadrant? I believe that's where the Borg first discovered (and pursued) them. Had that never happened, The Borg likely wouldn't have subsequently discovered and hounded the Enterprise and others in our own section of the universe. Unlike the Enterprise's crew, though, perhaps the underdwellers in Beneath deserve at least some of the blame for what ultimately happened to them? I mean shouldn't they have remained hidden from the apes? Or was it time to engage them as they did, in order to better prepare for what might happen in a possible surprise attack by the simians? Perhaps the underdwellers' biggest mistake was underestimating Taylor's cleverness, as well as his disdain for fellow Earthlings.
>
> Either way, thanks to all who helped make the Mendez Dynasty available to us. It answered previously unanswered and even undiscovered questions that I'd had. I think the only question I never found an answer to is where Return's Bill, Jeff & Judy (aka "USA") fit into all of this. Perhaps that cartoon existence isn't part of the same universe, what with its Boullean elements and such?
>

Thanks John, glad you liked it. Hope you'll enjoy our new weekly feature that will be starting next friday.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "johnroche49" <johnroche49@...> wrote:
>
> I've enjoyed this excellent chronicle tremendously--I'm sad we're at the end.Mendez XXVI has always fascinated me--his motivations and true mission are so inscrutable.Well done and thanks to everyone who gave us 'Dynasty'---even though Blake Carrington and Joan Collins COULD have added a little glamour! Thanks.John, Scrolls.
>

.html

On 11/25/2011 11:42 AM, Haristas@... wrote:

I've said it before and can only repeat- it had NOTHING to do with Planet of the Apes in any way, shape, or form.

Others here agree with this, Hunter being one, I think -- but I disagree. It's POTA, and the one authority in this matter is -- and you have to respect it -- is FOX. If Twentieth Century Fox says it's POTA, then it's POTA.

They can say it is all they want, but the new movie, as much as I liked it, has nothing to do with the classic Apes movies. Even if they want to call it a prequel, it'll tell a similar story, but it still has nothing to do with the original films.

The POTA2001 debacle is something I'd like to say isn't POTA, but I know I don't get to decide that.

Sure you do. It may have had the same name, and it borrowed some ideas (talking apes), but it has even less to do with classic Apes than the new film. Fox can call it that or not, but anybody who watches it can see that it's a completely different (crappy) bird that just shares a name.

Hunter

<.html

.html James has created a 2012 calendar to celebrate the 40th anniversary of Conquest of the Planet of the Apes!  You can download the PDF calendar from my Apes site:

https://pota.goatley.com/

Thanks, James!

-- 
Hunter
------
Hunter Goatley, Process Software, http://www.process.com/
goathunter@...   http://hunter.goatley.com/

<.html

Pierre Boulle was an old school guy who didn't like the idea of nukes as the cause of the POTA (he called it "a temptation from the Devil", as Eric Greene likes to point out). He probably didn't even like Earth as the setting. He didn't even like movies much. Probably the CG alone would've been enough for him to write off "Rise". I think it's hard for many authors to watch someone else's telling of their story.
But the medical lab stuff certainly is closer to what Boulle envisioned.


From: Haristas@...
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 8:45 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: Who's seeing "Rise of the Apes" today?






Sure you do. It may have had the same name, and it borrowed some ideas (talking apes), but it has even less to do with classic Apes than the new film. Fox can call it that or not, but anybody who watches it can see that it's a completely different (crappy) bird that just shares a name.

Hunter



Well, I'm for any movement that pushes the Burton debacle deep into the "Forbidden Zone of Forgotten Crap Movies," because after all, the movie is akin to a horrible bowel movement that once you flush is never thought of again, but this certainly isn't the case with RISE.

RISE is POTA not just because Fox says it is, but I think also because its sensibilities are very much like certain aspects of the original and its sequels.

I also think Pierre Boulle would have liked RISE.

There's been zero collectibles for "Rise of the POTA". But maybe "Rise" collectibles should come from the source. Besides doing FX for movies, WETA also has their own line of collectibles, mostly based on the movies they worked on: "Lord of the Rings", "King Kong", "District 9" and now "Tin Tin". Maybe they don't do the Fox movies because I don't see any "Avatar" stuff but "Rise" would seem to be a natural. These high end collectibles are a little rich for my blood but I do have one of their King Kongs. They do good work and I'm sure it helps that they created the characters for the movies.

http://www.wetanz.com/collectibles/

You have some interesting points here and I was wondering some of the same things you address here. I recently re-watched all the Apes films on my new Blu-Rays which I'm really stoked about by the way.

What really could have been explained a little better in Beneath was it had been said that someone was raiding the Apes food supply. How did they come to the conclusion that it was someone other than the "dumb" humans. Was it because of the discovery of astronauts Taylor and Landon who were believed to have sprung up from the Forbidden Zone?

Were the mutants coming out from their underground dwellings and raiding the apes food supply? I know that the mutants had captured some Ape scouts and understand that the scouts' disappearance raised some suspicions. Anyways, although not implicitly stated in Beneath, I tend to think that it was suspicions about astronauts Taylor and Landon that may have been one of the motivating factors for the Ape Soldiers going into the Forbidden Zone.

I think the mutants could have remained undiscovered had they just confused the ape scouts by implanting false memories in the gorillas' heads and then sending them back to Ape City--instead of just frying/messing up their minds. Maybe they could have done a jedi mind trick--"you didn't see the mutants behind the curtain." So it may have been possible for the mutants to remain inconspicuous had the gorilla scouts not gone missing. Could the mutants have remained undiscovered? It's possible. However, the Ape's questions about Taylor and Landon's origins may have still been the catalyst to lead to the mutants' discovery--even if the scouts had not disappeared.

But also, I tend to think that the Apes would not have allowed an armed human, in this case astronaut Taylor, to remain on the loose in the Forbidden Zone. I believe the Apes would have still pursued Taylor into the Forbidden Zone--which could have still possibly and unintentionally led to the discovery of the mutant city.

As an ape, I would not have believed Taylor's story about arriving via a spaceship. I would have been concerned that Taylor had sprung from the Forbidden Zone and if he had more people like him out there, then he might be going to get help or to raise an army against the apes. I mean, I doubt that many of the orangutans/apes really believed Taylor's story about coming to their planet from a spaceship.

