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.htmlThanks for posting this Whitty...


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.html In a message dated 2/23/2008 2:49:35 PM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

Most thanks really needs to go to the 2 Neils – Mr Foster for encouraging me to follow this up and Mr Moxham for sharing the information and helping us to follow up.

Can't wait for Tom to join the group sp we can ask him some questions.

It's not often that we get something fresh and previously unknown!


*** I agree... It will be interesting to find out more... ***


**************
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----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:35 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

In a message dated 2/23/2008 2:49:35 PM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@ bigpond.com writes:

Most thanks really needs to go to the 2 Neils – Mr Foster for encouraging me to follow this up and Mr Moxham for sharing the information and helping us to follow up.

Can't wait for Tom to join the group sp we can ask him some questions.

It's not often that we get something fresh and previously unknown!


*** I agree... It will be interesting to find out more... ***


************ **
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 9:36 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2



   and as far as I know Bill never used a costume made by Paula (they had actual costumes from the movies, Paula didn't pull a Betsy Ross)

.

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----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 3:55 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Paula

Jeff

Does Bill Blake have any contact with Paula these days?

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Sunday, 24 February 2008 9:36 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

  

   There's some misinformation there - - Paula didn't do "Conquest" or the TV show, though she's got a nice close-up as a human in "Battle", and as far as I know Bill never used a costume made by Paula (they had actual costumes from the movies, Paula didn't pull a Betsy Ross) - - but it sounds like Paula will be the San Francisco treat this weekend. i wish I could go.  Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@aol. com

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:35 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

In a message dated 2/23/2008 2:49:35 PM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@ bigpond.com writes:

Most thanks really needs to go to the 2 Neils – Mr Foster for encouraging me to follow this up and Mr Moxham for sharing the information and helping us to follow up.

Can't wait for Tom to join the group sp we can ask him some questions.

It's not often that we get something fresh and previously unknown!


*** I agree... It will be interesting to find out more... ***

<.html

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----- Original Message -----

From: Neil Foster

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 11:20 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

-- Wasn't there an article in one of the Marvel magazines that shows them wearing home made costumes as well as the official stuff? I'm pretty sure it states that she made them as well?

 

Neil

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 9:36 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2



   and as far as I know Bill never used a costume made by Paula (they had actual costumes from the movies, Paula didn't pull a Betsy Ross)

.

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----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 12:33 AM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Paula

So we shouldn't try to organize an on-line DG reunion?  J

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Sunday, 24 February 2008 6:34 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Paula

  

  No, Bill and Paula had a bad falling out. And I was wrong, those costumes Paula made(Bill did the feet) WERE used in the early days and in emergencies. But mostly they used the authentic costumes.

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael & Sally Whitty

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 3:55 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Paula

Jeff

Does Bill Blake have any contact with Paula these days?

Michael

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [ PotaDG@yahoogroups. com ] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Sunday, 24 February 2008 9:36 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

  

   There's some misinformation there - - Paula didn't do "Conquest" or the TV show, though she's got a nice close-up as a human in "Battle", and as far as I know Bill never used a costume made by Paula (they had actual costumes from the movies, Paula didn't pull a Betsy Ross) - - but it sounds like Paula will be the San Francisco treat this weekend. i wish I could go.  Jeff

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@aol. com

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com

Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 1:35 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

In a message dated 2/23/2008 2:49:35 PM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@ bigpond.com writes:

Most thanks really needs to go to the 2 Neils – Mr Foster for encouraging me to follow this up and Mr Moxham for sharing the information and helping us to follow up.

Can't wait for Tom to join the group sp we can ask him some questions.

It's not often that we get something fresh and previously unknown!


*** I agree... It will be interesting to find out more... ***

<.html

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.html In a message dated 2/23/2008 5:22:39 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 There's some misinformation there - - Paula didn't do "Conquest" or the TV show, though she's got a nice close-up as a human in "Battle", and as far as I know Bill never used a costume made by Paula (they had actual costumes from the movies, Paula didn't pull a Betsy Ross) - - but it sounds like Paula will be the San Francisco treat this weekend. i wish I could go.

**** Well, in the newest Simian Scrolls, the Paula Crist-Pickett had this to say: "Bill Blake and I met shortly after I had been in the film (referring to BATTLE). He had come out to Los Angeles to become a make-up artist. He made ape appliances and I made us the costumes." That lead into how they approached FOX to get the license after their first mall appearance in the Midwest.

I'm guessing that maybe she did make up some ape outfits for their initial go round with the make-ups and all and maybe they wore them at the first mall appearance? I know that the promotional card they had says that their attraction features "Original costumes that were worn by Roddy Mc Dowall, Kim Hunter, and others..." But then again, they were licensed by that point and had access to the actual wardrobe.


**************
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.html In a message dated 2/24/2008 2:26:21 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

She didn't do stunts or play an ape in any of the movies or shows (in the magazine she says she played a background chimp but Bill says that's not true). In fact she was pretty upset because Arthur Jacobs told her she'd play an ape and she didn't get to.

*** The reason she didn't get to play an ape was because the casting director wouldn't give her a speaking role because she wasn't in the Screen Actors Guild. Of course we know she was the blonde in the corral and she was an ape in the film, but as a background extra. ***


**************
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.html In a message dated 2/24/2008 2:32:05 AM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

Nothing is as it seems is it?

*** It all depends on who you believe... The stuff in the newest issue of SCROLLS says otherwise. The things he said are true to an extent, but then you have to look at the context as well... For instance, the thing about not playing an ape in BATTLE is true, but then again being made up as a background extra doesn't neccessarily mean you're "acting/playing", you're just there as a prop basically... ***


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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:40 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2



   Yeah, like I amended (after talking to Bill), they did use those costumes in the blog, but rarely. Bill says Paula played the human in the corral in "Beneath", but that's all. She didn't do stunts or play an ape in any of the movies or shows (in the magazine she says she played a background chimp but Bill says that's not true). In fact she was pretty upset because Arthur Jacobs told her she'd play an ape and she didn't get to. She admitted as much to Bill in a letter.

.

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----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:17 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

In a message dated 2/24/2008 2:26:21 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@earthlink. net writes:

She didn't do stunts or play an ape in any of the movies or shows (in the magazine she says she played a background chimp but Bill says that's not true). In fact she was pretty upset because Arthur Jacobs told her she'd play an ape and she didn't get to.

