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----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 4:32 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Cast & Crew

After at least a 10 year wait wasn’t it (or more?).

 

I think Batman has LOTS more fans too.....

 

But yes, they are making sequels to worse movies than POTA (so did THOSE movies sell more toys?).

 

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of veetus@...
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2006 2:48 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Cast & Crew

 

They came out for "Batman Begins" after "Batman and Robin".

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----- Original Message -----

From: Haristas@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 4:59 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Re: EW names best of nearly unwatchable sequels

In a message dated 6/3/06 7:49:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

Do you think (based on her other movies then!) she'd be a good Nova?

No!  She'd be a better Zira.

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----- Original Message -----

From: Neil T Foster

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 2:19 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Cast & Crew

-- Well where is this audience then? Surely if there is a large audience waiting around for a new movie they would also be buying things like the new comic but even that isn't guaranteed to go to a second series as it seems it hasn't sold in huge numbers as Ty has repeatedly said any 2nd series will be based on the graphic novel having large enough sales to justify that happening.

 

Apes is dead and Fox knows it, the world has moved on to embrace other things since those good old days when anything 'Ape' was guaranteed to sell.

 

For the last 20 odd years or so anything to do with X - men has been guaranteed to sell comics in massive numbers so it is little surprise that Fox will be milking that franchise to death and I suspect all those X - fans will turn up at any movie that has any link to that franchise, no matter how bad the movie is or which X character it is about.

 

Neil

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of veetus@...
Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2006 2:48 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Cast & Crew

  I disagree. I think there is a large audience for new POTA movies (shown by POTA2001's opening weekend; even Ben Affleck left rehab to see it). The problem, I think, is the quality of the movie and now Fox isn't sure if people would turn out for a sequel, even if it was good. I think they would, audiences are very forgiving.

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----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2006 3:02 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

I guess we are assuming a hungry shark beat them to it Neil because yes, they would recover that body with a very high priority (if they COULD...)!

 

I’ll never forget that feeling of horror when Zira pushed the baby over the side.  Thankfully my dad was nearby to explain!

Michael

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Neil T Foster
Sent: Monday, 5 June 2006 7:05 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

 

-- One thing that has always bugged me is wouldn't the body of (fake) baby Milo have been recovered from the water? Surely the authorities would want to confirm it's death and more importantly it's identity?

 

Neil

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of majorhendricks
Sent: Monday, 5 June 2006 12:48 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

 

 I would conjecture that after the apeonaut's deaths, there bodies
were put into storage and used -- from time to time -- by scientists
for study.

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It's possible Armando made the switch, not Zira. Doesn't she continue to
talk to it when they are on the run? - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dario Sciola" <darios@...>
To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: RE: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?


Setting aside the very probable fact that was pointed out that it may
have been impossible to get to the chimp in time (sharks, etc), even
if the body was recovered, so what?

Remember that DNA technology just wasn't available (neither in '74 the
year of the movie, and just barely in the supposed 1980 that the film
was set in). Even if the technology was available, there really was no
reason to suspect that a switch had been made. The fact that Zira
through the baby in the water supported the notion that she herself
believed it to be her own, an act that would have erased any doubts to
those who may have questioned the matter further.

We (the audience) only know she did the switch, because her
circumstances allowed it(being in Armondo's Circus at a time a baby
chimp was there as well).

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: Neil T Foster <ntfoster@...>
Date: Sunday, June 4, 2006 5:05 pm
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

> -- One thing that has always bugged me is wouldn't the body of (fake)
> baby Milo have been recovered from the water? Surely the authorities
> would want to confirm it's death and more importantly it's identity?
>
> Neil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf
> Of majorhendricks
> Sent: Monday, 5 June 2006 12:48 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?
>
>
> I would conjecture that after the apeonaut's deaths, there bodies
> were put into storage and used -- from time to time -- by
> scientists
> for study.
>
>




Yahoo! Groups Links

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----- Original Message -----

From: TZer0@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 7:02 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

In a message dated 6/4/2006 5:03:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

I'll never forget that feeling of horror when Zira pushed the baby over the side.  Thankfully my dad was nearby to explain!

 

Maybe you can explain it to me then.

I wasn't entirely sure about that scene.

I thought it was a combination of . . .

"You want the baby so much? then

here!" and just getting rid of any

evidence of the switch of the chimps.

 

<.html

Something that has always intrigued me but to which I have no clear
answer is how the POTA rights are distributed.

The APJAC story is well documented (how Jacobs was smart enough to
retain all the merchandising right while Fox kept the movie rights,
until of course he reverted them back to Fox). But how does Boulle
(and now his estate) fit into all this. Based on Fox'es actions, I
have always assumed that somehow they've either acquired Boulle's
rights OR that his rights somehow only extend to his original novel.
How then, can Fox keep up pumping out stuff that was based on his
creation? Murky territory. Does anyone have the full story about what
rights, if any, are still held by Boulle's estate?