Another thing too, why didn't the apes punish Zaius for not pursuing Taylor. After destroying the cave, Zaius could have simply waited for Taylor to get up the beach a little ways and then sent the gorillas to ambush him. I mean Taylor was a pretty serious threat--an intelligent human who had a mate--someone to help him keep the line going and create a whole race of intelligent humans. How could Zaius not pursue him and then just go back to Ape City?

On another note, one thing that always bugged me about the mutants was how easy it was for the Apes to invade the city. I mean yes, their illusions of the hanging apes and the Law Giver failed, but couldn't the mutants use their collective mental powers and do that whole sonic deterent thing on them. Although Zaius could see through the illusions, could he really defeat the whole sonic deterrent thing and the pain it could cause, etc.? The mutants didn't need to be physically present to see the Apes marching on their city or to use their mental powers. The mutants could have caused just two of the weaker-minded marching gorillas to use their machine guns to mow down huge numbers of apes before being gunned down themselves. Once those two gorillas were gunned down, the mutants could then take over the minds of two more gorillas to take their place, and so on and so on, etc. Then all the marching apes would have killed themselves/each other in a barrage of gunfire before reaching the mutant city. Just sayin.' But of course, the movie would have been much shorter.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "georgetaylor68" <georgetaylor68@...> wrote:
>
> I'll miss the Mendez Dynasty's weekly chronicles. Won't you?
>
> Judging from the final installment today, it would seem that the mutant underdwellers provoked the Apes into invading. If the underdwellers hadn't gotten aggressive with the gorilla troops in the Forbidden Zone, would the ultimately fatal ape invasion have still happened? Perhaps they would have, instead, remained undiscovered.
>
> In Beneath the Planet of the Apes, Dr. Zaius and Ursus gave credence to this notion. There were reports of bizarre happenings in the Forbidden Zone at apes' expense, which Taylor's arrival prompted them to interpret nonpeacefully. The end result was the blast heard round the world, as well as near the wormhole that Cornelius, Milo and Zira were about to enter. Should the underdwelling mutants have simply left well enough alone and remained inconspicuous?
>
> By the way, might you have seen the Star Trek: Next Generations episode in which "Q" snapped his fingers and sent the Enterprise temporarily out near, I believe, the Delta Quadrant? I believe that's where the Borg first discovered (and pursued) them. Had that never happened, The Borg likely wouldn't have subsequently discovered and hounded the Enterprise and others in our own section of the universe. Unlike the Enterprise's crew, though, perhaps the underdwellers in Beneath deserve at least some of the blame for what ultimately happened to them? I mean shouldn't they have remained hidden from the apes? Or was it time to engage them as they did, in order to better prepare for what might happen in a possible surprise attack by the simians? Perhaps the underdwellers' biggest mistake was underestimating Taylor's cleverness, as well as his disdain for fellow Earthlings.
>
> Either way, thanks to all who helped make the Mendez Dynasty available to us. It answered previously unanswered and even undiscovered questions that I'd had. I think the only question I never found an answer to is where Return's Bill, Jeff & Judy (aka "USA") fit into all of this. Perhaps that cartoon existence isn't part of the same universe, what with its Boullean elements and such?
>

Attachments :

Starlog Photo Guidebook - TV Episode Guides Vol 02.pdf

.html<.html

.html<.html

Sounds like you did read it. LOL

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
> My answer would be that the mutants lived on fungus, the psychotropic effects of some strains could help explain the mutants' eventual mental powers, and they would use their own waste to grow the fungus in. Kind of disgusting -- but they're mutants, so what do you want?
>

Welcome to the gorup Jeremiah! You make some very good points here. Looking forward to hearing more.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "JEREMIAH APE" <rv.cupp01@...> wrote:
>
> You have some interesting points here and I was wondering some of the same things you address here. I recently re-watched all the Apes films on my new Blu-Rays which I'm really stoked about by the way.
>
> What really could have been explained a little better in Beneath was it had been said that someone was raiding the Apes food supply. How did they come to the conclusion that it was someone other than the "dumb" humans. Was it because of the discovery of astronauts Taylor and Landon who were believed to have sprung up from the Forbidden Zone?
>
> Were the mutants coming out from their underground dwellings and raiding the apes food supply? I know that the mutants had captured some Ape scouts and understand that the scouts' disappearance raised some suspicions. Anyways, although not implicitly stated in Beneath, I tend to think that it was suspicions about astronauts Taylor and Landon that may have been one of the motivating factors for the Ape Soldiers going into the Forbidden Zone.
>
> I think the mutants could have remained undiscovered had they just confused the ape scouts by implanting false memories in the gorillas' heads and then sending them back to Ape City--instead of just frying/messing up their minds. Maybe they could have done a jedi mind trick--"you didn't see the mutants behind the curtain." So it may have been possible for the mutants to remain inconspicuous had the gorilla scouts not gone missing. Could the mutants have remained undiscovered? It's possible. However, the Ape's questions about Taylor and Landon's origins may have still been the catalyst to lead to the mutants' discovery--even if the scouts had not disappeared.
>
> But also, I tend to think that the Apes would not have allowed an armed human, in this case astronaut Taylor, to remain on the loose in the Forbidden Zone. I believe the Apes would have still pursued Taylor into the Forbidden Zone--which could have still possibly and unintentionally led to the discovery of the mutant city.
>
> As an ape, I would not have believed Taylor's story about arriving via a spaceship. I would have been concerned that Taylor had sprung from the Forbidden Zone and if he had more people like him out there, then he might be going to get help or to raise an army against the apes. I mean, I doubt that many of the orangutans/apes really believed Taylor's story about coming to their planet from a spaceship.
>
> Another thing too, why didn't the apes punish Zaius for not pursuing Taylor. After destroying the cave, Zaius could have simply waited for Taylor to get up the beach a little ways and then sent the gorillas to ambush him. I mean Taylor was a pretty serious threat--an intelligent human who had a mate--someone to help him keep the line going and create a whole race of intelligent humans. How could Zaius not pursue him and then just go back to Ape City?
>
> On another note, one thing that always bugged me about the mutants was how easy it was for the Apes to invade the city. I mean yes, their illusions of the hanging apes and the Law Giver failed, but couldn't the mutants use their collective mental powers and do that whole sonic deterent thing on them. Although Zaius could see through the illusions, could he really defeat the whole sonic deterrent thing and the pain it could cause, etc.? The mutants didn't need to be physically present to see the Apes marching on their city or to use their mental powers. The mutants could have caused just two of the weaker-minded marching gorillas to use their machine guns to mow down huge numbers of apes before being gunned down themselves. Once those two gorillas were gunned down, the mutants could then take over the minds of two more gorillas to take their place, and so on and so on, etc. Then all the marching apes would have killed themselves/each other in a barrage of gunfire before reaching the mutant city. Just sayin.' But of course, the movie would have been much shorter.
>
>
>