*** The reason she didn't get to play an ape was because the casting director wouldn't give her a speaking role because she wasn't in the Screen Actors Guild. Of course we know she was the blonde in the corral and she was an ape in the film, but as a background extra. ***


************ **
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
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The latest of the "CORNELIUS' JOURNALS " thing that they're doing over at the old POTA Yahoo site -- the one dated "June 11 3978" -- begins thusly:

"This is my first entry in a few months. I have been busy teaching and things have been very quiet of late. Zira is happy in her new position doing behavioral studies of humans . Overall life is good but a bit boring."

Whaaa???

Zira's "new position" -- just 168 days prior to the "November 25th 3978" entry -- is "doing behavioral studies of humans"???

In ESCAPE, Zira tells the Presidential Commission that "in a WHOLE LIFETIME devoted to the scientific study of humans, I've only found two others who could talk. God knows who taught them."

She, obviously, was referring to Taylor and Brent -- the only two humans whom she HEARD talking. Landon, whom she (probably) believed once COULD talk, had been lobotomized by Zaius' vets, so she never actually heard him talk.

Incidentally, it's a wonder that the Presidential Commission members never followed-up on this statement of hers. They surely must have wondered just who were those "two" humans whom she had encountered prior to landing in the spaceship in 1973.

But, I digress.

If Zira has spent upwards of her "whole lifetime" scientifically studying humans, how could any POTA fanfic writer deem it plausible that she began doing "behavioral studies" a mere 5 months prior to the events depicted in PLANET?

As PLANET opens, we find that Zira has -- probably fairly recently , i.e. within the last 5 years, perhaps -- "made it" professionally. With the abolishment of the Quota System, she was able to get the "space and equipment" in her lab that she needed to do the "experimental brain surgery" that Zaius (the Minister of Science) had endorsed.

We know from ESCAPE that Zira had also done work on "comparative" anatomy -- comparing the anatomies of Apes and Humans, the Apes after they'd died a natural death and the Humans whom the gorilla Hunt Club had captured for dissection and vivisection. Remember Zira's slip-of-the-tongue ("As to humans, I've dissec-... uh, I've examined thousands..." etc)? And remember Lucius' line ( "The Anti-Vivisection Society is up-in-arms; they're gonna save this beast from those butchers in the labs..."). Lucius was referring to the kind of work Zira herself did on humans.

It should be remarked here -- for those of you who may not know the difference -- but DISSECTION is the surgical "taking apart" of lab animals (by inference, usually dead animals), whereas VIVISECTION is the surgical cutting-up of living lab animals (the "vivi-" part of the word denoting the "still alive" condition of the "guinea pig"/"lab rat"/test animal). Remember Zaius' threats to Taylor regarding "emasculation" and then "experimental brain surgery"... "a kind of living death"...?

Are we to believe that Zira only recently had begun doing behavioral studies? Is this only a recent development in her career doing scientific studies of human beings?

I suppose other POTA fans can speculate all they wish regarding these notions. For my money, I think it's somewhat naive to think that Zira had only recently begun doing "behavioral studies" of humans. I think that she had been covertly doing such studies -- albeit not in a nice lab setting -- for years, and is taking advantage of the fact that her current job affords her the opportunity to do more behavioral studies on-the-side, unofficially.

And, that's the crux of it: when we first see her in her lab after Taylor's blood transfusion, we see her trying to get mute humans to "Speak!" by offering them sugar cubes. When she does this, Julius warns her to be careful, and she pish-toshes him: "Oh, don't be silly, he's perfectly tame!" -- "They're all tame, until they take a chunk out of you!" he replies.

Moments later, she interprets Taylor's voiceless attempt to talk: "He keeps trying to form words!"

And Julius says, "You know what they say: Human See, Human Do!"

In other words, it is common knowledge that humans mimic (or "ape") the Apes. Zaius reluctantly admits that "Bright Eyes" has "a definite gift for mimicry."

My point is, that Zaius did not back Zira's work in her lab for the purposes of her behavioral studies of humans. He is "all in favor" of her "experimental brain surgery" on humans: as Zira tells Dr. Galen, "I'm an animal psychologist, that's all. We [i.e. Chimps] have no authority."

Dr. Galen: "You do all right when it comes to getting space and equipment."

Zira: "That's because Dr. Zaius realizes our work has value. The foundations of scientific brain surgery are being laid right here, in studies of cerebral functions of these animals."

When Zaius visits her lab, he "must caution" Zira -- telling her that he is "all in favor" of her "experimental brain surgery" work, yet criticizing her for her "behavioral studies." You all get that? He's for the brain surgery experiments, yet against Zira's behavioral studies, which is echoed later by Dr. Honorius' prosecutorial statement that "the proper study of Apes is Apes... But certain young cynics have chosen to study Man! Yes... perverted scientists who advance an insidious theory called Evolution!"

Zaius had told Zira that "to suggest that we can learn anything about the Simian nature from a study of Man is sheer nonsense!"

That's what he thinks of her "behavioral studies" of Man. He thinks they're nonsense. And that's not what she's supposed to be doing in her lab! What Zira referred to -- to Dr. Galen -- as "our work" was the surgical comparative vivisection studies of the human brain, the cerebral functions of those "animals" in order to lay the foundation for brain surgery on Apes.

The cerebrum (according to the DISCOVER Science Almanac, page 555) is: "The largest and most conspicuous part of the brain, containing more than 70 percent of the brain's cells. A long fissure separates the cerebrum into right and left hemispheres. The hemispheres communicate with one another through a tract of fibers called the corpus callosum. The cerebrum is responsible for consciousness, sensory perception, language, personality, mental activities such as memory and thinking, and movement of voluntary muscles."

Zira's job is to study the human CEREBRUM surgically -- whilst the study animal is alive , mind you -- so that she, as an "animal psychologist," can study the effects of the surgeries she performs. Look at that list of things the "cerebrum is responsible for" above, and it makes perfect sense that Zira's expertise in "animal psychology" would be needed in such experiments. With the sole exception of "language" -- the Humans of her world not having any language , let alone the ability to communicate with language , in the view of Ape official science -- all those other functions of the cerebrum are fundamental in regards to the future hope Ape Science has to do brain surgery on Apes , to restore function or surgically fix problems any Ape may face upon suffering brain damage... damage to an ape's ability to remember or to perceive things through their senses, that sort of thing.

