Not that I know of. My scanner/printer is down, so I can't upload
anything at the moment, otherwise I'd do so here and now.

I'm surprised you hadn't seen it. With all the other source material
you had access to for your TIMELINE book, it amazes me that you
didn't have APESFAN ## 1 and 2.

Patrick

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*** Yes, I did finally see it, and I'm not overly thrilled about it, not to the point of thinking "Wow, this is the CONQUEST I've been waiting for"... Yeah there's new footage which IS cool to see, and there is more of the original soundtrack included which is also a definite plus... That said, unless you really keep an open eye out, a lot of the restored footage could pass you by because it occurs during scenes that are already full of gunfire and action. It's not like they're additional "scenes" like BATTLE had: The bulk of the new CONQUEST footage is a lot of the same repetitious stuff, just with more blood added to the mix... The redeeming part of it: The end sequence! ***

 

 

 

In a message dated 12/18/08 8:26:55 AM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

  Seen CONQUEST UNRATED yet?

 

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*** All of that is a plus in the "uncut" version... The fact that there is no stupid "No" line from Lisa (like she really knows what the hell is going on), and Caesar stays the course and doesn't cop-out... Again, that's why the end of that version is better It's the ending I always wanted, as originally intended... Screw the idea that it might not jibe with some BATTLE dialog, BATTLE is pretty much throw-away anyhow (though yes, I do like BATTLE for what it is, but I don't like it because of what it should have been.)

 

There's no "No" line from Lisa, Caesar stays a dictator, and Breck gets his comeuppance, all this adds up to a much better ending! ***

 

 

In a message dated 12/18/08 10:12:47 AM Central Standard Time, patrickmichaeltilton@... writes:

Caesar, who had been raised by a pacifist human (Armando)
and who had been saved by a sympathetic human (MacDonald) goes way
too damned far at the end of the film ["...and that day is upon you
NOW!!!"]. Yet MacDonald doesn't have the "pull" to get Caesar to back
off from an almost Hitlerian apex.

 

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Thanks, Patrick--I've actually obtained copies since your last post.


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@...> wrote:

> Not that I know of. My scanner/printer is down, so I can't upload
> anything at the moment, otherwise I'd do so here and now.
> I'm surprised you hadn't seen it. With all the other source material
> you had access to for your TIMELINE book, it amazes me that you
> didn't have APESFAN ## 1 and 2.
>
> Patrick
>

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "rassmguy" <handleyr@...> wrote:

>
> Thanks, Patrick! I am positive that we WILL disagree. :)
>
> But, that said, I would love to hear your feedback on it when you
> receive it.