Thanks for the interesting post, Jeremiah. It's been years since I've seen Beneath, but wasn't there a mentioning of how the gorillas' skulls were simply too thick for lasting mental manipulation to be successfully imposed telepathically? Meanwhile, I'm not aware that the mutants possessed the ability to erase others' memories, did they? I don't see how evolutionary pressures, or eugenics-related ones, would have yielded such abilities' emergence.

Meanwhile, perhaps the mutants suffered from a psychological phenomenon known as "learned helplessness" once their desert illusions failed against the Apes. It probably didn't help that the Mutants' previous leader had died while predicting the arrival of their doom, as reported in the Mendez Dynasty's penultimate edition. They may have been too busy feeling sorry for themselves, once the ape army had found their tunnels, to have been able to resort to back-up plans other than some futile bomb-brandishing.

Confident football teams confront the challenge head-on when their opponents have "first & goal" against them, while "also ran" teams begin merely "playing not to lose" even as their coaches throw down their clipboards in frustration (and defeat). The Mutants in Beneath sure seemed to have withdrawn in various ways, as is evidenced by how they apparently lost their ability to return to surface living. It's reminiscent of the Morlocks in H.G.Wells's The Time Machine, only even the Morlocks occasionally returned to the surface for hunting. The Mutants, on the other hand, could not survive on the surface, right? Perhaps the microbes and the sun's radiant energy were too strong (even in the dark?) for the "evolved" Mutants.

As for Dr. Zaius's allowing Taylor to go free at the end of POTA1968, I haven't yet figured out what his strongest motives were. Was it mainly an act of one truth-seeker's desire to see another discover the truth? Or was it part of a scheme to help incite sufficient passion back at Ape City (despite the peaceniks) so that an invasion of the Forbidden Zone could finally be authorized? Both goals likely existed, to varying degrees, even if Zaius merely wanted to show Taylor:

"See?! Man is EVIL. Capable of NOTHING but destruction."

Didn't Zaius in the television series (which I own but haven't watched in approximately 8 years) seem to believe the astronauts' story of space travel? He referred to prior astronauts' arrivals (which had fatal endings, if I remember correctly). Perhaps Zaius in POTA 1968 believed in the possibility of human space travel, too. He may have already seen some technical publications from thousands of years ago, while his eventual interrogations of a pre-lobotomized Landon yielded disturbingly credible feedback. So maybe Dr. Zaius really did want Taylor to see for himself that what the Lawgiver had written about man's "destiny" was actually worth considering. Maybe Zaius figured Taylor would then become less feisty, like the Mutants apparently already had?

Happy Thanksgiving Weekend (what's left of it, anyway) from Houston

:-)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "JEREMIAH APE" <rv.cupp01@...> wrote:
>
> You have some interesting points here and I was wondering some of the same things you address here. I recently re-watched all the Apes films on my new Blu-Rays which I'm really stoked about by the way.
>
> What really could have been explained a little better in Beneath was it had been said that someone was raiding the Apes food supply. How did they come to the conclusion that it was someone other than the "dumb" humans. Was it because of the discovery of astronauts Taylor and Landon who were believed to have sprung up from the Forbidden Zone?
>
> Were the mutants coming out from their underground dwellings and raiding the apes food supply? I know that the mutants had captured some Ape scouts and understand that the scouts' disappearance raised some suspicions. Anyways, although not implicitly stated in Beneath, I tend to think that it was suspicions about astronauts Taylor and Landon that may have been one of the motivating factors for the Ape Soldiers going into the Forbidden Zone.
>
> I think the mutants could have remained undiscovered had they just confused the ape scouts by implanting false memories in the gorillas' heads and then sending them back to Ape City--instead of just frying/messing up their minds. Maybe they could have done a jedi mind trick--"you didn't see the mutants behind the curtain." So it may have been possible for the mutants to remain inconspicuous had the gorilla scouts not gone missing. Could the mutants have remained undiscovered? It's possible. However, the Ape's questions about Taylor and Landon's origins may have still been the catalyst to lead to the mutants' discovery--even if the scouts had not disappeared.
>
> But also, I tend to think that the Apes would not have allowed an armed human, in this case astronaut Taylor, to remain on the loose in the Forbidden Zone. I believe the Apes would have still pursued Taylor into the Forbidden Zone--which could have still possibly and unintentionally led to the discovery of the mutant city.
>
> As an ape, I would not have believed Taylor's story about arriving via a spaceship. I would have been concerned that Taylor had sprung from the Forbidden Zone and if he had more people like him out there, then he might be going to get help or to raise an army against the apes. I mean, I doubt that many of the orangutans/apes really believed Taylor's story about coming to their planet from a spaceship.
>
> Another thing too, why didn't the apes punish Zaius for not pursuing Taylor. After destroying the cave, Zaius could have simply waited for Taylor to get up the beach a little ways and then sent the gorillas to ambush him. I mean Taylor was a pretty serious threat--an intelligent human who had a mate--someone to help him keep the line going and create a whole race of intelligent humans. How could Zaius not pursue him and then just go back to Ape City?
>
> On another note, one thing that always bugged me about the mutants was how easy it was for the Apes to invade the city. I mean yes, their illusions of the hanging apes and the Law Giver failed, but couldn't the mutants use their collective mental powers and do that whole sonic deterent thing on them. Although Zaius could see through the illusions, could he really defeat the whole sonic deterrent thing and the pain it could cause, etc.? The mutants didn't need to be physically present to see the Apes marching on their city or to use their mental powers. The mutants could have caused just two of the weaker-minded marching gorillas to use their machine guns to mow down huge numbers of apes before being gunned down themselves. Once those two gorillas were gunned down, the mutants could then take over the minds of two more gorillas to take their place, and so on and so on, etc. Then all the marching apes would have killed themselves/each other in a barrage of gunfire before reaching the mutant city. Just sayin.' But of course, the movie would have been much shorter.
>
>
>