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: veetus@...
Date: Monday, June 5, 2006 10:36 am
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Cast & Crew

> Message
> Contractually, I've heard Fox has to keep pumping out movies
> based on the Marvel comics. Otherwise they lose those properties
> like "X-Men" and "Fantastic 4". Marvel has already taken most of
> it's toys and gone home. They are going to be producing their own
> movies based on the characters they have left and Paramount will
> release them (including a "Hulk 2"). I guess the studios that did
> the other movies (Sony with "Spiderman", Fox's movies) will
> continue until their rights expire. Meanwhile, Fox owns POTA and
> can go back to that whenever they want; ten, twenty years later if
> it strikes them. Until then it's a Marvel world and we're just
> buying popcorn in it. - - - Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Michael Whitty
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2006 4:32 PM
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Cast & Crew
>
>
> After at least a 10 year wait wasn't it (or more?).
>
>
>
> I think Batman has LOTS more fans too.....
>
>
>
> But yes, they are making sequels to worse movies than POTA (so
> did THOSE movies sell more toys?).
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of veetus@...
> Sent: Sunday, 4 June 2006 2:48 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Cast & Crew
>
>
>
> They came out for "Batman Begins" after "Batman and Robin".
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS Planet of the apes
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> a.. Visit your group "PotaDG" on the web.
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> PotaDG-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
>
>
> --

On the face of it, I always took it to mean that Zira was trying one
lat desperate act to save the baby (regardless if it was really Milo
or not). After all, she knew that if it was still alive, it would be
destroyed now that she and Cornelius were goners. So even if the odds
of surviving being dumped into the bay like that were not good, It was
still better than doing nothing as shocking as the act may be.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: TZer0@...
Date: Monday, June 5, 2006 10:02 am
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

>
> In a message dated 6/4/2006 5:03:35 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> whitty@... writes:
>
> I'll never forget that feeling of horror when Zira pushed the
> baby over the
> side. Thankfully my dad was nearby to explain!
>
>
>
>
> Maybe you can explain it to me then.
> I wasn't entirely sure about that scene.
> I thought it was a combination of . . .
> "You want the baby so much? then
> here!" and just getting rid of any
> evidence of the switch of the chimps.
>
>

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In a message dated 6/5/2006 9:17:11 A.M. Central Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

instead they made POTA "uncool"

 

Exactly!  And the only way to make it

cool again, is to not make a kids movie.

The original wasn't one, it shouldn't be.

The issues it deals with are too adult.

 

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/3/2006 10:39:49 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Bill auditioned to do Cornelius in the POTA cartoon but was turned down because he sounded "too much" like Roddy and they were afraid Roddy would sue.

Well, if that's the case, then why didn't he simply create another voice for his audition(s)? Or, just audition using his regular voice? There certainly are ways he could have gotten around "sounding like Roddy"... I'm afraid I just don't buy it...

Then they traced over Bill's picture for the "Mission of Mercy" episode without credit or compensation.

I'm pretty sure that they would have been using the stills that FOX gave them to work with... As such, they were probably owned by the studio and any residuals would have been paid out before hand... Unless he owned the pictures himself, it's very unlikely he'd get paid for them using anything the studio owned...

Bill did his part for POTA but POTA has not been kind to him.

I'd disagree with that... His going around as Cornelius was a big part in the launching of his career... Plus, I seen where he sells face castings of the APES makeups mounted on wood... He owes the start of his career to the APES "roadshow", and he still profits from APES today with the items he sells... APES owes him nothing...
<.html<.html

Yes but wouldn't she as a mother still try to get the other baby to
talk evenshe knew it was not the real Milo? Call it a mother's
instinct. She probably believe that all apes could talk if trained to.

I just can't see Armando switching the babies without telling her. Why
would he do something like that to someone he cared for? There was no
assurance that they (C&Z) would be caught, although they knew they
were in for a chase.

Dario

----- Original Message -----
From: veetus@...
Date: Monday, June 5, 2006 11:01 am
Subject: Re: RE: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