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Mike, you know that I tend to pile on the details the way those ex-slave Apes pile dead humans in the Unrated Cut of CONQUEST, doncha?   Patrick of the Apes --- On Thu, 12/18/08, Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@...> wrote: From: Michael & Sally Whitty <sallywhitty@...> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Re: Timeline of the Planet of the Apes To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, December 18, 2008, 2:48 PM God I'm never going to ask you to be critical of anything I do Patrick!  J   Just jokes mate, very thorough.   From: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com [PotaDG@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of patrickmichaeltilto n Sent: Friday, 19 December 2008 6:27 AM To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Timeline of the Planet of the Apes   --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups. com , "rassmguy" <handleyr@.. .> wrote: > > Thanks, Patrick! I am positive that we WILL disagree. :) > > But, that said, I would love to hear your feedback on it when you > receive it. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _ *** I got my copy in yesterday, and I've flipped through it somewhat as of this moment. I'll need to do a more in-depth examination of it in order to more effectively critique it. But here's some initial feedback, and remember... you asked for it! And, please, don't think I'm being mean, because your book is a most welcome addition to my library. Your book is more welcome in MY library than Eric Greene's book is to the libraries of some of the POTA fans who regularly chat here, I suspect! I don't mind that you included all the POTA comics, the unfilmed scripts, etc etc. But it might have been better -- from an organizational standpoint -- to have done a 1st section where the events of the 5-film series is put in order. Then do a 2nd section dealing with the TV series. Then a 3rd section for the cartoon. Then a 4th section for the MARVEL stories (maybe even 3 or 4, if you treat TERROR, Future History Chronicles, KINGDOM on an ISLAND , and EVOLUTION'S NIGHTMARE as separate POTA entities). Then a 5th section for the ADVENTURE comics, etc etc. And a whole separate section for the Burton film. By putting ALL these disparate POTA projects in the same bin, it becomes -- at times -- uh, I don't know how to say this. Off-putting? It's like a smorgasbord of info all mixed together... some of the foods being to my liking and some being unpalatable. You know how there's an "official" STAR TREK chronology, which includes as 'canon' only the 5 series (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT) and the movies, but NOT the Animated Series or the various comics and novels and fanfics etc etc? Imagine if somebody -- I'm sure he's out there SOMEwhere in Internetland -- were to include ALL the info that has ever been produced in STAR TREK fiction... not only the filmed "official" products, but EVERYTHING. All in some kind of chronological order. There would be more adventures than there were days in the original 5-year-mission! It would be TOO MUCH. And not all of it really "belonging" to one sole timeline/chronology . I think your book would've been better as TIMELINES -- plural -- OF THE PLANET OF THE APES. Give each group its own chronology: the Films, the TV show, the Cartoon, the MARVEL stuff, etc etc. Not all- together, but separately. Another thing. Every so often I noticed you refer to some character and preferring the DVD subtitle spelling of a name rather than the spelling presented in the script, or (perhaps) in the Credits of the show. For instance, "Zuma" instead of "Zooma"; "Numay" instead of "Numai". As far as I'm concerned, if a name is spelled a certain way in the Credits, THAT is canon. If the name isn't spelled in the credits but IS spelled a certain way in a source script, then THAT is canon. Only if a name appears and is neither listed in the credits nor in a script, THEN -- and only conditionally -- should the DVD subtitling matter. I'll give an example. In CONQUEST there's the scene where Caesar yells "Lousy human bastard" because a chimp is being mistreated. The name of that mistreated chimp is ALDO. In the novelization, the mistreated ape is NOT a chimp, but a gorilla... but the FILM has it as a chimp, so THAT is canon. And the NAME of that chimp is ALDO. But at least one DVD subtitler thought he (or she) heard the name spoken as "OTTO"... and that's what got put on the subtitles. ["No, Otto, no!" etc] I think it makes a difference what the name of that character is, and what should be canon -- in my opinion -- is what is listed in the Credits (1st) or a source Script (2nd). Your preference for the spelling provided in the subtitles is, I think, faulty. I do like how you point out where each rival spelling comes from, though, so kudos to you on that! Incidentally, on page 49 you refer to the scene above with the line: "A pair of handlers escorts an ape named Aldo to the Civic Center ." A nitpicker regarding the details (like me) might wonder why you didn't specify that the ape was a Chimpanzee, rather than a gorilla. Since you ARE a stickler for detail, and you often point out differing details from script-to-screen- to-novelization (etc), I wonder why you glossed this one over. The DVD subtitler calls the ape "Otto": why didn't you prefer that spelling to "Aldo" in this case, when you often do so for other names, opting for the DVD subtitle version? Hmm... what else? Landon. On page 4, you state that Landon is born "c. LATE 1930s TO EARLY 1940s" and you "NOTE: Landon... [his] age is unspecified" etc. If you had seen my chronology article in APESFAN #2, you might have changed this entry. Remember how Taylor sees the EARTH-TIME date of 11-25-3978 just before the ship sinks? After the trio gets that raft to its beach-site, Taylor then goes on to tell Landon, "... you look pretty chipper for a man who's TWO THOUSAND THIRTY-ONE YEARS OLD. I read the clocks -- they bear out Hasslein's Hypothesis." Taylor "read the clocks" -- even though we only see ONE of the two clocks at that moment, the EARTH-TIME clock, reading 11-25-3978. If you subtract 2,031 years from that date you get the year 1947. It seems to me that Taylor must've known Landon's birth year (1947) and he merely subtracted 1,947 from 3,978 to get 2,031 years as his "age" since his birth. In SHIP-TIME terms, Landon is 25 years (or so) plus 18 months old -- what the original script called "SELF-TIME". Born in 1947, he would've been 25 years old in 1972, when their ship launched from Cape Kennedy . Speaking of that, you have their launch date being in "FEBRUARY 1972" based on the Marvel chronology. You point out the 40th Anniversary timeline "indicates January" -- rightly so. Well, watch the first scene of PLANET again, and note the SHIP-TIME clock. What is the date on it? It's 7-14-1972. Taylor says, "In less than an hour I'll finish our SIXTH MONTH out of Cape Kennedy ." We don't know the TIME of day, but we do know the DAY: the 14th of July, 1972. If that moment which is "less than an hour" away will be near the very end of July 14th (i.e. before Midnight) or at the very beginning of July 15th (i.e. after Midnight), we don't know. From the evidence at hand, the completion of their 6th month of SHIP-TIME could be either on July 14th or, just possibly, shortly after Midnight when July 15th of 1972 begins. But all you have to do is subtract 6 months from 7-14-1972 (or, possibly, 7-15-1972 just after Midnight) and you can pinpoint the Cape Kennedy launch-date as being either 1-14-1972 or 1-15-1972. That is MID-JANUARY, and not FEBRUARY. You seem to have opted for the Marvel chronology in this instance, glossing over the on-screen details. Why? I don't claim that the landing in PLANET takes place on 11-25-3978, though I do acknowledge that the EARTH-TIME clock reads 11-25-3978 just before the ship sinks. My scenario offers an explanation as to how that date would be displayed on the clock in this particular ship even though the true date -- taking into account the information provided in BENEATH and ESCAPE -- is in the year 3955. But as to Landon's age, the 3978-versus- 3955 dating is moot. The point is that Taylor -- having seen the EARTH-TIME clock reading 11-25-3978 -- seems to have accepted that date as a "fact" when he calculates Landon's time-bent age: "2 thousand 31 years old." Doesn't that number [2,031] seem awfully SPECIFIC to you? How else would Taylor have come up with it? If he were giving Landon a ballpark number for his age, why not just say he's TWO THOUSAND years old? He goes out of his way to specify TWO THOUSAND THIRTY-ONE years old and, I submit, he did this by subtracting Landon's birthyear from the year given on the EARTH-TIME clock. 3978 minus 1947 equals 2,031 years. That's why he says what he says. Doesn't that make sense? One last item: the dating of BATTLE . On page 77 you have a long paragraph [the NOTE] in which you point out the various and varying dates that other chronologies give. MARVEL & Dayton Ward say 2001. The 35th Anniv. Ed. says 2018. The Blu-Ray set says June 2004. The novelization says 2000. You opt for the year 2020 based on the story given in MARVEL #22, adding the "27 years" to the date of that original between-the- movies story (1993). This is an instance where your "timeline" is ill-served by lumping all the POTA stuff into one long narrative, rather than a series of competing "timelines" (i.e. the Films, the TV show, the Cartoon, the Marvel stuff, etc etc). As far as I'm concerned, the Marvel story you rely on -- as entertaining as it may be -- isn't and cannot be part of the canon. In it, the Apes acquire their Arms (and, hence, their need for an Armory) when Aldo brings back a wagon-load of weapons from the bombed-out city. Balderdash! And I say that as a big fan of Moench's original POTA stories. Caesar and his people (i.e. the Apes) acquired their Arms during the events of CONQUEST!!! The final scene, when Caesar exclaims "Tonight we have seen the birth of the planet of the apes!", shows his army of revolting slaves wielding all the weapons that they had clandestinely gathered in that "abandoned warehouse" site AND the weapons they had taken from the Security forces they had fought against and triumphed over. Did Caesar and his people flee Breck's city WITHOUT TAKING WITH THEM ANY OF THOSE PISTOLS, RIFLES, MACHINE GUNS??? Only an idiot would conclude any such thing. Sorry to say, Moench had a brain-fart when he was plotting out that in-betweener story. As far as I'm concerned, Caesar led his people out of Breck's city and -- within a year, probably only a few months at most -- he established a site for their edenic "Ape City"... taking with them all the weapons they could possibly carry, just in case they needed them, if any uppity humans were to try to invade their territory and re-enslave them. Therefore, their Armory would've been established sometime in the year 1991. There's no indication that anybody other than Mandemus had been the Keeper of Caesar's Conscience before Mandemus... so Mandemus began to live in that Armory in 1991. Add 27 years to that, and you find out why it is that the 35th Anniv. Ed. gives 2018 as the date of BATTLE . They probably got it either from reading the on-screen evidence like I did, or they got it from perusing one of my postings in Yahooland, since I pointed out that chronological information way back when I first started chiming in at the old Yahoo POTA group. Come to think of it, I first mentioned it in my APESFAN chronology article. As long as we're haggling about the dating of BATTLE , we should also go over the dating of CONQUEST. Obviously, it takes place in 1991. But WHEN in 1991? You have Armando bringing Caesar to Breck's city in JULY. You mention other chronologies listing "April 1991"... "November 1991"... etc. You mention that the "FUTURE NEWS" mock newspaper lists "May 22, 1992" and rightly state that it doesn't jibe with other evidence. Well, in the actual film is there any specific evidence that might help to narrow down WHEN in 1991 the story takes place? On the day (night) when Caesar sneaks into the orangutan cage headed for APE MANAGEMENT, we hear an employee there refer to two specific shipments which are arriving then-and-there: Shipment FIVE-OH-SEVEN I-for-Indonesia ex Borneo Shipment FIVE-OH-NINE A-for-Africa ex French Camaroons What do "Five-Oh-Seven" and "Five-Oh-Nine" probably stand for? How about May 7th and May 9th? In other words, a SHIP travelled to Borneo and picked up a load of orangutans on MAY 7, 1991. Either THAT ship or some OTHER ship travelled to French Camaroons and picked up a load of African apes (either chimps or gorillas) on MAY 9, 1991. And either that SINGLE ship or perhaps TWO ships arrived at Breck's port city some time later. Probably later on "in the very merry month of May" (as the song goes). When Kolp calls APE MANAGEMENT to find out who purchased the chimpanzee that had been processed as part of Shipment 5-07 I-for- Indonesia ex Borneo, the afro-wearin' dude at APE MANAGEMENT yells for somebody to "Get me the Indonesia file from LAST MONTH." In other words, that phone call happened in JUNE of 1991. Your CONQUEST chronology spans the time from JULY to NOVEMBER of 1991. The line about "the Indonesia file from last month" proves that the events of CONQUEST span a time that cannot be more than a single month. The shipment from Indonesia left Indonesia on May 7th ["FIVE- OH-SEVEN"] and arrived at Breck's city later that month. Sometime during the following month of June, Kolp called APE MANAGEMENT to find out who bought "Lot Eight" at the Auction. Less than a day later, Caesar and his slave army had defeated Breck's security forces and had metaphorically midwifed "the birth of the planet of the apes!" Unless you can come up with a more plausible explanation for the "FIVE-OH-SEVEN" and "FIVE-OH-NINE" bits of dialogue -- which I think must be calendrical dates: May 7th and 9th -- and that dude's reference to the "Indonesia file from last month"... well, I can't see how your chronology fits those on-screen facts. Again, regardless of what the Marvel chronologists may have thought... or the Blu-Ray guys... or any-whozis.. . what matters for canonicity (IMHO) is what is on-screen. If a script conflicts with info that wound up on-screen, the script should defer to the on- screen detail. For example, the script has the Plague happen in 1982, which Armando says was "NINE years ago"... but the on-screen scene has the date "1983" on the Pet Memorial, and Armando is heard to say that it happened "EIGHT years ago". What's canon? 1982 or 1983? The novelization and MARVEL opt for 1982, based on the script. But the on- screen info is "1983". 1983 is canon, as far as I'm concerned, because it is an on-screen detail. ALL such on-screen details trump any other source. It's fine to point out what those other sources may have in THEIR timelines... but that's why it might've been better to do a series of separate timeline chapters, not by "era" but by "source". Notwithstanding, though, I still dig your book, Rich, and I'm glad to have it in my collection. Much of the info in it is useful to me, though much of it -- being from non-canon comics and unfilmed scripts (etc etc) -- is stuff I'll just be glossing over. For the sake of my own POTA epic-in-progress, I'm relying strictly on the FILMED details (not including the Burton film). Perhaps, in a few years, you'll be able to revise your tome, adding in stuff I (and others?) will have pointed out to you, such as Landon's birthyear being 1947 and all that. One last item (I swear!)... The birth of Salome. You have it happening in April of 1973. I've posted here, somewhat recently, that the naming of Heloise's daughter as "Salome" makes better sense if we take into account the fact that Armando is a Catholic. The Catholic liturgical calendar has feast-days for each day of the year associated with at least one -- in most cases, several -- Catholic saints. February 14th is St. Valentine's Day. December 25th is the Feast of St. Nicholas. And OCTOBER 22nd is the feast-day of St. Salome. The name "Salome" is best known as the name of the slutty woman whose Dance of the Seven Veils resulted in the death of John the Baptist. THAT Salome is the most famous, well-known Salome. Would Armando name Heloise's daughter after such a person? I don't think so. There is another person -- less famous -- who had the name Salome, and that person was canonized as a Saint, with the feast day being October 22nd. Armando tells Breck that his missing chimp was "legally certified to have been born a month -- A MONTH! -- before the talking apes arrived on Earth!" Armando had informed the cops who searched his circus that the baby's birth was "registered SIXTEEN DAYS AGO." Armando tells Cornelius and Zira that his circus was to move to its WINTER quarters in Florida "in just ONE MONTH." What does this all mean? It means that ESCAPE takes place in late- NOVEMBER of 1973, halfway between the birth of Salome "a month" before (on October 22nd, 1973) and the departure of Armando's Sensational Circus for its Winter Quarters in Florida -- the winter season beginning c. December 21st/22nd. Your chronology has ESCAPE happening in April-to-May of 1973, and that just can't jibe with the on-screen facts. Armando named Heloise's daughter NOT after the harlot who had John the Baptist murdered, but after the SAINT whose feast day was the date of the birth of "the first chimpanzee ever to be born in a circus": October 22nd. The talking apes arrived on Earth "a month" later, and Zira gave birth to Caesar "a month" before his circus left for its WINTER quarters. That places ESCAPE in LATE NOVEMBER. I'll leave it at that for now, Rich. They say that PAYback is a bitch... Now YOU'LL probably think that FEEDback is a son-of-a-bitch! But, please, accept my critiques with goodwill. I'm not trying to beat up on ya. I just think I have some pretty solid info that should be taken into account, rival sources be damned. The on-screen info trumps 'em all. Patrick