Interesting mutant/Taylor talk. I usualy dont engage in these talks even though they are fun unless their is some proof or talk by the primary players all those years ago.
Zaius let Taylor go because first of all he knew EVERYTHING about the past and how it all started, Apes past and Mans demise. I think he felt that he would be the more civilized being by letting him live. The forbidden zone was once a paradise-uhh NEW YORK- and that combined with the line "Dont look for it Taylor, you may not like what you find" and "I do know who you are Taylor" from earlier on after a protracted argument to have Taylor basically sign a false admission (Are you or have you ever been a communist-Michael Wilson influenced)of who and where he and Landon came from. In other words Zaius knew it all and Taylor knew he knew it all. Great writing.
The mutants I always liked because it throws the BS of religion right at the sudiences face. The bomb logo or upside down cross or both and the hypocricy of it all with "We dont kill our enemies, we get our enemies to kill each other". A great clapping/Laughing line from the audiences back in 1970. Also the siging from the Protestant(I think) song "All things bright and beutifull" substituting Bomb for God and how I remember some friends parents getting offended by it--Job Done-. The fungus angle is interesting to explain their powers without using only radiation as an excuse. These are all good debates and when I get happier ill be sure to join in more and piss off somebody. Take Care, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "georgetaylor68" <georgetaylor68@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the interesting post, Jeremiah. It's been years since I've seen Beneath, but wasn't there a mentioning of how the gorillas' skulls were simply too thick for lasting mental manipulation to be successfully imposed telepathically? Meanwhile, I'm not aware that the mutants possessed the ability to erase others' memories, did they? I don't see how evolutionary pressures, or eugenics-related ones, would have yielded such abilities' emergence.
>
> Meanwhile, perhaps the mutants suffered from a psychological phenomenon known as "learned helplessness" once their desert illusions failed against the Apes. It probably didn't help that the Mutants' previous leader had died while predicting the arrival of their doom, as reported in the Mendez Dynasty's penultimate edition. They may have been too busy feeling sorry for themselves, once the ape army had found their tunnels, to have been able to resort to back-up plans other than some futile bomb-brandishing.
>
> Confident football teams confront the challenge head-on when their opponents have "first & goal" against them, while "also ran" teams begin merely "playing not to lose" even as their coaches throw down their clipboards in frustration (and defeat). The Mutants in Beneath sure seemed to have withdrawn in various ways, as is evidenced by how they apparently lost their ability to return to surface living. It's reminiscent of the Morlocks in H.G.Wells's The Time Machine, only even the Morlocks occasionally returned to the surface for hunting. The Mutants, on the other hand, could not survive on the surface, right? Perhaps the microbes and the sun's radiant energy were too strong (even in the dark?) for the "evolved" Mutants.
>
> As for Dr. Zaius's allowing Taylor to go free at the end of POTA1968, I haven't yet figured out what his strongest motives were. Was it mainly an act of one truth-seeker's desire to see another discover the truth? Or was it part of a scheme to help incite sufficient passion back at Ape City (despite the peaceniks) so that an invasion of the Forbidden Zone could finally be authorized? Both goals likely existed, to varying degrees, even if Zaius merely wanted to show Taylor:
>
> "See?! Man is EVIL. Capable of NOTHING but destruction."
>
> Didn't Zaius in the television series (which I own but haven't watched in approximately 8 years) seem to believe the astronauts' story of space travel? He referred to prior astronauts' arrivals (which had fatal endings, if I remember correctly). Perhaps Zaius in POTA 1968 believed in the possibility of human space travel, too. He may have already seen some technical publications from thousands of years ago, while his eventual interrogations of a pre-lobotomized Landon yielded disturbingly credible feedback. So maybe Dr. Zaius really did want Taylor to see for himself that what the Lawgiver had written about man's "destiny" was actually worth considering. Maybe Zaius figured Taylor would then become less feisty, like the Mutants apparently already had?
>
> Happy Thanksgiving Weekend (what's left of it, anyway) from Houston
>
> :-)
>
>

We were in touch originally back in 2001 but the address I have for you
doesn't work anymore. If you're on this list (or if anyone here knows
him), please contact me privately.


Thanks,

Chris Lawless

Thanks JohnM and georgetaylor68(cool handle by the way) for the engaging talk. I was actually being a little facetious about the whole jedi-mindtrick thing. I do remember the part about the gorilla's brains not being able to withstand the mutant inquisition.

Good point about Zaius making himself appear to be the better "ape," the more civilized being so to speak, by letting Taylor go. Of course, I guess the reason Zaius faced no repercussions from Ape City for letting Taylor go had to do with the fact that Zaius was, of course, one of the most powerful members of the ape society. So he could get away with quite a bit. He could simply say "he escaped."

I guess looking back on it all--the defeat of the mutants boiled down to the whole "lets let God take care of it" philosophy. Maybe they really did feel if the apes beheld the Alpha Omega bomb with their own eyes, the apes would "see the light" and cease all hostilities, etc. instead of the mutants having to put up a big fight. I still think they could have saved themselves but instead they chose to drink the Kool Aid. I like to think about the "what could've been" had Charlton Heston been a little more open to the whole idea of a sequel. I love Beneath but still can't help but wonder...