> It's possible Armando made the switch, not Zira. Doesn't she
> continue to
> talk to it when they are on the run? - - - Jeff
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dario Sciola" <darios@...>
> To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 6:16 AM
> Subject: Re: RE: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after
> CONQUEST?
>
> Setting aside the very probable fact that was pointed out that it may
> have been impossible to get to the chimp in time (sharks, etc), even
> if the body was recovered, so what?
>
> Remember that DNA technology just wasn't available (neither in '74
the
> year of the movie, and just barely in the supposed 1980 that the film
> was set in). Even if the technology was available, there really
> was no
> reason to suspect that a switch had been made. The fact that Zira
> through the baby in the water supported the notion that she herself
> believed it to be her own, an act that would have erased any
> doubts to
> those who may have questioned the matter further.
>
> We (the audience) only know she did the switch, because her
> circumstances allowed it(being in Armondo's Circus at a time a baby
> chimp was there as well).
>
> Dario
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Neil T Foster <ntfoster@...>
> Date: Sunday, June 4, 2006 5:05 pm
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?
>
> > -- One thing that has always bugged me is wouldn't the body of
> (fake)> baby Milo have been recovered from the water? Surely the
> authorities> would want to confirm it's death and more importantly
> it's identity?
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
> Behalf
> > Of majorhendricks
> > Sent: Monday, 5 June 2006 12:48 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?
> >
> >
> > I would conjecture that after the apeonaut's deaths, there bodies
> > were put into storage and used -- from time to time -- by
> > scientists
> > for study.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ --------------------
> ~-->
> You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's free.
> See how.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/9_IolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html

In a message dated 6/5/2006 10:00:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  It's possible Armando made the switch, not Zira. Doesn't she continue to
talk to it when they are on the run? - - - Jeff

 

I don't buy that. That scene in the cage would have no purpose.

 

 

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In a message dated 6/5/2006 10:15:19 A.M. Central Daylight Time, darios@... writes:

So even if the odds of surviving being dumped into the bay like that were not good, It was still better than doing nothing as shocking as the act may be.

 

That doesn't make any sense.

After Hasslein pumped all those

slugs into it, how does chucking

it in the water save it.  Babies

can't swim.  Baby apes doubly

so.  That goes triple for swaddled

baby apes.  Even without being

shot, that alone would have killed

it.  It didn't need all that lead to

drown.  The only way that death

could have been more final is if

a tug boat had com along and

chopped it up with it's propeller.

Have I gone too far with it yet?   

 

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In a message dated 6/5/2006 11:23:36 A.M. Central Daylight Time, darios@... writes:

Yes but wouldn't she as a mother still try to get the other baby to
talk evenshe knew it was not the real Milo? Call it a mother's
instinct.

 

Yeah, I don't think she even told Cornelius about the switch.

The plan was to hook up with Armando later and go to the

Everglades.  This was her insurance in case they didn't make it.

 

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Thanks Greg.

What scripts are now missing?

Michael

--------- Original Message --------
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
To: "friends & fugitives" <friends_and_fugitives@yahoogroups.com>, "potadg@yahoogroups.com" <potadg@yahoogroups.com>, "pota@yahoogroups.com" <pota@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] New scripts added to Hunter's site
Date: 06/06/06 21:06

Two new TV series scripts have been added to the script archive on Hunter's site:

 

The Good Seeds - First Draft by Robert W. Lenski - thanks to Mark Rogers and John Roche for their help in acquiring this earlier draft of the script for the first Apes episode filmed. Previously the archive had only the Final Revised script for this episode.

 

The Horse Race - Second Draft by David P. Lewis and Booker Bradshaw. The episode was titled simply The Race at this stage, and the script is much different than the filmed episode. Thanks to Mark Rogers for supplying the scans for this script from his collection.

 

Hunter's site:

https://pota.goatley.com

 

Mark's site:

http://www.hadleyburg.demon.co.uk/patv/

 

Greg

 

 

Thanks Greg.

What scripts are now missing?

Michael

.,___

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I'd left the TV on Cartoon Network after Adult Swim

and what do you think I saw when I turned it back on?

Billy on The Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy had

defrosted Fred Flintstone.  And when he was refrozen

in an ice cream accident he buried him for the future,

which was portrayed by a half buried Statue of Liberty.

 

 

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I'm sure Patrick will correct me if I'm wrong,

but I believe the old blood tests could only

conclusively exclude paternity, not confirm

it, by checking the possible blood types of

the pairing. And as for comparative anatomy,

I wouldn't put much into these movies.  The

makers certainly didn't.  Not if we're supposed

to believe Z & C are the same species as

those apes.  Or that those apes were apes.

 

 

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.html.html In a message dated 6/6/2006 1:51:55 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

My dad told me it meant the chimp babies where switched and because Zira had a male (and the other chimp was a female) she didn't want them to see the gender of the chimp baby and find her real baby.

...Which makes sense to an extent, BUT, the authorities would not have known the sex of the child ape... Remember, he was born in secrecy and out of view of Hasslein and Company... The authorities wouldn't know what the baby was until they had fully interrogated Stevie and Lewis & Armando, and even then there's no guarantee they would know what was born... After all, S & L could just say that Z & C were out of their sight and care and Zira gave birth out of sight so they'd not know what was born... And Armando had been checked out already, so they'd think he didn't have any contact with them and wouldn't know the gender either...<.html <.html

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----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:17 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Got Cornelius?