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It's been fun, kids, but my ass is sore and it's time to skedaddle
home. My computer's been acting up (slowin' down, that is), so I've
been using a university computer cluster to slam through my backed-up
emails. Ah, high-speed internet! Some day, I shall upgrade my home pc
from dial-up. Until then, I'll be stoppin' by once a week or so, I
hope. I've never been an every-day-internetter. Lately, I've been
watching POTA Blu-Rays and catching up on reading Boulle. I've recently
reread "THE PHOTOGRAPHER", "THE VIRTUES OF HELL" and a collection of
short stories "BECAUSE IT IS ABSURD". I'm reading his memoir "MY OWN
RIVER KWAI" right now, having finally found a copy of it at a military
book store in Minneapolis. Good stuff.

Keep on Ape-in' you monkeys! I wish you all a Merry Saturnalia (those
of you who watch "THE BIG BANG THEORY" will get the joke) -- it's a
Saturnalia miracle! If you like that show, you'll probably also
like "TWO AND A HALF MEN" by the same writer/producer. "I want the
spit!" I'd explain THAT joke, but for now I'd like to be cryptic... ;)

See ya next week, folks,

Patrick

Attachments :

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sallywhitty@...
Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2008 3:58 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] 2009 PotA calendar

Looks great.

Where did that sillhouetted gorilla on horseback originate?

.

<.html

Thanks for the feedback, Patrick. When I get a chance to go through
it all, I'll post my responses. :)

...well Neil's done another holiday picture for the home page, so as I've not had time to do a X-mas card this year, have a couple of "Virtual" comics on me

(The conditions not great though )

 

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/FakeCover2.jpg

 

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/FakeCover2.jpg

Happy Christmas, Graham.

...I really should stop drinking late at night...

Here's the second one ...

 

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/cover3c.jpg

Graham.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Graham Hill" <shop@...> wrote:
>
>
> ...well Neil's done another holiday picture for the home page, so as
> I've not had time to do a X-mas card this year, have a couple of
> "Virtual" comics on me
>
> (The conditions not great though [:)] )
>
>
>
> http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/FakeCover2.jpg
> <http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/FakeCover2.jpg>
>
>
>
> http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/FakeCover2.jpg
> <http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w252/hill19652000/FakeCover2.jpg>
>
> Happy Christmas, Graham.
>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Members' Art gallery/Fake Cover #2 small.jpg
Uploaded by : hill19652000 <shop@...>
Description : Fake comic cover

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Members%27%20Art%20gallery/Fake%20Cover%20%232%20small.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmliles

Regards,

hill19652000 <shop@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the PotaDG
group.