The "Articles of Faith" in Apedom preclude any officially sanctioned notion that Humans "behave" on the same level that Apes do. Humans mimic Apes... they don't behave as Apes do due to any intrinsic "higher functions" in their brains. It is the Ape who had been given "a soul and a mind" by God (who made Apes in His own image), and it is a matter of dogma that "Men have no souls"... that "a divine spark exists in the simian brain."

Zira had probably been doing her own (covert, non-sanctioned) studying of human behavior for years, as one of those "perverted scientists" who go against the dogmas of the Ministry of Science. Zaius insists that "true science" isn't in conflict with the religious dogmas of the Apes (what he calls "faith"). The very notion that humans "behave" -- as the word is used of Ape behavior, instigated by Thoughts from a simian brain in possession of a Soul and a Mind -- is "sheer nonsense" from Zaius' point-of-view (at least, from his public view, since his private awareness of the Terrible Secret must be kept to himself).

I'll let it go at that. Hey, I don't want to knock other POTA fans' pet projects, but this "CORNELIUS' JOURNAL " thing is based on sheer misunderstandings about what was actually going on in the movies. There is no way in hell that Zira could have been given "her new position doing behavioral studies of humans" by the Ministry of Science -- which is headed by Zaius, the "Minister of Science" himself! The only "work" he wanted from her was the VIVISECTION surgery of humans -- brain surgery on living test animals -- so that she could utilize her "animal psychology" expertise to evaluate the effects of that surgery on the animals (the Humans) before and after the surgeries done on them, so that later on Ape surgeons could perform brain surgery on Apes -- since Apes and Humans are considered anatomically to be "God's Primates": alike enough in certain morphological, physical ways -- which warrants the practise of Comparative Anatomy, comparing the anatomies of (dead) Apes to living Humans -- yet spiritually unlike , in that God made Apes in His image and endowned them with Souls and Minds, yet not endowing the Human brain with a Soul, and only with the rudimentary animal mind that all other "beasts" possess (i.e. Instincts, etc.).

Why can't the guys doing this CORNELIUS' JOURNAL project understand that basic element of the plot of the movie?

Patrick

.html *** And that's what I said, although it can be hard to interpret meaning just by reading sometimes.

What I was getting at is this: When she met Arthur, he was impressed enough to offer her a role in BATTLE... When time for filming came along, Arthur was sick so she wasn't just a shoe in...  The casting director didn't give her a speaking role as an ape (or a human for that matter) because she lacked the SAG card...

She was an ape, albeit a background extra (who did not speak). That's why I kept trying to differentiate between a background ape as being a non-speaking role. A non-speaking role equates to no need for a SAG card because you're technically not "acting", you're a prop/atmosphere piece.

In a message dated 2/24/2008 12:03:57 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

A background ape wouldn't speak. She could of played an ape without a SAG card. But let's face it, what she got was pretty damn good. I'd prefer a close-up of myself to being a background ape. There's no denying it's her.

----- Original Message -----
From: mlccougar@...
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2


In a message dated 2/24/2008 2:26:21 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

She didn't do stunts or play an ape in any of the movies or shows (in the magazine she says she played a background chimp but Bill says that's not true). In fact she was pretty upset because Arthur Jacobs told her she'd play an ape and she didn't get to.

*** The reason she didn't get to play an ape was because the casting director wouldn't give her a speaking role because she wasn't in the Screen Actors Guild. Of course we know she was the blonde in the corral and she was an ape in the film, but as a background extra. ***







**************
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(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) <.html

In the Cave scene in PLANET, Zaius says, "Present your evidence, Cornelius."

We see Cornelius on the topmost level of the Cave's floor (let's call it "Ground Zero" to indicate that "zero" time has elapsed since it became the ground level of the Present Day from their standpoint in the latter half of the 40th Century).

Cornelius then steps down onto the next-to-the-top level (let's call this "Ground One" in that it is one "time period" removed from Ground Zero's present time, dating back to a Past era), and he says: "It was at this level that I discovered traces of an early ape creature... a stage of primitive barbarism, really, dating back some thirteen hundred years, roughly."

Cornelius then steps down another level (let's call this "Ground Two" in that it is two "time periods" removed from the Present "Ground Zero" level he began at) and he says: "It was at this level... I discovered cutting tools and arrowheads of quartz, and the fossilized bones of carnivorous gorillas."

Cornelius then steps down towards where Taylor's standing and proceeds over to a tarp on the "Ground Zero" level. He says, "But the artifacts lying here..." -- and he pulls the tarp up to reveal the objects that had been hidden beneath it -- "... were found..." -- and he then steps down to an even deeper level adjacent to where Zaius is standing. Let's call this level "Ground Three" in that it represents a stratigraphic level three "time periods" removed from the Present time. He continues: "... at this level, and date back, uh, seven hundred years earlier. That's the paradox... for the more ancient culture is the more advanced. Now, admittedly, many of these objects are unidentified; but clearly they were fashioned by beings with a knowledge of metallurgy. Indeed, the fact that many of these tools are unknown to us suggests a culture which, in certain ways, equals our own." He adds, "The Human Doll... The doll was found beside the jawbone of a Man, and no trace of simian fossil has been found in this deposit." Taylor asks, "You say these things [the "false teeth"... the "eyeglasses" and the "prefabricated valve" of an artificial heart] were found at the same level as that doll?" and Cornelius nods a Yes.

Here's the gist of it:

Ground ZERO: the Present level of the tiered layers of dust or silt.

Ground ONE: roughly 1,300 years BP (Before Present), where he found "traces" of an early ape creature at a stage of Primitive Barbarism... a mere century before the writing of the Sacred Scrolls, if we are to believe Zaius' dating of the Lawgiver (which I do).

Ground TWO: cutting tools... quartz arrowheads... carnivorous gorillas.

Ground THREE: the "more advanced" society with Metallurgy... the world dominated by Man at the time when he destroyed his own civilization.