In a message dated 6/3/2006 10:39:49 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

Bill auditioned to do Cornelius in the POTA cartoon but was turned down because he sounded "too much" like Roddy and they were afraid Roddy would sue.

Well, if that's the case, then why didn't he simply create another voice for his audition(s)? Or, just audition using his regular voice? There certainly are ways he could have gotten around "sounding like Roddy"... I'm afraid I just don't buy it...

Then they traced over Bill's picture for the "Mission of Mercy" episode without credit or compensation.

I'm pretty sure that they would have been using the stills that FOX gave them to work with... As such, they were probably owned by the studio and any residuals would have been paid out before hand... Unless he owned the pictures himself, it's very unlikely he'd get paid for them using anything the studio owned...

Bill did his part for POTA but POTA has not been kind to him.

I'd disagree with that... His going around as Cornelius was a big part in the launching of his career... Plus, I seen where he sells face castings of the APES makeups mounted on wood... He owes the start of his career to the APES "roadshow", and he still profits from APES today with the items he sells... APES owes him nothing...
<.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/6/2006 1:55:36 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

 

Well, I think it is due to poor thinking/writing by Dehn.

  EXACTLY!!!!

He should have set Conquest FAR into the future,

     Agreed again... The only reason they set CONQUEST in Caesar's adulthood was so they could have continuity and show the fate of the baby from the previous film...

was he Caesar with Armando or did he choose that name himself?

     Yes, he was Caesar when he was with Armando... Right near the beginning of the film Armando calls him Caesar and he never mentions his former "Milo" name...



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.html.html In a message dated 6/6/2006 6:26:21 AM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

I think Zira did it....




Everyone knows that Zira did the switch... It's very obvious when she goes into the cage with Heloise (to "say goodbye") that she is up to something other than just saying "farewell"... <.html <.html

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----- Original Message -----

From: TZer0@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:21 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

In a message dated 6/5/2006 10:00:01 A.M. Central Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  It's possible Armando made the switch, not Zira. Doesn't she continue to
talk to it when they are on the run? - - - Jeff

 

I don't buy that. That scene in the cage would have no purpose.

 

 

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----- Original Message -----

From: atragon1@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:13 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

In a message dated 6/5/2006 9:17:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, darios@... writes:

Setting aside the very probable fact that was pointed out that it may
have been impossible to get to the chimp in time (sharks, etc), even
if the body was recovered, so what?

Remember that DNA technology just wasn't available (neither in '74 the
year of the movie, and just barely in the supposed 1980 that the film
was set in). Even if the technology was available, there really was no
reason to suspect that a switch had been made. The fact that Zira
through the baby in the water supported the notion that she herself
believed it to be her own, an act that would have erased any doubts to
those who may have questioned the matter further.

We (the audience) only know she did the switch, because her
circumstances allowed it(being in Armondo's Circus at a time a baby
chimp was there as well).

Dario

At the time of ESCAPE, a simple blood test could have proven if Cornelius was the father of the chimp or not.

 

I have no doubt that the authorities would have made extraordinary attempts to recover the body of an alien visitor from the shallow waters of the harbor. I would guess that once the blood work was done, the authorities were well aware that the chimp was not baby Milo. Putting the blood work aside, a comparative autopsy would have proven that the baby chimp's brain and vocal anatomy were not the same as C&Z.

 

And didn't Hasslein shoot the baby dead before Zira through him in the harbor?

Bill

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of veetus@...
Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 1:55 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Got Cornelius? ,_._,__  

 

  b) The picture they traced over is Bill's that he left there after his audition. He had it photographed specifically for his purposes. It wasn't Fox's to use without permission. They were so exact they even traced an identifying scar by Bill's eye. Obviously they had a lot of pictures to choose from so the fact that they used that particular picture and were so exacting about shows there was something in Bill's performance they wanted. Instead that picture is often assumed to be Roddy (such as in a recent "Simian Scrolls"). _

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Whitty
Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 9:57 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Introductory Massage.....

No wait – I mean – Neil.....we have a few new members.

Could you please send the introductory welcome?

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.html.html In a message dated 6/6/2006 11:18:45 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

That's probably why the government in "Conquest" is so paranoid. They knew they didn't get the right baby. I guess we have to assume they never made the connection with Armando. -

NOT TRUE...

It's believed they had gotten the right baby up until the whole Caesar fiasco... It was only then that Breck started to reconsider things and got to thinking that "maybe" the right infant wasn't killed...

And what connection would there be to Armando? His circus was checked and believed to have been "clean" of the talking chimps, so they went on their way...

<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/6/2006 4:38:34 PM Central Standard Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- Jeff, now that Fox has released the cartoons on DVD would it be worth Bill doing something about it now to try and get some sort of compensation and/or recognition?
 