File : /Members' Art gallery/Fake cover #1 small.jpg
Uploaded by : hill19652000 <shop@...>
Description :

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PotaDG/files/Members%27%20Art%20gallery/Fake%20cover%20%231%20small.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmliles

Regards,

hill19652000 <shop@...>

.html

-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Graham Hill
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 8:50 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [PotaDG] Re: Holiday greetings

...I really should stop drinking late at night...

.

<.html

>Posted by: "patrickmichaeltilton" patrickmichaeltilton@...
>patrickmichaeltilton
>*** I got my copy in yesterday, and I've flipped through it somewhat
>as of this moment. I'll need to do a more in-depth examination of it
>in order to more effectively critique it.

Wait...the post you just sent wasn't your in-depth
examination? LOL--I'm in trouble.

>But here's some initial feedback, and remember... you asked for it!

Very true! And I welcome it.

>And, please, don't think I'm being mean, because your book is a most
>welcome addition to my library.

Thank you--much appreciated.

>I don't mind that you included all the POTA comics, the unfilmed
>scripts, etc etc.

I'm glad you don't mind. <grin>

>But it might have been better -- from an
>organizational standpoint -- to have done a 1st section where the
>events of the 5-film series is put in order. Then do a 2nd section
>dealing with the TV series. Then a 3rd section for the cartoon. Then
>a 4th section for the MARVEL stories (maybe even 3 or 4, if you treat
>TERROR, Future History Chronicles, KINGDOM on an ISLAND, and
>EVOLUTION'S NIGHTMARE as separate POTA entities). Then a 5th section
>for the ADVENTURE comics, etc etc. And a whole separate section for
>the Burton film.

Yes, but that would have been contrary to what the very premise of my
book is all about, as stated in the intro--not to address the
"circular vs. changing" debtate about single or multiple timelines,
or to deal with canonicity, but rather to show when each event is
said to take place in relation to everything else, for readers to
pick and choose from. I purposely didn't separate them into
different sections.

>By putting ALL these disparate POTA projects in the same bin, it
>becomes -- at times -- uh, I don't know how to say this. Off-putting?
>It's like a smorgasbord of info all mixed together... some of the
>foods being to my liking and some being unpalatable.

That's the nature of the book.

>You know how there's an "official" STAR TREK chronology, which
>includes as 'canon' only the 5 series (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT) and
>the movies, but NOT the Animated Series or the various comics and
>novels and fanfics etc etc?

True, though that has changed over the years. The animated series
was out...then it was in...then it was out again. And some of the
books are treated as canon by those who created Voyager, and by those
writing the new movie. It's not so clear-cut.

>Imagine if somebody -- I'm sure he's out
>there SOMEwhere in Internetland -- were to include ALL the info that
>has ever been produced in STAR TREK fiction... not only the
>filmed "official" products, but EVERYTHING. All in some kind of
>chronological order.

Actually, I think that'd be an amazing read, and I'd buy it in a minute.

>I think your book would've been better as TIMELINES -- plural -- OF
>THE PLANET OF THE APES. Give each group its own chronology: the
>Films, the TV show, the Cartoon, the MARVEL stuff, etc etc. Not all-
>together, but separately.

I respect your opinion, of course--but that would have completely
changed the premise of what I was doing.

>Your preference for the spelling provided in the subtitles is,
>I think, faulty. I do like how you point out where each rival
>spelling comes from, though, so kudos to you on that!

Thanks. It was a lot of work, but worth it, I think.

>Incidentally, on page 49 you refer to the scene above with the
>line: "A pair of handlers escorts an ape named Aldo to the Civic
>Center." A nitpicker regarding the details (like me) might wonder why
>you didn't specify that the ape was a Chimpanzee, rather than a
>gorilla. Since you ARE a stickler for detail, and you often point out
>differing details from script-to-screen-to-novelization (etc), I
>wonder why you glossed this one over.

Oddly, I didn't overlook that...it's there in my .DOC version of the
text...but it's not in the printed version, as you point out. So I'm
not sure at what point it was removed. Hmmm.

>The DVD subtitler calls the ape "Otto": why didn't you prefer that
>spelling to "Aldo" in this case, when you often do so for other
>names, opting for the DVD subtitle version?

No particular reason.

>Landon. On page 4, you state that Landon is born "c. LATE 1930s TO
>EARLY 1940s" and you "NOTE: Landon... [his] age is unspecified" etc.
>If you had seen my chronology article in APESFAN #2, you might have
>changed this entry. Remember how Taylor sees the EARTH-TIME date of
>11-25-3978 just before the ship sinks? After the trio gets that raft
>to its beach-site, Taylor then goes on to tell Landon, "... you look
>pretty chipper for a man who's TWO THOUSAND THIRTY-ONE YEARS OLD. I
>read the clocks -- they bear out Hasslein's Hypothesis."

I know there was a reason for my not using the 2031-year
figure...but...well....after a year of working on the book, I no
longer recall what it was.

> From the evidence at hand, the completion of their 6th month of
>SHIP-TIME could be either on July 14th or, just possibly, shortly
>after Midnight when July 15th of 1972 begins.

I guess that one's a goof.

>One last item: the dating of BATTLE. On page 77 you have a long
>paragraph [the NOTE] in which you point out the various and varying
>dates that other chronologies give. MARVEL & Dayton Ward say 2001.
>The 35th Anniv. Ed. says 2018. The Blu-Ray set says June 2004. The
>novelization says 2000. You opt for the year 2020 based on the story
>given in MARVEL #22, adding the "27 years" to the date of that
>original between-the-movies story (1993).

Yes.

>This is an instance where your "timeline" is ill-served by lumping
>all the POTA stuff into one long narrative,

And, in fact, I knew that would be a sticking point for some
fans...especially you. <grin>

>rather than a series of
>competing "timelines" (i.e. the Films, the TV show, the Cartoon, the
>Marvel stuff, etc etc). As far as I'm concerned, the Marvel story you
>rely on -- as entertaining as it may be -- isn't and cannot be part
>of the canon.

Canonicity is not an issue in this book, and is specifically stated
as such in the intro.

>Sorry to say, Moench had a brain-fart when he was plotting out
>that in-betweener story.

I respect your interpretation of events.

>On the day (night) when Caesar sneaks into the orangutan cage headed
>for APE MANAGEMENT, we hear an employee there refer to two specific
>shipments which are arriving then-and-there:
>Shipment FIVE-OH-SEVEN I-for-Indonesia ex Borneo
>Shipment FIVE-OH-NINE A-for-Africa ex French Camaroons
>What do "Five-Oh-Seven" and "Five-Oh-Nine" probably stand for? How
>about May 7th and May 9th? In other words, a SHIP travelled to Borneo
>and picked up a load of orangutans on MAY 7, 1991. Either THAT ship
>or some OTHER ship travelled to French Camaroons and picked up a load
>of African apes (either chimps or gorillas) on MAY 9, 1991.

Well, that's one possible interpretation, sure.