Now another burning question is why in the first film Zira and Cornelius were so amazed to find out that there was a civilized society pre-dating ape history, but all of the sudden in Escape From the Planet of the Apes, they suddenly know all about intelligent humans from past ape history and the first ape who could speak (Aldo). Maybe Milo told them--again just being a little facetious. I know, Paul Dehn told them when he fished their ship out of the water.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "JohnM conquest-idor" <johnmermigas@...> wrote:
>
> Interesting mutant/Taylor talk. I usualy dont engage in these talks even though they are fun unless their is some proof or talk by the primary players all those years ago.
> Zaius let Taylor go because first of all he knew EVERYTHING about the past and how it all started, Apes past and Mans demise. I think he felt that he would be the more civilized being by letting him live. The forbidden zone was once a paradise-uhh NEW YORK- and that combined with the line "Dont look for it Taylor, you may not like what you find" and "I do know who you are Taylor" from earlier on after a protracted argument to have Taylor basically sign a false admission (Are you or have you ever been a communist-Michael Wilson influenced)of who and where he and Landon came from. In other words Zaius knew it all and Taylor knew he knew it all. Great writing.
> The mutants I always liked because it throws the BS of religion right at the sudiences face. The bomb logo or upside down cross or both and the hypocricy of it all with "We dont kill our enemies, we get our enemies to kill each other". A great clapping/Laughing line from the audiences back in 1970. Also the siging from the Protestant(I think) song "All things bright and beutifull" substituting Bomb for God and how I remember some friends parents getting offended by it--Job Done-. The fungus angle is interesting to explain their powers without using only radiation as an excuse. These are all good debates and when I get happier ill be sure to join in more and piss off somebody. Take Care, John M.
>
> --- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "georgetaylor68" <georgetaylor68@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the interesting post, Jeremiah. It's been years since I've seen Beneath, but wasn't there a mentioning of how the gorillas' skulls were simply too thick for lasting mental manipulation to be successfully imposed telepathically? Meanwhile, I'm not aware that the mutants possessed the ability to erase others' memories, did they? I don't see how evolutionary pressures, or eugenics-related ones, would have yielded such abilities' emergence.
> >
> > Meanwhile, perhaps the mutants suffered from a psychological phenomenon known as "learned helplessness" once their desert illusions failed against the Apes. It probably didn't help that the Mutants' previous leader had died while predicting the arrival of their doom, as reported in the Mendez Dynasty's penultimate edition. They may have been too busy feeling sorry for themselves, once the ape army had found their tunnels, to have been able to resort to back-up plans other than some futile bomb-brandishing.
> >
> > Confident football teams confront the challenge head-on when their opponents have "first & goal" against them, while "also ran" teams begin merely "playing not to lose" even as their coaches throw down their clipboards in frustration (and defeat). The Mutants in Beneath sure seemed to have withdrawn in various ways, as is evidenced by how they apparently lost their ability to return to surface living. It's reminiscent of the Morlocks in H.G.Wells's The Time Machine, only even the Morlocks occasionally returned to the surface for hunting. The Mutants, on the other hand, could not survive on the surface, right? Perhaps the microbes and the sun's radiant energy were too strong (even in the dark?) for the "evolved" Mutants.
> >
> > As for Dr. Zaius's allowing Taylor to go free at the end of POTA1968, I haven't yet figured out what his strongest motives were. Was it mainly an act of one truth-seeker's desire to see another discover the truth? Or was it part of a scheme to help incite sufficient passion back at Ape City (despite the peaceniks) so that an invasion of the Forbidden Zone could finally be authorized? Both goals likely existed, to varying degrees, even if Zaius merely wanted to show Taylor:
> >
> > "See?! Man is EVIL. Capable of NOTHING but destruction."
> >
> > Didn't Zaius in the television series (which I own but haven't watched in approximately 8 years) seem to believe the astronauts' story of space travel? He referred to prior astronauts' arrivals (which had fatal endings, if I remember correctly). Perhaps Zaius in POTA 1968 believed in the possibility of human space travel, too. He may have already seen some technical publications from thousands of years ago, while his eventual interrogations of a pre-lobotomized Landon yielded disturbingly credible feedback. So maybe Dr. Zaius really did want Taylor to see for himself that what the Lawgiver had written about man's "destiny" was actually worth considering. Maybe Zaius figured Taylor would then become less feisty, like the Mutants apparently already had?
> >
> > Happy Thanksgiving Weekend (what's left of it, anyway) from Houston
> >
> > :-)
> >
> >
>

Going to www.empireonline,com/awards2012 should get you to the Jameson awards--not sure if you have to sign up to nominate, but it's worth it to give RISE a push! John,Scrolls.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Empire Magazine is accepting nominations for next year's Jameson's Whiskey film awards---I've done my RISE duty for the film,Rupert and Andy and maybe ,if enough of us chip in, we could get them on the ballot.That would keep Apes in the public eye.John, Scrolls.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Provide the link and I will click on it and do as you request.
>

That Starlog Photo Guidebook takes me back.I can remember seeing an ad for that on the back of a magazine and my heart leapt at the small colour Apes pic in the corner.I bought my postal order and cherished the book that arrived like a holy tome---up to that point, apart from the novels, I had no script summaries for the series.Even though the Starlog summaries were brief (and innaccurate in places!)I still love that book over three decades lter.I kind of miss the joy of the surprise random Apes pic and article that kept us sustained in the 80s! John, Scrolls.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "James" <JamesA1102@...> wrote:
>
> From: RedSpy13@...
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:53 PM
> Subject: Emailing: Starlog Photo Guidebook - TV Episode Guides, Vol 02
>
>
>
> Greetings, my friend. Here is an article on the Apes TV series that I
> wanted to share with you. Please make it available to the group. As
> always, I'll send more when I come across them. Enjoy!
>
>
>
> Jeff (RedSpy)
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the pota
group.

File : /Starlog Photo Guidebook - TV Episode Guides Vol 02.pdf
Uploaded by : jamesa1102 <JamesA1102@...>
Description : Thanks Jeff (Red Spy)!