For what?

It may have been a picture that Bill had taken specifically, but let's not forget he was in POTA makeup and FOX owns POTA... They probably DID have rights to it being that it IS their property and he was under license from them... He was made up as a trademarked character that FOX owns exclusively...<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/6/2006 4:11:31 PM Central Standard Time, whitty@... writes:

       

Ahhh....but if they found out Z&C were in the Circus they could have discovered that the gender of Armando's chimp had changed!




When Armando is being checked by the authorities, he never said that Heloise's baby was a female... As a matter of fact, when they're looking around and Armando is talking about when the baby was born, it really sounds like he says "Look how he's growing..."<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/6/2006 10:47:22 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

They were so exact they even traced an identifying scar by Bill's eye. Obviously they had a lot of pictures to choose from so the fact that they used that particular picture and were so exacting about shows there was something in Bill's performance they wanted.

How do you figure that? I mean a picture left behind would have no connction to the guy's performance... It was a still left behind, that probably got mixed in with the rest of the APES stills and that was that... The way he looked made up would have had no bearing on his voacl work (if they liked it or not...)

Instead that picture is often assumed to be Roddy (such as in a recent "Simian Scrolls").

If that's the case, then maybe that's why the "mysterious missing scene" from "The Interrogation" was cut... They might not have wanted people thinking Galen was in there twice...

c) Bill and Paula didn't "get" the gig to tour as Cornelius and Zira. It was their idea and their hard work to do as good a job as they did.

    They did "get" FOX's permission to go out as the apes, so that was something though... I mean FOX gave them the     rights to use their property to tour as C & Z after all...

  He still hasn't begun on those collectibles you mentioned.

  Why not? They are being advertised as being available on the last page of the newest issue of "Simian Scrolls"... He's not going around selling items he doesn't even have yet is he? (If that's the case, then he should be in cahoots with a certain comic dealer out of Canada who shall remain nameless...)

I'm just saying it's too bad with Bill's quality ape work his performance in the TV show is lost and his "performance" in the cartoon was "stolen"

 

   I have seen that bit where he does Caesar's speech from CONQUEST... I will agree with you that he does do pretty good work... That said, he still didn't have any part in the cartoon other than having his still used...

<.html<.html

.html

 

They had to be genetically altered.

Unless we're supposed to believe

they're the same apes.  Then again,

those Orangs magically transform

after putting them in jumpsuits, so

I don't know what we're supposed

to believe.  Maybe it's the suits!

 

 

<.html

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In a message dated 6/6/2006 6:24:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

That's the question – what IS the true spirit of the original?

 

POTA was a shocking film.  Shock after shock.

Even though we knew there were apes, when

you first see the humans, you think, "Oh cavemen!"

Wrong . . . Shock Horror!  Gorillas on horses!  "Oh

there's Landon!"  Shock Horror!  Lobotomized!  "Ah,

he's free!"  Shock Horror!  It's Earth!   The new one

tried with that Calima thing and an ending borrowed

from the book.  But it takes a lot more to shock an

audience today.  Bonnie & Clyde was shocking then.

Now it would just be a run-of-the-mill motion picture.

But that's just one element in the spirit of the original.

 

<.html

Hi to all, im a new member from the uk, ive had an interest in all
things sc/fi and horror since i was a young kid, im now 40, the
original "Planet Of The Apes" film has always held a special place for
me and i still find it an amazing film to watch,

Im also a big fan of Ray Harryhausen and the Hammer films of the 60's
and 70's, but this is an ape forum so ill keep it just "Ape", i look
forward to chatting with you along the way.

Simon

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 2:07 PM

Subject: RE: {Disarmed} Re: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

For such a paranoid Government, they were quick to raise enormous apes to release on society! 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of veetus@...
Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 2:21 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: {Disarmed} Re: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

  That's probably why the government in "Conquest" is so paranoid. They knew they didn't get the right baby. I guess we have to assume they never made the connection with Armando. - - - Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: atragon1@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 8:13 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

In a message dated 6/5/2006 9:17:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, darios@... writes:

Setting aside the very probable fact that was pointed out that it may
have been impossible to get to the chimp in time (sharks, etc), even
if the body was recovered, so what?

Remember that DNA technology just wasn't available (neither in '74 the
year of the movie, and just barely in the supposed 1980 that the film
was set in). Even if the technology was available, there really was no
reason to suspect that a switch had been made. The fact that Zira
through the baby in the water supported the notion that she herself
believed it to be her own, an act that would have erased any doubts to
those who may have questioned the matter further.

We (the audience) only know she did the switch, because her
circumstances allowed it(being in Armondo's Circus at a time a baby
chimp was there as well).