First off, let's examine Cornelius' dating of the deepest level (Ground THREE) as dating "back 700 years earlier"... Earlier than When? He must be referring to the artifacts TWO LEVELS UP (i.e. what I call Ground ONE), which he had dated back "1300 years, roughly" from the Present. He isn't and cannot be dating Ground THREE back seven hundred years from the level in-between the two, since we know that the general dating scheme -- no matter what Zaius might think of it -- is accurate: the 1300 years added to the 700 years equals the "roughly" 2,000 years separating the end of the 20th Century (and the human-waged Nuclear War) from the end of the 40th Century... the "twenty centuries" Taylor nags Landon about.

But, at first glance, it seems as if Cornelius was dating the deepest level to a period 700 years earlier from the next level up, rather than the level two steps up from it (and one step down from the Present level). Since Cornelius never gave a time interval separating Ground TWO from Ground ONE (or from Ground TWO to Ground THREE either, for that matter), then it seems reasonable to say that Ground TWO represents an intermediate era, somewhere between 1,300 years BP and 2,000 BP, since it lies between those two levels of stratigraphical ground. Thus, the "carnivorous gorillas" would be dated to somewhere between -- halfway? -- 1300 BP and 2000 BP... let's say, splitting the difference just for fun, about 1,650 BP, or to around the beginning of the 24th Century (i.e. A.D. 2300, roughly).

But here's the kicker... and a possible problem for us. When Cornelius exposes the artifacts that were under the tarp -- the artifacts that date back to our time, the level at which "no trace of simian fossil" had been found -- we can clearly see a SKULL amongst the bones. And that skull sure as hell looks more like an APE skull than a HUMAN skull, doesn't it? Cornelius mentions "the jawbone of a Man" having been near the Human Doll. This pithecoid skull that had been beneath the tarp, though, still has its jawbone attached to it.

What do the rest of you think? Is this a "flub"? Am I misinterpreting this? If Cornelius had found no trace of simian fossil at that deepest level, and if those artifacts under the tarp -- including that apish skull -- were found at that deepest level... isn't this a goof on the part of the filmmakers? That skull doesn't look like a human skull to me. It looks like the kind of skull we would expect to find under the dermis of a POTA-style Ape.

I want some feedback from you monkeys, dammit! Chime in and let's discuss this. I think it's important.

Patrick

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilton
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 4:18 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] More CORNELIUS' JOURNAL musings...

Why can't the guys doing this CORNELIUS' JOURNAL project understand that basic element of the plot of the movie?

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 5:03 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

She was an ape, albeit a background extra (who did not speak). That's why I kept trying to differentiate between a background ape as being a non-speaking role. A non-speaking role equates to no need for a SAG card because you're technically not "acting", you're a prop/atmosphere piece.

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 6:36 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] WonderCon

He’ll be joining the group shortly to discuss…

http://www.trubalca va.com/blog/

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 6:36 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] WonderCon

Thanks to Neil M for his background work on this!

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:25 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

but then she was approached by the company Martin Marrieta
(now Lockheed Martin) for the Ape couple to appear at a company
retreat and week of parties in St. Croix U.S. Virgin Islands.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:25 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

made scheduled appearances in full makeup for 20th Century
Fox as Zira & Cornelius along side Kim Hunter & Roddy
McDowall. Crist created the costumes for Bill and herself
from the very bolts of material used for McDowall’s & Hunter’s
film costumes.

.

<.html

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:40 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

She didn't do stunts or play an ape in any of the movies or shows (in the magazine she says she played a background chimp but Bill says that's not true). In fact she was pretty upset because Arthur Jacobs told her she'd play an ape and she didn't get to. She admitted as much to Bill in a letter.

.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: mlccougar@...

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 11:03 AM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

*** And that's what I said, although it can be hard to interpret meaning just by reading sometimes.

What I was getting at is this: When she met Arthur, he was impressed enough to offer her a role in BATTLE... When time for filming came along, Arthur was sick so she wasn't just a shoe in...  The casting director didn't give her a speaking role as an ape (or a human for that matter) because she lacked the SAG card...

She was an ape, albeit a background extra (who did not speak). That's why I kept trying to differentiate between a background ape as being a non-speaking role. A non-speaking role equates to no need for a SAG card because you're technically not "acting", you're a prop/atmosphere piece.

In a message dated 2/24/2008 12:03:57 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@earthlink. net writes:

A background ape wouldn't speak. She could of played an ape without a SAG card. But let's face it, what she got was pretty damn good. I'd prefer a close-up of myself to being a background ape. There's no denying it's her.

----- Original Message -----
From: mlccougar@aol. com
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2


In a message dated 2/24/2008 2:26:21 AM Central Standard Time, veetus@earthlink. net writes:

She didn't do stunts or play an ape in any of the movies or shows (in the magazine she says she played a background chimp but Bill says that's not true). In fact she was pretty upset because Arthur Jacobs told her she'd play an ape and she didn't get to.

*** The reason she didn't get to play an ape was because the casting director wouldn't give her a speaking role because she wasn't in the Screen Actors Guild. Of course we know she was the blonde in the corral and she was an ape in the film, but as a background extra. ***







************ **
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living. aol.com/video/ how-to-please- your-picky- eater/rachel- campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID= aolcmp0030000000 2598)

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Neil Foster

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:39 PM

Subject: RE: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

-- Interesting little fact according to the Forbidden Zone website ( http://theforbidden -zone.com/ info/faq. .htmlStage% 20Show) - " Blake and Crist logged more time in costume and make-up than any other Apes actors, including Roddy McDowall."

 

Neil

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Saturday, February 23, 2008 7:25 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

made scheduled appearances in full makeup for 20th Century
Fox as Zira & Cornelius along side Kim Hunter & Roddy
McDowall. Crist created the costumes for Bill and herself
from the very bolts of material used for McDowall’s & Hunter’s
film costumes.

.

<.html

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Neil Foster

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:46 PM

Subject: [PotaDG] Paula Crist

Someone's telling porkies then! (http://www.imdb. com/name/ nm0188042/)

 

"Planet of the Apes" (1974) TV series (stunts) (unknown episodes) Battle for the Planet of the Apes (1973) (stunts) (uncredited)
... aka Colonization of the Planet of the Apes Conquest of the Planet of the Apes (1972) (stunts) (uncredited)

 

Neil

 

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Jeff K.
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:40 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2

She didn't do stunts or play an ape in any of the movies or shows (in the magazine she says she played a background chimp but Bill says that's not true). In fact she was pretty upset because Arthur Jacobs told her she'd play an ape and she didn't get to. She admitted as much to Bill in a letter.