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/Starlog%20Photo%20Guidebook%20-%20TV%20Episode%20Guides%20Vol%2002.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.html"
Regards,

jamesa1102 <JamesA1102@...>

Some here will ignore or chastise the sequel writing and the detail mistakes that do happen so the answer could be what you said, or Cornelius learned more, or got chummier with Zaius "Im relieing on you both, the whole future of Ape civilization will be yours......" or the whole time paradox thing that has Escapes' Cornelius and Zira as different apes than Planets..eehh, or just the way sequels were done in the old days to get new audiences up to speed about previous films in the series like Armando telling the whole story to Caesar on the rooftop and mall in Conquest. The Escape facts were cool and necesary to make an otherwise love story into a Sci-Fi fun fest. As a teenager I thought the Dog and cat scenerio was intriguing. Anyway, it makes for a better film even if mistakes were made. You couldnt get away with some of those mistakes or reasons nowadays thats for sure. Take care, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "JEREMIAH APE" <rv.cupp01@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks JohnM and georgetaylor68(cool handle by the way) for the engaging talk. I was actually being a little facetious about the whole jedi-mindtrick thing. I do remember the part about the gorilla's brains not being able to withstand the mutant inquisition.
>
> Good point about Zaius making himself appear to be the better "ape," the more civilized being so to speak, by letting Taylor go. Of course, I guess the reason Zaius faced no repercussions from Ape City for letting Taylor go had to do with the fact that Zaius was, of course, one of the most powerful members of the ape society. So he could get away with quite a bit. He could simply say "he escaped."
>
> I guess looking back on it all--the defeat of the mutants boiled down to the whole "lets let God take care of it" philosophy. Maybe they really did feel if the apes beheld the Alpha Omega bomb with their own eyes, the apes would "see the light" and cease all hostilities, etc. instead of the mutants having to put up a big fight. I still think they could have saved themselves but instead they chose to drink the Kool Aid. I like to think about the "what could've been" had Charlton Heston been a little more open to the whole idea of a sequel. I love Beneath but still can't help but wonder...
>
> Now another burning question is why in the first film Zira and Cornelius were so amazed to find out that there was a civilized society pre-dating ape history, but all of the sudden in Escape From the Planet of the Apes, they suddenly know all about intelligent humans from past ape history and the first ape who could speak (Aldo). Maybe Milo told them--again just being a little facetious. I know, Paul Dehn told them when he fished their ship out of the water.
>
>
>

Attachments :

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Roddy_McDowall3.jpg
Roddy_McDowall3-67157.jpg
nova-67157.jpg

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They had learned so much already that they had to

be let in on the "Terrible Secret". That's why Zaius

said when he left "It's yours to save or destroy, so

think well before you act." Maybe the only ones

besides Zaius who did know, since he was the

Minister of Science and Chief Defender of the

Faith, he was the guardian of the secret.

 

 

In a message dated 11/28/2011 4:26:59 A.M. Central Standard Time, rv.cupp01@... writes:

Now another burning question is why in the first film Zira and Cornelius were so amazed to find out that there was a civilized society pre-dating ape history, but all of the sudden in Escape From the Planet of the Apes, they suddenly know all about intelligent humans from past ape history and the first ape who could speak (Aldo).

<.html

Rory:
When we get back to Ape City, you will stand trial for heresy.

:-)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Some here will ignore or chastise the sequel writing and the detail mistakes that do happen so the answer could be what you said, or Cornelius learned more, or got chummier with Zaius "Im relieing on you both, the whole future of Ape civilization will be yours......" or the whole time paradox thing that has Escapes' Cornelius and Zira as different apes than Planets..eehh, or just the way sequels were done in the old days to get new audiences up to speed about previous films in the series like Armando telling the whole story to Caesar on the rooftop and mall in Conquest. The Escape facts were cool and necesary to make an otherwise love story into a Sci-Fi fun fest. As a teenager I thought the Dog and cat scenerio was intriguing. Anyway, it makes for a better film even if mistakes were made. You couldnt get away with some of those mistakes or reasons nowadays thats for sure. Take care, John M.
>
>
>
>
> Any and all discrepancies between what's in PLANET and what's in any of its sequels can easily be explained by the simple fact -- and it is a FACT that can't be disputed with -- that PLANET was an "A" picture and all it's sequels were sloppily, quickly produced "cheapies" that were made ONLY to cash-in on the box office success of the previous movie.
>
> I know this is not a pleasant reality to face, but it is the reality nonetheless, and I truly hope there's no one here that's now going to attack me for saying this TRUTH.
>
> -- Rory
>

Attachments :

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135373-67161.jpg

.html<.html

These lobby cards from Spain are awesome!!

:)

On Mon, Nov 28, 2011 at 5:45 PM, James <JamesA1102@...> wrote:

[Attachment(s) from James included below]

From: William Burge
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 3:13 PM
Subject: beneath spain lobby cards

dear group, I found two lobby cards from spain on beneath 1970. from william burge