Dario

At the time of ESCAPE, a simple blood test could have proven if Cornelius was the father of the chimp or not.

I have no doubt that the authorities would have made extraordinary attempts to recover the body of an alien visitor from the shallow waters of the harbor. I would guess that once the blood work was done, the authorities were well aware that the chimp was not baby Milo. Putting the blood work aside, a comparative autopsy would have proven that the baby chimp's brain and vocal anatomy were not the same as C&Z.

And didn't Hasslein shoot the baby dead before Zira through him in the harbor?

Bill

<.html

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----- Original Message -----

From: Neil T Foster

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 2:36 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Got Cornelius?

-- Jeff, now that Fox has released the cartoons on DVD would it be worth Bill doing something about it now to try and get some sort of compensation and/or recognition?

 

Neil

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of veetus@...
Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 1:55 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Got Cornelius? ,_._,__  

 

  b) The picture they traced over is Bill's that he left there after his audition. He had it photographed specifically for his purposes. It wasn't Fox's to use without permission. They were so exact they even traced an identifying scar by Bill's eye. Obviously they had a lot of pictures to choose from so the fact that they used that particular picture and were so exacting about shows there was something in Bill's performance they wanted. Instead that picture is often assumed to be Roddy (such as in a recent "Simian Scrolls"). _

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 6:52 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?

In a message dated 6/6/2006 11:18:45 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

That's probably why the government in "Conquest" is so paranoid. They knew they didn't get the right baby. I guess we have to assume they never made the connection with Armando. -

NOT TRUE...

It's believed they had gotten the right baby up until the whole Caesar fiasco... It was only then that Breck started to reconsider things and got to thinking that "maybe" the right infant wasn't killed...

And what connection would there be to Armando? His circus was checked and believed to have been "clean" of the talking chimps, so they went on their way...

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 7:02 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Got Cornelius?

In a message dated 6/6/2006 4:38:34 PM Central Standard Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- Jeff, now that Fox has released the cartoons on DVD would it be worth Bill doing something about it now to try and get some sort of compensation and/or recognition?
 


For what?

It may have been a picture that Bill had taken specifically, but let's not forget he was in POTA makeup and FOX owns POTA... They probably DID have rights to it being that it IS their property and he was under license from them... He was made up as a trademarked character that FOX owns exclusively...

<.html

 .html

----- Original Message -----

From: TZer0@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2006 9:06 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Cast & Crew

In a message dated 6/6/2006 6:24:15 A.M. Central Daylight Time, whitty@... writes:

That's the question – what IS the true spirit of the original?

 

POTA was a shocking film.  Shock after shock.

Even though we knew there were apes, when

you first see the humans, you think, "Oh cavemen!"

Wrong . . . Shock Horror!  Gorillas on horses!  "Oh

there's Landon!"  Shock Horror!  Lobotomized!  "Ah,

he's free!"  Shock Horror!  It's Earth!   The new one

tried with that Calima thing and an ending borrowed

from the book.  But it takes a lot more to shock an

audience today.  Bonnie & Clyde was shocking then.

Now it would just be a run-of-the-mill motion picture.

But that's just one element in the spirit of the original.

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/7/2006 11:09:09 A.M. Central Daylight Time, veetus@... writes:

  POTA2001 didn't earn it's shocks because it had sitcom characters. You have to have a certain atmosphere for "shocks" to work.

 

Too right!  POTA should never never be played for laughs.

Even that one 3 Monkeys scene was a mistake, and Kim

thought so too.  But I guess they felt it was so heavy it

needed a tension breaker.  And I can excuse one. I

won't say that Paul Giamatti ruined that movie single

handedly, because he had a lot of help ruining it.

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg Plonowski
Sent: Wednesday, 7 June 2006 10:42 PM
To: pota@yahoogroups.com; potadg@yahoogroups.com; friends & fugitives
Subject: [PotaDG] Marvel UK issue 86

This week's issue, containing the stunning conclusion to last week's story of Derek Zane and the chimp who calls himself Robin Hood, is now available to download from Hunter's site.

 

Next week, Jason and Alexander are back with more Terror on the Planet of the Apes!

 

https://pota.goatley.com

 

<.html

.html <.html

Coming form a female's standpoint, every mother intuitively knows the baby
is really hers. Second, when Zira changes the diaper, she would know right
off that this chimp isn't hers. To add to conterversy, I believe Cornelius
didn't have a clue.