>Unless you can come up with a more plausible explanation for
>the "FIVE-OH-SEVEN" and "FIVE-OH-NINE" bits of dialogue

Those are never said to be dates, so I don't see a reason to explain them.

>Again, regardless of what the Marvel chronologists may have
>thought... or the Blu-Ray guys... or any-whozis... what matters for
>canonicity (IMHO) is what is on-screen.

Yes, but as I've said, this book is specifically not about
canonicity, so the debate is moot.

>Notwithstanding, though, I still dig your book, Rich, and I'm glad to
>have it in my collection.

Thanks, man.

>Much of the info in it is useful to me,
>though much of it -- being from non-canon comics and unfilmed scripts
>(etc etc) -- is stuff I'll just be glossing over.

I knew that of all people, you'd probably have the biggest list of
disagreements with it, given your....well, I hope you'll take this in
the congenial way it's intended...obsessive approach to POTA
timelining, so I'm glad you're still able to enjoy it.

>I'll leave it at that for now, Rich. They say that PAYback is a
>bitch... Now YOU'LL probably think that FEEDback is a son-of-a-bitch!

Not at all--I enjoyed skimming through your comments.

>But, please, accept my critiques with goodwill. I'm not trying to
>beat up on ya.

I completely understand that! Feel free to lambaste me--er, debate
me more. :)

.html

In a message dated 12/18/08 2:33:08 PM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

How about the piling up of bodies?  That's FREAKY!

*** Like I said, it's cool to see this footage from CONQUEST, I'm not saying anything otherwise... But look at PLANET, piles of corpses aplenty, so piles of dead in an APES film isn't really anything new except we get to see them being tossed together in CONQUEST. ***

<.html

Michael (or is it Santa?), I would love a copy!

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael & Sally Whitty"
<sallywhitty@...> wrote:

>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Seen CONQUEST UNRATED yet?
>
>
>
> Thanks to my buddy for sending it.
>
>
>
> Anyone need a copy?
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf Of

> mlccougar@...
> Sent: Thursday, 18 December 2008 6:15 PM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] King Wrong
>
>
>
> **** Like I said, I never seen the new Mighty Joe Young, but you

have...

> Regarding MJY, would you say the new one or the original one is

better? ****

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/18/08 1:35:56 AM Central Standard Time,

TZer0@...

> writes:
>
> To me it was like the remake of Journey To The Center Of The Earth.

No

> improvement. In fact quite the reverse. I found myself checking

my watch

> after they hadn't been trampled by dinosaurs, hoping they would.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail,

and Yahoo

> Mail. Try
> <http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-

dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000

> 025> it now.
>

That's all got to happen in the space of 8 years though.
It really would have been better if Conquest had portrayed Caesar as a
descendant (great-grandson, etc) of Cornelius and Zira at some
unspecified time in the future, I wonder if that might be an angle the
writer of the new movie is considering (if he HAS to write a movie
about Caesar).

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
<patrickmichaeltilton@...> wrote:

>
>In my scenario, after the Plague kills off the Dogs and Cats, Man
> replaced their lost pets with many kinds of animals. First, with
> critters like marmosets, rabbits, hamsters, gerbils [heyyy... no
> Richard Gere jokes, you monkeys!], etc etc. Then small monkeys like
> capuchins, howlers... then small apes like gibbons. Then INFANT apes
> (chimp, gorilla, orang).
>
> It was only when they ran out of BABY apes that they had to resort to
> importing ADULT apes...

.html <.html

The new film will not be a continuation of the original films--it'll
be a new entity.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "nlmoxham" <neilmoxham@...> wrote:
> That's all got to happen in the space of 8 years though.
> It really would have been better if Conquest had portrayed Caesar as a
> descendant (great-grandson, etc) of Cornelius and Zira at some
> unspecified time in the future, I wonder if that might be an angle the
> writer of the new movie is considering (if he HAS to write a movie
> about Caesar).
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
> <patrickmichaeltilton@> wrote:
> >
> >In my scenario, after the Plague kills off the Dogs and Cats, Man
> > replaced their lost pets with many kinds of animals. First, with
> > critters like marmosets, rabbits, hamsters, gerbils [heyyy... no
> > Richard Gere jokes, you monkeys!], etc etc. Then small monkeys like
> > capuchins, howlers... then small apes like gibbons. Then INFANT apes
> > (chimp, gorilla, orang).
> >
> > It was only when they ran out of BABY apes that they had to resort to
> > importing ADULT apes...
>

> I know there was a reason for my not using the 2031-year
> figure...but...well....after a year of working on the book, I no
> longer recall what it was.

Perhaps it was the fact that the actor playing Landon is clearly older
than 25 years?

Hunter

Yes, yes, so you say! :-)
BUT - why call it 'Caesar'? That's purely a 'classic' POTA reference,
and not even one of the names that would be most associated with POTA
by the general public (such as 'Cornelius', 'Zaius', 'Galen', etc).
Attaching that name to it right from the start suggests to me that;
1. they're using 'Conquest' (or the ideas of Conquest) as a starting
point for the new movie; and 2. they would like it to get the
acceptance of sci-fi/POTA fans that the Burton movie never got (I
felt from those recent FOX TV presentations that they're very aware
they made a big mistake with that movie).
I fully accept it can't be a continuation of classic POTA as too much
time has passed and it would lack continuity in terms of visuals (and
actors), but it might at least try not to contradict anything from
the original movies. I think it's a big mistake to set it in 2009,
for example, if it does try to reference the other movies.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "rassmguy" <handleyr@...> wrote:
>
> The new film will not be a continuation of the original films--it'll
> be a new entity.
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "nlmoxham" <neilmoxham@> wrote:
> > That's all got to happen in the space of 8 years though.
> > It really would have been better if Conquest had portrayed Caesar
as a
> > descendant (great-grandson, etc) of Cornelius and Zira at some
> > unspecified time in the future, I wonder if that might be an
angle the
> > writer of the new movie is considering (if he HAS to write a
movie
> > about Caesar).
> >
> > --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "patrickmichaeltilton"
> > <patrickmichaeltilton@> wrote:
> > >
> > >In my scenario, after the Plague kills off the Dogs and Cats,
Man
> > > replaced their lost pets with many kinds of animals. First,
with
> > > critters like marmosets, rabbits, hamsters, gerbils [heyyy...
no
> > > Richard Gere jokes, you monkeys!], etc etc. Then small monkeys
like
> > > capuchins, howlers... then small apes like gibbons. Then INFANT
apes
> > > (chimp, gorilla, orang).
> > >
> > > It was only when they ran out of BABY apes that they had to
resort to
> > > importing ADULT apes...
> >
>

>Posted by: "Hunter Goatley" goathunter@... huntergoatley
> > I know there was a reason for my not using the 2031-year
> > figure...but...well....after a year of working on the book, I no
> > longer recall what it was.
>Perhaps it was the fact that the actor playing Landon is clearly older
>than 25 years?

That was definitely part of it, yes. :)

>Posted by: "Graham Hill" shop@... hill19652000
>...well Neil's done another holiday picture for the home page, so as
>I've not had time to do a X-mas card this year, have a couple of
>"Virtual" comics on me

Nice!