.html <.html

.html <.html

Nobody is attacking nobody. The sequels were cheapies for the reason that you and I know that this was a new phenomenem. Sequels to a blockbuster and it being sci-fi and the money worries and legit problems (brought on by the studios themselves)that happened because they spent tons of money to make "A" pictures(the ones that you might say were not "B" pictures but surely performed like they were) in the late 50s and early 60s and that didnt work and they lost mucho money. The so called "cheapie" apes sequels made money and if it wasnt for these films(You know all this I know) and the sagacious thinking of Fox movie history(no Star Wars-so what-, and Alien and so much more into the eighties) would not of happened, but they would of rebounded eventually, they always do.
The sequels no matter how much you seperate Planet from the rest of the herd would not have created what we have today and the history oif ape-mania. Fantastic Voyage, 2001, and many others will never attain the iconic stature no matter how cheap and kitsch at times that the apes have. I know yeah you love 2001 and it has a large following but to me its a Kubrick following not just a 2001 phenomenom. Kubricks films are sort of regarded as a whole package like the 5 Ape films. Thats what gives his very plodding movies a pass because their are some real gems in his repretoire. Even though I love so much of Kubricks films, I feel they are so much like style over substance, like a Burton film in many cases.
I lived through those days like you and many high falutent critics liked or even almost loved some of the Apes sequels. I remember Pauline Kael and either Time or newsweek that lauded Conquest. Escape was a suprise and liked by most critics but ofcourse their are those that say its just done for the money, all films are done just for the money lets not forget, its a business and always was. If some good can come out of the sequel making then well the Apes did it in my view, mistakes and all and esp. Conquest and to a smaller extent Battle in their longer forms before being chopped up.
The power in the apes films is a great birth-Planet of the Apes 1968- and the continuation of the apes saga that created a new way, a sometimes bad way by many critics and audiences alike, of making movies. Sequels were always around but just like Heston felt in a rare moment of short sightedness the sequel was the apes power and was a new way to make money in a movie industry that was in a bad place in those days so to repeat myself they did the smart thing in sequel making and we all benifitted from this now infamous practice.
J.Lee Thompson, in a rare moment of sobriety, Paul Dehn, Roddy McDowall, Bruce Surtess, Tom Scott and all the rest were proof to me that with little money and a politically progressive mind a very good film can be made(original uncut film more than the compromised version). At that time these were not B or C actors or film techs at the time(sure no Steve Mcqueen or Lazlo Kovacs) they were what I call the no less talented 2nd string of hollywood filmakers and I feel they did a wonderfull job with Escape and Conquest, and Beneath almost could of made the arbritary grade if they were a little more carefull and didnt have to many chefs in the kitchen and didnt film so many poorly made masks in the ape scenes, but the mutants made up for any makeup flaws in the apes in my view in what I feel was a great scene and very well executed Bomb vigil scene.
As usual I went on too long and just wanted to get the average Ape fan point of view across, Take care, John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Some here will ignore or chastise the sequel writing and the detail mistakes that do happen so the answer could be what you said, or Cornelius learned more, or got chummier with Zaius "Im relieing on you both, the whole future of Ape civilization will be yours......" or the whole time paradox thing that has Escapes' Cornelius and Zira as different apes than Planets..eehh, or just the way sequels were done in the old days to get new audiences up to speed about previous films in the series like Armando telling the whole story to Caesar on the rooftop and mall in Conquest. The Escape facts were cool and necesary to make an otherwise love story into a Sci-Fi fun fest. As a teenager I thought the Dog and cat scenerio was intriguing. Anyway, it makes for a better film even if mistakes were made. You couldnt get away with some of those mistakes or reasons nowadays thats for sure. Take care, John M.
>
>
>
>
> Any and all discrepancies between what's in PLANET and what's in any of its sequels can easily be explained by the simple fact -- and it is a FACT that can't be disputed with -- that PLANET was an "A" picture and all it's sequels were sloppily, quickly produced "cheapies" that were made ONLY to cash-in on the box office success of the previous movie.
>
> I know this is not a pleasant reality to face, but it is the reality nonetheless, and I truly hope there's no one here that's now going to attack me for saying this TRUTH.
>
> -- Rory
>

.html

>>Thank you! That's one of the things that was annoying about the

Burton film. All those nods to the original are just distracting Are we apes that they think they need to throw Easter Eggs as treats? <<

>>The second one was the "clever" references which were just f'ing

annoying. Franklin, Jacobs, Buck, Cornelia, Alpha, Docket- I'm sure there were more (and yes, I'm ignoring the whole Icarus on Mars thing). It shows that the script was more gimmicks than actual story. <<<.html

____________________________________________________________
57 Year Old Mom Looks 27
Mom Reveals $3 Wrinkle Trick Angering Doctors...
iconsumerknowledge.com

.html

>>It's just funny how the general public enjoyed the movie more than

many Ape fans. <<

>>I think that's because many APES fans just want to see "The New

Adventures On The Old Planet Of The Apes << <.html

____________________________________________________________
57 Year Old Mom Looks 27
Mom Reveals $3 Wrinkle Trick Angering Doctors...
iconsumerknowledge.com

.html

>>The first one is that the story is crassly manipulative into making

you feel bad for Caesar. <.html

____________________________________________________________
57 Year Old Mom Looks 27
Mom Reveals $3 Wrinkle Trick Angering Doctors...
iconsumerknowledge.com

.html

>>It's just funny how the general public enjoyed the movie more than

many Ape fans. <<

>>And as far as "Rise" and the Oscars, I hear Spielberg's "War Horse"

is a "manipulative" animal movie and it's supposedly a front runner. Maybe the two movies will complement each other in the Oscar race. << <.html

____________________________________________________________
53 Year Old Mom Looks 33
The Stunning Results of Her Wrinkle Trick Has Botox Doctors Worried
consumerproducts.com

This Twilight phenomenom has killed vampires to me and this preoccupation with teenage sparkling cuties sucking your neck is so bad for vampires but good for the genre thats for sure. I must be old. John M.

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> The box office total for "Rise of the POTA" ended last week with nary a squeak, so I'm calling it. The film ended with a $ 480 million worldwide total. It didn't pass "Rio" ($ 484 million) and become Fox's top movie so it will have to settle for # 2. Thanks to the performance of the new "Twilight" movie ($488 million so far after a little over a week) "Rise" is pushed out of the Top 10 for the year as well. For the "Rise" sequel the apes are going to need better abs. But it is the top non-sequel, non- kid flick of the year and beat all the comic book movies. Also to be considered is that "Rise" didn't benefit from 3D prices or aggressive promotion like the big boys. So it's time to celebrate a box office performance well done. But we're going to celebrate the Heston way, with a Bud Light.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdQbHTL-5gs
>
>
> "Rise" is # 11 for the year, with a few more biggies to go. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/
>
> 1. Harry Potter 8 - $ 1,328 billion
> 2. Transformers 3 - $1,123 billion
> 3. Pirates 4 - $1,043 billion
> 4. Kung Fu Panda 2 - $663 million
> 5. Fast 5 - $626 million
> 6. Hangover 2 - $581 million
> 7. Smurfs - $561 million
> 8. Cars 2 - $551 million
> 9. Twilight 4 - $488 million
> 10. Rio - $484 million
> 11. Rise - $480 million
>
> "Rise" has travelled the world and now it's ready to come home - - to YOUR house!
>

.html

 

Well there was certainly something being thrown that apes are generally known for doing...

 

BTW, I had forgotten to mention (in the original post below) Malfoy quoting Taylor's line from PLANET. Painful. Utterly painful to listen to.

 

 

Chris L.

<.html

POTA2001 sold quite well on DVD and was often featured as a highlight on Fox's quarterly reports. It also did well at the box office. But the merchandise sank.


From: lawford42@...
Sent: Monday, November 28, 2011 11:37 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Re: Who's seeing "Rise of the Apes" today?




"Haristas@..." Haristas@...> wrote: (in response to >> me)

>>The first one is that the story is crassly manipulative into making you feel bad for Caesar.

Crassly? I don't know. Making you feel bad for Caesar is kind of the entire point of the excercise, and if that's crass, then I don't know what. Is BLACK BEAUTY or LASSIE or MY DOG SPOT crass?