>From: "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...>
>Reply-To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
>To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: RE: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?
>Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2006 21:24:51 +1000
>
>I think Zira did it....
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
>Of veetus@...
>Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2006 1:02 AM
>To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: RE: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?
>
> It's possible Armando made the switch, not Zira. Doesn't she continue
>to
>talk to it when they are on the run? - - - Jeff
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dario Sciola" <darios@...>
>To: <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 6:16 AM
>Subject: Re: RE: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?
>
>
>Setting aside the very probable fact that was pointed out that it may
>have been impossible to get to the chimp in time (sharks, etc), even
>if the body was recovered, so what?
>
>Remember that DNA technology just wasn't available (neither in '74 the
>year of the movie, and just barely in the supposed 1980 that the film
>was set in). Even if the technology was available, there really was no
>reason to suspect that a switch had been made. The fact that Zira
>through the baby in the water supported the notion that she herself
>believed it to be her own, an act that would have erased any doubts to
>those who may have questioned the matter further.
>
>We (the audience) only know she did the switch, because her
>circumstances allowed it(being in Armondo's Circus at a time a baby
>chimp was there as well).
>
>Dario
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Neil T Foster <ntfoster@...>
>Date: Sunday, June 4, 2006 5:05 pm
>Subject: RE: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?
>
> > -- One thing that has always bugged me is wouldn't the body of (fake)
> > baby Milo have been recovered from the water? Surely the authorities
> > would want to confirm it's death and more importantly it's identity?
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
>Behalf
> > Of majorhendricks
> > Sent: Monday, 5 June 2006 12:48 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] How did the Apes get so smart after CONQUEST?
> >
> >
> > I would conjecture that after the apeonaut's deaths, there bodies
> > were put into storage and used -- from time to time -- by
> > scientists
> > for study.
>
>--

Very good scenario Bill. I've tangoed with this question as well, even going
as far as writing fanfic that was at length of a trilogy. Imagine what Fox
could with the "what if" for "Conquest", which to me is indeed an open
book. So much had happened during that time, events which are profound to
the apes' history and their future.


Welcome to the group.


Wendy

>
>I would conjecture that after the apeonaut's deaths, there bodies
>were put into storage and used -- from time to time -- by scientists
>for study. Years later, the plague from space killed man's pets and
>apes were then used as a substitute. It was not long after this that
>is was realized the Apes could be trained for manual labor, however
>training them and conditioning them was costly and time consuming --
>and their abilities were limited at best.
>
>It would be at this point that the company or companies that procured
>the ape slave trade discovered that the genes of Cornelius, Zira and
>Milo could be used to breed a new race of apes -- eugenically
>programmed to learn quicker than your average ape.
>
>Of course, the government approved of this -- no doubt the lobbying
>dollars of these powerful ape brokers, outweighed the prophecies of
>C&Z regarding the downfall of mankind.
>
>By the time Caesar arrives in the city, I would think that there were
>already isolated incidents of apes who could speak. These apes were
>rounded up and destroyed immediately by the police. Why else would
>the police be so ready to accept the possibility that it was Caesar
>who could have made the outburst?
>
>It was too late when man realized that these apes were now too smart -
>- there was no way to remove all the apes from society without the
>economy collapsing. All they could do was to create a "police state"
>and destroy any and all apes that were too intelligent (classified
>as "disobedient") as they surfaced. Caesar is really only the spark
>that sets off the forest fire that would be the ape revolution.
>
>Bill
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

.html.html The offical DVD release of Lancelot Link is this Tuesday, June 13.  I've pre-ordered mine.  Anyone else getting it?

-- Rory<.html<.html

I'll go out and get it!!!

Tim

Haristas@... wrote:

The offical DVD release of Lancelot Link is this Tuesday, June 13.  I've pre-ordered mine.  Anyone else getting it?

-- Rory

---

Ring'em or ping'em. Make PC-to-phone calls as low as 1¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice.

I can't wait. I will be at Best Buy right after work. My Son is going
to love these.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Haristas@... wrote:
>
> The offical DVD release of Lancelot Link is this Tuesday, June 13.
I've
> pre-ordered mine. Anyone else getting it?
>
> -- Rory
>

Yeah if you send it to me!  :)

--------- Original Message --------
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
To: "pota@yahoogroups.com" <pota@yahoogroups.com>, "PotaDG@yahoogroups.com" <PotaDG@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: {Disarmed} [PotaDG] Lancelot Link: Secret Chimp
Date: 08/06/06 19:50

The offical DVD release of Lancelot Link is this Tuesday, June 13.  I've pre-ordered mine.  Anyone else getting it?

-- Rory

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Greg Plonowski

To: pota@yahoogroups.com ; potadg@yahoogroups.com ; friends & fugitives

Sent: Wednesday, June 07, 2006 8:41 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] Marvel UK issue 86

This week's issue, containing the stunning conclusion to last week's story of Derek Zane and the chimp who calls himself Robin Hood, is now available to download from Hunter's site.

 

Next week, Jason and Alexander are back with more Terror on the Planet of the Apes!

 

https://pota.goatley.com

 

Greg

<.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/7/2006 12:09:27 PM Central Standard Time, TZer0@... writes:

POTA should never never be played for laughs.