I think it's much more likely that Taylor was using Landon's physical
age (31) and adding a rounded out figure of '2000 years' for dramatic
effect. He goes on to say "We've been away from Earth for 2,000
years...give or take a decade", as if he's not really sure the clocks
were accurate. Perhaps he guessed (correctly?) that the clocks were
damaged by the crash? If Landon was 30/31 when they launched that
would put his birth year around 1941. I'm just not convinced Taylor
would've made a note of Landon's birthday in his diary!


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Tilton
<patrickmichaeltilton@...> wrote:

>
> Remember how Taylor sees the EARTH-TIME date of
> 11-25-3978 just before the ship sinks? After the trio gets that

raft

> to its beach-site, Taylor then goes on to tell Landon, "... you

look

> pretty chipper for a man who's TWO THOUSAND THIRTY-ONE YEARS OLD. I
> read the clocks -- they bear out Hasslein's Hypothesis."
>
> Taylor "read the clocks" -- even though we only see ONE of the two
> clocks at that moment, the EARTH-TIME clock, reading 11-25-3978. If
> you subtract 2,031 years from that date you get the year 1947. It
> seems to me that Taylor must've known Landon's birth year (1947)

and

> he merely subtracted 1,947 from 3,978 to get 2,031 years as

his "age"

> since his birth. In SHIP-TIME terms, Landon is 25 years (or so)

plus

> 18 months old -- what the original script called "SELF-TIME". Born

in

> 1947, he would've been 25 years old in 1972, when their ship

launched

> from Cape Kennedy .

The calendar look great, well done to all involved!
The newspaper page made me think though - aren't Zaius and Urko
confused by the photograph they find in Virdon's possesion? They must
surely have seen photos in at least some of the books in Zaius' study.
And even if you subscribe to the two-timelines idea, these events
happen prior to the apes using flash photography after hunting Taylor
and friends, how can that be reconciled? Not to mention that the camera
surely couldn't be working after 2000 years, an ape must have built it
(or invented it). And did Taylor run past a dark-room or photo kiosk on
his dash for freedom? I don't think so!

.html <.html

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com , "nlmoxham" <neilmoxham@...> wrote:

> Yes, yes, so you say! :-)

Heh heh--sorry about that. For some reason, when I looked at your
e-mail address on your previous message, I misread it and thought you
were a new poster to the group, so I was just providing an answer,
thinking you didn't know. That'll teach me to read more carefully
before responding. :)

> BUT - why call it 'Caesar'? That's purely a 'classic'
> POTA reference, and not even one of the names that
> would be most associated with POTA by the general
> public (such as 'Cornelius', 'Zaius', 'Galen', etc).

An excellent point. Hmmm. That does give me pause, actually.

> Attaching that name to it right from the start suggests to me that;
> 1. they're using 'Conquest' (or the ideas of Conquest) as a starting
> point for the new movie; and 2. they would like it to get the
> acceptance of sci-fi/POTA fans that the Burton movie never got (I
> felt from those recent FOX TV presentations that they're very aware
> they made a big mistake with that movie).

So did I.

> I fully accept it can't be a continuation of classic POTA as too much
> time has passed and it would lack continuity in terms of visuals (and
> actors), but it might at least try not to contradict anything from
> the original movies. I think it's a big mistake to set it in 2009,
> for example, if it does try to reference the other movies.

Yeah, that seems the biggest stumbling block--2009, at this point,
would be a very un-pretty picture world in the original movies' timeline.

I agree. Landon being 25 at the time of POTA, in my opinion, is
taking Taylor's "2031" statement a bit too literally.

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "nlmoxham" <neilmoxham@...> wrote:
> I think it's much more likely that Taylor was using Landon's physical
> age (31) and adding a rounded out figure of '2000 years' for dramatic
> effect. He goes on to say "We've been away from Earth for 2,000
> years...give or take a decade", as if he's not really sure the clocks
> were accurate. Perhaps he guessed (correctly?) that the clocks were
> damaged by the crash? If Landon was 30/31 when they launched that
> would put his birth year around 1941. I'm just not convinced Taylor
> would've made a note of Landon's birthday in his diary!
>
>
> --- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Tilton
> <patrickmichaeltilton@> wrote:
> >
> > Remember how Taylor sees the EARTH-TIME date of
> > 11-25-3978 just before the ship sinks? After the trio gets that
> raft
> > to its beach-site, Taylor then goes on to tell Landon, "... you
> look
> > pretty chipper for a man who's TWO THOUSAND THIRTY-ONE YEARS OLD. I
> > read the clocks -- they bear out Hasslein's Hypothesis."
> >
> > Taylor "read the clocks" -- even though we only see ONE of the two
> > clocks at that moment, the EARTH-TIME clock, reading 11-25-3978. If
> > you subtract 2,031 years from that date you get the year 1947. It
> > seems to me that Taylor must've known Landon's birth year (1947)
> and
> > he merely subtracted 1,947 from 3,978 to get 2,031 years as
> his "age"
> > since his birth. In SHIP-TIME terms, Landon is 25 years (or so)
> plus
> > 18 months old -- what the original script called "SELF-TIME". Born
> in
> > 1947, he would've been 25 years old in 1972, when their ship
> launched
> > from Cape Kennedy .
>

.html

In a message dated 12/19/08 4:25:26 AM Central Standard Time, neilmoxham@... writes:

It really would have been better if Conquest had portrayed Caesar as a descendant (great-grandson, etc.) of Cornelius and Zira at some unspecified time in the future

*** I've been saying that for years now... The idea that their son/apes would be able to pull off an overthrow revolution in one generation is fuc*ed up... They only went with using their son for a quick continuity fix, figuring people need to see characters from the previous film to "get it" and to keep the storyline going....

 

I am a definite fan of the first timeline's revolt story, where they were enslaved for CENTURIES before being able to even attempt revolting... The idea that they pulled it off in less than a decade is just stupid... ***

<.html

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In a message dated 12/19/08 8:47:55 AM Central Standard Time, neilmoxham@... writes:

BUT - why call it 'Caesar'?

*** For a cheap idea to drag APES fan to see it... They're going with an APES reference so they can, in your words (though I'm ure you meant something else): " 2. they would like it to get the acceptance of sci-fi/POTA fans that the Burton movie never got." They're going to use anything they can to try sucking people in and the use of that name is one of their attempts at drawing people in. 

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/19/08 9:29:13 AM Central Standard Time, neilmoxham@... writes:

I think it's much more likely that Taylor was using Landon's physical
age (31) and adding a rounded out figure of '2000 years' for dramatic
effect.

*** EXACTLY!***

<.html

.html <.html

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<.html

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In a message dated 12/19/08 5:24:18 PM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

Dunno – they may have seen that the slapstick way they did it was VERY wrong.

*** Highly unlikely... They will never admit they fuc*ed up, not totally... I mean who in the hell decides to make a film based on a release date they decided on? FOX did, and I do NOT doubt that they'd do it all over again...