.

<.html

Hi Folks!

Finally joined PotaDG. Thanks to Michael Whitty for sending me the invite.

Just wanted to quickly join in the discussion here. The blog entry
about Paula and Bill Blake is based on my friend Dan Morgan's first
hand experiences with Paula. At the moment, Dan is having trouble
seeing these messages when he signs into the group and as a
consequence is unable to reply to these posts but in the meantime
welcomes anyone to email him regarding any questions.

His email address is:
hub01@...

As for the IMDB listing on Paula, I realize that there might be
misinformation, as any member of IMBD can add info to the listings,
and as a member myself (I have only added info about my own film and
TV credits), I understand that there is a verification process each
time new info is added. Now, what I don't know is how reliable the
process is. Perhaps I'll add a disclaimer in my blog regarding that
IMBD link in that paragraph about Paula's credits in my blog.


Anyway, I appreciate the opportunity to share in this group. Thanks again.

Tom

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
>
> Yeah, that's the imdb for you. What I don't understand is why the
guy doing the blog says the same thing, if he knows her. She isn't
saying she did "Conquest" or the TV show is she? Does she say any of
that in "Simian Scrolls"?
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Neil Foster
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:46 PM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Paula Crist
>
>
>
> Someone's telling porkies then! (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0188042/)
>
> a.. "Planet of the Apes" (1974) TV series (stunts) (unknown episodes)
> a.. Battle for the Planet of the Apes (1973) (stunts) (uncredited)
> ... aka Colonization of the Planet of the Apes
> a.. Conquest of the Planet of the Apes (1972) (stunts) (uncredited)
>
> Neil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
Behalf Of Jeff K.
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:40 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2
>
>
> She didn't do stunts or play an ape in any of the movies or
shows (in the magazine she says she played a background chimp but Bill
says that's not true). In fact she was pretty upset because Arthur
Jacobs told her she'd play an ape and she didn't get to. She admitted
as much to Bill in a letter.
>
> .
>

Tom

A very big welcome to you!

Frankly, I wouldn't pull the IMDB information. Wait until we hear directly from Paula.

I believe Bill (via Jeff) but I would surely like to ask Paula before we go changing anything...

Michael
---- Tom Rubalcava <tom@...> wrote:

> Hi Folks!
>
> Finally joined PotaDG. Thanks to Michael Whitty for sending me the invite.
>
> Just wanted to quickly join in the discussion here. The blog entry
> about Paula and Bill Blake is based on my friend Dan Morgan's first
> hand experiences with Paula. At the moment, Dan is having trouble
> seeing these messages when he signs into the group and as a
> consequence is unable to reply to these posts but in the meantime
> welcomes anyone to email him regarding any questions.
>
> His email address is:
> hub01@...
>
> As for the IMDB listing on Paula, I realize that there might be
> misinformation, as any member of IMBD can add info to the listings,
> and as a member myself (I have only added info about my own film and
> TV credits), I understand that there is a verification process each
> time new info is added. Now, what I don't know is how reliable the
> process is. Perhaps I'll add a disclaimer in my blog regarding that
> IMBD link in that paragraph about Paula's credits in my blog.
>
>
> Anyway, I appreciate the opportunity to share in this group. Thanks again.
>
> Tom
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Jeff K." <veetus@...> wrote:
> >
> > Yeah, that's the imdb for you. What I don't understand is why the
> guy doing the blog says the same thing, if he knows her. She isn't
> saying she did "Conquest" or the TV show is she? Does she say any of
> that in "Simian Scrolls"?
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Neil Foster
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 1:46 PM
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Paula Crist
> >
> >
> >
> > Someone's telling porkies then! (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0188042/)
> >
> > a.. "Planet of the Apes" (1974) TV series (stunts) (unknown episodes)
> > a.. Battle for the Planet of the Apes (1973) (stunts) (uncredited)
> > ... aka Colonization of the Planet of the Apes
> > a.. Conquest of the Planet of the Apes (1972) (stunts) (uncredited)
> >
> > Neil
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
> Behalf Of Jeff K.
> > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 6:40 PM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [PotaDG] WonderCon 2
> >
> >
> > She didn't do stunts or play an ape in any of the movies or
> shows (in the magazine she says she played a background chimp but Bill
> says that's not true). In fact she was pretty upset because Arthur
> Jacobs told her she'd play an ape and she didn't get to. She admitted
> as much to Bill in a letter.
> >
> > .
> >
>
>

.html In a message dated 2/24/2008 4:11:55 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

She isn't saying she did "Conquest" or the TV show is she? Does she say any of that in "Simian Scrolls"?

*** No. In SCROLLS she mentions that a friend of her's sent her some pictures from CONQUEST and seeing those reignited her interest in APES (it got her thinking of how much she liked PLANET, etc.) and upon seeing the pictures, she wanted to see how it felt acting under the appliances. She never says she was in CONQUEST or the TV series.

However, she says that she considers her bit as an ape in BATTLE to be a stunt job because of running around in all the confusion with explosions going on around her and all of that. She doesn't say it was a technical/actual stunt job, just that she considers it a bit of one due to the actions mentioned. ****

**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)<.html

.html In a message dated 2/24/2008 3:25:28 PM Central Standard Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- But in his earlier reply Jeff clearly states that Bill Blake says she did not play a background ape.

*** I'll have to double check that, and even if he did say it, it's still a case of he said/she said and not neccessarily the truth. From what I understood the letter to say, I took it as she said to him that she was disappointed at not being able to play an ape. ("Play" as in speaking/acting under the appliances.) Acting under the appliances is what she said she wanted to do after having the love of APES reignited, and then being so close to having what she wanted suddenly pulled away for lack of a SAG card would be disappointing. Very much so. ***


**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)<.html

.html In a message dated 2/24/2008 3:40:26 PM Central Standard Time, ntfoster@... writes:

:    PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

-- Interesting little fact according to the Forbidden Zone website - " Blake and Crist logged more time in costume and make-up than any other Apes actors, including Roddy McDowall."


*** I find that could possible if what Paula said is true, that they did their stage show for around six years plus she did some appearances on her own after she split with Bill.