Right on!!!!! You are right on the ball T!!!<.html <.html

.html.html In a message dated 6/7/2006 8:45:15 PM Central Standard Time, lmelogra@... writes:

hey all..I'm a new guy...now call me an idiot...but when did they start reissuing POTA comic books?

Reissuing them? Do you mean the re-issues of the TERROR comics? Those were put out by ADVENTURE in about 90 or 91 I think...

If you mean the REVOLUTION series, that started a few months ago...

<.html <.html

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In a message dated 6/7/2006 6:16:18 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Willowape@... writes:

Coming form a female's standpoint, every mother intuitively knows the baby
is really hers

 

For the most part I agree, especially the diaper part.

However then have been hospital screw ups with

babies and the mothers were none the wiser,

which would tend to discount a mothers

instincts if they hadn't had a chance

to bond yet.  I have now doubt she

did the switch though.  I know

this intuitively!  Not just

from studying film, but

from studying the

expression on

her face.

I mean . . .

What do you need?

An X-Ray showing the wheels turning in her mind?

How about a Light Bulb turning on over her head?

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/7/2006 8:45:06 P.M. Central Daylight Time, lmelogra@... writes:

...now call me an idiot...

 

Okay kid . . . You're an idiot.  ; )

But seriously, I don't think they did

reissue them . . . as far as I know.

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 6/7/2006 9:19:05 P.M. Central Daylight Time, mlccougar@... writes:

Reissuing them? Do you mean the re-issues of the TERROR comics? Those were put out by ADVENTURE in about 90 or 91 I think...

If you mean the REVOLUTION series, that started a few months ago...

 

I think he's talking about the original releases on hunter's site.

 

 

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Lou Melograna
Sent: Thursday, 8 June 2006 11:25 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com; pota@yahoogroups.com; friends & fugitives
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Marvel UK issue 86

hey all..I'm a new guy...now call me an idiot...but when did they start reissuing POTA comic books?

 _,_._,___

<.html

.html <.html

-- Lou, If you are referring to the Marvel UK comics, these are scanned by group member Greg Plonowski and hosted by Hunter Goatley (along with many, many other Apes goodies) on his POTA archive site.

Greg has been hard at work doing this for a while now starting with the first issue and he will be continuing to the end of the run I believe.

Which means he's probably got another year or two to go now with them I would guess?

 

Neil

 

.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /boots.jpg
Uploaded by : mike_oz2005 <whitty@...>
Description : Simon's Boots

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/boots.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

mike_oz2005 <whitty@...>

.html <.html

Attachments :

.html <.html

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /S5020305.JPG
Uploaded by : mike_oz2005 <whitty@...>
Description : Simon Profile 1

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/S5020305.JPG

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

mike_oz2005 <whitty@...>

.html <.html

Hi Mike
about the boots, i had them made by Brian over at the "Apemania"
studios, ive fancied having a costume made for some time but the
price was a bit out of my reach at the time, as a collector of
sci/fi and horror film stuff from the 60's and 70's and since this
had been going on for over 30 years i thought it was about time i
had a little clear out...to my pleasant suprise several of the sales
afforded me the opportunity to put together a full gorilla uniform,
i contacted brian and after a few days of sending over many
measurements they got to work.

What you see in the first picture file are the superb leather boots,
i thought at first these would have been made of rubber but when
brian sent me pics of the finished items i was very pleasantly
suprised, the boots are full leather top to bottom, the ape split
toe is cast in rubber and then glued to the front section of the
boot, next to be applied are the calf buckles on the side of each
boot, these again are made of rubber, the boots are then sprayed a
very dark plum colour and then a liberal sprinkling of fullers earth
is applied to give them that rode in look...

Although they may seem a little steep in price (these cost me $350)
believe me when you get them the cost is forgoten, they also do a
delux hand made pair of boots which have i believe the split toe
also made in leather along with proper side buckles, at the end of
the day you are only going to buy something this expensive once in
your life so why not have the best available, brian at apemania also
tells me that all the castings ( split toes / buckles ) are all cast
from originals / or moulds of originals

simon



- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Whitty" <whitty@...> wrote:

>
> Hey All
>
> New member Simon has a very fancy gorilla outfit he has sent me

some

> photos of.
>
> I will be uploading these to the FILES SECTION as time permits.
>
> For starters - the BOOTS!
>
> Simon, could you tell us about the boots? Restoration or

reproduction?

> Price? Etc!
>
>

http://f6.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/QBGIRMU7dbYL7dUx_0Fp7sCanapjTPHx8r5FwVC_
jmm

> poAhlK0rirSdFQwR6THM_Nr-QxBF3ZjpK6AUVzQKC/boots.jpg
>