 

Sure, they occasionally say that some people were disappointed with the pota2001 film, but then they turn around and justify their fu*k up by saying "It did take in over X amount of dollars" (I don't recall their figure). All they seen then, now, and in the future are $$$ signs... If you or anyone else thinks they're going to try making a film that will bring in new followers and appeal to fans of the original films, you're sadly mistaken... They're a business and understandably out to make a profit...  Making an artistically satisfying film is secondary to them, money is their number one reason. ***

<.html

> *** Highly unlikely... They will never admit they fuc*ed up, not totally...
> I mean who in the hell decides to make a film based on a release date they
> decided on?

Most studios. The release date for the sequel to TWILIGHT was set
before they had a director or, according to the last thing I saw, a
final script. They've already started preproduction without a final
script, just so they meet the release date (late November 2009).

Hunter

.html <.html

.html <.html

> Maybe not telepathy - maybe he just laid the word on a bunch of apes and got
> them to pass it on?

As I've said before, I think the telepathy thing is imagined. The
other apes can just sense that Caesar is different---note how
every time Caesar passes other apes, they stop and stare at him.

I noticed something yesterday I had noticed before. When MacDonald
and Caesar leave Breck's office to go Ape Management, Caesar is
walking behind MacDonald---and walking upright like a man. Only when
the other apes take notice of this does Caesar hunch over and start
swinging his arms again. Because MacDonald is in front of him, he
doesn't see this.

More signs to the other apes that Caesar is different....

Hunter

You think that, as dogs have very keen instincts for sensing illnesses
in people, for example, the primitive apes might have these kind of
instincts, and that as they become more rational and learn to speak,
they learn to rely less on these instincts?

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, Hunter Goatley <goathunter@...> wrote:
>
> As I've said before, I think the telepathy thing is imagined. The
> other apes can just sense that Caesar is different---note how
> every time Caesar passes other apes, they stop and stare at him.
>
>
> Hunter
>

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.html
<.html

Oh never mind.
I forgot there's a movie called, twilight. :o)

Al


-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Ruiz <pota1968@...>
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 12:56 PM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Re: Caesar as a Telepath

New Apes movie, November 2009?
Where did you hear this from, Hunter?

Al

.html

In a message dated 12/20/08 6:55:52 AM Central Standard Time, goathunter@... writes:

The release date for the sequel to TWILIGHT was set
before they had a director or, according to the last thing I saw, a
final script.  They've already started preproduction without a final
script, just so they meet the release date (late November 2009).

That's just messed up.

<.html

Hi, folks,

A fellow Apes fan named Kevin Law just sent me a great shot of the
complete POTA
Chad Valley Picture Show set, which I've uploaded for you all to see:

http://rhandley.0catch.com/POTA/images/chad_valley_planet_apes_75.jpg

This is the best condition I have yet to see one of these sets
in. Much to my frustration,
he sent it to me AFTER we my book came out--I would have loved to
have used this
shot instead of the one that we did use. We may swap it out for
future printings.

Rich

.html <.html

Absolutely--he's done excellent work on those.


--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "Michael & Sally Whitty"
<sallywhitty@...> wrote:

>
> Thanks Rich
>
>
>
> Have you seen the restored slides Neil has been doing?
>
>
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On

Behalf Of

> Rich Handley
> Sent: Sunday, 21 December 2008 9:08 AM
> To: Recipient list suppressed:
> Subject: [PotaDG] Chad Valley Picture Strips
>
>
>
> Hi, folks,
>
> A fellow Apes fan named Kevin Law just sent me a great shot of the
> complete POTA
> Chad Valley Picture Show set, which I've uploaded for you all to see:
>
> http://rhandley.
> <http://rhandley.0catch.com/POTA/images/chad_valley_planet_apes_75.jpg>
> 0catch.com/POTA/images/chad_valley_planet_apes_75.jpg
>
> This is the best condition I have yet to see one of these sets
> in. Much to my frustration,
> he sent it to me AFTER we my book came out--I would have loved to
> have used this
> shot instead of the one that we did use. We may swap it out for
> future printings.
>
> Rich
>

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<.html

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Kim's Makeup Man passed away.

 

Hollywood Makeup and Hair stylists union, Local 706, loses three outstanding artists

<.html

.html <.html

The Belcourt in Nashville will be showing a new 35mm print of "Planet
of the Apes" Saturday through Monday, February 7 through 9.

http://www.belcourt.org/events?id=61138

--------------------------------------------------
PLANET OF THE APES (1968) Sat.-Mon., Feb. 7-9

In this, the first in the APES saga, Hestons stone-chiseled features
and bare chest bring us the movie that was to create an empire. After
an accident in space, astronaut George Taylor (Heston) finds that he
has crash-landed on a strange planet where humans are subservient to
the Ape-Lords of the world. Finding himself less than welcomed, Taylor
endures trials and tortures from the highly intelligent simians,
forcing him to utter the first words ever spoken by a human to the
apes, keep your hands off me you damn dirty apes! Taylor desperately
tries to regain his freedom and get off of the God-forsaken planet,
only to discover that this foreign land may not be as distant as he
suspected. Dir Franklin J. Schaffer, 1959, USA, 112 min. New 35mm
print courtesy of Criterion Pictures.
--------------------------------------------------

Woohoo! I'm finally going to get to see PotA in a theater!

Hunter

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Thanks to Tim Parati, I've added a slew of photos of his Apes
collection to my Apes site. These are the same photos used in the
bonus features on the new Blu-ray Apes set. Lots of great photos of
lots of cool stuff.

Also thanks to Jeff (RedSpy), I've added a brief magazine news article
about the Power Records release to the PR page on my Apes site.

https://pota.goatley.com/

Hunter

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<.html

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Is this real?

 

 

 

In a message dated 12/21/2008 10:47:27 P.M. Central Standard Time, mlccougar@... writes:

---

One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/21/08 11:29:20 PM Central Standard Time, TZer0@... writes:

Is this real?

*** To answer you and Whitty, I'm trying to find that out right now... ***

<.html

.html

In a message dated 12/21/08 11:08:23 PM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

So what are these and where are they from

*** This is what I was told: They are more teaser shots from Hot Toys and that these are the most up to date shots of them. ***

 

 

 

<.html

.html <.html

AN Ursus and two Gorilla Soldiers are announced....looking pretty damn good...

and of course, as I feared, some cutesy baby versions of main characters....

http://www.hottoys.com.hk/product.php?cat=74

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----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: POTA ; POTA DG

Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 6:47 AM

Subject: [PotaDG] Hot Toys figures

AN Ursus and two Gorilla Soldiers are announced... .looking pretty damn good...

and of course, as I feared, some cutesy baby versions of main characters.. ..

http://www.hottoys. com.hk/product. php?cat=74

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I got your book, Rich, and I'll be studying it over the Christmas
holidays - it looks great! On first impressions I'm really impressed
with the amount of research you've put into this - as an example, the
Burton-era novels that were publicised but never published (not
everyone's cup of tea, I know) - you've managed to get the plot
outlines. Likewise for story outlines for Marvel's 'Derek Zane' stories
and Adventure Comics. I think this is going to prove to be an essential
point of reference for any future projects. On Patrick's point about
running all the timelines together - I understand his point, but it's
also true that the individual stories tend to be separated out
naturally anyway, because they each happen in their own specific period
of the timeline. Anyway, very well done on what must have been an
exhausting project, if I find any problems I'll tell you!