Of course, I'm guessing ALL of the time in make-up and costume included all of the "down time" waiting to go on, time spent having photos taken, the whole gig and all it involved. ***



**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) <.html

.html In a message dated 2/24/2008 4:06:26 PM Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 She didn't play an ape at all, speaking or otherwise. She only played the blonde human in the corral protecting the child. She told this to Bill in a letter when they were first meeting.

*** All I'm going on is what was said in SCROLLS... She mentions the part of the "scared blonde" and the close-up it involved. She then goes on to say this: "Yes, I was an ape in that movie as well but I was lost in the crowd during the battle. I couldn't even find myself in the confusion of running people, apes, and explosions. I considered it stunt work because the Stunt Coodinator put me in with some of the action to judge whether or not I would be a good candidate for becoming a Stuntwoman."

That's what is said, so you be the judge... ***

**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)<.html

Yes - running around in a background ape costume is not the same as playing an ape.

Syntax...

Michael

---- mlccougar@... wrote:

> In a message dated 2/24/2008 3:25:28 PM Central Standard Time,
> ntfoster@... writes:
>
>
> > -- But in his earlier reply Jeff clearly states that Bill Blake says she
> > did not play a background ape.
> >
> >
> *** I'll have to double check that, and even if he did say it, it's still a
> case of he said/she said and not neccessarily the truth. From what I understood
> the letter to say, I took it as she said to him that she was disappointed at
> not being able to play an ape. ("Play" as in speaking/acting under the
> appliances.) Acting under the appliances is what she said she wanted to do after
> having the love of APES reignited, and then being so close to having what she
> wanted suddenly pulled away for lack of a SAG card would be disappointing. Very
> much so. ***<BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL
> Living.<BR>
> ( http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)</HTML>

I wonder if there's any filmed footage of the show.

I assume the Simian Scrolls Fanzine has a Paula Crist interview in the latest issue? Does it show any photos or mention the content of the show?

Tom - you should really get in touch with John Roache or Dave Ballard. I'm sure you have things to add to their article from the sound of things. And/or Terry - is this something you might want for Ape Chronicles fanzine?

Michael

---- mlccougar@... wrote:

> In a message dated 2/24/2008 3:40:26 PM Central Standard Time,
> ntfoster@... writes:
>
>
> > : PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -- Interesting little fact according to the Forbidden Zone website - "Blake
> > and Crist logged more time in costume and make-up than any other Apes actors,
> > including Roddy McDowall."
> >
>
> *** I find that could possible if what Paula said is true, that they did
> their stage show for around six years plus she did some appearances on her own
> after she split with Bill.
>
> Of course, I'm guessing ALL of the time in make-up and costume included all
> of the "down time" waiting to go on, time spent having photos taken, the whole
> gig and all it involved. ***
>
> <BR><BR>**************<BR>Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.<BR>
> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)</HTML>

Well it certainly seems she has a memory of being in ape makeup (or background mask?).

We really need to follow this up and get some clarity.

Michael
---- mlccougar@... wrote:

> In a message dated 2/24/2008 4:06:26 PM Central Standard Time,
> veetus@... writes:
>
>
> > She didn't play an ape at all, speaking or otherwise. She only played the
> > blonde human in the corral protecting the child. She told this to Bill in a
> > letter when they were first meeting.
> >
> >
> *** All I'm going on is what was said in SCROLLS... She mentions the part of
> the "scared blonde" and the close-up it involved. She then goes on to say
> this: "Yes, I was an ape in that movie as well but I was lost in the crowd during
> the battle. I couldn't even find myself in the confusion of running people,
> apes, and explosions. I considered it stunt work because the Stunt Coodinator
> put me in with some of the action to judge whether or not I would be a good
> candidate for becoming a Stuntwoman."
>
> That's what is said, so you be the judge... ***<BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Ideas to please
> picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.<BR>
> ( http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
> 98)</HTML>

.html <.html

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <sallywhitty@...> wrote:
>
> I wonder if there's any filmed footage of the show.
>
> I assume the Simian Scrolls Fanzine has a Paula Crist interview in the latest issue? Does it show any photos or mention the content of the show?
>

Yeah the latest issue, #14 , has an interview with her.

There are some photos of the shows and she does mention the content of them.

She says that they answered quesions and did scenes from the films , mostly Planet. (I won't mention any more , don't want to spoil it for those of you who haven't had chance to see the issue yet.)

Here's a scan of one of the pages with some interesting photos from Paula's collection, once again I've made this a link, so it doesn't spoil it for people waiting for the issue

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/PCScrolls.jpg

Best,Graham.

.html <.html

Attachments :

On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 4:20 AM, Michael & Sally Whitty < sallywhitty@...> wrote:

Thanks Graham.

 

---

From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hill
Sent: Monday, 25 February 2008 9:22 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: WonderCon 2

 

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <sallywhitty@...> wrote:
>
> I wonder if there's any filmed footage of the show.
>
> I assume the Simian Scrolls Fanzine has a Paula Crist interview in the latest issue? Does it show any photos or mention the content of the show?
>

Yeah the latest issue, #14 , has an interview with her.

There are some photos of the shows and she does mention the content of them.

She says that they answered quesions and did scenes from the films , mostly Planet. (I won't mention any more , don't want to spoil it for those of you who haven't had chance to see the issue yet.)

Here's a scan of one of the pages with some interesting photos from Paula's collection, once again I've made this a link, so it doesn't spoil it for people waiting for the issue

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/PCScrolls.jpg

Best,Graham.

Thanks, Michael. Yeah, I won't touch my blog or change anything there. Actually if we can get Dan Morgan in the discussion, he can sort out some details as well.

Michael, could you help Dan with logging properly to see the newest messages. He was only able to see only up to #45000s. We were on the the phone and I tried to guide him through to the most recent posts, but I was unable to help. Perhaps you could email him. (hub01@...)