Never say any of them, but from what I know about the stories I'd say no. Different approach to the subject matter.

>>I've said it before and can only repeat- it had NOTHING to do with Planet of the Apes in any way, shape, or form.

Others here agree with this, Hunter being one, I think -- but I disagree. It's POTA, and the one authority in this matter is -- and you have to respect it -- is FOX. If Twentieth Century Fox says it's POTA, then it's POTA.

I completely agree with him. This is the same Fox that in 1998 released PLANET on VHS (and later DVD) with a cover giving away the ending. Which was once a heated topic of conversation here- prompting some to created their own DVD covers that were (and still are?) available in the Group's File Section. Come to think of it, aren't some of those designs yours?

My point is, Fox has mishandled this property for far longer a period of time then they ever handled it properly. So although they have the rights to it, that doesn't mean they're an authority on it. Far too often they've proven quite the opposite.


The POTA2001 debacle is something I'd like to say isn't POTA, but I know I don't get to decide that.

You- and fans in general- do get a voice though. For example, the DVD version of POTA2001 is kind of notorious for selling so poorly despite being one of the most feature packed DVD releases of it's time. So all that anticipated back end money never happened for them.


Anyway.... glad you FINALLY saw RISE (Disagree with this was literally style without substance. There was substance). I guess you just don't like going to the movies or paying more that $3 to get in.

I actually go to the movies all the time and the admission price is usually far more than $3. It's just that in this particular case I wasn't going to pay full price to see something I knew I wasn't going to like, and $3 happened to be the admission price.


Chris L.

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I thought the references were well done. There's only two that stood out, I don't know why people are saying it's wall to wall references. I thought the "madhouse" line was worked in the context, and it was in the background. The "damn dirty ape" is the most in your face but it works for me because it leads directly to the payoff (another reference, but one I think fans would've missed if it wasn't there, the first word spoke by an ape). People complain about Malfoy but his character served it's purpose and I thought it was fun to have the A hole (the character, not Felton, who was fine in the role) say those lines.
What else was there? Caesar building the Statue of Liberty? Why not? For a movie that some fans feel went too far astray from classic POTA it's a nice little reminder. I could've done without some of the names but I think "Dodge" is the only one that's spoken. "Cornelia" is fine, so what? The names that are nods to people who worked on classic Apes, those are good tributes. Probably Buck Kartalian got a kick out of it. I loved the Jacobs reference.
So I didn't have a problem with the references outside the "Dodge" and "Landon" stuff, and probably the Icarus (the reference people seemed to like, even though it's not really a reference). I thought the references added to the fun.


From: Hunter Goatley
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 4:21 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [pota] Re: Who's seeing "Rise of the Apes" today?




As much as I liked RISE---and I did, a lot---I do think many of the references were very clumsily handled, like that line. I didn't mind them all, just the clumsy, obvious ones.....

Hunter

On Nov 29, 2011, at 1:35 AM, lawford42@... wrote:




Well there was certainly something being thrown that apes are generally known for doing...

BTW, I had forgotten to mention (in the original post below) Malfoy quoting Taylor's line from PLANET. Painful. Utterly painful to listen to.


Chris L.

Once again there is a need to remind everyone that the group guidelines state:

Please be courteous and respectful of other members. While discussion and differences of opinion are natural, please keep all such discussions friendly without name-calling or attacking someone for holding a different opinion.

They also state:

Please remember the purpose of the group is to discuss Planet of the Apes. If you wish to discuss politics or Star Trek or something else, there are sites designed for those topics. All topics should be relatable back to Planet of the Apes. News of POTA alumni is always welcome but long reviews & discussions of Patton or Marky Mark's latest film may be over the line. Please keep Off Topic posts brief and remember to put (OT) in the subject line.

All members should read the group guidelines before posting: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/PostingGuidelines.htm

Thank you.

Occupy POTA Group!


From: pota-owner@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2011 8:45 AM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pota] Group Guidelines



Once again there is a need to remind everyone that the group guidelines state:

Please be courteous and respectful of other members. While discussion and differences of opinion are natural, please keep all such discussions friendly without name-calling or attacking someone for holding a different opinion.

They also state:

Please remember the purpose of the group is to discuss Planet of the Apes. If you wish to discuss politics or Star Trek or something else, there are sites designed for those topics. All topics should be relatable back to Planet of the Apes. News of POTA alumni is always welcome but long reviews & discussions of Patton or Marky Mark's latest film may be over the line. Please keep Off Topic posts brief and remember to put (OT) in the subject line.

All members should read the group guidelines before posting: http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/pota/files/PostingGuidelines.htm

Thank you.

Last night at the Gotham Awards, Fox head Tom Rothman confirmed development of sequels for both "Rise of the POTA" and "X-Men: First Class". Of course that's not earth shattering news but he did put the emphasis on the scripts: "Both of them were really great scripts and so we have to be sure to get great scripts again. We're working hard on the scripts". Take that as you will.

http://filmonic.com/fox-want-rupert-wyatt-and-matthew-vaughn-back-for-future-apes-and-x-men-films

Here's a memory of growing up with KING KONG, in New York (and WOR-TV's
odd--and ultimately national--tradition of showing KONG on
Thanksgiving!):


King Kong, and the City

http://thethunderchild.com/BurnsintheCity/KingKongintheCity.html"


I've also included a tribute to Chris Steinbrunner, who programmed so
many of those film shows at Channel 9 (and whom I'm pretty sure was
responsible for showing those odd European horror films late at night in
the late '70s, and early '80s), wrote one of the very first histories of
fantasy and science fiction movies, won an Edgar award, was a member of
early comics fandom,,, I was shocked, recently, that save for a short
Wikipedia entry, my old friend's history was essentially missing from
the web, and hope that this might be a start to rectifying that.


Chris Steinbrunner, and a Renaissance of Fantasy

http://thethunderchild.com/BurnsintheCity/ChrisSteinbrunner.html"



Best, Jim

Brent escaped, too. Then the fireworks began :-)

--- In pota@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
>
>
> Rory:
> When we get back to Ape City, you will stand trial for heresy.
>
> :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I stood trial for that years ago....
>
> but I escaped.
>

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beneath-67188.jpg

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