Thanks, Neil! Yeah, a lot of research went into the book, but it was
fun and worth the effort. I managed to track down unpublished story
outlines (and, in some cases, the stories themselves) for a number of
unpublished works from Marvel, Adventure, Dark Horse and Mr. Comics,
as well as the unpublished Burton-era novels you mentioned, and
breakdowns of each are included in the book.

These were obtained through interviews with the writers of those tales
(Doug Moench, Charles Marshall, Mike Valerio, Lowell Cunninghan,
Roland Mann, Ty Templeton, Ian Edginton, Dan Abnett, Jorge Morhain,
and others). The interviews also became the fodder for a detailed
article in the current issue of Simian Scrolls.

Anyway, I'm glad you're enjoying the book. I've now begun work on a
second Apes-related project, which I'll tell ya'll about when the time
is right. :)

--- In PotaDG@yahoogroups.com, "nlmoxham" <neilmoxham@...> wrote:
> I got your book, Rich, and I'll be studying it over the Christmas
> holidays - it looks great! On first impressions I'm really impressed
> with the amount of research you've put into this - as an example, the
> Burton-era novels that were publicised but never published (not
> everyone's cup of tea, I know) - you've managed to get the plot
> outlines. Likewise for story outlines for Marvel's 'Derek Zane' stories
> and Adventure Comics. I think this is going to prove to be an essential
> point of reference for any future projects. On Patrick's point about
> running all the timelines together - I understand his point, but it's
> also true that the individual stories tend to be separated out
> naturally anyway, because they each happen in their own specific period
> of the timeline. Anyway, very well done on what must have been an
> exhausting project, if I find any problems I'll tell you!
>

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In a message dated 12/22/08 8:53:47 AM Central Standard Time, sallywhitty@... writes:

Hey – I thought it was only the TV Show gorillas that had the "M" pattern on the vest?

* The TV series apes are the only apes with stripes on their outfits... Just like the picture I sent last night. *

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*** After looking at these close-up shots, I was more impressed with the "small" picture I posted last night, I didn't see the fake hair on those... Only Ursus looks good to me now, and that's only cause of his helmet covering the hair... I am NOT a fan of faux hair on figures like that, it never looks right, and on these guys it looks awful...

 

BTW: It looks like the one called "Gorilla Soldier" must be a take off of The Hunt Leader because of the hieroglyphics on the bandolier... ***

 

 

 

In a message dated 12/22/08 8:48:09 AM Central Standard Time, apefan23@... writes:

AN Ursus and two Gorilla Soldiers are announced....looking pretty damn good...

and of course, as I feared, some cutesy baby versions of main characters....

http://www.hottoys.com.hk/product.php?cat=74

 

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-----Original Message-----
From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mlccougar@...
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:42 AM
To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Hot Toys figures

*** After looking at these close-up shots, I was more impressed with the "small" picture I posted last night, I didn't see the fake hair on those... Only Ursus looks good to me now, and that's only cause of his helmet covering the hair... I am NOT a fan of faux hair on figures like that, it never looks right, and on these guys it looks awful...

 

BTW: It looks like the one called "Gorilla Soldier" must be a take off of The Hunt Leader because of the hieroglyphics on the bandolier... ***

 

 

 

In a message dated 12/22/08 8:48:09 AM Central Standard Time, apefan23@yahoo. com writes:

AN Ursus and two Gorilla Soldiers are announced... .looking pretty damn good...

and of course, as I feared, some cutesy baby versions of main characters.. ..

http://www.hottoys. com.hk/product. php?cat=74

 

---

One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.

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I don't mind the "real" hair but the soldier with the flag's hair looks kinda funny matted to his forehead....

--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Neil Foster <ntfoster@...> wrote:

> From: Neil Foster <ntfoster@...>
> Subject: RE: [PotaDG] Hot Toys figures
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 5:28 PM
> I think they look fantastic myself even though the
> 'gorilla captain' is
> strange, being a mix of films & TV show. Nice that they
> went with the
> old 'of the' in the Planet of the Apes logo.
>
> Neil
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> [PotaDG@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of mlccougar@...
> Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 7:42 AM
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Hot Toys figures
>
>
>
>
>
> *** After looking at these close-up shots, I was more
> impressed with the
> "small" picture I posted last night, I didn't
> see the fake hair on
> those... Only Ursus looks good to me now, and that's
> only cause of his
> helmet covering the hair... I am NOT a fan of faux hair on
> figures like
> that, it never looks right, and on these guys it looks
> awful...
>
> BTW: It looks like the one called "Gorilla
> Soldier" must be a take off
> of The Hunt Leader because of the hieroglyphics on the
> bandolier... ***
>
>
>
> In a message dated 12/22/08 8:48:09 AM Central Standard
> Time,
> apefan23@... writes:
>
> AN Ursus and two Gorilla Soldiers are announced....looking
> pretty damn
> good...
>
> and of course, as I feared, some cutesy baby versions of
> main
> characters....
>
> http://www.hottoys.com.hk/product.php?cat=74
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
> Gmail, and
> Yahoo Mail. Try
> <http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0
> 0000025> it now.

Those are different ones....the Sideshows are "Premium Format figures"
Hot Toys is a whole separate line.....

--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Jeff <skintricks@...> wrote:

> From: Jeff <skintricks@...>
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Hot Toys figures
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 10:30 AM
> Sideshow has already announced that they will be carrying
> these.
> http://gt.sideshowtoy.com/cgi-bin/gt/nl_template_prev.htmlhtml,user=8ff2cb7d9788&control_id=95323&nl_template=2
>
> Jeff B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim "apefan"
> To: POTA ; POTA DG
> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 6:47 AM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Hot Toys figures
>
>
> AN Ursus and two Gorilla Soldiers are
> announced....looking pretty damn good...
>
> and of course, as I feared, some cutesy baby versions of
> main characters....
>
> http://www.hottoys.com.hk/product.php?cat=74

.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Tim "apefan"

To: PotaDG@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 7:58 PM

Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Hot Toys figures

Those are different ones....the Sideshows are "Premium Format figures"
Hot Toys is a whole separate line.....

--- On Mon, 12/22/08, Jeff <skintricks@cox. net> wrote:

> From: Jeff <skintricks@cox. net>
> Subject: Re: [PotaDG] Hot Toys figures
> To: PotaDG@yahoogroups. com
> Date: Monday, December 22, 2008, 10:30 AM
> Sideshow has already announced that they will be carrying
> these.
> http://gt.sideshowt oy.com/cgi- bin/gt/nl_ template_ prev.html.htmluser= 8ff2cb7d9788& control_id= 95323&nl_ template= 2
>
> Jeff B
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim "apefan"
> To: POTA ; POTA DG
> Sent: Monday, December 22, 2008 6:47 AM
> Subject: [PotaDG] Hot Toys figures
>
>
> AN Ursus and two Gorilla Soldiers are
> announced... .looking pretty damn good...
>
> and of course, as I feared, some cutesy baby versions of
> main characters.. ..
>
> http://www.hottoys. com.hk/product. php?cat=74

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