Thanks,
Tom

If they fell out, it seems unlikely we'll get a definitive story. The
truth probably lies somewhere in between, and they might have
different opinions of what counts as background work or stunt work.
Before we get too involved in taking sides it's worth remembering
that Paula and Bill, Dan and Tom are all a little bit of Ape history
through their own hard work and enterprise.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <sallywhitty@...> wrote:
>
> Well it certainly seems she has a memory of being in ape makeup (or
background mask?).
>
> We really need to follow this up and get some clarity.
>
> Michael
> ---- mlccougar@... wrote:
> > In a message dated 2/24/2008 4:06:26 PM Central Standard Time,
> > veetus@... writes:
> >
> >
> > > She didn't play an ape at all, speaking or otherwise. She
only played the
> > > blonde human in the corral protecting the child. She told this
to Bill in a
> > > letter when they were first meeting.
> > >
> > >
> > *** All I'm going on is what was said in SCROLLS... She mentions
the part of
> > the "scared blonde" and the close-up it involved. She then goes
on to say
> > this: "Yes, I was an ape in that movie as well but I was lost in
the crowd during
> > the battle. I couldn't even find myself in the confusion of
running people,
> > apes, and explosions. I considered it stunt work because the
Stunt Coodinator
> > put me in with some of the action to judge whether or not I would
be a good
> > candidate for becoming a Stuntwoman."
> >
> > That's what is said, so you be the judge...
***<BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Ideas to please
> > picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.<BR>
> > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-
eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
> > 98)</HTML>
>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nlmoxham
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:27 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: WonderCon 2

If they fell out, it seems unlikely we'll get a definitive story. The
truth probably lies somewhere in between, and they might have
different opinions of what counts as background work or stunt work.
Before we get too involved in taking sides it's worth remembering
that Paula and Bill, Dan and Tom are all a little bit of Ape history
through their own hard work and enterprise.

.

<.html

.html <.html

Or at least all sides of the story.

Sometimes things can seem to contradict, but they don't.

An example of this is the TV Show episode that aired in some places and not in others. The truth is everywhere, but the facts need context for interpretation.

Michael

---- Neil Foster <ntfoster@...> wrote:

> -- I don't think it's about taking sides. As with most things POTA it
> seems there are always conflicting stories about what or how something
> happened and all we want is to find out the true story if possible.
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
> Of nlmoxham
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:27 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Re: WonderCon 2
>
>
>
> If they fell out, it seems unlikely we'll get a definitive story. The
> truth probably lies somewhere in between, and they might have
> different opinions of what counts as background work or stunt work.
> Before we get too involved in taking sides it's worth remembering
> that Paula and Bill, Dan and Tom are all a little bit of Ape history
> through their own hard work and enterprise.
>
>
> .
>
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=8605785/grpspId=1705021437/m
> sgId=47671/stime=1203982045/nc1=5008816/nc2=3858797/nc3=3848607>
>
>

.html

In a message dated 2/24/2008 2:20:10 A.M. Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

No, Bill and Paula had a bad falling out.

 

Now I'll just bet that that's an interesting story.

<.html

T!

I thought you had left with Rory!

How's things?

Michael
---- TZer0@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 2/24/2008 2:20:10 A.M. Central Standard Time,
> veetus@... writes:
>
> No, Bill and Paula had a bad falling out.
>
>
>
> Now I'll just bet that that's an interesting story.
>
>
>
> **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

.html

In a message dated 2/24/2008 11:26:46 P.M. Central Standard Time, veetus@... writes:

 Whatyaknow, when presenting the Makeup Oscar tonight, Katherine Heigl rattled on about previous winners and concluded with one that had "apes talking in English".

 

They also showed the chimp that presented Chambers with his Oscar.

 

 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 2/25/2008 9:50:27 P.M. Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

I thought you had left with Rory!

 

Nope.  Working on a new album.

Unfortunately looks like I'll have to switch from PC to Mac to do it.

Consequently email has fallen by the wayside.  I'll try to keep up.

 

<.html

OK - stay in touch!
---- TZer0@... wrote:

>
> In a message dated 2/25/2008 9:50:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> sallywhitty@... writes:
>
> I thought you had left with Rory!
>
>
>
>
> Nope. Working on a new album.
> Unfortunately looks like I'll have to switch from PC to Mac to do it.
> Consequently email has fallen by the wayside. I'll try to keep up.
>
>
>
>
> **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
> 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

Agreed, my point was just that: we should try to get Bill & Paula's
own words, first-hand if possible before deciding whether only one is
telling the truth.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <sallywhitty@...> wrote:
>
> Or at least all sides of the story.
>
> Sometimes things can seem to contradict, but they don't.
>
> An example of this is the TV Show episode that aired in some places
and not in others. The truth is everywhere, but the facts need
context for interpretation.
>
> Michael
>
> ---- Neil Foster <ntfoster@...> wrote:
> > -- I don't think it's about taking sides. As with most things
POTA it
> > seems there are always conflicting stories about what or how
something
> > happened and all we want is to find out the true story if
possible.
> >
> > Neil
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On
Behalf
> > Of nlmoxham
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:27 AM
> > To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [PotaDG] Re: WonderCon 2
> >
> >
> >
> > If they fell out, it seems unlikely we'll get a definitive story.
The
> > truth probably lies somewhere in between, and they might have
> > different opinions of what counts as background work or stunt
work.
> > Before we get too involved in taking sides it's worth remembering
> > that Paula and Bill, Dan and Tom are all a little bit of Ape
history
> > through their own hard work and enterprise.
> >
> >
> > .
> >
> > <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?
s=97359714/grpId=8605785/grpspId=1705021437/m
> > sgId=47671/stime=1203982045/nc1=5008816/nc2=3858797/nc3=3848607>
> >
> >
>

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of nlmoxham
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:23 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: WonderCon 2

Agreed, my point was just that: we should try to get Bill & Paula's
own words, first-hand if possible before deciding whether only one is
telling the truth.

.

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 6:43 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: WonderCon 2

Oh yeah!  That was MY idea!

.

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In a message dated 2/26/2008 7:54:52 P.M. Central Standard Time, ntfoster@... writes:

-- No I'm sure it was mine...

 

Neil

 

Me me me

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---

Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. <.html

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Welcome Dan. How long did you work as Cornelius? Where did you
preform at? By 1982 I figured I was one of the only kids still
obsessed with Planet of the Apes & I never did get to see a live show
up in Boston where we lived.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, D Morgan <hubcomic@...> wrote:
>
> My name is Dan Morgan and I knew Paula and performed with her as
Cornelius
> in 1982. I have not seen her since the mid to late 90's. She is one
of the nicest humans
> I have ever known and worked with. I have been a pota fan since
1968, I was all of five.
>
> If any of you have questions regarding my experience with Paula, I
will be happy
> to answer them.
>
> Dan Morgan
>
>
>
>
>

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael & Sally Whitty
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:56 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Paula Crist

Can you give an overview of the content of the performances (eg scenes from POTA movies?).

.

<.html

Thanks, Neil for including me in the "Ape history" comment. My brush
with Paula was brief during the first meeting at the CreationCon in
'82 when we entered the costume contest and she was one of the judges.
I may have seen her twice after that, though again, briefly. Dan spent
more time with her, though I do cherish the memories.

-Tom

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "nlmoxham" <neilmoxham@...> wrote:
>
> If they fell out, it seems unlikely we'll get a definitive story. The
> truth probably lies somewhere in between, and they might have
> different opinions of what counts as background work or stunt work.
> Before we get too involved in taking sides it's worth remembering
> that Paula and Bill, Dan and Tom are all a little bit of Ape history
> through their own hard work and enterprise.
>
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, <sallywhitty@> wrote:
> >
> > Well it certainly seems she has a memory of being in ape makeup (or
> background mask?).
> >
> > We really need to follow this up and get some clarity.
> >
> > Michael
> > ---- mlccougar@ wrote:
> > > In a message dated 2/24/2008 4:06:26 PM Central Standard Time,
> > > veetus@ writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > She didn't play an ape at all, speaking or otherwise. She
> only played the
> > > > blonde human in the corral protecting the child. She told this
> to Bill in a
> > > > letter when they were first meeting.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > *** All I'm going on is what was said in SCROLLS... She mentions
> the part of
> > > the "scared blonde" and the close-up it involved. She then goes
> on to say
> > > this: "Yes, I was an ape in that movie as well but I was lost in
> the crowd during
> > > the battle. I couldn't even find myself in the confusion of
> running people,
> > > apes, and explosions. I considered it stunt work because the
> Stunt Coodinator
> > > put me in with some of the action to judge whether or not I would
> be a good
> > > candidate for becoming a Stuntwoman."
> > >
> > > That's what is said, so you be the judge...
> ***<BR><BR><BR>**************<BR>Ideas to please
> > > picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.<BR>
> > > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-
> eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
> > > 98)</HTML>
> >
>

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Rubalcava <tom@...>
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 9:34 pm
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: WonderCon 2

.html In a message dated 2/27/2008 9:31:08 PM Central Standard Time, PofTAfan@... writes:

The only thing that I have from that Auto Show are the two photos and the autographs from Paula and Bill.

*** Autographed as "Zira" and "Cornelius" I'm guessing?  (I'd assume they didn't use their real names when signing so as not to throw off the illusion...) ***


**************
Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)<.html

Hi Michael,
I performed twice with Paula in St. Croix for Martin Marrietta.
Martin Marrietta was having a huge Christmas party for there Company.
We were not the only performers they hired but were the star power
for the party as they were currently showing Planet of the Apes films
on the island. We had two performances on two seperate days plus a
party to attend to, ie. the entertainment for the execs. We had to
wear the makeup overnight for the show the next day. What an
experience that was ! I got a call early morning from Paula saying "
the van is downstairs ". I went to the bathroom to clean up and looked
in the mirror and startled myself! I forgot I was in the makeup. This
simian was pretty tired. There was some time in between show and party
so I took a dip in the pool outside the hotel. It was pretty funny to
see Cornelius from the neck up and white boy with swim trunks from the
waist down. Paula and I laughed alot about that. Thank you so much for
allowing me to share these incredible memories with you all.

More to come soon

Dan Morgan
ps. does anyone have contact with Paula these day's?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael & Sally Whitty"
<sallywhitty@...> wrote:

>
> Hi Dan and welcome to the group!
>
>
>
> I have millions of questions but I need to allow the others to ask some
> too..SO..
>
>
>
> Can you give an overview of the content of the performances (eg

scenes from

> POTA movies?).
>
>
>
> Cheers
>
>
>
> Michael (in Australia)
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf Of D

> Morgan
> Sent: Wednesday, 27 February 2008 11:59 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [PotaDG] Paula Crist
>
>
>
> My name is Dan Morgan and I knew Paula and performed with her as

Cornelius

> in 1982. I have not seen her since the mid to late 90's. She is one

of the

> nicest humans
> I have ever known and worked with. I have been a pota fan since

1968, I was

> all of five.
>
> If any of you have questions regarding my experience with Paula, I

will be

> happy
> to answer them.
>
> Dan Morgan
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo
> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=51438/*http:/www.yahoo.com/r/hs> your

homepage.

>

Hi Neil,
By 1982 I had been my friend Tom,s personal test model for our
creations, mostly Cornelius. We were obsessed with getting the
makeup right. It was not a big deal to be in the makeup overnight
except for the hair under the chin. It itches something fierce!
We recreated the makeup this last Saturday and it took about five
hours. It's been a while ! I have to say I still love being
Cornelius.

Dan

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Neil Foster" <ntfoster@...> wrote:
>
> -- Welcome to the group Dan, like Michael I would be very interested in
> finding out about the content of the shows plus how was it being under
> the makeup for an extended period of time? Any problems like some of the
> original actors seemed to have seeing themselves as an ape?
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf
> Of Michael & Sally Whitty
> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:56 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Paula Crist
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Can you give an overview of the content of the performances (eg scenes
> from POTA movies?).
>
> .
>
> <http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359714/grpId=8605785/grpspId=1705021437/m
> sgId=47687/stime=1204106152/nc1=5008815/nc2=3848614/nc3=3858793>
>

.html

In a message dated 2/28/2008 12:42:02 A.M. Central Standard Time, hubcomic@... writes:

Hi Michael,
I performed twice with Paula in St. Croix for Martin Marrietta.

 

It would be cool if there was video for the next rarities.

 

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: mlccougar@...
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 12:04 am
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: WonderCon 2

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "hubcomic" <hubcomic@...> wrote:

>We were not the only performers they hired but were the star power
> for the party as they were currently showing Planet of the Apes films
> on the island.

Welcome Dan,

That might explain the interest in Planet of the Apes at the time, but
do you recall how Paula came to be invited to perform? Presumably this
was something she hadn't done for a few years at that stage, or did she
continue to advertise her Zira routine?

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